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Hog Farmer
05-08-2010, 06:41 PM
It's really hard for the human mind to imagine the infinity of outerspace. Everything in our world is finite with a border or an end. I personally am amazed and curious as to what lies at the end , or is there an end. There can't be an end. Something has to exist at the end. Anyway , I included a link so you can view pic's. Neat stuff. Hogfarmer.

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2010/05/07/2297402.aspx

Strange shapes in space
Posted: Friday, May 07, 2010 7:25 PM by Alan Boyle


ESA / PACS / SPIRE / HOBYS
The Herschel space telescope's view of RCW 120 shows a bubble pushed out by
a big star's blast, with yet another giant star forming on the bubble's right edge.

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The shapes of bubbles and clouds in outer space demonstrate that physics can do some pretty bizarre things on a giant scale.

Take RCW 120, for example. The star-forming bubble, about 4,200 light-years away in the constellation Scorpius, is the subject of a European Space Agency picture celebrating the first anniversary of the Herschel space telescope's launch.




ESP
RCW 120's central star can be seen in this APEX picture.

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Radiation from a hot, massive star at the bubble's center is blasting gas and dust outward, and that's what has cleared out the space around the star. The central star doesn't show up well in Herschel's infrared image, but you can see it easily in this submillimeter-wavelength view from the European Southern Observatory's APEX telescope in Chile.

The shock wave from the central star compresses the material on the bubble's edge so much that still more stars are being squeezed into existence. In the Herschel image, you can see a particularly bright spot on the right edge of the bubble. That's an embryonic star that appears destined to turn into one of the brightest lights in our galaxy.

The Herschel science team calls it an "impossible" star because it's exceeding the theoretical limit for a star's mass.

"This star can only grow bigger," Annie Zavango, an astronomer at the Laboratoire d'Astrophysique de Marseille, said in the ESA's image advisory. "According to our current understanding, you should not be able to form stars larger than eight solar masses."

At about eight solar masses, the power of the newborn star should blast away any additional gas or dust before the extra mass has a chance to accumulate. But the star at the bubble's edge is already eight to 10 times as massive as the sun, and it's on track to get much larger.

Astronomers have already spotted stars that are as much as 150 times as massive as the sun, but they don't know exactly how they can get that large. A close study of the brightening light in RCW 120 could show them the way.




NASA / ESA / STScI
Hubble's view of Eta Carinae.

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Stellar blasts can blow amazing bubbles in space. Perhaps the best-known blast is associated with Eta Carinae, a supermassive star that could go supernova one of these days.

Its double-lobed shape, reminiscent of an old-fashioned dumbbell, arises because the star is blowing material out from both poles.

Lots of stellar explosions take on this shape: The phenomenon has been attributed to several factors, including spin dynamics and the star's magnetic field.




NASA / ESA / KULeuven / Berkeley
Hubble image of Red Rectangle.

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Perspective plays a role as well: One famous example is the Red Rectangle, which looks like a quadrangle but is actually two back-to-back cones of material flowing out from a double-star system.

And then there's the hexagon on Saturn: The six-sided cloud pattern at the ringed planet's north pole has puzzled astronomers for decades, but now physicists have figured out the dynamics that can cause hexagonal features - as well as triangular, square and even seven-sided shapes as well. They can even create them in the lab.




Oxford via YouTube
Simulation shows six-sided fluid flow. Click for YouTube video.

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Researchers from Oxford University produced the geometrical effects using a solution of water and glycerol in a tank that could be spun up to various speeds. Their findings were published in the journal Icarus last month, and this week Planetary Society blogger Emily Lakdawalla provided plenty of pictures and videos explaining the phenomenon.

Still more strange sights can be seen at the surface of our sun, as illustrated by the first big batch of photos from NASA's Solar Dynamics Observatory. One video clip shows a huge prominence looping up from the sun's surface and back down again. Another movie shows a wave of plasma rising up, then falling back down to the surface like "coronal rain."




NASA
Click for slideshow: Looping flares and more April highlights.

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The curling action occurs because of complex loops in the sun's magnetic field, as discussed by Discovery News' Ian O'Neill. Those loops help explain why the solar corona gets so much hotter than the actual surface of the sun.

The Solar Dynamics Observatory's perspective on the sun's sizzling loops is the top picture in our latest installment of the Month in Space Pictures. For more strange shapes, click your way through the curiosities on exhibit in msnbc.com's Space Gallery.

HotRoute
05-08-2010, 06:47 PM
"Gets the ol' Synaptic Swirl doin' the Wang Dang Doodle. "


I like the pics in the link definately a good read

Hog Farmer
05-08-2010, 06:57 PM
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/b0lxbzgwW7I&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/b0lxbzgwW7I&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

KcMizzou
05-08-2010, 07:02 PM
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/b0lxbzgwW7I&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/b0lxbzgwW7I&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>This is why I don't understand people who rule out the possibility of life on other planets. I mean, if it happened here...

I'd think it's almost a certainty that there is somewhere out there. I think religion would be the only thing that would make people believe otherwise.

HotRoute
05-08-2010, 07:02 PM
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Feel free to consider my mind freaking blown. lol

Hog Farmer
05-08-2010, 07:09 PM
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FAX
05-08-2010, 07:22 PM
The universe is indeed massive. I think it could hold like ... maybe ... 1 billion hogs. Maybe more.

FAX

Hog Farmer
05-08-2010, 07:24 PM
The universe is indeed massive. I think it could hold like ... maybe ... 1 billion hogs. Maybe more.

FAX

Way more Fax, Way more.

Ugly Duck
05-08-2010, 07:54 PM
It's really hard for the human mind to imagine the infinity of outer space. Everything in our world is finite with a border or an end. I personally am amazed and curious as to what lies at the end , or is there an end.The universe is finite, too. Finite yet unbounded.... there is no "end." Space is bent. Its a Gaussian coordinate relativity kinda thing.

stumppy
05-08-2010, 08:03 PM
This is why I don't understand people who rule out the possibility of life on other planets. I mean, if it happened here...

I'd think it's almost a certainty that there is somewhere out there. I think religion would be the only thing that would make people believe otherwise.


I agree. I would think with the number of planets in the universe it would be a mathmatical certainty there are other populated worlds.

The more we learn about the universe the less I buy into there being an all powerful being as our creator.

cdcox
05-08-2010, 08:49 PM
Balloons that are filled with helium and float up in the sky.

The sun is filled with helium and floats up the sky.

Therefore, the moon is filled with helium.

RedNFeisty
05-08-2010, 09:04 PM
Balloons that are filled with helium and float up in the sky.

The sun is filled with helium and floats up the sky.

Therefore, the moon is filled with helium.

Nice affirming the consequent fallacy used there! ;)


Great read Hogfarmer!

scorpio
05-08-2010, 09:32 PM
The universe is finite, too. Finite yet unbounded.... there is no "end." Space is bent. Its a Gaussian coordinate relativity kinda thing.

Are you really a raider fan?

thebrad84
05-08-2010, 11:28 PM
This is why I don't understand people who rule out the possibility of life on other planets. I mean, if it happened here...

I'd think it's almost a certainty that there is somewhere out there. I think religion would be the only thing that would make people believe otherwise.

I don't rule out the possibility of life on other planets, however i rule out the possibility of that life ever being discovered by humans. The areas in our galaxy that scientist have determined to be capable of sustaining life is still trillions upon trillions of miles too far away for the world's most advanced telescope to see anything that would prove life existed there. It's one of those things that we just have to mathematically assume is more probable than not, but yet will never be able to prove.

sedated
05-08-2010, 11:29 PM
someone must've gotten really stoned tonight...

KcMizzou
05-08-2010, 11:44 PM
I don't rule out the possibility of life on other planets, however i rule out the possibility of that life ever being discovered by humans. The areas in our galaxy that scientist have determined to be capable of sustaining life is still trillions upon trillions of miles too far away for the world's most advanced telescope to see anything that would prove life existed there. It's one of those things that we just have to mathematically assume is more probable than not, but yet will never be able to prove.Yeah... I don't know that we'll ever find life anywhere else... It's just that I'm almost certain there is.

Valiant
05-09-2010, 12:35 AM
I love looking at Hubble pictures.. the only thing I don't like is if that is what the stuff looks like or which ones they altered for coloring to make it more visible in the pictures..

lostcause
05-09-2010, 12:39 AM
outerspace isn't infinite. The universe has and always will have a finite boundary.

lostcause
05-09-2010, 12:43 AM
That said, the universe is pretty fucking cool.

Hog Farmer
05-09-2010, 08:18 AM
outerspace isn't infinite. The universe has and always will have a finite boundary.


If it has a finite boundary then whats on the other side ?

BossChief
05-09-2010, 08:22 AM
If it has a finite boundary then whats on the other side ?

this

Bwana
05-09-2010, 08:53 AM
Heh, I feared this was going to be a "yeah, I was out in the barn rubbing out a little hog goo, when the abduction took place" kind of thread.

lostcause
05-09-2010, 09:12 AM
If it has a finite boundary then whats on the other side ?

Nothing. There is no other side.

Ugly Duck
05-09-2010, 09:18 AM
The universe has and always will have a finite boundary.Finite, and yet unbounded. Finite, and yet unbounded. Einstein wrote about that & its the accepted way of conceptualizing the universe. We have to embrace relativity or we'll go nuts trying to undertand the universe. Think about this... regular old Euclidean geometry only describes geometry on a flat 2-dimensional surface as you would draw it on a piece of paper. You can draw stuff like triangles and circles and squares and they will come out just like we learned them in grade school. Add up the 3 angles of a triangle and you'll get 180 degrees every time. But space is bent. We just can't apply Euclidean geometry to the universe or you'll come to the "Where's the 'end' problem."

Now take you piece of paper with the triangles and stuff on it and bend it like we know that space is bent. Put it on a basketball and smooth it down. Now all your triangles & stuff curve and stretch and disfigure because they are bent in 3-D.... kinda like space. Your straight lines are now curved, your triangles no longer add up to 180 degrees. None of your geometric shapes look anything like they did in grade school. We just can't take what "seems right" to us on Earth and project that straight-line kinda thinking out into curved space. Without considering relativity, we just cannot hold a working conception of the geometry of the universe in our puny minds. Our heads will pop.

lostcause
05-09-2010, 09:24 AM
However, there is a distinct boundary that continues to expand, non-euclidean geometry aside. And remember there is a possibility that the universe will max out its expansion and contract back to a single point.

OleMissCub
05-09-2010, 09:37 AM
Truly, there is no more humbling video than this concerning space. Easily my favorite video on the internet.


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rwalke10
05-09-2010, 10:03 AM
Goto the NASA Hubble Telescope images library sometime. They have images there that are simply beyond belief. Some of the colors and hues are breathtaking.

Well, just search for hubble space telescope image library. CP won't let me post the link.

OleMissCub
05-09-2010, 10:21 AM
Many say that this is the most important image ever taken. It was taken over several days by the Hubble and in this single image are over 3,000 galaxies, each with hundreds of billions of suns. Every single speck of light is a galaxy. There could be millions of civilizations in this single photograph:

http://newtech.aurum3.com/images/hubble-deep-space.jpg

Hog Farmer
05-09-2010, 10:24 AM
Nothing. There is no other side.

My mind cannot comprehend this. Where one thing ends ,something else must begin.

Ugly Duck
05-09-2010, 10:30 AM
However, there is a distinct boundary that continues to expand, non-euclidean geometry aside.

I was reminding folks that "boundary" when we are contemplating the universe does not mean what "boundary" means to us here in everyday life. In practical terms here on Earth..... if there is a boundary, then there is something on the other side (see HogFarmer above). That doesn't apply when we're talking about bent spacetime & gravity defining the universe. Hawking expresses this duality of meaning in this quote from Brief History: "The boundary condition of the universe is that it has no boundary."

OleMissCub
05-09-2010, 10:31 AM
My mind cannot comprehend this. Where one thing ends ,something else must begin.

It's like trying to understand the concept of infinity

Hog Farmer
05-09-2010, 10:31 AM
Truly, there is no more humbling video than this concerning space. Easily my favorite video on the internet.


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Puts a lot of things in perspective. Nice!

Mr. Flopnuts
05-09-2010, 10:36 AM
This is why I don't understand people who rule out the possibility of life on other planets. I mean, if it happened here...

I'd think it's almost a certainty that there is somewhere out there. I think religion would be the only thing that would make people believe otherwise.

I think it takes living in a really small box which some people absolutely need to do. There's really not any doubt in my mind that there's civilized life out there, probably in multiple places. Some less advanced than us, others probably more advanced than us.

Hog Farmer
05-09-2010, 10:37 AM
I was reminding folks that "boundary" when we are contemplating the universe does not mean what "boundary" means to us here in everyday life. In practical terms here on Earth..... if there is a boundary, then there is something on the other side (see HogFarmer above). That doesn't apply when we're talking about bent spacetime & gravity defining the universe. Hawking expresses this duality of meaning in this quote from Brief History: "The boundary condition of the universe is that it has no boundary."


I think the Universe we see is probably like a spec of dust in another world and the inhabitants there can possibly see us through their most powerful microscope on a slide. Our Universe is like a molecule. But even then ,that means the inhabitants that are trying to view us live in their own little world. It's gotta end somewhere.

Hog Farmer
05-09-2010, 10:39 AM
I think it takes living in a really small box which some people absolutely need to do. There's really not any doubt in my mind that there's civilized life out there, probably in multiple places. Some less advanced than us, others probably more advanced than us.

For sure. And even here on Earth there are people like us and then there are creatures we can't even explain. Like KnowMo.

OleMissCub
05-09-2010, 10:43 AM
I try to explain to people why even finding a microbe on Mars or somewhere else is so important. Basically, if we find ANY shred of evidence of even microbial life on another world, then it is a mathematical certainty that intelligent life like our own exists elsewhere.

For now, scientists can't make that definitive determination because there is still a chance that life on earth is an anomaly in the universe.

Ebolapox
05-09-2010, 10:45 AM
Truly, there is no more humbling video than this concerning space. Easily my favorite video on the internet.


<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2pfwY2TNehw&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2pfwY2TNehw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

I'll call it: n00b of the year 2010.

Hog Farmer
05-09-2010, 10:49 AM
I wonder if those stars the hubble has viewed exploding are an advanced version of Earth where humanity evolves and we all try to kill each other for a few million years and in the end mankind always finds a way to destroy itself. Each one of those exploding stars is the end time and each one had a Russia, America, Middle East ,Pakistan, and Obama that ends it all with terorist detonating all the nuclear weapons in the name of Allah.

lostcause
05-09-2010, 11:58 AM
Well, I won't argue with Hawking - he probably knows more than I do. However, I always akin it to the concept of time, that time only exists within the span of the existence of the universe and that it is not infinite. There was no time before the big bang and if the universe contracts back to a singularity then there will be no time after that.

Hawking's proposal in The Universe in a Nutshell of the megaverse is an intriguing alternative.

lostcause
05-09-2010, 11:59 AM
I wonder if those stars the hubble has viewed exploding are an advanced version of Earth where humanity evolves and we all try to kill each other for a few million years and in the end mankind always finds a way to destroy itself. Each one of those exploding stars is the end time and each one had a Russia, America, Middle East ,Pakistan, and Obama that ends it all with terorist detonating all the nuclear weapons in the name of Allah.

Many Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics?

CosmicPal
05-09-2010, 12:02 PM
Well, I won't argue with Hawking - he probably knows more than I do.

Probably?

No offense, but I'm fairly certain he knows a lot more than you do.

Bwana
05-09-2010, 12:06 PM
Probably?

No offense, but I'm fairly certain he knows a lot more than you do.

ROFL

That was my first thought as well. Probably indeed......

Ebolapox
05-09-2010, 12:06 PM
Probably?

No offense, but I'm fairly certain he knows a lot more than you do.

ROFL

truth.

lostcause
05-09-2010, 12:07 PM
Probably?

No offense, but I'm fairly certain he knows a lot more than you do.

Perhaps in the realm of physics, I guess.

Bwana
05-09-2010, 12:08 PM
Wow

Chiefs Rool
05-09-2010, 12:13 PM
it sure is big, but there ain't no life other than here on earth.

Bwana
05-09-2010, 12:20 PM
it sure is big, but there ain't no life other than here on earth.

Humans, or ANY life at all?

CosmicPal
05-09-2010, 12:20 PM
Truly, there is no more humbling video than this concerning space. Easily my favorite video on the internet.


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Damn...that was good stuff. Here's the transcript:

00:00 → 00:05
"Pale Blue Dot" Written by Carl Sagan USA
00:05 → 00:08
From this distant vantage point,
00:08 → 00:12
the earth might not seem of any particular interest.
00:12 → 00:15
But for us, it's different.
00:15 → 00:19
Consider again that dot. That's here.
00:19 → 00:22
That's home. That's us.
00:23 → 00:27
On it, everyone you love, everyone you know,
00:27 → 00:32
everyone you ever heard of. Every human being who ever was
00:32 → 00:34
lived out their lives.
00:34 → 00:37
The aggregate of our joy and suffering.
00:38 → 00:43
Thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines,
00:43 → 00:47
every hunter are forager, every hero and coward,
00:47 → 00:51
every creator and destroyer of civilization.
00:51 → 00:54
every king and peasant, every young couple in love,
00:54 → 01:00
every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer,
01:00 → 01:04
every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician,
01:04 → 01:08
every superstar, every supreme leader
01:08 → 01:11
every saint and sinner in the history of our species
01:11 → 01:13
lived there.
01:13 → 01:15
On the mote of dust.
01:15 → 01:18
Suspended in a sunbeam.
01:19 → 01:26
The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena.
01:27 → 01:30
Think of the rivers of blood
01:30 → 01:33
spilled by all those generals and emperors
01:33 → 01:36
so that in glory and in triumph they could become
01:36 → 01:41
the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot.
01:42 → 01:45
Think of the endless cruelties visited
01:45 → 01:48
by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel
01:48 → 01:53
on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner.
01:53 → 01:56
How frequent their misunderstandings,
01:56 → 01:59
how eager they are to kill one another,
01:59 → 02:02
how fervent their hatreds.
02:04 → 02:08
Our posturings, our imagined self-importance,
02:08 → 02:12
the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe,
02:12 → 02:17
are challenged by this point of pale light.
02:17 → 02:24
Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark.
02:25 → 02:30
In our obscurity -- in all this vastness
02:30 → 02:34
there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere
02:34 → 02:37
to save us from ourselves.
02:38 → 02:42
The earth is the only world know so far to harbor life.
02:42 → 02:45
There is nowhere else, at least in the near future
02:45 → 02:47
to which our species could migrate.
02:48 → 02:53
Visit? Yes. Settle? Not yet.
02:53 → 02:59
Like it or not, for the moment, the earth is where we make our stand.
03:00 → 03:06
It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience.
03:06 → 03:10
There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits
03:10 → 03:14
than this distant image of our tiny world.
03:14 → 03:18
To me, it underscores our responsibility
03:18 → 03:21
to deal more kindly with one another
03:21 → 03:30
and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

alnorth
05-09-2010, 12:25 PM
I was reminding folks that "boundary" when we are contemplating the universe does not mean what "boundary" means to us here in everyday life. In practical terms here on Earth..... if there is a boundary, then there is something on the other side (see HogFarmer above). That doesn't apply when we're talking about bent spacetime & gravity defining the universe. Hawking expresses this duality of meaning in this quote from Brief History: "The boundary condition of the universe is that it has no boundary."

silly question. Under this understanding of the universe, have our telescopes seen everything in the universe, or are there galaxies in the universe that are too distant to see? (by "seen everything", I mean every planet is near a star, every star is in a galaxy, and if we "saw" that galaxy as a tiny white speck, then we've basically seen that star and planet too)

Fish
05-09-2010, 12:26 PM
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lostcause
05-09-2010, 12:27 PM
Wow

I apologize that sarcasm doesn't translate well on the intrawebs.

lostcause
05-09-2010, 12:28 PM
it sure is big, but there ain't no life other than here on earth.

Considering how much we are still finding out about planets close to earth, that would probably be a bit premature of a statement.

Bwana
05-09-2010, 12:29 PM
I apologize that sarcasm doesn't translate well on the intrawebs.

No problem LC. You're right, it can be hard to tell at times. :doh!:

lostcause
05-09-2010, 12:31 PM
silly question. Under this understanding of the universe, have our telescopes seen everything in the universe, or are there galaxies in the universe that are too distant to see? (by "seen everything", I mean every planet is near a star, every star is in a galaxy, and if we "saw" that galaxy as a tiny white speck, then we've basically seen that star and planet too)

Probably not. The biggest determining factor is if light from other universes has had time to reach earth - which is unlikely.

Fish
05-09-2010, 12:33 PM
Also an oldie that absolutely blew my mind way back in the day....

<object width="400" height="300">


<embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=819138&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="300"></object>powers of ten :: charles and ray eames (http://vimeo.com/819138) from bacteriasleep (http://vimeo.com/bacteriasleep) on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com).

Ugly Duck
05-09-2010, 01:16 PM
Perhaps in the realm of physics, I guess.I use a "realm" concept to pretend that I'm reducing my level of confusion. I split things up into 3 realms: The Realm of the Subatomic, the Realm of Bwana and the Realm of the Universe.

The subatomic realm gets all Heisenbergy where an electron can be observed as a wave in one instant and as a particle in the next. Its a wiggly, squiggly, fuzzy world.

The Bwana realm has rules much easier to follow. We can know both the velocity and the position of Bwana relative to the surface of the earth in his immediate vicinity at any time. He is traveling SW at 90 MPH towards Arrowhead, etc. We don't observe him as a Chiefs fan one instant and a Raider fan the next. Euclid squared up the garage he just built. When gets drunk, Newton smacks his face into the asphalt. He probably doesn't give a crap what Heisenberg thinks about the nature of electrons in transistors - he just wants his damn computer to work. He won't rub shoulders with Einstein until he's on an intercontinental flight having a cellphone argument with his wife back home about whose watch is off.

Einstein rules the realm of the universe, and we have no choice but to pay homage and genuflect. Rules that govern the subatomic realm don't make sense when you apply them on a galactic scale. If we look to the nature of the universe through Bwana eyes, we end up asking questions like "Whats on the other side of the 'boundary' of the universe?" If we try to answer that from a Bwana-realm perspective, our heads will explode. Be careful, me buckos....

CosmicPal
05-09-2010, 01:48 PM
Humans, or ANY life at all?

I don't think there are humans very much like ourselves out there. But it's hard to imagine that there aren't some form of intelligent beings somewhere out there.

But as for other "un"intelligent life- absolutely. We have yet to explore 90% of our oceans and thanks to the Titantic, we've only recently discovered that life can live at the bottom of our world even though there is no light, no oxygen, and is too cold to sustain life. Instead, we've discovered an amazing world of species living in that inhospitable environment without light, without air, without warmth, without a lot of the things we thought were required for life to sustain itself.

And these weren't just microbes..there were albino crabs, squid, eels, etc.

Also, it is hypothesized that the oceans were built billions of years ago by hundreds of thousands of meteorites which are nothing but solid forms of ice and other building blocks for life. And these things came from space. Therefore, if life came to us from space, then there must be life out there.

Aren't we currently exploring one of Saturn's moons? It is thought to be nothing but a world of ice with water underneath. I think we're building some sort of device that we will land on that moon and it will drill into the ice to look for life.

Hog Farmer
05-09-2010, 03:29 PM
I wonder if other life forms have evolved to a level of comprehension that they have figured out that jerking off the livestock makes your food supply grow exponentially ?

niblet
05-09-2010, 03:48 PM
Truly, there is no more humbling video than this concerning space. Easily my favorite video on the internet.


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Great video. I saw this version of it just a few days ago--it's odd to see it pop up so soon.
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tJE_Ld-UyCk&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tJE_Ld-UyCk&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

I think it's next to a certainty that life exits elsewhere in the Universe, but it gets more convoluted when you try to think of what it's like. I mean, would evolution produce nervous systems again? It's just too complicated.

notorious
05-09-2010, 03:55 PM
Quick Trivia Question:


Why does every galaxy and star appear slightly red in color?

Fish
05-09-2010, 03:57 PM
It's been discussed a lot that planets like ours would cause life to evolve in a similar fashion, due to environmental influences. So there's a possibility that there really are other "humanoidish" life forms out there if there's other Earthlike planets out there with similar gravity, heat, gases, liquids, etc.

But what would be really interesting is the life that would evolve on worlds vastly different than ours. Say like a huge gas giant. There could be infinite possibilities about how life could evolve. Our own imaginations can't even allow us to comprehend what could be going on in places like that.

Fish
05-09-2010, 04:07 PM
Quick Trivia Question:


Why does every galaxy and star appear slightly red in color?

Huh? They don't. There are lots of blue, white, and yellow stars as well.

Are you hinting at redshift due to the universe expanding away from us? Even taking redshift into account, not all galaxies and stars appear red.

One of the brightest stars in our sky, Rigel, appears blue in color.

alnorth
05-09-2010, 04:07 PM
Quick Trivia Question:


Why does every galaxy and star appear slightly red in color?

they are moving away from us?

notorious
05-09-2010, 04:10 PM
Good Job guys. Almost every object in space appears to have a red tint because it is traveling away from us. It is similar to the Doppler effect.

notorious
05-09-2010, 04:12 PM
What blows my mind is light. It always travels the same speed relative to the observer, and can be bent with gravity.

Awesome stuff.

Fish
05-09-2010, 04:28 PM
I've always found it interesting to think that what little we know of our universe is mostly from an "Earth outwards" approach. Most of the objects that form the constellations in our sky are not related to each other at all. They just appear that way from our simplistic 2D point of view. They are often a gazillion light years away from each other. But all we see is our little 2D version of the sky. As our understanding of space expands, we're going to have to completely revise the way we "map" the universe. Like switching from 2D to 3D.

And what we do see, is actually light that is billions of years old. So not only are we only seeing a 2D version, but most of it is also what the universe looked like billions and billions of years ago.

We have so very much to learn...

notorious
05-09-2010, 05:03 PM
And what we do see, is actually light that is billions of years old. So not only are we only seeing a 2D version, but most of it is also what the universe looked like billions and billions of years ago.

We have so very much to learn...


That's another thing I find very interesting. We are looking into the universe's past, and in reality what we are seeing might not exist anymore. If we see a civilization on another planet someday via telescope, they will be far more advanced then what we actually see.

Light, gravity, time/space are cool as hell.

notorious
05-09-2010, 05:08 PM
Every time a person flys, drives, or even runs they are slowing time for themselves.


Wrap your mind around that......

DaneMcCloud
05-09-2010, 05:47 PM
There is most certainly life in the universe and possibly, life in our solar system on the moons of Jupiter and Saturn.

There is no reason for an advanced extraterrestrial civilization to contact the people of Earth. We are a violent species that kill each other every single day for a myriad of "justified" reasons.

I have no idea why an advanced civilization, capable of intersteller travel would want to reveal themselves, other than to enslave and take over our world.

Maybe someday in the future, that will change.

Hog Farmer
05-09-2010, 06:41 PM
There is most certainly life in the universe and possibly, life in our solar system on the moons of Jupiter and Saturn.

There is no reason for an advanced extraterrestrial civilization to contact the people of Earth. We are a violent species that kill each other every single day for a myriad of "justified" reasons.

I have no idea why an advanced civilization, capable of intersteller travel would want to reveal themselves, other than to enslave and take over our world.Maybe someday in the future, that will change.



That's what Hawking suggested recently ,that the only reason another civilization would come here would be to rpae us of all our resources and leave.

And also, how the hell does Hawkings talk without moving his lips. He'd make a damn good tranquilisist.

notorious
05-09-2010, 06:44 PM
And also, how the hell does Hawkings talk without moving his lips. He'd make a damn good tranquilisist.

LMAO

LocoChiefsFan
05-09-2010, 06:49 PM
This is why I don't understand people who rule out the possibility of life on other planets. I mean, if it happened here...

I'd think it's almost a certainty that there is somewhere out there. I think religion would be the only thing that would make people believe otherwise.

This

Hog Farmer
05-09-2010, 07:03 PM
Rainman brought up an interesting view in another thread. What if Adam and Eve were put here to colonize this planet from a dying planet. Regardless of your religious beliefs , it is an interesting thought.

FAX
05-09-2010, 07:42 PM
I've always found it interesting to think that what little we know of our universe is mostly from an "Earth outwards" approach. Most of the objects that form the constellations in our sky are not related to each other at all. They just appear that way from our simplistic 2D point of view. They are often a gazillion light years away from each other. But all we see is our little 2D version of the sky. As our understanding of space expands, we're going to have to completely revise the way we "map" the universe. Like switching from 2D to 3D.

And what we do see, is actually light that is billions of years old. So not only are we only seeing a 2D version, but most of it is also what the universe looked like billions and billions of years ago.

We have so very much to learn...

See ... this is exactly what I'm talking about. We mere human beans have no idea what is out there ... or how big it actually is. Very possibly, the universe could, in fact, be comprised of one very large hog. Since hogs are roundish as opposed to squarish or triangularishish, the entire universe could very well exist on the inside of this giant hog. Now, admittedly, this hog would be big. Real big. However, there is honestly no way of knowing whether or not we live inside a hog, since the entire universe and everything in it exists within the interior of the hog, no one (including Hawking) has ever been outside the great cosmic hog so they would never know.

Now, this would also explain why the universe has no "boundary" as physicists generally define it since the great cosmic hog poops out complete galaxies willy nilly creating (for all intents and purposes) a limitless universe of great cosmic hog poop where the great cosmic flies live to pester God and Jesus and Mary while they are out on a picnic and trying to enjoy a little down time.

FAX

Hog Farmer
05-09-2010, 09:05 PM
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Hog Farmer
05-09-2010, 09:07 PM
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ThaVirus
05-09-2010, 10:07 PM
Every time a person flys, drives, or even runs they are slowing time for themselves.


Wrap your mind around that......

I've heard that if an object were able to achieve light speed, time would move much, much, much slower for it as opposed to the world around it.. But that only pertained to light speeds as far as I knew; can you explain what you mean?

Crush
05-09-2010, 10:14 PM
Here is the link to my old astronomy thread with some good pictures in it.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=160105&highlight=astronomy

niblet
05-09-2010, 10:32 PM
I've heard that if an object were able to achieve light speed, time would move much, much, much slower for it as opposed to the world around it.. But that only pertained to light speeds as far as I knew; can you explain what you mean?

I assume he's talking about the same effect, but the time distortion resulting from the speeds he's talking about is incredibly small, so it's more an interesting fact than anything of practical significance.

Earthling
05-09-2010, 11:14 PM
Many say that this is the most important image ever taken. It was taken over several days by the Hubble and in this single image are over 3,000 galaxies, each with hundreds of billions of suns. Every single speck of light is a galaxy. There could be millions of civilizations in this single photograph:

http://newtech.aurum3.com/images/hubble-deep-space.jpg

What is really interesting about this picture is that they pointed the telescope at a seemingly "empty" part of space and were completely amazed at how full this empty part of space actually was. Pretty mind-boggeling.

bowener
05-10-2010, 12:59 AM
It's really hard for the human mind to imagine the infinity of outerspace.


It is actually impossible for the human mind to imagine infinite space or eternal time. It is also impossible for the human mind to imagine death. Neat facts about our brain :thumb:

bowener
05-10-2010, 01:08 AM
There is most certainly life in the universe and possibly, life in our solar system on the moons of Jupiter and Saturn.

There is no reason for an advanced extraterrestrial civilization to contact the people of Earth. We are a violent species that kill each other every single day for a myriad of "justified" reasons.

I have no idea why an advanced civilization, capable of intersteller travel would want to reveal themselves, other than to enslave and take over our world.

Maybe someday in the future, that will change.

I was bored one day and wondered why, if advanced beings do exist and travel, why they have not really contacted us, but possibly just flown by a few times.

I decided, and I am serious, that Earth is a podunk town out in the boonies. Think about it. We are way out here one one of the galactic spiral arms, way they fuck out here where nobody wants to come visit, its too damn far and there aint shit to see! Now, if we lived closer to the super massive 4M Blackhole (but not too close!) at the center of the Milk Way, man that is where it is happening! We would be close to all the other solar systems, right up next to each other! Think of it like apartments in a city vs farm houses in BFE.

I guess the only aliens willing to drive by and visit us are old ones that want to take the scenic route around the solar system before they bite it, and teens that just want a drunken night out... which explains the anal probes...

So, I think Earth needs to get together and come up with some really good advertising ploys or something. Maybe a galactic water park, or moon motels, or something that isn't fucking boring! Maybe once a year we shoot off dozens of nuclear warheads at the sun to put on a beautiful light show! That might attract somebody to come by and hang out with us. We need to come up with something though or else we are going to lose out on the MW-money and some asshole planet like Mars is going to rake it all in...fuckers.

FAX
05-10-2010, 02:21 AM
I assume he's talking about the same effect, but the time distortion resulting from the speeds he's talking about is incredibly small, so it's more an interesting fact than anything of practical significance.

Exactly so, Mr. niblet. Well put. Succinct and precisely stated. And, might I add, that that's what I've been saying all along. Have you ever seen a hog with a wrist watch? No, you haven't. Nor, I might add, have you seen one with a pocket watch or an alarm clock. Well, you might aver, hogs don't have wrists or pockets or morning meetings to which they might be embarrassingly late. Aha! I might reply, so true. Then I might add, however, that's not the point. The salient point is that hogs have no concept of time. None whatsoever. For, to a hog, all time is the same. There is no past or future in hog experience. Everything is either "now" or it is meaningless. A hog can be fast or slow. It makes no difference whatsoever. Time might slow down and the hog is both unaware and unaffected. Time might speed up and the hog remains completely and utterly oblivious to the effect. Yet, unbeknown to the hog, time (as we know it) is, in fact, passing and the hog is born, grows to maturity, is whacked off a few times, and dies. And this explains why it's very likely that the universe exists inside of a big, cosmic hog.

FAX

Hog Farmer
05-10-2010, 02:38 AM
Actually there are a ton of people out there that believe in "Planet X,Nibiru" which is supposedly a planet that passes close by the Earth every 3600 years. It is said that that planet and Earth were one and split in half . It now sits in the outer reaches of the solar system and is blamed for the uneven orbits of Nuptune and uranus due to it's magnetic pull on them.

It is believed by some that the planet is inhabitated by creatures similar to us and are actually the mythical Gods that you read about. When the planet passes through each time ,which by the way the next one is 2012 , it wipes the planet clean of civilization due to the shifting of the poles and the changes in the environment it causes. It's really pretty interesting and scary at the same time.


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Bane
05-10-2010, 05:23 AM
[QUOTE=Hog Farmer;6748510]Actually there are a ton of people out there that believe in "Planet X,Nibiru" which is supposedly a planet that passes close by the Earth every 3600 years. It is said that that planet and Earth were one and split in half . It now sits in the outer reaches of the solar system and is blamed for the uneven orbits of Nuptune and uranus due to it's magnetic pull on them.

It is believed by some that the planet is inhabitated by creatures similar to us and are actually the mythical Gods that you read about. When the planet passes through each time ,which by the way the next one is 2012 , it wipes the planet clean of civilization due to the shifting of the poles and the changes in the environment it causes. It's really pretty interesting and scary at the same time.

Damnit!:mad: So we only have 2 years to find the "right" 53!:cuss::cuss::cuss:

FAX
05-10-2010, 05:32 AM
It is a little scary. But the good news is that, if we can convince a couple of Annunaki to join the team, we'll win every Super Bowl for the next 3600 years.

FAX

Bane
05-10-2010, 05:37 AM
It is a little scary. But the good news is that, if we can convince a couple of Annunaki to join the team, we'll win every Super Bowl for the next 3600 years.

FAX

ROFL

Hog Farmer
05-10-2010, 07:14 AM
It is a little scary. But the good news is that, if we can convince a couple of Annunaki to join the team, we'll win every Super Bowl for the next 3600 years.

FAX

You do make a solid point. I'll bet we could get a good NT and a legit QB.

loochy
05-10-2010, 09:04 AM
:spock:

Actually there are a ton of people out there that believe in "Planet X,Nibiru" which is supposedly a planet that passes close by the Earth every 3600 years. It is said that that planet and Earth were one and split in half . It now sits in the outer reaches of the solar system and is blamed for the uneven orbits of Nuptune and uranus due to it's magnetic pull on them.

It is believed by some that the planet is inhabitated by creatures similar to us and are actually the mythical Gods that you read about. When the planet passes through each time ,which by the way the next one is 2012 , it wipes the planet clean of civilization due to the shifting of the poles and the changes in the environment it causes. It's really pretty interesting and scary at the same time.


<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LcGBM2RzTHo&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LcGBM2RzTHo&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

:spock:

Huffmeister
05-10-2010, 09:48 AM
If you liked the Pale Blue Dot video, I would HIGHLY recommend watching Carl Sagan's entire Cosmos series. In fact, I would recommend it to anyone. Even though it's 30 years old, it still has immense relevance today. He presents the subjects of astronomy, chemistry, history, physics, and even philosophy in a very cohesive narrative.

Plus, I just like to listen to him talk :)

jidar
05-10-2010, 09:51 AM
I see a few people in here talking about the nature of the universe and a lot of what people are saying is dated so I figured I would post a video of a very entertaining speech Lawrence Krauss gave last year about the current state of cosmology.

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bowener
05-10-2010, 08:05 PM
Many say that this is the most important image ever taken. It was taken over several days by the Hubble and in this single image are over 3,000 galaxies, each with hundreds of billions of suns. Every single speck of light is a galaxy. There could be millions of civilizations in this single photograph:

http://newtech.aurum3.com/images/hubble-deep-space.jpg

In my physics course we learned the conservative estimate for the amount of galaxies in existence is somewhere around ~1.5 x 10^11, or 150,000,000,000 galaxies.

The more interesting stat was that there is probably about the same number of stars per galaxy on average, or 150,000,000,000 stars in every galaxy.

That comes to a (conservative) total of 150,000,000,000 x 150,000,000,000 or 1.5 x 10^22.

The middle range to high estimate is trillions, so 1 x 10^12 for both individually or 10^24 stars in the Universe.

1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the Universe.

The Milky Way has an estimated 200,000,000 stars for what its worth.

So, for a hypothetical vignette, imagine then that only 1% of all stars form a stable solar system or 1x10^22.

Of those 1x10^22 solar systems, say only 1 in every trillion form life of any kind in their system or 1x10^ 10 (10,000,000,000). That is 10 billion possible places for life to exist. I realize this is a hypothetical model, but this shows how dealing with immense numbers can lead to massive amounts of "impossible" acts, such as life forming.

Granted, 10,000,000,000 solar systems would mean that only 100 galaxies would have life in them on average.

I made all those stats up in this vignette, they may be lower or higher, I'm not certain of where I should look to find out, but either way it is a pretty astounding thing to break down and really think about the possible numbers of physical phenomena in the Universe.

Breakdown of the numbers for simplicity
1000000000000 = (10^12) Galaxies
1000000000000 = (10^12) Stars per galaxy
-----------------------------------
1000000000000000000000000 = (10^24) Stars in the Universe
___________________________________
10000000000000000000000 = hypothetical Stars forming a stable SS.
10000000000 = Hypothetical life holding SS
100 = Galaxies with life
1 = Known existence of Life

edit: I probably messed some of this up.

healthpellets
05-10-2010, 08:46 PM
i love this kind of stuff, even though i don't understand most of it.

The Elegant Universe on PBS (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html).

I made it about halfway through Greene's book. Good read, but just beyond me. Though, most anything theoretical is...

Hog Farmer
05-11-2010, 01:34 PM
In my physics course we learned the conservative estimate for the amount of galaxies in existence is somewhere around ~1.5 x 10^11, or 150,000,000,000 galaxies.

The more interesting stat was that there is probably about the same number of stars per galaxy on average, or 150,000,000,000 stars in every galaxy.

That comes to a (conservative) total of 150,000,000,000 x 150,000,000,000 or 1.5 x 10^22.

The middle range to high estimate is trillions, so 1 x 10^12 for both individually or 10^24 stars in the Universe.

1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the Universe.

The Milky Way has an estimated 200,000,000 stars for what its worth.

So, for a hypothetical vignette, imagine then that only 1% of all stars form a stable solar system or 1x10^22.

Of those 1x10^22 solar systems, say only 1 in every trillion form life of any kind in their system or 1x10^ 10 (10,000,000,000). That is 10 billion possible places for life to exist. I realize this is a hypothetical model, but this shows how dealing with immense numbers can lead to massive amounts of "impossible" acts, such as life forming.

Granted, 10,000,000,000 solar systems would mean that only 100 galaxies would have life in them on average.

I made all those stats up in this vignette, they may be lower or higher, I'm not certain of where I should look to find out, but either way it is a pretty astounding thing to break down and really think about the possible numbers of physical phenomena in the Universe.

Breakdown of the numbers for simplicity
1000000000000 = (10^12) Galaxies
1000000000000 = (10^12) Stars per galaxy
-----------------------------------
1000000000000000000000000 = (10^24) Stars in the Universe
___________________________________
10000000000000000000000 = hypothetical Stars forming a stable SS.
10000000000 = Hypothetical life holding SS
100 = Galaxies with life
1 = Known existence of Life

edit: I probably messed some of this up.


about 3 years ago I bought some night vision goggles . Some good ones, about $2500. If you go out and look at the stars it is totally fucking amazing. The number of stars you can see , it's like the sky is a solid blanket lit up. You can also see satellites moving through space. If you are lucky enough to catch a meteorite while with the goggles on they are awesome.

bowener
05-11-2010, 02:40 PM
about 3 years ago I bought some night vision goggles . Some good ones, about $2500. If you go out and look at the stars it is totally ****ing amazing. The number of stars you can see , it's like the sky is a solid blanket lit up. You can also see satellites moving through space. If you are lucky enough to catch a meteorite while with the goggles on they are awesome.

That sounds pretty fucking cool man. I wish I had the money to buy some of those... aren't they illegal in the US, or is that just for hunting?

lostcause
05-11-2010, 04:04 PM
Fascinating video Jidar. Thanks for sharing.

Hog Farmer
05-11-2010, 04:20 PM
That sounds pretty ****ing cool man. I wish I had the money to buy some of those... aren't they illegal in the US, or is that just for hunting?

No they're not illegal, but hunting on public land is illegal with them. They work fine with no moon, but with some moon or especially a full moon it's like daytime. We hunt coyotes at night and use the goggles to watch them come in and then hit them with lights for the kill. Here's what I got:

http://www.newcon-optik.com/nvs7.html

tiptap
05-11-2010, 04:40 PM
One question brought up about dilation of time of an accelerating object is truly relevant to most people who have GPS. In order for those satellites to give the correct location they have to account for Special Relativity and use lorentz Geometry to triangulate. The satellites are moving fast enough and the precision in time keeping small enough that it dictates using those non Euclidean methods. (As a history lesson the first GPS satellites had both straight Euclidean and lorentzian geometry built into the system because the military didn't quite believe there would be Relativistic effects. It took like three days and they dropped the Euclidean notions.)

And there are two questions, one about the Red Shift and the second question about whether we have seen all of the Universe. Actually as you look farther away the Red Shift is larger meaning the object is moving faster away from us (and everything else). And because this is as much to do with the space expanding as with the objects themselves moving, there are objects moving away from us at faster than light speeds because of space accelerating in size. Those objects and those before are lost to us as light leaving them will never reach us. They are in the "cone of silence"

Hog Farmer
05-11-2010, 06:05 PM
One question brought up about dilation of time of an accelerating object is truly relevant to most people who have GPS. In order for those satellites to give the correct location they have to account for Special Relativity and use lorentz Geometry to triangulate. The satellites are moving fast enough and the precision in time keeping small enough that it dictates using those non Euclidean methods. (As a history lesson the first GPS satellites had both straight Euclidean and lorentzian geometry built into the system because the military didn't quite believe there would be Relativistic effects. It took like three days and they dropped the Euclidean notions.)

And there are two questions, one about the Red Shift and the second question about whether we have seen all of the Universe. Actually as you look farther away the Red Shift is larger meaning the object is moving faster away from us (and everything else). And because this is as much to do with the space expanding as with the objects themselves moving, there are objects moving away from us at faster than light speeds because of space accelerating in size. Those objects and those before are lost to us as light leaving them will never reach us. They are in the "cone of silence"

So if the Universe is expanding, what is it expanding into . What is at the end or the other side. It's hard to comprehend nothingness.

nstygma
03-17-2011, 01:37 PM
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