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dirk digler
04-23-2010, 08:09 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

As the question of where Jimmy Clausen will end up begins to dominate the second day of the NFL draft, the Kansas City Chiefs are increasingly being linked with the Notre Dame quarterback.

Adam Schefter reported on ESPN Radio this morning that the Chiefs actually liked Clausen enough to take him with their first-round pick, fifth overall. It's just that they liked the player they took, Tennessee safety Eric Berry, a little better.

So if Clausen is still available when the Chiefs' second-round pick, No. 36 overall, comes up, could they really pass on a player they thought was worthy of a Top 5 overall selection? Schefter also said Chiefs offensive coordinator Charlie Weis, Clausen's college coach, will lobby G.M. Scott Pioli with Kansas City's second-round pick.

It seems unlikely that the Chiefs will draft a quarterback given the money they've committed to Matt Cassel. But Cassel's contract makes it possible that they'd want to cut bait with him after the 2010 season.

It seems like a long shot that the Chiefs would select Clausen. But yesterday it seemed like a long shot that we'd even be talking about it today.

BigRedChief
04-23-2010, 08:14 AM
It seems unlikely that the Chiefs will draft a quarterback given the money they've committed to Matt Cassel. But Cassel's contract makes it possible that they'd want to cut bait with him after the 2010 season.WTF. They can't draft Clausen because they paid Cassel all this money and the next sentence he says but they can vut him next year without a problem? Make up your mind jeeezzz

This can be Cassell's last year if he sucks and no cap issues will result from releasing him. If he rocks, we still have him locked up. BTW, Genius move by Pioli :clap:

So cassel's contract is not a factor in whether to bring on Clausen or not.

dirk digler
04-23-2010, 08:18 AM
WTF. They can't draft Clausen because they paid Cassel all this money and the next sentence he says but they can vut him next year without a problem? Make up your mind jeeezzz

This can be Cassell's last year if he sucks and no cap issues will result from releasing him. If he rocks, we still have him locked up. BTW, Genius move by Pioli :clap:

So cassel's contract is not a factor in whether to bring on Clausen or not.

I am just kind of surprised they liked Clausen with the #5 pick. I guess that means there is a very good chance they draft him if he is there at 2a.

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-23-2010, 08:20 AM
Wow. Berry, Clausen is within reach without giving up any extra picks or just a 4th if they want to move up. Who woulda thunk it?

patteeu
04-23-2010, 08:21 AM
If the Chiefs really feel this way about Clausen, I'd be fine with taking him. If they don't feel this way, I'm fine with them spreading this rumor so that one of the suckers in front of us takes him instead of Kindle or whoever it is that we really have targeted.

More than just about any other prospect, I'll trust the Chiefs' judgment on Clausen (and the other domers).

patteeu
04-23-2010, 08:22 AM
I am just kind of surprised they liked Clausen with the #5 pick. I guess that means there is a very good chance they draft him if he is there at 2a.

IMO, it's a little bit hard to believe that they could have a top 5 opinion about a QB prospect but somehow decide they like a safety even better. :spock:

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-23-2010, 08:24 AM
IMO, it's a little bit hard to believe that they could have a top 5 opinion about a QB prospect but somehow decide they like a safety even better. :spock:

Berry is the type of player Pioli has wet dreams over.

BigRedChief
04-23-2010, 08:24 AM
If the Chiefs really feel this way about Clausen, I'd be fine with taking him. If they don't feel this way, I'm fine with them spreading this rumor so that one of the suckers in front of us takes him instead of Kindle or whoever it is that we really have targeted.

More than just about any other prospect, I'll trust the Chiefs' judgment on Clausen (and the other domers).Kindle has a serious knee issue.

dirk digler
04-23-2010, 08:26 AM
IMO, it's a little bit hard to believe that they could have a top 5 opinion about a QB prospect but somehow decide they like a safety even better. :spock:

Yep. Of course maybe they knew all along he was going to fall but Berry wouldn't. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense but I am very happy with Berry.

ForeverChiefs58
04-23-2010, 08:26 AM
wonder if chiefs are on phones trying to trade croyle? would be more of an indication they have clausen in their sites maybe.

Chiefnj2
04-23-2010, 08:33 AM
I saw that article and thought, BS. If they liked him enough to take him at 5 then they sure as hell would have made a move to grab him late on day 1.

BigRedChief
04-23-2010, 08:34 AM
Here are 10 teams that may not be able to resist rescuing Clausen from his draft free fall:

Arizona Cardinals: If they don't think Matt Leinart or Derek Anderson is the long-range answer, they might have an opportunity to give themselves another option.
Buffalo Bills: Apparently they were hoping Tim Tebow would be there for them in the second round with pick No. 41. Ain't gonna happen. After taking RB C.J. Spiller with their first pick -- which seemed a bit of a luxury -- do they address myriad other needs (both lines, receiver) or take a chance on Clausen to be the franchise quarterback they've lacked since Jim Kelly's retirement?
Carolina Panthers: They're not scheduled to pick until No. 48, and coach John Fox and GM Marty Hurney probably need ready-made players to help secure their tenuous jobs, but ...
Cleveland Browns: They didn't have much luck with another Golden Domer, departed Brady Quinn, and many believe Browns president Mike Holmgren might prefer that Texas QB Colt McCoy runs his precision offense. But Holmgren could have quite a second-round dilemma at slot No. 38 on his hands.
Kansas City Chiefs: Yes, QB Matt Cassel is set to enter the second year of a six-year pact. But any chance new offensive coordinator Charlie Weis might prefer his former lead Irishman?
Minnesota Vikings: Only the Rams are sitting ahead of them in Round 2, and we're guessing St. Louis isn't looking to deploy a Sam Bradford-Jimmy Clausen platoon under center. Minnesota's in prime position to secure a successor for Brett Favre whenever he finally hangs it up.
Oakland Raiders: Clausen doesn't necessarily have the booming arm owner Al Davis tends to prefer ... but surely he couldn't do any worse than JaMarcus Russell has (and at a fraction of the cost if he's selected 39th!).
Seattle Seahawks: They had quite a night Thursday by getting offensive (Russell Okung) and defensive (Earl Thomas) cornerstones. But despite the presence of QBs Matt Hasselbeck and Charlie Whitehurst, coach Pete Carroll has insisted the team isn't wed to either player, and his relationship with Clausen goes back many years. Seattle likely would have to move up from the 60th spot to get something done.
San Francisco 49ers: Their offensive line looks to be in great shape after adding T Anthony Davis and G Mike Iupati on Thursday night. Now they just need some consistency behind it. Do they bring Clausen home to California given they don't have long-term ties to starter Alex Smith or backup David Carr?
Washington Redskins: Currently relegated to wait until Round 4, they'd have to get creative to move into position to get Clausen. But if you believe the rumors that Mike Shanahan wants to get a guy he can groom, and given Donovan McNabb can go free next year ... suffice it to say, splashy moves tend to come from Redskins Park.
-- Nate Davis
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/04/with-round-1-of-the-nfl-draft-over-where-will-jimmy-clausen-end-up/1

patteeu
04-23-2010, 08:36 AM
Berry is the type of player Pioli has wet dreams over.

I think that's overblown. I don't think it's enough to explain choosing a safety over a guy you think is a franchise QB.

patteeu
04-23-2010, 08:37 AM
Kindle has a serious knee issue.

Ugg, I just read about that. :(

Micjones
04-23-2010, 08:37 AM
If he's on the board at 36 there's going to be some serious talk in that war room.

patteeu
04-23-2010, 08:38 AM
Yep. Of course maybe they knew all along he was going to fall but Berry wouldn't. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense but I am very happy with Berry.

It's not like Clausen was a little known, hidden-gem QB from a small school in Alaska. They couldn't have possibly expected a well-examined guy they believed was #5 quality to fall out of the first round and back to them.

mlyonsd
04-23-2010, 08:38 AM
I think that's overblown. I don't think it's enough to explain choosing a safety over a guy you think is a franchise QB.

I think all it proves is the Chiefs thought Berry was more of a sure bet than Clausen. So in essence you're right.

Rain Man
04-23-2010, 08:41 AM
Kindle has a serious knee issue.

He what? He was high on my list. What's the knee issue?

ForeverChiefs58
04-23-2010, 08:42 AM
I remember there was talk of san deigo drafting drew brees in the 1st, around pick #5. they went LT in the 1st instead, and drew fell all the way back to them in the 2nd.

ForeverChiefs58
04-23-2010, 08:43 AM
Rivals.com reported before the first round of the NFL Draft on Thursday that former Texas linebacker Sergio Kindle might not be picked until later rounds because of a knee injury he sustained at one point this season. Teams see him as a "serious" medical risk because of his knee, which one team said looks like it could require microfracture surgery.

The injury didn't seem to pose any problems during the BCS national championship game, however, where he posted 2.5 sacks.

Microfracture is a surgery to create cartilage in the knee when it becomes a bone-on-bone situation. It's a surgery athletes tend to have near the end of their careers, not the beginning.

Rivals.com said that Kindle's medical exams showed a series of trauma on the knee that could limit his career.

Athletes have played through injuries such as this one, but it is still something NFL teams need to evaluate before drafting someone.

mlyonsd
04-23-2010, 08:46 AM
He what? He was high on my list. What's the knee issue?http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=227051

patteeu
04-23-2010, 08:47 AM
He what? He was high on my list. What's the knee issue?

Knee issue :( (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=227051)

Fat Elvis
04-23-2010, 08:50 AM
Berry is the type of player Pioli has wet dreams over.

Berry is the type of player every football fan has wet dreams over.

dirk digler
04-23-2010, 08:51 AM
It's not like Clausen was a little known, hidden-gem QB from a small school in Alaska. They couldn't have possibly expected a well-examined guy they believed was #5 quality to fall out of the first round and back to them.

I don't actually believe it I was just throwing it out there. If the Chiefs think he is that good he should be our next pick I would think.

dirk digler
04-23-2010, 08:52 AM
Berry is the type of player every football fan has wet dreams over.

Trust me I know. I had to throw the sheets in the washer this morning

Fat Elvis
04-23-2010, 08:52 AM
If he's on the board at 36 there's going to be some serious talk in that war room.

Not really. If he is still there at 36 the decision becomes a slam dunk; no need for discussion since they thought he graded out as worthy of a #5 pick.

patteeu
04-23-2010, 08:53 AM
I don't actually believe it I was just throwing it out there. If the Chiefs think he is that good he should be our next pick I would think.

Yes, I agree. Even if they didn't really consider him at #5, if they think he's worth the risk here, I'm on board since Weis ought to have a pretty good idea of what he's getting into.

burt
04-23-2010, 08:57 AM
The more ya know about Berry.....the better he looks!

KChiefs1
04-23-2010, 09:04 AM
Damn I didn't know about Kindle's knee...I really wanted him but I can see why teams are backing off until later.

"IF" the Chiefs love Clausen & were thinking of taking him at #5 then it's a no-brainer they'll take him with #36.

Micjones
04-23-2010, 09:05 AM
Not really. If he is still there at 36 the decision becomes a slam dunk; no need for discussion since they thought he graded out as worthy of a #5 pick.

Then why not take him there at 5?
It was a pretty big gamble to expect him to still be on the board at 33.
Hell, he might not be there at 36.

Fat Elvis
04-23-2010, 09:09 AM
Then why not take him there at 5?
It was a pretty big gamble to expect him to still be on the board at 33.
Hell, he might not be there at 36.

Because if a guy who you graded out as a 1 or 2 is still there at 5, you take him....

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-23-2010, 09:10 AM
Berry is the type of player every football fan has wet dreams over.

Absolutely

GoTrav
04-23-2010, 09:11 AM
So this means we basically have to trade up now to get him because anyone else interested in Clausen would now be looking to jump in front of us to grab him?

DJ's left nut
04-23-2010, 09:22 AM
If the Chiefs really feel this way about Clausen, I'd be fine with taking him. If they don't feel this way, I'm fine with them spreading this rumor so that one of the suckers in front of us takes him instead of Kindle or whoever it is that we really have targeted.

More than just about any other prospect, I'll trust the Chiefs' judgment on Clausen (and the other domers).

That's the stance I'm taking as well at this point.

I want Jimmy Clausen, I really do. I think he's a guy that will end up as a top 10 QB in the league for a long long time (upside slightly above Eli Manning). That's easily worth a 2nd rounder, IMO.

At the same time - if the Chiefs don't take him it's because they know more about him than I do. Charlie Weiss would get his man if he really thought he was that good. If the Chiefs pass, it's because the guy that knows more about him than any coach knows about any other QB in the draft, said they should.

I can live with that. If it turns out that he's as good as I think he can be, then I'll be a little annoyed.

But nowhere near as insanely furious as I would have been had we taken Okung or the nuclear level of batshit crazy I would've been w/ Brian Bulaga.

Micjones
04-23-2010, 09:22 AM
Because if a guy who you graded out as a 1 or 2 is still there at 5, you take him....

I'd take Clausen at 36 in a heartbeat.
I'm just wondering why they'd take that chance if they were really high on him.

DJ's left nut
04-23-2010, 09:23 AM
So this means we basically have to trade up now to get him because anyone else interested in Clausen would now be looking to jump in front of us to grab him?

The Vikings are sitting in Detroits slot and I believe they'll take him. Ultimately it would be hard for them to pass on a guy that could help them win now when they're this close (i.e. taking Larry Johnson instead of Boss Bailey), but I still think they'll grab him up.

Bwana
04-23-2010, 09:27 AM
If they REALLY warmed up to the guy, they would have made a trade and moved up at the end of the 1st round and picked him up IMHO. They may take him if he falls into their lap with the 2a pick, but I don't see them moving up to get him. There are a lot of needs on this team and and Scott doesn't seem to be the kind of guy that gives up draft picks.

Micjones
04-23-2010, 09:28 AM
So this means we basically have to trade up now to get him because anyone else interested in Clausen would now be looking to jump in front of us to grab him?

If we could get it done for one of our three #5's...
Go get him.

Chiefnj2
04-23-2010, 09:29 AM
If they REALLY warmed up to the guy, they would have made a trade and moved up at the end of the 1st round and picked him up IMHO. They may take him if he falls into their lap with the 2a pick, but I don't see them moving up to get him. There are a lot of needs on this team and and Scott doesn't seem to be the kind of guy that gives up draft picks.

That's how I see it. If they really felt a franchise QB was worth a top 10 pick, they would have done something to get into the bottom of the 1st round.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if KC moves down a few draft spots to let another team get a shot at Clausen and/or McCoy.

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2010, 09:31 AM
The Vikings are sitting in Detroits slot and I believe they'll take him. Ultimately it would be hard for them to pass on a guy that could help them win now when they're this close (i.e. taking Larry Johnson instead of Boss Bailey), but I still think they'll grab him up.

I think Minnesota has no interest in him, and screwed themselves last night.

They wanted Patrick Robinson, and thought he'd be there at 34 - then the Saints sniped them.

I wouldn't be shocked to see the Rams AND Vikings trade out of their spots.

ForeverChiefs58
04-23-2010, 09:34 AM
You think it is a coincidence that Jimmy Clausen's initials are JC?

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2010, 09:34 AM
That's how I see it. If they really felt a franchise QB was worth a top 10 pick, they would have done something to get into the bottom of the 1st round.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if KC moves down a few draft spots to let another team get a shot at Clausen and/or McCoy.

Who's to say they didn't try?

I read a report this AM that said 3 other teams called Minnesota for their pick, but they went with Detroit's offer.

Not saying we were one of the 3 that called, but you can't rule it out.

They either aren't as enamored with him as we figured, or they think they can get him without giving up an extra pick to do so.

If the talk is true that both Cleveland and Carolina prefer McCoy over Clausen, I can see the logic behind their thinking.

We'll know pretty early this evening.

Micjones
04-23-2010, 09:36 AM
Who's to say they didn't try?

I read a report this AM that said 3 other teams called Minnesota for their pick, but they went with Detroit's offer.

Not saying we were one of the 3 that called, but you can't rule it out.

They either aren't as enamored with him as we figured, or they think they can get him without giving up an extra pick to do so.

If the talk is true that both Cleveland and Carolina prefer McCoy over Clausen, I can see the logic behind their thinking.

We'll know pretty early this evening.

I'd offer up one of the #5's to St. Louis and Minnesota to move up.
If they don't bite...stand pat...see if he's still there.
If Minny takes him... You've got ALOT of great options left.

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2010, 09:39 AM
I'd offer up one of the #5's to St. Louis and Minnesota to move up.
If they don't bite...stand pat...see if he's still there.
If Minny takes him... You've got ALOT of great options left.

Me too, and it should get it done, unless someone wants to blatantly overpay for one of those spots.

Our 5a is a perfect value match for the Rams pick, and would be a solid overpayment for Minnesota's pick.

Micjones
04-23-2010, 09:42 AM
Me too, and it should get it done, unless someone wants to blatantly overpay for one of those spots.

Our 5a is a perfect value match for the Rams pick, and would be a solid overpayment for Minnesota's pick.

Yep, that's what I was thinking...Our highest pick in the 5th Round.
I wouldn't sweat it, but I would definitely make the call.

Chiefnj2
04-23-2010, 09:42 AM
Who's to say they didn't try?

I read a report this AM that said 3 other teams called Minnesota for their pick, but they went with Detroit's offer.

Not saying we were one of the 3 that called, but you can't rule it out.

They either aren't as enamored with him as we figured, or they think they can get him without giving up an extra pick to do so.

If the talk is true that both Cleveland and Carolina prefer McCoy over Clausen, I can see the logic behind their thinking.

We'll know pretty early this evening.

The only thing for sure is that 32 teams aren't that enamored with him.

Der Flöprer
04-23-2010, 09:43 AM
I don't believe they liked him enough to draft at 5. If that was the case, they would've happily moved back up in the late 20's when he slid all that way.

I want him for this franchise bad, but I'm not sure Pioli feels the same way. Pretty sure Weis does though, so who knows?

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2010, 10:05 AM
The only thing for sure is that 32 teams aren't that enamored with him.

You really want to make that argument?

Sincerely,

Drew Brees, Brett Favre and Tom Brady

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 10:09 AM
You really want to make that argument?

Sincerely,

Drew Brees, Brett Favre and Tom Brady

Cosigned by Joe Montana

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 10:10 AM
I think they're just going to wait and see if he's still available at #36. That way if he is....they can just claim BPA and take him.

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2010, 10:10 AM
John Clayton just summed up the Clausen to KC situation perfectly.

Charlie Weis wants Jimmy Clausen, but Scott Pioli makes the decisions.

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 10:11 AM
John Clayton just summed up the Clausen to KC situation perfectly.

Charlie Weis wants Jimmy Clausen, but Scott Pioli makes the decisions.

If I'm Pioli....I'm on the phone with Buffalo right now. I'm either seeing if they want to trade up for Clausen or if they want to take Croyle off of our hands.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-23-2010, 10:12 AM
You really want to make that argument?

Sincerely,

Drew Brees, Brett Favre and Tom Brady


The difference is that each of the above had legit concerns about them. Brees was short. Brett Favre was a very, very raw prospect. And, Tom Brady was a part time starter.

None of them, not a single one had the height, size and NUMBERS to be considered a #1 pick. So, for Clausen to fall..... it says more about him as a person than these other guys.

warpaint*
04-23-2010, 10:13 AM
Clausen = Alex Smith.

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 10:14 AM
Clausen = Alex Smith.

You = Retard

Der Flöprer
04-23-2010, 10:15 AM
Clausen = Alex Smith.

That's retarded. But I'll give you a chance to redeem yourself. In what ways are Clausen comparable to Alex Smith? Because at this point, Bradford compares to Smith, Tebow compares to Smith. How does Clausen come close to comparing to Alex Smith?

FAX
04-23-2010, 10:17 AM
Interestingly, Cassel's trade value becomes a factor even if he performs well this year.

There are wheels within wheels. Enigmas within mysteries. Midgets inside of medicine balls.

FAX

Reaper16
04-23-2010, 10:21 AM
That's retarded. But I'll give you a chance to redeem yourself. In what ways are Clausen comparable to Alex Smith? Because at this point, Bradford compares to Smith, Tebow compares to Smith. How does Clausen come close to comparing to Alex Smith?
I think that he's referencing the hand size issue.

DJ's left nut
04-23-2010, 10:23 AM
I think that he's referencing the hand size issue.

I think you're giving him too much credit.

I think he's just a moron.

warpaint*
04-23-2010, 10:23 AM
That's retarded. But I'll give you a chance to redeem yourself. In what ways are Clausen comparable to Alex Smith? Because at this point, Bradford compares to Smith, Tebow compares to Smith. How does Clausen come close to comparing to Alex Smith?

My opinion of his level of success in the NFL. It puzzles me that the CP thinktank seems to be that he is a sure thing.

Der Flöprer
04-23-2010, 10:23 AM
I think that he's referencing the hand size issue.

LMAO

Clausen = Dave Krieg

DBOSHO
04-23-2010, 10:25 AM
Clausen=jesus

warpaint*
04-23-2010, 10:25 AM
I think you're giving him too much credit.

I think he's just a moron.

Why? At the very least it's up for debate. 32 teams thought so to the extent to pass on him once over. This board acts like he's the second coming of Peyton Manning.

Der Flöprer
04-23-2010, 10:25 AM
My opinion of his level of success in the NFL. It puzzles me that the CP thinktank seems to be that he is a sure thing.

No QB in any draft is a sure thing. But what's the best bet? The guy with 3 years starting experience that threw 4 interceptions his senior season, 2 of which bounced off of his receivers first? The pro style offense? Elite accuracy and touch? The ability to lead his team from behind to win games?

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you're off. Clausen is the best QB prospect in this draft in my opinion. Why? Because this post didn't dislocate his shoulder.

L.A. Chieffan
04-23-2010, 10:26 AM
I'm a Notre Dame fan and even I had some doubts about Clausen as a high #1.

BUT, if you have a chance to take a guy like this in the fucking SECOND round, especially with only one year left on a guy like Cassel, you do it.

Period.

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2010, 10:27 AM
I love how people use the "32 teams passed on him" line.

Like all 32 teams are in need of a QB.

There might be 8 teams that realistically are looking for a franchise QB.

L.A. Chieffan
04-23-2010, 10:28 AM
I love how people use the "32 teams passed on him" line.

Like all 32 teams are in need of a QB.

There might be 8 teams that realistically are looking for a franchise QB.

Now he's got a chip on his shoulder against every team in the league.

WATCH OUT NFL!

DJ's left nut
04-23-2010, 10:33 AM
Why? At the very least it's up for debate. 32 teams thought so to the extent to pass on him once over. This board acts like he's the second coming of Peyton Manning.

Because there are actual college QBs w/ pedigrees and skill-sets extremely similar to Clausen that he could be compared to.

Clausen = Rick Mirer
Clausen = Heath Shuler
Clausen = Jason Campbell (though this would violate the 'never compare a white guy to a black guy' rule)
Clausen = Jim Druckenmiller
Clausen = Tim Couch


There are SCADS of early round QBs that came into the league from pro-style offenses with slightly above average arm-strength and leadership issues. Alex Smith had absolutely none of those attributes.

The things that hold Smith back are things that Clausen actually does quite well.

You're a moron because you just plucked a name from a hat and said "Clausen = Mediocre QB" instead of actually engaging your brain and coming up with a worthwhile comparison.

CP isn't kindergarden. You don't get to put that shit on my refridgerator and expect me to fawn over it.

</post>
04-23-2010, 10:33 AM
If I'm Pioli....I'm on the phone with Buffalo right now. I'm either seeing if they want to trade up for Clausen or if they want to take Croyle off of our hands.

That would be insane if you could trade Croyle to the Bills. We steal Clausen, and even if we had to move up, we recoup a pick.

Reaper16
04-23-2010, 10:39 AM
I think you're giving him too much credit.

I think he's just a moron.
It appears that you were correct. I was giving him too much credit.

warpaint*
04-23-2010, 10:42 AM
I'm a Notre Dame fan and even I had some doubts about Clausen as a high #1.

BUT, if you have a chance to take a guy like this in the ****ing SECOND round, especially with only one year left on a guy like Cassel, you do it.

Period.

No argument on Cassel. I didn't like the trade at the time and last year did nothing to dispel that.

Due to the CW factor I won't have a problem with them taking him in the second round.

Pitt Gorilla
04-23-2010, 10:44 AM
If the Chiefs really feel this way about Clausen, I'd be fine with taking him. If they don't feel this way, I'm fine with them spreading this rumor so that one of the suckers in front of us takes him instead of Kindle or whoever it is that we really have targeted.

More than just about any other prospect, I'll trust the Chiefs' judgment on Clausen (and the other domers).You know that the Chiefs aren't telling the truth here; nobody does during the draft.

Der Flöprer
04-23-2010, 10:45 AM
No argument on Cassel. I didn't like the trade at the time and last year did nothing to dispel that.

Due to the CW factor I won't have a problem with them taking him in the second round.

I'm not trying to troll you here. I'd genuinely like your take on why you don't think Clausen will succeed at the next level.

patteeu
04-23-2010, 10:45 AM
You really want to make that argument?

Sincerely,

Drew Brees, Brett Favre and Tom Brady

What happened to the "franchise QBs come from the 1st round" argument? What's the ratio of Superbowl QBs who were passed on by every team in the first round to those who were taken in the first round again? Isn't that one of the arguments that all the folks who argue that we should take a QB in round one always trot out?

Please forgive me if I'm mistaken in my belief that you've been a part of that group.

DeezNutz
04-23-2010, 10:47 AM
CP isn't kindergarden. You don't get to put that shit on my refridgerator and expect me to fawn over it.

LMAO.

Detoxing
04-23-2010, 10:50 AM
CP isn't kindergarden. You don't get to put that shit on my refridgerator and expect me to fawn over it.

Oh that's ****ing classic

LMAO LMAO LMAO

warpaint*
04-23-2010, 10:51 AM
Because there are actual college QBs w/ pedigrees and skill-sets extremely similar to Clausen that he could be compared to.

Clausen = Rick Mirer
Clausen = Heath Shuler
Clausen = Jason Campbell (though this would violate the 'never compare a white guy to a black guy' rule)
Clausen = Jim Druckenmiller
Clausen = Tim Couch


There are SCADS of early round QBs that came into the league from pro-style offenses with slightly above average arm-strength and leadership issues. Alex Smith had absolutely none of those attributes.

The things that hold Smith back are things that Clausen actually does quite well.

You're a moron because you just plucked a name from a hat and said "Clausen = Mediocre QB" instead of actually engaging your brain and coming up with a worthwhile comparison.

CP isn't kindergarden. You don't get to put that shit on my refridgerator and expect me to fawn over it.

The point is that I think he's going to be a mediocre pro, nothing more, nothing less. You inferred more than that.

You have a high opinion of a internet mb full of amateurs that sling 5th grade insults and pat themselves on the back after posting retread drivel that any hack can google as if the place is full of astute students of the game. Laughable.

Mr. Laz
04-23-2010, 10:51 AM
If Clausen and Tate are both there when the Chiefs pick at 2a it's going to be interesting to see what happens. :)

DJ's left nut
04-23-2010, 10:53 AM
You have a high opinion of a internet mb full of amateurs that sling 5th grade insults and pat themselves on the back after posting retread drivel that any hack can google as if the place is full of astute students of the game. Laughable.

Nah.

I just have a fairly low opinion of folks that come out of the gates completely devoid of substance or insight.

Reaper16
04-23-2010, 10:54 AM
What happened to the "franchise QBs come from the 1st round" argument? What's the ratio of Superbowl QBs who were passed on by every team in the first round to those who were taken in the first round again? Isn't that one of the arguments that all the folks who argue that we should take a QB in round one always trot out?

Please forgive me if I'm mistaken in my belief that you've been a part of that group.
Rare is the case of a clear 1st round talent at the QB position not going in the 1st.

Der Flöprer
04-23-2010, 10:55 AM
The point is that I think he's going to be a mediocre pro, nothing more, nothing less. You inferred more than that.

You have a high opinion of a internet mb full of amateurs that sling 5th grade insults and pat themselves on the back after posting retread drivel that any hack can google as if the place is full of astute students of the game. Laughable.

More laughable than you continuously saying that he's going to be mediocre with absolutely no substance to back it up?

Mr. Laz
04-23-2010, 10:55 AM
Rare is the case of a clear 1st round talent at the QB position not going in the 1st.
umm ... if a QB ends up winning a super bowl isn't he pretty much 1st round talent. Just misdiagnosed 1st round talent?

if joe montana and tom brady were drafted again today they would surely be 1st round talent.

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2010, 10:57 AM
What happened to the "franchise QBs come from the 1st round" argument? What's the ratio of Superbowl QBs who were passed on by every team in the first round to those who were taken in the first round again? Isn't that one of the arguments that all the folks who argue that we should take a QB in round one always trot out?

Please forgive me if I'm mistaken in my belief that you've been a part of that group.

Rare is the case of a clear 1st round talent at the QB position not going in the 1st.

Beat me to it.

the Talking Can
04-23-2010, 10:58 AM
The point is that I think he's going to be a mediocre pro, nothing more, nothing less. You inferred more than that.

You have a high opinion of a internet mb full of amateurs that sling 5th grade insults and pat themselves on the back after posting retread drivel that any hack can google as if the place is full of astute students of the game. Laughable.

nah, you're just a dumbass who thinks Clausen and Smith have something in common as QBs...


you're probably guardian's sober dupe

patteeu
04-23-2010, 11:02 AM
Rare is the case of a clear 1st round talent at the QB position not going in the 1st.

Ah, I see. An exception to the rule that you're a dumbass if you even suggest that you can get a franchise QB after round 1 as evidenced by Superbowl winners like Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Joe Montana, and now Drew Brees.

I'm not sure I'm buying it.

Baby Lee
04-23-2010, 11:03 AM
I'd take Clausen at 36 in a heartbeat.
I'm just wondering why they'd take that chance if they were really high on him.

Good News!! Watching the D in the future will sort that out for you.

Chiefnj2
04-23-2010, 11:03 AM
I guess nfl execs don't feel he is clear 1st round talent.

Reaper16
04-23-2010, 11:03 AM
umm ... if a QB ends up winning a super bowl isn't he pretty much 1st round talent. Just misdiagnosed 1st round talent?

In same cases, yes. In other cases (Brad Johnson) they are not. In still other cases the QB's aren't 1st rounders because they are considered projects that need development.

Reaper16
04-23-2010, 11:06 AM
Ah, I see. An exception to the rule that you're a dumbass if you even suggest that you can get a franchise QB after round 1 as evidenced by Superbowl winners like Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Joe Montana, and now Drew Brees.

I'm not sure I'm buying it.
Guys like Brees and Favre were 1st round talents that fell. Brady wasn't but he's the super exception to everything.

You're putting too much cache into the ability of NFL franchise decision makers to draft a player where his talent & draft grade suggest that he should be at. My argument is that Clausen is a 1st round talent and that he will not magically be any worse a player because he was taken a few spots outside of the 1st round.

milkman
04-23-2010, 11:07 AM
Ah, I see. An exception to the rule that you're a dumbass if you even suggest that you can get a franchise QB after round 1 as evidenced by Superbowl winners like Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Joe Montana, and now Drew Brees.

I'm not sure I'm buying it.

Actually, what was argued is that your best chance of finding a franchise QB is in the first round.

That argument is still true.

The fact also remains that franchise QBs can be found later in the draft, but the odds grow smaller with each round.

If you play the odds, you draft a QB in the first round.

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2010, 11:08 AM
Buffalo and Cleveland have both called the Rams this morning, per Adam Schefter.

Bill Lundberg
04-23-2010, 11:09 AM
Buffalo and Cleveland have both called the Rams this morning, per Adam Schefter.

This

Adam_Schefter (http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter)
Filed to ESPN: Bills and Browns have contacted the Rams about trading for the No. 33 pick. Jimmy Clausen, Colt McCoy in play. #nfldraft (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23nfldraft)

DBOSHO
04-23-2010, 11:09 AM
Croyle and our 4 to buff for their 2nd

Nightfyre
04-23-2010, 11:10 AM
I think there is a problem evaluating QBs in general. A QB's upside is not in his arm strength and his mobility. Those things are nice, but realistically, Peyton Manning does not have elite arm strength or mobility. He has an elite football brain. Clausen portrays similar attributes, imo. He often reads the defense, calls a hot route or an audible, and puts the ball where it needs to be. He has ADEQUATE arm strength to get the ball where he needs it go. He has more than adequate accuracy, which is enhanced by the fact that he can put himself in position to succeed more often than any of the other QBs in this draft.

A QBs upside is in his football brain provided he has adequate arm strength to make NFL throws and adequate accuracy. JMO.

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 11:10 AM
If the Bills trade up......it's for Clausen.

If the Browns trade up....it's for McCoy.

Der Flöprer
04-23-2010, 11:10 AM
Buffalo and Cleveland have both called the Rams this morning, per Adam Schefter.

FUCK

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 11:10 AM
Croyle and our 4 to buff for their 2nd

Fuck...I'd give them Croyle and our 3rd.

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2010, 11:11 AM
If the Bills trade up......it's for Clausen.

If the Browns trade up....it's for McCoy.

Agreed.

I can only hope they are BOTH targeting McCoy.

DBOSHO
04-23-2010, 11:11 AM
stupid stupid stupid

Youre stupid.

Seriously though, you wouldnt do that?

warpaint*
04-23-2010, 11:11 AM
More laughable than you continuously saying that he's going to be mediocre with absolutely no substance to back it up?

He's tall enough. His arm isn't a howitzer but it's strong enough. I am not sure he will be able to make all of the down field throws accurately though. His deep balls always seemed to have a lot of air under them. My questions on him have more to do w/ what's going on upstairs, leadership ability, attitude, etc. I wouldn't say he is not a winner since he never had a chance as he played on teams that couldn't run the ball or stop anyone. These aren't insights. They're the same questions most others that question him have about him. I happen to agree.

On one hand it is said that no QB is a sure thing but on the other I have apparantly stepped on some sacred ground questioning his pro potential since this place is in love w/ him.

Bill Lundberg
04-23-2010, 11:12 AM
Youre stupid.

Seriously though, you wouldnt do that?

I'd do backflips if we could do that. It will never happen though.

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 11:12 AM
Agreed.

I can only hope they are BOTH targeting McCoy.

That would be fucking sweet.

I don't want to say it....because I really want to believe Pioli is a smart guy....but if Clausen is there at #36....YOU HAVE TO TAKE HIM.

He's all about competition. Clausen in the 2nd brings competition to the QB spot....and it's cheap.

DJ's left nut
04-23-2010, 11:12 AM
Youre stupid.

Seriously though, you wouldnt do that?

I dunno.

I think I'd insist on Sean Ryan and our 6th.

Croyle and a 4rd isn't getting us Buffalo's pick. Furthermore, Buffalo's pick doesn't get us Jimmy Clausen.

He was right, it was a stupid post.

Try to do better next time.

Nightfyre
04-23-2010, 11:12 AM
He's tall enough. His arm isn't a howitzer but it's strong enough. I am not sure he will be able to make all of the down field throws accurately though. His deep balls always seemed to have a lot of air under them. My questions on him have more to do w/ what's going on upstairs, leadership ability, attitude, etc. I wouldn't say he is not a winner since he never had a chance as he played on teams that couldn't run the ball or stop anyone. These aren't insights. They're the same questions most others that question him have about him. I happen to agree.

On one hand it is said that no QB is a sure thing but on the other I have apparantly stepped on some sacred ground questioning his pro potential since this place is in love w/ him.

His deepball had air under it because he was throwing through his big toe with torn tendons in it...

Tribal Warfare
04-23-2010, 11:14 AM
This

Adam_Schefter (http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter)
Filed to ESPN: Bills and Browns have contacted the Rams about trading for the No. 33 pick. Jimmy Clausen, Colt McCoy in play. #nfldraft (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23nfldraft)

KC will jump ahead for Clausen IMO

DBOSHO
04-23-2010, 11:15 AM
I dunno.

I think I'd insist on Sean Ryan and our 6th.

Croyle and a 4rd isn't getting us Buffalo's pick. Furthermore, Buffalo's pick doesn't get us Jimmy Clausen.

He was right, it was a stupid post.

Try to do better next time.

Lmao oh no!

And i wasnt wanting buffalos pick for jimmy, just an extra 2nd.

Der Flöprer
04-23-2010, 11:16 AM
He's tall enough. His arm isn't a howitzer but it's strong enough. I am not sure he will be able to make all of the down field throws accurately though. His deep balls always seemed to have a lot of air under them. My questions on him have more to do w/ what's going on upstairs, leadership ability, attitude, etc. I wouldn't say he is not a winner since he never had a chance as he played on teams that couldn't run the ball or stop anyone. These aren't insights. They're the same questions most others that question him have about him. I happen to agree.

On one hand it is said that no QB is a sure thing but on the other I have apparantly stepped on some sacred ground questioning his pro potential since this place is in love w/ him.

No. I appreciate your opinion. I just wanted you to show me that you actually had one and were not jumping on a bandwagon. I disagree, particularly about the accuracy but that's okay. Thanks for sharing.

Short Leash Hootie
04-23-2010, 11:18 AM
Well...

Lets be honest.

Pioli/Weis/etc... have had an entire night to think about Clausen falling into the 2nd...

Either Weis has ZERO pull or they don't think he's any better than Cassel...

I don't know how I feel about that since I DESPERATELY want Clausen but I desperately wanted Quinn, too...so what the fuck do I know?

RedThat
04-23-2010, 11:18 AM
So, if the Browns or Bills want to trade up with the Rams, then that has to mean the Vikings want either Clausen or McCoy.

Why else would they want to trade up to #33? If the Vikes don't want a qb, or they knew the Chiefs want Clausen at #36, then wouldn't Tampa Bay be the team those teams should be talking trade with?

milkman
04-23-2010, 11:19 AM
He's tall enough. His arm isn't a howitzer but it's strong enough. I am not sure he will be able to make all of the down field throws accurately though. His deep balls always seemed to have a lot of air under them. My questions on him have more to do w/ what's going on upstairs, leadership ability, attitude, etc. I wouldn't say he is not a winner since he never had a chance as he played on teams that couldn't run the ball or stop anyone. These aren't insights. They're the same questions most others that question him have about him. I happen to agree.

On one hand it is said that no QB is a sure thing but on the other I have apparantly stepped on some sacred ground questioning his pro potential since this place is in love w/ him.

You didn't step on any sacred ground, you just made a stupid fucking comparison, and people called you on it.

Der Flöprer
04-23-2010, 11:19 AM
Well...

Lets be honest.

Pioli/Weis/etc... have had an entire night to think about Clausen falling into the 2nd...

Either Weis has ZERO pull or they don't think he's any better than Cassel...

I don't know how I feel about that since I DESPERATELY want Clausen but I desperately wanted Quinn, too...so what the fuck do I know?

I'm not sure you were wrong about Quinn. Talk about a guy who's never had a chance..........

patteeu
04-23-2010, 11:20 AM
Guys like Brees and Favre were 1st round talents that fell. Brady wasn't but he's the super exception to everything.

You're putting too much cache into the ability of NFL franchise decision makers to draft a player where his talent & draft grade suggest that he should be at. My argument is that Clausen is a 1st round talent and that he will not magically be any worse a player because he was taken a few spots outside of the 1st round.

No, what I'm doing is pointing out the hypocrisy of calling people dumbasses when they use Favre, Brady, and Brees as evidence that franchise QBs can be taken outside of round 1 and then turning around and using those same examples as a reason for not giving up on a QB who falls out of the first round.

The fierce and un-nuanced rejection of those who have argued for using the first rounder on another position and considering QB later in the draft has always been excessive and unwarranted.

Mr. Laz
04-23-2010, 11:21 AM
gotta trust Weis on this one

i don't think the Vikes take clausen ... if We really want him then he's there for the taking. It won't cost too much to move up 2/3 spots ... might even be able to use a pick from next year to move up.

Mr. Laz
04-23-2010, 11:21 AM
Well...

Lets be honest.

Pioli/Weis/etc... have had an entire night to think about Clausen falling into the 2nd...

Either Weis has ZERO pull or they don't think he's any better than Cassel...

I don't know how I feel about that since I DESPERATELY want Clausen but I desperately wanted Quinn, too...so what the fuck do I know?
nice post


agreed

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 11:22 AM
Well...

Lets be honest.

Pioli/Weis/etc... have had an entire night to think about Clausen falling into the 2nd...

Either Weis has ZERO pull or they don't think he's any better than Cassel...

I don't know how I feel about that since I DESPERATELY want Clausen but I desperately wanted Quinn, too...so what the fuck do I know?

FWIW....I think Quinn is getting fucked over everywhere he goes.

The Browns fucked him over with all of the start/pull bullshit they did.

He goes to the Broncos....and has a good opportunity.....and then they draft Tebow.

Short Leash Hootie
04-23-2010, 11:22 AM
you know what I thought was hilarious yesterday?

When the Eagles traded up and they cut to Schefter and he was like..."that's right, the Eagles have traded and will take Earl Thomas!"

No doubt in his mind...

and then the Eagles took Brandon Graham...

that was like a Mortenson "Shanahan to KC" moment.

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2010, 11:22 AM
So, if the Browns or Bills want to trade up with the Rams, then that has to mean the Vikings want either Clausen or McCoy.

Why else would they want to trade up to #33? If the Vikes don't want a qb, or they knew the Chiefs want Clausen at #36, then wouldn't Tampa Bay be the team those teams should be talking trade with?

No, it means they are worried that someone else will trade with the Rams.

If there's a guy you really want, the only way to guarantee you get him is to pick at 33.

Chocolate Hog
04-23-2010, 11:23 AM
The Vikings will draft Novorro Bowman.

BigRedChief
04-23-2010, 11:23 AM
Well...

Lets be honest.

Pioli/Weis/etc... have had an entire night to think about Clausen falling into the 2nd...

Either Weis has ZERO pull or they don't think he's any better than Cassel...

I don't know how I feel about that since I DESPERATELY want Clausen but I desperately wanted Quinn, too...so what the **** do I know?Weis has appeared on ESPN before he took the Chiefs job and said in an interview that Claussen is the real deal. A legit 10 year NFL starting QB, that any NFL team should snap up. He's been pretty quite publically since he took the Chiefs job for obvious competitive issues but I got it from multiple trusted sources that Weiss loves Claussen.

Now, does that mean he has enough pull to over rule Pioli, Haley, Crennel or whoever they are wanting? We will see. I know one thing for sure....if we pick Claussen it will be because of Weis's advocacy in the draft war room.

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 11:23 AM
No, it means they are worried that someone else will trade with the Rams.

If there's a guy you really want, the only way to guarantee you get him is to pick at 33.

If Colt McCoy goes 33.....we need to trade up to the Vikings spot and take Clausen. It would cost jack shit to trade from 36 to 34.

RedThat
04-23-2010, 11:24 AM
No, it means they are worried that someone else will trade with the Rams.

If there's a guy you really want, the only way to guarantee you get him is to pick at 33.

True. Good point.

Nightfyre
04-23-2010, 11:24 AM
you know what I thought was hilarious yesterday?

When the Eagles traded up and they cut to Schefter and he was like..."that's right, the Eagles have traded and will take Earl Thomas!"

No doubt in his mind...

and then the Eagles took Brandon Graham...

that was like a Mortenson "Shanahan to KC" moment.

I was in the same boat, to be fair. I told my brother, "They are definitely making a move for Earl Thomas," when I saw the Eagles had traded up.

patteeu
04-23-2010, 11:24 AM
Actually, what was argued is that your best chance of finding a franchise QB is in the first round.

That argument is still true.

The fact also remains that franchise QBs can be found later in the draft, but the odds grow smaller with each round.

If you play the odds, you draft a QB in the first round.

I disagree (not with your conclusion but with what you think the argument has been). There have been very few, if any, people who have argued that you have an equal or greater chance of finding a franchise QB later than the first round. There have been many people who have been criticized incessantly for saying that they didn't see any QBs (who would be available for the Chiefs in the first) who they thought were worth the risk.

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 11:24 AM
The Vikings will draft Novorro Bowman.

I think the Vikings are going with Mays personally.

Short Leash Hootie
04-23-2010, 11:25 AM
Weis has appeared on ESPN before he took the Chiefs job and said in an interview that Claussen is the real deal. A legit 10 year NFL starting QB, that any NFL team should snap up. He's been pretty quite publically since he took the Chiefs job for obvious competitive issues but I got it from multiple trusted sources that Weiss loves Claussen.

Now, does that mean he has enough pull to over rule Pioli, Haley, Crennel or whoever they are wanting? We will see. I know one thing for sure....if we pick Claussen it will be because of Weis's advocacy in the draft war room.

I mean...what does that even mean?

He was his college coach at Notre Dame...his job is to get Clausen PAID...get him to the pros...and then reference that to all of the other recruits he can potentially bring in...

and even if he said that after he got fired from ND...

You really think he'd say something like...

"Meh. He was ok...decent college QB...wish we had something better so I still had my job!"

Chocolate Hog
04-23-2010, 11:25 AM
I think the Vikings are going with Mays personally.

Maybe but Leber is getting old. I think they'd be stupid to draft Clausen for the simple reason they resigned Jackson, gave up picks for Rosenfelds, and have Favre. They are likely to make the super bowl but they do have a few holes. Mays,Bowman, ect can go along way towards a super bowl.

Short Leash Hootie
04-23-2010, 11:26 AM
I was in the same boat, to be fair. I told my brother, "They are definitely making a move for Earl Thomas," when I saw the Eagles had traded up.

well me too but we're not paid professionals

DBOSHO
04-23-2010, 11:26 AM
Im completely spitballing here, but would the rams accept a swap of 2nd and a 4th next year? Maybe a 5th?

Nightfyre
04-23-2010, 11:27 AM
I mean...what does that even mean?

He was his college coach at Notre Dame...his job is to get Clausen PAID...get him to the pros...and then reference that to all of the other recruits he can potentially bring in...

and even if he said that after he got fired from ND...

You really think he'd say something like...

"Meh. He was ok...decent college QB...wish we had something better so I still had my job!"
To be fair, Clausen was the number one HS recruit that year, IIRC.

Short Leash Hootie
04-23-2010, 11:27 AM
you know what scared the Chiefs away?

The last time they had a QB named after pickles (Mark Vlasic), he wasn't so good...

History has a way of repeating itself!

BigRedChief
04-23-2010, 11:28 AM
I mean...what does that even mean?

He was his college coach at Notre Dame...his job is to get Clausen PAID...get him to the pros...and then reference that to all of the other recruits he can potentially bring in...

and even if he said that after he got fired from ND...

You really think he'd say something like...

"Meh. He was ok...decent college QB...wish we had something better so I still had my job!"I understand its his job to promote his college players. He's suppose to do good pr for his players. But there is that other part....I "know" without a shadow of doubt that Weiss is a backer of Claussen within the Cheifs.

Short Leash Hootie
04-23-2010, 11:28 AM
To be fair, Clausen was the number one HS recruit that year, IIRC.

I want him as much, if not more, than anyone...

But I also watched Rick and Casey play and I'm a big fan of DNA...

My #1 red flag...thoughts to myself...was...damn...he's related to Rick and Casey.

DBOSHO
04-23-2010, 11:29 AM
Youre chairlie weis arent you BRC?

GET IT DONE!

Chocolate Hog
04-23-2010, 11:29 AM
I understand its his job to promote his college players. He's suppose to do good pr for his players. But there is that other part....I "know" without a shadow of doubt that Weiss is a backer of Claussen within the Cheifs.

What happend to the Chiefs trading up for Clausen if he was there at twenty? Is there something with clausen we dont know about? Like the toe injury?

beer bacon
04-23-2010, 11:30 AM
That would be ****ing sweet.

I don't want to say it....because I really want to believe Pioli is a smart guy....but if Clausen is there at #36....YOU HAVE TO TAKE HIM.

He's all about competition. Clausen in the 2nd brings competition to the QB spot....and it's cheap.

IMHO drafting starters is insignificant when you have a chance at that lovely competition.

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 11:32 AM
IMHO drafting starters is insignificant when you have a chance at that lovely competition.

If we only had 1 second round pick....then I'd be leary about drafting Clausen.....but we have 2. Grab Clausen at 36 and another starter at 50.

Reaper16
04-23-2010, 11:32 AM
No, what I'm doing is pointing out the hypocrisy of calling people dumbasses when they use Favre, Brady, and Brees as evidence that franchise QBs can be taken outside of round 1 and then turning around and using those same examples as a reason for not giving up on a QB who falls out of the first round.

The fierce and un-nuanced rejection of those who have argued for using the first rounder on another position and considering QB later in the draft has always been excessive and unwarranted.
No, this is a dumbass post, pat. The original dumbass argument, "Favre et al as evidence that franchise QBs can be taken outside of round 1" is stupid. You can't address another position first and then hope that a 1st round-graded QB slides out of the 1st.

You're smarter than this. And if you aren't then my bad for giving you way too much credit.

patteeu
04-23-2010, 11:33 AM
you know what scared the Chiefs away?

The last time they had a QB named after pickles (Mark Vlasic), he wasn't so good...

History has a way of repeating itself!

Not to mention, the last time they had a QB named Clausen (Casey Clausen, Jimmy's less talented older brother who QB'd at Eric Berry's alma mater).

BigRedChief
04-23-2010, 11:34 AM
What happend to the Chiefs trading up for Clausen if he was there at twenty? Is there something with clausen we dont know about? Like the toe injury?who knows? Maybe pioli isn't sold on him? maybe Haley and Crennel want defense? Maybe Clark doesn't like him? The only people that know the exact reason is just those individuals and noone on here has access to those individuals and posts what they say here.

Nightfyre
04-23-2010, 11:35 AM
If Weis has to shit on Pioli's clipboard that contains his big board to get Clausen, he should do it. JMO.

BigRedChief
04-23-2010, 11:36 AM
Youre chairlie weis arent you BRC?

GET IT DONE!
I'm just saying the info I have on Weis's love of Claussen is solid.

milkman
04-23-2010, 11:37 AM
I understand its his job to promote his college players. He's suppose to do good pr for his players. But there is that other part....I "know" without a shadow of doubt that Weiss is a backer of Claussen within the Cheifs.

I imagine you're right.

But one thing I'm fairly sure about.

Weis knows how to spell Clausen.

DBOSHO
04-23-2010, 11:38 AM
I'm just saying the info I have on Weis's love of Claussen is solid.

I 100% trust you and your sources.

Short Leash Hootie
04-23-2010, 11:39 AM
maybe we can resurrect the Clausen trio and get all three?!

QB depth chart:

Jimmy Clausen
Casey Clausen
Damon Huard
Rick Clausen

with Luke Huard on the practice squad and Brock Huard as assistant towel boy/QB fluffer

milkman
04-23-2010, 11:39 AM
Not to mention, the last time they had a QB named Clausen (Casey Clausen, Jimmy's less talented older brother).

But Jimmy Clausen rhymes with Lenny Dawson, so, there's that.

LaChapelle
04-23-2010, 11:39 AM
Sports has columnists not journalists
go with what ever fits their agenda

beer bacon
04-23-2010, 11:40 AM
If we only had 1 second round pick....then I'd be leary about drafting Clausen.....but we have 2. Grab Clausen at 36 and another starter at 50.

The Chiefs need upgrades at OLB, ILB, DT, WR, OL, and TE. Why would we draft a backup in the second round?

patteeu
04-23-2010, 11:40 AM
No, this is a dumbass post, pat. The original dumbass argument, "Favre et al as evidence that franchise QBs can be taken outside of round 1" is stupid. You can't address another position first and then hope that a 1st round-graded QB slides out of the 1st.

You're smarter than this. And if you aren't then my bad for giving you way too much credit.

No, but your post is an example of the kind of thoughtless, emotional reaction that leads to so many of the idiotic flame wars get started over this. You certainly *can* address another position first and then hope that there's a diamond in the rough (capable of becoming a franchise QB) in round 2 or later as long as you recognize that the odds of picking the right piece of rough are declining the longer you wait, as Milkman pointed out.

keg in kc
04-23-2010, 11:41 AM
I imagine you're right.

But one thing I'm fairly sure about.

Weis knows how to spell Clausen.You misunderstand. He's not reporting anything about the draft. Weis wants a new pickle sponsor at Arrowhead.

Der Flöprer
04-23-2010, 11:41 AM
The Chiefs need upgrades at OLB, ILB, DT, WR, OL, and TE. Why would we draft a backup in the second round?

We wouldn't. We'd draft a starter that would replace the backup we traded for last year.

vailpass
04-23-2010, 11:41 AM
IMHO Vikings take Claussen tonight quick fast in a hurry.

Nightfyre
04-23-2010, 11:42 AM
We wouldn't. We'd draft a starter that would replace the backup we traded for last year.

Well played, sir.

JASONSAUTO
04-23-2010, 11:42 AM
You really want to make that argument?

Sincerely,

Drew Brees, Brett Favre and Tom Brady

"any time you spend anything other than a first rounder on a QB is a waste of time and resources"



i wonder who has said that before?

Short Leash Hootie
04-23-2010, 11:42 AM
The Chiefs need upgrades at OLB, ILB, DT, WR, OL, and TE. Why would we draft a backup in the second round?

Here's how we should look at it...

There is no doubt that Jimmy Clausen has franchise QB potential.

There is also no doubt that he has bust potential.

He could have been a top 5 pick...just like Aaron Rodgers, just like Brady Quinn.

The COOL thing is...

We could get him in the 2nd...

and pay him less than you'd have to pay a backup like Jeff Garcia or Kerry Collins.

So we could draft a potential franchise QB who, if he busts, does NOTHING to set back this franchise...

Basically...

It's like trading for Cassel and paying him $8M rather than $60M...but Clausen actually has potential.

RedThat
04-23-2010, 11:43 AM
I mean...what does that even mean?

He was his college coach at Notre Dame...his job is to get Clausen PAID...get him to the pros...and then reference that to all of the other recruits he can potentially bring in...

and even if he said that after he got fired from ND...

You really think he'd say something like...

"Meh. He was ok...decent college QB...wish we had something better so I still had my job!"

Well, first off, its rare anybody or coach for that matter will come out and say those things.

I'd like to say there is a flip side to what you're saying here. His job is to also help the Chiefs and make them better. If he really believes this is the kid that could make this team more competitive down the road then I could see why he is lobby hard for him and trying to convince Pioli and co he should be the pick. I think that is where his main thoughts and intentions lie.

*Now, I don't feel confident he will overrule Pioli since he has less power in the organization. That is what sucks if you really think about it? On the other hand, we are grateful Clausen dropped this far and I only say that from a financial perspective since I couldn't see the Chiefs investing multi million dollar contracts into two QBs. From a money point of view Clausen works in the chiefs favor. He also works in their favor because he will be the best possible value if he is there when they pick. Hopefully, nobody takes him before us.

milkman
04-23-2010, 11:43 AM
You misunderstand. He's not reporting anything about the draft. Weis wants a new pickle sponsor at Arrowhead.

Oh, well, okay then.

My bad.

Chiefnj2
04-23-2010, 11:46 AM
Kirwin has Clausen going to KC at the #50 pick in his latest 2nd day mock.

RedThat
04-23-2010, 11:46 AM
Kirwin has Clausen going to KC at the #50 pick in his latest 2nd day mock.

I'll be shocked if he falls that low

Short Leash Hootie
04-23-2010, 11:46 AM
I would be confused and LESS happy if we got him at 50 opposed to 36...

that would really mean we don't know something

DeezNutz
04-23-2010, 11:47 AM
If we only had 1 second round pick....then I'd be leary about drafting Clausen.....but we have 2. Grab Clausen at 36 and another starter at 50.

Why?

I wanted Clausen at #5 overall, and I sure as hell want him at #36. This would be an absolute steal.

Draft the QB, Scott. Please.

patteeu
04-23-2010, 11:47 AM
Here's how we should look at it...

There is no doubt that Jimmy Clausen has franchise QB potential.

There is also no doubt that he has bust potential.

He could have been a top 5 pick...just like Aaron Rodgers, just like Brady Quinn.

The COOL thing is...

We could get him in the 2nd...

and pay him less than you'd have to pay a backup like Jeff Garcia or Kerry Collins.

So we could draft a potential franchise QB who, if he busts, does NOTHING to set back this franchise...

Basically...

It's like trading for Cassel and paying him $8M rather than $60M...but Clausen actually has potential.

This is a strong argument, IMO.

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 11:47 AM
Kirwin has Clausen going to KC at the #50 pick in his latest 2nd day mock.

Fucking hell. I damn sure don't see him falling that far. I'd love for it to happen....but it's not going to.

BigRedChief
04-23-2010, 11:48 AM
From a money point of view Clausen works in the chiefs favor. He also works in their favor because he will be the best possible value if he is there when they pick.Moot point. The Chiefs can cut Cassel next year without having one dime count against the cap in 2011. We won't have two large QB contracts draggin us down.

Nightfyre
04-23-2010, 11:48 AM
I would prefer Clausen at 33. Enough of this giving me heart attacks BS as teams trade up.... I about stroked out when the Broncos traded back up into the first.

KChiefs1
04-23-2010, 11:50 AM
There seemingly is a report on ESPN insider that KC has offered their two #2s and a 3rd round pick to jump to #33 and take Clausen.

Came from the St Louis Post-Dispatch site

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2010, 11:50 AM
Here's how we should look at it...

There is no doubt that Jimmy Clausen has franchise QB potential.

There is also no doubt that he has bust potential.

He could have been a top 5 pick...just like Aaron Rodgers, just like Brady Quinn.

The COOL thing is...

We could get him in the 2nd...

and pay him less than you'd have to pay a backup like Jeff Garcia or Kerry Collins.

So we could draft a potential franchise QB who, if he busts, does NOTHING to set back this franchise...

Basically...

It's like trading for Cassel and paying him $8M rather than $60M...but Clausen actually has potential.

Excellent post. Rep.

Nightfyre
04-23-2010, 11:51 AM
There seemingly is a report on ESPN insider that KC has offered their two #2s and a 3rd round pick to jump to #33 and take Clausen.

Came from the St Louis Post-Dispatch site

ROFL

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 11:51 AM
There seemingly is a report on ESPN insider that KC has offered their two #2s and a 3rd round pick to jump to #33 and take Clausen.

Came from the St Louis Post-Dispatch site

That's a fucking retarded trade. That much for 3 spots? WTF!?

Short Leash Hootie
04-23-2010, 11:51 AM
There seemingly is a report on ESPN insider that KC has offered their two #2s and a 3rd round pick to jump to #33 and take Clausen.

Came from the St Louis Post-Dispatch site

Steep price but other than day 2 being over before it started...would anyone really be that disappointed?

You know who the big winners out of all of this is?

St. Louis.

They got a WHOLE night to leverage Jimmy Clausen...after taking Sam Bradford...and are now going to make a KILLING on #33...

BigRedChief
04-23-2010, 11:51 AM
There seemingly is a report on ESPN insider that KC has offered their two #2s and a 3rd round pick to jump to #33 and take Clausen.

Came from the St Louis Post-Dispatch siteI call BS. A 4th round pick value and we give up that, no frikkin way.

Nightfyre
04-23-2010, 11:51 AM
That's a ****ing retarded trade. That much for 3 spots? WTF!?

I assumed it was a joke. :shrug:

TheGuardian
04-23-2010, 11:52 AM
****ing hell. I damn sure don't see him falling that far. I'd love for it to happen....but it's not going to.

If someone told you he'd fall out of the entire first round what would your response have been?

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2010, 11:52 AM
There seemingly is a report on ESPN insider that KC has offered their two #2s and a 3rd round pick to jump to #33 and take Clausen.

Came from the St Louis Post-Dispatch site

Nuthooks on the way.

They could have moved into the 1st last night for less than half of those picks.

Short Leash Hootie
04-23-2010, 11:52 AM
That's a ****ing retarded trade. That much for 3 spots? WTF!?

but if that's what it took for Clausen...and that's the only way we could get him...

would you do it?

I know I would.

Chocolate Hog
04-23-2010, 11:53 AM
There seemingly is a report on ESPN insider that KC has offered their two #2s and a 3rd round pick to jump to #33 and take Clausen.

Came from the St Louis Post-Dispatch site

Wow thats alot.

BigRedChief
04-23-2010, 11:53 AM
Steep price but other than day 2 being over before it started...would anyone really be that disappointed?

You know who the big winners out of all of this is?

St. Louis.

They got a WHOLE night to leverage Jimmy Clausen...after taking Sam Bradford...and are now going to make a KILLING on #33...yeah I bet they will get way above standard value for the pick.

Short Leash Hootie
04-23-2010, 11:54 AM
Nuthooks on the way.

They could have moved into the 1st last night for less than half of those picks.

could this be the first con to only have one round on day 1?

St. Louis gets 20 hours or so to leverage all of the QB needy teams against one another...

and New Orleans already had Drew Brees making their pick at #32...they were basically trapped into making that pick no matter what...is Brees going to call the pick for the Chiefs at #32?

AND

could you imagine sitting through a 3 hour draft and waiting for your favorite team to pick and then watch them trade out of the 1st round like the Vikings?

I'll be honest...I'd be annoyed.

DJ's left nut
04-23-2010, 11:56 AM
Here's how we should look at it...

There is no doubt that Jimmy Clausen has franchise QB potential.

There is also no doubt that he has bust potential.

He could have been a top 5 pick...just like Aaron Rodgers, just like Brady Quinn.

The COOL thing is...

We could get him in the 2nd...

and pay him less than you'd have to pay a backup like Jeff Garcia or Kerry Collins.

So we could draft a potential franchise QB who, if he busts, does NOTHING to set back this franchise...

Basically...

It's like trading for Cassel and paying him $8M rather than $60M...but Clausen actually has potential.

Not exactly.

You're ignoring the opportunity cost. The problem with Cassel was less the money we gave him (it ain't my money), but the 2nd rounder we gave up for that worthless piece of trash.

If Clausen busts, we've now burned another extremely high 2nd rounder on a bad QB.

Now, I don't think that will happen. I said in the 'tradeup' thread what I'd give for him and I think I'd give a fair amount. I like the kid and think he's the real deal.

But lets not act like there's no risk here, there absolutely is.

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2010, 11:56 AM
could this be the first con to only have one round on day 1?

St. Louis gets 20 hours or so to leverage all of the QB needy teams against one another...

and New Orleans already had Drew Brees making their pick at #32...they were basically trapped into making that pick no matter what...is Brees going to call the pick for the Chiefs at #32?

AND

could you imagine sitting through a 3 hour draft and waiting for your favorite team to pick and then watch them trade out of the 1st round like the Vikings?

I'll be honest...I'd be annoyed.

I'm not a fan of the format, but it's not going anywhere, so I just have to accept it.

milkman
04-23-2010, 11:57 AM
but if that's what it took for Clausen...and that's the only way we could get him...

would you do it?

I know I would.

If you hadn't already proven your idiocy, this would have done it.

McDumbass in Denver would be laughing at Pioli's moronacy.

DBOSHO
04-23-2010, 11:58 AM
I gotta say, as much as i want claussen, not that bad. Id maybe be willing to give a 3rd, but not an additional 2nd

Reaper16
04-23-2010, 11:58 AM
No, but your post is an example of the kind of thoughtless, emotional reaction that leads to so many of the idiotic flame wars get started over this. You certainly *can* address another position first and then hope that there's a diamond in the rough (capable of becoming a franchise QB) in round 2 or later as long as you recognize that the odds of picking the right piece of rough are declining the longer you wait, as Milkman pointed out.
Thoughtless? No. Emotional? Its getting that way thanks to your unadulterated idiocy. There is no hoping. If you've scouted a mid-round guy and think he projects to be a starter then that's fine. That's a different thing, though, than any discussion that has been going on in this thread and it sounds to be a different thing than you're railing against people for being hypocritical about.

1st round talent QBs are by far the most likely candidates to be franchise guys. Unless you really trust your scouts on a certain lower-round guy then it is a waste of resources, typically, to go against that line of thought.

And, just to clarify, it isn't the round itself that makes the QB. It is what round his talents projected him to be drafted in. Just because Clausen (or Favre, etc) was taken in the second doesn't make him a second-round talent.

Bill Lundberg
04-23-2010, 11:58 AM
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/343358413/josh_biopic_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/JoshLooney) JoshLooney (http://twitter.com/JoshLooney)
so many other needs...if clausen comes to kc, then weis truly loves the kid RT @pauleberry (http://twitter.com/pauleberry): @JoshLooney (http://twitter.com/JoshLooney) Jimmy Clausen is going to play LB?

Der Flöprer
04-23-2010, 11:59 AM
What an epic fuck up that would be to give up all those picks when we could've just secured him last night for a 3rd fucking round pick. I don't buy that at all.

Mr. Laz
04-23-2010, 11:59 AM
the Vikings are walking a thin line with the prima donna Favre ... i don't see them drafting a QB and risk pissing him off. The only thing between the Chiefs and Clausen is a trade up.

Can Pioli get enough information to know whether he has to trade up? Does he have that kind of pull? Can he have Belicheck call and inquire about a trade up to see if anything is cooking?

maybe Pioli can make the Rams an offer they "can't refuse"

SenselessChiefsFan
04-23-2010, 11:59 AM
Nuthooks on the way.

They could have moved into the 1st last night for less than half of those picks.

Maybe he is so sick of Weis' nagging that he is willing to do it just to shut him up.

If the Chiefs trade up to get him, I will be annoyed. I have just come to accept that if they take him at #36, it would be okay...... not great. I think it is a mistake, but it is a second round mistake. If they gave up that much..... it would totally undo the joy I feel for Berry.

beer bacon
04-23-2010, 11:59 AM
yeah I bet they will get way above standard value for the pick.

Which is why KC should stay away.

RedThat
04-23-2010, 12:00 PM
the Vikings are walking a thin line with the prima donna Favre ... i don't see them drafting a QB and risk pissing him off. The only thing between the Chiefs and Clausen is a trade up.

Can Pioli get enough information to know whether he has to trade up? Does he have that kind of pull? Can he have Belicheck call and inquire about a trade up to see if anything is cooking?

maybe Pioli can make the Rams an offer they "can't refuse"

Hey that sounds Godfatherish!....ROFL

DaWolf
04-23-2010, 12:01 PM
Handicapping the field for Clausen (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/23/handicapping-the-field-for-clausen/)
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on April 23, 2010 12:53 PM ET
We don't expect the Jimmy Clausen drama to last long on day two of the draft. Here's our list of favorites to wind up with the Notre Dame product.

1. Bills: There are conflicting reports about their eagerness to trade up. No surprise. But they want to draft a quarterback and multiple reports say they were in on Tim Tebow. It makes a lot of sense they'd get Tebow.

2. Seahawks: Greg Bedard of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel writes that Seattle would have definitely taken Clausen at 14 if Earl Thomas didn't slip. If that's true, they are great candidates to move up to take Clausen now. They have to move up a long way, though, after sliding down to pick No. 60 in the Charlie Whitehurst trade.

3. Raiders: We liked the Rolondo McClain pick. It made sense and filled a need. Taking Clausen would make a lot of sense too. Too much sense to happen?

4. 49ers: The strong pre-draft links to Clausen proved false. They might have to move a long way up to get Clausen at No. 47, but it would be a nice option for San Francisco.

5. Browns: Mr. Michael Smith of ESPN has been on target with all things Browns -- he stuck with Joe Haden -- and he thinks the Browns will look to fill bigger needs than quarterback.

6. Vikings: Trading down out of the first round indicates Clausen isn't a priority. We think they are a good match, though.

7. Panthers: A couple factors are in the way here. They don't have a lot of ammo to trade, with and they don't have a coach that is likely thinking long-term.

8. Chiefs: We're not buying it. Perhaps they floated love for Clausen as a favor to Charlie Weis.

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 12:01 PM
:grovel:

2a. Jimmy Clausen
2b. Linval Joseph
3. Donald Butler

Short Leash Hootie
04-23-2010, 12:01 PM
If you hadn't already proven your idiocy, this would have done it.

McDumbass in Denver would be laughing at Pioli's moronacy.

95% of this board would approve of our draft if we came away with just two players...and those two players were Berry and Clausen.

eazyb81
04-23-2010, 12:02 PM
the Vikings are walking a thin line with the prima donna Favre ... i don't see them drafting a QB and risk pissing him off. The only thing between the Chiefs and Clausen is a trade up.

Can Pioli get enough information to know whether he has to trade up? Does he have that kind of pull? Can he have Belicheck call and inquire about a trade up to see if anything is cooking?

maybe Pioli can make the Rams an offer they "can't refuse"

Heh, that would be funny.

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 12:02 PM
8. Chiefs: We're not buying it. Perhaps they floated love for Clausen as a favor to Charlie Weis.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The Chiefs floated their love for Clausen as a favor to Weis?

beer bacon
04-23-2010, 12:02 PM
95% of this board would approve of our draft if we came away with just two players...and those two players were Berry and Clausen.

No they wouldn't.

Mr. Laz
04-23-2010, 12:03 PM
"the calls to the Rams so far have been moderate" Clayton

TheGuardian
04-23-2010, 12:03 PM
If we pass on Clausen at 2A that kid is seriously fucked up. Weis would know.

Short Leash Hootie
04-23-2010, 12:03 PM
No they wouldn't.

I forgot about saccadipshit and his band of morons that wanted to emulate San Francisco's draft...

beer bacon
04-23-2010, 12:03 PM
Pioli and Haley will be burned alive if they traded away the rest of our draft to move up three spots in the second round.

TheGuardian
04-23-2010, 12:04 PM
Pioli and Haley will be burned alive if they trade away the rest of our draft to move up three spots in the second round.

As well they should. Clausen isn't a franchise QB.

DJ's left nut
04-23-2010, 12:04 PM
Handicapping the field for Clausen (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/23/handicapping-the-field-for-clausen/)
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on April 23, 2010 12:53 PM ET
We don't expect the Jimmy Clausen drama to last long on day two of the draft. Here's our list of favorites to wind up with the Notre Dame product.

1. Bills: There are conflicting reports about their eagerness to trade up. No surprise. But they want to draft a quarterback and multiple reports say they were in on Tim Tebow. It makes a lot of sense they'd get Tebow.

2. Seahawks: Greg Bedard of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel writes that Seattle would have definitely taken Clausen at 14 if Earl Thomas didn't slip. If that's true, they are great candidates to move up to take Clausen now. They have to move up a long way, though, after sliding down to pick No. 60 in the Charlie Whitehurst trade.

3. Raiders: We liked the Rolondo McClain pick. It made sense and filled a need. Taking Clausen would make a lot of sense too. Too much sense to happen?

4. 49ers: The strong pre-draft links to Clausen proved false. They might have to move a long way up to get Clausen at No. 47, but it would be a nice option for San Francisco.

5. Browns: Mr. Michael Smith of ESPN has been on target with all things Browns -- he stuck with Joe Haden -- and he thinks the Browns will look to fill bigger needs than quarterback.

6. Vikings: Trading down out of the first round indicates Clausen isn't a priority. We think they are a good match, though.

7. Panthers: A couple factors are in the way here. They don't have a lot of ammo to trade, with and they don't have a coach that is likely thinking long-term.

8. Chiefs: We're not buying it. Perhaps they floated love for Clausen as a favor to Charlie Weis.


At this point I honestly don't give a wet fart what the national heads say about the Chiefs.

These guys know absolutely nothing about what's going on in here. Hell, Conoforia said the pick was almost certainly Okung no more than 5 seconds before Berry's phone rang.

They're clueless. Fuck 'em.

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 12:04 PM
Any chance that Washington packages a pick with Haynesworth to the Rams for #33?

SenselessChiefsFan
04-23-2010, 12:06 PM
95% of this board would approve of our draft if we came away with just two players...and those two players were Berry and Clausen.

Going into the draft, I think there were some people that were that ignorant. However, after watching Clausen drop, most realize that he was way over-rated in here.

Even if they still believe in Clausen, the price to move up would be ignorant, and the key to drafting is getting value and maximizing the draft picks.

Mr. Laz
04-23-2010, 12:06 PM
95% of this board would approve of our draft if we came away with just two players...and those two players were Berry and Clausen.
no


the 2nd round is gold ... we need talent

1. S Eric Berry
2a. QB Clausen
2b. WR/KR Tate
3. NT Cam Thomas
4. S Morgan Burnett
5a. C Matt tennant
5b. WR Jordan Shipley

other 5th rounder traded to move up 3 spots to grab Clausen

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 12:06 PM
I'm starting to think this is going to happen.

Browns (f/ Rams) - McCoy, QB
Vikings - Mays, S
Bucs - Benn, WR
Chiefs - Clausen, QB

BigRedChief
04-23-2010, 12:08 PM
I'm starting to think this is going to happen.

Browns (f/ Rams) - McCoy, QB
Vikings - Mays, S
Bucs - Benn, WR
Chiefs - Clausen, QBBucs could take Tate. Vikes could take Clausen.

DaWolf
04-23-2010, 12:09 PM
I'm starting to think this is going to happen.

Browns (f/ Rams) - McCoy, QB
Vikings - Mays, S
Bucs - Benn, WR
Chiefs - Clausen, QB

That would be way too good of a scenario to happen to Chiefs fans. :)

If Clausen is there when we pick and we don't take him, Weis must know something. I can't imagine we'd pass on his guy in the 2nd round. That has to be the BPA on their board...

the Talking Can
04-23-2010, 12:10 PM
Here's how we should look at it...

There is no doubt that Jimmy Clausen has franchise QB potential.

There is also no doubt that he has bust potential.

He could have been a top 5 pick...just like Aaron Rodgers, just like Brady Quinn.

The COOL thing is...

We could get him in the 2nd...

and pay him less than you'd have to pay a backup like Jeff Garcia or Kerry Collins.

So we could draft a potential franchise QB who, if he busts, does NOTHING to set back this franchise...

Basically...

It's like trading for Cassel and paying him $8M rather than $60M...but Clausen actually has potential.

this


you're getting a shot at a franchise QB for like 80% off....

sooner or later we will have to actually draft one no matter how much it pisses people off....

BigRedChief
04-23-2010, 12:10 PM
That would be way too good of a scenario to happen to Chiefs fans. :)

If Clausen is there when we pick and we don't take him, Weis must know something. I can't imagine we'd pass on his guy in the 2nd round. That has to be the BPA on their board...Again, if we don't take Clausen it won't be because Weis didn't totally vouch for him. It will be because the others in the room arn't sold on Clausen.

milkman
04-23-2010, 12:11 PM
95% of this board would approve of our draft if we came away with just two players...and those two players were Berry and Clausen.

Even if you throw out the True Fan vote, I doubt you'd get a 95% approval rating for that.

That trade scenario is just too stupid to contemplate.

BigMeatballDave
04-23-2010, 12:11 PM
no


the 2nd round is gold ... we need talent

1. S Eric Berry
2a. QB Clausen
2b. WR/KR Tate
3. NT Cam Thomas
4. S Morgan Burnett
5a. C Matt tennant
5b. WR Jordan Shipley

other 5th rounder traded to move up 3 spots to grab ClausenNo LBs? An extra safety? An extra WR?

the Talking Can
04-23-2010, 12:11 PM
There seemingly is a report on ESPN insider that KC has offered their two #2s and a 3rd round pick to jump to #33 and take Clausen.

Came from the St Louis Post-Dispatch site

that's retarded....it won'r cost a fraction of that.

milkman
04-23-2010, 12:12 PM
this


you're getting a shot at a franchise QB for like 80% off....

sooner or later we will have to actually draft one no matter how much it pisses people off....

The question is, would you trade both seconds and third to move up 3 spots to pick him?

Detoxing
04-23-2010, 12:12 PM
I'm starting to think this is going to happen.

Browns (f/ Rams) - McCoy, QB
Vikings - Mays, S
Bucs - Benn, WR
Chiefs - Clausen, QB

Makes sense to me.

milkman
04-23-2010, 12:13 PM
that's retarded....it won'r cost a fraction of that.

Question answered.

notorious
04-23-2010, 12:13 PM
that's retarded....it won'r cost a fraction of that.

This.


That reporter needs to fuck a pineapple.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-23-2010, 12:14 PM
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The Chiefs floated their love for Clausen as a favor to Weis?

Not a stretch in my mind. Weis was Clausen's head coach, and most head coaches try to help their players out as much as possible. If Weis publicly criticized him, it would hurt him more than the Gruden interview. Just a thought.

patteeu
04-23-2010, 12:14 PM
Thoughtless? No. Emotional? Its getting that way thanks to your unadulterated idiocy. There is no hoping. If you've scouted a mid-round guy and think he projects to be a starter then that's fine. That's a different thing, though, than any discussion that has been going on in this thread and it sounds to be a different thing than you're railing against people for being hypocritical about.

1st round talent QBs are by far the most likely candidates to be franchise guys. Unless you really trust your scouts on a certain lower-round guy then it is a waste of resources, typically, to go against that line of thought.

And, just to clarify, it isn't the round itself that makes the QB. It is what round his talents projected him to be drafted in. Just because Clausen (or Favre, etc) was taken in the second doesn't make him a second-round talent.

You can't possibly be serious with your "there is no hoping" statement. Of course there is. If there weren't, teams wouldn't have half of their draft picks bust or otherwise underwhelm. Scouting has improved over the years, but it's still an art or a very inexact science. You never know for sure what a guy's draft value was until after their career is either established or over and by then it's too late.

Mr. Laz
04-23-2010, 12:16 PM
No LBs? An extra safety? An extra WR?
no LB hurts

another safety is a good thing imo, Page hasn't signed his tender and i'm not sure how much the Chiefs care.

extra WR but also is KR ... Haley doesn't want problems at WR or with the Return game again this year.

Detoxing
04-23-2010, 12:16 PM
Bucs could take Tate. Vikes could take Clausen.

Vikes are in a win Now mode, not win later. I fully expect them to pick someone who can start right away and contribute right away. They already have young project QB's in Rosenfell (Sp) and Jackson.

Taylor Mays is the pick. I could also see them going Sean Lee. Maybe even reach for a CB? Trade down with the browns is possibly, but I think Mccoy would fall to them anyway.

Short Leash Hootie
04-23-2010, 12:16 PM
Question answered.

Well I'd probably be the worst GM ever...I'm not arguing that...

but at this point...

if that's what it takes for a Berry/Clausen tandem...then that's what it takes...

DJ's left nut
04-23-2010, 12:16 PM
Bucs could take Tate. Vikes could take Clausen.

Buff could easily move up into the Bucs slot as well.

Buffalo scares me far more than Seattle. Seattle gave up a bunch to get Whitehurst and they still need a HB.

It's Buffalo or Minnesota. I'm starting to shy away from Minn. taking him because they're just too close to a championship to do it, especially when next year's supposed to have a deep QB draft and they claim to like Jackson.

Keep an eye on the Bills.

Tribal Warfare
04-23-2010, 12:16 PM
This.


That reporter needs to fuck a pineapple.


which the reporter should receive rectally

SenselessChiefsFan
04-23-2010, 12:17 PM
Again, if we don't take Clausen it won't be because Weis didn't totally vouch for him. It will be because the others in the room arn't sold on Clausen.

Sorry, but if Weis believes he is a franchise QB, you don't pass on him. I don't think that he feels that way.

If he is sitting there saying that he is the real deal, then I can't see Pioli ignoring him.

DJ's left nut
04-23-2010, 12:17 PM
Vikes are in a win Now mode, not win later. I fully expect them to pick someone who can start right away and contribute right away. They already have young project QB's in Rosenfell (Sp) and Jackson.

Taylor Mays is the pick. I could also see them going Sean Lee. Maybe even reach for a CB? Trade down with the browns is possibly, but I think Mccoy would fall to them anyway.

Fuckin' A, I made a sig!

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 12:19 PM
Buff could easily move up into the Bucs slot as well.

Buffalo scares me far more than Seattle. Seattle gave up a bunch to get Whitehurst and they still need a HB.

It's Buffalo or Minnesota. I'm starting to shy away from Minn. taking him because they're just too close to a championship to do it, especially when next year's supposed to have a deep QB draft and they claim to like Jackson.

Keep an eye on the Bills.

I'd be on the phone with Buffalo about Croyle.

milkman
04-23-2010, 12:19 PM
Well I'd probably be the worst GM ever...I'm not arguing that...

but at this point...

if that's what it takes for a Berry/Clausen tandem...then that's what it takes...

If that is what it takes, you move on.

You don't make that trade.

If the Chiefs had actually made that offer, I guaratee you we'd be talking about a done deal, not speculation.

Even if the Rams are the dumbest fuckers in the NFL, they aren't too stupid to pass that up.

That kind of offer is Pioli bending over, while holding Clark Hunt, Todd Haley, Charlie Weis and the office secretaries in a bent over position so that the Rams can have their way.

patteeu
04-23-2010, 12:20 PM
If we pass on Clausen at 2A that kid is seriously ****ed up. Weis would know.

Or else Pioli (and possibly Haley) have a lot of confidence in Cassel, which is a bit hard to believe at this point.

DaWolf
04-23-2010, 12:21 PM
Again, if we don't take Clausen it won't be because Weis didn't totally vouch for him. It will be because the others in the room arn't sold on Clausen.

Perhaps. In that case, it indicates that Weis probably has very little pull in the organization, and that he's probably not on the short list if Haley fails like some have speculated. It also means that Haley really likes Croyle as an alternative to Cassel.

Or, it could mean that they have someone targeted in the 4th or 5th that they really like (speculation out there about Lefevour)..

BigRedChief
04-23-2010, 12:21 PM
Sorry, but if Weis believes he is a franchise QB, you don't pass on him. I don't think that he feels that way.Thats okay you are entitled to your own opinion. But, which one of us has been right on with our information on the Planet and who has never posted any information, just opinons?
Discuss
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_TzorWGX-a9A/SXZ7x1oRuLI/AAAAAAAAGI8/gYglq8Qc24c/s400/SNL-Coffee-Talk_l.jpg

Short Leash Hootie
04-23-2010, 12:21 PM
If that is what it takes, you move on.

You don't make that trade.

If the Chiefs had actually made that offer, I guaratee you we'd be talking about a done deal, not speculation.

Even if the Rams are the dumbest ****ers in the NFL, they aren't too stupid to pass that up.

That kind of offer is Pioli bending over, while holding Clark Hunt, Todd Haley, Charlie Weis and the office secretaries in a bent over position so that the Rams can have their way.

I don't disagree at all...

Can't wait for 5 PM...

My pipe dream might come true...not very often pipe dreams come true.

Detoxing
04-23-2010, 12:21 PM
If that is what it takes, you move on.

You don't make that trade.

If the Chiefs had actually made that offer, I guaratee you we'd be talking about a done deal, not speculation.

Even if the Rams are the dumbest ****ers in the NFL, they aren't too stupid to pass that up.

That kind of offer is Pioli bending over, while holding Clark Hunt, Todd Haley, Charlie Weis and the office secretaries in a bent over position so that the Rams can have their way.

This. I would be PISSED if we traded both seconds to move up 3 spots in the 2nd rnd fuck that.

A 4th. That's it.

the Talking Can
04-23-2010, 12:21 PM
reposting myself, last word on clausen

"you could have had him last night for a 4th, maybe even a swap in round 3 and a 5th


which is why I don't think the Chiefs are serious about him unless he drops in their lap and then maybe...."

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 12:22 PM
<---------------------

Reaper16
04-23-2010, 12:23 PM
You can't possibly be serious with your "there is no hoping" statement. Of course there is. If there weren't, teams wouldn't have half of their draft picks bust or otherwise underwhelm. Scouting has improved over the years, but it's still an art or a very inexact science. You never know for sure what a guy's draft value was until after their career is either established or over and by then it's too late.
Of fucking course you don't know how good a player is going to be until they're done playing. Draft value (a term that you are grossly misusing) is about projections and scouting (which is inexact, you are correct about that); it is not revisionist history.

DJ's left nut
04-23-2010, 12:23 PM
I'd be on the phone with Buffalo about Croyle.

This keeps coming up.

Someone enlighten me - has Buffalo expressed an interest in Croyle?

Because I've never gotten the impression that Croyle has any value in the league. Did some report come out indicating that this is incorrect?

SenselessChiefsFan
04-23-2010, 12:24 PM
Thats okay you are entitled to your own opinion. But, which one of us has been right on with our information on the Planet and who has never posted any information, just opinons?
Discuss
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_TzorWGX-a9A/SXZ7x1oRuLI/AAAAAAAAGI8/gYglq8Qc24c/s400/SNL-Coffee-Talk_l.jpg

Thats true, I am honest and don't claim to have sources.

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 12:24 PM
This keeps coming up.

Someone enlighten me - has Buffalo expressed an interest in Croyle?

Because I've never gotten the impression that Croyle has any value in the league. Did some report come out indicating that this is incorrect?

No...I'm just assuming that maybe Gailey would like to have a QB that he's worked with before.

It's mainly me just talking out of my ass.

Mr. Laz
04-23-2010, 12:24 PM
From what we've seen from Pioli thus far he probably won't trade up for anyone. He is a extremely conservative "play the hand your dealt" type guy.

Pats traded down all over the place yesterday without Pioli so apparently Belicheck is the trade guy.

Not saying Pioli won't trade down if he gets into a mid 1st round situation. Trading down from #5 is much harder.

patteeu
04-23-2010, 12:27 PM
If that is what it takes, you move on.

You don't make that trade.

If the Chiefs had actually made that offer, I guaratee you we'd be talking about a done deal, not speculation.

Even if the Rams are the dumbest ****ers in the NFL, they aren't too stupid to pass that up.

That kind of offer is Pioli bending over, while holding Clark Hunt, Todd Haley, Charlie Weis and the office secretaries in a bent over position so that the Rams can have their way.

That sounds about right.

milkman
04-23-2010, 12:27 PM
From what we've seen from Pioli thus far he probably won't trade up for anyone. He is a extremely conservative "play the hand your dealt" type guy.

Pats traded down all over the place yesterday without Pioli so apparently Belicheck is the trade guy.

Not saying Pioli won't trade down if he gets into a mid 1st round situation. Trading down from #5 is much harder.

Pioli has talked about wanting to trade, he just hasn't yet shown any ability to get anything done, other than that sorryass 7th round trade last year.

Tribal Warfare
04-23-2010, 12:28 PM
This keeps coming up.

Someone enlighten me - has Buffalo expressed an interest in Croyle?

Because I've never gotten the impression that Croyle has any value in the league. Did some report come out indicating that this is incorrect?

One of the "reports" have said that Buffalo was considering a 3rd round pick straight up for Croyle, of course that has altered.

dirk digler
04-23-2010, 12:29 PM
If that is what it takes, you move on.

You don't make that trade.

If the Chiefs had actually made that offer, I guaratee you we'd be talking about a done deal, not speculation.

Even if the Rams are the dumbest fuckers in the NFL, they aren't too stupid to pass that up.

That kind of offer is Pioli bending over, while holding Clark Hunt, Todd Haley, Charlie Weis and the office secretaries in a bent over position so that the Rams can have their way.

LMAO

patteeu
04-23-2010, 12:30 PM
Of ****ing course you don't know how good a player is going to be until they're done playing. Draft value (a term that you are grossly misusing) is about projections and scouting (which is inexact, you are correct about that); it is not revisionist history.

Which is exactly why "there is no hoping" is such a nonsensical thing to say. Of course some "hoping" is involved because you're dealing with projections that are inherently inexact, not known quantities. You're speaking out of two sides of your mouth.

Reaper16
04-23-2010, 12:43 PM
Which is exactly why "there is no hoping" is such a nonsensical thing to say. Of course some "hoping" is involved because you're dealing with projections that are inherently inexact, not known quantities. You're speaking out of two sides of your mouth.
Scenario:
You have a QB that you (and presumably most other teams) have rated as a 1st rounder. You decide to pass on him, even though you need a QB, to address another position, hoping (and by hoping I could also use words like "betting" or "banking") that the QB is going to fall into the second round?

That is really dumb. You can entertain the drop as a possible-though-unrealistic scenario but you can't just plan on hoping for the best. I mean, you can but it'd be stupid to do that.

Tribal Warfare
04-23-2010, 01:08 PM
Thats true, I am honest and don't claim to have sources.

Are you calling him a liar?

SenselessChiefsFan
04-23-2010, 01:12 PM
Are you calling him a liar?

I have no idea if he is lying. But, there are a lot of guys on here that have 'sources'. You would think that if they were so connected, they wouldn't be slumming around on a message board.... even one as nice as this one.

Tribal Warfare
04-23-2010, 01:13 PM
I have no idea if he is lying. But, there are a lot of guys on here that have 'sources'. You would think that if they were so connected, they wouldn't be slumming around on a message board.... even one as nice as this one.


you are then, that's all I needed to know

Dicky McElephant
04-23-2010, 01:15 PM
I have no idea if he is lying. But, there are a lot of guys on here that have 'sources'. You would think that if they were so connected, they wouldn't be slumming around on a message board.... even one as nice as this one.

Do you think people with 'sources' are locked up in an office and they never talk to anybody in the outside world?

J Diddy
04-23-2010, 01:18 PM
Without reading this thread (mostly because I'm lazy) do you think clausen falls to us or someone trades up to jump us because they know weiss has an amazing boner for him? And if he does fall do we pick him or do we trade down to someone who covets him?

J Diddy
04-23-2010, 01:19 PM
Do you think people with 'sources' are locked up in an office and they never talk to anybody in the outside world?

My sources are locked up in an office and I don't let them talk to anyone. Makes me wonder where they get all this valuable information.