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Mr. Laz
03-22-2010, 11:53 AM
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</td><td nowrap="true">By Pat Kirwan | NFL.com
Senior Analyst
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ORLANDO, Fla. -- There's nothing like getting to talk with a few coaches and personnel people at the owners meetings to get a better feel for the draft. Sunday night, before I finished up this process, I got to speak with more than a dozen of the key people running their team's draft. The team decision-makers aren't going to tell me (nor would I ask) who they are taking in the April selection process -- even if they knew for sure at this point. But they will talk about how much they like or dislike certain players.

A typical response when I ask about a certain player would be, "We don't even have a first-round grade on the guy," or "You missed on a few guys we really like." Hear that comment from three or four different people and it is grounds for an adjustment in the mock draft.

Plenty has changed in one week. We saw a GM with two first-round picks (San Francisco's Scot McCloughan) leave his job this week. A couple of pro days have changed the boards since last week's mock. For example, Florida linebacker Brandon Spikes certainly didn't help himself with his 5.05 40 time. Free-agent signings and trades slowed down a bit this past week but the addition of DE Darryl Tapp (http://www.nfl.com/players/darryltapp/profile?id=TAP504282) in Philadelphia and the loss of Tapp in Seattle had to affect the next mock draft. The Charlie Whitehurst (http://www.nfl.com/players/charliewhitehurst/profile?id=WHI646241) trade shed some more light on what Seattle's first-round intentions are with two picks. Joey Porter (http://www.nfl.com/players/joeyporter/profile?id=POR135132) getting paid in Arizona could mean the Cardinals are headed in a different direction at the bottom of round one. Most of the volatility in this draft rehearsal took place with the defensive linemen, excluding the selections of top picks Ndamukong Suh and Gerald McCoy.

Two players dropped out of the first round, Nate Allen and Charles Brown. They are replaced by two who had been in earlier versions, Anthony Davis and Devon McCourty. As for the selections for each team, keep in mind one or two decisions that change in the top 10 picks can have a big ripple effect all the way through the round -- and so 17 players are in different spots this week. That may sound like a lot, but until we get closer to April 22, it is a reality.

1. St. Louis Rams (http://www.nfl.com/teams/st.louisrams/profile?team=STL)
Sam Bradford, QB Oklahoma

I'm more convinced than ever that Bradford is the pick for the Rams and they may not even entertain offers to move out of the spot. Look at the quarterbacks in the NFC West; it wouldn't be long before the Rams have the best one. (Previous pick: Bradford)

2. Detroit Lions (http://www.nfl.com/teams/detroitlions/profile?team=DET)
Ndamakong Suh, DT, Nebraska

Suh remains in this spot for the fourth mock draft in a row but for the first time I get a sense that it's not a lock. There are other good defensive tackles in this draft and there may be some consideration here for offensive tackle Russell Okung. (Previous pick: Suh)

3. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/tampabaybuccaneers/profile?team=TB)
Gerald McCoy, DT, Oklahoma

McCoy is a fit in the 4-3 defense that the Bucs run, but again there are some other solid defensive tackles if the Bucs decide to move down or go elsewhere at this spot. Tampa can't go wrong with McCoy but what would they do if Suh is on the board? (Previous pick: McCoy)

4. Washington Redskins (http://www.nfl.com/teams/washingtonredskins/profile?team=WAS)
Russell Okung, OT, Oklahoma State

Jimmy Clausen was in this spot last week, but that was met with some resistance when I walked into the hotel where the owners are staying for the NFL Annual Meeting. The Redskins plug in the left tackle just like Mike Shanahan plugged in Ryan Clady (http://www.nfl.com/players/ryanclady/profile?id=CLA031385) in Denver. They will be pressed to get a QB in the second round with no third-round selection. Is their second-round pick a landing spot for Colt McCoy? (Previous pick: Jimmy Clausen)

5. Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.nfl.com/teams/kansascitychiefs/profile?team=KC)
Bryan Bulaga, OT, Iowa

With Okung having very little to no chance of falling to the Chiefs now, Scott Pioli will grab a very solid tackle who is NFL ready. Not a flashy pick but a building block type guy. (Previous pick: Russell Okung)

6. Seattle Seahawks (http://www.nfl.com/teams/seattleseahawks/profile?team=SEA)
C.J. Spiller, RB, Clemson

A few people feel I have Spiller to high in the draft but this guy can play right away and can handle 20 touches a game as a runner, receiver, and returner. The Charlie Whitehurst trade takes them out of the first-round QB business. (Previous pick: Spiller)

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7. Cleveland Browns (http://www.nfl.com/teams/clevelandbrowns/profile?team=CLE)
Eric Berry, S, Tennessee

Cleveland locked up their first two quarterbacks with the signing of Jake Delhomme (http://www.nfl.com/players/jakedelhomme/profile?id=DEL367367) and the trade for Seneca Wallace (http://www.nfl.com/players/senecawallace/profile?id=WAL501121). They grab a QB like Tony Pike or Dan LeFevour later in the draft. Berry is a plug-in starter for a team that signed a right tackle, tight end, running back and linebacker during free agency. (Previous pick: Berry)

8. Oakland Raiders (http://www.nfl.com/teams/oaklandraiders/profile?team=OAK)
Anthony Davis, OT, Rutgers

Davis gets mixed reviews from the offensive line coaches around the league. The coaches I talked with say he's a first-round selection but more on potential than readiness to play. Risky picks have never scared Al Davis before, so here they go again. (Previous pick: Bryan Bulaga)

9. Buffalo Bills (http://www.nfl.com/teams/buffalobills/profile?team=BUF)
Jimmy Clausen, QB, Notre Dame

The Bills have lots of needs and QB is one of them. Clausen threw 28 touchdowns to just four picks last year and has escape skills that he will need in Buffalo. Chan Gailey is an excellent QB guy and will get him ready fairly quickly. Lots of fans don't want to see another California QB in Buffalo, where the weather is a factor. (Previous pick: Dan Williams)

10. Jacksonville Jaguars (http://www.nfl.com/teams/jacksonvillejaguars/profile?team=JAC)
Demaryius Thomas, WR, Georgia Tech

Earl Thomas has been in this slot for a few weeks, but he is dropping slightly in the minds of some people and this Thomas is moving up. So for now, the Jags switch Thomases. I could see Rolando McClain as the next guy in this spot as people continue to talk about his versatility. (Previous pick: Earl Thomas)

11. Denver Broncos (http://www.nfl.com/teams/denverbroncos/profile?team=DEN)
Rolando McClain, ILB, Alabama

The Broncos bought a new defensive line in free agency and can now focus on the big inside linebacker to play on the strongside. McClain is a perfect fit and the inside linebacker class for the 3-4 teams is lean. (Previous pick: McClain)

12. Miami Dolphins (http://www.nfl.com/teams/miamidolphins/profile?team=MIA)
Sergio Kindle, OLB, Texas

Sure the Dolphins could use a nose tackle but they also need a special OLB to rush the passer. Bill Parcells has drafted DeMarcus Ware (http://www.nfl.com/players/demarcusware/profile?id=WAR350675), Lawrence Taylor and Carl Banks to name a few for his 3-4 defense. Hard to resist a guy that made 57 plays behind the line of scrimmage. (Previous pick: Kindle)

13. San Francisco 49ers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/sanfrancisco49ers/profile?team=SF)
Trent Williams, OT, Oklahoma

Williams was the pick last week but with GM Scot McCloughan out in San Francisco and Mike Singletary having more influence on the draft, draft philosophy could change. The Niners need a right tackle and he's the best one left on the board. (Previous pick: Williams)
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14. Seattle Seahawks
Derrick Morgan, DE, Georgia Tech

The Seahawks may take the defensive end with the No. 6 pick, but if they stay in this order Morgan makes sense for a team that just traded away Darryl Tapp and isn't sure if Patrick Kerney (http://www.nfl.com/players/patrickkerney/profile?id=KER459393) is coming back to play. Morgan had 12.5 sacks and 18.5 tackles for a loss last year in 14 games. (Previous pick: Demaryius Thomas)

15. New York Giants (http://www.nfl.com/teams/newyorkgiants/profile?team=NYG)
Sean Weatherspoon, LB, Missouri

Some think I have Weatherspoon too high in the draft but I had one coach Sunday tell me he's not high enough. We'll see what the truth is in a month. For now, after watching his game tapes and practices, I will tell you that this versatile athlete can play any of the linebacker spots -- and the Giants have multiple openings. A 239-pound guy that is very smart, runs 4.6, had 400 tackles and squats 770. (Previous pick: Weatherspoon)

16. Tennessee Titans (http://www.nfl.com/teams/tennesseetitans/profile?team=TEN)
Jason Pierre-Paul, DE, South Florida

The Seahawks' trade of Tapp could force Seattle to take a defensive end and that should affect the Titans two picks later. Pierre-Paul is rich on potential and physical attributes but raw on experience and production. The Titans have a great defensive line coach and he will get the most out of Pierre-Paul, who will be asked to replace Kyle Vanden Bosch (http://www.nfl.com/players/kylevandenbosch/profile?id=VAN378810). (Previous pick: Derrick Morgan)

17. San Francisco 49ers
Joe Haden, CB, Florida

The Niners saw the improved speed at Haden's pro day and they need a corner. One astute personnel director said, "I love Joe, but he was mostly a boundary corner in college and I'd be careful." (Previous pick: Haden)

18. Pittsburgh Steelers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/pittsburghsteelers/profile?team=PIT)
Kyle Wilson, CB, Boise State

The Steelers have other needs, but they need a corner now. They lost Bryant McFadden (http://www.nfl.com/players/bryantmcfadden/profile?id=MCF082537) last year in free agency and the other corners are either old or inconsistent. The Ravens and the Bengals are both building up their receiver position. (Previous pick: Wilson)

19. Atlanta Falcons (http://www.nfl.com/teams/atlantafalcons/profile?team=ATL)
Brandon Graham, OLB/DE, Michigan

The signing of Dunta Robinson (http://www.nfl.com/players/duntarobinson/profile?id=ROB407958) took care of the cornerback situation and now the Falcons turn their interest to the rest of the defense. There are solid defensive tackles on the board like Dan Williams and Brian Price, but Graham gives them a hybrid OLB/DE to rush the passer and eventually replace John Abraham (http://www.nfl.com/players/johnabraham/profile?id=ABR073003). Graham made 85 plays behind the line of scrimmage in college. (Previous pick: Graham)

20. Houston Texans (http://www.nfl.com/teams/houstontexans/profile?team=HOU)
Dan Williams, DT, Tennessee

It wouldn't surprise me if the Texans take a corner here, but Williams could slide to them and that would solidify their defensive line which will make any secondary look better. (Previous pick: Brian Price)

Mr. Laz
03-22-2010, 11:53 AM
21. Cincinnati Bengals (http://www.nfl.com/teams/cincinnatibengals/profile?team=CIN)
Taylor Mays, S, USC

The Bengals may have Earl Thomas and Carlos Dunlap on the board to choose from and some would say Mays should be lower in the draft. The truth is the Bengals will get better on defense at this spot no matter what they do. Mays will impress the coaches with his knowledge of the game, and his dedication is unquestioned.
(Previous pick: Jason Pierre-Paul)

22. New England Patriots (http://www.nfl.com/teams/newenglandpatriots/profile?team=NE)
Jared Odrick, DT/DE, Penn State

Odrick solves a glaring need on the defensive line with the loss of Richard Seymour (http://www.nfl.com/players/richardseymour/profile?id=SEY682400) and Jarvis Green (http://www.nfl.com/players/jarvisgreen/profile?id=GRE251964). Odrick is versatile and can line up at DE or DT. (Previous pick: Odrick)

23. Green Bay Packers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/greenbaypackers/profile?team=GB)
Maurkice Pouncey, C/G, Florida

Pouncey is a day one starter at guard or center. Two line coaches confirmed what I saw on tape about his first-round grade even though few guards or centers go in the opening round. (Previous pick: Mike Iupati)

24. Philadelphia Eagles (http://www.nfl.com/teams/philadelphiaeagles/profile?team=PHI)
Mike Iupati, G/T, Idaho

Iupati is a day one starter at guard and a potential answer at tackle down the road. The Eagles are building a very young offense right now and Mike is a 10-year answer on the line -- especially after the release of Shawn Andrews (http://www.nfl.com/players/shawnandrews/profile?id=AND725489). (Previous pick: Everson Griffen)

25. Baltimore Ravens (http://www.nfl.com/teams/baltimoreravens/profile?team=BAL)
Carlos Dunlap, DE, Florida

He has some maturity issues, but the Ray Lewis (http://www.nfl.com/players/raylewis/profile?id=LEW562347) influence will take care of that if he wants to get on the field in Baltimore. The facts are the Ravens lost starting DEs Dwan Edwards (http://www.nfl.com/players/dwanedwards/profile?id=EDW667014) and Justin Bannan (http://www.nfl.com/players/justinbannan/profile?id=BAN699243) in free agency, Trevor Pryce (http://www.nfl.com/players/trevorpryce/profile?id=PRY103822) is long in the tooth and this 6-foot-6, 277-pound guy that ran 4.61 at his pro day fits a need. (Previous pick: Patrick Robinson)

26. Arizona Cardinals (http://www.nfl.com/teams/arizonacardinals/profile?team=ARI)
Brian Price, DT, UCLA

Price looks like a great fit in a 4-3 defense and the Cardinals play a 3-4 defense -- but he can be a disruptive nose tackle. Bryan Robinson is still out of contract and the team just gave significant money to OLB Joey Porter, otherwise I might have Ricky Sapp in this spot. I would really like to see them take a tight end like Jermaine Gresham if he were available. (Previous pick: Charles Brown)

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27. Dallas Cowboys (http://www.nfl.com/teams/dallascowboys/profile?team=DAL)
Earl Thomas, DB, Texas

This is a big slide for Thomas, whom I had going at No. 10 to Jacksonville last week. He may go higher than this spot, but if he's here he solves a problem in the Dallas secondary. Thomas is a fine player (but not without his critics here at the owners meetings. (Previous pick: Nate Allen)
28. San Diego Chargers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/sandiegochargers/profile?team=SD)
Ryan Mathews, RB, Fresno State

I talked with Mathews this week and he told me he wore No. 21 in college because he idolized LaDainian Tomlinson (http://www.nfl.com/players/ladainiantomlinson/profile?id=TOM683150) growing up in California. He winds up in this spot every week and as long as a team like Houston doesn't take him earlier he would be a solid fit for the Chargers. He had 1,800 yards as a senior. (Previous pick: Mathews)
29. New York Jets (http://www.nfl.com/teams/newyorkjets/profile?team=NYJ)
Dez Bryant, WR, Oklahoma State

He's too good to pass up this late in the first round. He pairs up with Braylon Edwards (http://www.nfl.com/players/braylonedwards/profile?id=EDW127548) and Jerricho Cotchery (http://www.nfl.com/players/jerrichocotchery/profile?id=COT027891) to give Sanchez lots of targets. Head coach Rex Ryan can handle whatever personality quirks come with Bryant. (Previous pick: Bryant)
30. Minnesota Vikings (http://www.nfl.com/teams/minnesotavikings/profile?team=MIN)
Patrick Robinson, CB, Florida State

The Vikings re-signed Jimmy Kennedy for depth at defensive tackle and there have been five drafted already, so they head to their biggest need, a corner. They could look at Robinson or Devin McCourty from Rutgers and not go wrong. (Previous pick: Taylor Mays)
31. Indianapolis Colts (http://www.nfl.com/teams/indianapoliscolts/profile?team=IND)
Devin McCourty, CB, Rutgers

Center Maurkice Pouncey has been in this spot for three weeks but other teams ahead of the Colts value him now, according to the line coaches. Corner is a need and McCourty has been rising up draft boards. (Previous pick: Maurkice Pouncey)
32. New Orleans Saints (http://www.nfl.com/teams/neworleanssaints/profile?team=NO)
Everson Griffen, DE, USC

Gone is Charles Grant (http://www.nfl.com/players/charlesgrant/profile?id=GRA397750) after being released. Carlos Dunlap was in this spot last week but is moving up draft boards. Griffen is a solid choice at the end of the round. (Previous pick: Carlos Dunlap)

Dayze
03-22-2010, 11:55 AM
I have a feeling this will be one of the most undewelming drafts to wach.
....last year was awful.


Combined with a Thursday night time slot.
ehh.

Hopefully I'll find some other side-stories to keep me interested. Chiefs going OL is about as boring and predictable as....well, the Chiefs.

Detoxing
03-22-2010, 11:57 AM
Ima go shoot myself. All of these mock drafts are so depressing. Mainly because they're right. Pioli will take Bulaga. everyone knows it.

When they do draft Bulaga.....That O-line better be Tits...and Matt Cassel better turn into Trent Green 2.0 real fucking quick.

L.A. Chieffan
03-22-2010, 12:07 PM
awesome

ChiTown
03-22-2010, 12:10 PM
Interesting. I can certainly see this happening. Not sexy at #5, but certainly could be an effective pick.

keg in kc
03-22-2010, 12:16 PM
Shoot me now.

I stand by my theory that this is all a grand conspiracy to condition us for the Okung pick.

That way when it happens, we all think "phew! it wasn't Bulaga".

Dicky McElephant
03-22-2010, 12:19 PM
Ima go shoot myself. All of these mock drafts are so depressing. Mainly because they're right. Pioli will take Bulaga. everyone knows it.

When they do draft Bulaga.....That O-line better be Tits...and Matt Cassel better turn into Peyton Manning 2.0 real fucking quick.

FYP

Fat Elvis
03-22-2010, 12:21 PM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/images/photos/000/841/906/97550122_cropped.jpg?1269025871

This is your future KC.

tyton75
03-22-2010, 12:32 PM
I wouldn't be PISSED with Bulaga....don't like taking another OT this high, but we do NEED another OT

L.A. Chieffan
03-22-2010, 12:33 PM
i guess we should just cut albert. not piolis fault, he didnt draft that loser

Pitt Gorilla
03-22-2010, 12:35 PM
Shoot me now.

I stand by my theory that this is all a grand conspiracy to condition us for the Okung pick.

That way when it happens, we all think "phew! it wasn't Bulaga".This would be a terrible pick. Trade the f down if this is all we're going to do.

keg in kc
03-22-2010, 12:38 PM
I wouldn't be PISSED with Bulaga....don't like taking another OT this high, but we do NEED another OTGreat, then take him (meaning a tackle in general, not bulaga in particular) in the 2nd round. Or the 3rd. None of these guys are as good as the top 4 or 5 from last year's class. It's an utter waste of a pick if we go that route at 5.

DeezNutz
03-22-2010, 12:39 PM
If this is the pick, we need a Dayton Pioli smilie.

Perhaps a blue and red colored piece of shit would do the trick.

Fat Elvis
03-22-2010, 12:40 PM
Great, then take him (meaning a tackle in general, not bulaga in particular) in the 2nd round. Or the 3rd. None of these guys are as good as the top 4 or 5 from last year's class. It's an utter waste of a pick if we go that route at 5.

Welcome to Pioliville.

KCFLAKE
03-22-2010, 12:52 PM
NOOOOOOO. I wouldn't want that guy. Baluga like another Trezelle jenkins to me.

JRS2
03-22-2010, 01:04 PM
You guys seem to think you are good at judging OL talent. I am just wondering what your background is. Are any of you guys coaches? Have you seen any film at all of the OL candidates?


NOOOOOOO. I wouldn't want that guy. Baluga like another Trezelle jenkins to me.

Dicky McElephant
03-22-2010, 01:07 PM
You guys seem to think you are good at judging OL talent. I am just wondering what your background is. Are any of you guys coaches? Have you seen any film at all of the OL candidates?

Ummm.....who the fuck are you? You have no clue who anyone around here is.

ChiefMojo
03-22-2010, 01:09 PM
Baluga is a very good OT (seen him play numerous times), but if you listen to this board he really sucks. The only thing I question about Baluga is the fact I think he is a All-Pro RT and not a LT in the grand scheme of things. Do you really want to pay LT money to a true RT? Not to say Baluga couldn't be a good LT, but he fits perfectly for RT.

DeezNutz
03-22-2010, 01:09 PM
I'm the GM for the Titans ,in the CP mock, so I'm qualified to assess NFL talent.

Dicky McElephant
03-22-2010, 01:15 PM
I'm the GM for the Titans ,in the CP mock, so I'm qualified to assess NFL talent.

Psssh. I'm the GM for the 49ers and the Eagles. I know what the hell I'm doing.

nychief
03-22-2010, 01:32 PM
i think if we go defense...

Dicky McElephant
03-22-2010, 01:40 PM
Baluga is a very good OT (seen him play numerous times), but if you listen to this board he really sucks. The only thing I question about Baluga is the fact I think he is a All-Pro RT and not a LT in the grand scheme of things. Do you really want to pay LT money to a true RT? Not to say Baluga couldn't be a good LT, but he fits perfectly for RT.

It's not the fact that he sucks. I'm sure he'll be an outstanding RT.....but you don't take a RT with the 5th overall pick.

JRS2
03-22-2010, 01:50 PM
Ummmm, I am the guy that has been on this board 1.5 years longer than you. The difference is that I don't post every thought I have. Most of you guys have no fucking idea what you are talking about. You most certainly do not.



Ummm.....who the **** are you? You have no clue who anyone around here is.

Dicky McElephant
03-22-2010, 01:52 PM
Ummmm, I am the guy that has been on this board 1.5 years longer than you. The difference is that I don't post every thought I have. Most of you guys have no fucking idea what you are talking about. You most certainly do not.

Ahhhhh the whole "I've been here longer than you!" argument.

The fact is.....I can see from your last 2 posts that your opinion is pretty much shit.

Fish
03-22-2010, 01:56 PM
Ummmm, I am the guy that has been on this board 1.5 years longer than you. The difference is that I don't post every thought I have. Most of you guys have no fucking idea what you are talking about. You most certainly do not.

Awfully critical for a guy with less than 40 posts in 5 years. Either you don't think much, or your thoughts aren't worth sharing.

You might want to work on that before you expect anybody to take you seriously when you're calling out regular contributors around here.

DeezNutz
03-22-2010, 01:59 PM
You guys seem to think you are good at judging OL talent. I am just wondering what your background is. Are any of you guys coaches? Have you seen any film at all of the OL candidates?

What are your thoughts on the draft?

More productive to post these than simply insulting posters with a broad brush.

notorious
03-22-2010, 02:02 PM
I am tired of the old way.


Let's draft some playmakers for fucks sakes.

Von Dumbass
03-22-2010, 02:02 PM
Good mock for me. I want Denver to draft McClain at 11.

Brock
03-22-2010, 02:03 PM
Good mock for me. I want Denver to draft McClain at 11.

I hope so too.

nychief
03-22-2010, 02:06 PM
I am tired of the old way.


Let's draft some playmakers for ****s sakes.\


again with this nonword.

King_Chief_Fan
03-22-2010, 02:06 PM
Baluga is a very good OT (seen him play numerous times), but if you listen to this board he really sucks. The only thing I question about Baluga is the fact I think he is a All-Pro RT and not a LT in the grand scheme of things. Do you really want to pay LT money to a true RT? Not to say Baluga couldn't be a good LT, but he fits perfectly for RT.

which is exactly what the team needs

keg in kc
03-22-2010, 02:09 PM
which is exactly what the team needsYour post is left hanging without "but not at 5" at the end.

MagicHef
03-22-2010, 02:10 PM
Good mock for me. I want Denver to draft McClain at 11.

I do not.

kysirsoze
03-22-2010, 02:10 PM
Ummmm, I am the guy that has been on this board 1.5 years longer than you. The difference is that I don't post every thought I have. Most of you guys have no ****ing idea what you are talking about. You most certainly do not.

I signed up here and really didn't visit until two years later. That's why my post count looks as low as it does. Join date means nothing. Deez is right. You should start with contributing rather than being a dick. It'll get you a lot farther.

keg in kc
03-22-2010, 02:12 PM
You should start with contributing rather than being a dick. It'll get you a lot farther.Your post is left hanging without "but probably not based on what you've done so far" at the end.

kysirsoze
03-22-2010, 02:13 PM
Your post is left hanging without "but probably not based on what you've done so far" at the end.

LMAO rep

Von Dumbass
03-22-2010, 02:17 PM
I do not.

I have 5 players that I will be happy if Denver drafts at #11 McClain, Dan Williams, Dez Bryant, Odrick, and Iupati.

I don't care about McClain's Chron's disease. Everything I have read says it is pretty treatable.

MagicHef
03-22-2010, 02:24 PM
I have 5 players that I will be happy if Denver drafts at #11 McClain, Dan Williams, Dez Bryant, Odrick, and Iupati.

I don't care about McClain's Chron's disease. Everything I have read says it is pretty treatable.

Pretty treatable until it flares up, then he's suddenly missing games. That's not what you look for in the 1st round. Also, I'm not convinced that he's really a top 15 talent, even without considering the Chron's.

nychief
03-22-2010, 02:27 PM
Pretty treatable until it flares up, then he's suddenly missing games. That's not what you look for in the 1st round. Also, I'm not convinced that he's really a top 15 talent, even without considering the Chron's.

I love all the people on this board declaring what you look for in the 1st round player... as though they have any idea. Fucking laughable.

JRS2
03-22-2010, 02:27 PM
What are your thoughts on the draft?

More productive to post these than simply insulting posters with a broad brush.

I am glad you asked. I do have thoughts on the draft that I would like to share. First I will say that I have no more idea about any particular player we might draft than anyone else on this board. I have never seen tape of any player other than the obligatory viewing of a Youtube highlight video. That, of course, is a pitiful way to try to evaluate a player. In order to know who is the best OL prospect, or the best Safety prospect you would need to watch hours of video.

What gripes me is for someone on here to say that Bulaga sucks! Or Russell Okung sucks! Obviously they are very good football players. The only fault they have on this board is that they play an unglamorous position. Most people on here want Eric Berry. You know why? He is a flashy player with a good Youtube highlight video. Man, he looks good in that video, eh? Of course he does. It is a HIGHLIGHT VIDEO!

If you want to know more about a player look at Mike Mayocks player ranking. He has watched hours of video on most of the draft eligible players. He does have a background of evaluating NFL talent. So why try to reinvent the wheel. Mayock has already done your work for you.

The only thing to decide is which position gives you the best value. You already know who the best players are at each position. Oh, you could argue about whether Okung will be better than Bulaga. Or, you could argue whether Taylor Mays is better than Eric Berry. But if fact both will probably be very good NFL players and we don't know right now who will be the better player. We won't know that for a couple of years.

So, all we are really arguing about is which position we can get the most value from. Surely you guys don't really think that position is safety. Looking back on previous drafts the positions valued most are OL and DL. That is evident. Go back and look if you don't believe me. There will probably be 3-5 OT taken in the Top 15 picks this year. There will be 3-5 DL taken in the same Top 15. See the trend?

I think it is certain that Pioli will take a lineman at No. 5 this year. It doesn't matter to me whether it is OL or DL. I think it will be an OT, but if it is one of the premier DL I won't be disappointed. Any of those guys will help our team the most in the long run.

MagicHef
03-22-2010, 02:29 PM
I love all the people on this board declaring what you look for in the 1st round player... as though they have any idea. ****ing laughable.

How would you feel if the Chiefs took McClain at 5?

DeezNutz
03-22-2010, 02:30 PM
Dude, there are some college football freaks on this board who have seen a lot more than simply YouTube highlight videos.

I go to YouTube only to gauge a player's intensity.

And positional value is definitely important. But OT prospects that have been taken high have been selected to play LT, not RT.

nychief
03-22-2010, 02:32 PM
How would you feel if the Chiefs took McClain at 5?

that wasn't the topic was it? you where declaring that the broncos shouldn't take mcclain at 11...THEN sniffed at him being a top 15 pick at all.... sheesh. give me a break.

keg in kc
03-22-2010, 02:34 PM
I'm probably one of McClain's biggest fans here, I think he's a tremendous player that, were there not the health issue, could probably have a greater impact on this defense than any other player (including Barry), but that Chron's thing seems extremely risky to me, despite the fact that he was able to play at a high level for years with it.

I mean, think about it: why hide it for so long, if it's not a potential problem...

Chiefnj2
03-22-2010, 02:34 PM
Looking back on previous drafts the positions valued most are OL and DL. That is evident. Go back and look if you don't believe me. There will probably be 3-5 OT taken in the Top 15 picks this year. There will be 3-5 DL taken in the same Top 15. See the trend?
.

No.

OL does not equal Left Tackle. Left Tackle's are taken in the top 15, not guards, not centers and usually not right tackles.

The DL's that are taken in the top 15 are usually - pass rushing DE's for a 43 defense, DT's for a 43 defense and 34 OLB's who can rush.

MagicHef
03-22-2010, 02:34 PM
that wasn't the topic was it? you where declaring that the broncos shouldn't take mcclain at 11...THEN sniffed at him being a top 15 pick at all.... sheesh. give me a break.

It's just a question. Calm down.

Brock
03-22-2010, 02:34 PM
that wasn't the topic was it? you where declaring that the broncos shouldn't take mcclain at 11...THEN sniffed at him being a top 15 pick at all.... sheesh. give me a break.

He isn't a top 15 pick. He's slow and suffers from a potentially debilitating disease.

nychief
03-22-2010, 02:36 PM
He isn't a top 15 pick. He's slow and suffers from a potentially debilitating disease.




I love the arrogance of fans... everybody with high speed internet and too much time on their hands is a pro scout.

Brock
03-22-2010, 02:37 PM
I love the arrogance of fans... everybody with high speed internet and too much time on their hands is a pro scout.

I have an opinion about McClain, do you? If not, why the fuck are you posting here?

keg in kc
03-22-2010, 02:37 PM
I love the arrogance of fans... everybody with high speed internet and too much time on their hands is a pro scout.Aren't you being just as arrogant? Or is it only arrogance when somebody disagrees?

MagicHef
03-22-2010, 02:38 PM
I love the arrogance of fans... everybody with high speed internet and too much time on their hands is a pro scout.

Who was the last person with a chronic autoimmune disease to be drafted in the 1st round?

Iowanian
03-22-2010, 02:42 PM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/images/photos/000/841/906/97550122_cropped.jpg?1269025871

This is your future KC.

Bulaga might look like the the Vern on Stand By Me but he's a very solid blocker in the running game and in pass protection.

JRS2
03-22-2010, 02:45 PM
Well, you seemed to confirm my trend. If you want to narrow the OL down to LT that is ok with me. Most of the NFL evaluators have spoken and said that Branden Albert is not a top notch LT. Those same evaluators seem to believe that Okung and Bulaga are. If so, take the LT and move Albert. That satisfies your desire to spend a top 5 pick on a LT.

If you don't believe Okung or Bulaga are better than Albert you take a DL. Who knows, Suh, or McCoy could easily fall to us. If either are on the board you must take them.
=================================================================

No.
OL does not equal Left Tackle. Left Tackle's are taken in the top 15, not guards, not centers and usually not right tackles.

The DL's that are taken in the top 15 are usually - pass rushing DE's for a 43 defense, DT's for a 43 defense and 34 OLB's who can rush.

Fish
03-22-2010, 02:46 PM
I am glad you asked. I do have thoughts on the draft that I would like to share. First I will say that I have no more idea about any particular player we might draft than anyone else on this board. .
.
.
If you want to know more about a player look at Mike Mayocks player ranking.... Mayock has already done your work for you.
.
.
.
.


So your thoughts on the draft are to see what players Mayock likes?

And this is after saying most of the guys here have no fucking idea what they're talking about?

OK then.

Brock
03-22-2010, 02:47 PM
So your thoughts on the draft are to see what players Mayock likes?

And this is after saying most of the guys here have no fucking idea what they're talking about?

OK then.

ROFL

Danman
03-22-2010, 02:51 PM
I am glad you asked. I do have thoughts on the draft that I would like to share. First I will say that I have no more idea about any particular player we might draft than anyone else on this board. I have never seen tape of any player other than the obligatory viewing of a Youtube highlight video. That, of course, is a pitiful way to try to evaluate a player. In order to know who is the best OL prospect, or the best Safety prospect you would need to watch hours of video.

What gripes me is for someone on here to say that Bulaga sucks! Or Russell Okung sucks! Obviously they are very good football players. The only fault they have on this board is that they play an unglamorous position. Most people on here want Eric Berry. You know why? He is a flashy player with a good Youtube highlight video. Man, he looks good in that video, eh? Of course he does. It is a HIGHLIGHT VIDEO!

If you want to know more about a player look at Mike Mayocks player ranking. He has watched hours of video on most of the draft eligible players. He does have a background of evaluating NFL talent. So why try to reinvent the wheel. Mayock has already done your work for you.

The only thing to decide is which position gives you the best value. You already know who the best players are at each position. Oh, you could argue about whether Okung will be better than Bulaga. Or, you could argue whether Taylor Mays is better than Eric Berry. But if fact both will probably be very good NFL players and we don't know right now who will be the better player. We won't know that for a couple of years.

So, all we are really arguing about is which position we can get the most value from. Surely you guys don't really think that position is safety. Looking back on previous drafts the positions valued most are OL and DL. That is evident. Go back and look if you don't believe me. There will probably be 3-5 OT taken in the Top 15 picks this year. There will be 3-5 DL taken in the same Top 15. See the trend?

I think it is certain that Pioli will take a lineman at No. 5 this year. It doesn't matter to me whether it is OL or DL. I think it will be an OT, but if it is one of the premier DL I won't be disappointed. Any of those guys will help our team the most in the long run.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Now I'll give you mine. First I wouldn't take any mock draft seriously until Clark Judge does his final mock the week before the draft. Mayock had one good year a few years back, but last year he was way off. Most of these guys put about five minutes of thought into a draft before they publish it.

I think an OL in the first is anything but a forgone conclusion. I think Pioli does like Eric Berry and he may draft him. I think he also likes Rolando McClain, Sean Witherspoon, etc. But, Pioli's methodical, if some team offers great trade value, I think he moves off the fifth pick, slides further down, and that's why you're seeing all the different private workouts. They will be prepared for anything.

I think Pioli knows you can find a good OL later in the draft than the 5th pick. I think they like Ducasse better than anyone right now and he's a projected second round pick.

For a team devoid of playmakers, it will be a huge disappointment if we have 3 consecutive top 5 choices and all we walk away with is 2 DL and one OL

JRS2
03-22-2010, 02:52 PM
It is interesting that you would call me out on that. Maybe you can tell me who on this board is more higly regarded in talent evaluation than Mayock. You probably think you are...LOL


So your thoughts on the draft are to see what players Mayock likes?

And this is after saying most of the guys here have no ****ing idea what they're talking about?

OK then.

Chiefnj2
03-22-2010, 02:52 PM
Well, you seemed to confirm my trend. If you want to narrow the OL down to LT that is ok with me. Most of the NFL evaluators have spoken and said that Branden Albert is not a top notch LT. Those same evaluators seem to believe that Okung and Bulaga are. If so, take the LT and move Albert. That satisfies your desire to spend a top 5 pick on a LT.

If you don't believe Okung or Bulaga are better than Albert you take a DL. Who knows, Suh, or McCoy could easily fall to us. If either are on the board you must take them.
=================================================================

They all said ALbert was a top notch LT 2 years ago. Are the evaluators correct, or not? If they are correct, then maybe Albert should stay at LT. IF they were wrong, maybe they are wrong on Okung and Bulaga.

Do you understand the fact that different teams play different systems, and not all players fit into different systems? What position is McCoy going to play in KC?

JRS2
03-22-2010, 02:57 PM
Mike Mayock wins 2009 Mock Draft Title:

Saturday morning, when we posted our Mock Draft, we also linked to about a dozen prognosticators: DMN, Union Trib, National Football Post, AJC, Kiper, Four guys at NFL.com, McShay, the kid who thinks he’s better than Kiper, Peter King, Don Banks, these five guys at CBS Sports, and Scout.com How’d we stack up compared to them?
By our calculations, Mayock was victorious. A quick note about his mock draft: By 11 am, when our post went up, we hadn’t seen Mayock’s mock draft. So we don’t know the exact time it went up. While we don’t think there’s any chicanery at play, we just wanted to point that out. Also, for scoring purposes – 1 point was given to anyone who correctly nailed the pick exactly; .5 was given to those who had Tampa taking QB Josh Freeman, even though he went at 17 instead of 19, as many predicted.

Mike Mayock (NFL Network): 10-32
Mel Kiper: 8.5-32
Ours: 8.5-32
National Football Post: 8.5-32
Gosselin (DMN): 8-32
Don Banks (SI): 7-32
Union-Trib: 7-32
The kid who claimed to have beaten Kiper in year’s past: 7-32
Todd McShay 6-32
Clark Judge 6-32
Peter King 5.5-32

Danman
03-22-2010, 02:58 PM
Well, you seemed to confirm my trend. If you want to narrow the OL down to LT that is ok with me. Most of the NFL evaluators have spoken and said that Branden Albert is not a top notch LT. Those same evaluators seem to believe that Okung and Bulaga are. If so, take the LT and move Albert. That satisfies your desire to spend a top 5 pick on a LT.

If you don't believe Okung or Bulaga are better than Albert you take a DL. Who knows, Suh, or McCoy could easily fall to us. If either are on the board you must take them.
=================================================================

Who are these so called evaluators? Mayock? McShay? Kiper? those are press people. This time of year if a team's OL was in the bottom third of the league and there's a prospect slotted for a position. They print a story of how player x should be drafted to replace y, Player Y can then be moved to another position to fortify that posiiton. They never consider if player Y fits the position.

kysirsoze
03-22-2010, 03:06 PM
It is interesting that you would call me out on that. Maybe you can tell me who on this board is more higly regarded in talent evaluation than Mayock. You probably think you are...LOL

This is ridiculous. It's an amateur board for the most part. Just people voicing their opinions. If the professionals were the end all then this message board would either cease to be or be a bunch of people saying "yep" and "sounds good". Pretty boring.

Chiefnj2
03-22-2010, 03:07 PM
Didn't Mayock think Ayers was the top defensive prospect last year?

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 03:08 PM
Mike Mayock wins 2009 Mock Draft Title:

Saturday morning, when we posted our Mock Draft, we also linked to about a dozen prognosticators: DMN, Union Trib, National Football Post, AJC, Kiper, Four guys at NFL.com, McShay, the kid who thinks he’s better than Kiper, Peter King, Don Banks, these five guys at CBS Sports, and Scout.com How’d we stack up compared to them?
By our calculations, Mayock was victorious. A quick note about his mock draft: By 11 am, when our post went up, we hadn’t seen Mayock’s mock draft. So we don’t know the exact time it went up. While we don’t think there’s any chicanery at play, we just wanted to point that out. Also, for scoring purposes – 1 point was given to anyone who correctly nailed the pick exactly; .5 was given to those who had Tampa taking QB Josh Freeman, even though he went at 17 instead of 19, as many predicted.

Mike Mayock (NFL Network): 10-32
Mel Kiper: 8.5-32
Ours: 8.5-32
National Football Post: 8.5-32
Gosselin (DMN): 8-32
Don Banks (SI): 7-32
Union-Trib: 7-32
The kid who claimed to have beaten Kiper in year’s past: 7-32
Todd McShay 6-32
Peter King 5.5-32

Predicting where a player lands means absolutely nothing.

Many of these guys have confidant's across the league that tell them which way they're leaning.

It's in no way, shape or form, an indicator of the talent or "fit" of the selection.

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 03:09 PM
Didn't Mayock think Ayers was the top defensive prospect last year?

Yes

Dicky McElephant
03-22-2010, 03:10 PM
You may have been here longer than some people....but you're still a worthless n00b.

There are people on here that DVR every game and watch them to see how 1 or 2 players play.

And do you honestly think that Mayock watches hours upon hours of tape? I guarantee you that he has staff that do that for him....and they feed him information.

Fish
03-22-2010, 03:11 PM
It is interesting that you would call me out on that. Maybe you can tell me who on this board is more higly regarded in talent evaluation than Mayock. You probably think you are...LOL

Myself? No, I can't say that.

But I can say with confidence that if you would put 10 of the best football minds on this BB together, it would be a collective of football intelligence that Mayock could never dream of. That's why we have discussions here, and exchange ideas, and call each other idiots.

But make no mistake about it, when you weed through the dumbassery, there is just as much intelligent talent analysis and evaluation going on here as there is in anything Mayock distributes. If he were a stellar talent evaluator, then he'd be working in that profession instead of giving opinions like everyone else. And that is all he does you know. He gives opinions.

JRS2
03-22-2010, 03:12 PM
Ok. If you say so. LOL.

In that case Mayock's contacts are much better than anyone else's.

By the way, Mayock predicts Bulaga to the Chiefs.

Predicting where a player lands means absolutely nothing.

Many of these guys have confidant's across the league that tell them which way they're leaning.

It's in no way, shape or form, an indicator of the talent or "fit" of the selection.

kysirsoze
03-22-2010, 03:14 PM
You may have been here longer than some people....but you're still a worthless n00b.

There are people on here that DVR every game and watch them to see how 1 or 2 players play.

And do you honestly think that Mayock watches hours upon hours of tape? I guarantee you that he has staff that do that for him....and they feed him information.

Agreed, but as someone who doesn't do any of that crap, I reserve the right to spout my uneducated opinion. :harumph:

DeezNutz
03-22-2010, 03:14 PM
Well, you seemed to confirm my trend. If you want to narrow the OL down to LT that is ok with me. Most of the NFL evaluators have spoken and said that Branden Albert is not a top notch LT. Those same evaluators seem to believe that Okung and Bulaga are. If so, take the LT and move Albert. That satisfies your desire to spend a top 5 pick on a LT.

If you don't believe Okung or Bulaga are better than Albert you take a DL. Who knows, Suh, or McCoy could easily fall to us. If either are on the board you must take them.
=================================================================

Not true. And not true.

MVChiefFan
03-22-2010, 03:15 PM
Myself? No, I can't say that.

But I can say with confidence that if you would put 10 of the best football minds on this BB together, it would be a collective of football intelligence that Mayock could never dream of. That's why we have discussions here, and exchange ideas, and call each other idiots.

But make no mistake about it, when you weed through the dumbassery, there is just as much intelligent talent analysis and evaluation going on here as there is in anything Mayock distributes. If he were a stellar talent evaluator, then he'd be working in that profession instead of giving opinions like everyone else. And that is all he does you know. He gives opinions.

Why, thank you Mr. KC Fish...:D

JRS2
03-22-2010, 03:15 PM
Yea, well the difference is that Mayock gives his opinions for NFL Network! Not some message board on the internet. If the NFL Network values what he has to say then I think I will too.

Myself? No, I can't say that.

But I can say with confidence that if you would put 10 of the best football minds on this BB together, it would be a collective of football intelligence that Mayock could never dream of. That's why we have discussions here, and exchange ideas, and call each other idiots.

But make no mistake about it, when you weed through the dumbassery, there is just as much intelligent talent analysis and evaluation going on here as there is in anything Mayock distributes. If he were a stellar talent evaluator, then he'd be working in that profession instead of giving opinions like everyone else. And that is all he does you know. He gives opinions.

MagicHef
03-22-2010, 03:15 PM
Didn't Mayock think Ayers was the top defensive prospect last year?

Not exactly. He said that in 3 years, Ayers would be the best defender in that draft.

Contrarian
03-22-2010, 03:16 PM
I was thinking that we would trade down with Cleveland since they have 15 picks to throw around. I thought that Clausen may be what they were setting their sites on since clearing out the QBs they currently have in place of Delhomme and Seneca. BUT now according to Holmgren they want Tebow in the top of the second.
Unless they want to move up just two spots to get Berry and we move to 7 and get Bulaga anyway and a later pick, what round would that pick be? What is a trade like that worth? Who else would we trade down with that covets the 5th spot so much?

Dicky McElephant
03-22-2010, 03:16 PM
Most of the NFL evaluators have spoken and said that Branden Albert is not a top notch LT. Those same evaluators seem to believe that Okung and Bulaga are.

Links or it never happened. You've been here longer....you should know that.

JRS2
03-22-2010, 03:17 PM
Could you be any more uninformed? Does anyone on this board think you know anything? I doubt it.

You may have been here longer than some people....but you're still a worthless n00b.

There are people on here that DVR every game and watch them to see how 1 or 2 players play.

And do you honestly think that Mayock watches hours upon hours of tape? I guarantee you that he has staff that do that for him....and they feed him information.

JRS2
03-22-2010, 03:20 PM
Ok. I will need a link for your goofy comment or it never happened.

"And do you honestly think that Mayock watches hours upon hours of tape? I guarantee you that he has staff that do that for him....and they feed him information."

Links or it never happened. You've been here longer....you should know that.

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 03:20 PM
Ok. If you say so. LOL.

What's so funny, n00b?


In that case Mayock's contacts are much better than anyone else's.

By the way, Mayock predicts Bulaga to the Chiefs.

First off, Mayock was a former player. He wasn't a local beat writer like Schefter. He's not a guy that's been doing evaluations like Kiper in his garage for the better part of 20 years.

And why would you think that I wouldn't know who Mayock predicts at this point?

:shake:

Dicky McElephant
03-22-2010, 03:20 PM
Could you be any more uninformed? Does anyone on this board think you know anything? I doubt it.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that more people on this board think I know more than you do.

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 03:21 PM
Ok. I will need a link for your goofy comment or it never happened.

"And do you honestly think that Mayock watches hours upon hours of tape? I guarantee you that he has staff that do that for him....and they feed him information."

It's clear that you're a Dupe.

Why else would have your rep turned off?

Most n00bs don't even realize what rep is for quite a while.

Fish
03-22-2010, 03:24 PM
Ok. If you say so. LOL.

In that case Mayock's contacts are much better than anyone else's.

By the way, Mayock predicts Bulaga to the Chiefs.

Just like Mayock predicted Aaron Curry to the Chiefs last season in his final mock draft?

Just like he predicted Jeff Otah to the Chiefs in 08?

Detoxing
03-22-2010, 03:25 PM
Yea, well the difference is that Mayock gives his opinions for NFL Network! Not some message board on the internet. If the NFL Network values what he has to say then I think I will too.

Just because he works for NFLN doesn't mean shit. What it means is that he's paid to give an opinion. Look at the Jackasses that work for ESPN. Am I suppose to believe that Thomas Jones is going to supplant Jamal Charles because Bill Williamson said so? Am I also suppose to believe that Albert is a better RT than Left, because his playing style and physical attributes state otherwise.

I don't think anyone here is arguing whether or not Bulaga is a good player. You're missing the point. After reading through this thread, it seems like this is your coming out party and your arguing just to bitch.

The reason why people dont want Bulaga is because we already have a LT. And don't give me that "blah blah blah says he's not a LT" BS. Because when we drafted him, plenty of people were talking about how great of a LT he would become. And he had a solid rookie year. He took a step back this year...but so did Ryan Clady. Should the Donks be looking for a new LT too?

Detoxing
03-22-2010, 03:26 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that more people on this board think I know more than you do.

Count me as one.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-22-2010, 03:30 PM
Mike Mayock is the most overrated draft expert out there.

People liked him when they saw an alternative to Kiper, now the new is off, and you can see him for what he is: a dumb sonofabitch.

JRS2
03-22-2010, 03:45 PM
NFM

Fish
03-22-2010, 03:47 PM
Mike Mayock wins 2009 Mock Draft Title:

Saturday morning, when we posted our Mock Draft, we also linked to about a dozen prognosticators: DMN, Union Trib, National Football Post, AJC, Kiper, Four guys at NFL.com, McShay, the kid who thinks he’s better than Kiper, Peter King, Don Banks, these five guys at CBS Sports, and Scout.com How’d we stack up compared to them?
By our calculations, Mayock was victorious. A quick note about his mock draft: By 11 am, when our post went up, we hadn’t seen Mayock’s mock draft. So we don’t know the exact time it went up. While we don’t think there’s any chicanery at play, we just wanted to point that out. Also, for scoring purposes – 1 point was given to anyone who correctly nailed the pick exactly; .5 was given to those who had Tampa taking QB Josh Freeman, even though he went at 17 instead of 19, as many predicted.

Mike Mayock (NFL Network): 10-32
Mel Kiper: 8.5-32
Ours: 8.5-32
National Football Post: 8.5-32
Gosselin (DMN): 8-32
Don Banks (SI): 7-32
Union-Trib: 7-32
The kid who claimed to have beaten Kiper in year’s past: 7-32
Todd McShay 6-32
Clark Judge 6-32
Peter King 5.5-32

Also.... I noticed that you conveniently left off the later part of that article. The part describing the update where a bunch of other draft guys that are not employed by ESPN actually beat Mayock's results. Including a kid named Shawn Zobel, a self-proclaimed internet blogger. I'm not sure why Mayock couldn't beat out some young sports blogger that has never been paid by ESPN. That just doesn't make sense right?

Here's the part you left off:

[UPDATE!] As expected, this post triggered a flurry of emails. Three that stand out: According to an emailer, Nolan Nawrocki over at Pro Football Weekly (http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2009/mock042509.htm) trumped Mayock’s score; Dan Pompei at the Chicago Tribun (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-25-nfl-mock-draft-pompei-apr25,0,3892176,print.story)e also hit double figures; and Shawn Zobel (aka, the kid who claims he’s better than Kiper) said that he only posted his final mock draft on his blog (http://draftheadquarters.com/blog/?p=545) (not under the mock draft on his website, for whatever reason), and he too claims he beat Kiper.http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2009/04/27/your-mock-draft-winner-nfl-networks-mike-mayock/

Dicky McElephant
03-22-2010, 03:49 PM
NFM

Yeah....exactly. Go back to lurking.

JRS2
03-22-2010, 03:51 PM
You really need to go re-read the article you posted. Zobel claims to have beaten KIPER! ONE guy claims to have beaten him. That is it! Please get your story straight if you are gonna refute facts.

Also.... I noticed that you conveniently left off the later part of that article. The part describing the update where a bunch of other draft guys that are not employed by ESPN actually beat Mayock's results. Including a kid named Shawn Zobel, a self-proclaimed internet blogger. I'm not sure why Mayock couldn't beat out some young sports blogger that has never been paid by ESPN. That just doesn't make sense right?

Here's the part you left off:

http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2009/04/27/your-mock-draft-winner-nfl-networks-mike-mayock/

Fish
03-22-2010, 03:57 PM
You really need to go re-read the article you posted. Zobel claims to have beaten KIPER! ONE guy claims to have beaten him. That is it! Please get your story straight if you are gonna refute facts.

Ummm.... I believe I did read that correctly....

Nolan Nawrocki over at Pro Football Weekly (http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2009/mock042509.htm) trumped Mayock’s score; Dan Pompei at the Chicago Tribun (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-25-nfl-mock-draft-pompei-apr25,0,3892176,print.story)e also hit double figures; and Shawn Zobel (aka, the kid who claims he’s better than Kiper) said that he only posted his final mock draft on his blog (http://draftheadquarters.com/blog/?p=545) (not under the mock draft on his website, for whatever reason), and he too claims he beat Kiper.

And all this discussion for less that 30% success. 30%.

Can you even tell me the last first round pick that Mayock successfully picked for the Chiefs? Can you tell me the last one he got right in the first round for this team?

I'll give you a few minutes, but I bet you can't...

Chiefnj2
03-22-2010, 03:59 PM
Having an accurate Mock Draft doesn't mean you've accurately scouted players. It means you have sources inside NFL teams.

Just because someone accurately predicted that Jamarcus Russel would be drafted by the Raiders doesn't mean he's a good QB. Just because the Jets drafted Gholston doesn't make him a good DE/OLB, etc.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 03:59 PM
This mock, it sucks.

Mike Mayock is basically that guy who says stupid shit to get noticed, and because he got the Donte Whitner pick right a few years ago it's treated like he must know.

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 04:01 PM
You really need to go re-read the article you posted. Zobel claims to have beaten KIPER! ONE guy claims to have beaten him. That is it! Please get your story straight if you are gonna refute facts.

You're missing the point, ENTIRELY.

Who gives a shit if someone correctly guesses where a player will land?

The MOST IMPORTANT thing is to correctly assess a player's talent and project his ability to the NFL.

Scott Pioli had a chance to prove everyone one of these mockers wrong by taking Oher, Harvin or Cushing with the #3 overall pick. Instead, he took TyJack, who promptly shit himself.

Seattle took the "safe" pick instead of Sanchez and Curry was just "okay".

Mike Mayock was extremely high on Curry and out of the top linebackers chosen last year (Matthews, Maualuga & Cushing), he was #4 out of those four.

Mayock doesn't know dick.

And either do you.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 04:02 PM
Mike Mayock thought Robert Ayers was the man, his player evaluations leave a lot to be desired.

Detoxing
03-22-2010, 04:29 PM
You're missing the point, ENTIRELY.

Who gives a shit if someone correctly guesses where a player will land?

The MOST IMPORTANT thing is to correctly assess a player's talent and project his ability to the NFL.

Scott Pioli had a chance to prove everyone one of these mockers wrong by taking Oher, Harvin or Cushing with the #3 overall pick. Instead, he took TyJack, who promptly shit himself.

Seattle took the "safe" pick instead of Sanchez and Curry was just "okay".

Mike Mayock was extremely high on Curry and out of the top linebackers chosen last year (Matthews, Maualuga & Cushing), he was #4 out of those four.

Mayock doesn't know dick.

And either do you.

Bam!. And just like that, it's all over.

Hog Farmer
03-22-2010, 04:43 PM
Good mock for me. I want Denver to draft McClain at 11.


We want you to also.

You know he's ghey right ?

Hog Farmer
03-22-2010, 04:46 PM
I signed up here and really didn't visit until two years later. That's why my post count looks as low as it does. Join date means nothing. Deez is right. You should start with contributing rather than being a dick. It'll get you a lot farther.

Not really, I started off being a dick and , well, still am a dick, and Look at me now , EVERYONE likes me !

Hog Farmer
03-22-2010, 04:52 PM
I am glad you asked. I do have thoughts on the draft that I would like to share. First I will say that I have no more idea about any particular player we might draft than anyone else on this board. I have never seen tape of any player other than the obligatory viewing of a Youtube highlight video. That, of course, is a pitiful way to try to evaluate a player. In order to know who is the best OL prospect, or the best Safety prospect you would need to watch hours of video.

What gripes me is for someone on here to say that Bulaga sucks! Or Russell Okung sucks! Obviously they are very good football players. The only fault they have on this board is that they play an unglamorous position. Most people on here want Eric Berry. You know why? He is a flashy player with a good Youtube highlight video. Man, he looks good in that video, eh? Of course he does. It is a HIGHLIGHT VIDEO!

If you want to know more about a player look at Mike Mayocks player ranking. He has watched hours of video on most of the draft eligible players. He does have a background of evaluating NFL talent. So why try to reinvent the wheel. Mayock has already done your work for you.

The only thing to decide is which position gives you the best value. You already know who the best players are at each position. Oh, you could argue about whether Okung will be better than Bulaga. Or, you could argue whether Taylor Mays is better than Eric Berry. But if fact both will probably be very good NFL players and we don't know right now who will be the better player. We won't know that for a couple of years.

So, all we are really arguing about is which position we can get the most value from. Surely you guys don't really think that position is safety. Looking back on previous drafts the positions valued most are OL and DL. That is evident. Go back and look if you don't believe me. There will probably be 3-5 OT taken in the Top 15 picks this year. There will be 3-5 DL taken in the same Top 15. See the trend?

I think it is certain that Pioli will take a lineman at No. 5 this year. It doesn't matter to me whether it is OL or DL. I think it will be an OT, but if it is one of the premier DL I won't be disappointed. Any of those guys will help our team the most in the long run.

Nice Post ! I read the entire thing and I gotta say , I didn't find any misspelled words ! Do you use spell check ? If so, I challenge you to try posting without.

patteeu
03-22-2010, 04:53 PM
Ahhhhh the whole "I've been here longer than you!" argument.

The fact is.....I can see from your last 2 posts that your opinion is pretty much shit.

Pointing out that he's been around longer than you seems like a reasonable and relevant response to your accusation. He asked a pretty reasonable question, IMO. What do any of you know about these offensive line options besides what you read on your draft guide websites? He didn't even criticize anyone, he just asked a question, presumably so he'd know who he should take seriously and who he should ignore. :shrug:

Dicky McElephant
03-22-2010, 04:58 PM
You guys seem to think you are good at judging OL talent. I am just wondering what your background is. Are any of you guys coaches? Have you seen any film at all of the OL candidates?

Ummmm, I am the guy that has been on this board 1.5 years longer than you. The difference is that I don't post every thought I have. Most of you guys have no fucking idea what you are talking about. You most certainly do not.

I am glad you asked. I do have thoughts on the draft that I would like to share. First I will say that I have no more idea about any particular player we might draft than anyone else on this board. I have never seen tape of any player other than the obligatory viewing of a Youtube highlight video. That, of course, is a pitiful way to try to evaluate a player. In order to know who is the best OL prospect, or the best Safety prospect you would need to watch hours of video.

What gripes me is for someone on here to say that Bulaga sucks! Or Russell Okung sucks! Obviously they are very good football players. The only fault they have on this board is that they play an unglamorous position. Most people on here want Eric Berry. You know why? He is a flashy player with a good Youtube highlight video. Man, he looks good in that video, eh? Of course he does. It is a HIGHLIGHT VIDEO!

If you want to know more about a player look at Mike Mayocks player ranking. He has watched hours of video on most of the draft eligible players. He does have a background of evaluating NFL talent. So why try to reinvent the wheel. Mayock has already done your work for you.

The only thing to decide is which position gives you the best value. You already know who the best players are at each position. Oh, you could argue about whether Okung will be better than Bulaga. Or, you could argue whether Taylor Mays is better than Eric Berry. But if fact both will probably be very good NFL players and we don't know right now who will be the better player. We won't know that for a couple of years.

So, all we are really arguing about is which position we can get the most value from. Surely you guys don't really think that position is safety. Looking back on previous drafts the positions valued most are OL and DL. That is evident. Go back and look if you don't believe me. There will probably be 3-5 OT taken in the Top 15 picks this year. There will be 3-5 DL taken in the same Top 15. See the trend?

I think it is certain that Pioli will take a lineman at No. 5 this year. It doesn't matter to me whether it is OL or DL. I think it will be an OT, but if it is one of the premier DL I won't be disappointed. Any of those guys will help our team the most in the long run.

Well, you seemed to confirm my trend. If you want to narrow the OL down to LT that is ok with me. Most of the NFL evaluators have spoken and said that Branden Albert is not a top notch LT. Those same evaluators seem to believe that Okung and Bulaga are. If so, take the LT and move Albert. That satisfies your desire to spend a top 5 pick on a LT.

If you don't believe Okung or Bulaga are better than Albert you take a DL. Who knows, Suh, or McCoy could easily fall to us. If either are on the board you must take them.
=================================================================

It is interesting that you would call me out on that. Maybe you can tell me who on this board is more higly regarded in talent evaluation than Mayock. You probably think you are...LOL

Yea, well the difference is that Mayock gives his opinions for NFL Network! Not some message board on the internet. If the NFL Network values what he has to say then I think I will too.

Could you be any more uninformed? Does anyone on this board think you know anything? I doubt it.

You really need to go re-read the article you posted. Zobel claims to have beaten KIPER! ONE guy claims to have beaten him. That is it! Please get your story straight if you are gonna refute facts.

See above.

Pointing out that he's been around longer than you seems like a reasonable and relevant response to your accusation. He asked a pretty reasonable question, IMO. What do any of you know about these offensive line options besides what you read on your draft guide websites? He didn't even criticize anyone, he just asked a question, presumably so he'd know who he should take seriously and who he should ignore. :shrug:

He came on here and basically stated that since we're on a message board that we don't really know shit about talent evaluation. You don't have to be a coach to watch film on players. Some people actually like sitting down and doing that. After we called him out....he went off on his tangent about how we know jack shit.

Fuck him.

Hog Farmer
03-22-2010, 05:02 PM
Not exactly. He said that in 3 years, Ayers would be the best defender in that draft.

Well, so far Ayers is the only defender to body Slam Charles. That's gotta mean somethin.

Hog Farmer
03-22-2010, 05:03 PM
See above.



He came on here and basically stated that since we're on a message board that we don't really no shit about talent evaluation. You don't have to be a coach to watch film on players. Some people actually like sitting down and doing that. After we called him out....he went off on his tangent about how we know jack shit.

**** him.

You misspelled know. So far he's winning the spelling contest.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 05:03 PM
That guy got what he asked for, all he did was say Mike Mayock is smart and we are not because we post on a message board. I see Robert Ayers making him look brilliant don't you...

Talent evaluators thought Robert Gallery would be great too.....he wasn't, sadly Bulaga probably has a lot of Gallery in him.

MagicHef
03-22-2010, 05:04 PM
Well, so far Ayers is the only defender to body Slam Charles. That's gotta mean somethin.

Slam Charles would be an awesome name.

keg in kc
03-22-2010, 05:07 PM
Bulaga probably has a lot of Gallery in him.Cue gay porn music.

T-post Tom
03-22-2010, 05:17 PM
I love lamp.

Hog Farmer
03-22-2010, 05:29 PM
For sure !

Von Dumbass
03-22-2010, 05:33 PM
That guy got what he asked for, all he did was say Mike Mayock is smart and we are not because we post on a message board. I see Robert Ayers making him look brilliant don't you...

Talent evaluators thought Robert Gallery would be great too.....he wasn't, sadly Bulaga probably has a lot of Gallery in him.

Mayock said that 3 years after the 2009 draft that Ayers would be the best defensive player from that draft. Mayock isn't looking bad at all.

Mecca
03-22-2010, 05:35 PM
Robert Ayers fucking sucks, there's a reason he didn't get on the field at Tennessee for years.

Dicky McElephant
03-22-2010, 05:35 PM
You misspelled know. So far he's winning the spelling contest.

:cuss:

Curse you spelling! Curse you!!!!!

MahiMike
03-22-2010, 07:43 PM
I have a feeling this will be one of the most undewelming drafts to wach.
....last year was awful.


Combined with a Thursday night time slot.
ehh.

Hopefully I'll find some other side-stories to keep me interested. Chiefs going OL is about as boring and predictable as....well, the Chiefs.

Really? I think it's gonna be awesome. I like the Thursday night slot too.

patteeu
03-22-2010, 09:30 PM
See above.



He came on here and basically stated that since we're on a message board that we don't really know shit about talent evaluation. You don't have to be a coach to watch film on players. Some people actually like sitting down and doing that. After we called him out....he went off on his tangent about how we know jack shit.

**** him.

No he didn't. He asked a simple question. He didn't direct it at anyone in particular and it was a reasonable question. It wasn't antagonistic and he didn't call anyone names. You and several others got your panties in a bunch because you assumed he was saying you and the others didn't know shit (which is probably true for most of us, but that's beside the point). He was simply asking whether the people who had strong opinions about how good or bad certain linemen were had any special qualifications for those assessments or if they were coming from a bunch of the standard blowhards on a message board talking out of their asses. It was a nonjudgmental post that you and several others chose to be insulted by and chose to retaliate against.

And the funny part is that when you called him out as a noob, he pulled your pants down by pointing out that he'd been here longer than you had. He didn't deserve the reaction he got. You and a few others were the aggressors here, not JRS2. BTW, I don't have anything against you or the others who jumped him, and I'm sure it can all be chalked up to misunderstanding, but I thought someone should point it out on his behalf.

keg in kc
03-22-2010, 09:39 PM
No he didn't. He asked a simple question. He didn't direct it at anyone in particular and it was a reasonable question. It wasn't antagonistic and he didn't call anyone names. Yeah, I'm sure when the first words out of a guy's mouth are "You guys seem to think you are good at judging OL talent" he's not trying to be antagonistic. Nah. Not at all.

patteeu
03-22-2010, 09:41 PM
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Now I'll give you mine. First I wouldn't take any mock draft seriously until Clark Judge does his final mock the week before the draft. Mayock had one good year a few years back, but last year he was way off. Most of these guys put about five minutes of thought into a draft before they publish it.

I think an OL in the first is anything but a forgone conclusion. I think Pioli does like Eric Berry and he may draft him. I think he also likes Rolando McClain, Sean Witherspoon, etc. But, Pioli's methodical, if some team offers great trade value, I think he moves off the fifth pick, slides further down, and that's why you're seeing all the different private workouts. They will be prepared for anything.

I think Pioli knows you can find a good OL later in the draft than the 5th pick. I think they like Ducasse better than anyone right now and he's a projected second round pick.

For a team devoid of playmakers, it will be a huge disappointment if we have 3 consecutive top 5 choices and all we walk away with is 2 DL and one OL

You can't really know whether Maycock was way off last year for a few years in at least one important sense. Whether he guesses right about which players are taken by which teams during which round is less interesting to me and less relevant to this discussion than whether he guesses right about which players they should have taken.

patteeu
03-22-2010, 09:56 PM
Yeah, I'm sure when the first words out of a guy's mouth are "You guys seem to think you are good at judging OL talent" he's not trying to be antagonistic. Nah. Not at all.

At worst it was ambiguous. You didn't have to take it that way and it's not at all clear that he meant it to be so. It seems like it struck several nerves though. Perhaps the challenge for bona fides struck a little too close to home?

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 11:44 PM
At worst it was ambiguous. You didn't have to take it that way and it's not at all clear that he meant it to be so. It seems like it struck several nerves though. Perhaps the challenge for bona fides struck a little too close to home?

I'll tell you what, Pat: I'll take that fucking challenge.

patteeu
03-22-2010, 11:49 PM
I'll tell you what, Pat: I'll take that ****ing challenge.

Ok, go ahead.

DaneMcCloud
03-22-2010, 11:50 PM
Ok, go ahead.

So what's the question(s)?

Dicky McElephant
03-22-2010, 11:51 PM
And the funny part is that when you called him out as a noob, he pulled your pants down by pointing out that he'd been here longer than you had.

Pulled my pants down because he showed that he's been here longer? :spock:

DeezNutz
03-22-2010, 11:54 PM
Don't feel bad.

He pulled mine down, too, just to find out I was longer.

patteeu
03-23-2010, 12:03 AM
So what's the question(s)?

LOL The question is what are your bona fides for judging OL talent? Or, as JRS2 put it:

You guys seem to think you are good at judging OL talent. I am just wondering what your background is. Are any of you guys coaches? Have you seen any film at all of the OL candidates?

patteeu
03-23-2010, 12:03 AM
Don't feel bad.

He pulled mine down, too, just to find out I was longer.

:LOL:

DaneMcCloud
03-23-2010, 12:13 AM
LOL The question is what are your bona fides for judging OL talent? Or, as JRS2 put it:

Who gives a shit and who the fuck is THIS guy to question?

You know, there are people in all walks of life that may have a title but in reality, suck ass.

I don't need to spend 14 hours a day, 5+ days a week, uproot my family on a whim and move them all over the country in order to coach on an NFL squad in order to evaluate offensive lineman.

A DVR will do just fine.

I've pointed out offensive lineman for more than half a decade on this site. I was one of the BIGGEST supporters of Ryan Lilja in 2004 and was extremely pissed that Vermeil and his $5 million dollar salary per year tried to sneak him through waivers.

At the old KC Star site, I had Tait as my guy in the first. More recently, I focused on every down that Darryl Harris and Colin Brown played in preseason and think they have a fine future.

I also predicted the downfall of Waters and the complete and utter suckage of Goff (in which you can easily search).

I was the first to acknowledge the difference when Wade Smith was on the field and championed him repeatedly in 2008 and 2009.

And along with Milkman, we've constantedly noted Albert's early struggles (along with Barry Richardson's rapid improvement over the past two seasons as a 6th rounder) were due to rapid weight loss, loss of endurance due to that weight loss, the immediate change of scheme and his subsequent recovery as a fine offensive left tackle.

If you're concerned about MY particular pedigree, use the search function.

And after that, shut the fuck up (not you personally).

My record speaks for itself.

patteeu
03-23-2010, 12:22 AM
Who gives a shit and who the **** is THIS guy to question?

You know, there are people in all walks of life that may have a title but in reality, suck ass.

I don't need to spend 14 hours a day, 5+ days a week, uproot my family on a whim and move them all over the country in order to coach on an NFL squad in order to evaluate offensive lineman.

A DVR will do just fine.

I've pointed out offensive lineman for more than half a decade on this site. I was one of the BIGGEST proponents of Lilja in 2004 and was extremely pissed that Vermeil and his $5 million dollar salary per year tried to sneak him through.

At the old KC Star site, I had Tait as my guy in the first. More recently, I focused on every down that Darryl Harris and Colin Brown played in preseason and think they have a fine future.

I also predicted the downfall of Waters and the complete and utter suckage of Goff (in which you can easily search).

I was the first to acknowledge the difference when Wade Smith was on the field and championed him repeatedly in 2008 and 2009.

And along with Milkman, we've constantedly noted Albert's early struggles (along with Barry Richardson's rapid improvement over the past two seasons as a 6th rounder) were due to rapid weight loss, loss of endurance due to that weight loss, the immediate change of scheme and his subsequent recovery as a fine offensive left tackle.

If you're concerned about MY particular pedigree, use the search function.

And after that, shut the **** up.

(not you personally).

I'm not taking it personally, but thanks for making it clear you didn't intend it that way.

My response (which is not intended to insult), is that when JRS2 asked his question, he didn't direct it at anyone in particular and everyone was free to either step up to his challenge or ignore it. You just said you wanted to accept the challenge so, fine, accept it, but why do you get indignant about it when you were the one who volunteered to accept it? He wasn't directing it at you specifically, he wasn't hounding you for an answer, and you were free to either take it or not take it so I don't get the anger from you or from any of the others who piled on.

DaneMcCloud
03-23-2010, 12:37 AM
I'm not taking it personally, but thanks for making it clear you didn't intend it that way.

My response (which is not intended to insult), is that when JRS2 asked his question, he didn't direct it at anyone in particular and everyone was free to either step up to his challenge or ignore it. You just said you wanted to accept the challenge so, fine, accept it, but why do you get indignant about it when you were the one who volunteered to accept it? He wasn't directing it at you specifically, he wasn't hounding you for an answer, and you were free to either take it or not take it so I don't get the anger from you or from any of the others who piled on.

No offense to you, but you don't "get it" because you don't spend 99% of your time in the football forum.

There are MANY people here that have properly and accurately evaluated college talent and NFL talent for years on end. Those people frequently discuss those topics and for the most party (no one's 100%) are right.

As it so often happens, some DoucheFuck comes along and questions everyone's CREDENTIALS, not their opinion or prior evaluations. It's fucking BULLSHIT.

If a guy(s) repeatedly, year after year, says dumb stupid shit regarding the draft and free agency, those people's opinions will be taken very lightly.

But for those people who have been repeatedly correct about player evaluation year after year after year to be questioned in this manner is outright FUCKING STUPID.

If a n00b wants to participate, participate.

But don't get all defensive and ask questions like a fucking CUNT when they're called out.

patteeu
03-23-2010, 07:01 AM
No offense to you, but you don't "get it" because you don't spend 99% of your time in the football forum.

There are MANY people here that have properly and accurately evaluated college talent and NFL talent for years on end. Those people frequently discuss those topics and for the most party (no one's 100%) are right.

As it so often happens, some Douche**** comes along and questions everyone's CREDENTIALS, not their opinion or prior evaluations. It's ****ing BULLSHIT.

If a guy(s) repeatedly, year after year, says dumb stupid shit regarding the draft and free agency, those people's opinions will be taken very lightly.

But for those people who have been repeatedly correct about player evaluation year after year after year to be questioned in this manner is outright ****ING STUPID.

If a n00b wants to participate, participate.

But don't get all defensive and ask questions like a ****ing **** when they're called out.

Sorry Dane, but that's :BS:

Neither you nor anyone else in this forum deserves to be above being questioned like that. Some of you have some pretty good insights here and there, but all of you have some pretty big misses too. I know the question was about OL evaluation, but here's an example of you missing bigtime on a probowl-quality defensive lineman/linebacker:

Orakpo sucks I'm sorry, he's another talented undercoached underachiever from Texas.

I don't think he'll make a bad ass anything, seeing as he's from Texas that means he has the technique of a high school player.

He's basically a bodybuilder or wants to be one and managed to injure himself working out...

LMAO

I completely agree.


And as you should understand with JRS2, the fact that I don't post often in the football forums doesn't mean that I'm not reading them fairly regularly.