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Coogs
04-20-2010, 07:11 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/2010/04/19/1888615/chiefs-have-to-decide-if-no-5.html

Chiefs have to decide if No. 5 pick is too high for a safety
By KENT BABB
The Kansas City Star

They sold themselves as versatile and able, and if a team wanted a safety to be anything other than a safety, they said they’d be willing, too.

Eric Berry said he’d play cornerback. Taylor Mays said he’d be fine at linebacker. Earl Thomas said he’d be happy anywhere in an NFL defense. Whatever it takes. That’s what they said at the NFL’s scouting combine in late February.

“I’ll play whatever,” said Mays, a standout defensive back from Southern California. “If I’m on the field, it doesn’t really matter. I want to win. I want to contribute. I like football regardless.”

But sometimes, a safety needs to just be a safety. That’s what several NFL teams will be looking for when the three-day draft begins Thursday. The Chiefs are among those teams, and they’ll have a vast array of options.

The Chiefs could do the popular thing and select Berry with the No. 5 overall pick. Some scouts say Berry is the best safety prospect since Sean Taylor of Miami in 2004.

Berry, a former Tennessee star, possesses skills that have been compared with those of perennial Pro Bowlers Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu.

Then again, the Chiefs might pass on Berry — passing, in fact, on the big dollars they’d owe to someone playing a position that just isn’t valued the same way, the top-five money way, as a quarterback or left tackle or defensive end.

Not that Berry is the type to limit himself.

“I bring a lot to the table,” he said at the combine. “I can do pretty much anything the coaches ask me to.”

The Chiefs, of course, are at the center of a conundrum. They could draft Berry and, if he’s as good as advertised, be set at an important position that is becoming more important with each season. Offenses are becoming increasingly reliant on pass plays, and the game has evolved in such a way that safety might soon be seen as a premium defensive position — easily worth the money a player would command as the No. 5 pick.

“We’ve seen the evolution of the safety position to be one of the most important positions on the field,” ESPN analyst Ron Jaworski said. “It is a specific talent that you have to have. You have to be a (high-) quality cover guy; you have to be able to play in the box; you have to be able to blitz. It’s a position that now demands versatility.

“I think the safety position is now paramount in the NFL.”

Then again, the Chiefs could pass on Berry and target a safety in later rounds. This year’s draft is stacked that way: plenty of safeties, a desperate need for the Chiefs — one of the few weaknesses that general manager Scott Pioli didn’t address during free-agency — and a draft pool heavy on skilled players that will allow teams to draft early-round talent at midround prices.

What to do? The phenom or the value? Conventional thinking or a look toward a progressive future? It’s a tough one. And soon, the Chiefs will be on the clock.

“You hear this all the time: ‘You can’t take a safety that high,’ ” said Chris Landry, a former NFL scout who’s now a personnel consultant for 11 pro teams. “But some people get caught up in these sayings, and they don’t know why that’s the case. Eric Berry can line up in a number of schemes. … Would I consider taking him at 5? Yeah, I would.”

There’s an off chance, though, that Mays could fall to the early second round. It’s unlikely, but teams might be hung up on the fact that Mays’ ability to hit hard isn’t matched by coverage ability. The Chiefs might gamble that Mays will be there when they draft for the first time in the second round, the No. 36 overall pick. If Mays is gone, there will be others. Yes, this year’s draft is stacked that way.

“It’s harder and harder to find the well-rounded safety,” ESPN analyst and former NFL coach Jon Gruden said. “But I’ve seen a couple in this year’s draft that certainly fit my bill.”

The Chiefs could have their eyes on South Florida’s Nate Allen, Georgia Tech’s Morgan Burnett, Georgia’s Reshad Jones or Kansas’ Darrell Stuckey. All will be later-round choices; all could be terrific values for a team that likes a good bargain and could address needs at linebacker, wide receiver and nose tackle before plucking that mid- to late-round safety.

“It’s a good group,” Landry said. “There is incredible depth defensively in this draft, more so than normal.”

So the players aren’t the only ones with a bulging menu of options. Yes, the Chiefs have a tough decision ahead. Who could blame Berry for trying to sway a team into deciding on him?

“At the end of the day,” he said, “it’s on the GMs and the guys that make the decisions. I really do feel that I’m supposed to be up there with those guys.

“If you want a complete defensive back, a complete player as far as special teams — I played on kick return, kickoff, punt, punt return, all of those things. I definitely played free safety, strong safety, nickel corner, left and right corner. The list goes on. … So many things you could keep saying. I really want to sell myself.”

Bane
04-20-2010, 07:18 AM
He looks like a hell of a player to me.Goddamn I can't wait for thursday to get here.



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Mr_Tomahawk
04-20-2010, 07:22 AM
jebus! Just get Thursday over with...

Mr. Laz
04-20-2010, 09:23 AM
If the chiefs would actually pass on Berry because they think Mays will be there in the 2nd then they deserve to lose. They should have serious doubts about whether to take Mays in the 2nd AT ALL.

Pestilence
04-20-2010, 09:28 AM
If we pass on Berry because of the money then fuck this team and it's ownership.

It doesn't matter who you take at #5......we're going to be paying them a shitload. Is McClain worth $25 million guaranteed? No.

Berry has been compared to Ed Reed. He can lock the safety position down for the next 10 years. Take Berry and be fucking happy with it.

DeezNutz
04-20-2010, 09:28 AM
Mays in the second would be grand theft, but I realize minds are made up at this point.

Clausen or Berry in the first, barring a treasure of picks for 2010 and '11.

Ebolapox
04-20-2010, 09:36 AM
eh, don't pass on berry just to get mays: get BOTH.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 09:36 AM
If the chiefs would actually pass on Berry because they think Mays will be there in the 2nd then they deserve to lose. They should have serious doubts about whether to take Mays in the 2nd AT ALL.

Those are the only two safeties in the draft. The draft is pretty deep at safety.

Mr. Laz
04-20-2010, 09:38 AM
Those are the only two safeties in the draft. The draft is pretty deep at safety.
umm ... i don't get how your post relates to mine.

my point is that there should be NO relationship between Berry and Mays in the Chiefs thought process. They are too completely different type players.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 09:39 AM
Mays in the second would be grand theft, but I realize minds are made up at this point.

Clausen or Berry in the first, barring a treasure of picks for 2010 and '11.

Why Clausen? Seriously. Why grab a guy that has Ryan Leaf written all over him. Why not give Cassel another year? It's not like there won't be a premier QB next year. Last year, one of the arguments for Sanchez was that there won't be a premier QB prospect this year. Low and behold, what happens, the QB that will be available, is suddenly a 'premier QB prospect'. It is this type of rationalization that is hard to take seriously.

Pestilence
04-20-2010, 09:40 AM
Why Clausen? Seriously. Why grab a guy that has Ryan Leaf written all over him. Why not give Cassel another year? It's not like there won't be a premier QB next year. Last year, one of the arguments for Sanchez was that there won't be a premier QB prospect this year. Low and behold, what happens, the QB that will be available, is suddenly a 'premier QB prospect'. It is this type of rationalization that is hard to take seriously.

Just like the rationalization of "there will be a QB next year!". We don't know shit about next year. Last year everyone thought Snead was going to be a top 10 pick....now look at him.

And Clausen is not the next Ryan Leaf. Not. Gonna. Happen.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 09:41 AM
umm ... i don't get how your post relates to mine.

my point is that there should be NO relationship between Berry and Mays in the Chiefs thought process. They are too completely different type players.

Sorry, my point was that they may choose to pass on Berry, be willing to take Mays, AND still be comfortable with another safety that isn't of the two. In other words, I don't think they are going to pass on Berry just based on the possibility of Mays being there.

Although, I will say, if at the end of this draft, they haven't addressed the safety issue... I will be beside myself.

petegz28
04-20-2010, 09:44 AM
The last good safety we had was Mark Collins. Ironically that was the last time we had a decent defense as well.

Brock
04-20-2010, 09:47 AM
Why Clausen? Seriously. Why grab a guy that has Ryan Leaf written all over him. Why not give Cassel another year? It's not like there won't be a premier QB next year. Last year, one of the arguments for Sanchez was that there won't be a premier QB prospect this year. Low and behold, what happens, the QB that will be available, is suddenly a 'premier QB prospect'. It is this type of rationalization that is hard to take seriously.

He doesn't have Ryan Leaf written all over him.

Every year it's the same garbage, "wait and draft a QB next year".

boogblaster
04-20-2010, 09:50 AM
Take the safety .. then OL and DL .....

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 09:50 AM
Just like the rationalization of "there will be a QB next year!". We don't know shit about next year. Last year everyone thought Snead was going to be a top 10 pick....now look at him.

And Clausen is not the next Ryan Leaf. Not. Gonna. Happen.

Of course not. Because that is who the Chiefs can draft this year. Just like, whoever the QB is next year that they have a chance at, will be a 'premier qb prospect'... and every year until they get a 'franchise qb'. All you are doing is rationalizing. Last year, I actually brought up Clausen as a potential franchise QB. This idea was laughed at by many. And, yet, fast forward to this year and he is a potential franchise QB.

Now, here is the funny thing.... he actually had a down year, and by most accounts, underachieved. So, I feel like he didn't make the necessary step up to be a potential franchise QB. Yet, the same guys laughing last year at the possibility, now have him as a great prospect. Based on what? Hope, and rationalization.

Pestilence
04-20-2010, 09:51 AM
Clausen had a down year? really?

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 10:01 AM
He doesn't have Ryan Leaf written all over him.

Every year it's the same garbage, "wait and draft a QB next year".

First, I didn't say wait and draft a QB next year. I say give Cassel another year. Yeah, I know that isn't popular.... but it is the smartest move, especially when the best QB you can draft is Clausen. Don't worry, there will be someone for you to rationalize as a great prospect next year.

petegz28
04-20-2010, 10:02 AM
First, I didn't say wait and draft a QB next year. I say give Cassel another year. Yeah, I know that isn't popular.... but it is the smartest move, especially when the best QB you can draft is Clausen. Don't worry, there will be someone for you to rationalize as a great prospect next year.

Even if we draft Clausen, Cassel is the starter this year.

Pestilence
04-20-2010, 10:02 AM
First, I didn't say wait and draft a QB next year. I say give Cassel another year. Yeah, I know that isn't popular.... but it is the smartest move, especially when the best QB you can draft is Clausen. Don't worry, there will be someone for you to rationalize as a great prospect next year.

Therein lies the problem. Every year there will be a QB that people want us to draft. And every year 75% of the fanbase will come up with some stupid bullshit reason to not draft him. The excuse will be to wait until next year. Then next year will roll around and they will come up with an excuse to not draft him.

This fan base is fucking stuck in mediocrity and they don't want to leave.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 10:03 AM
Clausen had a down year? really?

You don't think so? I know his numbers were good, but based on the w/l record of the team.... I just think that he struggled to lead his team to victories. And, isn't that what you all expect out of a franchise QB? A guys who can elevate his teamates? There was none of that in college.

Brock
04-20-2010, 10:04 AM
First, I didn't say wait and draft a QB next year. I say give Cassel another year. Yeah, I know that isn't popular.... but it is the smartest move, especially when the best QB you can draft is Clausen. Don't worry, there will be someone for you to rationalize as a great prospect next year.

We can just get rid of Cassel after this season. And next year it will be the same crap from you and your ilk: "This prospect isn't good enough, wait til next year, there will be somebody better".

Pestilence
04-20-2010, 10:06 AM
You don't think so? I know his numbers were good, but based on the w/l record of the team.... I just think that he struggled to lead his team to victories. And, isn't that what you all expect out of a franchise QB? A guys who can elevate his teamates? There was none of that in college.

FML. Some people around here are fucking retarded.

He had a down year because he didn't win all of his games. Nevermind that he brought his team back and won the game in the 4th quarter in some of those games. Nevermind the guy didn't have a fucking running game to help him out. Nevermind that ND's defense was fucking worse than the Chiefs.

Brock
04-20-2010, 10:09 AM
"Matt Ryan is a loser" /True Fans circa 2008

Sure-Oz
04-20-2010, 10:10 AM
They just better not pass on Berry unless they get to trade down and get some solid picks back.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 10:11 AM
Therein lies the problem. Every year there will be a QB that people want us to draft. And every year 75% of the fanbase will come up with some stupid bullshit reason to not draft him. The excuse will be to wait until next year. Then next year will roll around and they will come up with an excuse to not draft him.

This fan base is ****ing stuck in mediocrity and they don't want to leave.

The converse is that every year, a certain group of fans will convince themselves that whoever is there is worthy of the pick.

See, what you don't know is that I wanted Matt Ryan two years ago. And, for the record, I think the Chiefs were going to draft him if he fell to them. I was sad that Ryan got nabbed. I was happy when the Chiefs got Dorsey though.

By the way, next year's draft will have Locker, Luck and Mallet. They all bear watching as potential studs.

Last year, people said this would be a down year for QB. And, you know what? It is. But, now that we are here, we have to rationalize the players available to us. I think that Locker, Luck and Mallet all have a chance at being much higher rated QB's that Clausen when they come out next year.

Brock
04-20-2010, 10:12 AM
See, what you don't know is that I wanted Matt Ryan two years ago.

Link.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 10:13 AM
FML. Some people around here are ****ing retarded.

He had a down year because he didn't win all of his games. Nevermind that he brought his team back and won the game in the 4th quarter in some of those games. Nevermind the guy didn't have a ****ing running game to help him out. Nevermind that ND's defense was ****ing worse than the Chiefs.

On the college level, a good QB should raise your team, especially with the competition that ND gets away with playing.

ChiefsCountry
04-20-2010, 10:14 AM
Fuck Matt Cassel.
Posted via Mobile Device

Brock
04-20-2010, 10:15 AM
But but Clausen had a couple of 5th round draft picks on his offensive line, he shoulda done better.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 10:15 AM
"Matt Ryan is a loser" /True Fans circa 2008

BS! because Matt Ryan elevated his team and won more than he lost in his Senior year. The ONLY argument against him was his interceptions which were expected because he had to carry his team and take chances.

As usual though, the facts don't fit, so you don't worry about them.

oldandslow
04-20-2010, 10:15 AM
Honestly, imo, Berry and Clausen are the only two picks at five. If both are gone, then you consider trading down. If one or both are there, the pick is made for you.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 10:19 AM
Link.

I wasn't on here then. So, you can think what you want. But, Matt Ryan had much better numbers than Clausen, is prototypical size and carried his college team. So, there is a big difference between him and Clausen in my mind.

I just think that it is funny that last year at this time, to many of you, Clausen was not worthy of being a franchise QB. This year, suddenly.... totally worth it....despite losing so many games and not elevating his team.... which is the whole argument for a franchise QB.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 10:19 AM
Honestly, imo, Berry and Clausen are the only two picks at five. If both are gone, then you consider trading down. If one or both are there, the pick is made for you.

I can't imagine both being gone.

Brock
04-20-2010, 10:20 AM
I wasn't on here then. So, you can think what you want. But, Matt Ryan had much better numbers than Clausen, is prototypical size and carried his college team. So, there is a big difference between him and Clausen in my mind.

I just think that it is funny that last year at this time, to many of you, Clausen was not worthy of being a franchise QB. This year, suddenly.... totally worth it....despite losing so many games and not elevating his team.... which is the whole argument for a franchise QB.

You weren't anywhere on the internet posting draft thoughts about the Chiefs in 2008? I doubt that, especially after the lies you've been spreading about Clausen.

OnTheWarpath58
04-20-2010, 10:21 AM
BS! because Matt Ryan elevated his team and won more than he lost in his Senior year. The ONLY argument against him was his interceptions which were expected because he had to carry his team and take chances.

As usual though, the facts don't fit, so you don't worry about them.

Clausen had to carry his team, and take chances because they had to score 30+ a game to win. That defense was Chiefs-like.

Explain why he only had 4 INT's.

KCrockaholic
04-20-2010, 10:22 AM
I still don't understand when people call Berry "a safety". He is not just a safety. The guy practically played LB last year for Tennessee. He can also play CB. So he's not just "a safety". He's the most versatile player in this draft!

Cave Johnson
04-20-2010, 10:26 AM
And Clausen is not the next Ryan Leaf. Not. Gonna. Happen.

Not the next Leaf. More like the next Rick Clausen....

Pestilence
04-20-2010, 10:27 AM
Not the next Leaf. More like the next Rick Clausen....

Ummm....no. The other Clausen's WISH they had the talent that Jimmy does.

I'm starting to believe that most of the hatred for Clausen is because he played at Notre Dame. If he played at Mizzou or Kansas.....you guys would be all over his fucking nuts.

OnTheWarpath58
04-20-2010, 10:27 AM
Ummm....no. The other Clausen's WISH they had the talent that Jimmy does.

I'm starting to believe that most of the hatred for Clausen is because he played at Notre Dame. If he played at Mizzou or Kansas.....you guys would be all over his fucking nuts.

This.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 10:36 AM
Clausen had to carry his team, and take chances because they had to score 30+ a game to win. That defense was Chiefs-like.

Explain why he only had 4 INT's.

He did have incredible numbers. Same as Brady Quinn only threw 5 interceptions in his final season..... Of course, he had two in a bowl game, but Clausen couldn't get his team to a bowl game last year.

Did he take chances last year? Did he even care that they were losing to teams like Navy, and Connecticut? OR, did he have his eye on the draft from mid season, when it looked like Weis was going to be gone?

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 10:37 AM
You weren't anywhere on the internet posting draft thoughts about the Chiefs in 2008? I doubt that, especially after the lies you've been spreading about Clausen.

What lies?

Brock
04-20-2010, 10:41 AM
What lies?

When you said you had seen several press conferences where Clausen blamed his teammates for losses.

Do you have that link for your 2008 draft thoughts on Matt Ryan?

OnTheWarpath58
04-20-2010, 10:43 AM
When you said you had seen several press conferences where Clausen blamed his teammates for losses.

Do you have that link for your 2008 draft thoughts on Matt Ryan?

IIRC, Brock, it was Saccopoo that made up the Clausen PC story.

Not that SCF isn't just as big a fucktard...

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 10:44 AM
Ummm....no. The other Clausen's WISH they had the talent that Jimmy does.

I'm starting to believe that most of the hatred for Clausen is because he played at Notre Dame. If he played at Mizzou or Kansas.....you guys would be all over his ****ing nuts.

There is no doubt that if he had played for Mizzou or Kansas, he would be a huge fan favorite to be drafted.

Frankly, I wish he had played in the SEC. Had he put those numbers up in the SEC, then maybe you look at him a little harder even if he didn't win many games. But, against the competition that he got to play for three years, he was 15-21 not including his bowl game win.

Really, is that what a franchise QB does? IN COLLEGE?

Brock
04-20-2010, 10:44 AM
IIRC, Brock, it was Saccopoo that made up the Clausen PC story.

Not that SCF isn't just as big a fucktard...

Wow. Yeah. Sorry SCF. (unless you're a dupe)

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 10:46 AM
When you said you had seen several press conferences where Clausen blamed his teammates for losses.

Do you have that link for your 2008 draft thoughts on Matt Ryan?

First, I don't think I EVER said that he blamed his teamates. In fact, until the last two days, I have tried to stay away from this discussion for the most part. But, it is funny that suddenly after a wonderful 6-6 year... he is totally, totally worthy of being a franchise QB. So, I chimed in.

I don't have a link, so think what you want. Again, I wasn't on here. I wasn't on any board that is still around.

Brock
04-20-2010, 10:46 AM
First, I don't think I EVER said that he blamed his teamates..

My bad.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 10:51 AM
Wow. Yeah. Sorry SCF. (unless you're a dupe)

#1) Not a dupe. (not that I wouldn't consider making one, but why would this message board be THAT important to ANYONE?)

#2) No problem. There are certain guys on both sides of the argument. I know that what the other guys who don't like Clausen and post will be lumped in with me. In many cases, that sucks.... but it is what it is.

#3) I do the same thing from this side. I lump you, Mecca, and other in the same group. I don't lump Dane in with you guys because I think he is ignorant and only parrots what you, mecca and others think.

Anyways, I really don't have a link to any message board that is around.

DaneMcCloud
04-20-2010, 11:01 AM
Why Clausen? Seriously. Why grab a guy that has Ryan Leaf written all over him. Why not give Cassel another year? It's not like there won't be a premier QB next year. Last year, one of the arguments for Sanchez was that there won't be a premier QB prospect this year. Low and behold, what happens, the QB that will be available, is suddenly a 'premier QB prospect'. It is this type of rationalization that is hard to take seriously.

You have "Dumbshit" written all over you

HemiEd
04-20-2010, 11:03 AM
Ummm....no. The other Clausen's WISH they had the talent that Jimmy does.

I'm starting to believe that most of the hatred for Clausen is because he played at Notre Dame. If he played at Mizzou or Kansas.....you guys would be all over his ****ing nuts.
I fucking detest ND, makes me want to spit just thinking about them. But I am all for drafting Clausen and a couple other of their players.
Make it happen Scott!

vailpass
04-20-2010, 11:03 AM
I still don't understand when people call Berry "a safety". He is not just a safety. The guy practically played LB last year for Tennessee. He can also play CB. So he's not just "a safety". He's the most versatile player in this draft!

I'd say I'd play any position too for #5 overall $. LB in college isn't LB in NFL. I'm very curious to see where the first safety in the draft is selected.

Saccopoo
04-20-2010, 11:03 AM
Ummm....no. The other Clausen's WISH they had the talent that Jimmy does.

I'm starting to believe that most of the hatred for Clausen is because he played at Notre Dame. If he played at Mizzou or Kansas.....you guys would be all over his ****ing nuts.

Not true. Don't take the typical ND fan response of us against the world.

And I don't hate James. I just don't feel he's that franchise level of quarterback that so many around here desperately want. So much so that they are putting that tag on just about anyone who is suggested to be such; e.g. Mark Sanchez, Jimmy Clausen, etc. (And it's not really just about them - it's more about the system versus the player. USC under Carroll, ND under Weis - both were so called "pro style" sets, even though the ND system was a very pass oriented system that elevated the QB stats as much or more than even the most pass happy spread systems.)

I don't see Jimmy Clausen as anything above and beyond guys like Zac Robinson or Max Hall. And I like both of them in certain areas better than I do Clausen.

I think he's a product of the system that has some flaws in his throwing technique and physical makeup that won't translate well to the pros.

Is he a good quarterback? Yes. Is he a "franchise" level QB? I don't think so. But that has nothing to do with him playing at Notre Dame.

vailpass
04-20-2010, 11:05 AM
You have "Dumbshit" written all over you

That made me laugh.

Otter
04-20-2010, 11:09 AM
Ummm....no. The other Clausen's WISH they had the talent that Jimmy does.

I'm starting to believe that most of the hatred for Clausen is because he played at Notre Dame. If he played at Mizzou or Kansas.....you guys would be all over his ****ing nuts.

The hatred is because he looks like Beaker from the muppets.

http://images.vimeo.com/98/48/42/98484258/98484258_300.jpg

Mr. Laz
04-20-2010, 11:10 AM
We can just get rid of Cassel after this season. And next year it will be the same crap from you and your ilk: "This prospect isn't good enough, wait til next year, there will be somebody better".
tbh the exact opposite is true as well

next year the QB obsessed will find a QB that the team MUST,MUST get or it will be the end of the world.

fyi - last year i didn't want Sanchez and got labeled "true fan" for it and this year i want Clausen.


so am i "true fan" or not?

DeezNutz
04-20-2010, 11:14 AM
Why Clausen? Seriously. Why grab a guy that has Ryan Leaf written all over him. Why not give Cassel another year? It's not like there won't be a premier QB next year. Last year, one of the arguments for Sanchez was that there won't be a premier QB prospect this year. Low and behold, what happens, the QB that will be available, is suddenly a 'premier QB prospect'. It is this type of rationalization that is hard to take seriously.

Clausen has all of the tools to be a franchise QB, including the most important tool on top of his shoulders.

Beyond these, though, the single most compelling reason is Weis. Simply a perfect situation for the player to come in, watch, learn, and then take over.

Reaper16
04-20-2010, 11:15 AM
SCF is living in an entirely different reality than the rest of us. Jesus.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 11:18 AM
tbh the exact opposite is true as well

next year the QB obsessed with find a QB that the team MUST,MUST get or it will be the end of the world.

fyi - last year i didn't want Sanchez and got labeled "true fan" for it and this year i want Clausen.


so am i "true fan" or not?

Man, I hate to say this because I didn't want Sanchez, but I think he was a better prospect than Clausen. At least Sanchez cares about the game. I just don't get that feeling about Clausen. In fact, the lack of interceptions is a bit concerning. At some point, you would think he would want to put the game on his back and take chances and try to win. But, it seems that he was worried about his stats more than the wins.

Now, when he gets to the NFL, he doesn't have to continue to worry about being drafted. BUT..... does he worry about incentives, or making probowls, or any number of other 'selfish' things?

Just giving my opinion of the kid. None of this is scientific....

Good for not being a true fan. I wish I would have been here in 2008.... then I woudln't be one either because I liked Ryan.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 11:20 AM
Clausen has all of the tools to be a franchise QB, including the most important tool on top of his shoulders.

Beyond these, though, the single most compelling reason is Weis. Simply a perfect situation for the player to come in, watch, learn, and then take over.

Wow.... many 'pundits' question his head and heart above everything else.

Mr. Laz
04-20-2010, 11:22 AM
I just don't get that feeling about Clausen. In fact, the lack of interceptions is a bit concerning. At some point, you would think he would want to put the game on his back and take chances and try to win. But, it seems that he was worried about his stats more than the wins.
Then you haven't watched Clausen's games this year because he did basically have the game on his back.

I have watched almost every snap of every game of the 2009 season now with the specific intent of watching Clausen. He was the focal point of the offense ... he just didn't throw interceptions.

He threw for almost 4000 yards in a college season. Most pros have 16 games to do it and Clausen did it in 12. Don't forget to check out his TD/INT ratio and the QB rating.

<table class="tablehead" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="stathead" align="center" bgcolor="#313a98"><td align="left">Stats Overview</td> <td colspan="10">Passing</td></tr> <tr class="colhead" align="right"> <td align="left">YEAR</td><td> CMP</td> <td>ATT</td> <td>YDS</td> <td>CMP%</td> <td>YPA</td> <td>LNG</td> <td>TD</td> <td>INT</td> <td>SACK</td> <td>RAT</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" align="right"> <td align="left">2007</td> <td>138</td> <td>245</td> <td>1254</td> <td>56.3</td> <td>5.12</td> <td>44</td> <td>7</td> <td>6</td> <td>35</td> <td>103.85</td> </tr><tr class="evenrow" align="right"> <td align="left">2008</td> <td>268</td> <td>440</td> <td>3172</td> <td>60.9</td> <td>7.21</td> <td>69</td> <td>25</td> <td>17</td> <td>21</td> <td>132.49</td> </tr><tr class="oddrow" align="right"> <td align="left">2009</td> <td>289</td> <td>425</td> <td>3722</td> <td>68.0</td> <td>8.76</td> <td>88</td> <td>28</td> <td>4</td> <td>24</td> <td>161.43</td></tr></tbody></table>

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 11:24 AM
SCF is living in an entirely different reality than the rest of us. Jesus.

The biggest argument anyone ever gives about having a 'franchise qb' is that it raises the play of the team around them. And yet, Clausen couldn't do it in college.

To be honest, I liked Jay Cutler a lot. And, he had a losing record in college, but at least he played in the SEC. At least he went against top level competition nearly every week. Clausen hasn't.

OnTheWarpath58
04-20-2010, 11:25 AM
The biggest argument anyone ever gives about having a 'franchise qb' is that it raises the play of the team around them. And yet, Clausen couldn't do it in college.

How is he supposed to raise the play of the defense?

You seriously have to be trolling us, no one is this fucking ignorant.

DeezNutz
04-20-2010, 11:28 AM
Wow.... many 'pundits' question his head and heart above everything else.

Heart? No.

He's been called a douche, essentially.

But, as I've been saying for the last couple of weeks, I'm going to need some type of evidence for why these accusations should hold water. Something beyond the story of him showing up at ND his freshman year in a limo.

Yes, I agree that's not the best choice, but it seems that he's matured from that. And if I were to be judged solely on some of my less desirable actions when I was 18, I wouldn't look too good, either.

Mr. Laz
04-20-2010, 11:29 AM
400+ passing attempts
68% completion percentage
8+ yards average
28 TD's / 4 ints
24 sacks (and even many more pressures)
161% QB rating for the year

The ND offense ran through Jimmy Clausen all year ....... period.

Sure-Oz
04-20-2010, 11:31 AM
Heart? No.

He's been called a douche, essentially.

But, as I've been saying for the last couple of weeks, I'm going to need some type of evidence for why these accusations should hold water. Something beyond the story of him showing up at ND his freshman year in a limo.

Yes, I agree that's not the best choice, but it seems that he's matured from that. And if I were to be judged solely on some of my less desirable actions when I was 18, I wouldn't look too good, either.

810 said he has the bitter beer face too

Pestilence
04-20-2010, 11:50 AM
He did have incredible numbers. Same as Brady Quinn only threw 5 interceptions in his final season..... Of course, he had two in a bowl game, but Clausen couldn't get his team to a bowl game last year.

Did he take chances last year? Did he even care that they were losing to teams like Navy, and Connecticut? OR, did he have his eye on the draft from mid season, when it looked like Weis was going to be gone?

Clausen couldn't get him team to a bowl game? Notre Dame was given the offer to play in the bowl game and the team turned it down. Know your facts you dipshit.

Sure-Oz
04-20-2010, 12:09 PM
Clausens team had no defense

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 12:30 PM
Clausen couldn't get him team to a bowl game? Notre Dame was given the offer to play in the bowl game and the team turned it down. Know your facts you dipshit.

I knew that. They chose not to because they were a 6-6 team and got a crap bowl. Sorry, I should have said he couldn't get them to a bowl worthy of going to. is that better?

Pestilence
04-20-2010, 12:46 PM
I knew that. They chose not to because they were a 6-6 team and got a crap bowl. Sorry, I should have said he couldn't get them to a bowl worthy of going to. is that better?

John Elway never played in a Bowl game.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 12:53 PM
John Elway never played in a Bowl game.

A completely different era. You do understand that when Elway played, there were 15 bowl games. There are currently 34.

Do you see the difference?

Pestilence
04-20-2010, 12:56 PM
A completely different era. You do understand that when Elway played, there were 15 bowl games. There are currently 34.

Do you see the difference?

Dude.....you're Saccopoo without an avatar.

Joe Montana made it to bowl games.

Chocolate Hog
04-20-2010, 01:41 PM
lol swiperboy

Garcia Bronco
04-20-2010, 02:02 PM
pick 5 is way too high. You'll never get the value.

Pestilence
04-20-2010, 02:18 PM
John Elway never played in a Bowl game.

A completely different era. You do understand that when Elway played, there were 15 bowl games. There are currently 34.

Do you see the difference?

Dude.....you're Saccopoo without an avatar.

Joe Montana made it to bowl games.

Yeah.....still waiting.

And I'll still be waiting 2 days from now because you have no response to that. Or maybe you're just too busy posting as Saccopoo right now.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 02:44 PM
Yeah.....still waiting.

And I'll still be waiting 2 days from now because you have no response to that. Or maybe you're just too busy posting as Saccopoo right now.

Again, there were fewer bowl games then. It was harder to get to one. Now, 68 teams go to bowl games, roughly half.

You really didn't make a point, you understand that right?

The fact that Joe Montana went to bowl games means what exactly? I am sure many HOF QB's went to bowl games. I bet it is pretty much the norm, and not the exception. Especially as time has gone on and there are more and more bowl games.

About half of the college teams go to the bowls.

Also, do you think that teams, especially, college teams were as QB driven in 1983? You do realize that the rules have changed allowing for more success passing the football, and coaches have went away from the old college offenses.

Times of changed.

But, again, I really don't see your point about Joe Montana having gone to bowl games.

Pestilence
04-20-2010, 02:46 PM
Again, there were fewer bowl games then. It was harder to get to one. Now, 68 teams go to bowl games, roughly half.

You really didn't make a point, you understand that right?

The fact that Joe Montana went to bowl games means what exactly? I am sure many HOF QB's went to bowl games. I bet it is pretty much the norm, and not the exception. Especially as time has gone on and there are more and more bowl games.

About half of the college teams go to the bowls.

Also, do you think that teams, especially, college teams were as QB driven in 1983? You do realize that the rules have changed allowing for more success passing the football, and coaches have went away from the old college offenses.

Times of changed.

But, again, I really don't see your point about Joe Montana having gone to bowl games.

Then what was your point with the comment about how Clausen didn't even take his team to a good bowl game?

SenselessChiefsFan
04-20-2010, 02:59 PM
Then what was your point with the comment about how Clausen didn't even take his team to a good bowl game?

Okay, from the top: The big argument for a franchise qb is that he elevates the play of the team. Clausen never had a better than 6-6 season in college. And, it's not like he played in the SEC, he played at ND against some mediocre competition.

College isn't the NFL. A great QB can carry a college team even more so than in the NFL.

So, not getting a team to even a winning record is a pretty damning statement in my estimation.

It will be fun to see how it all pans out though.

Chiefnj2
04-20-2010, 03:04 PM
400+ passing attempts
68% completion percentage
8+ yards average
28 TD's / 4 ints
24 sacks (and even many more pressures)
161% QB rating for the year

The ND offense ran through Jimmy Clausen all year ....... period.

From highlights, it seems like it ran through Golden Tate.

Mecca
04-20-2010, 03:04 PM
It's Jimmy Clausen's fault his team couldn't stop anyone.

Don't these same people relentlessly defend Trent Green for this same shit?

Pestilence
04-20-2010, 03:08 PM
Okay, from the top: The big argument for a franchise qb is that he elevates the play of the team. Clausen never had a better than 6-6 season in college. And, it's not like he played in the SEC, he played at ND against some mediocre competition.

College isn't the NFL. A great QB can carry a college team even more so than in the NFL.

So, not getting a team to even a winning record is a pretty damning statement in my estimation.

It will be fun to see how it all pans out though.

John Elway's best season at Stanford was 6-5.

Chiefs Pantalones
04-20-2010, 03:14 PM
I really want Berry, but if I were the Chiefs, I'd take Clausen. The QB position is more important than safety and if Cassel doesn't work out this year...well we're back to square one. You HAVE to have a good QB to even think about a Super Bowl appearance, let alone a victory. Just my opinion though.

Mecca
04-20-2010, 03:14 PM
Yea wins and losses matter so much, that's why Ken Dorsey is a great NFL QB, oh wait...

Pestilence
04-20-2010, 03:14 PM
From highlights, it seems like it ran through Golden Tate.

It was pretty equal until Michael Floyd got hurt.

DaneMcCloud
04-20-2010, 03:16 PM
John Elway's best season at Stanford was 6-5.

I've come to realize that this guy is not only the biggest asshole on the 'Planet, because he continually wastes people's time with his inane bullshit, but that there is no one, including Roy III, that knows less about college and NFL football.

DeezNutz
04-20-2010, 03:19 PM
John Elway's best season at Stanford was 6-5.

Roethlisberger was fucking ridiculous in college. Dude's performance in huge bowl games, money.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-20-2010, 03:22 PM
How the hell could anyone argue that Matt Ryan had better numbers than Jimmy Clausen. Their last years aren't comparable at all.

DeezNutz
04-20-2010, 03:23 PM
How the hell could anyone argue that Matt Ryan had better numbers than Jimmy Clausen. Their last years aren't comparable at all.

All about wins.

Short-sighted and myopic as ****, but those are the fringe benefits of Chiefs fandom.

May we interest you in a season ticket package? Another one, that is?

Mecca
04-20-2010, 03:25 PM
Why is it that all of the arguments against Clausen surround things that are not measurable?

- He isnt a leader
- He is arrogant/cocky
- He hasnt won enough

This would be like responding in a debate with "well you know, I just don't like him"

DeezNutz
04-20-2010, 03:26 PM
I don't like how he looks. /CP

Chiefs fans: more interested in fucking him than drafting him.

Reaper16
04-20-2010, 03:27 PM
Why is it that all of the arguments against Clausen surround things that are not measurable?

- He isnt a leader
- He is arrogant/cocky
- He hasnt won enough

This would be like responding in a debate with "well you know, I just don't like him"
Isn't the "he hasn't won enough" claim measurable by win-loss record, though?

the Talking Can
04-20-2010, 03:29 PM
it is breathtaking to watch chiefs fans come up with excuses to not draft a QB...


"well.....he once went to a romantic comedy....Bart Starr never watched romantic comedies!!1!!11....dude, i pwn...lolarrrrrrrrgggggghhhhh"

Pushead2
04-20-2010, 03:30 PM
someone just call Pioli and ask him what's good with the 5 pick. I'm sure he'll let us inside on what will happen in the war room. :rolleyes:

Mecca
04-20-2010, 03:30 PM
Isn't the "he hasn't won enough" claim measurable by win-loss record, though?

Don't worry someone will post the Parcells thing like winning 23 games is some magic number.

FRCDFED
04-20-2010, 03:35 PM
Yeah.....still waiting.

And I'll still be waiting 2 days from now because you have no response to that. Or maybe you're just too busy posting as Saccopoo right now.

wtf does John Elway and Joe Montana have to do with Clauson? Just say'n......damn!

DaneMcCloud
04-20-2010, 03:37 PM
Chiefs have to decide if No. 5 pick is too high for a safety


Yeah, Pioli has to decide if a once in a decade safety is too high at #5 overall, but he already decided that a 5-tech was worth a #3 overall.

Unfucking real.

:facepalm:

FRCDFED
04-20-2010, 03:39 PM
Yeah, Pioli has to decide if a once in a decade safety is too high at #5 overall, but he already decided that a 5-tech was worth a #3 overall.

Un****ing real.

:facepalm:
rep!

dirk digler
04-20-2010, 03:40 PM
Why is it that all of the arguments against Clausen surround things that are not measurable?

- He isnt a leader
- He is arrogant/cocky
- He hasnt won enough

This would be like responding in a debate with "well you know, I just don't like him"

Jay Cutler syndrome?

Pestilence
04-20-2010, 03:41 PM
wtf does John Elway and Joe Montana have to do with Clauson? Just say'n......damn!

John Elway is considered a Franchise QB.

His argument was that Clausen is considered by some to be a franchise QB....but didn't take his team to a bowl game in his senior year at ND. John Elway never took his team to a bowl game.....HIS ENTIRE COLLEGE CAREER.

Then his argument that Clausen's best season was 6-6. So therefore he can't be a franchise QB because franchise QBs put their team on their back and win games. John Elway's best season was 6-5.

Or you could have just read the fucking thread and figured that out.

DeezNutz
04-20-2010, 03:44 PM
Yeah, Pioli has to decide if a once in a decade safety is too high at #5 overall, but he already decided that a 5-tech was worth a #3 overall.

Un****ing real.

:facepalm:

I guess I'm in the minority, but I still believe that teams are built in the trenches, so I can understand Pioli's logic. /True Fan

Mr. Laz
04-20-2010, 06:55 PM
From highlights, it seems like it ran through Golden Tate.
ya, cuz tate set the all-time record for receiving with 4000 yards receiver. :shake:


maybe you might want to watch more than just highlights.

KCinNY
04-20-2010, 07:02 PM
Bob Fescoe was on the radio this morning saying that no safety was ever worth the 5th overall pick -- to which I thought Lott, Atwater, Polomalu and Reed would be worth even higher picks.

However, he lost his football credibility when, in the same segment, he suggested drafting Suh if he were there at #5 and moving Dorsey to the nose.

The Bad Guy
04-20-2010, 07:05 PM
I'd take Ed Reed and Troy at 5 every single draft.

The impact both of those players have made on their defenses is tremendous.

Billy Deveney said today, when looking at a player, you need to ignore the position. I never agree with what he says, but that was spot on. If he's a dynamic player, the position (as long as it's not on special teams) should not matter.

Berry would help this team win games. He's got extreme versitility where he can play in the box, in center field and against slot receivers.

There's not a lot of safeties in the NFL that can play the way he can.

Flowers, Carr, Berry and likely Morgan (unless someone else came along at SS) would give the Chiefs the best young secondary in the NFL.