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Mecca
04-24-2010, 12:59 AM
I guess no one learned their lesson from this time last year, when everyone said that coaching alone would result in at least 7-8 wins - and that Pendergast would be a huge improvement over Gunther.

Every offseason, it's that same song and dance and people still buy it.

Rausch
04-24-2010, 12:59 AM
our lb core is pretty much all ass

This.

And what makes me sick is how the Steelers manage a ROTY every draft in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round.

Mostly OLB's.

You know, in the rounds we drafted Gary Coleman and fucking Webster...

OnTheWarpath58
04-24-2010, 01:00 AM
But so was safety, nickel, offensive line, tight end and the return game before today.

They just have too many fucking holes.

Yeah, they do.

Unfortunately, they decided to fill the least important ones.

Please don't think that getting another nickle CB, TE and KR is more important that a front 7 player in a 3-4 defense.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-24-2010, 01:00 AM
This.

And what makes me sick is how the Steelers manage a ROTY every draft in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round.

Mostly OLB's.

You know, in the rounds we drafted Gary Coleman and fucking Webster...

LMAO

Reaper16
04-24-2010, 01:00 AM
I don't get the talk about the "True Fans" and the "Drafturbators" are reversing roles. The True Fans are acting exactly like they always do -- they submit wholly to authority.

McCluster was a gamechanger in college, true. In order to be that in the NFL he will need to learn how to run a full gamut of routes from the slot. Is he a project capable of learning? Yes, I believe that he is. But is he a project worth spending the 36th overall pick when you could have addressed glaring defensive needs w/ 1st round talent (not to mention picking up a #1 QB or a fringe-#1/great-#2 WR)? I strongly feel that he's not worth the pick over the other, better (or as good at the least) options that were available.

I mean this in a totally constructive criticism way: most of you guys sound just like KnowMo in this thread.

L.A. Chieffan
04-24-2010, 01:01 AM
MCCLUSTER WILL OWN. WE SHOULDVE TRADED UP AND TAKEN HIM IN THE FIRST

Mecca
04-24-2010, 01:02 AM
I don't get the talk about the "True Fans" and the "Drafturbators" are reversing roles. The True Fans are acting exactly like they always do -- they submit wholly to authority.

McCluster was a gamechanger in college, true. In order to be that in the NFL he will need to learn how to run a full gamut of routes from the slot. Is he a project capable of learning? Yes, I believe that he is. But is he a project worth spending the 36th overall pick when you could have addressed glaring defensive needs w/ 1st round talent (not to mention picking up a #1 QB or a fringe-#1/great-#2 WR)? I strongly feel that he's not worth the pick over the other, better (or as good at the least) options that were available.

I mean this in a totally constructive criticism way: most of you guys sound just like KnowMo in this thread.

It is, it's Knowmo redux, "These guys are gonna be good just cause"

Mr. Flopnuts
04-24-2010, 01:03 AM
MCCLUSTER WILL OWN. WE SHOULDVE TRADED UP AND TAKEN HIM IN THE FIRST

If we'd taken him at 5 the OleMiss/Saints fan would've JIHP. It would've been Reggie Bush esque.

the Talking Can
04-24-2010, 01:03 AM
But so was safety, nickel, offensive line, tight end and the return game before today.

They just have too many ****ing holes.

lbs are more important than nickel cbs, especially in a 3-4, and especially in te 2nd round, and especially when you DRAFTED A CB LAST YEAR

same for TEs...WHICH WE DRAFTED LAST YEAR


guess what we didn't draft? either year?

LB
NT


you can't just pretend everything is equal, because it isn't true

bad choices have long term consequences...that is why we have sucked for years and years and years...

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 01:03 AM
Yeah, they do.

Unfortunately, they decided to fill the least important ones.

Please don't think that getting another nickle CB, TE and KR is more important that a front 7 player in a 3-4 defense.

I don't.

But at the same time, I'm not pissed that they addressed other positions that needed to be upgraded.

This isn't like last year when the picks made NO sense and basically sucked ass. If last year didn't suck so much, we wouldn't be in this position now.

But at LEAST, they got some game changers. And I think that Berry, McCluster, Arenas and Asamoah change this team overnight.

If Moeaki can stay healthy, he's icing on the cake. And we've still got two picks tomorrow.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 01:04 AM
I was watching the draft with a friend of mine, you know it's bad when we look at Baltimore and go "hey they took the guys we shoulda took"

OleMissCub
04-24-2010, 01:05 AM
If we'd taken him at 5 the OleMiss/Saints fan would've JIHP. It would've been Reggie Bush esque.

I'm not a fool. I wouldn't have taken Dexter in the first round. He went higher than I figured he would, but it's hardly worth pulling your hair out over.

Miles
04-24-2010, 01:05 AM
I don't get the talk about the "True Fans" and the "Drafturbators" are reversing roles. The True Fans are acting exactly like they always do -- they submit wholly to authority.

McCluster was a gamechanger in college, true. In order to be that in the NFL he will need to learn how to run a full gamut of routes from the slot. Is he a project capable of learning? Yes, I believe that he is. But is he a project worth spending the 36th overall pick when you could have addressed glaring defensive needs w/ 1st round talent (not to mention picking up a #1 QB or a fringe-#1/great-#2 WR)? I strongly feel that he's not worth the pick over the other, better (or as good at the least) options that were available.

I mean this in a totally constructive criticism way: most of you guys sound just like KnowMo in this thread.

I still am sort of OK with the pick. He is a good example of a player I really liked but just not that high. As you just listed, too many aspect of his game that make him a bit of a project.

Rausch
04-24-2010, 01:05 AM
Yeah, they do.

Unfortunately, they decided to fill the least important ones.

Please don't think that getting another nickle CB, TE and KR is more important that a front 7 player in a 3-4 defense.

This $#it-tasitic last 6 years has been due to poor drafting, followed up by a few years of ditching the old talent and then rebuilding, followed by a complete change of everyone as well as scheme and emphasis, followed by yet another rebuild by a completely different GM/HC, followed by another completely different change in offensive and defensive philosophy...


:BLVD:

BryanBusby
04-24-2010, 01:06 AM
Stupid Pioli taking some slower smaller version of Jamaal Charles instead of taking the amazing value in Everson Griffen instead.

This team ****ing blew last year and was slow as hell. The line sucked, Charles was falling apart being both the premiere RB and returner, CBs not named Brandon Flowers were killing the Chiefs at one point and receivers sucked and basically looked slow as hell. These issues have actually been addressed.

Scott Pioli actually got some actual potential play makers finally instead of Tyson Jackson and the Q_Q is still never ending.

Today just got ****ing pathetic when people started leaking from the vagina because Scott wasn't stock piling them future picks like Belichick. Shut the **** up already.

Here in reality world, coming off a 4-12 season doesn't exactly tell me that the Chiefs are primed to make the big push and need to put a finishing touch on the few holes they have.

KCrockaholic
04-24-2010, 01:06 AM
I'm not a fool. I wouldn't have taken Dexter in the first round. He went higher than I figured he would, but it's hardly worth pulling your hair out over.

Haha I love that Sig man.

keg in kc
04-24-2010, 01:06 AM
I don't get the talk about the "True Fans" and the "Drafturbators" are reversing roles. The True Fans are acting exactly like they always do -- they submit wholly to authority.I totally get it. The drafturbaters sound a little like they're wishing the chiefs had picked for need, with a focus on the front 7. Which is eerily similar to "WE GAVE UP SACKS DRAFT AN OT!" or "DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS, GET A DAMN NT" instead of the normal "we're drafting at 5, you need to draft a great playmaker there instead of a fucking offensive tackle".

Mostly though it reads like "I wanted playmakers, damnit, but not these playmakers".

As far as sumbitting to authority, I think you'll probably hear somebody argue that the converse is true and that the drafturbators are sticking to their normal MO of criticizing the front office regardless of what they do.

Rausch
04-24-2010, 01:08 AM
If we'd taken him at 5 the OleMiss/Saints fan would've JIHP. It would've been Reggie Bush esque.

I do love me some top 10 HB.

How's that huge contract working out for those Reggie Bush and Rickey Williams pimps?...

Mr. Flopnuts
04-24-2010, 01:08 AM
I'm not a fool. I wouldn't have taken Dexter in the first round. He went higher than I figured he would, but it's hardly worth pulling your hair out over.

Naw, I was just fucking around with that post. Nothing personal dude, I really don't hate the pick. I think he's going to do well. I just think we could've done better.

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 01:08 AM
lbs are more important than nickel cbs, especially in a 3-4, and especially in te 2nd round, and especially when you DRAFTED A CB LAST YEAR

same for TEs...WHICH WE DRAFTED LAST YEAR


guess what we didn't draft? either year?

LB
NT


you can't just pretend everything is equal, because it isn't true

bad choices have long term consequences...that is why we have sucked for years and years and years...

This CB isn't just a CB - he was the nation's most dynamic returner. He can change a game instantly.

In looking at their moves, it's evident that they're happy with the Shaun Smith acquisition and the progress of Mays, Belcher and Studebaker.

Now, do I agree? Honestly, I have no idea. I think there's a possibility that Belcher and Studebaker improve exponentially. But if they don't, there will be guys at the cut down.

I'm not going to trip out NOW. I'll trip out if certain positions aren't addressed by opening day. But I think we can all agree that a dynamic slot receiver and returner ARE NOT going to be available on the waiver wire.

And if the Chiefs had Berry and Arenas last year, Miles Austin and the dumbass Broncos receiver woudn't have had career days against the Chiefs.

OleMissCub
04-24-2010, 01:08 AM
He doesn't look any slower than Charles to me.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-24-2010, 01:10 AM
The Arenas pick was the one that really pissed me off. There were way too many better options than Mighty Mouse II.

OleMissCub
04-24-2010, 01:10 AM
Naw, I was just ****ing around with that post. Nothing personal dude, I really don't hate the pick. I think he's going to do well. I just think we could've done better.

Well you certainly could have done better with the Arenas pick. Arenas was a guy that I feared everytime we played BAMA. However, paying a scholarship to have a guy like Arenas on your team and paying him 2nd round money to have him on your team are different things.

Saccopoo
04-24-2010, 01:10 AM
If Moeaki can stay healthy, he's icing on the cake. And we've still got two picks tomorrow.

We traded up for a tight end. Again.

And that would be okay if you didn't have the first team Walter Camp tight end or the first team AP All-American tight end still on the board and it looked like both would have been there when the Chiefs picked in the fourth. But, instead, we decide to throw away one of our very valuable fifth round picks to draft a guy who has never played a full season in college because of injuries and concussions.

Bad fucking pick.

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 01:11 AM
I was watching the draft with a friend of mine, you know it's bad when we look at Baltimore and go "hey they took the guys we shoulda took"

Bullshit.

The Chiefs don't have the luxury of taking an OLB with medical issues that may or may not play in 2010. That was the reason he dropped.

The Chiefs don't have the luxury of Ngata on the line that they could take a fucking out of shape fatass with questionable motives.

KCrockaholic
04-24-2010, 01:11 AM
He doesn't look any slower than Charles to me.

Don't go there bro. Charles is our man. Charles is faster.

OnTheWarpath58
04-24-2010, 01:11 AM
The Arenas pick was the one that really pissed me off. There were way too many better options than Mighty Mouse II.

But look at all those games we would have won last year had we had a KR?

Seriously, only this fanbase could possbily think that a slot WR, TE and a KR carries more value than a pass rusher, NT or ILB in a 34 scheme.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-24-2010, 01:12 AM
We traded up for a tight end. Again.

And that would be okay if you didn't have the first team Walter Camp tight end or the first team AP All-American tight end still on the board and it looked like both would have been there when the Chiefs picked in the fourth. But, instead, we decide to throw away one of our very valuable fifth round picks to draft a guy who has never played a full season in college because of injuries and concussions.

Bad fucking pick.

And that was the other one that really pissed me off. As if he wouldn't have been sitting there at our 4th round pick. There were 2-3 higher rated TE's than him on the board. Why did we trade up for him? WTF?

Reaper16
04-24-2010, 01:12 AM
I totally get it. The drafturbaters sound a little like they're wishing the chiefs had picked for need, with a focus on the front 7. Which is eerily similar to "WE GAVE UP SACKS DRAFT AN OT!" or "DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS, GET A DAMN NT" instead of the normal "we're drafting at 5, you need to draft a great playmaker there instead of a fucking offensive tackle".

Mostly though it reads like "I wanted playmakers, damnit, but not these playmakers".

As far as sumbitting to authority, I think you'll probably hear somebody argue that the converse is true and that the drafturbators are sticking to their normal MO of criticizing the front office regardless of what they do.
Everything only sounds like what you're describing it as if you can't read particularly well. Point of dispute: when we say need at 36 we're also talking about BPA at the same time - win/win, McCluster wasn't BPA at the time and Arenas was like a two round reach, no one would argue against an LT at #5 in any draft unless your team already has one - like the Chiefs - so there goes that mischaracterization, I know that I'll hear someone attempt to argue that some of us bitch about every single move the front office makes but I don't care because that is so stupid as to not warrant getting indignant over.

keg in kc
04-24-2010, 01:12 AM
The Arenas pick was the one that really pissed me off. There were way too many better options than Mighty Mouse II.The McCluster pick did it for me. By the time they picked Arenas I was already in "whatever" mode.

I like the picks more in retrospect, now that I've done some research on them.

Still not who I'd have picked, but I've never had a vote in the warroom.

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 01:12 AM
The Arenas pick was the one that really pissed me off. There were way too many better options than Mighty Mouse II.

5'9 200 isn't 5'7 160

Mecca
04-24-2010, 01:13 AM
Everything only sounds like what you're describing it as if you can't read particularly well. Point of dispute: when we say need at 36 we're also talking about BPA at the same time - win/win, McCluster wasn't BPA at the time and Arenas was like a two round reach, no one would argue against an LT at #5 in any draft unless your team already has one - like the Chiefs - so there goes that mischaracterization, I know that I'll hear someone attempt to argue that some of us bitch about every single move the front office makes but I don't care because that is so stupid as to not warrant getting indignant over.

Good luck getting an actual response to this.

keg in kc
04-24-2010, 01:13 AM
Everything only sounds like what you're describing it as if you can't read particularly well. And that's why everybody treats you guys the way they do.

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 01:13 AM
But look at all those games we would have won last year had we had a KR?

Seriously, only this fanbase could possbily think that a slot WR, TE and a KR carries more value than a pass rusher, NT or ILB in a 34 scheme.

So which pass rusher or ILB would you have taken?

Miles
04-24-2010, 01:13 AM
The Arenas pick was the one that really pissed me off. There were way too many better options than Mighty Mouse II.

That was the only one people are bitching about that actually annoyed me. Good player but seems like a luxury. If he has potential as a CB2 then I really like it.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-24-2010, 01:14 AM
The McCluster pick did it for me. By the time they picked Arenas I was already in "whatever" mode.

I like the picks more in retrospect, now that I've done some research on them.

Still not who I'd have picked, but I've never had a vote in the warroom.

The more I look at McCluster the more I like him. But I'm going to be concerned with our defense until it proves me wrong.

5'9 200 isn't 5'7 160

I exaggerated that. But he's a little guy.

OnTheWarpath58
04-24-2010, 01:14 AM
Bullshit.

The Chiefs don't have the luxury of taking an OLB with medical issues that may or may not play in 2010. That was the reason he dropped.

The Chiefs don't have the luxury of Ngata on the line that they could take a fucking out of shape fatass with questionable motives.

But they have the luxury of passing on players like Daryl Washington, Donald Butler, Koa Misi, etc for a slot project and a KR, who's a marginal CB prospect?

Mecca
04-24-2010, 01:15 AM
I see Keg did his best to avoid responding to the point there.

BigMeatballDave
04-24-2010, 01:15 AM
It is, it's Knowmo redux, "These guys are gonna be good just cause"No one is saying that, but those that hate these picks are assuming they will suck.

kcpasco
04-24-2010, 01:16 AM
The Arenas pick was the one that really pissed me off. There were way too many better options than Mighty Mouse II.

This

I still don't understand that pick

Reaper16
04-24-2010, 01:16 AM
And that's why everybody treats you guys the way they do.
I don't care how I'm treated. I care about good arguments. If someone can argue a point well, even if I disagree with them, then I'll respect them. The kinds of mischaracterizations that you pointed out come from people who don't argue their positions well, probably because they don't understand any position.

|Zach|
04-24-2010, 01:16 AM
ROFLROFL

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 01:17 AM
But they have the luxury of passing on players like Daryl Washington, Donald Butler, Koa Misi, etc for a slot project and a KR, who's a marginal CB prospect?

Gruden compared him to Ronde Barber and said he'd watched him since high school.

If that's the case, I'll take it.

Out of your list, only Washington appeals to me. And FTR, I don't think he's a "slot project". This isn't rocket science, it's football. The dude should be fine.

Rausch
04-24-2010, 01:17 AM
Bullshit.

The Chiefs don't have the luxury of taking an OLB with medical issues that may or may not play in 2010. That was the reason he dropped.

The Chiefs don't have the luxury of Ngata on the line that they could take a ****ing out of shape fatass with questionable motives.

They also don't have the luxury of drafting two guys I can look in the fucking eye and challenge to a foot race...

OnTheWarpath58
04-24-2010, 01:17 AM
Everything only sounds like what you're describing it as if you can't read particularly well. Point of dispute: when we say need at 36 we're also talking about BPA at the same time - win/win, McCluster wasn't BPA at the time and Arenas was like a two round reach, no one would argue against an LT at #5 in any draft unless your team already has one - like the Chiefs - so there goes that mischaracterization, I know that I'll hear someone attempt to argue that some of us bitch about every single move the front office makes but I don't care because that is so stupid as to not warrant getting indignant over.

That's the thing people are ignoring - the value on the board was matching our most desperate needs perfectly at each pick.

You'll never convince me that a project slot WR, a marginal nickle CB prospect, who can return kicks and a TE are more valuable than pass rushers, ILB's, SS's and NT's in a 34 scheme.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 01:17 AM
And frankly if you think someone hates everything, why are the people that supposedly hate everything the same people that praised the 08 draft?

Reaper16
04-24-2010, 01:18 AM
No one is saying that, but those that hate these picks are assuming they will suck.
It seems like this mistake gets made every year. But here I go again with an important point:

A drafted player can be effective and the pick itself can still suck. I wish that everyone would remember that.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 01:18 AM
The draft is about matching need with value, the best drafting teams consistently do this. You don't reach for need or overvalue guys you don't need.

This is not difficult to understand, yet it seems to be for some.

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 01:19 AM
I exaggerated that. But he's a little guy.

Then I assume you're unhappy with Carr and Flowers? Because, he's the same size as those guys.

If you're upset they didn't draft a "big" CB, the kind that Gunther preferred, I'd get that.

But if you're upset they drafted the most dynamic returner in the country that also doubles as a damn good CB, I'd offer that your anger is misguided.

the Talking Can
04-24-2010, 01:19 AM
No one is saying that, but those that hate these picks are assuming they will suck.

no, we're pointing out what terrible fucking value they are.....but no one wants to read the fucking words

we had top 5 picks in every round and passed over pass rushers, lbs, and nts for nickel cbs, injured te, and a hb that will be converted to wr....

OnTheWarpath58
04-24-2010, 01:19 AM
Gruden compared him to Ronde Barber and said he'd watched him since high school.

If that's the case, I'll take it.

Out of your list, only Washington appeals to me. And FTR, I don't think he's a "slot project". This isn't rocket science, it's football. The dude should be fine.

Ask the Ole Miss fan who's sucking him off how many times McCluster lined up in the slot and ran a route.

Then come back and tell me the kid should walk right in, at the position known for being the hardest to adjust to from college to the pros - when he's never played it - and "be fine."

Rausch
04-24-2010, 01:19 AM
Gruden compared him to Ronde Barber and said he'd watched him since high school.

He also pimped Tim Tie-bow and drafted the $#it-tastic-nasty that's put Tampa in the QB mess they have now.

And he's supposed to be a QB Guru...

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 01:20 AM
The draft is about matching need with value, the best drafting teams consistently do this. You don't reach for need or overvalue guys you don't need.

This is not difficult to understand, yet it seems to be for some.

And yet, the draft isn't a science nor are there any absolutes

QuikSsurfer
04-24-2010, 01:20 AM
Ask the Ole Miss fan who's sucking him off

Dude, don't be a motherfucker.

Rausch
04-24-2010, 01:20 AM
no, we're pointing out what terrible ****ing value they are.....but no one wants to read the ****ing words

we had top 5 picks in every round and passed over pass rushers, lbs, and nts for nickel cbs, injured te, and a hb that will be converted to wr....

This...

chiefzilla1501
04-24-2010, 01:20 AM
lbs are more important than nickel cbs, especially in a 3-4, and especially in te 2nd round, and especially when you DRAFTED A CB LAST YEAR
Nickel CBs are extremely important in any defense, with offenses moving to 3 to 5 receiver sets. Washington was a horrendous pick last year. He's not the answer. If Arenas is a solid nickel back, it's an important need at some point. There's no way in fucking hell you can beat a team like New England or Indy in the future playoffs when they have slot receivers that stomp all over Donald Washington all game long

same for TEs...WHICH WE DRAFTED LAST YEAR
Charlie Weis runs a ton of 2-TE sets and values TEs quite a bit. And he likes TEs with the versatility to block and receive, so he can be deceptive in his sets.

guess what we didn't draft? either year?

LB
NT


you can't just pretend everything is equal, because it isn't true

bad choices have long term consequences...that is why we have sucked for years and years and years...
Not drafting a Nose Tackle surprises me. But again, you draft the guy you think is BPA. You don't draft a guy because he's there. A lot of scouts seemed to really dislike Cody. You have guys like Sergio Kindle who dropped b/c of concerns about microfractures in his leg. And you have no idea what these coaches value. Charlie Weis builds his entire offense around versatility. Go ahead and look up any site about how he runs his offense. When I heard we hired Weis, I knew Sproles was about as dangerous of a weapon they could find and I think there's definitely potential for McCluster to play a similar role. If he's returning kicks, lining up on 3rd downs, lining up on 4-5 receiver sets, and getting a carry or two, the guy's going to be a full-time player playing specialized roles.

Reaper16
04-24-2010, 01:21 AM
Then I assume you're unhappy with Carr and Flowers? Because, he's the same size as those guys.

If you're upset they didn't draft a "big" CB, the kind that Gunther preferred, I'd get that.

But if you're upset they drafted the most dynamic returner in the country that also doubles as a damn good CB, I'd offer that your anger is misguided.
We'll agree to disagree on this, but I'm pretty sure that I'm going to be proven right about Arenas. I think he's obviously a great returner but I think he's a middling CB prospect at the pro level.

|Zach|
04-24-2010, 01:21 AM
And yet, the draft isn't a science nor are there any absolutes

Is there anyway to bold and make this larger this so it breaks through some people's computer screens.

OleMissCub
04-24-2010, 01:21 AM
Ask the Ole Miss fan who's sucking him off how many times McCluster lined up in the slot and ran a route.


damnit if you aren't the epitome of the angry message board butthead. jesus. you don't have to insult me.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 01:21 AM
Explain to me why Arenas was featured on the draft coverage...in the other players draft highlights constantly being beat like a drum.

Rausch
04-24-2010, 01:22 AM
And yet, the draft isn't a science nor are there any absolutes

You, of all people, pick now to be vague and blindly optimistic?...

:spock:

Mecca
04-24-2010, 01:22 AM
We get it Zach you're above it, now you can passive aggressive yourself out the fuck.

KCrockaholic
04-24-2010, 01:23 AM
You can say Ass. Shit. Fuck. Bitch on this board. It's not middle school.

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 01:23 AM
He also pimped Tim Tie-bow and drafted the $#it-tastic-nasty that's put Tampa in the QB mess they have now.

And he's supposed to be a QB Guru...


And as for the Barber comparison, he did coach him AND saw Arenas play in high school in Tampa. You can take that as a negative if you'd like but I'd prefer to go the opposite direction until proven otherwise.

|Zach|
04-24-2010, 01:23 AM
We get it Zach you're above it, now you can passive aggressive yourself out the ****.

If you can drone on with the same bullshit all day I am allowed to as well. That wasn't even an I am above it post.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-24-2010, 01:24 AM
Then I assume you're unhappy with Carr and Flowers? Because, he's the same size as those guys.

If you're upset they didn't draft a "big" CB, the kind that Gunther preferred, I'd get that.

But if you're upset they drafted the most dynamic returner in the country that also doubles as a damn good CB, I'd offer that your anger is misguided.

Carr is 6' tall, and Flowers is the same size but his rating coming out of college was higher than Arenas.

I would've just rather gone in a different direction. Charles can return kicks. McCluster can return kicks. We have genuine needs that we could've filled rather than drafting another nickel back and our 3rd kick returner.

the Talking Can
04-24-2010, 01:24 AM
Nickel CBs are extremely important in any defense, with offenses moving to 3 to 5 receiver sets. Washington was a horrendous pick last year. He's not the answer. If Arenas is a solid nickel back, it's an important need at some point. There's no way in ****ing hell you can beat a team like New England or Indy in the future playoffs when they have slot receivers that stomp all over Donald Washington all game long


Charlie Weis runs a ton of 2-TE sets and values TEs quite a bit. And he likes TEs with the versatility to block and receive, so he can be deceptive in his sets.


Not drafting a Nose Tackle surprises me. But again, you draft the guy you think is BPA. You don't draft a guy because he's there. A lot of scouts seemed to really dislike Cody. You have guys like Sergio Kindle who dropped b/c of concerns about microfractures in his leg. And you have no idea what these coaches value. Charlie Weis builds his entire offense around versatility. Go ahead and look up any site about how he runs his offense. When I heard we hired Weis, I knew Sproles was about as dangerous of a weapon they could find and I think there's definitely potential for McCluster to play a similar role. If he's returning kicks, lining up on 3rd downs, lining up on 4-5 receiver sets, and getting a carry or two, the guy's going to be a full-time player playing specialized roles.

you don't draft a nickle cb in the 2nd round of s draft that loaded with talent when your entire lb core sucks ass and you don't have a NT...

it's that simple

the rest is just lame rationalizing

we choked on a dick in the 2nd round....meanwhile the Ravens, who know something about 3-4 defense took kindle and cody and laughed all the way home

OleMissCub
04-24-2010, 01:24 AM
so I'm new to the Chiefs and aren't really aware of your depth at RB. I know of Charles obviously, but don't know about any other guys back there (well, Thomas Jones of course). However, I'm curious as to why they wouldn't just try and use McCluster in the backfield (he could run out of the slot as well at times). I know with the Saints we are constantly using Pierre Thomas and Reggie Bush back there, often at the same time.

Rausch
04-24-2010, 01:25 AM
And as for the Barber comparison, he did coach him AND saw Arenas play in high school in Tampa. You can take that as a negative if you'd like but I'd prefer to go the opposite direction until proven otherwise.

I have clearly woken up in bizarro world or in the middle of some Vanilla Sky bad dream.

TECH SUPPORT!1!:cuss:

Mecca
04-24-2010, 01:25 AM
I hope all our CB's and Berry have fun tackling because we're gonna get ripped on running plays.

chiefzilla1501
04-24-2010, 01:26 AM
Ask the Ole Miss fan who's sucking him off how many times McCluster lined up in the slot and ran a route.

Then come back and tell me the kid should walk right in, at the position known for being the hardest to adjust to from college to the pros - when he's never played it - and "be fine."

The slot is not nearly as difficult as playing an x or a y.

Nickel backs typically play a little bit off, so there isn't nearly the importance of getting off bumps. That's why slot receivers tend to be smaller. And a lot of them will line up based on mismatches. There's something to be said for a guy in your backfield who can motion to a slot, based on the matchup.

The Chiefs say he'll be a receiver, but I'd be shocked if that was the case. It's hard to put a label on it. He's going to be on the field quite a bit and he's going to play whatever position on the field Weis thinks is appropriate for a given situation.

OnTheWarpath58
04-24-2010, 01:26 AM
Carr is 6' tall, and Flowers is the same size but his rating coming out of college was higher than Arenas.

I would've just rather gone in a different direction. Charles can return kicks. McCluster can return kicks. We have genuine needs that we could've filled rather than drafting another nickel back and our 3rd kick returner.

We should just back down, praise every move Pioli makes, no matter how foolish, and just accept the fact that we are going to draft a nickle CB, a KR and a TE every year.

I'm dumbfounded as to how people can defend using high picks on positions we used draft picks on just last year.

Reaper16
04-24-2010, 01:27 AM
Welp, if I've learned anything from day 2 its that a 2nd round pick doesn't have the same expectations associated with it that it used to.

kcpasco
04-24-2010, 01:27 AM
so I'm new to the Chiefs and aren't really aware of your depth at RB. I know of Charles obviously, but don't know about any other guys back there (well, Thomas Jones of course). However, I'm curious as to why they wouldn't just try and use McCluster in the backfield (he could run out of the slot as well at times). I know with the Saints we are constantly using Pierre Thomas and Reggie Bush back there, often at the same time.

because people want Cassel to have to throw the ball 50 yards so we can laugh at him

Epic Fail 007
04-24-2010, 01:27 AM
Philly was going to take him with the following pick from what I heard.

thats what i heard also

KCrockaholic
04-24-2010, 01:28 AM
He would have been a sweet fit with Philly. I'm glad we got him instead.

OleMissCub
04-24-2010, 01:29 AM
because people want Cassel to have to throw the ball 50 yards so we can laugh at him

lol

I take it you guys aren't too pleased with your "franchise" quarterback.

chiefzilla1501
04-24-2010, 01:29 AM
so I'm new to the Chiefs and aren't really aware of your depth at RB. I know of Charles obviously, but don't know about any other guys back there (well, Thomas Jones of course). However, I'm curious as to why they wouldn't just try and use McCluster in the backfield (he could run out of the slot as well at times). I know with the Saints we are constantly using Pierre Thomas and Reggie Bush back there, often at the same time.

I think people are overreacting because they hear he's going to be moved to receiver.

I'm sure with Thomas Jones, he's "moving to receiver" in the short-term while Jones/Charles split carries. I'm sure in the long-term, the vision is an LT/Sproles tandem, which I'm fine with.

I imagine he'll play a lot more slot this season than he's used to. But in the end, guarantee that in 2-3 years especially after they bulk him up a bit, he's basically a second back for Charles.

|Zach|
04-24-2010, 01:30 AM
The draft doesn't matter...how well the team plays doesn't matter.

It is just information for people to adjust too. People are locked in, and that is ok.

All we heard was how Pioli would be to ****ing stupid...didn't know about value...and would go with the safe pick and not big a real game changer like Claus or Berry.

Meanwhile the ND pick just tumbles. Tumbles into ****ing oblivion. 32 teams pass him AT LEAST once. At least 8 with pressing QB needs passed him at least once. His own coach passed him twice.

Then...Pioli drafts Berry.

We got one of the guys you wanted and the whole NFL made your need to get him at 6 look clownish.

You guys would have picked him at 6.

Yet everyone else is always retarded...I think this is all hilarious. I have enjoyed this process today.

Meanwhile it is obvious it doesn't actually matter what happens, it is just information to adjust too...we get one of the guys you folks wanted and this is the thread that gets made.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=227147

He was too stupid to pick Berry and now the FG posts move.

Just a small example. Maybe...just maybe things are not as good as you think they are or as bad as you think they are.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 01:30 AM
Welp, if I've learned anything from day 2 its that a 2nd round pick doesn't have the same expectations associated with it that it used to.

I know how dare we expect more than 1 good pick.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-24-2010, 01:30 AM
lol

I take it you guys aren't too pleased with your "franchise" quarterback.

Your quotation marks are the key to that post. That's one of the reasons a lot of people were pissed about the McCluster pick. They felt a franchise qb was ripe for the picking with a very good risk vs. reward factor.

QuikSsurfer
04-24-2010, 01:31 AM
so I'm new to the Chiefs and aren't really aware of your depth at RB. I know of Charles obviously, but don't know about any other guys back there (well, Thomas Jones of course). However, I'm curious as to why they wouldn't just try and use McCluster in the backfield (he could run out of the slot as well at times). I know with the Saints we are constantly using Pierre Thomas and Reggie Bush back there, often at the same time.

Most chiefs fans can't fathom getting the first downs required to show that many formations on the field....
He'll be lined up all over the field this season.

Rausch
04-24-2010, 01:31 AM
I hope all our CB's and Berry have fun tackling because we're gonna get ripped on running plays.

Hi, I'm Brad.

I've never agreed with you on...well....anything...but it looks like we'll be in the same corner for a while so...

I like mostly green in my landscape with some purple and dark reds mixed in. I'm a huge believer in neutral colors and earth tones in most of the common rooms in a house. I'm also not big on sour cream. Hate it. Makes my stomach icky after a case of beer...

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 01:31 AM
Carr is 6' tall, and Flowers is the same size but his rating coming out of college was higher than Arenas.

I would've just rather gone in a different direction. Charles can return kicks. McCluster can return kicks. We have genuine needs that we could've filled rather than drafting another nickel back and our 3rd kick returner.

Flowers is 5'9

Brandon Flowers | #24 | CB
Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.nfl.com/teams/kansascitychiefs/profile?team=KC) | Official Team Site (http://www.kcchiefs.com/)

Height: 5-9 Weight: 187 Age: 24
Born: 2/18/1986 Delray Beach , FL
College: Virginia Tech
Experience: 3rd season
High School: Atlantic HS [Delray Beach, FL]; Hargrave Mil. Acad. [Chatham, VA]


Flowers may have been rated higher but he wasn't a returner.


All I'm saying is that it's difficult for me to find fault in Pioli choosing playmakers this year.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 01:33 AM
Are you really overvaluing him because he's a returner?

Rausch
04-24-2010, 01:33 AM
The draft doesn't matter...how well the team plays doesn't matter.

It is just information for people to adjust too.

Uh......

OleMissCub
04-24-2010, 01:33 AM
Your quotation marks are the key to that post. That's one of the reasons a lot of people were pissed about the McCluster pick. They felt a franchise qb was ripe for the picking with a very good risk vs. reward factor.

Clausen was sitting right there, no doubt.

I know that if the Saints spent the kind of money y'all did on a guy who had ONE good year, I'd be in charge of the lynch mob headed toward to the dome.

the Talking Can
04-24-2010, 01:33 AM
The draft doesn't matter...how well the team plays doesn't matter.

It is just information for people to adjust too. People are locked in, and that is ok.

All we heard was how Pioli would be to ****ing stupid...didn't know about value...and would go with the safe pick and not big a real game changer like Claus or Berry.

Meanwhile the ND pick just tumbles. Tumbles into ****ing oblivion. 32 teams pass him AT LEAST once. At least 8 with pressing QB needs passed him at least once. His own coach passed him twice.

Then...Pioli drafts Berry.

We got one of the guys you wanted and the whole NFL made your need to get him at 6 look clownish.

You guys would have picked him at 6.

Yet everyone else is always retarded...I think this is all hilarious. I have enjoyed this process today.

Meanwhile it is obvious it doesn't actually matter what happens, it is just information to adjust too...we get one of the guys you folks wanted and this is the thread that gets made.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=227147

He was too stupid to pick Berry and now the FG posts move.

Berry is 1 pick.


Can we not expect more? The point of this isn't to suck off pioli, it's to build a winning football team. You seem to only care about the former.


And why do you care what we think?

I've never seen you actually express an opinion on anything other than how awesome you think you are.

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 01:35 AM
I hope all our CB's and Berry have fun tackling because we're gonna get ripped on running plays.

When? In 2010? Big fucking deal.

If this team had taken your Pioli projection of McClain, they'd be fucked at safety.

If they took Berry but not an OLB, they'd be fucked.

Face it: This team is a LONG way from filling all its holes and no matter who they chose, there are still going to be problems elsewhere.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 01:35 AM
Berry is 1 pick.


Can we not expect more? The point of this isn't to suck off pioli, it's to build a winning football team. You seem to only care about the former.


And why do you care what we think?

I've never seen you actually express an opinion on anything other than how awesome you think you are.

That's how he always posts, he's above it, he is awesome and we suck.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-24-2010, 01:35 AM
All I'm saying is that it's difficult for me to find fault in Pioli choosing playmakers this year.

I'll give you that the draft wasn't nearly as bad as last year. I just think we dropped the ball on some guys that are going to be good, and would've immediately started for us in more than just nickel situations.

And McCluster could easily return the ball. Same with Charles. Sean Lee would've been a GREAT choice at 50 IMO.

I am glad he's going after playmakers. Genuinely. I just really wish he would've gotten one guy, just one guy at one of the core positions that desperately need help. I'll never forget what Jerome Harrison did to us.

Reaper16
04-24-2010, 01:35 AM
I know how dare we expect more than 1 good pick.
Its not even about good players, because I think Weiss is smart enough to get production out of McCluster. Its about the [former, apparently] expectations that a 2nd round pick be a front-line starting caliber player at a position of importance.

With this draft it has become permissible for 2nd rounders to be WR3s and nickle CBs, eschewing those expectations of front-line starting material.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 01:36 AM
When? In 2010? Big fucking deal.

If this team had taken your Pioli projection of McClain, they'd be fucked at safety.

If they took Berry but not an OLB, they'd be fucked.

Face it: This team is a LONG way from filling all its holes and no matter who they chose, there are still going to be problems elsewhere.

They'd be a bit closer if they knew the difference in core player and complimentary player.

|Zach|
04-24-2010, 01:37 AM
Berry is 1 pick.


Can we not expect more? The point of this isn't to suck off pioli, it's to build a winning football team. You seem to only care about the former.


And why do you care what we think?

I've never seen you actually express an opinion on anything other than how awesome you think you are.

How awesome I think I am?

For you to actually take that from my posts says a lot more about you than me.

I don't think I am awesome I just don't see the world in black and white. Nothing is in black and white. To throw all these absolutes into something that has so many variables...many of which we don't know about makes smart people say the wackiest stuff.

There is no problem then expecting more than 1 pick. My point is that to think at this point that is all you have just seems foolish.

I painted a picture of the mob mentality all believing something that turned out to be a sham. Why should we continue to be berated for not believing the house is on fire?

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 01:38 AM
Welp, if I've learned anything from day 2 its that a 2nd round pick doesn't have the same expectations associated with it that it used to.

When in the history of the Chiefs has anyone had any expectations?

Round Two has historically been their Achille's Heel.

Rausch
04-24-2010, 01:38 AM
That's how he always posts, he's above it, he is awesome and we suck.

I was told that insults only hurt if there's some truth to them...

the Talking Can
04-24-2010, 01:39 AM
When? In 2010? Big ****ing deal.

If this team had taken your Pioli projection of McClain, they'd be ****ed at safety.

If they took Berry but not an OLB, they'd be ****ed.

Face it: This team is a LONG way from filling all its holes and no matter who they chose, there are still going to be problems elsewhere.


not all problems are the same

a problem at nickel corner is not near as important as a problem at NT

and nickle cbs are easier to find than NTs

when you have 2 nts sitting in your lap in the 2nd round of a strong draft you don't draft a nickle cb (who was a reach anyways)

these decisions haunt us....

QuikSsurfer
04-24-2010, 01:40 AM
this thread is picking up.

Reaper16
04-24-2010, 01:40 AM
I'll give you that the draft wasn't nearly as bad as last year. I just think we dropped the ball on some guys that are going to be good, and would've immediately started for us in more than just nickel situations.

And McCluster could easily return the ball. Same with Charles. Sean Lee would've been a GREAT choice at 50 IMO.

I am glad he's going after playmakers. Genuinely. I just really wish he would've gotten one guy, just one guy at one of the core positions that desperately need help. I'll never forget what Jerome Harrison did to us.
Imagine how better received this day 2 would be if Arenas were replaced with a guy like [insert list of like 15 better picks here], a better pick from both BPA and need standpoints and if the trade up for a TE never happened, leaving tomorrow with an opportunity to nab a TE still (from a deeeep TE class) and address LB.

Rausch
04-24-2010, 01:40 AM
When in the history of the Chiefs has anyone had any expectations?

93.

The one and only year Carl delivered and gave us a SB competitive team.

And that is sad.

It is sad both in how long it's been and sad in the fact that we've been unable to replicate it...

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 01:41 AM
I'll give you that the draft wasn't nearly as bad as last year. I just think we dropped the ball on some guys that are going to be good, and would've immediately started for us in more than just nickel situations.

And McCluster could easily return the ball. Same with Charles. Sean Lee would've been a GREAT choice at 50 IMO.

I am glad he's going after playmakers. Genuinely. I just really wish he would've gotten one guy, just one guy at one of the core positions that desperately need help. I'll never forget what Jerome Harrison did to us.

Sean Lee would have been a great "choice" IMO, as well.

But with all honesty, I don't know if he'll impact a game like Arenas.

And I say that in total honesty. I just don't know.

But what I DO know is that the Chiefs need instinctive defensive backs and guys that can return the football.

Time will tell which was the "right" choice but I can't complain today.

Reaper16
04-24-2010, 01:42 AM
When in the history of the Chiefs has anyone had any expectations?

Round Two has historically been their Achille's Heel. That's not an argument, Dane. Its a non-sequitor. Besides, the Chiefs sucked at round 2 under Carl because of his propensity to reach during it.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 01:42 AM
Dane thinks Arenas is going to run back 20 kicks for TD's, either that or you mean impact the game by getting beat seeing as he was prominently featured in the other players highlight packages.

QuikSsurfer
04-24-2010, 01:42 AM
Imagine how better received this day 2 would be if Arenas were replaced with a guy like [insert list of like 15 better picks here], a better pick from both BPA and need standpoints and if the trade up for a TE never happened, leaving tomorrow with an opportunity to nab a TE still (from a deeeep TE class) and address LB.

Lol bastard

Mr. Flopnuts
04-24-2010, 01:43 AM
Sean Lee would have been a great "choice" IMO, as well.

But with all honesty, I don't know if he'll impact a game like Arenas.

And I say that in total honesty. I just don't know.

But what I DO know is that the Chiefs need instinctive defensive backs and guys that can return the football.

Time will tell which was the "right" choice but I can't complain today.

I am inspired by your positive attitude. I didn't expect it. Time will tell is the best way to put it.

keg in kc
04-24-2010, 01:43 AM
The more I look at them the more I like them. But I'm going to be concerned with our defense until it proves me wrong.I've been more concerned with the offense all along.

Defensively, there's a lot of talent on the line, although they're young and were, I believe, poorly coached. I think the makings are there for a tremendous secondary. What I have the most question about right now is linebacker. I'm curious to see how that plays out. But that's never, to me, been a position that absolutely, positively has to be filled out in the draft, much less the first three rounds of the draft. But I really don't think the defense is more than a piece or two away.

On offense - and I've said this a few times in the last 4 months - I thought the unit last year was the worst offense I've seen, personnel-wise. Branden Albert was, at the time, the only talent on the line. Our starters at WR and TE for much of last year were players we picked off of waivers during the season. I'm actually embarrassed by that, to a degree - that's a bag over my head kind of thing. Charles was great at RB for half a season, basically the only sign of hope that I saw, but there are I think valid concerns about his health and ability to shoulder the load.

They've basically rebuilt the interior line now, with vets and last evening's pick and I think there may be real competition for the starting guard and center positions now. I still wonder about RT... I believe Jones was a wise acquisition at RB. If McCluster is, in fact, able to successfully execute a Welker-esque role in Weis' offense, he'll be a huge part of the offense going forward. I think Chambers is a quality number 2, the question now is whether Dwayne Bowe is ready and able to take a step forward and become a real, consistent threat. This is a huge season for him. TEs? Fuck if I know. I think that position's going to be a work in progress, although the general (national) consensus on Moeaki is that he could be a stud if he can find a way to stay on the field.

The real problem I see now is Cassel. I didn't want them to trade for him last year, and I don't see much reason to hope he'll suddenly turn into an all-pro, even after what I see as a very real influx in talent. But, at the same time, I'm not sure that our failure to draft Clausen (or McCoy) really was a statement about Cassel. It may well have been a statement about them, and the kind of future and potential the front office foresaw.

Anyway, this post has turned into something I didn't expect, sort of a laundry list of the moves they've made. I think maybe, now that I look at everything together, they've done more to transition from 2009 to 2010 than I'd realized. I think maybe I tend to forget about just how many young, key players there really are, and not just on the defensive line. There may even be some candidates already on the roster for the OLB position opposite Hali.

I said earlier (was that in this thread or another) that maybe it's hard for us to look at all this objectively, because we're so close to it....

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 01:44 AM
these decisions haunt us....

You can't say that with absolute certainty.

At least this year, they took playmakers.

We'll see how it pays off in 2010 and beyond.

Saccopoo
04-24-2010, 01:44 AM
Your quotation marks are the key to that post. That's one of the reasons a lot of people were pissed about the McCluster pick. They felt a franchise qb was ripe for the picking with a very good risk vs. reward factor.

Speak for yourself. Franchise QB my ass. It was simply an unnecessary pick, especially when one looks at the roster and the needs the team had with the players available in the draft.

Quarterback was the least of the worries at that point. So was slot receiver, especially after signing Urban.

I understand that the kid is dynamic, presents an "uncatchable" force on the outside in a multi-receiver/back set, but for Christ's sake, how about getting a situation established where the core of the team, offense or defense is established before we start picking toys that we play with 15% of the time at max in a game. Fuck!

If we want to take a fucking receiver at that point, how about Damian Williams, who is also a solid return guy, and at 6'1", 200 lbs., he's also a sure handed, legit #2 receiver. Fuck!

KCrockaholic
04-24-2010, 01:44 AM
Dane thinks Arenas is going to run back 20 kicks for TD's, either that or you mean impact the game by getting beat seeing as he was prominently featured in the other players highlight packages.

Just for the sake of your case, can you post the highlight videos that you're referring too so we can all see what the fuss is about?

ChiefsCountry
04-24-2010, 01:45 AM
I like how two years in a row they have totally went against the draft board. Not to mention the franchise crippling trade last year for that worthless dog shit Cassel.

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 01:45 AM
Dane thinks Arenas is going to run back 20 kicks for TD's, either that or you mean impact the game by getting beat seeing as he was prominently featured in the other players highlight packages.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth.

For someone who repeatedly states that they don't drink or do drugs, you often post like someone who's jacked out of their mind.

BryanBusby
04-24-2010, 01:45 AM
not all problems are the same

a problem at nickel corner is not near as important as a problem at NT

and nickle cbs are easier to find than NTs

when you have 2 nts sitting in your lap in the 2nd round of a strong draft you don't draft a nickle cb (who was a reach anyways)

these decisions haunt us....

Considering how often Defenses are having to play in the nickel package now a days, I'd say a problem at nickel corner is a big deal. I guess some of you must of forgot of a certain nickel that gave Smiles Austin a career game.

|Zach|
04-24-2010, 01:46 AM
I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth.

For someone who repeatedly states that they don't drink or do drugs, you often post like someone who's jacked out of their mind.

41 times a day.

Jesus fucking christ.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 01:46 AM
Just for the sake of your case, can you post the highlight videos that you're referring too so we can all see what the fuss is about?

If you watched ESPN's draft coverage Arenas was prominently featured in both McCluster and Shipley's highlight vids getting his ass beat.

QuikSsurfer
04-24-2010, 01:47 AM
Quality post. Agree on most all parts

edit: keg

keg in kc
04-24-2010, 01:47 AM
93.

The one and only year Carl delivered and gave us a SB competitive team.

And that is sad.

It is sad both in how long it's been and sad in the fact that we've been unable to replicate it...Just my luck that I wasn't in town yet, to see a hall-of-fame quarterback overcome the shortcomings of a conservative coach. I've had a wonderful decade of Gunther and Grbac, Vermeil and Robinson, Vermeil and Gunther, Herm and Gunther. Carl finally leaves and I get Haley (who I like) and Cassel (who I don't).

I don't have a Montana to look back upon.

the Talking Can
04-24-2010, 01:47 AM
You can't say that with absolute certainty.

At least this year, they took playmakers.

We'll see how it pays off in 2010 and beyond.

i absolutely can, we've been making them for years....no clue about value and which positions matter and which don't

Mr. Flopnuts
04-24-2010, 01:47 AM
Speak for yourself. Franchise QB my ass. It was simply an unnecessary pick, especially when one looks at the roster and the needs the team had with the players available in the draft.

Quarterback was the least of the worries at that point. So was slot receiver, especially after signing Urban.

I understand that the kid is dynamic, presents an "uncatchable" force on the outside in a multi-receiver/back set, but for Christ's sake, how about getting a situation established where the core of the team, offense or defense is established before we start picking toys that we play with 15% of the time at max in a game. Fuck!

If we want to take a fucking receiver at that point, how about Damian Williams, who is also a solid return guy, and at 6'1", 200 lbs., he's also a sure handed, legit #2 receiver. Fuck!

LMAO You weren't included in my "people."

Mecca
04-24-2010, 01:47 AM
I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth.

For someone who repeatedly states that they don't drink or do drugs, you often post like someone who's jacked out of their mind.

So how exactly does a 3rd CB have a huge impact on a game then?

Reaper16
04-24-2010, 01:47 AM
I like how two years in a row they have totally went against the draft board. Not to mention the franchise crippling trade last year for that worthless dog shit Cassel.
They don't go against their own draft board, though. Its just that Pioli's draft board doesn't seem to take into account value of any kind. Pioli identifies players that he likes and he gets those players. If it means taking a nickle/dime CB/return man in the second round then so be it. Its a strategy that is abhorrent to me but that's his thing.

|Zach|
04-24-2010, 01:48 AM
LMAO You weren't included in my "people."

http://threetreesstudios.com/andscifi/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/i-shall-play-you-the-song-of-my-people.png

ChiefsCountry
04-24-2010, 01:48 AM
Just my luck that I wasn't in town yet, to see a hall-of-fame quarterback overcome the shortcomings of a conservative coach. I've had a wonderful decade of Gunther and Grbac, Vermeil and Robinson, Vermeil and Gunther, Herm and Gunther. Carl finally leaves and I get Haley (who I like) and Cassel (who I don't).

I don't have a Montana to look back upon.

95 and 97 teams were way more talented than the 93 team but Montana was the reason for the success. It was a fun ride that year.

KCrockaholic
04-24-2010, 01:49 AM
If you watched ESPN's draft coverage Arenas was prominently featured in both McCluster and Shipley's highlight vids getting his ass beat.

McCluster Pwned a lot of guys including our own Eric Berry. But I didn't see a couple of highlight reels on ESPN.

BryanBusby
04-24-2010, 01:49 AM
So how exactly does a 3rd CB have a huge impact on a game then?

Ask this question to Miles Austin and Maurice Leggett.

ChiefsCountry
04-24-2010, 01:49 AM
They don't go against their own draft board, though. Its just that Pioli's draft board doesn't seem to take into account value of any kind. Pioli identifies players that he likes and he gets those players. If it means taking a nickle/dime CB/return man in the second round then so be it. Its a strategy that is abhorrent to me but that's his thing.

Thats why I would rather had somebody from the Ravens organization.

kcpasco
04-24-2010, 01:50 AM
Jake Locker will be better then any qb in this years draft

To bad the Chiefs won't even look his way :((((((((

ChiefsCountry
04-24-2010, 01:50 AM
Ask this question to Miles Austin and Maurice Leggett.

You mean Mike Brown on that case. Leggett went for a pick, Brown missed the tackle.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 01:50 AM
Ask this question to Miles Austin and Maurice Leggett.

Uh that's Mike Brown, I like how the wrong guy constantly gets blamed around here.

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 01:51 AM
So how exactly does a 3rd CB have a huge impact on a game then?

He's not just a 3rd CB, he's the nation's best return man. That actually has value.

And you are going to tell us that having a very good 3rd QB wouldn't have made a difference against Dallas or Denver? Or hell, any other team?

Ask Rex Ryan about having three quality CB's and get back to us.

BryanBusby
04-24-2010, 01:51 AM
You mean Mike Brown on that case. Leggett went for a pick, Brown missed the tackle.

Yeah and he fucking missed. Mike Brown held a gun to his head and said, "whiff on the INT or I will blow your brains out."

Rausch
04-24-2010, 01:51 AM
Considering how often Defenses are having to play in the nickel package now a days, I'd say a problem at nickel corner is a big deal. I guess some of you must of forgot of a certain nickel that gave Smiles Austin a career game.

I'm sure a 4.5+ guy at 5'8" will solve all that...

chiefzilla1501
04-24-2010, 01:53 AM
not all problems are the same

a problem at nickel corner is not near as important as a problem at NT

and nickle cbs are easier to find than NTs

when you have 2 nts sitting in your lap in the 2nd round of a strong draft you don't draft a nickle cb (who was a reach anyways)

these decisions haunt us....

Arenas was a pick that confused me, but the Chiefs do need a Nickel Back. And if he plays well in that role, it's important enough to justify the pick. This is definitely a "we'll see" pick.

I don't really understand the disgust over the McCluster or Moeaki picks. Anyone who's disgusted about these picks needs to read up on Weis' offense. Weis doesn't give a shit about stud receivers or running backs. His entire offense revolves around versatility and deception. I'm not saying McCluster is any kind of a given, but I'm more than a little curious to see what kinds of wrinkles Weis uses him in. He could potentially be an absolute matchup nightmare for teams.

Reaper16
04-24-2010, 01:53 AM
Ask this question to Miles Austin and Maurice Leggett.
No one is going to say that we shouldn't look to improve at nickleback. If you really wanted to improve there then why not take one of the #2 CB prospects available at the time? You can have decent CBs playing nickle in their rookie year; Hell, the Jets drafted Kyle Wilson in the 1st and he'll be playing nickle this year. The problem is that Arenas' ceiling (IMO) is a nickleback.

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 01:53 AM
I'm sure a 4.5+ guy at 5'8" will solve all that...

For 14 years, it's worked for Ronde Barber

Mecca
04-24-2010, 01:53 AM
So basically a returner is worth a 2 to a team that needs a bunch of starters.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2010, 01:53 AM
You can't say that with absolute certainty.

At least this year, they took playmakers.

We'll see how it pays off in 2010 and beyond.

Dane, an honest question:

Who makes more plays, a #2 WR or a slot WR?

A pass rushing OLB, or a nickel corner?

A nose tackle, or a tight end?

Epic Fail 007
04-24-2010, 01:53 AM
wow just cause its not a known name guy for some of you flip if you follow college football you would know who he is,hes a reggie bush type player,and whoever said hes derrick blaylock part 2,lol complete bs he was picked for a slot guy but mostly a returner and pioli and haley are not stupid,maybe you want herm and carl back huh,just cause a guy, some of you want dose not get picked the cry babies come out.be a true fan or stfu,every pick that has been made except for the ol is a playmaker.our team speed is improved,we have more options now.ok u haters crack on me i don`t care/its a fact the team is more improved with these picks,one more thing pioli and haley have done more positive for this team than carl ever did and the idiot who said we can pick better players than pioli or some shit like that dude you have no clue.

BryanBusby
04-24-2010, 01:53 AM
I'm sure a 4.5+ guy at 5'8" will solve all that...

Tell me more Miss Cleo. I'm amazed you're already able to come to a conclusion before a player ever takes the field.

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 01:54 AM
No one is going to say that we shouldn't look to improve at nickleback. If you really wanted to improve there then why not take one of the #2 CB prospects available at the time? You can have decent CBs playing nickle in their rookie year; Hell, the Jets drafted Kyle Wilson in the 1st and he'll be playing nickle this year. The problem is that Arenas' ceiling (IMO) is a nickleback.

From what I've been told, Wilson will most likely start and Cro will be the nickel

Mecca
04-24-2010, 01:54 AM
For 14 years, it's worked for Ronde Barber

Are we back to playing cover 2?

KCrockaholic
04-24-2010, 01:54 AM
Miles Austin was on BOTH Brown and Leggett. You can't sit back and just say "well since Leggett went for the INT it's Brown's job to clean up if he misses." No. Bullshit. Leggett fucked up. Brown fucked up. They both fucking suck ass! What do we do? We draft Eric Berry and Javier Arenas. So fuck that shit.

keg in kc
04-24-2010, 01:55 AM
Jake Locker will be better then any qb in this years draft

To bad the Chiefs won't even look his way :((((((((I doubt they'll be in a position to look his way, although with enough quality quarterbacks, there's a chance they'll be able to get one in what will likely be the middle of the round.

Cassel is completely expendable after 2010, as far as his contract goes. And maybe I'm alone in this, but I don't think they'll have any problem cutting ties if 2010 looks like 2009. I think Pioli's desire to win is greater than whatever supposed ego-driven desire he may have to prove to the world that Cassel was the right guy. I just don't think he's going to go down with that particular ship. If it doesn't work, I think we'll see a new "the guy" in 2011.

BryanBusby
04-24-2010, 01:55 AM
Miles Austin was on BOTH Brown and Leggett. You can't sit back and just say "well since Leggett went for the INT it's Brown's job to clean up if he misses." No. Bullshit. Leggett ****ed up. Brown ****ed up. They both ****ing suck ass! What do we do? We draft Eric Berry and Javier Arenas. So **** that shit.

^^^^^

Mecca
04-24-2010, 01:56 AM
Miles Austin was on BOTH Brown and Leggett. You can't sit back and just say "well since Leggett went for the INT it's Brown's job to clean up if he misses." No. Bullshit. Leggett fucked up. Brown fucked up. They both fucking suck ass! What do we do? We draft Eric Berry and Javier Arenas. So fuck that shit.

They're still get get passed on, having no pass rush does that.

the Talking Can
04-24-2010, 01:57 AM
so the problems, in order of priority go like this?

1. midget nickel corner (a 4th in 09, a 2nd in '10)
2. injury prone TE (a 3rd in 08, a 7th 09, a 4th and 5th in '10)
3. HB slot reciever (#36 in '10)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
45. NT (no picks)
46. OLB (no picks)
47. ILB (no picks)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
134. Franchise QB (nothing)

and we're to pretend there are no long term consequences for this?

Saccopoo
04-24-2010, 01:58 AM
Considering how often Defenses are having to play in the nickel package now a days, I'd say a problem at nickel corner is a big deal. I guess some of you must of forgot of a certain nickel that gave Smiles Austin a career game.

If Arenas can effectively take care of our problems in the nickel, which were huge, and give us a solid return guy as well, then fine. I don't mind that pick. I think he would have been there in the fourth, but whatever.

And I understand that McCluster was a second/third round pick by everyone's estimation. The guy is dynamic, tore up the Senior Bowl and by playing in the SEC, showed that he can play with the big boys at his size.

However, both picks are luxuries that I don't think the Chiefs could have afforded at that point. If they were the Vikings (which fucking killed it by picking Gerhart) or the Saints or Colts or the like, where you don't have many holes and can pick those luxury players at luxury positions (slot, nickel, returner), then that's fine. However, the Chiefs have a lot of problems in terms of core positions that needed to be addressed, such as RT, NT, C, LB, WR.

And to trade up for Moeaki when Pitta and Hernandez and McCoy (and Moeaki himself) were likely to be there in the fourth round (along with several legit nose tackles), is completely asinine.

If Denver ends up with Cam Thomas or Torrell Troup or Dennis Pitta or Aaron Hernandez in the fourth, which they most likely will, it's going to suck balls.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2010, 01:58 AM
Here's the thing:

If you want to take someone to be a nightmare in the slot, why not take Golden Tate, who is not only bigger, but faster, with good hands, who is intimately familiar with the offense?

If you want to take a nickelback, why not take Brandon Ghee, who has the tools to eventually be a #2 or even #1 CB?

If you want a tight end, why not take Jimmy Graham, who has the tools to be one of the best players in the game?

Not only did they take players at relatively unimportant positions (relative to both the value on the board and team impact), they universally took the inferior prospects.

keg in kc
04-24-2010, 01:58 AM
Dane, an honest question:

Who makes more plays, a #2 WR or a slot WR?

A pass rushing OLB, or a nickel corner?

A nose tackle, or a tight end?I'm not sure "slot WR" is the right way to term it, if they're really looking to make him the Chiefs version of Wesley Welker (Chris Mortensen's words, not mine...). The guy has 346 catches the last 3 years.

If that's what they're shooting for, I'd call it pretty valuable.

chiefzilla1501
04-24-2010, 02:00 AM
I'm sure a 4.5+ guy at 5'8" will solve all that...

Dude, there is no way you can watch the guy play and actually believe he runs at that speed. He was outrunning secondaries.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Throw-out-Dexter-McClusters-40-times.html
Even if for some weird reason, you actually believe he's that slow, he did dominate the short shuttle run. Was the best in the RB class.

If he turns out to be Darren Sproles, I'm okay with that.

Reaper16
04-24-2010, 02:00 AM
From what I've been told, Wilson will most likely start and Cro will be the nickel
Interesting. Thanks.
I think my point still stand without the Jets example.

KCrockaholic
04-24-2010, 02:00 AM
They're still get get passed on, having no pass rush does that.

They get passed on, but when you have a guy without his head up his ass like Mike Brown did you will be more successful. Let me put it this way. We beat Dallas is we have Eric Berry and Javier Arenas on our team in 2009. Shit. Nevermind. I'm glad Brown and Leggett suck ass. They allowed us to swap their asses for real football players.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2010, 02:00 AM
If Cassel was expendable after 2010, we wouldn't have devoted 4 of our picks (including trade) taking players who were almost all reaches, in order to cover for his bitch ass.

Cassel will be here indefinitely. And I'm sure that he'll grade out with 0 mistakes, just like I'm sure Pioli will grade out with 0 mistakes from this draft.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2010, 02:01 AM
I'm not sure "slot WR" is the right way to term it, if they're really looking to make him the Chiefs version of Wesley Welker (Chris Mortensen's words, not mine...). The guy has 346 catches the last 3 years.

If that's what they're shooting for, I'd call it pretty valuable.

Randy Moss isn't walking through that door, keg.

lostcause
04-24-2010, 02:01 AM
The hypocrisy is stunning. For weeks the threads have been blowing up on this board about how the 'True Fan' wants an OT when we 'need' playmakers - so thus Berry needs to be the pick and to hell with the idiot True Fan. Now, we spend our 2nd rounders on playmakers, improving the offense and return game, instead of fat slobs in the middle of the line and apparently we've taken a left turn to draft hell. We added a NT in free agency - he ain't pretty or special, but you don't have to have a pretty NT to be effective. This team is better at blocking/recieving/returning and coverage then it was at 5:00 pm on thursday. And All of these rookies have the potential to contribute.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 02:02 AM
We took inferior prospects to what was available at the positions on top of taking positions that really aren't that valuable.

Am I really suppose to believe that a WR/RB project dude and a nickel CB that does kick returns is move valuable than a NT a pass rusher or a potential franchise QB?

Rausch
04-24-2010, 02:02 AM
Tell me more Miss Cleo. I'm amazed you're already able to come to a conclusion before a player ever takes the field.

No, you're the fan of the pick.

Explain to me how adding yet another guy who's undersized and slow for the position IMPROVES the team.

Flowers did great in the 1/2 assed cover 2 and last year when Carr was slow to react in press. The greater weakness was exposed.

So we add ANOTHER short CB with low top end speed and that helps us....HOW?...

Reaper16
04-24-2010, 02:03 AM
I'm not sure "slot WR" is the right way to term it, if they're really looking to make him the Chiefs version of Wesley Welker (Chris Mortensen's words, not mine...). The guy has 346 catches the last 3 years.

If that's what they're shooting for, I'd call it pretty valuable.
Welker can't even be Welker without a deep threat. That doesn't bode very well for the Chiefs.

|Zach|
04-24-2010, 02:03 AM
The hypocrisy is stunning. For weeks the threads have been blowing up on this board about how the 'True Fan' wants an OT when we 'need' playmakers - so thus Berry needs to be the pick and to hell with the idiot True Fan. Now, we spend our 2nd rounders on playmakers, improving the offense and return game, instead of fat slobs in the middle of the line and apparently we've taken a left turn to draft hell. We added a NT in free agency - he ain't pretty or special, but you don't have to have a pretty NT to be effective. This team is better at blocking/recieving/returning and coverage then it was at 5:00 pm on thursday. And All of these rookies have the potential to contribute.

http://i39.tinypic.com/izmg4m.jpg

HotRoute
04-24-2010, 02:03 AM
If he is going to be a WR what number do we suppose he will wear

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 02:03 AM
Dane, an honest question:

Who makes more plays, a #2 WR or a slot WR?

A pass rushing OLB, or a nickel corner?

A nose tackle, or a tight end?

I know where you're trying to lead me and I can only answer like this:

Apparently, Pioli felt the value at slot was higher than the value at OLB.

Apparently, Pioli felt the value at CB/Returner was higher than that at NT.

At this point in time, I'm not going to pass judgment because the Chiefs need ALL of those positions.

And the last thing I'm going to criticize beforehand is the choice of playmakers, which is exactly what I accused him of NOT taking last year.

I'm going to let this one run its course before making a determination. If it pays off, he's almost even for last year. If it doesn't, he's dug himself an even greater hole.

keg in kc
04-24-2010, 02:03 AM
Randy Moss isn't walking through that door, keg.I'm glad you're here to point these things out. I don't know what we'd ever do without you.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 02:03 AM
Randy Moss has made Welkers career, why is this not grasped? Without Moss teams would just sit on Welker and wait to jump those routes.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2010, 02:03 AM
They get passed on, but when you have a guy without his head up his ass like Mike Brown did you will be more successful. Let me put it this way. We beat Dallas is we have Eric Berry and Javier Arenas on our team in 2009. Shit. Nevermind. I'm glad Brown and Leggett suck ass. They allowed us to swap their asses for real football players.

And if you also give Dallas Dez Bryant do we still win that game?

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 02:04 AM
Welker can't even be Welker without a deep threat. That doesn't bode very well for the Chiefs.

This year.

That doesn't make him a bad choice.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 02:04 AM
I'm glad you're here to point these things out. I don't know what we'd ever do without you.

Uh it's a valid point, you think Welker puts anything up remotely close to what he does if he's not playing with Randy Moss?

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2010, 02:04 AM
I know where you're trying to lead me and I can only answer like this:

Apparently, Pioli felt the value at slot was higher than the value at OLB.

Apparently, Pioli felt the value at CB/Returner was higher than that at NT.

At this point in time, I'm not going to pass judgment because the Chiefs need ALL of those positions.

And the last thing I'm going to criticize beforehand is the choice of playmakers, which is exactly what I accused him of NOT taking last year.

I'm going to let this one run its course before making a determination. If it pays off, he's almost even for last year. If it doesn't, he's dug himself an even greater hole.

"A nickel corner and return man. Chiefs are drafting backups in Round 2 this year."--Scott Wright.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-24-2010, 02:04 AM
http://i39.tinypic.com/izmg4m.jpg

LMAO That's hilarious.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 02:05 AM
So McCluster will be good the day we get a deep threat like Randy Moss, ok so when McCluster is 57 years old.

|Zach|
04-24-2010, 02:05 AM
And if you also give Dallas Dez Bryant do we still win that game?

Did you read that thing about a Dez Bryant medical condition. I was trying to read it on my mobile at dinner but got distracted.

BryanBusby
04-24-2010, 02:05 AM
"A nickel corner and return man. Chiefs are drafting backups in Round 2 this year."--Scott Wright.

"Bryan Bulaga will be the Chiefs first round draft pick." --Scott Wright

KCrockaholic
04-24-2010, 02:06 AM
And if you also give Dallas Dez Bryant do we still win that game?

Possibly, but probably not. I don't know how any team not named the Jets can cover the Cowboys in 2010.

chiefzilla1501
04-24-2010, 02:06 AM
Dane, an honest question:

Who makes more plays, a #2 WR or a slot WR?

A pass rushing OLB, or a nickel corner?

A nose tackle, or a tight end?

While I understand your point, you're assuming that the Chiefs should be drafting based on need.

I agree with your post that asks about whether McCluster, Arenas, or Moeaki offer better value than other similar guys at their position.

For McCluster, he offers a lot more versatility than Tate does. For Moeaki, he offers a lot more versatility--he's a terrific blocker who can catch the ball, while Graham is a high upside receiving TE who can't block. McCluster is a pick that's going to have to pass a significant sniff test, but if the intent is to use him as a Sproles type player where you move him around all over the field, it has potential to be a pretty decent pick.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 02:06 AM
One team said Bryant has an irregular heartbeat.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 02:06 AM
"Bryan Bulaga will be the Chiefs first round draft pick." --Scott Wright

Having a bad mock draft and having opinions of players are not the same.

I don't think there's 1 person other than Scott Pioli that thought Javier Arenas was a 2nd round pick.

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 02:07 AM
"A nickel corner and return man. Chiefs are drafting backups in Round 2 this year."--Scott Wright.

No offense to you, but Scott Wrght's the same dumbass that said the Chiefs were taking an O-lineman in the draft, wouldn't take my question in his draft chat and said a bunch of other stupid shit (which I copied and pasted but can't remember).

He's a fucking guy with a website.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 02:07 AM
While I understand your point, you're assuming that the Chiefs should be drafting based on need.

I agree with your post that asks about whether McCluster, Arenas, or Moeaki offer better value than other similar guys at their position.

For McCluster, he offers a lot more versatility than Tate does. For Moeaki, he offers a lot more versatility--he's a terrific blocker who can catch the ball, while Graham is a high upside receiving TE who can't block. McCluster is a pick that's going to have to pass a significant sniff test, but if the intent is to use him as a Sproles type player where you move him around all over the field, it has potential to be a pretty decent pick.

If you're not drafting for need and you're not taking the best players available at the positions you're drafting, what exactly do you call your draft approach?

Reaper16
04-24-2010, 02:07 AM
So McCluster will be good the day we get a deep threat like Randy Moss, ok so when McCluster is 57 years old.
Potentially in next year's draft, to be fair.

lostcause
04-24-2010, 02:08 AM
We took inferior prospects to what was available at the positions on top of taking positions that really aren't that valuable.

Am I really suppose to believe that a WR/RB project dude and a nickel CB that does kick returns is move valuable than a NT a pass rusher or a potential franchise QB?

I'm sure that if Weiss felt that Tate was a better offensive weapon than McCluster - we would have probably gone that route. I would have been curious to see Benn with an Arrowhead, but we did pick up a guy that looks very dangerous in a lot of ways. As I said, they addressed NT in free-agency and thus had the 'luxury' to grab the premier returner in the draft. As for franchise QB, why not ride Cassell one more year and hit up the real QB draft next year for that guy instead of taking a pass on Weiss's guy - who obviously didn't make the grade.

Reaper16
04-24-2010, 02:08 AM
If you're not drafting for need and you're not taking the best players available at the positions you're drafting, what exactly do you call your draft approach?
The Patriot Way?

BryanBusby
04-24-2010, 02:08 AM
Having a bad mock draft and having opinions of players are not the same.

I don't think there's 1 person other than Scott Pioli that thought Javier Arenas was a 2nd round pick.

Funny you mention this, because Scott Wright put Arenas going to the Colts in Round 2 for his final mock.

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 02:08 AM
Having a bad mock draft and having opinions of players are not the same.

I don't think there's 1 person other than Scott Pioli that thought Javier Arenas was a 2nd round pick.

Or Eric Berry

|Zach|
04-24-2010, 02:08 AM
If you're not drafting for need and you're not taking the best players available at the positions you're drafting, what exactly do you call your draft approach?

Having all the information and making decisions.

ChiefsCountry
04-24-2010, 02:09 AM
Hell I picked Arenas in our mock draft. I like him, but not 2nd round like him.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 02:09 AM
Potentially in next year's draft, to be fair.

And you trust this team to make a proper pick...just sayin.

OleMissCub
04-24-2010, 02:09 AM
Dude, there is no way you can watch the guy play and actually believe he runs at that speed. He was outrunning secondaries.

No kidding. That criticism of him is completely ridiculous because anyone with a brain and a set of eyes can tell he is running at about 4.4 speed (which is what he ran at his pro days).

keg in kc
04-24-2010, 02:10 AM
Welker can't even be Welker without a deep threat. That doesn't bode very well for the Chiefs.It took Welker a few years to become Welker. I think it's safe to assume that McCluster or anybody else drafted yesterday isn't going to be him out of the gates, either. So they probably have some time to find that deep threat. Assuming that's not Chambers' role.

I'm still way more worried about Cassel than anybody else at this point. He's now and forever going to be the cog that makes this thing either work or fail.

And I still say he's expendable if he has a bad season. I don't think you can discount the possibility that not drafting Clausen was as much a statement about Clausen as it was about Cassel. I think the league made a statement of something we already knew, that this was not a strong QB draft. 2011 is probably going to be a different story...

I also think, though, that they look at Cassel as someone they can make a better player (part of the reason Weis is here...) in 2010, whereas I think we (I include me in this) have already written him off.

ChiefsCountry
04-24-2010, 02:10 AM
Potentially in next year's draft, to be fair.

We still won't have a QB though.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2010, 02:11 AM
No kidding. That criticism of him is completely ridiculous because anyone with a brain and a set of eyes can tell he is running at about 4.4 speed (which is what he ran at his pro days).

Everyone's pro day numbers are inflated by .15 seconds.

lostcause
04-24-2010, 02:11 AM
Randy Moss has made Welkers career, why is this not grasped? Without Moss teams would just sit on Welker and wait to jump those routes.

That is simply not true. Moss helped Welker, but Wes was proving to be a dangerous wide receiver in Miami before he was traded to the Pats.

Rausch
04-24-2010, 02:12 AM
I know where you're trying to lead me and I can only answer like this:

Apparently, Pioli felt the value at slot was higher than the value at OLB.

Apparently, Pioli felt the value at CB/Returner was higher than that at NT.

At this point in time, I'm not going to pass judgment because the Chiefs need ALL of those positions.

And the last thing I'm going to criticize beforehand is the choice of playmakers, which is exactly what I accused him of NOT taking last year.

I'm going to let this one run its course before making a determination. If it pays off, he's almost even for last year. If it doesn't, he's dug himself an even greater hole.

Dane done become an optomist...

TURNING and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 02:13 AM
Seriously, the amount of fucking bullshit perpetrated by some people is not only fucking stupid but disingenuous.

Reaper16
04-24-2010, 02:13 AM
It took Welker a few years to become Welker. I think it's safe to assume that McCluster or anybody else drafted yesterday isn't going to be him out of the gates, either. So they probably have some time to find that deep threat. Assuming that's not Chambers' role.

So... this sounds like you think McCluster is something of a project.

That is simply not true. Moss helped Welker, but Wes was proving to be a dangerous wide receiver in Miami before he was traded to the Pats.
Mecca didn't say that he wasn't a good player. He's saying that Welker is so prolific in NE because of Moss as a deep threat.

chiefzilla1501
04-24-2010, 02:14 AM
If you're not drafting for need and you're not taking the best players available at the positions you're drafting, what exactly do you call your draft approach?

Because you're talking about taking an OLB or a NT for the sake of taking those positions. That's drafting based on need.

And BPA is relative. McCluster and Moeaki could both be extremely valuable to a Weis offense. Like I said, Weis values versatility a lot more than he values players who do one thing well. He wants TEs who can block as well as they pass, so that he can deceive defenses. Same applies for a RB who can catch--probably the main reason they really seemed to covet Sproles.

The Chiefs were considering trading for Sproles, probably for the same pick they used for McCluster. And I think they would have been used in a similar way.

OleMissCub
04-24-2010, 02:14 AM
Everyone's pro day numbers are inflated by .15 seconds.

lol, ok fine. The dude runs a 4.4, seriously. The fact that a question about his speed is even an issue at this point is a bit silly. He was the fastest guy on the field when he played his games in the fastest conference.

stevieray
04-24-2010, 02:16 AM
Seriously, the amount of ****ing bullshit perpetrated by some people is not only ****ing stupid but disingenuous.


seems every year it becomes about individual, rather than team.

Rausch
04-24-2010, 02:16 AM
And BPA is relative. McCluster and Moeaki could both be extremely valuable to a Weis offense. Like I said, Weis values versatility a lot more than he values players who do one thing well. He wants TEs who can block as well as they pass, so that he can deceive defenses. Same applies for a RB who can catch--probably the main reason they really seemed to covet Sproles.


Moeaki is a TERRIBLE fucking blocker...

Chocolate Hog
04-24-2010, 02:16 AM
Are people really trying to argue McCluster is slow?

|Zach|
04-24-2010, 02:17 AM
It will be interesting to see how this all pans out. There were some surprises. I question the TE pick the most I would say...but not really angry enough about it to go throat punch a cop with my dick.

lostcause
04-24-2010, 02:17 AM
So... this sounds like you think McCluster is something of a project.


Mecca didn't say that he wasn't a good player. He's saying that Welker is so prolific in NE because of Moss as a deep threat.

Fine. Would Welker be putting up 110 catches a season in Miami. No. Would he be putting up 80-90. Yes. For god's sake, the Pats traded a 2nd and a 7th for him. In today's prices, I could buy Brandon Marshall and Anquan Boldin for that kind of a deal. The kid can flat out play and Moss maybe adds 15-20 catches a season for him.

BryanBusby
04-24-2010, 02:17 AM
Funny you mention this, because Scott Wright put Arenas going to the Colts in Round 2 for his final mock.

Quotin dis again for Page 30.

Scott Wright is a complete tool. He denied up and down there was any chance at all of the Chiefs not taking Eric Berry at 5. Chiefs fans on his own board called his dumbassery, the Chiefs select Eric Berry and he acts completely shocked when they take Eric Berry. Says Pioli is dumb ass hell for taking a reserve in the 2nd round, but projects him to be drafted in the 2nd round in his very own mock right before the draft.

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 02:17 AM
Dane done become an optomist...

Amazing poem, BTW.

It's really more due to the fact that Pioli chose proven college playmakers. Guys that proved over and over again they can actually play, unlike last year.

There are so many holes that they couldn't have been filled by one draft, but this is promising.

Now if next year they take another returner, guard, slot receiver, etc., then this draft will have been Epic Fail 2.0. But I'm not ready to declare it a failure today.

Far from it.

|Zach|
04-24-2010, 02:17 AM
seems every year it becomes about individual, rather than team.

Yes, it doesn't matter what the team does or doesn't do. It is just information for that person to adjust to relatively.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2010, 02:17 AM
No offense to you, but Scott Wrght's the same dumbass that said the Chiefs were taking an O-lineman in the draft, wouldn't take my question in his draft chat and said a bunch of other stupid shit (which I copied and pasted but can't remember).

He's a fucking guy with a website.

He's a fucking guy with a website who, while wrong about who he thought the Chiefs would take, is not a dumbass. His player projections are generally quite accurate, and he attends all of the major events and has access to tape.

If you don't believe him, check out Walter Football, or ESPN, who called the McCluster pick a head scratcher, or many of the people on this very website whose opinions you have personally said that you respect and value.

ChiefsCountry
04-24-2010, 02:18 AM
Fine. Would Welker be putting up 110 catches a season in Miami. No. Would he be putting up 80-90. Yes. For god's sake, the Pats traded a 2nd and a 7th for him. In today's prices, I could buy Brandon Marshall and Anquan Boldin for that kind of a deal. The kid can flat out play and Moss maybe adds 15-20 catches a season for him.

Welker's best season in Miami was 67 catches, I doubt he would put up 80 or 90.

Chocolate Hog
04-24-2010, 02:18 AM
It will be interesting to see how this all pans out. There were some surprises. I question the TE pick the most I would say...but not really angry enough about it to go throat punch a cop with my dick.

The Arenas and trade for the Iowa Tight end were stupid. But Pioli can come away with some talent tommorow we might have three starters and a game changer?

BryanBusby
04-24-2010, 02:19 AM
He's a ****ing guy with a website who, while wrong about who he thought the Chiefs would take, is not a dumbass. His player projections are generally quite accurate, and he attends all of the major events and has access to tape.

If you don't believe him, check out Walter Football, or ESPN, who called the McCluster pick a head scratcher, or many of the people on this very website whose opinions you have personally said that you respect and value.

having a website=!genius

Athan must be a genius himself.

|Zach|
04-24-2010, 02:19 AM
The Arenas and trade for the Iowa Tight end were stupid. But Pioli can come away with some talent tommorow we might have three starters and a game changer?

I am just ready for the football. Enough of this draft and baseball horse shit.

Saccopoo
04-24-2010, 02:19 AM
It will be interesting to see how this all pans out. There were some surprises. I question the TE pick the most I would say...but not really angry enough about it to go throat punch a cop with my dick.

You should be, especially considering the guys at the tight end spot that would have been on the board in the fourth round when the Chiefs picked. That fifth round pick we had was huge. It got pissed away.

ChiefsCountry
04-24-2010, 02:20 AM
Well we came away with a future All-Pro Safety and All-Pro Guard out of the draft, so its not a total failure like last year.

keg in kc
04-24-2010, 02:21 AM
So... this sounds like you think McCluster is something of a project.I think the best way to verbalize what I believe is to say that I think every wide receiver is a project, with the exception of the very rare ones that go in the stratosphere of the top 5. Which is why I said McCluster or any other receiver drafted yesterday....

I actually think that position may be one of if not the most difficult to make the transtion from college to pro. I think it's a lot more likely to see a player really blossom in his 3rd or 4th year than see one start out really hot as a rookie.

That's part of the reason I said this is a big year for Bowe a few pages back. If he doesn't break out this year, odds are he never will.

So me saying I don't expect McCluster to be Welker right out the gates is not saying I think he's a project. I don't think anybody would be Welker right out the gates...

Chocolate Hog
04-24-2010, 02:21 AM
I am just ready for the football. Enough of this draft and baseball horse shit.

I'm ready for the Chiefs to win for once. My favorite college team went from a joke to being a competitor why can't the Chiefs?

|Zach|
04-24-2010, 02:21 AM
You should be, especially considering the guys at the tight end spot that would have been on the board in the fourth round when the Chiefs picked. That fifth round pick we had was huge. It got pissed away.

I'm not. Maybe it is because I had a really good steak tonight. Not sure.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2010, 02:21 AM
If I came to you a day and a half ago and offered you

Eric Berry, Jimmy Clausen, Terrance Cody, Damien Williams, and Everson Griffen through the first 4 rounds and sacrificing 5c and told you instead that we took

Eric Berry, Dexter McCluster, Javier Arenas, Jon Asamoah, and Tony Moeaki

Are you honestly telling me that you wouldn't be incredibly disappointed to have the second instead of the first?

Honestly?

|Zach|
04-24-2010, 02:22 AM
I'm ready for the Chiefs to win for once. My favorite college team went from a joke to being a competitor why can't the Chiefs?

I feel good about the trajectory of the team.

KC kid
04-24-2010, 02:22 AM
Mecca,
I respect your opinion and you are a top ten poster on this board. I do think the crying about this draft is a little over the top. If you replace Javier Arenas with a better defensive player to stop the run, I think this draft is terrific.

I call you out a little though because last year the chiefs went more on need and you screamed for bpa. Seems like they are TRYING to do bpa and you are still screaming.

Let's just admit you cherry pick a few guys, and if the Chiefs do not pick them, they messed up. I do admit your cherry picked guys tend to be pretty good.

Also, I remember you loving you some CJ Spiller to KC. McCluster is a similar gamebreaker

Chocolate Hog
04-24-2010, 02:22 AM
If I came to you a day and a half ago and offered you

Eric Berry, Jimmy Clausen, Terrance Cody, Damien Williams, and Everson Griffen through the first 4 rounds and sacrificing 5c and told you instead that we took

Eric Berry, Dexter McCluster, Javier Arenas, Jon Asamoah, and Tony Moeaki

Are you honestly telling me that you wouldn't be incredibly disappointed to have the second instead of the first?

Honestly?

Who isn't dissapointed with it? I am but I certainly don't think this draft is as bad as last year.

lostcause
04-24-2010, 02:22 AM
He's a ****ing guy with a website who, while wrong about who he thought the Chiefs would take, is not a dumbass. His player projections are generally quite accurate, and he attends all of the major events and has access to tape.

If you don't believe him, check out Walter Football, or ESPN, who called the McCluster pick a head scratcher, or many of the people on this very website whose opinions you have personally said that you respect and value.

The other answer here is (and yes this requires 'the faith') that Pioli, Haley, Crennel and Weiss all got together and decided that the Tackle position was going to be ok. That the LB position was going to be ok. And that the NT position was going to be ok. And that the QB position was going to be ok and that we could afford to start finding ways to make our team dangerous.

I know that this is a brutal concept to accept. But you do have 3 fantastic coordinators and a quality GM pulling the strings. Perhaps they might possibly have a feel about our developing young talent.

KC kid
04-24-2010, 02:23 AM
Everyone's pro day numbers are inflated by .15 seconds.

McCluster's 40 time would be .15 better if he cut that hair

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 02:23 AM
He's a fucking guy with a website who, while wrong about who he thought the Chiefs would take, is not a dumbass. His player projections are generally quite accurate, and he attends all of the major events and has access to tape.

If you don't believe him, check out Walter Football, or ESPN, who called the McCluster pick a head scratcher, or many of the people on this very website whose opinions you have personally said that you respect and value.

I don't like Scott Wright.

With that said, Kiper had McCluster in his top ten when the Chiefs chose. SI has him as a good pick.

The bottom line is that they could all be wrong and he could bust. Or, he could be top 15 value.

Personally, I don't have a problem "reaching" for someone they believe is a playmaker. I'd rather bust on that than a Washington, Magee, Jackson, Brown, etc.

Yes, my standards have become that low.

BryanBusby
04-24-2010, 02:23 AM
If I came to you a day and a half ago and offered you

Eric Berry, Jimmy Clausen, Terrance Cody, Damien Williams, and Everson Griffen through the first 4 rounds and sacrificing 5c and told you instead that we took

Eric Berry, Dexter McCluster, Javier Arenas, Jon Asamoah, and Tony Moeaki

Are you honestly telling me that you wouldn't be incredibly disappointed to have the second instead of the first?

Honestly?
Here it is, folks.

"THIS DRAFT SUCKS BECAUSE PIOLI DID NOT TAKE EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED Q_Q"

chiefzilla1501
04-24-2010, 02:23 AM
Everyone's pro day numbers are inflated by .15 seconds.

Actually, his 4.44 40 in the pro day are lower than Sproles'. And his 4.58 time in the combine could be blamed on poor combine coaching. I believe he stumbled out of the gate on one of those and ran a slightly crooked path on another. Again, you can't watch him outrun secondaries in the college level and say the guy is 4.58 slow. There's no way. You can't even outrun a LB with that speed, let alone the entire secondary.

Secondly, 40 time isn't everything. He dominated the short shuttle and was phenomenal at making cuts because he's short and stays low to the ground. We saw with LJ how speed doesn't translate into changing direction or making sudden cuts, two things McCluster does outstandingly well.

OleMissCub
04-24-2010, 02:24 AM
The wifey with RunDMC

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/dexlaac.jpg

ChiefsCountry
04-24-2010, 02:25 AM
Who isn't dissapointed with it? I am but I certainly don't think this draft is as bad as last year.

Eric Berry alone made this draft better than last year's. Asamoah was another great pick. Thats two studs out of this draft already.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2010, 02:25 AM
Here it is, folks.

"THIS DRAFT SUCKS BECAUSE PIOLI DID NOT TAKE EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED Q_Q"

There are literally 5 guys you could interchange at every other pick than Berry, and it still would have been light years better than this.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 02:25 AM
Who isn't dissapointed with it? I am but I certainly don't think this draft is as bad as last year.

Well that's saying a whole lot, I'd prefer to have higher standards than "well you didn't completely abort yourself while shit dribbled down your leg"

ChiefsCountry
04-24-2010, 02:26 AM
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/dexlaac.jpg

Where is Hootie when you need him?

Chocolate Hog
04-24-2010, 02:26 AM
Eric Berry alone made this draft better than last year's. Asamoah was another great pick. Thats two studs out of this draft already.

Plus McCluster will be a good pick. With him and Charles this franchise has never seen that much speed on the field.

lostcause
04-24-2010, 02:26 AM
Welker's best season in Miami was 67 catches, I doubt he would put up 80 or 90.

Come on now. He went:

2004: 0
2005: 29
2006: 67

Traded.

This wasn't a guy plateauing in his 3rd year. To rip something off of his wiki page:

Only one player in NFL history, Gale Sayers, had more all-purpose yards in his first three NFL seasons than Welker did with the Dolphins; Welker holds the Dolphins' all-time records for total kickoff returns, kickoff return yardage, and total punt returns.

The Pats picked him up before he hit the height of his career.

|Zach|
04-24-2010, 02:26 AM
There are literally 5 guys you could interchange at every other pick than Berry, and it still would have been light years better than this.

http://learn.uci.edu/media/OC08/11004/OC0811004_UrsaMajor.jpg

KC kid
04-24-2010, 02:27 AM
I watched a lot of SEC football this year. McCluster was the fastest guy on the field. Maybe his speed translates to pads better. Football fast is obviously different than track fast

Chocolate Hog
04-24-2010, 02:27 AM
Well that's saying a whole lot, I'd prefer to have higher standards than "well you didn't completely abort yourself while shit dribbled down your leg"

Three out of Five picks will be contributors.

Count Alex's Wins
04-24-2010, 02:27 AM
If I came to you a day and a half ago and offered you

Eric Berry, Jimmy Clausen, Terrance Cody, Damien Williams, and Everson Griffen through the first 4 rounds and sacrificing 5c and told you instead that we took

Eric Berry, Dexter McCluster, Javier Arenas, Jon Asamoah, and Tony Moeaki

Are you honestly telling me that you wouldn't be incredibly disappointed to have the second instead of the first?

Honestly?

http://s5.tinypic.com/1zwm0lw_th.jpg

Mecca
04-24-2010, 02:27 AM
I don't even think anyone hates McCluster, it's more that for our team there were better picks available. Guys with equal value to McCluster that play much more valuable positions.

KC kid
04-24-2010, 02:28 AM
I don't even think anyone hates McCluster, it's more that for our team there were better picks available. Guys with equal value to McCluster that play much more valuable positions.

I am not saying you hate McCluster. I am just commenting on how you continually bring up his 40

ChiefsCountry
04-24-2010, 02:28 AM
I don't even think anyone hates McCluster, it's more that for our team there were better picks available. Guys with equal value to McCluster that play much more valuable positions.

This. Arenas the same way.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 02:29 AM
Uh I mentioned his 40 like once, don't confuse me with the other people now.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 02:29 AM
Look you can almost sell me the whole McCluster thing and make sense with it, the Arenas pick, no, that pick sucks.

KC kid
04-24-2010, 02:29 AM
This. Arenas the same way.

I agree. I am baffled by the Arenas pick. That means he will be the best of them all LMAO

Chocolate Hog
04-24-2010, 02:30 AM
Look you can almost sell me the whole McCluster thing and make sense with it, the Arenas pick, no, that pick sucks.

Arenas is the Dontrelle Savage of CB's.

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2010, 02:30 AM
I don't even think anyone hates McCluster, it's more that for our team there were better picks available. Guys with equal value to McCluster that play much more valuable positions.

But that's horseshit and you know it.

There's a HUGE difference between "value" today and value in two years.

Some of those guys that went lower will not live up to expectations because it happens every year.

The true qualifier will be if Pioli is right or wrong.

Not who they "could" have chosen.

ChiefsCountry
04-24-2010, 02:31 AM
I agree. I am baffled by the Arenas pick. That means he will be the best of them all LMAO

I picked him in the 4th in our mock draft. That is where most everybody in the country figured he would go. He is basically just a return guy in the NFL. I love him for that but being drafted in the 2nd means he has to play nickel as well.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 02:31 AM
Great, he better really hit a homerun then because this teams front 7 is horrendous and nothing has been done about it.

chiefzilla1501
04-24-2010, 02:32 AM
Moeaki is a TERRIBLE ****ing blocker...

No, he's not.

Mecca
04-24-2010, 02:32 AM
I picked him in the 4th in our mock draft. That is where most everybody in the country figured he would go. He is basically just a return guy in the NFL. I love him for that but being drafted in the 2nd means he has to play nickel as well.

He got drafted in front of several CB's who have futures as starters.

KC kid
04-24-2010, 02:32 AM
I just think McCluster is a guy that brings real quickness (not speed) to the field. I was pissed about the pick til I thought about using him in the slot, getting match ups, and breaking tackles. If you love DMac and you know the Eagles are taking him, I got no problem with that pick. Gamebreakers are not a dime a dozen.

Rausch
04-24-2010, 02:32 AM
Actually, his 4.44 40 in the pro day are lower than Sproles'. And his 4.58 time in the combine could be blamed on poor combine coaching. I believe he stumbled out of the gate on one of those and ran a slightly crooked path on another. Again, you can't watch him outrun secondaries in the college level and say the guy is 4.58 slow. There's no way. You can't even outrun a LB with that speed, let alone the entire secondary.

Secondly, 40 time isn't everything. He dominated the short shuttle and was phenomenal at making cuts because he's short and stays low to the ground. We saw with LJ how speed doesn't translate into changing direction or making sudden cuts, two things McCluster does outstandingly well.

It's not a smart pick.

Period.

Lets go ahead and say he is Dante Hall (and that is a high bar to set) he's still a long shot to last 4 years at that size getting consistently pounded by guys 3x his size.

Dominating at the college level and surviving at the pro level are completely different things...

Chocolate Hog
04-24-2010, 02:32 AM
Soren Petro was talking about Gillberry playing OLB. Can he play the position? He was great last year he needs to play more IMO.

|Zach|
04-24-2010, 02:32 AM
But that's horseshit and you know it.

There's a HUGE difference between "value" today and value in two years.

Some of those guys that went lower will not live up to expectations because it happens every year.

The true qualifier will be if Pioli is right or wrong.

Not who they "could" have chosen.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Exactly.png

Mecca
04-24-2010, 02:33 AM
Also why take Arenas when you just took McCluster isn't he a return guy too?

KC kid
04-24-2010, 02:34 AM
Mecca, I am not picking on you bro, but you are complaing about Arenas being mocked to the 4th round. However, I think you were screaming for Griffen with pick 2A. He is still available in round 4. It works both ways.