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dirk digler
04-25-2010, 09:04 AM
I was pretty down on this draft outside of Berry but maybe I am just stupid.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/football/cowboys/stories/042510dnspogoosegrades.3f4b050.html

KANSAS CITY CHIEFS GRADE: A+
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/standing/sports/logos/football/circlelogo-kcc.gif The Chiefs drafted the NFL defensive rookie of the year in Berry – and a slew of other good players. Arenas was the best returner in the draft, and McCluster will give the AFC matchup problems at both running back and receiver.

Messier
04-25-2010, 09:08 AM
Gosselin's a moron.

Reerun_KC
04-25-2010, 09:09 AM
In before thread is hijacked with hate.

unothadeal
04-25-2010, 09:10 AM
Just give us the Lombardi now

Marcellus
04-25-2010, 09:14 AM
In before thread is hijacked with hate.

:)

No shit, while I don't care what most of the media heads write, I find it interesting that their level of intelligence is usually decided by how close they agree with the posters own opinions.

All I care about is what I see on the field, I will pass judgment at that time.

dirk digler
04-25-2010, 09:14 AM
In before thread is hijacked with hate.

LMAO You were to late.

People think Gosselin makes the best mock drafts so I think his grade is pretty interesting.

Hoover
04-25-2010, 09:16 AM
THIS DRAFT SUCKED, well except for Berry. WTF WAS SCOTT PIOLI DOING?

What? Rich Gosselin said it was an A+?

This could be the greatest draft ever. I can't wait for the season to start.

Von Dumbass
04-25-2010, 09:16 AM
http://i43.tinypic.com/21k9mdi.png

:) :)

Marcellus
04-25-2010, 09:17 AM
LMAO You were to late.

People think Gosselin makes the best mock drafts so I think his grade is pretty interesting.


The same people that were agreeing with him before will be putting his teeth on the curb and stomping on the back of his head.

Marcellus
04-25-2010, 09:18 AM
http://i43.tinypic.com/21k9mdi.png

:) :)

Hope that makes up for Tebow. What are you going to do with Clady now that you have a LH QB? Move him to RT?

TheGuardian
04-25-2010, 09:18 AM
Interesting because I've been reading around and most everyone thinks the chiefs had a great draft.

dirk digler
04-25-2010, 09:20 AM
The same people that were agreeing with him before will be putting his teeth on the curb and stomping on the back of his head.

Probably so but they do have valid complaints. I don't get ignoring the weakest part of your team for the 2nd year in a row.

Von Dumbass
04-25-2010, 09:21 AM
Hope that makes up for Tebow. What are you going to do with Clady now that you have a LH QB? Move him to RT?

Tebow was the steal of the draft IMO. I don't know what happens with our tackles, we got two blue chip tackles though with Clady and Harris so no matter what Denver is fine.

Marcellus
04-25-2010, 09:23 AM
Probably so but they do have valid complaints. I don't get ignoring the weakest part of your team for the 2nd year in a row.

I am disappointed in the lack of LB and NT myself. What that tells me is Pioli and company think we can improve with what we already have.


I guess we shall see.

Delano
04-25-2010, 09:23 AM
Tebow was the steal of the draft IMO. I don't know what happens with our tackles, we got two blue chip tackles though with Clady and Harris so no matter what Denver is fine.

If by steal you mean reach, then yeah.
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Marcellus
04-25-2010, 09:23 AM
Tebow was the steal of the draft IMO. I don't know what happens with our tackles, we got two blue chip tackles though with Clady and Harris so no matter what Denver is fine.

Where was he going to be picked if they didn't snag him at 25?

dirk digler
04-25-2010, 09:25 AM
I am disappointed in the lack of LB and NT myself. What that tells me is Pioli and company think we can improve with what we already have.


I guess we shall see.

I can understand that thinking a little bit in regards to the D-Line because they are young but we really don't have any young players at LB. I don't see Vrabel, Corey Mays, Hali and Demarrio Williams really improving much if any.

Von Dumbass
04-25-2010, 09:26 AM
Where was he going to be picked if they didn't snag him at 25?

He wouldn't have lasted 10 more picks I know that. I am not trying to hijack this Chiefs thread and turn it into another Tebow thread, but I think Tebow will be in the HOF when all is said and done.

Hog Farmer
04-25-2010, 09:28 AM
Tebow was the steal of the draft IMO. I don't know what happens with our tackles, we got two blue chip tackles though with Clady and Harris so no matter what Denver is fine.


He might have been the steal of the draft but he could have been stolen in the 5th round. McDaniels is a meth head.

Marcellus
04-25-2010, 09:28 AM
I can understand that thinking a little bit in regards to the D-Line because they are young but we really don't have any young players at LB. I don't see Vrabel, Corey Mays, Hali and Demarrio Williams really improving much if any.

Yea I have stated over and over before that I believe DJ has reached his ceiling so I am not changing my tune now. I just hope I am wrong about that.

Marcellus
04-25-2010, 09:29 AM
He wouldn't have lasted 10 more picks I know that. I am not trying to hijack this Chiefs thread and turn it into another Tebow thread, but I think Tebow will be in the HOF when all is said and done.

I am not a Tebow hater, he catches shit because of all the pub and his faith. He is a good kid.

That being said, I don't see him being successful in the NFL.

CosmicPal
04-25-2010, 09:30 AM
I can understand that thinking a little bit in regards to the D-Line because they are young but we really don't have any young players at LB. I don't see Vrabel, Corey Mays, Hali and Demarrio Williams really improving much if any.

You forgot Belcher, Studebaker, Sheffield, Walters, Herron, and Derrick Johnson. :D

dirk digler
04-25-2010, 09:31 AM
He might have been the steal of the draft but he could have been stolen in the 5th round. McDaniels is a meth head.

LMAO

milkman
04-25-2010, 09:32 AM
The same people that were agreeing with him before will be putting his teeth on the curb and stomping on the back of his head.

JFC, do you people understand that the reason that people look to Gossilin's draft isn't because he's some great fucking evaluator?

His last mock draft for the first round is usually the most accurate because he has some of the best sources in the business.

His mocks leading up to his final mock are usually pretty fucking bad because he's a fucking moron on his own evaluations of talent and team needs.

Mr. Arrowhead
04-25-2010, 09:32 AM
but I think Tebow will be in the HOF when all is said and done.

Oh My, ROFL

Gonzo
04-25-2010, 09:33 AM
He wouldn't have lasted 10 more picks I know that. I am not trying to hijack this Chiefs thread and turn it into another Tebow thread, but I think Tebow will be in the HOF when all is said and done.
This has to be a mult account. No one is this stupid.
Posted via Mobile Device

dirk digler
04-25-2010, 09:33 AM
You forgot Belcher, Studebaker, Sheffield, Walters, Herron, and Derrick Johnson. :D

Ooops my bad :)

In all seriousness I do like Studebaker and I was kind of hoping Sheffield might be a starter then I realized he is going to be playing behind Hali.

Reerun_KC
04-25-2010, 09:34 AM
JFC, do you people understand that the reason that people look to Gossilin's draft isn't because he's some great ****ing evaluator?

His last mock draft for the first round is usually the most accurate because he has some of the best sources in the business.

His mocks leading up to his final mock are usually pretty ****ing bad because he's a ****ing moron on his own evaluations of talent and team needs.

See if NFL teams would listen to the CP Horsemen, the NFL as a whole would benefit greatly, Wouldnt you agree?

Messier
04-25-2010, 09:35 AM
JFC, do you people understand that the reason that people look to Gossilin's draft isn't because he's some great ****ing evaluator?

His last mock draft for the first round is usually the most accurate because he has some of the best sources in the business.

His mocks leading up to his final mock are usually pretty ****ing bad because he's a ****ing moron on his own evaluations of talent and team needs.

Shut up!

milkman
04-25-2010, 09:36 AM
See if NFL teams would listen to the CP Horsemen, the NFL as a whole would benefit greatly, Wouldnt you agree?

Just shut up.

You're a fucking hypocrite, and I got no fucking use for hypocrites.

bevischief
04-25-2010, 09:37 AM
When was the last time anyone every gave the Chiefs A+ draft?

Messier
04-25-2010, 09:38 AM
When was the last time anyone every gave the Chiefs A+ draft?

Two years ago.

Flachief58
04-25-2010, 09:40 AM
If by hof you mean home of the forgotten, then I agreeHe wouldn't have lasted 10 more picks I know that. I am not trying to hijack this Chiefs thread and turn it into another Tebow thread, but I think Tebow will be in the HOF when all is said and done.

Lzen
04-25-2010, 09:40 AM
I think some people feel as though they are smarter than Pioli and Haley and could run a draft better. Sure, I was kind of scratching my head with some of those picks. But I think it's completely unfair and quite frankly, moronic to say they had a bad draft when we don't know how these guys will pan out. I have always felt that you can't judge a draft until at least 3-4 years down the road.

I will trust the guys at One Arrowhead for now and take a wait and see approach. I think they at least deserve that.

As for the LB corps and the NT position, I wish we would have addressed those. But I also wonder if they feel that they could not address all of those needs in this on draft. Perhaps we will see a FA or 2 and then they address the LB and NT issue in next year's draft.

TEX
04-25-2010, 09:41 AM
I was pretty down on this draft outside of Berry but maybe I am just stupid.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/football/cowboys/stories/042510dnspogoosegrades.3f4b050.html

KANSAS CITY CHIEFS GRADE: A+
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/standing/sports/logos/football/circlelogo-kcc.gif The Chiefs drafted the NFL defensive rookie of the year in Berry – and a slew of other good players. Arenas was the best returner in the draft, and McCluster will give the AFC matchup problems at both running back and receiver.

ROFL

-King-
04-25-2010, 09:41 AM
JFC, do you people understand that the reason that people look to Gossilin's draft isn't because he's some great fucking evaluator?

His last mock draft for the first round is usually the most accurate because he has some of the best sources in the business.

His mocks leading up to his final mock are usually pretty fucking bad because he's a fucking moron on his own evaluations of talent and team needs.

That's cause his 1st two aren't really mocks.
Posted via Mobile Device

CupidStunt
04-25-2010, 09:42 AM
He wouldn't have lasted 10 more picks I know that. I am not trying to hijack this Chiefs thread and turn it into another Tebow thread, but I think Tebow will be in the HOF when all is said and done.

LMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAO

TEX
04-25-2010, 09:44 AM
I think some people feel as though they are smarter than Pioli and Haley and could run a draft better. Sure, I was kind of scratching my head with some of those picks. But I think it's completely unfair and quite frankly, moronic to say they had a bad draft when we don't know how these guys will pan out. I have always felt that you can't judge a draft until at least 3-4 years down the road.

I will trust the guys at One Arrowhead for now and take a wait and see approach. I think they at least deserve that.

As for the LB corps and the NT position, I wish we would have addressed those. But I also wonder if they feel that they could not address all of those needs in this on draft. Perhaps we will see a FA or 2 and then they address the LB and NT issue in next year's draft.


No - what's completely unfair is to forget that everyone is entitled to thier own opinion. If it's different from yours, it's not moronic, it's just a difference of opinion.

Ugly Duck
04-25-2010, 09:45 AM
Tebow will be in the HOF when all is said and done.

Kewl! I didn't know there is a College Football Hall of Fame. Where is that, anyway?

dirk digler
04-25-2010, 09:45 AM
As for the LB corps and the NT position, I wish we would have addressed those. But I also wonder if they feel that they could not address all of those needs in this on draft. Perhaps we will see a FA or 2 and then they address the LB and NT issue in next year's draft.

Unfortunately that is what I am thinking. IMO that is kind of backwards considering to run the 3-4 effective you need a dominant NT and linebackers. They probably should have started with those first and worked on the secondary last outside of Berry.

Gonzo
04-25-2010, 09:47 AM
No - what's completely unfair is to forget that everyone is entitled to thier own opinion. If it's different from yours, it's not moronic, it's just a difference of opinion.

Really? C'mon man, you've been around here long enough to know that if you're opinion is not that of the consensus, you're and idiot.

:D
Posted via Mobile Device

TEX
04-25-2010, 09:48 AM
When was the last time anyone every gave the Chiefs A+ draft?

As others have said - 2 years ago. How's that one turnng out?

TEX
04-25-2010, 09:48 AM
Really? C'mon man, you've been around here long enough to know that if you're opinion is not that of the consensus, you're and idiot.

:D
Posted via Mobile Device

Oh yeah - I forgot. This IDIOT stands corrected! :doh!:

ILChief
04-25-2010, 09:49 AM
Kewl! I didn't know there is a College Football Hall of Fame. Where is that, anyway?

South Bend

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 09:52 AM
I am disappointed in the lack of LB and NT myself. What that tells me is Pioli and company think we can improve with what we already have.


I guess we shall see.

No, I think it means that in the later rounds, you stick to your board. You don't panic and draft based on 2 positions. It's not like this is our only chance to get NTs and OLBs. We have two seasons, including a loaded free agency market in 2011, to get those guys. In the meantime, we have guys who are serviceable.

rockymtnchief
04-25-2010, 10:00 AM
Unfortunately that is what I am thinking. IMO that is kind of backwards considering to run the 3-4 effective you need a dominant NT and linebackers. They probably should have started with those first and worked on the secondary last outside of Berry.

That's my thinking. KC just spent the last couple days making a delicious frosting to put on a turd cake. They built a beautiful home built on a sand foundation. Chip Foos rims on a Pinto.

Get the good stuff underneath, then top it off with something sweet. Not the other way around.

I don't mind who they took. It's who was left available that left me scratching my head.

jAZ
04-25-2010, 10:05 AM
All I care about is what I see on the field, I will pass judgment at that time.

We sew hate in these parts, boy. Die in an AIDS tree filled with Al Davis and a herd of humping monkeys.

Mosbonian
04-25-2010, 10:06 AM
No - what's completely unfair is to forget that everyone is entitled to thier own opinion. If it's different from yours, it's not moronic, it's just a difference of opinion.

If people only truly followed your above statement, the Planet during the month of April might be fun to read and offer discussions. But unfortunately it doesn't happen that way...Gonzo is right in that if you don't hate on something then you are labeled an idiot.

For me....there is one person on here that I really respect when it comes to draft/player evaluation. And rather than spend my time reading all the vitriol I just wait to see his takes.

mmaddog
********

jAZ
04-25-2010, 10:09 AM
Unfortunately that is what I am thinking. IMO that is kind of backwards considering to run the 3-4 effective you need a dominant NT and linebackers. They probably should have started with those first and worked on the secondary last outside of Berry.

If these guys have a high positional value on the DL and they passed on DL the entire weekend, my guess is that they didn't think this was a very good draft at the position(s) and with the draft's overall depth they filled other holes with better players.

If Cody is the best player we could have gotten at #2 and we'd never pick him on our team because he's fat and lazy, I'm guessing we weren't that impressed with the position overall in this draft.

Gonzo
04-25-2010, 10:11 AM
Gonzo is right

This is really all you people need to know, ever.

:D
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dirk digler
04-25-2010, 10:16 AM
That's my thinking. KC just spent the last couple days making a delicious frosting to put on a turd cake. They built a beautiful home built on a sand foundation. Chip Foos rims on a Pinto.

Get the good stuff underneath, then top it off with something sweet. Not the other way around.

I don't mind who they took. It's who was left available that left me scratching my head.

Yep build the foundation and then you can add all the special parts.

The Bad Guy
04-25-2010, 10:17 AM
I respect this guys opinion more than any other so I think it's a good thing he gave us the highest grade.

milkman
04-25-2010, 10:19 AM
I respect this guys opinion more than any other so I think it's a good thing he gave us the highest grade.

When it comes to his own opinions, he's about as useless as everyone else out there.

the Talking Can
04-25-2010, 10:27 AM
he also said:

"Kindle and Cody were steals." for the ravens


True Fans spent yesterday swearing they were bad picks and thank god we didn't take them....so i'm guessing they will all now admit to being wrong, since Gosselin has spoken

the Talking Can
04-25-2010, 10:29 AM
he also said:

"A team with quarterback problems no longer has any with the arrivals of Clausen and Pike"

of carolina


good thing we weren't a team with a quarterback problem...again, i'm guessing this the thread the True Fans admit to being wrong about Claussen since Gosselin has spoken

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-25-2010, 10:30 AM
ROFL

What did he say that wasn't true? I'd have gone differently with those picks, but McCluster is a dynamic player and it will cause nightmares for defenses trying to defend him and Charles. Boy it will suck having 2 guys that can turn a short pass or any run into a long TD.

PatriotReign
04-25-2010, 10:31 AM
Chiefs are at least an 8 win team.

They battle with Denver for 2nd spot in the AFCW

notorious
04-25-2010, 10:31 AM
What did he say that wasn't true? I'd have gone differently with those picks, but McCluster is a dynamic player and it will cause nightmares for defenses trying to defend him and Charles. Boy it will suck having 2 guys that can turn a short pass or any run into a long TD.

This is the new KC Chiefs.

When you can't stretch the field with the long ball, stretch the swing pass.

PatriotReign
04-25-2010, 10:33 AM
This is the new KC Chiefs.

When you can't stretch the field with the long ball, stretch the swing pass.

Screens and misdirection plays.

milkman
04-25-2010, 10:34 AM
he also said:

"Kindle and Cody were steals." for the ravens


True Fans spent yesterday swearing they were bad picks and thank god we didn't take them....so i'm guessing they will all now admit to being wrong, since Gosselin has spoken

he also said:

"A team with quarterback problems no longer has any with the arrivals of Clausen and Pike"

of carolina


good thing we weren't a team with a quarterback problem...again, i'm guessing this the thread the True Fans admit to being wrong about Claussen since Gosselin has spoken

This should be interesting.

gblowfish
04-25-2010, 10:43 AM
Chiefs might win six games this year.
You can't fix it all in one year, with one draft.
Still need a tackle, inside linebacker, wide receiver, nose tackle.
That's next year.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 10:44 AM
he also said:

"Kindle and Cody were steals." for the ravens


True Fans spent yesterday swearing they were bad picks and thank god we didn't take them....so i'm guessing they will all now admit to being wrong, since Gosselin has spoken

I don't understand the obsession with Kindle/Cody. Would they have been good picks at that spot? Yeah. But both come with a lot of risk. Kindle with his injured legs and Cody with his weight/motivation issues. There's a reason both fell as low as they did.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 10:46 AM
he also said:

"A team with quarterback problems no longer has any with the arrivals of Clausen and Pike"

of carolina


good thing we weren't a team with a quarterback problem...again, i'm guessing this the thread the True Fans admit to being wrong about Claussen since Gosselin has spoken

I would have taken Clausen. Hindsight is 20/20--I would have taken him in the first, given that nobody had any idea he'd slide that low. And I'd have to think that if he fell to 50, the Chiefs would have taken him. But given we knew he'd fall 10 spots from where he eventually landed, it would have been a reach.

milkman
04-25-2010, 10:47 AM
I don't understand the obsession with Kindle/Cody. Would they have been good picks at that spot? Yeah. But both come with a lot of risk. Kindle with his injured legs and Cody with his weight/motivation issues. There's a reason both fell as low as they did.

But Gosselin gave our draft a good grade, and everyone says they'll take his words more than any one else, so, you can't just pick and choose which of his words carry more weight.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 10:48 AM
Chiefs might win six games this year.
You can't fix it all in one year, with one draft.
Still need a tackle, inside linebacker, wide receiver, nose tackle.
That's next year.

And keep in mind that we're never going to be perfect at every position--if I had to choose, I'd pick ILB and maybe receiver (given Weis' offensive approach) as way down on the priority list. And also that the free agency market in 2011 is going to be extremely rich with two classes of URFAs, essentially, and if Pioli's track record tells us anything, it's probably a year you expect him to load up on players.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 10:50 AM
But Gosselin gave our draft a good grade, and everyone says they'll take his words more than any one else, so, you can't just pick and choose which of his words carry more weight.

I really like Gosselin.

I liked Kindle. I liked Cody. And I really liked Clausen. Either of them would have done fine.

But Gosselin also says we got good value in McCluster and Arenas. I'm so-so on the Arenas pick. I'm just trying to understand why so many people are pissed off to all hell that this was such a missed pick when most of the draft experts like Gosselin seem to love it.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 10:51 AM
I really like Gosselin.

I liked Kindle. I liked Cody. And I really liked Clausen. Either of them would have done fine.

But Gosselin also says we got good value in McCluster and Arenas. I'm so-so on the Arenas pick. I'm just trying to understand why so many people are pissed off to all hell that this was such a missed pick when most of the draft experts like Gosselin seem to love it.

And by the way, since the claim was that Gosselin has great sources, I think the point to be made is that if Gosselin rated the draft as an A+, that's a sign that he's saying "based on what I know from my sources, this was the right spot to take these guys."

milkman
04-25-2010, 10:55 AM
And by the way, since the claim was that Gosselin has great sources, I think the point to be made is that if Gosselin rated the draft as an A+, that's a sign that he's saying "based on what I know from my sources, this was the right spot to take these guys."

He has great sources for his final mock.

Does he use these sources to write his grades?

Sully
04-25-2010, 10:55 AM
But Gosselin gave our draft a good grade, and everyone says they'll take his words more than any one else, so, you can't just pick and choose which of his words carry more weight.

That's silly.
There are thousands of people in the world who's opinion I value more than others(in any number of topics), but also pick and choose what I agree and disagree with.

LaChapelle
04-25-2010, 10:55 AM
A+ for trying to sell tickets
It's a business first and hometown points is what the average ticket buyer wants
No QB in this class could've done that

dirk digler
04-25-2010, 10:56 AM
he also said:

"A team with quarterback problems no longer has any with the arrivals of Clausen and Pike"

of carolina


good thing we weren't a team with a quarterback problem...again, i'm guessing this the thread the True Fans admit to being wrong about Claussen since Gosselin has spoken

I didn't like hardly any of the picks and haven't defended many of them but alot of the so-called experts like our draft so maybe I am just stupid. That wouldn't be some kind of shock or anything.

milkman
04-25-2010, 10:57 AM
That's silly.
There are thousands of people in the world who's opinion I value more than others(in any number of topics), but also pick and choose what I agree and disagree with.

Thank you.

You simply proved TC's point.

The Bad Guy
04-25-2010, 10:59 AM
I'm going to say it right now. Jimmy Clausen will not beat out Matt Moore.

Mosbonian
04-25-2010, 11:01 AM
I didn't like hardly any of the picks and haven't defended many of them but alot of the so-called experts like our draft so maybe I am just stupid. That wouldn't be some kind of shock or anything.

I am ok with you or anyone scratching their head if they don't agree....that's just a difference in opinion, which is part of how this place got started.

It's when the discussions get personal that I shake my head and wonder.

mmaddog
********

milkman
04-25-2010, 11:02 AM
I'm going to say it right now. Jimmy Clausen will not beat out Matt Moore.

I don't give a rat's ass about Jimmy Clasen.

Never once have I said that he's a guy that I wanted.

I have always said that I wasn't sold on him.

This isn't about any specific player.

This is about full time players vs. part time players.

Mr. Laz
04-25-2010, 11:06 AM
I hope Gosselin is right but i just don't see it.

imo there is no way that McCluster makes up for that fact that our run defense sucks ass.

imo there is no way Arenas improves the return game enough to make up for having bad linebackers in a 3-4 defense.

DBOSHO
04-25-2010, 11:16 AM
I have a hard time believing that we had a better draft than the seahawks.

Mosbonian
04-25-2010, 11:16 AM
I hope Gosselin is right but i just don't see it.

imo there is no way that McCluster makes up for that fact that our run defense sucks ass.

imo there is no way Arenas improves the return game enough to make up for having bad linebackers in a 3-4 defense.

And you could be absolutely correct....but I don't think that Cody or Kindle would have made that much of a difference either. There are just too many people dogging Cody for his work ethic (as they did the kid from NC). And Kindle came with injury concerns....

Now...were there other Defensive studs we could have taken there? I'm not the expert. But it seems there were some that were available in later rounds that made me scratch my head as to why we didn't take a flyer on.

mmaddog
********

dirk digler
04-25-2010, 11:18 AM
This isn't about any specific player.

This is about full time players vs. part time players.

This is pretty much my main complaint. I wanted 4 starters at the end of round 3 I think we got 2.

dirk digler
04-25-2010, 11:19 AM
I am ok with you or anyone scratching their head if they don't agree....that's just a difference in opinion, which is part of how this place got started.

It's when the discussions get personal that I shake my head and wonder.

mmaddog
********

I mostly agree but I was pretty pissed on Friday night and it wasn't a good sight. :D

patteeu
04-25-2010, 11:22 AM
Yep build the foundation and then you can add all the special parts.

A week ago, a statement like that gets you labeled a "True Fan".

ILChief
04-25-2010, 11:26 AM
I have a hard time believing that we had a better draft than the seahawks.

ironic. If you listened to all the CP wanna be Mel Kipers before the draft (when there was talk of the Chiefs being interested), Russell Okung was a POS that couldn't block me coming off the edge. Now that the Chiefs didn't take him he's the crown jewel of a great Seahawks draft.

chris
04-25-2010, 11:26 AM
I think some people feel as though they are smarter than Pioli and Haley and could run a draft better. Sure, I was kind of scratching my head with some of those picks. But I think it's completely unfair and quite frankly, moronic to say they had a bad draft when we don't know how these guys will pan out. I have always felt that you can't judge a draft until at least 3-4 years down the road.

I will trust the guys at One Arrowhead for now and take a wait and see approach. I think they at least deserve that.

As for the LB corps and the NT position, I wish we would have addressed those. But I also wonder if they feel that they could not address all of those needs in this on draft. Perhaps we will see a FA or 2 and then they address the LB and NT issue in next year's draft.

WHAT!?! You are injecting logic into this thread? Impressive.

alnorth
04-25-2010, 11:27 AM
My theory is SEC bias. I'm wondering if a lot of southern sportswriters, after suffering through losses by their favorite teams partially by these dazzling playmakers, now have an overinflated view of their worth.

Kind of like how we get a little excited when a good KU/KSU/MU player goes somewhere, and the rest of the nation is thinking "who?"

chris
04-25-2010, 11:28 AM
Really? C'mon man, you've been around here long enough to know that if you're opinion is not that of the consensus, you're and idiot.

:D
Posted via Mobile Device

You mean, small, loud voice minority consensus.

milkman
04-25-2010, 11:28 AM
A week ago, a statement like that gets you labeled a "True Fan".

We aren't talking about taking O-Lineman here.

We are talking foundational player that could come in and start and have playmaking ability.

We are talking about full time playmaker v. part time play maker.

HotRoute
04-25-2010, 11:31 AM
He wouldn't have lasted 10 more picks I know that. I am not trying to hijack this Chiefs thread and turn it into another Tebow thread, but I think Tebow will be in the HOF when all is said and done.

hmmmmmmmmm............. lets not get ahead of ourselves now.

milkman
04-25-2010, 11:33 AM
ironic. If you listened to all the CP wanna be Mel Kipers before the draft (when there was talk of the Chiefs being interested), Russell Okung was a POS that couldn't block me coming off the edge. Now that the Chiefs didn't take him he's the crown jewel of a great Seahawks draft.

No, that isn't what we said.

He does have problems with the bull rush and getting pushed staight back into the QB, so he isn't any better as a prospect than Albert is, which is why we argued that he shouldn't be the pick.

When Okung's sac continuously told us how he sealed the edge we simply told him he was full of shit.

But he was the top LT prospect in this draft, and the Seahawks had a legitimate need at LT, so he's a good pick for thier need.

But go ahead a be a fucking dumbass.

Saccopoo
04-25-2010, 11:38 AM
Hope that makes up for Tebow. What are you going to do with Clady now that you have a LH QB? Move him to RT?

If I were them, I'd leave Clady at LT and make Beadles your RT. He's been a top notch blindside defender in college and would easily slide over to the right side. They seriously upgraded their offensive line, and added a ton of play makers. Getting Thompson and Cox where they did was unbelievable.

I hate the fucking Broncos, but they had a fantastic draft.

Saccopoo
04-25-2010, 11:42 AM
No, that isn't what we said.

He does have problems with the bull rush and getting pushed staight back into the QB, so he isn't any better as a prospect than Albert is, which is why we argued that he shouldn't be the pick.

When Okung's sac continuously told us how he sealed the edge we simply told him he was full of shit.

But he was the top LT prospect in this draft, and the Seahawks had a legitimate need at LT, so he's a good pick for thier need.

But go ahead a be a ****ing dumbass.

There was simply a difference of opinion regarding Okung as it related to the Chiefs. The Drafturbators were fine with Albert. I wasn't. And since Okung played against a lot of guys who were high quality pass rushers and didn't give up a sack to them (Orakpo, Kindle, Sharpe, Miller, etc.), I felt he did a fantastic job of sealing the edge. However, the Seahawks didn't really have anyone at LT. Chiefs had a young guy that hopefully can develop.

Okung to the Seahawks was as good a pick and as necessary a pick as Berry to the Chiefs. Both teams were overjoyed that each were on the board when they picked.

ILChief
04-25-2010, 11:47 AM
If I were them, I'd leave Clady at LT and make Beadles your RT. He's been a top notch blindside defender in college and would easily slide over to the right side. They seriously upgraded their offensive line, and added a ton of play makers. Getting Thompson and Cox where they did was unbelievable.

I hate the fucking Broncos, but they had a fantastic draft.


I think the WR they took in the first sucks. And Tebow was perhaps the biggest reach in the history of the draft.

milkman
04-25-2010, 11:47 AM
There was simply a difference of opinion regarding Okung as it related to the Chiefs. The Drafturbators were fine with Albert. I wasn't. And since Okung played against a lot of guys who were high quality pass rushers and didn't give up a sack to them (Orakpo, Kindle, Sharpe, Miller, etc.), I felt he did a fantastic job of sealing the edge. However, the Seahawks didn't really have anyone at LT. Chiefs had a young guy that hopefully can develop.

Okung to the Seahawks was as good a pick and as necessary a pick as Berry to the Chiefs. Both teams were overjoyed that each were on the board when they picked.

And what you called sealing the edge was, in fact, Okung getting pushed staright back into a QB who was getting rid of the ball far too quickly for Okung to be owned.

RedThat
04-25-2010, 11:50 AM
I hope Gosselin is right but i just don't see it.

imo there is no way that McCluster makes up for that fact that our run defense sucks ass.

imo there is no way Arenas improves the return game enough to make up for having bad linebackers in a 3-4 defense.

Yes Laz, you are absolutely right, but, there is a but there, one can also say they will improve our team overall.

McCluster will make the offense better. And Arenas will improve the return game, and I think he will contribute on defense as well. And you and I sure know this team REALLY needed a return man.

Saccopoo
04-25-2010, 11:55 AM
I think the WR they took in the first sucks. And Tebow was perhaps the biggest reach in the history of the draft.

No, Tebow was going to go around that spot to someone. He's a Heisman trophy winner, a two time national champion, is physically prototype, and has all those intangibles. It wasn't a reach at all. Considering all the turds that have gone high as quarterbacks, such as Jamarcus Russell with the overall #1, I don't think that Tebow in the late first round is a stretch by any measure. Add to that that they got him for nothing (used the picks that they got from moving down), I think it's a hell of a pick.

And Demaryius Thomas was a legit first rounder by everyone's account. If he played in any other system other than Georgia Tech's wishbone, he would have put up staggering numbers.

JASONSAUTO
04-25-2010, 11:57 AM
But Gosselin gave our draft a good grade, and everyone says they'll take his words more than any one else, so, you can't just pick and choose which of his words carry more weight.

go to the walter thread and read your posts
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Saccopoo
04-25-2010, 11:58 AM
And what you called sealing the edge was, in fact, Okung getting pushed staright back into a QB who was getting rid of the ball far too quickly for Okung to be owned.

Don't start. Fact is, he didn't give up a sack to some of the best pass rushers in college, OSU led the Big 12 in rushing and he was a big part of that.

You don't like him. Pete Carroll did.

orange
04-25-2010, 11:59 AM
Where was he going to be picked if they didn't snag him at 25?

He might have been the steal of the draft but he could have been stolen in the 5th round. McDaniels is a meth head.

Tebow went right where he was expected to go.

NEW YORK -- The hot spot for first-round trade movement? Try the bottom third of the round.

NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock predicted that teams would look to leap frog the Minnesota Vikings with the 30th overall pick for a chance at a quarterback.

That's where Mayock envisions teams such as the Buffalo Bills attempting to trade up from early in the second round to try and snag either former Florida QB Tim Tebow, the 2007 Heisman winner, or Texas QB Colt McCoy, the quarterback with an NCAA-record 45 wins in 53 career starts.

"I think we're going to get a lot more movement in the back third of the first round than we've ever seen,'' Mayock said. "Teams are going to scramble to get the third and fourth quarterbacks, Tebow and McCoy because after them, there's a dropoff.

Maybe you prefer King or Schefter:


Rotoworld:
Interested teams are discussing trades into the "final ten or so picks" of first round for a shot at Tim Tebow, according to SI.com's Peter King.

ESPN's Adam Schefter had an identical report, adding that the more he hears the more he believes Tebow will be a first-rounder. Schefter also expects Colt McCoy and Jimmy Clausen to go off the board in the first round. Denver and Buffalo appear to be the most likely destinations for Tebow.
Source: Peter King on Twitter

ILChief
04-25-2010, 12:00 PM
No, Tebow was going to go around that spot to someone. He's a Heisman trophy winner, a two time national champion, is physically prototype, and has all those intangibles. It wasn't a reach at all. Considering all the turds that have gone high as quarterbacks, such as Jamarcus Russell with the overall #1, I don't think that Tebow in the late first round is a stretch by any measure. Add to that that they got him for nothing (used the picks that they got from moving down), I think it's a hell of a pick.

And Demaryius Thomas was a legit first rounder by everyone's account. If he played in any other system other than Georgia Tech's wishbone, he would have put up staggering numbers.

Even if you're correct, I doubt those guys will be better than Cutler and Marshall.

DaWolf
04-25-2010, 12:02 PM
I hope Gosselin is right but i just don't see it.

imo there is no way that McCluster makes up for that fact that our run defense sucks ass.

imo there is no way Arenas improves the return game enough to make up for having bad linebackers in a 3-4 defense.

I could look at it the other way as well.

There's no way Rookie Linebacker A makes up for the fact that we can't return a kick worth crap, of there's no way Rookie NT B makes up for the fact that Charles is the only guy on our otherwise slow ass offense who can break a big play, and he can't touch the ball on every play.

I don't think this team is in a position where it can pick and choose who it needs at certain spots, because the needs are everywhere. It's like one of those things where you plug one leak and another one springs open.

I think the guys running this show just looked at it and said we need guys like DJ and Studabaker and Dorsey and Jackson to step it up this year on D, but we have no one on O who is going to be able to step it up and provide the skills that maybe McCluster brings to the table. We'll see...

teedubya
04-25-2010, 12:08 PM
I want some of what Rick Gosselin is smoking.

alanm
04-25-2010, 12:08 PM
He wouldn't have lasted 10 more picks I know that. I am not trying to hijack this Chiefs thread and turn it into another Tebow thread, but I think Tebow will be in the HOF when all is said and done.Right next to Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell.

orange
04-25-2010, 12:11 PM
Right next to Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell.

Yes, because Tim Tebow is just like those two lazy-ass POSs. ROFL

bevischief
04-25-2010, 12:12 PM
I want some of what Rick Gosselin is smoking.

Don't we all...
Posted via Mobile Device

Saccopoo
04-25-2010, 12:13 PM
Right next to Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell.

That's a perfect comparison - all the physical intangibles and they don't give one shit about the game.

Tebow loves the game and won't end up in Vegas like those other nitwits did right after they were drafted. At the very least you get a guy who loves to play the game and will work his ass off to make every effort to be a success in the league.

That's what separates Tebow from clown shoes like that. Thank you for making a perfect argument for Tebow versus other QB's that went high in the draft that nobody had a problem taking in their respective drafts.

Pitt Gorilla
04-25-2010, 12:19 PM
I think some people feel as though they are smarter than Pioli and Haley and could run a draft better. Sure, I was kind of scratching my head with some of those picks. But I think it's completely unfair and quite frankly, moronic to say they had a bad draft when we don't know how these guys will pan out. I have always felt that you can't judge a draft until at least 3-4 years down the road.

I will trust the guys at One Arrowhead for now and take a wait and see approach. I think they at least deserve that.

As for the LB corps and the NT position, I wish we would have addressed those. But I also wonder if they feel that they could not address all of those needs in this on draft. Perhaps we will see a FA or 2 and then they address the LB and NT issue in next year's draft.To be fair, most CP posters have better access to film, run more private workouts for players, and hire more scouts than the Chiefs do. Most fans also have a better handle on the abilities of the current players and what our new staff thinks they can do with them. I thought that was fairly clear.

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 12:30 PM
Hope that makes up for Tebow. What are you going to do with Clady now that you have a LH QB? Move him to RT?

Did the Bengals move Munoz to right tackle because Esiason was a lefty?

Regardless of whether or not the QB is left handed or righthanded, you still need an elite left tackle to match up against an elite RDE.

milkman
04-25-2010, 12:35 PM
To be fair, most CP posters have better access to film, run more private workouts for players, and hire more scouts than the Chiefs do. Most fans also have a better handle on the abilities of the current players and what our new staff thinks they can do with them. I thought that was fairly clear.

What a useless fucking post.

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 12:36 PM
Interesting because I've been reading around and most everyone thinks the chiefs had a great draft.

Well, I know I'm in the minority but I liked this draft very much.

As I said about last year, if Pioli had taken Matthews, Cushing, Oher, Harvin, etc. at #3 overall, people would have bitched but Pioli would have been right.

This year, people are bitching but unlike last year, I think Pioli IS right this year.

You can find NT's and ILB on cut down day that can fill a need. What you can't find are the best young returners in the country, young playmaking slot receivers and young instinctive football players.

They'll probably only win 6-7 games this year. I think 2012 is the year they become a consistent playoff team, IF Pioli's plan works.

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 12:42 PM
This is pretty much my main complaint. I wanted 4 starters at the end of round 3 I think we got 2.

Two?

I disagree. I think Berry, McCluster, Arenas and Asamoah ALL start.

Plus, I think the term "starter" is bogus. There are plenty of NFL players that don't play all four downs that play 70% of the snaps.

Berry & Asamoah are three and four down players. McCluster is likely at least a two down player, if not a three down player for most of the game.

Arenas as a nickle may not play on first down, but he'll likely play on 2nd, 3rd and 4th down in addition to returns.

JASONSAUTO
04-25-2010, 12:43 PM
Well, I know I'm in the minority but I liked this draft very much.

As I said about last year, if Pioli had taken Matthews, Cushing, Oher, Harvin, etc. at #3 overall, people would have bitched but Pioli would have been right.

This year, people are bitching but unlike last year, I think Pioli IS right this year.

You can find NT's and ILB on cut down day that can fill a need. What you can't find are the best young returners in the country, young playmaking slot receivers and young instinctive football players.

They'll probably only win 6-7 games this year. I think 2012 is the year they become a consistent playoff team, IF Pioli's plan works.

thats a great post, and right on par with what you have said over the past year. consistant. he got what people wanted. playmaker, playmaker, playmaker, guard (good one and right around where people wanted one) what is there to bitch about?
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milkman
04-25-2010, 12:46 PM
Two?

I disagree. I think Berry, McCluster, Arenas and Asamoah ALL start.

Plus, I think the term "starter" is bogus. There are plenty of NFL players that don't play all four downs that play 70% of the snaps.

Berry & Asamoah are three and four down players. McCluster is likely at least a two down player, if not a three down player for most of the game.

Arenas as a nickle may not play on first down, but he'll likely play on 2nd, 3rd and 4th down in addition to returns.

Starter may be a bogus term, however, if McCluster doesn't see at least 55% of the snaps on offense, and that's being generous, and Arenas doesn't play the nickel, and only ends up on the field for dime packages, then those are not good picks, any way you try to justify it.

ChiefMojo
04-25-2010, 12:48 PM
I'm just love watching the draftbutors cry in their own tears... just makes this draft even better.

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 12:49 PM
thats a great post, and right on par with what you have said over the past year. consistant. he got what people wanted. playmaker, playmaker, playmaker, guard (good one and right around where people wanted one) what is there to bitch about?
Posted via Mobile Device

I'm excited and happy with all of the picks quiet honestly and I think Asamoah has the ability and opportunity to be a 10 years starter next to Albert. I'm a little disappointed that we weren't able to get a 10 year center this year but I hope that Weigman is more than adequate this season.

Albert/Asamoah/Weigman/Brown/O'C would be an enormous upgrade over last year.

philfree
04-25-2010, 12:49 PM
Two?

I disagree. I think Berry, McCluster, Arenas and Asamoah ALL start.

Plus, I think the term "starter" is bogus. There are plenty of NFL players that don't play all four downs that play 70% of the snaps.

Berry & Asamoah are three and four down players. McCluster is likely at least a two down player, if not a three down player for most of the game.

Arenas as a nickle may not play on first down, but he'll likely play on 2nd, 3rd and 4th down in addition to returns.


I always said that Dane McCloud was a gentleman and a scholar.

PhilFree:arrow:

Baby Lee
04-25-2010, 12:52 PM
Right next to Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell.

Rick Mirer's a better comparison.

philfree
04-25-2010, 12:53 PM
I'm excited and happy with all of the picks quiet honestly and I think Asamoah has the ability and opportunity to be a 10 years starter next to Albert. I'm a little disappointed that we weren't able to get a 10 year center this year but I hope that Weigman is more than adequate this season.

Albert/Asamoah/Weigman/Brown/O'C would be an enormous upgrade over last year.

I was thinking Albert/ Lilja/Weigman/Asamoah/O'C. Although Haley did say Lilja at RT.....:shrug:


PhilFree:arrow:

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 12:54 PM
Starter may be a bogus term, however, if McCluster doesn't see at least 55% of the snaps on offense, and that's being generous, and Arenas doesn't play the nickel, and only ends up on the field for dime packages, then those are not good picks, any way you try to justify it.

You're talking in absolutes: If, If, If.

These guys were brought in to play immediately. They're game changers.

The Chiefs NEEDED a real nickel back and a returner. The Chiefs NEEDED a guy like McCluster. I expect Weis to line him up all over the field.

I think the secondary is going to take a HUGE leap this year. I expect improvement from Mays and especially Belcher & Studebaker.

Personally, I'll take dynamic playmakers any day of the week over a NT or ILB. If the Chiefs had taken an ILB and NT, maybe the defense would be improved but the offense would still suck ass, as would the return game.

I'll take a guy that has the ability to take it to the house every time he touches the ball over a NT every single time. Especially when that NT is a questionable fucking fat ass.

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 12:56 PM
I was thinking Albert/ Lilja/Weigman/Asamoah/O'C. Although Haley did say Lilja at RT.....:shrug:


PhilFree:arrow:

Lilja at RT? Interesting. I guess I missed that statement. Last I read was that Lilja didn't know where he was lining up.

But either way, our line has completely changed with the selection of Asamoah.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 12:57 PM
He has great sources for his final mock.

Does he use these sources to write his grades?

I believe he has good enough sources that he's extremely well qualified to talk about whether a pick was a reach or not. And if McCluster was a reach, he would have called the Chiefs out on it and they wouldn't have gotten an A+.

Just my thought. A lot of people have implied that McCluster was a reach or isn't worth a high second rounder. And my sense from Gosselin's grade is that he has sources that believe he was picked at just the right spot.

And if you pick a guy at the right spot to play a position you currently don't have, then that's pretty much taking a need-based BPA. And there's nothing wrong with that.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 12:58 PM
A week ago, a statement like that gets you labeled a "True Fan".

100% QFT.

I thought a few weeks ago people were jumping up and down about drafting playmakers. I don't know when we turned into drafting for need.

tk13
04-25-2010, 12:59 PM
Yeah, the good news is for the first time in a few years, we at least appear to have some options with the offensive line. And if one guy falls through we might have something to back up.

But our offense was pathetic, hopefully the depth chart looks better:

QB: Cassel
RB: Charles/Jones
WR: Bowe
WR: Chambers
WR: McCluster
TE: Moeaki

philfree
04-25-2010, 01:00 PM
You're talking in absolutes: If, If, If.

These guys were brought in to play immediately. They're game changers.

The Chiefs NEEDED a real nickel back and a returner. The Chiefs NEEDED a guy like McCluster. I expect Weis to line him up all over the field.

I think the secondary is going to take a HUGE leap this year. I expect improvement from Mays and especially Belcher & Studebaker.

Personally, I'll take dynamic playmakers any day of the week over a NT or ILB. If the Chiefs had taken an ILB and NT, maybe the defense would be improved but the offense would still suck ass, as would the return game.

I'll take a guy that has the ability to take it to the house every time he touches the ball over a NT every single time. Especially when that NT is a questionable ****ing fat ass.

I agree. Also the Chiefs have been trying to fix the D by drafting for positional need for how many years now? It hasn't worked. Why would we want to continue down that path?


PhilFree:arrow:

TheGuardian
04-25-2010, 01:00 PM
Well, I know I'm in the minority but I liked this draft very much.

As I said about last year, if Pioli had taken Matthews, Cushing, Oher, Harvin, etc. at #3 overall, people would have bitched but Pioli would have been right.

This year, people are bitching but unlike last year, I think Pioli IS right this year.

You can find NT's and ILB on cut down day that can fill a need. What you can't find are the best young returners in the country, young playmaking slot receivers and young instinctive football players.

They'll probably only win 6-7 games this year. I think 2012 is the year they become a consistent playoff team, IF Pioli's plan works.

That's a good take Dane. I am kind of a C+/B- on this draft but as we both know, shit changes once guys get on the field.

I do think that the return game HAD to be addressed as bad as anything. Last year I dreaded the kick and punts to us because it was like drinking diarrhea. That horrible.

so if McCluster turns into a playmaker and Arenas is Dante Hall 2 people won't say shit.

I'm also getting used to the idea that Pioli knows this will take a little bit of time and isn't trying to fix everything at once. Yeah it means we don't have good nose tackle or inside linebacker play this year, but we've been so awful from top to bottom I guess you gotta start somewhere.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-25-2010, 01:03 PM
Tebow was the steal of the draft IMO. I don't know what happens with our tackles, we got two blue chip tackles though with Clady and Harris so no matter what Denver is fine.

Wow, your tune changed as soon as you drafted Tebow. Before, it was, they are just doing their due diligence, they won't take him.... now, he is the steal of the draft.

Love it. keep it up. We can always use more objectivity in here.

Coogs
04-25-2010, 01:04 PM
Well, I know I'm in the minority but I liked this draft very much.

As I said about last year, if Pioli had taken Matthews, Cushing, Oher, Harvin, etc. at #3 overall, people would have bitched but Pioli would have been right.

This year, people are bitching but unlike last year, I think Pioli IS right this year.

You can find NT's and ILB on cut down day that can fill a need. What you can't find are the best young returners in the country, young playmaking slot receivers and young instinctive football players.

They'll probably only win 6-7 games this year. I think 2012 is the year they become a consistent playoff team, IF Pioli's plan works.

I'm in. I love the draft. It is clear they gave Cassel all the tools he needs to be successful. Now it is on him to make this thing go. All the needs could not be filled in this draft. But some important ones were.

There will be more free agency, and another draft next year to take care of other needs.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-25-2010, 01:04 PM
Well, I know I'm in the minority but I liked this draft very much.

As I said about last year, if Pioli had taken Matthews, Cushing, Oher, Harvin, etc. at #3 overall, people would have bitched but Pioli would have been right.

This year, people are bitching but unlike last year, I think Pioli IS right this year.

You can find NT's and ILB on cut down day that can fill a need. What you can't find are the best young returners in the country, young playmaking slot receivers and young instinctive football players.

They'll probably only win 6-7 games this year. I think 2012 is the year they become a consistent playoff team, IF Pioli's plan works.

Hey, I just want to let you know that I agree with you....so you may want to rethink your position.

milkman
04-25-2010, 01:07 PM
That's a good take Dane. I am kind of a C+/B- on this draft but as we both know, shit changes once guys get on the field.

I do think that the return game HAD to be addressed as bad as anything. Last year I dreaded the kick and punts to us because it was like drinking diarrhea. That horrible.

so if McCluster turns into a playmaker and Arenas is Dante Hall 2 people won't say shit.

I'm also getting used to the idea that Pioli knows this will take a little bit of time and isn't trying to fix everything at once. Yeah it means we don't have good nose tackle or inside linebacker play this year, but we've been so awful from top to bottom I guess you gotta start somewhere.

If McCluster turns into a playmaker that sees the field more than 50% of the snaps, I'll say something.

I'll admit that I was wrong about the value he brings.

The same for Arenas.

On the positive side of things, I absolutely love the selection of Berry and Asamoah.

Deberg_1990
04-25-2010, 01:07 PM
But our offense was pathetic, hopefully the depth chart looks better:

QB: Cassel
RB: Charles/Jones
WR: Bowe
WR: Chambers
WR: McCluster
TE: Moeaki

Id still like to see them sign T.O for a year or two...i think he could help.....but not sure he would take a backup WR role?

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 01:10 PM
Id still like to see them sign T.O for a year or two...i think he could help.....but not sure he would take a backup WR role?

There is NO WAY that Pioli, after stressing character in the draft by selecting team captains and leaders, is going to bring a guy with the "me, me, me" attitude of Terrel Owens.

Forget it.

milkman
04-25-2010, 01:10 PM
I believe he has good enough sources that he's extremely well qualified to talk about whether a pick was a reach or not. And if McCluster was a reach, he would have called the Chiefs out on it and they wouldn't have gotten an A+.

Just my thought. A lot of people have implied that McCluster was a reach or isn't worth a high second rounder. And my sense from Gosselin's grade is that he has sources that believe he was picked at just the right spot.

And if you pick a guy at the right spot to play a position you currently don't have, then that's pretty much taking a need-based BPA. And there's nothing wrong with that.

I don't question McCluster's place in this draft in terms of how high he was taken.

I question the wisdom of taking player that I see as a part time player by the Chiefs.

But I'm done with this.

I'll wait to see how things play out and hope that these guys prove to be the answeres that you and others think they are.

Frankie
04-25-2010, 01:15 PM
WTF?!! LMAO

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 01:16 PM
I don't question McCluster's place in this draft in terms of how high he was taken.

I question the wisdom of taking player that I see as a part time player by the Chiefs.

But I'm done with this.

I'll wait to see how things play out and hope that these guys prove to be the answeres that you and others think they are.

Fair enough. A lot of this is extremely dependent on these guys being very good at what they do. Arenas has to be very good at nickel and outstanding as a returner to match the value of, say, missing out on Cody. And McCluster needs to be an electric playmaker, regardless of his snaps, to justify passing on someone like Kindle. That's something I get and I was horribly wrong on Tyson Jackson and Matt Cassel, so I recognize that there is a far greater expectation for these guys.

So I'm with you on the "wait and see" part. I like the picks only if they live up to certain standards.

Coogs
04-25-2010, 01:19 PM
I don't question McCluster's place in this draft in terms of how high he was taken.

I question the wisdom of taking player that I see as a part time player by the Chiefs.

But I'm done with this.

I'll wait to see how things play out and hope that these guys prove to be the answeres that you and others think they are.

Welker is the slot receiver for the Patriots, correct? And isn't he on the field damn near every single offensive play?

And for the Cards, didn't they have 3 receivers on the field nearly every single play?

I could be wrong, but 3 receiver sets seem to be the favorite offense of both of those teams.

Just Passin' By
04-25-2010, 01:20 PM
I don't give a rat's ass about Jimmy Clasen.

Never once have I said that he's a guy that I wanted.

I have always said that I wasn't sold on him.

This isn't about any specific player.

This is about full time players vs. part time players.

Interesting.

Full-time players in the Weiss offense:

O-line
QB
WR1
WR3
TE1

The team has a WR1 and WR2, drafted a TE, added multiple pieces to its O-line during the offseason and draft, and seems to have a different take on the QB position than the complainers here. You don't like Clausen, so it should be safe to say that not taking a QB was not a problem, right?

That means the team did what you wanted on offense. If he pans out, McCluster probably will be used in some hybrid of the Welker/Branch days in New England

As for defense, it's going to depend on Crennel's approach. Just as a reference, NE has been taking the NT off the field on passing downs, plays a lot of nickel and dime, and pulls run stuffer type ILBs off the field on passing plays.

If Crennel is going to look in that direction, the draft would seem to have set up for that, although I certainly understand the concerns about NT and OLB. It may just have been a matter of filling some holes knowing others are still huge problems.

New England's been dealing with the OLB problem for a couple of years now, for example. The draft hasn't been a solution so far due to injury (they don't even know if the guys can play because neither OLB drafted in the past two years has gotten an injury-free season to develop), and I'm sure the Patriots would be happy to send you Adalius Thomas. ;)

Deberg_1990
04-25-2010, 01:20 PM
There is NO WAY that Pioli, after stressing character in the draft by selecting team captains and leaders, is going to bring a guy with the "me, me, me" attitude of Terrel Owens.

Forget it.

heh...yea, i just realized that. :)

LaChapelle
04-25-2010, 01:24 PM
WTF?!! LMAO

Do we get Lewis and Sheffield them the first half the year or does the Fins :shrug:

milkman
04-25-2010, 01:24 PM
Interesting.

Full-time players in the Weiss offense:

O-line
QB
WR1
WR3
TE1

The team has a WR1 and WR2, drafted a TE, added multiple pieces to its O-line during the offseason and draft, and seems to have a different take on the QB position than the complainers here. You don't like Clausen, so it should be safe to say that not taking a QB was not a problem, right?

That means the team did what you wanted on offense. If he pans out, McCluster probably will be used in some hybrid of the Welker/Branch days in New England

As for defense, it's going to depend on Crennel's approach. Just as a reference, NE has been taking the NT off the field on passing downs, plays a lot of nickel and dime, and pulls run stuffer type ILBs off the field on passing plays.

If Crennel is going to look in that direction, the draft would seem to have set up for that, although I certainly understand the concerns about NT and OLB. It may just have been a matter of filling some holes knowing others are still huge problems.

New England's been dealing with the OLB problem for a couple of years now, for example. The draft hasn't been a solution so far due to injury (they don't even know if the guys can play because neither OLB drafted in the past two years has gotten an injury-free season to develop), and I'm sure the Patriots would be happy to send you Adalius Thomas. ;)

Yeah, I have no problem wahtsoever with passing on Clausen.

But, in a way, I guess I'm still old school and still love my defense and wanted to see that fixed, and other Berry, I don't see it.

We've had such a crappy defense for so long, it makes me cranky.

Mosbonian
04-25-2010, 01:24 PM
Fair enough. A lot of this is extremely dependent on these guys being very good at what they do. Arenas has to be very good at nickel and outstanding as a returner to match the value of, say, missing out on Cody. And McCluster needs to be an electric playmaker, regardless of his snaps, to justify passing on someone like Kindle. That's something I get and I was horribly wrong on Tyson Jackson and Matt Cassel, so I recognize that there is a far greater expectation for these guys.

So I'm with you on the "wait and see" part. I like the picks only if they live up to certain standards.

But Cody and Kindle come with just as much baggage as what you infer in McCluster and Arenas, with less upside. Cody is questioned because of his work ethic and weight issues, and Kindle's injury makes his susceptible to further deterioration because it was a leg injury.

mmaddog
********

Mosbonian
04-25-2010, 01:25 PM
.....it makes me cranky.

This part we are all used to.... :p

mmaddog
********

milkman
04-25-2010, 01:26 PM
Oh, and I just don't think that Crennel is the miracle worker that some seem to think he is.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 01:29 PM
But Cody and Kindle come with just as much baggage as what you infer in McCluster and Arenas, with less upside. Cody is questioned because of his work ethic and weight issues, and Kindle's injury makes his susceptible to further deterioration because it was a leg injury.

mmaddog
********

Trust me. Been harping on this all day. But milkman has a point that when you're talking about a nickel back/returner or a RB/slot WR passing up on a 3-4 OLB/NT, the bar needs to be a little higher. If they're both adequate at best at what they do, it was a very wrong pick. They need to be very, very good at their positions, because they carry much lower positional value. Same applies in spades for Berry.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 01:30 PM
Oh, and I just don't think that Crennel is the miracle worker that some seem to think he is.

I think he runs a bit of a dated defense. All the more reason to hitch the wagon on Weis instead.

I think Romeo, with time, can build this defense into a competitive one. But I don't think it will be anywhere near as dominant as it was during the Pats' dynasty.

One thing I do know is that I think he'll get a lot more mileage out of young D-linemen. He's a terrific D-line coach, at the very least.

Coogs
04-25-2010, 01:30 PM
Yeah, I have no problem wahtsoever with passing on Clausen.

But, in a way, I guess I'm still old school and still love my defense and wanted to see that fixed, and other Berry, I don't see it.

We've had such a crappy defense for so long, it makes me cranky.

I understand. However, the secondary really needed an overhaul, just a bad as the front 7. If we have a secondary now of that is the caliber of some of our all time great secondarys then this is a great starting point. Lets see what these young guys we brought in the last couple of seasons develop into up front. maybe we have more there than we know. Maybe Jackson, Mcgee, Dorsey, Studabaker and the likes really start to blossem into the players they drafted/picked them up to be this year.

Just Passin' By
04-25-2010, 01:34 PM
Yeah, I have no problem wahtsoever with passing on Clausen.

But, in a way, I guess I'm still old school and still love my defense and wanted to see that fixed, and other Berry, I don't see it.

We've had such a crappy defense for so long, it makes me cranky.

I see your points on all of this. A bad defense puts a lot of pressure on even a great offense. The Chiefs are in dire need of LBs and an NT. I thought they'd target an NT in round 2, myself. I, personally, would give them a pass because the team has so many holes to fill from years of decay, but I can certainly understand where a "defense!" guy would be getting impatient.

The only thing I can tell you is that I think there might well be some pretty good players getting the axe this offseason, as teams take advantage of the uncapped year to bring payroll down. Lord knows that I'm hoping someone springs loose that can play DE for New England. The dynamic duo of Damione Lewis and Gerard Warren just doesn't inspire confidence in me.

The Bad Guy
04-25-2010, 01:37 PM
Anyone who calls Tebow the steal of the draft doesn't deserve to watch the NFL. How can you be a steal when you get drafted about a round and a half before you are supposed to go?

You can't teach someone accuracy.

Does Knowshit offer anything on this board? He's KCJohnny without the obnoxious religious and military messages. I've finally put his loser ass on ignore.

tk13
04-25-2010, 01:38 PM
Oh, and I just don't think that Crennel is the miracle worker that some seem to think he is.

I don't either. But I hope he's better than Pendergast... and miles better than Krumrie. But we'll see.

Coogs
04-25-2010, 02:01 PM
To be fair, you only love the Chiefs' draft because you're a member of the Oakland Raiders now.

Huh?

Reaper16
04-25-2010, 02:02 PM
Huh?
Fuck. In my sleep-deprived haze I thought that Groves posted that. I'm deleting my post out of shame.

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 02:04 PM
To be fair, you only love the Chiefs' draft because you're a member of the Oakland Raiders now.

This is ridiculous.

SI and Rick Gosselin think the Chiefs drafts were A+ (Better than Seattle) but I read from a few snarky know-it-alls that because they passed on a fucking fatass, lazy NT or didn't draft an ILB or broke OLB in the second, Pioli's a moron and the Chiefs are doomed to suck.

Meanwhile, if they HAD taken any of those guys, they all come with significant risks. There is no more risk than usual in an NFL draft by taking a playmaker in McCluster who can virtually play at any skill position on offense or the most dynamic returner (and a damn good CB).

The level of faux outrage displayed by some is completely fucking laughable AND predictable.

Baby Lee
04-25-2010, 02:05 PM
If McCluster turns into a playmaker that sees the field more than 50% of the snaps, I'll say something.

I'll admit that I was wrong about the value he brings.

The same for Arenas.

On the positive side of things, I absolutely love the selection of Berry and Asamoah.

What with the biggest problem with the D, aside from not showing up at all on occasion, like when Dorsey is out for a game, being;

1st & 10
2nd & 9
3rd and 8 1/2

BOOM! 20 yard play.

I'd think as nickel/dime corner would merit a different calculus.

Like, if he's on the field a significant amount of 3rd downs and well really improve on 3 and out.

Reaper16
04-25-2010, 02:05 PM
This is ridiculous.

SI and Rick Gosselin think the Chiefs drafts were A+ (Better than Seattle) but I read from a few snarky know-it-alls that because they passed on a fucking fatass, lazy NT or didn't draft an ILB or broke OLB in the second, Pioli's a moron and the Chiefs are doomed to suck.

Meanwhile, if they HAD taken any of those guys, they all come with significant risks. There is no more risk than usual in an NFL draft by taking a playmaker in McCluster who can virtually play at any skill position on offense or the most dynamic returner (and a damn good CB).

The level of faux outrage displayed by some is completely fucking laughable AND predictable.
I have no idea what you're talking about. Mostly because I have no idea what I'm talking about -- the post you quoted was a botched joke because I misread someone's username.

dirk digler
04-25-2010, 02:06 PM
This is ridiculous.

SI and Rick Gosselin think the Chiefs drafts were A+ (Better than Seattle) but I read from a few snarky know-it-alls that because they passed on a fucking fatass, lazy NT or didn't draft an ILB or broke OLB in the second, Pioli's a moron and the Chiefs are doomed to suck.

Meanwhile, if they HAD taken any of those guys, they all come with significant risks. There is no more risk than usual in an NFL draft by taking a playmaker in McCluster who can virtually play at any skill position on offense or the most dynamic returner (and a damn good CB).

The level of faux outrage displayed by some is completely fucking laughable AND predictable.

Who hacked into Dane's account?

notorious
04-25-2010, 02:08 PM
This is ridiculous.

SI and Rick Gosselin think the Chiefs drafts were A+ (Better than Seattle) but I read from a few snarky know-it-alls that because they passed on a ****ing fatass, lazy NT or didn't draft an ILB or broke OLB in the second, Pioli's a moron and the Chiefs are doomed to suck.

Meanwhile, if they HAD taken any of those guys, they all come with significant risks. There is no more risk than usual in an NFL draft by taking a playmaker in McCluster who can virtually play at any skill position on offense or the most dynamic returner (and a damn good CB).

The level of faux outrage displayed by some is completely ****ing laughable AND predictable.



Yes.

I am tired of the glass half-empty mentality. It's time to look at what we did get out of the draft:



A mean and nasty bastard for the OLine

Possibly the best safety in the NFL for the next 10 years

Two fantastic playmakers that can change a game on ONE play

A TE, if he can stay healthy, will be in the top 10 TE's in the NFL.

Coogs
04-25-2010, 02:16 PM
Fuck. In my sleep-deprived haze I thought that Groves posted that. I'm deleting my post out of shame.

:thumb:

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 02:23 PM
I have no idea what you're talking about. Mostly because I have no idea what I'm talking about -- the post you quoted was a botched joke because I misread someone's username.

What I'm talking about are some of the members here screaming and whining and bitching that THEIR players weren't chosen.

FTR, I happen to like most of those guys quite a bit and communicate with them outside of the forum. I have great respect for them as human beings and our friendships.

I just happen to think they're wrong.

Passing up a franchise QB for a fucking 5 tech is criminal. Drafting for a one year wonder was flat out dumb. Taking another 5 tech and a junior CB with issues was asinine. I've complained about all of those moves for the past year and I haven't changed my opinion.

But in taking the best safety prospect in a decade, two dynamic players, a fucking stud guard and a TE with a gigantic upside, I have absolutely NO complaints. I like the 5th round selections as well.

I think this 40 time bullshit is overrated as well. Scouts look at two things: How fast a guy plays (projected 40 time) and his 40 time. If his projected time is faster than his actual time, that means he's an instinctual player on defense. There have been plenty of "fast" draft choices (Gholston, DJ, etc.) that can't play at the next level consistently (or at all) because they aren't instinctive football players.

The bottom line is that the Chiefs DID address needs in the 2010 draft but obviously not the "needs" that some felt were necessary this year.

notorious
04-25-2010, 02:24 PM
I have no idea what you're talking about. Mostly because I have no idea what I'm talking about

LMAO

Rep for honesty.

patteeu
04-25-2010, 02:26 PM
We aren't talking about taking O-Lineman here.

We are talking foundational player that could come in and start and have playmaking ability.

We are talking about full time playmaker v. part time play maker.

Yeah, I understand what you're talking about and I understand that there's a difference in how the word "foundational" is being used. I just thought it was funny how it sounded so much like the arguments that the OL fans get blasted for.

I don't agree with your full time versus part time distinction though. At least not in the context of these picks against some of the guys that the "playmaker" advocates (maybe not you) were calling for (e.g. Spiller, Tate, Haden, Gilyard, etc.)

Reaper16
04-25-2010, 02:32 PM
What I'm talking about are some of the members here screaming and whining and bitching that THEIR players weren't chosen.

FTR, I happen to like most of those guys quite a bit and communicate with them outside of the forum. I have great respect for them as human beings and our friendships.

I just happen to think they're wrong.

Passing up a franchise QB for a fucking 5 tech is criminal. Drafting for a one year wonder was flat out dumb. Taking another 5 tech and a junior CB with issues was asinine. I've complained about all of those moves for the past year and I haven't changed my opinion.

But in taking the best safety prospect in a decade, two dynamic players, a fucking stud guard and a TE with a gigantic upside, I have absolutely NO complaints. I like the 5th round selections as well.

I think this 40 time bullshit is overrated as well. Scouts look at two things: How fast a guy plays (projected 40 time) and his 40 time. If his projected time is faster than his actual time, that means he's an instinctual player on defense. There have been plenty of "fast" draft choices (Gholston, DJ, etc.) that can't play at the next level consistently (or at all) because they aren't instinctive football players.

The bottom line is that the Chiefs DID address needs in the 2010 draft but obviously not the "needs" that some felt were necessary this year.

And that is why I haven't been yelling at you or calling you names since yesterday -- we may have some disagreements regarding this draft but your positions are well-argued and sensible. I was disappointed though when you called me out for faux outrage, implying that I would have bitched no matter what happened in the draft.

bowener
04-25-2010, 02:33 PM
Tebow was the steal of the draft IMO. I don't know what happens with our tackles, we got two blue chip tackles though with Clady and Harris so no matter what Denver is fine.

I don't think a player can be a "steal" if they are drafted in the 1st round, and the team that drafted them traded up to draft them 2 rounds before the player was expected to go. The best you can hope for is that he at least justifies his draft position. He will never be known as a steal.

patteeu
04-25-2010, 02:43 PM
Yeah, I have no problem wahtsoever with passing on Clausen.

But, in a way, I guess I'm still old school and still love my defense and wanted to see that fixed, and other Berry, I don't see it.

We've had such a crappy defense for so long, it makes me cranky.

I hear that. I was looking forward to a defense heavy draft with some combination of a superstar safety, a pass rushing OLB, and either a ILB or a big NT or both to handle the middle because I miss the days of strong defense in KC. It looks like the Chiefs decided to take a different approach. Even though it's different though, it seems rational to me so I'm cautiously optimistic that their plan will pay off.

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 02:51 PM
And that is why I haven't been yelling at you or calling you names since yesterday -- we may have some disagreements regarding this draft but your positions are well-argued and sensible. I was disappointed though when you called me out for faux outrage, implying that I would have bitched no matter what happened in the draft.

I apologize. It wasn't my intent to single you out though upon re-reading, I completely understand how you read it as such.

Again, my apologies.

tk13
04-25-2010, 02:52 PM
That is definitely one thing you can take out of this draft... that our scouting department does not give a flying leap about 40 times, that's for sure.

Woodrow Call
04-25-2010, 02:54 PM
What I'm talking about are some of the members here screaming and whining and bitching that THEIR players weren't chosen.

FTR, I happen to like most of those guys quite a bit and communicate with them outside of the forum. I have great respect for them as human beings and our friendships.

I just happen to think they're wrong.

Passing up a franchise QB for a fucking 5 tech is criminal. Drafting for a one year wonder was flat out dumb. Taking another 5 tech and a junior CB with issues was asinine. I've complained about all of those moves for the past year and I haven't changed my opinion.

But in taking the best safety prospect in a decade, two dynamic players, a fucking stud guard and a TE with a gigantic upside, I have absolutely NO complaints. I like the 5th round selections as well.

I think this 40 time bullshit is overrated as well. Scouts look at two things: How fast a guy plays (projected 40 time) and his 40 time. If his projected time is faster than his actual time, that means he's an instinctual player on defense. There have been plenty of "fast" draft choices (Gholston, DJ, etc.) that can't play at the next level consistently (or at all) because they aren't instinctive football players.

The bottom line is that the Chiefs DID address needs in the 2010 draft but obviously not the "needs" that some felt were necessary this year.

Well said Dane. I will never forgive Pioli for the 09 draft class, throw Sanchez and Maualaga in here and we are on the verge of challenging. But I have no idea how anyone can look at what we have added this weekend and give it a D grade. They filled needs across the board with quality prospects(4 of Gosselin's top 75). It's right up there with the 08 class as far as I'm concerned.
Posted via Mobile Device

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 02:57 PM
Dane I disagree with you the Arenas pick was fucking horrible. For fucks sake they could have traded back and drafted Arenas. And Pioli has traded how many picks to draft tight ends?

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 02:59 PM
Well, I know I'm in the minority but I liked this draft very much.

As I said about last year, if Pioli had taken Matthews, Cushing, Oher, Harvin, etc. at #3 overall, people would have bitched but Pioli would have been right.

This year, people are bitching but unlike last year, I think Pioli IS right this year.

You can find NT's and ILB on cut down day that can fill a need. What you can't find are the best young returners in the country, young playmaking slot receivers and young instinctive football players.

They'll probably only win 6-7 games this year. I think 2012 is the year they become a consistent playoff team, IF Pioli's plan works.

That is demonstrably false.

The Pro Bowl is littered with UDFA kick returners. Clifton Smith, Michael Lewis, Josh Cribbs, to name a few.

Not to mention elite KR's like LaRod Stephens-Howling, Stefan Logan, or even SEMO's own Willie Ponder.

Wasting a 2nd round draft pick on a kick returner is completely foolish.

What you can't find are elite nose tackles off the street.

Casey Hampton, Vince Wilfork, Jamal Williams, Shaun Rogers, and Kris Jenkins were all very high draft picks.

It's a complete inversion of value.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:00 PM
And Dane, the only TE in this draft with gigantic upside was Jimmy Graham, not Tony Moeaki.

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 03:01 PM
And why the fuck didn't we draft Freddie Barnes?

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:02 PM
Did the Bengals move Munoz to right tackle because Esiason was a lefty?

Regardless of whether or not the QB is left handed or righthanded, you still need an elite left tackle to match up against an elite RDE.

The Saints did it with Roaf when Aaron Brooks played QB for them.

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 03:03 PM
Dane I disagree with you the Arenas pick was fucking horrible. For fucks sake they could have traded back and drafted Arenas. And Pioli has traded how many picks to draft tight ends?

I don't subscribe to the "Trade back" and get your guy theory.

If he's YOUR GUY, get him. If YOU think you're right about a player, get him while you can. Don't take a chance.

As for tight ends, it's hard NOT to like this guy. He's had some bad luck but nothing serious (i.e. ACL's, MCL's, etc.). I think they want a Mark Bavaro/Dallas Clark type of guy on offense and no one on the roster fits that bill.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:05 PM
And why the fuck didn't we draft Freddie Barnes?

Look, I would have loved if we would have drafted Freddie Barnes, but I'm not going to flip my shit over it.

It would have been nice if Pioli would have put in a call rather than holding a PC during the time in which GMs are most active trying to bring in UDFAs, but the odds of getting him at that point were very low.

What I'm much more upset about is that virtually everyone on this forum agreed with the Berry pick, and then because of that, completely turned off their brains and rationalized every other pick because of the Berry pick.

The disappointment doesn't come from "a" guy not being picked, it's that with every post-Berry pick save for Asamoah, you could list 10-15 guys who we should have taken instead of the guys we did.

And if anyone wants me to list them, I will.

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 03:06 PM
The Saints did it with Roaf when Aaron Brooks played QB for them.

Well then, I guess McDaniels do that, but I'd be surprised.

I know everyone here is laughing at McDaniels but at least he's rebuilding the team exactly as he sees fit. Hopefully, it doesn't work but I give him credit for putting his ass on the line.

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 03:07 PM
And Dane, the only TE in this draft with gigantic upside was Jimmy Graham, not Tony Moeaki.

You think there is no chance for Moeaki to be a productive, successful TE, injuries aside?

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 03:08 PM
Look, I would have loved if we would have drafted Freddie Barnes, but I'm not going to flip my shit over it.

It would have been nice if Pioli would have put in a call rather than holding a PC during the time in which GMs are most active trying to bring in UDFAs, but the odds of getting him at that point were very low.

What I'm much more upset about is that virtually everyone on this forum agreed with the Berry pick, and then because of that, completely turned off their brains and rationalized every other pick because of the Berry pick.

The disappointment doesn't come from "a" guy not being picked, it's that with every post-Berry pick save for Asamoah, you could list 10-15 guys who we should have taken instead of the guys we did.

And if anyone wants me to list them, I will.

I don't care we didn't draft him I meant why didn't we sign him as a UFDA instead of Menelik fucking Holt? Who is the regional scout because he fucking sucks. We could have also signed Matt O'Hanlon who will be better than that turd safety they drafted.

I didn't turn anything off though Hamas. At first I was pissed about McCluster but if you really think about it he'll be a good player. As for Arenas that was a horrible fucking pick. He's undersized and slow. You can draft a good kick returner in the later rounds.

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 03:10 PM
I don't subscribe to the "Trade back" and get your guy theory.

If he's YOUR GUY, get him. If YOU think you're right about a player, get him while you can. Don't take a chance.

As for tight ends, it's hard NOT to like this guy. He's had some bad luck but nothing serious (i.e. ACL's, MCL's, etc.). I think they want a Mark Bavaro/Dallas Clark type of guy on offense and no one on the roster fits that bill.

Yea but there guy sucks.


As for the tight end it looks like the guy can't even stay on his feet injuries aside. I'm tired of drafting all these fragile guys. If a guy doesn't stay healthy in college he won't stay healthy in the NFL.

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 03:13 PM
Look, I would have loved if we would have drafted Freddie Barnes, but I'm not going to flip my shit over it.

It would have been nice if Pioli would have put in a call rather than holding a PC during the time in which GMs are most active trying to bring in UDFAs, but the odds of getting him at that point were very low.

What I'm much more upset about is that virtually everyone on this forum agreed with the Berry pick, and then because of that, completely turned off their brains and rationalized every other pick because of the Berry pick.

The disappointment doesn't come from "a" guy not being picked, it's that with every post-Berry pick save for Asamoah, you could list 10-15 guys who we should have taken instead of the guys we did.

And if anyone wants me to list them, I will.

Well, I really liked round two and don't feel like I've turned my brain off.

I just happen to believe there are different ways of building a football team.

If Pioli had chosen an ILB and NT, I'd have supported those decisions. Instead, he chose a couple of very dynamic playmakers. Now, you can say he should have waited, got better value, blah, blah, blah. The reality of that opinion is that it can't be proven at this point in time.

If Belcher, Mays, Smith, etc. all improve their play this year while Arenas and McCluster provide game winning plays or consistent playmaking from this positions, it'll prove to be an excellent decision.

If McCluster and Arenas perform as expected but the middle of the defense is still soft, it'll need to be addressed in 2011, just as Pioli planned.

If the defense doesn't improve and McCluster and Arenas both totally suck ass, then we can complain that Pioli fucked up.

But I'm not going to complain now because the biggest thing lacking from this team last year were playmakers. And it appears that Pioli drafted a few. I have difficulty faulting him at this point in time.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:14 PM
And for the record, this is the second year in a row that this is happened, so everyone should plainly expect it in 2011 too.

The team drafts, and 90% of the fans fall over backwards fellating the front office.

Why? Because you can't see the results on the field. All the propaganda that the FO puts out about "The Right 53", the process, etc can't yet be rebutted because the players haven't shown their inability on the field.

Then, the games roll around (and not the PS fluff fests). The team gets it shit pushed in, and the same people who spent all that time fellating the FO now remain silent because they see the failure on the field. But they take all the criticism of the FO personally and they're pissed that they were wrong. Next draft rolls around, and so does the next propaganda campaign.

And what do you have? Hootie going from "disgusted" to comparing McCluster to Desean Jackson, Percy Harvin, and Wes Welker in five minutes. Javier Arenas turns into Devin Hester. McCluster (and look in the draft thread) changes from "McClusterfuck" to a dynamic playmaker over the course of four hours.


It's just like what Hermann Goering said about getting the common man to buy into war.

Of course you don't want to have a shitty football team. No one does. And you don't want to have a shitty draft. But it seems quite easy, after the initial reaction, to rationalize and therefore hope that the team you rooted for made the right decisions. Not because they are the right decisions, but because the thought of confronting the incompetence of the front office and realizing that this team will never win anything as long as Scott Pioli is GM is too difficult to comprehend.

Most people are still on first "D" of DABDA.

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 03:15 PM
Whats wrong with drafting a playmaer Hamas?

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 03:15 PM
Yea but there guy sucks.


As for the tight end it looks like the guy can't even stay on his feet injuries aside. I'm tired of drafting all these fragile guys. If a guy doesn't stay healthy in college he won't stay healthy in the NFL.

Broken feet and ankles don't mean that someone's fragile. It's just bad luck.

As for your proclamation that McCluster & Arenas "suck", I think you and a few other Chiefsplanet members are in an extremely small minority in that thought.

Both of those guys were fucking playmakers, big time.

Gruden compares Arenas to Ronde Barber and I'll take that any day of the week.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:15 PM
I don't care we didn't draft him I meant why didn't we sign him as a UFDA instead of Menelik fucking Holt? Who is the regional scout because he fucking sucks. We could have also signed Matt O'Hanlon who will be better than that turd safety they drafted.

I didn't turn anything off though Hamas. At first I was pissed about McCluster but if you really think about it he'll be a good player. As for Arenas that was a horrible fucking pick. He's undersized and slow. You can draft a good kick returner in the later rounds.

I wasn't talking about you, specifically, billay. You're one of the few who has remained relatively true to your convictions.

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 03:16 PM
Broken feet and ankles don't mean that someone's fragile. It's just bad luck.

As for your proclamation that McCluster & Arenas "suck", I think you and a few other Chiefsplanet members are in an extremely small minority in that thought.

Both of those guys were ****ing playmakers, big time.

Wait a minute I didn't say McCluster sucked I like Mccluster. Arenas fucking sucks.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:17 PM
You think there is no chance for Moeaki to be a productive, successful TE, injuries aside?

There's never no chance, but he carries a huge risk with far less potential upside than someone like Graham.

Even more laughingly, he's smaller and slower than Brad Cottam as well. Of course, I fully expect that Cottam will be cut because he's not one of the Brahman, so a direct comparison will be difficult.

I'll ask you this much:

Was trading up to get Tony Moeaki worth Cam Thomas?

A week ago, did you know who Tony Moeaki was, and did you have him in the same galaxy of his ability to help this team as a Cam Thomas?

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 03:18 PM
Wait a minute I didn't say McCluster sucked I like Mccluster. Arenas fucking sucks.

See above. Arenas is going to be a stud nickel back and should be a phenomenal returner.

He's a game changer and that's exactly what this team needs.

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 03:20 PM
See above. Arenas is going to be a stud nickel back and should be a phenomenal returner.

He's a game changer and that's exactly what this team needs.

I promise you he'll suck at nickelback. One this team has no pass rush. Two. He's not quick at all watch the BCS Title game he was owned by Shipley.

As a returner? Watch the Senoir Bowl game he doesn't have break away speed. He's shifty but not fast.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:20 PM
Whats wrong with drafting a playmaer Hamas?

Who is worth more:

An outside linebacker in a 3-4 who can harass the QB
A 0 technique who can command consistent double teams
A potential franchise QB
A slot receiver with size and speed
A legit #2 receiver


or Dave Meggett

I think McCluster's absolute upside is Dave Meggett.

He'll be a good player, but he's not worth more than the above.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:21 PM
Arenas was absolutely dismantled by Jordan Shipley.

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 03:24 PM
Who is worth more:

An outside linebacker in a 3-4 who can harass the QB
A 0 technique who can command consistent double teams
A potential franchise QB
A slot receiver with size and speed
A legit #2 receiver


or Dave Meggett

I think McCluster's absolute upside is Dave Meggett.

He'll be a good player, but he's not worth more than the above.

Dave Meggett was a bit before my time wasn't he a running back?

Cody was a two down player so at that pick I would say it's a reach.

I wanted to draft a OLB.

The Benn pick would have been ok but #2 WR isn't a need for this team.



This sort of reminds me of last years draft had Pioli drafted Harvin people would be pissed at the time but now would be ok with it.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:24 PM
Another question:

Drafts are a result of player evaluation skills, obviously, but so are UDFA pickups. The teams who have the best drafts also tend to be the best at getting UDFAs. Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, etc.

Now, look at who they have brought it so far in UDFA

Look at who we have brought in

I think that can tell you a lot about the respective franchises' abilities to evaluate talent, and an extension of that can be applied to this draft.

BigMeatballDave
04-25-2010, 03:26 PM
Tebow was the steal of the draft IMO. I don't know what happens with our tackles, we got two blue chip tackles though with Clady and Harris so no matter what Denver is fine.LMAO Ok. Drafting him were you did was one thing. Giving a 2,3 and 4 to get there is OMGWTFBBQLMAO

Just Passin' By
04-25-2010, 03:26 PM
There's never no chance, but he carries a huge risk with far less potential upside than someone like Graham.

Even more laughingly, he's smaller and slower than Brad Cottam as well. Of course, I fully expect that Cottam will be cut because he's not one of the Brahman, so a direct comparison will be difficult.

I'll ask you this much:

Was trading up to get Tony Moeaki worth Cam Thomas?

A week ago, did you know who Tony Moeaki was, and did you have him in the same galaxy of his ability to help this team as a Cam Thomas?

Thomas fell all the way to #146. Clearly, more than one team had some reservations about the guy.

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 03:27 PM
Arenas had six career picks at Alabama ROFL

BigMeatballDave
04-25-2010, 03:28 PM
I think Tebow will be in the HOF when all is said and done.Sure, running the ticket booth, no doubt.

Mosbonian
04-25-2010, 03:28 PM
Hamas:

A legitimate question here:

What's the difference in selecting Tony Moeaki vs. selecting Sergio Kindle, not taking in their point of selection but factoring it more on taking a flyer on an injured player?

mmaddog
********

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:28 PM
Dave Meggett was a bit before my time wasn't he a running back?

Cody was a two down player so at that pick I would say it's a reach.

I wanted to draft a OLB.

The Benn pick would have been ok but #2 WR isn't a need for this team.



This sort of reminds me of last years draft had Pioli drafted Harvin people would be pissed at the time but now would be ok with it.

Benn can be a #1 WR. At 50, I was talking about guys like Golden Tate or Damien Williams, who can be slot and #2 guys, respectively.

If we would have drafted any of those 3 at 36, let alone 50 for Tate or Williams, people would have universally lauded those as excellent value picks.


And Dave Meggett was a KR/PR/WR/RB

He had 530 receiving yards his rookie year and around 120 rushing yards, but was one of the best KR and PR in the league (although I don't see McCluster doing either one of those)

He was 5'7 190 pounds.


I guaranfuckingtee you, that if you look at Pioli's history and absolute fealty to Parcells and the Patriot way, he didn't think of McCluster as Wes Welker, he thought of him as Dave Meggett.

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 03:29 PM
Another question:

Drafts are a result of player evaluation skills, obviously, but so are UDFA pickups. The teams who have the best drafts also tend to be the best at getting UDFAs. Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, etc.

Now, look at who they have brought it so far in UDFA

Look at who we have brought in

I think that can tell you a lot about the respective franchises' abilities to evaluate talent, and an extension of that can be applied to this draft.

Whats it say when you basically repeat the same draft in a row aside from a few guys? The Washington, Brown, McConnell picks look like a total waste.

Mosbonian
04-25-2010, 03:30 PM
Arenas had six career picks at Alabama ROFL

A possible explanation could be that he was good enough that no one threw in his direction? I don't know if that is the right answer...but it's a possible explanation.

mmaddog
********

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 03:31 PM
Benn can be a #1 WR. At 50, I was talking about guys like Golden Tate or Damien Williams, who can be slot and #2 guys, respectively.

If we would have drafted any of those 3 at 36, let alone 50 for Tate or Williams, people would have universally lauded those as excellent value picks.


And Dave Meggett was a KR/PR/WR/RB

He had 530 receiving yards his rookie year and around 120 rushing yards, but was one of the best KR and PR in the league (although I don't see McCluster doing either one of those)

He was 5'7 190 pounds.


I guaran****ingtee you, that if you look at Pioli's history and absolute fealty to Parcells and the Patriot way, he didn't think of McCluster as Wes Welker, he thought of him as Dave Meggett.

Those who compare McCluster to Welker don't watch college football.

DeezNutz
04-25-2010, 03:32 PM
Hamas:

A legitimate question here:

What's the difference in selecting Tony Moeaki vs. selecting Sergio Kindle, not taking in their point of selection but factoring it more on taking a flyer on an injured player?

mmaddog
********

First, there wasn't consensus opinion, it seems, on the severity of Kindle's injury.

Though the selection is higher, you're not giving up picks to select Kindle, and the risk/reward is entirely slanted in his favor. In KC, we've seen what the greatest TE in the game can bring, and we also have a pretty good idea what a high-quality rush backer can bring, too.

Which would you prefer?

Mosbonian
04-25-2010, 03:32 PM
Those who compare McCluster to Welker don't watch college football.

Wow....what a leap..

And what makes you say that?

mmaddog
********

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 03:32 PM
A possible explanation could be that he was good enough that no one threw in his direction? I don't know if that is the right answer...but it's a possible explanation.

mmaddog
********

Shipley beat him up pretty bad. The thing is I don't hear alot about his cover skills everyone mentions his punt returning skills. Thats great for a late round pick not a second round pick.

DeezNutz
04-25-2010, 03:33 PM
Those who compare McCluster to Welker don't watch college football.

It's just because they're white.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:33 PM
Hamas:

A legitimate question here:

What's the difference in selecting Tony Moeaki vs. selecting Sergio Kindle, not taking in their point of selection but factoring it more on taking a flyer on an injured player?

mmaddog
********

Kindle's knee issue WRT microfracture was something that one team felt he needed. He missed some time as a sophomore, but he doesn't have the catalog of injuries that Moeaki does.

Ultimately, if you want to pass on him for those concerns, I can understand, but it's funny that the same team that took Rolle when we didn't because of spinal stenosis concerns (Baltimore) did the same here.

What I can't understand is why you'd pass up not only Kindle, but Linval Joseph, Daryl Washington, Everson Griffen, Terrance Cody, Torrell Troup, Cam Thomas, etc. multiple times.

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 03:34 PM
Wow....what a leap..

And what makes you say that?

mmaddog
********

For one Mccluster played RB. I don't think Welker was a game changer at WR for Texas Tech as much as teams feared him on special teams.

keg in kc
04-25-2010, 03:34 PM
And for the record, this is the second year in a row that this is happened, so everyone should plainly expect it in 2011 too.

The team drafts, and 90% of the fans fall over backwards fellating the front office.That's a load of shit. I don't know what fucking draft you watched in 2009, or what town you were watching it in. Nobody liked last year's draft.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:35 PM
That's a load of shit. I don't know what fucking draft you watched in 2009, or what town you were watching it in. Nobody liked last year's draft.

That's revisionist bullshit, and I will bump the threads that prove as much.

Mosbonian
04-25-2010, 03:36 PM
First, there wasn't consensus opinion, it seems, on the severity of Kindle's injury.

Though the selection is higher, you're not giving up picks to select Kindle, and the risk/reward is entirely slanted in his favor. In KC, we've seen what the greatest TE in the game can bring, and we also have a pretty good idea what a high-quality rush backer can bring, too.

Which would you prefer?

First...why would you waste a pick that high on anyone that has had an injury that could affect his mobility?

I'm willing to concede that it might not have any effect and we could have chosen him and I would be wrong. But are you willing to concede that had we picked him and he got hurt in Training Camp/1st Game of the regular season that most, if not all, who were wanting us to select him would be bitching about wasting a high draft pick on a player we knew had an injury before?

mmaddog
********

dirk digler
04-25-2010, 03:38 PM
And what do you have? Hootie going from "disgusted" to comparing McCluster to Desean Jackson, Percy Harvin, and Wes Welker in five minutes. Javier Arenas turns into Devin Hester. McCluster (and look in the draft thread) changes from "McClusterfuck" to a dynamic playmaker over the course of four hours.


I have been with you more against you on this draft but I will disagree with this a little bit. I think most people didn't know who he was and was confused because he was listed as a RB. I know for me after listening what other experts have said and watched the video, wow this guy is as explosive as anyone I have seen. So I readily admit I was probably wrong about this guy and am kind of excited that he is on our team.

Mosbonian
04-25-2010, 03:40 PM
Kindle's knee issue WRT microfracture was something that one team felt he needed. He missed some time as a sophomore, but he doesn't have the catalog of injuries that Moeaki does.

Ultimately, if you want to pass on him for those concerns, I can understand, but it's funny that the same team that took Rolle when we didn't because of spinal stenosis concerns (Baltimore) did the same here.

What I can't understand is why you'd pass up not only Kindle, but Linval Joseph, Daryl Washington, Everson Griffen, Terrance Cody, Torrell Troup, Cam Thomas, etc. multiple times.

Didn't Troup go in the 1st Round?

Sorry...but I'm one that sees Cody as Ryan Sims v2 just like Cam Thomas.

I don't follow football as closely as many here do...or at least enough to venture a guess anymore. But all the players mentioned above seemed to come with baggage that made more than 1 team pass them up.

mmaddog
********

DeezNutz
04-25-2010, 03:40 PM
First...why would you waste a pick that high on anyone that has had an injury that could affect his mobility?

I'm willing to concede that it might not have any effect and we could have chosen him and I would be wrong. But are you willing to concede that had we picked him and he got hurt in Training Camp/1st Game of the regular season that most, if not all, who were wanting us to select him would be bitching about wasting a high draft pick on a player we knew had an injury before?

mmaddog
********

Nonsense.

This statement operates with the assumption that some on this board complain for the sake of complaining. To believe this type of assumption, one has to turn a blind eye to a mountain of posts offering some of the most nuanced arguments on the board.

Mosbonian
04-25-2010, 03:43 PM
Shipley beat him up pretty bad. The thing is I don't hear alot about his cover skills everyone mentions his punt returning skills. Thats great for a late round pick not a second round pick.

I've seen the best get beaten like a whipped dog in one game...if you are going to guage a person on one game, you're bound to make mistakes.

mmaddog
********

BigMeatballDave
04-25-2010, 03:44 PM
As others have said - 2 years ago. How's that one turnng out?2 yrs ago? 2008? Charles? Albert? Flowers? You dont like these guys?

Mosbonian
04-25-2010, 03:44 PM
Nonsense.

This statement operates with the assumption that some on this board complain for the sake of complaining. To believe this type of assumption, one has to turn a blind eye to a mountain of posts offering some of the most nuanced arguments on the board.

So..in essence you didn't answer my question.

mmaddog
********

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:44 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=206737&highlight=Grade

For keg.

Similar negative grades from most who bashed this draft, save for Dane. Similar reactions from those who support this draft.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:45 PM
You know what the McCluster pick is for me?

It's a better version of Oakland's Mike Mitchell pick.

Oakland reached for the wrong guy, and then it was universally rationalized as "Oh, the Bears were gonna take him if we didn't."

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:46 PM
So..in essence you didn't answer my question.

mmaddog
********

No, he did, you just apparently aren't able to understand the answer.

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 03:46 PM
I've seen the best get beaten like a whipped dog in one game...if you are going to guage a person on one game, you're bound to make mistakes.

mmaddog
********

It was more than just one game watch the senoir bowl. Arenas dosn't have break away speed.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:46 PM
Didn't Troup go in the 1st Round?

Sorry...but I'm one that sees Cody as Ryan Sims v2 just like Cam Thomas.

I don't follow football as closely as many here do...or at least enough to venture a guess anymore. But all the players mentioned above seemed to come with baggage that made more than 1 team pass them up.

mmaddog
********

Troup went at 41, IIRC.

But hey man, the Jets passed on Marino, so obviously they know something that we don't.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:47 PM
I have been with you more against you on this draft but I will disagree with this a little bit. I think most people didn't know who he was and was confused because he was listed as a RB. I know for me after listening what other experts have said and watched the video, wow this guy is as explosive as anyone I have seen. So I readily admit I was probably wrong about this guy and am kind of excited that he is on our team.

Well, then let me put it this way:

If you don't know who the player is, you shouldn't offer an opinion.

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 03:48 PM
There's never no chance, but he carries a huge risk with far less potential upside than someone like Graham.

Even more laughingly, he's smaller and slower than Brad Cottam as well. Of course, I fully expect that Cottam will be cut because he's not one of the Brahman, so a direct comparison will be difficult.

I'll ask you this much:

Was trading up to get Tony Moeaki worth Cam Thomas?

A week ago, did you know who Tony Moeaki was, and did you have him in the same galaxy of his ability to help this team as a Cam Thomas?

First off, I knew who Tony Moeaki was before a week ago and with the Ferentz connection, I wasn't surprised by the pick in the least. There is quite a bit of Big Ten football broadcast on ESPN to the west coast and I've seen Iowa play numerous times over the past few years.

Furthermore, it's not my decision as to whether or not Moeaki was worth losing Cam Thomas. The question in the War Room was this:

Can we go into the season with Leonard Pope, Brad Cottam and Jake O'Connell as our tight ends?

Can we go into this season with Ron Edwards and Shaun Smith as our NT's?

Which is better addressed at this particular point in the draft?

There is absolutely no denying that tight end was a position of need. They felt that Moeaki was worth taking at that time and quite frankly, no one, Pioli included, knows if it was exactly the right decision.

But with that said, I'm not going to pretend that someone like Cam Thomas, a fifth rounder, would have even been on their board in the fifth.And even if he was, that shouldn't paralyze any GM from doing what they think is right at any given moment in the draft.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:50 PM
Can we go into the season with Leonard Pope, Brad Cottam and Jake O'Connell as our tight ends?

Can we go into this season with Ron Edwards and Shaun Smith as our NT's?

Which is better addressed at this particular point in the draft?



I am completely without words.

Mosbonian
04-25-2010, 03:50 PM
No, he did, you just apparently aren't able to understand the answer.

How about I pose it here for both of you direct and to the point...

If we picked Kindle at 2a (or hell even 2B) and he was injured would you be bitching about wasting a pick on a player we knew had been injured before?

mmaddog
********

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 03:51 PM
Who is worth more:

An outside linebacker in a 3-4 who can harass the QB
A 0 technique who can command consistent double teams
A potential franchise QB
A slot receiver with size and speed
A legit #2 receiver


or Dave Meggett

I think McCluster's absolute upside is Dave Meggett.

He'll be a good player, but he's not worth more than the above.

I disagree.

The Kindle and Cody both went to teams that are loaded defensively and are able to take chances (medical and physical/mental) on boom or bust players. The Chiefs cannot at this point in time.

If McCluster's upside is Meggett on the field, sign me up! He was instrumental in those Giants offenses in the 80's and key to their Super Bowl appearances.

I'll take productivity and playmaking over boom or bust guys any day of the week in 2010.

Mosbonian
04-25-2010, 03:52 PM
Well, then let me put it this way:

If you don't know who the player is, you shouldn't offer an opinion.

Wow..how arrogant.

Usually it's fun reading your assessment because at least you don't show a team bias....but this year you seem to have a thin skin when it comes to people disagreeing with you.

mmaddog
********

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 03:54 PM
I am completely without words.

Sorry.

I guarantee that was what was going on in their minds.

I've spoken to quite a few of my friends in the college ranks that have ties to the NFL and the way most of these guys see it, if THEIR guy is on the board, they get him.

I'm not saying that they're right or wrong with that approach but I think that if Moeaki performs as expected, it would have been silly for them to think "Well, if we take Moeaki, we may not have a chance at X player 50 picks down the line".

That kind of thinking paralyzes teams into making bad choices.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:55 PM
Wow..how arrogant.

Usually it's fun reading your assessment because at least you don't show a team bias....but this year you seem to have a thin skin when it comes to people disagreeing with you.

mmaddog
********

It's not arrogant at all.

Would you go to someone off the street who had no idea what Health Care Reform was and ask them their opinion on it?

Would you ask a 90 year old woman who doesn't know the difference between a calculator and a Cray super computer if an I7 was a superior processor to a top of the line AMD?

No.

chris
04-25-2010, 03:56 PM
What a useless ****ing post.

Nope, great post.

Some don't like being called out as silly fools. The draft comedy from numerous CP " draft experts" has been priceless.

The Clausen man lovers have been the best!

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 03:56 PM
Whats it say when you basically repeat the same draft in a row aside from a few guys? The Washington, Brown, McConnell picks look like a total waste.

Brown is in no way a waste, unless he ends up on IR once again this season. Even then, he's under contract for at least four more years.

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 03:56 PM
Sorry.

I guarantee that was what was going on in their minds.

I've spoken to quite a few of my friends in the college ranks that have ties to the NFL and the way most of these guys see it, if THEIR guy is on the board, they get him.

I'm not saying that they're right or wrong with that approach but I think that if Moeaki performs as expected, it would have been silly for them to think "Well, if we take Moeaki, we may not have a chance at X player 50 picks down the line".

That kind of thinking paralyzes teams into making bad choices.

Thing is Moleaki wasn't there they had to give up picks. Just like they gave up picks for Jake O'Connell. Really is the tight end position worth four picks for a team with this many holes?

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:56 PM
How about I pose it here for both of you direct and to the point...

If we picked Kindle at 2a (or hell even 2B) and he was injured would you be bitching about wasting a pick on a player we knew had been injured before?

mmaddog
********

Begging the question is a logical fallacy

CarlPeterson_fan
04-25-2010, 03:57 PM
I'm still available. Ready to bring me back?

chris
04-25-2010, 03:57 PM
Well, I know I'm in the minority but I liked this draft very much.

As I said about last year, if Pioli had taken Matthews, Cushing, Oher, Harvin, etc. at #3 overall, people would have bitched but Pioli would have been right.

This year, people are bitching but unlike last year, I think Pioli IS right this year.

You can find NT's and ILB on cut down day that can fill a need. What you can't find are the best young returners in the country, young playmaking slot receivers and young instinctive football players.

They'll probably only win 6-7 games this year. I think 2012 is the year they become a consistent playoff team, IF Pioli's plan works.

This

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 03:58 PM
Sorry.

I guarantee that was what was going on in their minds.

I've spoken to quite a few of my friends in the college ranks that have ties to the NFL and the way most of these guys see it, if THEIR guy is on the board, they get him.

I'm not saying that they're right or wrong with that approach but I think that if Moeaki performs as expected, it would have been silly for them to think "Well, if we take Moeaki, we may not have a chance at X player 50 picks down the line".

That kind of thinking paralyzes teams into making bad choices.

That's not a defensible line of thinking. If anything, it's an admission of their incompetence and it could be seen as impugning the selection of Moeaki, not supporting it.

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 03:58 PM
Brown is in no way a waste, unless he ends up on IR once again this season. Even then, he's under contract for at least four more years.

Is he going to replace Waters, Lilja or Asmogha? Don't forget the picks we gave up for Allenmen and Ndwuke.

dirk digler
04-25-2010, 03:59 PM
Well, then let me put it this way:

If you don't know who the player is, you shouldn't offer an opinion.

Probably true but this is what a message board is for. After people really learned about this kid most people including myself think it was a good pick and are excited. This guy is probably more explosive than most of the WR's in the draft.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 04:00 PM
Probably true but this is what a message board is for. After people really learned about this kid most people including myself think it was a good pick and are excited. This guy is probably more explosive than most of the WR's in the draft.

In psychology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology) and logic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic), rationalization (or making excuses<sup id="cite_ref-0" class="reference">[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_%28psychology%29#cite_note-0)</sup>) is the process of constructing a logical justification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_justification) for a belief, decision, action or lack thereof that was originally arrived at through a different mental process. It is a defense mechanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_mechanism) in which perceived controversial behaviors or feelings are explained in a rational or logical manner to avoid the true explanation of the behavior or feeling in question.<sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference">[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_%28psychology%29#cite_note-1)</sup><sup id="cite_ref-2" class="reference">[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_%28psychology%29#cite_note-2)</sup> It is also an informal fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informal_fallacy) of reasoning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasoning).<sup class="Template-Fact" title="This claim needs references to reliable sources from March 2010" style="white-space: nowrap;">[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]</sup>
This process can be in a range from fully conscious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscious) (e.g. to present an external defense against ridicule from others) to mostly subconscious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subconscious) (e.g. to create a block against internal feelings of guilt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt)).


Rationalization is one of the defense mechanisms proposed by Sigmund Freud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud), which were later developed further by his daughter Anna Freud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Freud).


According to the DSM-IV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders), rationalization occurs "when the individual deals with emotional conflict or internal or external stressors by concealing the true motivations for his or her own thoughts, actions, or feelings through the elaboration of reassuring or self serving but incorrect explanations."

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 04:01 PM
What I can't understand is why you'd pass up not only Kindle, but Linval Joseph, Daryl Washington, Everson Griffen, Terrance Cody, Torrell Troup, Cam Thomas, etc. multiple times.

It's obvious why: They felt that they needed a guy that could line up at QB, RB and WR, that offered immense versatility more than a NT at this time.

They felt like they needed a dynamic returner and nickel back more than a NT at this time.

They felt like they needed a stud fucking guard more than a NT at this time.

And on and on and on.

You can disagree all you want with their line of thinking but don't discount the fact that they addressed areas of concern with smart, proven, dedicated football players.

dirk digler
04-25-2010, 04:03 PM
But with that said, I'm not going to pretend that someone like Cam Thomas, a fifth rounder, would have even been on their board in the fifth.And even if he was, that shouldn't paralyze any GM from doing what they think is right at any given moment in the draft.

If it isn't obvious now to everyone it should be. The reasons why the Chiefs passed on Kindle, Cody and Cam was because of character concerns. Agree or disagree with that approach but it is what it is.

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 04:03 PM
Is he going to replace Waters, Lilja or Asmogha? Don't forget the picks we gave up for Allenmen and Ndwuke.

Here's the way I see the line:

Albert/Asamoah/Niswanger/Brown/O'Callaghan.

If Brown can't beat out Lilja, then Lilja will start at right guard. I think Waters is depth this year or cut loose altogether. I can't understand why Faneca was waived but Waters wasn't.

As for Allenman and Nsukwe, it was a wasted 6th round pick. I think the only way Nsukwe makes the club is as a backup player at right guard and right tackle or injury to one of the starters in preseason.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 04:04 PM
So let me pose theses questions to you...

1) Are you a paid evaluator of college football talent? (If yes, skip question 2)

2) Are you a football coach at University/College/HS? (If yes, skip question 3)

3) What makes you any more knowledgeable than any other amateur draft evaluator?

mmaddog
********

Appealing to authority is also a logical fallacy.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 04:05 PM
You can disagree all you want with their line of thinking but don't discount the fact that they addressed areas of concern with smart, proven, dedicated football players.

"You just gotta trust the process".

Der Flöprer
04-25-2010, 04:06 PM
The one pick that pissed me off more than any other was Javier Arenas. The more I see this kid though, the less I dislike the pick. I HATE the value of McCluster and Arenas both, but I think they're both going to be contributors to the team.

Arenas in particular is someone I'm growing very warm too. The reason for that is not so much his return ability, I saw that right away. If this guy can blitz the QB from the nickel spot and have half the success he had in college, he's going to be a force.

Overall, it is what it is and I'm going to get behind the newest Chiefs. I reserve the right to resume my shit talking should this team come out looking like last year's team did. :p

And I still think we're looking at the worst rush defense in the league. That's going to automatically make the pass defense better and people will say mission accomplished. That's flawed logic IMO.

dirk digler
04-25-2010, 04:06 PM
In psychology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology) and logic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic), rationalization (or making excuses<sup id="cite_ref-0" class="reference">[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_%28psychology%29#cite_note-0)</sup>) is the process of constructing a logical justification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_justification) for a belief, decision, action or lack thereof that was originally arrived at through a different mental process. It is a defense mechanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_mechanism) in which perceived controversial behaviors or feelings are explained in a rational or logical manner to avoid the true explanation of the behavior or feeling in question.<sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference">[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_%28psychology%29#cite_note-1)</sup><sup id="cite_ref-2" class="reference">[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_%28psychology%29#cite_note-2)</sup> It is also an informal fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informal_fallacy) of reasoning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasoning).<sup class="Template-Fact" title="This claim needs references to reliable sources from March 2010" style="white-space: nowrap;">[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]</sup>
This process can be in a range from fully conscious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscious) (e.g. to present an external defense against ridicule from others) to mostly subconscious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subconscious) (e.g. to create a block against internal feelings of guilt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt)).


Rationalization is one of the defense mechanisms proposed by Sigmund Freud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud), which were later developed further by his daughter Anna Freud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Freud).


According to the DSM-IV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders), rationalization occurs "when the individual deals with emotional conflict or internal or external stressors by concealing the true motivations for his or her own thoughts, actions, or feelings through the elaboration of reassuring or self serving but incorrect explanations."

I understand what rationalization is Hamas. I even said in the draft thread I can rationalize this pick LMAO

Have you gone back and read and watched this kid? I don't see how you can't be excited about him.

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 04:06 PM
Here's the way I see the line:

Albert/Asamoah/Niswanger/Brown/O'Callaghan.

If Brown can't beat out Lilja, then Lilja will start at right guard. I think Waters is depth this year or cut loose altogether. I can't understand why Faneca was waived but Waters wasn't.

As for Allenman and Nsukwe, it was a wasted 6th round pick. I think the only way Nsukwe makes the club is as a backup player at right guard and right tackle or injury to one of the starters in preseason.

I don't see how Waters can stick around just to be a back up. Honestly i'm wonderng why Pioli keeps wasting resources on positions like Guard and tight end but wont address the QB position.

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 04:07 PM
Thing is Moleaki wasn't there they had to give up picks. Just like they gave up picks for Jake O'Connell. Really is the tight end position worth four picks for a team with this many holes?

Apparently for the Chiefs, Pioli, Haley and Weis, it was.

Time will tell whether or not it pays off but I am not going to proclaim at this point in time that it was a "wasted pick".

Keep in mind, the Chiefs had four tight ends on their roster last year in Ryan, Pope, O'Connell and Cottam. Ryan is gone, Cottam ended the year on IR (again), Pope is nothing special and O'Connell has a long, long way to go before being a productive NFL player.

They needed to make a move of some sort and this was it. I'll wait a while to judge whether it was right or wrong.

dirk digler
04-25-2010, 04:08 PM
The one pick that pissed me off more than any other was Javier Arenas. The more I see this kid though, the less I dislike the pick. I HATE the value of McCluster and Arenas both, but I think they're both going to be contributors to the team.

Arenas in particular is someone I'm growing very warm too. The reason for that is not so much his return ability, I saw that right away. If this guy can blitz the QB from the nickel spot and have half the success he had in college, he's going to be a force.

Overall, it is what it is and I'm going to get behind the newest Chiefs. I reserve the right to resume my shit talking should this team come out looking like last year's team did. :p

And I still think we're looking at the worst rush defense in the league. That's going to automatically make the pass defense better and people will say mission accomplished. That's flawed logic IMO.

Good post though the pick I was most upset about and still am is the moving up and taking an oft-injured TE. I didn't like the Areanas pick either but I guess in their mind a KR\slot CB is more important than NT.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 04:08 PM
So what you want to do is dodge answering the question by reverting to psychological answers....

So using your very thought process can't the same hypothesis be used on all draft picks?

mmaddog
********

My responses to you aren't psychological answers, they are logical ones.

:facepalm:

Good God.

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2010, 04:09 PM
I don't see how Waters can stick around just to be a back up. Honestly i'm wonderng why Pioli keeps wasting resources on positions like Guard and tight end but wont address the QB position.

He addressed the QB position last year by trading for Cassel and signing Gutierrez. He wasn't going to address it again this year.

The offensive line needed to be addressed, big time. Hopefully, Brown will start at right guard and Asamoah at left, giving the Chiefs four young players along their line to build around.

I have absolutely no issues with Asamoah as a Chief. The guy could be a 10 year starter barring injury.

Just Passin' By
04-25-2010, 04:09 PM
What you can't find are elite nose tackles off the street.

Casey Hampton, Vince Wilfork, Jamal Williams, Shaun Rogers, and Kris Jenkins were all very high draft picks.

It's a complete inversion of value.

Thomas wasn't drafted until the 5th round. Using your own logic, that would not be a "very high draft pick". Therefore, why would you assume he was the right nose tackle to take when all those 'elite' NTs you pointed to were drafted in the first (Wilfork, Hampton) or second round (Jenkins, Williams, Rogers)?

CarlPeterson_fan
04-25-2010, 04:10 PM
So let me pose these questions to you...

1) Are you a paid evaluator of college football talent? (If yes, skip question 2)

2) Are you a football coach at University/College/HS? (If yes, skip question 3)

3) What makes you any more knowledgeable than any other amateur draft evaluator???

mmaddog
********

I used to run the draft every year for thi team. Does my opinion count? Before you answer, I think Pioli. or Egoli as my favorite moron shitbag columnist calls him, sucks balls.

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2010, 04:11 PM
He addressed the QB position last year by trading for Cassel and signing Gutierrez. He wasn't going to address it again this year.

The offensive line needed to be addressed, big time. Hopefully, Brown will start at right guard and Asamoah at left, giving the Chiefs four young players along their line to build around.

I have absolutely no issues with Asamoah as a Chief. The guy could be a 10 year starter barring injury.

Yea Asamoah was a good pick hopefully the next Will Shields though thats expecting alot. The point is Pioli addressed the QB and it sucked and did nothing. He addressed other said positions they sucked and he addressed them again.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2010, 04:11 PM
I understand what rationalization is Hamas. I even said in the draft thread I can rationalize this pick LMAO

Have you gone back and read and watched this kid? I don't see how you can't be excited about him.

Like I said, I think he could potentially be Dave Meggett if everything works out for him.

That said, Sergio Kindle could be Brian Orakpo, DeMarcus Ware, or James Harrison if everything works out for him.

Who would you rather have?

(and again, realize that neither are realistic comparisons)