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ChiefRon
04-27-2010, 05:44 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/13308977/gm-pioli-explains-organizational-thinking-on-big-draft?tag=coverlist_active;coverlist_footer

GM Pioli explains organizational thinking on big draft
April 27, 2010
By Clark Judge
CBSSports.com Senior Writer
Tell Clark your opinion!


The Kansas City Chiefs didn't just pass the test at this year's NFL draft. They aced it.

When Rick Gosselin of the Dallas Morning News graded last weekend's draft he handed out one A+, and it was to the Chiefs. Gosselin admired every move the team made, and, frankly, so do I. They found value in every round and accomplished their pre-draft goals of landing solid players, improving team speed and identifying future leaders.

Eric Berry? Captain. Dexter McCluster? Co-captain. Javier Arenas? Captain. Six of their seven draft picks were captains of their teams, with only Troy's Cameron Sheffield keeping the Chiefs from completing the sweep. So what? So they found responsible, productive players who doubled as team leaders, which means they just helped themselves on and off the field.

The bottom line is that Kansas City general manager Scott Pioli did in this draft what I thought he failed to do in 2009, which is to nail top-rated players with every choice. I'm not sure what happened, so I decided to ask Pioli. Here are his responses:

FIRST ROUND

Eric Berry, S, Tennessee (5)

Early forecasts had the Chiefs taking Berry or the best available left tackle, with the tackle the favorite. I thought if Oklahoma State's Russell Okung slipped to them, which he did, the Chiefs would jump on the guy. But they went for Berry instead. That tells you that neither Okung nor Trent Williams was much of a consideration here, or that Berry was someone they targeted all along. It turns out that Berry was their man.

Pioli: "We kind of predicted and had a feeling what 1, 2 and 3 were going to be but weren't sure what was going to happen at four. But once 1, 2 and 3 went, we were standing there knowing we were going to get one of our top-rated players. Eric was a guy we were focused on, though there was another player up there we liked as well. But when he had the opportunity, we took Eric. We think he's a dynamic player at a position where, as a staff, we felt that during different times of the year having more speed and tackling at that position would've helped our defense. The coaches had done a study about the number of big plays we had given up and how that position was responsible for it. Along with adding what think is a really good football player, we think his makeup is off the charts. He has leadership, confidence and humility. Talk to anyone who's been around this guy at any level of his life, and they'll tell you that he is, without a doubt, a special person. I mean, this is a guy who goes down to the equipment room and helps guys clean helmets before the game. There is something different about this kid. When Eric was available, he was the guy we wanted."

SECOND ROUND

Dexter McCluster, WR/RB, Mississippi (36)

Javier Arenas, CB, Alabama, (50)

One of the second-round upsets was not having offensive coordinator and former Notre Dame coach Charlie Weis talk the Chiefs into drafting quarterback Jimmy Clausen or wide receiver Golden Tate. I never figured Clausen to the Chiefs, not with the investment the club made in Matt Cassel, but Tate seemed like a natural. Ultimately, the Chiefs chose neither, and now I see why. McCluster is this year's Percy Harvin, a playmaker you can line up inside or out and someone who offers speed, versatility and return ability. Arenas is one of the best blitzing cornerbacks I've seen in years and is perfectly suited as a nickel back -- which always helps when you play in a division with Philip Rivers. Plus, he's another guy who can return punts and kicks, which made him attractive to a team that ranked no higher than 25th in either category.

Pioli: "Let's start with McCluster. With the group of coaches we have here we talked about this at length, and we love the guy's dynamic playmaking ability -- and that's everyone. Coaches. Scouts. Myself. All of us. First of all, he was one of our top-rated wide receivers, and one of our top-rated running backs. So, with that, we felt here's a guy who has dynamic playmaking ability, improves our team speed, improves our speed on offense and also gives our coaching staff flexibility to do a number of things. I think coaches will be able to put together a number of different packages where sometimes he'll be a wide receiver, and sometimes he'll be a running back. He's going to be able to do a lot of different things, so we took him. At that point, there were really three players at 36 we were talking about -- and we had to make the decision which one had the best chance of getting to 50. So we took Dexter because we thought he had the least likelihood of making it to 50. Afterward I had three calls from different people I know and trust who said he wouldn't have made it to 50. There was another guy we were considering at 36, but the other two were ahead of him. And what ended up happening was that we tried trading up earlier than 50, weren't able to get it done and the other player that we wanted went off the board. And then the next guy was Javier (Arenas), so when it came to 50 Javier was our guy.

"Our return situation on punts and kicks were abysmal last year. I think we went through five kick returners and had five punt returners. Anyway, one of our problems last year was where our offense started on the field. Too many times we had 85 yards to go. The other thing was that this was a guy who ended up being No. 2 in NCAA history in a number of different categories in punt and kick returns. So he's one of the best returners to come out in a while. Just as important to us, Javier is a guy who lines up at what we call the 'star position,' which is someone who lines up on the slot receiver in sub packages. He's done that, and he has the skill set and intelligence to do it. And let me tell you, if you can do that for [Alabama coach] Nick Saban you can do it for anybody. He was very productive for Nick as that 'slot corner,' and he was a very productive blitzer. You look at his numbers, his tackles for losses and his sacks and they're off the chart -- and that's for a corner. That's because of the position he lined up at because he was so close to the line of scrimmage. This past year he had 12 tackles for losses and five sacks, and, remember, that's for a corner. So which of them returns kicks? That's the beautiful part. Either can. We have depth at that position now."

THIRD ROUND

Jon Asamoah, G, Illinois (68)

Tony Moeaki, TE, Iowa (93)

Pioli: "We were very surprised to find Jon Asamoah still there when we picked in the third round. At that point, he was clearly our top-rated offensive lineman. This offseason we signed Ryan Lilja and Casey Wiegmann, but there's nothing wrong with getting a good young guy who doesn't need to be forced on the field immediately. Plus, he gives us depth at two positions. He started three years at guard but he practiced at center. He was (Illinois') emergency center, so if they were going to have a problem at center he was their next guy. He's strong. He's tough. He's a leader. He's humble. He's really, really smart. And he has position flexibility. We spent a lot of time with the guy, and this is one of those things where we were just happy he was there.

"With Moeaki, I know he's had some durability issues, but whenever he's been healthy he's been dynamic. He's different but somewhat similar to (tight end) Dave Thomas, whom we drafted from the University of Texas when I was at New England. Go back to Iowa's bowl game against Georgia Tech, and (Moeaki) lined up the whole day against Derrick Morgan, and wore him out. As I said, when he's healthy he's a darned good player. He's another guy who's really smart, who can line up at the 'Y' position on the line of scrimmage because of his size but whom you can also use as a 'move' guy. Basically, he's smart enough to do multiple things."

FIFTH ROUND

Kendrick Lewis, S, Mississippi (136)

Cameron Sheffield, DE, Troy (142)

Pioli: "Kendrick Lewis was a guy who was thought pretty highly of up until his workout ... and then he ran a slow time in the 40. At the combine he ran a 4.77, and it killed him. He dropped like a stone. At the Mississippi pro day he ran a 4.69, which was a little bit better but not by much. We had another time on record, a legit time, that was better than the 4.69, but I'm not a big stop watch guy. I've seen how fast this guy plays, and he's a fast football player. Plus, he's another guy who is a leader. He and McCluster were co-captains at Ole Miss, and makeup-wise he's the total package -- someone who is fearless as a hitter. I watched him against Auburn running back Ben Tate, and watching the hits and the tackles and plays he made ... well, it was pretty impressive. I think he's going to be a good safety. Everyone liked Kendrick Lewis until his 40 at the combine, then, all of a sudden, he disappeared and everybody wrote him off. I'm a firm believer in tape, not just numbers, and while I didn't completely ignore (the times) -- because when you saw the speed it affected him on our board -- you go back and do more work on the guy. And what I discovered was at the combine he had a flareup of knee tendinitis. There were a couple of other guys we were talking about at this position, but he was the guy we were going to draft.

"Sheffield started at Troy as a defensive end, but we'd like to convert him to outside linebacker. He started 37 games, is a good pass rusher, is strong, can hold the point and is another guy who plays faster than what he timed. We need to get developmental players at outside linebacker, and he's a solid, solid football player, with 12.5 sacks and 22.5 tackles for losses over the last two years. We think he can rush the passer, and we also think he's another good character guy who is going to help us in the locker room and who is smart enough to make the transition from defensive end to outside linebacker. At this spot there were a couple of other considerations, but this is a spot where we said we felt a greater need at this position, so we were looking at him and one other player. And we went with him."

Chocolate Hog
04-27-2010, 05:48 PM
Will Sheffield ever be anything? Troy players usually produce in the NFL.

keg in kc
04-27-2010, 05:49 PM
I wonder who the third player at 36 was.

Either way, that's an interesting read.

Chocolate Hog
04-27-2010, 05:51 PM
I wonder who the third player at 36 was.

Either way, that's an interesting read.

Clausen.

Detoxing
04-27-2010, 05:53 PM
Good read. I wonder if that player that was suppose to fall to 50 was Clausen?

ChiefRon
04-27-2010, 05:56 PM
I wonder who the third player at 36 was.

Either way, that's an interesting read.

I bet it was either Misi, Gronkowski, Joseph, or Washington. Any of them captains?

CarlPeterson_fan
04-27-2010, 05:56 PM
Wonder who the player was they wanted in the second? Mays? Kindle?

ChiefRon
04-27-2010, 05:57 PM
Clausen.

I would like to think so, but something tells me Clausen wasn't in the discussion.

Fritz88
04-27-2010, 06:04 PM
There was another guy we were considering at 36, but the other two were ahead of him. And what ended up happening was that we tried trading up earlier than 50, weren't able to get it done and the other player that we wanted went off the board. And then the next guy was Javier (Arenas), so when it came to 50 Javier was our guy.

Clausen?

ChiefRon
04-27-2010, 06:12 PM
Wonder who the player was they wanted in the second? Mays? Kindle?

I doubt Kindle was even on their board.

And if it was Mays, I'm sure we could have still landed him; he only went 1 pick in front of us, unless the niners were THAT enamored with him...

Dicky McElephant
04-27-2010, 06:13 PM
I would have to guess it was:

Linval Joseph
Jimmy Clausen

siberian khatru
04-27-2010, 06:13 PM
Clausen.

"Goddammit, Charlie, ENOUGH! Shut the fuck up and sit the fuck down! I'm making the decisions here!"

keg in kc
04-27-2010, 06:16 PM
My wild guess would be Gronkowski. Although maybe it was one of the d-tackles.

Bet it wasn't Zane Beadles.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2010, 06:17 PM
Well, he said the player was taken between their picks, so:

Nate Allen
TJ Ward
Arrelious Benn
Koa Misi
Torrell Troup
Rob Gonkowski
Sergio Kindle
Lamar Houston
Zane Beadles
Linval Joseph
Daryl Washington
Jimmy Clausen
Taylor Mays

Out of that group, I can't see us looking to trade up for anyone other than Clausen and Misi.

Both were team captains.

DaWolf
04-27-2010, 06:19 PM
Yeah, could have been Clausen, but I have a feeling it was either a DT, LB or WR. It sounds like he was really looking for guys up there that would impact the team this year. He mentions they went with Sheffield on the last pick because that was a position of need, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was LB they were looking at...

the Talking Can
04-27-2010, 06:19 PM
Afterward I had three calls from different people I know and trust who said he wouldn't have made it to 50. There was another guy we were considering at 36, but the other two were ahead of him. And what ended up happening was that we tried trading up earlier than 50, weren't able to get it done and the other player that we wanted went off the board.


COOL....a great mystery!


Who was that mysterious man???

Clausen? (nah)
Linval?
???

go to it chiefsplanet sleuths

DaWolf
04-27-2010, 06:20 PM
Well, he said the player was taken between their picks, so:

Nate Allen
TJ Ward
Arrelious Benn
Koa Misi
Torrell Troup
Rob Gonkowski
Sergio Kindle
Lamar Houston
Zane Beadles
Linval Joseph
Daryl Washington
Jimmy Clausen
Taylor Mays

Out of that group, I can't see us looking to trade up for anyone other than Clausen and Misi.

Both were team captains.

Any of those guys play in the SEC and were captains? :)

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2010, 06:20 PM
The coaches had done a study about the number of big plays we had given up and how that position was responsible for it.

This kind of talk scores some big, big points with me.

He'd score even more if he'd be that candid and critical of his QB.

keg in kc
04-27-2010, 06:20 PM
It would be somewhat ironic if it was Clausen, they were playing the "see how far he drops game", finally decided to pull the trigger but were unable to trade ahead of Carolina to take him.

chiefforlife
04-27-2010, 06:21 PM
[+]
5 (37) Eagles (From Redskins) Allen, Nathaniel FS 6'0" 207 South Florida 7.7 -- Video
Pick Analysis: null
[+]
6 (38) Browns Ward, T.J. FS 5'10" 211 Oregon 6.1 -- Video
Pick Analysis: null
[+]
7 (39) Buccaneers (From Raiders) Benn, Arrelious WR 6'1" 219 Illinois 7.7 -- Video
Pick Analysis: null
[+]
8 (40) Dolphins (From Seahawks through Chargers) Misi, Koa DE 6'3" 251 Utah 7.6 -- Video
Pick Analysis: null
[+]
9 (41) Bills Troup, Torell DT 6'3" 314 Central Florida 5.3 -- Video
Pick Analysis: null
[+]
10 (42) Patriots (From Bears through Buccaneers and Raiders) Gronkowski, Rob TE 6'6" 264 Arizona 8.2 -- Video
Pick Analysis: null
[+]
11 (43) Ravens (From Dolphins through Broncos) Kindle, Sergio DE 6'3" 250 Texas 8.3 19 Video
Pick Analysis: null
[+]
12 (44) Raiders (From Jaguars through Patriots ) Houston, Lamarr DT 6'3" 305 Texas 7.8 -- Video
Pick Analysis: null
[+]
13 (45) Broncos Beadles, Zane OT 6'4" 310 Utah 7.0 -- Video
Pick Analysis: null
[+]
14 (46) Giants Joseph, Linval DT 6'4" 328 East Carolina 7.8 -- Video
Pick Analysis: null
[+]
15 (47) Cardinals (From Titans through Patriots) Washington, Daryl LB 6'2" 230 TCU 8.1 -- Video
Pick Analysis: null
[+]
16 (48) Panthers Clausen, Jimmy QB 6'3" 222 Notre Dame 8.6 7 Video
Pick Analysis: null
[+]
17 (49) 49ers Mays, Taylor FS 6'3" 230 Southern Cal 8.1 22 Video


A lot of good players went from 37-49. I am guessing a NT. Three of them went in this area.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2010, 06:21 PM
Any of those guys play in the SEC and were captains? :)

Read the 2nd to last line.

chiefscafan
04-27-2010, 06:21 PM
hmm till that list I thought it was spikes but it was probably claussen although if that were the case why would weiss tell carolina to choose him. HMMM makes you wonder who it was

ChiefRon
04-27-2010, 06:22 PM
They mentioned going after team speed - that leads me to believe Gronkowski or Washington.

DaWolf
04-27-2010, 06:22 PM
Read the 2nd to last line.

Ahh, missed it. Good call...

chiefscafan
04-27-2010, 06:23 PM
guys it was troupe remember crennel loved him

DaneMcCloud
04-27-2010, 06:24 PM
Well, he said the player was taken between their picks, so:

Nate Allen
TJ Ward
Arrelious Benn
Koa Misi
Torrell Troup
Rob Gonkowski
Sergio Kindle
Lamar Houston
Zane Beadles
Linval Joseph
Daryl Washington
Jimmy Clausen
Taylor Mays

Out of that group, I can't see us looking to trade up for anyone other than Clausen and Misi.

Both were team captains.

Peter King reported that Clausen was never a serious consideration for the Chiefs.

Considering that he went to Miami (ahem), I'd bet there's a 99.9% chance it was Misi.

chiefforlife
04-27-2010, 06:24 PM
After what he said about Safeties, it could have been Mays? Two stud safeties would have been awesome.

raypec85
04-27-2010, 06:24 PM
Well, he said the player was taken between their picks, so:

Nate Allen
TJ Ward
Arrelious Benn
Koa Misi
Torrell Troup
Rob Gonkowski
Sergio Kindle
Lamar Houston
Zane Beadles
Linval Joseph
Daryl Washington
Jimmy Clausen
Taylor Mays

Out of that group, I can't see us looking to trade up for anyone other than Clausen and Misi.

Both were team captains.

My money's on Torrell Troup. Crennell was rumored to like him, and I really think Buffalo surprised a lot of teams when they took Troup where they did. This might also help explain why KC came out of the draft without a NT. It's pretty clear they did not like Cody or Cam Thomas.

BigRedChief
04-27-2010, 06:24 PM
I heard too many rumors about Clausen for it to have all been disinformation.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2010, 06:25 PM
Peter King reported that Clausen was never a serious consideration for the Chiefs.

Considering that he went to Miami (ahem), I'd bet there's a 99.9% chance it was Misi.

Peter King says a lot of stupid shit.

Anyway, I think it was Misi as well. But it's hard to rule out JC.

the Talking Can
04-27-2010, 06:25 PM
that's a great interview...i never thought we'd get any kind of detail or candor on the draft from this tight lipped crew


and i liked this, even though the problem was kind of obvious, nice to see them doing some homework and understanding that safety was a much greater need than LT:

We think he's a dynamic player at a position where, as a staff, we felt that during different times of the year having more speed and tackling at that position would've helped our defense. The coaches had done a study about the number of big plays we had given up and how that position was responsible for it.

BossChief
04-27-2010, 06:27 PM
"The coaches had done a study about the number of big plays we had given up and how that position was responsible for it."

Looks like Pioli just "Jimmy Clausen'd" Haleys "favorite player"

chiefscafan
04-27-2010, 06:27 PM
nope it was troupe crennel fell in love with him at the shrine game

keg in kc
04-27-2010, 06:28 PM
Peter King reported that Clausen was never a serious consideration for the Chiefs.

Considering that he went to Miami (ahem), I'd bet there's a 99.9% chance it was Misi.I chose Gronkowski for a similar reason.

DaWolf
04-27-2010, 06:28 PM
It would probably be more towards the start to middle of that pack, because those are the spots where it would be hard to trade up for. I have a hard time believing that they didn't have the ammo to move up three spots in round 2 to take Clausen when they were able to move back up in round three to take Moeaki. Trading back up to the middle of that pack would have required a lot more ammo than moving up three spots.

39 to 44 is where a ton of deals appear to have been made so they may have wanted to move up there but were outbid...

BossChief
04-27-2010, 06:30 PM
guys it was troupe remember crennel loved him

My money's on Torrell Troup. Crennell was rumored to like him, and I really think Buffalo surprised a lot of teams when they took Troup where they did. This might also help explain why KC came out of the draft without a NT. It's pretty clear they did not like Cody or Cam Thomas.

Out of all the good posters in this thread and the fucking nOObs nailed it...some of you are slipping BIG TIME

the Talking Can
04-27-2010, 06:31 PM
this will be a grassy knoll like piece of chiefs history.....pioli will tell us on his deathbed

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2010, 06:31 PM
It would probably be more towards the start to middle of that pack, because those are the spots where it would be hard to trade up for. I have a hard time believing that they didn't have the ammo to move up three spots in round 2 to take Clausen when they were able to move back up in round three to take Moeaki. Trading back up to the middle of that pack would have required a lot more ammo than moving up three spots.

39 to 44 is where a ton of deals appear to have been made so they may have wanted to move up there but were outbid...

They had the ammo, but remember, there has to be a team willing to move back.

If that team doesn't think their guy will be there, they aren't going to make a deal.

Sounds like the teams they were trying to deal with were set on who they were taking.

DaneMcCloud
04-27-2010, 06:32 PM
Out of all the good posters in this thread and the fucking nOObs nailed it...some of you are slipping BIG TIME

Koa Misi fits the profile perfectly (Team Captain), he would have filled a position of need AND he was chosen by Miami (Parcells - Pioli's FIL).

Misi was the guy.

raypec85
04-27-2010, 06:33 PM
"So which of them returns kicks? That's the beautiful part. Either can. We have depth at that position now."

I found this quote interesting. Personally I hope they use Arenas primarily for returns. Both McCluster's build and the position(s) he plays lend more toward injury so I'd rather not add to the risk by putting him on returns. Plus, Arenas has more experience on returns. They could use Arenas primarily and then throw McCluster in on an occasional return if they think he matches up well against a particular team.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2010, 06:33 PM
Out of all the good posters in this thread and the fucking nOObs nailed it...some of you are slipping BIG TIME

So, RAC "falling in love" with the guy means we're trading up in the 2nd for him?

I'm not buying it, especially for a NT.

They were trying to trade up because they felt the player they wanted was going to be taken before 50.

Troup going that early was a HUGE surprise to everyone.

the Talking Can
04-27-2010, 06:34 PM
point being, they did in fact intend to grab a nt/lb...

DaWolf
04-27-2010, 06:36 PM
The coaches had done a study about the number of big plays we had given up and how that position was responsible for it.

Tell me about it...

the Talking Can
04-27-2010, 06:36 PM
and if you replace arenas with misi...well that's an even better draft.....would have been sweet, oh well

they had some good talent identified right down to brokaki

DaWolf
04-27-2010, 06:40 PM
His reasoning on Lewis is really interesting. It will be interesting to see if he's right about the tape and game speed or if his slow combine times are foretelling...

Woodrow Call
04-27-2010, 06:40 PM
Great read love articles like this.
Posted via Mobile Device

BossChief
04-27-2010, 06:41 PM
So, RAC "falling in love" with the guy means we're trading up in the 2nd for him?

I'm not buying it, especially for a NT.

They were trying to trade up because they felt the player they wanted was going to be taken before 50.

Troup going that early was a HUGE surprise to everyone.

what do you mean by "especially for a NT"?

After the reports of how well Troup practiced and then performed and then was followed up by Romeo singing huge praises of him after the game, there was little doubt in my mind he was gonna be a player they targeted early in the draft.

Its all just our own opinion and will never materialize into something that will provide a real answer, I just strongly feel that Troup was our guy.

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-27-2010, 06:42 PM
Very good stuff!

JASONSAUTO
04-27-2010, 06:42 PM
point being, they did in fact intend to grab a nt/lb...

so they arent idiots now?:p

DaWolf
04-27-2010, 06:43 PM
that's a great interview...i never thought we'd get any kind of detail or candor on the draft from this tight lipped crew


Well now that I know that Clark Judge has gotten on Pioli's good side, I'll believe him when he has something to say about the Chiefs...

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2010, 06:45 PM
what do you mean by "especially for a NT"?

After the reports of how well Troup practiced and then performed and then was followed up by Romeo singing huge praises of him after the game, there was little doubt in my mind he was gonna be a player they targeted early in the draft.

Its all just our own opinion and will never materialize into something that will provide a real answer, I just strongly feel that Troup was our guy.

Pioli said they were trying to move up to get this player before 50.

NO ONE saw Troup going that early.

My point, which you keep overlooking:

Why would you be attempting to trade up for a player that NO ONE expects to be taken even before your 3rd round pick, much less at 50?

It makes no sense.

They knew a guy like Misi, for example, was coveted by other teams, including "the tree." There was no way in hell he was falling to 50.

the Talking Can
04-27-2010, 06:47 PM
so they arent idiots now?:p

correct, but now the true fans are for defending the myth that "it was his plan all along to pass on the front 7"...he clearly wanted to do the right thing


i'm actually heartened to believe they tried to trade up for misi...i had wished they'd done so for hughes, and at least i know they were following a similar path for a high impact player...

the Talking Can
04-27-2010, 06:48 PM
Well now that I know that Clark Judge has gotten on Pioli's good side, I'll believe him when he has something to say about the Chiefs...

"note to self....clark judge...."

ChiefRon
04-27-2010, 06:48 PM
And it also tells me Clausen wasn't even in the discussion. These are smart guys.

There's no way they thought Clausen would slip to 50, past Carolina.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2010, 06:49 PM
correct, but now the true fans are for defending the myth that "it was his plan all along to pass on the front 7"...he clearly wanted to do the right thing


i'm actually heartened to believe they tried to trade up for misi...i had wished they'd done so for hughes, and at least i know they were following a similar path for a high impact player...

Assuming it was Misi.

What if it was Gronkowski?

the Talking Can
04-27-2010, 06:49 PM
Assuming it was Misi.

What if it was Gronkowski?

LA LA LA LA I'M NOT LISTENING

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2010, 06:50 PM
LA LA LA LA I'M NOT LISTENING

LMAO

JASONSAUTO
04-27-2010, 06:50 PM
correct, but now the true fans are for defending the myth that "it was his plan all along to pass on the front 7"...he clearly wanted to do the right thing


i'm actually heartened to believe they tried to trade up for misi...i had wished they'd done so for hughes, and at least i know they were following a similar path for a high impact player...

hughes would have been tough to get IMO. and i dont know if anyone thought it was the plan all along, but at least they had a backup plan and got people they think are going to be playmakers

Mr. Laz
04-27-2010, 06:56 PM
interesting read

Dicky McElephant
04-27-2010, 06:57 PM
Assuming it was Misi.

What if it was Gronkowski?

Fuck Gronkowski.

That guy looked like a douche dancing around on the stage with his Patriots helmet on.

Looks like I have a new guy on the Pats to hate.








Clausen at #5.

ChiefRon
04-27-2010, 07:02 PM
My gut tells me it was Gronkowski, thus the move in the 3rd to move up for Moeaki.

I'd like to believe it was Misi or Washington.

HotRoute
04-27-2010, 07:08 PM
"I know he's had some durability issues" (Moeaki)
"he ran a slow time in the 40" (Lewis)
"another guy who plays faster than what he timed"(Sheffield)

sonunds like he had to settle with a few of these guys, and that he wasnt too crazy about them, either way i think that they all can come in and contribute in some way in week one.

LaChapelle
04-27-2010, 07:11 PM
They can blow smoke after the draft
just as well as they did before it

DaneMcCloud
04-27-2010, 07:15 PM
"I know he's had some durability issues" (Moeaki)
"he ran a slow time in the 40" (Lewis)
"another guy who plays faster than what he timed"(Sheffield)

sonunds like he had to settle with a few of these guys, and that he wasnt too crazy about them, either way i think that they all can come in and contribute in some way in week one.

What the fuck?

So, you think that he gave up a high fifth round pick for a guy he was "settling" for?

:facepalm:

As for Lewis and Sheffield, there's a difference between game speed and track speed.

Some guys can run a 4.5 and be slow (DJ for instance). Other guys can run a 4.7 and be all over the field.

It's called "Game Speed", meaning that those players are smart, prepared and intuitive.

JFC.

keg in kc
04-27-2010, 07:19 PM
"I know he's had some durability issues" (Moeaki)
"he ran a slow time in the 40" (Lewis)
"another guy who plays faster than what he timed"(Sheffield)

sonunds like he had to settle with a few of these guys, and that he wasnt too crazy about them, either way i think that they all can come in and contribute in some way in week one.I know Dane just said this in his own special way, but it sounded quite the opposite to me. Pioli seemed to be saying that they were all better than their workout numbers indicated, at least for Lewis and Sheffield. And as Dane mentioned, you probably don't trade up out of the 4th if you're settling.

Basically he's saying that they're drafting guys based on how they play, more than how they time, although they do still take some account for their workout numbers.

DaneMcCloud
04-27-2010, 07:21 PM
I know Dane just said this in his own special way

LMAO

HotRoute
04-27-2010, 07:23 PM
i was talking about the 5th rounders, he settled on. but ya i agree i think all of these guys numbers are decieving and that they showed a lot more in their film. it was just the way he phrased it sounded like he wasnt crazy about them

tmax63
04-27-2010, 07:24 PM
I just impressed that he sat down and gave their thinking. I don't ever remember an explanation before. This kind of openness is downright scary. Was he abducted and an alien sent in his place??????????????

HotRoute
04-27-2010, 07:24 PM
and for the record, i hope that moeaki kid turns into something special and can contribute to both the run game and the pass game. i think i read somewhere that he was a very talented blocker.

HotRoute
04-27-2010, 07:26 PM
I just impressed that he sat down and gave their thinking. I don't ever remember an explanation before. This kind of openness is downright scary. Was he abducted and an alien sent in his place??????????????

im pretty sure he did this last year as well, its part of the process. ya know after a draft, the process of answering the questions process.

BossChief
04-27-2010, 07:26 PM
Pioli said they were trying to move up to get this player before 50.

NO ONE saw Troup going that early.

My point, which you keep overlooking:

Why would you be attempting to trade up for a player that NO ONE expects to be taken even before your 3rd round pick, much less at 50?

It makes no sense.

They knew a guy like Misi, for example, was coveted by other teams, including "the tree." There was no way in hell he was falling to 50.
no offense but...

8 teams between 36 and 50 are 3-4 teams. roughly half of them need a nose guard. To say that "NO ONE" saw Troup going that early isnt looking at the situation objectively or realistically IMO.

A better statement would have been "no one on this board saw him going that early" but obviously the NFL looks at the player in a different light that some on this board and at some scouting sites.

Im starting to wonder though if the player they were trying to trade up for was a bit further back that 5 slots after our choice. That would mean that we were trying to trade within 4 slots of #36 and Im not sure that fits.

If we were looking to trade up for Misi, Troup or Gronkowski that means we were trying to trade up IMMEDIATELY after our pick at 36 because those players went right after us essentially.

Im going to retract my thought that we were trying to move up to get Troup because of that and think that the player we may have been targeting was in fact Gronkowski and that Boston Bill beat us to the punch on the selection. It fits that we traded up to get Moeaki about a round later that is another TE that is a good blocker that offers a receiving threat as well.

I bet it was Gronkowski given all the info on the table.

See, I can change my mind.

LaChapelle
04-27-2010, 07:34 PM
McCluster at 36 was no surprise

patteeu
04-27-2010, 07:37 PM
It's not clear to me from what Pioli says here whether Javier was one of the three being considered at 36 or not. My guess is that he wasn't and that the two players passed over for McCluster were both taken between 37 and 49. Maybe they waited until one of the two (Misi?) was taken and then tried unsuccessfully to trade up to get the other one (Gronkowski?)? :shrug:

Mecca
04-27-2010, 07:49 PM
Fuck Gronkowski.

That guy looked like a douche dancing around on the stage with his Patriots helmet on.

Looks like I have a new guy on the Pats to hate.








Clausen at #5.

Gronkowski looks like someone you'd see on the Jersey Shore wearing a muscle milk shirt.

keg in kc
04-27-2010, 07:51 PM
It's not clear to me from what Pioli says here whether Javier was one of the three being considered at 36 or not. My guess is that he wasn't and that the two players passed over for McCluster were both taken between 37 and 49. Maybe they waited until one of the two (Misi?) was taken and then tried unsuccessfully to trade up to get the other one (Gronkowski?)? :shrug:It was a little muddled there. You may be right.

LaChapelle
04-27-2010, 07:56 PM
He doesn't come out and say it was Eric Berry all the way
they still got that contract to work out

KC Jones
04-27-2010, 07:56 PM
i was talking about the 5th rounders, he settled on. but ya i agree i think all of these guys numbers are decieving and that they showed a lot more in their film. it was just the way he phrased it sounded like he wasnt crazy about them

I took it that if these guys had just slightly better times he thought they'd have been rated much more highly and picked long before they were.

patteeu
04-27-2010, 08:04 PM
I took it that if these guys had just slightly better times he thought they'd have been rated much more highly and picked long before they were.

Yeah, that's what it seemed like to me too.

The Bad Guy
04-27-2010, 08:52 PM
My sincere guess is it was Sergio Kindle.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-27-2010, 08:55 PM
Gronkowski looks like someone you'd see on the Jersey Shore wearing a muscle milk shirt.

He looked like The Situation up there doing the roid man dance after getting drafted.

Nightfyre
04-27-2010, 09:28 PM
I'm guessing Troup.

angelo
04-27-2010, 10:08 PM
"So which of them returns kicks? That's the beautiful part. Either can. We have depth at that position now."

I found this quote interesting. Personally I hope they use Arenas primarily for returns. Both McCluster's build and the position(s) he plays lend more toward injury so I'd rather not add to the risk by putting him on returns. Plus, Arenas has more experience on returns. They could use Arenas primarily and then throw McCluster in on an occasional return if they think he matches up well against a particular team.

I think that they will put both back there for kick offs. This makes the other team choose between the devil and the deep blue sea.

Ang

chiefzilla1501
04-27-2010, 10:38 PM
I think that they will put both back there for kick offs. This makes the other team choose between the devil and the deep blue sea.

Ang

Also takes away an extra blocker.

I think Arenas will handle punts and McCluster will handle kickoffs. I'm not usually crazy about players who handle both.

milkman
04-27-2010, 10:40 PM
Okay.

Who the hell is Dave Thomas?

irishjayhawk
04-27-2010, 10:40 PM
Okay.

Who the hell is Dave Thomas?

Founder of Wendy's?

chiefzilla1501
04-27-2010, 10:41 PM
"I know he's had some durability issues" (Moeaki)
"he ran a slow time in the 40" (Lewis)
"another guy who plays faster than what he timed"(Sheffield)

sonunds like he had to settle with a few of these guys, and that he wasnt too crazy about them, either way i think that they all can come in and contribute in some way in week one.

I don't think it's settling. I think it's being candid about what he knew were criticisms of these guys.

Sheffield, you didn't sense a whole lot of enthusiasm.

Thought the part about Kendrick Lewis having tendonitis was important. I've seen a lot of reports that Lewis' speed wasn't great but not a concern, up until he timed poorly at the combine. Watching tape, he certainly doesn't look slow. I hope that's the case, because he looks like he's a smart, instinctive player. I see Sammy Knight potential, who was pretty productive with a 4.74 40 time. If Lewis' 40 is more in the range of 4.6, which I think I read somewhere that that's what his speed seemed to be, that's something that would be okay for me for a more in-the-box type Safety.

Mecca
04-27-2010, 10:43 PM
Dave Thomas is a TE that is on New Olreans, NE traded him there last year for a bag of shit.

The Bad Guy
04-27-2010, 10:49 PM
Dave Thomas is a TE that is on New Olreans, NE traded him there last year for a bag of shit.

And he was pretty productive in NO.

keg in kc
04-27-2010, 10:50 PM
Founder of Wendy's?Damnit, I was just thinking about how good some of that apple smoked bacon might taste right now.

CaliforniaChief
04-27-2010, 11:07 PM
I like his take on Moeaki. I enjoyed watching the Orange Bowl, and remember a play late where Ricky Stanzi actually outran Derrick Morgan on a 3rd down scramble to the left side. Morgan being exhausted would explain that. That being the only game I'd ever seen Morgan play, I didn't understand what the BFD was about him. I never realized Moeaki had anything to do with that.

Edit: Here's the video.
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milkman
04-27-2010, 11:24 PM
Dave Thomas is a TE that is on New Olreans, NE traded him there last year for a bag of shit.

My question was rgetorical in nature to make point.

He's just a guy.

We essentially used two draft picks to selct player that reminds Pioli of just a guy.

mcaj22
04-28-2010, 12:02 AM
lol the fact that Arenas was in the running between two other guys to be picked at 36 is just mind boggling.

teedubya
04-28-2010, 12:11 AM
OK, guys I'm curious... Pioli says...

There was another guy we were considering at 36, but the other two were ahead of him. And what ended up happening was that we tried trading up earlier than 50, weren't able to get it done and the other player that we wanted went off the board. And then the next guy was Javier (Arenas), so when it came to 50 Javier was our guy.

I really want to know which Tight End we were gonna trade up to get? Any ideas?

-King-
04-28-2010, 12:50 AM
OK, guys I'm curious... Pioli says...



I really want to know which Tight End we were gonna trade up to get? Any ideas?
:facepalm:
Posted via Mobile Device

Mecca
04-28-2010, 01:10 AM
It's not so much that I mind Moeaki, I mind trading up for a TE in a deep as hell TE class.

BossChief
04-28-2010, 01:39 AM
It's not so much that I mind Moeaki, I mind trading up for a TE in a deep as hell TE class.

But you have to think about which ones fit our specific system and a guy like Moeaki is PERFECT for it. Our tight ends will be blocking more often than not and a guy that can block and be a weapon in the passing game is very valuable. It will allow us to run various formations and types of plays without having to exchange personnel. HUGE in 2 minute offense and no huddle.

I remember you saying to me "why do you keep talking about this guy, hes like the 19th rated tight end" or something like that awhile back. Im glad we got him.

If he didn't have a couple broken bone injuries, he would have been one of the top 2 or 3 in this class and could very well end up the best one out of this class in a couple years.

Mecca
04-28-2010, 01:44 AM
Well he won't help the team much when he's in the tub.

BossChief
04-28-2010, 02:01 AM
Well he won't help the team much when he's in the tub.

yeah, no doubt.

salame
04-28-2010, 02:02 AM
or when we are in 3 wr no te sets

Mecca
04-28-2010, 02:06 AM
I don't hate the guy, however I will say we could have just stayed where we were and taken Pitta who I really don't see much difference in other than he's a better receiver and doesn't have an injury history.

JohnnyV13
04-28-2010, 02:08 AM
I think Pioli viewed a reliable pass catcher in the middle of the field as a critical need. Last season, teams killed us with 0 gap (either side of the center) blitzes.

3-4 teams last season ran a lot of double 0 gap blitzes, where they blitzed both inside linebackers looking for quick pressure. 4-3 teams would use a one gap tackle and the middle linebacker to do something similar. Think back to last season to how many times teams blew up plays with zero gap blitzes against us.

One reason was we no longer had Tony G to make them pay. Think about what Tony g would do to a team that regularly blitzed both inside linebackers.

Mecca
04-28-2010, 02:09 AM
I would have been the first one to say we need some TE's, it's just we took a mix guy who gets injured.

Pitta was there and he's one of the better receiving TE's in the draft, arguable that he's the best one, and McCoy was the best blocking pro style TE, he's basically a Pettigrew clone.

salame
04-28-2010, 02:11 AM
I think Pioli viewed a reliable pass catcher in the middle of the field as a critical need. Last season, teams killed us with 0 gap (either side of the center) blitzes.

3-4 teams last season ran a lot of double 0 gap blitzes, where they blitzed both inside linebackers looking for quick pressure. 4-3 teams would use a one gap tackle and the middle linebacker to do something similar. Think back to last season to how many times teams blew up plays with zero gap blitzes against us.

One reason was we no longer had Tony G to make them pay. Think about what Tony g would do to a team that regularly blitzed both inside linebackers.

Well, I don't know what Tony G could have done about Cassel never ever ever taking a quick drop and setting his feet before throwing the ball

Wilson8
04-28-2010, 03:19 AM
The 5th round pick that we used to trade up for Tony Moeaki could have been used for Cam Thomas.

So is TE Tony Moeaki > than NT Cam Thomas + TE Dennis Pitta? We will have to wait a few years to find out.

Moeaki's injuries in college...
Sprained shoulder, dislocated elbow and broken wrist in 2007.
Broke his left foot in 2008 which required 2 surgeries to fix.
Missed 3 games in 2009 with sprained ankle.
He has also dealt with hamstring, calf, and concussion issues.

Everything you read and hear about Tony says he is a really good guy and has lots of talent but he has problems when it comes to staying on the field.

The NFL is even more physically demanding than college ball so maybe we tag team Cottam and Moeaki to get a full season.

Wilson8
04-28-2010, 03:42 AM
In Scott Pioli's pre-draft news conference he stated. "By nature I'm really not much of a risk taker". I think he is taking a risk with Tony Moeaki.

I agree with many of you that we needed a TE and Moeaki has some real good things going for him but I think Pioli took a big gamble on him when he traded up for him and used a 5th round pick that could have been used to help the NT position.

Blick
04-28-2010, 04:45 AM
I like how Mecca is comparing a 1st round TE to a 6th round TE. USC is just THAT good.

Mecca
04-28-2010, 04:50 AM
They're actually pretty similar in prospect terms, McCoy never had those numbers and the failed pot test took him from a 2 to a 5.

But seriously it has nothing to do with SC, people need to come off that.

Short Leash Hootie
04-28-2010, 05:05 AM
What flawed logic...

Lets say I'm in a room with 15 really hot girls...

But there is just 1 that I can't stop looking at...one that I believe is love at first site...

The others are super hot...but this one...wow...

But since there are like 5 or 6 guys and 15 of these girls...I figure maybe she'll approach me since I saw here possibly eyeing me a few times...

I wait and wait...see a few of the guys hook up with a few of the REALLY hot girls...and then finally I'm like FUCK it...I'm going to go approach her...

Any of that make any sense to you Mecca?

Who gives a fuck how deep the TE class was?

Why settle for something else when you like a different guy better than the other guy?

Blick
04-28-2010, 05:09 AM
They're pretty similar in prospect terms, so what's the problem with taking Moeaki, a more productive player in college (despite being frequently injured), over a guy who could have been taken in Moeaki's neighborhood (3-5, in your opinion), but didn't get taken until the 6th round?

Mecca
04-28-2010, 05:10 AM
Wait who went in the 6th? McCoy was a 5 if you mean him and yes they are totally different players which is why I mentioned Pitta if you wanted that kind of TE.

Short Leash Hootie
04-28-2010, 05:12 AM
They're pretty similar in prospect terms, so what's the problem with taking Moeaki, a more productive player in college (despite being frequently injured), over a guy who could have been taken in Moeaki's neighborhood (3-5, in your opinion), but didn't get taken until the 6th round?

Well I'll assume I know what you're talking about since this post doesn't make any sense...

But to your fanboy eye, Moeaki and McCoy may be similar prospects...sure.

But to people in the Chiefs brass who get paid professionally to scout these players, do interviews, assess character, etc. etc. etc.

Moeaki >>> McCoy.

And it's not like this was some sort of big surprise...

For god's sake, Moeaki was #48 on Gosselin's top 100 prospects list...

Blick
04-28-2010, 05:14 AM
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2010/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-round/dt-by-round-input:6

NFL.com says McCoy got taken in the 6th...

Short Leash Hootie
04-28-2010, 05:14 AM
Moeaki was #48...McCoy wasn't even on the list...Pitta was #59 FWIW

Short Leash Hootie
04-28-2010, 05:16 AM
but those are all projections...

The Chiefs sacrificed a late 5th to move up and pick THEIR guy...

Who gives a shit?

Time to get over it and start thinking perhaps they know what they're doing?

All they are doing right now is getting props from just about everyone for landing such a talented class of high character draft picks.

Blick
04-28-2010, 05:17 AM
Well I'll assume I know what you're talking about since this post doesn't make any sense...

But to your fanboy eye, Moeaki and McCoy may be similar prospects...sure.

But to people in the Chiefs brass who get paid professionally to scout these players, do interviews, assess character, etc. etc. etc.

Moeaki >>> McCoy.

And it's not like this was some sort of big surprise...

For god's sake, Moeaki was #48 on Gosselin's top 100 prospects list...

WTF son...I'm on your side as far as Moeaki over McCoy.

patteeu
04-28-2010, 06:33 AM
lol the fact that Arenas was in the running between two other guys to be picked at 36 is just mind boggling.

I don't think that's the case. The article isn't clear, but I think McCluster and the two other guys that Pioli considered at 36 were all taken before the 50th pick.

InChiefsHell
04-28-2010, 07:31 AM
Well, I have no idea who this mystery other pick would have been, but I think that this is probably one of the best articles I've read in years about the Chiefs...nice find!

chiefzilla1501
04-28-2010, 07:38 AM
I don't hate the guy, however I will say we could have just stayed where we were and taken Pitta who I really don't see much difference in other than he's a better receiver and doesn't have an injury history.

But again, Pitta can't block.

Lots of great receiving tight ends, but Moeaki is one of the few that can catch AND actually block really well. He's a terrific blocker.

Weis' system values a guy who can both block and catch. So guys like Graham or Pitta don't fit the system nearly as well as Moeaki.

penchief
04-28-2010, 07:51 AM
SECOND ROUND

Dexter McCluster, WR/RB, Mississippi (36)

One of the second-round upsets was not having offensive coordinator and former Notre Dame coach Charlie Weis talk the Chiefs into drafting quarterback Jimmy Clausen.

Pioli: "Let's start with McCluster. With the group of coaches we have here we talked about this at length, and we love the guy's dynamic playmaking ability -- and that's everyone. Coaches. Scouts. Myself. All of us. First of all, he was one of our top-rated wide receivers, and one of our top-rated running backs. So, with that, we felt here's a guy who has dynamic playmaking ability, improves our team speed, improves our speed on offense and also gives our coaching staff flexibility to do a number of things. I think coaches will be able to put together a number of different packages where sometimes he'll be a wide receiver, and sometimes he'll be a running back. He's going to be able to do a lot of different things, so we took him. At that point, there were really three players at 36 we were talking about -- and we had to make the decision which one had the best chance of getting to 50. So we took Dexter because we thought he had the least likelihood of making it to 50

I wonder if the bolded part includes Weis? And if so does that mean that the Clausen lovers should stop with the baseless claims that Weis wanted Clausen and the ONLY reason we didn't draft him was because Pioli is incompetent. Because it appears that even at pick 36 all the coaches were pretty much in agreement. Does it also put an end to the claims that Pioli doesn't listen to his coaches?

I'm curious what anyone else thinks about that part.

Frosty
04-28-2010, 07:56 AM
I think the mystery players were Washington and Joseph. I don't think they were Misi or Gronkowski because Pioli doesn't draft out of the western side of the US. :)

milkman
04-28-2010, 08:10 AM
I wonder if the bolded part includes Weis? And if so does that mean that the Clausen lovers should stop with the baseless claims that Weis wanted Clausen and the ONLY reason we didn't draft him was because Pioli is incompetent. Because it appears that even at pick 36 all the coaches were pretty much in agreement. Does it also put an end to the claims that Pioli doesn't listen to his coaches?

I'm curious what anyone else thinks about that part.

I believe every word that Pioli tells us in interviews, cause I'm a Kool-Aid drinking lemming.

patteeu
04-28-2010, 08:26 AM
I wonder if the bolded part includes Weis? And if so does that mean that the Clausen lovers should stop with the baseless claims that Weis wanted Clausen and the ONLY reason we didn't draft him was because Pioli is incompetent. Because it appears that even at pick 36 all the coaches were pretty much in agreement. Does it also put an end to the claims that Pioli doesn't listen to his coaches?

I'm curious what anyone else thinks about that part.

I do think it includes Weis, but I don't think it puts the question about Clausen to rest. I think it's entirely plausible that Weis loved McCluster and at the same time could have wanted to take Clausen at 36 (hoping that McCluster would be around at the next pick). I don't necessarily think that's the way it was, but I think it's plausible. My personal opinion is that Clausen didn't fit what Pioli was trying to do (team-oriented, football-loving character guys who could be expected to work hard rather than feel entitled) and that he wasn't really ever much of a consideration.

I also don't think that he's saying that all the coaches, scouts, etc. were conferring at the time the decision about 36 was being made. I think he's saying that over the course of their meetings in the weeks leading up to the draft, the coaches, scouts, etc. all loved McCluster. McCluster probably wasn't the only guy who was loved by each person although he may be one of the few who was loved by everyone.

patteeu
04-28-2010, 08:31 AM
I believe every word that Pioli tells us in interviews, cause I'm a Kool-Aid drinking lemming.

Good point.

Reerun_KC
04-28-2010, 08:42 AM
I believe every word that Pioli tells us in interviews, cause I'm a Kool-Aid drinking lemming.

Can you gurantee this is correct from the Source itself? Since you are 100% dead sure that your Kool-Aid Lemming theory is the absolute truth.. Can you get this in writing or an interview with Pioli to prove this is fact from Pioli himself?


Just curious?

milkman
04-28-2010, 08:53 AM
Can you gurantee this is correct from the Source itself? Since you are 100% dead sure that your Kool-Aid Lemming theory is the absolute truth.. Can you get this in writing or an interview with Pioli to prove this is fact from Pioli himself?


Just curious?

What the hell are you asking me to prove, exactly?

That I don't believe every word that Pioli has to say?

penchief
04-28-2010, 08:59 AM
I believe every word that Pioli tells us in interviews, cause I'm a Kool-Aid drinking lemming.

So I'm a Kool-Aid drinking lemming, huh? Jesus, people. Get a ****ing grip.

I think what this does is throw a monkey wrench into the baseless claims being made by the Clausen lovers/Pioli haters that Weis was clamoring for Clausen and the only reason we didn't draft him was because Pioli is incompetent and doesn't listen to his coaches. I think it also shows that the draft board is a much more collaborative effort than those same detractors would have us believe.

That said, I consider comments straight from the horses mouth to be more reliable than third party media reports. I'm not saying Weis wouldn't liked to have had Clausen but Pioli's comments paint an entirely different picture than the one being peddled by those who overvalued Clausen and can't let it go.

penchief
04-28-2010, 09:04 AM
I do think it includes Weis, but I don't think it puts the question about Clausen to rest. I think it's entirely plausible that Weis loved McCluster and at the same time could have wanted to take Clausen at 36 (hoping that McCluster would be around at the next pick). I don't necessarily think that's the way it was, but I think it's plausible. My personal opinion is that Clausen didn't fit what Pioli was trying to do (team-oriented, football-loving character guys who could be expected to work hard rather than feel entitled) and that he wasn't really ever much of a consideration.

I also don't think that he's saying that all the coaches, scouts, etc. were conferring at the time the decision about 36 was being made. I think he's saying that over the course of their meetings in the weeks leading up to the draft, the coaches, scouts, etc. all loved McCluster. McCluster probably wasn't the only guy who was loved by each person although he may be one of the few who was loved by everyone.

Everything you say is more than reasonable and quite likely. I'm sure Weis liked Clausen but not any more than a lot of other players. For some to behave as if Clausen was the one and only apple of Weis' eye is a little short sighted, IMO. This makes it sound as if Charlie was content with the McCluster pick.

Reerun_KC
04-28-2010, 09:04 AM
What the hell are you asking me to prove, exactly?

That I don't believe every word that Pioli has to say?

I want you to prove from Pioli that he didnt talk to Weis about Clausen before the draft...

And that Weis begged for Clausen but Pioli told him NO...

It seems to be the speculation around here...

patteeu
04-28-2010, 09:10 AM
I want you to prove from Pioli that he didnt talk to Weis about Clausen before the draft...

And that Weis begged for Clausen but Pioli told him NO...

It seems to be the speculation around here...

Is it even conceivable that Pioli wouldn't have talked to Weis about Clausen before the draft? I don't think so.

milkman
04-28-2010, 09:12 AM
So I'm a Kool-Aid drinking lemming, huh? Jesus, people. Get a ****ing grip.

I think what this does is throw a monkey wrench into the baseless claims being made by the Clausen lovers/Pioli haters that Weis was clamoring for Clausen and the only reason we didn't draft him was because Pioli is incompetent and doesn't listen to his coaches. I think it also shows that the draft board is a much more collaborative effort than those same detractors would have us believe.

That said, I consider comments straight from the horses mouth to be more reliable than third party media reports. I'm not saying Weis wouldn't liked to have had Clausen but Pioli's comments paint an entirely different picture than the one being peddled by those who overvalued Clausen and can't let it go.

I didn't want Clausen, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to take every word form Pioli as gospel.

What the hell is he gonna say?

"Charlie Weis wasn't on board, but fuck him, I'm in charge".

Brock
04-28-2010, 09:14 AM
"Yeah, Charlie really wanted him, but I told that fat fuck to get outta my office".

milkman
04-28-2010, 09:14 AM
I want you to prove from Pioli that he didnt talk to Weis about Clausen before the draft...

And that Weis begged for Clausen but Pioli told him NO...

It seems to be the speculation around here...

I still have no fucking idea what the hell you want.

All I'm saying here is that I don't believe every fucking thing that Pioli says.

Is that so fucking hard to grasp?

Wait.

You're a dumbass, so I guess the answer is "Yes".

Reerun_KC
04-28-2010, 09:14 AM
I didn't want Clausen, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to take every word form Pioli as gospel.

What the hell is he gonna say?

"Charlie Weis wasn't on board, but **** him, I'm in charge".

isnt that what you believe anyways?

Reerun_KC
04-28-2010, 09:17 AM
I still have no ****ing idea what the hell you want.

All I'm saying here is that I don't believe every ****ing thing that Pioli says.

Is that so ****ing hard to grasp?

Wait.

You're a dumbass, so I guess the answer is "Yes".

ROFL

Okay Milkman...

Why would anyone believe anything any Professional GM says to the fans? Did you believe and hang on every word Carl spoke?

milkman
04-28-2010, 09:17 AM
isnt that what you believe anyways?

No.

Reerun_KC
04-28-2010, 09:18 AM
"Yeah, Charlie really wanted him, but I told that "Buttfront"to get outta my office".

:D

Reerun_KC
04-28-2010, 09:19 AM
No.

K just checking....

Better go take your meds and get that BP under control today...

milkman
04-28-2010, 09:23 AM
isnt that what you believe anyways?

JFC, is it possible that you are really this stupid?

There isn't a GM in the NFL, past or present, that I would take at his word.

KCtotheSB
04-28-2010, 09:26 AM
Very good article and interview. I like hearing what the brass was thinking regarding some of these decisions and listening to their reasonings behind the picks. Man, I'm excited for training camp to get here.....

penchief
04-28-2010, 09:27 AM
I didn't want Clausen, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to take every word form Pioli as gospel.

What the hell is he gonna say?

"Charlie Weis wasn't on board, but **** him, I'm in charge".

I never said that I believe every word someone says. However, I think Pioli's own words are to be taken into account when deciphering the decision not to draft Jimmy Clausen at pick 36, let alone five (because we now know that nobody thought he was worth a first round grade).

Do you think that everybody BUT Pioli wanted Clausen? Or do you think that based on these comments that the concensus was pretty much McCluster? Or do you give more credence to the third party media reports that have fed into the sour grapes of the Clausen lovers?

I think those who suggest that for Charlie Weis it was, "Clausen or bust," are selling Charlie short. I think he's probably more capable of seeing the bigger picture than many want to give him credit for.

Does anyone have any proof that Weis was not on board with the McCluster pick?

Brock
04-28-2010, 09:28 AM
:facepalm:

milkman
04-28-2010, 09:31 AM
I never said that I believe every word someone says. However, I think Pioli's own words are to be taken into account when deciphering the decision not to draft Jimmy Clausen at pick 36, let alone five (because we now know that nobody thought he was worth a first round grade).

Do you think that everybody BUT Pioli wanted Clausen? Or do you think that based on these comments that the concensus was pretty much McCluster? Or do you give more credence to the third party media reports that have fed into the sour grapes of the Clausen lovers?

I think those who suggest that for Charlie Weis it was, "Clausen or bust," are selling Charlie short. I think he's probably more capable of seeing the bigger picture than many want to give him credit for.

Does anyone have any proof that Weis was not on board with the McCluster pick?

I don't know what Charlie Weis was thinking, nor do I care, because I don't give a rat's ass about Clausen.

All I'm saying is that we are never going to know, one way or the other, how this all actually played out.

So to suggest that this should put to rest the belief that Weis wasn't pining for Clausen is naive, at best.

Reerun_KC
04-28-2010, 09:38 AM
JFC, is it possible that you are really this stupid?

There isn't a GM in the NFL, past or present, that I would take at his word.
I was beginning to wonder if you were so fucking stupid to believe everything an NFL GM said was the truth?

Glad to see you arent.. Was worried there for a moment....

ChiefRon
04-28-2010, 09:43 AM
I think we just need to accept the fact that Cassel is part of the "right 53", at least in the eyes of the FO.

I bet when we talked to Weis about coming here, a lot of the talk centered around improving Cassel's play. And based on how the draft went down, the consensus was obviously to improve his play the offense needed more weapons.

I'm not saying Weis wasn't heckling the others on draft day about "franchise QB still on the board", but QB was probably never a target, especially since we had no 6th or 7th round picks.

patteeu
04-28-2010, 09:51 AM
I think we just need to accept the fact that Cassel is part of the "right 53", at least in the eyes of the FO.

I bet when we talked to Weis about coming here, a lot of the talk centered around improving Cassel's play. And based on how the draft went down, the consensus was obviously to improve his play the offense needed more weapons.

I'm not saying Weis wasn't heckling the others on draft day about "franchise QB still on the board", but QB was probably never a target, especially since we had no 6th or 7th round picks.

I doubt that Weis was even present on draft day. At least not in the war room.

penchief
04-28-2010, 09:52 AM
I don't know what Charlie Weis was thinking, nor do I care, because I don't give a rat's ass about Clausen.

All I'm saying is that we are never going to know, one way or the other, how this all actually played out.

So to suggest that this should put to rest the belief that Weis wasn't pining for Clausen is naive, at best.

Fair enough. I can agree with that take. I think it does, however, offer something tangible to counter a lot of the baseless claims being made against Pioli and how things went down with the decision making process.

Coogs
04-28-2010, 10:51 AM
Good article. Not what I was expecting though when I read this...

The bottom line is that Kansas City general manager Scott Pioli did in this draft what I thought he failed to do in 2009, which is to nail top-rated players with every choice. I'm not sure what happened, so I decided to ask Pioli. Here are his responses:

I thought this was going to be an article explaining the different philosophy's between the two drafts.

BossChief
04-28-2010, 01:43 PM
What the hell are you asking me to prove, exactly?

That I don't believe every word that Pioli has to say?

After rewatching a couple interviews with Pioli before the draft, I will definitely put a little more worth into what he says this time around next year.

In that interview with Jack Harry before the draft he says he will target playmakers and team speed...look what happened.

That is just one example, but at a time when disinformation would have been beneficial...he chose to basically lay out his exact plan for the draft for all to see.

Makes ya think how many other times he chooses to tell the truth over using a brand of "coach speak"

Woodrow Call
04-28-2010, 02:18 PM
Some more draft praise, probably not worth its own thread

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/blog?name=schefter_adam&id=5142244

2. Kansas City Chiefs

After speaking with roughly a half-dozen teams and asking them who they thought had the best drafts, Kansas City was a team that was continually mentioned. What impressed them was not first-round pick Eric Berry, who was an easy pick. What stood out was the Chiefs’ second round: slot receiver Dexter McCluster and cornerback Javier Arenas. Both have speed and talent, and both will help.

Frankie
04-28-2010, 02:56 PM
THE KEY TO SUCCESSFULLY PREDICTING THE @)!! CHIEFS DRAFT:

Once you've prepared your potential NFL draftees list cross out the ones who have not been team captains.






You're welcome.

(A mere positive rep would be acceptable for this.)

chiefzilla1501
04-28-2010, 04:11 PM
I don't know what Charlie Weis was thinking, nor do I care, because I don't give a rat's ass about Clausen.

All I'm saying is that we are never going to know, one way or the other, how this all actually played out.

So to suggest that this should put to rest the belief that Weis wasn't pining for Clausen is naive, at best.

There are two sides:
You're right that this doesn't definitely prove that Weis wasn't pining for Clausen

But a lot of people are using the argument that Weis pined for Clausen and Tate, therefore, he must have been upset when they took McCluster. Pioli's comments at least suggest that Weis liked McCluster too. And the real proof will be when we see the kinds of things Weis chooses to do with McCluster.

If Weis is really experimental in how he uses McCluster, I think that's an indication that he really liked him. If he uses him almost exclusively in the slot that, in my opinion, might make me call into question whether Weis was truly on board with the pick.

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-28-2010, 04:17 PM
Some more draft praise, probably not worth its own thread

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/blog?name=schefter_adam&id=5142244

2. Kansas City Chiefs

After speaking with roughly a half-dozen teams and asking them who they thought had the best drafts, Kansas City was a team that was continually mentioned. What impressed them was not first-round pick Eric Berry, who was an easy pick. What stood out was the Chiefs’ second round: slot receiver Dexter McCluster and cornerback Javier Arenas. Both have speed and talent, and both will help.

But, but Pioli reached on a couple of slow midgets!!!

Sweet Daddy Hate
04-28-2010, 05:24 PM
This offseason we signed Ryan Lilja and Casey Wiegmann, but there's nothing wrong with getting a good young guy who doesn't need to be forced on the field immediately.


Great! Now lets apply that concept to the most important position on our offense, where it MIGHT DO SOME FUCKING GOOD IN THE LONG RUN.
:facepalm: