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Tribal Warfare
04-25-2010, 01:13 AM
I've heard from several sources that there was a heated debate within the Chiefs when the #36 pick came up. Weis was adamant that Classen was the pick. Pioli and Haley still believe that Cassell can be the QB that we need and we can pass on Claussen at that pick. This was Pioli's decision. Pioli's top priorites were playmakers and to add team speed.



The Chiefs were told that Philly was going to pick McCkuster so they pulled the trigger at 2a. The plan was to drat him at 2B.



Many rumors that this is Haley's last year unless there is major improvement not just in the Cheifs record but the locker room and team chemistry. I guess there were a lot of locker room issues last season and that is also what is driving Pioli with the high charector players. Sorry, but I don't know the details, all I know is that there were many issues in the locker room and with team chemistry.

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 01:20 AM
Why hire a OC if you arent going to listen to him?

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 01:21 AM
I've heard from several sources that there was a heated debate within the Chiefs when the #36 pick came up. Weis was adamant that Classen was the pick. Pioli and Haley still believe that Cassell can be the QB that we need and we can pass on Claussen at that pick. This was Pioli's decision. Pioli's top priorites were playmakers and to add team speed.



The Chiefs were told that Philly was going to pick McCkuster so they pulled the trigger at 2a. The plan was to drat him at 2B.



Many rumors that this is Haley's last year unless there is major improvement not just in the Cheifs record but the locker room and team chemistry. I guess there were a lot of locker room issues last season and that is also what is driving Pioli with the high charector players. Sorry, but I don't know the details, all I know is that there were many issues in the locker room and with team chemistry.

If that's the case, then both Haley and Pioli should be fired.

You don't draft someone at 36 who you target at 50 because someone else covets him. You let the board come to you. You also don't believe the misinformation that is out there.

You also don't fill the team with inferior talents who have good character simply because the coach is losing control of the team. If the coach loses control of the team, you fucking fire the sonofabitch, cut out the cancer, and bring in better players.

On top of that, if Pioli wanted to add team speed, why did he draft the slowest safety in the draft who does almost nothing well, and an OLB who could barely crack a 5-flat 40?

Either your source is off or Pioli is a complete idiot piece of shit.

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 01:30 AM
Funny thing is Clausen went two picks ahead of KC? They traded all that for an injured tight end but didn't trade up for a franchise QB. This franchise is ran by morons.

mcaj22
04-25-2010, 01:31 AM
Anybody with a brain knew Philly was going safety with that early 2nd round pick. They were so high on the safeties and worked out Berry, Earl Thomas and Nate Allen just like the Chiefs did prior to the draft. They were taking Nate Allen there, the last of the first round talent graded safeties, I'd imagine someone told the Chiefs that Philly was going to take McShitter and the Chiefs clearly got cold feet and shit themselves. I'm sure Philly might have been targeting him with their second 2nd rounder. Like the NFL network said, a team like the Eagles has the option to take a luxury pick that early, when you only win 4 games, there is no point in making that pick.

This is just a sad draft if its the case of the Chiefs front office protecting themselves, instead of going for clear best player available to your needs.

mcaj22
04-25-2010, 01:33 AM
Funny thing is Clausen went two picks ahead of KC? They traded all that for an injured tight end but didn't trade up for a franchise QB. This franchise is ran by morons.



yeah this move was pure stupidity also.

Tribal Warfare
04-25-2010, 01:33 AM
Pioli a complete idiot piece of shit.


This

tk13
04-25-2010, 01:38 AM
Anybody with a brain knew Philly was going safety with that early 2nd round pick. They were so high on the safeties and worked out Berry, Earl Thomas and Nate Allen just like the Chiefs did prior to the draft. They were taking Nate Allen there, the last of the first round talent graded safeties, I'd imagine someone told the Chiefs that Philly was going to take McShitter and the Chiefs clearly got cold feet and shit themselves. I'm sure Philly might have been targeting him with their second 2nd rounder. Like the NFL network said, a team like the Eagles has the option to take a luxury pick that early, when you only win 4 games, there is no point in making that pick.

This is just a sad draft if its the case of the Chiefs front office protecting themselves, instead of going for clear best player available to your needs.

Sal Palontonio said the Eagles war room was ready to draft McCluster with that upcoming pick, and were stunned when we picked him.

He's usually very well connected to the Philly sports scene, so I think that info was fairly accurate. But who knows. Plus if that was a lie they wouldn't even bring it up, why do they care to rationalize our draft.

mcaj22
04-25-2010, 01:43 AM
Sal Palontonio said the Eagles war room was ready to draft McCluster with that upcoming pick, and were stunned when we picked him.

He's usually very well connected to the Philly sports scene, so I think that info was fairly accurate. But who knows. Plus if that was a lie they wouldn't even bring it up.


Pretty sure teams say stuff like this all time. They could have said that just so the Chiefs were forced to pick there rather than trade the spot away for someone to jump ahead of Philly to take Nate Allen.

Look at this way if the Eagles DONT leak that kind of information, true or false, than the Chiefs might think McCrapper would fall to us at 50, thus our 36 could have been used on another actual real need or a player that the fans wanted (like Clausen). I have no idea if this email is true or not, but it seems like they themselves know that it was a HUGE reach at 36 and they really arent trying to justify it other than with: "good dude great character loves to smile and will help dress KC Wolfe before the game!"

The Bad Guy
04-25-2010, 01:49 AM
Interesting info. But the news I got tonight was that Weis had no desire to be reunited with Clausen.

I was also told that the coordinators absolutely have input into player picks. Crennel was all over Berry for example. He wanted to run his pro day because of how much Monte Kiffin hyped him to Romeo.

I also don't believe that Haley is on any sort of hot seat, nor that the locker room was a problem last year. The problem in the locker room was Larry Johnson. Players continued to play hard for Haley all year. I really think Haley is an ascending coach. Romeo and Charlie also would not have signed on if Haley was just going to be here one year. Charlie has no desire to ever be a head coach again so he's not angling for anything. Romeo might, but I'm pretty confident Pioli is staying the course with Haley.

tk13
04-25-2010, 01:49 AM
I don't know, I guess because I don't think the Eagles picking the guy is that much of a stretch... they'd use him in a Westbrook role. He sounds like the perfect guy for that.

The Bad Guy
04-25-2010, 01:50 AM
Sal Palontonio said the Eagles war room was ready to draft McCluster with that upcoming pick, and were stunned when we picked him.

He's usually very well connected to the Philly sports scene, so I think that info was fairly accurate. But who knows. Plus if that was a lie they wouldn't even bring it up, why do they care to rationalize our draft.

Yes, this is all true.

My best friend is a diehard Eagles fan. He told me earlier in the day they were targeting McCluster with their 2nd rounder they got for McNabb.

DumbHillbillies
04-25-2010, 01:52 AM
Cassell is this regimes QB, win or lose, they have made their choice. OCs, coach offense and GMs have the final decision on players chosen.

tk13
04-25-2010, 01:54 AM
Yeah, I believe teams leak info to try to manipulate other teams. But they wouldn't use Sal Paolantonio like that. What's he gonna do, run to the Chiefs and tell them the Eagles plan? He'd be froze out forever if he did that, and he was all over it the second we picked McCluster.

tk13
04-25-2010, 01:55 AM
Do you know why Weis had no desire to be with Clausen? I find that pretty shocking.

penchief
04-25-2010, 01:57 AM
If that's the case, then both Haley and Pioli should be fired.

You don't draft someone at 36 who you target at 50 because someone else covets him. You let the board come to you. You also don't believe the misinformation that is out there.

You also don't fill the team with inferior talents who have good character simply because the coach is losing control of the team. If the coach loses control of the team, you ****ing fire the sonofabitch, cut out the cancer, and bring in better players.

On top of that, if Pioli wanted to add team speed, why did he draft the slowest safety in the draft who does almost nothing well, and an OLB who could barely crack a 5-flat 40?

Either your source is off or Pioli is a complete idiot piece of shit.

Or this is just more speculation. But of course it feeds the notion that Pioli and Haley are dumbshits lets roll with it. I can't believe how people will allow themselves to become personally invested in their opinions about players. Face it. You were off on Clausen. He was not perceived to be a franchise quarterback by anyone. Cassel or not.

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 02:02 AM
Or this is just more speculation. But of course it feeds the notion that Pioli and Haley are dumbshits lets roll with it. I can't believe how people will allow themselves to become personally invested in their opinions about players. Face it. You were off on Clausen. He was not perceived to be a franchise quarterback by anyone. Cassel or not.

Is that why he'll be competing for the starting QB position with the Panthers?

penchief
04-25-2010, 02:08 AM
Is that why he'll be competing for the starting QB position with the Panthers?

I'd expect him to get a shot. Every draftee on this team is going to get a shot to play. But that doesn't mean we should have taken him at 5. Or even at 36. Clearly, nobody in this league felt he was rated as highly as the Clausen ball lickers around here did.

crazycoffey
04-25-2010, 02:08 AM
Funny thing is Clausen went two picks ahead of KC? They traded all that for an injured tight end but didn't trade up for a franchise QB. This franchise is ran by morons.


but clausen isn't a franchise QB because he wasn't drafted in the first round.....

Wilson8
04-25-2010, 02:11 AM
Do you know why Weis had no desire to be with Clausen? I find that pretty shocking.

Charlie does not swing that way. A guy that talked to him in Best Buy told me so. ;)

Thig Lyfe
04-25-2010, 02:21 AM
Do you know why Weis had no desire to be with Clausen? I find that pretty shocking.

Who said that?

splatbass
04-25-2010, 02:26 AM
Look at this way if the Eagles DONT leak that kind of information, true or false, than the Chiefs might think McCrapper would fall to us at 50, thus our 36 could have been used on another actual real need or a player that the fans wanted (like Clausen).

Any GM that drafts based on what the fans want should be immediately fired. It isn't a popularity contest.

penchief
04-25-2010, 02:26 AM
but clausen isn't a franchise QB because he wasn't drafted in the first round.....

The point is that the self-proclaimed experts were claiming that Clausen was a franchise quarterback worthy of the fifth overall pick. Clearly they were wrong. And they were ready to condemn Pioli and Haley if the chiefs didn't take either him or Berry at five.

How would they know that Clausen was a franchise quarterback? Because it was obvious? If it was so obvious to them why wasn't it obvious to every team in the league. I'm no expert but even I had reservations. Now, he may prove to be a franchise quarterback but that isn't the point, either. McCoy or Tebow could prove to be a franchise quarterback.

What this proves is that their evaluation of Clausen did not jibe with the rest of the league. And it validates the opinions of those who had reservations about Clausen. It proves that the know-it-alls didn't have it right. And it was probably because they invested themselves in the conventional wisdom instead of coming to their own conclusions.

tk13
04-25-2010, 02:27 AM
Right up there... read The Bad Guy's post.

But remember, Weis said QB, he didn't say Clausen. :)

But really, I guess it's not that shocking. It's possible he was tired of Clausen's crap. We never even really considered that.

mjdoesnfl
04-25-2010, 02:27 AM
I think the draft has gone really well. Maybe that's because it's harder to evaluate lineman. But we desperately needed another playmaker on O besides the skinny fast guy, or he won't make it the half way point for all the attention he'll get.

Also our secondary was extremely slow - does anyone know how many TD's we gave up on long runs after the catch last year? I don't but it was probably the highest in the NFL.

Football teams have big locker rooms, there is always a lot of different opinions floating around. When Billicheck at NE 'lost' his locker room the captains went to him and said you can't do the things you're doing and so he addressed them instead and they cascaded it down. I'm sure that this lesson is not lost on Pioli, he wants to be tough but he knows that he needs a core of guys to help him keep people believing. They might hate him, but as long as they believe then we have a chance.

Personally it's not my way, but there are lots of different ways to win things. I went to state with a baseball coach we all hated, but he gave us a focus to rally around (our hatred of him) and although I found it difficult to admit, this does actually work.

**Those of you in the military may recognize this from your boot ;)

tk13
04-25-2010, 02:34 AM
The point is that the self-proclaimed experts were claiming that Clausen was a franchise quarterback worthy of the fifth overall pick. Clearly they were wrong. And they were ready to condemn Pioli and Haley if the chiefs didn't take either him or Berry at five.

How would they know that Clausen was a franchise quarterback? Because it was obvious? If it was so obvious to them why wasn't it obvious to every team in the league. I'm no expert but even I had reservations. Now, he may prove to be a franchise quarterback but that isn't the point, either. McCoy or Tebow could prove to be a franchise quarterback.

What this proves is that their evaluation of Clausen did not jibe with the rest of the league. And it validates the opinions of those who had reservations about Clausen. It proves that the know-it-alls didn't have it right. And it was probably because they invested themselves in the conventional wisdom instead of coming to their own conclusions.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean Clausen is going to be a bust either. If a lot of teams had to do it over again, they wouldn't have let Drew Brees fall to where he did. The criticisms were different, but still. Clausen fell into a very good situation... although I do think he is the best QB of this bunch, that helps. I liked Stafford over Sanchez but he didn't get to play behind the best running attack and a top notch defense, so now Sanchez is the golden boy.

But who knows... I wonder if the bar fight hurt him. Especially in light of the Roethlisberger stuff.

penchief
04-25-2010, 02:42 AM
Yeah, but that doesn't mean Clausen is going to be a bust either. If a lot of teams had to do it over again, they wouldn't have let Drew Brees fall to where he did. The criticisms were different, but still. Clausen fell into a very good situation... although I do think he is the best QB of this bunch, that helps. I liked Stafford over Sanchez but he didn't get to play behind the best running attack and a top notch defense, so now Sanchez is the golden boy.

But who knows... I wonder if the bar fight hurt him. Especially in light of the Roethlisberger stuff.

Yeah, I said he could still pan out. I never claimed he wouldn't ever be good. I just didn't see where he was a sure fire franchise quarterback.

Also, I don't necessarily believe that it was the character questions that caused him to be picked at 48. If he were truly deemed a franchise quarterback by any team it wouldn't have prevented them from taking him higher. I like his toughness and his competitiveness. Both of which I think far outweighed the minor compaints about his character. If Clausen had the same skill set that Bradford does he would not have been picked at 48.

johnny961
04-25-2010, 03:04 AM
Interesting info. But the news I got tonight was that Weis had no desire to be reunited with Clausen.

I was also told that the coordinators absolutely have input into player picks. Crennel was all over Berry for example. He wanted to run his pro day because of how much Monte Kiffin hyped him to Romeo.

I also don't believe that Haley is on any sort of hot seat, nor that the locker room was a problem last year. The problem in the locker room was Larry Johnson. Players continued to play hard for Haley all year. I really think Haley is an ascending coach. Romeo and Charlie also would not have signed on if Haley was just going to be here one year. Charlie has no desire to ever be a head coach again so he's not angling for anything. Romeo might, but I'm pretty confident Pioli is staying the course with Haley.

I have no connections or inside sources whatsoever, so I might be talking out my a$$ here, but I tend to agree with you. Romeo and Charlie both have solid resumes in the NFL and most likely had their choice of destinations. I do not think neither would have went somewhere that their input would not be taken seriously. Nor would they have walked into a messy situation involving the rest of the coaching staff. Truth to be known, Clausen was probably not high on our list. I'm thinking the current regime beleives we're set at that position. I may get tarred and feathered out of here for this one, but I also think that with the right supporting cast and better protection, Cassel can be a solid starter. I'm not claiming he's going to be the next Joe Montana, John Elway, Dan Marino, or the like but I think he will be a solid starter in the right system tweaked to his strengths and weaknesses. I may be eating crow on this one but those are my thoughts as of now. Our pass protection has got to improve this year though. He got sacked like 42 times last year and no telling how many times he got popped right after releasing the ball last year. Throw in the times the defender was right in his face and our QB was getting hurried ALOT and alot of plays didn't have time to develop. Almost any QB will have trouble in this scenario. Not like when Trent Green was behind our pro bowl line a few years back. You could have camped out behind that line. I'll shut up and stop ranting now.

crazycoffey
04-25-2010, 03:21 AM
The point is that the self-proclaimed experts were claiming that Clausen was a franchise quarterback worthy of the fifth overall pick. Clearly they were wrong. And they were ready to condemn Pioli and Haley if the chiefs didn't take either him or Berry at five.

How would they know that Clausen was a franchise quarterback? Because it was obvious? If it was so obvious to them why wasn't it obvious to every team in the league. I'm no expert but even I had reservations. Now, he may prove to be a franchise quarterback but that isn't the point, either. McCoy or Tebow could prove to be a franchise quarterback.

What this proves is that their evaluation of Clausen did not jibe with the rest of the league. And it validates the opinions of those who had reservations about Clausen. It proves that the know-it-alls didn't have it right. And it was probably because they invested themselves in the conventional wisdom instead of coming to their own conclusions.


If you're a preacher and I'm in the choir, why are you look at me during the sermon?

milkman
04-25-2010, 06:37 AM
I have no connections or inside sources whatsoever, so I might be talking out my a$$ here, but I tend to agree with you. Romeo and Charlie both have solid resumes in the NFL and most likely had their choice of destinations. I do not think neither would have went somewhere that their input would not be taken seriously. Nor would they have walked into a messy situation involving the rest of the coaching staff. Truth to be known, Clausen was probably not high on our list. I'm thinking the current regime beleives we're set at that position. I may get tarred and feathered out of here for this one, but I also think that with the right supporting cast and better protection, Cassel can be a solid starter. I'm not claiming he's going to be the next Joe Montana, John Elway, Dan Marino, or the like but I think he will be a solid starter in the right system tweaked to his strengths and weaknesses. I may be eating crow on this one but those are my thoughts as of now. Our pass protection has got to improve this year though. He got sacked like 42 times last year and no telling how many times he got popped right after releasing the ball last year. Throw in the times the defender was right in his face and our QB was getting hurried ALOT and alot of plays didn't have time to develop. Almost any QB will have trouble in this scenario. Not like when Trent Green was behind our pro bowl line a few years back. You could have camped out behind that line. I'll shut up and stop ranting now.

Why do people not look at the sack numbers for New England in '06, '07, and '08 and not recognize that, while the O-line here was bad, Cassel was every bit as responsible for that high sack number?

I want a ****ing QB that raises the level of play around him, not some scrub that will be okay when he's surrounded by superior talent.

And no, that QB I wanted was not Jimmy Clausen.

I'm just get ****ing tired of you dumbasses making excuses for a shitty ****ing QB.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-25-2010, 07:01 AM
I've heard from several sources that there was a heated debate within the Chiefs when the #36 pick came up. Weis was adamant that Classen was the pick. Pioli and Haley still believe that Cassell can be the QB that we need and we can pass on Claussen at that pick. This was Pioli's decision. Pioli's top priorites were playmakers and to add team speed.



The Chiefs were told that Philly was going to pick McCkuster so they pulled the trigger at 2a. The plan was to drat him at 2B.



Many rumors that this is Haley's last year unless there is major improvement not just in the Cheifs record but the locker room and team chemistry. I guess there were a lot of locker room issues last season and that is also what is driving Pioli with the high charector players. Sorry, but I don't know the details, all I know is that there were many issues in the locker room and with team chemistry.

Your eyes must be brown.

the Talking Can
04-25-2010, 07:26 AM
Funny thing is Clausen went two picks ahead of KC? They traded all that for an injured tight end but didn't trade up for a franchise QB. This franchise is ran by morons.



x 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Fairplay
04-25-2010, 07:31 AM
My source told me that Hoovers sources are the same sources as my sources.

milkman
04-25-2010, 07:40 AM
My source told me that Hoovers sources are the same sources as my sources.

My sourses tell me that I have to take a shit, which, coincidentally, is what the Chiefs did over the last two days.

Braincase
04-25-2010, 07:44 AM
I have two predictions for the year. the Chiefs will not be over .500, and Todd Haley will curse more than Turner Gill.

warpaint*
04-25-2010, 07:56 AM
Randy Moss made Dante Cullpepper look like a NFL QB just like he made Matt Cassel look like one. The turd is avg at best. Unfortunately this wasn't a good year in terms of QB talent with only one elite prospect. Next year when we are picking in the same area (how could we not be given the state of the front 7) there should be more QB talent available be it first or second round.

MoreLemonPledge
04-25-2010, 08:19 AM
Why hire a OC if you arent going to listen to him?

Because his job is to coordinate the offense, not run a draft.

tomahawk
04-25-2010, 08:34 AM
[QUOTE=mjdoesnfl;6712060]I think the draft has gone really well. Maybe that's because it's harder to evaluate lineman. But we desperately needed another playmaker on O besides the skinny fast guy, or he won't make it the half way point for all the attention he'll get.

[B]Also our secondary was extremely slow - does anyone know how many TD's we gave up on long runs after the catch last year? I don't but it was probably the highest in the NFL. [/

I am not going to say the chiefs didn't reach a round early for 2B.,but this guy will make a difference here. He is quick as hell, and is very good at getting to the qb and finishing,something the chiefs have been lacking also. Most of the teams quit kicking to him on kick returns cause he was so hard to handle. And were talking SEC where team speed is not at short commodity. Special teams is such a large part of todays game and think about how many times the chiefs probably lose because they simply cant control field position. When was the last time anyone respected the chiefs return game?

jjchieffan
04-25-2010, 10:14 AM
I don't care what the reasoning was. I have been content in the past to say that Pioli and the scouts know more about these players than me. But seriously. How on earth do they have McCluster and Arenas higher on their boards than Clausen, Kindle, Tate, Cody, and Mays. All of these guys had first round talent and would have made an immediate impact. Most of them would have even started this season. I can't believe I am saying this, but I agree with Hamas. Pioli is an idiot.




Just typing that I agree with Hamas has made me sick to my stomach.:shake:

L.A. Chieffan
04-25-2010, 11:31 AM
This might be the worst thing I read or heard all week.

Mother Fucker.

JASONSAUTO
04-25-2010, 11:31 AM
maube this was put out there because weis likes jimmy as a person but not as a nfl qb. i would have been ok with clausen but what tangible about the guy is nfl prototype? height? weight? hand size? arm strength?
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JASONSAUTO
04-25-2010, 11:33 AM
and its funny how many hypocrites in this thread, sal pal is FOS, but this is a for sure truth? remember brc is using more than just "the source" now.....
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L.A. Chieffan
04-25-2010, 11:37 AM
If this is true, I mean if the BRC info is 100%........fuck.

I was even kinda excited about McCluster.

I feel sick to my stomach...

DBOSHO
04-25-2010, 11:38 AM
Lol every year its "well i didnt see any franchise qbs in this draft, but NEXT YEAR? oh man."

JASONSAUTO
04-25-2010, 11:45 AM
if true and weis wanted the guy so bad why didnt he just quit? i mean fuck it if they arent going to make you successful why stay?
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Extra Point
04-25-2010, 11:45 AM
Lol every year its "well i didnt see any franchise qbs in this draft, but NEXT YEAR? oh man."

That's rich! It's also true. (I'm glad Chicago got their hometown boy LeFevour. Maybe one of these years we'll find someone like that.)

L.A. Chieffan
04-25-2010, 11:48 AM
yeah im sure weis is just gonna tell his boss, the owner of the chiefs, his family, and the entire media "to go fuck themselves" on draft day.

get real dude.

ILChief
04-25-2010, 11:50 AM
Lol every year its "well i didnt see any franchise qbs in this draft, but NEXT YEAR? oh man."

Yeah when there was talk of Matt Ryan, he sucked. Then, Sanchez sucked. This year, Clausen sucked.

Don't worry, next year Locker, Mallett, and Luck will all suck too.

JASONSAUTO
04-25-2010, 11:53 AM
yeah im sure weis is just gonna tell his boss, the owner of the chiefs, his family, and the entire media "to go fuck themselves" on draft day.

get real dude.

why not? how would he be telling his FAMILY to fuck themselves? wasnt jimmy supposed to be like family? he had plenty of money.


and i was half joking.

people said the would defer to weis on clausen. BUT they now blame it on pioli? just like i said would happen all along. maybe weis just doesnt want to hurt clausens feeelings
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L.A. Chieffan
04-25-2010, 11:56 AM
the idea that this came out just to appease Clausen's feelings doesn't make any sense either.

why have a report of internal fighting and heated debates that makes pioli look like an asshole, if it never happened?

first of all, this is the pros now jimmy if you get your feelings hurt fuck you.

second, if weis really felt that bad theres alot easier ways to go about it.

JASONSAUTO
04-25-2010, 12:00 PM
the idea that this came out just to appease Clausen's feelings doesn't make any sense either.

why have a report of internal fighting and heated debates that makes pioli look like an asshole, if it never happened?

first of all, this is the pros now jimmy if you get your feelings hurt fuck you.

second, if weis really felt that bad theres alot easier ways to go about it.

pioli doesnt appear to give two shits about what he looks like
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BigRedChief
04-25-2010, 12:02 PM
Interesting info. But the news I got tonight was that Weis had no desire to be reunited with Clausen.

I was also told that the coordinators absolutely have input into player picks. Crennel was all over Berry for example. He wanted to run his pro day because of how much Monte Kiffin hyped him to Romeo.

I also don't believe that Haley is on any sort of hot seat, nor that the locker room was a problem last year. The problem in the locker room was Larry Johnson. Players continued to play hard for Haley all year. I really think Haley is an ascending coach. Romeo and Charlie also would not have signed on if Haley was just going to be here one year. Charlie has no desire to ever be a head coach again so he's not angling for anything. Romeo might, but I'm pretty confident Pioli is staying the course with Haley.I've still not heard anything from "the source" thats been right on point for years with information. This time of the year there is so much BS and misinformation put out by teams you can't really trust anything, even if the source has been right in the past.

Frankie
04-25-2010, 12:02 PM
I also don't believe that Haley is on any sort of hot seat, nor that the locker room was a problem last year. The problem in the locker room was Larry Johnson. Players continued to play hard for Haley all year. I really think Haley is an ascending coach.

I agree with this. Maybe it's the homer side of me but I think Haley will be successful. I think he was learning on the job. The timing of the Gailey firing was a big mistake and we really didn't have a thought out 'O' after that. I think we beat the Donks at the end convincingly because he finally threw caution to the wind and let our guys play (not discounting the element of surprise, of course).

I say all of this with optimism, but even I hope it's not just fueled by my being a fan.

Iowanian
04-25-2010, 12:04 PM
This is the same source that guaranteed that DJ would NOT be a Chief this season....




I only have 1 source, and that is a blocking TE who says he has been talking to the chiefs and wants to be a chief.

Buzzsaw
04-25-2010, 12:05 PM
I don't think many teams give their offensive coordinator a lot of say in drafting decisions. Even most head coaches don't get to "pick out the groceries". The GM makes the final call with most input coming from the scouting department.

JASONSAUTO
04-25-2010, 12:07 PM
I've still not heard anything from "the source" thats been right on point for years with information. This time of the year there is so much BS and misinformation put out by teams you can't really trust anything, even if the source has been right in the past.

THANK YOU. funny how tribal left out that it wasnt from "the source"
Posted via Mobile Device

DeezNutz
04-25-2010, 12:10 PM
if true and weis wanted the guy so bad why didnt he just quit?

Because he's not a pussy bitch?

BigRedChief
04-25-2010, 12:12 PM
THANK YOU. funny how tribal left out that it wasnt from "the source"
Posted via Mobile Device
The local media guy that gave me Weis was a done deal and the Berry pick is 2-0 but the rest of the "stuff" I get thats not from "the source" that is sent to me is full of BS and just flat out wrong info. I should buy shares of a salt mine.

JASONSAUTO
04-25-2010, 12:12 PM
Because he's not a pussy bitch?

lol have you seen the guy? and like i said i was joking. i just think he wasnt as high on him as some.
Posted via Mobile Device

DTLB58
04-25-2010, 12:19 PM
Why hire a OC if you arent going to listen to him?

He can have an opinion but he dosen't have all say, that would make him the GM, head coach or owner. There is a pecking order....

Frankie
04-25-2010, 12:27 PM
Why do people not look at the sack numbers for New England in '06, '07, and '08 and not recognize that, while the O-line here was bad, Cassel was every bit as responsible for that high sack number?

I think he WAS. But I also do subscribe to the fact that NE had a comparable record with him at the helm and last year. Neither are end-all arguments in his favor or against. I really think (hope?) the holding on to the ball too long can be coached out of him. By all accounts he is a dedicated student of the game with good work habits. That's quality number one. You might say then why didn't he learn on the bench in NE. My answer would be no matter how much you "study" you cannot implement what you learn in class on the field unless you actually do it too. Much like learning to drive. You may know exactly what you need to do behind the wheel but you will not do them until you spend some time there. His last year in NE was for all intents and purposes his rookie season. Then he had to face offensive upheavals in his second year without having gained an experienced veteran's savvy. We won't really know until way into the next season what we really have in him. If this all sounds TOO optimistic I admit that I'm trying to be a hopeful fan (with fingers crossed). But I bet that you as a Chiefs fan will agree the very best thing that can happen to the Chiefs is for Cassel to actually develop to be the QB that solves our QB problem, leaving our future draft picks free to use on studs in other positions.

JASONSAUTO
04-25-2010, 12:28 PM
The local media guy that gave me Weis was a done deal and the Berry pick is 2-0 but the rest of the "stuff" I get thats not from "the source" that is sent to me is full of BS and just flat out wrong info. I should buy shares of a salt mine.

so was this from the media guy? or is tw stirrin shit?
Posted via Mobile Device

Frankie
04-25-2010, 12:30 PM
Next year when we are picking in the same area (how could we not be given the state of the front 7) there should be more QB talent available be it first or second round.Again, let's hope we won't need any. But I will follow college QBs with keen interest next season.

DTLB58
04-25-2010, 12:31 PM
I'm sure there are many heated discussions in the draft rooms, no different than any other NFL team. But then you make the pick and move on.

I don't think Pioli lead Weis to beileve this whole time if you come here and Jimmy is there when we are on the clock I will give you the chance to talk me into to taking him. I just think that is B.S. I think he told him from the start Cassell is our QB that you will be working with do you want the job?

I think people are just upset about the draft right now, I know I am. But I find it funny how supposedly all this info leaks out ROFL

Like everyone was able to get the chiefs draft info and mocked all these players they were interested in. :D

Haley gets 2 years to make it right with all the changes?

aturnis
04-25-2010, 12:31 PM
The same reason we didn't take any Notre Dame players. Also the same reason why Pete Carroll didn't take Mays. How would the rest of your players react to that? He'd be a good 'ol boy. If Clausen started, it'd be b/c he's Weis's boy, and Clausen is enough of an idiot(not judging him too much, but Brady Quinn had better character and for some reason got his face smashed in) to say the wrong thing when accused of it. It'd be problematic in the locker room.

Frankie
04-25-2010, 12:32 PM
I have been content in the past to say that Pioli and the scouts know more about these players than me. But seriously. How on earth do they have McCluster and Arenas higher on their boards than Clausen, Kindle, Tate, Cody, and Mays. All of these guys had first round talent and would have made an immediate impact. This.

Frankie
04-25-2010, 12:34 PM
maube this was put out there because weis likes jimmy as a person but not as a nfl qb./i][/size]

If anything I think it would be the other way around. Let's face it, there WERE increasing revelations of Clausen's alleged immaturity.

Frankie
04-25-2010, 12:35 PM
and its funny how many hypocrites in this thread,.....


Because it's fun.

Frankie
04-25-2010, 12:37 PM
Lol every year its "well i didnt see any franchise qbs in this draft, but NEXT YEAR? oh man."

Locker and who else? Luck? Name some so I can start watching them.

DeezNutz
04-25-2010, 12:38 PM
Locker and who else? Luck? Name some so I can start watching them.

Locker
Luck
Mallett
Gabbert (maybe)

Frankie
04-25-2010, 12:38 PM
Locker and who else? Luck? Name some so I can start watching them.

Oh I guess I didn't catch your sarcasm, DBOSHO. My bad.

Iowanian
04-25-2010, 12:39 PM
If those players were "first round talent"...why were 31 other teams foolish enough to pass on them?

The fact that the Chiefs, with Weis passed on them should tell you something. They know more than we do.

The fact is, we can all piss and moan about players, but I guarantee there were players last year, and the year before and the year before that fans were upset about being passed on, that have flamed out.

Frankie
04-25-2010, 12:45 PM
...and Clausen is enough of an idiot(not judging him too much, but Brady Quinn had better character and for some reason got his face smashed in) to say the wrong thing when accused of it. It'd be problematic in the locker room.

"I can't throw'em and catch'em too!":)

Frankie
04-25-2010, 12:48 PM
Locker
Luck
Mallett
Gabbert (maybe)
Thanks DN. Right now I don't have much more info on them other than Locker locks on his receivers, Mallett sports a Mullet, Luck might bring us some and Gabbert sounds too French to be a tough minded QB. So based on those deep evaluations, Luck is my front-runner.;)

DeezNutz
04-25-2010, 01:00 PM
Thanks DN. Right now I don't have much more info on them other than Locker locks on his receivers, Mallett sports a Mullet, Luck might bring us some and Gabbert sounds too French to be a tough minded QB. So based on those deep evaluations, Luck is my front-runner.;)

;)

All would be upgrades to what we have. Gabbert is my front-runner, and I'll be pimping his name incessantly throughout the next calendar year (assuming he declares), but I'd be thrilled to draft any of the four.

Dicky McElephant
04-25-2010, 01:11 PM
Well Pioli and Haley have now completely hitched themselves to Cassel. Cassel better prove to be a franchise QB or Pioli is going to look like a fucking moron. It's just to bad that Haley will probably take the heat if Cassel doesn't perform.

tk13
04-25-2010, 01:16 PM
Well Pioli and Haley have now completely hitched themselves to Cassel. Cassel better prove to be a franchise QB or Pioli is going to look like a ****ing moron. It's just to bad that Haley will probably take the heat if Cassel doesn't perform.

To a point... but if Cassel bombs this year they can just dump him. And next year's QB class is better than this one.

Dicky McElephant
04-25-2010, 01:17 PM
To a point... but if Cassel bombs this year they can just dump him. And next year's QB class is better than this one.

And we're one year behind.....again. If we go 7-9 (which is possible with our shitty schedule)....then we're going to have to trade up for a QB.

Frankie
04-25-2010, 01:18 PM
... but if Cassel bombs this year they can just dump him. And next year's QB class is better than this one.

And that's the right strategy for were we are now.

milkman
04-25-2010, 01:18 PM
And we're one year behind.....again. If we go 7-9 (which is possible with our shitty schedule)....then we're going to have to trade up for a QB.

Well, at least we know that Pioli is capable of trading up.

Frankie
04-25-2010, 01:19 PM
And we're one year behind.....again. If we go 7-9 (which is possible with our shitty schedule)....then we're going to have to trade up for a QB.

I Cassel does pan out the we are one year ahead. It's all give and take.

DeezNutz
04-25-2010, 01:19 PM
And we're one year behind.....again. If we go 7-9 (which is possible with our shitty schedule)....then we're going to have to trade up for a QB.

Assuming that only 3 come out, I'd expect one to drop into the teens. They're not all going top 10.

johnny961
04-25-2010, 01:20 PM
Why do people not look at the sack numbers for New England in '06, '07, and '08 and not recognize that, while the O-line here was bad, Cassel was every bit as responsible for that high sack number?

I want a ****ing QB that raises the level of play around him, not some scrub that will be okay when he's surrounded by superior talent.

And no, that QB I wanted was not Jimmy Clausen.

I'm just get ****ing tired of you dumbasses making excuses for a shitty ****ing QB.

I guess I didn't make my point exactly clear here. Do I think we overpaid for an average QB? Absolutely. Would a pro bowl level QB with a cannon arm and pinpoint accuracy, along with flawless decision making be helpful? Without a doubt. But, the Cassel deal is a done deal, like it or not, and what he does bring to the table is a servicable package although there is a high probability that he'll never see a pro bowl or the hall of fame. And, right now IMHO, we have bigger fish to fry as far as needs are concerned, and you don't waste draft picks and/or big FA money on one position such as QB when you have other glaring areas that suck worse than the QB right now. Like run defense/pass rush and pass protection/blocking. Maybe a receiver that can consistently catch the damn ball. Thats the point I was trying to make was that I think we have bigger areas of need right now before an upgrade at QB becomes feasible. Take care of the things that are killing you the worst before looking at luxury upgrades that you can do without for now. You gotta see the big picture here, and right now there are things this team as a whole needs a hell of alot worse than a QB. Which is why I think we passed on Clausen or any other QB out there for that matter. Just my .02.

DeezNutz
04-25-2010, 01:20 PM
I Cassel does pan out the we are one year ahead. It's all give and take.

28-year-old QBs don't pan. We know what he is.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 01:21 PM
Anybody with a brain knew Philly was going safety with that early 2nd round pick. They were so high on the safeties and worked out Berry, Earl Thomas and Nate Allen just like the Chiefs did prior to the draft. They were taking Nate Allen there, the last of the first round talent graded safeties, I'd imagine someone told the Chiefs that Philly was going to take McShitter and the Chiefs clearly got cold feet and shit themselves. I'm sure Philly might have been targeting him with their second 2nd rounder. Like the NFL network said, a team like the Eagles has the option to take a luxury pick that early, when you only win 4 games, there is no point in making that pick.

This is just a sad draft if its the case of the Chiefs front office protecting themselves, instead of going for clear best player available to your needs.

They were also selling the idea that they were looking to trade up and Earl Thomas and Berry were their targets. They instead traded up, passed on Thomas at a great value, and drafted Graham. There are multiple sources that seem to be reporting that McCluster was Philly's pick and almost every draft guru is saying it was a great pick for the spot. I'm a lot more likely to believe the post-draft buzz than the pre-draft buzz that's filled with smokescreens.

Dicky McElephant
04-25-2010, 01:23 PM
I Cassel does pan out the we are one year ahead. It's all give and take.
Cassel is what he is.

BigRedChief
04-25-2010, 01:24 PM
They were also selling the idea that they were looking to trade up and Earl Thomas and Berry were their targets. They instead traded up, passed on Thomas at a great value, and drafted Graham. There are multiple sources that seem to be reporting that McCluster was Philly's pick and almost every draft guru is saying it was a great pick for the spot. I'm a lot more likely to believe the post-draft buzz than the pre-draft buzz that's filled with smokescreens.To be fair it still could be BS and misinformation being "leaked" to benefit a team one way or the other. It seems to me that more and more that NFL teams feel they have the freedom to lie and plant false stories in the media and leak to bloggers to benefit their own aims.

tk13
04-25-2010, 01:24 PM
You can't look at it that way... this is the QB position. People are so bent on having any QB. You aren't one year behind anything, these guys come out when they come out. You'd be better to wait for a great one than reach for one in an average class.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 01:25 PM
I've heard from several sources that there was a heated debate within the Chiefs when the #36 pick came up. Weis was adamant that Classen was the pick. Pioli and Haley still believe that Cassell can be the QB that we need and we can pass on Claussen at that pick. This was Pioli's decision. Pioli's top priorites were playmakers and to add team speed.



The Chiefs were told that Philly was going to pick McCkuster so they pulled the trigger at 2a. The plan was to drat him at 2B.



Many rumors that this is Haley's last year unless there is major improvement not just in the Cheifs record but the locker room and team chemistry. I guess there were a lot of locker room issues last season and that is also what is driving Pioli with the high charector players. Sorry, but I don't know the details, all I know is that there were many issues in the locker room and with team chemistry.

There were two areas I believe we whiffed. I think they should have traded up from 50 for Clausen, but then, I think Carolina taking him was sort of a surprise pick based on how well Matt Moore played toward the end of the season. I also think we whiffed by not making some kind of a trade into the 6th round when we saw Lefevour was still on the board.

The good news is, they let the scouts run the draft and not let a coach dominate the draft. The bad news is, I agree, we lost a potential franchise QB in the process. But granted, if Clausen fell that low, I can guarantee there was more to it than character.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-25-2010, 01:26 PM
I don't care what the reasoning was. I have been content in the past to say that Pioli and the scouts know more about these players than me. But seriously. How on earth do they have McCluster and Arenas higher on their boards than Clausen, Kindle, Tate, Cody, and Mays. All of these guys had first round talent and would have made an immediate impact. Most of them would have even started this season. I can't believe I am saying this, but I agree with Hamas. Pioli is an idiot.




Just typing that I agree with Hamas has made me sick to my stomach.:shake:

Okay, lets look at Clausen. Decent talent, but a headcase. So, why take a guy marginally ahead of Cassel in terms of talent, and pretty much already at his ceiling, when he has an attitude problem and, according to some, a recurring toe injury? The kid has the entitlement complex. Weis knew that better than anyone else. Why draft someone you know expects it given to him?

Kindle- Off field issues, somewhat immature, AND he has knee issues. Some think that he will need micro-fracture surgery.

Tate- A guy who is only an inch taller than McCluster and isn't as shifty. He can't come out of the backfield. He is faster in a straight line, but is not as athletic and he doesn't move his hips as well. He just doesn't fit as well coming out of the slot.... and he is smaller than preferred on the outside.

Cody-He has work ethic issues. And, returner is a bigger need than NT for this year.

Mays-Workout warrior.... underachiever on the field.


Okay, so instead of these guys, who are either average like Tate or Mays.... or have reasons to believe that they are probably going to be out of the league soon..... like Cody, Clausen, and Kindle...... they took one of the best playmakers in the draft. A guy that will give the Chiefs offense a real spark and offers them a mismatch. He can go anywhere on the field and he can make plays.

And, you draft the best returner in the draft. I am sure that Hester is worth his second round pick.... and, Arenas can actually play corner. He is a good, very smart, nickel corner.


The Chiefs took elite talent at their roles over 'decent' starters. I am okay with that.

tk13
04-25-2010, 01:27 PM
To be fair it still could be BS and misinformation being "leaked" to benefit a team one way or the other. It seems to me that more and more that NFL teams feel they have the freedom to lie and plant false stories in the media and leak to bloggers to benefit their own aims.

I agree, but in this particular instance... we weren't going to draft the guy the Eagles picked, so there was no reason to lead us to McCluster.

Dicky McElephant
04-25-2010, 01:27 PM
The thing that bothers me the most is that the Chiefs were in the perfect situation. The Chiefs could have drafted Clausen at #36 and it would have been the perfect situation for everyone.

1. The Chiefs get a QBoTF if Cassel doesn't pan out.

2. Clausen would come cheap as shit and he'd have a chip on his shoulder.

3. IF Cassel does pan out....then Clausen can sit and be an awesome backup for a couple of years. Look at the McNab/Kolb situation. That would have been us.

But now if Cassel sucks...we're back to square one. If Cassel is good....then we're going to be going QB sometime soon because Cassel isn't fucking young.

milkman
04-25-2010, 01:32 PM
I guess I didn't make my point exactly clear here. Do I think we overpaid for an average QB? Absolutely. Would a pro bowl level QB with a cannon arm and pinpoint accuracy, along with flawless decision making be helpful? Without a doubt. But, the Cassel deal is a done deal, like it or not, and what he does bring to the table is a servicable package although there is a high probability that he'll never see a pro bowl or the hall of fame. And, right now IMHO, we have bigger fish to fry as far as needs are concerned, and you don't waste draft picks and/or big FA money on one position such as QB when you have other glaring areas that suck worse than the QB right now. Like run defense/pass rush and pass protection/blocking. Maybe a receiver that can consistently catch the damn ball. Thats the point I was trying to make was that I think we have bigger areas of need right now before an upgrade at QB becomes feasible. Take care of the things that are killing you the worst before looking at luxury upgrades that you can do without for now. You gotta see the big picture here, and right now there are things this team as a whole needs a hell of alot worse than a QB. Which is why I think we passed on Clausen or any other QB out there for that matter. Just my .02.

Since this drfat didn't have a QB that I really cared to take, I have no prblem with passing on QB.

But QB is a luxury?

LMAO

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 01:32 PM
The thing that bothers me the most is that the Chiefs were in the perfect situation. The Chiefs could have drafted Clausen at #36 and it would have been the perfect situation for everyone.

1. The Chiefs get a QBoTF if Cassel doesn't pan out.

2. Clausen would come cheap as shit and he'd have a chip on his shoulder.

3. IF Cassel does pan out....then Clausen can sit and be an awesome backup for a couple of years. Look at the McNab/Kolb situation. That would have been us.

But now if Cassel sucks...we're back to square one. If Cassel is good....then we're going to be going QB sometime soon because Cassel isn't fucking young.

The inverse is also true: If Cassel doesn't work out, the next QB walks into a situation with a young but veteran offensive line along with at least two dynamic offensive players in Charles and McCluster (not to mention Bowe).

Pioli is just taking a different route than what some people expected (playmakers vs. NT & ILB, etc.).

KCDC
04-25-2010, 01:32 PM
It well could be that Weiss wanted Clausen but that Pioli asked him whether Clausen would be exponentially better than Cassel. Because, bringing in Clausen would be disruptive, leaving us in a position like when Quinn and Anderson were in Cleveland. We didn't need to burn #36 for a QB who was a modest upgrade over Cassel. I have to believe if Clausen was night and day better, Pioli might have used #36 to take him.

There are 3-4 good QBs avalable next year. Most teams have solved their QB problems. Oakland has Campbell. Cleveland got McCoy. Panthers got Clausen. Rams have Bradford. So, that leaves the Bills (unless Broehm or Edwards has a good year), the Redskins, and the Vikings needing QBs next year. The Vikes will pick behind us, so we could get one of the top 3 easily enough. There is no certainty that the Skins or Bills will want to use their #1 for a QB anyway.

So, we get another year to see if Cassel rises to the occasion. If not, we are in excellent position to take a potential QBOTF next season, even though we might win enough games that we only have the 16th pick.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 01:33 PM
The thing that bothers me the most is that the Chiefs were in the perfect situation. The Chiefs could have drafted Clausen at #36 and it would have been the perfect situation for everyone.

1. The Chiefs get a QBoTF if Cassel doesn't pan out.

2. Clausen would come cheap as shit and he'd have a chip on his shoulder.

3. IF Cassel does pan out....then Clausen can sit and be an awesome backup for a couple of years. Look at the McNab/Kolb situation. That would have been us.

But now if Cassel sucks...we're back to square one. If Cassel is good....then we're going to be going QB sometime soon because Cassel isn't ****ing young.

I agree to a point.

But it worries me that a supposedly franchise QB was passed on 49 times. There has to be something to it. I was as high on Clausen as anyone, but something tells me there's more than just character concerns here.

CoMoChief
04-25-2010, 01:33 PM
Do you know why Weis had no desire to be with Clausen? I find that pretty shocking.

yeah no shit. considering it was CW that recruiting the motherfucker to ND.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-25-2010, 01:34 PM
Cassel is what he is.

You are right. Cassel isn't a 'great' QB. He probably never will be a 'great' QB. He is what he is. He is a hard worker. He is a great leader. He will be a good game manager.

So, when the Chiefs have the opportunity to grab one of the great ones.... they need to do it. It isn't someone like Clausen who has entitlement issues and a slightly better than average arm. This isn't Matthew Stafford here.

Now, I will say that I don't think that the Chiefs will have a chance to draft a QB in the top ten again for a while. On paper, they look like an 8-8 club. So, that puts them middle of the pack. That probably means that they won't draft a franchise QB unless they luck into one.

All that said, it is still better than wasting a pick on Clausen. He may be a great QB someday, but just coming to the Chiefs wouldn't have helped him. #1) He has had Weis for the last three years. He would have felt even more entitled than he already does. He needed to have the wake up call of not being drafted by Weis. He needed to have the wake up call that the immaturity that he has shown is not acceptable.

I still think the Panthers won't see much out of him.... but at least they got him in the best possible scenario.

DeezNutz
04-25-2010, 01:36 PM
Cassel is NOT a great leader. We hope this improves. And we hope that he'll be a good game manager.

Right now, what "he is" is a piece of shit. 44/46.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-25-2010, 01:39 PM
The thing that bothers me the most is that the Chiefs were in the perfect situation. The Chiefs could have drafted Clausen at #36 and it would have been the perfect situation for everyone.

1. The Chiefs get a QBoTF if Cassel doesn't pan out.

2. Clausen would come cheap as shit and he'd have a chip on his shoulder.

3. IF Cassel does pan out....then Clausen can sit and be an awesome backup for a couple of years. Look at the McNab/Kolb situation. That would have been us.

But now if Cassel sucks...we're back to square one. If Cassel is good....then we're going to be going QB sometime soon because Cassel isn't ****ing young.


Clausen would be drafted by his old head coach which would have excused him immaturity and perpetuated bad behavior.

Cassel isn't old. He has 9 years or so left in the league. Second round draft picks sign three years deals. He would be long gone by then.

Clausen wouldn't do well as a backup. He would undermine Cassel. It is one thing to compete for a starting spot, it is another thing to pout when it doesn't happen.

Clausen is a tool. He has always been a tool, and the one good thing that happened is that his former head coach didn't want him on this team. That may wake him up and help him to realize that the world doesn't revolve around him.

DBOSHO
04-25-2010, 01:40 PM
Lol cassel is the man.

DeezNutz
04-25-2010, 01:41 PM
Clausen would be drafted by his old head coach which would have excused him immaturity and perpetuated bad behavior.

Cassel isn't old. He has 9 years or so left in the league. Second round draft picks sign three years deals. He would be long gone by then.

Clausen wouldn't do well as a backup. He would undermine Cassel. It is one thing to compete for a starting spot, it is another thing to pout when it doesn't happen.

Clausen is a tool. He has always been a tool, and the one good thing that happened is that his former head coach didn't want him on this team. That may wake him up and help him to realize that the world doesn't revolve around him.

1. You think it's safe to say that Cassel will play until he's 37? We're not talking about an elite athlete; we're talking about a JAG.

2. Guess work.

3. Ok. Umm...

SenselessChiefsFan
04-25-2010, 01:41 PM
Cassel is NOT a great leader. We hope this improves. And we hope that he'll be a good game manager.

Right now, what "he is" is a piece of shit. 44/46.

Sorry, but you are wrong. He is a good leader. He is a very good leader, and he leads by example, not just words.

Again, if they have the opportunity to draft a top notch QB, they have my blessings. Drafting a QB with only marginally better talent that is also a headcase and has a nagging toe injury.... just doesn't make much sense to me.

Why reach for a QB in a weak class? Seriously. Take a QB when he is going to be much better than what you have, not just marginally better.

DeezNutz
04-25-2010, 01:43 PM
Sorry, but you are wrong. He is a good leader. He is a very good leader, and he leads by example, not just words.


All evidence that we have is that he was a complete ****ing joke:

1. Pushing players.
2. Being demonstrative after others' errors
3. Saying that he graded perfectly after embarrassingly poor performances.

Just because you want him to be a leader, doesn't mean that he is. In all areas, he's a worthless sack of shit.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-25-2010, 01:47 PM
1. You think it's safe to say that Cassel will play until he's 37? We're not talking about an elite athlete; we're talking about a JAG.

2. Guess work.

3. Ok. Umm...

1) Fine, then seven more years. Clausen is still gone. But, yeah, I think he will play until he is 37 if he pans out. Why? He missed many years of playing. He has very little wear and tear on his body. (well, until last year) and he won't be bored with it.

2) Says you. He is an entitled prick who is lucky that he is going to a brand new coaching staff.




The love of Clausen is mind boggling even after he has dropped to the middle of the second round.... where, we all know that 'franchise' QB's aren't drafted.

Heck, the team that drafted him didn't even have him in for a private visit..... they didn't know him well enough to realize he is an entitled prick apparently.

It is the best spot for him. He could be successful, but the Clausen love? Unbelievable.

penchief
04-25-2010, 01:48 PM
Cassel is NOT a great leader. We hope this improves. And we hope that he'll be a good game manager.

Right now, what "he is" is a piece of shit. 44/46.

In fairness, he stepped into a difficult situation and had almost nothing to work with. A new team, new coaching staff, the offense was changed with only a week or so left in the preseason, no playmakers until Charles emerged, receivers who couldn't catch a cold, and a horrible offensive line.

I agree that he is going to have to have a better season but I think a wait and see approach is a warranted before we deem him a "piece of shit."

The Bad Guy
04-25-2010, 01:48 PM
Cassel leads by example?

What example would that be?

CosmicPal
04-25-2010, 01:50 PM
Cassel leads by example?

What example would that be?

That you can start in the NFL with no college football experience? :shrug:

johnny961
04-25-2010, 02:05 PM
In fairness, he stepped into a difficult situation and had almost nothing to work with. A new team, new coaching staff, the offense was changed with only a week or so left in the preseason, no playmakers until Charles emerged, receivers who couldn't catch a cold, and a horrible offensive line.

I agree that he is going to have to have a better season but I think a wait and see approach is a warranted before we deem him a "piece of shit."

Excellent points. Too many strikes against the position right off the bat to make a fair assessment.

DeezNutz
04-25-2010, 02:07 PM
In fairness, he stepped into a difficult situation and had almost nothing to work with. A new team, new coaching staff, the offense was changed with only a week or so left in the preseason, no playmakers until Charles emerged, receivers who couldn't catch a cold, and a horrible offensive line.

I agree that he is going to have to have a better season but I think a wait and see approach is a warranted before we deem him a "piece of shit."

True. All sorts of difficult circumstances were facing him.

But I didn't think he was a high-quality player before we acquired him, so I'm loath to "wait and see" anything. I understand your perspective, but if you hated something from the on-set, it pretty much demands evidence to begin to shift your opinion.

TheGuardian
04-25-2010, 02:07 PM
I've heard from several sources that there was a heated debate within the Chiefs when the #36 pick came up. Weis was adamant that Classen was the pick. Pioli and Haley still believe that Cassell can be the QB that we need and we can pass on Claussen at that pick. This was Pioli's decision. Pioli's top priorites were playmakers and to add team speed.



The Chiefs were told that Philly was going to pick McCkuster so they pulled the trigger at 2a. The plan was to drat him at 2B.



Many rumors that this is Haley's last year unless there is major improvement not just in the Cheifs record but the locker room and team chemistry. I guess there were a lot of locker room issues last season and that is also what is driving Pioli with the high charector players. Sorry, but I don't know the details, all I know is that there were many issues in the locker room and with team chemistry.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Everyone here has a source and that source always supports their opinion. IT's stupid beyond belief. I don't believe a word of this shit.

DeezNutz
04-25-2010, 02:08 PM
Excellent points. Too many strikes against the position right off the bat to make a fair assessment.

And the single biggest strike against him was that he's not very talented.

Der Flöprer
04-25-2010, 02:10 PM
Interesting info. But the news I got tonight was that Weis had no desire to be reunited with Clausen.

I was also told that the coordinators absolutely have input into player picks. Crennel was all over Berry for example. He wanted to run his pro day because of how much Monte Kiffin hyped him to Romeo.

I also don't believe that Haley is on any sort of hot seat, nor that the locker room was a problem last year. The problem in the locker room was Larry Johnson. Players continued to play hard for Haley all year. I really think Haley is an ascending coach. Romeo and Charlie also would not have signed on if Haley was just going to be here one year. Charlie has no desire to ever be a head coach again so he's not angling for anything. Romeo might, but I'm pretty confident Pioli is staying the course with Haley.

If this is true, and Weis wanted nothing to do with him, I'll eat my crow and be happy we passed on him. Truly. Weis should know about Jimmy more than anyone. That's good enough for me.

notorious
04-25-2010, 02:11 PM
If this is true, and Weis wanted nothing to do with him, I'll eat my crow and be happy we passed on him. Truly. Weis should know about Jimmy more than anyone. That's good enough for me.

This

Clausen was dead to me after we passed on him with 2A. Throw that together with the rest of the NFL passing on him mulitple times and the only fair assessment is that he is a dumpster fire.

DaWolf
04-25-2010, 02:14 PM
If Cassel is good....then we're going to be going QB sometime soon because Cassel isn't ****ing young.

He's 27. That's not old by any means. If he were a RB he might have 3 years left. For QB's, that's just entering the prime.

I really don't think that Weis wanted Clausen that bad. They could have taken him at 5, they didn't. They could have traded back up into the first to get him, they didn't. They could have taken him at 2a, they didn't. They could have traded up a few spots at 2b, they didn't. Same thing happened with Golden Tate, we passed.

We may have manufactured in our own minds and through various rumors that Weis really wanted his guys, when the reality may be that once he became a coordinator at the NFL level, he looked at it and said there wasn't a huge need to get these guys at this level. Weis may have been more concerned with how he could manufacture more points this year than who can be a QB down the road. And another thing we're forgetting is that Weis was hired in large part to help Matt Cassel succeed, not to help replace Matt Cassel. If the first thing you do is replace the QB, then it doesn't say much about your supposed ability to coach up QB's, especially one that Josh McDaniels supposedly coached up to a good year.

And again, I think we're overstating the influence Cassel has in the decision to bypass Clausen. I think it has more to do with the regime having confidence in Brodie Croyle. They seem to believe that Croyle still has the ability to be a starting QB, and that if Cassel fails, he has the ability to step in. That's what I take from all of Haley's comments on Croyle last year, and the decision to get rid of Thigpen. I don't necessarially agree with it, but they like Croyle...

penchief
04-25-2010, 02:17 PM
True. All sorts of difficult circumstances were facing him.

But I didn't think he was a high-quality player before we acquired him, so I'm loath to "wait and see" anything. I understand your perspective, but if you hated something from the on-set, it pretty much demands evidence to begin to shift your opinion.

Well, he may not have had the type of season we all hoped for but he did handle all that adversity admirably in only his second full season as a starter. Which does say something about his character and leadership, IMO.

johnny961
04-25-2010, 02:22 PM
True. All sorts of difficult circumstances were facing him.

But I didn't think he was a high-quality player before we acquired him, so I'm loath to "wait and see" anything. I understand your perspective, but if you hated something from the on-set, it pretty much demands evidence to begin to shift your opinion.

I can understand your thinking there. When we got Cassel, my mindset wasn't so much that I was against giving him a shot(I knew Glassman Croyle wasn't our answer), but I thought we overpaid for a commodity that hadn't been around long enough to prove himself as an NFL starter. And 60+ million is a lot of cash to have out on a QB that the jury is still out on. I can really see your opinion here.

rambleonthruthefog
04-25-2010, 02:25 PM
If that's the case, then both Haley and Pioli should be fired.

You don't draft someone at 36 who you target at 50 because someone else covets him. You let the board come to you. You also don't believe the misinformation that is out there.

You also don't fill the team with inferior talents who have good character simply because the coach is losing control of the team. If the coach loses control of the team, you ****ing fire the sonofabitch, cut out the cancer, and bring in better players.

On top of that, if Pioli wanted to add team speed, why did he draft the slowest safety in the draft who does almost nothing well, and an OLB who could barely crack a 5-flat 40?

Either your source is off or Pioli is a complete idiot piece of shit.

do you ever STFU? good lord! i bet you annoy the shit out of everyone around you. that guy in the group that everyone kinda dislikes, thats you.

DaWolf
04-25-2010, 02:28 PM
We also had the opportunity to get Brady Quinn, Weis' other college QB, for dirt cheap too and passed. So again, if Charlie really wanted one of his old QB's, it's hard to believe that we'd pass on multiple opportunities to get them...

KC Jones
04-25-2010, 02:28 PM
If Haley had lost (or was even losing) the locker room, no way does the team play like that down the stretch or kick ass in Denver. All we have to go on in this regard is the effort on the field. These guys did not lay down and wait for the season to end.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 02:31 PM
Sorry, but you are wrong. He is a good leader. He is a very good leader, and he leads by example, not just words.

Again, if they have the opportunity to draft a top notch QB, they have my blessings. Drafting a QB with only marginally better talent that is also a headcase and has a nagging toe injury.... just doesn't make much sense to me.

Why reach for a QB in a weak class? Seriously. Take a QB when he is going to be much better than what you have, not just marginally better.

That's what I thought too. Works hard, loves football, good character guy.

What I can't get over is the way he seems to lose his composure sometimes and openly shows his frustration. I also never got the sense that he was "rallying the troops." Much as I hate Sanchez, the one thing I really see in him is a fire that seems contagious. Cassel doesn't seem to have that. It's almost like when the going gets tough, he'd rather sit on the bench and pout.

Tribal Warfare
04-25-2010, 05:29 PM
Essentially, KC is in the Gabbert/Andrew Luck sweepstakes now. It doesn't matter how they tried to add "weapons" to make a 4 yard pass into a 15 yard gain. D-cordinators will tell their DBs to undercut those routes and it will lead to a pick 6.

Frankie
04-25-2010, 09:35 PM
It well could be that Weiss wanted Clausen but that Pioli asked him whether Clausen would be exponentially better than Cassel. Because, bringing in Clausen would be disruptive, leaving us in a position like when Quinn and Anderson were in Cleveland. We didn't need to burn #36 for a QB who was a modest upgrade over Cassel. I have to believe if Clausen was night and day better, Pioli might have used #36 to take him.

There are 3-4 good QBs avalable next year. Most teams have solved their QB problems. Oakland has Campbell. Cleveland got McCoy. Panthers got Clausen. Rams have Bradford. So, that leaves the Bills (unless Broehm or Edwards has a good year), the Redskins, and the Vikings needing QBs next year. The Vikes will pick behind us, so we could get one of the top 3 easily enough. There is no certainty that the Skins or Bills will want to use their #1 for a QB anyway.

So, we get another year to see if Cassel rises to the occasion. If not, we are in excellent position to take a potential QBOTF next season, even though we might win enough games that we only have the 16th pick.

Good post.

Frankie
04-25-2010, 09:40 PM
In fairness, he stepped into a difficult situation and had almost nothing to work with. A new team, new coaching staff, the offense was changed with only a week or so left in the preseason, no playmakers until Charles emerged, receivers who couldn't catch a cold, and a horrible offensive line.

I agree that he is going to have to have a better season but I think a wait and see approach is a warranted before we deem him a "piece of shit."

This is what I have been saying all along. :thumb: But even I give him just this coming year to show something.

Chiefnj2
04-25-2010, 09:40 PM
If this is true, and Weis wanted nothing to do with him, I'll eat my crow and be happy we passed on him. Truly. Weis should know about Jimmy more than anyone. That's good enough for me.

It's hard to believe Weis wanted nothing to do with Clausen, or Tate for that matter, when those two were the primary reason why his collegiate coaching career had any glimmer of hope whatsoever.

Frankie
04-25-2010, 09:42 PM
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Everyone here has a source and that source always supports their opinion. IT's stupid beyond belief. I don't believe a word of this shit.

My source says we should expect a total surprise with our 2nd round picks.

OnTheWarpath58
04-25-2010, 09:44 PM
It's hard to believe Weis wanted nothing to do with Clausen, or Tate for that matter, when those two were the primary reason why his collegiate coaching career had any glimmer of hope whatsoever.

Kiper said it on Friday night before the McCluster pick: Make no mistake, this is Scott Pioli's draft.

I have a hard time believing that either coordinator was on board with either pick in R2, considering the talent on the board at the time.

jspchief
04-25-2010, 09:45 PM
It's hard to believe Weis wanted nothing to do with Clausen, or Tate for that matter, when those two were the primary reason why his collegiate coaching career had any glimmer of hope whatsoever.Not that hard for me to believe. He's seen more of them than anyone, but that doesn't mean what he saw made him believe they were NFL caliber.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-25-2010, 10:04 PM
Kiper said it on Friday night before the McCluster pick: Make no mistake, this is Scott Pioli's draft.

I have a hard time believing that either coordinator was on board with either pick in R2, considering the talent on the board at the time.

Yeah, I am sure they were dead set against it. I am sure that having no input would be appealing to two well established coordinators that had other opportunities. I am sure that basically getting told to STFU would sit well with them.

Are you really that dense?

Chiefnj2
04-25-2010, 10:06 PM
Not that hard for me to believe. He's seen more of them than anyone, but that doesn't mean what he saw made him believe they were NFL caliber.


Those two kept him from being fired a lot earlier than he was.

The Bad Guy
04-25-2010, 10:11 PM
Kiper said it on Friday night before the McCluster pick: Make no mistake, this is Scott Pioli's draft.

I have a hard time believing that either coordinator was on board with either pick in R2, considering the talent on the board at the time.

Mel Kiper is an excellent evaluator of college talent. What he doesn't have is connections to NFL teams to know who is pulling the strings and who is involved in helping with the draft board.

If you truly believe that Charlie Weis's knowledge of college players is going to be ignored after he spent the last 5 years recruiting players and studying far more game film than basically everyone then I don't know what to tell you.

DeezNutz
04-25-2010, 10:14 PM
If you truly believe that Charlie Weis's knowledge of college players is going to be ignored after he spent the last 5 years recruiting players and studying far more game film than basically everyone then I don't know what to tell you.

But these elements don't have to be mutually exclusive, necessarily. In other words, Pioli can respect Weis's opinions about Clausen but still make the decision that Cassel is the long-term answer at QB.

Thus, investing significant resources in a QB, when Haley believes Croyle is a competent backup, makes little sense.

"I respect, ya, Charlie, but Matt's my guy."

Us: Screwed.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 10:17 PM
Kiper said it on Friday night before the McCluster pick: Make no mistake, this is Scott Pioli's draft.

I have a hard time believing that either coordinator was on board with either pick in R2, considering the talent on the board at the time.

Why? Who in Pioli's entire tenure in New England does McCluster resemble?

Weis loves RBs who can catch--Faulk was a 700 yard receiver in New England. He loves to run multiple plays from the same formation--it helps to have versatile players (e.g. a tight end who can block AND catch, a RB/WR who can run the ball or motion to the slot) because the defense doesn't know what you're about to do until you start to see players shift around. Weis loves using those formations to shift players over to take advantage of mismatches--you can expect that if he sees McCluster on the field with heavy run personnel, he'll motion him to the slot. And he loves to use screens as a way to keep pressure off the Quarterback--he seems to think that when DEs attack the Quarterback, they become vulnerable to overpursuit, which is when a screen becomes all the more dangerous. His ability to mix those kinds of looks keeps pass rushers on their toes. Finally, in Notre Dame, he ran the Wildcat a lot.

I'd be surprised if Weis isn't excited about what McCluster can do for him.

The Bad Guy
04-25-2010, 10:18 PM
But these elements don't have to be mutually exclusive, necessarily. In other words, Pioli can respect Weis's opinions about Clausen but still make the decision that Cassel is the long-term answer at QB.

Thus, investing significant resources in a QB, when Haley believes Croyle is a competent backup, makes little sense.

"I respect, ya, Charlie, but Matt's my guy."

Us: Screwed.

If Pioli really thought Cassel was the absolute long-term answer at QB, he's not writing that huge bonus into the contract as an escape clause to get out of it if he falls flat on his face. He's spreading the dollars out in the deal and making him the no-bones about it guy for the next 5 years.

Weis does not believe that Clausen is going to be a productive NFL starter. Parcells guys all believe that a QB has to perform at a high level for 3-4 years as a starter in college. Clausen had just one year of that.

Weis likes Jimmy as a person from everything I've heard. But he doesn't think he has the mental makeup to be a true franchise QB. I don't necessarily agree with that, but that's the info I was given.

OnTheWarpath58
04-25-2010, 10:20 PM
Yeah, I am sure they were dead set against it. I am sure that having no input would be appealing to two well established coordinators that had other opportunities. I am sure that basically getting told to STFU would sit well with them.

Are you really that dense?

Who said they didn't have input, dipshit?

I'm sure they were able to speak their minds, but it doesn't mean that Pioli took what they wanted into consideration.

If RAC wanted a nickle CB over a starting ILB or pass rusher, than God help us all.

DeezNutz
04-25-2010, 10:23 PM
If Pioli really thought Cassel was the absolute long-term answer at QB, he's not writing that huge bonus into the contract as an escape clause to get out of it if he falls flat on his face. He's spreading the dollars out in the deal and making him the no-bones about it guy for the next 5 years.

Weis does not believe that Clausen is going to be a productive NFL starter. Parcells guys all believe that a QB has to perform at a high level for 3-4 years as a starter in college. Clausen had just one year of that.

Weis likes Jimmy as a person from everything I've heard. But he doesn't think he has the mental makeup to be a true franchise QB. I don't necessarily agree with that, but that's the info I was given.

I don't know what to make of this, whether I'm convinced or not, but I think it would be foolish for me to try to argue the point, since you're working off things you've been told by people who seem to have pretty decent connections.

Thus, I'll defer.

Dicky McElephant
04-25-2010, 11:23 PM
Pioli has stated that there is a compettion at every position....

Except of course the two players that he traded for. Cassle anf Vrabel's jobs are safe.

-King-
04-26-2010, 12:33 AM
But these elements don't have to be mutually exclusive, necessarily. In other words, Pioli can respect Weis's opinions about Clausen but still make the decision that Cassel is the long-term answer at QB.

Thus, investing significant resources in a QB, when Haley believes Croyle is a competent backup, makes little sense.

"I respect, ya, Charlie, but Matt's my guy."

Us: Screwed.

Don't you think Weis would have asked that during his interview? He should have known from day 1 if he was going to be allowed to get Clausen or not.
Posted via Mobile Device

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 12:35 AM
Don't you think Weis would have asked that during his interview? He should have known from day 1 if he was going to be allowed to get Clausen or not.
Posted via Mobile Device

You think he's going to ask that in the interview? And even if he did, you think he's going to pass on the job if he's told no?

LMAO

He's going to take the job, because it's a way back into the NFL, and hope he can go to work on Pioli.

-King-
04-26-2010, 12:52 AM
You think he's going to ask that in the interview? And even if he did, you think he's going to pass on the job if he's told no?

LMAO

He's going to take the job, because it's a way back into the NFL, and hope he can go to work on Pioli.

So the Chiefs job was the only job offered to Weis?
Posted via Mobile Device

SenselessChiefsFan
04-26-2010, 07:17 AM
You think he's going to ask that in the interview? And even if he did, you think he's going to pass on the job if he's told no?

LMAO

He's going to take the job, because it's a way back into the NFL, and hope he can go to work on Pioli.

He had at least one other offer from Chicago... and he had interest by six other teams according to the Chicago Sun times.

Yeah, he was 'desperate'.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-26-2010, 07:31 AM
Who said they didn't have input, dipshit?

I'm sure they were able to speak their minds, but it doesn't mean that Pioli took what they wanted into consideration.

If RAC wanted a nickle CB over a starting ILB or pass rusher, than God help us all.

A very good blitzing nickel corner who is very bright and knows the game, who will match up well with smaller shifty WR's who play the slot like Eddie Royal. A guy who will also give Crennel a few more yards of field position to work with because he is a great returner.

Yeah, you know, I bet Crennel hates that. I am sure he would have much rather had guys that had character concerns, work ethic issues, injury issues, or average talent.... because those were the kind of guys available when Arenas was taken.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-26-2010, 07:34 AM
But these elements don't have to be mutually exclusive, necessarily. In other words, Pioli can respect Weis's opinions about Clausen but still make the decision that Cassel is the long-term answer at QB.

Thus, investing significant resources in a QB, when Haley believes Croyle is a competent backup, makes little sense.

"I respect, ya, Charlie, but Matt's my guy."

Us: Screwed.

Here is the thing. If Weis isn't sold on Cassel, and Pioli is set against acquiring anyone else....then Weis doesn't come here.

He could have went to Chicago at the very least. Granted, they have their QB as well. But, he could have taken this year off. He could have went back to work next year. He is well respected and would have opportunities.