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View Full Version : Economics Well, Monday morning, 5-7 new jobs may be cut or delayed.


chris
03-21-2010, 10:28 PM
We were planning to hire 5-7 new developers in April for a big job in May. However, I have no clue what this bill will have on our immediate/future bottom line.

Questions that I will be asking the lawyer and accountant:

Question: When do we have to provide insurance for everyone? (right now they get a cash amount towards their insurance...for single people, its enough; for associates with families, they pay the difference.)

Question: What happens if we lay off everyone and rehire as 1099's? Am I still obligated for their insurance?

Question: Would we be better off sending the projects overseas rather than doing in USA? I refuse to do this, but if taxes/insurance goes up, I may have no choice.

I have a feeling millions of C-level and business owners will be asking these questions and more. In the mean time, hiring will be impacted or stop.

chiefforlife
03-21-2010, 10:32 PM
You cant be serious. Talk about a knee jerk reaction.

If you were really going to hire these people tomorrow, hire them.

If you were just throwing this out there to generate some drama, nice try.

Velvet_Jones
03-21-2010, 10:36 PM
You cant be serious. Talk about a knee jerk reaction.

If you were really going to hire these people tomorrow, hire them.

If you were just throwing this out there to generate some drama, nice try.

Is his industry the next to be taken over by the Federal government?

chris
03-21-2010, 10:39 PM
You cant be serious. Talk about a knee jerk reaction.

If you were really going to hire these people tomorrow, hire them.

If you were just throwing this out there to generate some drama, nice try.

NOW, read the post nice and slow. We have been planning to hire these folk for several months. Would I be better off to hire them as 1099's or other options? I want to know my options. Do you know what they are; or you just shooting off?

Is that so hard to understand? Would you like me to use smaller words and type slow? :)

Velvet_Jones
03-21-2010, 10:43 PM
NOW, read the post nice and slow. We have been planning to hire these folk for several months. Would I be better off to hire them as 1099's or other options? I want to know my options. Do you know what they are; or you just shooting off?

Is that so hard to understand? Would you like me to use smaller words and type slow? :)

Slow or not - he will still be confused. I'm betting he is a stupid college kid.

chiefforlife
03-21-2010, 10:44 PM
NOW, read the post nice and slow. We have been planning to hire these folk for several months. Would I be better off to hire them as 1099's or other options? I want to know my options. Do you know what they are; or you just shooting off?

Is that so hard to understand? Would you like me to use smaller words and type slow? :)

I dont know what the options are yet but I do know that it will be years before it will effect you. I know that putting off hiring someone tomorrow is a knee jerk reaction to a bill that we all dont seem to like. I am expanding my business right now and I wont let this stop me from going forward. Neither should you.

chiefforlife
03-21-2010, 10:45 PM
Slow or not - he will still be confused. I'm betting he is a stupid college kid.

Guess again. I'm guessing, you guess a lot.

petegz28
03-21-2010, 10:46 PM
I dont know what the options are yet but I do know that it will be years before it will effect you. I know that putting off hiring someone tomorrow is a knee jerk reaction to a bill that we all dont seem to like. I am expanding my business right now and I wont let this stop me from going forward. Neither should you.

Maybe this is new to you, but businesses take into account their future plans as they hire someone. And you don't know if it will be years. Which is why he holds off on hiring until he sees what is going on.

max sleeper
03-21-2010, 10:47 PM
We were planning to hire 5-7 new developers in April for a big job in May. However, I have no clue what this bill will have on our immediate/future bottom line.

Questions that I will be asking the lawyer and accountant:

Question: When do we have to provide insurance for everyone? (right now they get a cash amount towards their insurance...for single people, its enough; for associates with families, they pay the difference.)

Question: What happens if we lay off everyone and rehire as 1099's? Am I still obligated for their insurance?

Question: Would we be better off sending the projects overseas rather than doing in USA? I refuse to do this, but if taxes/insurance goes up, I may have no choice.

I have a feeling millions of C-level and business owners will be asking these questions and more. In the mean time, hiring will be impacted or stop.

ROFL Hire the people and stop being a drama queen!

petegz28
03-21-2010, 10:49 PM
ROFL Hire the people and stop being a drama queen!

Easy for you to say. Love how Libs always find it so easy to spend other people's money.

alnorth
03-21-2010, 10:51 PM
Question: What happens if we lay off everyone and rehire as 1099's? Am I still obligated for their insurance?

You had better be VERY careful with that. Clear this with your lawyer, then think about getting a second opinion before you start treating everyone as an independent contractor.

This used to be the popular thing to do and enforcement was a bit loose, but now this is one of the big things that the IRS is cracking down on mega-hard.

There are a lot of tests that have to be met before you can 1099 someone. For example, if they have to show up at a specific time or place, and if they have to follow directions from you on the fine details of what you want (ie your basically their "boss"), then they are an employee, not a contractor. There's a lot of other tests too aside from that.

chris
03-21-2010, 10:51 PM
I dont know what the options are yet but I do know that it will be years before it will effect you. I know that putting off hiring someone tomorrow is a knee jerk reaction to a bill that we all dont seem to like. I am expanding my business right now and I wont let this stop me from going forward. Neither should you.

I hope you are right. It makes sense that impact should be a ways out. But I will ask just to make sure. How expensive is this going to get?

Unless you are a one man band, you are responsible for these people. So you need to check for yourself.

orange
03-21-2010, 10:51 PM
Under the new law, businesses that hire anyone unemployed for at least 60 days would be exempt from paying the 6.2 percent Social Security payroll tax through December. Employers also would get an additional $1,000 credit if new workers remain on the job a full year. Taxpayers will have to reimburse Social Security for the lost revenue.


I guess you're going to pass on that, then?

chiefforlife
03-21-2010, 10:52 PM
Maybe this is new to you, but businesses take into account their future plans as they hire someone. And you don't know if it will be years. Which is why he holds off on hiring until he sees what is going on.

Maybe this is news to you. He stated they have a big project that they have been planning on hiring 5-7 people for months. That means this big project is dependent on hiring these 5-7 people. This health care bill is in its infant stages and to let it derail a big project at this point is not good business.

I understand wanting to know the options, we all do. My problem is letting it stall your plans for the immediate future.

chris
03-21-2010, 10:52 PM
You had better be VERY careful with that. Clear this with your lawyer, then think about getting a second opinion before you start treating everyone as an independent contractor.

This used to be the popular thing to do and enforcement was a bit loose, but now this is one of the big things that the IRS is cracking down on mega-hard.

There are a lot of tests that have to be met before you can 1099 someone. For example, if they have to show up at a specific time or place, and if they have to follow directions from you on the fine details of what you want, they are an employee, not a contractor. There's a lot of other tests too aside from that.

Yep, good advice. Thanks!

chris
03-21-2010, 10:55 PM
Under the new law, businesses that hire anyone unemployed for at least 60 days would be exempt from paying the 6.2 percent Social Security payroll tax through December. Employers also would get an additional $1,000 credit if new workers remain on the job a full year. Taxpayers will have to reimburse Social Security for the lost revenue.


I guess you're going to pass on that, then?

Not at all. Thanks for sharing. I will ask the accountant about that.

Define "unemployed"? ROFL

Velvet_Jones
03-21-2010, 10:57 PM
Slow or not - he will still be confused. I'm betting he is a stupid college kid.

Ok - then I will restate that I was wrong. You apparently are either too lazy or are unqualified to provide for your family. Which one is it?

chiefforlife
03-21-2010, 11:00 PM
Ok - then I will restate that I was wrong. You apparently are either too lazy or are unqualified to provide for your family. Which one is it?

Adults are trying to have a conversation here. Go in the other room, young man.

alnorth
03-21-2010, 11:00 PM
Yep, good advice. Thanks!

anyway, if after a lot of careful analysis and legal opinion, you get the go-ahead based on your intentions in this work relationship that they can be classified as an independent contractor:

In that hypothetical situation, hell yes you should 1099 them. There would be almost no downside for you, other than possibly the potential employee/contractor objecting and either wanting more money or refusing to work. In that situation its basically like you hiring a roofing company to repair some shingles. You arent paying their social security or FICA, your paying them for delivering on their work product according to a contract.

If they are smart (or you like them) they will want a bit more money to be a contractor than as an employee since they are responsible for all of the self-employment taxes and health care, but you'd probably still come out ahead. You'd just lose out a bit on the control over how they do the work, but thats not an issue if the lawyer says what your wanting to do is ok.

orange
03-21-2010, 11:03 PM
Not at all. Thanks for sharing. I will ask the accountant about that.

Define "unemployed"? ROFL

Here. You can get an idea:

http://www.adp.com/sem/hire-act/hire-tax.aspx?s_kwcid=TC|13132|jobs%20bill||S||4637704349

Includes a little calculator to see your savings.

petegz28
03-21-2010, 11:08 PM
Maybe this is news to you. He stated they have a big project that they have been planning on hiring 5-7 people for months. That means this big project is dependent on hiring these 5-7 people. This health care bill is in its infant stages and to let it derail a big project at this point is not good business.

I understand wanting to know the options, we all do. My problem is letting it stall your plans for the immediate future.

Well in the real world it does. In some cases, particularly larger companies it can cost more to fire someone than to hire them. So you have to that all these things into consideration. I am not saying he should or shouldn't hire them. I am just saying that it is not as simple as just saying "hire them".

ClevelandBronco
03-21-2010, 11:10 PM
We were planning to hire 5-7 new developers in April for a big job in May. However, I have no clue what this bill will have on our immediate/future bottom line.

Questions that I will be asking the lawyer and accountant:

Question: When do we have to provide insurance for everyone? (right now they get a cash amount towards their insurance...for single people, its enough; for associates with families, they pay the difference.)

Question: What happens if we lay off everyone and rehire as 1099's? Am I still obligated for their insurance?

Question: Would we be better off sending the projects overseas rather than doing in USA? I refuse to do this, but if taxes/insurance goes up, I may have no choice.

I have a feeling millions of C-level and business owners will be asking these questions and more. In the mean time, hiring will be impacted or stop.

If they're developer jobs, then you'd almost certainly be better off offshoring them no matter what.

Five to seven folks in the U.S. wouldn't be better off.

|Zach|
03-21-2010, 11:11 PM
Well in the real world it does. In some cases, particularly larger companies it can cost more to fire someone than to hire them. So you have to that all these things into consideration. I am not saying he should or shouldn't hire them. I am just saying that it is not as simple as just saying "hire them".

I would say most all cases.

Velvet_Jones
03-22-2010, 08:20 AM
Adults are trying to have a conversation here. Go in the other room, young man.

Dude, it has to be one of these two issues or you are bad at math. I guess I need to assume that you are bad at math.

Garcia Bronco
03-22-2010, 08:28 AM
We were planning to hire 5-7 new developers in April for a big job in May. However, I have no clue what this bill will have on our immediate/future bottom line.

Questions that I will be asking the lawyer and accountant:

Question: When do we have to provide insurance for everyone? (right now they get a cash amount towards their insurance...for single people, its enough; for associates with families, they pay the difference.)

Question: What happens if we lay off everyone and rehire as 1099's? Am I still obligated for their insurance?

Question: Would we be better off sending the projects overseas rather than doing in USA? I refuse to do this, but if taxes/insurance goes up, I may have no choice.

I have a feeling millions of C-level and business owners will be asking these questions and more. In the mean time, hiring will be impacted or stop.

We've had a conference call this morning and have frozen new hires because of it. Hopefully it will change shortly, but it has put a stop to things for the next month at least. I need the people.

Garcia Bronco
03-22-2010, 08:29 AM
NOW, read the post nice and slow. We have been planning to hire these folk for several months. Would I be better off to hire them as 1099's or other options? I want to know my options. Do you know what they are; or you just shooting off?

Is that so hard to understand? Would you like me to use smaller words and type slow? :)

Exactly. The impact has to be studied.

petegz28
03-22-2010, 10:25 AM
We've had a conference call this morning and have frozen new hires because of it. Hopefully it will change shortly, but it has put a stop to things for the next month at least. I need the people.

I'm sorry to hear that.

KC Dan
03-22-2010, 12:36 PM
I'm sorry to hear that.us too. I have three personnel reqs in and they froze me out as well

Iowanian
03-22-2010, 01:07 PM
How dare you take time to re-evaluate adding staff after a horde of potential govt changes, fees and regulations. I mean, how can you not listen to people with no financial interest in your decision...

Iowanian
03-22-2010, 01:08 PM
We've had a conference call this morning and have frozen new hires because of it. Hopefully it will change shortly, but it has put a stop to things for the next month at least. I need the people.

That can't be true....Orange, Zach, Direction, reaper and BigRedObama said this was hogwash.

King_Chief_Fan
03-22-2010, 01:09 PM
We were planning to hire 5-7 new developers in April for a big job in May. However, I have no clue what this bill will have on our immediate/future bottom line.

Questions that I will be asking the lawyer and accountant:

Question: When do we have to provide insurance for everyone? (right now they get a cash amount towards their insurance...for single people, its enough; for associates with families, they pay the difference.)

Question: What happens if we lay off everyone and rehire as 1099's? Am I still obligated for their insurance?

Question: Would we be better off sending the projects overseas rather than doing in USA? I refuse to do this, but if taxes/insurance goes up, I may have no choice.

I have a feeling millions of C-level and business owners will be asking these questions and more. In the mean time, hiring will be impacted or stop.

cancel any insurance paid by the company. You get $750 a head penalty. Way cheaper to take the penalty and let the government insure them.

orange
03-22-2010, 01:10 PM
That can't be true....Orange, Zach, Direction, reaper and BigRedObama said this was hogwash.

What are you predicting for the post-Obamacare unemployment surge?

vailpass
03-22-2010, 01:11 PM
I dont know what the options are yet but I do know that it will be years before it will effect you. I know that putting off hiring someone tomorrow is a knee jerk reaction to a bill that we all dont seem to like. I am expanding my business right now and I wont let this stop me from going forward. Neither should you.

What sort of business do you own? How many full time employees?

Iowanian
03-22-2010, 01:20 PM
What are you predicting for the post-Obamacare unemployment surge?

Until the final bill comes out of Dear Leader and the Senate, it's hard to tell, but I've got no problem predicting stagnation in job growth.

Hitting employers with this crap just as things are starting to turn for the better is a bad idea. period.



Since you obviously feel differently, why don't you predict the job growth surge because of this bill.

orange
03-22-2010, 01:23 PM
I've got no problem predicting stagnation in job growth.

How will we be able to tell?

Iowanian
03-22-2010, 01:26 PM
At least as well as Hoperah's guestimations for the past 2 years...

In this thread alone, Chris is saying he's holding back 5-7 jobs and Garcia said his company is putting a hiring freeze on, and I'm putting a hold on the job I was going to add in June.

I'd say that is a pretty decent sample set of what is happening.

chiefforlife
03-22-2010, 04:16 PM
What sort of business do you own? How many full time employees?

Automotive Repair shop, with 6 full time employees.

vailpass
03-22-2010, 04:31 PM
Automotive Repair shop, with 6 full time employees.

You are safe. For now.

Chief Henry
03-22-2010, 04:34 PM
cancel any insurance paid by the company. You get $750 a head penalty. Way cheaper to take the penalty and let the government insure them.

Spot on...if they don't like it, tell them to contact the white house. Obama's now the new insurance agent on record.

Iowanian
03-22-2010, 04:40 PM
You are safe. For now.

Other than the whole .9% additional federal payroll tax....that apparently doesn't count as raising taxes on anyone earning more than $200k, or unless as a business he's paying himself rent on the building his business is located, and add 3.8% to that...

vailpass
03-22-2010, 04:55 PM
Other than the whole .9% additional federal payroll tax....that apparently doesn't count as raising taxes on anyone earning more than $200k, or unless as a business he's paying himself rent on the building his business is located, and add 3.8% to that...

Yes, I was referring to the health insurance requirements. Dear Leader is all in favor of taxing the working small business owner as much as he is anyone else; obama will go down in history as the worst POTUS this country has ever seen.