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TRR
04-18-2010, 10:56 AM
Not sure if it has been posted.....

Chiefs Are 'Badly' Trying To Trade Down To Middle Of First*Round

by Joel Thorman on Apr 18, 2010 10:34 AM CDT in 2010 Campaign

Last year about this time, Michael Lombardi of the National Football Post first reported that the Chiefs were "in love" with LSU DE Tyson Jackson. A few days later and Jackson was the Chiefs pick in the draft.

Now Lombardi reports that the Chiefs are trying like hell to move down in the draft.

"The Chiefs are trying, and I mean really trying, to move down," Lombardi reports. "My sources tell me they'll be willing to go down as far as 15 for the right deal because they feel they can find a player in that range."

It's a fine line between trading down and trading down too far. According to Lombardi, our theory of the Eagles offering up the 24th and 37th picks for the Chiefs fifth pick doesn't look like it's happening. By staying around 15, they can still have a shot at a game changer -- Alabama LB Rolando McClain and Texas S Earl Thomas come to mind here -- as well as picking up extra selections.

That said, who's the Chiefs trading partner? SB Nation's Mocking The Draft takes an excellent look at this situation and comes to the conclusion that San Francisco might be the only team in that area that has a chance of moving up.

Lombardi reports the Chiefs are hoping someone wants to get in line to pick Notre Dame QB Jimmy Clausen.

Rain Man
04-18-2010, 11:01 AM
If that's true, then what does it mean? I would think it means they're wanting to go offensive line.

chiefzilla1501
04-18-2010, 11:01 AM
Not sure if it has been posted.....

Chiefs Are 'Badly' Trying To Trade Down To Middle Of First*Round

by Joel Thorman on Apr 18, 2010 10:34 AM CDT in 2010 Campaign

Last year about this time, Michael Lombardi of the National Football Post first reported that the Chiefs were "in love" with LSU DE Tyson Jackson. A few days later and Jackson was the Chiefs pick in the draft.

Now Lombardi reports that the Chiefs are trying like hell to move down in the draft.

"The Chiefs are trying, and I mean really trying, to move down," Lombardi reports. "My sources tell me they'll be willing to go down as far as 15 for the right deal because they feel they can find a player in that range."

It's a fine line between trading down and trading down too far. According to Lombardi, our theory of the Eagles offering up the 24th and 37th picks for the Chiefs fifth pick doesn't look like it's happening. By staying around 15, they can still have a shot at a game changer -- Alabama LB Rolando McClain and Texas S Earl Thomas come to mind here -- as well as picking up extra selections.

That said, who's the Chiefs trading partner? SB Nation's Mocking The Draft takes an excellent look at this situation and comes to the conclusion that San Francisco might be the only team in that area that has a chance of moving up.

Lombardi reports the Chiefs are hoping someone wants to get in line to pick Notre Dame QB Jimmy Clausen.

I don't mind a trade down. But moving a few extra spots for one extra pick when Clausen and Berry on the board reeks of stupid. If it's two extra picks (both of second round value or higher), I can deal.

In fact, I'd much rather trade down to the 20's and pick up an extra pick than pick up an average LB like McClain.

Now, if they trade down and take the top pass rusher on the board, that's a move I can deal with.

milkman
04-18-2010, 11:02 AM
It's more detailed that Bad Guy's thread, but a repost still.

This is a perfect example to illustrate the reason that draft talk shouldn't be seperated by a different forum.

milkman
04-18-2010, 11:05 AM
If that's true, then what does it mean? I would think it means they're wanting to go offensive line.

No, how the hell do you get that from this?

Myopia rules this damn forum sometimes.

kchero
04-18-2010, 11:05 AM
I am high on S Earl Thomas, so if we could move down and still get a solid saftey and maybe address another need as well that would be fantastic.

Lono
04-18-2010, 11:05 AM
Weatherspoon will be a better linebacker in the NFL than McClain. I will be pissed if we draft McClain.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2010, 11:07 AM
Sure they want to trade down.

Why draft a superstar when you can move down, save money, pick a lessor talent, and pick up a couple of 2nd round picks?

:facepalm:

TRR
04-18-2010, 11:07 AM
It's more detailed that Bad Guy's thread, but a repost still.

This is a perfect example to illustrate the reason that draft talk shouldn't be seperated by a different forum.

My sincere apologies.
Posted via Mobile Device

Rain Man
04-18-2010, 11:07 AM
No, how the hell do you get that from this?

Myopia rules this damn forum sometimes.


I've been hearing that there are a slew of offensive tackles available, and I hear about only 2 QBs 1 or 2 RBs, there are questions about every receiver, 2 safeties, 1 CB, and maybe a couple of linebackers. Could be that they want Dan Williams and presume he'll slide, but a low-risk move would be assuming they want one of the herd of offensive linemen.

Rain Man
04-18-2010, 11:08 AM
Sure they want to trade down.

Why draft a superstar when you can move down, save money, pick a lessor talent, and pick up a couple of 2nd round picks?

:facepalm:


This is pretty much where I stand, too. Trade-downs in my opinion are almost always a bad move.

Pawnmower
04-18-2010, 11:09 AM
It's more detailed that Bad Guy's thread, but a repost still.

This is a perfect example to illustrate the reason that draft talk shouldn't be seperated by a different forum.

I kindof agree with you on this....I think there should be just a "Lounge" where you talk about anything but football and a "Field" where you talk about football....If it was like that, there wouldnt be a need for a draft section.

chiefzilla1501
04-18-2010, 11:10 AM
Sure they want to trade down.

Why draft a superstar when you can move down, save money, pick a lessor talent, and pick up a couple of 2nd round picks?

:facepalm:

It had better be a pass rusher. And we better get one hell of a value. Otherwise, this is a ridiculously stupid trade.

Mr. Arrowhead
04-18-2010, 11:11 AM
If that's true, then what does it mean? I would think it means they're wanting to go offensive line.

I disagree, i think it means we are eying Mcclain or Earl Thomas

SNR
04-18-2010, 11:12 AM
Oh, this makes perfect sense.

When you have dogshit at the top of the draft, stay at your spot and reach hard for a fat fuck to take up blockers.

When you have several great options to pick from a variety of extremely talented players at the top of the draft, trade out of that talent tier, draft another fatass of some type, and pick up more picks.

This fucking franchise makes me want to shoot my sister

Pawnmower
04-18-2010, 11:12 AM
I disagree, i think it means we are eying Mcclain or Earl Thomas

Yah and maybe a RT with the extra pick.

milkman
04-18-2010, 11:13 AM
My sincere apologies.
Posted via Mobile Device

I'm not getting on you for reposting.

I only posted that because of the seperation of forums.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2010, 11:14 AM
Oh, this makes perfect sense.

When you have dogshit at the top of the draft, stay at your spot and reach hard for a fat fuck to take up blockers.

When you have several great options to pick from a variety of extremely talented players at the top of the draft, trade out of that talent tier, draft another fatass of some type, and pick up more picks.

This fucking franchise makes me want to shoot my sister

We can only hope that Lombardi is doing his usual, being a dumbass.

chiefzilla1501
04-18-2010, 11:14 AM
This is pretty much where I stand, too. Trade-downs in my opinion are almost always a bad move.

I've been a big supporter of trade downs. But only if....
You get a huge draft compensation

OR

You think there's either a superstar at a lower positional value like Safety or a very good player at a high positional value like 3-4 OLB at that spot

OR

You're absolutely convinced that there are playmakers you need where you sit (like last year, where I think we absolutely should have traded down)

Because there are playmakers we can take, if we trade down, we sure as hell better get good trade value. And we sure as hell better not take a "safe" position like ILB or RT or a second-tier Safety like Thomas.

Pawnmower
04-18-2010, 11:14 AM
I'm not getting on you for reposting.

I only posted that because of the seperation of forums.

What do you think about changing the layout to have one forum for non-football stuff (the lounge) and one forum for football and draft stuff (yet to be named) and getting rid of the draft forum?

Mr. Flopnuts
04-18-2010, 11:16 AM
LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA

Hurry the fuck up April 22. This shit is getting unbearable.

Ari Chi3fs
04-18-2010, 11:17 AM
This is pretty much where I stand, too. Trade-downs in my opinion are almost always a bad move.

It worked in 2003, when we traded down to get Larry Johnson... we didn't need any defensive guys like Troy Paluamalu or anything. Especially in 2003 with GRob's awesome D.

Hog Farmer
04-18-2010, 11:17 AM
I'm glad so many of you are smarter than Pioli.

I'm all for trading down and still being able to get an Earl Thomas ,Dan Williams or even Taylor Mays

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2010, 11:18 AM
LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA

Hurry the fuck up April 22. This shit is getting unbearable.

Sadly, there's a damn good chance it gets worse over the weekend.

milkman
04-18-2010, 11:19 AM
What do you think about changing the layout to have one forum for non-football stuff (the lounge) and one forum for football and draft stuff (yet to be named) and getting rid of the draft forum?

I'm fine with the lounge as it is.

I have always been a detractor of the idea that draft talk, regardless of the time of year, should be in a seperate forum.

The only difference now and the rest of the year is that the draft forum appears at the top of the lounge.

Woodrow Call
04-18-2010, 11:19 AM
Not my first choice but if Berry or Clausen aren't going to happen then go for it. Just glad the seem to be unwilling to trade back into the 20's.
Posted via Mobile Device

Pawnmower
04-18-2010, 11:19 AM
I'm glad so many of you are smarter than Pioli.

I'm all for trading down and still being able to get an Earl Thomas ,Dan Williams or even Taylor Mays

Agree 100%. Its too bad some of these guys can't work for the Chiefs, we would win superbowls every season.....I guess its a shame they are too busy posting messages on a message board to get a job.

TheGuardian
04-18-2010, 11:19 AM
Lombardi reports the Chiefs are hoping someone wants to get in line to pick Notre Dame QB Jimmy Clausen.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2010, 11:20 AM
I'm glad so many of you are smarter than Pioli.

I'm all for trading down and still being able to get an Earl Thomas ,Dan Williams or even Taylor Mays

Good thing you jack off hogs for a living.

Having a Top 5 pick and only getting Thomas, Williams or Mays - and a 2nd and/or 3rd round pick to show for it - is criminal.

milkman
04-18-2010, 11:20 AM
I'm glad so many of you are smarter than Pioli.

I'm all for trading down and still being able to get an Earl Thomas ,Dan Williams or even Taylor Mays

I'm glad you recognize the fact that there are those that appear to be samrter than Pioli.

rep.

chiefzilla1501
04-18-2010, 11:22 AM
I'm glad so many of you are smarter than Pioli.

I'm all for trading down and still being able to get an Earl Thomas ,Dan Williams or even Taylor Mays

Trading down a playmaker for a safe but relatively effective player is a horrible decision. That's essentially what they're doing here.

If they're trading down, they need to either get two first day picks or they need to take a guy with playmaker potential, like potentially a 3-4 OLB.

It's not like last year, when it was pretty much Sanchez or second-rate first round prospects. This year, Berry is very likely going to be on our board and there isn't a single person who would disagree that this kid is going to be a playmaker.

Hog Farmer
04-18-2010, 11:24 AM
Trading down a playmaker for a safe but relatively effective player is a horrible decision. That's essentially what they're doing here.

If they're trading down, they need to either get two first day picks or they need to take a guy with playmaker potential, like potentially a 3-4 OLB.

It's not like last year, when it was pretty much Sanchez or second-rate first round prospects. This year, Berry is very likely going to be on our board and there isn't a single person who would disagree that this kid is going to be a playmaker.

What if Berry gets killed in an auto accident the day after we draft him. Then you'll wish we had traded down and taken Earl Thomas.

The Bad Guy
04-18-2010, 11:24 AM
Clark Hunt's business model is something to behold.

Pay a GM 5 million a year.

Pay 2 coordinators over 4 million combined a year.

Pay the HC 3 million a year.

Have the lowest fucking payroll in the entire NFL.

Reward shit players with big contracts, have your highest paid player be a 5 technique who can't rush the QB.

I'm going to open up a garage and pay a top mechanic. Then I'm going to buy the mechanic some spare tools that I picked up at a junk yard. That should really benefit my business.

If I could rewind the tape to when I was 9, I'd pick a new fucking team. This shit makes me fucking furious.

the Talking Can
04-18-2010, 11:25 AM
yeah

screw berry, who needs great players....

what we need is a whole mess of just players....

Mr. Laz
04-18-2010, 11:25 AM
if they move down they better get freakin paid for it

Hog Farmer
04-18-2010, 11:26 AM
Clark Hunt's business model is something to behold.

Pay a GM 5 million a year.

Pay 2 coordinators over 4 million combined a year.

Pay the HC 3 million a year.

Have the lowest ****ing payroll in the entire NFL.

Reward shit players with big contracts, have your highest paid player be a 5 technique who can't rush the QB.

I'm going to open up a garage and pay a top mechanic. Then I'm going to buy the mechanic some spare tools that I picked up at a junk yard. That should really benefit my business.

If I could rewind the tape to when I was 9, I'd pick a new ****ing team. This shit makes me ****ing furious.


Calm down, just remember Carl is gone and Pioli AND Clark are both way smarter than you.

the Talking Can
04-18-2010, 11:26 AM
Oh, this makes perfect sense.

When you have dogshit at the top of the draft, stay at your spot and reach hard for a fat **** to take up blockers.

When you have several great options to pick from a variety of extremely talented players at the top of the draft, trade out of that talent tier, draft another fatass of some type, and pick up more picks.

This ****ing franchise makes me want to shoot my sister

rep

i want to shoot that bitch too

chiefzilla1501
04-18-2010, 11:27 AM
What if Berry gets killed in an auto accident the day after we draft him. Then you'll wish we had traded down and taken Earl Thomas.

Touche`

The Bad Guy
04-18-2010, 11:27 AM
Calm down, just remember Carl is gone and Pioli AND Clark are both way smarter than you.

When you post something substancial, please let me know.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2010, 11:28 AM
yeah

screw berry, who needs great players....

what we need is a whole mess of just players....

Well, he's doing a damn good job at getting JAG's. (Just Another Guy)

Hell, Pioli was quoted as saying something to the extent of, My job is to build a team, not collect talent.

Someone has seen Hoosiers and the Mighty Ducks movies one too many fucking times.

Hog Farmer
04-18-2010, 11:28 AM
When you post something substancial, please let me know.

Ok.

I have that scheduled for Tuesday.

milkman
04-18-2010, 11:29 AM
Calm down, just remember Carl is gone and Pioli AND Clark are both way smarter than you.

Why would I remember something that hasn't been proven?

the Talking Can
04-18-2010, 11:30 AM
Calm down, just remember Carl is gone and Pioli AND Clark are both way smarter than you.

at what?

finding and acquiring players that suck?

Reaper16
04-18-2010, 11:30 AM
Welp, I'm already resigned that its going to happen. Fuck.

What matters now is the compensation. This draft is deep enough that a trade down could yield a bevy of starters if Pioli drafts appropriately. (Haha.)

philfree
04-18-2010, 11:30 AM
They obviously have someone targeted and if they can't trade they will probably reach. If they get the right player it will be fine. This place is gonna explode though.


PhilFree:arrow:

dirk digler
04-18-2010, 11:32 AM
What would a team have to give up to move up? I am thinking a swap of 1st round picks and 2 extra picks at least.

the Talking Can
04-18-2010, 11:35 AM
What would a team have to give up to move up? I am thinking a swap of 1st round picks and 2 extra picks at least.


i think a coupon for a bill parcell's back rub and an italian sausage is all it will take....

Ralphy Boy
04-18-2010, 11:35 AM
Not sure if it has been posted.....

Chiefs Are 'Badly' Trying To Trade Down To Middle Of First*Round

by Joel Thorman on Apr 18, 2010 10:34 AM CDT in 2010 Campaign

Last year about this time, Michael Lombardi of the National Football Post first reported that the Chiefs were "in love" with LSU DE Tyson Jackson. A few days later and Jackson was the Chiefs pick in the draft.

Now Lombardi reports that the Chiefs are trying like hell to move down in the draft.

"The Chiefs are trying, and I mean really trying, to move down," Lombardi reports. "My sources tell me they'll be willing to go down as far as 15 for the right deal because they feel they can find a player in that range."

It's a fine line between trading down and trading down too far. According to Lombardi, our theory of the Eagles offering up the 24th and 37th picks for the Chiefs fifth pick doesn't look like it's happening. By staying around 15, they can still have a shot at a game changer -- Alabama LB Rolando McClain and Texas S Earl Thomas come to mind here -- as well as picking up extra selections.

That said, who's the Chiefs trading partner? SB Nation's Mocking The Draft takes an excellent look at this situation and comes to the conclusion that San Francisco might be the only team in that area that has a chance of moving up.

Lombardi reports the Chiefs are hoping someone wants to get in line to pick Notre Dame QB Jimmy Clausen.

Oh this just couldn't happen. San Fran trades up to 5 (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=226591)? :rolleyes:


I don't mind a trade down. But moving a few extra spots for one extra pick when Clausen and Berry on the board reeks of stupid. If it's two extra picks (both of second round value or higher), I can deal.

In fact, I'd much rather trade down to the 20's and pick up an extra pick than pick up an average LB like McClain.

Now, if they trade down and take the top pass rusher on the board, that's a move I can deal with.

I agree they need a pass rusher, but McClain is average? No, he's FAR better than average.


Weatherspoon will be a better linebacker in the NFL than McClain. I will be pissed if we draft McClain.

We have one of the worst run defense's in the league and you'd be pissed if we got the best ILB in the draft? I also like Weatherspoon a lot, but I certainly wouldn't be pissed if we drafted McClain.

I kindof agree with you on this....I think there should be just a "Lounge" where you talk about anything but football and a "Field" where you talk about football....If it was like that, there wouldnt be a need for a draft section.

THIS!!

the Talking Can
04-18-2010, 11:35 AM
why on god's green earth would we not draft Berry?


Tyson Jackson is good enough for the Chiefs but Berry isn't?

FD
04-18-2010, 11:37 AM
Just to clarify one thing, don't anybody act like Earl Thomas is not a big time playmaker. He was just a sophomore last season and had more interceptions than Berry ever had in a season, and returned as many of them for touchdowns as Berry ever did.

chiefzilla1501
04-18-2010, 11:39 AM
Oh this just couldn't happen. San Fran trades up to 5 (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=226591)? :rolleyes:

I agree they need a pass rusher, but McClain is average? No, he's FAR better than average.
He's a good ILB. But given that ILBs have low positional value and that he's not what you'd consider elite, passing up on an elite player like Berry for him is stupid, unless you get tremendous trade value.

We have one of the worst run defense's in the league and you'd be pissed if we got the best ILB in the draft? I also like Weatherspoon a lot, but I certainly wouldn't be pissed if we drafted McClain.
Our run defense is one of the worst in the league because we don't have a Nose Tackle that can take on 3 blockers and keep them off of the ILB. I still believe ILB is one of the least important positions in this defense. If Tyson Jackson and Dorsey improve and we get a legit Nose Tackle, between Demorrio, DJ, Mays, and Belcher, we can probably find a set of ILBs who do their job just fine.

Hog Farmer
04-18-2010, 11:39 AM
Why would I remember something that hasn't been proven?

Look at what Pioli has done in his first full year.

Haley
Weis
Crennel

Chambers
Weigeman
Lilja
T.Jones

LJ Canned

ALL Solid Moves

09 Draft, Tyson Jackson ? I think we'll be happy in the foreseeable future with him

There is absolutely NO reason to say Pioli isn't doing things right. You'll see a solid draft this year but people who think Eric Berry is Jesus just don't look at the big picture.

TheGuardian
04-18-2010, 11:40 AM
why on god's green earth would we not draft Berry?


Tyson Jackson is good enough for the Chiefs but Berry isn't?

My thoughts exactly.

Passing on Berry seems like the dumbest thing this franchise could do at this point IMO. A leader on defense, smart kid with a great background and good off the field values. Looks like one of those once every 10-15 year guys. And we're going to trade down for..................Earl fucking Thomas?

Icon
04-18-2010, 11:41 AM
why on god's green earth would we not draft Berry?


Tyson Jackson is good enough for the Chiefs but Berry isn't?

Good point.


What was Pioli's quote? "I'm not looking for the most talented players. I'm looking for the right players". Well in this case (Berry) Berry is the most talented and a "Right 53" type of player.

Reaper16
04-18-2010, 11:41 AM
This is how pessimistic I am that the Chiefs will make something out of this draft: I'm somewhat excited about a trade down just to see how much every other team's plans get fucked with a new team picking at #5. Watching that chaos ensue sounds more enjoyable than watching the Chiefs attempt to make solid picks.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2010, 11:42 AM
This is how pessimistic I am that the Chiefs will make something out of this draft: I'm somewhat excited about a trade down just to see how much every other team's plans get fucked with a new team picking at #5. Watching that chaos ensue sounds more enjoyable than watching the Chiefs attempt to make solid picks.

LMAO

Mr. Flopnuts
04-18-2010, 11:42 AM
Honestly, if we trade down and draft Taylor Mays I'll be thrilled. I think he'll be the best safety out of this class anyways.

/Ducks

Delano
04-18-2010, 11:42 AM
They obviously have someone targeted and if they can't trade they will probably reach. If they get the right player it will be fine. This place is gonna explode though.


PhilFree:arrow:

Tyson Jackson was the right player last year, amirite?
Posted via Mobile Device

philfree
04-18-2010, 11:43 AM
The 9ers give up their #13(1150) and #17(950) for our #5(1700) and #50(400) They give up 100 points because they are moving up or we can give them a 5th round pick too so they lose about 60 points.

PhilFree:arrow:

philfree
04-18-2010, 11:44 AM
Tyson Jackson was the right player last year, amirite?
Posted via Mobile Device

Apparently.


PhilFree:arrow:

ChiefMojo
04-18-2010, 11:44 AM
That is what I don't get... why do some of you think just because we don't take Berry or Clausen that guys like McClain, Spoon, Thomas, etc. are garbage? There isn't much difference to many between Berry and Thomas. Some worry we would be reaching for McClain at #5, but if we trade back then it makes sense for McClain or Spoon. It isn't we are being cheap, we are getting players nearly equal of talent, but also adding another top of the line draft pick.

We have a lot of holes to fill and it isn't stupid to take Thomas/another early pick over Berry. Sure I want Berry as well, but Thomas isn't crap, but a VERY GOOD player himself.

milkman
04-18-2010, 11:45 AM
Look at what Pioli has done in his first full year.

Haley
Weis
Crennel

Chambers
Weigeman
Lilja
T.Jones

LJ Canned

ALL Solid Moves

09 Draft, Tyson Jackson ? I think we'll be happy in the foreseeable future with him

There is absolutely NO reason to say Pioli isn't doing things right. You'll see a solid draft this year but people who think Eric Berry is Jesus just don't look at the big picture.

If I look at what Pioli has done his first full year, I fire his dumb ass, yesterday.

This offseason has been better than his first offseason, and season, but he has a hell of a long way to go to show me that he isn't just some dumbass that exemplifies the Peter Principle.

Mr. Laz
04-18-2010, 11:46 AM
Honestly, if we trade down and draft Taylor Mays I'll be thrilled. I think he'll be the best safety out of this class anyways.

/Ducks
OMG :banghead:


i just don't know what the hell you guys see in Mays.

dirk digler
04-18-2010, 11:46 AM
i think a coupon for a bill parcell's back rub and an italian sausage is all it will take....

LMAO I hope not I really want Berry. I wish Thursday would hurry up and get here.

DeezNutz
04-18-2010, 11:47 AM
Good thing you jack off hogs for a living.

Having a Top 5 pick and only getting Thomas, Williams or Mays - and a 2nd and/or 3rd round pick to show for it - is criminal.

One of the funnier opening sentences I've seen in awhile.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-18-2010, 11:47 AM
OMG :banghead:


i just don't know what the hell you guys see in Mays.

A genetic freak with no ceiling.

The Bad Guy
04-18-2010, 11:47 AM
That is what I don't get... why do some of you think just because we don't take Berry or Clausen that guys like McClain, Spoon, Thomas, etc. are garbage? There isn't much difference to many between Berry and Thomas. Some worry we would be reaching for McClain at #5, but if we trade back then it makes sense for McClain or Spoon. It isn't we are being cheap, we are getting players nearly equal of talent, but also adding another top of the line draft pick.

We have a lot of holes to fill and it isn't stupid to take Thomas/another early pick over Berry. Sure I want Berry as well, but Thomas isn't crap, but a VERY GOOD player himself.

Blah, blah, blah.

Thomas isn't close in my eyes to Berry.

I'd also be very very leery of Texas safeties in the NFL. Huff and Michael Griffin have been pure trash in the NFL.

You don't think we are getting cheap with this payroll? Really? Did you live under a rock the last year and a half?

So translation? We have a lot of holes to fill, but we need quantity instead of top quality. Thank you for repeating the constant mantra of Chiefs fans for the last 10 years. Who needs studs when we can have good players?

Rain Man
04-18-2010, 11:47 AM
I guess I should say too that a trade down is fine if we absolutely sodomize some team that has a crush on a player. I recognize that there are some trades that simply can't be turned down because the odds are too good that you'll win. It's fine to go fishing for that.

Hog Farmer
04-18-2010, 11:49 AM
Honestly, if we trade down and draft Taylor Mays I'll be thrilled. I think he'll be the best safety out of this class anyways.

/Ducks

I was just thinking this. 2 months ago everybody was fighting over who was better Berry or Mays.

Now nobody talks about Mays and everybody wants Berry.

Who's to say which will be better Berry,Mays or Thomas. Nobody fuckin knows.

Every year there is a player that gets so much hype ala Aaron Curry. Well Brian Cushing blew his shit away now didn't he.

If Pioli can trade down and get a solid player in the middle ala Tomas or Mays and pick up a 2nd rd starter then the Chiefs will be a better team.

Mr. Laz
04-18-2010, 11:49 AM
A genetic freak with no ceiling.
football player > genetic freak

DeezNutz
04-18-2010, 11:49 AM
Apparently.


PhilFree:arrow:

LMAO.

It's a process.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-18-2010, 11:50 AM
football player > genetic freak

But I think Taylor Mays is a football player. Keep in mind Laz, unlike everyone else here, I've been watching him play since he was 14. He's from my home town.

And hey, I'm not a pro. I've missed on plenty of prospects. Just my opinion.

Rain Man
04-18-2010, 11:51 AM
I swear, if some of you guys were in Green Bay in 1959 you would've run Vince Lombardi out of town. You can't judge guys based on one year of history.

Ralphy Boy
04-18-2010, 11:51 AM
What do you think about changing the layout to have one forum for non-football stuff (the lounge) and one forum for football and draft stuff (yet to be named) and getting rid of the draft forum?

I'm all for it. I could care less to filter out a bunch of threads that have nothing to do with football. Right now the first page threads in the lounge that aren't football related total total around 18 to 20. Football related 5 or 6.

He's a good ILB. But given that ILBs have low positional value and that he's not what you'd consider elite, passing up on an elite player like Berry for him is stupid, unless you get tremendous trade value.

Our run defense is one of the worst in the league because we don't have a Nose Tackle that can take on 3 blockers and keep them off of the ILB. I still believe ILB is one of the least important positions in this defense. If Tyson Jackson and Dorsey improve and we get a legit Nose Tackle, between Demorrio, DJ, Mays, and Belcher, we can probably find a set of ILBs who do their job just fine.

I'm all for Dan Williams if we traded down with San Fran and I knew he would be there at 13.

DeezNutz
04-18-2010, 11:52 AM
People, calm down.

This is an evaluation draft.

philfree
04-18-2010, 11:52 AM
I swear, if some of you guys were in Green Bay in 1959 you would've run Vince Lombardi out of town. You can't judge guys based on one year of history.



Sure they can it's The Chiefs Planet Way!


PhilFree:arrow:

Hog Farmer
04-18-2010, 11:54 AM
I swear, if some of you guys were in Green Bay in 1959 you would've run Vince Lombardi out of town. You can't judge guys based on one year of history.

Peyton Manning sucked his first year and never recovered !

milkman
04-18-2010, 11:56 AM
I swear, if some of you guys were in Green Bay in 1959 you would've run Vince Lombardi out of town. You can't judge guys based on one year of history.

Frankly, I don't know what Lombardi did in his first season as the Packers GM, but I do know that you build teams today far differently than you did in '59.

If Lombardi built the lines first and then went after playmaker positions later, then in '59, he was doing it the right way for that time.

Today's NFL is far different.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2010, 11:58 AM
People, calm down.

This is an evaluation draft.

LMAO

chiefzilla1501
04-18-2010, 11:59 AM
I'm all for it. I could care less to filter out a bunch of threads that have nothing to do with football. Right now the first page threads in the lounge that aren't football related total total around 18 to 20. Football related 5 or 6.



I'm all for Dan Williams if we traded down with San Fran and I knew he would be there at 13.

I'd rather wait until the second round and draft a Nose Tackle like Cody or Cam Thomas, who probably are not a whole lot worse or different than Williams.

DaneMcCloud
04-18-2010, 11:59 AM
Well, I guess if the Chiefs are going to trade down, this is the year to do it.

But they'd better get value and not have to give up any of their current picks to do so.

And yes, there is a big difference between Berry & Thomas: Thomas has only played two years, is two inches shorter and his arms are shorter.

I hope they stay at #5 and pick an elite talent but apparently, they don't think that's necessary.

:facepalm:

DeezNutz
04-18-2010, 12:00 PM
LMAO

Seriously, it sounds really fucking stupid.

But if we can waste an entire calendar year and many find it perfectly acceptable, I see no problem in labeling this a throw-away draft.

What should we expect?!!!? Results?

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2010, 12:02 PM
Seriously, it sounds really fucking stupid.

But if we can waste an entire calendar year and many find it perfectly acceptable, I see no problem in labeling this a throw-away draft.

What should we expect?!!!? Results?

Whoa, whoa there. Results?

Who the fuck are you to expect results 14 months into a new regime?

It's a process.

DaneMcCloud
04-18-2010, 12:02 PM
OMG :banghead:


i just don't know what the hell you guys see in Mays.


I think Mays would be a great pick.

In the third round.

:D

I'm not a fan. He's a physical specimen but has a long way to go before he's anything special as a football player.

DeezNutz
04-18-2010, 12:03 PM
Whoa, whoa there. Results?

Who the **** are you to expect results 14 months into a new regime?

It's a process.

If Pioli wants to trade down, I completely trust his judgment that none of the remaining player are worthy of the #5 overall selection. /Tyson Jackson's mom

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2010, 12:05 PM
If Pioli wants to trade down, I completely trust his judgment that none of the remaining player are worthy of the #5 overall selection. /Tyson Jackson's mom

Oh, shit just got real.

LMAO

Mr. Laz
04-18-2010, 12:07 PM
I guess I should say too that a trade down is fine if we absolutely sodomize some team that has a crush on a player. I recognize that there are some trades that simply can't be turned down because the odds are too good that you'll win. It's fine to go fishing for that.
this

a 2nd rounder to move from 5 to 7 from cleveland

then

both of the 49ers 1st rounders to move from 7 to 13

we end up with

1st round
#13
#17

2nd round
#36
#38
#50

3rd round
#68

4th round
102

5th round
136
142 (from MIA)
144 (from CAR)


it's not my first choice but we could do alot of damage with it

going by Walter's mock we could have

13 - CB Joe Haden
17 - OT anthony Davis
36 - OLB Jerry Hughes
38 - NT Terrance Cody
50 - WR Damien Williams
68 - S Morgan Burnett
102 - C Matt Tennant
136 - ILB Sean Lee
142 - WR/KR Jordan Shipley
144 - DE/OLB O'brien Schofield

chiefzilla1501
04-18-2010, 12:09 PM
Frankly, I don't know what Lombardi did in his first season as the Packers GM, but I do know that you build teams today far differently than you did in '59.

If Lombardi built the lines first and then went after playmaker positions later, then in '59, he was doing it the right way for that time.

Today's NFL is far different.

What would you think if the Chiefs traded down and drafted an OLB? Because that's one scenario that I could be okay with, if they think a guy like Graham or Kindle or Hughes has potential to be a playmaker at that position. Because that's a position that I think is hugely important and grades just about right in the mid first round.

Mr. Laz
04-18-2010, 12:09 PM
I think Mays would be a great pick.

In the third round.

:D

I'm not a fan. He's a physical specimen but has a long way to go before he's anything special as a football player.
agreed

Douche Baggins
04-18-2010, 12:11 PM
I don't know what this means for certain, but it would seem to indicate absolutely zero interest in Jimmy Clausen.

Sad.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2010, 12:13 PM
I don't know what this means for certain, but it would seem to indicate absolutely zero interest in Jimmy Clausen.

Sad.

It could mean Lombardi's a fucktard.

Funny how last year, you'd think they'd take anything for a trade down, and Lombardi fucks any leverage they had by falsely reporting that we had signed Cassel to a long-term deal.

Now he's fucking their leverage again, by reporting that we're desperate to move down.

Fucking ass clown.

KCDC
04-18-2010, 12:14 PM
We should have traded down last year. Other than the QB positions, the talent in the top 5 or so was not appreciably better than guys in the mid-round. Oher was better than J. Smith, Monroe or Andre Smith at LT, Cushing, and others, were better than Curry, for example. I see lots of talent available at #9-15. If we get a second rounder extra in the top 50, that's pretty good value this year. You get Earl Thomas, Dan Williams, or a top rushbacker (and maybe even Clausen) and then you have three picks at the top of the second (instead of two). There are still very talented players available in the top 50 at NT, RT, WR, LB.

It appears that Pioli may not be sold on Clausen at #5 and is looking for a reach. If you are going to reach anyway, then you might as well get a pick.

The other thing I like about this is that Pioli is making the calls now to judge what teams might want. I hate it when I get the feeling that GMs just wait for the 15 minutes on draft day to get the call, sitting there only with the Value table as their friend. That is when mistakes are made. Knowing who is interested in moving up and what they would offer, before Thursday, is a very good exercise. It doesn't mean that he will trade, but at least he knows the market value of the #5 pick and can factor that in to his decision-making process.

salame
04-18-2010, 12:14 PM
I'd rather wait until the second round and draft a Nose Tackle like Cody or Cam Thomas, who probably are not a whole lot worse or different than Williams.

dan Williams is not a very good fit at nt for the chiefs

milkman
04-18-2010, 12:15 PM
What would you think if the Chiefs traded down and drafted an OLB? Because that's one scenario that I could be okay with, if they think a guy like Graham or Kindle or Hughes has potential to be a playmaker at that position. Because that's a position that I think is hugely important and grades just about right in the mid first round.

I've said this before.

There are three elite prospects in this draft.

Suh
McCoy
Berry

We look like we are going to have a shot at the one that fills a huge hole on our roster.

If we trade down, we better be raping the team that we trade down with.

philfree
04-18-2010, 12:15 PM
I don't know what this means for certain, but it would seem to indicate absolutely zero interest in Jimmy Clausen.

Sad.

Unless it's a bluff so teams don't think we want Clausen so they don't trade in front of us to get him and just when they think they hung us out we take Clausen.

PhilFree:arrow:
~I really don't believe that~

Douche Baggins
04-18-2010, 12:15 PM
It could mean Lombardi's a fucktard.

Funny how last year, you'd think they'd take anything for a trade down, and Lombardi fucks any leverage they had by falsely reporting that we had signed Cassel to a long-term deal.

Now he's fucking their leverage again, by reporting that we're desperate to move down.

Fucking ass clown.

Trust a fucking Raider.

chiefzilla1501
04-18-2010, 12:16 PM
I don't know what this means for certain, but it would seem to indicate absolutely zero interest in Jimmy Clausen.

Sad.

A really big reach, but it could also be a way of getting feelers for Clausen's value or maybe trying to fake disinterest in the pick so nobody trades up ahead of them. Like I said, a really big reach.

dtrain
04-18-2010, 12:17 PM
Agree 100%. Its too bad some of these guys can't work for the Chiefs, we would win superbowls every season.....I guess its a shame they are too busy posting messages on a message board to get a job.

ROFL So true!!!

CaliforniaChief
04-18-2010, 12:17 PM
If Lombardi is dialed in like he seems to be....that's too bad.

I fear some of the dots may start to come together for me, which would be regrettable.

Conservative owner hires GM who is a football extension of his conservative approach to business and all other things. Conservative GM builds "solid" organization.

I hope I'm wrong!!! And I'm certainly not decided that this is the case....yet.

Pioli Zombie
04-18-2010, 12:17 PM
I am totally in agreement with the Drafturbators this year. Eric Berry is as close to a lock to be a be Pro Bowl player as you can get. Teamed with Flowers in the backfield and it can change your defense, especially if Crennel can get the young talent on the line and Johnson to play to their best. Berry should be the pick.

milkman
04-18-2010, 12:19 PM
We should have traded down last year. Other than the QB positions, the talent in the top 5 or so was not appreciably better than guys in the mid-round. Oher was better than J. Smith, Monroe or Andre Smith at LT, Cushing, and others, were better than Curry, for example. I see lots of talent available at #9-15. If we get a second rounder extra in the top 50, that's pretty good value this year. You get Earl Thomas, Dan Williams, or a top rushbacker (and maybe even Clausen) and then you have three picks at the top of the second (instead of two). There are still very talented players available in the top 50 at NT, RT, WR, LB.

It appears that Pioli may not be sold on Clausen at #5 and is looking for a reach. If you are going to reach anyway, then you might as well get a pick.

The other thing I like about this is that Pioli is making the calls now to judge what teams might want. I hate it when I get the feeling that GMs just wait for the 15 minutes on draft day to get the call, sitting there only with the Value table as their friend. That is when mistakes are made. Knowing who is interested in moving up and what they would offer, before Thursday, is a very good exercise. It doesn't mean that he will trade, but at least he knows the market value of the #5 pick and can factor that in to his decision-making process.

There aren't any GMs that don't go into the draft without having an idea of what other teams are looking at in the drfat.

None of them go into and make these decisions simply in the time frame allowed for picks.

boogblaster
04-18-2010, 12:19 PM
They should be trying to trade up and get the NT ...

Mr. Laz
04-18-2010, 12:20 PM
They should be trying to trade up and get the NT ...
trade up where?

Dave Lane
04-18-2010, 12:20 PM
Trading down a playmaker for a safe but relatively effective player is a horrible decision. That's essentially what they're doing here.

If they're trading down, they need to either get two first day picks or they need to take a guy with playmaker potential, like potentially a 3-4 OLB.

It's not like last year, when it was pretty much Sanchez or second-rate first round prospects. This year, Berry is very likely going to be on our board and there isn't a single person who would disagree that this kid is going to be a playmaker.

I think it's better than 50/50 but there is no guaranteed player ever.

the Talking Can
04-18-2010, 12:26 PM
Berry is as 'safe' a pick as is possible

elite talent + great character + great work ethic + position of need = safe pick


jesus....if the guys busts you'd just have to throw up your hands...










and since we have no desire to win a superbowl, and won't pick a qb for the 25+ straight year...we might as well do the next best thing

milkman
04-18-2010, 12:27 PM
I'll say this.

If we do trade down, we better be getting a first in next year's draft, because I'll want the ammunition next year to move up to get the QB we'll want then.

DeezNutz
04-18-2010, 12:28 PM
For a GM who finds risks to be scary, you'd think Berry would be the perfect solution.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2010, 12:29 PM
I'll say this.

If we do trade down, we better be getting a first in next year's draft, because I'll want the ammunition next year to move up to get the QB we'll want then.

Yep.

Oh, who the fuck am I kidding?

Pioli's never going to take a franchise QB.*




*Praying the reverse psychology works

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2010, 12:29 PM
For a GM who finds risks to be scary, you'd think Berry would be the perfect solution.

I still can't believe he said that.

The Bad Guy
04-18-2010, 12:29 PM
For a GM who finds risks to be scary, you'd think Berry would be the perfect solution.

Amen to that.

I will guarantee if you surveyed at least 20 GMs and asked them the safest pick in this draft, they'd all say Eric Berry.

DeezNutz
04-18-2010, 12:30 PM
I still can't believe he said that.

I'm going to start calling him True Pioli.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2010, 12:31 PM
I'm going to start calling him True Pioli.

http://cdn.fd.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/snuggyGif.gif

DeezNutz
04-18-2010, 12:32 PM
Amen to that.

I will guarantee if you surveyed at least 20 GMs and asked them the safest pick in this draft, they'd all say Eric Berry.

The dude absolutely might bust. Anyone could.

But if Berry goes tits up, it would take an immanently stupid fan to bitch. Sometimes, even the best of plans fuck up.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-18-2010, 12:32 PM
I'm starting to lose my capacity to be upset by this team.

LaChapelle
04-18-2010, 12:33 PM
The top 4 are set KC is the spot to drum up some interest

~please stop with the brokeback mountain bs

Douche Baggins
04-18-2010, 12:34 PM
The real problem with this is if you do this, you absolutely have to nail 70 or 80 percent of your picks in a given draft because you aren't getting an elite playmaker, most likely.

The likelihood of that isn't great, and for a team like the Chiefs, that just leaves you with a big bag of shit. The best we can hope for is another 2008, and those kind of classes don't come along often.

Best case scenario we fill five or six starting positions, Cassel steers us to 6-10, and we have a shot at a quarterback next year.

You know, if Cassel proves to be a bust, you can legit argue that they need to tank games at the end of next season to guarantee a shot at a quarterback. Most of the time that gets scoffed at, but it would make a ton of sense in that situation.

The Bad Guy
04-18-2010, 12:34 PM
I'm starting to lose my capacity to be upset by this team.

I have a bad feeling Thursday night might be the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-18-2010, 12:35 PM
I'll make this promise right now:

If we trade down with Berry there and pass up both he and Clausen and take some fucktard like Bulaga in the middle of the first round, I will go to the home opener next year wearing an Eric Berry jersey of whatever team trades up for him.

The Bad Guy
04-18-2010, 12:36 PM
I'll make this promise right now:

If we trade down with Berry there and pass up both he and Clausen and take some ****tard like Bulaga in the middle of the first round, I will go to the home opener next year wearing an Eric Berry jersey of whatever team trades up for him.'

I commend the fact you would actually purchase tickets.

There's nothing like ushering in a New Arrowhead with the cheapest payroll in the NFL.

Ralphy Boy
04-18-2010, 12:43 PM
Mays isn't even close to Berry. Mays' ceiling is between his ears. Plus Berry has the ability to play CB, something Mays does not. If he goes to a good defensive team, Steelers or Ravens, he'll probably look much better than Berry would, if Berry went to KC.

Ed Reed is a freak, but he's a much better player for the Ravens than he would have been if he played in St. Louis or Detroit.

Mays is a special talent, I just think he could look like a bust if he goes to the wrong team.

DeezNutz
04-18-2010, 12:43 PM
'

I commend the fact you would actually purchase tickets.

There's nothing like ushering in a New Arrowhead with the cheapest payroll in the NFL.

I simply am refusing to believe this trend will continue.

Why in the fuck would we have some of the most highly paid assistant coaches and the single highest paid GM and go on the cheap for payroll?

It's like we're running a chicken salad culinary school.

mcaj22
04-18-2010, 12:44 PM
We will find out how the rest of the league views Berry if a team jumps up to get him, and it would be even funnier if the Chiefs are the one to make the trade down. Honestly, if Berry pans out and wins DROY and all sorts of Pro Bowl achievements and becomes a franchise player, there will be more threads on how this team didn't take Berry than there is of "Look at Jared Allen Now" for the next countless amount of years. Rightfully so, because on paper and film, most of us do agree Berry is a very safe pick with the right skill set to play the safety position with natural talent that clowns like Jon McGraw, Morgan and Mike Brown do not have. I think this could be as bad or worse than 2003's draft when Pittsburgh took Polamalu in our spot.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2010, 12:45 PM
I simply am refusing to believe this trend will continue.

Why in the fuck would we have some of the most highly paid assistant coaches and the single highest paid GM and go on the cheap for payroll?

It's like we're running a chicken salad culinary school.

You're having a career day, my friend.

The Bad Guy
04-18-2010, 12:45 PM
I simply am refusing to believe this trend will continue.

Why in the **** would we have some of the most highly paid assistant coaches and the single highest paid GM and go on the cheap for payroll?

It's like we're running a chicken salad culinary school.

I have no reason to believe it's going to change.

Marcellus
04-18-2010, 12:46 PM
I love this place.When I want to feel better about myself all I have to do is come here and read some of the planet geniuses flipping out over internet speculation on what might happen.

Thanks.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-18-2010, 12:47 PM
I can't wait for New England to trade up to five and give us Sam Aiken, Russ Ohrnberger, Kyle Arrington and the #24 pick.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-18-2010, 12:48 PM
I love this place.When I want to feel better about myself all I have to do is come here and read some of the planet geniuses flipping out over internet speculation on what might happen.

Thanks.

If I were you, the only thing that would make me feel better about myself is the sensation of my teeth cutting into blued steel while I pull the trigger on the 12 gauge in my hand.

The Bunk
04-18-2010, 12:50 PM
I swear, if some of you guys were in Green Bay in 1959 you would've run Vince Lombardi out of town. You can't judge guys based on one year of history.

This.

It's going to be hilarious when we actually draft Berry. I expect all of these armchair GMs to be back here kissing Pioli's ass. I'm sure that will happen.

Douche Baggins
04-18-2010, 12:50 PM
I love this place.When I want to feel better about myself all I have to do is come here and read some of the planet geniuses flipping out over internet speculation on what might happen.

Thanks.

I'd guess there was a lot of negative speculation about Cassel last year before the trade.

Can anyone dig up the Lombardi/Tyson Jackson thread?

Marcellus
04-18-2010, 12:52 PM
If I were you, the only thing that would make me feel better about myself is the sensation of my teeth cutting into blued steel while I pull the trigger on the 12 gauge in my hand.

Come on man, don't you find all this a bit ridiculous.

People are already flipping out and not a damn pick has been made yet. There have been 100 rumors in the last week.

Save the energy for the real apocolypse on Thursday.

the Talking Can
04-18-2010, 12:52 PM
I simply am refusing to believe this trend will continue.

Why in the **** would we have some of the most highly paid assistant coaches and the single highest paid GM and go on the cheap for payroll?

It's like we're running a chicken salad culinary school.

i've seen nothing to suggest that Clark will spend to the payroll


we're like 70-80 mill under it right now


only one word describes that

The Bad Guy
04-18-2010, 12:54 PM
Come on man, don't you find all this a bit ridiculous.

People are already flipping out and not a damn pick has been made yet. There have been 100 rumors in the last week.

Save the energy for the real apocolypse on Thursday.

And when that happens, there will be people like you saying how "if we were so smart, why aren't we GMs" and "give him time to see if the picks pan out."

Marcellus
04-18-2010, 12:54 PM
I'd guess there was a lot of negative speculation about Cassel last year before the trade.

Can anyone dig up the Lombardi/Tyson Jackson thread?

There has been bitching and moaning about everything under the sun here for 2 years now. Odds are it's going to come to fruition now and again.

Lono
04-18-2010, 12:55 PM
We have one of the worst run defense's in the league and you'd be pissed if we got the best ILB in the draft? I also like Weatherspoon a lot, but I certainly wouldn't be pissed if we drafted McClain.



THIS!!

McClain isn't very fast, and he played for one of the best defences in the NCAA. Can you imagine what people would be saying about Weatherspoon had he played at Alabama? McClain's shelf life isn't going to be very long in my opinion. I just think Spoon will be a 12+ year player with several pro bowls. I don't feel the same about McClain.

the Talking Can
04-18-2010, 12:55 PM
I love this place.When I want to feel better about myself all I have to do is come here and read some of the planet geniuses flipping out over internet speculation on what might happen.

Thanks.

i know right?


how weird is that people come to an internet sports message board to speculate about sports rumors regarding their favorite team?


gee whiz beav.....

mcaj22
04-18-2010, 12:57 PM
I can't wait for New England to trade up to five and give us Sam Aiken, Russ Ohrnberger, Kyle Arrington and the #24 pick.

We will be the Browns of last year at 5 when Mangina got 3 scrubs from the Jets that he loved included with the picks.

Reaper16
04-18-2010, 12:59 PM
There has been bitching and moaning about everything under the sun here for 2 years now. Odds are it's going to come to fruition now and again.
Now and again? More like "all of the time."

bowener
04-18-2010, 12:59 PM
If that's true, then what does it mean? I would think it means they're wanting to go offensive line.

I think it means that Mecca's assessment is correct, that they want Rolando McClain.

The Bunk
04-18-2010, 01:01 PM
Stay classy Dane.

DaneMcCloud
04-18-2010, 01:02 PM
Stay classy Dane.

Go fuck yourself

Douche Baggins
04-18-2010, 01:02 PM
There has been bitching and moaning about everything under the sun here for 2 years now. Odds are it's going to come to fruition now and again.

There was virtually zero bitching about the 2008 draft.

cdcox
04-18-2010, 01:03 PM
This is why you don't target Thomas (a very good player) when a player like Berry falls into your lap: a dynasty team will send 5 or more players to the HOF. Who are the potential HOFers on the current roster? Do we have a single one? You sure as hell don't put HOFers on your roster by taking very good players over elite talent.

I know the Pats are going to an exception to the rule about dynasties sending lots of players to the HOF, but 1) we aren't the Pats and 2) the Pats seemed to have lost that lightening they once had in the bottle. It is a stupid model to copy.

DaneMcCloud
04-18-2010, 01:03 PM
i know right?


how weird is that people come to an internet sports message board to speculate about sports rumors regarding their favorite team?


gee whiz beav.....

It's amazing to me that people actually take time out of their day to criticize others who are discussing the topic at hand.

What a bunch of fucking tools.

Marcellus
04-18-2010, 01:03 PM
And when that happens, there will be people like you saying how "if we were so smart, why aren't we GMs" and "give him time to see if the picks pan out."

Here is how I see it.

I want a winner, a team that builds a strong core and is competitive and a contender every year. Not just a 9-7 playoff team squeezed between 2 4-12 seasons or a 13-3 team that craps out in the playoffs and goes 7-9 the next year.

How that happens, I really don't give a fuck as long as it happens. If I see a lack of acceptable improvement next year I am going to be pissed. If the team continues to suck I will want to see Pioli and Haley gone just like I wanted Herm and Carl gone, just like I wanted Vermiel gone at the end.

I am just not going to make every rumor or draft selection I didn't like into the definitive proof we aren't going to get better. We won 2x as many games in 2009 as we did in 2008 with a "worse" coach and less talent according to some.

Sorry if I get a laugh out of the people who do make every rumor or story talking about what we may do into a negative every damn time.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2010, 01:04 PM
This is why you don't target Thomas (a very good player) when a player like Berry falls into your lap: a dynasty team will send 5 or more players to the HOF. Who are the potential HOFers on the current roster? Do we have a single one? You sure as hell don't put HOFers on your roster by taking very good players over elite talent.

I know the Pats are going to an exception to the rule about dynasties sending lots of players to the HOF, but 1) we aren't the Pats and 2) the Pats seemed to have lost that lightening they once had in the bottle. It is a stupid model to copy.

Blasphemer!

Marcellus
04-18-2010, 01:05 PM
It's amazing to me that people actually take time out of their day to criticize others who are discussing the topic at hand.

What a bunch of ****ing tools.

I am not bashing, I am laughing at the melodrama.

DaneMcCloud
04-18-2010, 01:10 PM
I am not bashing, I am laughing at the melodrama.

Bullshit.

This is a legitmate news item from a former NFL GM who's currently employed by the NFL Network. This isn't just some "internet rumor".

People are discussing the outcome of such a move or trade. If you don't want to contribute, don't.

But please stop criticizing others for their involvement.

Rain Man
04-18-2010, 01:18 PM
It's a mistake to fall in love with any one player in the draft, and that's happening a lot around here.

Reaper16
04-18-2010, 01:20 PM
It's a mistake to fall in love with any one player in the draft, and that's happening a lot around here.
Can you unpack that so it makes sense?

DeezNutz
04-18-2010, 01:23 PM
I don't see this board as necessarily hyperfocusing on a single player. Rather, I think there's been intense attachment, for good reason, to the handful of elite talents in this class.

Jerm
04-18-2010, 01:24 PM
If Eric Berry is there at #5 and we pass on him for any other player or trade...Pioli, Haley, and co. can take "The Right 53" and shove up their collective asses because there isn't a player that epitomizes that more than Berry.

Rain Man
04-18-2010, 01:26 PM
Can you unpack that so it makes sense?

I'm just hearing so much about Berry that the sentiment is now, "Every player in the draft except Berry sucks." I don't think that's true.

chiefzilla1501
04-18-2010, 01:27 PM
I have no reason to believe it's going to change.

Well, if you follow what the Patriots have done, it probably will. The Pats usually aren't heavy spenders for a few years, then they pick a year where they spend like crazy. Before they brought in Moss, Welker, and Adalius Thomas, they were pretty quiet the few offseasons prior.

I'm hoping that next year's that year when they really start to load up on marquee free agents.

But I'd rather they do most of that work in the draft, given that playmakers in the offseason are a dime a dozen.

chiefzilla1501
04-18-2010, 01:30 PM
We will be the Browns of last year at 5 when Mangina got 3 scrubs from the Jets that he loved included with the picks.

As I've said in other threads, the Browns didn't do nearly as bad as people say. One of those 3 players was Abram Elam, who played pretty well for them last year at Safety. And there's a good chance they got a good starting Center and RB out of the trade. And if David Veikune ends up being a good 3-4 OLB, you can say they did very well in the trade.

If you actually look at the value Cleveland got, it's a trade I wish the Chiefs would have made.

Rain Man
04-18-2010, 01:30 PM
I'm kind of disappointed that there's no epic wide receiver in the #5 slot, and that it seems like Clauson isn't being viewed as an epic quarterback. It'd be nice if we had an easy decision.

Though the intrigue makes the week more exciting, I must admit.

Reaper16
04-18-2010, 01:33 PM
I'm just hearing so much about Berry that the sentiment is now, "Every player in the draft except Berry sucks." I don't think that's true.
I'm sorry, Rainman, but I don't think that is happening on this board. I don't know where you're getting that from.

DeezNutz
04-18-2010, 01:35 PM
I'm kind of disappointed that there's no epic wide receiver in the #5 slot, and that it seems like Clauson isn't being viewed as an epic quarterback. It'd be nice if we had an easy decision.

Though the intrigue makes the week more exciting, I must admit.

I think we have potentially several easy decisions we could make.

philfree
04-18-2010, 01:36 PM
I'm kind of disappointed that there's no epic wide receiver in the #5 slot, and that it seems like Clauson isn't being viewed as an epic quarterback. It'd be nice if we had an easy decision.

Though the intrigue makes the week more exciting, I must admit.

I wanted an epic OLB. There may be one but according to the draft gurus there not worth the 5th pick. I'd love to see some of the draft boards of the 3-4 teams. I bet they're alot different from waht Kiper, McShay, Rang ect put up. With so many 3-4 teams(half the league?) the DE/OLB tweener type players are going to get picked earlier IMO.


PhilFree:arrow:

Pestilence
04-18-2010, 01:46 PM
FML.

:facepalm:

philfree
04-18-2010, 01:48 PM
FML.

:facepalm:

So what is it you disagree with?


PhilFree:arrow:

DeezNutz
04-18-2010, 01:50 PM
The whole thing.

I wouldn't the whole thing.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2010, 01:54 PM
I'm just hearing so much about Berry that the sentiment is now, "Every player in the draft except Berry sucks." I don't think that's true.

I don't think that's happening at all, Kevin.

However, there are expectations from having a Top 5 pick.

One would expect to acquire an elite talent or franchise QB with that pick.

There are three elite talents in this draft, and two QB's that fit that description.

Two of those 5 players would be wasted in our scheme, don't fit a need, and hold no value at our pick - especially considering we've spent our last two Top 5 picks on that position.

One of the QB's will likely be off the board.

That leaves one of the elite talents (Berry) and one of the Franchise QB's. (Clausen)

To have a Top 5 pick and come away with neither would be a mistake of epic proportions.

You just can't pass on those types of prospects for lessor talent.

Douche Baggins
04-18-2010, 01:55 PM
The worst thing about trading down is that the true fan will lap it up.

Oh man, we get more picks later on and we STILL get a first-round pick! We can have our cake and eat it, too! With this influx of talent we might be able to back into the playoffs this year!

If the Chiefs draft a bunch of Tamba Halis this year and get to 8-8, support will skyrocket.

And sadly, I probably won't be able to resist the siren call of mediocrity. It's in my blood.

Rain Man
04-18-2010, 01:55 PM
I'm sorry, Rainman, but I don't think that is happening on this board. I don't know where you're getting that from.

I think it's from the 10,000 posts stating that Berry is a first-ballot hall of famer and the 12,000 posts stating that Bulaga sucks, Williams sucks, McClain sucks, Clausen sucks, Haden doesn't suck but would be a reach, other Williams sucks, Bryant sucks, and so on.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2010, 01:57 PM
The worst thing about trading down is that the true fan will lap it up.

Oh man, we get more picks later on and we STILL get a first-round pick! We can have our cake and eat it, too! With this influx of talent we might be able to back into the playoffs this year!

If the Chiefs draft a bunch of Tamba Halis this year and get to 8-8, support will skyrocket.

And sadly, I probably won't be able to resist the siren call of mediocrity. It's in my blood.

Christ, imagine if we trade down and take a RT and NT.

True Fan will act like we've won the Super Bowl.

Douche Baggins
04-18-2010, 02:00 PM
I honestly shudder to think what the offseason will be like if we win 7 games.

We'll be right back where we were 10 years ago - going into every offseason thinking we're only a player or two away.

Rain Man
04-18-2010, 02:01 PM
I don't think that's happening at all, Kevin.

However, there are expectations from having a Top 5 pick.

One would expect to acquire an elite talent or franchise QB with that pick.

There are three elite talents in this draft, and two QB's that fit that description.

Two of those 5 players would be wasted in our scheme, don't fit a need, and hold no value at our pick - especially considering we've spent our last two Top 5 picks on that position.

One of the QB's will likely be off the board.

That leaves one of the elite talents (Berry) and one of the Franchise QB's. (Clausen)

To have a Top 5 pick and come away with neither would be a mistake of epic proportions.

You just can't pass on those types of prospects for lessor talent.


Don't get me wrong. I want Clausen first and if not him, I guess Berry.

My worry, though, is that if Berry comes in and doesn't capture bin Laden by Week 4, people will be on him like they've been on Dorsey. Expectations are way too high right now, in my opinion. And if they draft Clausen, some people will pounce on him every mistake he makes because we didn't draft Berry. And if god forbid they don't draft one of those two guys, he will never get a chance, kind of like Jackson has been treated. It's becoming a no-win situation for anyone that we draft, which is not good.

I may disagree with who we draft, but I will certainly have no ill will against them and will want them to succeed. If we draft Dez Bryant, I'll wince, but I'll root for Dez Bryant to do well. Same with Earl Thomas or Bulaga or Dan Williams or McClain or anybody.

Pioli's not going to do everything exactly the way we would. That may not necessarily mean it's wrong or that he won't be successful.

And I'm not preaching at you, OTW58. I'm preaching at the world.

Reaper16
04-18-2010, 02:03 PM
I think it's from the 10,000 posts stating that Berry is a first-ballot hall of famer and the 12,000 posts stating the Bulaga sucks, Williams sucks, McClain sucks, Clausen sucks, Haden doesn't suck but would be a reach, other Williams sucks, Bryant sucks, and so on.
Well, at #5, the options are limited unless you want to A.) reach or B.) take a player that we don't need. Many of those guys don't suck, they just don't deserve to be drafted in the top 5. Thankfully, there are options at #5 that are perfect for the Chiefs. Options so perfect that it isn't worth trading down to acquire more players of lesser caliber.

Mr. Laz
04-18-2010, 02:06 PM
Let me interject here to all the seppuku applicants ... nothing has actually happened yet. This is all prediction and guesswork.

the Chiefs may not be trying to trade down and even if we do maybe the Chiefs are just trying to trade down because they know that Clausen is falling. :shrug:

who the hell knows

no need to get too mad about Mock-like predictions

Rain Man
04-18-2010, 02:06 PM
Well, at #5, the options are limited unless you want to A.) reach or B.) take a player that we don't need. Many of those guys don't suck, they just don't deserve to be drafted in the top 5. Thankfully, there are options at #5 that are perfect for the Chiefs. Options so perfect that it isn't worth trading down to acquire more players of lesser caliber.

It's the interesting thing about picking high. You naturally get bracketed into an extremely small pool of players. Not that that's always a bad thing, or that it's a bad thing in 2010 for the Chiefs, but it seems like it happens, whereas in the #10 spot you have a wider array as the talent distribution starts spreading.

I'm absolutely not advocating trading down, though. If you can take an elite player, you take the elite player.

Mecca
04-18-2010, 02:08 PM
Why am I not surprised, truth be told I doubt teams will be willing to give up that much to move this year, when a class has depth no one wants to part with their 2nd round pick.

DeezNutz
04-18-2010, 02:11 PM
And I'm not preaching at you, OTW58. I'm preaching at the world.

Oh, so this post was directed at me? Well, I heard you.

And you're wrong.

Rain Man
04-18-2010, 02:13 PM
Oh, so this post was directed at me? Well, I heard you.

And you're wrong.


At least 40 percent of it was directed at China and India.

Tribal Warfare
04-18-2010, 02:16 PM
Tis the time of misinformation, also Lombardi reported that KC signed Cassel to a 30 million dollar guaranteed contract on draft day when he didn't sign shit yet.

Rain Man
04-18-2010, 02:21 PM
I realize that this is crazy talk, but I have to say, the more I read about C.J. Spiller, the more intrigued I become. Would we draft a guy who could line up with Charles for a "lightning and even more lightning" backfield, and then also solve our kick return problems?


(Ducking and running for cover.)

Mr. Laz
04-18-2010, 02:22 PM
At least 40 percent of it was directed at China and India.
you know they couldn't understand what you said though

Pushead2
04-18-2010, 02:27 PM
I want the draft to come and then it'll be months of bitching of who we didn't take. Yessssssssssssssssss........ :spock:

beer bacon
04-18-2010, 02:27 PM
It would be nice if people could wait to lose their shit until after we screw up our draft.

What sort of a pick in the first half round would we need to get to Graham?

beer bacon
04-18-2010, 02:29 PM
Why am I not surprised, truth be told I doubt teams will be willing to give up that much to move this year, when a class has depth no one wants to part with their 2nd round pick.

The only way we could get a decent trade is if some team is terribly desperate for whoever is left at #5. Otherwise everyone is going to be looking to add more 2nd and 3rd rounders in this draft just like we are.

Reaper16
04-18-2010, 02:31 PM
I realize that this is crazy talk, but I have to say, the more I read about C.J. Spiller, the more intrigued I become. Would we draft a guy who could line up with Charles for a "lightning and even more lightning" backfield, and then also solve our kick return problems?


(Ducking and running for cover.)
He's worth the pick. Dude is pretty legit. There are worse options at #5.

Rain Man
04-18-2010, 02:33 PM
He's worth the pick. Dude is pretty legit. There are worse options at #5.


Recognizing that I know nothing about college football, I would almost view him as the safest pick in the draft for whomever picks him up. It's hard to imagine him not being a significant contributor.

beer bacon
04-18-2010, 02:33 PM
I'm just hearing so much about Berry that the sentiment is now, "Every player in the draft except Berry sucks." I don't think that's true.

Berry is very special player that has been recognized as such since he came out of high school. He was the #3 player overall and the #1 corner back coming out of high school, and he was fantastic all three years at Tennessee. He just seems like a can't miss player.

DeezNutz
04-18-2010, 03:00 PM
I realize that this is crazy talk, but I have to say, the more I read about C.J. Spiller, the more intrigued I become. Would we draft a guy who could line up with Charles for a "lightning and even more lightning" backfield, and then also solve our kick return problems?


(Ducking and running for cover.)

He is a special, dynamic player.

No way we'd want him.

Rain Man
04-18-2010, 03:03 PM
He is a special, dynamic player.

No way we'd want him.


Oh, yeah. I forgot.


On a completely different topic, the Denver Post today mentioned a 290-lb. wide receiver for Army. I'd kind of like to see that.

Mr. Laz
04-18-2010, 03:04 PM
It would be nice if people could wait to lose their shit until after we screw up our draft.

What sort of a pick in the first half round would we need to get to Graham?exactly

i expect Graham to go in the 15-25 area but there have been concerns about his short arms and height.

-King-
04-18-2010, 03:06 PM
He is a special, dynamic player.

No way we'd want him.

How good are Spiller's hands? Because if shit were to happen, and we drafted him, it would be kind of nice to have Spiller at slot if Charles is in at RB. Because if he just sorely played RB, it wouldn't be really good value.

kysirsoze
04-18-2010, 03:08 PM
I disagree, i think it means we are eying Mcclain or Earl Thomas

This. And if they trade down for Thomas they better pray he is a star and/or Berry isn't.

Rain Man
04-18-2010, 03:14 PM
Oh, yeah. I forgot.


On a completely different topic, the Denver Post today mentioned a 290-lb. wide receiver for Army. I'd kind of like to see that.

Here we go. I wonder how it worked out.

http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2009/09/02/for-6-foot-10-ali-villanueva-switch-to-wide-receiver-is-a-tall/

For 6-Foot-10 Ali Villanueva, Switch to Wide Receiver Is a Tall Order0
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9/02/2009 9:00 PM ET By Jim Henry

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Jim Henry
Senior College Sports Writer


Since his younger brother had the stronger throwing arm, Ali Villanueva spent hours running pass patterns in his backyard as a child. Villanueva wanted to be a receiver, score touchdowns and hear the roar of the crowd.

Villanueva had the hands - but not the body.

Villanueva was always tall and big for his age. So tall and big, in fact, that he naturally gravitated towards basketball. Villanueva, the son of military parents, actually didn't play competitive football for the first time until he attended the American high school in Belgium. When he strolled through the gates of West Point in 2006 as a 6-foot-10, 310-pound plebe, Villanueva started the football season at -- take a guess -- defensive end before being switched to offensive line a year later.

Well, brace yourself.

Last spring, first-year Army coach Rich Ellerson shattered the mold, believing he might have an edge no other Football Bowl Subdivision team can counter - a 6-foot-10 wide receiver. Villanueva, who started 12 games at left tackle last season and was heralded as the nation's tallest offensive lineman, will make his debut as the nation's tallest receiver Saturday at Eastern Michigan.

It's a long way from Villanueva's backyard, not to mention a three-point stance.

"If it would have been my choice, I would have stayed at tackle, but I understand the team needs me at receiver now, so I am trying to do my best to be dangerous out on the field," Villanueva told FanHouse.

"There are a lot of thoughts and a lot of emotions I am going through. I am trying to visualize what is going to happen but I can't because I never played the position before. It's different but I feel like I am making a smooth transition. I am excited, really excited. I can't wait to make some catches and get comfortable at the position."

Army has a new coach, new looks on offense and defense, and a lot of new faces who figure to log significant time on the field. But no decision has been more surprising than Ellerson's to move an offensive lineman to receiver. Talk about reaching new heights -- even if the Black Knights throw the ball only a few times per game in its new triple-option offense.


"We moved him from offensive line and we really think he's going to be a challenge on the perimeter," said Ellerson, who went 56-34 in seven seasons at Cal Poly. "He's an outstanding athlete who was a great basketball player. He doesn't run great but he's always open. He really compliments what we do with the triple-option, much like Ramses Barden did for us at Cal-Poly last year."

While it's unrealistic to think Villanueva will come anywhere close to matching Barden's production last season -- a team-high 67 catches for 1,257 yards and 18 touchdowns -- the switcheroo is definitely intriguing. Former Army coach Stan Brock once said Villanueva had the potential to be an All-American lineman. The new coaching staff originally moved Villanueva to right guard last spring.
"The coaches are so knowledgeable about the offense and they know so much about football," Villanueva said.

"If they thought it was a good decision to move me out there, I trust them. Obviously, they evaluated me and it wasn't just, 'We are going to put you at wide receiver because you are the tallest guy out there.' So they thought I had a chance and that's what I am doing, trying to do my best to help my team."

This is Villanueva's fifth position since he arrived at West Point. Villanueva was recruited as a tight end out of SHAPE American High in Belgium. He was converted to a defensive end early in his Army career and switched to offensive tackle during his sophomore season. And, for the record, Villanueva points out that he's not the tallest person at West Point - he says that honor goes to an incoming basketball player.

Let's be honest. Gimmicks aside, can someone as tall and heavy as Villanueva -- he has dropped more than 20 pounds and is currently 287 -- catch on?

"Why not?" Army offensive coordinator Ian Shields told the Middletown, N.Y. Times Herald-Record during spring drills.

"It's a little bit of a journey and discovery. But what if he can? We can get a lot of guys in our system to go out and play tackle. But how cool would it be if there was a 6-10 wide receiver out there, who can be a green-zone target? And think about the blocking possibilities. He can really put the hurting on some DBs and linebackers. It could be fun."

Villanueva hopes so. In fact, the athletic Villanueva has been unstoppable in practice on short passes and around the goal line. He caught two touchdown passes in the spring game. He'll also be used like a tight end and a third tackle for the running game.

Villanueva's senior leadership will certainly be embraced. On Tuesday, Ellerson announced that Trent Steelman will be the first Army freshman quarterback to start a season opener in the modern era. The last freshman to win a game he started for Army was Bryan Williams on Oct. 31, 1987.

"I feel really comfortable with Trent. He is a great quarterback," Villanueva said. "At the same time, I feel comfortable with (backups) Carson (Williams) and Chip (Bowden). I don't care who is calling the plays. We have three really good options at quarterback and that depth is a great advantage.

"I think I've been doing well in practice, but I am going to wait until we start playing games before I start looking at what I've accomplished. The position change hasn't been a big deal. With the new staff, there have been so many position changes. Even though mine has been the most obvious one, I would say 50 percent of our players have changed positions since last season."

Villanueva, whose given name is Alejandro Villanueva Martin, was born in Mississippi (he lived there for most of his first five years), but has also lived in Spain and Belgium. He speaks four languages - English, Spanish, French and Portuguese. His first sport was swimming, but he left the pool for rugby at age 15. Villanueva also played basketball before deciding to concentrate solely on football in high school.

Villanueva loves the Army, too. He spent most of this summer with the 117th Copperheads, 75th Brigade in Fort Sill, Okla., shadowing a second lieutenant's every move. While Villanueva's height might limit him if he concentrated on aviation or armor - "I heard somewhere it's not how long your legs are; it's how long your torso is," he said -- he has career goals to command a company.

"I take a lot of pride in what I do and I enjoy the structure and discipline involved in being a soldier," said Villanueva, who is yes-sir, no-sir polite and is majoring in systems engineering. "You know what's expected of you and you know it's going to be done. I like what I am doing. It's a passion, I guess."

Villanueva is passionate about football -- and wide receiver, even if he's almost as tall as Celtics center Kevin Garnett. In fact, Villanueva is two inches taller than Eagles great Harold Carmichael, the NFL's tallest receiver ever.

"We've all been learning a lot of new things under this coaching staff, but it has been outstanding," Villanueva said. "Honestly, we have so many strengths and I can't even begin to tell you how good this team is. We are anxious to show everybody how good we can be. I am not going to lie - it's going to be a challenge to stop us."

Villanueva hopes it's just like his younger days, when he was unstoppable in his backyard, too.

DeezNutz
04-18-2010, 03:19 PM
How good are Spiller's hands? Because if shit were to happen, and we drafted him, it would be kind of nice to have Spiller at slot if Charles is in at RB. Because if he just sorely played RB, it wouldn't be really good value.

He's Percy Harvin.

Dude is a tremendous offensive weapon.

-King-
04-18-2010, 03:20 PM
Here we go. I wonder how it worked out.

http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2009/09/02/for-6-foot-10-ali-villanueva-switch-to-wide-receiver-is-a-tall/

For 6-Foot-10 Ali Villanueva, Switch to Wide Receiver Is a Tall Order

God I'm starting to hate puns.

-King-
04-18-2010, 03:20 PM
He's Percy Harvin.

Dude is a tremendous offensive weapon.

That's how I was thinking of him.

DaneMcCloud
04-18-2010, 03:27 PM
He's Percy Harvin.

Dude is a tremendous offensive weapon.

Without an awesome offensive line, that wouldn't matter.

BigRedChief
04-18-2010, 03:46 PM
Not sure if it has been posted.....

Chiefs Are 'Badly' Trying To Trade Down To Middle Of First*Round

by Joel Thorman on Apr 18, 2010 10:34 AM CDT in 2010 Campaign

Last year about this time, Michael Lombardi of the National Football Post first reported that the Chiefs were "in love" with LSU DE Tyson Jackson. A few days later and Jackson was the Chiefs pick in the draft.

Now Lombardi reports that the Chiefs are trying like hell to move down in the draft.

"The Chiefs are trying, and I mean really trying, to move down," Lombardi reports. "My sources tell me they'll be willing to go down as far as 15 for the right deal because they feel they can find a player in that range."

It's a fine line between trading down and trading down too far. According to Lombardi, our theory of the Eagles offering up the 24th and 37th picks for the Chiefs fifth pick doesn't look like it's happening. By staying around 15, they can still have a shot at a game changer -- Alabama LB Rolando McClain and Texas S Earl Thomas come to mind here -- as well as picking up extra selections.

That said, who's the Chiefs trading partner? SB Nation's Mocking The Draft takes an excellent look at this situation and comes to the conclusion that San Francisco might be the only team in that area that has a chance of moving up.

Lombardi reports the Chiefs are hoping someone wants to get in line to pick Notre Dame QB Jimmy Clausen.The rumors I've heard have mentioned the Texans and the 49ers as possible trade down pardners.

Tribal Warfare
04-18-2010, 03:50 PM
The rumors I've heard have mentioned the Texans and the 49ers as possible trade down pardners.

Okay if this is true, we are fucked especially if they don't believe in Croyle. :banghead:

Chocolate Hog
04-18-2010, 03:58 PM
lawlz clark hunt is so cheap.

dirk digler
04-18-2010, 04:21 PM
The rumors I've heard have mentioned the Texans and the 49ers as possible trade down pardners.

Man I hope this doesn't happen because I want Berry but if they did trade down they could probably get 4 starters in the first 2 rounds.

BCD
04-18-2010, 04:25 PM
I want Berry or Clausen. I wouldnt cry if they traded down to get Thomas. I just want this shit to be done with so I can stop obsessing over it...

Tribal Warfare
04-18-2010, 04:27 PM
I want Berry or Clausen. I wouldnt cry if they traded down to get Thomas. I just want this shit to be done with so I can stop obsessing over it...

Are you also doing the under the breath mumbling about who KC should get in each round at work too?

DaneMcCloud
04-18-2010, 04:29 PM
Man I hope this doesn't happen because I want Berry but if they did trade down they could probably get 4 starters in the first 2 rounds.


I would hope they would get high quality starters, not just guys that start.

Mr. Laz
04-18-2010, 04:29 PM
lawlz clark hunt is so cheap.I don't think Hunt has anything to do with this.

IF .... this happens it will be all Pioli

dirk digler
04-18-2010, 04:32 PM
I would hope they would get high quality starters, not just guys that start.

I figured that was a given. :)

Mr. Laz
04-18-2010, 04:32 PM
I would hope they would get high quality starters, not just guys that start.
some people think that this year the 1st round talent extends almost 50-60 picks.

Chocolate Hog
04-18-2010, 04:33 PM
I don't think Hunt has anything to do with this.

IF .... this happens it will be all Pioli

Depends. I've actually done some thinking about this and I think Earl Thomas will be a really good safety so will Chad Jones. They won't be as good as Berry though. I'd have to see what the Chiefs get for the fifth pick before I can get pissed off.

DaneMcCloud
04-18-2010, 04:36 PM
some people think that this year the 1st round talent extends almost 50-60 picks.

Oh, and I agree.

But I guess that's where decision making and evaluation come into play.

IF the Chiefs were to trade back, I'd be thrilled to see them choose Witherspoon, Bryant, Spiller or Thomas. It wouldn't be Berry or Clausen, but any two of those guys would certainly make the Chiefs a more dangerous team immediately.

I'd hate to see them trade back to grab Baluga, Williams, Dan Williams or McClain. That would suck.

dirk digler
04-18-2010, 04:36 PM
If you go by the draft chart the 49ers would have to switch 1's and give up their 2nd and probably a late round choice (5th or after)

BossChief
04-18-2010, 04:38 PM
ya know, in a draft that has 50 or so players with a first round grade (about twice the usual amount) trading down isnt as bad as some are making it out to be.

Texans hold #20, which is worth 850 draft value points.

We hold #5 that holds 1700.

They would likely have to give up their second rounder (#51) and their first next year to trade up to 5.

That would give us something like

#20
#36
#50
#51

this year that is essentially having FOUR first round draft picks ...and an additional first next year.

Flame me all you want, but that is a scenario I would pull the trigger for.

I wouldn't even be interested in something like this last year because the talent pool wasn't even close to as good as this year.

This will likely end up as one of the deepest drafts in NFL history once its all said and done and I wouldn't scoff at that many selections. Tough part of that is that we will be basically out of the talk of getting one of the top qbs next year (or in the next draft in all likelyhood) with that much of a talent infusion to the roster and the weak record next year.

1) Clausen
2) Berry
3) trade down for full value
4) Graham
5) McClain

BCD
04-18-2010, 04:39 PM
Are you also doing the under the breath mumbling about who KC should get in each round at work too?:D

BCD
04-18-2010, 04:41 PM
I'd hate to see them trade back to grab Baluga, Williams, Dan Williams or McClain. That would suck.A Whale? :D

dirk digler
04-18-2010, 04:42 PM
ya know, in a draft that has 50 or so players with a first round grade (about twice the usual amount) trading down isnt as bad as some are making it out to be.

Texans hold #20, which is worth 850 draft value points.

We hold #5 that holds 1700.

They would likely have to give up their second rounder (#51) and their first next year to trade up to 5.

That would give us something like

#20
#36
#50
#51

this year that is essentially having FOUR first round draft picks ...and an additional first next year.

Flame me all you want, but that is a scenario I would pull the trigger for.

I wouldn't even be interested in something like this last year because the talent pool wasn't even close to as good as this year.

This will likely end up as one of the deepest drafts in NFL history once its all said and done and I wouldn't scoff at that many selections. Tough part of that is that we will be basically out of the talk of getting one of the top qbs next year (or in the next draft in all likelyhood) with that much of a talent infusion to the roster and the weak record next year.

1) Clausen
2) Berry
3) trade down for full value
4) Graham
5) McClain

It definitely makes sense why they would pull the trigger considering this team has alot of holes to fill.

mlyonsd
04-18-2010, 04:48 PM
This place is going to be must see tv Thursday night.

philfree
04-18-2010, 04:50 PM
This place is going to be must see tv Thursday night.

The drafturbators should all get together and web cam their party/mass suicide./jk


PhilFree:arrow:

notorious
04-18-2010, 04:51 PM
This place is going to be must see tv Thursday night.

Careful, it will be like looking into the Sun.

Tribal Warfare
04-18-2010, 04:53 PM
This place is going to be must see tv Thursday night.

I'll need my migraine meds in full supply depending on the results.

KCChiefsMan
04-18-2010, 05:15 PM
only and ONLY if Eric Berry is off the board. He's going to be an elite player and we better take him if he's there.

Hog Farmer
04-18-2010, 05:16 PM
I just heard we're trading down to target Colt McCoy late in the first in exchange for an extra 2nd, 4th and 5th

chiefsfan93
04-18-2010, 05:16 PM
I'm not gonna bitch about what they do in the draft. I just want the end result to make for a season of wins. If Thomas J. becomes a fucking stud and J.Charles rips it up and Cassel looks good because of some OT we drafted then hell yea!

If the D line kicks ass and the corners look like savey vets because of a DT we draft then hell yea lets do it. So what I'm saying is show me in the season. Im done critiquing the choices made in the draft. I was all pumped when we got dorsey, flowers and albert but whoopty fucking doo what a season.

SHOW ME THIS SEASON! that this team doesnt need 2-3 years not to suck ass. But I do seem to think that with the moves and rumors of this team that it will take a extended amount of time to become a solid contender! Like a fucking 5 year plan is what I see.:mad:

Frankie
04-18-2010, 05:19 PM
I am high on S Earl Thomas,.....

You name your backyard plants?!

penchief
04-18-2010, 05:20 PM
Don't get me wrong. I want Clausen first and if not him, I guess Berry.

My worry, though, is that if Berry comes in and doesn't capture bin Laden by Week 4, people will be on him like they've been on Dorsey. Expectations are way too high right now, in my opinion. And if they draft Clausen, some people will pounce on him every mistake he makes because we didn't draft Berry. And if god forbid they don't draft one of those two guys, he will never get a chance, kind of like Jackson has been treated. It's becoming a no-win situation for anyone that we draft, which is not good.

I may disagree with who we draft, but I will certainly have no ill will against them and will want them to succeed. If we draft Dez Bryant, I'll wince, but I'll root for Dez Bryant to do well. Same with Earl Thomas or Bulaga or Dan Williams or McClain or anybody.

Pioli's not going to do everything exactly the way we would. That may not necessarily mean it's wrong or that he won't be successful.

And I'm not preaching at you, OTW58. I'm preaching at the world.

Well said. I live and die with the chiefs every year. But it seems like a lot of people fancy themselves as expert talent evaluators and become personally invested in their opinions about certain players. So much so that it makes it difficult to carry on an objective conversation.

I have opinions but I still believe in giving something the the benefit of the doubt until proven one way or the other.

Mr. Laz
04-18-2010, 05:20 PM
I just heard we're trading down to target Colt McCoy late in the first in exchange for an extra 2nd, 4th and 5thDid one of your hogs tell you this while you were giving him his happy ending?

milkman
04-18-2010, 05:22 PM
I'm not gonna bitch about what they do in the draft. I just want the end result to make for a season of wins. If Thomas J. becomes a ****ing stud and J.Charles rips it up and Cassel looks good because of some OT we drafted then hell yea!

If the D line kicks ass and the corners look like savey vets because of a DT we draft then hell yea lets do it. So what I'm saying is show me in the season. Im done critiquing the choices made in the draft. I was all pumped when we got dorsey, flowers and albert but whoopty ****ing doo what a season.

SHOW ME THIS SEASON! that this team doesnt need 2-3 years not to suck ass. But I do seem to think that with the moves and rumors of this team that it will take a extended amount of time to become a solid contender! Like a ****ing 5 year plan is what I see.:mad:

If you expected to see immediate results from the '08 draft, expecting to see wins immediately, then you're a fucking idiot.

That was not going to be the case.

If Hunt had hired a new GM who stayed the course from that draft, and that GM, in turn, hired a HC with a clue, then this team would be well on it's way to becomong winners and true contenders.

Hog Farmer
04-18-2010, 05:23 PM
Did one of your hogs tell you this while you were giving him his happy ending?

No. But it came from a reliable source.

Frankie
04-18-2010, 05:27 PM
This is pretty much where I stand, too. Trade-downs in my opinion are almost always a bad move.

Every year presents different good scenarios for a team. If we are one or two superstars away from a SB caliber team then I say stay pat. But if we need a bunch of talented players, you jump on any opportunity for a good trade down that gives you more draft choices. This way you do not bring an expensive superstar into a team that cannot help him. The guy will cost a lot and probably is used up faster than if he has a a good solid team around him. By the time the team is any good, he is no longer viable.

Frankie
04-18-2010, 05:30 PM
What would a team have to give up to move up? I am thinking a swap of 1st round picks and 2 extra picks at least.

Depends on the other team's position in the first round. You are talking about a long range.

chiefsfan93
04-18-2010, 05:31 PM
Hey muffman if you would read my post, I just want to see it in the season and dont give a flip about the draft. So if you just assume a idea of what I was saying instead of reading then your just a complaining bitch,how original!;)

Frankie
04-18-2010, 05:33 PM
09 Draft, Tyson Jackson ? I think we'll be happy in the foreseeable future with him.

I really hope so. I remember Neil Smith had bust written all over him in his first pro year.

TheGuardian
04-18-2010, 05:36 PM
I can't believe people still think Clausen is even an option in the front office. Cassel is going to be THE GUY. FOR A WHILE. I'm not a Cassel fan, but I live in reality. You guys should at least be talking about guys that are actually a realistic option. Clausen is NOT. Move on.

Frankie
04-18-2010, 05:38 PM
I don't know what this means for certain, but it would seem to indicate absolutely zero interest in Jimmy Clausen.

Sad.

Not sad IMO. But your first point also is lacking. There are a lot of draft "experts" who project Clausen to go around the 13th or 14th pick. Maybe the Chiefs believe that too.

Rausch
04-18-2010, 05:38 PM
:)

DeezNutz
04-18-2010, 05:39 PM
I can't believe people still think Clausen is even an option in the front office. Cassel is going to be THE GUY. FOR A WHILE. I'm not a Cassel fan, but I live in reality. You guys should at least be talking about guys that are actually a realistic option. Clausen is NOT. Move on.

The reality, however, is that if Cassel shits the bed this year, he won't be the QB in 2011.

Frankie
04-18-2010, 05:39 PM
We should have traded down last year.

Very true. But there were no takers.

KCrockaholic
04-18-2010, 05:42 PM
No. But it came from a reliable source.

You better be ****ing lying!

DaneMcCloud
04-18-2010, 05:44 PM
I really hope so. I remember Neil Smith had bust written all over him in his first pro year.

No, he did not.

He was suffering from a very painful urinary tract infection his first season that the doctors could just not kill. He only played in 13 games and finished with 2.5 sacks.

Why do you people continue suggest that Tyson Jackson = Neil Smith and Matt Cassel = Trent Green?

They're completely different people with completely different skill sets.

milkman
04-18-2010, 05:44 PM
Hey muffman if you would read my post, I just want to see it in the season and dont give a flip about the draft. So if you just assume a idea of what I was saying instead of reading then your just a complaining bitch,how original!;)

I didn't assume a fucking thing you fucking idiot.

This is what you said.

. Im done critiquing the choices made in the draft. I was all pumped when we got dorsey, flowers and albert but whoopty ****ing doo what a season.

You got excited about the draft.

Dumbass.

Sure-Oz
04-18-2010, 05:50 PM
Havent read the thread but i hope we dont trade down esp if berry is there. i can see them trading down and grabbing mcclain

TheGuardian
04-18-2010, 05:51 PM
The reality, however, is that if Cassel shits the bed this year, he won't be the QB in 2011.

The reality in your head or the reality in the Chiefs front office? LAst I checked you don't work there.

I think Cassel has a longer rope than you and others here think.

Hog Farmer
04-18-2010, 05:52 PM
You better be ****ing lying!


:shake:

Ralphy Boy
04-18-2010, 05:53 PM
I just heard we're trading down to target Colt McCoy late in the first in exchange for an extra 2nd, 4th and 5th

:BS:

Whoever told you that is full of shit. There is no freaking way we would trade down to take McCoy. If we wanted to draft a QB early, we'd draft Clausen. I can't see us taking one before round 4.

milkman
04-18-2010, 05:55 PM
The reality in your head or the reality in the Chiefs front office? LAst I checked you don't work there.

I think Cassel has a longer rope than you and others here think.

So you think that if Cassel has another crappy season, with a contract that allows them to get out after the season, that they are still going to give him another season, when that contract calls for a big roster bonus at the start of the next fiscal year?

TheGuardian
04-18-2010, 05:57 PM
So you think that if Cassel has another crappy season, with a contract that allows them to get out after the season, that they are still going to give him another season, when that contract calls for a big roster bonus at the start of the next fiscal year?

Don't know what they are going to do. However generally GM's don't like to admit mistakes. Pioli drafted him and then traded for him and put big money in his pockets. If you think he's going to just get two seasons on a franchise that is in rebuilding mode I got some ocean front property to sell you.

Hog Farmer
04-18-2010, 05:59 PM
:BS:

Whoever told you that is full of shit. There is no freaking way we would trade down to take McCoy. If we wanted to draft a QB early, we'd draft Clausen. I can't see us taking one before round 4.

Nope. Haley and Weis really want McCoy and then have Terrance Cody in their sites with 2A.

Coogs
04-18-2010, 06:05 PM
According to Lombardi, our theory of the Eagles offering up the 24th and 37th picks for the Chiefs fifth pick doesn't look like it's happening.

I would hope to hell not. Better be alot more on the plate than that for a move down that far.

San Francisco's #13 and #49 would come close. Nobody else in the mid-teens to early teens really has anything to trade that would make it come close.

NE and Philly are the only teams in the 20's that could really make the jump, but I would like to think we would want multiple picks out of those teams. Way more than 24 and 37.

Otherwise you have to look to Cleveland or Buffalo... and if nothing happens there.... stay put at 5.

milkman
04-18-2010, 06:08 PM
Don't know what they are going to do. However generally GM's don't like to admit mistakes. Pioli drafted him and then traded for him and put big money in his pockets. If you think he's going to just get two seasons on a franchise that is in rebuilding mode I got some ocean front property to sell you.

So you're saying he'll be more than happy to throw more millions at a mistake rather than admit the mistake and move on.

God, I hope he isn't as stupid as your dumbass.

BossChief
04-18-2010, 06:12 PM
If anyone thinks that if Cassel doesn't play much much much better next year that we wont make moves to move on without him, they are fooling themselves.

Ya know what sucks for Haley?

His job is dependent on him turning straw into gold with Cassel.

The Bad Guy
04-18-2010, 06:15 PM
If anyone thinks that if Cassel doesn't play much much much better next year that we wont make moves to move on without him, they are fooling themselves.

Ya know what sucks for Haley?

His job is dependent on him turning straw into gold with Cassel.

I think Charlie Weis has to turn him. That's his challenge now.

If he turns Matt Cassel into a bonafide QB, this would be his greatest accomplishment. He hasn't worked with a less talented QB in his entire coaching career.

TheGuardian
04-18-2010, 06:17 PM
So you're saying he'll be more than happy to throw more millions at a mistake rather than admit the mistake and move on.

God, I hope he isn't as stupid as your dumbass.

You need some ensure? Maybe you need to learn how to read you dumb fuck.

I never said that's what I hoped he did, that's what I believe he will do.

Fucking read and comprehend what you just read before you go off calling someone a dumbass.

chiefsfan93
04-18-2010, 06:19 PM
Chiefs draft berry or clausen end of debate the rest is bullshit.

BossChief
04-18-2010, 06:21 PM
I think Charlie Weis has to turn him. That's his challenge now.

If he turns Matt Cassel into a bonafide QB, this would be his greatest accomplishment. He hasn't worked with a less talented QB in his entire coaching career.

And if Charlie isnt able to work magic with Cassel, the team wont win and Haley will lose his job. Not after next year mind you, but after this year we would need to go with a younger quarterback and that would give us a learning curve that wouldnt equate to more wins.

I think that if you boil it down, Haleys job security depends on CW turning straw into gold.

chiefzilla1501
04-18-2010, 06:22 PM
If anyone thinks that if Cassel doesn't play much much much better next year that we wont make moves to move on without him, they are fooling themselves.

Ya know what sucks for Haley?

His job is dependent on him turning straw into gold with Cassel.

I'm guessing the Chiefs bring in some kind of an option to compete. I'm just afraid it's Tebow or Lefevour. Or even a later round project like Tony Pike.

milkman
04-18-2010, 06:22 PM
You need some ensure? Maybe you need to learn how to read you dumb ****.

I never said that's what I hoped he did, that's what I believe he will do.

****ing read and comprehend what you just read before you go off calling someone a dumbass.

I never said that's what you hoped he did.

I called you stupid and a dumbass because you believe that's what he'll do.

Who is it that is comprehension challenged again?

BossChief
04-18-2010, 06:23 PM
Chiefs draft berry or clausen end of debate the rest is bullshit.

sweet, you can stop posting then...