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Deberg_1990
04-21-2010, 09:22 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-gerhartstereotype042010






PALO ALTO, Calif. – If you’ve seen Toby Gerhart carry the football, you’re well aware that the former Stanford halfback and Heisman Trophy runner-up is about as subtle as Iron Man. It’s no surprise, then, that as the NFL draft approaches, the player one AFC front-office executive described as “a bowling ball with butter knives” is hell-bent on obliterating the perception that he lacks the athleticism to succeed in the pros.

“I’m just a running back who tries to do what he can to win games and score touchdowns, but people have their opinions, and it’s kind of frustrating,” Gerhart said earlier this month between bites of pizza. “People say, ‘He’s slow,’ or ‘He’s not going to be able to break tackles at the next level.’ In college I went up against players like [USC’s] Brian Cushing(notes) and Clay Matthews(notes) – guys who ended up making the Pro Bowl [as NFL rookies] – and I ran through their tackles. It’s too bad people look at you all weird because of a stereotype.”

When NFL scouts look at Gerhart, they see a 6-foot, 231-pound power back who ran for 1,871 yards and 27 touchdowns last season, getting edged out by Alabama’s Mark Ingram in the closest Heisman vote in history. When they look at Gerhart’s numbers from the NFL scouting combine, they see that he ran a 4.50-second 40-yard dash and registered a 38-inch vertical leap, both impressive numbers for a player his size.


Yet they also see a white guy trying to make it in the league as a feature back, something that has become increasingly rare in this era. Peyton Hillis(notes), now with the Cleveland Browns, led the Denver Broncos in rushing yards in 2008, but was limited to just 54 last season in part because of 2009 draft pick Knowshon Moreno’s(notes) addition.


Race shouldn’t be an issue, of course, but Gerhart can’t help but believe that it has colored the opinions of at least some potential employers.


“One team I interviewed with asked me about being a white running back,” Gerhart says. “They asked if it made me feel entitled, or like I felt I was a poster child for white running backs. I said, ‘No, I’m just out there playing ball. I don’t think about that.’ I didn’t really know what to say.”


One longtime NFL scout insisted that Gerhart’s skin color will likely prevent the Pac-10’s offensive player of the year from being drafted in Thursday’s first round.


“He’ll be a great second-round pickup for somebody, but I guarantee you if he was the exact same guy – but he was black – he’d go in the first round for sure,” the scout said. “You could make a case that he’s a Steven Jackson-type – doesn’t have blazing speed but he’s strong and powerful and versatile.”


Gerhart isn’t used to such comparisons. He’s typically cast as the next John Riggins or Mike Alstott(notes) or, less flatteringly, as an updated version of another former Stanford star, Tommy Vardell, who had an unremarkable NFL career after being picked ninth overall in the 1992 draft.


“You hear that I’m like those guys, or like [current Cincinnati Bengals back] Brian Leonard(notes),” Gerhart says. “I see myself more like Deuce McAllister(notes) or Michael Turner(notes).”


It’s possible, of course, that Gerhart is overestimating his own abilities – if so, he certainly wouldn’t be the first player to do so publicly in the weeks leading up to the draft.


I’ve spoken with numerous NFL talent evaluators about Gerhart over the past few months, and there are plenty of skeptics who don’t seem to be locked into mindless stereotypes.


“I don’t like him,” one NFC general manager told me at the combine. “If he’s your No. 1 back, he’s going to get killed by the end of the season, because he takes too many hits. And he has no special teams value. To me, what you see is what you get. He’s pretty good at everything, but he doesn’t do anything that’s special at our level.”


Said an AFC front-office executive: “This guy runs exactly the way the hole is blocked and gets exactly what you think he’s going to get – maybe a little more because he runs so hard, but nothing more explosive than that. He runs so upright, he’s going to get lit up.”’


“There’s no reason I shouldn’t really like him, but I just don’t,” added another AFC personnel executive. “He’s not really shifty, but he gets yards. He’s fast, but it’s a long speed, and not really a quick speed. You want me to compare him to a black guy? How about T.J. Duckett(notes)? There’s a big, fast guy who hasn’t been productive in the NFL.”


Yet others believe Gerhart’s exceptional production at Stanford, a program that was struggling mightily upon his arrival, is indicative of his immense pro potential.


“I love the guy,” says former Cardinals, Rams and 49ers scout David Razzano, who is based on the West Coast and attended several of Gerhart’s games over the past two seasons. “You’ve got to see him live to appreciate him. He’s not just a plodder. He’s deceptively fast, elusive, has quick feet and has great vision at the line of scrimmage. And he’s great in the red zone.


“He’s a bell-cow back. If there’s nothing there, he’ll get four yards. He was productive in high school and in college, and guys like that don’t change – he’ll be productive in the NFL.”

Gerhart, who was flown in for pre-draft visits by the Baltimore Ravens, Philadelphia Eagles, Browns and San Diego Chargers, says he’d consider playing fullback in the pros “if that’s what it takes to get on the field.” But he bristles at the notion that it might even be a consideration. “Prior to the combine, all I heard was, ‘He’s gonna run in the 4.7s,’ ” Gerhart says. “I read this blog that said, ‘Why was Toby the only running back who had to run under 4.6 to not be classified as a fullback?’ Fifteen other guys ran in the 4.6s at the combine, and nothing was said about them [playing fullback].”


Plenty of Pac-10 defenders wish Gerhart had been typecast as a fullback during his collegiate career – or that the former Cardinal baseball star had chosen to focus on that sport. Certainly, no one at USC was devastated that Gerhart decided not to return for a fourth college season after his epic performance in Stanford’s stunning, 55-21 victory over the Trojans in Los Angeles last November, the high point of an 8-5 season that ended with a narrow Sun Bowl defeat to Oklahoma.


“That’s by far my favorite victory,” Gerhart says of the USC game. “We were up big at the end and hitting ‘em in the mouth – we ran 15 of the last 18 plays from the exact same formation, where we’d motion the tight end one way or the other and I’d run to that side. At one point one of their linebackers yelled, ‘If you guys run ‘Power’ one more time I’m walking off the field.’ It was classic.”


Oh, and here’s some background information of which NFL teams might want to take note: Pete Carroll, USC’s coach at the time, had tried to recruit Gerhart out of high school – as a fullback.


In other words, underestimate him at your own peril, and brace yourself for maximum impact.

InChiefsHell
04-21-2010, 09:58 AM
A white running back? Jeez, first the new thing is a white WR, now white guys think they can run the football? Shit. Next thing you know they'll have white guys playing cornerback...

rambleonthruthefog
04-21-2010, 09:59 AM
cracker ass cracker.

L.A. Chieffan
04-21-2010, 10:17 AM
everybody knows white guys cant play RB in the league.

Sure-Oz
04-21-2010, 10:37 AM
Mike cloud part 2! /whitey

Deberg_1990
04-21-2010, 10:48 AM
heh....honestly, I think its more of a "hes slow and he runs upright" than a race thing.

He will get selected somewhere in the lower rounds im sure.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-21-2010, 10:50 AM
Gerhart is incredibly under rated. I watched a lot of him since he played in the Pac 10. If he gets a legitimate opportunity, he's going to be a big surprise out of this draft.

TheGuardian
04-21-2010, 10:51 AM
“That’s by far my favorite victory,” Gerhart says of the USC game. “We were up big at the end and hitting ‘em in the mouth – we ran 15 of the last 18 plays from the exact same formation, where we’d motion the tight end one way or the other and I’d run to that side. At one point one of their linebackers yelled, ‘If you guys run ‘Power’ one more time I’m walking off the field.’ It was classic.

HAHAHAHAHA Where is Mecca?

Mr. Flopnuts
04-21-2010, 10:54 AM
LMAO

donkhater
04-21-2010, 10:56 AM
Gerhart is incredibly under rated. I watched a lot of him since he played in the Pac 10. If he gets a legitimate opportunity, he's going to be a big surprise out of this draft.

Yeah, he's certainly more of a back than Peyton Hillis, who had a very good stretch of games for Denver his rookie year. If he were to get with a zone blocking team, he'd be very effective.

Brock
04-21-2010, 10:57 AM
heh....honestly, I think its more of a "hes slow and he runs upright" than a race thing.

He will get selected somewhere in the lower rounds im sure.

Why should he be selected any lower than Chris Wells was?

Dicky McElephant
04-21-2010, 10:59 AM
Wow....Steven Jackson should be pissed....he just got compared to Gerhart.

-King-
04-21-2010, 11:01 AM
Wow....Steven Jackson should be pissed....he just got compared to Gerhart.

This is what I'm thinking.


Sorry Gerhart, but you're not Steven Jackson.
Posted via Mobile Device

Epic Fail 007
04-21-2010, 11:08 AM
Gerhart is incredibly under rated. I watched a lot of him since he played in the Pac 10. If he gets a legitimate opportunity, he's going to be a big surprise out of this draft.

i agree dude

POND_OF_RED
04-21-2010, 11:23 AM
"Your name is Toby."

Oh the irony...

Saccopoo
04-21-2010, 11:28 AM
Comparison between the three top "big" RB's (theoretical) in the 2010 draft and Gerhart:

Toby Gerhart: 6'0", 235 lbs.
40: 4.53
Bench: 22
Vertical: 38.0"
Broad: 9'10"
3 Cone: 6.94
20 yard Shuttle: 4.25

Ryan Mathews: 5'11", 220 lbs.
40: 4.53
Bench: 19
Vertical: 36.0"
Broad: 10'1"
20 Shuttle: 4.33

Jonathan Dwyer: 6'0", 235 lb.
40: 4.59
Bench: 15
Broad: 8'11"

The one thing to consider about Gerhart is that Stanford didn't have anything else. Teams knew Toby was going to get the ball, stacked the box every play, and he still ran it down their throats. And he does have very good open field moves. He's much more elusive than given credit for. I wouldn't have a problem with the Chiefs using their third on him.

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vailpass
04-21-2010, 11:30 AM
Comparison between the three top "big" RB's (theoretical) in the 2010 draft and Gerhart:

Toby Gerhart: 6'0", 235 lbs.
40: 4.53
Bench: 22
Vertical: 38.0"
Broad: 9'10"
3 Cone: 6.94
20 yard Shuttle: 4.25

Ryan Mathews: 5'11", 220 lbs.
40: 4.53
Bench: 19
Vertical: 36.0"
Broad: 10'1"
20 Shuttle: 4.33

Jonathan Dwyer: 6'0", 235 lb.
40: 4.59
Bench: 15
Broad: 8'11"

The one thing to consider about Gerhart is that Stanford didn't have anything else. Teams knew Toby was going to get the ball, stacked the box every play, and he still ran it down their throats. And he does have very good open field moves. He's much more elusive than given credit for. I wouldn't have a problem with the Chiefs using their third on him.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RjLh_yO41jw&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RjLh_yO41jw&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Wonderlic scores?

Count Alex's Losses
04-21-2010, 11:43 AM
His acceleration sucks. Still fun to watch.

Bane
04-21-2010, 11:51 AM
Wow....Steven Jackson should be pissed....he just got compared to Gerhart.

ROFL

soopamanluva
04-21-2010, 11:58 AM
the one thing i see an issue with from his highlits is he's slow. There were several runs that he was caught from behind that should have been TD's

Mr. Flopnuts
04-21-2010, 12:00 PM
"Your name is Toby."

Oh the irony...

Kunte Gerhart.

notorious
04-21-2010, 12:02 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-gerhartstereotype042010


“That’s by far my favorite victory,” Gerhart says of the USC game. “We were up big at the end and hitting ‘em in the mouth – we ran 15 of the last 18 plays from the exact same formation, where we’d motion the tight end one way or the other and I’d run to that side. At one point one of their linebackers yelled, ‘If you guys run ‘Power’ one more time I’m walking off the field.’ It was classic.”.



That is ****ing epic! ROFL

HemiEd
04-21-2010, 12:04 PM
Gerhart is incredibly under rated. I watched a lot of him since he played in the Pac 10. If he gets a legitimate opportunity, he's going to be a big surprise out of this draft.

I was hoping he would win the Heisman. Loved watching him against USC.

BWillie
04-21-2010, 12:10 PM
heh....honestly, I think its more of a "hes slow and he runs upright" than a race thing.

He will get selected somewhere in the lower rounds im sure.

How is he slow?? He's not slow at all, sure he doesn't have Chris Johnson breakway speed but most people don't.. As far as the running upright thing, see Larry Johnson and Adrian Peterson

boogblaster
04-21-2010, 12:16 PM
I'd sign him if he's there in the later rounds ...

Saccopoo
04-21-2010, 12:18 PM
How is he slow?? He's not slow at all. As far as the running upright thing, see Larry Johnson and Adrian Peterson

No, he's not slow. He doesn't have Charles' or Johnson's initial burst, but not many running backs do, even at the pro level. Gerhart has superb vision, finds holes quick and when he does he has very good fluidity getting through them for a guy his size. He also shows good dexterity (a number of times he breaks defenders off at the knees when he makes a move and keeps rolling).

He's a lot more promising that a guy like Larry Johnson, who never showed any patience or vision heading into the line and had zero knack for slipping into holes on the offensive line.

I think he'd be an excellent change of pace back to compliment Charles. I like Thomas Jones a lot, but after the season he just had in terms of carries and yardage and considering his age, it's not like he's going to be around much longer running effectively. A RB stable of Charles, Jones and Gerhart for the next couple of years wouldn't be a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination.

Deberg_1990
04-21-2010, 12:22 PM
He's a lot more promising that a guy like Larry Johnson, who never showed any patience or vision heading into the line and had zero knack for slipping into holes on the offensive line.



:facepalm:

L.A. Chieffan
04-21-2010, 12:23 PM
His style is fun to watch but it wont last long in the NFL. Running into LBs every play does not bode well over many seasons.

buddha
04-21-2010, 12:23 PM
Saccopoo is spot on correct. Gerhart isn't wildly fast, but he's fast enough, and dude is strong like bull. Steven Jackson isn't a good comparison because Jackson is a really tall back. Gerhart is more Jim Taylor of the old Packers, but even thicker. I'd love to have this kid playing for the Chiefs. He is a man's man out on the field.

mikey23545
04-21-2010, 12:35 PM
Wonderlic scores?

He went to fucking Stanford.

I would guess his Wonderlic score would be far higher than a moron like you...Go back to having sex with Elway and Rothlisberger...

mikey23545
04-21-2010, 12:37 PM
the one thing i see an issue with from his highlits is he's slow. There were several runs that he was caught from behind that should have been TD's

I can't say I saw any run where he had any kind of angle and didn't score...

Could it be you're a slightly prejudiced black guy?...

Deberg_1990
04-21-2010, 12:56 PM
I can't say I saw any run where he had any kind of angle and didn't score...



Most of the runs in his highlight reel he wasnt even touched until he was 7 or 8 yards past the LOS...

Short Leash Hootie
04-21-2010, 01:26 PM
of course it factors!

If I'm an NFL GM...I'm not taking a white halfback or a white cornerback, period.

Deberg_1990
04-21-2010, 01:50 PM
If I'm an NFL GM...I'm not taking a white halfback or a white cornerback, period.

and no black QB either right? :)

Short Leash Hootie
04-21-2010, 01:53 PM
and no black QB either right? :)

pretty much

Gadzooks
04-21-2010, 01:56 PM
Most of the runs in his highlight reel he wasnt even touched until he was 7 or 8 yards past the LOS...

I noticed that too but IMO he'll get you 3 to 4 ypc when there are no holes open at the LOS due to his power and the fact that he does a nice job of falling forward.

Short Leash Hootie
04-21-2010, 01:56 PM
there's enough black RB's out there where I don't need to waste a pick on perhaps finding a great white hope...

Sweet Daddy Hate
04-21-2010, 03:22 PM
He went to fucking Stanford.

I would guess his Wonderlic score would be far higher than a moron like you...Go back to having sex with Elway and Rothlisberger...

ROFL

Fucking shit; I suddenly like Mikey!

Cave Johnson
04-21-2010, 03:32 PM
We may have found the next Boerigter....

DJ's left nut
04-21-2010, 03:51 PM
He's Haley's Wes Welker!!!111!1!1

Jethopper
04-21-2010, 03:54 PM
Toby will probably go to NE! They love white players.

Mecca
04-21-2010, 03:56 PM
His real problem is his insane amount of carries he had to get his stats, no one wants an overworked RB.

Demonpenz
04-21-2010, 03:58 PM
I would compare him to travis Jervy

Cave Johnson
04-21-2010, 04:06 PM
It's like this article was written by CP.

http://www.nfldailydose.com/tag/travis-jervey/

InChiefsHell
04-21-2010, 07:41 PM
Holy shit, that dude is a load, a total beast I tell you! I mean, he's no Boomer Grigsby, but hey, who is??

I would have no problem picking him up in the 3rd if he was there. Imagine that combo with Charles, Jones and the Great White Hope...

Saul Good
04-21-2010, 08:07 PM
His real problem is his insane amount of carries he had to get his stats, no one wants an overworked RB.

If USC could have knocked him down before he got six yards, his carries would have decreased dramatically.

BigChiefFan
04-21-2010, 08:18 PM
The Next Mike Alstott. Line this kid up at FB and you'll see one of the most prolific FBs the game has ever seen. I like him at RB, but believe he could be a terror as a FB, with the threat of big chunks of yardage, every time he touches the football. Keep 'em off guard.

InChiefsHell
04-22-2010, 06:49 AM
If USC could have knocked him down before he got six yards, his carries would have decreased dramatically.

Ooooh...anyone smell that? Somethin's burning...:D