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View Full Version : Chiefs Michael Ash tries to decipher Pioli's plan


Count Alex's Losses
04-25-2010, 03:42 PM
http://kan.scout.com/2/965492.html

<script type="text/javascript">$("#send-to-blogger").attr("href", "http://www.blogger.com/blog_this.pyra?t=" + escape($('#story-deck').html()) + "&u=" + escape(location.href) + "&n=" + escape($('#story-title').html())); </script> <script type="text/javascript"> var addthis_config = { services_exclude: "twitter,facebook,blogger,email,print" }; var addthis_share = { url: location.href, title: $("#story-title").html(), content: $("#story-deck").html(), templates: { twitter: "RT @ScoutChiefs {{title}} {{url}}" } }; </script> <script type="text/javascript" src="http://s7.addthis.com/js/250/addthis_widget.js?pub=scout"></script> <script type="text/javascript"> var story = {}; $(function() { var $email = $("#email-a-friend-link"); var $window = $("#email-a-friend-window"); $email.overlay(); story.$overlay = $("#overlay"); $email.click(function() { $window.html('<iframe style="width: 600px; height: 625px;" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="false" leftmargin="0" topmargin="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" id="email-a-friend-frame" src="/story/sendtofriend/965492"></iframe>'); story.$iframe = $("#email-a-friend-frame"); }); }); </script> <script> var premiumFlag = 0; </script> <!--end STORY DISPLAY--> If Warpaint Illustrated had conducted a pre-draft survey of Chiefs fans, asking them which areas they thought the team most needed to address over the weekend, I’m guessing the most common answers would have looked something like this:

- nose tackle
- inside linebacker
- pass rush
- safety
- wide receiver
- offensive line

Judging by the result of the draft, if we’d asked members of the Chiefs’ front office and coaching staff what they wanted to add to the team, the results would have looked more like this:

- big-play ability
- good citizens
- guys who look faster on tape than their 40-yard dash time would indicate
- safety
- kick returner
- tight end


The rather sizeable disconnect between those two lists is the story of the 2010 draft. The consensus seems to be that the Chiefs added several talented players, so criticism of the draft isn’t meant to suggest that they collected a stockpile of future busts.

The question is how much can these newly-acquired players actually help the team when more critical areas went unaddressed?

For example, now that the draft is behind us, let’s stop and ask ourselves what the Chiefs have done at the linebacker position this offseason. Barring a trade or late free agent signing, it appears the team will go into the 2010 season with almost the exact same lineup as 2009.

True, Derrick Johnson (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4872955) will probably find his way back into a starting role. But for every nice play he makes, he still misses at least 5 tackles along the way. Worse yet, he seems to have personally given tackling lessons to fellow ILB Corey Mays (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4919139), who was a whiff machine in his own right. And we all know Mike Vrabel (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4834298) isn’t getting any younger.

Meanwhile, as the Chiefs opted for a luxury pick like Dexter McCluster in the second round, there were pass-rushing OLBs like Sergio Kindle (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4225955) and Koa Misi (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4371809) sitting right there for the taking. The same goes for a highly-regarded inside linebacker like Daryl Washington (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4375989).

The 2010 draft class was considered incredibly deep, particularly on the defensive side of the ball. But after failing to address the entire front seven through the first three rounds, the Chiefs traded up late on Friday – and took a tight end?

Is there something we’re missing here? Are there future starters sitting right under our nose and we don’t know it? Is the team so confident in young backups Andy Studebaker (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4307553), Jovan Belcher (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4540314), and Pierre Walters (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4416115) that they felt no major upgrades were needed?

Even if we put on our rose-colored glasses and assume that to be the case, it still doesn’t help fill the spacious chasm the Chiefs currently have at nose tackle. If there was one position everyone was certain the team had to find in the draft, it was a big-bodied tackle to plug up the middle.

Instead, they ended up passing twice on Terrence Cody (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4369999) in the second round, and then passed twice on Cam Thomas (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4737534) in the fifth. Granted, both of those players had some red flags, but respected front offices like Baltimore and San Diego weren’t scared away.

How has the team still not found a nose tackle? Do they expect the addition of Shaun Smith (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4847685) to make a noticeable difference at the position? Was there actually something to the pre-draft talk of trying Glenn Dorsey (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4307441) there? Unless the Chiefs switch to a one-gap scheme, expecting Dorsey to fill that role seems like a questionable idea at best.

Other than the expectation that their second year in the scheme will bring improvement from players like Dorsey and Tyson Jackson, there’s seems to be little reason to expect the Chiefs’ 31st ranked run defense to show much improvement.

In fact, it seems like the only reason for hope is the addition of Romeo Crennel as defensive coordinator. Is that the plan? That a coordinator alone can take the same group of talent and make them play considerably better than they did the year before?

Because that didn’t work out too well for the Chiefs back in 2004, when they brought back Gunther Cunningham and did nothing to improve the personnel. The defense actually regressed that year, giving up a touchdown more per game than they had under Greg Robinson in 2003.

Of course, it goes without saying that Crennel has a better resume than Gunther could ever dream of. But the overall point remains the same -- counting on a coordinator to single-handedly patch things up might not be the best strategy.

But, hey, maybe we’re missing the point. After all, judging by the draft, it seems like the Chiefs have settled on a three-pronged plan for victory in 2010: be creative and score lots of points on offense, return lots of kicks and punts for touchdowns, and then let Eric Berry (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4299001) roam free in the secondary when the other team starts passing to catch up.

If that’s the strategy, then ignoring the front seven makes sense. They’ll be lucky to win two games that way, but at least we can take some comfort in knowing there’s a plan in place.

In all seriousness, over the offseason the Chiefs have added Ryan Lilja (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4852794) and Casey Wiegmann (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4847603) to the offensive line, Thomas Jones (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4840882) to spell Jamaal Charles (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4307409), draftees McCluster and Tony Moeaki (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4253903) to the passing game, and now they have Charlie Weis sitting at the controls. As long as Matt Cassel (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4210794) doesn’t wet the bed, there’s the potential of a productive offense there.

Unfortunately, if the offense does come around, it seems destined – at least in 2010 – to be hamstrung by a defense that won’t be holding up its end of the bargain.

An effective offense, dangerous kick returners, a porous defense -- all this time we thought Scott Pioli wanted to recreate the Patriots. Who knew that he wanted to recreate the Dick Vermeil Chiefs instead?
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DTLB58
04-25-2010, 03:49 PM
I thought this was pretty good actually. :thumb:

beach tribe
04-25-2010, 03:53 PM
I thought this was pretty good actually. :thumb:

Funny how everyone says Best Player Available, but when they do that everyone freaks out.

CarlPeterson_fan
04-25-2010, 03:53 PM
ROFL at you guys who hated me

OnTheWarpath58
04-25-2010, 04:01 PM
Ash is one of the very few over there that get it.

Last year, in a draft full of offensive talent, especially at OL, our greatest need at the time, Pioli ignored need, ignored value, and went defense-heavy because he thought the OL would be good enough to get by.

We saw you that worked out.

This year, in a draft full of defensive talent, especially at NT and LB - again, our greatest needs - Pioli ignored those needs, even though the board couldn't possibly have lined up any better from a need/value persective - and went offense heavy because he thinks that Romeo Crennel alone is going to make a difference.

I'm just dumbfounded that the Executive of the Decade and his HC had the balls to come out and say that getting a KICK RETURNER was a "must."

Because when I'm looking at rebuilding a team - who was nearly dead last against the run, and gave up almost 300 yards to a 3rd string RB in a home game - the first thing I think to do is upgrade my return game.

I really hope these picks work out, because we're going to have to score a lot of points to keep from getting blown out on a weekly basis.

Fritz88
04-25-2010, 04:07 PM
Romeo will fix the D. don't worry about it.

Fritz88
04-25-2010, 04:10 PM
Ash is one of the very few over there that get it.

Last year, in a draft full of offensive talent, especially at OL, our greatest need at the time, Pioli ignored need, ignored value, and went defense-heavy because he thought the OL would be good enough to get by.

We saw you that worked out.

This year, in a draft full of defensive talent, especially at NT and LB - again, our greatest needs - Pioli ignored those needs, even though the board couldn't possibly have lined up any better from a need/value persective - and went offense heavy because he thinks that Romeo Crennel alone is going to make a difference.

I'm just dumbfounded that the Executive of the Decade and his HC had the balls to come out and say that getting a KICK RETURNER was a "must."

Because when I'm looking at rebuilding a team - who was nearly dead last against the run, and gave up almost 300 yards to a 3rd string RB in a home game - the first thing I think to do is upgrade my return game.

I really hope these picks work out, because we're going to have to score a lot of points to keep from getting blown out on a weekly basis.

I wish I could use this memory wiper, quit football for 5 years then come back to it when Pioli is gone because the next few years will be bad.

http://www.thechangelab.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/mib-memory-flash.jpg

OnTheWarpath58
04-25-2010, 04:12 PM
Funny how everyone says Best Player Available, but when they do that everyone freaks out.

You have to be kidding me.

Dexter McCluster was NOT the BPA at 36. Not even close.

Kindle, Cody, Daryl Washington, Koa Misi, Arrelious Benn, Taylor Mays, Sean Lee, Golden Tate among others were all rated higher than McCluster. I've yet to see him ranked any higher than the mid 50's on anyone's Top 100 list.

Neither was Arenas. But we had to have a KR, per Haley/Pioli.

Neither was Moeaki. There were not only better players of need available, there were better TE's available.

In this draft, the BPA's at every one of our picks actually matched our most desperate needs, but we went against need, and against value by taking players earlier than they deserved to go with better talent (at positions of greater need) still on the board.

burt
04-25-2010, 04:23 PM
http://kan.scout.com/2/965492.html

<script type="text/javascript">$("#send-to-blogger").attr("href", "http://www.blogger.com/blog_this.pyra?t=" + escape($('#story-deck').html()) + "&u=" + escape(location.href) + "&n=" + escape($('#story-title').html())); </script> <script type="text/javascript"> var addthis_config = { services_exclude: "twitter,facebook,blogger,email,print" }; var addthis_share = { url: location.href, title: $("#story-title").html(), content: $("#story-deck").html(), templates: { twitter: "RT @ScoutChiefs {{title}} {{url}}" } }; </script> <script type="text/javascript" src="http://s7.addthis.com/js/250/addthis_widget.js?pub=scout"></script> <script type="text/javascript"> var story = {}; $(function() { var $email = $("#email-a-friend-link"); var $window = $("#email-a-friend-window"); $email.overlay(); story.$overlay = $("#overlay"); $email.click(function() { $window.html('<iframe style="width: 600px; height: 625px;" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="false" leftmargin="0" topmargin="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" id="email-a-friend-frame" src="/story/sendtofriend/965492"></iframe>'); story.$iframe = $("#email-a-friend-frame"); }); }); </script> <script> var premiumFlag = 0; </script> <!--end STORY DISPLAY--> If Warpaint Illustrated

Sorry....didn't read past this.

CoMoChief
04-25-2010, 04:54 PM
As long as Matt Cassel doesn’t wet the bed, there’s the potential of a productive offense there.

I can't believe he actually wrote this into the article.

LaChapelle
04-25-2010, 05:35 PM
Jack Harry and Nick Athan break down the draft on the 10pm news on 41
I think Harry is going to blow a gasket over not taking a LT

Valiant
04-25-2010, 06:00 PM
Thought it was a horrible article written with spin..

It is not going to be the exact defense, last years group was coached poorly and Berry is a huge upgrade.. Not counting the fact they barely used DJ until the last game because of coaching.. Hopefully he can be our Bob Sanders and gel the defense ala Colts 2006..

Count Alex's Losses
04-25-2010, 06:02 PM
Derrick Johnson...can be our Bob Sanders....

Maybe Matt Cassel can be our Peyton Manning.

tonyetony
04-25-2010, 06:09 PM
Our existing line was better the second Krumrie was fired.

The players have changed, the DC's have changed, the Head Coach has changed, the GM has changed and the Owner has changed and our d-line has sucked ass consistantly and the one constant has been the worst D-line coach in the league, Tim ****ing Krumrie.

morphius
04-25-2010, 07:14 PM
You have to be kidding me.

Dexter McCluster was NOT the BPA at 36. Not even close.

Kindle, Cody, Daryl Washington, Koa Misi, Arrelious Benn, Taylor Mays, Sean Lee, Golden Tate among others were all rated higher than McCluster. I've yet to see him ranked any higher than the mid 50's on anyone's Top 100 list.

Neither was Arenas. But we had to have a KR, per Haley/Pioli.

Neither was Moeaki. There were not only better players of need available, there were better TE's available.

In this draft, the BPA's at every one of our picks actually matched our most desperate needs, but we went against need, and against value by taking players earlier than they deserved to go with better talent (at positions of greater need) still on the board.
Three of those players I can already put on the big risk board, Kindle, Cody and Taylor Mays. Injury and another TX LB, Sims part deux, and lack of instinct. Now, I'm not defending the picks, but I can completely understand not taking those 3. I would have loved a DT out of this draft. I'm okay with the changes to the OL and the drafted Guard.

milkman
04-25-2010, 07:18 PM
Our existing line was better the second Krumrie was fired.

The players have changed, the DC's have changed, the Head Coach has changed, the GM has changed and the Owner has changed and our d-line has sucked ass consistantly and the one constant has been the worst D-line coach in the league, Tim ****ing Krumrie.

That's not true.

Krumrie had only been here for 4 years, and our D-Line has sucked ass for about 10.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 07:21 PM
You have to be kidding me.

Dexter McCluster was NOT the BPA at 36. Not even close.

Kindle, Cody, Daryl Washington, Koa Misi, Arrelious Benn, Taylor Mays, Sean Lee, Golden Tate among others were all rated higher than McCluster. I've yet to see him ranked any higher than the mid 50's on anyone's Top 100 list.
Except that NONE of the draft critics are suggesting this was a reach. Almost all of them are praising the pick. And the Eagles, a pretty damn good team at drafting players, supposedly wanted him the pick later. Only people in KC are saying McCluster was a bad value pick.

Neither was Arenas. But we had to have a KR, per Haley/Pioli.
I'm not overly sold on the Arenas pick. So fine. But again, nobody seems to think this was a reach either.

Neither was Moeaki. There were not only better players of need available, there were better TE's available.
Except that it sounds like he would have been taken a round later.

And based on your criteria of what a TE should look like? Because a lot of people outside of KC really like it. People keep touting these TEs who can't block. Ever stop to think that maybe Weis values blocking as much as he does receiving? Based on his offensive approach, he's a hell of a lot better of a fit than Jimmy Graham, because he's also a hell of a blocker.

In this draft, the BPA's at every one of our picks actually matched our most desperate needs, but we went against need, and against value by taking players earlier than they deserved to go with better talent (at positions of greater need) still on the board.

Bullshit. You're supporting a "needs-based draft." Very, very few draft experts are saying we reached on our picks. You have no idea what our needs are, because you have no idea what Weis' plans for our offense are. And your assessment on talent is purely on upside, but it discounts that guys like Kindle have serious injury concerns, Cody has weight concerns, and that Golden Tate doesn't offer the kind of flexibility McCluster does.

Sorry, you may disagree with the approach. But suggesting this was a draft of reaches for players who weren't needed is completely false. And it completely discounts the fact that a lot of these guys you're touting are anything but sure things.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 07:24 PM
http://kan.scout.com/2/965492.html

<script type="text/javascript">$("#send-to-blogger").attr("href", "http://www.blogger.com/blog_this.pyra?t=" + escape($('#story-deck').html()) + "&u=" + escape(location.href) + "&n=" + escape($('#story-title').html())); </script> <script type="text/javascript"> var addthis_config = { services_exclude: "twitter,facebook,blogger,email,print" }; var addthis_share = { url: location.href, title: $("#story-title").html(), content: $("#story-deck").html(), templates: { twitter: "RT @ScoutChiefs {{title}} {{url}}" } }; </script> <script type="text/javascript" src="http://s7.addthis.com/js/250/addthis_widget.js?pub=scout"></script> <script type="text/javascript"> var story = {}; $(function() { var $email = $("#email-a-friend-link"); var $window = $("#email-a-friend-window"); $email.overlay(); story.$overlay = $("#overlay"); $email.click(function() { $window.html('<iframe style="width: 600px; height: 625px;" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="false" leftmargin="0" topmargin="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" id="email-a-friend-frame" src="/story/sendtofriend/965492"></iframe>'); story.$iframe = $("#email-a-friend-frame"); }); }); </script> <script> var premiumFlag = 0; </script> <!--end STORY DISPLAY--> If Warpaint Illustrated had conducted a pre-draft survey of Chiefs fans, asking them which areas they thought the team most needed to address over the weekend, I’m guessing the most common answers would have looked something like this:

- nose tackle
- inside linebacker
- pass rush
- safety
- wide receiver
- offensive line

Judging by the result of the draft, if we’d asked members of the Chiefs’ front office and coaching staff what they wanted to add to the team, the results would have looked more like this:

- big-play ability
- good citizens
- guys who look faster on tape than their 40-yard dash time would indicate
- safety
- kick returner
- tight end


The rather sizeable disconnect between those two lists is the story of the 2010 draft. The consensus seems to be that the Chiefs added several talented players, so criticism of the draft isn’t meant to suggest that they collected a stockpile of future busts.

The question is how much can these newly-acquired players actually help the team when more critical areas went unaddressed?

For example, now that the draft is behind us, let’s stop and ask ourselves what the Chiefs have done at the linebacker position this offseason. Barring a trade or late free agent signing, it appears the team will go into the 2010 season with almost the exact same lineup as 2009.

True, Derrick Johnson (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4872955) will probably find his way back into a starting role. But for every nice play he makes, he still misses at least 5 tackles along the way. Worse yet, he seems to have personally given tackling lessons to fellow ILB Corey Mays (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4919139), who was a whiff machine in his own right. And we all know Mike Vrabel (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4834298) isn’t getting any younger.

Meanwhile, as the Chiefs opted for a luxury pick like Dexter McCluster in the second round, there were pass-rushing OLBs like Sergio Kindle (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4225955) and Koa Misi (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4371809) sitting right there for the taking. The same goes for a highly-regarded inside linebacker like Daryl Washington (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4375989).

The 2010 draft class was considered incredibly deep, particularly on the defensive side of the ball. But after failing to address the entire front seven through the first three rounds, the Chiefs traded up late on Friday – and took a tight end?

Is there something we’re missing here? Are there future starters sitting right under our nose and we don’t know it? Is the team so confident in young backups Andy Studebaker (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4307553), Jovan Belcher (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4540314), and Pierre Walters (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4416115) that they felt no major upgrades were needed?

Even if we put on our rose-colored glasses and assume that to be the case, it still doesn’t help fill the spacious chasm the Chiefs currently have at nose tackle. If there was one position everyone was certain the team had to find in the draft, it was a big-bodied tackle to plug up the middle.

Instead, they ended up passing twice on Terrence Cody (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4369999) in the second round, and then passed twice on Cam Thomas (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4737534) in the fifth. Granted, both of those players had some red flags, but respected front offices like Baltimore and San Diego weren’t scared away.

How has the team still not found a nose tackle? Do they expect the addition of Shaun Smith (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4847685) to make a noticeable difference at the position? Was there actually something to the pre-draft talk of trying Glenn Dorsey (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4307441) there? Unless the Chiefs switch to a one-gap scheme, expecting Dorsey to fill that role seems like a questionable idea at best.

Other than the expectation that their second year in the scheme will bring improvement from players like Dorsey and Tyson Jackson, there’s seems to be little reason to expect the Chiefs’ 31st ranked run defense to show much improvement.

In fact, it seems like the only reason for hope is the addition of Romeo Crennel as defensive coordinator. Is that the plan? That a coordinator alone can take the same group of talent and make them play considerably better than they did the year before?

Because that didn’t work out too well for the Chiefs back in 2004, when they brought back Gunther Cunningham and did nothing to improve the personnel. The defense actually regressed that year, giving up a touchdown more per game than they had under Greg Robinson in 2003.

Of course, it goes without saying that Crennel has a better resume than Gunther could ever dream of. But the overall point remains the same -- counting on a coordinator to single-handedly patch things up might not be the best strategy.

But, hey, maybe we’re missing the point. After all, judging by the draft, it seems like the Chiefs have settled on a three-pronged plan for victory in 2010: be creative and score lots of points on offense, return lots of kicks and punts for touchdowns, and then let Eric Berry (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4299001) roam free in the secondary when the other team starts passing to catch up.

If that’s the strategy, then ignoring the front seven makes sense. They’ll be lucky to win two games that way, but at least we can take some comfort in knowing there’s a plan in place.

In all seriousness, over the offseason the Chiefs have added Ryan Lilja (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4852794) and Casey Wiegmann (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4847603) to the offensive line, Thomas Jones (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4840882) to spell Jamaal Charles (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4307409), draftees McCluster and Tony Moeaki (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4253903) to the passing game, and now they have Charlie Weis sitting at the controls. As long as Matt Cassel (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4210794) doesn’t wet the bed, there’s the potential of a productive offense there.

Unfortunately, if the offense does come around, it seems destined – at least in 2010 – to be hamstrung by a defense that won’t be holding up its end of the bargain.

An effective offense, dangerous kick returners, a porous defense -- all this time we thought Scott Pioli wanted to recreate the Patriots. Who knew that he wanted to recreate the Dick Vermeil Chiefs instead?
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I only had to read the first part to know where the article went completely wrong.

The draft doesn't demonstrate that the Chiefs place high value on returnmen and tight ends and safeties. It suggests that they're going to stick to their board and they're not going to walk into picks with tunnel vision.

You don't walk into a pick with only 2-3 positions in mind.

The_Doctor10
04-25-2010, 07:26 PM
Bullshit. You're supporting a "needs-based draft." Very, very few draft experts are saying we reached on our picks. You have no idea what our needs are, because you have no idea what Weis' plans for our offense are. And your assessment on talent is purely on upside, but it discounts that guys like Kindle have serious injury concerns, Cody has weight concerns, and that Golden Tate doesn't offer the kind of flexibility McCluster does.

Sorry, you may disagree with the approach. But suggesting this was a draft of reaches for players who weren't needed is completely false. And it completely discounts the fact that a lot of these guys you're touting are anything but sure things.

I have no real issues with the rest of your post, or the philosophy in general, but how exactly does one run a 3-4 defense with a nose tackle that DOESN'T have weight problems? Human beings aren't supposed to be 325-350 pounds to begin with; one of the few uses for people of that size is to plug them in at nose. If the Chiefs didn't want to take a DT who weighed more than 305 lbs, they should never have gone to a 3-4 in the first place.

tonyetony
04-25-2010, 07:29 PM
That's not true.

Krumrie had only been here for 4 years, and our D-Line has sucked ass for about 10.

True, but the last 4 everything has changed except for Krumrie.

Crennel will make some difference and most likely for the better. Last I heard he's won a few super bowls as a DC.

Sanka
04-25-2010, 07:30 PM
Golden Tate doesn't offer the kind of flexibility McCluster does.

Golden Tate came to ND as a RB and he could return kicks as well. So your flexibilty theory is BS.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 07:32 PM
I have no real issues with the rest of your post, or the philosophy in general, but how exactly does one run a 3-4 defense with a nose tackle that DOESN'T have weight problems? Human beings aren't supposed to be 325-350 pounds to begin with; one of the few uses for people of that size is to plug them in at nose. If the Chiefs didn't want to take a DT who weighed more than 305 lbs, they should never have gone to a 3-4 in the first place.

You worry about a guy who weighs a ton and then magically finds motivation to lose weight for the senior bowl. Why wasn't he doing that earlier? You worry that he'll eat his way out of the league, as Jonathan Sullivan did in New Orleans. You worry if weight gain is a signal that he lacks motivation to work hard. And given how physically demanding NT is (the most demanding on defense), you wonder how well he'll be conditioned to take that kind of strain for a full season on 67% of defensive snaps.

And I believe there are some worries that in college, he got away with being so massive. In the NFL, where players are much bigger, he can't survive by just sitting there and taking up space. He has to drive huge players into the backfield.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 07:33 PM
Golden Tate came to ND as a RB and he could return kicks as well. So your flexibilty theory is BS.

Find me a single person who thinks he's suited to play a flex role between slot/RB. He's going to be a pure slot receiver/return guy. Period.

Any team that sees Golden Tate lined up in the backfield as a RB will laugh their face off.

Sanka
04-25-2010, 07:35 PM
Find me a single person who thinks he's suited to play a flex role between slot/RB. He's going to be a pure slot receiver/return guy. Period.

Any team that sees Golden Tate lined up in the backfield as a RB will laugh their face off.
Did you watch any ND games last year? Cause if you had, you would of known that he played in the backfield last year.

The_Doctor10
04-25-2010, 07:38 PM
You worry about a guy who weighs a ton and then magically finds motivation to lose weight for the senior bowl. Why wasn't he doing that earlier? You worry that he'll eat his way out of the league, as Jonathan Sullivan did in New Orleans. You worry if weight gain is a signal that he lacks motivation to work hard. And given how physically demanding NT is (the most demanding on defense), you wonder how well he'll be conditioned to take that kind of strain for a full season on 67% of defensive snaps.

And I believe there are some worries that in college, he got away with being so massive. In the NFL, where players are much bigger, he can't survive by just sitting there and taking up space. He has to drive huge players into the backfield.

But at the same time, human beings just don't grow to be nose tackle weight. So wouldn't anyone that size have at least SOME concern about their weight? Look at Casey Hampton, who has all kinds of work ethic questions... NT on two Super Bowl winning teams. I think at some point you have to accept that if you want to run a 3-4, you're likely going to have to deal with a few large fat men who enjoy themselves some pies.

RufusRJones
04-25-2010, 07:41 PM
Any chance Pioli remembered how utterly pathetic our offence was last year, and happened to look at some stats that showed a miserable time of possession difference and thought - "hey, this defense does suck, but you know what? Our offense is so inept, maybe if we didn't have the defense on the field the whole game, they might not suck quite as bad."

That's the only thing I can figure out is that his approach is all about field position and time of possession right now, and hoping for the best with the defense. It might end up being the wrong way to go, but seriously our offense was freaking terrible last year. Unwatchable bad.

CarlPeterson_fan
04-25-2010, 07:45 PM
Where were all you ballwashers when I was running KC's drafts?

Tombstone RJ
04-25-2010, 07:54 PM
Derrick Johnson...can be our Bob Sanders....

Maybe Matt Cassel can be our Peyton Manning.

:LOL:

SenselessChiefsFan
04-25-2010, 10:17 PM
Ash is one of the very few over there that get it.

Last year, in a draft full of offensive talent, especially at OL, our greatest need at the time, Pioli ignored need, ignored value, and went defense-heavy because he thought the OL would be good enough to get by.

We saw you that worked out.

This year, in a draft full of defensive talent, especially at NT and LB - again, our greatest needs - Pioli ignored those needs, even though the board couldn't possibly have lined up any better from a need/value persective - and went offense heavy because he thinks that Romeo Crennel alone is going to make a difference.

I'm just dumbfounded that the Executive of the Decade and his HC had the balls to come out and say that getting a KICK RETURNER was a "must."

Because when I'm looking at rebuilding a team - who was nearly dead last against the run, and gave up almost 300 yards to a 3rd string RB in a home game - the first thing I think to do is upgrade my return game.

I really hope these picks work out, because we're going to have to score a lot of points to keep from getting blown out on a weekly basis.


#1) Linebacker was weak this year. Not as weak as QB, but weak.

#2) If they had drafted Clausen, all the same guys whining about a NT would just be gushing about him drafting Clausen. So, it isn't that you wanted a NT that badly, you just want to b!tch. And, since Clausen dropped like a rock and the team that drafted him didn't even have a private visit...... you know banging that drum would be pointless.

#3) There were no absolute studs at NT when the Chiefs drafted. There were guys with work ethic issues.

Chiefs took BPA. And, they filled a ton of needs and will be much better this year.

The only position I am worried about is linebacker, but it was a thin draft for linebackers. Sergio Kindle would have been a nice piece except for the knee issues.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-25-2010, 10:22 PM
Ash is one of the very few over there that get it.





Because he agrees with you?

Don't know about you, but just about everyone is praising the Chiefs draft. Why? They got playmakers. They didn't get average starters at starting positions. They got guys who can come in and change the game.

Most think that is a good thing.

LaChapelle
04-25-2010, 10:36 PM
Nick Athan give it an A-
WOOT