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Pooch
04-26-2010, 06:58 AM
Is now a free agent!!

Ralphy Boy
04-26-2010, 07:00 AM
There is no way we will even attempt to right the wrong decision we made in 2002.

BossChief
04-26-2010, 07:03 AM
Sign me up.

Thanks for everything Ron Edwards!!!

KCChiefsMan
04-26-2010, 07:03 AM
sure, why not

Ralphy Boy
04-26-2010, 07:04 AM
It would be interesting to see how well Haynesworth can play the nose at 6'6" 350
and Henderson at 6'7" 335. To this point Haynesworth has definitely had the better career, but I'd be curious to see how well both would transition to a 3-4.

bevischief
04-26-2010, 07:07 AM
He has was offered through out the draft, wonder if this played into their plans for NT?

Hog Farmer
04-26-2010, 07:14 AM
It would be interesting to see how well Haynesworth can play the nose at 6'6" 350
and Henderson at 6'7" 335. To this point Haynesworth has definitely had the better career, but I'd be curious to see how well both would transition to a 3-4.

Haynesworth does not want to play in a 3-4. That's why he and Shanny aren't getting along.

Henderson would be an upgrade.

DumbHillbillies
04-26-2010, 07:15 AM
Haynesworth does not want to play in a 3-4. That's why he and Shanny aren't getting along.

Henderson would be an upgrade.

What choice does he have if skins keep him.

Ralphy Boy
04-26-2010, 07:16 AM
Haynesworth does not want to play in a 3-4. That's why he and Shanny aren't getting along.

Henderson would be an upgrade.

What he wants doesn't matter because Shanahan isn't trading him.

Pushead2
04-26-2010, 07:18 AM
sign him & Hailey / Pioli have their new deep threat Randy Moss clone.

Ralphy Boy
04-26-2010, 07:23 AM
sign him & Hailey / Pioli have their new deep threat Randy Moss clone.

Did you mean to post this on the Danario Alexander thread that was right below it?

jspchief
04-26-2010, 07:24 AM
What choice does he have if skins keep him.The choice to halfass his way through making millions of dollars.

DumbHillbillies
04-26-2010, 07:25 AM
go get him pioli

The Bad Guy
04-26-2010, 07:26 AM
Please just sign him.

ChiefMojo
04-26-2010, 07:27 AM
I've been keeping my mouth shut about the whole lack of picking up a NT bit in the draft due to this reason alone. I have a feeling Pioli is going to address our NT/LB issue through the players that get released from other teams.

Henderson is a very good example of this and there will be plenty more when training camps begins. I mean when you see guys like Henderson and Faneca come available... it is a good thing for the Chiefs.

Mr_Tomahawk
04-26-2010, 07:27 AM
How old is he?

KChiefs1
04-26-2010, 07:27 AM
Was he a team captain?

DumbHillbillies
04-26-2010, 07:27 AM
The choice to halfass his way through making millions of dollars.

I guess but he could make so much more busted his ass and not getting cut.

The Bad Guy
04-26-2010, 07:28 AM
Clint Ingram is also getting cut. He wouldn't be a terrible ILB for this team.

Ralphy Boy
04-26-2010, 07:30 AM
How old is he?

look it up lazy

DumbHillbillies
04-26-2010, 07:31 AM
How old is he?

31 you lazy fck.ROFL

Mr_Tomahawk
04-26-2010, 07:33 AM
:drool:

Ralphy Boy
04-26-2010, 07:33 AM
31 you lazy fck.ROFL

I love how his spinal cord issue meant that he was going to have a short playing career. 8 years later it doesn't seem to be much of an issue.

-King-
04-26-2010, 07:33 AM
Then we need someone willing to slap the shit out him before every game.



I volunteer.
Posted via Mobile Device

ChiefMojo
04-26-2010, 07:34 AM
31 years old isn't to bad to be honest. As long has he has some gas left in the tank, he will be more than great for a team like KC.

suds79
04-26-2010, 07:37 AM
Wow. Didn't know he became available.

Sign him right now. :thumb:

Hog Farmer
04-26-2010, 07:40 AM
I've been keeping my mouth shut about the whole lack of picking up a NT bit in the draft due to this reason alone. I have a feeling Pioli is going to address our NT/LB issue through the players that get released from other teams.

Henderson is a very good example of this and there will be plenty more when training camps begins. I mean when you see guys like Henderson and Faneca come available... it is a good thing for the Chiefs.


Not if they're picked up by the Chargers/Raiders/Broncos !

TRR
04-26-2010, 07:44 AM
Does Henderson want to play NT??
Posted via Mobile Device

ChiefMojo
04-26-2010, 07:52 AM
That is the problem with Henderson... is he really a NT? He has the size, mean streak, and athletic ability, but the guy is 6'7". I think Ted Washington was 6'5" and played NT, but most NT's aren't that tall. Then again the Chiefs are in the position they could bring in Henderson to play NT and hope for the best... at worst you have yourself another big 5-Tech/3-Tech DE.

HotRoute
04-26-2010, 07:55 AM
Get him signed by the end of the day!

DTLB58
04-26-2010, 08:11 AM
How many times does Pioli have to tell
the fan base we don't need to add any
DL players/ talent to this team cause we have
Romeo!

Sure-Oz
04-26-2010, 08:14 AM
Please get this guy here

Sure-Oz
04-26-2010, 08:24 AM
Jaguars say goodbye to Big John Henderson


Henderson
The Jaguars are expected to release DT John Henderson Monday, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter.
Changes are afoot in Jacksonville. The team will also withdraw their restricted free agent tender to linebacker Clint Ingram, making him an unrestricted free agent. Henderson was replaced on draft day by Tyson Alualu, while Ingram was displaced by Kirk Morrison. Henderson should get a job shortly; he's still competent. Apr. 26 - 8:26 am et

I'd think Ingram is worth a look?

suds79
04-26-2010, 08:36 AM
Does Henderson want to play NT??
Posted via Mobile Device

He does if the $$ is right. ;)

Julius Peppers was saying he wanted to play in a 3-4 and we see how that worked out.

KCChiefsMan
04-26-2010, 08:38 AM
That is the problem with Henderson... is he really a NT? He has the size, mean streak, and athletic ability, but the guy is 6'7". I think Ted Washington was 6'5" and played NT, but most NT's aren't that tall. Then again the Chiefs are in the position they could bring in Henderson to play NT and hope for the best... at worst you have yourself another big 5-Tech/3-Tech DE.

ya know, this whole 5-tech/3 tech stuff can be a little overrated

a good player is a good player

SIGN HIM!!!

Ralphy Boy
04-26-2010, 08:43 AM
ya know, this whole 5-tech/3 tech stuff can be a little overrated

a good player is a good player

SIGN HIM!!!

THIS

DBOSHO
04-26-2010, 08:49 AM
I want this guy on our team so bad. He would blow ALOT of plays the fuck up.

DeezNutz
04-26-2010, 09:04 AM
We should evaluate him.

It's a process.

Pestilence
04-26-2010, 09:04 AM
Jaguars say goodbye to Big John Henderson


Henderson
The Jaguars are expected to release DT John Henderson Monday, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter.
Changes are afoot in Jacksonville. The team will also withdraw their restricted free agent tender to linebacker Clint Ingram, making him an unrestricted free agent. Henderson was replaced on draft day by Tyson Alualu, while Ingram was displaced by Kirk Morrison. Henderson should get a job shortly; he's still competent. Apr. 26 - 8:26 am et

I'd think Ingram is worth a look?

I would take Henderson and Ingram on this team.....in a fucking heartbeat.

salame
04-26-2010, 09:41 AM
I really want them to bring in henderson

bevischief
04-26-2010, 09:48 AM
Sign him now!

boogblaster
04-26-2010, 09:50 AM
Sign about 4 NTs ..play them in shifts ...

Bill Lundberg
04-26-2010, 10:08 AM
BobGlauber (http://twitter.com/BobGlauber)
RT @newsdaygiants (http://twitter.com/newsdaygiants): Agent for DT John Henderson spoke to the Giants as both sides were "exploring options." JH sked to visit Chiefs tomorrow.

Pestilence
04-26-2010, 10:10 AM
BobGlauber (http://twitter.com/BobGlauber)
RT @newsdaygiants (http://twitter.com/newsdaygiants): Agent for DT John Henderson spoke to the Giants as both sides were "exploring options." JH sked to visit Chiefs tomorrow.

Please get John Henderson......at least we'd have someone good at NT on this team.

The Bad Guy
04-26-2010, 10:10 AM
Well if we are bringing him in tomorrow I'd imagine we'll get him.

That might force Dorsey to the nose. I don't think JH can play the nose.

Sure-Oz
04-26-2010, 10:11 AM
BobGlauber (http://twitter.com/BobGlauber)
RT @newsdaygiants (http://twitter.com/newsdaygiants): Agent for DT John Henderson spoke to the Giants as both sides were "exploring options." JH sked to visit Chiefs tomorrow.

Hope the visit goes well tomorrow! glad he is atleast scheduled

The Bad Guy
04-26-2010, 10:11 AM
Lundberg, I always get excited when I see you've posted in a thread. You are the Twitter master.

Bill Lundberg
04-26-2010, 10:13 AM
Lundberg, I always get excited when I see you've posted in a thread. You are the Twitter master.

Thanks man, Glauber is usually right on top of these things.

ChiefMojo
04-26-2010, 10:15 AM
I think we are finding our reason why Pioli didn't draft a NT. I think he knew the Big Cat was going to be released and had him targeted to be our NT. Hope we get him wrapped up as he is a definite upgrade and a player we should have likely had instead of Ryan freaking Sims!!!

Bill Lundberg
04-26-2010, 10:16 AM
I think we are finding our reason why Pioli didn't draft a NT. I think he knew the Big Cat was going to be released and had him targeted to be our NT. Hope we get him wrapped up as he is a definite upgrade and a player we should have likely had instead of Ryan freaking Sims!!!

Speaking of Sims, he's available again as well.

http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/244826293/tam_normal.gif (http://twitter.com/Bucs_News) Bucs_News (http://twitter.com/Bucs_News) Ryan Sims / The Buccaneers have been shopping Sims but have found no takers so far, the St. Petersburg http://fsp.gs/diiMYF #NFL (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23NFL) #TB (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23TB)

ETA: I should also note that I have an autographed Ryan Sims football for sale from his rookie year. Would anyone be able to cough up a can of pop for it? I'll start the bidding at 65 cents.

CoMoChief
04-26-2010, 10:22 AM
I've been keeping my mouth shut about the whole lack of picking up a NT bit in the draft due to this reason alone. I have a feeling Pioli is going to address our NT/LB issue through the players that get released from other teams.

Henderson is a very good example of this and there will be plenty more when training camps begins. I mean when you see guys like Henderson and Faneca come available... it is a good thing for the Chiefs.

Faneca is a guard. A position where 1: we already have a high priced veteran there in Waters, and we also picked up Lilja. If Faneca is going to play anywhere he's going to start. There's just not any room for him here being a backup, unless Lilja becomes a center, but even then we got Weigmann back.

Ralphy Boy
04-26-2010, 10:23 AM
[QUOTE=Bill Lundberg;6715579]Speaking of Sims, he's available again as well.

http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/244826293/tam_normal.gif (http://twitter.com/Bucs_News) Bucs_News (http://twitter.com/Bucs_News) Ryan Sims / The Buccaneers have been shopping Sims but have found no takers so far, the St. Petersburg http://fsp.gs/diiMYF #NFL (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23NFL) #TB (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23TB)

QUOTE]


Waiting for it....

Woodrow Call
04-26-2010, 10:26 AM
BobGlauber (http://twitter.com/BobGlauber)
RT @newsdaygiants (http://twitter.com/newsdaygiants): Agent for DT John Henderson spoke to the Giants as both sides were "exploring options." JH sked to visit Chiefs tomorrow.

Oh mama, Jackson, Dorsey, Henderson :drool:

ChiefMojo
04-26-2010, 10:27 AM
CoMo I wasn't meaning for us to bring in Faneca, but more so the caliber of players available. Since that post, a lot of quality players are there to be had. Doesn't mean we will bring in many of them, but the quality is there.

As for Henderson... I would bring him in as a NT first. If he doesn't work there, move him outside to Dorsey's spot and move Dorsey in.

dirk digler
04-26-2010, 10:28 AM
It will be interesting to see if he wants to play NT. If the Chiefs like him they should overpay

Count Zarth
04-26-2010, 10:28 AM
I wonder where this guy would fit. You don't see many 6-7 nose tackles. He's long enough that they might try him at DE.

EyePod
04-26-2010, 10:31 AM
Was he a team captain?

LOL

The Bad Guy
04-26-2010, 10:31 AM
I really think if he comes here Dorsey is moving to the nose. Jax used a 3-4 last year and used a rookie from Temple at NT.

EyePod
04-26-2010, 10:32 AM
I wonder where this guy would fit. You don't see many 6-7 nose tackles. He's long enough that they might try him at DE.

He played some games at DE last season.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=3&surn=H&playerid=1017

dirk digler
04-26-2010, 10:32 AM
I really think if he comes here Dorsey is moving to the nose. Jax used a 3-4 last year and used a rookie from Temple at NT.

Interesting I didn't realize Jax used a 3-4.

Mr. Laz
04-26-2010, 10:33 AM
Report: DT John Henderson Visiting The Chiefs Tomorrow

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/profile_images/240996/headshot_tiny.jpg by Joel Thorman (http://www.sbnation.com/users/Joel%20Thorman) on Apr 26, 2010 9:18 AM PDT (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/4/26/1445034/report-dt-john-henderson-visiting) in 2010 Campaign (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/section/2010-campaign) http://cdn3.sbnation.com/images/icons/comment.v1599.png 32 comments, 32 new
http://cdn1.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/366527/54840_chiefs_jaguars_football.jpg (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/photos/report-dt-john-henderson-visiting) More photos (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/photos/report-dt-john-henderson-visiting) Phil Coale - AP
5 months ago: Jacksonville Jaguars defensive tackle John Henderson, right, rushes Kansas City Chiefs quarterback Matt Cassel for the sack during the fourth quarter of an NFL football game, Sunday, Nov. 8, 2009, in Jacksonville, Fla. Jacksonville won 24-21. (AP Photo/Phil Coale)

Browse more photos (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/photos/report-dt-john-henderson-visiting)

You said you were worried that the Chiefs (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/KAN) didn't take a nose tackle in the 2010 NFL draft?
Well, maybe this is why they didn't.
Tom Rock of Newsday reports DT John Henderson (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/2440/John_Henderson) is scheduled to visit the Chiefs tomorrow (http://twitter.com/newsdaygiants/status/12890617836).
http://cdn1.sbnation.com/images/blog/star-divide.v5547.jpg
Henderson, 31, was released from the Jaguars (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/JAC) this morning. SB Nation's Big Cat Country says the "writing has been on the wall (http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2010/4/26/1444636/report-jacksonville-jaguars-will)" since the Jags drafted three defensive tackles in the last two drafts. He was reportedly on the trade block over the weekend, which might explain why the Chiefs chose to ignore nose tackle in the draft.
He's a massive 6'7", 328 pound defensive tackle. He's played in the Jaguars 4-3 defense since they made him the ninth overall pick in the 2002 draft.
I'm not sure why a 31-year old veteran would be interested in a position switch, especially a switch to nose tackle, which is arguably the most physically demanding position in football.
The Chiefs could choose to make up his mind for him with a big contract offer.
The Chiefs have Ron Edwards (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/2363/Ron_Edwards), Shaun Smith and Dion Gales (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/78013/Dion_Gales) as the only nose tackles on the roster.
He's missed just eight starts in his eight year career.
(H/T nycchief for the first FanShot)

EyePod
04-26-2010, 10:33 AM
He played some games at DE last season.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=3&surn=H&playerid=1017

Am I right in guessing that the Jaguars ran a 3-4 and a 4-3 last season?

philfree
04-26-2010, 10:34 AM
We can't sign just him alone. We'll also have to bring in the guy who slaps the shit ouf him before games.

PhilFree:arrow:

Bill Lundberg
04-26-2010, 10:36 AM
Am I right in guessing that the Jaguars ran a 3-4 and a 4-3 last season?

Yes, they confused the Chiefs who had been preparing for a 4-3 all week only to show up on Sunday and face a 3-4.

58kcfan89
04-26-2010, 10:36 AM
I really think if he comes here Dorsey is moving to the nose. Jax used a 3-4 last year and used a rookie from Temple at NT.

Gawd, I hope we don't move Dorsey inside. Coming out of college, his best asset was using his quickness to get to the QB. If we put him at NT (designed to take up blocks), it pretty much negates his strength.

If we're that desperate for a NT (which, admittedly, we are), go sign some UDFA fatass to clog up the middle. Using Dorsey for that would be a waste of his talents.

And yes, I'm one of those people who still believes he can be a damn good DE in a 3-4....

eazyb81
04-26-2010, 10:36 AM
Bad Guy is right, I don't think Henderson will be coming here to play nose. If anything, this would move Dorsey to NT and Henderson would slide to DE. Henderson is too tall for nose.

DJ's left nut
04-26-2010, 10:37 AM
Report: DT John Henderson Visiting The Chiefs Tomorrow

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/profile_images/240996/headshot_tiny.jpg by Joel Thorman (http://www.sbnation.com/users/Joel%20Thorman) on Apr 26, 2010 9:18 AM PDT (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/4/26/1445034/report-dt-john-henderson-visiting) in 2010 Campaign (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/section/2010-campaign) http://cdn3.sbnation.com/images/icons/comment.v1599.png 32 comments, 32 new
http://cdn1.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/366527/54840_chiefs_jaguars_football.jpg (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/photos/report-dt-john-henderson-visiting) More photos (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/photos/report-dt-john-henderson-visiting) Phil Coale - AP
5 months ago: Jacksonville Jaguars defensive tackle John Henderson, right, rushes Kansas City Chiefs quarterback Matt Cassel for the sack during the fourth quarter of an NFL football game, Sunday, Nov. 8, 2009, in Jacksonville, Fla. Jacksonville won 24-21. (AP Photo/Phil Coale)

Browse more photos (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/photos/report-dt-john-henderson-visiting)

You said you were worried that the Chiefs (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/KAN) didn't take a nose tackle in the 2010 NFL draft?
Well, maybe this is why they didn't.
Tom Rock of Newsday reports DT John Henderson (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/2440/John_Henderson) is scheduled to visit the Chiefs tomorrow (http://twitter.com/newsdaygiants/status/12890617836).
http://cdn1.sbnation.com/images/blog/star-divide.v5547.jpg
Henderson, 31, was released from the Jaguars (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/JAC) this morning. SB Nation's Big Cat Country says the "writing has been on the wall (http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2010/4/26/1444636/report-jacksonville-jaguars-will)" since the Jags drafted three defensive tackles in the last two drafts. He was reportedly on the trade block over the weekend, which might explain why the Chiefs chose to ignore nose tackle in the draft.
He's a massive 6'7", 328 pound defensive tackle. He's played in the Jaguars 4-3 defense since they made him the ninth overall pick in the 2002 draft.
I'm not sure why a 31-year old veteran would be interested in a position switch, especially a switch to nose tackle, which is arguably the most physically demanding position in football. The Chiefs could choose to make up his mind for him with a big contract offer.
The Chiefs have Ron Edwards (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/2363/Ron_Edwards), Shaun Smith and Dion Gales (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/78013/Dion_Gales) as the only nose tackles on the roster.
He's missed just eight starts in his eight year career.
(H/T nycchief for the first FanShot)

Because I think of NT's aging far better than your typical DTs in a 4-3.

In the Pats style of 3-4, the NT pretty much just needs to be a mammoth MFer that gets in the way of people. Henderson could do that for another 3-4 years with pretty decent success, IMO.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 10:38 AM
We can't sign just him alone. We'll also have to bring in the guy who slaps the shit ouf him before games.

PhilFree:arrow:

That might be your best post ever.

ROFL

EyePod
04-26-2010, 10:40 AM
Gawd, I hope we don't move Dorsey inside. Coming out of college, his best asset was using his quickness to get to the QB. If we put him at NT (designed to take up blocks), it pretty much negates his strength.

If we're that desperate for a NT (which, admittedly, we are), go sign some UDFA fatass to clog up the middle. Using Dorsey for that would be a waste of his talents.

And yes, I'm one of those people who still believes he can be a damn good DE in a 3-4....

There are plays where you throw him inside at NT to allow for a more mobile NT (obvious passing downs) and that way we have him on the field all 3 downs.

Ralphy Boy
04-26-2010, 10:43 AM
Wow. I just realized that I've been an angry Chiefs fan ever since we didn't draft Henderson in favor of Sims in 2002.

I've been angry after every draft except 2008, ironically the year I've paid the least bit of attention to it.

I guess that means that if I would pay less attention to the draft I would like my team better. Basically ignorance is bliss.

Bill Lundberg
04-26-2010, 10:44 AM
There are plays where you throw him inside at NT to allow for a more mobile NT (obvious passing downs) and that way we have him on the field all 3 downs.

He's not really a 3 down player. Jacksonville used him primarily on 1st and 2nd down last year. The departure of Stroud to Jacksonville hurt his production.

ChiefMojo
04-26-2010, 10:46 AM
I think you could see Dorsey and Henderson being inner-changeable. Remember Dallas plays a smaller one-gap NT in Ratliff. With Tyson Jackson and the Big Cat taking up space on the outside, that would allow Dorsey the chance to get up field as more of a pass rusher from the NT spot.

Micjones
04-26-2010, 10:46 AM
We can't sign just him alone. We'll also have to bring in the guy who slaps the shit ouf him before games.

PhilFree:arrow:

They can hire me to slap the shit out of Pioli (before games) for needing to sign John Henderson in the first place.

EyePod
04-26-2010, 10:47 AM
Yes, they confused the Chiefs who had been preparing for a 4-3 all week only to show up on Sunday and face a 3-4.

I found the reference, it was the other way around:

Jaguars return to 4-3 roots

http://www.jaguars.com/news/article.aspx?id=8399


Apparently, the Jags were running a 3-4 first half of the season, were playing terribly, and then switched to a 4-3 and owned us.

Bill Lundberg
04-26-2010, 10:48 AM
I found the reference, it was the other way around:

Jaguars return to 4-3 roots

http://www.jaguars.com/news/article.aspx?id=8399


Apparently, the Jags were running a 3-4 first half of the season, were playing terribly, and then switched to a 4-3 and owned us.

I've been known to be a little lisdexic

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 10:50 AM
They can hire me to slap the shit out of Pioli (before games) for needing to sign John Henderson in the first place.

This.

The Bad Guy
04-26-2010, 10:54 AM
This.

Yep. We could have had Cody who will be lucky to play 20 snaps a game.

BigRedChief
04-26-2010, 10:54 AM
How many time has be volunteered at the soup kitchen or built homes for the homeless?

BigChiefFan
04-26-2010, 10:55 AM
He's a little long in the tooth, but the guy was a dominant player at one point. I hope he's ready to make a name for himself, again. We could definitely use a wiley, veteran to help with our D-Line.

DJ's left nut
04-26-2010, 10:56 AM
How many time has be volunteered at the soup kitchen or built homes for the homeless?

More critically, does he shine the Jags helmets?

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 10:57 AM
Yep. We could have had Cody who will be lucky to play 20 snaps a game.

What NT plays all three downs, Frank?

You keep ignoring the point people are trying to make.

If you're going to use a high pick on a part time player, use it for the player who plays a position of greater need. Slot WR was NOT a desperate need on this roster.

FTR, I've been in the camp all along that we could get a NT late in the draft. My beef is that there were ILB's and OLB's available that would have solidified the defense for a decade, and we passed.

Pioli has much more faith in Mays, Williams, DJ and Vrabel than I do.

the Talking Can
04-26-2010, 10:58 AM
It will be interesting to see if he wants to play NT. If the Chiefs like him they should overpay

seriously


i don't want to hear that we lost him because of 3-4 mill difference total on a contract

our payroll is a farce, and he's at worst a decent rotational body, at best a significant upgrade


fork it over

Micjones
04-26-2010, 10:58 AM
I'll take Clint Ingram too once he's released. Just turned 27.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-26-2010, 10:59 AM
How many time has be volunteered at the soup kitchen or built homes for the homeless?

Yeah, wanting young players that will resist picking up on the bad things in the NFL that might sidetrack their career is a bad thing. Because we don't see selfish players come to the NFL with loads of talent, get paid, and then bust. Nope. That never happens.

Henderson is a seasoned vet. He isn't a choir boy, nor is he a candidate for NFL MOTY..... but chiefs aren't poliana's they are just pragmatic.

Henderson will make a good end. That will allow Dorsey to drop into NT position.

Sully
04-26-2010, 10:59 AM
He's not really a 3 down player. Jacksonville used him primarily on 1st and 2nd down last year. The departure of Stroud to Jacksonville hurt his production.

Doesn't really matter. We tend to only use two down linemen on passing downs, anyway.

Pestilence
04-26-2010, 11:00 AM
I'll take Clint Ingram too once he's released. Just turned 27.

This. I'll take both Henderson and Ingram.

Micjones
04-26-2010, 11:01 AM
The real question is...
Are we sure Glenn Dorsey is physical and strong enough to be an effective Nose?

The Bad Guy
04-26-2010, 11:01 AM
What NT plays all three downs, Frank?

You keep ignoring the point people are trying to make.

If you're going to use a high pick on a part time player, use it for the player who plays a position of greater need. Slot WR was NOT a desperate need on this roster.

FTR, I've been in the camp all along that we could get a NT late in the draft. My beef is that there were ILB's and OLB's available that would have solidified the defense for a decade, and we passed.

Pioli has much more faith in Mays, Williams, DJ and Vrabel than I do.


I'll absolutely disagree with you that slot receiver was not a need. We have a coach who loves to be in 3 receiver sets most of the time. Last year, our devistating slot receivers were Lance Long and Bobby Wade.

I also think they are moving Dorsey to nose and playing a 3-4 defense close to the one that Dallas plays. We'll see about that.

The Bad Guy
04-26-2010, 11:02 AM
The real question is...
Are we sure Glenn Dorsey is physical and strong enough to be an effective Nose?

I always thought in college he was an ideal NT, but who knows.

I think he's strong enough no doubt, but his technique has to improve. This is where Romeo can really help.

Pestilence
04-26-2010, 11:03 AM
Hasn't Romeo always coached the opposite of the Dallas 3-4?

Micjones
04-26-2010, 11:04 AM
I always thought in college he was an ideal NT, but who knows.

I think he's strong enough no doubt, but his technique has to improve. This is where Romeo can really help.

Also, what does this say about their confidence in Alex Magee?
I'm all for the signing by the way. I'm stoked that the Chiefs moved on him so quickly.

BigRedChief
04-26-2010, 11:04 AM
I also think they are moving Dorsey to nose and playing a 3-4 defense close to the one that Dallas plays. We'll see about that.Hearing the same thing about Dorsey to NT or at least trying it.

philfree
04-26-2010, 11:06 AM
I'll absolutely disagree with you that slot receiver was not a need. We have a coach who loves to be in 3 receiver sets most of the time. Last year, our devistating slot receivers were Lance Long and Bobby Wade.

I also think they are moving Dorsey to nose and playing a 3-4 defense close to the one that Dallas plays. We'll see about that.

Slot reciever was definately a need and we won't know till the games are played but IMO McCluster will be more than a part time player.


PhilFree:arrow:

HemiEd
04-26-2010, 11:09 AM
Speaking of Sims, he's available again as well.

http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/244826293/tam_normal.gif (http://twitter.com/Bucs_News) Bucs_News (http://twitter.com/Bucs_News) Ryan Sims / The Buccaneers have been shopping Sims but have found no takers so far, the St. Petersburg http://fsp.gs/diiMYF #NFL (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23NFL) #TB (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23TB)

ETA: I should also note that I have an autographed Ryan Sims football for sale from his rookie year. Would anyone be able to cough up a can of pop for it? I'll start the bidding at 65 cents.
Wouldn't Sims be an ideal NT? He could eat his way to success.
Henderson is a little tall at 6'7" right?

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 11:09 AM
I'll absolutely disagree with you that slot receiver was not a need. We have a coach who loves to be in 3 receiver sets most of the time. Last year, our devistating slot receivers were Lance Long and Bobby Wade.

I also think they are moving Dorsey to nose and playing a 3-4 defense close to the one that Dallas plays. We'll see about that.

Goddammit, Frank.

Every position on the roster was a "need."

I know you're smart enough to be able to prioritize, determine what were REALLY important needs (NT, ILB, OLB, S, OL, WR1/2) and what were much lessor needs. (NCB, WR3, LT, RB, TE)

Give up 160 yards rushing a game, or acquire a slot WR with front 7 help at all three positions of need on the board without reaching?

Easy decision for me, but Pioli thinks otherwise.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 11:09 AM
I'll take Clint Ingram too once he's released. Just turned 27.

Yep. Immediate upgrade at ILB.

BigChiefFan
04-26-2010, 11:09 AM
I think I'd rather see Jackson in the middle and keep Dorsey and Henderson on the outside.

Micjones
04-26-2010, 11:10 AM
Yep. Immediate upgrade at ILB.

He hasn't been released yet though, right?

Pestilence
04-26-2010, 11:11 AM
He hasn't been released yet though, right?

The withdrew their RFA offer.....so he's now a free agent.

Jaguars say goodbye to Big John Henderson


Henderson
The Jaguars are expected to release DT John Henderson Monday, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter.
Changes are afoot in Jacksonville. The team will also withdraw their restricted free agent tender to linebacker Clint Ingram, making him an unrestricted free agent. Henderson was replaced on draft day by Tyson Alualu, while Ingram was displaced by Kirk Morrison. Henderson should get a job shortly; he's still competent. Apr. 26 - 8:26 am et

I'd think Ingram is worth a look?

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 11:11 AM
Hasn't Romeo always coached the opposite of the Dallas 3-4?

This.

I have no clue where people are getting the idea we're moving to a Dallas-like 34 scheme.

And God help us if we do, because that scheme exposes your LB's even more.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 11:11 AM
He hasn't been released yet though, right?

They withdrew his tender, so he is officially a UFA.

BigRedChief
04-26-2010, 11:13 AM
This.

I have no clue where people are getting the idea we're moving to a Dallas-like 34 scheme.

And God help us if we do, because that scheme exposes your LB's even more.I haven't heard anything about a Dalla 3-4 scheme change. Only that they were going to try Dorsey at NT and see what happens. The way it come off to me was an experiment in off season workouts without pads to see if its even feasible.

suds79
04-26-2010, 11:14 AM
I really think the height thing is overrated. Just get guys who can play.

Glenn Dorsey was too short to play DE remember?

Now John might be too tall to play NT.

Well Glenn was our best D-linemen last year and made good strides from his first year.

And if John is too tall for the position, then I'd love for teams to believe that and leave the center alone (and not double team him) to try to block him... That would be fantastic.

notorious
04-26-2010, 11:15 AM
This.

I have no clue where people are getting the idea we're moving to a Dallas-like 34 scheme.

And God help us if we do, because that scheme exposes your LB's even more.

It is a lot of fun to watch a team with the proper players run a Dallas 3-4.


Someday we might have the proper players.


As for now.......ROFL

Pestilence
04-26-2010, 11:15 AM
I haven't heard anything about a Dalla 3-4 scheme change. Only that they were going to try Dorsey at NT and see what happens. The way it come off to me was an experiment in off season workouts without pads to see if its even feasible.

Sweet....another position switch for Dorsey. If I'm him....I'm demanding a trade. This team has never utilized him properly.

notorious
04-26-2010, 11:16 AM
Sweet....another position switch for Dorsey. If I'm him....I'm demanding a trade. This team has never utilized him properly.

This, it is getting fucking irritating so say the least.


He could have been the best 4-3 DT to ever walk the planet, but we keep fucking it up my moving him. Next thing you know, he will be playing QB.

BigRedChief
04-26-2010, 11:17 AM
Sweet....another position switch for Dorsey. If I'm him....I'm demanding a trade. This team has never utilized him properly.Just another bs rumor. No worries yet.

Woodrow Call
04-26-2010, 11:18 AM
Goddammit, Frank.

Every position on the roster was a "need."

I know you're smart enough to be able to prioritize, determine what were REALLY important needs (NT, ILB, OLB, S, OL, WR1/2) and what were much lessor needs. (NCB, WR3, LT, RB, TE)

Give up 160 yards rushing a game, or acquire a slot WR with front 7 help at all three positions of need on the board without reaching?

Easy decision for me, but Pioli thinks otherwise.

No it wasn't look at your own damn Chiefs draft. You went Gilyard and Jones with Thomas, Troup, Joseph, and Lee on the board. Outside of Hughes in the 2nd your draft is everything you are mad at Pioli about.
Posted via Mobile Device

HemiEd
04-26-2010, 11:20 AM
I think I'd rather see Jackson in the middle and keep Dorsey and Henderson on the outside.

I agree, and he played it some last year.

notorious
04-26-2010, 11:21 AM
I agree, and he played it some last year.

Jackson has enough money in his account to eat his way up to 375 in no-time.

Bane
04-26-2010, 11:23 AM
This, it is getting fucking irritating so say the least.


He could have been the best 4-3 DT to ever walk the planet, but we keep fucking it up my moving him. Next thing you know, he will be playing QB.

I'd be willing to give him a shot!Hell make him a FB and JC could hit 350-400 yards against the Donks! Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Posted via Mobile Device

JASONSAUTO
04-26-2010, 11:23 AM
No it wasn't look at your own damn Chiefs draft. You went Gilyard and Jones with Thomas, Troup, Joseph, and Lee on the board. Outside of Hughes in the 2nd your draft is everything you are mad at Pioli about.
Posted via Mobile Device

almost to a T

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 11:24 AM
No it wasn't look at your own damn Chiefs draft. You went Gilyard and Jones with Thomas, Troup, Joseph, and Lee on the board. Outside of Hughes in the 2nd your draft is everything you are mad at Pioli about.
Posted via Mobile Device

Go read my response, I think it's pretty clear why I did what I did.

JASONSAUTO
04-26-2010, 11:27 AM
Go read my response, I think it's pretty clear why I did what I did.

then it should be pretty clear why pioli did what he did.....

Micjones
04-26-2010, 11:28 AM
They withdrew his tender, so he is officially a UFA.

Good shit. Hopefully he'll be scheduled in some time this week as well.

patteeu
04-26-2010, 11:29 AM
Report: DT John Henderson Visiting The Chiefs Tomorrow

...He's missed just eight starts in his eight year career.

That's interesting. Wasn't he the guy who had a suspected back problem the year he, Sims, Haynesworth, and Bryant were drafted?

SenselessChiefsFan
04-26-2010, 11:35 AM
Sweet....another position switch for Dorsey. If I'm him....I'm demanding a trade. This team has never utilized him properly.

Yeah, but he isn't a whiny bitch, so he's fine.

Woodrow Call
04-26-2010, 11:39 AM
Go read my response, I think it's pretty clear why I did what I did.

This may be the first draft class we haven't seen eye to eye on should be fun to see how it turns out. Thanks for the explanation.
Posted via Mobile Device

EyePod
04-26-2010, 11:40 AM
What NT plays all three downs, Frank?

You keep ignoring the point people are trying to make.

If you're going to use a high pick on a part time player, use it for the player who plays a position of greater need. Slot WR was NOT a desperate need on this roster.

FTR, I've been in the camp all along that we could get a NT late in the draft. My beef is that there were ILB's and OLB's available that would have solidified the defense for a decade, and we passed.

Pioli has much more faith in Mays, Williams, DJ and Vrabel than I do.

My issues are the Mays and Williams much more than the DJ and Vrabel, although Vrabel is definitely showing his age.

Oh, and don't get me started on Andy Studebaker. I trust Studebaker as much as I can throw him. He's a solid 248, so I'd be happy if I could knock him over when he wasn't paying attention and a friend was on all fours right behind him.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 11:43 AM
This may be the first draft class we haven't seen eye to eye on should be fun to see how it turns out. Thanks for the explanation.
Posted via Mobile Device

No problem.

Does it make sense, or are you dismissing it, like I expect certain other posters to do?

Inquiring minds what to know.

:D

EyePod
04-26-2010, 11:44 AM
I'll absolutely disagree with you that slot receiver was not a need. We have a coach who loves to be in 3 receiver sets most of the time. Last year, our devistating slot receivers were Lance Long and Bobby Wade.

I also think they are moving Dorsey to nose and playing a 3-4 defense close to the one that Dallas plays. We'll see about that.

*Crosses Fingers* The only thing that sucks is that we have no way to rush the passer like Dallas does. Hali is no Ware...

ChiefaRoo
04-26-2010, 11:46 AM
*Crosses Fingers* The only thing that sucks is that we have no way to rush the passer like Dallas does. Hali is no Ware...

We have Uranas coming on the nickel blitz.

Basileus777
04-26-2010, 11:46 AM
Henderson isn't a NT, he's a DE. He's too tall and plays too high to ever be an effective NT in a 3-4.

EyePod
04-26-2010, 11:47 AM
Goddammit, Frank.

Every position on the roster was a "need."

I know you're smart enough to be able to prioritize, determine what were REALLY important needs (NT, ILB, OLB, S, OL, WR1/2) and what were much lessor needs. (NCB, WR3, LT, RB, TE)

Give up 160 yards rushing a game, or acquire a slot WR with front 7 help at all three positions of need on the board without reaching?

Easy decision for me, but Pioli thinks otherwise.

I don't know if you remember Arizona in Haley's last year, but they were one of the first teams in a while to have 3 receivers with over 1000 yards the last year that Haley was in it. Fitz, Boldin, and Breaston all had over 1000 yards. So all 3 receivers are really important for Haley. And that's why we're not as worried about our run defense. We plan on having an explosive offense and a lockdown secondary (who also is improved in the tackling realm). We're gonna force teams to pass against us since we will always be running and gunning on the offensive side of the ball.

RustShack
04-26-2010, 11:51 AM
*Crosses Fingers* The only thing that sucks is that we have no way to rush the passer like Dallas does. Hali is no Ware...

Hali was second in the NFL in QB pressures behind Ware... but doesn't Dallas want to get a traditional NT and move Ratlif to DE? Why would we want to run a scheme that they know isn't as good?

EyePod
04-26-2010, 11:58 AM
Hali was second in the NFL in QB pressures behind Ware... but doesn't Dallas want to get a traditional NT and move Ratlif to DE? Why would we want to run a scheme that they know isn't as good?

Ware had 20 more (56) than Hali (36). I mean, it's still good and everything, but we don't have to run the same exact scheme as any one team. Maybe we have better personnel to run the scheme that uses a more mobile NT?

rwalke10
04-26-2010, 11:58 AM
Speaking of Sims, he's available again as well.

ETA: I should also note that I have an autographed Ryan Sims football for sale from his rookie year. Would anyone be able to cough up a can of pop for it? I'll start the bidding at 65 cents.


Scrub the name off and I'll bid a dollar...

Woodrow Call
04-26-2010, 12:11 PM
No problem.

Does it make sense, or are you dismissing it, like I expect certain other posters to do?

Inquiring minds what to know.

:D

Made sense to me, logical explanations of each pick.

:thumb:

GoHuge
04-26-2010, 12:21 PM
I still think everyone needs to chill. With no salary cap implications this year teams are going to be blowing quality players out to save money. Pioli isn't a damn dummie. Didn't address the front seven over the weekend. Why...........have anything to do with knowing Henderson was coming in Tuesday? I'm going to say yes. Still alot of offseason yet to go and we brought in several RFA's that people think will make and help this team. I know this goes against the fabric of what Chiefplanet is, but lets just wait and see how the next six weeks unfold. Got a feeling the Chiefs aren't done upgrading this roster and will find legit NFL players (glue guys), which is probably why they took serious playmakers in the 2nd which some of the experts called "luxury picks." Also on paper we have fixed our return game.

With Romeo knowing exactly what the **** he's doing, and what guys he needs to do it with, I think this defense will be dramatically better. He's got Javier and Berry as additions along with the RFA's that will make this team and be upgrades over what we had last year. I'd put Henderson down as a Chief. Don't think we didn't address the front seven in the draft without having a plan. Him coming in the tuesday after the draft isn't a coincidence. I think he's a Chief before he leaves town.

On offense we again have a guy running the show that knows exactly what the **** he's doing along with Haley. Todd is smart enough and respects Weis enough to let him do what he does while just being there to over see the whole thing as a head coach should. I think the dynamic of Pioli, Haley, Weis, and Romeo is a kickass combo. All on the same page, working as one, with loads of respect between all and argueably two of the best coordinators in the game. We have a serious play maker now in McCluster (no more Lance Long and Bobby Wade type guys) and have one of the best running back tandems in the League. Cassel is by no means terrible, now has a dedicated coach that he didn't have last year, will be running an offense that he will know front to back instead of one he had to learn two weeks before the season, and had nothing but shit talent around him. Last year he had no running game to work with until the second half of the season and then it became one of the most prolific. Add a 1400 yard back to that to go along with the (more or less) nine game 1100 yard back that can line up anywhere on the field and that is starting to look pretty sexy. Add McCluster to that mix of being able to line up anywhere and having two decent big bodied recievers and we now have weapons. Our line got better as the season went on and with the addition of CW, Lilja, with the guard we drafted that is very highly thought of (name escapes me) and the line is even better and deeper. This is not counting a single RFA that alof of people think will not only make the team, but become serious players. Sometimes these guys are minimized or over looked (though they shouldn't be in KC), but we also have a kickass punter and kicker.

All I'm saying guys is this deal is coming together. Not saying it's all fixed by any means, but it's well on its way. If you can't see it I'm sorry. I've never been accused of this here, but maybe I'm just an overly optomistic moron. Point is I see what they're doing player personnel wise and it aint dumb. Throw in the huge improvement they've made in the coaching staff and we are on our way back to having a team we can be proud of.

I've had a funeral for the shitty Chiefs of the past five years. Those ****ers and the way they did business are dead. I may end up being wrong and I'll admit it, but I think it's ****in Easter out at One Arrowhead Drive.

ChiefaRoo
04-26-2010, 12:27 PM
I still think everyone needs to chill. With no salary cap implications this year teams are going to be blowing quality players out to save money. Pioli isn't a damn dummie. Didn't address the front seven over the weekend. Why...........have anything to do with knowing Henderson was coming in Tuesday? I'm going to say yes. Still alot of offseason yet to go and we brought in several RFA's that people think will make and help this team. I know this goes against the fabric of what Chiefplanet is, but lets just wait and see how the next six weeks unfold. Got a feeling the Chiefs aren't done upgrading this roster and will find legit NFL players (glue guys), which is probably why they took serious playmakers in the 2nd which some of the experts called "luxury picks." Also on paper we have fixed our return game.

With Romeo knowing exactly what the **** he's doing, and what guys he needs to do it with, I think this defense will be dramatically better. He's got Javier and Berry as additions along with the RFA's that will make this team and be upgrades over what we had last year. I'd put Henderson down as a Chief. Don't think we didn't address the front seven in the draft without having a plan. Him coming in the tuesday after the draft isn't a coincidence. I think he's a Chief before he leaves town.

On offense we again have a guy running the show that knows exactly what the **** he's doing along with Haley. Todd is smart enough and respects Weis enough to let him do what he does while just being there to over see the whole thing as a head coach should. I think the dynamic of Pioli, Haley, Weis, and Romeo is a kickass combo. All on the same page, working as one, with loads of respect between all and argueably two of the best coordinators in the game. We have a serious play maker now in McCluster (no more Lance Long and Bobby Wade type guys) and have one of the best running back tandems in the League. Cassel is by no means terrible, now has a dedicated coach that he didn't have last year, will be running an offense that he will know front to back instead of one he had to learn two weeks before the season, and had nothing but shit talent around him. Last year he had no running game to work with until the second half of the season and then it became one of the most prolific. Add a 1400 yard back to that to go along with the (more or less) nine game 1100 yard back that can line up anywhere on the field and that is starting to look pretty sexy. Add McCluster to that mix of being able to line up anywhere and having two decent big bodied recievers and we now have weapons. Our line got better as the season went on and with the addition of CW, Lilja, with the guard we drafted that is very highly thought of (name escapes me) and the line is even better and deeper. This is not counting a single RFA that alof of people think will not only make the team, but become serious players. Sometimes these guys are minimized or over looked (though they shouldn't be in KC), but we also have a kickass punter and kicker.

All I'm saying guys is this deal is coming together. Not saying it's all fixed by any means, but it's well on its way. If you can't see it I'm sorry. I've never been accused of this here, but maybe I'm just an overly optomistic moron. Point is I see what they're doing player personnel wise and it aint dumb. Throw in the huge improvement they've made in the coaching staff and we are on our way back to having a team we can be proud of.

I've had a funeral for the shitty Chiefs of the past five years. Those ****ers and the way they did business are dead. I may end up being wrong and I'll admit it, but I think it's ****in Easter out at One Arrowhead Drive.

Fu*k yeah. Good post.

EyePod
04-26-2010, 12:35 PM
I still think everyone needs to chill. With no salary cap implications this year teams are going to be blowing quality players out to save money. Pioli isn't a damn dummie. Didn't address the front seven over the weekend. Why...........have anything to do with knowing Henderson was coming in Tuesday? I'm going to say yes. Still alot of offseason yet to go and we brought in several RFA's that people think will make and help this team. I know this goes against the fabric of what Chiefplanet is, but lets just wait and see how the next six weeks unfold. Got a feeling the Chiefs aren't done upgrading this roster and will find legit NFL players (glue guys), which is probably why they took serious playmakers in the 2nd which some of the experts called "luxury picks." Also on paper we have fixed our return game.

With Romeo knowing exactly what the **** he's doing, and what guys he needs to do it with, I think this defense will be dramatically better. He's got Javier and Berry as additions along with the RFA's that will make this team and be upgrades over what we had last year. I'd put Henderson down as a Chief. Don't think we didn't address the front seven in the draft without having a plan. Him coming in the tuesday after the draft isn't a coincidence. I think he's a Chief before he leaves town.

On offense we again have a guy running the show that knows exactly what the **** he's doing along with Haley. Todd is smart enough and respects Weis enough to let him do what he does while just being there to over see the whole thing as a head coach should. I think the dynamic of Pioli, Haley, Weis, and Romeo is a kickass combo. All on the same page, working as one, with loads of respect between all and argueably two of the best coordinators in the game. We have a serious play maker now in McCluster (no more Lance Long and Bobby Wade type guys) and have one of the best running back tandems in the League. Cassel is by no means terrible, now has a dedicated coach that he didn't have last year, will be running an offense that he will know front to back instead of one he had to learn two weeks before the season, and had nothing but shit talent around him. Last year he had no running game to work with until the second half of the season and then it became one of the most prolific. Add a 1400 yard back to that to go along with the (more or less) nine game 1100 yard back that can line up anywhere on the field and that is starting to look pretty sexy. Add McCluster to that mix of being able to line up anywhere and having two decent big bodied recievers and we now have weapons. Our line got better as the season went on and with the addition of CW, Lilja, with the guard we drafted that is very highly thought of (name escapes me) and the line is even better and deeper. This is not counting a single RFA that alof of people think will not only make the team, but become serious players. Sometimes these guys are minimized or over looked (though they shouldn't be in KC), but we also have a kickass punter and kicker.

All I'm saying guys is this deal is coming together. Not saying it's all fixed by any means, but it's well on its way. If you can't see it I'm sorry. I've never been accused of this here, but maybe I'm just an overly optomistic moron. Point is I see what they're doing player personnel wise and it aint dumb. Throw in the huge improvement they've made in the coaching staff and we are on our way back to having a team we can be proud of.

I've had a funeral for the shitty Chiefs of the past five years. Those ****ers and the way they did business are dead. I may end up being wrong and I'll admit it, but I think it's ****in Easter out at One Arrowhead Drive.

Great post. Plus you gotta figure that Pioli isn't only thinking about this offseason. My guess is that he's also looking at who's gonna be available next offseason whether it's through FA or through the draft. Any chance that Pioli loved Dan Williams and thought all the other NT's weren't any good?

GoHuge
04-26-2010, 12:58 PM
Great post. Plus you gotta figure that Pioli isn't only thinking about this offseason. My guess is that he's also looking at who's gonna be available next offseason whether it's through FA or through the draft. Any chance that Pioli loved Dan Williams and thought all the other NT's weren't any good?Thanks and I have no idea what Pioli thought about the NT's. Dude is a **** ton smarter than me or anyone else here and looks more and more like dude has a plan for this year and beyond. I just think with Dorsey, Jackson, McGee, Edwards, and probably Henderson they can get a push and take up some blocks. Our secondary is now nasty and Pioli has a history of finding linebackers that can get the job done and Romeo has shown he can coach those very guys. You can't fix it all in one season like we wish they could, but we also have to keep in mind that Berry makes the front seven better and the defense much better against the run. Still going to take some time to get it fixed and no team is ever perfect, but this team was an unmitigated ****ing disaster we these guys showed up and it's getting better.........quickly.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 01:00 PM
Thanks and I have no idea what Pioli thought about the NT's. Dude is a **** ton smarter than me or anyone else here and looks more and more like dude has a plan for this year and beyond. I just think with Dorsey, Jackson, McGee, Edwards, and probably Henderson they can get a push and take up some blocks.

Not trying to pick a fight, just looking for some answers.

What makes you think that the same crew from last year (assuming JH doesn't sign) is going to all of a sudden be able to "get a push and take up some blocks?"

They didn't do it last year.

RustShack
04-26-2010, 01:03 PM
Not trying to pick a fight, just looking for some answers.

What makes you think that the same crew from last year (assuming JH doesn't sign) is going to all of a sudden be able to "get a push and take up some blocks?"

They didn't do it last year.

Because Shaun Smith is a better NT than anything we seen last year. Jackson isn't a rookie anymore. Dorsey has a year of 3-4 under his belt. Krumri isn't our DL coach. And Crennel is a great DL coach and far better than our DC last year. Plus our new DL coach has played under Crennel pretty much everywhere hes been.

RustShack
04-26-2010, 01:03 PM
And I think he was assuming we ARE signing Henderson.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 01:06 PM
Because Shaun Smith is a better NT than anything we seen last year. Jackson isn't a rookie anymore. Dorsey has a year of 3-4 under his belt. Krumri isn't our DL coach. And Crennel is a great DL coach and far better than our DC last year. Plus our new DL coach has played under Crennel pretty much everywhere hes been.

He didn't mention Smith.

So basically, you're hoping that coaching solves all and that Dorsey and Jackson improve.

I don't agree, but thanks for responding.

RustShack
04-26-2010, 01:10 PM
Its not just coaching.. its the fact that it was both our DE's first year in a 3-4 and it usually takes time for them to develop.. Neither were in their third year in the league which is usually the year DL break out..

Hog Farmer
04-26-2010, 01:10 PM
Not trying to pick a fight, just looking for some answers.

What makes you think that the same crew from last year (assuming JH doesn't sign) is going to all of a sudden be able to "get a push and take up some blocks?"

They didn't do it last year.

They're a year older.

philfree
04-26-2010, 01:12 PM
Its not just coaching.. its the fact that it was both our DE's first year in a 3-4 and it usually takes time for them to develop.. Neither were in their third year in the league which is usually the year DL break out..

And with a real NT and improved coaching they should get better. Our d line play should improve.

PhilFree:arrow:

RustShack
04-26-2010, 01:13 PM
I don't think people realize how bad of a coach Krumrie was...

RustShack
04-26-2010, 01:13 PM
and Pendergast for that matter.

TheGuardian
04-26-2010, 01:15 PM
They're a year older.

This is why I have OTWP58 on ignore. He's literally the biggest fukcing moron at this place.

Dorsey was leaps and bounds better in his second year than first (where people like him called Dorsey a bust as a rookie).

Jackson will improve as a second year player as well. Mark it down.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 01:16 PM
This is why I have OTWP58 on ignore. He's literally the biggest fukcing moron at this place.

Dorsey was leaps and bounds better in his second year than first (where people like him called Dorsey a bust as a rookie).

Jackson will improve as a second year player as well. Mark it down.

You have me on ignore, yet you knew I posted.

Smooth, genius.

BigRedChief
04-26-2010, 01:17 PM
I don't think people realize how bad of a coach Krumrie was...but but but he had that really cool hands drill.;)

BigRedChief
04-26-2010, 01:18 PM
You have me on ignore, yet you knew I posted.

Smooth, genius.ROFL

TheGuardian
04-26-2010, 01:19 PM
ROFL


Because when other people quote your dumbass, I can see it.

Now who is the genius? you can't even figure that much out? You really are a fukcing moron.

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2010, 01:20 PM
I hate the Tyson Jackson pick more than any man, women or child currently living on Planet Earth, but even I won't go so far as to say that he won't improve.

He'll just never live up to the #3 overall selection and the talent that could have been taken at that spot.

Bill Lundberg
04-26-2010, 01:20 PM
Because when other people quote your dumbass, I can see it.

Now who is the genius? you can't even figure that much out? You really are a fukcing moron.

Yeahh, I was just going to mention that ignore won't hide your quoted posts.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 01:21 PM
Because when other people quote your dumbass, I can see it.

Now who is the genius? you can't even figure that much out? You really are a fukcing moron.

Then you're too fucking stupid to understand the ignore feature, fuckstick, because it will eliminate all traces of anyone you put on the list.

Hey, everyone. Dorsey and Jackson are a year older, so they'll automatically be better. TheRetardian said so.

Meanwhile, Derrick Johnson sits in the corner wondering why this logic doesn't apply to him.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 01:21 PM
Yeahh, I was just going to mention that ignore won't hide your quoted posts.

Funny, it does for me. I have Sauto on ignore and have to assume he's posting because I'll see gaps in the argument.

BigRedChief
04-26-2010, 01:21 PM
Because when other people quote your dumbass, I can see it.

Now who is the genius? you can't even figure that much out? You really are a fukcing moron.trying to get around the word filter is a bananble offense.:)

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 01:23 PM
trying to get around the word filter is a bananble offense.:)

The steroids and MMA make him dyslexic.

HemiEd
04-26-2010, 01:29 PM
Then you're too ****ing stupid to understand the ignore feature, ****stick, because it will eliminate all traces of anyone you put on the list.



Sorry, you are wrong on this one. The only way I see a few people like Knowmow is when someone quotes them.

RustShack
04-26-2010, 01:31 PM
Then you're too fucking stupid to understand the ignore feature, fuckstick, because it will eliminate all traces of anyone you put on the list.

Hey, everyone. Dorsey and Jackson are a year older, so they'll automatically be better. TheRetardian said so.

Meanwhile, Derrick Johnson sits in the corner wondering why this logic doesn't apply to him.

Usually you know what your talking about.. but your just wrong here. DJ isn't a DL. LB's are usually the best rookies because it doesn't take them a couple years to develop.

Basileus777
04-26-2010, 01:32 PM
Then you're too fucking stupid to understand the ignore feature, fuckstick, because it will eliminate all traces of anyone you put on the list.

No, actually it doesn't. It looks something like this:


<!-- / post 6716168 popup menu --> <!-- / close content container --> <!-- / post #6716168 --><!-- post #6716174 --> <!-- open content container --> <!-- this is not the last post shown on the page --> http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/images/statusicon/post_new.gif Today, 03:32 PM
PosterX
This message is hidden because PosterX is on your ignore list (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).


There is also a convenient "view post" button that lets you see the post without taking someone off your ignore list.

You should trying using it before you make stupid claims.

TheGuardian
04-26-2010, 01:33 PM
Usually you know what your talking about.. but your just wrong here. DJ isn't a DL. LB's are usually the best rookies because it doesn't take them a couple years to develop.

This is true. I mean the part about comparing LB's to Dlinemen. It's like comparing a running back to a WR. One position is mostly based around instinct while the other one requires a lot of learning.

And no, OTWP58 usually does not know what he's talking about. This is just another fine example.

notorious
04-26-2010, 01:35 PM
This is true. I mean the part about comparing LB's to Dlinemen. It's like comparing a running back to a WR. One position is mostly based around instinct while the other one requires a lot of learning.

And no, OTWP58 usually does not know what he's talking about. This is just another fine example.


It's easy to compare RB's and WR's........















.....on Tecmo Superbowl :)

SenselessChiefsFan
04-26-2010, 01:35 PM
Not trying to pick a fight, just looking for some answers.

What makes you think that the same crew from last year (assuming JH doesn't sign) is going to all of a sudden be able to "get a push and take up some blocks?"

They didn't do it last year.


First, Jackson and McGee will both be going into their second year. We should see improvement.

Second, The Chiefs ordered two tons of Weider "Hard Gainer". I think the D-line was trying to play a little too light. Moving Dorsey to NT, let him get up to around 320. At 6-1, that will be stout at the NT position.

If they sign Henderson to play to the right side.... the Chiefs will have a very, very solid D-line.

And, last year, I feel like the biggest issue was ILB, and Vrabel.

I think DJ helps at ILB. Belcher may even be an upgrade over Mays and Studebaker shows a ton of promise taking over for Vrabel.

Pestilence
04-26-2010, 01:35 PM
No, actually it doesn't. It looks something like this:


<!-- / post 6716168 popup menu --> <!-- / close content container --> <!-- / post #6716168 --><!-- post #6716174 --> <!-- open content container --> <!-- this is not the last post shown on the page --> http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/images/statusicon/post_new.gif Today, 03:32 PM
PosterX
This message is hidden because PosterX is on your ignore list (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).


You should trying using it before you make stupid claims.

Or you can use an addon for Firefox and it completely removes everything someone has posted.....even the quoted parts.

The Bad Guy
04-26-2010, 01:40 PM
I'm not expecting the coaching staff to make a huge increase in wins and loses, but the same fucking people crying that Krumrie was a terrible coach of technique and getting players better are the same ones talking about how we won't have any improvements on the line because we didn't add anyone different.

If you believe Romeo is a good DL coach, which I do, then you will see improvement out of players simply from a technique standpoint.

RustShack
04-26-2010, 01:41 PM
I'm not expecting the coaching staff to make a huge increase in wins and loses, but the same fucking people crying that Krumrie was a terrible coach of technique and getting players better are the same ones talking about how we won't have any improvements on the line because we didn't add anyone different.

If you believe Romeo is a good DL coach, which I do, then you will see improvement out of players simply from a technique standpoint.

And technique is really the most important thing in the NFL, because everyone here is talented.

TheGuardian
04-26-2010, 01:55 PM
I'm not expecting the coaching staff to make a huge increase in wins and loses, but the same ****ing people crying that Krumrie was a terrible coach of technique and getting players better are the same ones talking about how we won't have any improvements on the line because we didn't add anyone different.

If you believe Romeo is a good DL coach, which I do, then you will see improvement out of players simply from a technique standpoint.

Yes. Well played sir.

GoHuge
04-26-2010, 02:03 PM
Warpath I am assuming they will sign Henderson. I have no inside info I'm just using some logic and common sense. We don't draft anyone on the D-line, they knew Henderson would be released, and he will be here tomorrow. Just don't think it's pure coincidence.

I honestly believe that McGee will be the most improved D-linemen. He had fuck ups no doubt, but he showed the ability to get up field and get to the QB. Dorsey will be in the best shape he's ever been in because of the hell he went through losing all that weight and having to crawl around during fat camp at the beginning of training camp while his teammates where on the field. I don't care how much money he has peer pressure and embarrasment can be huge motivators. I have no idea what we will see out of Jackson. History tells us that year two is when guys on the d-line start to get it. I think we saw that out of Dorsey and probably would have seen more had he shown up to camp in shape and ready to play.

I say they will be better based on the fact they've got a years worth of experience in the 34 last year and a SERIOUS upgrade in coaching. Like I said our secondary is pure nasty now. We've got Berry, Flowers, Carr, Arenas, McGraw, Washington, Leggett, and Lewis. That should lead to some coverage sacks and maybe provide that extra 1/2 second for the front seven to disrupt a pass play.

You questioned my saying they would be better so are you saying they are going to be worse? I said they will be better because I applied some logic. Not seeing how they couldn't be better. Maybe I'm missing something? If you think they'll be worse at least give me a reason as to why. Just trying to wrap my arms around it and understand your train of thought. There is zero reason they shouldn't be better.

RustShack
04-26-2010, 02:04 PM
You shouldn't have listed McGraw and Leggit, they fucking blow.

BigRedChief
04-26-2010, 02:06 PM
Warpath I am assuming they will sign Henderson. I have no inside info I'm just using some logic and common sense. We don't draft anyone on the D-line, they knew Henderson would be released, and he will be here tomorrow. Just don't think it's pure coincidence. THIS! Thats not a gigantic leap of faith.

wazimo
04-26-2010, 02:30 PM
John Henderson is about to be on 610 with Nick Wright - 4/26 - 15:30 CST

BigChiefFan
04-26-2010, 02:36 PM
http://www.610sports.com/

You can stream it.

The Bad Guy
04-26-2010, 02:40 PM
Can someone update the first couple minutes? I just got on.

Dude sounds like he's 100.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 03:09 PM
Warpath I am assuming they will sign Henderson. I have no inside info I'm just using some logic and common sense. We don't draft anyone on the D-line, they knew Henderson would be released, and he will be here tomorrow. Just don't think it's pure coincidence.

First, thanks for the response.

If Pioli avoided drafting a NT because he thought JH was being released, he's an idiot. Even if he's right, which is this scenario he is, what guarantee is there that he signs with us?

That's an enormous risk. You don't draft for what you think might happen later.

I honestly believe that McGee will be the most improved D-linemen. He had fuck ups no doubt, but he showed the ability to get up field and get to the QB. Dorsey will be in the best shape he's ever been in because of the hell he went through losing all that weight and having to crawl around during fat camp at the beginning of training camp while his teammates where on the field. I don't care how much money he has peer pressure and embarrasment can be huge motivators. I have no idea what we will see out of Jackson. History tells us that year two is when guys on the d-line start to get it. I think we saw that out of Dorsey and probably would have seen more had he shown up to camp in shape and ready to play.

So, in fairness, you really don't have any evidence, you just hope they improve.

I hope they do as well. I agree with your assessment of McGee. Dorsey will be fine, though I think his upside is limited in this scheme.

I say they will be better based on the fact they've got a years worth of experience in the 34 last year and a SERIOUS upgrade in coaching. Like I said our secondary is pure nasty now. We've got Berry, Flowers, Carr, Arenas, McGraw, Washington, Leggett, and Lewis. That should lead to some coverage sacks and maybe provide that extra 1/2 second for the front seven to disrupt a pass play.

I don't agree with this line of thinking, but I respect your opinion. Our secondary wasn't complete garbage, at least at CB, and they took a beating because of the lack of a pass rush. I tend to think that a pass rush helps a secondary much more than a secondary helps a pass rush. Agree to disagree.


You questioned my saying they would be better so are you saying they are going to be worse? I said they will be better because I applied some logic. Not seeing how they couldn't be better. Maybe I'm missing something? If you think they'll be worse at least give me a reason as to why. Just trying to wrap my arms around it and understand your train of thought. There is zero reason they shouldn't be better.

Really, the only reasons you listed is coaching, and the hope that because they are a year older, they MUST improve.

I hope they do. I think they will, but not to the degree people are claiming. Coaching is a small part of the equation - you have to have talent - and just because we have some high draft picks playing there doesn't mean they are extraordinarily talented in this scheme.

Time will tell. Thanks again for the response.

Jawshco
04-26-2010, 03:09 PM
So what did BIG JOHN HENDERSON say? I got to the stream a little too late.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 03:11 PM
All of this talk about coaching is eerily similar to last offseason.

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2010, 03:13 PM
All of this talk about coaching is eerily similar to last offseason.

No, it's not. Not even close.

Last year, people thought the Chiefs would win more games because Herm was a dumbass game day coach and ANYONE would be better.

This year, people are talking about positional coaching along with new offensive and defensive coordinators that are proven successes in the league.

BIG difference.

The Bad Guy
04-26-2010, 03:14 PM
All of this talk about coaching is eerily similar to last offseason.

Bull fucking shit.

You were beating the Krumrie sucks drum for a long time. So you mean to tell me you don't think players technique will get better because of having an upgrade in coaching?

You know why you can't grasp the concept? Because it doesn't fit your agenda.

Fish
04-26-2010, 03:14 PM
All of this talk about coaching is eerily similar to last offseason.

No shit. I hope there's an ounce of validity in this dump truck full of bullshit. But everyone thought so last year too.

Pestilence
04-26-2010, 03:16 PM
Jesus.....Pioli has officially split the fanbase in new ways.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 03:16 PM
Krumrie does suck but you know it does require talent to get things done, we have the worst LB's in the league.

I'm sure that's part of my agenda too, that we lack front 7 talent.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 03:17 PM
Jesus.....Pioli has officially split the fanbase in new ways.

No biggie, it was the same after last years draft.

The Bad Guy
04-26-2010, 03:21 PM
Krumrie does suck but you know it does require talent to get things done, we have the worst LB's in the league.

I'm sure that's part of my agenda too, that we lack front 7 talent.

So what you're telling me is that Glenn Dorsey or Tyson Jackson don't have the potential to be talented players?

No, your agenda is to play the sky is falling card every chance you get. I thought when the Chiefs drafted Eric Berry you'd sing a slightly different tune, but nope.

The Bad Guy
04-26-2010, 03:22 PM
No biggie, it was the same after last years draft.

Yes, last year's draft and this year's are very comparable.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 03:23 PM
No, it's not. Not even close.

Last year, people thought the Chiefs would win more games because Herm was a dumbass game day coach and ANYONE would be better.

This year, people are talking about positional coaching along with new offensive and defensive coordinators that are proven successes in the league.

BIG difference.

I'll respond to you and let Frank and Mecca continue their pissing match.

There's a saying in baseball: Good pitching beats good hitting.

You can apply those same principles to football. I think they would go like this:

Elite talent can overcome poor coaching.

Elite coaching cannot overcome poor talent.

Talent is the trump card, and I'm not sure we have any elite talent on the DL at the moment, even though we have two top 5 picks residing there.

Dorsey is the only guy even resembling elite at this stage, and I think that's being generous. I think we'd all agree that his upside is limited in this scheme compared to a 43.

|Zach|
04-26-2010, 03:23 PM
Jesus.....Pioli has officially split the fanbase in new ways.

What Pioli does or doesn't do doesn't matter in this regard.

JASONSAUTO
04-26-2010, 03:26 PM
Yes, last year's draft and this year's are very comparable.

if you were stuck in a chiefs planet vacuum you would think it was just as bad or worse. but to listen to the experts everywhere else......A-A+

Fish
04-26-2010, 03:26 PM
No, it's not. Not even close.

Last year, people thought the Chiefs would win more games because Herm was a dumbass game day coach and ANYONE would be better.

This year, people are talking about positional coaching along with new offensive and defensive coordinators that are proven successes in the league.

BIG difference.

It was a helluva lot more than "Herm = bad, anyone else = good" for the majority around here.

And despite the fact that I do think our coordinators will be better, they both were fired from their last job because they couldn't get it done. In fact the only time they really had consistent success was when they both were with Belichick.

The Bad Guy
04-26-2010, 03:29 PM
I'll respond to you and let Frank and Mecca continue their pissing match.

There's a saying in baseball: Good pitching beats good hitting.

You can apply those same principles to football. I think they would go like this:

Elite talent can overcome poor coaching.

Elite coaching cannot overcome poor talent.

Talent is the trump card, and I'm not sure we have any elite talent on the DL at the moment, even though we have two top 5 picks residing there.

Dorsey is the only guy even resembling elite at this stage, and I think that's being generous. I think we'd all agree that his upside is limited in this scheme compared to a 43.

Gregg Williams came in and completely changed the culture for the Saints defense. I don't think they have elite talent. I think Sharper made a big difference at safety, but besides Vilma, I don't think they have any real elite pieces either.

I think the coaching in that regard made a huge, huge difference.

Mojo Jojo
04-26-2010, 03:34 PM
I'll respond to you and let Frank and Mecca continue their pissing match.

There's a saying in baseball: Good pitching beats good hitting.

You can apply those same principles to football. I think they would go like this:

Elite talent can overcome poor coaching.

Elite coaching cannot overcome poor talent.

Talent is the trump card, and I'm not sure we have any elite talent on the DL at the moment, even though we have two top 5 picks residing there.

Dorsey is the only guy even resembling elite at this stage, and I think that's being generous. I think we'd all agree that his upside is limited in this scheme compared to a 43.

Bad logic. How many times do we see teams with lesser talent win? I'll give you a few '69 Chiefs, '85 Royals, '88 Jayhawks. On the other hand the Yankees had the best talent in MLB for years and just won their first championship in 9 years.

Talent is needed, but coaching puts it over the top...just ask Marty S.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 03:37 PM
Gregg Williams came in and completely changed the culture for the Saints defense. I don't think they have elite talent. I think Sharper made a big difference at safety, but besides Vilma, I don't think they have any real elite pieces either.

I think the coaching in that regard made a huge, huge difference.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on that.

Maybe not elite, but they had some damn talented players.

Sharper, Vilma, Porter, Smith, Grant, Ellis, Jenkins.

They acquired most of that talent in the last two years via the draft and FA.

While I agree GW did a good job, you seem to be acting like he turned chicken shit into chicken salad, which is what RAC is going to be asked to do.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 03:38 PM
Bad logic. How many times do we see teams with lesser talent win? I'll give you a few '69 Chiefs, '85 Royals, '88 Jayhawks. On the other hand the Yankees had the best talent in MLB for years and just won their first championship in 9 years.

Talent is needed, but coaching puts it over the top...just ask Marty S.

You didn't read what I said.

You just admitted that talent is needed.

We don't have talent.

Basileus777
04-26-2010, 03:40 PM
Sharper, Vilma, Porter, Smith, Grant, Ellis, Jenkins.

That's not really an impressive collection of talent, but your claim is still solid because the Saints defense wasn't that good even under Greg Williams. The defense wasn't good in the regular season and played poorly against the Vikings and Colts.

Dave Lane
04-26-2010, 03:41 PM
Elite talent can overcome poor coaching.

Elite coaching cannot overcome poor talent.


This is where I think you are wrong. Not dramatically or anything but wrong none the less. Its the way you see teams that are crap and bottom feeders suddenly fire the Head Coach and the next season they are a playoff contender. A head coach can turn chicken into chicken shit and a good coach can maximize what is on the team.

The reason for the leap in standings is not that the talent changed that much its the way the talent was utilized and motivated. Coaching is huge to success.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 03:44 PM
This is where I think you are wrong. Not dramatically or anything but wrong none the less. Its the way you see teams that are crap and bottom feeders suddenly fire the Head Coach and the next season they are a playoff contender. A head coach can turn chicken into chicken shit and a good coach can maximize what is on the team.

The reason for the leap in standings is not that the talent changed that much its the way the talent was utilized and motivated. Coaching is huge to success.

Show me one instance of a team going from garbage to great in one year, with the only change being to the coaching staff.

Fish
04-26-2010, 03:48 PM
This is where I think you are wrong. Not dramatically or anything but wrong none the less. Its the way you see teams that are crap and bottom feeders suddenly fire the Head Coach and the next season they are a playoff contender. A head coach can turn chicken into chicken shit and a good coach can maximize what is on the team.

The reason for the leap in standings is not that the talent changed that much its the way the talent was utilized and motivated. Coaching is huge to success.

This was the exact reasoning most people gave last year when they predicted the Chiefs to win ~8 games.

The Bad Guy
04-26-2010, 04:21 PM
We're going to have to agree to disagree on that.

Maybe not elite, but they had some damn talented players.

Sharper, Vilma, Porter, Smith, Grant, Ellis, Jenkins.

They acquired most of that talent in the last two years via the draft and FA.

While I agree GW did a good job, you seem to be acting like he turned chicken shit into chicken salad, which is what RAC is going to be asked to do.

We can agree to disagree then. Vilma, Sharper and Sed Ellis are about the only pieces that are better than what the Chiefs have.

patteeu
04-26-2010, 04:30 PM
I'll respond to you and let Frank and Mecca continue their pissing match.

There's a saying in baseball: Good pitching beats good hitting.

You can apply those same principles to football. I think they would go like this:

Elite talent can overcome poor coaching.

Elite coaching cannot overcome poor talent.

Talent is the trump card, and I'm not sure we have any elite talent on the DL at the moment, even though we have two top 5 picks residing there.

Dorsey is the only guy even resembling elite at this stage, and I think that's being generous. I think we'd all agree that his upside is limited in this scheme compared to a 43.

Come on. Tyson Jackson was a surprise at #3 overall last year, but he was a concensus first round pick. You don't have to have top 5 overall elite talent along your D-line to be successful. Tyson Jackson has talent. Even if it doesn't end up measuring up to the expectations of the pre-draft NFL consensus from last year he can still be a part of the solution. It's way too early to consider him a complete bust. It's foolish to get caught on the "good coaching won't help TJax" side of this argument.

patteeu
04-26-2010, 04:38 PM
I'll respond to you and let Frank and Mecca continue their pissing match.

There's a saying in baseball: Good pitching beats good hitting.

You can apply those same principles to football. I think they would go like this:

Elite talent can overcome poor coaching.

Elite coaching cannot overcome poor talent.

Talent is the trump card, and I'm not sure we have any elite talent on the DL at the moment, even though we have two top 5 picks residing there.

Dorsey is the only guy even resembling elite at this stage, and I think that's being generous. I think we'd all agree that his upside is limited in this scheme compared to a 43.

Come on. Tyson Jackson was a surprise at #3 overall last year, but he was a concensus first round pick. You don't have to have top 5 overall elite talent along your D-line to be successful. Tyson Jackson has talent. Even if it doesn't end up measuring up to the expectations of the pre-draft NFL consensus from last year he can still be a part of the solution. It's way too early to consider him a complete bust. It's foolish to get caught on the "good coaching won't help TJax" side of this argument.

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-26-2010, 05:04 PM
If the team CAN'T develop guys like Jackson and Dorsey we might as well give up now, because there is no way this team is turning things around without developing the players they do have. They need them to continue to get better and get guys like Studebaker and Morgan to contribute as well.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 05:06 PM
I've always liked Clint Ingram...