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|Zach|
03-29-2010, 02:51 AM
This is an interesting article. While the movement has a lot of good points it has always seemed IMO as a group of people that want to emote, more so than a political movement that has real goals. There is nothing wrong with wanting to vent of course. The tea party movement strikes me as the message board poster who would rather argue then see what he or she is advancing in that argument come to reality.

Anyway, thats just me. I could be off base. Interesting parts in bold.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/us/politics/28teaparty.html?pagewanted=print

By KATE ZERNIKE
SOUTH BEND, Ind. — When Tom Grimes lost his job as a financial consultant 15 months ago, he called his congressman, a Democrat, for help getting government health care.

Then he found a new full-time occupation: Tea Party activist.

In the last year, he has organized a local group and a statewide coalition, and even started a “bus czar” Web site to marshal protesters to Washington on short notice. This month, he mobilized 200 other Tea Party activists to go to the local office of the same congressman to protest what he sees as the government’s takeover of health care.

Mr. Grimes is one of many Tea Party members jolted into action by economic distress. At rallies, gatherings and training sessions in recent months, activists often tell a similar story in interviews: they had lost their jobs, or perhaps watched their homes plummet in value, and they found common cause in the Tea Party’s fight for lower taxes and smaller government.

The Great Depression, too, mobilized many middle-class people who had fallen on hard times. Though, as Michael Kazin, the author of “The Populist Persuasion,” notes, they tended to push for more government involvement. The Tea Party vehemently wants less — though a number of its members acknowledge that they are relying on government programs for help.

Mr. Grimes, who receives Social Security, has filled the back seat of his Mercury Grand Marquis with the literature of the movement, including Glenn Beck’s “Arguing With Idiots” and Frederic Bastiat’s “The Law,” which denounces public benefits as “false philanthropy.”

“If you quit giving people that stuff, they would figure out how to do it on their own,” Mr. Grimes said.

The fact that many of them joined the Tea Party after losing their jobs raises questions of whether the movement can survive an improvement in the economy, with people trading protest signs for paychecks.

But for now, some are even putting their savings into work that they argue is more important than a job — planning candidate forums and get-out-the-vote operations, researching arguments about the constitutional limits on Congress and using Facebook to attract recruits.

“Even if I wanted to stop, I just can’t,” said Diana Reimer, 67, who has become a star of the effort by FreedomWorks, a Tea Party group, to fight the health care overhaul. “I’m on a mission, and time is not on my side.”

A year ago, Ms. Reimer’s husband had been given a choice — retire or be fired. The couple had been trying to sell their split-level home in suburban Philadelphia to pay off some debt and move to a small place in the city.

But real estate agents told them the home would sell for about $40,000 less than they paid 19 years ago — not enough to pay off their mortgage.

Then Ms. Reimer saw a story about the Tea Party on television. “I said, ‘That’s it,’ ” she recalled. “How can you get this frustration out, have your voices heard?”

She liked that the Tea Party was patriotic, too. “They said the Pledge of Allegiance and sang the national anthem,” she said.

She had taken a job selling sportswear at Macy’s. But when her husband found her up early and late taking care of Tea Party business, he urged her to take a leave. When the store did not allow one, she quit.

“I guess I just found my calling,” she said.

Ms. Reimer, now a national coordinator for the Tea Party Patriots, also found a community. Directing protesters to Congressional offices on Capitol Hill before the vote on health care this month, Representative Steve King, an Iowa Republican who has become a Tea Party hero, stopped to welcome her by name. “I should have known you’d be here,” he said, embracing her.

A Tea Party member from North Carolina recognized Ms. Reimer from Massachusetts, where she led crews knocking on doors in the snow for Scott Brown, the state’s new Republican senator. “Our slave master,” the man said, greeting her.

Ms. Reimer often wells up talking about her work. “I’m respected,” she said, her voice breaking. “I don’t know why. I don’t know what is so special. But I’m willing to do it.”

She and others who receive government benefits like Medicare and Social Security said they paid into those programs, so they are getting what they deserve.

“All I know is government was put here for certain reasons,” Ms. Reimer said. “They were not put here to run banks, insurance companies, and health care and automobile companies. They were put here to keep us safe.”

She has no patience for the Obama administration’s bailouts and its actions on health care. “I just don’t trust this government,” Ms. Reimer said.

Jeff McQueen, 50, began organizing Tea Party groups in Michigan and Ohio after losing his job in auto parts sales. “Being unemployed and having some time, I realized I just couldn’t sit on the couch anymore,” he said. “I had the time to get involved.”

He began producing what he calls the flag of the Second American Revolution, and drove 700 miles to campaign for Mr. Brown under its banner. Flag sales, so far, are not making him much. But he sees a bigger cause.

“The founding fathers pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor,” he said. “They believed in it so much that they would sacrifice. That’s the kind of loyalty to this country that we stand for.”

He blames the government for his unemployment. “Government is absolutely responsible, not because of what they did recently with the car companies, but what they’ve done since the 1980s,” he said. “The government has allowed free trade and never set up any rules.”

He and others do not see any contradictions in their arguments for smaller government even as they argue that it should do more to prevent job loss or cuts to Medicare. After a year of angry debate, emotion outweighs fact.

“If you don’t trust the mindset or the value system of the people running the system, you can’t even look at the facts anymore,” Mr. Grimes said.

Tea Party groups like FreedomWorks recognize that they are benefiting from the labor of many people who have been hit hard economically. But its chairman, the former House majority leader Dick Armey, argued that their ranks will remain strong — and connected — even as members find work.

“I see these folks as pretty much the National Guard,” Mr. Armey said. “They will go back to their day jobs, they will go back to their Little League and their bridge club. But they will have their activism at the ready, and they will stay in touch.”

Mr. Grimes, for his part, is thinking of getting a part-time job with the Census Bureau. But he is also planning, he said, to teach high school students about the Constitution and limits on government powers.

“I don’t think that the unemployment thing is going to change,” he said.

|Zach|
03-29-2010, 03:01 AM
Taco is usually an interesting read in DC but I have to admit I am surprised that he sees this movement (based on what I remember reading) as noble as he does.

It seems pretty shallow with things like that last bolded quote.

Iowanian
03-29-2010, 09:06 AM
I'm surprised anyone on the left would have anything to say at all about what these people do and say, considering the history of demonstrators and protesters from the left the past couple of decades.

notorious
03-29-2010, 09:28 AM
I'm surprised anyone on the left would have anything to say at all about what these people do and say, considering the history of demonstrators and protesters from the left the past couple of decades.

I would have to agree.


The left side has been doing this stuff for decades. Why is it such a big deal that the right is up in arms?


I think that people that really matter are too busy for this kind of bullshit, but that's just me.

fan4ever
03-29-2010, 11:22 AM
The tea party movement strikes me as the message board poster who would rather argue then see what he or she is advancing in that argument come to reality.

Anyway, thats just me. I could be off base. Interesting parts in bold.



It's not just you; a lot of people would like to think the tea party movement is a bunch of hype...especially politicians...it helps them sleep better at night.

talastan
03-29-2010, 11:44 AM
I would have to agree.


The left side has been doing this stuff for decades. Why is it such a big deal that the right is up in arms?


I think that people that really matter are too busy for this kind of bullshit, but that's just me.

Because when the right protests it hurts the feelings of the sensitive left. :D

KCChiefsFan88
03-29-2010, 11:51 AM
It is quite ironic that tea baggers had no problem with our government spending BILLIONS of $$$s in the invasion/occupaion of Iraq... talk about a complete waste of the tax payers dollars.

The classic neo-con response will be that it is okay to spend on national defense and they will then try to convince everyone that Iraq in 2003 under Saddam (with no WMDs, a military in shambles and no connection to 9/11) was somehow a threat to our national security.

The tea baggers and the GOP should be forced to explain why they were perfectly fine spending tax payers dollars in Iraq, but have a problem spending on the healthcare of American citizens.

Is Iraq a better investment than the healthcare of American citizens?

InChiefsHell
03-29-2010, 11:52 AM
The difference between the Tea Party activists and the Pro-Bama activists is that they Tea Partiers actually mean this, they are putting their own wealth out and organizing themselves...the left has SEIU and a ton of money. The Tea Party movement survives because it is REAL and based on REAL outrage.

Garcia Bronco
03-29-2010, 11:58 AM
It is quite ironic that tea baggers had no problem with our government spending BILLIONS of $$$s in the invasion/occupaion of Iraq...

Speak for yourself. However I don't view it as a total waste.

BigChiefFan
03-29-2010, 12:03 PM
It is quite ironic that tea baggers had no problem with our government spending BILLIONS of $$$s in the invasion/occupaion of Iraq... talk about a complete waste of the tax payers dollars.



I tend to agree with this sentiment, but better late, than never, IMO.

|Zach|
03-29-2010, 01:02 PM
I would have to agree.


The left side has been doing this stuff for decades. Why is it such a big deal that the right is up in arms?


I think that people that really matter are too busy for this kind of bullshit, but that's just me.

I'm surprised anyone on the left would have anything to say at all about what these people do and say, considering the history of demonstrators and protesters from the left the past couple of decades.

And they were always made fun of (sometimes justifiably) for being fringe whack jobs or slackers without jobs. But now its supposed to be really noble.

|Zach|
03-29-2010, 01:05 PM
It's not just you; a lot of people would like to think the tea party movement is a bunch of hype...especially politicians...it helps them sleep better at night.

I am not seeing a lot of difference between all of this and the "hope and change" build up that gets so much ridicule.

Everyone is like...ok you are going for hope and change...and then what...

For this it is...

You want to change who is in congress...and then what...

It seems when people want to emote...like in both of these instances it is really easy to do. But when these movements have the power to do actionable things. Well, that is a different story.

fan4ever
03-29-2010, 01:31 PM
I am not seeing a lot of difference between all of this and the "hope and change" build up that gets so much ridicule.

Everyone is like...ok you are going for hope and change...and then what...

For this it is...

You want to change who is in congress...and then what...

It seems when people want to emote...like in both of these instances it is really easy to do. But when these movements have the power to do actionable things. Well, that is a different story.

I think you're largely oversimplifying the birth and development of the Tea Party movement; it's not even close to those who embraced "Hope and Change" IMO. These people are reacting to real issues that they are genuinely angry about and are going to impact this country; not just glomming on to an idealogy like Hope and Change.

Reaper16
03-29-2010, 01:33 PM
I think you're largely oversimplifying the birth and development of the Tea Party movement; it's not even close to those who embraced "Hope and Change" IMO. These people are reacting to real issues that they are genuinely angry about and are going to impact this country; not just glomming on to an idealogy like Hope and Change.
Ah yes, the "I know you are but what am I" approach. Good show.

fan4ever
03-29-2010, 01:42 PM
Ah yes, the "I know you are but what am I" approach. Good show.

Uh, OK??? :rolleyes:

|Zach|
03-29-2010, 01:48 PM
I think you're largely oversimplifying the birth and development of the Tea Party movement; it's not even close to those who embraced "Hope and Change" IMO. These people are reacting to real issues that they are genuinely angry about and are going to impact this country; not just glomming on to an idealogy like Hope and Change.

I don't think you are giving enough credit to how similar the two things are.

BigChiefFan
03-29-2010, 01:50 PM
Alot of the tea-partiers, are the same people, that thought we'd be getting a less corrupted politician in Obama.

NewChief
03-29-2010, 01:51 PM
I am not seeing a lot of difference between all of this and the "hope and change" build up that gets so much ridicule.

Everyone is like...ok you are going for hope and change...and then what...

For this it is...

You want to change who is in congress...and then what...

It seems when people want to emote...like in both of these instances it is really easy to do. But when these movements have the power to do actionable things. Well, that is a different story.

I've been mulling this a lot as well. It's amazing how quickly the status quo quickly become "revolutionaries" once they're ousted from power. Suddenly, they're completely dissatisfied with Washington DC and they're all gloomy about the direction of our country. And they love to rail against the establishment. Only a year ago, they were the establishment and were defending the status quo. They hope to attract a broader base and they think it gives them more credibility to try to claim "outsider" status. As if they're going to come in and clean up Washington with their movement. Of course, once they get elected... it's right back to business as usual.

And yes... that can apply to either Hopey Changey or Tea Party revolutionaries.

|Zach|
03-29-2010, 01:52 PM
The night Brown won his election while all the right leaning members of this board were doing victory laps and telling me how health care was dead and on and on.

I kept asking...then what.

You are looking to unseat the people in power right now and then you are going to.... [blank]

The tea party or the GOP absolutely does not have that blank. The GOP folks tried to prop up McCain and Palin last time around. T0m Cash seemed to have the best answer though. He at least point to me to GOP.org. lol

It is really easy to want change and emote.

fan4ever
03-29-2010, 02:00 PM
I've been mulling this a lot as well. It's amazing how quickly the status quo quickly become "revolutionaries" once they're ousted from power. Suddenly, they're completely dissatisfied with Washington DC and they're all gloomy about the direction of our country. And they love to rail against the establishment. Only a year ago, they were the establishment and were defending the status quo. They hope to attract a broader base and they think it gives them more credibility to try to claim "outsider" status. As if they're going to come in and clean up Washington with their movement. Of course, once they get elected... it's right back to business as usual.

And yes... that can apply to either Hopey Changey or Tea Party revolutionaries.

...and that unfortunately is the nature of the Washington Beast, isn't it?

If you haven't already rent "Mr. Smith goes to Washington". They felt politicians were every bit as corrupt 60 years ago as we do today.

fan4ever
03-29-2010, 02:05 PM
The night Brown won his election while all the right leaning members of this board were doing victory laps and telling me how health care was dead and on and on.

I kept asking...then what.

You are looking to unseat the people in power right now and then you are going to.... [blank]

The tea party or the GOP absolutely does not have that blank. The GOP folks tried to prop up McCain and Palin last time around. T0m Cash seemed to have the best answer though. He at least point to me to GOP.org. lol

It is really easy to want change and emote.

There's no doubt that any real impact by the Tea Partiers is going to require diligence and unity...we'll see if they have that; obviously, I really don't think it's just a group of protestors letting off steam.

kcfanXIII
03-29-2010, 02:23 PM
It is quite ironic that tea baggers had no problem with our government spending BILLIONS of $$$s in the invasion/occupaion of Iraq... talk about a complete waste of the tax payers dollars.

The classic neo-con response will be that it is okay to spend on national defense and they will then try to convince everyone that Iraq in 2003 under Saddam (with no WMDs, a military in shambles and no connection to 9/11) was somehow a threat to our national security.

The tea baggers and the GOP should be forced to explain why they were perfectly fine spending tax payers dollars in Iraq, but have a problem spending on the healthcare of American citizens.

Is Iraq a better investment than the healthcare of American citizens?

two wrongs don't make a right. now stfu and get a new argument. "obama can cause bush did" is not a valid argument. they are both evil. furthermore, i'm not sure that all of the tea party patriots were exactly FOR the war. if i remember correctly most of americans were not happy with w's presidency at the end, so once again i think it just goes to show how pissed off people are at both parties for furthering the agenda of an all inclusive, all powerful centralized government. 8 years under the leadership of a puppet like bush, and now a little over a year into the socialist agenda of the obama administration, people are starting to realize the change they want, will not come from washington, but from ourselves. it is our responsibility to fire these thieves, or line them up for a firing squad, if we want change, we have to make it.

Taco John
03-29-2010, 02:25 PM
The night Brown won his election while all the right leaning members of this board were doing victory laps and telling me how health care was dead and on and on.

I kept asking...then what.

You are looking to unseat the people in power right now and then you are going to.... [blank]

The tea party or the GOP absolutely does not have that blank. The GOP folks tried to prop up McCain and Palin last time around. T0m Cash seemed to have the best answer though. He at least point to me to GOP.org. lol

It is really easy to want change and emote.



My Plan for a Freedom President
by Ron Paul (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=224468)
How I would put the Constitution back in the Oval Office

Taco John
03-29-2010, 02:27 PM
Also Zach, I'd like to note that you find yourself in ideological partnership with Kotter, proving unquestionably that you're on the wrong side of the matter... ;)

(search your feelings, Luke. You know it to be true.)

Taco John
03-29-2010, 02:45 PM
Taco is usually an interesting read in DC but I have to admit I am surprised that he sees this movement (based on what I remember reading) as noble as he does.

It seems pretty shallow with things like that last bolded quote.


The movement, like any other movement, starts in one place, and picks up steam as people frustrated with government become attracted to the movement and the message. Not everybody who is attracted to the movement are going to be as well versed on the principles that got the movement underway. This is where you get the "get your government hands off of my medicare" phenomenon.

The quote you reference is a complicated issue. Not everyone understands what free trade is, which is why you have people who believe that "free trade" even exists today, when it does not. What exists today is the progressive form of free trade: managed trade. I'd even call it "corporatist trade." It's basically a form of mecantilism that protects the interests of the largest corporations while limiting the smaller guys - like 90% of all laws created in Washington today do - healthcare reform being an excellent example of such.

The last 100 years of progressive government has basically brought us to the brink of disaster - over-stretched, over-extended, on the brink of bankruptcy. We apparently aren't learning our lessons because we continue to invent programs that can't be paid for. This is what the Tea Party understands from a broad perspective: that no matter how good our intentions are to help people who "can't help themselves," creating programs that require us to provision them with more and ever increasing debt is unsustainable - even if those programs are sold as deficit reducers (a hysterical notion that you can provide coverage for everyone and reduce the debt along the way, you'd have to be a fool to believe it).

I don't expect everyone who joins the Tea Party movement to understand the fine print issues that started the movement. But I do expect them to understand the broad strokes, which is quite simple: government spends too much of our money, and must be reigned in so that future generations may enjoy the liberty which our forefathers bought for us.

|Zach|
03-29-2010, 02:55 PM
Also Zach, I'd like to note that you find yourself in ideological partnership with Kotter, proving unquestionably that you're on the wrong side of the matter... ;)

(search your feelings, Luke. You know it to be true.)

Does not compute!!
ROFL

http://tech911inc.com/images/computer_broken.jpg

|Zach|
03-29-2010, 02:59 PM
My Plan for a Freedom President
by Ron Paul (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=224468)
How I would put the Constitution back in the Oval Office

I don't connect the tea party movement and Paul's. It seems you do. Which is a surprise. Campaign for Liberty advocates seem to have a vision the whole way through, like the link above. You can't say that about the tea party.

Alot of this is a perspective thing maybe. I could be off base but when I am discussing this kind of stuff I absolutely separate Campaign for Liberty types and Tea Party types. Maybe this makes more of my posts make sense.

irishjayhawk
03-29-2010, 03:00 PM
two wrongs don't make a right. now stfu and get a new argument. "obama can cause bush did" is not a valid argument. they are both evil. furthermore, i'm not sure that all of the tea party patriots were exactly FOR the war. if i remember correctly most of americans were not happy with w's presidency at the end, so once again i think it just goes to show how pissed off people are at both parties for furthering the agenda of an all inclusive, all powerful centralized government. 8 years under the leadership of a puppet like bush, and now a little over a year into the socialist agenda of the obama administration, people are starting to realize the change they want, will not come from washington, but from ourselves. it is our responsibility to fire these thieves, or line them up for a firing squad, if we want change, we have to make it.

I'm sorry but I'll take a infrastructure payment over a nation building payment any day.

|Zach|
03-29-2010, 03:04 PM
I don't connect the tea party movement and Paul's. It seems you do. Which is a surprise. Campaign for Liberty advocates seem to have a vision the whole way through, like the link above. You can't say that about the tea party.

Alot of this is a perspective thing maybe. I could be off base but when I am discussing this kind of stuff I absolutely separate Campaign for Liberty types and Tea Party types. Maybe this makes more of my posts make sense.

An analogy.

Campaign for Liberty types are like potential business owners who have a plan for how they think should run business. But don't have the business yet to implement it.

Tea Party types seem like the guys who sit around and talk about how cool it would be to own a bar. How they would never have last call, and how good they would be at it. Only to have the reality of owning a bar blindside them.

irishjayhawk
03-29-2010, 03:04 PM
I'm with you Zach, it's just a yearning to emote.

And almost all of it is hypocritical emoting. Senior citizens claiming socialism whilst benefiting from Social Security. Or being on medicare and railing against the socialist health care reform.

As Orange said in another thread, I will call people out when they're doing a piss poor job (like Obama on Health Care (his tactics sucked balls), Don't Ask Don't Tell repeal, Bush on Iraq, No child Left Behind etc) and when they're doing a good job (Bush post 9/11 aftermath, Bush funding of science programs, Obama cutting faith based initiatives) . It doesn't matter who's in power.

Taco John
03-29-2010, 03:14 PM
I don't connect the tea party movement and Paul's. It seems you do. Which is a surprise. Campaign for Liberty advocates seem to have a vision the whole way through. You can't say that about the tea party.


We do. The same people that were organizing and demonstrating around the Ron Paul campaign are the ones who are organizing and demonstrating in the tea party campaigns. It's true that the "mainstream-ization" of the phenomenon has caused it to take on a bit of a life of it's own. It's a bit of a decentralized movement in that sense, which is its greatest strength and its greatest weakness.

But I participate on the forums in which these things are conceptualized and then executed. It's the same people doing a lot of the core ground work and mobilizing the "troops."

There is an idea that the tea party started in 09. Which it's true that's when it started to gain mainstream appeal. But the Tea Party truly started when it started to organize and fund-raise behind Ron Paul. Those folks didn't just get discouraged and go away when the Paul campaign finished. They didn't just hang up their "don't tread on me flags" in the back corner of their closets, and put away their 1775 costumes and tri cornered hats on the shelf. They got busy and found a way to re-ignite the spark and work to become a major political force in America today.

There are still a lot of questions about the viability of the movement though -- your line of questioning isn't out of order. Not everyone who considers themselves a Tea Partier today adhere to the same principles that those who started the movement in 07 adhere to. You've seen my piece on the four major parties in America today. There's still a battle to be fought for within the ranks to turn this base into a voting block, rather than just an angry mob.

|Zach|
03-29-2010, 03:16 PM
In that case TJ. I think your shit got hijacked.

irishjayhawk
03-29-2010, 03:17 PM
Also, anyone attended a "coffee party"?

|Zach|
03-29-2010, 03:18 PM
Also, anyone attended a "coffee party"?

Now THAT seems like a total and complete sham.

irishjayhawk
03-29-2010, 03:19 PM
Now THAT seems like a total and complete sham.

HLN had a segment on them. I'm not sure exactly what they are. I thought parody group but people were talking so I couldn't hear it.

Taco John
03-29-2010, 03:24 PM
In that case TJ. I think your shit got hijacked.


I have no doubts that there is an internal battle going on for the heart of the tea party. I outline this battle in some detail here (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=223640).

|Zach|
03-29-2010, 03:30 PM
"WTF is going on?"

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/131560/thumbs/s-STEELE-large.jpg

Taco John
03-29-2010, 03:31 PM
"WTF is going on?"

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/131560/thumbs/s-STEELE-large.jpg



Indeed.

When the progressives lost their ideological candidate (Howard Dean), the managed to position him in a role of authority within the party. When the conservatives lost theirs (Ron Paul) they shut him out hoping that he'd go away, and promoted a guy with little credibility as a movement leader.

The Republicans are a broken party right now. I have trouble seeing how they're going to win in November like they imagine they will unless they can get the Tea Party behind them. And without any legislative accomplishment, they're not going to be able to do that.

Here's my letter to minority leader, John Boehner which gives my thoughts on that:






RE: A warning about failing to harness the energy of the Tea Party, and the solution

Dear Rep. Boehner,

I consider myself a member of the Tea Party movement who is reluctant to join forces with the Republicans despite my conservative Idaho roots. I caucused with the Republicans under the Ron Paul banner, and am proud today to say that I voted for the good doctor. I want you, sir, to know that I don’t regret that vote even today. This is an important thing for you to understand and let impact you because it has implications for Republicans this November.

The Republicans need a legislative victory to buy credibility with the Tea Party and you have the power to deliver it by championing two pieces of legislation.

The first is H.R. 1233, the “Taxpayers’ Freedom of Conscience Act,” which thanks to the theatrics of Mr. Stupak, will be a winning issue given the current political atmosphere. This bill will put the Democrats and President Obama on record with the American people on Federal funding of abortion, taking the Stupak side deal out of the back rooms, and making everybody in congress accountable on this last minute sleight-of-hand. You must announce this immediately in response to when the bill is signed. You must make the news cycle about this challenge, and use the word “accountability,” which should be considered the Republican version of “Hope” and “Change.”

The second, Mr. Boehner: your personal championing of the passing of H.R. 1207 will win the Republican Party a very spirited November, especially if you use it to its maximum political potential stressing the message of “accountability,” and positioning the democrats on the wrong side of this “accountability” message. If you want to continue to see Tea Party rallies, I urge you to throw the H.R. 1207 log on the fire and fan it up as bright and hot as possible. Ignoring this issue, or back-burnering it will earn a disappointing November return that will sting both the Republicans and the Tea Party movement. Politically maneuvering it through at least the house will bring Tea Partiers out to vote for Republican senators, and the Republicans across the board will be rewarded with Tea Party votes.

Sir, I believe that H.R. 1207 is the key to November, and the future of America. If you want the Tea Partiers to be reliable allies this November, you must deliver to them H.R. 1207. With that, I believe key to winning or losing the momentum of the tea party for the Republicans is in your hands.

Mr. Boehner, it’s time to drain the swamp.

With regards,
(Me)

Iowanian
03-29-2010, 05:03 PM
I know that I'm more politically upset than I can recall being, and I'm sure that is more widespread than many would think.


That said, I've never stood how anyone doesn't have something better to do than protest. I took 5 minutes to call my 3 congressmen that voted for the health care sodomizing of my country, but that's about it. I've got enough trouble finding time to work in marketing visits, working, volunteering and seeing my family.

RJ
03-29-2010, 05:10 PM
I know that I'm more politically upset than I can recall being, and I'm sure that is more widespread than many would think.


That said, I've never stood how anyone doesn't have something better to do than protest. I took 5 minutes to call my 3 congressmen that voted for the health care sodomizing of my country, but that's about it. I've got enough trouble finding time to work in marketing visits, working, volunteering and seeing my family.

Same here. I see people on TV protesting something and I can't understand where they find the time. Which makes me wonder how a movement aimed at the middle class (It is aimed at the middle class?) can succeed. I mean, most of us middle class types are busy with families and jobs and homes. I think we're a lot more inclined to bitch to each other than to make a sign and head to the next rally.

Taco John
03-29-2010, 05:14 PM
Same here. I see people on TV protesting something and I can't understand where they find the time. Which makes me wonder how a movement aimed at the middle class (It is aimed at the middle class?) can succeed. I mean, most of us middle class types are busy with families and jobs and homes. I think we're a lot more inclined to bitch to each other than to make a sign and head to the next rally.

The movement isn't "aimed at the middle class." It's the excesses of government that is in the the cross hairs, by the middle class.

RJ
03-29-2010, 05:18 PM
The movement isn't "aimed at the middle class." It's the excesses of government that is in the the cross hairs, by the middle class.

Is it made up primarily of middle class folks? Or is that misperception on my part?

Taco John
03-29-2010, 05:25 PM
Is it made up primarily of middle class folks? Or is that misperception on my part?

Most definitely it is made up primarily of middle class folks. They're just regular folks who still believe in the American dream.

stevieray
03-29-2010, 05:26 PM
Is it made up primarily of middle class folks? Or is that misperception on my part?
know anyone with big money who doesn't dress the part?

RJ
03-29-2010, 05:34 PM
know anyone with big money who doesn't dress the part?

Sure, I've known more than a few. They're always the ones who worked hard for their money and I'm sure there are some of them among the tea party.

But there are a lot more middle class folks than folks with money, so I suppose those percentages would hold true.

dirk digler
03-29-2010, 08:07 PM
I really don't think it's just a group of protestors letting off steam.

I do. When they get back to work and the economy improves. Of course they could go back to work now McDonald's is always hiring

Taco John
03-29-2010, 08:43 PM
I do. When they get back to work and the economy improves. Of course they could go back to work now McDonald's is always hiring

I always love the attitude that progressives have towards working class people.

orange
03-29-2010, 08:45 PM
I always love the attitude that progressives have towards working class people.

Time for you to tell us all about your deep, abiding respect for schoolteachers. It positively shines through every time you talk to Mr. Kotter.

notorious
03-29-2010, 08:57 PM
And they were always made fun of (sometimes justifiably) for being fringe whack jobs or slackers without jobs. But now its supposed to be really noble.

Agreed.

Reaper16
03-29-2010, 08:59 PM
I always love the attitude that progressives have towards working class people.
There is some truth to this. There's some truth to a lot of the stereotypes of liberals, such as the "out-of-touch East Coast liberal."

On the other hand there is very little respect to have for jobs int he fast food sector. They're good when they are providing teenagers with disposable income. They're bad when they are the only option in a community for adult jobs; the workers invariably get treated like shit and feel like shit for it.

stevieray
03-29-2010, 09:16 PM
Time for you to tell us all about your deep, abiding respect for schoolteachers. It positively shines through every time you talk to Mr. Kotter.

is it the schoolteacher postion, or postions of said schoolteacher?

:rolleyes:

dirk digler
03-29-2010, 10:37 PM
I always love the attitude that progressives have towards working class people.

I worked in fast food and managed a fast food restaurant for awhile. We were always hiring of course I never could get any Americans to work there that is why we hired Mexicans.

BucEyedPea
03-29-2010, 10:56 PM
The govt better be scared as more lose their jobs....the rest will just boil over with civil unrest.

BigChiefFan
03-29-2010, 11:04 PM
My problem with the Tea Party is Palin. I can't endorse her. She's a loon.

Iowanian
03-29-2010, 11:05 PM
My problem with the Tea Party is Palin. I can't endorse her. She's a loon.

Some serious Irony here.

Taco John
03-29-2010, 11:19 PM
My problem with the Tea Party is Palin. I can't endorse her. She's a loon.


I wouldn't vote for her. I couldn't bring myself to do it.

Taco John
03-29-2010, 11:20 PM
Time for you to tell us all about your deep, abiding respect for schoolteachers. It positively shines through every time you talk to Mr. Kotter.


What are you talking about? I love competent school teachers.

BigChiefFan
03-29-2010, 11:29 PM
Some serious Irony here.Most be awful lonely up on your high horse. Keep on casting stones from your glass house.

ClevelandBronco
03-29-2010, 11:48 PM
Time for you to tell us all about your deep, abiding respect for schoolteachers. It positively shines through every time you talk to Mr. Kotter.

What are you talking about? I love competent school teachers.

That's probably me.

Taco John
03-29-2010, 11:58 PM
That's probably me.

Don't take all the glory. I've gotten my fair share of shots on Kotter.

kcfanXIII
03-30-2010, 12:08 AM
Most be awful lonely up on your high horse. Keep on casting stones from your glass house.

i think he is referencing the irony of you're problem with the tea party being sarah palin. she just decided to associate her face with what is a very popular grassroots movement. its not like she started it or anything, and in fact, most people i know that would associate with the tea party want nothing to with her.

Taco John
03-30-2010, 12:10 AM
i think he is referencing the irony of you're problem with the tea party being sarah palin. she just decided to associate her face with what is a very popular grassroots movement. its not like she started it or anything, and in fact, most people i know that would associate with the tea party want nothing to with her.

I don't know any genuine tea partiers who think of her as anything but a front-running neocon.

Reaper16
03-30-2010, 01:36 AM
Didn't Palin headline a big Tea Party rally in Nevada yesterday? She has some traction with the Tea Party hangers-on at least.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-30-2010, 01:50 AM
I don't know any genuine tea partiers who think of her as anything but a front-running neocon.

No True Scotsman, FTW!!

Taco John
03-30-2010, 01:57 AM
Didn't Palin headline a big Tea Party rally in Nevada yesterday? She has some traction with the Tea Party hangers-on at least.

Indeed, and good for her. I wouldn't vote for her, but I'm sure some would.

notorious
03-30-2010, 06:03 AM
Palin needs to STFU and go away. She is hurting her party a lot more then she is helping.

Norman Einstein
03-30-2010, 06:48 AM
What are you talking about? I love competent school teachers.

If Kotter is a school teacher and you dont' like his methods I would have to assume that you sat in his classes. Otherwise you don't know anything about what he does as a teacher nor should you try to shit in his lunchbox.

BucEyedPea
03-30-2010, 09:42 AM
I don't know any genuine tea partiers who think of her as anything but a front-running neocon.

A NeoCon on training wheels.:)

The Mad Crapper
03-30-2010, 10:18 AM
http://www.moonbattery.com/enlist-irs.jpg

Iowanian
03-30-2010, 11:19 AM
It sounds like the only difference between the unemployed tea party protesters and the thousands of leftotesters, is that there is an expectation that the tea party supporters actually intend to GET jobs in the future.

|Zach|
03-30-2010, 11:40 AM
It sounds like the only difference between the unemployed tea party protesters and the thousands of leftotesters, is that there is an expectation that the tea party supporters actually intend to GET jobs in the future.

Based on?

Iowanian
03-30-2010, 11:55 AM
Truth. reality. history. law of probability.

Take your pick.

|Zach|
03-30-2010, 12:04 PM
Truth. reality. history. law of probability.

Take your pick.

I choose...protesters used to be fringe whackos and now they are noble dissenters because you are partisan.

Mr. Kotter
03-30-2010, 12:12 PM
It sounds like the only difference between the unemployed tea party protesters and the thousands of leftotesters, is that there is an expectation that the tea party supporters actually intend to GET jobs in the future.

There are plenty of government "looters" on the right who are unemployed, "seasonally employed," and living in HUD developments or trailer parks....who bear striking resemblence to the hippy and welfare brigades on the left, yes.

Iowanian
03-30-2010, 01:23 PM
The fact that many of them joined the Tea Party after losing their jobs raises questions of whether the movement can survive an improvement in the economy, with people trading protest signs for paychecks."

you highlighted and bolded this very quote in your thread starter Zach, it appears that it's basically saying what I did a couple of posts up.

I've also stated in this very thread that I don't see how anyone has time to be a protester and that it's a waste of time.


kotter, keep dancing around things all you want, but it won't make you look like any less of an idiot than normal.
http://i.imgur.com/DL59h.gif