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Douche Baggins
04-25-2010, 06:58 PM
Offense sells tickets, defense wins championships.

Last year we set 20-year lows for attendance, had a blackout, and people were very, very disappointed with the Chiefs. The only good thing to come out of the season was Jamaal Charles. The quarterback looked like poo. We ranked 25th in offense, 25th in passing offense, and did nothing in free agency to help the passing game.

Was the defense terrible? Yes. But without some sort of MAJOR progress on the offensive side of the ball, without MAJOR improvement from Matt Cassel, without some kind of EXCITEMENT at Arrowhead besides Charles, the Chiefs were probably looking at a repeat of what happened last year.

So what does Pioli do? Hires an offensive coordinator with a great resume. Signs two offensive linemen in free agency and a running back to complement Charles. In the draft, he picks a tight end (maybe the worst position on the team last year), a potential playmaking threat on offense, another guard to help the line, and a potentially exciting kick returner.

Brokakie and Clusterfuck are CLEARLY designed to play to Cassel's strengths - short-range passing. Last year the Chiefs had no one who was really good at this. Chambers is more of a down-the-field speed receiver and Bowe couldn't catch a cold. With an inaccurate quarterback who can't throw the ball down the field with consistency, that's not enough weapons.

How many slot receivers and tight ends did the Chiefs go through? Bobby Engram, Lance Long, Bobby Wade, Sean Ryan, Brad Cottam, Jake O'Connell, His Holiness Leonard Pope. Why did Cassel thrive in New England? Wes Welker caught 111 passes and Kevin Faulk, Sammy Morris and Benjamin Watson caught another 100.

Cassel needs short-range receivers that can get open and catch the ball consistently. Last year he had almost nobody. If Pioli hit on the right players, and Bowe unfucks himself, now he has plenty, and the Chiefs' YAC-based passing game thrives in tandem with a ZBS-based running game featuring three incredibly talented ball carriers.

Bottom line: The Chiefs have an easy enough schedule that a 25 PPG offense probably results in 7 wins. If Pioli's moves this offseason pan out and Cassel looks competent, the NEW Arrowhead is FUN and EXCITING again and the credibility of the new regime shoots way up. Season ticket sales ignite. And that's EXACTLY what the Chiefs need right now.

Can you imagine the excitement next offseason if people start saying "all we need is a few upgrades on defense and we'll be in the playoffs!" It would probably be the most anticipated season at Arrowhead since....2003....and to a lot of people that is a huge sign of progress.

Do I think Pioli is a moron? No. He's not stupid enough to sit there and look at the roster and think we don't need drastic help in the front seven. But he's not a fan...he's a GM...a general fucking manager...and the franchise he is managing has huge fan support issues and his highly-paid quarterback has credibility issues.

Upgrading the front seven and picking another quarterback probably wouldn't have helped him in that regard in the short term. Because...let's face it...most fans are pretty ignorant. And if Cassel flopped this year while the Chiefs trotted out a mediocre offense and an "improved" defense that wilted late in games without offensive support (see the 2007 Chiefs), guess what? More blackouts, stagnant season-ticket sales and Jason Whitlock ripping Pioli to shreds in the local fishwrap.

Do I like it? Not right now, mot especially, because if you have to prop up a quarterback you probably aren't ever going to win a championship, and I loathe the thought of watching guys like Jerome Harrison rape us for 300 yards rushing for another year. But there's enough true fan in me that I probably won't care if Jamaal Charles, Thomas Jones, Dexter McCluster, Javier Arenas, Tony Moeaki, Dwayne Bowe, Chris Chambers are flat out ripping shit up at Arrowhead this year.

Offense sells tickets, defense wins championships. Right now the Chiefs are nowhere close to a championship, but they sure do need to put some butts in the seats.

CarlPeterson_fan
04-25-2010, 07:02 PM
GoChiefs, Will you stroke me like this too? I sure could use a ballwasher like you.

LetsSignRussell
04-25-2010, 07:03 PM
well thought out!

Douche Baggins
04-25-2010, 07:05 PM
GoChiefs, Will you stroke me like this too? I sure could use a ballwasher like you.

If you actually read the post, LTGMIPS, you'd realize I'm not washing anyone's balls. I'm just trying to make sense of a draft a lot of people hate.

And if the Chiefs suck on offense this year, Pioli's draft will look uber-retarded.

Mecca
04-25-2010, 07:08 PM
I basically agree with that.

Silock
04-25-2010, 07:09 PM
Good points, GC. I also think that we're all forgetting that we still aren't done making moves in the offseason, and will likely try to plug one or two holes on the D where appropriate.

I'm far more optimistic about where the franchise sits RIGHT NOW than I was 2 days after the draft was over last year.

Mecca
04-25-2010, 07:10 PM
Basically end take is, most fans are far more excited for a guy like McCluster than they would be Terrence Cody in a market that is losing interest in the football team.

Silock
04-25-2010, 07:12 PM
Basically end take is, most fans are far more excited for a guy like McCluster than they would be Terrence Cody in a market that is losing interest in the football team.

True. There's also more excitement about Berry than there was last year when we were all trying to figure out "WTF is Tyson Jackson?"

Messier
04-25-2010, 07:13 PM
If the Chiefs score 25 ppg they'll win more than 7 games.

Mecca
04-25-2010, 07:14 PM
You always have to remember when a guy is making a pick, his job plays in, if Pioli makes Cassel look good then he saves his job for several more years.

tk13
04-25-2010, 07:15 PM
I don't think he cares. If he wanted to create a frenzy he would've drafted a QB. You could draft a tree stump with a jugs machine attached and if people thought it was going to play under center it'd be qBotF!

Mecca
04-25-2010, 07:16 PM
I don't think he cares. If he wanted to create a frenzy he would've drafted a QB. You could draft a tree stump with a jugs machine attached and if people thought it was going to play under center it'd be qBotF!

That's only on this forum, the majority of this city is scared shitless of drafting a QB.

milkman
04-25-2010, 07:18 PM
I don't think he cares. If he wanted to create a frenzy he would've drafted a QB. You could draft a tree stump with a jugs machine attached and if people thought it was going to play under center it'd be qBotF!

I'm not sure that I agree with the premise of the article, but I think there are enough fans that believe the problem with Cassel are solely the fault of the O-Line and the recievers to believe that getting players to improve those aspects will get fans excited about the prospects of the offense.

chiefforlife
04-25-2010, 07:20 PM
Well thought out. I dont agree with all of it but at least it was thought through.

I think selling tickets is very important but winning games sells tickets. Pioli is trying his best to put personnel in place that can win games. It cant all be fixed in an offseason or two. Remember, the franchises we are trying to emulate have had these systems in place for a long time, not just a year and a half.
Every player we drafted was considered a leader if not captain on their team, thats what he means by the "right 53."

I love your passion for the team.

JASONSAUTO
04-25-2010, 07:20 PM
Basically end take is, most fans are far more excited for a guy like McCluster than they would be Terrence Cody in a market that is losing interest in the football team.

you know its funny that you FUCKING SAID THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND OVER that our team just wanted fat fucks and didnt like playmakers and this is a playmakers league. and ilbs are a dime a dozen not playmaker, and remember guys our gm likes line play and fat fucks and its gonna be cody at five or williams or bulaga or a fat fucker because you know our gm loves him some fat fuckers have you seen his wife?

and to cry about getting playmakers now?

wow



just





wow
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Braincase
04-25-2010, 07:20 PM
I'm would've loved to have seen a reliable NT drafted, but it appears as if there weren't any real NT "character" guys in the draft. Maybe Pioli and Haley are thinking "coverage sack" by increasing our skill level in the secondary.

Mecca
04-25-2010, 07:21 PM
I'm not sure that I agree with the premise of the article, but I think there are enough fans that believe the problem with Cassel are solely the fault of the O-Line and the recievers to believe that getting players to improve those aspects will get fans excited about the prospects of the offense.

Yea "Trent Green"

Mecca
04-25-2010, 07:21 PM
I like how Jason has no comprehension of rounds of the draft. Yes I argue against those players in the 1st round, is this really that hard to grasp?

Messier
04-25-2010, 07:22 PM
Some people are getting into that weird, Peterson only cares about a full stadium, area with Pioli.

Pioli wants to save his job, just like Peterson did, and the best way to do that is to win games. Sure Pioli wants Cassel to look good, because if he looks good he's probably playing good, and the Chiefs probably win more. And Pioli isn't even close to having to worry about his job. If the Chiefs keep losing first they'll change coaches, and if they still keep losing they'll probably change again. I'd say Pioli as a few coaching staff changes before Hunt turns on him.

Douche Baggins
04-25-2010, 07:22 PM
If the Chiefs score 25 ppg they'll win more than 7 games.

Pioli Maaaaaaaaaaa! Pioli Maaaaaaaaaaa! Pioli Ma SHUCK DE DAAAAY!

http://i43.tinypic.com/21ajsdf.jpg

*true fans worship*

JASONSAUTO
04-25-2010, 07:24 PM
I like how Jason has no comprehension of rounds of the draft. Yes I argue against those players in the 1st round, is this really that hard to grasp?

i like how you cry about playmakers and say our gm only likes fat fuckers and when we get playmaker types you cry because we could have drafted the fat guy. is the top pick all you have talked about all offseason?


or are you REALLY mad pioli put the clown shoes on you this year?
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Mecca
04-25-2010, 07:26 PM
:facepalm:

I see why OTW has Jason on ignore now, it's like dealing with a child.

Brock
04-25-2010, 07:28 PM
you know its funny that you FUCKING SAID THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND OVER that our team just wanted fat fucks and didnt like playmakers and this is a playmakers league. and ilbs are a dime a dozen not playmaker, and remember guys our gm likes line play and fat fucks and its gonna be cody at five or williams or bulaga or a fat fucker because you know our gm loves him some fat fuckers have you seen his wife? ]

That's true, there's a definite inconsistency in some people's viewpoints. A lot of these guys always say you never draft for need, you draft playmakers, but then when Pioli did that, they are critical because he didn't address immediate needs. IMO, he did exactly what he should do, with the exception of not moving up to steal Jimmy Clausen.

JASONSAUTO
04-25-2010, 07:30 PM
That's true, there's a definite inconsistency in some people's viewpoints. A lot of these guys always say you never draft for need, you draft playmakers, but then when Pioli did that, they are critical because he didn't address immediate needs. IMO, he did exactly what he should do, with the exception of not moving up to steal Jimmy Clausen.

thank you. at least some people still have some common sense.
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Mecca
04-25-2010, 07:30 PM
Usually when people say playmakers it means guys that are going to be starters. I'm all for taking the best players but you also have to mix value and need together once you're out of the 1st round.

JASONSAUTO
04-25-2010, 07:31 PM
:facepalm:

I see why OTW has Jason on ignore now, it's like dealing with a child.

why because i remember and call you out when you move the crying points from one extreme to the other?
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DJ's left nut
04-25-2010, 07:32 PM
I think this is exactly what most of us believe he was doing and why we're so damn irritated about it.

Instead of attempting to upgrade an incredibly limited QB, he simply used very high draft picks designed to make this shockingly poor QB look moderately competent.

It was the absolute worst case scenario for the long-term health of the Chiefs. A lot of us were concerned that the Chiefs would again forego the QB position and the addition of Weis would make Cassel look average enough that, when combined with an easy schedule, KC would win 6-8 games and the QBOTF hunt would be considered over.

That would've actually been a dream scenario compared to what happened. Rather than forego the QB position and rely on Weis to improve the offense while strengthening the defense, he actually pissed on the defense and went all-in on options expressly designed to make his lousy QB look better.

Consequently, Cassel will bubble screen and swing pass his statistics into mediocrity and we'll get 5 years of the Cassel regime with loads of 8 win seasons and nary a playoff victory to show for it.

I'm disappointed with the draft itself, but I'm absolutely crushed by what it portends going forward. Cassel is here until 2014 - time to face the horror, folks.

Mecca
04-25-2010, 07:34 PM
I think this is exactly what most of us believe he was doing and why we're so damn irritated about it.

Instead of attempting to upgrade an incredibly limited QB, he simply used very high draft picks designed to make this shockingly poor QB look moderately competent.

It was the absolute worst case scenario for the long-term health of the Chiefs. A lot of us were concerned that the Chiefs would again forego the QB position and the addition of Weis would make Cassel look average enough that, when combined with an easy schedule, KC would win 6-8 games and the QBOTF hunt would be considered over.

That would've actually been a dream scenario compared to what happened. Rather than forego the QB position and rely on Weis to improve the offense while strengthening the defense, he actually pissed on the defense and went all-in on options expressly designed to make his lousy QB look better.

Consequently, Cassel will bubble screen and swing pass his statistics into mediocrity and we'll get 5 years of the Cassel regime with loads of 8 win seasons and nary a playoff victory to show for it.

I'm disappointed with the draft itself, but I'm absolutely crushed by what it portends going forward. Cassel is here until 2014 - time to face the horror, folks.

Bingo, that sums up my thoughts.

JASONSAUTO
04-25-2010, 07:35 PM
Usually when people say playmakers it means guys that are going to be starters. I'm all for taking the best players but you also have to mix value and need together once you're out of the 1st round.

bullshit. people say playmakerd about players that have the ability to change a game every time they touch the ball. players that make coaches find ways to geg them the ball. players that make opposing coaches adjust to them.

like mccluster. and arenas. and berry.

wasnt going to be kindle on one leg. or an ilb.
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Mecca
04-25-2010, 07:36 PM
I'd love to know when Arenas became this superstar playmaker, cause he can return?

If you want that you can just use a 5 on Jacoby Ford who is every bit the returner.

T-post Tom
04-25-2010, 07:38 PM
Some people are getting into that weird, Peterson only cares about a full stadium, area with Pioli.

Pioli wants to save his job, just like Peterson did, and the best way to do that is to win games.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8894/kaneklapqo6.gif

JASONSAUTO
04-25-2010, 07:38 PM
I'd love to know when Arenas became this superstar playmaker, cause he can return?

If you want that you can just use a 5 on Jacoby Ford who is every bit the returner.

lets see he was 11 yards from the nxaa record iirc, and the best blitzing cb in tbe draft.

sacks and kr tds arent what playmakers do i guess
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Mecca
04-25-2010, 07:42 PM
So our CB is a better sack artist than our LB's now?

Look I want to be clear, I'm not saying these guys are awful and won't contribute. I'm saying I'm not a fan of using 2nd round picks on luxury players that may nicely fill roles while we desperately need starters.

If we were a playoff team and took these guys, I think that'd be ok, we're a team that needs guys who play 3 downs or fill important positions.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-25-2010, 07:43 PM
That's true, there's a definite inconsistency in some people's viewpoints. A lot of these guys always say you never draft for need, you draft playmakers, but then when Pioli did that, they are critical because he didn't address immediate needs. IMO, he did exactly what he should do, with the exception of not moving up to steal Jimmy Clausen.

I would totally agree with every oz. of this post had they gotten a #1 or 2 WR or CB. Instead they got a slot receiver and a nickel back.

We'll see how it plays out, I mean, who knows? Maybe these guys are on the field for over half the game like some people are saying. If that's the case, and they produce, this draft was full of win.

Brock
04-25-2010, 07:43 PM
So our CB is a better sack artist than our LB's now?

Look I want to be clear, I'm not saying these guys are awful and won't contribute. I'm saying I'm not a fan of using 2nd round picks on luxury players that may nicely fill roles while we desperately need starters.

If we were a playoff team and took these guys, I think that'd be ok, we're a team that needs guys who play 3 downs or fill important positions.

Would you have been okay with drafting Spiller in the first round if Berry wasn't there?

DJ's left nut
04-25-2010, 07:44 PM
Some people are getting into that weird, Peterson only cares about a full stadium, area with Pioli.

Pioli wants to save his job, just like Peterson did, and the best way to do that is to win games.

Not true, or at the very least, not nuanced enough.

The best way to save your job is to never be terrible. You don't have to be a championship contender, just don't be awful.

No amount of 8-8 seasons were ever going to get Peterson fired. Hell, he could've gone 6-10 for another decade, IMO, because the parking lot would have stayed full.

It's that mentality that led to Peterson never taking a first round QB. Because if Trezell Jenkins busts, you don't get fired.

It's why I'm incredibly impressed by Billy Devany right now. If the Rams draft Suh and he busts, Devany wouldn't have gotten the axe for it. At the same time, he wouldn't have been appreciably closer to a championship, IMO.

Meanwhile, if Bradford busts, Devany's out on the street. Devany made a bold move because it was the best chance he had to build a true champion, but the best move to save his job would've been Suh.

Pioli and his "I don't like risk picks" clearly falls into the Carl Peterson mold far more than he falls into the Billy Devany mold.

And if I had to guess which of these teams turns around sooner, I'd take the Rams in a heartbeat and they were in far worse shape than KC was 2 years ago.

Mecca
04-25-2010, 07:45 PM
No not really, I'm about as big of a fan of Spiller as a person can be and even I'd say ehh, great player but we're a pretty bad team to be doing that.

And that's from me one of the guys who thought CJ Spiller was one of the 5 best players in the draft.

I'd still consider it pretty questionable.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 07:45 PM
Would you have been okay with drafting Spiller in the first round if Berry wasn't there?

Brock, I 100% agree with this. While Spiller is a much better player, given that Charles is already here, Spiller's role wouldn't be all that different from McCluster's. And yet there were tons of people pimping Spiller because he was a playmaker, and a lot of those same people are dragging McCluster in the mud because he's a role playing playmaker.

Pawmnower
04-25-2010, 07:46 PM
Pioli didn't draft Gerhardt. Hes a fucking diot.

Messier
04-25-2010, 07:46 PM
Pioli Maaaaaaaaaaa! Pioli Maaaaaaaaaaa! Pioli Ma SHUCK DE DAAAAY!

http://i43.tinypic.com/21ajsdf.jpg

*true fans worship*

No just math worship Short-round.

Mecca
04-25-2010, 07:47 PM
Brock, I 100% agree with this. While Spiller is a much better player, given that Charles is already here, Spiller's role wouldn't be all that different from McCluster's. And yet there were tons of people pimping Spiller because he was a playmaker, and a lot of those same people are dragging McCluster in the mud because he's a role playing playmaker.

The only time Spiller really got talked about was in a "what do you do in this scenario" situation, he was never ever the 1st option.

Pawmnower
04-25-2010, 07:49 PM
The only time Spiller really got talked about was in a "what do you do in this scenario" situation, he was never ever the 1st option.

gerhardt is better and more than a rollplayer fuckface

DaFace
04-25-2010, 07:50 PM
gerhardt is better and more than a rollplayer fuckface

You're treading on thin ground. Just thought I'd let you know.

JASONSAUTO
04-25-2010, 07:53 PM
So our CB is a better sack artist than our LB's now?

Look I want to be clear, I'm not saying these guys are awful and won't contribute. I'm saying I'm not a fan of using 2nd round picks on luxury players that may nicely fill roles while we desperately need starters.

If we were a playoff team and took these guys, I think that'd be ok, we're a team that needs guys who play 3 downs or fill important positions.

boy i cant search posts from the phone but im pretty sure you said they were both slow short and untalented. ill find out in the morning so you have a pretty good headstart on edits.
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LetsSignRussell
04-25-2010, 07:54 PM
You're treading on thin ground. Just thought I'd let you know.

I've been there before. I have brought myself back to be a productive memeber of chiefsplanet. :harumph:

Mecca
04-25-2010, 07:55 PM
They are both short..I'll cut McCluster a slight break on his combine 40, Arenas has ok speed and very poor size for his position which is why he's a nickel CB.

They're role players, they may end up very good role players, but role players none the less.

DaFace
04-25-2010, 07:56 PM
I've been there before. I have brought myself back to be a productive memeber of chiefsplanet. :harumph:

The issue here isn't necessarily the insults themselves.

Brock
04-25-2010, 07:57 PM
Some dumbass dupe who thinks he's funny. FAIL

Ebolapox
04-25-2010, 07:57 PM
You're treading on thin ground. Just thought I'd let you know.

did his other account get banned?

Ebolapox
04-25-2010, 07:58 PM
I've been there before. I have brought myself back to be a productive memeber of chiefsplanet. :harumph:

if this isn't a dupe, there are no dupes on the planet.

DaFace
04-25-2010, 07:59 PM
did his other account get banned?

Not yet.

T-post Tom
04-25-2010, 07:59 PM
Not true, or at the very least, not nuanced enough.

The best way to save your job is to never be terrible. You don't have to be a championship contender, just don't be awful.

No amount of 8-8 seasons were ever going to get Peterson fired. Hell, he could've gone 6-10 for another decade, IMO, because the parking lot would have stayed full.

It's that mentality that led to Peterson never taking a first round QB. Because if Trezell Jenkins busts, you don't get fired.

It's why I'm incredibly impressed by Billy Devany right now. If the Rams draft Suh and he busts, Devany wouldn't have gotten the axe for it. At the same time, he wouldn't have been appreciably closer to a championship, IMO.

Meanwhile, if Bradford busts, Devany's out on the street. Devany made a bold move because it was the best chance he had to build a true champion, but the best move to save his job would've been Suh.

Pioli and his "I don't like risk picks" clearly falls into the Carl Peterson mold far more than he falls into the Billy Devany mold.

And if I had to guess which of these teams turns around sooner, I'd take the Rams in a heartbeat and they were in far worse shape than KC was 2 years ago.

I couldn't disagree with this more. Nothing personal, but you are WAY off base here. Pioli does NOT fall anywhere in the Carl Peterson mold. Come on bro, we could knit Jason Whitlock a sweater with all that fuzzy logic in your post.

Ebolapox
04-25-2010, 08:03 PM
it's plausible, which is thoroughly depressing when you really wrap your mind around it.

DJ's left nut
04-25-2010, 08:04 PM
I couldn't disagree with this more. Nothing personal, but you are WAY off base here. Pioli does NOT fall anywhere in the Carl Peterson mold. Come on bro, we could knit Jason Whitlock a sweater with all that fuzzy logic in your post.

Then by all means - do so.

I've asked many times for someone to give me a viable distinction between Pioli's approach and Carl's and all anyone ever says is "Pioli isn't Carl Peterson". Please - enlighten me.

Pioli has spent 2 seasons bringing in older players to fill holes (do I need to give examples?), he's traded for another teams marginally talented backup QB (Grbac, Bono, even Green) rather than draft his own and put his job on the line. His drafts have been full of reach picks and his coaching staffs are full of cronies and re-treads. His ego has kept him from admitting some mistakes and has compelled him to make others. Isn't this an absolutely perfect synopsis of the Peterson regime?

Please show me how Pioli differs to any appreciable degree from Carl Peterson.

Douche Baggins
04-25-2010, 08:10 PM
Carl typically let his coaches have their say in the draft. I think it will be the other way around under Pioli.

LetsSignRussell
04-25-2010, 08:14 PM
gochiefs is on fire tonight

Messier
04-25-2010, 08:18 PM
Then by all means - do so.

I've asked many times for someone to give me a viable distinction between Pioli's approach and Carl's and all anyone ever says is "Pioli isn't Carl Peterson". Please - enlighten me.

Pioli has spent 2 seasons bringing in older players to fill holes (do I need to give examples?), he's traded for another teams marginally talented backup QB (Grbac, Bono, even Green) rather than draft his own and put his job on the line, his drafts have been full of reach picks and his coaching staffs are full of cronies and re-treads.

Please show me how Pioli differs to any appreciable degree from Carl Peterson.

You're listing very general things that many teams do. Carroll just brought in every other USC played to his team in Seattle. GMs and coaches everywhere bring in people they're comfortable with and have worked with before. Name me a team that doesn't have some veterans scattered through the roster, oh yeah, the only one I can think of was the Chiefs from Herms last year.

And, you might disagree but I'm pretty happy with the coach re-treads they're bringing in.

OnTheWarpath58
04-25-2010, 08:18 PM
Can you imagine the excitement next offseason if people start saying "all we need is a few upgrades on defense and we'll be in the playoffs!"

Funny, because this could have been argued the day before the draft.

Now, a day after, it can still be argued.

Berry can't do it by himself.

OnTheWarpath58
04-25-2010, 08:19 PM
I think this is exactly what most of us believe he was doing and why we're so damn irritated about it.

Instead of attempting to upgrade an incredibly limited QB, he simply used very high draft picks designed to make this shockingly poor QB look moderately competent.

It was the absolute worst case scenario for the long-term health of the Chiefs. A lot of us were concerned that the Chiefs would again forego the QB position and the addition of Weis would make Cassel look average enough that, when combined with an easy schedule, KC would win 6-8 games and the QBOTF hunt would be considered over.

That would've actually been a dream scenario compared to what happened. Rather than forego the QB position and rely on Weis to improve the offense while strengthening the defense, he actually pissed on the defense and went all-in on options expressly designed to make his lousy QB look better.

Consequently, Cassel will bubble screen and swing pass his statistics into mediocrity and we'll get 5 years of the Cassel regime with loads of 8 win seasons and nary a playoff victory to show for it.

I'm disappointed with the draft itself, but I'm absolutely crushed by what it portends going forward. Cassel is here until 2014 - time to face the horror, folks.

Spot on.

DJ's left nut
04-25-2010, 08:29 PM
You're listing very general things that many teams do. Carroll just brought in every other USC played to his team in Seattle. GMs and coaches everywhere bring in people they're comfortable with and have worked with before. Name me a team that doesn't have some veterans scattered through the roster, oh yeah, the only one I can think of was the Chiefs from Herms last year.

And, you might disagree but I'm pretty happy with the coach re-treads they're bringing in.

Okay, so get into specifics.

Perhaps most GMs do a lot of the same things, but surely you can cite some distinctions.

Around these parts, Carl Peterson is the devil. Get as specific as you need to in order to explain to me how Scott Pioli is different from Carl Peterson.

I'd probably stop short of "Pioli traded for a QB named Matt, Peterson traded for a QB named Elvis, etc..." but otherwise, go nuts.

Unless you're claiming that all GMs are basically the same animal, there has to be some meaningful distinctions between the GMs. From the arrogance, to the FA approach, the the draft, to how he handles the most important position on the field -- these two guys are carbon copies of each other. The only real difference I can see is that Pioli doesn't outwardly care about what the fans/media thinks (though some of his actions, such as the sign on the wall in the lockerroom, certainly suggests otherwise).

C'mon folks - somebody provide me with a counter-point. Give me some substance and I'll gladly listen.

Tuckdaddy
04-25-2010, 08:32 PM
Great post and dead on target. Could be an exciting year.

dallaschiefsfan
04-25-2010, 08:33 PM
They are both short..I'll cut McCluster a slight break on his combine 40, Arenas has ok speed and very poor size for his position which is why he's a nickel CB.

They're role players, they may end up very good role players, but role players none the less.

I'm not so sure I have a problem with this. It's a copycat league and we've copied our share through the years...the move to the 34 being the latest. However, this draft might actually be considered innovative down the line. This is why I'm good with our nickle being our best rusher on 3rd down. It probably makes Hali a little better as well. Who cares who's the best rusher? As long as the QB of the opposing team is on his back.

Besides, someone is always ahead of the curve, doing something different. Sometimes it's the run-n-shoot and it flames out. Sometimes it's the zone bltiz that was hot for so many years. This might be a different approach, but I'm willing to see how it plays. I know it's hard to believe, but there might be another approach at work here besides making Cassel look good. I don't pretend to know what that is...but they obviously didn't do what they did to lose more games.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 08:38 PM
Okay, so get into specifics.

Perhaps most GMs do a lot of the same things, but surely you can cite some distinctions.

Around these parts, Carl Peterson is the devil. Get as specific as you need to in order to explain to me how Scott Pioli is different from Carl Peterson.

I'd probably stop short of "Pioli traded for a QB named Matt, Peterson traded for a QB named Elvis, etc..." but otherwise, go nuts.

Unless you're claiming that all GMs are basically the same animal, there has to be some meaningful distinctions between the GMs. From the arrogance, to the FA approach, the the draft, to how he handles the most important position on the field -- these two guys are carbon copies of each other. The only real difference I can see is that Pioli doesn't outwardly care about what the fans/media thinks (though some of his actions, such as the sign on the wall in the lockerroom, certainly suggests otherwise).

C'mon folks - somebody provide me with a counter-point. Give me some substance and I'll gladly listen.

I think gochiefs hit it on the head. Peterson had a reputation for relying more on coaches/tree guys than on their scouts. I think Sims was recommended heavily by Bunting, and I still have to think Siavii was picked b/c of Gunther more than anything. I think it does say a lot that the Chiefs passed on both Clausen and Golden Tate.

Take that as a positive or negative. I've always believed that the coaches should be the ones working with the GM to determine type of player and that the scouts should be the ones recommending the pick. Coaches, even a college coach like Weis, just don't have the frame of reference to understand how Tate compares, for example, to Benn or McCluster.

I also think Peterson was the KING of drafting based on need rather than BPA. How many years in a row did we draft DTs? Apart from LJ, before Kuharich came on board, we were almost exclusively a needs-based drafting team. We got a little better in 2006 and 2007. In 2008, we changed things around. We drafted Charles, even though we had LJ. We drafted Cottam, even though we had Gonzalez. We drafted Dajuan Morgan, even though we had Pollard and Page. We drafted Albert, even though we had McIntosh.

I thought Kuharich really started to get it right toward the end. I'm shocked he still doesn't have a job.

DJ's left nut
04-25-2010, 08:50 PM
I think gochiefs hit it on the head. Peterson had a reputation for relying more on coaches/tree guys than on their scouts. I think Sims was recommended heavily by Bunting, and I still have to think Siavii was picked b/c of Gunther more than anything. I think it does say a lot that the Chiefs passed on both Clausen and Golden Tate.

Take that as a positive or negative. I've always believed that the coaches should be the ones working with the GM to determine type of player and that the scouts should be the ones recommending the pick. Coaches, even a college coach like Weis, just don't have the frame of reference to understand how Tate compares, for example, to Benn or McCluster.

I also think Peterson was the KING of drafting based on need rather than BPA. How many years in a row did we draft DTs? Apart from LJ, before Kuharich came on board, we were almost exclusively a needs-based drafting team. We got a little better in 2006 and 2007. In 2008, we changed things around. We drafted Charles, even though we had LJ. We drafted Cottam, even though we had Gonzalez. We drafted Dajuan Morgan, even though we had Pollard and Page. We drafted Albert, even though we had McIntosh.

I thought Kuharich really started to get it right toward the end. I'm shocked he still doesn't have a job.

You say that Peterson relied on Bunting's input when he made the Sims pick -- how many times did you hear the draftniks talk about how important the conversations Pioli had with Monte Kiffin were? If you don't recall it, you must not have been listening to the NFL Network's coverage, because they made a very big deal of it. Scott Pioli absolutely worked with former coaches, etc... in making his picks. I don't fault him for that, I'm simply pointing out that I believe you've provided a false distintion.

As for the coach's input - Honestly, I thought GoChiefs was being sarcastic.

How pissed off and for how long was Dick Vermiel when Peterson took Larry Johnson instead of getting him help for the defense in a season where we desperately needed some defensive help?

When Marty was there, Carl ceded a lot of control to Marty because that was a pre-requisite to his hiring. However, as soon as Marty walked, Carl seized control of the organization.

I suppose I should make a distinction -- MartyCarl (i.e. good Carl) and Post-Marty Carl (i.e. Bad Carl). Unfortunately, when I say Pioli reminds me a lot of Carl, I'm referring to 'Bad Carl' -- the one that became a dictator when Marty left a power vaccum and drove the organization into a mountain.

Douche Baggins
04-25-2010, 08:53 PM
The LJ pick is an example of what I'm talking about.

That was a departure from the norm for the Chiefs under Peterson. He overruled Vermeil, who wanted to draft Tyler Brayton.

When Gunther was HC the Chiefs drafted SlyMo and Bartee and all these physical specimens because that was what Gunther had a hard-on for...

L.A. Chieffan
04-25-2010, 08:56 PM
You know what sells tickets?

Winning.

LaChapelle
04-25-2010, 08:58 PM
If these additions can make Castle look good this year
then they can do the same for a draft pick next year

RedThat
04-25-2010, 09:05 PM
So our CB is a better sack artist than our LB's now?

Arenas is an outstanding blitzer.

Don't be surprised if the Chiefs use him in nickel packages where he is asked to blitz. Not saying he is a better sack artist than Hali, but he will be a weapon.

*Our passrush will improve due to his contributions in blitzing alone

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 09:10 PM
You say that Peterson relied on Bunting's input when he made the Sims pick -- how many times did you hear the draftniks talk about how important the conversations Pioli had with Monte Kiffin were? If you don't recall it, you must not have been listening to the NFL Network's coverage, because they made a very big deal of it. Scott Pioli absolutely worked with former coaches, etc... in making his picks. I don't fault him for that, I'm simply pointing out that I believe you've provided a false distintion.
There's a major distinction. Bunting was Peterson's buddy. And I remember reading an ESPN Insider report years back (sorry to say, I don't have the link because it's really old) that Lynn Stiles had a reputation for not watching film, overpowering his scouts in the war room, and relying more on the advice of coaches he knew and liked. Pioli, like any GM, talks to coaches as an added piece of due diligence. When Lynn Stiles was head of Personnel, he relied almost exclusively on it. That's the distinction. When Kuharich took over, this didn't seem to be nearly as much of a problem.

As for the coach's input - Honestly, I thought GoChiefs was being sarcastic.
I think it's a good point, actually. It sounds like Pioli didn't get Weis the guy he begged for. Vermeil usually got the guys he wanted.

How pissed off and for how long was Dick Vermiel when Peterson took Larry Johnson instead of getting him help for the defense in a season where we desperately needed some defensive help?
Like I said, it was the exception, not the rule. Vermeil almost always got his way. I remember in St. Louis, he begged to keep Tony Banks and he was deadset against bringing in Marshall Faulk and Mike Martz. The Front office went over Vermeil's head and made those moves anyway. Peterson never had the stones to make those kinds of moves. And it led to tree hirings (Gun, Vermeil, Herm), it led to ineffective coordinators staying in their jobs forever, it led to coaches calling shots in the war room. For some weird reason, when Herm came in, he stopped listening.

When Marty was there, Carl ceded a lot of control to Marty because that was a pre-requisite to his hiring. However, as soon as Marty walked, Carl seized control of the organization.

I suppose I should make a distinction -- MartyCarl (i.e. good Carl) and Post-Marty Carl (i.e. Bad Carl). Unfortunately, when I say Pioli reminds me a lot of Carl, I'm referring to 'Bad Carl' -- the one that became a dictator when Marty left a power vaccum and drove the organization into a mountain.
Given that Marty has built a world-class personnel group everywhere he's been, makes you wonder if Carl gets too much credit for personnel decisions made during that time. Maybe he just wasn't that good in the first place. Then again, maybe Pioli is just a product of Belichick. But in general, there are some things I like. I think Pioli places much higher value on scouting than Peterson did. I think the whole personnel process seems a lot more thorough. And I never really got the sense that Peterson was a huge personnel guy. I think Pioli is--he doesn't seem to even like the business side of football as much as he likes the player side.

Now, I can see loyalty issues maybe becoming a problem. And jamming a specific culture into the organization, even if maybe Haley isn't on board with it (e.g. running a Romeo 3-4). But it sounds, to me, like Pioli's approach to personnel is a lot more thorough. Maybe that's just because we're at more of an information age. Who knows.

Christofire
04-25-2010, 09:15 PM
The longer our offense is on the field, the less our defense is. 'Nuff said.

RedThat
04-25-2010, 09:15 PM
Good article, but Im sorry I don't buy into that statement offense sells tickets and defense wins championships.

My opinion is, if you continually lose, and your team is boring as heck, which is the case for the Chiefs, you're going to lose fans.

If you want to attract fans and keep their interest, then build an exciting team and WIN games. Regardless of whether your team has a good defense or offense.

Defense alone doesn't WIN championships. you know what wins championships? Strong, sound, well balanced teams. Organizations that have good ownership and management from top to bottom that are capable of building a winner. This is just common sense.

DJ's left nut
04-25-2010, 09:28 PM
It does appear that Pioli is presently taking a more active role in personnel decisions.

At the same time, it also appears that he installed a puppet HC in order to facilitate said control.

I'm not so sure I see that as a positive development; I'd rather the HC and coordinators have pretty significant say in roster construction, but I asked for a distinction and I guess that's one.

|Zach|
04-25-2010, 09:30 PM
It does appear that Pioli is presently taking a more active role in personnel decisions.

At the same time, it also appears that he installed a puppet HC in order to facilitate said control.

I'm not so sure I see that as a positive development; I'd rather the HC and coordinators have pretty significant say in roster construction, but I asked for a distinction and I guess that's one.

We don't know anything about that dynamic.

warpaint*
04-25-2010, 09:33 PM
So our CB is a better sack artist than our LB's now?

Look I want to be clear, I'm not saying these guys are awful and won't contribute. I'm saying I'm not a fan of using 2nd round picks on luxury players that may nicely fill roles while we desperately need starters.

If we were a playoff team and took these guys, I think that'd be ok, we're a team that needs guys who play 3 downs or fill important positions.

That pretty much sums up my feelings.

I like McCluster a lot for example and think he'll do well in his role in the pros but we have bigger needs. Same goes for Arenas.

milkman
04-25-2010, 09:34 PM
Arenas is an outstanding blitzer.

Don't be surprised if the Chiefs use him in nickel packages where he is asked to blitz. Not saying he is a better sack artist than Hali, but he will be a weapon.

*Our passrush will improve due to his contributions in blitzing alone

I'm sorry, you don't draft a corner for his blitzing skills.

MoreLemonPledge
04-25-2010, 09:38 PM
ONLY DEFENSE CAN GET YOU TO THE SUPERBOWL

http://imgsrv.knx1070.com/image/DbGraphic/201002/1491291.jpg?1265602740

http://www.achievement.org/achievers/man0/large/man0-004.jpg

DJ's left nut
04-25-2010, 09:40 PM
We don't know anything about that dynamic.

I'm operating under the presumption that Chiefszilla has provided me with a true distinction. Assuming for the sake of argument that he is, I am saying that I'm not sure I'm happy about it.

If we're wrong and Pioli really does defer heavily to his coordinators (there are conflicting stories both ways), then it would seem that Peterson and Pioli are even more similar.

Douche Baggins
04-25-2010, 09:46 PM
ONLY DEFENSE CAN GET YOU TO THE SUPERBOWL


How well did the Saints' defense play in the postseason?

Answer: very well.

How well did the Colts' defense play in the postseason?

Answer: extremely well.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 09:48 PM
I'm operating under the presumption that Chiefszilla has provided me with a true distinction. Assuming for the sake of argument that he is, I am saying that I'm not sure I'm happy about it.

If we're wrong and Pioli really does defer heavily to his coordinators (there are conflicting stories both ways), then it would seem that Peterson and Pioli are even more similar.

That's understandable.

The Patriot Way is built around Belichick providing input on who he wants and having utmost faith in Pioli to get him the guys he wants. It's not like Vermeil, where he not only dictated the type of player, but also exactly who the Chiefs should take. I don't know that I really recall Belichick demanding certain players be drafted. Based on the Patriot Way, it sounds like Pioli listens to his coaches a lot about what they want, but not on who they want.

But what happens when you replace "Belichick" with "Haley." YOu're right, something to worry about. And we can only hope Weis/Romeo are involved. But they're not head coaches. I don't mind Haley, but I think this could be a big problem.

MoreLemonPledge
04-25-2010, 09:50 PM
How well did the Saints' defense play in the postseason?

Answer: very well.

How well did the Colts' defense play in the postseason?

Answer: extremely well.

So then in today's NFL you must be good at both to win a championship. The "Defense Wins Championships" mantra is outdated.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-25-2010, 09:51 PM
Or maybe he is thinking that the Chiefs have a ton of first round picks in the front seven and that a new coach should be able to get more out of them.

OnTheWarpath58
04-25-2010, 09:52 PM
So then in today's NFL you must be good at both to win a championship. The "Defense Wins Championships" mantra is outdated.

Please list all SB winners that ranked lower than 16th in points allowed.

Douche Baggins
04-25-2010, 09:52 PM
So then in today's NFL you must be good at both to win a championship. The "Defense Wins Championships" mantra is outdated.

It's really not important to the OP.

OnTheWarpath58
04-25-2010, 09:52 PM
Or maybe he is thinking that the Chiefs have a ton of first round picks in the front seven and that a new coach should be able to get more out of them.

A ton?

How about two?

DJ is going on his what, sixth year? He is what he is.

MoreLemonPledge
04-25-2010, 09:57 PM
Please list all SB winners that ranked lower than 16th in points allowed.

I don't care to go through a freaking list. What I do know is that 4 of the last 6 teams to go to the Superbowl (Saints, Colts, Cardinals, and Patriots) were top 5 offenses, if not #1. It is an offensive league now.

And GoChiefs, I know that's not the point. I'm just sick of hearing that saying.

chiefzilla1501
04-25-2010, 10:12 PM
Please list all SB winners that ranked lower than 16th in points allowed.

For me, the important point is why it has to happen today. It's not like these guys were the last pieces we need for a Super Bowl. They'll help us win a few games today, but not put us over the top.

We improved on pass/run offense and pass defense. Why can't we focus on improving run defense next season? I imagine Wilfork goes on the block. Pioli has many times in the past spent big dollars on pass rushing OLBs.

OnTheWarpath58
04-25-2010, 11:25 PM
For me, the important point is why it has to happen today. It's not like these guys were the last pieces we need for a Super Bowl. They'll help us win a few games today, but not put us over the top.

We improved on pass/run offense and pass defense. Why can't we focus on improving run defense next season? I imagine Wilfork goes on the block. Pioli has many times in the past spent big dollars on pass rushing OLBs.

Ask any coach in this league, and they'll all tell you the same thing.

If you can't stop the run, you won't win many games.

Why were we looking to upgrade positions that weren't really an issue?

There's nothing wrong with our pass defense, other than the fact they have to cover for 7 seconds because we have no pass rush. Is another NCB really going to solve that issue?

Do we really need a slot WR when the QB we have has a hard time getting it to the WR's we already have?

Meanwhile, Jerome Harrison just scored again.

OleMissCub
04-25-2010, 11:32 PM
just curious when you'd be willing to drop the "Clusterfuck" thing. Does he have to get 5 TD's this season to get rid of that from you?

Oh, and this board is the first place I've seen it used in a negative connotation fwiw. The term was used a lot in the SEC this year, but used in the sense of "holy shit, we just got McClusterfucked".

One of the more common jokes amongst other teams fans after Dexter went buckwild on them was to say "I think I just saw Dexter McCluster run past my house". Saw that alot on facebook.

KCrockaholic
04-25-2010, 11:36 PM
"I think I just saw Dexter McCluster run past my house". Saw that alot on facebook.

That was him escaping through the back window after....:evil:

Just playin man.

Woodrow Call
04-25-2010, 11:37 PM
NT and ILB didn't seem too important to a certain Chiefs CP Mock GM I know. I believe he went with a slot guy, a TE, and 2 safeties before addressing either need. ;)
Posted via Mobile Device

HotRoute
04-25-2010, 11:37 PM
man dex is a good dude, i have a similarity with him, he was in a pretty serious car accident that i can relate to at that point in time things slow down and you realize what life has to offer and why it is important to appreciate the little things, best of luck dex and i hope you have a long and prosperous career in KC. here is what im talking about. . . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWsGL1lbmHk

philfree
04-25-2010, 11:38 PM
just curious when you'd be willing to drop the "Cluster****" thing. Does he have to get 5 TD's this season to get rid of that from you?

Oh, and this board is the first place I've seen it used in a negative connotation fwiw. The term was used a lot in the SEC this year, but used in the sense of "holy shit, we just got McCluster****ed".

One of the more common jokes amongst other teams fans after Dexter went buckwild on them was to say "I think I just saw Dexter McCluster run past my house". Saw that alot on facebook.

These guys wear bras on thier heads......:LOL:


PhilFree:arrow:

Douche Baggins
04-25-2010, 11:39 PM
just curious when you'd be willing to drop the "Clusterfuck" thing. Does he have to get 5 TD's this season to get rid of that from you?


As soon as I have a mancrush. Not before.

HotRoute
04-25-2010, 11:39 PM
and here is what pioli is really thinking. everyone of his picks as a GM. . .

2010
1 5 S Eric Berry
2 36 RB Dexter McCluster
2 50 CB Javier Arenas
3 68 G Jon Asamoah
3 93 TE Tony Moeaki
5 136 S Kendrick Lewis
5 142 LB Cameron Sheffield

2009
1 DE Tyson Jackson
3 DT Alex Magee
4 CB Donald Washington
5 OL Colin Brown
6 WR Quinten Lawrence
7 RB Javarris Williams
7 TE Jake O'Connell
7 K Ryan Succop

CosmicPal
04-25-2010, 11:44 PM
Ask any coach in this league, and they'll all tell you the same thing.

If you can't stop the run, you won't win many games.

Why were we looking to upgrade positions that weren't really an issue?

There's nothing wrong with our pass defense, other than the fact they have to cover for 7 seconds because we have no pass rush. Is another NCB really going to solve that issue?

Do we really need a slot WR when the QB we have has a hard time getting it to the WR's we already have?

Meanwhile, Jerome Harrison just scored again.

Dude...this gets old...seriously.

Who was there in the second round that would have solved our atrocious defensive line? Huh? You have a magical player that would've solved our defensive woes that wouldn't be a reach that would fit the Chiefs and what they want to do?

Cody? The fat, slob who would be nothing more than a part-timer on the field. A person with weight and weight room issues.

Kindle? An outside LB with a serious knee issue that might keep him from playing more than a couple of years.

Denver's front 7 needed some serious help too, but look what they did in their draft this year- they failed to address their front 7 needs too and instead opted to replace Marshall and Cutler with their first two picks and a slew of offensive players in the following rounds.

We get a player with dynamic playmaking ability and you continue to wreck logic with the 'we should've drafted defense' crap.

You have absolutely no idea how McCluster will pan out and he just might rock your fucking world. From the looks of it, he sure looks like it. And I'll take that over a part-time fat slob any day.

OleMissCub
04-25-2010, 11:44 PM
As soon as I have a mancrush. Not before.

lol, it'll come hopefully. His very first game as a true freshman was against Memphis in 2006 and that was the beginning of my love affair. He touched the ball 10 times and had 146 yds and a TD.

Otter
04-25-2010, 11:46 PM
That was one of your cooler posts GoChiefs.

I'm looking for improvement this year and start seeking trophies next year. Three seasons isn't too long to ask to clean up after "I'm all in hell or high water" Dick Vermeil and "I can't believe you hired me" Herman.

I really like the new guys in charge and the direction they're taking. It's been many years since I've been able to say that and I'm going to enjoy the show.

KCrockaholic
04-25-2010, 11:47 PM
I already have my mancrush. Eric Berry. I like McCluster too, but Berry is my man.

philfree
04-25-2010, 11:48 PM
Who was there in the second round that would have solved our atrocious defensive line? Huh? You have a magical player that would've solved our defensive woes that wouldn't be a reach that would fit the Chiefs and what they want to do?

Sergio Kindle! He would hae gotten us a bunch more wins......In two years after he recovers from his knee surgery!

PhilFree:arrow:

Pitt Gorilla
04-25-2010, 11:49 PM
This makes a ton of sense given that we took a safety with the 5th overall pick in the draft and a corner in the second.

Douche Baggins
04-25-2010, 11:54 PM
This makes a ton of sense given that we took a safety with the 5th overall pick in the draft and a corner in the second.

OK, so he's just a buffoon, I guess.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 12:02 AM
Dude...this gets old...seriously.

Who was there in the second round that would have solved our atrocious defensive line?

What is getting old is your inability to read people's posts.

I'm pretty sure I've never limited those two picks to defensive linemen.

Matter of fact, I've talked about the entire front 7. NT, ILB and pass rusher.

And I've listed no fewer than 6 players that would have filled those needs, fit our system, and were the BPA's at the time of the picks.

It's not my fault you read what you want to read.

philfree
04-26-2010, 12:05 AM
What is getting old is your inability to read people's posts.

I'm pretty sure I've never limited those two picks to defensive linemen.

Matter of fact, I've talked about the entire front 7. NT, ILB and pass rusher.

And I've listed no fewer than 6 players that would have filled those needs, fit our system, and were the BPA's at the time of the picks.

It's not my fault you read what you want to read.



Well do us a favor and list that stuff again. Please!? I missed it and I bet I'm not the only one.


PhilFree:arrow:
~McCluster~

Mecca
04-26-2010, 12:16 AM
I have a newsflash, all NT's are big fat ass slobs, it's required to have one to run the fucking defense.

Some of you guys along with our coach, Richard Simmons need to get over this irrational dislike of fat lazy guys, we need one to properly run the damn defense.

HotRoute
04-26-2010, 12:17 AM
we have to worry about the guys that we picked not the guys that we missed on, the truth is we dont have to watch the players that were picked by other teams we have to watch the ones that pioli picked. if we worried about every player that got away we would have a very hard time

teedubya
04-26-2010, 12:24 AM
I'm most pissed that he hasn't jockeyed for position and picked up extra draft picks like they are so good at in New England.

The only draft day trade that Pioli has made, has been giving up a pick to MOVE UP for a TE. And he has done it BOTH DRAFTS

Jesus.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 12:26 AM
I'm most pissed that he hasn't jockeyed for position and picked up extra draft picks like they are so good at in New England.

The only draft day trade that Pioli has made, has been giving up a pick to MOVE UP for a TE. And he has done it BOTH DRAFTS

Jesus.

We love TE's here man!

In all actuality I hope the players are good I don't like watching shitty football, the problem is with our front 7 looking like it does I'm not sure how many more games we can win even if everyone of these guys is better than expected.

OleMissCub
04-26-2010, 12:28 AM
Having watched Cody play for the last couple of years, I think he is a beast but I bet he won't last 4 seasons.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 12:30 AM
Having watched Cody play for the last couple of years, I think he is a beast but I bet he won't last 4 seasons.

Nah he'll be around awhile, he went to Baltimore, there's something about that team. Ray Lewis will motivate his big ass.

philfree
04-26-2010, 12:43 AM
Nah he'll be around awhile, he went to Baltimore, there's something about that team. Ray Lewis will motivate his big ass.

Ray Ray won't be around in four years...He's old already. He's runnin'n fumes!




PhilFree:arrow:

Mecca
04-26-2010, 12:45 AM
They keep puttin those huge fat asses in front of him he'll keep stickin around.

kysirsoze
04-26-2010, 02:40 AM
The whole "he traded for a QB just like Carl" point is silly to me. The idea there being his job is not tied to the success of the QB because he didn't draft him. Well, first of all he did, at NE. And on top of that, he brought him over and got him paid a shit ton of money. I don't think Devany is any more tied to Bradford than Pioli is to Cassel.

BossChief
04-26-2010, 03:46 AM
And if I had to guess which of these teams turns around sooner, I'd take the Rams in a heartbeat and they were in far worse shape than KC was 2 years ago. We got ONE!!!

I would take every position group of ours over theirs every day of the week and twice on sundays (except quarterback)

I have a newsflash, all NT's are big fat ass slobs, it's required to have one to run the fucking defense.

Some of you guys along with our coach, Richard Simmons need to get over this irrational dislike of fat lazy guys, we need one to properly run the damn defense.
this isnt right man and let me show you why.

The Jets are a good example because their defense is somewhat similar to ours. They thought they had to have a huge monster in the middle (Big Kris, 370+) but when he went down after 6 games, the team maintained the leagues top defensive unit with a 320 pound nose tackle the rest of the way (Sione Pouha) I think that Dorsey could do everything he did and then some.

Another good example is Baltimore. They drafted a monster nose guard but figured it was best to play him at end to help impact the power running game better and by doing so they put Kelly Gregg there (6' 315 who I think Dorsey could do a similar job as, even better at a similar size) He has performed very well at his duties.

Having an extra 40 or 50 pounds coming with you on every play helps some players, but its not like the job can't be done with a smaller guy that has strengths in the right areas.

I really think they should try Dorsey at the nose and start Magee at RDE, I think that Alex is gonna be pretty fucking good!

healthpellets
04-26-2010, 04:49 AM
we have to worry about the guys that we picked not the guys that we missed on, the truth is we dont have to watch the players that were picked by other teams we have to watch the ones that pioli picked. if we worried about every player that got away we would have a very hard time

sadly, we do have to watch the players we passed on. every sunday. that is, unless you refuse to watch football just because the Chiefs aren't playing.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-26-2010, 05:42 AM
A ton?

How about two?

DJ is going on his what, sixth year? He is what he is.

How about four of the seven. Over half. Dorsey, DJ, TJ, and Hali.

Coach
04-26-2010, 06:00 AM
The LJ pick is an example of what I'm talking about.

That was a departure from the norm for the Chiefs under Peterson. He overruled Vermeil, who wanted to draft Tyler Brayton.

When Gunther was HC the Chiefs drafted SlyMo and Bartee and all these physical specimens because that was what Gunther had a hard-on for...

The thing is though, as shitty as LJ was in terms of his production during the end of his time in KC, Brayton hasn't do much in terms of jack in his career thus far.

Seems like Carl won this part, unfortunately, since LJ, IMHO, at the time, had more production and more value before Herm (and to a degree, LJ himself) ruined LJ.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-26-2010, 06:14 AM
I have a newsflash, all NT's are big fat ass slobs, it's required to have one to run the ****ing defense.

Some of you guys along with our coach, Richard Simmons need to get over this irrational dislike of fat lazy guys, we need one to properly run the damn defense.

You may want to look at the 2001 Pats Super Bowl roster and find the fat slob they needed to run the defense.

They were more of a hybrid that year. They can do that this year if necessary. But, I think that they have enough at NT.

Chiefnj2
04-26-2010, 07:30 AM
The Jets are a good example because their defense is somewhat similar to ours.

WTF????

CosmicPal
04-26-2010, 07:52 AM
What is getting old is your inability to read people's posts.

I'm pretty sure I've never limited those two picks to defensive linemen.

Matter of fact, I've talked about the entire front 7. NT, ILB and pass rusher.

And I've listed no fewer than 6 players that would have filled those needs, fit our system, and were the BPA's at the time of the picks.

It's not my fault you read what you want to read.

Stop using the "inability to comprehend" as your rhetoric. All you do is bombast people and don't back it up just like Phil asked you to do.

Here's a grand idea for you: Give me that illuminated list of your defensive players and WHY you covet them so much. Can you do that or do we need to get you a tutor to help you out there?

CosmicPal
04-26-2010, 08:00 AM
Nah he'll be around awhile, he went to Baltimore, there's something about that team. Ray Lewis will motivate his big ass.

Good God dude, your infatuation with Baltimore is gross.

Why don't you just stop wasting your jizz on the Chiefs and become the Ravens #1 bitch-baby?

Here's an incentive for you: I'll personally buy you and your mom season tickets to the Ravens.

HotRoute
04-26-2010, 08:17 AM
sadly, we do have to watch the players we passed on. every sunday. that is, unless you refuse to watch football just because the Chiefs aren't playing.

Maybe I said that wrong, but my thinking is that we drafted 7 guys and there were more than 225 other players drafted. If we worried about all the other players we missed on it would take up way too much time

bsp4444
04-26-2010, 09:13 AM
Can't take the time to read all of these posts, but if we upgrade our defense, we put Jamaal Charles and Co. back on the field more often. Tweak the line and add a play maker, like we did, but we should have addressed the front 7 to keep from giving up long sustained drives, or record setting days to no-name running backs.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 09:51 AM
How about four of the seven. Over half. Dorsey, DJ, TJ, and Hali.

Keep acting as if 5th year pros are going to magically improve because of coaching alone.

Hali and DJ are what they are. Average, one dimensional players.

The Rick
04-26-2010, 09:54 AM
A thought occurred to me about how Pioli's philosophy and how he goes about building a team.

It seems like a lot of teams focus on using free agency to grab superstars and the draft to fill holes. Most fans certainly tend to think this way. That's why we're dumbfounded when we pass on certain guys who seem like the perfect fit based on our "needs".

I think Pioli's philosophy is the exact opposite. He uses the draft, for the most part, to grab who his people feel are potential superstars/playmakers, regardless of what the perceived team needs are. Free agency is used to fill the holes.

The argument is that draftees (after the 1st round) are cheaper than premium free agents.

I think Pioli will always pick a safe, solid player in the first round (who fills a need) due to the money. Then, beyond that, it's more about placing bets on potential superstars in hopes that they work out. If they don't, at least they didn't cost much.

That's why we sign a guy like Shaun Smith to play NT, and draft a guy like Dexter McCluster instead of drafting Terrance Cody and signing someone like Brandon Marshall.

Green Bay and New England are two other teams who do this same thing...

Pestilence
04-26-2010, 09:57 AM
I've accepted the McCluster pick. He better be our primary slot receiver though. The only picks that I can't come to terms with are the Arenas pick and the Moaeki pick. I just can't.....

I'm only going to say one thing about the team next year. I better not see Vrabel's old ass out on the field as a starter again. Studebaker showed he can play....put him out on the field and leave Vrabel on the bench. He's fucking done.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-26-2010, 10:03 AM
Keep acting as if 5th year pros are going to magically improve because of coaching alone.

Hali and DJ are what they are. Average, one dimensional players.

Hali is a good player, not average. The fact that you fail to see it is an indictment of your football acumen.

DJ shouldn't be on the bench. DJ is an athletic play maker. He can do things that most linebackers can't.

The key is using these guys effectively. Don't get me wrong, I actually thought ILB and OLB was a need going into the draft. Especially since Vrabel is about done.... and Mays is an average player.

But, you can't address every position, and the Chiefs have four first rounders in the front seven... so, they have talent there.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 10:07 AM
Hali is a good player, not average. The fact that you fail to see it is an indictment of your football acumen.

DJ shouldn't be on the bench. DJ is an athletic play maker. He can do things that most linebackers can't.

The key is using these guys effectively. Don't get me wrong, I actually thought ILB and OLB was a need going into the draft. Especially since Vrabel is about done.... and Mays is an average player.

But, you can't address every position, and the Chiefs have four first rounders in the front seven... so, they have talent there.

Hali is a one dimensional pass rusher who is ridiculously bad against the run. 8 sacks a year and being a liability in every other facet of the game is not "good."

DJ has all the talent in the world, but refuses to use it in every play, which makes him a liability as well.

Neither are going to magically change just because a new staff is coming in. They are what they are - one dimensional and underachieving.

Douche Baggins
04-26-2010, 10:20 AM
Mays is average?

Now I've heard it all.

Mays is one of the 10 worst starting linebackers in the entire NFL.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-26-2010, 10:21 AM
I've accepted the McCluster pick. He better be our primary slot receiver though. The only picks that I can't come to terms with are the Arenas pick and the Moaeki pick. I just can't.....

I'm only going to say one thing about the team next year. I better not see Vrabel's old ass out on the field as a starter again. Studebaker showed he can play....put him out on the field and leave Vrabel on the bench. He's ****ing done.

Okay, I get the reservation about Moaeki.... but only due to injuries. That said, he gambled with a 4th/5th round pick. And, if he is right, this kid could be the next Dallas Clark....just has to stay healthy.

Now, Arenas.....

When he returns a kickoff back to the house, you will start to warm up to him. When you see him blitz the QB from nowhere and get there... you will start to like him. When you see him undercut the WR on about the five yard line and take it all the way to the opposite endzone, you will love him.

Everyone was thrilled with Brandon Flowers. Flowers and Arenas are very, VERY similar players. Only, Arenas is the best returner in the draft...

Oh, and don't forget.... Flowers ran a 4.58. Arenas ran a 4.61, and tweaked his hamstring during the run. He subsequently ran a 4.53. So, he is every bit as fast as flowers. He is, the same height as Flowers, and 10lbs heavier than Flowers.

Absolute stud player. I just don't get your inability to like this pick.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-26-2010, 10:22 AM
Mays is average?

Now I've heard it all.

Mays is one of the 10 worst starting linebackers in the entire NFL.

Average was based on the entirety of the NFL linebackers, not starting linebackers. But, yeah, he is one of the worst starting linebacker in the league.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2010, 10:29 AM
This sums it up.

Von Dumbass
04-26-2010, 10:35 AM
I can tell you this: Jimmy Clausen was never on the Chiefs' radar.
https://twitter.com/SI_PeterKing/status/12887596735


RT @ECUPirate99: @SI_PeterKing why didn't KC draft Clausen if Weis is so high on him? ... Why take him if they trust Cassel, which they do?
https://twitter.com/SI_PeterKing/status/12887573527

Fish
04-26-2010, 10:41 AM
Why are people thinking that we're going to be blitzing a CB all the time now that we have Arenas? You just don't use a CB blitz that often in the NFL. Certainly not often enough to justify a 2nd round draft pick on it.

Flachief58
04-26-2010, 10:56 AM
:clap: :clap: Bravo! As I've been saying for some time, we need more talent around Cassel. I'm not in love with him and am not sure that he's the answer at Qb, but with what Pioli did in the draft it should give him more reliable (I hope) targets wich should translate into wins. This team had/has so many holes that it will take time to fill them all. We as fans are just going to have to let the powers that be do what they are getting payed to do and just be patient. I still think that in 2 years this team will be a contender again.Offense sells tickets, defense wins championships.

Last year we set 20-year lows for attendance, had a blackout, and people were very, very disappointed with the Chiefs. The only good thing to come out of the season was Jamaal Charles. The quarterback looked like poo. We ranked 25th in offense, 25th in passing offense, and did nothing in free agency to help the passing game.

Was the defense terrible? Yes. But without some sort of MAJOR progress on the offensive side of the ball, without MAJOR improvement from Matt Cassel, without some kind of EXCITEMENT at Arrowhead besides Charles, the Chiefs were probably looking at a repeat of what happened last year.

So what does Pioli do? Hires an offensive coordinator with a great resume. Signs two offensive linemen in free agency and a running back to complement Charles. In the draft, he picks a tight end (maybe the worst position on the team last year), a potential playmaking threat on offense, another guard to help the line, and a potentially exciting kick returner.

Brokakie and Cluster**** are CLEARLY designed to play to Cassel's strengths - short-range passing. Last year the Chiefs had no one who was really good at this. Chambers is more of a down-the-field speed receiver and Bowe couldn't catch a cold. With an inaccurate quarterback who can't throw the ball down the field with consistency, that's not enough weapons.

How many slot receivers and tight ends did the Chiefs go through? Bobby Engram, Lance Long, Bobby Wade, Sean Ryan, Brad Cottam, Jake O'Connell, His Holiness Leonard Pope. Why did Cassel thrive in New England? Wes Welker caught 111 passes and Kevin Faulk, Sammy Morris and Benjamin Watson caught another 100.

Cassel needs short-range receivers that can get open and catch the ball consistently. Last year he had almost nobody. If Pioli hit on the right players, and Bowe un****s himself, now he has plenty, and the Chiefs' YAC-based passing game thrives in tandem with a ZBS-based running game featuring three incredibly talented ball carriers.

Bottom line: The Chiefs have an easy enough schedule that a 25 PPG offense probably results in 7 wins. If Pioli's moves this offseason pan out and Cassel looks competent, the NEW Arrowhead is FUN and EXCITING again and the credibility of the new regime shoots way up. Season ticket sales ignite. And that's EXACTLY what the Chiefs need right now.

Can you imagine the excitement next offseason if people start saying "all we need is a few upgrades on defense and we'll be in the playoffs!" It would probably be the most anticipated season at Arrowhead since....2003....and to a lot of people that is a huge sign of progress.

Do I think Pioli is a moron? No. He's not stupid enough to sit there and look at the roster and think we don't need drastic help in the front seven. But he's not a fan...he's a GM...a general ****ing manager...and the franchise he is managing has huge fan support issues and his highly-paid quarterback has credibility issues.

Upgrading the front seven and picking another quarterback probably wouldn't have helped him in that regard in the short term. Because...let's face it...most fans are pretty ignorant. And if Cassel flopped this year while the Chiefs trotted out a mediocre offense and an "improved" defense that wilted late in games without offensive support (see the 2007 Chiefs), guess what? More blackouts, stagnant season-ticket sales and Jason Whitlock ripping Pioli to shreds in the local fishwrap.

Do I like it? Not right now, mot especially, because if you have to prop up a quarterback you probably aren't ever going to win a championship, and I loathe the thought of watching guys like Jerome Harrison rape us for 300 yards rushing for another year. But there's enough true fan in me that I probably won't care if Jamaal Charles, Thomas Jones, Dexter McCluster, Javier Arenas, Tony Moeaki, Dwayne Bowe, Chris Chambers are flat out ripping shit up at Arrowhead this year.

Offense sells tickets, defense wins championships. Right now the Chiefs are nowhere close to a championship, but they sure do need to put some butts in the seats.

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2010, 11:11 AM
I don't believe ONE WORD of your premise. I just don't think most people get it:

Pioli doesn't give a flying fuck about what happened in the 49 years prior to his arrival.

2009 was Year Zero. 2010 is Year One.

He came in, jettisoned players, switched to a 3-4, confused us all with the draft and other than Chambers, who was a waiver wire acquisition, only brought in guys familiar with "the system".

Pioli has a full five years to re-make this team in his image. Last year, he put the foundation in place, this year, he's added playmakers and more leaders. Instead of drafting ILB's and OLB's and NT's, he chose dynamic playmakers who can turn the game around with a single touch of the ball. He'll fill the defensive holes with free agents and young players in September after the final cutdown.

Pioli isn't trying to appeal to anyone and he's not trying to fill the stadium.

He's trying to build a championship football team that once it's complete, can compete for a championship each and every year.

philfree
04-26-2010, 11:20 AM
I don't believe ONE WORD of your premise. I just don't think most people get it:

Pioli doesn't give a flying **** about what happened in the 49 years prior to his arrival.

2009 was Year Zero. 2010 is Year One.

He came in, jettisoned players, switched to a 3-4, confused us all with the draft and other than Chambers, who was a waiver wire acquisition, only brought in guys familiar with "the system".

Pioli has a full five years to re-make this team in his image. Last year, he put the foundation in place, this year, he's added playmakers and more leaders. Instead of drafting ILB's and OLB's and NT's, he chose dynamic playmakers who can turn the game around with a single touch of the ball. He'll fill the defensive holes with free agents and young players in September after the final cutdown.

Pioli isn't trying to appeal to anyone and he's not trying to fill the stadium.

He's trying to build a championship football team that once it's complete, can compete for a championship each and every year.

Exactly


PhilFree:arrow:

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 11:21 AM
I don't believe ONE WORD of your premise. I just don't think most people get it:

Pioli doesn't give a flying **** about what happened in the 49 years prior to his arrival.

2009 was Year Zero. 2010 is Year One.

He came in, jettisoned players, switched to a 3-4, confused us all with the draft and other than Chambers, who was a waiver wire acquisition, only brought in guys familiar with "the system".

Pioli has a full five years to re-make this team in his image. Last year, he put the foundation in place, this year, he's added playmakers and more leaders. Instead of drafting ILB's and OLB's and NT's, he chose dynamic playmakers who can turn the game around with a single touch of the ball. He'll fill the defensive holes with free agents and young players in September after the final cutdown.

Pioli isn't trying to appeal to anyone and he's not trying to fill the stadium.

He's trying to build a championship football team that once it's complete, can compete for a championship each and every year.



:banghead:

Okay, Someone needs to bring the Real Dane Back...


Maybe we need to start a amber alert?

This shit is getting wierd..... Very strange.....

JASONSAUTO
04-26-2010, 11:35 AM
:banghead:

Okay, Someone needs to bring the Real Dane Back...


Maybe we need to start a amber alert?

This shit is getting wierd..... Very strange.....

dane has stuck to EXACTLY what he said before the draft(and the prior YEAR leading up to it) draft playmakers and dane will be happy. we did and he seems to be.


the other guys said the same thing and look how they react. hell otwp had almost the same draft position-wise in the mock but he's bitchin. and then to use the "i would have taken lee at 50 but he was gone" excuse. well hughes was gone at 36 so what now?

Old Dog
04-26-2010, 01:15 PM
I don't believe ONE WORD of your premise. I just don't think most people get it:

Pioli doesn't give a flying fuck about what happened in the 49 years prior to his arrival.

2009 was Year Zero. 2010 is Year One.

He came in, jettisoned players, switched to a 3-4, confused us all with the draft and other than Chambers, who was a waiver wire acquisition, only brought in guys familiar with "the system".

Pioli has a full five years to re-make this team in his image. Last year, he put the foundation in place, this year, he's added playmakers and more leaders. Instead of drafting ILB's and OLB's and NT's, he chose dynamic playmakers who can turn the game around with a single touch of the ball. He'll fill the defensive holes with free agents and young players in September after the final cutdown.

Pioli isn't trying to appeal to anyone and he's not trying to fill the stadium.

He's trying to build a championship football team that once it's complete, can compete for a championship each and every year.

QFT

RedThat
04-26-2010, 01:44 PM
I'm sorry, you don't draft a corner for his blitzing skills.

Oh I agree. But Im just saying.

He won't be asked to just blitz, he is going to be a multi-purpose utility player that will contribute to this team in more ways than one. The Chiefs drafted him mainly because of his versitility.

He will provide excellent depth in the secondary, he'll be a nickelback or he could start? Mayock thinks he is good enough to start?

But, one thing is for certain, he will return kicks and that is his specialty. Arenas is also an outstanding returner. One of the best in the nation.

Douche Baggins
04-26-2010, 01:51 PM
He'll fill the defensive holes with free agents and young players in September after the final cutdown.


Holes that will have to be re-filled come April 2011.

There are no answers in free agency this late in the year.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-26-2010, 02:01 PM
Holes that will have to be re-filled come April 2011.

There are no answers in free agency this late in the year.

Henderson looks like an answer.

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2010, 02:07 PM
Holes that will have to be re-filled come April 2011.

There are no answers in free agency this late in the year.

Big deal.

There are absolutely no guarantees that offensive playmakers with the "right" character will be there when the Chiefs pick in 2011.

This isn't a one or two or even three year rebuilding project.

It's going to take a minimum of four and possibly five for this team to be "set" in Pioli's eyes.

Chiefnj2
04-26-2010, 02:17 PM
Big deal.

There are absolutely no guarantees that offensive playmakers with the "right" character will be there when the Chiefs pick in 2011.

This isn't a one or two or even three year rebuilding project.

It's going to take a minimum of four and possibly five for this team to be "set" in Pioli's eyes.

It's inexcusable to think you need 5 years to rebuild.

Mr. Plow
04-26-2010, 02:19 PM
I don't believe ONE WORD of your premise. I just don't think most people get it:

Pioli doesn't give a flying fuck about what happened in the 49 years prior to his arrival.

2009 was Year Zero. 2010 is Year One.

He came in, jettisoned players, switched to a 3-4, confused us all with the draft and other than Chambers, who was a waiver wire acquisition, only brought in guys familiar with "the system".

Pioli has a full five years to re-make this team in his image. Last year, he put the foundation in place, this year, he's added playmakers and more leaders. Instead of drafting ILB's and OLB's and NT's, he chose dynamic playmakers who can turn the game around with a single touch of the ball. He'll fill the defensive holes with free agents and young players in September after the final cutdown.

Pioli isn't trying to appeal to anyone and he's not trying to fill the stadium.

He's trying to build a championship football team that once it's complete, can compete for a championship each and every year.


Very nicely said Dane! :clap:

Mr. Plow
04-26-2010, 02:19 PM
It's inexcusable to think you need 5 years to rebuild.

What is the appropriate amount of time?

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2010, 02:25 PM
It's inexcusable to think you need 5 years to rebuild.

You know, in most cases, I'd agree with you.

But this franchise has pretty much sucked fucking ass for better part of 49 years.

Marty's teams, as much fun as they were, were never serious Super Bowl contenders. Vermeil's teams were the same way. Herm's? Well, we all know the answer to that.

Let's go back to the 70's and 80's: Tom Bettis? Wiggins? Marv Levy and winged T? Mackovic? Ganz?

This team needed to be gutted from the top, down to the guys that mow the lawns. I've been saying it for years: The talent level was near expansion franchise level.

Why not hire a guy like Pioli to fully rip it apart and completely rebuild it as he sees fit?

Nothing else has worked in 50 years.

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 03:08 PM
You know, in most cases, I'd agree with you.

But this franchise has pretty much sucked ****ing ass for better part of 49 years.

Marty's teams, as much fun as they were, were never serious Super Bowl contenders. Vermeil's teams were the same way. Herm's? Well, we all know the answer to that.

Let's go back to the 70's and 80's: Tom Bettis? Wiggins? Marv Levy and winged T? Mackovic? Ganz?

This team needed to be gutted from the top, down to the guys that mow the lawns. I've been saying it for years: The talent level was near expansion franchise level.

Why not hire a guy like Pioli to fully rip it apart and completely rebuild it as he sees fit?

Nothing else has worked in 50 years.

Which is why this season and the future is exciting... Pioli is doing his way. Not Carls, Marty, Dick, Herm etc.... The same old fill holes, draft who the so called talking heads think you need.

Pioli and his crew are drafting who they seem fit and who will help this team. Pioli isnt concerned with Chiefsplanet or Whitlock... He is concerned with winning a superbowl, unlike Carl.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2010, 03:15 PM
You know, in most cases, I'd agree with you.

But this franchise has pretty much sucked fucking ass for better part of 49 years.

Marty's teams, as much fun as they were, were never serious Super Bowl contenders. Vermeil's teams were the same way. Herm's? Well, we all know the answer to that.

Let's go back to the 70's and 80's: Tom Bettis? Wiggins? Marv Levy and winged T? Mackovic? Ganz?

This team needed to be gutted from the top, down to the guys that mow the lawns. I've been saying it for years: The talent level was near expansion franchise level.

Why not hire a guy like Pioli to fully rip it apart and completely rebuild it as he sees fit?

Nothing else has worked in 50 years.

I don't know what happened to you over the weekend, but that's actually the best damn post regarding Pioli and the Chiefs from a positive perspective that I've read.

Pestilence
04-26-2010, 03:22 PM
I don't know what happened to you over the weekend, but that's actually the best damn post regarding Pioli and the Chiefs from a positive perspective that I've read.

I think what may have happened to him was what kind of happened to me.

I got pissed about the draft and bitched so much that I finally just stopped. Not that I stopped caring....but I came to the realization that he's going to pick whomever he wants to pick and there's nothing I can do about it.

I'm done...

Pioli has broken me.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 03:25 PM
I think what may have happened to him was what kind of happened to me.

I got pissed about the draft and bitched so much that I finally just stopped. Not that I stopped caring....but I came to the realization that he's going to pick whomever he wants to pick and there's nothing I can do about it.

I'm done...

Pioli has broken me.

I'm not far behind.

Pestilence
04-26-2010, 03:27 PM
I'm still a Chiefs fan....and I'm still going to root for them every second of every game. I'm even going to go as far as coming out for their Monday night opener. This is my first Arrowhead experience....so Pioli has his work cut out for him.

But I'm done getting pissed that they didn't draft who I wanted them to draft. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to annoy the shit out of me.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 03:31 PM
I'm still a Chiefs fan....and I'm still going to root for them every second of every game. I'm even going to go as far as coming out for their Monday night opener. This is my first Arrowhead experience....so Pioli has his work cut out for him.

But I'm done getting pissed that they didn't draft who I wanted them to draft. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to annoy the shit out of me.

Same here, to a degree.

I've gotten a bit apathetic since Pioli's came here. With the moves he's made, I fully expect them to suck, and I didn't get upset watching a single game last year - probably because I had no expectations.

So when they actually do well, it's a pleasant surprise.

I'll always root for this team, but I'm thinking it's going to take either new ownership or a new regime that values talent over character before I live and die with them again.

Fish
04-26-2010, 03:32 PM
I think what may have happened to him was what kind of happened to me.

I got pissed about the draft and bitched so much that I finally just stopped. Not that I stopped caring....but I came to the realization that he's going to pick whomever he wants to pick and there's nothing I can do about it.

I'm done...

Pioli has broken me.

When the McCluster name was read during the draft, it became quite obvious to me that the Chiefs are never ever going to do what I'd like them to do. Any further expectations, whether good or bad, are just plain foolish.

Pestilence
04-26-2010, 03:33 PM
Well...I don't see them making it far with Cassel as QB. So I'll be on the "draft a QB" bandwagon again next year. I'm getting really tired of being on it every year though.

Pestilence
04-26-2010, 03:35 PM
When the McCluster name was read during the draft, it became quite obvious to me that the Chiefs are never ever going to do what I'd like them to do. Any further expectations, whether good or bad, are just plain foolish.

Pretty much. When they passed on Clausen in the 2nd round....I knew that everything I thought they could do.....was out the window. I didn't even watch the draft on Friday or Saturday. I tracked it on my phone and texted back and forth with Flopnuts.....but I didn't have the energy to watch it anymore after they passed on Clausen.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 03:41 PM
Well...I don't see them making it far with Cassel as QB. So I'll be on the "draft a QB" bandwagon again next year. I'm getting really tired of being on it every year though.

That wagon is going to wear the fuck out, because after passing two years in a row, I've resigned myself to the fact that Cassel could get WORSE (not sure how that's possible) and he'll still be here.

And the sad part? Even if I'm wrong, and Cassel was cut at some point, I'll bet anything that he's replaced via trade, or by trying to win the lottery with a late round pick again.

I'm 100% convinced that Pioli will never draft a franchise QB.

Pestilence
04-26-2010, 03:44 PM
That wagon is going to wear the fuck out, because after passing two years in a row, I've resigned myself to the fact that Cassel could get WORSE (not sure how that's possible) and he'll still be here.

And the sad part? Even if I'm wrong, and Cassel was cut at some point, I'll bet anything that he's replaced via trade, or by trying to win the lottery with a late round pick again.

I'm 100% convinced that Pioli will never draft a franchise QB.

I'm just waiting for the next offseason....

I can't wait for the excuses to be made if he does suck. I'm being 100% honest that if Cassel fails.....that Bowe or Albert will be on their way out the door. Someone will be the scapegoat for Cassel playing horrible.

KCChiefsFan88
04-26-2010, 03:45 PM
The team that won the Super Bowl last year had the #1 ranked offense in the league and the 25th ranked defense.

Douche Baggins
04-26-2010, 03:49 PM
The team that won the Super Bowl last year had the #1 ranked offense in the league and the 25th ranked defense.

Chiefsplanet: We nitpick everything to death.

SPATCH
04-26-2010, 03:52 PM
Pretty much. When they passed on Clausen in the 2nd round....I knew that everything I thought they could do.....was out the window. I didn't even watch the draft on Friday or Saturday. I tracked it on my phone and texted back and forth with Flopnuts.....but I didn't have the energy to watch it anymore after they passed on Clausen.

That wagon is going to wear the **** out, because after passing two years in a row, I've resigned myself to the fact that Cassel could get WORSE (not sure how that's possible) and he'll still be here.

And the sad part? Even if I'm wrong, and Cassel was cut at some point, I'll bet anything that he's replaced via trade, or by trying to win the lottery with a late round pick again.

I'm 100% convinced that Pioli will never draft a franchise QB.

you guys are high...

a. this was a WEAK year for QB's

b. Claussen was passed up by EVERYONE because he has an ineffectual, weak personality and is incapable of leading a group of grown men.

Next year's class will be exponentially better at QB. Jake Locker, Andrew Luck, Ryan Mallet, etc.

If you can't wrap your mind around that...

Douche Baggins
04-26-2010, 03:53 PM
Who cares how strong the quarterback class is next year?

THE CHIEFS AREN'T DRAFTING A QUARTERBACK

Pestilence
04-26-2010, 03:55 PM
you guys are high...

a. this was a WEAK year for QB's

b. Claussen was passed up by EVERYONE because he has an ineffectual, weak personality and is incapable of leading a group of grown men.

Next year's class will be exponentially better at QB. Jake Locker, Andrew Luck, Ryan Mallet, etc.

If you can't wrap your mind around that...

Fucking Christ....I'm seriously sick and fucking tired of hearing this same stupid fucking excuse.

3/4's of the teams that passed on Clausen DIDN'T FUCKING NEED A QB.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-26-2010, 03:56 PM
Well...I don't see them making it far with Cassel as QB. So I'll be on the "draft a QB" bandwagon again next year. I'm getting really tired of being on it every year though.

At least next year there are several guys who will be worth it.

Fish
04-26-2010, 03:58 PM
you guys are high...

a. this was a WEAK year for QB's

b. Sanchez was passed up by EVERYONE because he has a lack of experience and holds the ball too long.

Next year's class will be exponentially better at QB. Sam Bradford, Colt McCoy, Jevan Snead, etc.

If you can't wrap your mind around that...

Formatted for 2009 draft.... Could surely be formatted again next year... cause there's always a next year....

SenselessChiefsFan
04-26-2010, 03:58 PM
****ing Christ....I'm seriously sick and ****ing tired of hearing this same stupid ****ing excuse.

3/4's of the teams that passed on Clausen DIDN'T ****ING NEED A QB.

Not true. At least 15 teams need a QB. And, some of the others might have at least wanted to consider him if he were a 'value' pick. Remember, Green Bay drafted Rogers when they still had Favre. Manning is 34. Brady is 32.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 04:00 PM
Not true. At least 15 teams need a QB. And, some of the others might have at least wanted to consider him if he were a 'value' pick. Remember, Green Bay drafted Rogers when they still had Favre. Manning is 34. Brady is 32.

ROFL

Holy shit, that's fucking funny.

The Colts or Patriots should have spent a first round pick on a QB.

SPATCH
04-26-2010, 04:04 PM
****ing Christ....I'm seriously sick and ****ing tired of hearing this same stupid ****ing excuse.

3/4's of the teams that passed on Clausen DIDN'T ****ING NEED A QB.

Which is exactly what I would expect you to say...

However, Scott Pioli and I would agree that you can not afford to miss on drafting a "franchise quarterback". If you are going to draft a franchise quarterback at the top of your draft then you should not be drafting someone with as many question marks as Jimmy fucking Claussen.

To say that Pioli will "never draft a franchise quarterback" is baseless and founded on nothing

SPATCH
04-26-2010, 04:08 PM
I would like to thank the Claussen family, however, for making some tasty-ass pickles.

http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/04/47/00/09/0004470009216_215X215.jpg

SenselessChiefsFan
04-26-2010, 04:25 PM
ROFL

Holy shit, that's ****ing funny.

The Colts or Patriots should have spent a first round pick on a QB.

Way to spin the statement. The point is that if he was a 'can't miss' prospect. A guy that was considered a 'franchise QB'... even teams like the Colts or the Pats would have to be tempted. I mean, Rogers was drafted when the Packers still had Favre. When a team always drafts at the bottom of the first round, certainly they would have to grab a QB that they felt was a 'franchise QB', right?

Only, Clausen is a longshot to be a franchise QB, which is why he went in the middle of round 2.

chiefzilla1501
04-26-2010, 05:17 PM
Ask any coach in this league, and they'll all tell you the same thing.

If you can't stop the run, you won't win many games.

Why were we looking to upgrade positions that weren't really an issue?

There's nothing wrong with our pass defense, other than the fact they have to cover for 7 seconds because we have no pass rush. Is another NCB really going to solve that issue?

Do we really need a slot WR when the QB we have has a hard time getting it to the WR's we already have?

Meanwhile, Jerome Harrison just scored again.

Trust me, I know that we need a NT and OLBs. I've said for months that it's the most important are to upgrade.

I just don't understand why the panic over not doing it right away in a season we're not going to compete in anyway.

Those guys will help us win a few games this season. But not nearly enough.

Not picking NT and OLB doesn't stop us from focusing on that next season. Frankly, wouldn't surprise me if we make a major run at Wilfork and take a high-priced OLB in free agency. Keep in mind that Pioli brought both Roosevelt Colvin and Adalius Thomas in, so he's not afraid to spend money on OLBs.

Pestilence
04-26-2010, 05:22 PM
I just don't understand why the panic over not doing it right away in a season we're not going to compete in anyway.



This is the problem. When are we actually going to start "competing" for real?

A GM doesn't get to two season to evaluate a team.

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2010, 05:26 PM
This is the problem. When are we actually going to start "competing" for real?

A GM doesn't get to two season to evaluate a team.

I think he's already evaluated the team and decided it was full of shit.

So he's jettisoning players and rebuilding as if there was never a team in existence before he arrived.

It's a ballsy move but hopefully it'll pay off.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 05:29 PM
Trust me, I know that we need a NT and OLBs. I've said for months that it's the most important are to upgrade.

I just don't understand why the panic over not doing it right away in a season we're not going to compete in anyway.

Those guys will help us win a few games this season. But not nearly enough.

Not picking NT and OLB doesn't stop us from focusing on that next season. Frankly, wouldn't surprise me if we make a major run at Wilfork and take a high-priced OLB in free agency. Keep in mind that Pioli brought both Roosevelt Colvin and Adalius Thomas in, so he's not afraid to spend money on OLBs.

And there's the issue.

When Pioli first was hired, this place almost universally expected significant progress (usually quantified as 8-8) the 2nd year, and a playoff win+ the third.

Now that it's obvious he blew the first offseason, people are relaxing their expectations.

chiefzilla1501
04-26-2010, 05:29 PM
This is the problem. When are we actually going to start "competing" for real?

A GM doesn't get to two season to evaluate a team.

Well, I think we all know we lost a year because our front office was horrendous in 2009. But my interest is if we're going to get better moving forward. And I think we did. Even if we had the best offseason of any team, I don't think we were anything but a fringe playoff team at the absolute best.

They fucked up in 2009. But that doesn't mean you fix a fuck-up by making panic moves to fix those mistakes.

This is my opinion. The Nose Tackle and ILB positions will be filled and they won't be incredibly hard to fill. What will be tougher to fill in are playmakers. OLB is one area you can get that and maybe Kindle was a miss. But if McCluster becomes a playmaker, I'd have no qualms passing up, say, a Nose Tackle in his place.

MahiMike
04-26-2010, 05:30 PM
Excellent post. I think you are spot on. Either that or Pioli is just building his core and has a 3 yr plan...

Pestilence
04-26-2010, 05:31 PM
Well, I think we all know we lost a year because our front office was horrendous in 2009. But my interest is if we're going to get better moving forward. And I think we did. Even if we had the best offseason of any team, I don't think we were anything but a fringe playoff team at the absolute best.

They fucked up in 2009. But that doesn't mean you fix a fuck-up by making panic moves to fix those mistakes.

This is my opinion. The Nose Tackle and ILB positions will be filled and they won't be incredibly hard to fill. What will be tougher to fill in are playmakers. OLB is one area you can get that and maybe Kindle was a miss. But if McCluster becomes a playmaker, I'd have no qualms passing up, say, a Nose Tackle in his place.

So 2009 was a fuck up......and now 2010 becomes yet another year that we're not expected to do anything.

JFC.

Pestilence
04-26-2010, 05:32 PM
I think he's already evaluated the team and decided it was full of shit.

So he's jettisoning players and rebuilding as if there was never a team in existence before he arrived.

It's a ballsy move but hopefully it'll pay off.

That makes better sense than.....well we weren't going to compete anyways.

Pestilence
04-26-2010, 05:34 PM
Oh....and FWIW......I expect to see improvements on this team.

1. Less penalties - For being such a "smart" team....they sure made a lot of dumbass mistakes.

2. Cassel better fucking improve....or he should be gone next year.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 05:34 PM
Lets be fair, it's hard to compete with the QB we have.

chiefzilla1501
04-26-2010, 05:37 PM
So 2009 was a **** up......and now 2010 becomes yet another year that we're not expected to do anything.

JFC.

2009 was a fuck-up from a personnel standpoint.

2010, I believe we made moves that move us in the right direction.

No, we shouldn't expect to do anything in 2010 and shame on the front office for goofing up in 2009. But the point right now isn't to get us to a Super Bowl this season. It's to get better and lay the groundwork for continuous improvement.

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2010, 05:39 PM
Lets be fair, it's hard to compete with the QB we have.

I'm no Cassel fan but that's completely false.

The Chiefs were a in position to win at least two more games last year with a shit roster. The main reason why they lost those games is because the defense (ahem, Mike Brown) couldn't stop anyone.

If Eric Berry had been on our team in 2009, I guarantee they win the Raiders game and the Cowboys game, going 6-10 in Pioli's first season and maybe even eeked out the Bengals game as well. If Dorsey hadn't been out for the Cleveland game (again, defense and no depth), I would have liked their chances against Cleveland.

This team most likely won't win a championship with Cassel at the helm but it's disingenuous to pronounce that they won't compete.

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 08:04 PM
Lets be fair, it's hard to compete with the QB we have.

Cant you come up with anything new.. We get it, you dont like the Chiefs, Cassel, Pioli, Haley, Hunt, the Draft, the players, the stadium, the City, the state or the fucking country for that matter...


Christ sakes you fucking whiney ass bitch, Get over yourself already...

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 08:13 PM
I'm no Cassel fan but that's completely false.

The Chiefs were a in position to win at least two more games last year with a shit roster. The main reason why they lost those games is because the defense (ahem, Mike Brown) couldn't stop anyone.

We lost a game that Cassel threw 0 TD's and 4 INT's in -where the defense allowed just 16 points.

We lost a game in which we allowed 13 points.

Matter of fact, every game that we had a legitimate chance to win, and we didn't, we allowed fewer than 17 points.

In those 5 games, we went 2-3. One of those wins we didn't score a TD.

Cassel threw 2 TD's and 9 INT's in those 5 games.

It's a miracle we won two of them.

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2010, 08:19 PM
We lost a game that Cassel threw 0 TD's and 4 INT's in -where the defense allowed just 16 points.

We lost a game in which we allowed 13 points.

Matter of fact, every game that we had a legitimate chance to win, and we didn't, we allowed fewer than 17 points.

In those 5 games, we went 2-3. One of those wins we didn't score a TD.

Cassel threw 2 TD's and 9 INT's in those 5 games.

It's a miracle we won two of them.

Cassel sucks ass.

But that doesn't take away from the fact that if Mike Brown weren't riding around in an electric chair in the secondary, the Chiefs would have beat Dallas and Oakland.

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 08:21 PM
Cassel sucks ass.

But that doesn't take away from the fact that if Mike Brown weren't riding around in an electric chair in the secondary, the Chiefs would have beat Dallas and Oakland.

Actually Brown uses a Segway....

Also, I dont think Cassel is as bad as all the haters make him out to be... But that is JMO... I know its cool to hate on him. But he is better than anything we have had in the last 20 years not named Green or Montana...

I know it isnt saying much, but before I menstrate like no other... I would like to see how he does when Pioli and Co give him a team to work with...

Douche Baggins
04-26-2010, 08:25 PM
We lost a game that Cassel threw 0 TD's and 4 INT's in -where the defense allowed just 16 points.

We lost a game in which we allowed 13 points.

Matter of fact, every game that we had a legitimate chance to win, and we didn't, we allowed fewer than 17 points.

In those 5 games, we went 2-3. One of those wins we didn't score a TD.

Cassel threw 2 TD's and 9 INT's in those 5 games.

It's a miracle we won two of them.

Fuck.

It's really sickening when you break it down like that.

boogblaster
04-26-2010, 08:26 PM
All in all play-makers .. who knows .. drafting a QB .. not sure after the first pick there was any ...

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 08:27 PM
****.

It's really sickening when you break it down like that.

Yeah those remind me of some rookie stats....

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 08:30 PM
Cassel sucks ass.

But that doesn't take away from the fact that if Mike Brown weren't riding around in an electric chair in the secondary, the Chiefs would have beat Dallas and Oakland.

So that means there were 5 games we could have won with competent QBing.

Everyone blames Brown for the Dallas game, but if you remember, (I do, I was there) the defense forced two turnovers, which lead to only 10 points - 3 of which were scored on a drive that started inside the Dallas red zone.

Nevermind that we had two possessions in OT - one that started at midfield, and netted a whopping 1 yard.

But back to my original point.

When you have 5 games in which you allow 13, 6, 10, 16 and 17 points - and only win twice - and your QB throws 2 TD/9 INT in those games - you can't blame the defense.

Marcellus
04-26-2010, 08:30 PM
We lost a game that Cassel threw 0 TD's and 4 INT's in -where the defense allowed just 16 points.

We lost a game in which we allowed 13 points.

Matter of fact, every game that we had a legitimate chance to win, and we didn't, we allowed fewer than 17 points.

In those 5 games, we went 2-3. One of those wins we didn't score a TD.

Cassel threw 2 TD's and 9 INT's in those 5 games.

It's a miracle we won two of them.

I don't think anyone thinks Cassel doesn't have to greatly improve for KC to be competitive. The question is whether you think he can improve enough.

It also has to be THIS year. With a full year of Chambers, Charles starting from the get go, the addition of Jones, the draft of McCluster, and the addition of Weiss along with hopefully some OL upgrades, this is it.


He won't be back in 2011 if he plays poorly again. I doubt he makes it the whole season as starter if he plays bad from the get go.

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 08:33 PM
I don't think anyone thinks Cassel doesn't have to greatly improve for KC to be competitive. The question is whether you think he can improve enough.

It also has to be THIS year. With a full year of Chambers, Charles starting from the get go, the addition of Jones, the draft of McCluster, and the addition of Weiss along with hopefully some OL upgrades, this is it.


He won't be back in 2011 if he plays poorly again. I doubt he makes it the whole season if he plays bad from the get go.

I agree with this... This is the make or break it year for Cassel... He doesnt have to be a pro bowl QB to have a long career here in KC... Yeah we were spoiled with Trent Green. But as long as he is top 10-15 the Chiefs can win alot of games with him..

He just has to get the ball in the hands of his playmakers and let them do the work... He doesnt have to win every game by himself... Even though people will be pissed if the Chiefs are 12-4 and Cassel isnt doing everything himself all the time. Like throwing and catching it too...

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2010, 08:34 PM
So that means there were 5 games we could have won with competent QBing.

Everyone blames Brown for the Dallas game, but if you remember, (I do, I was there) the defense forced two turnovers, which lead to only 10 points - 3 of which were scored on a drive that started inside the Dallas red zone.

Nevermind that we had two possessions in OT - one that started at midfield, and netted a whopping 1 yard.

But back to my original point.

When you have 5 games in which you allow 13, 6, 10, 16 and 17 points - and only win twice - and your QB throws 2 TD/9 INT in those games - you can't blame the defense.

Again, Cassel sucked ass. I'm not defending him or his play last year.

But when Miles Austin puts up 250 yards on your team, you're going to lose.

THAT was not Cassel's fault.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 08:36 PM
I don't think anyone thinks Cassel doesn't have to greatly improve for KC to be competitive. The question is whether you think he can improve enough.

It also has to be THIS year. With a full year of Chambers, Charles starting from the get go, the addition of Jones, the draft of McCluster, and the addition of Weiss along with hopefully some OL upgrades, this is it.


He won't be back in 2011 if he plays poorly again. I doubt he makes it the whole season as starter if he plays bad from the get go.

I wish I could believe that.

I watched Larry Johnson and Mike Goff play weekly while better players sat behind them, until one went full homophobe, and the other was injured.

I watched Mike Brown get beat religiously instead of giving someone else a chance, because he's Todd Haley's "favorite player of all time."

This regime plays favorites, and Cassel is at the head of the class.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 08:38 PM
Again, Cassel sucked ass. I'm not defending him or his play last year.

But when Miles Austin puts up 250 yards on your team, you're going to lose.

THAT was not Cassel's fault.

We had every opportunity to win that game even with Austin going apeshit.

Fuck it, I'll give you Dallas.

There's four other games that CASSEL cost us, not anyone else.

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 08:38 PM
Again, Cassel sucked ass. I'm not defending him or his play last year.

But when Miles Austin puts up 250 yards on your team, you're going to lose.

THAT was not Cassel's fault.

Well if he doesnt improve and become consistant over the course of the year. Then KC will have no choice but to dump him and move on after this season.

Coogs
04-26-2010, 08:40 PM
I'm not sure that I agree with the premise of the article, but I think there are enough fans that believe the problem with Cassel are solely the fault of the O-Line and the recievers to believe that getting players to improve those aspects will get fans excited about the prospects of the offense.

I'm very excited about the players we have added to go with Cassel. I'm not sure Cassel will know what to do with them. If not, the QB we draft/bring in next should have a nice cast in place in which to have success.

DeezNutz
04-26-2010, 08:41 PM
I wish I could believe that.

I watched Larry Johnson and Mike Goff play weekly while better players sat behind them, until one went full homophobe, and the other was injured.

I watched Mike Brown get beat religiously instead of giving someone else a chance, because he's Todd Haley's "favorite player of all time."

This regime plays favorites, and Cassel is at the head of the class.

Unfortunately, I think you're right.

Cassel is getting more than two years to prove his worth.

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2010, 08:43 PM
Well if he doesnt improve and become consistant over the course of the year. Then KC will have no choice but to dump him and move on after this season.

Yep.

I'd like to think that Weis can help become a better QB and make better decisions but quite honestly, I doubt it's possible.

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 08:43 PM
Unfortunately, I think you're right.

Cassel is getting more than two years to prove his worth.

3 is pushing it if he doesnt improve this year...

3 could be the magical number... The Chiefs could be drafting a QB very high next year.. They just might not have a choice...

DeezNutz
04-26-2010, 08:44 PM
3 is pushing it if he doesnt improve this year...

3 could be the magical number... The Chiefs could be drafting a QB very high next year.. They just might not have a choice...

Our GM doesn't like risks; he was born for KC.

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2010, 08:44 PM
Unfortunately, I think you're right.

Cassel is getting more than two years to prove his worth.

If he's putting up 14.6 and 35 and 58 QB ratings consistently this year, he'll be yanked in favor of Croyle.

They structured that contract that way for a reason.

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 08:44 PM
Yep.

I'd like to think that Weis can help become a better QB and make better decisions but quite honestly, I doubt it's possible.

But then again like I said in the previous post.

he could force KC to draft a QB very high next year and 3 years could be it for Cassel at the max. That is if he doesnt improve....

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 08:47 PM
Yep.

I'd like to think that Weis can help become a better QB and make better decisions but quite honestly, I doubt it's possible.

I'm guessing that Charlie will do everything in his power to limit the decisions Cassel has to make.

If we all know that Cassel can't complete more than 40% of his passes thrown over 10 yards, you know Charlie knows and will do everything he can to mask that deficiency.

Where Weis is going to have to get creative, is that teams are going to sit on the underneath stuff and force us to go downfield - which will get ugly.

He has his work cut out for him. I'd be shocked if Cassel's stats aren't acceptable, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a better QB.

I mean, his name is Weis, not Houdini.

Marcellus
04-26-2010, 08:48 PM
But then again like I said in the previous post.

he could force KC to draft a QB very high next year and 3 years could be it for Cassel at the max. That is if he doesnt improve....

It wont be 3 years if he sucks next year. He is due something like a $7MM roster bonus after this season.

milkman
04-26-2010, 08:48 PM
:clap: :clap: Bravo! As I've been saying for some time, we need more talent around Cassel. I'm not in love with him and am not sure that he's the answer at Qb, but with what Pioli did in the draft it should give him more reliable (I hope) targets wich should translate into wins. This team had/has so many holes that it will take time to fill them all. We as fans are just going to have to let the powers that be do what they are getting payed to do and just be patient. I still think that in 2 years this team will be a contender again.

How do you go through life and not learn how to spell "payed"? (paid)

Damn.

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 08:49 PM
Our GM doesn't like risks; he was born for KC.

If he's putting up 14.6 and 35 and 58 QB ratings consistently this year, he'll be yanked in favor of Croyle.

They structured that contract that way for a reason.


Actually I believe Pioli wants to win a Super Bowl. Period.

So I dont think he is doesnt like risks, otherwise he would of went the safe route in the draft and pleased the draftubator/menstrators with picks like Lazy Cody or Gay Clausen...


No I want to believe that after this year with ratings like Dane has stated that we will draft a QB and he will be playing by week 6 in 2010...

Just a thought and is probably wrong....

milkman
04-26-2010, 08:49 PM
I don't believe ONE WORD of your premise. I just don't think most people get it:

Pioli doesn't give a flying **** about what happened in the 49 years prior to his arrival.

2009 was Year Zero. 2010 is Year One.

He came in, jettisoned players, switched to a 3-4, confused us all with the draft and other than Chambers, who was a waiver wire acquisition, only brought in guys familiar with "the system".

Pioli has a full five years to re-make this team in his image. Last year, he put the foundation in place, this year, he's added playmakers and more leaders. Instead of drafting ILB's and OLB's and NT's, he chose dynamic playmakers who can turn the game around with a single touch of the ball. He'll fill the defensive holes with free agents and young players in September after the final cutdown.

Pioli isn't trying to appeal to anyone and he's not trying to fill the stadium.

He's trying to build a championship football team that once it's complete, can compete for a championship each and every year.

So Tyson Jackson was the foundation?

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 08:50 PM
It wont be 3 years if he sucks next year. He is due something like a $7MM roster bonus after this season.

Then he better not suck or he is gonzo... Cant build a team around him "if" he doesnt improve....

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 08:50 PM
So Tyson Jackson was the foundation?

Ouch.

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2010, 08:50 PM
So Tyson Jackson was the foundation?

Apparently, as much as I hate that fucking draft class.

My only hope is that he'll improve on the field but he'll never live up to #3 overall.

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 08:51 PM
So Tyson Jackson was the foundation?

yep a corner stone for then next 5-10 years.... A pillar of success!

milkman
04-26-2010, 08:52 PM
dane has stuck to EXACTLY what he said before the draft(and the prior YEAR leading up to it) draft playmakers and dane will be happy. we did and he seems to be.


the other guys said the same thing and look how they react. hell otwp had almost the same draft position-wise in the mock but he's bitchin. and then to use the "i would have taken lee at 50 but he was gone" excuse. well hughes was gone at 36 so what now?

I have no problem with the idea of bringing in playmakers.

But until I see these guys contribute on mre than 50% of snaps, then I see them as part time players.

They may be playmakers, but we needed fulltime playmakers.

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 08:54 PM
Apparently, as much as I hate that ****ing draft class.

My only hope is that he'll improve on the field but he'll never live up to #3 overall.


You hate the 2009 class like I hate the 2006 and 2007 class....

He wont ever live up to the #3 pick, so all we can hope for is that he is a solid player for years to come...

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 08:54 PM
I have no problem with the idea of bringing in playmakers.

But until I see these guys contribute on mre than 50% of snaps, then I see them as part time players.

They may be playmakers, but we needed fulltime playmakers.

Who would be a full time playmaker?

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2010, 08:56 PM
Who would be a full time playmaker?

Colquitt and Succop

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 08:58 PM
Colquitt and Succop


Well I am speachless...

milkman
04-26-2010, 09:02 PM
I think he's already evaluated the team and decided it was full of shit.

So he's jettisoning players and rebuilding as if there was never a team in existence before he arrived.

It's a ballsy move but hopefully it'll pay off.

I agree with that, but what I want to know is why the hell it took him an entire season to evaluate things, when it seemed to take Martin Mayhew and Jim Swartz just the couple of months leading up to last year's draft to make a reasonable evaluation and actually start to build that team last year?

The fucking executive of the decade should have done at least as good in the same amount of time.

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2010, 09:06 PM
I agree with that, but what I want to know is why the hell it took him an entire season to evaluate things, when it seemed to take Martin Mayhew and Jim Swartz just the couple of months leading up to last year's draft to make a reasonable evaluation and actually start to build that team last year?

The fucking executive of the decade should have done at least as good in the same amount of time.

I'm only guessing but I'd imagine that Pioli and his staff had never been witness to such a Mongolian clusterfuck that were the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.

milkman
04-26-2010, 09:06 PM
I agree with this... This is the make or break it year for Cassel... He doesnt have to be a pro bowl QB to have a long career here in KC... Yeah we were spoiled with Trent Green. But as long as he is top 10-15 the Chiefs can win alot of games with him..

He just has to get the ball in the hands of his playmakers and let them do the work... He doesnt have to win every game by himself... Even though people will be pissed if the Chiefs are 12-4 and Cassel isnt doing everything himself all the time. Like throwing and catching it too...

You know, it's really sad when we look at Trent Green, and say we were spoiled.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 09:07 PM
I'm only guessing but I'd imagine that Pioli and his staff had never been witness to such a Mongolian clusterfuck that were the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.

They created that Mongolian Clusterfuck by making 60+ transactions and only hitting on two.

That's nearly impossible to do.

Coogs
04-26-2010, 09:08 PM
I'm guessing that Charlie will do everything in his power to limit the decisions Cassel has to make.

If we all know that Cassel can't complete more than 40% of his passes thrown over 10 yards, you know Charlie knows and will do everything he can to mask that deficiency.

Where Weis is going to have to get creative, is that teams are going to sit on the underneath stuff and force us to go downfield - which will get ugly.

He has his work cut out for him. I'd be shocked if Cassel's stats aren't acceptable, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a better QB.

I mean, his name is Weis, not Houdini.

I agree totally. I think the opposing DC's are going to take away Charles/Thomas and the short passing game. I'm not real confident in Cassel to stretch that defense out either, but I am willing to be thrilled if he can do it on a regular basis.

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 09:09 PM
You know, it's really sad when we look at Trent Green, and say we were spoiled.

I am sorry, I should of said Grbac and Bono...


Green other than Montana was the best we had in KC since God invented Dirt...

Unlike many, I enjoyed watching Green play.. He wasnt a pussy...

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2010, 09:09 PM
They created that Mongolian Clusterfuck by making 60+ transactions and only hitting on two.

That's nearly impossible to do.

When your talent pool is limited to guys that know "The Way", I'd say it's pretty easy.

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2010, 09:09 PM
I am sorry, I should of said Grbac and Bono...


Green other than Montana was the best we had in KC since God invented Dirt...

Unlike many, I enjoyed watching Green play.. He wasnt a pussy...

No, he was just a big baby.

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 09:11 PM
When your talent pool is limited to guys that know "The Way", I'd say it's pretty easy.

Well its a process. Wether you like it or not, this is the first time since I have been a fan that the Chiefs actually are trying to build a superbowl contender... I have watched this team since 1987 and we seem to actually have a plan and seem to be sticking to it...

milkman
04-26-2010, 09:11 PM
Who would be a full time playmaker?

I was really high on Koa Misi going into this draft, and said somewhere along the line about 3 weeks ago some might think taking him at 36 would be too high, but I'd take him there.

Turns out, it really wasn't.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 09:12 PM
When your talent pool is limited to guys that know "The Way", I'd say it's pretty easy.

And there's the problem we all have.

It doesn't take 5 years to rebuild - UNLESS you're limiting the talent pool even further by invoking some dumbass rhetoric like "The Right 53."

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 09:12 PM
No, he was just a big baby.

That would drop the hammer on a CB when he needed to lead block for Holmes...

He was DV's little baby..

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2010, 09:13 PM
Well its a process. Wether you like it or not, this is the first time since I have been a fan that the Chiefs actually are trying to build a superbowl contender... I have watched this team since 1987 and we seem to actually have a plan and seem to be sticking to it...

No, like I've over the past three days, I think I've got this whole thing figured out.

And whether I like it or not, doesn't really matter. This is the way they're building the team.

I'm going to sit back and try to enjoy ride and hope it works.

milkman
04-26-2010, 09:15 PM
I am sorry, I should of said Grbac and Bono...


Green other than Montana was the best we had in KC since God invented Dirt...

Unlike many, I enjoyed watching Green play.. He wasnt a pussy...

Don't get me wrong.

I liked watching him play also, and I respected his toughness, both with the ball in his hand, and after handoffs.

He was a football player.

But the fact is, he was a product of the system and a great O-Line, but not a guy I trusted in the clutch.

Was he the best QB since Montana.

Absolutely.

But he really wasn't a franchise level QB.

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2010, 09:15 PM
And there's the problem we all have.

It doesn't take 5 years to rebuild - UNLESS you're limiting the talent pool even further by invoking some dumbass rhetoric like "The Right 53."

Yep, and that's the realization I came to over the weekend: He's going to take all 5 years to build this team in his image, so comparisons to other franchises won't be valid.

I've come to accept this and hope it works.

Nothing else has worked for the past 39 years, so what's 2-3 more?

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 09:16 PM
No, like I've over the past three days, I think I've got this whole thing figured out.

And whether I like it or not, doesn't really matter. This is the way they're building the team.

I'm going to sit back and try to enjoy ride and hope it works.

Its all we can do... I am super excited about the upcoming season... It cant get any worse than what we endured the darkest of times from 2006-2008 with a clown to remain nameless...

milkman
04-26-2010, 09:17 PM
Well its a process. Wether you like it or not, this is the first time since I have been a fan that the Chiefs actually are trying to build a superbowl contender... I have watched this team since 1987 and we seem to actually have a plan and seem to be sticking to it...

Yeah, but where you should be getting the best brand new building block you can find, they still think they can get by with someone else's spare one.

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 09:17 PM
Don't get me wrong.

I liked watching him play also, and I respected his toughness, both with the ball in his hand, and after handoffs.

He was a football player.

But the fact is, he was a product of the system and a great O-Line, but not a guy I trusted in the clutch.

Was he the best QB since Montana.

Absolutely.

But he really wasn't a franchise level QB.

Agree 100%...

And were still a year or 5+ away from that. It all depends on Cassel.. He is going to push this franchise to that point or will become that QB...

Reerun_KC
04-26-2010, 09:18 PM
Yeah, but where you should be getting the best brand new building block you can find, they still think they can get by with someone else's spare one.

:clap:

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 09:30 PM
Yep, and that's the realization I came to over the weekend: He's going to take all 5 years to build this team in his image, so comparisons to other franchises won't be valid.

That's where we differ.

Just because he's taking an unorthodox approach doesn't allow him to get a pass, IMO.

If anything, it's MORE of a reason to compare "his way" to the way everyone else does it - getting the most talented players you can find, even if they aren't Boy Scouts.

Mr. Plow
04-27-2010, 07:50 AM
That's where we differ.

Just because he's taking an unorthodox approach doesn't allow him to get a pass, IMO.

If anything, it's MORE of a reason to compare "his way" to the way everyone else does it - getting the most talented players you can find, even if they aren't Boy Scouts.


I do understand your frustrations - but honestly, I gave Herm at least 2 years before I gave up, and I didn't like Herm from the get go.....I can handle giving Haley & company at least that much time before I give up on them.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2010, 08:49 AM
I do understand your frustrations - but honestly, I gave Herm at least 2 years before I gave up, and I didn't like Herm from the get go.....I can handle giving Haley & company at least that much time before I give up on them.

I haven't given up on them at all.

But I expect more from the Executive of the Decade than I expected from Carl fucking Peterson.

When he makes a good move (Berry, Asomoah) I'll give him credit. Which I've done.

When he does something stupid, like ignore the worst run defense in football in favor of specialty players, (Eagles scouting report wording) I'm going to criticize.

No more, no less.

Bunit
04-27-2010, 10:26 AM
That's where we differ.

Just because he's taking an unorthodox approach doesn't allow him to get a pass, IMO.

If anything, it's MORE of a reason to compare "his way" to the way everyone else does it - getting the most talented players you can find, even if they aren't Boy Scouts.

You tis a whiney ass bitch. The way everybody else does things? Lot's of teams don't get no dumb fuck players because they are dumb fucks. Chill homie, relax, breathe.

Pestilence
04-27-2010, 10:29 AM
You tis a whiney ass bitch. The way everybody else does things? Lot's of teams don't get no dumb fuck players because they are dumb fucks. Chill homie, relax, breathe.

Huh? :spock:

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2010, 10:32 AM
You tis a whiney ass bitch. The way everybody else does things? Lot's of teams don't get no dumb fuck players because they are dumb fucks. Chill homie, relax, breathe.

http://www.optimuscrime.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/english-motherfucker-do-you-speak-it.PNG

Bunit
04-27-2010, 10:38 AM
Can't see the picture brotha