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View Full Version : U.S. Issues BRC supports the health care reform bill? Why?


BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 08:02 AM
I have been against a new government run health care program for over 20 years since I worked in health care. I've seen the beauracy and inefficencies negatively effect patients. I was against any socialized medical care system like England or Canada have in place.

This bill doesn't go against that ideal. This is not socialized care. There are no death panels, there are no government panels dictating your quality of care. You have a choice of plans. There is not one system/plan that we must all use run by the government.

Below are a couple of articles that give our basic information about whats in the bill. It's not perfect. Far from it. I hate some parts of it like the mandate of health care coverage(but its only fair that everyone pays their fair share for their own health care costs).

It's better than what we got now. It could be made better later. If my only choice is to support this bill or keep the status quo.....I'll choose this bill. Because the status quo sucks worse.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Congress approved a major overhaul of the nation's health care system for President Barack Obama's signature. Here are some of the features of the legislation.

HOW MANY COVERED: 32 million uninsured. Major coverage expansion begins in 2014. When fully phased in, 94 percent of eligible non-elderly Americans would have coverage, compared with 83 percent today.
COST: $938 billion over 10 years, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

INSURANCE MANDATE: Almost everyone is required to be insured or else pay a fine, which takes effect in 2014. There is an exemption for low-income people.

INSURANCE MARKET REFORMS: Starting this year, insurers would be forbidden from placing lifetime dollar limits on policies, from denying coverage to children because of pre-existing conditions, and from canceling policies because someone gets sick. Parents would be able to keep older kids on their coverage up to age 26. A new high-risk pool would offer coverage to uninsured people with medical problems until 2014, when the coverage expansion goes into high gear. Major consumer safeguards would also take effect in 2014. Insurers would be prohibited from denying coverage to people with medical problems or charging them more. Insurers could not charge women more.

MEDICAID: Expands the federal-state Medicaid insurance program for the poor to cover people with incomes up to 133 percent of the federal poverty level, $29,327 a year for a family of four. Childless adults would be covered for the first time, starting in 2014. The federal government would pay 100 percent of costs for covering newly eligible individuals through 2016.

If the Senate approves a package of changes this week, a special deal that would have given Nebraska 100 percent federal financing for newly eligible Medicaid recipients in perpetuity would be eliminated. A different, one-time deal negotiated by Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu for her state, Louisiana, worth as much as $300 million, remains.

TAXES: To make up for the lost revenue, the bill applies an increased Medicare payroll tax to the investment income and to the wages of individuals making more than $200,000, or married couples above $250,000. The tax on investment income would be 3.8 percent. If the Senate follows through, it would impose a 40 percent tax on high-cost insurance plans above the threshold of $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families. The tax would go into effect in 2018.

PRESCRIPTION DRUGS: Gradually closes the "doughnut hole" coverage gap in the Medicare prescription drug benefit that seniors fall into once they have spent $2,830. Seniors who hit the gap this year will receive a $250 rebate. Beginning in 2011, seniors in the gap receive a discount on brand name drugs, initially 50 percent off. When the gap is completely eliminated in 2020, seniors will still be responsible for 25 percent of the cost of their medications until Medicare's catastrophic coverage kicks in.

EMPLOYER RESPONSIBILITY: Employers are hit with a fee if the government subsidizes their workers' coverage. The $2,000-per-employee fee would be assessed on the company's entire work force, minus an allowance. Companies with 50 or fewer workers are exempt from the requirement.

SUBSIDIES: The aid is available on a sliding scale for households making up to four times the federal poverty level, $88,200 for a family of four. Premiums for a family of four making $44,000 would be capped at around 6 percent of income.

HOW YOU CHOOSE YOUR HEALTH INSURANCE: Small businesses, the self-employed and the uninsured could pick a plan offered through new state-based purchasing pools called exchanges, opening for business in 2014. The exchanges would offer the same kind of purchasing power that employees of big companies benefit from. People working for medium-to-large firms would not see major changes. But if they lose their jobs or strike out on their own, they may be eligible for subsidized coverage through the exchange.

GOVERNMENT-RUN PLAN: No government-run insurance plan. People purchasing coverage through the new insurance exchanges would have the option of signing up for national plans overseen by the federal office that manages the health plans available to members of Congress. Those plans would be private, but one would have to be nonprofit.

ABORTION: The bill tries to maintain a strict separation between taxpayer dollars and private premiums that would pay for abortion coverage. No health plan would be required to offer coverage for abortion. In plans that do cover abortion, policyholders would have to pay for it separately, and that money would have to be kept in a separate account from taxpayer money. States could ban abortion coverage in plans offered through the exchange. Exceptions would be made for cases of rape, incest and danger to the life of the mother.

GOP HEALTH CARE SUMMIT IDEAS: Following a bipartisan health care summit last month, Obama announced he was open to incorporating several Republican ideas into his legislation. But two of the principle ones — hiring investigators to pose as patients and search for fraud at hospitals and increasing spending for medical malpractice reform initiatives — did not make it into the legislation. The legislation incorporates only one, an increase in payments to primary care physicians under Medicaid, an idea mentioned by Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...erhaul.Glance/ (http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-finance/20100320/US.Health.Overhaul.Glance/)

-----------------------------------------
A lot kicks in in the first year. Here's the schedule.

Within the first year
• Young adults will be able stay on their parents' insurance until their 27th birthday.
• Seniors will get a $250 rebate to help fill the "doughnut hole" in Medicare prescription drug coverage, which falls between the $2,700 initial limit and when catastrophic coverage kicks in at $6,154.
• Insurers will be barred from imposing exclusions on children with pre-existing conditions. Pools will cover those with pre-existing health conditions until health care coverage exchanges are operational.
• Insurers will not be able to rescind policies to avoid paying medical bills when a person becomes ill.
• Lifetime limits on benefits and restrictive annual limits will be prohibited.
• New plans must provide coverage for preventive services without co-pays. All plans must comply by 2018.
• A temporary reinsurance program will help offset costs of coverage for companies that provide early retiree health benefits for those ages 55 to 64.
• New plans will be required to implement an appeals process for coverage determinations and claims.
• Adoption tax credit and assistance exclusion will increase by $1,000. The bill makes the credit refundable and extends it through 2011.
• A 10 percent tax will be imposed on amounts paid for indoor tanning services on or after July 1.
• Businesses with fewer than 50 employees will get tax credits covering 35 percent of their health care premiums, increasing to 50 percent by 2014.

2011
• Medicare will provide free annual wellness visits and personalized prevention plans. New plans will be required to cover preventive services with no co-pay.
• States can offer home- and community-based services to the disabled through Medicaid rather than institutional care beginning October 1.
• A 50 percent discount will be provided on brand-name drugs for Prescription Drug Plan or Medicare Advantage enrollees. Additional discounts on brand-name and generic drugs will be phased in to completely close the "doughnut hole" by 2020.
• Additional tax for health savings account withdrawals before age 65 for nonqualified medical expenses will increase from 10 percent to 20 percent. Additional tax for Archer medical savings account withdrawals not used for qualified medical expenses will increase from 15 percent to 20 percent.
• A plan to provide a vehicle for small businesses to offer tax-free benefits will be created. This would ease the small employer's administrative burden of sponsoring a cafeteria plan.
• The Medicare payroll tax will increase from 1.45 percent to 2.35 percent for individuals earning more than $200,000 and married filing jointly above $250,000.

2013
• Health plans must implement uniform standards for electronic exchange of health information to reduce paperwork and administrative costs.
• Contributions to flexible savings accounts will be limited to $2,500 per year, indexed by the Consumer Price Index in subsequent years.
• The Employer Medicare Part D subsidy deduction will be eliminated. Employers will lose the tax deduction for subsidizing prescription drug plans for Medicare Part D-eligible retirees.
• There will be increases to the income threshold from 7.5 percent to 10 percent of adjusted gross income. Those older than 65 can claim the 7.5 percent deduction through 2016.
• The hospital insurance tax will increase 0.9 percentage points for those earning more than $200,000 ($250,000 for married filing jointly), and it includes net investment income.
• A 2.9 percent excise tax on the first sale of medical devices will be established. Excepted are eyeglasses, contact lenses, hearing aids or other items for individual use.

2014
• Citizens will be required to have acceptable coverage or pay a penalty of $95 in 2014, $325 in 2015, $695 (or up to 2.5 percent of income) in 2016. Families will pay half the amount for children, up to a cap of $2,250 per family. After 2016, penalties are indexed to Consumer Price Index.
• Workers who are exempt from individual responsibility for coverage but don't qualify for tax credits can take their employer contribution and join an exchange plan.
• Companies with 50 or more employees must offer coverage to employees or pay a $2,000 penalty per employee after their first 30 if at least one of their employees receives a tax credit. Waiting periods before insurance takes effect is limited to 90 days. Employers who offer coverage but whose employees receive tax credits will pay $3,000 for each worker receiving a tax credit.
• Insurers can no longer refuse to sell or renew policies because of an individual's health status. Health plans can no longer exclude coverage for pre-existing conditions. Insurers can't charge higher rates because of heath status, gender or other factors.
• Health plans will be prohibited from imposing annual limits on coverage.
• Health insurance exchanges will open in each state to individuals and small employers to comparison shop for standardized health packages.
• Credits will be available through exchanges for those whose income is above Medicaid eligibility and below 400 percent of poverty level who are not eligible for or offered other acceptable coverage.
• Medicaid eligibility will increase to 133 percent of poverty for all nonelderly individuals to ensure that people obtain affordable health care in the most efficient and appropriate manner. States will receive increased federal funding to cover these new populations.
• An annual health insurance provider fee will be Imposed across the health insurance sector according to insurers' market share to companies whose total premiums exceed $25 million.

2018
• 2018 Taxing "Cadillac" plans: An excise tax will be imposed on high-cost, employer-provided health plans beyond $27,500 for family coverage and $10,200 for single coverage; it will increase to $30,950 for families and $11,850 for individuals, retirees and employees in high-risk professions.

stevieray
03-23-2010, 08:08 AM
people don't have a right to healthcare, let alone health.

CoMoChief
03-23-2010, 08:13 AM
Whatever you say John Kerry.

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 08:18 AM
Whatever you say John Kerry.see this is typical Republican playbook. Marginalize disenting opinions from "others". Typecast the "others" with slogans or names that make yourselfs feel like the cool kids on the block. The "others" are just fools that should be demeaned for not seeing the righteousness of your positions. And not a single word of rebuttal of any substance.

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 08:20 AM
people don't have a right to healthcare, let alone health.Correct, on this I agree. It's not a "right". But, just because its not a "right" doesn't mean we shouldn't try to take of all our citzens basic health needs.

HonestChieffan
03-23-2010, 08:32 AM
BRC...Flip much?

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 08:34 AM
sounds like health care reform to me. Sounds like about frikkin time change.



Changes that would occur this year include:
<LI class=textBodyBlack itxtvisited="1">Dependent children could remain on their parents' health insurance (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35984435/ns/health-health_care/#) plans until age 26. <LI class=textBodyBlack itxtvisited="1">Senior citizens would get more help paying for drugs in Medicare.
People with health problems that left them uninsurable could qualify for coverage through a federal program.
New help for some uninsured: People with a medical condition (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35984435/ns/health-health_care/#) that has left them uninsurable may be able to enroll in a new federally subsidized insurance program that is to be established within 90 days. The legislation appropriates $5 billion for this, although that may not be enough to cover all who apply; it's not clear how much consumers would pay as their share of the cost. About 200,000 people are covered in similar state programs currently, at an estimated cost of $1 billion a year, says Karen Pollitz, a research professor at Georgetown University.
Discounts and free care in Medicare: The approximately 4 million Medicare beneficiaries who hit the so-called “doughnut hole” in the program’s drug plan will get a $250 rebate this year. Next year, their cost of drugs in the coverage gap will go down by 50 percent. Preventive care, such as some types of cancer screening, will be free of co-payments or deductibles starting in 2010.
Coverage of kids: Parents will be allowed to keep their children on their health insurance plan until age 26, unless the child is eligible for coverage through a job.

Insurance plans cannot exclude pre-existing medical conditions from coverage for children under age 19, although insurers could still reject those children outright for coverage in the individual market until 2014.

Tax credits for businesses: Businesses with fewer than 25 employees and average wages of less than $50,000 could qualify for a tax credit of up to 35 percent of the cost of their premiums.
Changes to insurance: All existing insurance plans will be barred from imposing lifetime caps on coverage. Restrictions will also be placed on annual limits on coverage. Insurers can no longer cancel insurance retroactively for things other than outright fraud.
Government oversight: Insurers must report how much they spend on medical care versus administrative costs, a step that later will be followed by tighter government review of premium increases.
New help for some uninsured: People with a medical condition (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35984435/ns/health-health_care/#) that has left them uninsurable may be able to enroll in a new federally subsidized insurance program that is to be established within 90 days. The legislation appropriates $5 billion for this, although that may not be enough to cover all who apply; it's not clear how much consumers would pay as their share of the cost. About 200,000 people are covered in similar state programs currently, at an estimated cost of $1 billion a year, says Karen Pollitz, a research professor at Georgetown University.
Discounts and free care in Medicare: The approximately 4 million Medicare beneficiaries who hit the so-called “doughnut hole” in the program’s drug plan will get a $250 rebate this year. Next year, their cost of drugs in the coverage gap will go down by 50 percent. Preventive care, such as some types of cancer screening, will be free of co-payments or deductibles starting in 2010.
Coverage of kids: Parents will be allowed to keep their children on their health insurance plan until age 26, unless the child is eligible for coverage through a job.

Insurance plans cannot exclude pre-existing medical conditions from coverage for children under age 19, although insurers could still reject those children outright for coverage in the individual market until 2014.
Tax credits for businesses: Businesses with fewer than 25 employees and average wages of less than $50,000 could qualify for a tax credit of up to 35 percent of the cost of their premiums.
Changes to insurance: All existing insurance plans will be barred from imposing lifetime caps on coverage. Restrictions will also be placed on annual limits on coverage. Insurers can no longer cancel insurance retroactively for things other than outright fraud.
Government oversight: Insurers must report how much they spend on medical care versus administrative costs, a step that later will be followed by tighter government review of premium increases.

Mr. Kotter
03-23-2010, 08:35 AM
OMG!!!

The world is gonna END!!! Soon!!! Run!!!!

OMG!!!

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 08:35 AM
BRC...Flip much?
see post #4.

HonestChieffan
03-23-2010, 08:42 AM
see post #4.

I'll wait till you change your position again.

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 08:47 AM
I'll wait till you change your position again.Stick to the Hannity and Beck playbook. It's working out well for your party now, isn't it?

InChiefsHell
03-23-2010, 08:51 AM
I didn't have time to read the novel you posted. Got a Cliff Notes version?

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 08:53 AM
I didn't have time to read the novel you posted. Got a Cliff Notes version?
It's better than what we got now. It could be made better later. If my only choice is to support this bill or keep the status quo.....I'll choose this bill. Because the status quo sucks worse.

HonestChieffan
03-23-2010, 08:55 AM
Stick to the Hannity and Beck playbook. It's working out well for your party now, isn't it?

And this comment is relevant?

HonestChieffan
03-23-2010, 08:58 AM
It's better than what we got now. It could be made better later. If my only choice is to support this bill or keep the status quo.....I'll choose this bill. Because the status quo sucks worse.

Was that the alternative in your mind? Really? Pick either No Change Forever or Change defined by this bill and nothing else? Fun making up extremes isn't it?

I used to do that with my son at about 6 years old. Either pick your room up or we will never ever ever go to McDonalds again as long as you live. Logic that works with a 6 year old seems to work for a lot of adults these days.

dirk digler
03-23-2010, 08:59 AM
And this comment is relevant?

About as relevant as all the threads you start.

Brock
03-23-2010, 09:01 AM
Nobody ever doubted that you were in favor of it, despite you saying you weren't.

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 09:43 AM
Was that the alternative in your mind? Really? Pick either No Change Forever or Change defined by this bill and nothing else? Fun making up extremes isn't it?

I used to do that with my son at about 6 years old. Either pick your room up or we will never ever ever go to McDonalds again as long as you live. Logic that works with a 6 year old seems to work for a lot of adults these days.
Again with the marginalization of others. Jeezzz do you even realize you are doing it?

Brock
03-23-2010, 09:47 AM
Again with the marginalization of others. Jeezzz do you even realize you are doing it?

Stick to the Hannity and Beck playbook. It's working out well for your party now, isn't it?

ROFL

HonestChieffan
03-23-2010, 09:52 AM
Again with the marginalization of others. Jeezzz do you even realize you are doing it?

Did you feel marginalized? Really?

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 09:54 AM
ROFLRead post #4. I'm no longer going to particpate in some posters BS of marginalizing and dismissing others viewpoints as invalid because they are different than your own.

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 09:59 AM
Did you feel marginalized? Really?No, but just because I don't allow others to try that BS on me doesn't mean that I'm going to particpate in their trying to pull that BS over me.

You can't be marginalized unless you allow it to happen. But, I don't have to particpate in conversations that the argument from the other side is that my 6 year old is smarter than you.

Brock
03-23-2010, 10:01 AM
Read post #4. I'm no longer going to particpate in some posters BS of marginalizing and dismissing others viewpoints as invalid because they are different than your own.

Sure. ROFL

HonestChieffan
03-23-2010, 10:13 AM
No, but just because I don't allow others to try that BS on me doesn't mean that I'm going to particpate in their trying to pull that BS over me.

You can't be marginalized unless you allow it to happen. But, I don't have to particpate in conversations that the argument from the other side is that my 6 year old is smarter than you.

Good. I had no intention of marginalizing you. I dont pay a lot of attention to that stuff anyway.

The Mad Crapper
03-23-2010, 10:15 AM
The bill is nothing but an expansion of medicaid. Payroll taxes will go up, and the IRS gets expanded by 15,000 employees.

Rejoice, Moonbats.

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 10:34 AM
The bill is nothing but an expansion of medicaid. Payroll taxes will go up, and the IRS gets expanded by 15,000 employees.

Rejoice, Moonbats.It's alive :)

True, its the biggest bill since medicare in the 60's. But your doomsday predictions are BS scare tactics of Beck and Hannity that you are just repeating.

bevischief
03-23-2010, 10:48 AM
The bill is nothing but an expansion of medicaid. Payroll taxes will go up, and the IRS gets expanded by 15,000 employees.

Rejoice, Moonbats.

They didn't include any more money to pay for them...

bevischief
03-23-2010, 10:53 AM
I am waiting till this new gov't agency starts making poilcy.

CoMoChief
03-23-2010, 11:01 AM
Correct, on this I agree. It's not a "right". But, just because its not a "right" doesn't mean we shouldn't try to take of all our citzens basic health needs.

At the expense of others? Since when is it my problem to pay for someone else's HC?

CoMoChief
03-23-2010, 11:04 AM
It's alive :)

True, its the biggest bill since medicare in the 60's. But your doomsday predictions are BS scare tactics of Beck and Hannity that you are just repeating.

Yes!!!! YES!!!!! More govt......that's what we NEED!!!! MORE corrupt bureaucrats in Washington controlling every part of our lives!!!!! I think they need to make a govt agency that regulates how much I can piss and shit.

Mr. Kotter
03-23-2010, 11:06 AM
At the expense of others? Since when is it my problem to pay for someone else's HC?

Since when is it my problem that you need police to protect you from thugs? Since when is it my problem that you need fire departments to keep your community from burning down? Since when is it my problem that we need the DHS or military to defend you against terrorists?

Reasonable people can disagree....but lack of access to basic healthcare due to affordability issues is a similar problem, and the a reasonable next step in the social contract of our ever emerging, ever more civilized republic.

Yes!!!! YES!!!!! More govt......that's what we NEED!!!! MORE corrupt bureaucrats in Washington controlling every part of our lives!!!!! I think they need to make a govt agency that regulates how much I can piss and shit.

It's less about more government, than it is about EFFECTIVE government. While often an oxy-moron, as a last resort government intervention is preferable to continued foot-dragging by a money-grubbing industry.

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 11:08 AM
The US Gov't is forcing some people to purchase something they don't want. Thats a bill killer to me.

When will the US Gov't force us to buy prescription drugs from a certain retailer ?


When General Motors needs to sell more cars to keep the union members working, what
could prevent the US gov't to force people to buy from General Motors/Obama Motors ?

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 11:08 AM
At the expense of others? Since when is it my problem to pay for someone else's HC?A legitamate point. Guess it comes down to what kind of society you want to live in. Do you want to live in an isolated society where I got mine, you get your own is the predominate philosphy or do you want to live in a place where we care about our fellow human beings and citzens?

mlyonsd
03-23-2010, 11:09 AM
and the a reasonable next step in the social contract of our ever emerging, ever more civilized republic.





Yes Comrade. We know already.

The Mad Crapper
03-23-2010, 11:09 AM
If subsidized HC is a "right", then so is welfare.

Question for the Moonbats: Why is it not my right to refuse to pay for it?

Brock
03-23-2010, 11:12 AM
A legitamate point. Guess it comes down to what kind of society you want to live in. Do you want to live in an isolated society where I got mine, you get your own is the predominate philosphy or do you want to live in a place where we are forced to pay for and care about our fellow human beings and citzens?

Of the two, I'd choose the former.

Iowanian
03-23-2010, 11:12 AM
Read post #4. I'm no longer going to particpate in some posters BS of marginalizing and dismissing others viewpoints as invalid because they are different than your own.

Obamunist must have sent out a play book this morning for you...



Let me make this clear, for the thick headed, simpled minded Dems who support this dumbass bullshit. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREE HEALTHCARE.

Warrior5
03-23-2010, 11:14 AM
If my only choice is to support this bill or keep the status quo.....I'll choose this bill. Because the status quo sucks worse.

BRC, please ask yourself: was this in fact your only choice, or is this a fallacy? In recent weeks, the President repeatedly claimed that "to vote yes on this bill is to vote for insuring 32 million Americans, and to vote no on this bill is to vote for the status quo."

Politicians do this all the time; it's part and parcel with the job.

The status quo does indeed suck, but in order for you not to be guilty of creating your own false dilemma, you would have to believe that Congress would've taken no further action on healthcare had this bill failed.

Is this what you believe?

The Mad Crapper
03-23-2010, 11:17 AM
Obamunist must have sent out a play book this morning for you...



Let me make this clear, for the thick headed, simpled minded Dems who support this dumbass bullshit. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREE HEALTHCARE.

B.O. also lied about the "5 days" a bill would be online before he signed it.

But the clown car media and O-Bots blithely ignore it.

Warrior5
03-23-2010, 11:21 AM
If subsidized HC is a "right", then so is welfare...

I would suggest that shelter is a more basic human need than healthcare.

Why hasn't someone introduced legislation for nationalized housing?

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 11:25 AM
Of the two, I'd choose the former.And there is nothing wrong with that choice. It's a legitamate point.

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 11:27 AM
Obamunist must have sent out a play book this morning for you...



Let me make this clear, for the thick headed, simpled minded Dems who support this dumbass bullshit. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREE HEALTHCARE.It's as old as the hills. Tear down others to feel good about yourself and your views. Was here long before us and will be long after we are worm food.

petegz28
03-23-2010, 11:27 AM
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BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 11:29 AM
BigRedChief--

Yesterday, we made history, and we could not have gotten this far without your work and dedication.

As one of our top supporters, I want to make sure you get a well-earned "thanks!" and an update about where we go from here, directly from the President.

So tomorrow afternoon -- Tuesday, March 23rd, at 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time -- we're holding a conference call with President Obama for committed volunteers like you.

There's no need to RSVP. Please just call in at 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time using the information below:

Call-in #: (877) 317-9214
Conference ID: 64659310

We've come a long way, and it's thanks to you.

Talk soon,

Jeremy

Jeremy Bird
Deputy Director
Organizing for America

CoMoChief
03-23-2010, 11:29 AM
A legitamate point. Guess it comes down to what kind of society you want to live in. Do you want to live in an isolated society where I got mine, you get your own is the predominate philosphy or do you want to live in a place where we care about our fellow human beings and citzens?

It's not my responsibility to make sure the person that lives next door to me is healthy. Plain and simple. The fact that people will get fined for not purchasing the govt plan is nothing more than the govt wanting more control over people. Otherwise there wouldn't be a fine.

petegz28
03-23-2010, 11:30 AM
BigRedChief--

Yesterday, we made history, and we could not have gotten this far without your work and dedication.

As one of our top supporters, I want to make sure you get a well-earned "thanks!" and an update about where we go from here, directly from the President.

So tomorrow afternoon -- Tuesday, March 23rd, at 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time -- we're holding a conference call with President Obama for committed volunteers like you.

There's no need to RSVP. Please just call in at 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time using the information below:

Call-in #: (877) 317-9214
Conference ID: 64659310

We've come a long way, and it's thanks to you.

Talk soon,

Jeremy

Jeremy Bird
Deputy Director
Organizing for America

Ah, I get it. Now you are part of ObamCorPS

The Mad Crapper
03-23-2010, 11:30 AM
I would suggest that shelter is a more basic human need than healthcare.

Why hasn't someone introduced legislation for nationalized housing?

Oh, that worked out like a charm. ROFL

Wait until the next wave of foreclosures hit.

Good article on moonbat policies like rent control, that do more harm than good (like all moonbat ideas):

Sanity in 'Frisco
CONGRATULATIONS are in order for the San Francisco Weekly, for an informative article that introduces sanity into a subject where insanity is the norm -- namely, rent control in San Francisco. What has happened under stringent rent control laws in the city by the bay is what has happened in virtually every other city around the world where such laws have been passed. But it will still be news to rent control advocates, who seldom bother to get the facts.

According to the San Francisco Weekly, new construction of multifamily housing dropped by 32 percent within a decade after the city's rent control law was passed in 1979. Over the past 10 years, the number of rental units in the city has declined absolutely by 7,500. The vacancy rate is below one percent. Nor has rent control meant low rents. The average rent for a one-bedroom apartment in San Francisco is nearly $2,000 a month.

None of this is unique to San Francisco. A study of 16 cities by William Tucker of the Cato Institute showed "that the advertised rents of available apartments in rent-regulated cities are dramatically higher than they are in cities without rent control." In view of this, it is not surprising that he also found homelessness more prevalent in cities with rent control.

How can this be, when the whole purpose of rent control is to keep rents down? First of all, the purpose of any policy tells you absolutely nothing about what will actually happen under that policy. Too many disastrous laws get passed because those who pass them win political points for their good intentions and nobody bothers to check up later to see what actually happened.

The San Francisco Board of Supervisors has recently commissioned the first official study ever done of the effects of rent control in the city.

Imagine! The first rent control law was passed in 1979 and has been amended more than 50 times in the two decades since then -- usually tightening the controls -- but nobody in government has yet bothered to find out what the actual effect has been.

Politics is not about empirical realities, but about popular images. So long as the image of rent control is good, it wins votes at election time -- and that is what it is all about, as far as politicians are concerned.

Meanwhile, there is a whole movement of rent-control activists and tenants' rights advocates who say things like, "Housing is not a commodity." Mindless mantras like that make them look and feel like the morally anointed, and apparently that is good enough for them. Who needs facts when you have myths that serve your purposes?

The biggest myth is that rent control helps the poor. It helps those poor people who happen to have an apartment when rent control laws are passed -- but it also helps the affluent and even the rich who happen to be on the inside looking out. But, as the housing supply dries up, who gets left out?

The homeless people on the streets are certainly not the rich.

Studies in both Cambridge, Mass., and Berkeley, Calif., showed that "rent-controlled apartments were concentrated among highly educated professionals." In New York, people living in rent-controlled apartments have included the president of the New York Stock Exchange and even Hollywood stars who keep such apartments to use when they happen to be in town.

San Francisco's rent-control law, like those in other cities, was passed as a "temporary" measure to deal with some immediate crisis -- in this case, the runaway inflation of the late 1970s. A cynic once said that there is nothing more permanent than a temporary government policy. Rent control laws were also passed as "temporary" measures in London and Paris during the First World War -- and remained in force on past the Second World War.

Since there are always more tenants than landlords, and more people who don't understand economics than people who do, it is nearly impossible to get the voters in a community with rent control to vote it out. However, many state legislatures across the country have taken that decision out of local hands by passing laws forbidding cities and towns from having rent control. When rent control was gotten rid of this way in Massachusetts, new housing began to be built in formerly rent-controlled communities for the first time in decades.

It can be done. But it is unlikely to be done in San Francisco. Nor is the liberal state legislature likely to act.

There is in fact a measure on this year's ballot to tighten rent control in San Francisco some more.




http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell082100.asp

Iowanian
03-23-2010, 11:31 AM
It's as old as the hills. Tear down others to feel good about yourself and your views. Was here long before us and will be long after we are worm food.

I know you like to pretend you don't, but you'd spoon eat a cup of Obama's dump if he said it was delicious.

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 11:32 AM
Ah, I get it. Now you are part of ObamCorPSBeen reprting back about your activites for months. You should hear a knock at the door anytime. They just have a few questions for ya.

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 11:33 AM
I know you like to pretend you don't, but you'd spoon eat a cup of Obama's dump if he said it was delicious.We have a lot more in common than you think.

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 11:35 AM
It's not my responsibility to make sure the person that lives next door to me is healthy. Plain and simple.And again, thats a legitamate viewpoint. Perfectly acceptable to me. I don't think your immoral, an idiot or anything so negative that you need to raked over the coals for being selfish. I got mine, you get your own mentality was a major reason for the creation of the largest middle class in the history of the world. It has its advantages.

Otter
03-23-2010, 11:37 AM
Oh, that worked out like a charm. ROFL

Wait until the next wave of foreclosures hit.

Good article on moonbat policies like rent control, that do more harm than good (like all moonbat ideas):

Sanity in 'Frisco
CONGRATULATIONS are in order for the San Francisco Weekly, for an informative article ...

One of the coolest cities is the world turned into a radical left cluster ****. I used to love going there for work.

The politicians of that city and state need to be lined up and shot.

The Mad Crapper
03-23-2010, 11:39 AM
One of the coolest cities is the world turned into a radical left cluster ****. I used to love going there for work.

The politicians of that city and state need to be lined up and shot.

Berkeley, too.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512O-bpWa4L._SL500_AA240_.jpg

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 11:42 AM
Been reprting back about your activites for months. You should hear a knock at the door anytime. They just have a few questions for ya.

The IRS will soon have 15,000 more agents...so what you just posted is a
strong possibility :spock:

CoMoChief
03-23-2010, 11:46 AM
Since when is it my problem that you need police to protect you from thugs? Since when is it my problem that you need fire departments to keep your community from burning down? Since when is it my problem that we need the DHS or military to defend you against terrorists?

Reasonable people can disagree....but lack of access to basic healthcare due to affordability issues is a similar problem, and the a reasonable next step in the social contract of our ever emerging, ever more civilized republic.


So you firmly believe in socialism.....thanks for clearing that up.

I guess it's your responsibility as well to make sure people have roofs over their heads and food to eat.

By the way, fire depts and police depts are controlled by the state, not federal legislation forcing people to pay for a service they don't need.

When is it my problem that I have to pay for some whore to get an abortion? Most of these people that are now going to be covered don't even take care of themselves to begin with. you thought ER's and hospitals were crowded now, just wait til people go to the emergency room because they have a ****ing fever.

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 11:48 AM
BRC,


If the bill is so good, why is Obama going on the road to resell the dam thing ?

How many gallons of fuel will his jet plane be using on this Obama care Resale tour ?

If you think our health insurance premiums will be going down, you are a FOOL with a

capital F.


You are part of a fanatical group of people that think you know what is BEST for me and

my family. Iowanian was spot on with his take about you slurping up a cup full of

Obama's dump. Obama care FORCES us to purchase something we may not want.

Spott
03-23-2010, 11:48 AM
It's not my responsibility to make sure the person that lives next door to me is healthy. Plain and simple. The fact that people will get fined for not purchasing the govt plan is nothing more than the govt wanting more control over people. Otherwise there wouldn't be a fine.

You should stop using common sense and logic. It is our responsibility as American citizens to work harder and pay more taxes so that all the the lazy and irresponsible people can get free health insurance and monthly welfare checks.

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 11:50 AM
It's not my responsibility to make sure the person that lives next door to me is healthy. Plain and simple. The fact that people will get fined for not purchasing the govt plan is nothing more than the govt wanting more control over people. Otherwise there wouldn't be a fine.



:clap:

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 11:52 AM
BRC,


If the bill is so good, why is Obama going on the road to resell the dam thing ?

How many gallons of fuel will his jet plane be using on this Obama care Resale tour ?

If you think our health insurance premiums will be going down, you are a FOOL with a

capital F.


You are part of a fanatical group of people that think you know what is BEST for me and

my family. Iowanian was spot on with his take about you slurping up a cup full of

Obama's dump. Obama care FORCES us to purchase something we may not want.again with the marginalization. You are a fantic so I don't have to consider your opinion. jeezzzzz you need to think for yourself. Come up with some counter points instead of demonizing an alternative viewpoint.

The Mad Crapper
03-23-2010, 11:53 AM
You should stop using common sense and logic. It is our responsibility as American citizens to work harder and pay more taxes so that all the the lazy and irresponsible people can get free health insurance and monthly welfare checks.

Yup. This bill is nothing more than an expansion of medicaid so that it covers everybody, not just unwed mothers.

Our payroll taxes will double.

Mr. Kotter
03-23-2010, 12:01 PM
Yes Comrade. We know already.

Well, some of us rural state types have to keep feeding that redneck simpleton stereotype.

I'll politely decline, but you go ahead and be my guest.

;)

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 12:13 PM
again with the marginalization. You are a fantic so I don't have to consider your opinion. jeezzzzz you need to think for yourself. Come up with some counter points instead of demonizing an alternative viewpoint.



Your viewpoint is forcing me and my family and other Americans to do something we don't want. Many of us don't want what your are shoving down our throats. You call that demonizing, we call that protecting our interest, which is our family and our future.

The arrogance you show about what is BEST for me and MY FAMILY is
mind blowing to say the least.

You are the one that needs to think for yourself...instead of cutting and pasting everything you think/feel is appropriate for me and my family.

Obama has no right to force any American to purchase anything they don't want. But now its the law. Arrogance at its trueist form is what just happened with Ocare.

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 12:19 PM
Your viewpoint is forcing me and my family and other Americans to do something we don't want. Many of us don't want what your are shoving down our throats. You call that demonizing, we call that protecting our interest, which is our family and our future.

The arrogance you show about what is BEST for me and MY FAMILY is
mind blowing to say the least.

You are the one that needs to think for yourself...instead of cutting and pasting everything you think/feel is appropriate for me and my family.

Obama has no right to force any American to purchase anything they don't want. But now its the law. Arrogance at its trueist form is what just happened with Ocare.I have no clue what is best for your family, only you know that answer.

You are demonizing my position, not pointing out the flaws in my position. I'm arrogant, I'm a fanatic etc. Its just a way for you to dismiss me. It's BS and I'll call you and the rest of your brethren on it from now on.

I've already said in the opening post that I have a problem with the part of the plan that forces people to buy insurance. I'm not in agreement with that inm the slighest.

I would venture that on most issues facing us as americans me and you can probably agree on 80-90% of those issues. and if thats true lableing me a fantic is just pure displacement.

dirk digler
03-23-2010, 12:19 PM
Your viewpoint is forcing me and my family and other Americans to do something we don't want. Many of us don't want what your are shoving down our throats. You call that demonizing, we call that protecting our interest, which is our family and our future.

The arrogance you show about what is BEST for me and MY FAMILY is
mind blowing to say the least.

You are the one that needs to think for yourself...instead of cutting and pasting everything you think/feel is appropriate for me and my family.

Obama has no right to force any American to purchase anything they don't want. But now its the law. Arrogance at its trueist form is what just happened with Ocare.

Your viewpoint from 2001-2008 was forcing me and my family and other Americans to do something we don't want. Many of us didn't want what your are shoving down our throats. You call that demonizing, we call that protecting our interest, which is our family and our future.

The arrogance you show about what is BEST for me and MY FAMILY is
mind blowing to say the least.

You are the one that needs to think for yourself...instead of cutting and pasting everything you think/feel is appropriate for me and my family.

HonestChieffan
03-23-2010, 12:21 PM
Well, some of us rural state types have to keep feeding that redneck simpleton stereotype.

I'll politely decline, but you go ahead and be my guest.

;)

Id love to hear your fleshed out description of what makes up that redneck simpleton. Could you please give a paragraph or so profile of "that guy"?

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 12:26 PM
[QUOTE=BigRedChief;6626978]I have no clue what is best for your family, only you know that answer. [QUOTE]

That might be the smartest thing you've ever said on this subject. You are dam right you don't have a f'n clue about whats best for me and my family and our future.

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 12:27 PM
Your viewpoint from 2001-2008 was forcing me and my family and other Americans to do something we don't want. Many of us didn't want what your are shoving down our throats. You call that demonizing, we call that protecting our interest, which is our family and our future.

The arrogance you show about what is BEST for me and MY FAMILY is
mind blowing to say the least.

You are the one that needs to think for yourself...instead of cutting and pasting everything you think/feel is appropriate for me and my family.

HAH, what did the gov't force you to buy, other than more debt ?

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 12:33 PM
[quote=BigRedChief;6626978]I have no clue what is best for your family, only you know that answer. [quote]

That might be the smartest thing you've ever said on this subject. You are dam right you don't have a f'n clue about whats best for me and my family and our future.see there you go again. Responding to the point that I agree with you on but ignoring the other points of disagreement.

morphius
03-23-2010, 12:35 PM
I guess for me I would have rather seen Health Care reform along with this Health Insurance reform.

dirk digler
03-23-2010, 12:36 PM
HAH, what did the gov't force you to buy, other than more debt ?

war, debt and having to listen to Sara Palin

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 12:36 PM
BRC--

I'm writing to you on a great day for America.

This morning, I gathered with members of Congress, my administration, and hardworking volunteers from every part of the country to sign comprehensive health care reform into law. Thanks to the immeasurable efforts of so many, the dream of reform is now a reality.

The bill I just signed puts Americans in charge of our own health care by enacting three key changes:

It establishes the toughest patient protections in history.

It guarantees all Americans affordable health insurance options, extending coverage to 32 million who are currently uninsured.

And it reduces the cost of care -- cutting over 1 trillion dollars from the federal deficit over the next two decades.

To ensure a successful, stable transition, many of these changes will phase into full effect over the next several years.

But for millions of Americans, many of the benefits of reform will begin this year -- some even taking effect this afternoon. Here are just a few examples:

Small businesses will receive significant tax cuts, this year, to help them afford health coverage for all their employees.

Seniors will receive a rebate to reduce drug costs not yet covered under Medicare.

Young people will be allowed coverage under their parents' plan until the age of 26.

Early retirees will receive help to reduce premium costs.

Children will be protected against discrimination on the basis of medical history.

Uninsured Americans with pre-existing conditions can join a special high-risk pool to get the coverage they need, starting in just 90 days.

Insured Americans will be protected from seeing their insurance revoked when they get sick, or facing restrictive annual limits on the care they receive.

All Americans will benefit from significant new investments to train primary care doctors, nurses, and public health professionals, and the creation of state-level consumer assistance programs to help all patients understand and defend our new rights.

As I've said many times, and as I know to be true, this astounding victory could not have been achieved without your tireless efforts.

So as we celebrate this great day, I want to invite you to add your name where it belongs: alongside mine as a co-signer of this historic legislation. Organizing for America will record the names of co-signers as a permanent commemoration of those who came together to make this moment possible -- all of you who refused to give up until the dream of many generations for affordable, quality care for all Americans was finally fulfilled.

So, if you haven't yet, please add your name as a proud health care reform co-signer today:

http://my.barackobama.com/cosigner (http://my.barackobama.com/page/m/55c107ec/50743095/ea467e33/118873eb/2380682191/VEsH/)

Please accept my thanks for your voice, for your courage, and for your indispensable partnership in the great work of creating change.

History, and I, are in your debt.

President Barack Obama

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 12:37 PM
I guess for me I would have rather seen Health Care reform along with this Health Insurance reform.You and me both. But, it is what it is. This bill or nothing for another 10-20 years before some President trys again.

The Mad Crapper
03-23-2010, 12:39 PM
BRC,


If the bill is so good, why is Obama going on the road to resell the dam thing ?

How many gallons of fuel will his jet plane be using on this Obama care Resale tour ?

If you think our health insurance premiums will be going down, you are a FOOL with a

capital F.


You are part of a fanatical group of people that think you know what is BEST for me and

my family. Iowanian was spot on with his take about you slurping up a cup full of

Obama's dump. Obama care FORCES us to purchase something we may not want.

This guy describes moonbats ie BRC to a tee:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1lmaYCKR6k

The Mad Crapper
03-23-2010, 12:41 PM
BRC...Flip much?

Pffffffft.

He was in the tank the whole time. :rolleyes:

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 12:42 PM
[quote=Chief Henry;6627001][quote=BigRedChief;6626978]I have no clue what is best for your family, only you know that answer. see there you go again. Responding to the point that I agree with you on but ignoring the other points of disagreement.

You don't get it at all ! The bill just passed is forcing change on what we have. You are promoting that :cuss: change whether you realize it or not.

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 12:42 PM
HAH, what did the gov't force you to buy, other than more debt ?$1.1 trillion debt and counting for a needless war in Iraq. $800 billion in debt for medicare drugs. $1.1 trillion in tax cuts where 90% of the money went to the wealthiest 10% of Americans. No stem cell research for cancer treatment, people hating us all over the world because of George W.'s arrogance, Gitmo etc etc

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 12:43 PM
Pffffffft.

He was in the tank the whole time. :rolleyes:

Like Stupak :rolleyes:

The Mad Crapper
03-23-2010, 12:44 PM
No stem cell research for cancer treatment

Nobody has died of cancer since obama started throwing our tax dollars at embryonic research again.

:ZZZ:

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 12:44 PM
[quote=BigRedChief;6627017][quote=Chief Henry;6627001]

You don't get it at all ! The bill just passed is forcing change on what we have. You are promoting that :cuss: change whether you realize it or not.Yeah blame me, its all my fault. What is said on this board affects the national debate on so many levels....:rolleyes:

The Mad Crapper
03-23-2010, 12:44 PM
Like Stupak :rolleyes:

Yup. Just another Obamawhore.

The Mad Crapper
03-23-2010, 12:45 PM
[quote=Chief Henry;6627057][quote=BigRedChief;6627017]Yeah blame me, its all my fault.

It is your fault. You and the millions of other assclowns who voted for B.O. and continue to toss his salad.

Chocolate Hog
03-23-2010, 12:49 PM
I like how Nan Nan was talking about how this bill will save lives meanwhile the part that does that won't even kick in til 2014 when most of these assclowns won't even be in office. Good job Captain Planet.

Inspector
03-23-2010, 12:51 PM
For the most part I, personally, support actions that make the government smaller and less intrusive in our lives.

I enjoy the freedom to donate to charities that help those who are in need. Thankfully I'm not forced at gunpoint to make those donations to help others or I, like others, might not feel quite so charitable if I were. Millions for charity, not one penny for tribute.

It feels kinda weird to me for my employees mandating, by threat of violence, that I purchase any products available in the market place. Any free market products.

Born, raised and educated in the U.S.A. makes me adverse to the suggestion that my government might handle things in a less than "American" way - the way I was raised with. We want to help our fellow citizens but we want to do that on our own terms.

Something just doesn't seem right to me.

I know this viewpoint does not set well with others and that's OK. At this point in time and on this subject I'm do not seek nor require approval from anyone but my lord and savior.

And I promised myself that I would not post on any of these kinds of threads. Dang it!! Another broken promise.

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 12:54 PM
And I promised myself that I would not post on any of these kinds of threads. Dang it!! Another broken promise.:cuss: Obama!

but seriously, your point is a valid one. A real and well thought out concern.

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 12:56 PM
I like how Nan Nan was talking about how this bill will save lives meanwhile the part that does that won't even kick in til 2014 when most of these assclowns won't even be in office. Good job Captain Planet.A lot kicks in in the first year. Here's the schedule.

Within the first year
Young adults will be able stay on their parents' insurance until their 27th birthday.
Seniors will get a $250 rebate to help fill the "doughnut hole" in Medicare prescription drug coverage, which falls between the $2,700 initial limit and when catastrophic coverage kicks in at $6,154.
Insurers will be barred from imposing exclusions on children with pre-existing conditions. Pools will cover those with pre-existing health conditions until health care coverage exchanges are operational.
Insurers will not be able to rescind policies to avoid paying medical bills when a person becomes ill.
Lifetime limits on benefits and restrictive annual limits will be prohibited.
New plans must provide coverage for preventive services without co-pays. All plans must comply by 2018.
A temporary reinsurance program will help offset costs of coverage for companies that provide early retiree health benefits for those ages 55 to 64.
New plans will be required to implement an appeals process for coverage determinations and claims.
Adoption tax credit and assistance exclusion will increase by $1,000. The bill makes the credit refundable and extends it through 2011.
A 10 percent tax will be imposed on amounts paid for indoor tanning services on or after July 1.
Businesses with fewer than 50 employees will get tax credits covering 35 percent of their health care premiums, increasing to 50 percent by 2014.

2011
Medicare will provide free annual wellness visits and personalized prevention plans. New plans will be required to cover preventive services with no co-pay.
States can offer home- and community-based services to the disabled through Medicaid rather than institutional care beginning October 1.
A 50 percent discount will be provided on brand-name drugs for Prescription Drug Plan or Medicare Advantage enrollees. Additional discounts on brand-name and generic drugs will be phased in to completely close the "doughnut hole" by 2020.
Additional tax for health savings account withdrawals before age 65 for nonqualified medical expenses will increase from 10 percent to 20 percent. Additional tax for Archer medical savings account withdrawals not used for qualified medical expenses will increase from 15 percent to 20 percent.
A plan to provide a vehicle for small businesses to offer tax-free benefits will be created. This would ease the small employer's administrative burden of sponsoring a cafeteria plan.
The Medicare payroll tax will increase from 1.45 percent to 2.35 percent for individuals earning more than $200,000 and married filing jointly above $250,000.

2013
Health plans must implement uniform standards for electronic exchange of health information to reduce paperwork and administrative costs.
Contributions to flexible savings accounts will be limited to $2,500 per year, indexed by the Consumer Price Index in subsequent years.
The Employer Medicare Part D subsidy deduction will be eliminated. Employers will lose the tax deduction for subsidizing prescription drug plans for Medicare Part D-eligible retirees.
There will be increases to the income threshold from 7.5 percent to 10 percent of adjusted gross income. Those older than 65 can claim the 7.5 percent deduction through 2016.
The hospital insurance tax will increase 0.9 percentage points for those earning more than $200,000 ($250,000 for married filing jointly), and it includes net investment income.
A 2.9 percent excise tax on the first sale of medical devices will be established. Excepted are eyeglasses, contact lenses, hearing aids or other items for individual use.

2014
Citizens will be required to have acceptable coverage or pay a penalty of $95 in 2014, $325 in 2015, $695 (or up to 2.5 percent of income) in 2016. Families will pay half the amount for children, up to a cap of $2,250 per family. After 2016, penalties are indexed to Consumer Price Index.
Workers who are exempt from individual responsibility for coverage but don't qualify for tax credits can take their employer contribution and join an exchange plan.
Companies with 50 or more employees must offer coverage to employees or pay a $2,000 penalty per employee after their first 30 if at least one of their employees receives a tax credit. Waiting periods before insurance takes effect is limited to 90 days. Employers who offer coverage but whose employees receive tax credits will pay $3,000 for each worker receiving a tax credit.
Insurers can no longer refuse to sell or renew policies because of an individual's health status. Health plans can no longer exclude coverage for pre-existing conditions. Insurers can't charge higher rates because of heath status, gender or other factors.
Health plans will be prohibited from imposing annual limits on coverage.
Health insurance exchanges will open in each state to individuals and small employers to comparison shop for standardized health packages.
Credits will be available through exchanges for those whose income is above Medicaid eligibility and below 400 percent of poverty level who are not eligible for or offered other acceptable coverage.
Medicaid eligibility will increase to 133 percent of poverty for all nonelderly individuals to ensure that people obtain affordable health care in the most efficient and appropriate manner. States will receive increased federal funding to cover these new populations.
An annual health insurance provider fee will be Imposed across the health insurance sector according to insurers' market share to companies whose total premiums exceed $25 million.

2018
2018 Taxing "Cadillac" plans: An excise tax will be imposed on high-cost, employer-provided health plans beyond $27,500 for family coverage and $10,200 for single coverage; it will increase to $30,950 for families and $11,850 for individuals, retirees and employees in high-risk professions.

CoMoChief
03-23-2010, 01:00 PM
I like how Nan Nan was talking about how this bill will save lives meanwhile the part that does that won't even kick in til 2014 when most of these assclowns won't even be in office. Good job Captain Planet.
Obama is great!

HonestChieffan
03-23-2010, 01:05 PM
I love how they spin the thing on kids staying on Parents HC till 26. Jesus H Christ, you want to pay for your kids till the government says?

Hello Government.

Any kid still on the tit at 26 is doomed.

Chocolate Hog
03-23-2010, 01:12 PM
A lot kicks in in the first year. Here's the schedule.

Within the first year
Young adults will be able stay on their parents' insurance until their 27th birthday.
Seniors will get a $250 rebate to help fill the "doughnut hole" in Medicare prescription drug coverage, which falls between the $2,700 initial limit and when catastrophic coverage kicks in at $6,154.
Insurers will be barred from imposing exclusions on children with pre-existing conditions. Pools will cover those with pre-existing health conditions until health care coverage exchanges are operational.
Insurers will not be able to rescind policies to avoid paying medical bills when a person becomes ill.
Lifetime limits on benefits and restrictive annual limits will be prohibited.
New plans must provide coverage for preventive services without co-pays. All plans must comply by 2018.
A temporary reinsurance program will help offset costs of coverage for companies that provide early retiree health benefits for those ages 55 to 64.
New plans will be required to implement an appeals process for coverage determinations and claims.
Adoption tax credit and assistance exclusion will increase by $1,000. The bill makes the credit refundable and extends it through 2011.
A 10 percent tax will be imposed on amounts paid for indoor tanning services on or after July 1.
Businesses with fewer than 50 employees will get tax credits covering 35 percent of their health care premiums, increasing to 50 percent by 2014.

2011
Medicare will provide free annual wellness visits and personalized prevention plans. New plans will be required to cover preventive services with no co-pay.
States can offer home- and community-based services to the disabled through Medicaid rather than institutional care beginning October 1.
A 50 percent discount will be provided on brand-name drugs for Prescription Drug Plan or Medicare Advantage enrollees. Additional discounts on brand-name and generic drugs will be phased in to completely close the "doughnut hole" by 2020.
Additional tax for health savings account withdrawals before age 65 for nonqualified medical expenses will increase from 10 percent to 20 percent. Additional tax for Archer medical savings account withdrawals not used for qualified medical expenses will increase from 15 percent to 20 percent.
A plan to provide a vehicle for small businesses to offer tax-free benefits will be created. This would ease the small employer's administrative burden of sponsoring a cafeteria plan.
The Medicare payroll tax will increase from 1.45 percent to 2.35 percent for individuals earning more than $200,000 and married filing jointly above $250,000.

2013
Health plans must implement uniform standards for electronic exchange of health information to reduce paperwork and administrative costs.
Contributions to flexible savings accounts will be limited to $2,500 per year, indexed by the Consumer Price Index in subsequent years.
The Employer Medicare Part D subsidy deduction will be eliminated. Employers will lose the tax deduction for subsidizing prescription drug plans for Medicare Part D-eligible retirees.
There will be increases to the income threshold from 7.5 percent to 10 percent of adjusted gross income. Those older than 65 can claim the 7.5 percent deduction through 2016.
The hospital insurance tax will increase 0.9 percentage points for those earning more than $200,000 ($250,000 for married filing jointly), and it includes net investment income.
A 2.9 percent excise tax on the first sale of medical devices will be established. Excepted are eyeglasses, contact lenses, hearing aids or other items for individual use.

2014
Citizens will be required to have acceptable coverage or pay a penalty of $95 in 2014, $325 in 2015, $695 (or up to 2.5 percent of income) in 2016. Families will pay half the amount for children, up to a cap of $2,250 per family. After 2016, penalties are indexed to Consumer Price Index.
Workers who are exempt from individual responsibility for coverage but don't qualify for tax credits can take their employer contribution and join an exchange plan.
Companies with 50 or more employees must offer coverage to employees or pay a $2,000 penalty per employee after their first 30 if at least one of their employees receives a tax credit. Waiting periods before insurance takes effect is limited to 90 days. Employers who offer coverage but whose employees receive tax credits will pay $3,000 for each worker receiving a tax credit.
Insurers can no longer refuse to sell or renew policies because of an individual's health status. Health plans can no longer exclude coverage for pre-existing conditions. Insurers can't charge higher rates because of heath status, gender or other factors.
Health plans will be prohibited from imposing annual limits on coverage.
Health insurance exchanges will open in each state to individuals and small employers to comparison shop for standardized health packages.
Credits will be available through exchanges for those whose income is above Medicaid eligibility and below 400 percent of poverty level who are not eligible for or offered other acceptable coverage.
Medicaid eligibility will increase to 133 percent of poverty for all nonelderly individuals to ensure that people obtain affordable health care in the most efficient and appropriate manner. States will receive increased federal funding to cover these new populations.
An annual health insurance provider fee will be Imposed across the health insurance sector according to insurers' market share to companies whose total premiums exceed $25 million.

2018
2018 Taxing "Cadillac" plans: An excise tax will be imposed on high-cost, employer-provided health plans beyond $27,500 for family coverage and $10,200 for single coverage; it will increase to $30,950 for families and $11,850 for individuals, retirees and employees in high-risk professions.

Yea but Harvard did a study that said 18k a year will still die. For that arrogant twat to act like her facism is saving everyone simply isn't true.

Mr. Kotter
03-23-2010, 01:14 PM
Id love to hear your fleshed out description of what makes up that redneck simpleton. Could you please give a paragraph or so profile of "that guy"?

Such folks usually conflate a welfare state with a reasonable safety net, for "socialism." They can be recognized by their blind allegiance to anything Limbaugh-Hannity-and-Beck have to say about how "evil" our government is, and how any disagreement with them makes one a "Marxist." They also reject nearly any and all government action and addressing of significant social problems as "unconstitutional" meddling and intrusion into "state's rights." Such folks have refused to study constitutional law and the nature of our republic, preferring to lament the dire direction of our forsaken nature as it drifts ever further from a utopian land of perverse "liberty and freedom" that in their imagination existed 200+ years ago at a time and place far different from the nation we are today....and, in truth, from a utopian land that never ever really existed in the first place--except in their own mistaken interpretation of our founding period.

In other words, yeah....people like you, patty, BEP, TJ, and the other freak fringe elements on the lunatic fringe of the far "right" or libertarian edge.

Brock
03-23-2010, 01:26 PM
A 10 percent tax will be imposed on amounts paid for indoor tanning services on or after July 1.


Take that, Big Tanning.

HonestChieffan
03-23-2010, 01:29 PM
Such folks usually conflate a welfare state with a reasonable safety net, for "socialism." They can be recognized by their blind allegiance to anything Limbaugh-Hannity-and-Beck have to say about how "evil" our government is, and how any disagreement with them makes one a "Marxist." They also reject nearly any and all government action and addressing of significant social problems as "unconstitutional" meddling and intrusion into "state's rights." Such folks have refused to study constitutional law and the nature of our republic, preferring to lament the dire direction of our forsaken nature as it drifts ever further from a utopian land of perverse "liberty and freedom" that in their imagination existed 200+ years ago at a time and place far different from the nation we are today....and, in truth, from a utopian land that never ever really existed in the first place--except in their own mistaken interpretation of our founding period.

In other words, yeah....people like you, patty, BEP, TJ, and the other freak fringe elements on the lunatic fringe of the far "right" or libertarian edge.

Nice job. Is that your perception of a lot of people?

You really believe that people to the right of you feel no social obligations at all? And that those people have that limited an understanding of the constitution?

Before there was the far right talkers, did these people exist? And where do you believe they got information? Do you think honestly that people to the right of you are that uninformed, poorly educated unread and ignorant?

What is there about the desire for liberty, freedom, self determination that you find perverse? Do you really think that people who desire to work hard, own a business or do an job well and earn a reward are somehow beneath your respect?

I really don't think you believe what you wrote describes that vast majority of people that you define as redneck simpletons. Im hoping you wrote that in some attempt to create a bit of controversy and in some manner address my question.

What would bother me more is that I have to wonder if you do in fact believe that as you drive through the midwest, through small towns and communities that you feel that all those pickup driving farmers, ranchers, small town business people are just a bunch of unwashed rednecks that you seem to have such contempt for.

mlyonsd
03-23-2010, 01:39 PM
Take that, Big Tanning.

Another brilliant idea. Next up, a special tax on Big Macs and Whoppers.

The funny thing the first idea was to tax elective cosmetic procedures....like Botox. I think once Nancy heard that she probably fainted.

Things like the tanning tax are just another example of why the funding for this HC system fraudulant in that part of it is based on diminishing revenue. Its also an example of what to expect more of in the future, government controlled behavior.

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 01:41 PM
Such folks usually conflate a welfare state with a reasonable safety net, for "socialism." They can be recognized by their blind allegiance to anything Limbaugh-Hannity-and-Beck have to say about how "evil" our government is, and how any disagreement with them makes one a "Marxist." They also reject nearly any and all government action and addressing of significant social problems as "unconstitutional" meddling and intrusion into "state's rights." Such folks have refused to study constitutional law and the nature of our republic, preferring to lament the dire direction of our forsaken nature as it drifts ever further from a utopian land of perverse "liberty and freedom" that in their imagination existed 200+ years ago at a time and place far different from the nation we are today....and, in truth, from a utopian land that never ever really existed in the first place--except in their own mistaken interpretation of our founding period.

In other words, yeah....people like you, patty, BEP, TJ, and the other freak fringe elements on the lunatic fringe of the far "right" or libertarian edge.A lot of the same things I've been harping on this am. If you are the "others", you are the Marxist fringe and a fantaic that are not worthy of consideration. Dismissed because you are too stupid to see their superior viewpoint.

mlyonsd
03-23-2010, 01:41 PM
Nice job. Is that your perception of a lot of people?

You really believe that people to the right of you feel no social obligations at all? And that those people have that limited an understanding of the constitution?

Before there was the far right talkers, did these people exist? And where do you believe they got information? Do you think honestly that people to the right of you are that uninformed, poorly educated unread and ignorant?

What is there about the desire for liberty, freedom, self determination that you find perverse? Do you really think that people who desire to work hard, own a business or do an job well and earn a reward are somehow beneath your respect?

I really don't think you believe what you wrote describes that vast majority of people that you define as redneck simpletons. Im hoping you wrote that in some attempt to create a bit of controversy and in some manner address my question.

What would bother me more is that I have to wonder if you do in fact believe that as you drive through the midwest, through small towns and communities that you feel that all those pickup driving farmers, ranchers, small town business people are just a bunch of unwashed rednecks that you seem to have such contempt for.

Don't take Kotter seriously. He might claim to be a democrat from South Dakota but even our Dem Rep. Stephanie Herseth is a simpleton in his eyes because she voted no on the bill. Kotter doesn't come close to representing the 99% of us simpleton in the state.

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 01:42 PM
[QUOTE=BigRedChief;6627069][quote=Chief Henry;6627057]

It is your fault. You and the millions of other assclowns who voted for B.O. and continue to toss his salad.

Spot on :clap:

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 01:48 PM
Take that, Big Tanning.




Lets have that tax on Cadilac plans start today. If it will help reduce the deficit, why wait until 2018 ? Why not instill allof it On April 1st ? How many uninsured people are going to die in the next 4 years waiting for Obama
Care to fully kick in. Hey, if its that f'n good, lets get this thing started right now.

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 01:49 PM
Don't take Kotter seriously. He might claim to be a democrat from South Dakota but even our Dem Rep. Stephanie Herseth is a simpleton in his eyes because she voted no on the bill. Kotter doesn't come close to representing the 99% of us simpleton in the state.

For your sake I hope you are right.

Mr. Kotter
03-23-2010, 01:54 PM
Nice job. Is that your perception of a lot of people?

You really believe that people to the right of you feel no social obligations at all? And that those people have that limited an understanding of the constitution?

Before there was the far right talkers, did these people exist? And where do you believe they got information? Do you think honestly that people to the right of you are that uninformed, poorly educated unread and ignorant?

What is there about the desire for liberty, freedom, self determination that you find perverse? Do you really think that people who desire to work hard, own a business or do an job well and earn a reward are somehow beneath your respect?

I really don't think you believe what you wrote describes that vast majority of people that you define as redneck simpletons. Im hoping you wrote that in some attempt to create a bit of controversy and in some manner address my question.

What would bother me more is that I have to wonder if you do in fact believe that as you drive through the midwest, through small towns and communities that you feel that all those pickup driving farmers, ranchers, small town business people are just a bunch of unwashed rednecks that you seem to have such contempt for.

Forgive me....but I thought since so many "right wingers" here (since I can no longer consider myself one, according to some here) seem conditioned by the histrionic hyperbole of the Limbaugh-Hannity-Beck politics of demagoguery, that I'd respond in a language to which you might be accustomed.

Some folks on the right do have some sense of social obligation, but it seems obfuscated by their misguided allegiance to perverted notions of "freedom" and "liberty" and the "free market" these days---because frankly, their understanding of those notions do not bear much resemblence to life in the 21st century.

Let me say, there are plenty of ignorant people on the left and right in American society--before the arrival of talk radio. Andrew Jackson, Huey Long, George Wallace, and even folks like Richard Nixon have relied heavily on their support throughout history. Each side's "fringe" shows it's collective ass every once in awhile, depending on current events and political circumstances. The left's ass was prominent in the 1960s, and some druing the Clinton years; on the other hand, it's the right's ass that is prominent currently.

Ideologues on both sides take perfectly reasonable notions like freedom and liberty on the right....or like equality and social justice on the left.....to ridiculous extremes. They hide their perverse interpretations of noble ideas behind vague rhetoric and sound bites intended to invoke emotional arguments in which propaganda too often trumps truth. Feminists and civil rights folks did it in the 70s; today, the tea-party and dittoheads are playing that tired old song.

People who work hard, succeed, and contibute to society....are living the real American dream. They have earned no ill-will from me. However, to do as many on the right are now doing.....demonizing and demogoguing those with whom they disagree as socialists, as pariahs, or worse, diminshes their place in our society. Our society is rooted in democracy (yeah, a republican one, but democracy nonetheless,) self-reliance, and commitment to our Constitution---one that speaks of equal protection and general welfare, as well as liberty and freedom.

Liberty and general welfare are not mutually exclusive terms; neither are freedom and equal protection. It's a balancing act that good governments strive to attain, rather than choosing the easy path. So, no....I don't view redneck simpletons with the sort of contempt you imagine--because I truly don't believe there are many of them around. However, there are a whole lot of people ACTING as if they do belong to such a group because they are allowing the right wing radio clowns to string them along....and to do their thinking for them, rather than to think things through for themselves.

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 02:00 PM
Forgive me....but I thought since so many "right wingers" here (since I can no longer consider myself one, according to some here) seem conditioned by the histrionic hyperbole of the Limbaugh-Hannity-Beck politics of demagoguery, that I'd respond in a language to which you might be accustomed.

Some folks on the right do have some sense of social obligation, but it seems obfuscated by their misguided allegiance to perverted notions of "freedom" and "liberty" and the "free market" these days---because frankly, their understanding of those notions do not bear much resemblence to life in the 21st century.

Let me say, there are plenty of ignorant people on the left and right in American society--before the arrival of talk radio. Andrew Jackson, Huey Long, George Wallace, and even folks like Richard Nixon have relied heavily on their support throughout history. Each side's "fringe" shows it's collective ass every once in awhile, depending on current events and political circumstances. The left's ass was prominent in the 1960s, and some druing the Clinton years; on the other hand, it's the right's ass that is prominent currently.

Ideologues on both sides take perfectly reasonable notions like freedom and liberty on the right....or like equality and social justice on the left.....to ridiculous extremes. They hide their perverse interpretations of noble ideas behind vague rhetoric and sound bites intended to invoke emotional arguments in which propaganda too often trumps truth. Feminists and civil rights folks did it in the 70s; today, the tea-party and dittoheads are playing that tired old song.

People who work hard, succeed, and contibute to society....are living the real American dream. They have earned no ill-will from me. However, to do as many on the right are now doing.....demonizing and demogoguing those with whom they disagree as socialists, as pariahs, or worse, diminshes their place in our society. Our society is rooted in democracy (yeah, a republican one, but democracy nonetheless,) self-reliance, and commitment to our Constitution---one that speaks of equal protection and general welfare, as well as liberty and freedom.

Liberty and general welfare are not mutually exclusive terms; neither are freedom and equal protection. It's a balancing act that good governments strive to attain, rather than choosing the easy path. So, no....I don't view redneck simpletons with the sort of contempt you imagine--because I truly don't believe there are many of them around. However, there are a whole lot of people ACTING as if they do belong to such a group because they are allowing the right wing radio clowns to string them along....and to do their thinking for them, rather than to think things through for themselves.This is how you respond to an opposing viewpoint. Not name calling and demonizing their points.

Iowanian
03-23-2010, 02:32 PM
10% tax on tanning beds.......another non-tax, tax on people earning under $250k.

Add that to the 3.8% on any rental or "non earned" income....
Add that to the .9% additional federal income tax
Add that to the fines for mandated healthcare...that many people don't have because they say they can't afford it in the first place.
Add the fees and fines for having "Too good" of an insurance policy.
and the band plays on...

Obama is a liar and a scumbag.


When do the weigh scales appear at the CPA offices to implement the new FAT Tax?


Kotter, isn't it about time for your cheese to slip off the cracker again..and do something like post about the tits of a student?

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 02:37 PM
This is how you respond to an opposing viewpoint. Not name calling and demonizing their points.



Voting for changes that effect me and my family, while the GOVERMENT forces us to purchase something.....DOES NOT require essays for a response. This is black and white :grr:


The states law suits on this will be a great learning experiance for all of us.

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 02:41 PM
Voting for changes that effect me and my family, while the GOVERMENT forces us to purchase something.....DOES NOT require essays for a response. This is black and white :grr: You may want it to be black and white, but its not. Demonizing and marginalizing is what you and others on the far right love to do to those with opposing viewpoints. You are either smart and with us or too stupid to even consider.

Iowanian
03-23-2010, 02:43 PM
Insurance premiums are going to skyrocket....just wait until your group renewals arrive.


Kind of funny how bigREDobomunist wasn't bemoaning demonizing and marginalizing arguements over the past say....8 years.


The good news...."Free colonoscopy and mamograms".....other than SOMEONE IS GOING TO HAVE TO PAY FOR ALL OF THIS FREE STUFF.

mlyonsd
03-23-2010, 02:43 PM
You may want it to be black and white, but its not. Demonizing and marginalizing is what you and others on the far right love to do to those with opposing viewpoints. You are either smart and with us or too stupid to even consider.

LOL, that goes on here from both sides.

FishingRod
03-23-2010, 02:44 PM
" Young adults will be able stay on their parents' insurance until their 27th birthday."


Does anyone know if the "young adults" must be a student to do this? If so full or Part time?

Iowanian
03-23-2010, 02:45 PM
Who is going to pay for the 15,000 new govt employees? Suppose those wages and benefits were figured into these "cost savings"?

dirk digler
03-23-2010, 02:46 PM
You may want it to be black and white, but its not. Demonizing and marginalizing is what you and others on the far right love to do to those with opposing viewpoints. You are either smart and with us or too stupid to even consider.

I have no problem demonizing or marginalizing people when they say stupid stuff like CH, hcf, the Iowanian midget and that red-neck mlyonsd. :)

mlyonsd
03-23-2010, 02:47 PM
I have no problem demonizing or marginalizing people when they say stupid stuff like CH, hcf, the Iowanian midget and that red-neck mlyonsd. :)

redneck simpleton. Get it right.

dirk digler
03-23-2010, 02:48 PM
redneck simpleton. Get it right.

LMAO Ooops my bad

vailpass
03-23-2010, 02:49 PM
"A 10 percent tax will be imposed on amounts paid for indoor tanning services on or after July 1. "

WTF?

vailpass
03-23-2010, 02:52 PM
A legitamate point. Guess it comes down to what kind of society you want to live in. Do you want to live in an isolated society where I got mine, you get your own is the predominate philosphy or do you want to live in a place where we care about our fellow human beings and citzens?

Yes comrade this is exactly what I want. I prefer capitalism in a free market over the collective, thank you very much.

Baby Lee
03-23-2010, 02:57 PM
"A 10 percent tax will be imposed on amounts paid for indoor tanning services on or after July 1. "

WTF?

Seriously, what about those outdoor tanners, stealing our green energy from a deserving solar panel?

FishingRod
03-23-2010, 02:58 PM
" Young adults will be able stay on their parents' insurance until their 27th birthday."


Does anyone know if the "young adults" must be a student to do this? If so full or Part time?

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

mlyonsd
03-23-2010, 03:02 PM
Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

No, I don't think they have to be students.

mlyonsd
03-23-2010, 03:03 PM
"A 10 percent tax will be imposed on amounts paid for indoor tanning services on or after July 1. "

WTF?

Wait until they impose a tax on outdoor tanning services.

dirk digler
03-23-2010, 03:07 PM
Wait until they impose a tax on outdoor tanning services.

I swore I read that somewhere else

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 03:10 PM
Insurance premiums are going to skyrocket....just wait until your group renewals arrive.


Kind of funny how bigREDobomunist wasn't bemoaning demonizing and marginalizing arguements over the past say....8 years.


The good news...."Free colonoscopy and mamograms".....other than SOMEONE IS GOING TO HAVE TO PAY FOR ALL OF THIS FREE STUFF.




Premiums are going to raise substantially. They have to get the reserves in line after all the new claims they're going to be paying out. SO much for
a cost savings.

Inspector
03-23-2010, 03:13 PM
" Young adults will be able stay on their parents' insurance until their 27th birthday."


Does anyone know if the "young adults" must be a student to do this? If so full or Part time?

I heard on the radio yesterday that they did not have to be students.

And of course, my youngest just turned 28 last month.

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 03:17 PM
Premiums are going to raise substantially. They have to get the reserves in line after all the new claims they're going to be paying out. SO much for
a cost savings.you do know the vote has been taken. The bill is signed. You can stop the BS hyperbole the sky is falling anytime now.

Inspector
03-23-2010, 03:21 PM
OUCH!!

I kid you not, a piece of sky actually fell on me just now.

Oh man, here comes some more.

DUCK!!!!!

Mr. Kotter
03-23-2010, 03:23 PM
OUCH!!

I kid you not, a piece of sky actually fell on me just now.

Oh man, here comes some more.

DUCK!!!!!

Red. Boldface. Enlarged font.

Get it right, damn it. :cuss:

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 03:27 PM
you do know the vote has been taken. The bill is signed. You can stop the BS hyperbole the sky is falling anytime now.

Look at the man, he really believes Obama and Nancy :doh!:

Mr. Kotter
03-23-2010, 03:29 PM
Look at the man, he really believes Obama and Nancy :doh!:

Look at the man, he really believes Rush and Sean and Glenn! :doh!:

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 03:33 PM
Look at the man, he really believes Rush and Sean and Glenn! :doh!:

Look at the men, Kooter and BRC believes that this new obama care will lower premiums ROFL

How about putting some cash on this - BRC wanted to do this earlier.

Mr. Kotter
03-23-2010, 03:36 PM
Look at the men, Kooter and BRC believes that this new obama care will lower premiums ROFL

How about putting some cash on this - BRC wanted to do this earlier.

Are we talking over 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, or 25 years? Are we adjusting for inflation? Are we talking Cadilac plan, or government cheese plan???

:huh:

These kinds of things get soooooo confusing.... :hmmm:

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 03:38 PM
Are we talking over 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, or 25 years? Are we adjusting for inflation? Are we talking Cadilac plan, or government cheese plan???

:huh:

These kinds of things get soooooo confusing.... :hmmm:

By 01-01-12 and on going.

FishingRod
03-23-2010, 03:40 PM
I heard on the radio yesterday that they did not have to be students.

And of course, my youngest just turned 28 last month.

Thanks looking for my free stuff , Have a 21 and 23 year old step daughter. Have a 25 year old one too but she has a job with insurance, is a vet and a husband in the Army. Sounds like the the younger 2 may be able to get back on their Dad's insurance.

Mr. Kotter
03-23-2010, 03:46 PM
By 01-01-12 and on going.

Short-term trends are hard to predict--primarily because Chicken-Little types may panic or opportunistically take advantage of the uncertainties and ambiguity of implementing the legislation. Long-term, such manipulations are likely to be weeded-out by market forces.

dirk digler
03-23-2010, 03:51 PM
Premiums are going to raise substantially. They have to get the reserves in line after all the new claims they're going to be paying out. SO much for
a cost savings.

They were already rising substantially.

Mr. Kotter
03-23-2010, 03:54 PM
They were already rising substantially.

SSSSssssss--HHHHHH!!!

You weren't suppose to bring that up.... ;)

bowener
03-23-2010, 03:54 PM
Ther takin our freedom to fake bake (at a cheaper cost)!!!

A 10 percent tax will be imposed on amounts paid for indoor tanning services on or after July 1.

edit:

Businesses with fewer than 50 employees will get tax credits covering 35 percent of their health care premiums, increasing to 50 percent by 2014.

That's bad, right? I heard this thing was bad for small business, so this is bad then, right?

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 04:11 PM
SSSSssssss--HHHHHH!!!

You weren't suppose to bring that up.... ;)

Obama care is suppose to lower premiums for everyone. Up to $2,500 to $3,000 dollars ROFL

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 04:35 PM
you do know the vote has been taken. The bill is signed. You can stop the BS hyperbole the sky is falling anytime now.

uh, Sherlock, you do understand that insurance companies have to maintain
cash reserves to pay claims. Typically 60-70 % of the premium goes to pay for benefits paid out to the policy holder in CLAIMS to doctors, hospitals and drug benefits.

Keep believing Obama and Nancy and watch what happens in a few short years.

Iowanian
03-23-2010, 04:35 PM
Ther takin our freedom to fake bake (at a cheaper cost)!!!



edit:



That's bad, right? I heard this thing was bad for small business, so this is bad then, right?


If they are FORCING you to provide health insurance, it sure as hell can be.

dirk digler
03-23-2010, 04:42 PM
SSSSssssss--HHHHHH!!!

You weren't suppose to bring that up.... ;)

Sorry but I couldn't help. It is my nature to help retarded children like CH.

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 04:45 PM
Sorry but I couldn't help. It is my nature to help retarded children like CH.

I see you don't like facts and resort to name calling. Thats exactly what is expected from liberals. You have trouble comprehending FACTS.

dirk digler
03-23-2010, 04:50 PM
I see you don't like facts and resort to name calling. Thats exactly what is expected from liberals. You have trouble comprehending FACTS.

I stated a fact and you ignored it just like you usually do.

Chocolate Hog
03-23-2010, 04:58 PM
Insurance premiums are going to skyrocket....just wait until your group renewals arrive.


Kind of funny how bigREDobomunist wasn't bemoaning demonizing and marginalizing arguements over the past say....8 years.


The good news...."Free colonoscopy and mamograms".....other than SOMEONE IS GOING TO HAVE TO PAY FOR ALL OF THIS FREE STUFF.

You mean giving 30 million more people insurance is going to raise the price? Where is this logic in the white house?

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 05:10 PM
I stated a fact and you ignored it just like you usually do.

Look at Dirk. He's trying to pretend he's funny. But we all know the truth
about him.

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 05:14 PM
You mean giving 30 million more people insurance is going to raise the price? Where is this logic in the white house?

It is suppose to save $2,500 per family but for the last couple of month's it was suppose to save $3,000 per family. $500 is alot of money to most families...is the admn already back pedaling on the amount of savings ?

Premiums can't go up. Smart people like Dirk and BRC say thats not suppose to happen with Obama care.

BigRedChief
03-23-2010, 05:30 PM
Premiums can't go up. Smart people like Dirk and BRC say thats not suppose to happen with Obama care.Are you insane? Can you please stop telling lies? Just stop it.:facepalm:

Of course premiums are going to go up. Nothing can be done to stop premium increases. The point of health care reform was to bend the cost curve not stop premium increases.

Chief Henry
03-23-2010, 05:36 PM
Are you insane? Can you please stop telling lies? Just stop it.:facepalm:

Of course premiums are going to go up. Nothing can be done to stop premium increases. The point of health care reform was to bend the cost curve not stop premium increases.


The insane people are the people who can't see the problems this monster creates over the next 10 years.

How do you define success in containing the curve cost ?

dirk digler
03-23-2010, 07:08 PM
Look at Dirk. He's trying to pretend he's funny. But we all know the truth
about him.

What? I pointed out in post 129 that premiums were already going up substantially and you ignored it because that doesn't fit into your argument.

Fruit Ninja
03-23-2010, 07:50 PM
It's not my responsibility to make sure the person that lives next door to me is healthy. Plain and simple. The fact that people will get fined for not purchasing the govt plan is nothing more than the govt wanting more control over people. Otherwise there wouldn't be a fine.

this kinda bothers me. Yes, its not my responsibility if john from across the street is doing what he has to do, but if he comes down with something and he cant afford it, i dont not have a problem paying taxes so he can get looked at. Thats just the kind of human being i am and i am glad that i am that way and i will NEVER EVER change. I will help anyone out that is willing to work at it.

So for me, having to pay for someone else its not a big deal to me. I do have issues with people abusing things, but with anything, everyone abuses the system in some way shape or form. You take the bad with the good, thats just how life is.

If you dont want to do it well, to ****ing bad, i am sure your momma taught you life isnt fair.

BigRedChief
03-24-2010, 07:44 AM
this kinda bothers me. Yes, its not my responsibility if john from across the street is doing what he has to do, but if he comes down with something and he cant afford it, i dont not have a problem paying taxes so he can get looked at. Thats just the kind of human being i am and i am glad that i am that way and i will NEVER EVER change. I will help anyone out that is willing to work at it.

So for me, having to pay for someone else its not a big deal to me. I do have issues with people abusing things, but with anything, everyone abuses the system in some way shape or form. You take the bad with the good, thats just how life is.

If you dont want to do it well, to ****ing bad, i am sure your momma taught you life isnt fair.No chit, is that the country you want to live in? just let your fellow citzens bleed out and die in the streets since they don't have money to see a Dr.? Is that really what anyone wants?

InChiefsHell
03-24-2010, 08:19 AM
No chit, is that the country you want to live in? just let your fellow citzens bleed out and die in the streets since they don't have money to see a Dr.? Is that really what anyone wants?

Geez. Talk about a red herring. Please link to the incidents of fellow citizens
" bleed out and die in the streets since they don't have money to see a Dr.?"

They can go to a Dr. Everyone can. They just can't pay for it later. We don't have people dying in the goddam streets in America. And you libs talk about the scare tactics of the right...:shake:

BigRedChief
03-24-2010, 08:26 AM
Geez. Talk about a red herring. Please link to the incidents of fellow citizens
" bleed out and die in the streets since they don't have money to see a Dr.?"

They can go to a Dr. Everyone can. They just can't pay for it later. We don't have people dying in the goddam streets in America. And you libs talk about the scare tactics of the right...:shake:I wasn't saying it was happening now. I was painting a future picture of what america could look like if we stopped funding hospitals. Again what do we do with the sick and dying that have no money? What of that skateboarder and young executive that thought health insurance was a waste of money until they crash their car and can't pay the hospital bill? Who pays that? me and you. How is that a good system?

InChiefsHell
03-24-2010, 08:49 AM
I wasn't saying it was happening now. I was painting a future picture of what america could look like if we stopped funding hospitals. Again what do we do with the sick and dying that have no money? What of that skateboarder and young executive that thought health insurance was a waste of money until they crash their car and can't pay the hospital bill? Who pays that? me and you. How is that a good system?

Make up your mind. Either people are responsible for their own behavior and choices or they are not. In the case of the sick and dying with no money, we have a thing called Medicare and Medicaid. It's a fucked up system, but it's there. How come nobody wants to reform that?

In the case of that skateboarder or the young executive, the skateboarder is engaged in a dangerous activity. If he is injured, he'll go to the emergency room and get the best treatment on the planet. Then he'll owe the hospital 50K or more. Tough luck for him, it's a risk he takes for his lifestyle choice. If he's under 22 he'll be on his parents insurance plan. If they don't have insurance, they have medicare and medicaid.

Lastly, please find me the section in the Constitution that states that the Federal Government, and ONLY the Federal Government, can or even SHOULD single handedly solve these issues? Why not offer more freedom to individuals, how they pay healthcare? Why not open up competition across state lines? Why not concentrate on a FREE MARKET solution?

WHY?

BigRedChief
03-24-2010, 08:56 AM
In the case of the sick and dying with no money, we have a thing called Medicare and Medicaid. It's a ****ed up system, but it's there. How come nobody wants to reform that?

Not all the sick and dying qualify for medicare and medicaid. Those who don't we are giving them free medical care right now. Why should we support them for their mistakes?

In the case of that skateboarder or the young executive, the skateboarder is engaged in a dangerous activity. If he is injured, he'll go to the emergency room and get the best treatment on the planet. Then he'll owe the hospital 50K or more. Tough luck for him, it's a risk he takes for his lifestyle choice. If he's under 22 he'll be on his parents insurance plan. If they don't have insurance, they have medicare and medicaid.

It's not tough luck for him. He doesn't have the money. It's tough luck for us, we are stuck with the bill, he has bad credit but we, the taxpayer, are out the $50K.

Lastly, please find me the section in the Constitution that states that the Federal Government, and ONLY the Federal Government, can or even SHOULD single handedly solve these issues? Why not offer more freedom to individuals, how they pay healthcare? Why not open up competition across state lines? Why not concentrate on a FREE MARKET solution?

WHY?
If the free market can fix it why didn't it under George W and over the last 100 years we know there has been a problem?

InChiefsHell
03-24-2010, 09:04 AM
1) I'd ask you the same question, why should we support them indeed??

2) It's not tough luck for him, but it SHOULD be.

3) The free market has not been free for a long time. The more the gov gets involved the less the free market can do it's thing. Answer the question about not selling insurance across state lines...why can't they? Is that the insurance industry, or is that the government over regulating?

BigRedChief
03-24-2010, 09:07 AM
1) I'd ask you the same question, why should we support them indeed??

2) It's not tough luck for him, but it SHOULD be.

3) The free market has not been free for a long time. The more the gov gets involved the less the free market can do it's thing. Answer the question about not selling insurance across state lines...why can't they? Is that the insurance industry, or is that the government over regulating?There again is the crux of the dilemma. Is it okay with you to allow your fellow citzens to bleed out into the streets and die because they can't afford a trip to the ER and surgery to fix their wounds? And if not we have to find a way to keep us from being stuck with that $50K bill.

InChiefsHell
03-24-2010, 09:24 AM
There again is the crux of the dilemma. Is it okay with you to allow your fellow citzens to bleed out into the streets and die because they can't afford a trip to the ER and surgery to fix their wounds? And if not we have to find a way to keep us from being stuck with that $50K bill.

That is like people who argue that abortion should be OK in the case of rape and incest. The incidents are so low as to not even be the cause of the problem, but it's used to make a point. In other words, those few incidents are not enough to convince me that they are the reason our health care system is so fugged up that it needs to be virtually dismantled in order to be fixed.

Look. The point is, they get care. They have to find a way to pay for it. IF that means that they end up going bankrupt or losing everything, that sucks, but it is what it is. Why not open up the free market, encourage them to have insurance co-ops (not run by the government) to make insurance that much more affordable? Or make it portable? Or make it sellable across state lines? Why not simply give tax incentives to companies to offer health insurance rather than hit them with a penalty if they can't do it? Especially when that penalty is designed to drive people from private insurance to the eventuality of a government run health care plan. It's not designed to lower premiums, by design premiums are going to go up. And who will be blamed? The evil insurance companies. And the perception will be that the only way to make sure you don't get screwed is for the government to just take it all over. That's the slippery slope. No, this bill does not explicitly lay out a government take over, but it's designed to bring us to that point.

Talk to me again in 10 years if this crap isn't fixed. This January of 2011, your insurance premiums on your group plan ARE going to increase. This is because this bill requires 85% retention of funds for only paying claims instead of the current 65%. Whether they need it or not. So, that takes another 20% off of the industry's ability to meet it's other obligations, like salaries and light bills etc. How will they pay those other obligations? They will necessarily have to raise premiums. THIS IS BY DESIGN. People WILL blame the insurance industry. The government WILL "swoop in to save us". If this is not undone and re-thought out, we WILL have government run health care in the next 10-15 years. If you are comfortable with that, well, God bless you.

BigRedChief
03-24-2010, 09:28 AM
That is like people who argue that abortion should be OK in the case of rape and incest. The incidents are so low as to not even be the cause of the problem, but it's used to make a point. In other words, those few incidents are not enough to convince me that they are the reason our health care system is so fugged up that it needs to be virtually dismantled in order to be fixed.

Look. The point is, they get care. They have to find a way to pay for it. IF that means that they end up going bankrupt or losing everything, that sucks, but it is what it is. Why not open up the free market, encourage them to have insurance co-ops (not run by the government) to make insurance that much more affordable? Or make it portable? Or make it sellable across state lines? Why not simply give tax incentives to companies to offer health insurance rather than hit them with a penalty if they can't do it? Especially when that penalty is designed to drive people from private insurance to the eventuality of a government run health care plan. It's not designed to lower premiums, by design premiums are going to go up. And who will be blamed? The evil insurance companies. And the perception will be that the only way to make sure you don't get screwed is for the government to just take it all over. That's the slippery slope. No, this bill does not explicitly lay out a government take over, but it's designed to bring us to that point.

Talk to me again in 10 years if this crap isn't fixed. This January of 2011, your insurance premiums on your group plan ARE going to increase. This is because this bill requires 85% retention of funds for only paying claims instead of the current 65%. Whether they need it or not. So, that takes another 20% off of the industry's ability to meet it's other obligations, like salaries and light bills etc. How will they pay those other obligations? They will necessarily have to raise premiums. THIS IS BY DESIGN. People WILL blame the insurance industry. The government WILL "swoop in to save us". If this is not undone and re-thought out, we WILL have government run health care in the next 10-15 years. If you are comfortable with that, well, God bless you.One company last quarter had a $2.7 billion profit and then raise rates 40% on their customers because of rising costs? They give out bonus's like wall street bankers and then plead poverty? Sorry but I've got no tears to shed for insurance companies.

Citzens can walk into any ER and get care is not the solution. We are still stuck with the bill for that ER visit. The taxpayer is paying for that visit.

InChiefsHell
03-24-2010, 10:02 AM
It's almost like you don't read my posts. It's not about these random numbers that you can pull up about insurance company profits. How about the amount of money the government takes in and wastes? They make every insurance company in the WORLD look like responsible standup citizens. Yet you are content with letting them "fix the problem".

The point is, there are many other ways to fix the problem rather than relying on the government. You simply have a different mind set. You are not only OK with the federal government taking the reigns and controlling industry, you actually think it's the ONLY way we can all live happy lives. I simply disagree.

BigRedChief
03-24-2010, 10:06 AM
It's almost like you don't read my posts. It's not about these random numbers that you can pull up about insurance company profits. How about the amount of money the government takes in and wastes? They make every insurance company in the WORLD look like responsible standup citizens. Yet you are content with letting them "fix the problem".

The point is, there are many other ways to fix the problem rather than relying on the government. You simply have a different mind set. You are not only OK with the federal government taking the reigns and controlling industry, you actually think it's the ONLY way we can all live happy lives. I simply disagree.I say your delusional if you think this is a takeover of the private health care industry.

The ungodly amounts of money the government wastes is a seperate issue.

If the private insurance industry can or wants to fix the issue they would have by now. They like profits more.

Mr. Kotter
03-24-2010, 10:27 AM
It's almost like you don't read my posts. It's not about these random numbers that you can pull up about insurance company profits. How about the amount of money the government takes in and wastes? They make every insurance company in the WORLD look like responsible standup citizens. Yet you are content with letting them "fix the problem".

The point is, there are many other ways to fix the problem rather than relying on the government. You simply have a different mind set. You are not only OK with the federal government taking the reigns and controlling industry, you actually think it's the ONLY way we can all live happy lives. I simply disagree.


In 1993, the industry stood up and said: "Don't let the government fix the problem; we'll fix it!!! We promise."

They lied. They've continued to lie for 17 years. 17 years. Why would we trust them to do it now???

It's like the cheating husband or alcoholic who promises to stop....but never does.

petegz28
03-24-2010, 10:29 AM
In 1993, the industry stood up and said: "Don't let the government fix the problem; we'll fix it!!! We promise."

They lied. They've continued to lie for 17 years. 17 years. Why would we trust them to do it now???

It's like the cheating husband or alcoholic who promises to stop....but never does.

As if the Gov has a track record of stellar and streamlined performance.

The Mad Crapper
03-24-2010, 10:30 AM
Is it okay with you to allow your fellow citzens to bleed out into the streets and die because they can't afford a trip to the ER and surgery to fix their wounds?

Name one person that has happened to.

:rolleyes:

InChiefsHell
03-24-2010, 10:45 AM
In 1993, the industry stood up and said: "Don't let the government fix the problem; we'll fix it!!! We promise."

They lied. They've continued to lie for 17 years. 17 years. Why would we trust them to do it now???

It's like the cheating husband or alcoholic who promises to stop....but never does.

In 1993 I worked for the Insurance industry, at Mutual of Omaha to be exact. I don't remember them standing up and saying that. I do remember them warning against government run health care. The issues at that time were the same scare tactics and ginning up of emotion as they are now.

There is no reasoning with you people who place the government above private industry.

I guess it is what it is.

The Mad Crapper
03-24-2010, 10:48 AM
We don't have people dying in the goddam streets in America. And you libs talk about the scare tactics of the right...:shake:

Remember when John Edwards was always talking about the millions of military veterans living under bridges?

ROFL

Chief Henry
03-24-2010, 10:55 AM
I say your delusional if you think this is a takeover of the private health care industry.


Many of us think you are delusional for not thinking it will lead to a take over.
Our President has even said he wants it. One congressman has already
mentiond the same thing. This bill is just a start to what they ULTIMATLEY want to do.

To think otherwise would be foolish.

The Mad Crapper
03-24-2010, 10:59 AM
Many of us think you are delusional for not thinking it will lead to a take over.
Our President has even said he wants it. One congressman has already
mentiond the same thing. This bill is just a start to what they ULTIMATLEY want to do.

To think otherwise would be foolish.

When the federal government orders me to purchase a product, and then threatens me if I do not comply, then that is a government takeover of that product.

Replace anything else with "health care" ie "guns"

The new law requires all citizens to own a gun.

and even a moonbat should be able to see the unconstitutionality of this thing. But it gets better--- If you cannot afford a gun, then the state, not the Fed, is required to purchase you one (with other peoples money). This is outrageous lunacy.

Mr. Kotter
03-24-2010, 11:20 AM
In 1993 I worked for the Insurance industry, at Mutual of Omaha to be exact. I don't remember them standing up and saying that. I do remember them warning against government run health care. The issues at that time were the same scare tactics and ginning up of emotion as they are now.

There is no reasoning with you people who place the government above private industry.

I guess it is what it is.


No, we place general welfare above greed and profits for a very privileged class.

The gravy train should have ended a long time ago, but we are....at last, getting closer.

Mr. Kotter
03-24-2010, 11:22 AM
Many of us think you are delusional for not thinking it will lead to a take over.
Our President has even said he wants it. One congressman has already
mentiond the same thing. This bill is just a start to what they ULTIMATLEY want to do.

To think otherwise would be foolish.

If the industry continues to ignore the public and the government, yeah that might happen now.

And for an industry that has shown the contempt, disregard, and arrogance that this industry has....they will deserve what they get. Every bit of it.

Chief Henry
03-24-2010, 11:22 AM
When the federal government orders me to purchase a product, and then threatens me if I do not comply, then that is a government takeover of that product.

Replace anything else with "health care" ie "guns"

The new law requires all citizens to own a gun.

and even a moonbat should be able to see the unconstitutionality of this thing. But it gets better--- If you cannot afford a gun, then the state, not the Fed, is required to purchase you one (with other peoples money). This is outrageous lunacy.


and we are the ones that are delusional ??????????

petegz28
03-24-2010, 11:26 AM
If the industry continues to ignore the public and the government, yeah that might happen now.

And for an industry that has shown the contempt, disregard, and arrogance that this industry has....they will deserve what they get. Every bit of it.



What about the Dems who ignore the public???

Chief Henry
03-24-2010, 11:26 AM
If the industry continues to ignore the public and the government, yeah that might happen now.

And for an industry that has shown the contempt, disregard, and arrogance that this industry has....they will deserve what they get. Every bit of it.

The insurance industry isn't regulated ?

petegz28
03-24-2010, 11:29 AM
Pelosi just said this morning that if insurance companies raise their rates they will not be allowed into the exchange.

InChiefsHell
03-24-2010, 11:32 AM
No, we place general welfare above greed and profits for a very privileged class.

The gravy train should have ended a long time ago, but we are....at last, getting closer.

Again, it is what it is. I don't expect liberals to grasp the concept of freedom. Nanny state is much better. I can't convince you otherwise.

Chief Henry
03-24-2010, 11:37 AM
Pelosi just said this morning that if insurance companies raise their rates they will not be allowed into the exchange.

???????????????????? Say what ???????????????????????????


Can you give a little more information please.

petegz28
03-24-2010, 11:42 AM
???????????????????? Say what ???????????????????????????


Can you give a little more information please.

Queen Na-Nan has spoken.

Inspector
03-24-2010, 12:08 PM
this kinda bothers me. Yes, its not my responsibility if john from across the street is doing what he has to do, but if he comes down with something and he cant afford it, i dont not have a problem paying taxes so he can get looked at. Thats just the kind of human being i am and i am glad that i am that way and i will NEVER EVER change. I will help anyone out that is willing to work at it.

So for me, having to pay for someone else its not a big deal to me. I do have issues with people abusing things, but with anything, everyone abuses the system in some way shape or form. You take the bad with the good, thats just how life is.

If you dont want to do it well, to ****ing bad, i am sure your momma taught you life isnt fair.

My family participates with charitable events every year. Many people do. When providing charity is mandated by the government, it doesn't seem like charity anymore.

To me, that seems to be the a major difference between supporters and non-supporters. One wants to help out their fellow man as an act of charity from their heart. Others want to put a gun to your head and force you to make you do it.

Imagine if a person down on their luck was standing on the corner with a tin can for people to drop quarters in when they pass - doing so out of the goodness of their hearts. Now imagine that same scenario except now the guy is sticking a gun in your face demanding your money. Do you see the difference? The result might be the same - your money goes to help them, but the method is quite different and is typically abhorrent to many people.

I suspect that this issue is probably like the abortion debate where each person is so firmly entrenched in their viewpoints and so convinced they are right that they are simply unable to see any other viewpoints and are not likely to be pursuaded to alter their outlook. Not to mention that it is very possible that there might be socialist or other un-american people with their their own motives - whatever they might be.

And on top of that, requiring we be charitable to others at gun point (IRS) is simply not what our once great country is about. We're all still supposed to be Americans here.

As usual, this is my opinion.

Mr. Kotter
03-24-2010, 12:14 PM
The insurance industry isn't regulated ?

Not nearly enough...obviously. But we are getting there, now.

petegz28
03-24-2010, 12:15 PM
Not nearly enough...obviously. But we are getting there, now.

Yes, they can't be regulated enough because health care isn't free.

Mr. Kotter
03-24-2010, 12:20 PM
Yes, they can't be regulated enough because health care isn't free.


Only a moron would suggest it's "free"...it isn't, and it won't ever be. Only morons would think anyone else who has half a brain would really expect it to be "free."

What I do know is....the days of the endless gravy train for the industry are, indeed, numbered. Which is why the right wing nutjobs are having a cow, pissin' all over themselves, crying and whining like newborns over it. Heh.

:D

petegz28
03-24-2010, 12:24 PM
Only a moron would suggest it's "free"...it isn't, and it won't ever be. Only morons would think anyone else who has half a brain would really expect it to be "free."

What I do know is....the days of the endless gravy train for the industry are, indeed, numbered. Which is why the right wing nutjobs are having a cow, pissin' all over themselves, crying and whining like newborns over it. Heh.

:D

So Obama is a moron now? I mean he just said mamograms and colonoscopies will now be "free".

Keep talking, you guys are so fucking ignorant as to what is in the bill and what Deal Leader says that you shoot your own hero down without even a clue.

Baby Lee
03-24-2010, 12:28 PM
Only a moron would suggest it's "free"...it isn't, and it won't ever be. Only morons would think anyone else who has half a brain would really expect it to be "free."

What I do know is....the days of the endless gravy train for the industry are, indeed, numbered. Which is why the right wing nutjobs are having a cow, pissin' all over themselves, crying and whining like newborns over it. Heh.

:D

That industry will RUE THE DAY they let Mr. Kotter see that glorious bagel spread, complete with SCHMEAR!!!!!

Chief Henry
03-24-2010, 02:10 PM
Not nearly enough...obviously. But we are getting there, now.

You think this bill is going to solve the real problems ?

Chief Henry
03-24-2010, 02:12 PM
So Obama is a moron now? I mean he just said mamograms and colonoscopies will now be "free".

Keep talking, you guys are so ****ing ignorant as to what is in the bill and what Deal Leader says that you shoot your own hero down without even a clue.

For the last 3 weeks Obama's been saying that childrens pre-excisting conditions will be covered from day one...the fine print proves him wrong.

What else don't we know about this plan ?

CoMoChief
03-24-2010, 03:13 PM
Pelosi just said this morning that if insurance companies raise their rates they will not be allowed into the exchange.

This will lead to job loss eventually.......you can take that to the bank.
(as opposed to BO's promise that "This bill will create/help the job market")


If a company is losing money they cut costs....it's that simple. And if a company in this industry can't make up for the costs (raise cost of coverage/premiums) they're going have to pay out for "high risk" aka people w/ pre-existing conditions, then they are going to have to cut costs other ways, usually that leads to cutting staff and job layoffs.

CoMoChief
03-24-2010, 03:26 PM
For the last 3 weeks Obama's been saying that childrens pre-excisting conditions will be covered from day one...the fine print proves him wrong.

What else don't we know about this plan ?

A bunch of shit.......would be my guess.

Dottefan
03-24-2010, 06:24 PM
A bunch of shit.......would be my guess.

Stupid answer.

CoMoChief
03-24-2010, 06:31 PM
Stupid answer.

There's a bunch of dumb shit about this bill that most people don't like. Why shouldn't we all expect more once all of this comes out into the light.

"We must pass this bill so we all know what's in it" <==== WTF?!?!?

Dottefan
03-24-2010, 07:23 PM
There's a bunch of dumb shit about this bill that most people don't like. Why shouldn't we all expect more once all of this comes out into the light.

"We must pass this bill so we all know what's in it" <==== WTF?!?!?

Even dumber answer.