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donkhater
03-22-2010, 08:01 AM
From Peter King's MMQB...

If I were an NFL team drafting high, I'd be very careful evaluating Eric Berry.

The Tennessee safety, obviously, is a rare prospect. But the history of safeties in terms of longevity and greatness at the top of the draft is very shaky.

The nature of the position is smallish people throwing themselves around like linebackers, and that doesn't lend itself to long careers. The three best safeties to be drafted in the past decade -- Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu and Bob Sanders -- have missed 78 games due to injury in their 21 combined NFL seasons.

Berry looks like a top-10 pick, but the team that takes him is going to be picking against history. Of the four top-10 safeties this decade, none has had franchise-player impact: Sean Taylor (Washington, fifth overall, 2004), Michael Huff (Oakland, seventh, 2006), Donte Whitner (Buffalo, eighth, 2006), LaRon Landry (Washington, sixth, 2007). Taylor might have had franchise-player impact if he had not been gunned down three-and-a-half years into his career. But overall, the position justifies the caution lots of teams are taking with it.

Atlanta GM Thomas Dimitroff calls the safety-at-the-top-of-the-draft debate a conundrum. "It's been on my mind a lot lately," he said, "and I realize I'm speaking out of both sides of my mouth here, but Berry's a really good player. It's been on my mind quite a bit recently. You want the good hitter with hip movement, able to turn and run, but then reality sets in. I was talking to [Kansas City GM] Scott Pioli about Berry, and I said, 'Scott, this guy's your pick.' And he said, 'You know how I feel about safeties that early.' And I understand.''
I'm not saying Berry won't be a great player. Maybe he'll be Ed Reed. Maybe he'll know when to dish out the big hit and when to steer a player instead of seek and destroy. But the odds of him being great for a long time -- as opposed to the physical longevity of a tackle or defensive lineman or quarterback not subject to as many high-speed collisions -- are pretty long, based on history.

the Talking Can
03-22-2010, 08:12 AM
yeah, we should only draft guys with long mediocre career prospects..

DeezNutz
03-22-2010, 08:13 AM
I want only second-team All-SEC players in the top 5.

Marco Polo
03-22-2010, 08:20 AM
I'm accepting the fact that we are going with some kind of offensive/defensive lineman with #5, whether it be Okung, Bulaga, Suh, or McCoy. If we aren't going to draft Berry, I would rather we just trade down. We have so many holes to fill and if Berry isn't a possibility, I'd rather have multiple high round picks than either of those four.

SNR
03-22-2010, 08:20 AM
Smoke fucking screen. I have no proof of this, but jesus christ... Scott Pioli can't be THIS fucking stupid.

DeezNutz
03-22-2010, 08:23 AM
Smoke ****ing screen. I have no proof of this, but jesus christ... Scott Pioli can't be THIS ****ing stupid.

You're not a Royals fan, are you?

Me, '08: "Dayton Moore (extremely hyped executive) can't be THIS fucking stupid, right?"
Me, '09: "Yes."

DumbHillbillies
03-22-2010, 08:23 AM
Smoke ****ing screen. I have no proof of this, but jesus christ... Scott Pioli can't be THIS ****ing stupid.

Thought about this but why would another team's gm be sending smoke screens for our gm even if they are buddies. I don't think we draft berry, most likely LOT

nychief
03-22-2010, 08:25 AM
I'm accepting the fact that we are going with some kind of offensive/defensive lineman with #5, whether it be Okung, Bulaga, Suh, or McCoy. If we aren't going to draft Berry, I would rather we just trade down. We have so many holes to fill and if Berry isn't a possibility, I'd rather have multiple high round picks than either of those four.

you'd rather have Berry than Suh?

ForeverChiefs58
03-22-2010, 08:27 AM
Smoke fucking screen. I have no proof of this, but jesus christ... Scott Pioli can't be THIS fucking stupid.



Did you watch the draft last year?

Woodrow Call
03-22-2010, 08:27 AM
Well I honestly don't think they'll take an OT either so that leaves Dan Willliams, Haden, or reach for a rush backer. I would think McClain/Weatherspoon would be out as well, since you really can't use positional value as an argument and then turn around and take an ILB.

Amazes me that they would pass on Berry with such a need at safety.

Chiefs=Good
03-22-2010, 08:29 AM
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Chiefnj2
03-22-2010, 08:30 AM
Dez Bryant.

Sfeihc
03-22-2010, 08:31 AM
Bulaga time!

Chiefs=Good
03-22-2010, 08:32 AM
Dez Bryant.

http://www.free-horror-movies.com/pics/ScannersExplodingHead.gif

DumbHillbillies
03-22-2010, 08:33 AM
Did you watch the draft last year?

ROFL

PhillyChiefFan
03-22-2010, 08:35 AM
you'd rather have Berry than Suh?

Suh is a 4-3 DT though.

Dorsey was a highly touted 4-3 DT also. IMO we have too many holes to fill to take a chance on a player that MAY not fit our defense.

We already have a converted DT as a 34 DE, a stopgap (if you can even call him that) at NT, and a reach of a DE on the other side of the line in Jackson.

Not to mention a converted DE at OLB in Hali.

Suh is a great player and I believe will be a monster, but I personally wouldn't want to basically put a round peg in a square hole, especially considering that we have been doing that on the DL for the past 2 years now.

Garcia Bronco
03-22-2010, 08:35 AM
I would love to see you guys pick a saftey that high.

DeezNutz
03-22-2010, 08:36 AM
Dez Bryant.

At least one could rationalize the Dez "White" selection, unlike the Jackson pick last year.

Chiefnj2
03-22-2010, 08:40 AM
At least one could rationalize the Dez "White" selection, unlike the Jackson pick last year.

If they don't take Berry, it seems like the most logical choice. Not that I would do it.

DeezNutz
03-22-2010, 08:42 AM
If they don't take Berry, it seems like the most logical choice. Not that I would do it.

Dan Williams will have to be in the conversation, too. Again, not my choice at #5. Just saying...

RedThat
03-22-2010, 08:43 AM
I'm accepting the fact that we are going with some kind of offensive/defensive lineman with #5, whether it be Okung, Bulaga, Suh, or McCoy. If we aren't going to draft Berry, I would rather we just trade down. We have so many holes to fill and if Berry isn't a possibility, I'd rather have multiple high round picks than either of those four.

Yup. I feel the same way. I wouldn't mind see a trade down, I don't feel they'll take Berry at #5. I think they're gonna go either Offensive lineman or Defensive lineman.

Picking Bulaga at #5 would be stupid because I think he'll be available if they traded down. Yeah I wouldn't mind a trade down it'd be a great option not just for a pick like Bulaga but even if they were to take a guy like Dan Williams.

I still think they could use either an offensive tackle or defensive tackle, but thats just me.

A lot of us complained last year when they took T Jackson at #3. Ultimately, the biggest mistake Pioli made was not trading down. They could've had T Jackson if they traded down imo.

A trade down would be ideal for a team that has many holes and in a 2010 draft class that many consider to be deep.

Chiefnj2
03-22-2010, 08:45 AM
Dan Williams will have to be in the conversation, too. Again, not my choice at #5. Just saying...

Have you seen any ratings or mock that has Williams going in the top 10?

DeezNutz
03-22-2010, 08:47 AM
Have you seen any ratings or mock that has Williams going in the top 10?

Nope.

Walter's has him going at #11 overall to Denver. But that's higher than where Tyson Jackson was at this time last year.

PhillyChiefFan
03-22-2010, 08:49 AM
Yup. I feel the same way. I wouldn't mind see a trade down, I don't feel they'll take Berry at #5. I think they're gonna go either Offensive lineman or Defensive lineman.

Picking Bulaga at #5 would be stupid because I think he'll be available if they traded down. Yeah I wouldn't mind a trade down it'd be a great option not just for a pick like Bulaga but even if they were to take a guy like Dan Williams.

I still think they could use either an offensive tackle or defensive tackle, but thats just me.

A lot of us complained last year when they took T Jackson at #3. Ultimately, the biggest mistake Pioli made was not trading down. They could've had T Jackson if they traded down imo.

A trade down would be ideal for a team that has many holes and in a 2010 draft class that many consider to be deep.

He tried, I'm sure. But no one really wanted to trade that far up, for anyone. It was a weak draft and not worth the contract money the selection would have commanded.

DumbHillbillies
03-22-2010, 08:49 AM
Yup. I feel the same way. I wouldn't mind see a trade down, I don't feel they'll take Berry at #5. I think they're gonna go either Offensive lineman or Defensive lineman.

Picking Bulaga at #5 would be stupid because I think he'll be available if they traded down. Yeah I wouldn't mind a trade down it'd be a great option not just for a pick like Bulaga but even if they were to take a guy like Dan Williams.

I still think they could use either an offensive tackle or defensive tackle, but thats just me.

A lot of us complained last year when they took T Jackson at #3. Ultimately, the biggest mistake Pioli made was not trading down. They could've had T Jackson if they traded down imo.
A trade down would be ideal for a team that has many holes and in a 2010 draft class that many consider to be deep.

I believe pioli addressed this post draft, you have to have a team that is willing to trade up with you. If no team wanted to trade up or were trying to lowball us then I can't blame him.

ForeverChiefs58
03-22-2010, 08:49 AM
basically this article says if the chiefs get him he will suck, and if a team like the 49ers pick him he will be a HOFer.

tyton75
03-22-2010, 08:50 AM
I would love to see us trade down as well, the only way I see us being able to trade down is if one of the 2 QB's or Suh should fall into our laps.. there are a few teams that are really high on both of those QB's

I also wouldn't be shocked to see us take one

Chiefs=Good
03-22-2010, 08:51 AM
Dan Williams will have to be in the conversation, too. Again, not my choice at #5. Just saying...

I think this. sadly...

please atleast trade down pioli...... :(

Marco Polo
03-22-2010, 08:54 AM
you'd rather have Berry than Suh?

Yes. But I'd be okay with Suh only if we changed back to a 4-3. It doesn't make sense to have two stud 4-3 DTs as DEs.

Fish
03-22-2010, 08:57 AM
Playmakers are scary......

DumbHillbillies
03-22-2010, 09:04 AM
Yes. But I'd be okay with Suh only if we changed back to a 4-3. It doesn't make sense to have two stud 4-3 DTs as DEs.

Yeah, to me that should be a possible plan for us if suh falls in our lap. Hopefully, those fckers are not to stubborn to switch back.

Detoxing
03-22-2010, 09:06 AM
Last year we prayed and prayed for a good GM that wouldn't reach for safe prospects. We asked for a guy who wouldn't overlook talented players in order to draft for need or "positional value". We celebrated as the reign of Carl Peterson fell and rejoiced at the signing of Pioli.

Well.....one year later.....we may have Carl Peterson II, at least coming from a player personel standpoint.

Brock
03-22-2010, 09:07 AM
For the thousandth time, a safety in the top 5 almost never happens. It ain't gonna happen.

Dave Lane
03-22-2010, 09:17 AM
you'd rather have Berry than Suh?

Not me I'll take Suh please or a trade down.

DeezNutz
03-22-2010, 09:23 AM
For the thousandth time, a safety in the top 5 almost never happens. It ain't gonna happen.

Yes, it's rare, but so is Berry's talent level.

And the game is changing, placing greater importance on the safety position, so past drafts aren't as applicable points of comparison as one might initially think.

KCUnited
03-22-2010, 09:31 AM
As long as we don't grab a guy that can make an immediate impact we'll remain consistent.

Ralphy Boy
03-22-2010, 09:34 AM
Smoke ****ing screen. I have no proof of this, but jesus christ... Scott Pioli can't be THIS ****ing stupid.

This. Later he can say "I've never been in favor of drafting a safety this high, but I truly feel that Eric Berry is far too talented to pass on."

How has Darren Sharper's career turned out?

What about Rod Woodson?

I wouldn't say that either of them were necessarily big hitters and I wouldn't advocate drafting a strong safety so high.

It might be oversimplification on my part but the way I view the safety position is this:
Free Safety = Lean & fast ball hawk, playing deep in space, able to cover a slot receiver and good tackler
Strong Safety = Bigger & stronger, Big hitter, that is capable of destroying a WR that goes over the middle, with the size to play physical against a TE, RB, FB and fill in the box.

In this draft I'd love to come away with Eric Berry (6'0" 211) & Kam Chancellor (6'3" 230)

Chiefnj2
03-22-2010, 09:35 AM
KC doesn't need to smokescreen anyone. Do people really think a team is going to trade up into the top 4 for a safety?

ForeverChiefs58
03-22-2010, 09:35 AM
Depth Chart



POS First Second Third Other

LDE Tyson Jackson Wallace Gilberry Alex Magee
DT Ron Edwards Dion Gales Derek Lokey
RDE Glenn Dorsey Alex Magee Dion Gales
OLB1 Mike Vrabel Andy Studebaker Pierre Walters
MLB Demorrio Williams Derrick Johnson David Herron
MLB Corey Mays Jovan Belcher
OLB2 Tamba Hali Pierre Walters
LCB Brandon Flowers Mike Richardson Travis Daniels
RCB Brandon Carr Donald Washington

SS Mike Brown Reshard Langford
FS Jon McGraw Ricky Price

Pestilence
03-22-2010, 09:38 AM
Fuck history.

DaWolf
03-22-2010, 09:42 AM
A trade down may be a better possibility this year at five than last year at three. If they can find a trade partner I bet they take it. Doesn't sound like they're necessarily in love with anyone at the top of the draft...

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 09:46 AM
What about Rod Woodson?


Rod Woodson was an 75th anniversary player at cornerback. Only when his speed began to erode did he move to safety.

I'd love to Berry on the Chiefs but it's just not going to happen.

Blick
03-22-2010, 09:52 AM
It's a passing league...safeties should be considered this high...especially ones that are as good as Berry.

Don't fuck this up, Pioli.

Delano
03-22-2010, 09:56 AM
I was talking to [Kansas City GM] Scott Pioli about Berry, and I said, 'Scott, this guy's your pick.' And he said, 'You know how I feel about safeties that early.' And I understand.''
I'm not saying Berry won't be a great player. Maybe he'll be Ed Reed. Maybe he'll know when to dish out the big hit and when to steer a player instead of seek and destroy. But the odds of him being great for a long time -- as opposed to the physical longevity of a tackle or defensive lineman or quarterback not subject to as many high-speed collisions -- are pretty long, based on history.

http://i.imgur.com/3Pk0D.gif

Sure-Oz
03-22-2010, 10:00 AM
We'll draft Tysons Jackson part 2

Deberg_1990
03-22-2010, 10:00 AM
I'd love to Berry on the Chiefs but it's just not going to happen.

This..


King explains why Safetys are not picked top 5:

"The nature of the position is smallish people throwing themselves around like linebackers, and that doesn't lend itself to long careers. The three best safeties to be drafted in the past decade -- Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu and Bob Sanders -- have missed 78 games due to injury in their 21 combined NFL seasons"

Brock
03-22-2010, 10:03 AM
Get ready for a fat guy, unless you wish to hold out hope that Weis will push hard for Clausen.

Pestilence
03-22-2010, 10:36 AM
This..


King explains why Safetys are not picked top 5:

"The nature of the position is smallish people throwing themselves around like linebackers, and that doesn't lend itself to long careers. The three best safeties to be drafted in the past decade -- Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu and Bob Sanders -- have missed 78 games due to injury in their 21 combined NFL seasons"

King is a fucking idiot. Let's break that down by player.

Sanders - 6 seasons - 39 games missed.
Reed - 8 seasons - 11 games missed
Polamalu - 7 seasons - 19 games missed

That's 69 games missed throughout their entire careers......and Bob Sanders accounts for over half of those games missed.

Chocolate Hog
03-22-2010, 10:45 AM
LMAO hey true fans hows that hopey changey stuff?

Ralphy Boy
03-22-2010, 10:49 AM
Rod Woodson was an 75th anniversary player at cornerback. Only when his speed began to erode did he move to safety.

I'd love to Berry on the Chiefs but it's just not going to happen.

I should have been more clear, I was talking more about the fact that, like Berry, Woodson was a guy who wasn't necessarily locked into one position.

I've been saying for weeks that we'll end up with Dan Williams, but I don't want him at 5. As far as what I want, f**k it, I'm going down with the Berry ship. The kid is a special talent. Not saying you convert him to CB, but that worked out pretty well for Asomugha and I think it would be an easier transition for Berry.

The funny thing about the greatness of Woodson is that he played corner for 10 years at a very high level and then moved to S and 4 more pro bowls.

Chiefnj2
03-22-2010, 10:52 AM
Over 7 seasons how many games has KC's other 1st round picks missed? Missing 12 games over that amount of time would be a huge improvement - Sims (not on the team), DJ (backup duty last year), LJ (not on the team), Bowe (suspended 4 games) ...

ClevelandBronco
03-22-2010, 11:01 AM
POS First Second Third Other

LDE Tyson Jackson Wallace Gilberry Alex Magee
DT Ron Edwards Dion Gales Derek Lokey
RDE Glenn Dorsey Alex Magee Dion Gales
OLB1 Mike Vrabel Andy Studebaker Pierre Walters
MLB Demorrio Williams Derrick Johnson David Herron
MLB Corey Mays Jovan Belcher
OLB2 Tamba Hali Pierre Walters
LCB Brandon Flowers Mike Richardson Travis Daniels
RCB Brandon Carr Donald Washington

SS Mike Brown Reshard Langford
FS Jon McGraw Ricky Price

I've think I've spent too much time here. At first I thought the POS in your first line stood for Piece of Shit.

I'll resist the urge to take that observation any further.

kysirsoze
03-22-2010, 11:11 AM
King is a ****ing idiot. Let's break that down by player.

Sanders - 6 seasons - 39 games missed.
Reed - 8 seasons - 11 games missed
Polamalu - 7 seasons - 19 games missed

That's 69 games missed throughout their entire careers......and Bob Sanders accounts for over half of those games missed.

This.

These stats are bullshit. I'd rather take a shot at a guy with a high ROI. Scared money don't win. I'm gonna be pretty upset if our #5 pick is fighting for a starting spot in his second season.

Ralphy Boy
03-22-2010, 11:14 AM
Suh is a 4-3 DT though.



I disagree, multiple "experts" have referenced he, unlike McCoy, as being capable of playing 3-4 DE.

Have you seen any ratings or mock that has Williams going in the top 10?

Nope.

Walter's has him going at #11 overall to Denver. But that's higher than where Tyson Jackson was at this time last year.

Have you seen all the teams that are running a 3-4 with a shitty NT?

I believe pioli addressed this post draft, you have to have a team that is willing to trade up with you. If no team wanted to trade up or were trying to lowball us then I can't blame him.

Stupid on his part. Take less "value" and save the Hunt family's f-ing money if you think you can still get the guy 3 or 4 picks later.

Depth Chart

POS First Second Third Other

SS Mike Brown Reshard Langford
FS Jon McGraw Ricky Price

My eyes went right to POS and then saw Brown & McGraw in bold and I thought "yep".

Ralphy Boy
03-22-2010, 11:18 AM
I've think I've spent too much time here. At first I thought the POS in your first line stood for Piece of Shit.

I'll resist the urge to take that observation any further.

You beat me to it. Thats what I get for reading the entire thread and doing a multi-tag quote.

DeezNutz
03-22-2010, 11:20 AM
Have you seen all the teams that are running a 3-4 with a shitty NT?


Yes, I'm a Chiefs fan.

Our defense must get stronger up the middle.

My preference would be to address the safety position at #5. If not, addressing the NT would make a shit ton more sense than addressing ILB.

ForeverChiefs58
03-22-2010, 12:17 PM
My eyes went right to POS and then saw Brown & McGraw in bold and I thought "yep".

Thats funny, because I did the same thing. Wondering what is POS? Lets see P could be for Position, hey look there is Brown & McGraw, and the depth after them...nope it def. stands for piece of shit. ROFLROFL yet :(:( at the same time.

talastan
03-22-2010, 12:31 PM
Smokescreening IMO.

Why in the hell would Pioli talk to Dimitroff about our draft strategy and then why in the hell would Dimitroff who comes from the Pats secret society blab that to King if it wasn't a smokescreen?

CoMoChief
03-22-2010, 12:33 PM
you'd rather have Berry than Suh?

We don't run a 4-3.....so yes I'd rather have Berry, a player that's been compared to Ed Reed.

CanadaKC
03-22-2010, 12:37 PM
If Okung is gone at 5...and this draft is deep in tackles...and he passes on the best player available..period...also a NEED...he'll NEVER win over the fans. 10 years is too long to wait for a rebuilding process....you don't let a safety with Berry's skills pass you by...just look at the records of Pittsburgh without Polamalu and Baltimore without Reed...both crap!

DeezNutz
03-22-2010, 12:44 PM
We don't run a 4-3.....so yes I'd rather have Berry, a player that's been compared to Ed Reed.

:hmmm:

Suh...?

:Poke:

notorious
03-22-2010, 12:56 PM
Last year we prayed and prayed for a good GM that wouldn't reach for safe prospects. We asked for a guy who wouldn't overlook talented players in order to draft for need or "positional value". We celebrated as the reign of Carl Peterson fell and rejoiced at the signing of Pioli.

Well.....one year later.....we may have Carl Peterson II, at least coming from a player personel standpoint.


Repost

www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=203355

:) :) :)

Chiefnj2
03-22-2010, 01:00 PM
There is no way in hell that Williams or McClain end up with a higher draft grade than Berry.

DaWolf
03-22-2010, 01:52 PM
I think Pioli would like to trade out of that spot. That said, whether or not we take Berry will depend on how hard someone from within the organization pushes for the guy. I think Pioli is just waiting to be convinced that that's the guy you have to go with. I don't think he looks at that spot right now and sees anyone who is a slam dunk can't miss pick there. We're about to find out how much influence the people Pioli has surrounded himself with have. If he invites dissent and arguments to his own thinking, then this could change, assuming anyone else inside the organization wants to champion Berry...

Chiefnj2
03-22-2010, 01:54 PM
I think Pioli would like to trade out of that spot. That said, whether or not we take Berry will depend on how hard someone from within the organization pushes for the guy. I think Pioli is just waiting to be convinced that that's the guy you have to go with. I don't think he looks at that spot right now and sees anyone who is a slam dunk can't miss pick there. We're about to find out how much influence the people Pioli has surrounded himself with have. If he invites dissent and arguments to his own thinking, then this could change, assuming anyone else inside the organization wants to champion Berry...

How can one look at Berry and say "he isn't a slam dunk can't miss prospect"?

FAX
03-22-2010, 02:43 PM
Smokescreening IMO.

Why in the hell would Pioli talk to Dimitroff about our draft strategy and then why in the hell would Dimitroff who comes from the Pats secret society blab that to King if it wasn't a smokescreen?

It is exceedingly strange to have our GM quoted by another GM on the subject of draft picks. Is Pioli really so poor at this game that he's going to discuss his actual draft leanings with a known stinking rat squealer?

FAX

Douche Baggins
03-22-2010, 03:07 PM
The three best safeties to be drafted in the past decade -- Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu and Bob Sanders -- have missed 78 games due to injury in their 21 combined NFL seasons. .

Peter King has hidden the truth.

Bob Sanders has missed 49 of 96 regular season games
Troy Polamalu has missed 19 of 112 regular season games
Ed Reed has missed 4 of 128 regular season games.

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 03:08 PM
Smokescreening IMO.

Why in the hell would Pioli talk to Dimitroff about our draft strategy and then why in the hell would Dimitroff who comes from the Pats secret society blab that to King if it wasn't a smokescreen?

Because Pioli is telling the truth: He has no interest in drafting a safety at #5 overall.

beer bacon
03-22-2010, 03:11 PM
So your saying GMs usually just advertise who they want to draft weeks or months before the draft? Well, that isn't very smart.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 03:13 PM
There is no way in hell that Williams or McClain end up with a higher draft grade than Berry.

That's true but we have a GM that values fat bodies.

notorious
03-22-2010, 03:14 PM
That's true but we have a GM that values fat bodies.

and a coach that insists on making them lose weight........

DaWolf
03-22-2010, 03:27 PM
How can one look at Berry and say "he isn't a slam dunk can't miss prospect"?

A lot of people on this board would have said that about Dorsey and DJ before they were drafted as well...

Mecca
03-22-2010, 03:32 PM
LB's aren't worth high picks and well Dorsey's injury history alone made him a bit risky.

DeezNutz
03-22-2010, 03:33 PM
Dorsey was coming off of an injury and DJ's knock was that he tried to run around blockers (#15 overall...big difference).

What's Berry's known area of weakness?

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 03:34 PM
A lot of people on this board would have said that about Dorsey and DJ before they were drafted as well...

DJ was a terrible pick. Aaron Rodgers should have been the choice that day.

I was actually not in favor of the Dorsey selection and would have preferred a few other people to him.

But with that said, IF he were properly utilized, he'd be a freaking beast.

Ralphy Boy
03-22-2010, 03:54 PM
It is exceedingly strange to have our GM quoted by another GM on the subject of draft picks. Is Pioli really so poor at this game that he's going to discuss his actual draft leanings with a known stinking rat squealer?

FAX

Yeah if I were Pioli I'd have called him up and said "Hey f@ckface! What the hell are you doing??? Shut your freaking face!"

That is unless I was afraid of another team leapfrogging me to get him.:hmmm:

Seriously, it makes absolutely zero sense for Dimitroff to say that. The only real option is either:
A) Dimitroff just screwed over his friend by taking away any possibility that another team will trade for either our pick or Berry.
or
B) Dimitroff said it to try to help throw off any team that might have been interested in trading up to Washington to get him.

Or
C) Devaluing Berry so we can trade down and still get him.

Whatever your rationale or thought process, Dimitroff is a smart guy and I don't think he'd say something so careless without an alterior motive.

SNR
03-22-2010, 04:07 PM
I'm hearing talk of Dan Williams.

You know this problem could have been avoided LAST YEAR by drafting Raji. Pioli would get his fatass and at least the Chiefs would be closer to being a successful 3-4 team.

SNR
03-22-2010, 04:09 PM
Dorsey was coming off of an injury and DJ's knock was that he tried to run around blockers (#15 overall...big difference).

What's Berry's known area of weakness?lawl hes a safty

DaWolf
03-22-2010, 04:11 PM
Dorsey was coming off of an injury and DJ's knock was that he tried to run around blockers (#15 overall...big difference).

What's Berry's known area of weakness?

As with anyone, that probably depend on who you ask or what you look for (biggest thing I've read is weakness with tackling).

Hey, keep in mind I am not arguing against Berry; quite the contrary, I believe in acquiring playmakers, and I think he is definitely going to be one. But I'm trying to get into Pioli's thought process and see if I can dissect this statement. Pioli is a big system guy and wants to make sure everyone he drafts has a purpose in the type of system they run. To me, the statement he makes is saying that in general, he doesn't think that position is normally one where you use a top 5 pick on. However, if Romeo wants to argue the point and beat the drum for this guy, and if the scouts across the board indicate that he will make a significant difference in this defense, I think he could end up making an exception. If that does not occur, if there is no loud voice in his favor or there is a lot of internal disagreement over Berry, then he'll probably go with another position or look to trade down.

Keep in mind that Pioli should know better than anyone the importance of a great safety. His team has had to play many times against the likes of Reed, Sanders, Polamalu, he's had good ones with the Pats with Milloy and Harrison, and don't forget he was with the Browns when Eric Turner was playing there, and he was drafted at No 2 overall in the '91 draft by Bellichick IIRC. So I think if the internal discussion in the draft room makes the argument that this guy will be a difference maker for this defense and will fit in perfectly, and we don't get blown away by a trade offer, I would not be surprised if we make the Berry pick...

Mecca
03-22-2010, 04:13 PM
Earl Thomas is the one that can't tackle...see on this forum people get all up in arms about highlight vids that show guys hitting.

Because a dude delivers hits does not mean he can't tackle and no one is going to put form tackles in a highlight vid.

The Bad Guy
03-22-2010, 04:18 PM
You know, I would believe this. However, talking to Berry several times at the combine says to me they would take a safety that high.

I'm preparing to be let down big time, but they have done absolutely nothing to address the defense this off-season. They have basically 2 safeties on the roster in Morgan and Page. They have to upgrade there.

I just hope it's Berry.

Ralphy Boy
03-22-2010, 04:20 PM
DJ was a terrible pick. Aaron Rodgers should have been the choice that day.

I was actually not in favor of the Dorsey selection and would have preferred a few other people to him.

But with that said, IF he were properly utilized, he'd be a freaking beast.

Yes in hindsight, DJ over Rodgers = HUGE FAIL

The saddest part is that Rodgers fell right past us and we didn't even sniff at him. Then again, so did Houston, Baltimore, Minnesota, St Louis, Jax & Oakland. Maybe Green Bay knew something we all didn't. Maybe they just figured with the 24th pick, it was good enough value to take the chance and got lucky. Maybe Rodgers became what he is because of great coaching.

I guess the lesson learned there would be that even if you have a franchise QB, which we do not, you don't pass on one that falls to you. Whether or not Clausen is a franchise QB is up for debate. A lot of "experts" have him rated lower than our pick, so taking him at 5 wouldn't be quite the same thing.

If we ever have a good enough team, that we feel like we can walk into a draft like we should and take BAA, then we'd damn well better do our homework on every player in the draft; so that if another Aaron Rodgers falls to us, we don't shit ourselves again and pass, simply because we didn't know enough about him to make an educated decision.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 04:21 PM
I've never believed we'd take Berry either, they'll take a lineman first, O or D you can guess on that and then take a safety in the 2nd.

FAX
03-22-2010, 04:22 PM
... Maybe Rodgers became what he is because of great coaching. ...

Man. I would really like to hear this said about one of our draft picks someday.

FAX

DaWolf
03-22-2010, 04:24 PM
Rodgers falling was probably due to the failure of Boller and the NFL not trusting another Tedford QB more than anything. Classic case of the NFL over evaluating and nitpicking...

tk13
03-22-2010, 04:27 PM
That was definitely it. At the time he was labeled another Tedford project, and that was a bad label to have at the time.

keg in kc
03-22-2010, 04:28 PM
You know, I would believe this. However, talking to Berry several times at the combine says to me they would take a safety that high.Not to mention Flowers working out with him and Crennel running his pro day.

There's some smoke, whether or not there's a fire time will tell.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 04:30 PM
The problem with all that is there are teams that workout guys numerous times knowing that they'll never take them just to make other teams think they will.

Ralphy Boy
03-22-2010, 04:39 PM
Peter King has hidden the truth.

Bob Sanders has missed 49 of 96 regular season games
Troy Polamalu has missed 19 of 112 regular season games
Ed Reed has missed 4 of 128 regular season games.



He's also glossed over the fact that;
Sanders & Polamalu are both smaller Strong Safeties, both 5'10" or less and weighing less than 210. Polamalu might be able to move to FS, but Sanders is what he is because he lays the wood. Neither have the size to be big hitters for very long.

Ed Reed is a Free Safety and has played in every game for 6 of his 8 seasons in the league. He's missed 10 games in his career. He's had a neck injury for some time, but the injuries that caused him to miss 4 games last season were related to his foot and groin.

Berry is a Free Safety. He's not going to be in the box, he should be playing deep. I'm not saying he'll never get hurt, but injury issues shouldn't be a reason to not draft him.

Ralphy Boy
03-22-2010, 04:45 PM
Rodgers falling was probably due to the failure of Boller and the NFL not trusting another Tedford QB more than anything. Classic case of the NFL over evaluating and nitpicking...

add Harrington, Carr and Akili Smith to that list.

DaWolf
03-22-2010, 04:46 PM
Actually the more I think about it, the more I think this is probably a typical discussion that Pioli and Dimitrioff have had in the course of working together. If the Patriots really do value having guys in the personnel department who will debate each other and raise questions rather than having an Al Davis draft room (Al: "I'm taking Heyward-Bey, he's fast." Scouts: "Yes master.") then this is probably a typical thing where one guy sings the guys virtues, and another guy raises the opposite point of view to get everyone thinking about all the angles out there, positive and negative. I think that's the only context Dimitrioff is going to present this to King. If it was some inside info, I doubt he goes blabbing to King and basically strain that friendship with Pioli...

Mecca
03-22-2010, 04:56 PM
In fairness Berry has spent most of his college career at SS but he's really either or.

Sweet Daddy Hate
03-22-2010, 05:01 PM
Matt Cassel is paid like a franchise QB.

Need more be said about Pioli's proclivities?

Deberg_1990
03-22-2010, 05:01 PM
DJ was a terrible pick. Aaron Rodgers should have been the choice that day.

I was actually not in favor of the Dorsey selection and would have preferred a few other people to him.

But with that said, IF he were properly utilized, he'd be a freaking beast.

heh....everyone knows how i feel about the DJ over Rodgers pick.....

But ive come to terms with it. The Chiefs were in a different state then, not thinking about the future. They needed defense and DJ was good value at number 16 or whatever he was.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 05:02 PM
Anymore I think it's probably come to the realization of most people that post here that OLB's to be worth 16 have to be elite players, the position isn't worth the pick unless the guy is a stud from day 1.

Deberg_1990
03-22-2010, 05:04 PM
Anymore I think it's probably come to the realization of most people that post here that OLB's to be worth 16 have to be elite players, the position isn't worth the pick unless the guy is a stud from day 1.

IM not even sure its smart to take a LB in the first round, unless hes a pass rushing stud.

Most Linebackers are interchangable to be honest.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 05:05 PM
In order to call a top 20 pick LB a good pick, the guy basically has to be Brian Cushing from this past draft or any number of examples you can think of before that.

Ralphy Boy
03-22-2010, 05:05 PM
heh....everyone knows how i feel about the DJ over Rodgers pick.....

But ive come to terms with it. The Chiefs were in a different state then, not thinking about the future. They needed defense and DJ was good value at number 16 or whatever he was.

Oh I was happy as hell when we got him.

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 05:51 PM
add Harrington, Carr and Akili Smith to that list.

No

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 05:56 PM
Yes in hindsight, DJ over Rodgers = HUGE FAIL

The saddest part is that Rodgers fell right past us and we didn't even sniff at him. Then again, so did Houston, Baltimore, Minnesota, St Louis, Jax & Oakland. Maybe Green Bay knew something we all didn't. Maybe they just figured with the 24th pick, it was good enough value to take the chance and got lucky. Maybe Rodgers became what he is because of great coaching.


Houston had just drafted Carr #1 overall - why would they take Rodgers?

Minnesota had Culpepper - why would they take Rodgers?

St. Louis had Bulger - why would they take Rodgers?

Jacksonville had just taken Leftwich - why would they take Rodgers?

Oakland - They ARE the Raiders, aren't they?

The bottom line is that Vermeil didn't want to develop a QB. He passed on Brees and again on Rodgers because he believed in Trent Green.

And Green was PISSED when Croyle was chosen in 2006. Could you imagine his ire had they taken Rodgers in 2005?

MahiMike
03-22-2010, 06:06 PM
Get ready for a fat guy, unless you wish to hold out hope that Weis will push hard for Clausen.

Yup and I can't see ANOTHER DL. That leaves OL or Claussen. Anyone heard a rumor like this with Pioli and Claussen? Any smoke screens there?

Chocolate Hog
03-22-2010, 06:55 PM
Matt Cassel is paid like a franchise QB.

Need more be said about Pioli's proclivities?

Nice pic lol

Sweet Daddy Hate
03-22-2010, 07:10 PM
As long as we don't grab a guy that can make an immediate impact we'll remain consistent.

Nice pic lol

O-wee O-wee Oh! :D

SNR
03-22-2010, 07:20 PM
Houston had just drafted Carr #1 overall - why would they take Rodgers?

Minnesota had Culpepper - why would they take Rodgers?

St. Louis had Bulger - why would they take Rodgers?

Jacksonville had just taken Leftwich - why would they take Rodgers?

Oakland - They ARE the Raiders, aren't they?

The bottom line is that Vermeil didn't want to develop a QB. He passed on Brees and again on Rodgers because he believed in Trent Green.

And Green was PISSED when Croyle was chosen in 2006. Could you imagine his ire had they taken Rodgers in 2005?We can also learn another lesson from the Packers in this situation: Don't listen to your whiney bitch starting QB no matter how fantastic of a HOF career he had with your team.

Green Bay IS a better team having gotten rid of Favre because they have a future. Kansas City should have done the same thing. Green and Favre can STFU.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 07:22 PM
Green Bay knows what it's doing...us on the other hand, yea.

JASONSAUTO
03-22-2010, 07:22 PM
As with anyone, that probably depend on who you ask or what you look for (biggest thing I've read is weakness with tackling).

Hey, keep in mind I am not arguing against Berry; quite the contrary, I believe in acquiring playmakers, and I think he is definitely going to be one. But I'm trying to get into Pioli's thought process and see if I can dissect this statement. Pioli is a big system guy and wants to make sure everyone he drafts has a purpose in the type of system they run. To me, the statement he makes is saying that in general, he doesn't think that position is normally one where you use a top 5 pick on. However, if Romeo wants to argue the point and beat the drum for this guy, and if the scouts across the board indicate that he will make a significant difference in this defense, I think he could end up making an exception. If that does not occur, if there is no loud voice in his favor or there is a lot of internal disagreement over Berry, then he'll probably go with another position or look to trade down.

Keep in mind that Pioli should know better than anyone the importance of a great safety. His team has had to play many times against the likes of Reed, Sanders, Polamalu, he's had good ones with the Pats with Milloy and Harrison, and don't forget he was with the Browns when Eric Turner was playing there, and he was drafted at No 2 overall in the '91 draft by Bellichick IIRC. So I think if the internal discussion in the draft room makes the argument that this guy will be a difference maker for this defense and will fit in perfectly, and we don't get blown away by a trade offer, I would not be surprised if we make the Berry pick...

so wasnt pioli in cleveland with BB? maybe what pioli said to dimitroff is being taken wrong....
Posted via Mobile Device

Mecca
03-22-2010, 07:38 PM
Here's a take on the Chiefs draft spot from someone who generally has good opinions, get ready to frown.

Bulaga makes more sense than taking Eric Berry (a Safety not named Sean Taylor) at 5th Overall. The team needs big time help on the OL, and Bulaga fits the nasty, blue-collar profile that Scott Pioli is known for being attracted to. At this time last year you'd say "please I am begging people to stop with this Tyson Jackson to KC garbage"... Not all the fans have to like their draft choices and I find that many fans assume it's them making the pick, not the GM. There are such things as premium positions, and Left Tackle/Quarterback/DL are always going to be at the top of that list. You don't take a Safety 5th Overall, most NFL GMs would agree to that.

CanadaKC
03-22-2010, 07:40 PM
From Scout.com's latest mock...


"This is the dream scenario for the Chiefs: Berry falls into their lap. Berry gives the Chiefs a leader on defense and a playmaker in the secondary."


:shake:

Deberg_1990
03-22-2010, 07:41 PM
Not all the fans have to like their draft choices and I find that many fans assume it's them making the pick, not the GM. There are such things as premium positions, and Left Tackle/Quarterback/DL are always going to be at the top of that list. You don't take a Safety 5th Overall, most NFL GMs would agree to that.

Alot of guys on this board havent learned this yet....

Ralphy Boy
03-22-2010, 07:42 PM
Here's a take on the Chiefs draft spot from someone who generally has good opinions, get ready to frown.
Bulaga makes more sense than taking Eric Berry (a Safety not named Sean Taylor) at 5th Overall. The team needs big time help on the OL, and Bulaga fits the nasty, blue-collar profile that Scott Pioli is known for being attracted to. At this time last year you'd say "please I am begging people to stop with this Tyson Jackson to KC garbage"... Not all the fans have to like their draft choices and I find that many fans assume it's them making the pick, not the GM. There are such things as premium positions, and Left Tackle/Quarterback/DL are always going to be at the top of that list. You don't take a Safety 5th Overall, most NFL GMs would agree to that.

Yeah and who would that person be, you?

BossChief
03-22-2010, 07:43 PM
I wonder how his shoulder tests out by the medical staff...I like him, but I do fear that him being undersized and already having issues with his shoulder could lead to long term problems.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 07:47 PM
Yeah and who would that person be, you?

No it's not from me but I figured posting some takes that don't come from Chiefs fans would be good since sometimes we come from a different spot than someone with an outside view does.

For example a Chiefs fan was told.....It seems to me that you guys (Chiefs fans) are predicting what the team will do based on what you want, rather than what Scott Pioli and Co. will do in April.

I'm sorry, but if I'm Scott Pioli and I'm picking fifth overall, then I realize that I need to be smart with my money. I'm not taking a safety or inside linebacker fifth overall.

He has to be the perfect safety. I'm talking Eric Berry's talent with Mays' physical attributes. If that were the case, then I would take him, no questions asked.

However, that's not the case and if Okung and/or Bulaga are still on the board, then I'm taking either one of them, because it's the smarter choice, especially financially.

doomy3
03-22-2010, 07:48 PM
Mecca, is there a reason you can't simply post a link or at least tell us who says the things you post, or scouting reports you throw up from time to time?

CanadaKC
03-22-2010, 07:50 PM
Yup..another year...another non-playmaker....another reach...another non-leader...let's just draft all those blue collar guys who fit a position

Mecca
03-22-2010, 07:50 PM
They're all on the NFLDC forum the Chiefs have been a hot topic there lately...even Scott Wright chimed in with...

The bottom line is you can get safeties on the open market or through trades. We have seen perfect examples of that this offseason. However, basically the only way to get a top offensive tackle is to draft one. That is why the Chiefs will pass on Berry at #5 and devote the mega resource that is the #5 overall pick to a premium position.

The NFLDC forum makes for a nice read if you'd like some more outside views on what the Chiefs will do than coming from our bubble.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 07:52 PM
And Wright goes to why I don't think the Chiefs will draft Berry...

The Chiefs #1 focus needs to be giving Matt Cassel all the tools he needs to succeed. If Cassel doesn't work out the Chiefs will be set back five years (at least) and a lot of people in that organization are going to lose their jobs.

doomy3
03-22-2010, 07:53 PM
Well, I actually agree with a lot of those takes, I just wondered who was saying them. IMO, ideally, we will be able to trade back and get a guy like Bulaga, Dan Williams, even Bryant, Earl Thomas, Mays, etc. and pick up some more picks this year or next. I think Berry is a very good prospect, but there are so many good safety prospects in this draft that I don't know if the difference between him at 5 and Thomas later in the first or even one of the safeties later would be that huge of the difference. Not sure you could say the same thing for the difference between Okung, Bulaga, Williams and the other tackles available in the 2nd or later.

OnTheWarpath58
03-22-2010, 07:55 PM
And Wright goes to why I don't think the Chiefs will draft Berry...

The Chiefs #1 focus needs to be giving Matt Cassel all the tools he needs to succeed. If Cassel doesn't work out the Chiefs will be set back five years (at least) and a lot of people in that organization are going to lose their jobs.

Nothing like covering up a mistake by making another mistake.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 07:55 PM
Basically what I learned from reading some draft forums etc outside of this place is the only people that think the Chiefs will take Berry are Chiefs fans, no one else even thinks it's a consideration.

When you see things like "You Chiefs fans are going to be heavily disappointed if you're thinking they'll take Berry"

Or things like...A very good offensive tackle is much more valuable than a great safety.

Remember the three steps to winning in the NFL: Get a QB, Protect your QB, and get to the other team's QB.

The positions that correspond with those imperatives are: QB, OT, and DE.

Nowhere on that list is the instruction to "find a safety to sit in the backfield while your offensive line gets torn to shreds and your defensive line can't get any pressure on the other quarterback".

Mecca
03-22-2010, 07:56 PM
Nothing like covering up a mistake by making another mistake.

Does it surprise you?

I fully believe Pioli is in cover your ass mode, he has to make Cassel look like he wasn't a mistake because of he was odds are Pioli loses his job shortly...

doomy3
03-22-2010, 07:57 PM
Basically what I learned from reading some draft forums etc outside of this place is the only people that think the Chiefs will take Berry are Chiefs fans, no one else even thinks it's a consideration.

When you see things like "You Chiefs fans are going to be heavily disappointed if you're thinking they'll take Berry"

Or things like...A very good offensive tackle is much more valuable than a great safety.

Remember the three steps to winning in the NFL: Get a QB, Protect your QB, and get to the other team's QB.

The positions that correspond with those imperatives are: QB, OT, and DE.

Nowhere on that list is the instruction to "find a safety to sit in the backfield while your offensive line gets torn to shreds and your defensive line can't get any pressure on the other quarterback".

"Morton is online now reply with quote"

Jesus, dude. Can you link this stuff. How many of your posts are just shit you are copying and pasting and playing it off as your own words or insight?

JASONSAUTO
03-22-2010, 07:58 PM
Mecca, is there a reason you can't simply post a link or at least tell us who says the things you post, or scouting reports you throw up from time to time?

because most of them are from POSTERS at the nfldc forums. just average guys like all the people here. i wonder if he takes the horsemen's posts over there to make himself look right....
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OnTheWarpath58
03-22-2010, 07:58 PM
Does it surprise you?

I fully believe Pioli is in cover your ass mode, he has to make Cassel look like he wasn't a mistake because of he was odds are Pioli loses his job shortly...

No, it doesn't surprise me.

What would surprise me is if by some act of God Pioli didn't fuck up the pick.

Or the other 7 following it.

doomy3
03-22-2010, 07:59 PM
At least he quickly edited the end of the post I quoted, that said "Morton is online reply with quote."

Morton makes a good point.

CanadaKC
03-22-2010, 07:59 PM
. *Eric Berry, Tennessee, 6-0, 211, 1
This is one case where there was probably nothing to be gained in terms of his football career had Berry stayed in Knoxville for one more year. This intense player has displayed insane on-field abilities and may be the best athlete in this draft. He certainly gave credence to that perspective at the combine, where he ran 40 yards in 4.43 seconds, soared 43 inches in the vertical jump and had the second most reps of any defensive back by benching 225 pounds 19 times. He said he would like to schedule another pre-draft workout after leaving Tennessee's pro day early with a minor toe injury. Rated as one of the top cornerbacks in the country coming out of high school, Berry found a home at safety in college. In 2008 he led the nation with 265 return yards on seven interceptions and became the first Volunteer named a unanimous first-team All American since 1990.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 08:00 PM
I told you I was going to show you some thoughts from other people, but sure act like I acted like I said it.

:facepalm:

The Chiefs are a heavy topic on NFLDC as of the moment, if you want to go read it fine but I thought it would make more sense just to throw it up on here.

JASONSAUTO
03-22-2010, 08:00 PM
Does it surprise you?

I fully believe Pioli is in cover your ass mode, he has to make Cassel look like he wasn't a mistake because of he was odds are Pioli loses his job shortly...

lol
Posted via Mobile Device

Deberg_1990
03-22-2010, 08:00 PM
Does it surprise you?

I fully believe Pioli is in cover your ass mode, he has to make Cassel look like he wasn't a mistake because of he was odds are Pioli loses his job shortly...

heh....Chiefs GM job security is second to none. If Cassel doesnt work out, Pioli will still have a job..Haley will be the one to go.

Your abolutely right about them not picking Berry though. They will do everything in their power to help make Cassel a better player....and honestly, with the $$$ they have invested in him, thats the right thing to do for now.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 08:02 PM
And this guy here, he sums up why it sucks being a Chiefs fan.

Even as a Chiefs fan, neither do you. Not one Chiefs fan on this board even entertained the possibility of Tyson Jackson a year ago with your Top 5 pick, even on draft day.

Remember Aaron Curry, the lock?

Vidae, you had this to say after the Chiefs pick a year ago "Terrible. Just terrible."

T-RICH only days prior to the draft "I wish the rumors about Tyson Jackson would stop. He is Ryan Sims v 2.0 IMO only different positions"

I love the Kansas City fans here, but as far as predicting the draft goes, I don't think they have any more insight on Scott Pioli than the casual Giants or Jaguars fan. Your GM doesn't give a **** if you like the pick, he'll make it if he wants it. DL/OT/QB are the premium positions in today's NFL and the Top 5 will likely consist of only those positions this year.

Bryan Bulaga is a prospect that many would take before Eric Berry? Rock at Left Tackle? Or playmaker at Safety?... Good luck finding a physical LT past the first round. I agree ILB/S may be worse situations, bigger holes, but they're also holes that can be addressed later on. I would bet OL for the Chiefs whether it be Okung, Bulaga, or Trent Williams. I have seen nothing to suggest the Kirk Ferentz-Pioli connection would have the Chiefs taking Bulaga over Russell Okung. Hopefully it clears up a bit...

Not sure whether Pioli sees the hole at LT as glaring or something that can be addressed in later years... but I don't see them going Safety/Linebacker in the Top 5, I really just don't think that's your GMs personality.


Sadly I agree with that take.

JASONSAUTO
03-22-2010, 08:07 PM
And this guy here, he sums up why it sucks being a Chiefs fan.

Even as a Chiefs fan, neither do you. Not one Chiefs fan on this board even entertained the possibility of Tyson Jackson a year ago with your Top 5 pick, even on draft day.

Remember Aaron Curry, the lock?

Vidae, you had this to say after the Chiefs pick a year ago "Terrible. Just terrible."

T-RICH only days prior to the draft "I wish the rumors about Tyson Jackson would stop. He is Ryan Sims v 2.0 IMO only different positions"

I love the Kansas City fans here, but as far as predicting the draft goes, I don't think they have any more insight on Scott Pioli than the casual Giants or Jaguars fan. Your GM doesn't give a **** if you like the pick, he'll make it if he wants it. DL/OT/QB are the premium positions in today's NFL and the Top 5 will likely consist of only those positions this year.

Bryan Bulaga is a prospect that many would take before Eric Berry? Rock at Left Tackle? Or playmaker at Safety?... Good luck finding a physical LT past the first round. I agree ILB/S may be worse situations, bigger holes, but they're also holes that can be addressed later on. I would bet OL for the Chiefs whether it be Okung, Bulaga, or Trent Williams. I have seen nothing to suggest the Kirk Ferentz-Pioli connection would have the Chiefs taking Bulaga over Russell Okung. Hopefully it clears up a bit...

Not sure whether Pioli sees the hole at LT as glaring or something that can be addressed in later years... but I don't see them going Safety/Linebacker in the Top 5, I really just don't think that's your GMs personality.


Sadly I agree with that take.

so if these guys were saying that they would bet its berry you would believe its gonna be berry? i mean it seems as though you are using their posts to justify your position on who we are interested in.
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Mecca
03-22-2010, 08:09 PM
Just showing some views that come from out of the Chiefs circle, I've never believed we'd take Berry personally, doesn't mean they won't but it doesn't really fit I'll say that.

doomy3
03-22-2010, 08:10 PM
Just showing some views that come from out of the Chiefs circle, I've never believed we'd take Berry personally, doesn't mean they won't but it doesn't really fit I'll say that.

Do you think they should, or do you agree with the points brought up by the people whose posts you are posting?

Mecca
03-22-2010, 08:12 PM
I think they should, but I'd rather be pleasantly surprised if they do than lose my mind at them doing something stupid.

I'll just prepare for stupid because I expect it with this regime. The fact of the matter though is how stupid they decide to be with it...

I personally don't think you should ever pass on the guy who's possibly the best player in the draft because his position isn't as valuable as a OT, it's not like he's a guard.

JASONSAUTO
03-22-2010, 08:13 PM
Just showing some views that come from out of the Chiefs circle, I've never believed we'd take Berry personally, doesn't mean they won't but it doesn't really fit I'll say that.

but those views mean no more than otwp, dane, hamas, or any other random poster here right? thats what they are right???
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doomy3
03-22-2010, 08:14 PM
I think they should, but I'd rather be pleasantly surprised if they do than lose my mind at them doing something stupid.

I'll just prepare for stupid because I expect it with this regime. The fact of the matter though is how stupid they decide to be with it...

I personally don't think you should ever pass on the guy who's possibly the best player in the draft because his position isn't as valuable as a OT, it's not like he's a guard.

It doesn't seem like any of the people whose posts you are posting think that Berry is the best player in the draft.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 08:14 PM
No ones views mean anything if you want to go down that road since none of us are the GM, please tell me we aren't going to get into that stupid debate again.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 08:15 PM
It doesn't seem like any of the people whose posts you are posting think that Berry is the best player in the draft.

They're arguing his position isn't worth it, "a very good OT means more than a great safety" that acknowledges the safety is better but his position isn't as important.

Basically the argument is, Berry is a safety, you can't take a safety top 5 and taking a safety that high likely isn't inline with Pioli's personality.

And the money plays into it also.

CanadaKC
03-22-2010, 08:16 PM
It's increasingly obvious Gm's like Pioli are "over-thinking" the draft (see Cushing in Houston) and let their stupid egos get in the way of picking a player that can play football instinctively and with passion...instead opting for the safe building-block process which never works in free-agency anyways...sigh...another draft where we watch another pro-bowler slip through our fingers in the name of job security and system

Mecca
03-22-2010, 08:18 PM
Basically simply put Eric Berry is a very sexy style pick, he's a playmaking safety.

Do you think it's in Scott Pioli to use his top 5 pick on a safety and make him the highest paid safety in the game etc etc?

When everything he's said and done speaks to him taking a building block type fat body.

doomy3
03-22-2010, 08:20 PM
"The bottom line is you can get safeties on the open market or through trades. We have seen perfect examples of that this offseason. However, basically the only way to get a top offensive tackle is to draft one. That is why the Chiefs will pass on Berry at #5 and devote the mega resource that is the #5 overall pick to a premium position." --From Scott Wright himself...Doesn't sound like he thinks Berry is some kind of a once-in-a-generation safety.

"Bryan Bulaga is a prospect that many would take before Eric Berry? Rock at Left Tackle? Or playmaker at Safety?... Good luck finding a physical LT past the first round. I agree ILB/S may be worse situations, bigger holes, but they're also holes that can be addressed later on. I would bet OL for the Chiefs whether it be Okung, Bulaga, or Trent Williams."

"He has to be the perfect safety. I'm talking Eric Berry's talent with Mays' physical attributes. If that were the case, then I would take him, no questions asked.

However, that's not the case and if Okung and/or Bulaga are still on the board, then I'm taking either one of them, because it's the smarter choice, especially financially."

Mecca
03-22-2010, 08:22 PM
All of those arguments are about how LT is more important than safety because "it's easier to get a safety"

When you say you'd rather have a good OT than a great safety you're valuing position over player.

Smarter choice, OT's make more money than safeties, they're more acceptable top 5 picks, that's all that means.

CanadaKC
03-22-2010, 08:23 PM
all we are REALLY saying is this draft is going to suck...yet gain

Mecca
03-22-2010, 08:26 PM
all we are REALLY saying is this draft is going to suck...yet gain

Pretty much, it's going to be an offensive lineman, just prepare yourself, we may even trade down to make the pick but I fully expect meltdown when the Chiefs don't take Berry.

The Bad Guy
03-22-2010, 08:27 PM
You draft Bulaga, where are you playing Albert?

He's not a RT. No how, no way. He's not great at drive blocking, and he's never played on the right side in his life. He's also too light to play there.

You also aren't cutting Brian Waters or moving him to center.

The whole we are drafting a LT makes no sense to me whatsoever. We have a LT. He doesn't have a position if we move him out of LT.

CanadaKC
03-22-2010, 08:28 PM
great..and I get to go down to seattle and watch Curry and Berry bring the hawks a ring...

CanadaKC
03-22-2010, 08:29 PM
The seahags also need a OT..bad...but they won't be stupid enough to pass on Berry you can bet on that

The Bad Guy
03-22-2010, 08:30 PM
All of those arguments are about how LT is more important than safety because "it's easier to get a safety"

When you say you'd rather have a good OT than a great safety you're valuing position over player.

Smarter choice, OT's make more money than safeties, they're more acceptable top 5 picks, that's all that means.

It's not easier to get a really good playmaking safety.

That's why there are about 3 of them in the entire NFL.

LT's have been far easier to grab in recent years.

The problem is, people talk about the NFL like it's still 1999. The game has changed. Offenses are spreading people out, putting the QB in the gun a lot more than when the WC offense was dominant. The pressure to get a LT now is nowhere near where it has been.

Safeties are changing the game defensively. Without Darren Sharper all year, I have a lot of doubts that the Saints win a title.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 08:30 PM
You draft Bulaga, where are you playing Albert?

He's not a RT. No how, no way. He's not great at drive blocking, and he's never played on the right side in his life. He's also too light to play there.

You also aren't cutting Brian Waters or moving him to center.

The whole we are drafting a LT makes no sense to me whatsoever. We have a LT. He doesn't have a position if we move him out of LT.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Chiefs move Albert and if he's not good they just move on, he's not their guy, don't forget that.

I've always believed we wouldn't take Berry, I think the Chiefs would take Dan Williams before they took Berry.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 08:32 PM
It's not easier to get a really good playmaking safety.

That's why there are about 3 of them in the entire NFL.

LT's have been far easier to grab in recent years.

The problem is, people talk about the NFL like it's still 1999. The game has changed. Offenses are spreading people out, putting the QB in the gun a lot more than when the WC offense was dominant. The pressure to get a LT now is nowhere near where it has been.

Safeties are changing the game defensively. Without Darren Sharper all year, I have a lot of doubts that the Saints win a title.

I don't disagree with you but you'll be met with things like "Sharper is a great example a FA signing, when's the last time a team signed a LT in FA?"

Also the depth of the safety class of this years draft...how LT is a premium position and safety is not etc etc.

I don't think Pioli will take a safety that high, I just don't he strikes me as a build the lines guy.

doomy3
03-22-2010, 08:33 PM
You draft Bulaga, where are you playing Albert?

He's not a RT. No how, no way. He's not great at drive blocking, and he's never played on the right side in his life. He's also too light to play there.

You also aren't cutting Brian Waters or moving him to center.

The whole we are drafting a LT makes no sense to me whatsoever. We have a LT. He doesn't have a position if we move him out of LT.

I think in that scenario they would put Bulaga at RT to start out. Then, if Albert continues to struggle after this year, they plug him in at LG and put Bulaga at LT.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 08:38 PM
So you do that with the idea that this is Waters last year here...basically my thought is if you see the OT pick, the Chiefs don't believe Albert is the guy because they aren't paying someone that jack to be the RT.

doomy3
03-22-2010, 08:40 PM
So you do that with the idea that this is Waters last year here...basically my thought is if you see the OT pick, the Chiefs don't believe Albert is the guy because they aren't paying someone that jack to be the RT.

Yeah, I think this is Waters' last year, and I would imagine the Chiefs think he's close to being done as well. I think if they pick an OT, they are hedging their bet. I think if they drafted Bulaga, Okung, or Williams, they would start on the right side and Albert would be on the left. And, if that works, then you have your bookend tackles for the next 10 years. If Albert continues to struggle, you move him inside to the position he played in college and slide the tackle over, and then you have a dominant left side of the line. Worse things could happen than either of these scenarios.

The Bad Guy
03-22-2010, 08:41 PM
So you do that with the idea that this is Waters last year here...basically my thought is if you see the OT pick, the Chiefs don't believe Albert is the guy because they aren't paying someone that jack to be the RT.

If they take an LT, I absolutely believe that they think very little of Albert there.

I just don't believe he's going to sit basically an entire year and be a backup.

CanadaKC
03-22-2010, 08:41 PM
If Seattle takes Berry at #6 even though they have the same deep concerns as us about their offensive line...I think my head will explode

The Bad Guy
03-22-2010, 08:42 PM
I think in that scenario they would put Bulaga at RT to start out. Then, if Albert continues to struggle after this year, they plug him in at LG and put Bulaga at LT.

Would make me sick.

Deberg_1990
03-22-2010, 08:43 PM
Would make me sick.

Why?? They are improving an important area of the team right??

doomy3
03-22-2010, 08:45 PM
Would make me sick.

If Albert struggles again this year, would you prefer to use a top pick in next years' draft to replace him instead? Next year we would be taking an OT over playmaking WRs or a franchise QB, and not a safety.

Remember, I hope we draft Berry, but the amount of build-up on this board for him is a bit much. And if they draft a tackle, I can understand why. And I think it will certainly improve the team.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 08:46 PM
Why?? They are improving an important area of the team right??

Because we're rebuilding in the exact same image of a team that never won anything.

CanadaKC
03-22-2010, 08:46 PM
So why isn't seattle thinking along our lines then? they'll take berry in a heartbeat....they have a worse offensive line than we do...

The Bad Guy
03-22-2010, 08:47 PM
If Albert struggles again this year, would you prefer to use a top pick in next years' draft to replace him instead? Next year we would be taking an OT over playmaking WRs or a franchise QB, and not a safety.

Remember, I hope we draft Berry, but the amount of build-up on this board for him is a bit much. And if they draft a tackle, I can understand why. And I think it will certainly improve the team.

I'm of the opinion that he won't struggle and that drafting a RT with the 5th overall pick would make me sick.

I would perfer to find starting lineman in a round later than 1. I don't know why it has to be "if Albert sucks, we must address the position with our first pick."

I also don't think there's anyway in hell if we do draft Bulaga or Okung that they are playing RT for one minute.

doomy3
03-22-2010, 08:47 PM
So why isn't seattle thinking along our lines then? they'll take berry in a heartbeat....they have a worse offensive line than we do...

How the fuck do you know what Seattle is thinking?

CanadaKC
03-22-2010, 08:48 PM
cause I live in the pacific northwest
...I get seattle news all the time

Mecca
03-22-2010, 08:48 PM
If Albert struggles again this year, would you prefer to use a top pick in next years' draft to replace him instead? Next year we would be taking an OT over playmaking WRs or a franchise QB, and not a safety.

Remember, I hope we draft Berry, but the amount of build-up on this board for him is a bit much. And if they draft a tackle, I can understand why. And I think it will certainly improve the team.

I don't believe in using top 10 picks on offensive lineman, just me though.

The Bad Guy
03-22-2010, 08:48 PM
Why?? They are improving an important area of the team right??

Because I'm tired of the mentallity that you have to find a LT with a first rounder.

Albert improved last year. The guy is in his 2nd year. It's not like he's some seasoned vet with no room to improve here.

doomy3
03-22-2010, 08:48 PM
I'm of the opinion that he won't struggle and that drafting a RT with the 5th overall pick would make me sick.

I would perfer to find starting lineman in a round later than 1. I don't know why it has to be "if Albert sucks, we must address the position with our first pick."

I also don't think there's anyway in hell if we do draft Bulaga or Okung that they are playing RT for one minute.

Because that is typically where you find franchise LTs. That's kind of like saying I don't understand why people are saying, "If Cassel sucks, we must address the position with our first pick."

Mecca
03-22-2010, 08:49 PM
Seattle has 2 1st round picks and can easily take an OT at 14.

CanadaKC
03-22-2010, 08:49 PM
I tell you one thing...I'll take the seashawks LB's over any in the league...Lofa Tatupu, Leroy Hill, and Aaron Curry...:eek:

doomy3
03-22-2010, 08:49 PM
cause I live in the pacific northwest
...I get seattle news all the time

Oh, so the Seahawks have come out and let their draft plan known then. That's pretty cool of them.

doomy3
03-22-2010, 08:50 PM
Seattle has 2 1st round picks and can easily take an OT at 14.

Or, they could just as easily take Earl Thomas or Taylor Mays at 14 if we pass on the LT they want.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 08:50 PM
I'm sure Seattle will be thrilled if Berry falls into their laps because they can get the OT at their 2nd 1st rounder if they value it enough.

CanadaKC
03-22-2010, 08:53 PM
Actually...the Seattle sports radio stations are almost betting we'll pass on Berry...and they'll reap the rewards of a Berry-Trufant tandem.

Deberg_1990
03-22-2010, 08:54 PM
Albert improved last year.



He did? I thought he gave up the most sacks last year than any other LT?? Not trying to be an a$$......i could be wrong?

Mecca
03-22-2010, 08:55 PM
People have been wanting to move Albert since the day he was drafted, what is this obsession with the guy playing guard?

Was no one informed that guard is not a valuable position, hey Will Shields was really good know what it got us? Jack and shit.

DeezNutz
03-22-2010, 08:56 PM
Because that is typically where you find franchise LTs. That's kind of like saying I don't understand why people are saying, "If Cassel sucks, we must address the position with our first pick."

I don't know if there's one in this draft.

If there is, his name is probably Davis.

The Bad Guy
03-22-2010, 08:57 PM
Because that is typically where you find franchise LTs. That's kind of like saying I don't understand why people are saying, "If Cassel sucks, we must address the position with our first pick."

2009 playoff teams LT's and QBs

Indy- Charlie Johnson - 6th round, Peyton - First Round
Baltimore - Jared Gaither - 4th round supplemental, Flacco - First Round
New York Jets - D'Brick - First round, Sanchez- First Round
Patriots - Matt Light - 2nd round - Brady - 6th round
Cincinnati - Andrew Whitworth - 2nd round, Carson Palmer - First Round
Chargers - Marcus McNeill - 2nd round, Rivers - First round
New Orleans - Bushrod - 4th round, Brees- 2nd round
Eagles - Jason Peters - Undrafted, McNabb - First Round
Cardinals - Bridges - 6th round, Warner - Undrafted
Vikings - McKinnie - First round, Favre - 2nd round
Cowboys - Flozell Adams - 2nd round, Romo - Undrafted
Packers- Chad Clifton - 2nd round, Rodgers- First round

Sorry, 10 of 12 playoff teams built their lines with guys who weren't first round picks, but 7 of 12 had first round QBs.

It's pretty common to find a LT outside of the first round that can be a rock for years. It's not so common to find a franchise QB outside of the first round.

The Bad Guy
03-22-2010, 08:58 PM
He did? I thought he gave up the most sacks last year than any other LT?? Not trying to be an a$$......i could be wrong?

So you don't think he improved his play as the season went on?

Mecca
03-22-2010, 09:01 PM
Our team doesn't value QB's man, get with the program.

Deberg_1990
03-22-2010, 09:01 PM
So you don't think he improved his play as the season went on?

Honestly, i dont remember much of the last half of the season except for Charles....His run blocking obviously improved.

DeezNutz
03-22-2010, 09:01 PM
With 2 second-rounders just barely out of the first...

Deberg_1990
03-22-2010, 09:02 PM
Our team doesn't value QB's man, get with the program.

heh...Pioli probably thinks he can find another 6th round Hall of Famer..

Mecca
03-22-2010, 09:02 PM
Actually you know what the worst scenario is right?

The Chiefs front office in panic mode over the Cassel decision feeling heat if he doesn't produce, in a defensive heavy draft, drafts a bunch of offense to try to make Cassel look like a good move.

dirk digler
03-22-2010, 09:17 PM
They're all on the NFLDC forum the Chiefs have been a hot topic there lately...even Scott Wright chimed in with...

The bottom line is you can get safeties on the open market or through trades. We have seen perfect examples of that this offseason. However, basically the only way to get a top offensive tackle is to draft one. That is why the Chiefs will pass on Berry at #5 and devote the mega resource that is the #5 overall pick to a premium position.

The NFLDC forum makes for a nice read if you'd like some more outside views on what the Chiefs will do than coming from our bubble.

So Mecca are you saying now that we shouldn't draft Berry?

Douche Baggins
03-22-2010, 09:22 PM
Actually you know what the worst scenario is right?

The Chiefs front office in panic mode over the Cassel decision feeling heat if he doesn't produce, in a defensive heavy draft, drafts a bunch of offense to try to make Cassel look like a good move.

I don't think that will happen.

There's a new sheriff in town.


































http://www.montaraventures.com/pix/weis_ballerina.jpg

Deberg_1990
03-22-2010, 09:25 PM
So Mecca are you saying now that we shouldn't draft Berry?

I think hes just trying to say we have a GM who values building the lines: defense and offense over anything else.

Not neccessarily what he would do.

Marcellus
03-22-2010, 09:28 PM
I think hes just trying to say we have a GM who values building the lines: defense and offense over anything else.

Not neccessarily what he would do.

Considering how poor we are in both areas, it's hard to say that's a bad idea.

Saying that, I would love to draft Berry but I can see the other side.

RedThat
03-22-2010, 09:30 PM
I think hes just trying to say we have a GM who values building the lines: defense and offense over anything else.

Not neccessarily what he would do.

I admire any GM who values building the lines because Im along those sames lines of thought, I believe the game is won in the trenches. And I'm expecting to get ripped for saying that, but heck with what others think.

doomy3
03-22-2010, 09:31 PM
I'm just saying that if the people in charge of the decision don't know that Albert IS a franchise LT, and they want to hedge their bet and take a guy who could play either LT or RT, then I can understand it. It would give the team options. And if they see a huge dropoff between the top 3-4 OTs and the rest, then I can understand it. I think Berry is a stud, but I think there are several other safeties in this draft who could also be game changers.

As I've said all offseason, I really hope we take Berry, but I can understand if we take a more important position at this point in a rebuild as well. And, if it's between taking a LT in the first this year or next, I would prefer this year so we can take a WR or QB next year. Really, I hope we can trade back and get more picks since I think the real value of this draft is in the second round.

Deberg_1990
03-22-2010, 09:32 PM
Ill just say this:

Ive never seen a Super Bowl team with a bad O or D line.

dirk digler
03-22-2010, 09:32 PM
I think hes just trying to say we have a GM who values building the lines: defense and offense over anything else.

Not neccessarily what he would do.

Ok thanks. I hope the Chiefs pick Berry but I am not counting on it.

RedThat
03-22-2010, 09:33 PM
Considering how poor we are in both areas, it's hard to say that's a bad idea.

Saying that, I would love to draft Berry but I can see the other side.

Very tough Marcellus. Very tough to even have that bad thought crossing your mind if the Chiefs were to address both sides of the lines.

Douche Baggins
03-22-2010, 09:33 PM
Ill just say this:

Ive never seen a Super Bowl team with a bad O or D line.

Did you watch the Steelers win the 2008 Super Bowl?

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 09:33 PM
Oh, so the Seahawks have come out and let their draft plan known then. That's pretty cool of them.

I really think this notion is overrated.

Teams evaluate players for years on end. The scouts prepare the reports and the head coach and GM decides who they want.

I don't think it's any big secret that teams like the Chiefs and Seahawks need talent at nearly every position. And with the rookie contracts as they are today, if you're trading up from a lower spot into the Top Ten, you'd better be right about your selection because if you're not, you're shelling out $50 milllion for a bust, along with giving up valuable draft choices.

I do think that things will change with the new CBA and a rookie salary cap in place. If that comes to fruition, it'll change the entire dynamic of the draft and should be very compelling.

Until then, the first round will remain extremely predictable.

Marcellus
03-22-2010, 09:36 PM
Very tough Marcellus. Very tough to even have that bad thought crossing your mind if the Chiefs were to address both sides of the lines.

I was just watching Path To The Draft on NFL network and it seems this class is fairly heavy at 3-4 NT type players so I could see OL in 1st round (which I really don't like I want Berry) and NT in the 2nd.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 09:37 PM
I've never seen a Superbowl team without any playmakers.

BossChief
03-22-2010, 09:39 PM
Did you watch the Steelers win the 2008 Super Bowl?

or the Colts last year

tyler360
03-22-2010, 09:40 PM
It is a true shame that Berry is probably not even being considered.

He is a true talent that should change this whole defense.

People like that are well worth any Top 5 pick.

Deberg_1990
03-22-2010, 09:40 PM
I've never seen a Superbowl team without any playmakers.


Lets face it, almost any pick would help improve this team....Rome wasnt built in a day.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 09:41 PM
You'd think Chiefs fans above all would get this, we had a great OL and got nothin, we had a great defense with no playmakers and got nothin...

Mecca
03-22-2010, 09:41 PM
Lets face it, almost any pick would help improve this team....Rome wasnt built in a day.

That is not how you look at things, you should get rare things in the top 5 that you won't get once you are picking say 20th.

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 09:42 PM
Lets face it, almost any pick would help improve this team....Rome wasnt built in a day.

Child please.

A left tackle would be a waste. A running back would be a waste. A center, left guard and right guard would be a waste.

PLAYMAKERS win football games. The Chiefs are SORELY lacking in that department, thus need PLAYMAKERS.

:shake:

RedThat
03-22-2010, 09:44 PM
I've never seen a Superbowl team without any playmakers.

I haven't seen very many superbowl teams without both solid offensive and defensive lines either.

Deberg_1990
03-22-2010, 09:45 PM
hey i agree with u guys.....im just not going to be mad if its not Berry. We all know what they are going to do...try to protect their $$$$ Cassel.

RedThat
03-22-2010, 09:45 PM
You'd think Chiefs fans above all would get this, we had a great OL and got nothin, we had a great defense with no playmakers and got nothin...

Uh I got it...The Chiefs teams that haven't won weren't very well balanced.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 09:46 PM
It doesn't matter anyway as long as this team runs Matt Cassel out there we won't be winning shit.

dirk digler
03-22-2010, 09:46 PM
You'd think Chiefs fans above all would get this, we had a great OL and got nothin, we had a great defense with no playmakers and got nothin...

DT was the ultimate playmaker. Dale Carter, Hasty, and Neil Smith were good playmakers for us as well.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 09:46 PM
Uh I got it...The Chiefs teams that haven't won weren't very well balanced.

Yea because like this current one they all thought they could win without the guy under center or playmakers on the outside.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 09:47 PM
DT was the ultimate playmaker. Dale Carter, Hasty, and Neil Smith were good playmakers for us as well.

And the desire to not have a QB killed that team, yet half our fan base still fears the idea of getting one.

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 09:47 PM
I haven't seen very many superbowl teams without both solid offensive and defensive lines either.

Huh?

How about Steelers line from 2008? Hell, even the Cardinals line from 2008. Who on either line, let alone multiple players, are anything other than average?

:shake:

RedThat
03-22-2010, 09:48 PM
Child please.

A left tackle would be a waste. A running back would be a waste. A center, left guard and right guard would be a waste.

PLAYMAKERS win football games. The Chiefs are SORELY lacking in that department, thus need PLAYMAKERS.

:shake:

You need everything to win. EVERYTHING!

Don't feed this waste bs nonsense because the Chiefs could use help in some of the areas you specifically mentioned.

Marcellus
03-22-2010, 09:48 PM
You'd think Chiefs fans above all would get this, we had a great OL and got nothin, we had a great defense with no playmakers and got nothin...


Have we ever had both?

A great defense without play makers? That's a dumbass statement. No DT wasn't a play maker he is just in the HOF.

We have had play makers. Priest Holmes, TG, DT, N. Smith, D. Carter etc...
Arguably Priest was the best RB in the league at one time. TG obviously the best. DT, yea the best. Oh don't forget Jerrad Allen. We had Green at QB throwing TD's to Kennison and TG.

You need both to be respectable.

It's not as simple as you make it. You have to have both at a level where the compliment each other.

We had one or the other.

dirk digler
03-22-2010, 09:48 PM
And the desire to not have a QB killed that team, yet half our fan base still fears the idea of getting one.

I was just responding to your post that our great D didn't have any playmakers. It was filled with playmakers but we had Marty as a coach and no franchise QB unless you count sitting Gannon.

RedThat
03-22-2010, 09:51 PM
Huh?

How about Steelers line from 2008? Hell, even the Cardinals line from 2008. Who on either line, let alone multiple players, are anything other than average?

:shake:

Note, I said I haven't seen very many.

Douche Baggins
03-22-2010, 09:51 PM
Child please.


DANE IS BLACK!

Mecca
03-22-2010, 09:52 PM
I didn't say the D had no playmakers atleast that wasn't what that was suppose to mean.

The team had no QB and nothing to speak of on the outside and it was why they couldn't win in the playoffs. Then you move to Vermiels team who frankly couldn't draft and had no idea how to bring in any defensive players.

But above all else as long as was we are content to trot out ok QB's at best we are doomed to lose to the teams that have great ones.

If you run through the league very very few teams have invested a ton of high picks into their OL, actually the teams that do that usually pick in the 20's if the Chiefs take a OT 5 I believe they'd be the only team that had invested 2 top 15 picks in their OL.

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 09:53 PM
Note, I said I haven't seen very many.

I have.

A team doesn't need five Pro Bowlers on the line. As a matter of fact, if a team has five Pro Bowlers on the line, that usually indicates that they've spent too many draft choices in a non-impact position, thus robbing their team of talent on the perimeter and most imporantly, the QB position.

Sound familiar?

Marcellus
03-22-2010, 09:53 PM
Note, I said I haven't seen very many.

The Cardinals had mucho crazy talent at QB and WR. They scored points because they had a great QB and 3 excellent receivers.

Kind of like the old Dolphins. Exception to the rule.

Marcellus
03-22-2010, 09:54 PM
I have.

A team doesn't need five Pro Bowlers on the line. As a matter of fact, if a team has five Pro Bowlers on the line, that usually indicates that they've spent too many draft choices in a non-impact position, thus robbing their team of talent on the perimeter and most imporantly, the QB position.

Sound familiar?

Yea Trent Green was holding KC back.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 09:55 PM
I get valuing line play but this fan base seems to think you need a shit ton of offensive linemen to even compete, just reference that poll on the Chiefs site.

milkman
03-22-2010, 09:55 PM
I'm sure it's already been shown that Peter King is disingeuous piece of shit citing the games missed numbers.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 09:56 PM
Yea Trent Green was holding KC back.

For all of his pretty numbers Trent Green was about as non clutch as a QB could be and he required all of that personnel because if he got pressured right away he got killed....

If he had a quicker release the Chiefs could have spent some of that OL money in other places possibly giving them a better team so...or maybe you know getting a legit WR.

RedThat
03-22-2010, 09:56 PM
Yea because like this current one they all thought they could win without the guy under center or playmakers on the outside.

Im sure they know they lack playmakers and they'll do their best to add them in the future. It's a work in progress give it time.

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 09:56 PM
Yea Trent Green was holding KC back.

Is that what I said?

Because, I don't think that's what I said.

Deberg_1990
03-22-2010, 09:56 PM
DANE IS BLACK!

Nah....hes “Cablinasian” like Tiger Woods. :)

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 09:58 PM
Im sure they know they lack playmakers and they'll do their best to add them in the future. It's a work in progress give it time.

Really?

If you know they're "sure", then why did they avoid taking ANY in last year's draft?

Mecca
03-22-2010, 09:59 PM
Im sure they know they lack playmakers and they'll do their best to add them in the future. It's a work in progress give it time.

We've been waiting for a QB and playmakers on the outside for 20+ years...

Deberg_1990
03-22-2010, 10:00 PM
Really?

If you know they're "sure", then why did they avoid taking ANY in last year's draft?



keep doubtin Succop.. :)

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 10:01 PM
keep doubtin Succop.. :)

Fans of this franchise overvalue kickers.

:shake:

Marcellus
03-22-2010, 10:02 PM
Is that what I said?

Because, I don't think that's what I said.

Nope but you said a QB was the missing ingredient. It wasn't for about 4 years it was defense. Period.

Prior to that it was a QB or offense.

Marcellus
03-22-2010, 10:02 PM
Fans of this franchise overvalue kickers.

:shake:

Not in 1997.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 10:02 PM
Fans of this franchise overvalue kickers.

:shake:

Just like TE's and offensive lineman, lets relive the glory days of losing in the playoffs!

RedThat
03-22-2010, 10:03 PM
I have.

A team doesn't need five Pro Bowlers on the line. As a matter of fact, if a team has five Pro Bowlers on the line, that usually indicates that they've spent too many draft choices in a non-impact position, thus robbing their team of talent on the perimeter and most imporantly, the QB position.

Sound familiar?

I never said superbowl teams needed five probowlers on a line, did I?

What superbowl teams do have on the lines are legit starters. Solid offensive and defensive lines don't have to have probowlers at every position on the line. What they do need however is great cohesion and chemistry as a unit. That's the most important amongst anything. Chiefs lack both.

*In my mind, there is no such thing as a non-impact position. Every position is important.

Douche Baggins
03-22-2010, 10:03 PM
Is that what I said?

Because, I don't think that's what I said.

Graphical representation of this post:


http://www.assimquefas.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/fuuuuuuu.png

Mecca
03-22-2010, 10:04 PM
I never said superbowl teams needed five probowlers on a line, did I?

What superbowl teams do have on the lines are legit starters. Solid offensive and defensive lines don't have to have probowlers at every position on the line. What they do need however is great cohesion and chemistry as a unit. That's the most important amongst anything. Chiefs lack both.

*In my mind, there is no such thing as a non-impact position. Every position is important.

Oh so you understand that the Chiefs offensive line is not in desperate need of dropping a top 5 pick on.

dirk digler
03-22-2010, 10:05 PM
For all of his pretty numbers Trent Green was about as non clutch as a QB could be and he required all of that personnel because if he got pressured right away he got killed....

If he had a quicker release the Chiefs could have spent some of that OL money in other places possibly giving them a better team so...or maybe you know getting a legit WR.

It wasn't about him having a quicker release the routes the WR's ran were more intermediate which take a little longer to develop. Plus we didn't have the fastest pair of WR's in the NFL.

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 10:07 PM
Nope but you said a QB was the missing ingredient. It wasn't for about 4 years it was defense. Period.

Prior to that it was a QB or offense.

Huh?

I have.

A team doesn't need five Pro Bowlers on the line. As a matter of fact, if a team has five Pro Bowlers on the line, that usually indicates that they've spent too many draft choices in a non-impact position, thus robbing their team of talent on the perimeter and most imporantly, the QB position.

Sound familiar?

Please explain how that quote says "Trent Green".

It was generalization.

If a team spends it's top draft choices on offensive line, they're typically ignoring the WR, CB, and most importantly, the QB position.

The Chiefs haven't drafted a first round QB in nearly 30 years. At least Schaaf and Steadman moved on quickly after Fuller (1979) and drafted Blackledge in 1983.

Since then, they've had two playoff wins in nearly 30 years.

Again, Trent Green? Wha?

RedThat
03-22-2010, 10:07 PM
Really?

If you know they're "sure", then why did they avoid taking ANY in last year's draft?

I don't know?

But what I do know is, the team lacked both playmakers and lineman ( blue collared guys).

Maybe that was the area Pioli and co were focusing on first? Im sure they know they need playmakers but lets not forget the team was mess when they took over and they couldn't address everything overnight.

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 10:08 PM
Not in 1997.

Excuse me?

The Chiefs gave up a fifth round pick for Stoyanovich.

As I recall, he pulled out a few game winners during his tenure, despite his weak leg.

If you're referring to 1995, then I sort of understand your point.

But either way, if you're relying on your kicker to consistently win your football games, you don't have a very good football team.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 10:10 PM
Yea they also follow a very good 2008 draft class and proceeded to shit the bed with their offseason and on top of that shoehorned in a new defensive scheme.

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 10:11 PM
I never said superbowl teams needed five probowlers on a line, did I?

What superbowl teams do have on the lines are legit starters. Solid offensive and defensive lines don't have to have probowlers at every position on the line. What they do need however is great cohesion and chemistry as a unit. That's the most important amongst anything. Chiefs lack both.

*In my mind, there is no such thing as a non-impact position. Every position is important.

First off, the Cardinals hardly have Pro Bowlers at every position but what they did have was a HOF QB, a HOF WR and two very good complimentary WR's.

Their defense was fairly porous, yet the offense was so potent, it didn't matter.

PLAYMAKERS are who wins games, not offensive and defensive lines in a 3-4.

dirk digler
03-22-2010, 10:12 PM
Not in 1997.

Should have said 1995

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 10:13 PM
I don't know?

But what I do know is, the team lacked both playmakers and lineman ( blue collared guys).

Maybe that was the area Pioli and co were focusing on first? Im sure they know they need playmakers but lets not forget the team was mess when they took over and they couldn't address everything overnight.

So who were the offensive lineman added in the draft that were so essential in 2009?

TyJack and Magee will NEVER be anything other than average. Peeholi could have taken Louis Murphy in the fourth and solved a WR spot for years and Sullivan in the 6th to solve the center position for years.

Instead, he chose a shitty CB and a shitty receiver that bounced to and from the practice squad all year.

Playmakers? Contributors?

Hardly.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 10:14 PM
So someone tell me, if the Chiefs take an OT 5th I'm pretty sure they'll be the only team in the league that has 2 top 15 selections on their line that they actually used the selections on..

Do you feel this is ok?

RedThat
03-22-2010, 10:17 PM
First off, the Cardinals hardly have Pro Bowlers at every position but what they did have was a HOF QB, a HOF WR and two very good complimentary WR's.

Their defense was fairly porous, yet the offense was so potent, it didn't matter.

PLAYMAKERS are who wins games, not offensive and defensive lines in a 3-4.

They change the impact of a game.

It's easy to say playmakers because the "eye" can notice them more, but the "eye" doesn't notice lineman as much.

But I still think the lineman contribute to winning games and are equally as important as playmakers. Im a believer in balance. I think balance is key to success in any sport, the teams that are the most sound are the teams that are usually tough to stop.

RedThat
03-22-2010, 10:19 PM
So someone tell me, if the Chiefs take an OT 5th I'm pretty sure they'll be the only team in the league that has 2 top 15 selections on their line that they actually used the selections on..

Do you feel this is ok?

if it betters the team, why not?

BossChief
03-22-2010, 10:20 PM
if it betters the team, why not?

ummmm because it doesn't if you have the big picture in mind

Mecca
03-22-2010, 10:21 PM
I'm going to give up trying, by that rationale since anything will improve this shit brick team any pick is ok.

dirk digler
03-22-2010, 10:23 PM
So someone tell me, if the Chiefs take an OT 5th I'm pretty sure they'll be the only team in the league that has 2 top 15 selections on their line that they actually used the selections on..

Do you feel this is ok?

I guess it depends on who is gone when it comes to their selection.

RedThat
03-22-2010, 10:23 PM
So who were the offensive lineman added in the draft that were so essential in 2009?

TyJack and Magee will NEVER be anything other than average. Peeholi could have taken Louis Murphy in the fourth and solved a WR spot for years and Sullivan in the 6th to solve the center position for years.

Instead, he chose a shitty CB and a shitty receiver that bounced to and from the practice squad all year.

Playmakers? Contributors?

Hardly.

Give it time. It usually take 2-3 years before you can make serious judgement on an overall draft from a team.

The Offensive lineman that they took in 2009 was Colin Brown. Oh pardon me, but weren't you the guy that had a boner for Colin Brown? Praising his play in the preseason till he got placed on the IR. I think he could be a good guard in the league if given a shot.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 10:24 PM
I guess it depends on who is gone when it comes to their selection.

Considering it's the 5th pick you're gonna have a really hard time justifying an OL pick because someone will be there...

dirk digler
03-22-2010, 10:26 PM
Considering it's the 5th pick you're gonna have a really hard time justifying an OL pick because someone will be there...

Well if Clausen and Berry is gone who do you take, OL or McClain?