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Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 03:57 PM
I said this during last year...and was always hit by a Hamas stat about how bad our rush defense was...

I always thought our biggest problem was our pass defense and our inability to get off the field on 3rd and long. I always cheered for the opposition to waste a 2nd down on a run play...because we were better in 3rd and 3 than we were in 3rd and 10 defensively...

Teams knew this too...our rush defense got a bad wrap because we were consistently losing by 2+ scores in the 4th quarter and teams like the Giants...who gashed us with the pass all game long...used their final possessions to bad their rushing stats...and the Ravens...and even the Cowboys game 1/4th of their rushing yards came on one long run (kind of like the Skins game when we shut down Portis minus one long run as well)...

The formula for beating us last year? A good passing game...and we made even marginal passing games look AMAZING. Just check this out:

Flacco 300+ yards (96 rating)

Oakland beat us averaging 2.7 YPC in week 2

Kolb 300 + yards (120 rating)

E. Manning 292 yards (104 rating)

Romo 350 yards (113 rating)

Rivers 270 yards (123 rating)

Garrard 270 yards (111 rating)

Rivers 300+ yards (136 rating)

Orton 180 yards (92 rating) 245 rush yards allowed

Edwards (66 rating) 200 rush yards allowed

Quinn (28 rating) 350 rush yards allowed

Palmer (92 rating) Benson 4.6 YPC

...

Anyone see the trend here? It's nice that guys like OTWP like to conveniently ignore what we were REALLY bad at last year.

DJ's left nut
04-26-2010, 04:02 PM
I said this during last year...and was always hit by a Hamas stat about how bad our rush defense was...

I always thought our biggest problem was our pass defense and our inability to get off the field on 3rd and long. I always cheered for the opposition to waste a 2nd down on a run play...because we were better in 3rd and 3 than we were in 3rd and 10 defensively...

Teams knew this too...our rush defense got a bad wrap because we were consistently losing by 2+ scores in the 4th quarter and teams like the Giants...who gashed us with the pass all game long...used their final possessions to bad their rushing stats...and the Ravens...and even the Cowboys game 1/4th of their rushing yards came on one long run (kind of like the Skins game when we shut down Portis minus one long run as well)...

The formula for beating us last year? A good passing game...and we made even marginal passing games look AMAZING. Just check this out:

Flacco 300+ yards (96 rating)

Oakland beat us averaging 2.7 YPC in week 2

Kolb 300 + yards (120 rating)

E. Manning 292 yards (104 rating)

Romo 350 yards (113 rating)

Rivers 270 yards (123 rating)

Garrard 270 yards (111 rating)

Rivers 300+ yards (136 rating)

Orton 180 yards (92 rating) 245 rush yards allowed

Edwards (66 rating) 200 rush yards allowed

Quinn (28 rating) 350 rush yards allowed

Palmer (92 rating) Benson 4.6 YPC

...

Anyone see the trend here? It's nice that guys like OTWP like to conveniently ignore what we were REALLY bad at last year.

You know that we were REALLY bad at pretty much every single facet of playing defense last year, right?

Pass defense, rush defense, putting our cleats on the right foot. Mostly, our defense couldn't do a single thing well.

And we used the 36th overall on a scat-back and the 50th on a kick returner/corner blitzer.

We still have no LBs. We still have no SS. We still have a garbage set of down-linemen.

We will continue to suck at stopping the pass because we can't get any heat on the QB and even when we do, our LBs are all so slow and so awful that the middle of the field will be open to anyone that wants it. We will also continue to suck at stopping the run because of aforementioned old/slow/weak LBs and garbage down-linemen.

No, nobody's overlooking what we "really struggled" at. We "really struggled" at damn near everything. So we went out and put shiny new rims and a chrome rearview mirror on our '76 Fiat.

Fucking. Awesome.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 04:03 PM
You know that we were REALLY bad at pretty much every single facet of playing defense last year, right?

Pass defense, rush defense, putting our cleats on the right foot. Mostly, our defense couldn't do a single thing well.

And we used the 36th overall on a scat-back and the 50th on a kick returner/corner blitzer.

We still have no LBs. We still have no SS. We still have a garbage set of down-linemen.

We will continue to suck at stopping the pass because we can't get any heat on the QB and even when we do, our LBs are all so slow and so awful that the middle of the field will be open to anyone that wants it. We will also continue to suck at stopping the run because of aforementioned old/slow/weak LBs and garbage down-linemen.

No, nobody's overlooking what we "really struggled" at. We "really struggled" at damn near everything. So we went out and put shiny new rims and a chrome rearview mirror on our '76 Fiat.

Fucking. Awesome.

/thread.

That was quick.

jspchief
04-26-2010, 04:05 PM
And a front 7 doesn't affect the passing game?

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 04:05 PM
our run defense wasn't our true weakness last year...

it was our pass defense and yes, our ability to get to the QB...

Berry and Arenas are going to be difference makers from day 1...

If our offense can sustain some drives and give us some leads late in games...we'll see that rush defense improve...just because of our offense alone.

But people like OTWP want to hide behind stats because they don't like to rely on what they see with their own two eyes.

jspchief
04-26-2010, 04:06 PM
Inability to collapse the pocket has been a weakness for years. It makes our pass rushers have to be that much better to do their job.

orange
04-26-2010, 04:07 PM
Pass defense, rush defense, putting our cleats on the right foot. Mostly, our defense couldn't do a single thing well.


You almost tripled your number of sacks from 2008. That's something.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 04:08 PM
I think it's funny you idiots were SO CONCERNED about teams running for 400 yards against us every game...but you fail to see that our defense has not taken any sort of a step backwards this offseason...that didn't happen last year...and even when we had NO IDENTITY and a shit ass DC...teams still elected to beat us through the air...not on the ground.

DO YOU NOT GET THAT?

OTHER THAN JEMARCUS RUSSELL, BRADY QUINN AND TRENT EDWARDS...TEAMS WITH REAL QB'S OFFENSIVE GAME PLAN WAS TO BEAT US WITH THE PASS RELENTLESSLY...UNTIL WE WERE DONE...AND THEN JUST PILE ON WITH SOME RUSHING ATTEMPTS.

That was the game plan.

As evidenced by every single QB ass raping our defense for our first 9 losses.

DJ's left nut
04-26-2010, 04:09 PM
our run defense wasn't our true weakness last year...

it was our pass defense and yes, our ability to get to the QB...

Berry and Arenas are going to be difference makers from day 1...

If our offense can sustain some drives and give us some leads late in games...we'll see that rush defense improve...just because of our offense alone.

But people like OTWP want to hide behind stats because they don't like to rely on what they see with their own two eyes.

I saw a bunch of old linebackers a step behind every intermediate route that the opposition ran. I saw several QBs with interminable amounts of time in the pocket because the down-lineman couldn't generate even the beginnings of a push in the pocket.

I saw a defense that sucked at stopping the pass for the same reasons it sucked at stopping the run. It's old, it's slow, it's overmatched physically.

Guess what? -- The front 7 will remain old and/or slow and/or overmatched.

And I'll see all of this with my own two eyes.

petegz28
04-26-2010, 04:14 PM
Hey, we addressed one of the key sore spots last year by signing Weigman. At least he can snap the ball to the QB in the shotgun!

Hog Farmer
04-26-2010, 04:16 PM
If Arenas can run just 50 % of the Kick offs back for TD's we will have a chance.

Detoxing
04-26-2010, 04:17 PM
/thread.

That was quick.

.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 04:17 PM
17/25 139 5.6 2 1 (Palmer)
10/17 66 3.9 0 2 (Quinn)
12/20 86 4.3 1 1 (Fitzpatrick)
15/25 180 7.2 2 1 (Orton)
21/28 317 11.3 2 0 (Rivers)
18/27 264 9.8 1 0 (Garrard)
18/30 268 8.9 3 0 (Rivers)
20/34 351 10.3 2 0 (Romo)
20/34 292 8.6 3 1 (E. Manning)
24/34 327 9.6 2 0 (Kolb)
7/24 109 4.5 0 0 (J. Russell)
26/43 307 7.1 3 1 (Flacco)

the Talking Can
04-26-2010, 04:24 PM
teams passed on us because our front 7 sucked ass

our dl put no pressure on the qb

and even worse, our lbs can't cover anyone in space....teams murdered us in the middle of the field where our slow and or clueless lbs lost their man or just couldn't maintain coverage...

and of course our backfield had to cover all day while opposing qbs made sandwhiches in the pocket before throwing the ball...

if our front seven, which remains basically unchanged - please sign henderson! - doesn't improve dramatically we'll see the exact same thing Berry or no (though i would expect him to not whiff on breakout runs the way Brown routinely did)...

pretending that our bad d and our bad pass d are somehow not connected...is um wierd...it's all on the front 7...in a 3-4 it is especially on the LBs...and our LBs, with the exception of Hali, suck ass...I mean they are some of if not the very worst in the league

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 04:26 PM
who was good in our secondary?

Flowers?

I know no one else was...I am skeptical about how good Flowers really was last year in all honesty.

Rigodan
04-26-2010, 04:27 PM
We allowed 4.7 YPC rushing, good for 31st in the league.

hmmm......

HemiEd
04-26-2010, 04:28 PM
who was good in our secondary?

Flowers?

I know no one else was...I am skeptical about how good Flowers really was last year in all honesty.

I have no doubts about Flowers, but I do have doubts about Carr.

Brianfo
04-26-2010, 04:28 PM
I said this during last year...and was always hit by a Hamas stat about how bad our rush defense was...

I always thought our biggest problem was our pass defense and our inability to get off the field on 3rd and long. I always cheered for the opposition to waste a 2nd down on a run play...because we were better in 3rd and 3 than we were in 3rd and 10 defensively...

Teams knew this too...our rush defense got a bad wrap because we were consistently losing by 2+ scores in the 4th quarter and teams like the Giants...who gashed us with the pass all game long...used their final possessions to bad their rushing stats...and the Ravens...and even the Cowboys game 1/4th of their rushing yards came on one long run (kind of like the Skins game when we shut down Portis minus one long run as well)...

The formula for beating us last year? A good passing game...and we made even marginal passing games look AMAZING. Just check this out:

Flacco 300+ yards (96 rating)

Oakland beat us averaging 2.7 YPC in week 2

Kolb 300 + yards (120 rating)

E. Manning 292 yards (104 rating)

Romo 350 yards (113 rating)

Rivers 270 yards (123 rating)

Garrard 270 yards (111 rating)

Rivers 300+ yards (136 rating)

Orton 180 yards (92 rating) 245 rush yards allowed

Edwards (66 rating) 200 rush yards allowed

Quinn (28 rating) 350 rush yards allowed

Palmer (92 rating) Benson 4.6 YPC

...

Anyone see the trend here? It's nice that guys like OTWP like to conveniently ignore what we were REALLY bad at last year.


Stop it. Your post actually makes sense. That is not allowed on CP.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 04:29 PM
I have no doubts about Flowers, but I do have doubts about Carr.

I don't either...I think Flowers is going to be really good...just didn't necessarily see anything special last year.

the Talking Can
04-26-2010, 04:29 PM
who was good in our secondary?

Flowers?

I know no one else was...I am skeptical about how good Flowers really was last year in all honesty.

because you're dumb

Ralphy Boy
04-26-2010, 04:29 PM
And a front 7 doesn't affect the passing game?

This.

our run defense wasn't our true weakness last year...

it was our pass defense and yes, our ability to get to the QB...

Berry and Arenas are going to be difference makers from day 1...

If our offense can sustain some drives and give us some leads late in games...we'll see that rush defense improve...just because of our offense alone.

But people like OTWP want to hide behind stats because they don't like to rely on what they see with their own two eyes.

Look man you need to chill out with constantly going after certain posters on here. The QB ratings you posted wouldn't be as high if we had a pass rush.

The guy I thought would improve our team more than anyone was Brandon Graham because he can get to the QB very well and play the run. He was, IMO, the best all around OLB prospect in the draft. I'm not saying he was worth the #5 pick, but I said quite some time ago that as long as our run defense was horrible, adding Berry wouldn't provide as big an impact to improving the team.

If a runner is getting into your secondary over and over again, then your front 7 suck. THAT is the bottom line.

They basically chose to ignore the front seven and THAT is the problem most of us have with this draft.

KCrockaholic
04-26-2010, 04:30 PM
who was good in our secondary?

Flowers?

I know no one else was...I am skeptical about how good Flowers really was last year in all honesty.

:facepalm: :shake:

the Talking Can
04-26-2010, 04:31 PM
Flowers would be in a probowl if we ever had a good front 7

DJ's left nut
04-26-2010, 04:31 PM
who was good in our secondary?

Flowers?

I know no one else was...I am skeptical about how good Flowers really was last year in all honesty.

Okay, and nobody's complaining about the Berry pick to add some talent to the secondary.

You think Javier Arenas is the cure to what ails our pass coverage?

This argument you're making....uh...it really sucks badly.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2010, 04:32 PM
When the quarterback has 3 minutes to find a receiver, someone is bound to get open.

the Talking Can
04-26-2010, 04:32 PM
trying to run a 3-4 with our LBs is basically insane...that's how bad they are

Claynus
04-26-2010, 04:33 PM
Thread over.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09Tbbjc6FY6on/439x.jpg

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2010, 04:33 PM
Flowers would be in a probowl if we ever had a good front 7

No way. EVERYONE knows that 2nd round picks don't make pro-bowls. They're drafted strictly to be role players.

the Talking Can
04-26-2010, 04:35 PM
No way. EVERYONE knows that 2nd round picks don't make pro-bowls. They're drafted strictly to be role players.

i know, i remember before the draft when everyone was saying that smart teams use 2nd round picks on kick returners...

Mecca
04-26-2010, 04:37 PM
Football 101, front to back, front 7, namely your pass rush will mask your secondary. If you have no pass rush you can have Deion Sanders and Rod Woodson back there, you're gonna get passed on.

Brianfo
04-26-2010, 04:37 PM
No way. EVERYONE knows that 2nd round picks don't make pro-bowls. They're drafted strictly to be role players.

Hilarious. That or for drafting a certain no-talent QB that 32 teams have already passed on once.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2010, 04:38 PM
i know, i remember before the draft when everyone was saying that smart teams use 2nd round picks on kick returners...

Here's how to build a winner. When you're in the beginning of your rebuild, draft the toys first.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 04:38 PM
So Hootie claims that the bad run defense numbers are a product of us getting passed on in the first half, and the opposition "padding" their run totals in the 2nd half of games.

I have another set of stats he'll ignore.

I've only done the first 9 games, I'll try to get to the rest later.

In the first 9 games, we gave up 1269 rushing yards.

668 of which, or 52% came in the first half of games.

And the Giants, which he claims "gashed us with the pass all game long...used their final possessions to pad their rushing stats" happened to rack up 108 of their 156 rushing yards in the first half of the game.

The list of excuses should be exceptionally comical this time around folks.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2010, 04:39 PM
Hilarious. That or for drafting a certain no-talent QB that 32 teams have already passed on once.

Keep hanging onto it Brian. It's quite obviously all you've got. I've already conceded Clausen. Now what? Let me guess;


CLAUSEN CLAUSEN CLAUSEN CLAUSEN CLAUSEN CLAUSEN

Great argument red rider.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2010, 04:41 PM
So Hootie claims that the bad run defense numbers are a product of us getting passed on in the first half, and the opposition "padding" their run totals in the 2nd half of games.

I have another set of stats he'll ignore.

I've only done the first 9 games, I'll try to get to the rest later.

In the first 9 games, we gave up 1269 rushing yards.

668 of which, or 52% came in the first half of games.

And the Giants, which he claims "gashed us with the pass all game long...used their final possessions to pad their rushing stats" happened to rack up 108 of their 156 rushing yards in the first half of the game.

The list of excuses should be exceptionally comical this time around folks.

http://archive.student.bmj.com/back_issues/1098/graphics/boxing.gif

DJ's left nut
04-26-2010, 04:42 PM
So Hootie claims that the bad run defense numbers are a product of us getting passed on in the first half, and the opposition "padding" their run totals in the 2nd half of games.

I have another set of stats he'll ignore.

I've only done the first 9 games, I'll try to get to the rest later.

In the first 9 games, we gave up 1269 rushing yards.

668 of which, or 52% came in the first half of games.

And the Giants, which he claims "gashed us with the pass all game long...used their final possessions to pad their rushing stats" happened to rack up 108 of their 156 rushing yards in the first half of the game.

The list of excuses should be exceptionally comical this time around folks.

And that's after putting Mike Brown up in the box, thus creating some of these problems in the passing game.

Wait, that's not right -- only the corners have anything to do with pass defense. There's no spillover from an awful front 7 into the secondary.

What was I thinking?

This entire 'point' of his may be the worst thought out and worst presented thesis I have ever seen presented on CP.

Fellas, that's a high MFing hurdle.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2010, 04:43 PM
Fellas, that's a high MFing hurdle.

And Hootie is the Edwin Moses of dumbassery.

Brianfo
04-26-2010, 04:44 PM
Keep hanging onto it Brian. It's quite obviously all you've got. I've already conceded Clausen. Now what? Let me guess;


CLAUSEN CLAUSEN CLAUSEN CLAUSEN CLAUSEN CLAUSEN

Great argument red rider.

This crap is all pointless until 3 years down the road. That's all I have said all along. However, you can not in any way say that this team is not better on paper than when Pioli took over. I like the idea of drafting playmakers. Put pressure on the other teams defense.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 04:45 PM
This crap is all pointless until 3 years down the road. That's all I have said all along. However, you can not in any way say that this team is not better on paper than when Pioli took over. I like the idea of drafting playmakers. Put pressure on the other teams defense.

You sure about that?

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2010, 04:45 PM
This crap is all pointless until 3 years down the road. That's all I have said all along. However, you can not in any way say that this team is not better on paper than when Pioli took over. I like the idea of drafting playmakers. Put pressure on the other teams defense.

I've never said that. I don't hate any of the players picked. We just could've done better IMO. And it's just my opinion dude. I don't know anyone to help get me into NFL personnel.

dirk digler
04-26-2010, 04:46 PM
Hootie has a legit point. Mitch Holthus was talking about how bad the play in the middle of the field was for us last year which is why they drafted Berry to stop alot of that. In case you guys need to be reminded every single one of you in this thread constantly bitched about how Brown sucked and was a huge reason why the D sucked. He endlessly got blamed for alot of shit rightfully so.

That is not to say that we don't need 3 new LB 's and a NT but teams threw alot on us.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 04:47 PM
And Hootie is the Edwin Moses of dumbassery.

do I really have to post your track record for the 50TH time in the last 3 days?

BWillie
04-26-2010, 04:47 PM
I miss Jarred Allen.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2010, 04:48 PM
Hootie has a legit point. Mitch Holthus was talking about how bad the play in the middle of the field was for us last year which is why they drafted Berry to stop alot of that. In case you guys need to be reminded every single one of you in this thread constantly bitched about how Brown sucked and was a huge reason why the D sucked. He endlessly got blamed for alot of shit rightfully so.

That is not to say that we don't need 3 new LB 's and a NT but teams threw alot on us.

I don't know ANYONE who has a problem with Eric Berry being picked at 5.

Brianfo
04-26-2010, 04:48 PM
I've never said that. I don't hate any of the players picked. We just could've done better IMO. And it's just my opinion dude. I don't know anyone to help get me into NFL personnel.

People have opinions and that is what makes this place great. I am not going to quit my day job any time soon either!

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 04:48 PM
hey OTWP...

how many rushing TD's did we give up in the first 9 games...and how many passing TD's did we give up?

the Talking Can
04-26-2010, 04:49 PM
Hootie has a legit point. Mitch Holthus was talking about how bad the play in the middle of the field was for us last year which is why they drafted Berry to stop alot of that. In case you guys need to be reminded every single one of you in this thread constantly bitched about how Brown sucked and was a huge reason why the D sucked. He endlessly got blamed for alot of shit rightfully so.

our problems in the middle of the field were largely on our lbs


and hooties point - which is the point we're all responding too - is based on a) factual inaccuracies and b) a pretty complete lack of understanding of basic defense....our pass problems and run problems stem from the same source: shitty play from our front 7

Berry will help clean up some of the mistakes...but he can't magically make our front 7 do their jobs....

dirk digler
04-26-2010, 04:50 PM
I don't know ANYONE who has a problem with Eric Berry being picked at 5.

I was listening to Petro today and he said he would have taken OL but he was happy with Berry LMAO

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2010, 04:50 PM
do I really have to post your track record for the 50TH time in the last 3 days?

Every time I post my draft record, you run away. It's not my fault you don't know who solid young players like Goff, Branch, Knighton, and Decoud, among others, are.

That's what happens when your knowledge of a sport is encompassed by FFL.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 04:50 PM
hey OTWP...

how many passing yards went against us in the 1st half as opposed to the 2nd half for the first 9 games?

I bet the reason why teams had more rushing yards in the 1st half against us then the 2nd half is because they had more passing yards, too...more yards in general...more opportunity...less dead possessions at the end of games.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 04:50 PM
I was listening to Petro today and he said he would have taken OL but he was happy with Berry LMAO

Considering he said 500 times you don't use first round picks on safeties he kinda has to save his argument.

Demonpenz
04-26-2010, 04:51 PM
our D sucked and we needed playmakers all over the field. So we got Romeo and we drafted playmakers

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2010, 04:51 PM
hey OTWP...

how many rushing TD's did we give up in the first 9 games...and how many passing TD's did we give up?

The last 8 games are way more important to me than the first 8 when you're a young, non playoff team rebuilding. JMO.

I don't have the answer you're looking for.

Iowanian
04-26-2010, 04:51 PM
Hootie,

As much as I wish you had better ground to stand on, it turns out your trampoline is a muskeg bog and you've broken through the surface.

Yes, the run defense and the front 7 struggled, and their lack of regular pressure on the qb exposed the secondary. Even great corners and safeties can only cover for so long before the wrs are going to get open.

Improving speed at the safety position and at the nickle will definitely help, but the front 7 is going to have to put alot more pressure on the qb to improve the pass D.

the Talking Can
04-26-2010, 04:51 PM
I don't know ANYONE who has a problem with Eric Berry being picked at 5.

this board exploded in joy when we picked Berry


it's my favorite draft pick since i don't when

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2010, 04:51 PM
our D sucked and we needed playmakers all over the field. So we got Romeo and we drafted playmakers

We could totally line McCluster up at CB.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 04:52 PM
Every time I post my draft record, you run away. It's not my fault you don't know who solid young players like Goff, Branch, Knighton, and Decoud, among others, are.

That's what happens when your knowledge of a sport is encompassed by FFL.

I responded to it yesterday...I never ran away in the first place...

if that was the draft for any NFL team they'd be like...this dude is an idiot...

If they took Gholston #1 overall instead of Jake Long...I can only imagine what the talk around Miami would be right now...

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2010, 04:53 PM
this board exploded in joy when we picked Berry


it's my favorite draft pick since i don't when

I came over DJ. Looks like I was wrong there. I came over Dorsey. I don't think I was wrong there, but I don't know if anyone will ever truly know. Berry made me just as happy. Maybe more. He's a dynamic play maker. You know, in an area that we desperately needed one.

dirk digler
04-26-2010, 04:53 PM
our problems in the middle of the field were largely on our lbs


and hooties point - which is the point we're all responding too - is based on a) factual inaccuracies and b) a pretty complete lack of understanding of basic defense....our pass problems and run problems stem from the same source: shitty play from our front 7

Berry will help clean up some of the mistakes...but he can't magically make our front 7 do their jobs....

I would add that our safety play also contributed alot to that as well but I don't disagree at all that we need to generate some kind of pass rush. Though I would like to see the stat on Hali on QB hurries because it seemed like he was getting close alot of times but that could be my memory failing me.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 04:54 PM
Hootie,

As much as I wish you had better ground to stand on, it turns out your trampoline is a muskeg bog and you've broken through the surface.

Yes, the run defense and the front 7 struggled, and their lack of regular pressure on the qb exposed the secondary. Even great corners and safeties can only cover for so long before the wrs are going to get open.

Improving speed at the safety position and at the nickle will definitely help, but the front 7 is going to have to put alot more pressure on the qb to improve the pass D.

Dude I agree that our front 7 sucked...

But we have talent there...Dorsey/Jackson/Hali...we have more talent on our DL than we did in our secondary...it's a process...upgrading with Berry and Arenas is every bit as good as upgrading with Cody and Kindle...probably better in all honesty...since Cody's are dime a dozen players and Kindle is a huge ???

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 04:54 PM
Hey, we got better over the last 7 games.

Enough to drop us from 52% of rushing yardage coming in the first half over the first 9 games - to 51% in the first half for the entire season.

ROFL

the Talking Can
04-26-2010, 04:55 PM
I came over DJ. Looks like I was wrong there. I came over Dorsey. I don't think I was wrong there, but I don't know if anyone will ever truly know. Berry made me just as happy. Maybe more. He's a dynamic play maker. You know, in an area that we desperately needed one.

but dj and dorsey were accidents...they fell to us, it felt good but lucky


i wanted Berry leading in to the draft...so it felt like getting what i wanted for the first time ever....and i'm convinced he'll live up to the hype...

Brianfo
04-26-2010, 04:55 PM
I came over DJ. Looks like I was wrong there. I came over Dorsey. I don't think I was wrong there, but I don't know if anyone will ever truly know. Berry made me just as happy. Maybe more. He's a dynamic play maker. You know, in an area that we desperately needed one.

Dorsey is ready to break out. I can feel it. DJ just needs to be able to play in space and he will be fine. MLB is a serious need, but until we get greater line play from the nose our mlb could be Ray Lewis. Remember what happened when we owned the line of scrimmage against them on Monday night football. Ray Ray could do nothing but cry.

KCrockaholic
04-26-2010, 04:56 PM
This is Hootie at his absolute dumbest....

He's an ok guy and all, but his head is so far up Peyton Mannings ass he can't even think straight.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 04:56 PM
all I know about watching the Chiefs last year was...

I loved to see teams run on 1st and 2nd down against us...

it was our best chance of MAYBE forcing a punt...

If they just dropped back 90 times a game and didn't run the ball...I'm not sure we ever would have gotten a stop...

any time we faced a somewhat legit - legit QB, we got massacred.

You can only make so many excuses for Brandon Carr before you realize it wasn't all Mike Brown.

the Talking Can
04-26-2010, 04:57 PM
all I know about watching the Chiefs last year was...

I loved to see teams run on 1st and 2nd down against us...

it was our best chance of MAYBE forcing a punt...

If they just dropped back 90 times a game and didn't run the ball...I'm not sure we ever would have gotten a stop...

any time we faced a somewhat legit - legit QB, we got massacred.

You can only make so many excuses for Brandon Carr before you realize it wasn't all Mike Brown.


just erase your original post and we'll all pretend it didn't happen

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 04:57 PM
Hey, we got better over the last 7 games.

Enough to drop us from 52% of rushing yardage coming in the first half over the first 9 games - to 51% in the first half for the entire season.

ROFL

I wonder if that has anything to do with the quality of opponents we played? Or the fact our offense started getting first downs?

JFC dude...

Put two and two together...

All of the evidence you need is right in the Baltimore Ravens game...

That team is a running team who knew the best way to beat us was through the air.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 04:58 PM
just erase your original post and we'll all pretend it didn't happen

He's just going to keep digging that hole.

Read the post before this one for proof.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2010, 04:59 PM
but dj and dorsey were accidents...they fell to us, it felt good but lucky


i wanted Berry leading in to the draft...so it felt like getting what i wanted for the first time ever....and i'm convinced he'll live up to the hype...

Good point. We got lucky with both DJ and Dorsey. Berry was a guy that was expected to be there and we reached out and grabbed that muthafucka.

Dorsey is ready to break out. I can feel it. DJ just needs to be able to play in space and he will be fine. MLB is a serious need, but until we get greater line play from the nose our mlb could be Ray Lewis. Remember what happened when we owned the line of scrimmage against them on Monday night football. Ray Ray could do nothing but cry.

I'm incredibly optimistic. I think it's safe to say that DJ is what he is at this stage, but I'm hoping he wakes up and finds some passion for the game. Dorsey, well, this is his year. He's not in his element, and we're not using him at his greatest strength, but he's good enough to overcome it. I'm really hoping he does. He's been my favorite Chief since we drafted him. Berry may overtake that, but for now, Dorsey is still my guy.

Flachief58
04-26-2010, 04:59 PM
You know that we were REALLY bad at pretty much every single facet of playing defense last year, right?

Pass defense, rush defense, putting our cleats on the right foot. Mostly, our defense couldn't do a single thing well.

And we used the 36th overall on a scat-back and the 50th on a kick returner/corner blitzer.

We still have no LBs. We still have no SS. We still have a garbage set of down-linemen.

We will continue to suck at stopping the pass because we can't get any heat on the QB and even when we do, our LBs are all so slow and so awful that the middle of the field will be open to anyone that wants it. We will also continue to suck at stopping the run because of aforementioned old/slow/weak LBs and garbage down-linemen.

No, nobody's overlooking what we "really struggled" at. We "really struggled" at damn near everything. So we went out and put shiny new rims and a chrome rearview mirror on our '76 Fiat.

****ing. Awesome.

Yes our D sucked pretty much everywhere, but by hopefully improving our O, we helped our D by being able to put together drives instead of 3 & out's, thereby keeping the D off the field. Granted I was hoping for a defensive draft, but I can see where we're going. GO :arrow:

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 05:00 PM
just erase your original post and we'll all pretend it didn't happen

we had one roster worthy CB before taking Arenas...and probably zero roster worthy safeties before taking Berry...

Yet when Arenas was taken everyone shit a brick we didn't draft a guy to take Hali's position...our one legitimate pass rusher...

...

and I wish opponents would waste more downs on running the ball against us...that alone would make our defense much, much better.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2010, 05:00 PM
Yes our D sucked pretty much everywhere, but by hopefully improving our O, we helped our D by being able to put together drives instead of 3 & out's, thereby keeping the D off the field. Granted I was hoping for a defensive draft, but I can see where we're going. GO :arrow:

I'm trying to get right here. At least until September.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 05:01 PM
He's just going to keep digging that hole.

Read the post before this one for proof.

I'm not the idiot who kept saying teams were going to run for 300 yards against us every week in the draft thread...

Or kept talking about Jerome Harrison...

Because that wasn't even our main problem last year.

That's the point of this you dumbfuck...

Our problem last year was defending the pass...way more than defending the run.

chiefzilla1501
04-26-2010, 05:02 PM
You know that we were REALLY bad at pretty much every single facet of playing defense last year, right?

Pass defense, rush defense, putting our cleats on the right foot. Mostly, our defense couldn't do a single thing well.

And we used the 36th overall on a scat-back and the 50th on a kick returner/corner blitzer.

We still have no LBs. We still have no SS. We still have a garbage set of down-linemen.

We will continue to suck at stopping the pass because we can't get any heat on the QB and even when we do, our LBs are all so slow and so awful that the middle of the field will be open to anyone that wants it. We will also continue to suck at stopping the run because of aforementioned old/slow/weak LBs and garbage down-linemen.

No, nobody's overlooking what we "really struggled" at. We "really struggled" at damn near everything. So we went out and put shiny new rims and a chrome rearview mirror on our '76 Fiat.

****ing. Awesome.

Well, again, we had problems everywhere. Poor pass offense, poor pass defense, poor run defense, poor return game. We chose to upgrade everywhere but run defense. That doesn't mean the Chiefs don't care. That doesn't mean it's not absolute #1 priority for next season. That's the reason why I don't understand the panic. While I"d love to win more now, I'm more interested in seeing if we take a big step in the right direction. We didn't in 2009 and we wasted a year. I think we can take a major step forward in 2010, if the picks work right. If.

In terms of some ways that our upgrades can trickle into run defense, while some say ignore it, there's no doubt that upgrading at D-coordinator will make at least some difference. As well as some very mild improvements by having Shaun Smith instead of Ron Edwards. Also, you'd expect at least SOME improvement from Dorsey and Jackson. Those are things we already know and they won't be enough.

The small things you also have to account for is how a good offense can keep your defense on the field--so many of the first halves of our games were dominated by three and outs on offense. There were plenty of drives last year where our run defense did their job, but we were absolutely horrendous at third down efficiency. Adding a coverage guy like Berry and a nickel back that's better than Washington (not hard to do) won't solve everything, but it helps us improve. Those things help keep the defense off the field. How many big run plays do we eliminate by Berry being on the field instead of Mike Brown? Does having a rangy Safety like Berry allow our LBs to focus more on the run, instead of being asked to cover our Safeties' asses much of the time? Does our faster, better secondary make us more equipped to stop the outside run?

Obviously we have a long way to go and our run defense is going to be our achilles heel. But that doesn't bother me that much unless we take a big step backward as a team or we stake only a very small step forward on pass offense, run offense, and pass defense. If our picks work out, then you can devote all your 2011 focus on the LBs and NT.

dirk digler
04-26-2010, 05:04 PM
hey OTWP...

how many rushing TD's did we give up in the first 9 games...and how many passing TD's did we give up?

Total for the year we gave up 18 rushing TD and 25 receiving TD's.

2nd half of the year 13 rushing TD and 12 receiving TD's.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 05:04 PM
and the fact we improved our offensive line, receivers, running game and TE position is going to make our defense better, by default, as well...

I watched the Cowboys/Chiefs game on NFL Replay a few days ago...

Dude...

our offense...

we had Mark Bradley, Bobby Wade, Larry Johnson, Sean Ryan, ...I don't even want to start naming some of the offensive lineman...

Yeah...

chiefzilla1501
04-26-2010, 05:05 PM
our problems in the middle of the field were largely on our lbs


and hooties point - which is the point we're all responding too - is based on a) factual inaccuracies and b) a pretty complete lack of understanding of basic defense....our pass problems and run problems stem from the same source: shitty play from our front 7

Berry will help clean up some of the mistakes...but he can't magically make our front 7 do their jobs....

No, it was largely on the defensive line.

An ILB's job isn't that hard if the front 3 does their job. In a Fairbanks 3-4, that is. Nothing you can do when a whole bunch of blockers are getting to your LBs.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 05:05 PM
so lets see...

our weaknesses were depth at RB, WR, OL, TE, NT, ILB, OLB, S, CB

and people are bitching because we didn't address every single one of our 29 needs?

Holy shit.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2010, 05:08 PM
How were we weak at RB? Charles, Jones, Kolby Smith, etc. Seems fine to me.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 05:08 PM
that was before Thomas Jones...

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 05:09 PM
How were we weak at RB? Charles, Jones, Kolby Smith, etc. Seems fine to me.

Dude, he's all over the place.

Make a claim.

Get owned.

Move goalposts.

Rinse, repeat.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2010, 05:11 PM
that was before Thomas Jones...

Mah bad, I thought we were talking about the draft.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 05:14 PM
Mah bad, I thought we were talking about the draft.

Regardless, you're still right.

I can't believe he's dismissing the 2nd best rushing attack in the NFL over the last 8 games.

That's as stupid as claiming that teams padded their rushing stats in the 2nd half of games.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 05:14 PM
Regardless, you're still right.

I can't believe he's dismissing the 2nd best rushing attack in the NFL over the last 8 games.

That's as stupid as claiming that teams padded their rushing stats in the 2nd half of games.

I wasn't dismissing shit ROFL

I'm the one that started calling Jamaal Charles Chris Johnson light...

I said...

Behind Jamaal Charles...we had a weakness...

That was addressed. Happiness ensued.

the Talking Can
04-26-2010, 05:15 PM
No, it was largely on the defensive line.

An ILB's job isn't that hard if the front 3 does their job. In a Fairbanks 3-4, that is. Nothing you can do when a whole bunch of blockers are getting to your LBs.

our backers were awful too...tackling, angles, diagnosing plays...you name it


i think our dl has more hope for progress than our lbs

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 05:17 PM
I wasn't dismissing shit ROFL

I'm the one that started calling Jamaal Charles Chris Johnson light...

I said...

Behind Jamaal Charles...we had a weakness...

That was addressed. Happiness ensued.

My mistake. I didn't see the word "depth" the first time around.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 05:18 PM
at this point...we have Jackson/Dorsey/Hali/Johnson/Belcher/Studebaker/Mays from last year...that looks a hell of a lot better than Flowers/Carr/Leggett/Richardson/Washington/Morgan/Page and Brown...

Yet people are angry we didn't take Cody and Kindle!

McCluster + Arenas > Cody and Kindle...especially for this team.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 05:19 PM
at this point...we have Jackson/Dorsey/Hali/Johnson/Belcher/Studebaker/Mays from last year...that looks a hell of a lot better than Flowers/Carr/Leggett/Richardson/Washington/Morgan/Page and Brown...

Yet people are angry we didn't take Cody and Kindle!

McCluster + Arenas > Cody and Kindle...especially for this team.

Funny how you revert back to an old argument after getting owned on your original thesis.

LMAO

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 05:20 PM
If we sign John Henderson...this offseason was total, 100% WIN.

WIN WIN WIN WIN

and that might just be the tip of the iceberg...

I think Clint Ingram would be a pretty nice addition as well.

chiefzilla1501
04-26-2010, 05:20 PM
our backers were awful too...tackling, angles, diagnosing plays...you name it


i think our dl has more hope for progress than our lbs

They're adequate. But I can guarantee you those mistakes drop considerably with a more basic scheme to replace the "thinking" scheme Pendergast used, more consistent play from the D-line that limits the leaks in the line (gives the RB a lot less real estate to choose their holes), and when the LBs can stay at home more often instead of being forced to cover so much deeper ground because the Safeties aren't doing their coverage responsibilities.

The ILBs need to be replaced eventually. I just happen to think it's the absolute least most important 2 positions in a Romeo 3-4.

Just Passin' By
04-26-2010, 05:21 PM
Since people are going by the numbers, does anyone have the 1st half/2nd half breakdown of attempts and T.O.P.?

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 05:24 PM
Funny how you revert back to an old argument after getting owned on your original thesis.

LMAO

I admit, I think I got away from what I was trying to say...

GoChiefs started a thread about how we were going to allow 300 rushing yards per game...

We didn't even do that last year!

We had two horrendous games against the run...

The rest of the time...

Teams beat us with the pass. Running teams (Jax/Balt) chose to pass against us because they knew it was the more effective way to beat us...

Every single decent - good QB we played against (basically everyone other than Fitzpatrick, Russel and Quinn) tore us APART! They beat us by passing the ball, not running the ball...

So fine...

The premise of the argument for why we failed by not addressing the front 7 shouldn't be Jerome Harrison...it should be Joe Flacco.

the Talking Can
04-26-2010, 05:25 PM
They're adequate. But I can guarantee you those mistakes drop considerably with a more basic scheme to replace the "thinking" scheme Pendergast used, more consistent play from the D-line that limits the leaks in the line (gives the RB a lot less real estate to choose their holes), and when the LBs can stay at home more often instead of being forced to cover so much deeper ground because the Safeties aren't doing their coverage responsibilities.

The ILBs need to be replaced eventually. I just happen to think it's the absolute least most important 2 positions in a Romeo 3-4.

i'll buy that....

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2010, 05:31 PM
If we sign John Henderson...this offseason was total, 100% WIN.

WIN WIN WIN WIN

and that might just be the tip of the iceberg...

I think Clint Ingram would be a pretty nice addition as well.

I agree. But I LOVE Chris Chambers. Love him! I don't care if he fell in our lap, I'm just glad we got him resigned. Thomas Jones came on the cheap.

As much as I talk about how I don't like this draft outside of a couple of picks, Pioli and company is doing MUCH better than they did in their evaluation year.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 05:39 PM
I admit, I think I got away from what I was trying to say...

GoChiefs started a thread about how we were going to allow 300 rushing yards per game...

We didn't even do that last year!

We had two horrendous games against the run....

Not true.

We had 10 games where we allowed over 120 rushing yards.

We had 8 games where we allowed over 150.

We had 5 games where we allowed over 180.

Personally, I think anything over 120 is horrendous, that's bottom 1/3 of the league.

150 YPC isn't even arguable. That's absolutely horrendous, and it happened 8 times.



That's horrendous.

RustShack
04-26-2010, 05:40 PM
Hilarious. That or for drafting a certain no-talent QB that 32 teams have already passed on once.

Your probably one of those people bashing people who watched Brady and said he will be good and saying yeah hes so good 32 teams passed on him 5 or 6 times.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 05:44 PM
Let's keep blaming the pass defense, claiming QB's beat us, not our run defense.

Let's keep ignoring that there were 8 games in which we had allowed 70+ rushing yards by halftime.

Good teams give up 80 in a game.

Nah, the run defense stats were just skewed by teams padding stats in the 2nd half...

ROFL

ChiefsCountry
04-26-2010, 05:51 PM
Cleveland game sure showed that our pass defense was why teams could run on us.

chiefzilla1501
04-26-2010, 05:53 PM
Cleveland game sure showed that our pass defense was why teams could run on us.

But does it justify that the biggest problem is our ILBs? Or does that just go to show that better play from Dorsey, Jackson, and eventually a Nose Tackle will take us a big step forward?

Because I would argue that what really fucked us that game was not having Dorsey.

petegz28
04-26-2010, 05:55 PM
The defense was also killed by our own offense. The offense had our defense on the field most of the game. There were very few time consuming drives by our offense and several, several, SEVERAL 3 and outs. It's hard for a good defense to play 40 mins a game let alone a defense full of rookies and average talent, guys in new positions and bonehead for a DC.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 05:57 PM
But does it justify that the biggest problem is our ILBs? Or does that just go to show that better play from Dorsey, Jackson, and eventually a Nose Tackle will take us a big step forward?

Because I would argue that what really fucked us that game was not having Dorsey.

Is that why we gave up an average of 143 yards a game when Dorsey WAS playing?

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 05:59 PM
The defense was also killed by our own offense. The offense had our defense on the field most of the game. There were very few time consuming drives by our offense and several, several, SEVERAL 3 and outs. It's hard for a good defense to play 40 mins a game let alone a defense full of rookies and average talent, guys in new positions and bonehead for a DC.


If Hootie's thesis was correct, I'd agree with you.

But when you average 80 rushing yards against per game - in the FIRST HALF, you really can't blame the offense.

petegz28
04-26-2010, 06:00 PM
Is that why we gave up an average of 143 yards a game when Dorsey WAS playing?

Anymore giving up 143 yard rushing seems to almost be becoming the norm. I don't know but without looking I would say that giving up over 100 yards a game was probably more common in the NFL than it wasn't.

Our biggest problem on defense was by the time we started the 4th quarter they had already been on the field over 30 minutes.

petegz28
04-26-2010, 06:01 PM
If Hootie's thesis was correct, I'd agree with you.

But when you average 80 rushing yards against per game - in the FIRST HALF, you really can't blame the offense.

What? What ****ing Chiefs team did you watch last year? How many times did we go 3 and out? I can surely remember this very board going apeshit cause it didn't matter if it was 3-9 or 3-2 we would come up a yard or two short. We exceled at negative yardage plays either by not getting the yards or penalties. Or by failing to put the ball in the endzone and giving the defense some breathing room.

chiefzilla1501
04-26-2010, 06:02 PM
Is that why we gave up an average of 143 yards a game when Dorsey WAS playing?

The run defense was really bad without Dorsey. But without Dorsey, that side of the line was completely flat-out embarrassed.

Which begs the question of what happens when Tyson Jackson gets better, which he should (I've come to grips that he won't be elite, but you'd expect improvement). And eventually a Nose Tackle, which everyone knows is a must.... at some point.

I firmly believe that if you get really solid play from your front 3, you don't need a ton of ILB help.

chiefzilla1501
04-26-2010, 06:04 PM
Anymore giving up 143 yard rushing seems to almost be becoming the norm. I don't know but without looking I would say that giving up over 100 yards a game was probably more common in the NFL than it wasn't.

Our biggest problem on defense was by the time we started the 4th quarter they had already been on the field over 30 minutes.

That wasn't the only problem.

Our run defense needs more consistent play from the OLBs. They need FAR more consistent play from the DEs. They need a true Nose Tackle.

But I do agree that keeping them off the field will make them better. It's just not going to improve a whole ton.

petegz28
04-26-2010, 06:05 PM
That wasn't the only problem.

Our run defense needs more consistent play from the OLBs. They need FAR more consistent play from the DEs. They need a true Nose Tackle.

But I do agree that keeping them off the field will make them better. It's just not going to improve a whole ton.

I think it would improve a lot more than peope are giving credit for. Liken it to Royals pitching, if you will. The defense had to play to never let a team score at all because even giving up a FG would spell a loss.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 06:06 PM
Anymore giving up 143 yard rushing seems to almost be becoming the norm. I don't know but without looking I would say that giving up over 100 yards a game was probably more common in the NFL than it wasn't.

Giving up 143 rushing yards a game is the norm?

ROFL


Our biggest problem on defense was by the time we started the 4th quarter they had already been on the field over 30 minutes.

Dear God. They were on the field for just under 33 minutes a game.

That is lopsided, but teams like Philly and Washington were only a minute behind them, and they were Top 10 defenses.

Our biggest problem is that by the time the 3rd quarter started, we had already given up 80 rushing yards.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 06:06 PM
There is no point in arguing with OTWP...

We all know what the stats say...

As a guy who watched every single game...

I'll tell you what I saw...

A team that was miserable against the pass...and miserable at times against the run.

But we were hurt more by teams passing the ball than we were by teams running the ball...I witnessed that with my own two eyes...don't care what the stats say...we couldn't get teams off the field because we couldn't get stops on 3rd down...

petegz28
04-26-2010, 06:07 PM
Giving up 143 rushing yards a game is the norm?

ROFL




Dear God. They were on the field for just under 33 minutes a game.

That is lopsided, but teams like Philly and Washington were only a minute behind them, and they were Top 10 defenses.

Our biggest problem is that by the time the 3rd quarter started, we had already given up 80 rushing yards.

Philly also scored more and had better defensive talent. Washinton also had better defensive talent and a terrible offense.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 06:07 PM
Giving up 143 rushing yards a game is the norm?

ROFL




Dear God. They were on the field for just under 33 minutes a game.

That is lopsided, but teams like Philly and Washington were only a minute behind them, and they were Top 10 defenses.

Our biggest problem is that by the time the 3rd quarter started, we had already given up 80 rushing yards.

and how many passing yards had we already given up?

We gave up a lot of yards in the 1st half because we were a terrible, terrible, terrible offensive team...and a terrible team in general.

We were worst against the pass than we were against the run...

I loved when teams ran the ball on 2nd and 10...or 2nd and 9...that was awesome...

we were better against 3rd and 4 than we were on 3rd and 10...

chiefzilla1501
04-26-2010, 06:08 PM
I think it would improve a lot more than peope are giving credit for. Liken it to Royals pitching, if you will. The defense had to play to never let a team score at all because even giving up a FG would spell a loss.

It shouldn't be horrendous as last year. It'll be better than last year. It's still going to struggle. Without a true Nose Tackle, the most important part of the 3-4 Defense.

I don't disagree with people who point out the importance of an OLB and a NT. I just don't agree that it was so urgent that we had to, had to get it right now.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 06:08 PM
The defense couldn't get off the field, what is with this propensity to blame the other side of the ball all the time?

First it was the defense sucks because the offense is to good now the defense sucks because the offense sucks. How about the defense sucks because the defense sucks?

chiefzilla1501
04-26-2010, 06:09 PM
There is no point in arguing with OTWP...

We all know what the stats say...

As a guy who watched every single game...

I'll tell you what I saw...

A team that was miserable against the pass...and miserable at times against the run.

But we were hurt more by teams passing the ball than we were by teams running the ball...I witnessed that with my own two eyes...don't care what the stats say...we couldn't get teams off the field because we couldn't get stops on 3rd down...

Dude the team wasn't terrible "at times" against the run.

They were bad against the run.

Let's not sugar coat things and create false expectations.

They're going to struggle this season unless they get a true Nose Tackle. I just don't think it's anything to panic about just yet.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 06:11 PM
1st game against Baltimore:

they had the ball for 40 minutes to our 20 minutes...

They ran for 150 yards...

Does anyone think that was the problem that game?

I know it wasn't.

They used the pass to beat us that game...and our offense couldn't sustain any drives.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 06:12 PM
We still lack most of the front 7 personnel to properly run the scheme, until this team properly addresses NT and the LB's we'll continually be taken advantage of in the run game and short to intermediate passing game.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 06:16 PM
What? What ****ing Chiefs team did you watch last year? How many times did we go 3 and out? I can surely remember this very board going apeshit cause it didn't matter if it was 3-9 or 3-2 we would come up a yard or two short. We exceled at negative yardage plays either by not getting the yards or penalties. Or by failing to put the ball in the endzone and giving the defense some breathing room.

Dear God.

TOP is NOT the problem.

If TOP was the problem, you'd see the opposition with MORE rushing yards in the 2nd half, when the defense is worn down, than in the first half.

That's not the case.

The run defense sucks. Period.

It sucks early in games.

It sucks in the middle of games.

It sucks late in games.

The numbers bear this out.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 06:16 PM
the defense did suck...

but the offense didn't help anything...until Charles created some hope I'm sure everyone on the team was just miserable...including the defense who had to watch are abortion of an offense operate in 2nd and 20's and 2nd and 14's and 3rd and 19's all the fucking time.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 06:18 PM
There is no point in arguing with OTWP...

We all know what the stats say...

As a guy who watched every single game...

I'll tell you what I saw...

A team that was miserable against the pass...and miserable at times against the run.

But we were hurt more by teams passing the ball than we were by teams running the ball...I witnessed that with my own two eyes...don't care what the stats say...we couldn't get teams off the field because we couldn't get stops on 3rd down...

I wouldn't argue with me if I were you either. You've been thoroughly owned in this thread, and per your usual, you try to deflect to another argument.

chiefzilla1501
04-26-2010, 06:18 PM
the defense did suck...

but the offense didn't help anything...until Charles created some hope I'm sure everyone on the team was just miserable...including the defense who had to watch are abortion of an offense operate in 2nd and 20's and 2nd and 14's and 3rd and 19's all the ****ing time.

Yes, better offensive TOP will make this run defense better. Agree with that. Lots of other things will too.

But these are things that move them from embarrassingly bad to bad. It's an improvement, but it's still a major liability.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 06:20 PM
This defense sucks because we don't have personnel to run it, not because of TOP.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 06:20 PM
Dear God.

TOP is NOT the problem.

If TOP was the problem, you'd see the opposition with MORE rushing yards in the 2nd half, when the defense is worn down, than in the first half.

That's not the case.

The run defense sucks. Period.

It sucks early in games.

It sucks in the middle of games.

It sucks late in games.

The numbers bear this out.

Fine.

It sucks.

Yet running teams used the pass to beat us rather than the run because passing is absolute and most backs don't gain 5 yards, 5 yards, 5 yards, 5 yards, 6 yards, 5 yards, 8 yards, 4 yards, 4 yards, 9 yards to establish their average...

Why risk 2nd and 10 on a run that might go for 2 yards rather than 8 when you can just pass the ball against our porous defense and get a new set of downs that way?

Are you not getting the point?

Our defense was BAD last year...our offense was BAD last year...

But it wasn't just the front 7 that needed fixed...the secondary needed fixed...and a lot of the offense needed fix...

If anything, we've spent more resources on our front 7 than anything...

Time for Jackson/Dorsey/Hali and *MAYBE* Johnson to start becoming impact players...we saw what Johnson is capable of week 17...maybe with good coaching and maturity he might be ok after all...

who fucking knows...

Either way...we filled needs with every single draft pick...and we got playmakers...

and people are crying because we didn't take Kindle and Cody?

Boofuckinghoo!

WWW.RAVENSPLANET.COM

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 06:22 PM
I wouldn't argue with me if I were you either. You've been thoroughly owned in this thread, and per your usual, you try to deflect to another argument.

are you 5'9" or shorter?

you have some of the worst little man syndrome I have EVER seen.

That's why I asked how tall you were in real life the other day...

Man...neg rep me if I'm wrong...

but 5'9" or shorter? Right?

Mecca
04-26-2010, 06:23 PM
Teams can do whatever they want to this defense, it doesn't fucking matter if we have a nickel CB or 2 all pro CB's and the best safety ever invented.

Without a front 7 that can stop the run and provide a pass rush you're secondary is gonna get raped.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 06:24 PM
Yes, better offensive TOP will make this run defense better. Agree with that. Lots of other things will too.

But these are things that move them from embarrassingly bad to bad. It's an improvement, but it's still a major liability.

Exactly.

In the games in which we either led in TOP, or were within 30 of equal, we gave up 127 rushing yards per game.

Still shitty.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 06:26 PM
we have plenty of talent in our front 7...time for them to start becoming the impact players they are supposed to be...

Unlike you fucking disaster "fans", I'll continue to celebrate the epic win we pulled off on draft weekend!

(you fucking morons always refuse to acknowledge the fact that over the last 4 drafts, 11/128 2nd round picks have made a pro bowl...Cody and Kindle weren't suddenly going to make our defense a stout run defense that solved all of our problems)

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 06:26 PM
Fine.

It sucks.

Yet running teams used the pass to beat us rather than the run because passing is absolute and most backs don't gain 5 yards, 5 yards, 5 yards, 5 yards, 6 yards, 5 yards, 8 yards, 4 yards, 4 yards, 9 yards to establish their average...

Go back and read the play-by-play.

That's EXACTLY what happened to us.

You just choose to ignore it.

petegz28
04-26-2010, 06:27 PM
I'm not saying TOP was THE reason the D sucked. I am not saying the offense was THE reason the D sucked. I am sayin the offense did not help a below average D by always going 3 and out and putting our D in less than favorable field position most of the time. It just compounded the pain.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 06:28 PM
Go back and read the play-by-play.

That's EXACTLY what happened to us.

You just choose to ignore it.

play-by-play for what game?

the only time our defense ever got off the field was when someone dropped a pass or if we were in 3rd and short and the opposing offense over thought themselves...

that was about it...

that's how bad our defense was last year...

it wasn't just the front 7...it wasn't just Ron Edwards and Mike Brown...

it was everyone...

We needed to improve the secondary every bit as much as we needed a NT or ILB...

Mecca
04-26-2010, 06:28 PM
we have plenty of talent in our front 7...time for them to start becoming the impact players they are supposed to be...

Unlike you fucking disaster "fans", I'll continue to celebrate the epic win we pulled off on draft weekend!

(you fucking morons always refuse to acknowledge the fact that over the last 4 drafts, 11/128 2nd round picks have made a pro bowl...Cody and Kindle weren't suddenly going to make our defense a stout run defense that solved all of our problems)

We have 2 high picks playing 5 tech end, we have a 1st round 1 dimensional OLB who is solid rushing the passer and a liability against the run, the rest of our LB's are total balls and we don't have a nose..

How is this plenty of talent? Even if you like Derrick Johnson and think Tyson Jackson is gonna break out that's basically 2-4 players out of 7, that's not plenty when the other guys probably don't belong on an NFL field.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 06:28 PM
are you 5'9" or shorter?

you have some of the worst little man syndrome I have EVER seen.

That's why I asked how tall you were in real life the other day...

Man...neg rep me if I'm wrong...

but 5'9" or shorter? Right?

Nope.

And it's comical claiming I have little man syndrome when I've (and others) have thoroughly owned you in this thread, and you continue to move the goalposts, hoping something sticks.

Your premise is ridiculous.

The stats bear this out.

Be a man, admit you're wrong, and move on.

chiefzilla1501
04-26-2010, 06:29 PM
we have plenty of talent in our front 7...time for them to start becoming the impact players they are supposed to be...

Unlike you ****ing disaster "fans", I'll continue to celebrate the epic win we pulled off on draft weekend!

(you ****ing morons always refuse to acknowledge the fact that over the last 4 drafts, 11/128 2nd round picks have made a pro bowl...Cody and Kindle weren't suddenly going to make our defense a stout run defense that solved all of our problems)

No, we don't.

We don't have enough talent at the two most important positions (OLB and especially NT). Nose Tackles are supposed to soak up 3 blockers. Ours can't even take on one. And while Shaun Smith is an upgrade, by how much? And Studebaker, I think, is actually a decent run defender, but he'll always be a liability in the passing game.

And believe me, I've very publicly expressed that I don't mind passing on Cody and Kindle. But I'm not going to ignore that it's a problem.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 06:30 PM
Here's what's gonna happen, the TOP is gonna actually get worse because Berry will make tackles that got missed last year so instead of seeing 40 yard plays we'll see 8 yard plays.

I get that we have far to many holes to plug everything in 1 year but I don't expect any major steps from the defense this year, we have a outstanding safety and Cb to build around and we need to pray Jackson develops so we'll only need 3/4 guys to have a good defense.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 06:32 PM
No, we don't.

We don't have enough talent at the two most important positions (OLB and especially NT). Nose Tackles are supposed to soak up 3 blockers. Ours can't even take on one. And while Shaun Smith is an upgrade, by how much? And Studebaker, I think, is actually a decent run defender, but he'll always be a liability in the passing game.

And believe me, I've very publicly expressed that I don't mind passing on Cody and Kindle. But I'm not going to ignore that it's a problem.

Please don't take offense, but...

When Chiefzilla isn't defending the team, you know the argument in question is fucked.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 06:32 PM
Nope.

And it's comical claiming I have little man syndrome when I've (and others) have thoroughly owned you in this thread, and you continue to move the goalposts, hoping something sticks.

Your premise is ridiculous.

The stats bear this out.

Be a man, admit you're wrong, and move on.

dude...you have little man's syndrome if I've ever seen it...

everything is about owning this, or owning that...or starting a poll to see if people need me on this site...or if they don't need me...

dude...

get a grip

get some real life friends or something...

See...unlike you and Mecca and Hamas Jenkins...I don't fucking care if you think you "owned" me on this website...

I will continue to form my own opinions about the one pro franchise I truly care about...and I could give two shits whether or not you and Hamas Jenkins agree with me.

I loved our draft...I could careless we didn't take Kindle or Cody...I feel good about being a Chiefs fan right now...

so you three have fun jerking each other off and crying about how it's not fair Clark just Scott over you three...a school teacher/a man suffering from little guy syndrome/and a 30 year old fatass who has never had a job and lives with his parents...

excuse me for not envying any of you

petegz28
04-26-2010, 06:33 PM
No, we don't.

We don't have enough talent at the two most important positions (OLB and especially NT). Nose Tackles are supposed to soak up 3 blockers. Ours can't even take on one. And while Shaun Smith is an upgrade, by how much? And Studebaker, I think, is actually a decent run defender, but he'll always be a liability in the passing game.

And believe me, I've very publicly expressed that I don't mind passing on Cody and Kindle. But I'm not going to ignore that it's a problem.

I think we have more talent than people give us credit for. It's just a matter of getting them to play to that level. Gunther and Penderass were not very good at doing so. Right now the biggest liability on our defense, imo, is Vrabel. I think if DJ can become consistant we will be much improved at the LB spot. Hali is a legit pass rushing threat. Anyone who says otherwise is on crack. We need Dorsey and Jackson to step it up this year.

Plus we have a DC who hopefully knows WTF he is doing now and the whole Greg Robinson 2.0 version of the defense we saw last year will go bye-bye.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 06:33 PM
I like when Hootie changes arguments when it becomes completely obvious his argument is fucked.

chiefzilla1501
04-26-2010, 06:33 PM
Here's what's gonna happen, the TOP is gonna actually get worse because Berry will make tackles that got missed last year so instead of seeing 40 yard plays we'll see 8 yard plays.

I get that we have far to many holes to plug everything in 1 year but I don't expect any major steps from the defense this year, we have a outstanding safety and Cb to build around and we need to pray Jackson develops so we'll only need 3/4 guys to have a good defense.

I don't agree with this. We also have a run offense that I think is going to be very, very effective at extending drives. I think our TOP does improve and that it improves our run defense.

But it's probably going to lose us quite a few games. This year.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 06:33 PM
Please don't take offense, but...

When Chiefzilla isn't defending the team, you know the argument in question is ****ed.

why don't you post a poll about it!!!

yeah!

post a poll

post a poll to see if chiefzilla likes to defend the team!

polls solve everything!

and while you're at it

post another poll to see if people think you can bench 10 reps of your body weight! I bet they think you can! You post like a big strong man!

Mecca
04-26-2010, 06:34 PM
I think we have more talent than people give us credit for. It's just a matter of getting them to play to that level. Gunther and Penderass were not very good at doing so. Right now the biggest liability on our defense, imo, is Vrabel. I think if DJ can become consistant we will be much improved at the LB spot. Hali is a legit pass rushing threat. Anyone who says otherwise is on crack. We need Dorsey and Jackson to step it up this year.

Plus we have a DC who hopefully knows WTF he is doing now and the whole Greg Robinson 2.0 version of the defense we saw last year will go bye-bye.

Look man, Hali is a solid yet unspectacular player, we can get by with him he's far from the biggest issue, he'll get his 8-10 sacks and get run on we know the drill.

As far as DJ goes, he is what he is, he's been in the league forever now, the light just isn't gonna go on, he is what he is at this point. It's time to stop hoping and just admit the guy is who he is.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 06:35 PM
dude...you have little man's syndrome if I've ever seen it...

everything is about owning this, or owning that...or starting a poll to see if people need me on this site...or if they don't need me...

dude...

get a grip

get some real life friends or something...

See...unlike you and Mecca and Hamas Jenkins...I don't fucking care if you think you "owned" me on this website...

I will continue to form my own opinions about the one pro franchise I truly care about...and I could give two shits whether or not you and Hamas Jenkins agree with me.

I loved our draft...I could careless we didn't take Kindle or Cody...I feel good about being a Chiefs fan right now...

so you three have fun jerking each other off and crying about how it's not fair Clark just Scott over you three...a school teacher/a man suffering from little guy syndrome/and a 30 year old fatass who has never had a job and lives with his parents...

excuse me for not envying any of you

Shocking.

You've run out of goalposts to move in attempt to defend your terrible argument, so you go with the last-ditch effort in form of a personal attack.

So predictable. So pathetic.

Have a good night. I have no further use for you.

aturnis
04-26-2010, 06:35 PM
You know that we were REALLY bad at pretty much every single facet of playing defense last year, right?

Pass defense, rush defense, putting our cleats on the right foot. Mostly, our defense couldn't do a single thing well.

And we used the 36th overall on a scat-back and the 50th on a kick returner/corner blitzer.

We still have no LBs. We still have no SS. We still have a garbage set of down-linemen.

We will continue to suck at stopping the pass because we can't get any heat on the QB and even when we do, our LBs are all so slow and so awful that the middle of the field will be open to anyone that wants it. We will also continue to suck at stopping the run because of aforementioned old/slow/weak LBs and garbage down-linemen.

No, nobody's overlooking what we "really struggled" at. We "really struggled" at damn near everything. So we went out and put shiny new rims and a chrome rearview mirror on our '76 Fiat.

****ing. Awesome.

Think it's funny that OTWP would call that /thread. It wreaks of idiocy.

This statement here is completely wrong. How is the middle of the field going to be "open to anyone who wants it" when we have a guy like Berry who can play up in the box taking away the short middle, and a guy like Arenas, whom Pioli and Haley basically said his main value comes from his ability to move inside and cover the slot. While not everyone can do that, they believe Arenas can. Not to mention this is DJ's strength.

The problem last year was, that even if we took away the outside receivers and god pressure(which most of the time, Hali did) the QB could just toss one across the middle and find an open TE.

With the new players, it should make our coverage better, giving our line more time to get pressure. With another year each under TJ and Dorsey's belts, they should each be a little more effective on third down. Not to mention the addition of Shaun Smith and whomever we get before the season starts should be able to collapse the pocket better than Ron Edwards. These factors will give Tamba that extra 1/2 second he needs to get there to the QB, and negate his ability to step forward to avoid the rush. Thus improving the pass rush.

Said QB can try to force a pass, and may get lucky, but he stands more of a chance now, of throwing balls like Orton threw to DJ last year. Only now, we should have 3 guys in the middle who can take the ball away, knock it down, or aid the passrushers by buying time.

Defense should be MUCH improved. Simply for the ability to get off of the field on 3rd down. Sorry, Meat Dragon's right.

The funny thing is though, that Dane is the only drafturbator left who can be respected. He, like the rest of the drafturbators wanted playmakers. When the Chiefs went out and got them, they all cried foul, b/c they weren't the playmakers that they had wanted. Proving they were only negative, for negative sake. Kudos Dane, you've gained my respect, not that you care...

the Talking Can
04-26-2010, 06:36 PM
we have plenty of talent in our front 7...time for them to start becoming the impact players they are supposed to be...

Unlike you ****ing disaster "fans", I'll continue to celebrate the epic win we pulled off on draft weekend!

(you ****ing morons always refuse to acknowledge the fact that over the last 4 drafts, 11/128 2nd round picks have made a pro bowl...Cody and Kindle weren't suddenly going to make our defense a stout run defense that solved all of our problems)

it's hilarious how childish you react instead of just admitting your premise was wrong....

Mecca
04-26-2010, 06:36 PM
I don't agree with this. We also have a run offense that I think is going to be very, very effective at extending drives. I think our TOP does improve and that it improves our run defense.

But it's probably going to lose us quite a few games. This year.

Well I'm saying that instead of seeing them give up huge plays we'll see a lot more 8-15 yard plays because Berry alone should vastly improve that, which leads to longer drives.

I like Charles, but I'm not overly confident in Cassel's ability to move the chains on 3rd down.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 06:36 PM
I like when Hootie changes arguments when it becomes completely obvious his argument is ****ed.

I don't think my argument is fucked.

I watched every down of every game last year (other than the Bills game...I couldn't take it anymore)...

I LOVED when teams ran on us on 2nd and 10...

I was like...

"Damn, thanks for wasting that down on a 3-5 yard run!"

That was our best shot to get a stop...

3rd and 3 - 3rd and 5...

I was never worried about our porous run defense...

Now every time they passed the ball...

(as evidenced by the career games a ton of QB's had against us last year)...

that was the REAL problem.

Now we added some playmakers with great football instincts to our secondary...next year we'll focus on some linebackers if the value is there...

Pioli WINS this offseason...especially if we land Henderson and a few other guys...

Win/win/win!!!

But hey...

If it's fun to bitch about UDFA's in a thread for you guys, keep it up!

(that thread is comedic gold...hamas swears away the team for the 10,000th time because we weren't signing guys who went undrafted that he thought might be good players! Are you fucking kidding me???)

Fucking know-it-all losers...get lives. LIVES. (Mecca...you may want to start with a job)...

petegz28
04-26-2010, 06:37 PM
Look man, Hali is a solid yet unspectacular player, we can get by with him he's far from the biggest issue, he'll get his 8-10 sacks and get run on we know the drill.

As far as DJ goes, he is what he is, he's been in the league forever now, the light just isn't gonna go on, he is what he is at this point. It's time to stop hoping and just admit the guy is who he is.

DJ is going on his 4th DC and 4th system. He made the best plays on defense last year. What is going on between his ears? I don't know. But as long as it is mental and not physical there is always hope it can improve. And we know he has the physical talent.

aturnis
04-26-2010, 06:38 PM
Shocking.

You've run out of goalposts to move in attempt to defend your terrible argument, so you go with the last-ditch effort in form of a personal attack.

So predictable. So pathetic.

Have a good night. I have no further use for you.

OTWP's tried and true, "I've run out of arguments" post. :clap:

petegz28
04-26-2010, 06:39 PM
Well I'm saying that instead of seeing them give up huge plays we'll see a lot more 8-15 yard plays because Berry alone should vastly improve that, which leads to longer drives.

I like Charles, but I'm not overly confident in Cassel's ability to move the chains on 3rd down.

I'm not a Cassel fan and this is well known. But 8 drops a game doesn't help him at all.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 06:39 PM
I like when Hootie changes arguments when it becomes completely obvious his argument is fucked.

See: DSM-IV - Projection, Distortion, Denial.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 06:40 PM
it's hilarious how childish you react instead of just admitting your premise was wrong....

everyone's premise was wrong then...

we shouldn't be worried about Jerome Harrison if this is the case...

We should be worried about Joe Flacco, David Garrard, and Eli Manning...beatable QB's that had Peyton Manning like games against our defense last year...

We added playmakers to prevent that from happening...

So if teams think the best way to beat us is to beat us on the ground rather than through the air like last year...then sign me up! I rather see us lose because we can't stop the run than lose because we can't do anything, and our only prayer is that we get lucky and get a negative run here and there...but even if it's 3rd and 13 the opposition usually was good for a 15 yard pass last season...

Mecca
04-26-2010, 06:41 PM
Derrick Johnson is still today, the exact same guy he was when he was drafted, I think it's just time to admit, he's never gonna be a great player. I'll take average player that doesn't fuck up at this point.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 06:42 PM
See: DSM-IV - Projection, Distortion, Denial.

I need to see proof you aren't 5'9" or shorter...

At this point, until I see proof...I'm just going to assume you have little man's syndrome.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 06:42 PM
OTWP's tried and true, "I've run out of arguments" post. :clap:

Run out of arguments?

This argument effectively ended at post 33.

I'm just sitting back and enjoying watching him dig a deeper hole and make an ass of himself.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 06:42 PM
everyone's premise was wrong then...

we shouldn't be worried about Jerome Harrison if this is the case...

We should be worried about Joe Flacco, David Garrard, and Eli Manning...beatable QB's that had Peyton Manning like games against our defense last year...

We added playmakers to prevent that from happening...

So if teams think the best way to beat us is to beat us on the ground rather than through the air like last year...then sign me up! I rather see us lose because we can't stop the run than lose because we can't do anything, and our only prayer is that we get lucky and get a negative run here and there...but even if it's 3rd and 13 the opposition usually was good for a 15 yard pass last season...

Look for the last time, it does not matter what your secondary looks like if you have no pass rush you are going to get passed on.

The quickest way to play good defense is to defend the run and sack the QB, not to draft 5 CB's and cover for 10 seconds.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 06:44 PM
either that or he wasn't very athletic...

he was one of those guys that tried to play all of the sports...gave it his best effort every time...gave his blood, sweat and tears to every program he played for in high school...but his physical shortcoming kept him from ever playing...all the while people who were lazier and couldn't give two shits got all of the playing time because of their natural abilities...

I know a guy like this...he's a great guy...one of the nicest people I know...but to this day he's never been able to shake the "little man's syndrome" he experienced in high school when everyone picked at him for being so unathletic and awkward.

petegz28
04-26-2010, 06:44 PM
Another fact most seem to want to ignore is the 3-4 is traditionally a pass defense, not a run defense.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 06:44 PM
I need to see proof you aren't 5'9" or shorter...

At this point, until I see proof...I'm just going to assume you have little man's syndrome.

ROFL

When you can't win an argument, resort to "I'm taller than you."

FTR, I'm a fraction shy of 5-11.

Ask BRC, Phobia, Guru, Fish, Coach, Monty, Ari - they've all met me.*

*Here it comes, the "I was right because I'm close" post.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 06:44 PM
Look for the last time, it does not matter what your secondary looks like if you have no pass rush you are going to get passed on.

The quickest way to play good defense is to defend the run and sack the QB, not to draft 5 CB's and cover for 10 seconds.

we drafted a once in a generation safety, a CB who was the most dynamic returner in college football, and another safety in the 5th round...

I don't know where or when we drafted 5 CB's...

Mecca
04-26-2010, 06:45 PM
Another fact most seem to want to ignore is the 3-4 is traditionally a pass defense, not a run defense.

Would you like to explain to me how the Steelers and Ravens have generally had top 5 run defenses then?

petegz28
04-26-2010, 06:45 PM
Look for the last time, it does not matter what your secondary looks like if you have no pass rush you are going to get passed on.

The quickest way to play good defense is to defend the run and sack the QB, not to draft 5 CB's and cover for 10 seconds.

Have you never heard of a coverage sack? It can go both ways. Good coverage makes the QB hold the ball that much longer. We need an improved pass rush I won't lie. It can't be only Hali. But not letting guys run wide open over the middle will help the pass rush.

petegz28
04-26-2010, 06:46 PM
Would you like to explain to me how the Steelers and Ravens have generally had top 5 run defenses then?

I said "traditionally".

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 06:46 PM
it's hilarious how childish you react instead of just admitting your premise was wrong....

Let him go, it's fucking hilarious.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 06:46 PM
I enjoy how Hootie is just going to the "you're this and you're that" posts now, why don't you just tell OTW he looks funny and smells bad, it would be about the same.

petegz28
04-26-2010, 06:47 PM
Would you like to explain to me how the Steelers and Ravens have generally had top 5 run defenses then?

BTW, both of those teams have a stud at the S position.

the Talking Can
04-26-2010, 06:48 PM
you can't decouple problems in the run D and problems in the pass D...they stem from the same source, the front 7

of course Berry is going to help clean some of it up, but he can't keep it all from happening...


pressure on the QB is the way you disrupt passing offenses in the league now...something we are terrible at....it's why flowers looks good instead of great, why Carr looks bad instead of decent, and why Berry will look less than "great" for awhile even as he makes some great plays

Mecca
04-26-2010, 06:48 PM
Have you never heard of a coverage sack? It can go both ways. Good coverage makes the QB hold the ball that much longer. We need an improved pass rush I won't lie. It can't be only Hali. But not letting guys run wide open over the middle will help the pass rush.

That's nice, coverage sacks happen occasionally, but you shouldn't be building your team to get them.

Berry is going to be a great player, Brandon Flowers is a really good player as well, I don't think we're doing them any favors at the moment.

Frankly the Chiefs secondary is better than several good teams secondaries, the difference is they get a pass rush and defend the run.

the Talking Can
04-26-2010, 06:48 PM
BTW, both of those teams have a stud at the S position.

and great linebacking cores and stud NT

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 06:49 PM
ROFL

When you can't win an argument, resort to "I'm taller than you."

FTR, I'm a fraction shy of 5-11.

Ask BRC, Phobia, Guru, Fish, Coach, Monty, Ari - they've all met me.*

*Here it comes, the "I was right because I'm close" post.

no you would have been fine until you used the "I'm a fraction shy"...

who does that?

what's the matter little guy!?!? Not good enough to play so now you have to latch on to your reputation on a football message board???

See me...

I don't give a shit that everyone hates me. I'm ok with it...I was good at everything I ever did and making friends comes easy to me...I don't need respect on ChiefsPlanet.com to feel like I'm worth a shit...

petegz28
04-26-2010, 06:49 PM
you can't decouple problems in the run D and problems in the pass D...they stem from the same source, the front 7

of course Berry is going to help clean some of it up, but he can't keep it all from happening...


pressure on the QB is the way you disrupt passing offenses in the league now...something we are terrible at....it's why flowers looks good instead of great, why Carr looks bad instead of decent, and why Berry will look less than "great" for awhile even as he makes some great plays

Well I am hoping with the improvment at the S position you are going to see our CB's playing up more on the WR's instead of 15 yards off.

petegz28
04-26-2010, 06:50 PM
and great linebacking cores and stud NT

We aren't going to get it all overnight. Not with all the holes this team has.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 06:52 PM
Quick, can anyone even name 1 CB on the Ravens or Steelers worth a shit? Let alone having a "nickel CB" that's good, they both have a great safety marginal CB's and play top notch defense because of what their front 7's do.

Having good CB's is nice, the Chiefs have better CB's than those 2 teams do.

the Talking Can
04-26-2010, 06:55 PM
That's nice, coverage sacks happen occasionally, but you shouldn't be building your team to get them.

Berry is going to be a great player, Brandon Flowers is a really good player as well, I don't think we're doing them any favors at the moment.

Frankly the Chiefs secondary is better than several good teams secondaries, the difference is they get a pass rush and defend the run.

you can't decouple problems in the run D and problems in the pass D...they stem from the same source, the front 7

of course Berry is going to help clean some of it up, but he can't keep it all from happening...


pressure on the QB is the way you disrupt passing offenses in the league now...something we are terrible at....it's why flowers looks good instead of great, why Carr looks bad instead of decent, and why Berry will look less than "great" for awhile even as he makes some great plays


posted simultaneously

ncCHIEFfan
04-26-2010, 06:55 PM
we are still in the "offseason", hopefully we pick up some good talent for the front 7

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 06:56 PM
is there a ravensplanet.com where these losers could go???

If mecca was a Ravens fan I'm sure he'd be happy every year when they continue to lose in the playoffs...if they even make it that far.

STFU

Mecca is so qualified to have an opinion...I sure want to listen to 80,000 posts of superior knowledge from a what, 29 year old dude that has never lived away from home?

Yes!

That's our ChiefsPlanet guru! He's holding out for the next open GM position.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 06:57 PM
I mean honestly, Brandon Carr is a very capable starting CB in this league, he's not getting beat because he sucks, he's getting beat because we can't get to the QB.

nychief
04-26-2010, 06:57 PM
posted simultaneously

wow. you guys are like soul mates.

DeezNutz
04-26-2010, 06:58 PM
Has there really been an on-going argument about the Chiefs' relative success against the run vs. their pass defense?

Really?

The same team that tried to put Harrison into the Hall? And were the Ravens used as an example of "success"? The same team that put up approximately 500 yards of total offense, including approximately 200 on the ground?

Talk about arguing to argue.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 06:58 PM
is there a ravensplanet.com where these losers could go???

If mecca was a Ravens fan I'm sure he'd be happy every year when they continue to lose in the playoffs...if they even make it that far.

STFU

Mecca is so qualified to have an opinion...I sure want to listen to 80,000 posts of superior knowledge from a what, 29 year old dude that has never lived away from home?

Yes!

That's our ChiefsPlanet guru! He's holding out for the next open GM position.

:facepalm:

You are seriously 13 years old, you say something stupid, you get called on it and you proceed to whine and call people names.

the Talking Can
04-26-2010, 07:00 PM
wow. you guys are like soul mates.


I AM NOT A GM

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 07:00 PM
no you would have been fine until you used the "I'm a fraction shy"...

who does that?

what's the matter little guy!?!? Not good enough to play so now you have to latch on to your reputation on a football message board???

See me...

I don't give a shit that everyone hates me. I'm ok with it...I was good at everything I ever did and making friends comes easy to me...I don't need respect on ChiefsPlanet.com to feel like I'm worth a shit...

ROFL

I knew I couldn't win regardless of what I said.

Had I said I was 5-11, you would have came back with, "I bet you're not even 5-10 1/2."

It never ends with you.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 07:01 PM
Has there really been an on-going argument about the Chiefs' relative success against the run vs. their pass defense?

Really?

The same team that tried to put Harrison into the Hall? And were the Ravens used as an example of "success"? The same team that put up approximately 500 yards of total offense, including approximately 200 on the ground?

Talk about arguing to argue.

I'm going to watch 24...

but the Ravens were my point...

They beat us with Flacco...

The running game put up a lot of yards...

But did anyone, for one second, who watched that game...think we lost for any other reason than the fact we couldn't stop Joe Flacco?

Really?

Really?

DeezNutz
04-26-2010, 07:02 PM
I'm going to watch 24...

but the Ravens were my point...

They beat us with Flacco...

The running game put up a lot of yards...

But did anyone, for one second, who watched that game...think we lost for any other reason than the fact we couldn't stop Joe Flacco?

Really?

Really?

Honestly, I thought we were abused in pretty much every facet of the game. It was kind of like getting beat the **** down by a group of people who are kicking and punching you.

And now we're supposed to discern with was worse, the kicks or the punches?

300 yards passing or 200 yards rushing? **** man...that's a knock out either way you want to look at it.

KCrockaholic
04-26-2010, 07:03 PM
He is basing the entire 2009 season off the fucking Ravens game....This level of stupidity is why god is mad at us and can't wait for 2012 to get here :)

Mecca
04-26-2010, 07:03 PM
I'm pretty sure we lost because we couldn't stop anything.

petegz28
04-26-2010, 07:04 PM
I'm going to watch 24...

but the Ravens were my point...

They beat us with Flacco...

The running game put up a lot of yards...

But did anyone, for one second, who watched that game...think we lost for any other reason than the fact we couldn't stop Joe Flacco?

Really?

Really?

We lost the Ravens game for two reasons.

1. Croyle overthrew guys that would have been 4 easy TD's
2. We couldn't defend the pass

DeezNutz
04-26-2010, 07:06 PM
We lost the Ravens game for two reasons.

1. Croyle overthrew guys that would have been 4 easy TD's
2. We couldn't defend the pass

#1 was Croyle?

LMAO. We gave up 500 yards of offense. We damn near had a kick return AND an INT return for a TD and STILL lost by 14, I believe (not checking stats right now).

That game was an absolute ****ing disaster. And I was called a "bad fan" for stating such at the time.

"We competed!" That was the line. That's how we described "success."

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 07:08 PM
Honestly, I thought we were abused in pretty much every facet of the game. It was kind of like getting beat the **** down by a group of people who are kicking and punching you.

And now we're supposed to discern with was worse, the kicks or the punches?

300 yards passing or 200 yards rushing? **** man...that's a knock out either way you want to look at it.

Allowing 300 yards passing is somewhat common.

Allowing 200 yards rushing is pretty uncommon.

Though we skew the numbers by allowing it to happen 3 times...

LMAO

petegz28
04-26-2010, 07:08 PM
#1 was Croyle?

LMAO. We gave up 500 yards of offense. We damn near had a kick return AND an INT return for a TD and STILL lost by 14, I believe (not checking stats right now).

That game was an absolute ****ing disaster. And I was called a "bad fan" for stating such at the time.

"We competed!" That was the line. That's how we described "success."

How many yards did Flaco have?

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 07:08 PM
We lost the Ravens game for two reasons.

1. Croyle overthrew guys that would have been 4 easy TD's
2. We couldn't defend the pass

Wow.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 07:09 PM
I remember that, if you pointed out that the Chiefs lost by 14 in a game in which they blocked a punt for a TD and returned an INT to the 1, you were called a bad fan, meanwhile they gave up 500 yards of total offense, couldn't get off the field and got their shit kicked in, in every way imaginable.

chiefzilla1501
04-26-2010, 07:09 PM
We lost the Ravens game for two reasons.

1. Croyle overthrew guys that would have been 4 easy TD's
2. We couldn't defend the pass

Ray Rice ran for 108 yards on 19 carries.

The Ravens didn't run the ball because they were doing so well in the air. But that doesn't change the fact that if they did run the ball, we would have been gashed too.

DeezNutz
04-26-2010, 07:12 PM
Ray Rice ran for 108 yards on 19 carries.

The Ravens didn't run the ball because they were doing so well in the air. But that doesn't change the fact that if they did run the ball, we would have been gashed too.

Would have been?

Dude was going at 5.7 yards a pop.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 07:13 PM
Ray Rice ran for 108 yards on 19 carries.

The Ravens didn't run the ball because they were doing so well in the air. But that doesn't change the fact that if they did run the ball, we would have been gashed too.

Didn't run the ball?

They had 41 carries for 198 yards. A 4.83 per carry average. That's gashed.

They threw the ball 43 times, BTW.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2010, 07:14 PM
I remember that, if you pointed out that the Chiefs lost by 14 in a game in which they blocked a punt for a TD and returned an INT to the 1, you were called a bad fan, meanwhile they gave up 500 yards of total offense, couldn't get off the field and got their shit kicked in, in every way imaginable.

LMAO The Chiefs should do like the Royals Baseball commercials.

KC Chiefs - Football!

Watch us get our shit pushed in!

Mecca
04-26-2010, 07:14 PM
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

Look at the run defense rankings from last year....that also puts to bed that notion that 3-4 teams don't defend the run..

4 of the top 5 are 3-4 teams.

petegz28
04-26-2010, 07:15 PM
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

Look at the run defense rankings from last year....that also puts to bed that notion that 3-4 teams don't defend the run..

4 of the top 5 are 3-4 teams.

You have a problem with the word "traditonally" or what?

DeezNutz
04-26-2010, 07:15 PM
Didn't run the ball?

They had 41 carries for 198 yards. A 4.83 per carry average. That's gashed.

They threw the ball 43 times, BTW.

Nope.

34 for 286 yards is gashed, KC style. Anything less is "progress."

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 07:16 PM
Would have been?

Dude was going at 5.7 yards a pop.

and he only ran 19 times...

why?

BECAUSE THEY KNEW THEY COULD BEAT US THROUGH THE AIR...EASILY...

THEY ARE A RUNNING TEAM THAT LET FLACCO GO WILD...EVEN THE ANNOUNCERS WERE LIKE...'WTF?'

Their gameplan was to beat us with the pass. Period.

They attacked our #1 weakness...just like Garrard...just like Eli Manning...other running teams that threw the ball at will...

and when we faced passing teams?

Holy shit.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 07:16 PM
Flacco 300+ yards (96 rating)

Oakland beat us averaging 2.7 YPC in week 2

Kolb 300 + yards (120 rating)

E. Manning 292 yards (104 rating)

Romo 350 yards (113 rating)

Rivers 270 yards (123 rating)

Garrard 270 yards (111 rating)

Rivers 300+ yards (136 rating)

Orton 180 yards (92 rating) 245 rush yards allowed

Edwards (66 rating) 200 rush yards allowed

Quinn (28 rating) 350 rush yards allowed

Palmer (92 rating) Benson 4.6 YPC

...



...

chiefzilla1501
04-26-2010, 07:17 PM
Didn't run the ball?

They had 41 carries for 198 yards. A 4.83 per carry average. That's gashed.

They threw the ball 43 times, BTW.

Sorry, let me correct that. They were starting to put a lot more points on the board when they opened up the passing game.

But that doesn't change the fact that the run defense looked horrendous most of the game.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 07:17 PM
and he only ran 19 times...

why?

BECAUSE THEY KNEW THEY COULD BEAT US THROUGH THE AIR...EASILY...

THEY ARE A RUNNING TEAM THAT LET FLACCO GO WILD...EVEN THE ANNOUNCERS WERE LIKE...'WTF?'

Their gameplan was to beat us with the pass. Period.

They attacked our #1 weakness...just like Garrard...just like Eli Manning...other running teams that threw the ball at will...

and when we faced passing teams?

Holy shit.

You should have stuck to watching 24.

They ran the ball 41 times and threw it 43 times.

Make sure to respond, we're all anxiously awaiting your next excuse.

DeezNutz
04-26-2010, 07:17 PM
and he only ran 19 times...

why?

BECAUSE THEY KNEW THEY COULD BEAT US THROUGH THE AIR...EASILY...

THEY ARE A RUNNING TEAM THAT LET FLACCO GO WILD...EVEN THE ANNOUNCERS WERE LIKE...'WTF?'

Their gameplan was to beat us with the pass. Period.

They attacked our #1 weakness...just like Garrard...just like Eli Manning...other running teams that threw the ball at will...

and when we faced passing teams?

Holy shit.

I'm sorry, but we were statistically worse against the run.

And this argument really ends with only two words: Jerome Harrison. Seriously, you can talk all day about QBs, passing yards, etc.

Jerome Harrison.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 07:17 PM
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

Compare those defensive rushing and passing stats....one jumps out as far worse than the other.

Mecca
04-26-2010, 07:18 PM
Hey if you want an argument to how bad the defense is...the Ravens ran 84 plays do you realize how ridiculous that is?

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 07:20 PM
I'm sorry, but we were statistically worse against the pass.

And this argument really ends with only two words: Jerome Harrison. Seriously, you can talk all day about QBs, passing yards, etc.

Jerome Harrison.

Again, a 300 yard passer isn't uncommon in the NFL.

Having a team run for 200 yards is.

There's no comparison here. But let him go, I'm enjoying watching him squirm.

DeezNutz
04-26-2010, 07:20 PM
Completely fucked up my previous post. I corrected.

DeezNutz
04-26-2010, 07:21 PM
Again, a 300 yard passer isn't uncommon in the NFL.

Having a team run for 200 yards is.

There's no comparison here. But let him go, I'm enjoying watching him squirm.

I fucked up my post. "Pass" instead of "run." Please correct for me, if you wouldn't mind.

chiefzilla1501
04-26-2010, 07:21 PM
We aren't going to get it all overnight. Not with all the holes this team has.

Well, there I agree with you.

But it doesn't change the fact that the team left one significant hole. And that's the ability to stop the run, particularly on the interior.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 07:27 PM
1st and 10 at BAL 20 J.Flacco scrambles right end ran ob at BLT 24 for 4 yards (M.Vrabel).
2nd and 6 at BAL 24 J.Flacco pass deep right to D.Mason to BLT 43 for 19 yards (J.Page).
1st and 10 at BAL 43 (No Huddle) J.Flacco pass deep left to K.Washington to KC 35 for 22 yards (B.Carr).
1st and 10 at KC 35 (No Huddle) J.Flacco pass incomplete deep middle to D.Mason. Derrick Mason bobbling pass as he runs out of back of end zone.
Timeout #1 by BLT at 11:43.
2nd and 10 at KC 35 J.Flacco pass short right to M.Clayton to KC 24 for 11 yards (M.Leggett).
1st and 10 at KC 24 (No Huddle) J.Flacco pass incomplete short left to D.Mason (B.Carr).
2nd and 10 at KC 24 (No Huddle) R.Rice up the middle to KC 26 for -2 yards (D.Williams).
3rd and 12 at KC 26 (Shotgun) J.Flacco pass incomplete short right to R.Rice.
4th and 12 at KC 26 (Field Goal formation) S.Hauschka 44 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-M.Katula, Holder-S.Koch. 0 3

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 07:27 PM
I'm sorry, but we were statistically worse against the run.

And this argument really ends with only two words: Jerome Harrison. Seriously, you can talk all day about QBs, passing yards, etc.

Jerome Harrison.

While he did the most damage, let's make sure everyone gets credit.

Ray Rice - 108, team - 195

Jacobs/Bradshaw - 156

Choice/Barber - 150

LT/Sproles - 135

MJD/Jennings - 130

Bush/Fargas - 160

Buckhalter/Moreno - 245

Jackson/Lynch - 200

Benson - 133

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 07:27 PM
1st and 10 at BAL 30 J.Flacco pass short left to L.McClain to BLT 45 for 15 yards (D.Williams). PENALTY on BLT-D.Mason, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at BLT 40.
J.Flacco pass short right to D.Mason to BLT 43 for 13 yards (M.Leggett).
1st and 10 at BAL 43 (No Huddle) R.Rice right guard to BLT 47 for 4 yards (W.Gilberry, C.Mays).
2nd and 6 at BAL 47 (No Huddle) R.Rice up the middle to KC 49 for 4 yards (T.Tyler, M.Brown).
3rd and 2 at KC 49 (No Huddle) J.Flacco pass short middle to K.Washington to KC 37 for 12 yards (M.Brown).
1st and 10 at KC 37 (No Huddle) R.Rice right end to KC 31 for 6 yards (M.Brown).
2nd and 4 at KC 31 (No Huddle) J.Flacco scrambles right end pushed ob at KC 25 for 6 yards (M.Leggett).
1st and 10 at KC 25 (No Huddle) J.Flacco pass short left to L.McClain to KC 23 for 2 yards (D.Williams).
2nd and 8 at KC 23 (Shotgun) J.Flacco pass incomplete short middle to W.McGahee.
3rd and 8 at KC 23 (Shotgun) J.Flacco pass short middle to T.Heap to KC 9 for 14 yards (C.Mays).
1st and 9 at KC 9 R.Rice right guard to KC 4 for 5 yards (T.Tyler, D.Williams).
2nd and 4 at KC 4 (No Huddle) R.Rice right guard to KC 3 for 1 yard (T.Tyler).
3rd and 3 at KC 3 J.Flacco pass short left to W.McGahee for 3 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Joe Flacco scrambles for time and tosses short pass to Willis McGahee. 0 10

CHENZ A!
04-26-2010, 07:28 PM
I think our pass D is bad mainly because of the lack of a pass rush. I'm cool with flowers and Carr. The safeties still sucked but won't now hopefully. I'm not mad at the Arenas pick at all, just would've been COOL to get Mays. Having both Mays and Berry come in as rookies and just wreck shit would've been dope.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 07:29 PM
go look at the 1st half drive chart in that game...

all they were doing was PASSING the ball...

Marcellus
04-26-2010, 07:29 PM
While he did the most damage, let's make sure everyone gets credit.

Ray Rice - 108, team - 195

Jacobs/Bradshaw - 156

Choice/Barber - 150

LT/Sproles - 135

MJD/Jennings - 130

Bush/Fargas - 160

Buckhalter/Moreno - 245

Jackson/Lynch - 200

Benson - 133

In all fairness I wonder how many yards of that Mike Brown was responsible for. I know the LB's sucked too but damn he was a bad angle tackle missing mofo.

Saccopoo
04-26-2010, 07:29 PM
I'm pretty sure that the defense was bad in both the run and pass.

DeezNutz
04-26-2010, 07:30 PM
In all fairness I wonder how many yards of that Mike Brown was responsible for. I know the LB's sucked too but damn he was a bad angle tackle missing mofo.

That worthless sumbitch was easily the most impressive arsonist on the team.

BigChiefFan
04-26-2010, 07:30 PM
You all are splitting hairs. The defense needs help in both phases.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 07:35 PM
You all are splitting hairs. The defense needs help in both phases.

Dude, the hairs were destroyed early in this thread. There's nothing to split.

our rush defense got a bad wrap because we were consistently losing by 2+ scores in the 4th quarter and teams like the Giants...who gashed us with the pass all game long...used their final possessions to pad their rushing stats

So Hootie claims that the bad run defense numbers are a product of us getting passed on in the first half, and the opposition "padding" their run totals in the 2nd half of games.

I have another set of stats he'll ignore.

I've only done the first 9 games, I'll try to get to the rest later.

In the first 9 games, we gave up 1269 rushing yards.

668 of which, or 52% came in the first half of games.

And the Giants, which he claims "gashed us with the pass all game long...used their final possessions to pad their rushing stats" happened to rack up 108 of their 156 rushing yards in the first half of the game.

The list of excuses should be exceptionally comical this time around folks.

petegz28
04-26-2010, 07:35 PM
In all fairness I wonder how many yards of that Mike Brown was responsible for. I know the LB's sucked too but damn he was a bad angle tackle missing mofo.

Dude cost us the Dallas game, did he not?

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 07:36 PM
Dude cost us the Dallas game, did he not?

Someone needs a memory pill.

We're talking about run defense here, not missing a tackle and allowing multiple 60 yard TD receptions.

petegz28
04-26-2010, 07:38 PM
Someone needs a memory pill.

We're talking about run defense here, not missing a tackle and allowing multiple 60 yard TD receptions.

WTF is the difference???

DeezNutz
04-26-2010, 07:39 PM
WTF is the difference???

Run defense is where you're trying to tackle the guy rushing the football. Pass defense is where you're trying to defend the pass.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2010, 07:40 PM
Run defense is where you're trying to tackle the guy rushing the football. Pass defense is where you're trying to defend the pass.

LMAO He's not Reerun

ChiefsCountry
04-26-2010, 07:43 PM
Dude cost us the Dallas game, did he not?

And the Oakland game.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 07:43 PM
WTF is the difference???

See, the goal in RUN defense is that you attempt to stop the player who was handed or snapped the ball and is running.

The goal is PASS defense is to keep the opposition from completing forward passes, or at the least, limiting the yardage on said passes.

But please, blame Mike Brown for our shitty run defense.

Jesus fuck.

I swear, Hootie is like David Koresh. There are some dumb motherfuckers that would follow him anywhere, and agree with anything he says.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 07:44 PM
Run defense is where you're trying to tackle the guy rushing the football. Pass defense is where you're trying to defend the pass.

See, the goal in RUN defense is that you attempt to stop the player who was handed or snapped the ball and is running.

The goal is PASS defense is to keep the opposition from completing forward passes, or at the least, limiting the yardage on said passes.

But please, blame Mike Brown for our shitty run defense.

Jesus fuck.

I swear, Hootie is like David Koresh. There are some dumb motherfuckers that would follow him anywhere, and agree with anything he says.

Ah, fuck you Deez. I had to take a phone call.

LMAO

warpaint*
04-26-2010, 07:46 PM
Watching the games my eyeballs told me the front 7 was the biggest culprit. It was slow, unathletic, failed to pressure the qb, and was consistently gashed in the running game. But in case my eye balls were lying to me I looked a few things up,

At 4.7 yards per carry we were tied for 2nd to last in the NFL in terms of rush defense. We were also second to last in terms of sacks. We were 22nd in the league in terms of total pass defense and 26th in passing yards per. All of these results are obviously bad, the rush defense being worse than the pass defense, which to be fair you'd expect to some extent on a last place team with opponents running the ball late to finish games ahead. The sacks are most damning to the front 7 if you really want to compare it with the back 4 and assign blame one way or the other. So, the front 7 is negatively affecting the rush defense and the pass defense. The best secondary in football is going to break down if you can't get any pressure on the QB. And that's not even speaking with regard to pass defense responsibilities in terms of the front 7.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=null&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-n=1&season=2009&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&d-447263-p=1

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=null&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=SACKS&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=DEFENSIVE_SACKS&d-447263-n=1&season=2009&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&d-447263-p=1

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=null&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-o=1&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_AVERAGE_YARDS&d-447263-n=1&season=2009&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&d-447263-p=1

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 07:47 PM
Watching the games my eyeballs told me the front 7 was the biggest culprit. It was slow, unathletic, failed to pressure the qb, and was consistently gashed in the running game. But in case my eye balls were lying to me I looked a few things up,

At 4.7 yards per carry we were tied for 2nd to last in the NFL in terms of rush defense. We were also second to last in terms of sacks. We were 22nd in the league in terms of total pass defense and 26th in passing yards per. All of these results are obviously bad, the rush defense being worse than the pass defense, which to be fair you'd expect to some extent on a last place team with opponents running the ball late to finish games ahead. The sacks are most damning to the front 7 if you really want to compare it with the back 4 and assign blame one way or the other. So, the front 7 is negatively affecting the rush defense and the pass defense. The best secondary in football is going to break down if you can't get any pressure on the QB. And that's not even speaking with regard to pass defense responsibilities in terms of the front 7.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=null&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-n=1&season=2009&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&d-447263-p=1

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=null&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=SACKS&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=DEFENSIVE_SACKS&d-447263-n=1&season=2009&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&d-447263-p=1

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=null&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-o=1&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_AVERAGE_YARDS&d-447263-n=1&season=2009&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&d-447263-p=1

That myth in bold was debunked 30 some-odd posts into the thread.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2010, 07:49 PM
yeah...he debunked it with referencing the Giants game...where our pass defense made Eli look like Peyton.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2010, 07:50 PM
yeah...he debunked it with referencing the Giants game...where our pass defense made Eli look like Peyton.

Eli > Peyton

petegz28
04-26-2010, 07:53 PM
Eli > Peyton

That was a joke, right?

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 07:54 PM
yeah...he debunked it with referencing the Giants game...where our pass defense made Eli look like Peyton.

Actually, I used every game. And the numbers don't lie.

I specifically mentioned the Giants due to your claim that:

teams like the Giants...who gashed us with the pass all game long...used their final possessions to pad their rushing stats

And the Giants, which he claims "gashed us with the pass all game long...used their final possessions to pad their rushing stats" happened to rack up 108 of their 156 rushing yards in the first half of the game.

Reading is fundamental.

boogblaster
04-26-2010, 08:00 PM
If fact our D isn't worth a shit at anything ...

Hog Farmer
04-26-2010, 08:05 PM
I think we should do away with our defense because it will never survive and just have two offenses.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2010, 08:11 PM
Eli > Peyton

Oh well. I tried to get this pic queued up. No real bites.

http://img.moronail.net/img/3/7/1037.jpg

warpaint*
04-26-2010, 08:26 PM
That myth in bold was debunked 30 some-odd posts into the thread.

I didn't read the entire thread, nor am I going to - the premise is flawed imo and I already outlined why.

In general though the statement you bolded holds true. Bad teams are usually trailing in the 3rd and 4th quarters of games and are usually getting run on more in those situations. I wasn't trying to use it to defend the original premise of the thread and I thought my post was pretty clear in that I am in agreeance w/ you so I'm not sure why we would need to debate that particular point one way or the other.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2010, 08:41 PM
I didn't read the entire thread, nor am I going to - the premise is flawed imo and I already outlined why.

In general though the statement you bolded holds true. Bad teams are usually trailing in the 3rd and 4th quarters of games and are usually getting run on more in those situations. I wasn't trying to use it to defend the original premise of the thread and I thought my post was pretty clear in that I am in agreeance w/ you so I'm not sure why we would need to debate that particular point one way or the other.

Because your post wasn't clear.

All of these results are obviously bad, the rush defense being worse than the pass defense, which to be fair you'd expect to some extent on a last place team with opponents running the ball late to finish games ahead.

Reads like you are specifically talking about KC to me, not making a generalization.

No harm, no foul.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2010, 10:12 PM
dude...you have little man's syndrome if I've ever seen it...

everything is about owning this, or owning that...or starting a poll to see if people need me on this site...or if they don't need me...

dude...

get a grip

get some real life friends or something...

See...unlike you and Mecca and Hamas Jenkins...I don't fucking care if you think you "owned" me on this website...

I will continue to form my own opinions about the one pro franchise I truly care about...and I could give two shits whether or not you and Hamas Jenkins agree with me.

I loved our draft...I could careless we didn't take Kindle or Cody...I feel good about being a Chiefs fan right now...

so you three have fun jerking each other off and crying about how it's not fair Clark just Scott over you three...a school teacher/a man suffering from little guy syndrome/and a 30 year old fatass who has never had a job and lives with his parents...

excuse me for not envying any of you

Who cares about whom?

You literally cannot go five posts without mentioning me. It doesn't seem as though any of us are the problem, but rather the person that feels the need to constantly bait others, or mention them, because he's obsessed with talking about them.

I'm starting to wonder if I'm going to log in some day and find the electronic equivalent of a rabbit boiling on my stove.

You are one sick fuck.

Claynus
04-26-2010, 10:15 PM
So, will this ever end?

When Pioli fails, will the drafturbators be crowned king and Hootie cast down into the gorge of eternal peril?

Or, when Pioli wins the Lombardi, will Hootie be raised on high as the prophet who spoke the doom o the horsemen years in advance?

Or do we just go through this again with the next GM?