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The Bad Guy
05-09-2010, 12:33 PM
According to Bill Williamson, he keeps hearing that the Chiefs have interest in Thomas. I think it would be a smart move only if he's in the middle.

I don't think he's an outside LB.

Having Hali, Vrabel, Johnson and Thomas wouldn't be too bad. At 270 pounds, I think he could be effective in the run game.

Rain Man
05-09-2010, 12:40 PM
Since our second-best pass rusher is Ryan Succop, it seems like we should consider some depth at that function.

Fritz88
05-09-2010, 12:43 PM
it was only a matter of time, an upgrade nevertheless.

sofa king prostitutes himself to avoid speeding tickets.

chiefzilla1501
05-09-2010, 12:46 PM
Seems a little big to play ILB and a little bit too much on the decline to play OLB.

Given his attitude and age, do we really want this guy here unless he's a really good starter?

Marcellus
05-09-2010, 01:09 PM
Seems a little big to play ILB and a little bit too much on the decline to play OLB.

Given his attitude and age, do we really want this guy here unless he's a really good starter?

All depends on the $. If he is cheap enough let him come in and compete.

LaChapelle
05-09-2010, 01:10 PM
Quick
some one pave the road from the airport to Arrowhead

Sure-Oz
05-09-2010, 01:11 PM
Be nice if we try to bring in henderson, who seems to have fallen off the face of the earth. I'd be all for bringing thomas in

Chiefs Rool
05-09-2010, 01:14 PM
I'll be happy if we can pick him up on a not-so expensive deal. Heck, a few years ago he was the next LT and have no reason not to want to take a flyer on this guy. We did nothing about our terrible pass rush this off-season, I'm all for signing him. In fact, I'd be pretty darn happy if we did.

BossChief
05-09-2010, 01:14 PM
no thank you.

tyton75
05-09-2010, 01:14 PM
does anyone doubt that Thomas would be a BIG upgrade over Corey Mays??

hell yes bring him in

Von Dumbass
05-09-2010, 01:15 PM
I don't think the Chiefs are creative enough to use Adalius Thomas properly.

pr_capone
05-09-2010, 01:17 PM
I don't think the Chiefs are creative enough to use Adalius Thomas properly.

Yup, because Crennel is a known schlub of a DC. :shake:

chiefzilla1501
05-09-2010, 01:17 PM
All depends on the $. If he is cheap enough let him come in and compete.

I don't think it's worth it. I just don't see what he brings to the table. Is he good enough to justify stealing time away from Hali/Studebaker (this should be an evaluation year for both those guys)? No. Is he good enough to play ILB? I don't think he is. Add in that if you're going to draw the line in the sand for character, then why bring in a guy like Thomas? Is he a guy you want in your locker room? Probably not. Regardless of salary, the costs outweigh the benefits.

Von Dumbass
05-09-2010, 01:18 PM
Yup, because Crennel is a known schlub of a DC. :shake:

Crennel has been coaching for a very long time and is pretty much set in his ways. The younger guys like Rex Ryan and Wink Martindale are the creative ones.

mcaj22
05-09-2010, 01:18 PM
who fucking knows anymore. His asking price cannot be worth what he is going to put out on the field, so we might as well keep the shitter LBers we have now, at least they are cheap.

chiefzilla1501
05-09-2010, 01:18 PM
Yup, because Crennel is a known schlub of a DC. :shake:

Well, I don't know what happened in New England. But he went from being a 10-sack monster to a complete scrub in New England. I think there's definitely an argument to be made that he isn't built for the New England system.

chiefzilla1501
05-09-2010, 01:19 PM
Crennel has been coaching for a very long time and is pretty much set in his ways. The younger guys like Rex Ryan and Wink Martindale are the creative ones.

Oh give me a fucking break.

Bane
05-09-2010, 01:20 PM
Crennel has been coaching for a very long time and is pretty much set in his ways. The younger guys like Rex Ryan and Wink Martindale are the creative ones.

ROFL
So you do comedy on the side.....

mcaj22
05-09-2010, 01:21 PM
Well, I don't know what happened in New England. But he went from being a 10-sack monster to a complete scrub in New England. I think there's definitely an argument to be made that he isn't built for the New England system.



he stopped playing next to Ray Lewis, it happens to a lot of LBers once they leave Baltimore.

DA_T_84
05-09-2010, 01:23 PM
Quick
some one pave the road from the airport to Arrowhead

Rep!

Reaper16
05-09-2010, 01:24 PM
Crennel has been coaching for a very long time and is pretty much set in his ways. The younger guys like Rex Ryan and Wink Martindale are the creative ones.
Ah, there it is.

BossChief
05-09-2010, 01:26 PM
I don't think

you got that right.

...

the :facepalm: was made for your posts.

every one of them.

-King-
05-09-2010, 01:28 PM
Crennel has been coaching for a very long time and is pretty much set in his ways. The younger guys like Rex Ryan and Wink Martindale are the creative ones.

ROFL

chiefzilla1501
05-09-2010, 01:30 PM
he stopped playing next to Ray Lewis, it happens to a lot of LBers once they leave Baltimore.

It has nothing to do with Ray Lewis. Maybe more to do with Ed Reed.

When Adalius was in Baltimore under Rex Ryan, the defense gave a million different looks. They ran the 3-4, the 4-3, the 46. Adalius was a pass rusher but he also played a Safety-like position. I like Romeo, but he's not Rex Ryan. Not even close. Ryan is a mastermind and I think he got a lot more out of Adalius because he knew how to use him.

SNR
05-09-2010, 01:31 PM
I forgot. Only if your coach is a goddamn 12 year old is he creative enough to effectively use all his players

Reaper16
05-09-2010, 01:34 PM
I forgot. Only if your coach is a goddamn 12 year old is he creative enough to effectively use all his players
The 12 year old coach isn't creative enough. But Don "Wink" Martindale is.

*Wink*

pr_capone
05-09-2010, 01:36 PM
Well, I don't know what happened in New England. But he went from being a 10-sack monster to a complete scrub in New England. I think there's definitely an argument to be made that he isn't built for the New England system.

Understood... my argument was not for or against Thomas, it was a reply to numbnuts comment about our coaches not being creative enough.

Bane
05-09-2010, 01:38 PM
Understood... my argument was not for or against Thomas, it was a reply to numbnuts comment about our coaches not being creative enough.

Maybe I'm lost...Isn't that the same numbnuts that said they're DC last year was soooooooo good that he was basically a 2nd HC?.......:spock:ROFL

The Bad Guy
05-09-2010, 01:46 PM
Seems a little big to play ILB and a little bit too much on the decline to play OLB.

Given his attitude and age, do we really want this guy here unless he's a really good starter?

Seems a little big to play inside in a 3-4? Really? He can move laterally and I think his best years came as in inside backer in Baltimore.

I also don't think his attitude is that bad. He was never ever a problem until last year in New England.

Being that we have Corey Mays, DeMorrio Williams at inside backer, I don't see any downside.

The Bad Guy
05-09-2010, 01:47 PM
Set in his ways? Crennel runs a ton of 4-3 variations in his schemes.

What has Wink Martindale ever done? Jack and fucking shit. That's it.

Just because a janitor hangs out with Donald Trump, doesn't mean he can build hotels, dickface.

RustShack
05-09-2010, 01:48 PM
Hali, Thomas, DJ, Vrabel.

GET IT DONE CAR.. Ioli.

The Bad Guy
05-09-2010, 01:49 PM
I don't think it's worth it. I just don't see what he brings to the table. Is he good enough to justify stealing time away from Hali/Studebaker (this should be an evaluation year for both those guys)? No. Is he good enough to play ILB? I don't think he is. Add in that if you're going to draw the line in the sand for character, then why bring in a guy like Thomas? Is he a guy you want in your locker room? Probably not. Regardless of salary, the costs outweigh the benefits.

He's not stealing anything away from outside linebackers. He played inside in his first year in New England and did a pretty good job.

KCrockaholic
05-09-2010, 02:05 PM
How is knowmo still green? I don't neg rep him, but you would think people would neg rep him "back to the stone ages".

Crush
05-09-2010, 02:59 PM
How is knowmo still green? I don't neg rep him, but you would think people would neg rep him "back to the stone ages".


He is a figment of our collective imagination.

Pushead2
05-09-2010, 03:02 PM
I also don't think his attitude is that bad. He was never ever a problem until last year in New England.

Being that we have Corey Mays, DeMorrio Williams at inside backer, I don't see any downside.

This......major this...

pr_capone
05-09-2010, 03:06 PM
He is a figment of our collective imagination.

CP must be populated by masochists then.

kysirsoze
05-09-2010, 03:11 PM
How many players have left NE and gone on to be really successful? It seems like BB knows when to dump players. Still, he would be an upgrade so I would have to be happy about the signing. And to the posters worried about the money. Why??? Are we taking a collection or something?

kysirsoze
05-09-2010, 03:11 PM
CP must be populated by masochists then.

Well we ARE Chiefs fans.

DeezNutz
05-09-2010, 03:13 PM
We have jack fucking shit at LB, so bring him in. Bring anyone in.

Param
05-09-2010, 03:16 PM
I remember reading he wanted to rush the passer in NE rather than play in the middle. But, he doesn't have a job so i'm sure he'll sign with someone soon.

Hog Farmer
05-09-2010, 03:16 PM
Well, I don't know what happened in New England. But he went from being a 10-sack monster to a complete scrub in New England. I think there's definitely an argument to be made that he isn't built for the New England system.

He went to shit when Vrabel left.

Hog Farmer
05-09-2010, 03:18 PM
Crennel has been coaching for a very long time and is pretty much set in his ways. The younger guys like Rex Ryan and Wink Martindale are the creative ones.

Have some rep bitch !

bowener
05-09-2010, 03:49 PM
Be nice if we try to bring in henderson, who seems to have fallen off the face of the earth. I'd be all for bringing thomas in

Maybe he is going to sit around and relax and rest his gigantic body until part way through training camp, then he will become active again. I can't blame a DLman who is over 300lbs at his age for wanting to do that. Not like he has a whole lot of new things to learn.

Fruit Ninja
05-09-2010, 04:02 PM
Knowmo reminds me of a kids bday party when they put a blindfold on them spin them around and let them swing aimlessly at the pinata. Thats how his fucking posts are.

kysirsoze
05-09-2010, 04:04 PM
Knowmo reminds me of a kids bday party when they put a blindfold on them spin them around and let them swing aimlessly at the pinata. Thats how his ****ing posts are.

I think it's funny you went there instead of Pin the Tail on the DONKEY.:)

LaChapelle
05-09-2010, 04:16 PM
I think it's funny you went there instead of Pin the Tail on the DONKEY.:)

I think he was going for
"goodies" gushing from a sack
getting wacked above him

Chiefs Rool
05-09-2010, 04:23 PM
so did we sign him yet? come on! I want him

DaneMcCloud
05-09-2010, 04:41 PM
There is no salary cap.

Why the fuck does anyone mention the size of the contract or even care?
Posted via Mobile Device

kysirsoze
05-09-2010, 04:43 PM
There is no salary cap.

Why the **** does anyone mention the size of the contract or even care?
Posted via Mobile Device

And even if there was, we wouldn't even be close to having a cap problem, right? I don't get it either.

beach tribe
05-09-2010, 04:46 PM
And even if there was, we wouldn't even be close to having a cap problem, right? I don't get it either.

It depends on the size of the contract over the long haul. I don't care how much they give him up front, but I don't want his contract getting in the way of us going after someone in the future. Salary Cap or not, there's only so much money this team can/will/will be able to spend compared to other clubs.

Count Zarth
05-09-2010, 04:50 PM
I'll take a less broke dick than a fully broke dick.

Or in Corey Mays case, a man without a dick.

DaneMcCloud
05-09-2010, 05:19 PM
It depends on the size of the contract over the long haul. I don't care how much they give him up front, but I don't want his contract getting in the way of us going after someone in the future. Salary Cap or not, there's only so much money this team can/will/will be able to spend compared to other clubs.

Bullshit.

There's still an equity split between all 32 teams. Jackson County taxpayers threw in $250 million in renovations which ultimately will benefit the Hunt Family in more concessions and luxury boxes.

Giving a guy $2-$4 million per year when the Chiefs were at the Salary Floor of $88 million in 2009 isn't going to damage the club long term whatsover.

The salary cap is irrelevant and quite honestly, has been since about 1995.

MoreLemonPledge
05-09-2010, 05:39 PM
It has nothing to do with Ray Lewis. Maybe more to do with Ed Reed.

Since we have Ed Reed, Jr., Thomas would be a good pickup for us, right?

I really would like the Chiefs to at least give the guy a hard look. We have one of the poorest linebacker units in the league. Surely he would be of some value to us.

Mr. Arrowhead
05-09-2010, 05:58 PM
just dont let Nick Wright interview him

Marcellus
05-09-2010, 06:25 PM
I'll take a less broke dick than a fully broke dick.

Or in Corey Mays case, a man without a dick.

You don't think Mays can improve? It's not like he is 30. We can't give up on players every year and make headway.

Give dude a chance. He is 25 started 13 games and had 86 tackles.

CoMoChief
05-09-2010, 06:33 PM
Since our second-best pass rusher is Ryan Succop, it seems like we should consider some depth at that function.

ROFL

CoMoChief
05-09-2010, 06:35 PM
So who's our NT?

Mr. Laz
05-09-2010, 06:48 PM
So who's our NT?apparently Shaun Smith and Ron Edwards and they still have Derek Lokey

They also brought in UDFA Garrett Brown(6-2 320 minnesota)

Epic Fail 007
05-09-2010, 06:57 PM
I don't think the Chiefs are creative enough to use Adalius Thomas properly.

thats a stupid comment u realize who our dc is......WAKE UP MCFLY

ClevelandBronco
05-09-2010, 06:57 PM
Yup, because Crennel is a known schlub of a DC. :shake:

Actually, I don't know what to think of Crennel. He did a great job in New England, seemingly, but since Belichick was a DC as well, I just don't know how to separate Crennel's performance and look at it alone.

Crennel went to Cleveland and screwed the pooch 16 ways from Sunday, but who wouldn't have?

This job in K.C. is the one that will prove to me whether he's really Romeo Crennel or just a guy who worked for Belichick.

mcaj22
05-09-2010, 07:00 PM
It has nothing to do with Ray Lewis. Maybe more to do with Ed Reed.

When Adalius was in Baltimore under Rex Ryan, the defense gave a million different looks. They ran the 3-4, the 4-3, the 46. Adalius was a pass rusher but he also played a Safety-like position. I like Romeo, but he's not Rex Ryan. Not even close. Ryan is a mastermind and I think he got a lot more out of Adalius because he knew how to use him.



Seeing how he barely played his first couple years except for special teams because there were better LBers already on the team, it had everything to do with him having Ray Lewis as the MLB. Especially for when he played the corner and dropped back into coverage.

BigMeatballDave
05-09-2010, 07:00 PM
who fucking knows anymore. His asking price cannot be worth what he is going to put out on the field, so we might as well keep the shitter LBers we have now, at least they are cheap.Who gives a shit about cost? There is no cap, and its not my money.

mcaj22
05-09-2010, 07:01 PM
Who gives a shit about cost? There is no cap, and its not my money.

I don't. But the Chiefs front office still clearly does.

Marcellus
05-09-2010, 07:09 PM
Who gives a shit about cost? There is no cap, and its not my money.

Because like $ with everything else, there is only so much to go around. Anybody who thinks $ isn't an issue is naive.

The Chiefs made money last year but not a boat load. Any business can only withstand what the market will bare.

It's kind of like oil, people talk about all the $ oil companies made the last few years. Still just a 3% profit. Most businesses need more than that to be viable.

You see the big $ and everybody assumes it's automatically a winner. Depends where you want to spend the $. Hunt could put $ in a good savings account or bonds and make a bunch of $ with no risk.

It's capital risked vs gain and realistically if it were your $ you may try to invest it differently.

Who cares about the $? Easy to say as a fan.

Count Zarth
05-09-2010, 07:10 PM
You don't think Mays can improve? It's not like he is 30. We can't give up on players every year and make headway.

Give dude a chance. He is 25 started 13 games and had 86 tackles.

And led the league in missed tackles and made zero big plays.

He's a special teams player.

Marcellus
05-09-2010, 07:12 PM
And led the league in missed tackles and made zero big plays.

He's a special teams player.

I had no idea he led the league in missed tackles. Bad sign for LB.

Count Zarth
05-09-2010, 07:19 PM
According to this, he's the WORST inside linebacker in the league.

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=ILB&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

OnTheWarpath58
05-09-2010, 07:20 PM
We have jack fucking shit at LB, so bring him in. Bring anyone in.

This.

He's an upgrade inside or outside.

The Bad Guy
05-09-2010, 07:20 PM
If you watched Corey Mays, you don't need profootballfocus to tell you that he's the worst in the league. He's awful. He's not a building block of any kind.

The Bad Guy
05-09-2010, 07:23 PM
Mays ranked 54 out of 54 and DeMorrio Williams ranked 49th. Our NT position sucks, but if you want to know why teams ran all over us, this is why.

milkman
05-09-2010, 07:23 PM
If you watched Corey Mays, you don't need profootballfocus to tell you that he's the worst in the league. He's awful. He's not a building block of any kind.

Given that peopel around here had to google Darnell Dockett, it's pretty clear they need all teh help they can get to tell anything.

The Bad Guy
05-09-2010, 07:23 PM
What's hilarious is Derrick Johnson is ranked 12th. He has to be on the field this year.

The Bad Guy
05-09-2010, 07:24 PM
Given that peopel around here had to google Darnell Dockett, it's pretty clear they need all teh help they can get to tell anything.

Truth.

Count Zarth
05-09-2010, 07:27 PM
What's hilarious is Derrick Johnson is ranked 12th. He has to be on the field this year.

And if he had been on the field as much as Mays (he only played half the snaps), he'd have missed as many tackles.

OnTheWarpath58
05-09-2010, 07:28 PM
Mays ranked 54 out of 54 and DeMorrio Williams ranked 49th. Our NT position sucks, but if you want to know why teams ran all over us, this is why.

Don't forget that they have Hali rated as the worst OLB against the run.

Yes, the middle sucks, but Hali shouldn't get a pass over 8 sacks a year.

If you're going to be that one dimensional - a huge liability against the run, you better be racking up 14+ sacks a season.

WildTurkey
05-09-2010, 07:35 PM
So who's our NT?

If only it was Cam Thomas... all of our problems would be solved :D

chiefzilla1501
05-09-2010, 07:41 PM
Mays ranked 54 out of 54 and DeMorrio Williams ranked 49th. Our NT position sucks, but if you want to know why teams ran all over us, this is why.

I'm a firm believer that in a Romeo 3-4, the Inside LBs are largely the product of their defensive line. That's why I don't really care about the talent at the ILB position. We talk a lot about "luxury" positions, but that's one where I think it happens to be true. It's nice to have a playmaker there, but you can do just fine without one.

If you get consistent play from the front 3 and a Nose Tackle that can do his job well, the ILB position becomes a lot easier. They're supposed to keep hats off the ILBs and take away the cutback lanes.

Pablo
05-09-2010, 07:43 PM
If only it was Cam Thomas... all of our problems would be solved :DYou must only speak his name in hushed tones.

Count Zarth
05-09-2010, 07:48 PM
I'm a firm believer that in a Romeo 3-4, the Inside LBs are largely the product of their defensive line.

Which is why the Patriots spent a first-round pick on Jerod Mayo? :spock:

RustShack
05-09-2010, 07:57 PM
Which is why the Patriots spent a first-round pick on Jerod Mayo? :spock:

Romeo wasn't their DC then... and their LB production left with Crennel...

Micjones
05-09-2010, 08:17 PM
He's been sitting on the open market for a bit...
Can't imagine his contract demands will be too outrageous.
He'd be an upgrade. Why not?

chiefzilla1501
05-09-2010, 08:31 PM
Which is why the Patriots spent a first-round pick on Jerod Mayo? :spock:

A few things. Mayo was a better prospect going into the draft than McClain. And the Patriots were a much deeper team at the time than the Chiefs are today. But that's the only high profile pick they've used on the position.

In the meantime, they've used Monty Beisel and Junior Seau when he was about 80 years old. While Bruschi was a good LB, I don't think anybody would say he was anything close to all-world. In the Patriots' system, you don't need insanely talented ILBs. You need 5-techniques to keep blockers off of you, a really good Nose Tackle, and shutdown corners. And what the Pats have really been missing lately is some studs at Outside Linebacker. The ILBs are so far down the list of priorities. I'm more worried about the OLB and the Nose Tackle position than I am the ILB.

The Bad Guy
05-09-2010, 08:32 PM
I'm a firm believer that in a Romeo 3-4, the Inside LBs are largely the product of their defensive line. That's why I don't really care about the talent at the ILB position. We talk a lot about "luxury" positions, but that's one where I think it happens to be true. It's nice to have a playmaker there, but you can do just fine without one.

If you get consistent play from the front 3 and a Nose Tackle that can do his job well, the ILB position becomes a lot easier. They're supposed to keep hats off the ILBs and take away the cutback lanes.

Of course it becomes easier. However, when you don't have primo talent like a Ted Washington, you have to make due and Williams and Mays can't cut it without perfect players ahead of them.

The Chiefs can not start either of those scrubs this year. They take horrible angles, can't get off blocks and are easily fooled.

The Bad Guy
05-09-2010, 08:33 PM
A few things. Mayo was a better prospect going into the draft than McClain. And the Patriots were a much deeper team at the time than the Chiefs are today. But that's the only high profile pick they've used on the position.

In the meantime, they've used Monty Beisel and Junior Seau when he was about 80 years old. While Bruschi was a good LB, I don't think anybody would say he was anything close to all-world. In the Patriots' system, you don't need insanely talented ILBs. You need 5-techniques to keep blockers off of you, a really good Nose Tackle, and shutdown corners. And what the Pats have really been missing lately is some studs at Outside Linebacker. The ILBs are so far down the list of priorities. I'm more worried about the OLB and the Nose Tackle position than I am the ILB.

Bruschi was techically sound who took proper angles and made correct reads. He was very instinctive. Mays and Williams have no instincts.

chiefzilla1501
05-09-2010, 08:38 PM
Of course it becomes easier. However, when you don't have primo talent like a Ted Washington, you have to make due and Williams and Mays can't cut it without perfect players ahead of them.

The Chiefs can not start either of those scrubs this year. They take horrible angles, can't get off blocks and are easily fooled.

But I think the point to be made is, this defense desperately needs a Nose Tackle at some point. We can't live without them. We CAN live without studs at ILB. Stud ILBs aren't going to make our horrible Nose Tackle look a whole lot better.

This defense isn't going to be top 10, no matter who we put at the ILB position, unless Shaun Smith plays his position really well. I think that's wishful thinking. So while it sucks that we're stuck with Williams or Mays, I just don't think that an alternative is really going to fix the problem. If I had a wish list for defense, it would easily be: nose tackle, LOLB, and ILB a very distant 3rd and 4th.

Mr. Laz
05-09-2010, 08:50 PM
don't worry ... we have McCluster and Arenas, we don't need no stinkin' NT or ILB's

chiefzilla1501
05-09-2010, 08:59 PM
don't worry ... we have McCluster and Arenas, we don't need no stinkin' NT or ILB's

This wasn't a super bowl team this year anyway. If McCluster works out, I could care less if it takes an extra year to fill in all the blanks for this team.

Mr. Laz
05-09-2010, 09:21 PM
This wasn't a super bowl team this year anyway. If McCluster works out, I could care less if it takes an extra year to fill in all the blanks for this team.
and what is the normal shelf life of a 5'7" 185lb gadget player?

will he still even be alive by the time we are ready to sniff any real winning?

chiefzilla1501
05-09-2010, 09:27 PM
and what is the normal shelf life of a 5'7" 185lb gadget player?

will he still even be alive by the time we are ready to sniff any real winning?

Ironically, you just gave Darren Sproles' dimensions. And he's in his 6th season and doing just fine. The argument is retarded. He handled a big SEC in college as a Running Back. Why are people seriously concerned about his durability as a receiver, where he'll get a hell of a lot less contact?

What's his shelf life? Probably a lot better than a Running Back.

The Bad Guy
05-09-2010, 09:29 PM
and what is the normal shelf life of a 5'7" 185lb gadget player?

will he still even be alive by the time we are ready to sniff any real winning?

Some of you think this is the stone ages and small players can't succeed in the NFL for a long period of time.

What does his height have to do with it? Are you more injury prone if you are 5'7?

The guy is pretty cut up for a "small gadget player".

Wayne Chrebet played 11 years in the NFL despite being only 188 pounds.

chiefzilla1501
05-09-2010, 09:32 PM
Some of you think this is the stone ages and small players can't succeed in the NFL for a long period of time.

What does his height have to do with it? Are you more injury prone if you are 5'7?

The guy is pretty cut up for a "small gadget player".

Wayne Chrebet played 11 years in the NFL despite being only 188 pounds.

Yup. And Chrebet took more punishment at his position than most WRs twice his size take. He was one tough motherfucker. In an age where small, shifty slot receivers like Harvin, Welker, and Desean Jackson are in vogue, I can't believe we're actually acting like this guy is such an unusual size. The only liability is that he can be harder to find in the passing game, particularly on deep patterns. From a durability standpoint, his weight is nothing even close to unusual.

milkman
05-09-2010, 09:45 PM
Yup. And Chrebet took more punishment at his position than most WRs twice his size take. He was one tough mother****er. In an age where small, shifty slot receivers like Harvin, Welker, and Desean Jackson are in vogue, I can't believe we're actually acting like this guy is such an unusual size. The only liability is that he can be harder to find in the passing game, particularly on deep patterns. From a durability standpoint, his weight is nothing even close to unusual.

I think, regardless of others that can be found to be successful at his size, which BTW is smaller than almost any player anyone has named, durability has to be a concern.

However, the bigger issue to me is how many plays is he going to be involved in.

A part time player is not what this team needed.

If he proves he's more than a part time player, then I'm good with him.

DaneMcCloud
05-09-2010, 09:46 PM
don't worry ... we have McCluster and Arenas, we don't need no stinkin' NT or ILB's

So, you believe that the ILB's and NT's available at #36 and #50 were gamechangers?

wazu
05-09-2010, 10:32 PM
So, you believe that the ILB's and NT's available at #36 and #50 were gamechangers?

NT yes, OLB yes. Not ILB.

DaneMcCloud
05-09-2010, 10:33 PM
NT yes, OLB yes. Not ILB.

Who?

Please name the fucking playmaking, game changing outside linebackers and nose tackles available at either #36 or #50.

Because I don't fucking buy it.

Put your ass on the line.

HotRoute
05-09-2010, 10:57 PM
this guy might be over the hill, but i would still like to see him in a chiefs uniform next season.

DBOSHO
05-09-2010, 11:05 PM
You can have all the playmakers you want on offense but it wont matter if the opposing offense scores in 5 plays every drive.

That being said, im warming up to the draft more every day. And i know you cant fix the whole team in 1 year.

chiefzilla1501
05-09-2010, 11:15 PM
You can have all the playmakers you want on offense but it wont matter if the opposing offense scores in 5 plays every drive.

That being said, im warming up to the draft more every day. And i know you cant fix the whole team in 1 year.

And I agree 100% with that. This defense is going to hit some rough patches this season, I think. I'm willing to bet that over half of the people we were screaming for are nothing better than rotational starters at best. I think that through a few drafts, free agency, etc..., we have lots of opportunities to find these kinds of players.

The solution people are suggesting is pigeonholing this team to a select few positions of need. What's most important isn't what position the player fills. What's more important is how much these guys improve our football team. And with McCluster, it's not just about what he produces. It's also about how mismatches could potentially open up opportunities for others.

DBOSHO
05-09-2010, 11:20 PM
I think mccluster is going to DRASTICALLY improve our big play ability. I wouldnt want to be a defense and see charles and mccluster on the field at the same time.

Im hoping after next years draft we can add some linebackers and a nosetackle. Maybe another reciever for when chambers is done, and become a consistent playoff team

Reaper16
05-09-2010, 11:24 PM
And I agree 100% with that. This defense is going to hit some rough patches this season, I think. I'm willing to bet that over half of the people we were screaming for are nothing better than rotational starters at best. I think that through a few drafts, free agency, etc..., we have lots of opportunities to find these kinds of players.

The solution people are suggesting is pigeonholing this team to a select few positions of need. What's most important isn't what position the player fills. What's more important is how much these guys improve our football team. And with McCluster, it's not just about what he produces. It's also about how mismatches could potentially open up opportunities for others.
Just to be clear, scouts universally thought that the 2010 draft was one of the deepest in recent history. But it is your estimation that the depth was an illusion, that rotational starters were masquerading as high quality depth?

chiefzilla1501
05-09-2010, 11:32 PM
Just to be clear, scouts universally thought that the 2010 draft was one of the deepest in recent history. But it is your estimation that the depth was an illusion, that rotational starters were masquerading as high quality depth?

It is your illusion that these guys, who were second rounders this year, many of whom would have been second rounders in an average year or barely first rounders, are anything more than either very high upside players with significant risk or low-ceiling players with a little less risk or good players at positions of low positional value.

Misi, Washington, Kindle, Cody, Tate... These are all guys we're upset about taking and all of them have very good reasons for being in the second round. All of them have significant limiting flaws in their game.

And given that NOBODY outside of KC believes McCluster was a reach, then he falls into that category too.

-King-
05-10-2010, 12:21 AM
You can have all the playmakers you want on offense but it wont matter if the opposing offense scores in 5 plays every drive.

That being said, im warming up to the draft more every day. And i know you cant fix the whole team in 1 year.

You can have all the NTs and ILBs you want on defense, but it won't matter if the offense can't score a single fucking point.

DaneMcCloud
05-10-2010, 12:29 AM
Just to be clear, scouts universally thought that the 2010 draft was one of the deepest in recent history. But it is your estimation that the depth was an illusion, that rotational starters were masquerading as high quality depth?

In what round what the last high impact inside linebacker and nose tackle taken?

And in how many years was this repeated?

salame
05-10-2010, 12:45 AM
Who?

Please name the ****ing playmaking, game changing outside linebackers and nose tackles available at either #36 or #50.

Because I don't ****ing buy it.

Put your ass on the line.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/unc/sports/m-footbl/auto_action/2514179.jpeg

duh

bowener
05-10-2010, 12:55 AM
I think, regardless of others that can be found to be successful at his size, which BTW is smaller than almost any player anyone has named, durability has to be a concern.

However, the bigger issue to me is how many plays is he going to be involved in.

A part time player is not what this team needed.

If he proves he's more than a part time player, then I'm good with him.

How many plays is wes welker involved in? I would guess something slightly fewer than that.

jAZ
05-10-2010, 02:05 AM
Based on this report, I'd bet we don't touch Thomas. We put a lot of effort into building a team of good character guys. How would we then go on to sign a guy who was cut from NE largely for being no so much of a good character guy?

http://www.nesn.com/2010/05/releasing-adalius-thomas-ranks-as-five-best-offseason-moves-for-afc-east.html

4. Patriots release Adalius Thomas
It might be the most symbolic move of New England's great offseason tradition, as the organization has refocused its efforts to add quality locker room characters. Thomas was popular with his teammates, but he and Bill Belichick could no longer work together. The Patriots have added some really good people this offseason, including wide receivers Torry Holt and David Patten, tight end Alge Crumpler and defensive lineman Damione Lewis to go along with the good characters they found in the draft. It's a philosophy that worked earlier in the decade, and the Patriots have gone back to their roots.

The Bad Guy
05-10-2010, 04:59 AM
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/unc/sports/m-footbl/auto_action/2514179.jpeg

duh

You are by far the creepiest poster ever.

tymania
05-10-2010, 06:53 AM
I don't think the Chiefs are creative enough to use Adalius Thomas properly.

and you know this how? Crennel hasnt even coached a game for us yet

JASONSAUTO
05-10-2010, 07:03 AM
You are by far the creepiest poster ever.

this TOTALLY this

DBOSHO
05-10-2010, 07:52 AM
You can have all the NTs and ILBs you want on defense, but it won't matter if the offense can't score a single ****ing point.

Agreed, but i think it was clearly obvious which side of the ball was weaker last year.

Ralphy Boy
05-10-2010, 08:49 AM
And if he had been on the field as much as Mays (he only played half the snaps), he'd have missed as many tackles.

Considering we took two backups in the 2nd round, I'm sure we must be just fine at the LB position.

Don't forget that they have Hali rated as the worst OLB against the run.

Yes, the middle sucks, but Hali shouldn't get a pass over 8 sacks a year.

If you're going to be that one dimensional - a huge liability against the run, you better be racking up 14+ sacks a season.

This


If only it was Cam Thomas... all of our problems would be solved :D

aka Triplefattgoose. They wouldn't be solved but they'd be much better off with a 6'4" 330 23 year old than the Ron Edwards Memorial Freeway and a vet, coming off injury, who is on his 9th team in 7 seasons.

I'm guessing that Shaun Smith is the spawn of Zeus and Oprah for them to have passed on taking a NT in the draft. Perhaps the rest of the league just didn't know it and Pioli will win Executive of the Millenium for finding him and reviving his career. Most notably the Las Vegas Locomotives where he played with former KC greats Jeremy Parquet, Samie Parker and ironically Gary Stills.



If you get consistent play from the front 3 and a Nose Tackle that can do his job well, the ILB position becomes a lot easier.

Well then we are screwed.


don't worry ... we have McCluster and Arenas, we don't need no stinkin' NT or ILB's

:eek:

BossChief
05-10-2010, 08:51 AM
Don't forget that they have Hali rated as the worst OLB against the run.

Yes, the middle sucks, but Hali shouldn't get a pass over 8 sacks a year.

If you're going to be that one dimensional - a huge liability against the run, you better be racking up 14+ sacks a season.

Oh, just nevermind the FACT that he was #2 in the NFL overall for his position in quarterback pressures on a team with absolutely no pass rush presence from ANYONE ELSE. Oh yeah, and in 2008 he was #2 in the NFL overall in pressures as a DE as well. On a bad team, you have to go beyond sacks to judge a pass rusher.

Prediction for Hali: he will have a streak of 5 or more years with at least 10-11 sacks once we have a true NT and Studabaker is starting.

I also expect him to start getting better against the run with our new strength guru working with him.

Ralphy Boy
05-10-2010, 09:08 AM
Prediction for Hali: he will have a streak of 5 or more years with at least 10-11 sacks once we have a true NT and Studabaker is starting.

I also expect him to start getting better against the run with our new strength guru working with him.


And yet we failed again this offseason to address the NT position.

BossChief
05-10-2010, 09:15 AM
And yet we failed again this offseason to address the NT position.

Depends on how you view Shaun Smith, it seems Romeo views him differently than we do, going off how we drafted. I dont think he is "the guy", but Im not gonna rule him out either. He is a big upgrade over what we had even if he only plays a rotational role. Ron Edwards got worn down because he was all we had whatsoever, at the very least it keeps our NTs fresh late in games.

Any NT we drafted was gonna have a long learning curve anyway, Im not sure anyone we could have drafted would have had as much impact as Smith might have next year. He is only 28 as well, so if he plays well we might not have as demanding a need in coming years.

Ralphy Boy
05-10-2010, 09:30 AM
Depends on how you view Shaun Smith, it seems Romeo views him differently than we do, going off how we drafted. I dont think he is "the guy", but Im not gonna rule him out either. He is a big upgrade over what we had even if he only plays a rotational role. Ron Edwards got worn down because he was all we had whatsoever, at the very least it keeps our NTs fresh late in games.

Any NT we drafted was gonna have a long learning curve anyway, Im not sure anyone we could have drafted would have had as much impact as Smith might have next year. He is only 28 as well, so if he plays well we might not have as demanding a need in coming years.

See post #111

RedThat
05-10-2010, 10:31 AM
I agree. I don't like both Mays and Williams.

But Im not for signing Adalius Thomas either.

I think they should go with Belcher in the middle. I'd give him a shot. And Id rather see them play DJ this year. I agree he misses a lot of tackles, but at least he has playmaking ability which is better than Mays who misses tackles and has no playmaking ability whatsoever.

Im just going with the lesser of the two evils.

chiefzilla1501
05-10-2010, 03:33 PM
Considering we took two backups in the 2nd round, I'm sure we must be just fine at the LB position.
You have an extremely loose definition of "backup" then. There's Matt Guttierez, and then there's Darren Sproles. Nobody would call Sproles a backup.

aka Triplefattgoose. They wouldn't be solved but they'd be much better off with a 6'4" 330 23 year old than the Ron Edwards Memorial Freeway and a vet, coming off injury, who is on his 9th team in 7 seasons.
Eventually. Why does it have to happen today? I know we want to win now, but that means that you walk into a draft pick with tunnel vision?

I'm guessing that Shaun Smith is the spawn of Zeus and Oprah for them to have passed on taking a NT in the draft. Perhaps the rest of the league just didn't know it and Pioli will win Executive of the Millenium for finding him and reviving his career. Most notably the Las Vegas Locomotives where he played with former KC greats Jeremy Parquet, Samie Parker and ironically Gary Stills.
Or maybe they drafted the guy they thought would fit best as opposed to drafting for need. Didn't we learn this 1000 times when Vermeil walked into almost every draft taking a DT in the second round?

Well then we are screwed.

:eek:
We're only screwed if you had the ridiculous mindset that we were a playoff team walking into this season. I just want to see this football team improve significantly and to show very clear signs of progress. And I think it's hard to dispute that we got significantly better on offense and got better on defense, even if there are still some visible holes there.

chiefzilla1501
05-10-2010, 03:34 PM
Depends on how you view Shaun Smith, it seems Romeo views him differently than we do, going off how we drafted. I dont think he is "the guy", but Im not gonna rule him out either. He is a big upgrade over what we had even if he only plays a rotational role. Ron Edwards got worn down because he was all we had whatsoever, at the very least it keeps our NTs fresh late in games.

Any NT we drafted was gonna have a long learning curve anyway, Im not sure anyone we could have drafted would have had as much impact as Smith might have next year. He is only 28 as well, so if he plays well we might not have as demanding a need in coming years.

Neither of them are the answer. They're probably below average stopgaps. It's an improvement over last year. But let's be real--our interior D is still going to struggle this season. Probably.

DaneMcCloud
05-10-2010, 04:18 PM
And yet we failed again this offseason to address the NT position.

Really?

Hmmm, that's odd because I thought I read somewhere that the Chiefs signed Shaun Smith and an UDFA from Minnesota to compete for the NT position.

I guess I was wrong.

Either that or you're so fucking butthurt over the Chiefs not taking the players you wanted that you're going to piss and moan and cry like a bitch until 2011, when again it'll be likely that they don't take the players you wanted.

DaneMcCloud
05-10-2010, 04:20 PM
Neither of them are the answer. They're probably below average stopgaps. It's an improvement over last year. But let's be real--our interior D is still going to struggle this season. Probably.

Yeah, they're probably going to struggle.

But on a team as talent depleted as the Chiefs, who were in desperate need of offensive playmakers, they went the other direction.

I truly wish people would fucking get it over it. It's done.

Time to move on.

WildTurkey
05-10-2010, 04:23 PM
You are by far the creepiest poster ever.

By Far, and it's not even close

BossChief
05-10-2010, 04:28 PM
Neither of them are the answer. They're probably below average stopgaps. It's an improvement over last year. But let's be real--our interior D is still going to struggle this season. Probably.

water = wet

Smith > Lokey/Smith/Edwards

thats sad, but true.

Ralphy Boy
05-10-2010, 04:28 PM
You have an extremely loose definition of "backup" then. There's Matt Guttierez, and then there's Darren Sproles. Nobody would call Sproles a backup.


Eventually. Why does it have to happen today? I know we want to win now, but that means that you walk into a draft pick with tunnel vision?


Or maybe they drafted the guy they thought would fit best as opposed to drafting for need. Didn't we learn this 1000 times when Vermeil walked into almost every draft taking a DT in the second round?


We're only screwed if you had the ridiculous mindset that we were a playoff team walking into this season. I just want to see this football team improve significantly and to show very clear signs of progress. And I think it's hard to dispute that we got significantly better on offense and got better on defense, even if there are still some visible holes there.

Oh come on.

Regarding Sproles, I'll wait to put either Arenas or McCluster on his level. Also, Sproles was also a 4th round draft pick for a team that got 3 starters with their first 3 picks before him.

As far as the NT position, this is just silly. Can you honestly try to justify the pick of TJ last year, to fill the coveted 5 tech spot, and at the same time make any sense out of completely neglecting the NT position 2 years in a row?

We ARE screwed, this season, specifically regarding your statement of: If you get consistent play from the front 3 and a Nose Tackle that can do his job well, the ILB position becomes a lot easier. We have crap ILB's and crap NT's. I don't know how to make the meaning of my words any more clear.

WildTurkey
05-10-2010, 04:32 PM
Oh come on.

Regarding Sproles, I'll wait to put either Arenas or McCluster on his level. Also, Sproles was also a 4th round draft pick for a team that got 3 starters with their first 3 picks before him.

As far as the NT position, this is just silly. Can you honestly try to justify the pick of TJ last year, to fill the coveted 5 tech spot, and at the same time make any sense out of completely neglecting the NT position 2 years in a row?

We ARE screwed, this season, specifically regarding your statement of: We have crap ILB's and crap NT's. I don't know how to make the meaning of my words any more clear.

And Yet you're ready to crown Cam Thomas as the next Vince Wilfork.... we chose playmakers over Dlineman, it happened Get Over it

http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/ff345/NDGeo/edwards_herman0108.jpg

Pioli Zombie
05-10-2010, 04:39 PM
"The Chiefs should do whatever the Eagles and Packers do. They are the best in the business"
- Drafturbators

WildTurkey
05-10-2010, 04:41 PM
"The Chiefs should do whatever the Eagles and Packers do. They are the best in the business"
- Drafturbators

You forgot the Ravens ;)

Pablo
05-10-2010, 04:44 PM
Either that or you're so ****ing butthurt over the Chiefs not taking the players you wanted that you're going to piss and moan and cry like a bitch until 2011, when again it'll be likely that they don't take the players you wanted.Cam Sanchez syndrome.

DaneMcCloud
05-10-2010, 04:48 PM
Cam Sanchez syndrome.

I disagree.

People that wanted the Chiefs to take Sanchez last year wanted him because he represented a possible franchise QB, something the Chiefs haven't tried to develop since 1983.

This whole Cam Thomas/Sergio Kindle/Cody bullshit is just that: Bullshit.

The people that are complaining the loudest don't like the McCluster and Arenas choices because THEY FEEL that the Chiefs would have been better off with a fucking ILB (who has the SAME WEAKNESSES of current ILB's on the roster) and a fatfuck NT with questionable desire.

It's fucking stupid.

RustShack
05-10-2010, 04:52 PM
People think high rookies are great no matter how they compare to other people just because they are rookies. Generally Chiefs fans don't care about getting talent, they just like wasting high picks on position of need. Irocially they will be the first ones to love the shit out of McCLuster and Arenas when they are scoring TD's and act like they were the best picks ever.

RustShack
05-10-2010, 04:53 PM
They are also the first to hate the rookies they wanted the first year because they don't realize it takes time for most players to develop.

Ralphy Boy
05-10-2010, 05:23 PM
Really?

Hmmm, that's odd because I thought I read somewhere that the Chiefs signed Shaun Smith and an UDFA from Minnesota to compete for the NT position.

I guess I was wrong.

Either that or you're so ****ing butthurt over the Chiefs not taking the players you wanted that you're going to piss and moan and cry like a bitch until 2011, when again it'll be likely that they don't take the players you wanted.

Seriously? Signing Shaun Smith and a UDFA are what you are using to make a point? I'd love it if either of them were actually capable of filling the spot. Smith has played for 9 teams in 7 seasons. Think about that. Now try to, as I said earlier, make any sense out of taking TJ at 3 overall but neglecting the NT position two years in a row.

And Yet you're ready to crown Cam Thomas as the next Vince Wilfork.... we chose playmakers over Dlineman, it happened Get Over it



Who is crowning him? Do I think he will be better for the Chargers than Kendrick Lewis will be for us? Your damn right I do.

We basically have a vacancy sign hanging on our NT position and we finished #31 against the run. Yes I thought the position should have been addressed.

We had 32 sacks in two seasons. Do I think our pass rush should have been addressed via the draft with a player like Kindle over McCluster? Your damn right I do and thats not taking anything away from McCluster.

"The Chiefs should do whatever the Eagles and Packers do. They are the best in the business"
- Drafturbators

I for one have never been a big fan of the Packers drafts, but yes the Eagles do a much better job. So does, as someone else mentioned, the Ravens. So do the Chargers and many other teams.

People think high rookies are great no matter how they compare to other people just because they are rookies. Generally Chiefs fans don't care about getting talent, they just like wasting high picks on position of need. Irocially they will be the first ones to love the shit out of McCLuster and Arenas when they are scoring TD's and act like they were the best picks ever.

Of course we will love them if they do well, they are Chiefs. I won't be happy if McCluster is putting up 200 all purpose yards BUT our defense can't stop anyone.



I've been a fairly big supporter of Cassel, and I have said countless times that he needs more weapons. I'm happy he got them and you could argue that 4 of our first 5 picks were all made to help him. I get that Pioli was trying to protect the investment he made in Cassel. What I don't get is that we have been one of the worst teams in the league against the run and in pass rush for 2 years running and have done almost nothing to address those glaring needs.

DaneMcCloud
05-10-2010, 05:25 PM
Seriously? Signing Shaun Smith and a UDFA are what you are using to make a point? I'd love it if either of them were actually capable of filling the spot. Smith has played for 9 teams in 7 seasons. Think about that. Now try to, as I said earlier, make any sense out of taking TJ at 3 overall but neglecting the NT position two years in a row.



Who is crowning him? Do I think he will be better for the Chargers than Kendrick Lewis will be for us? Your damn right I do.

We basically have a vacancy sign hanging on our NT position and we finished #31 against the run. Yes I thought the position should have been addressed.

We had 32 sacks in two seasons. Do I think our pass rush should have been addressed via the draft with a player like Kindle over McCluster? Your damn right I do and thats not taking anything away from McCluster.



I for one have never been a big fan of the Packers drafts, but yes the Eagles do a much better job. So does, as someone else mentioned, the Ravens. So do the Chargers and many other teams.



Of course we will love them if they do well, they are Chiefs. I won't be happy if McCluster is putting up 200 all purpose yards BUT our defense can't stop anyone.



I've been a fairly big supporter of Cassel, and I have said countless times that he needs more weapons. I'm happy he got them and you could argue that 4 of our first 5 picks were all made to help him. I get that Pioli was trying to protect the investment he made in Cassel. What I don't get is that we have been one of the worst teams in the league against the run and in pass rush for 2 years running and have done almost nothing to address those glaring needs.

You must have one sore fucking ass

Pestilence
05-10-2010, 05:38 PM
don't worry ... we have McCluster and Arenas, we don't need no stinkin' NT or ILB's

You bitch...........

A LOT.

Ralphy Boy
05-10-2010, 05:41 PM
I disagree.

People that wanted the Chiefs to take Sanchez last year wanted him because he represented a possible franchise QB, something the Chiefs haven't tried to develop since 1983.

This whole Cam Thomas/Sergio Kindle/Cody bullshit is just that: Bullshit.

The people that are complaining the loudest don't like the McCluster and Arenas choices because THEY FEEL that the Chiefs would have been better off with a ****ing ILB (who has the SAME WEAKNESSES of current ILB's on the roster) and a fat**** NT with questionable desire.

It's ****ing stupid.

Hypocrite. The people who can't get over the Sanchez pick are just as much of a joke as anyone else and need to get over it.

The people that are complaining the loudest don't like Cassel because THEY FEEL that the Chiefs would have been better off with a ****ing QB who has the SAME WEAKNESSES of current QB's on the roster.

It's ****ing stupid.

Sanchez came out as an underclassman after he started 16 games in college, so Pioli took the QB that had started 15 games in the NFL for him and played at, what he thought was, a very high level. So rather than spend a 1st on him, he spent a 2nd on a QB he knew. Its over and done. Cassel is the QB, sink or swim.

Ralphy Boy
05-10-2010, 05:42 PM
You must have one sore ****ing ass

Probably not as sore as your vagina.

DaneMcCloud
05-10-2010, 05:44 PM
Hypocrite. The people who can't get over the Sanchez pick are just as much of a joke as anyone else and need to get over it.

The people that are complaining the loudest don't like Cassel because THEY FEEL that the Chiefs would have been better off with a ****ing QB who has the SAME WEAKNESSES of current QB's on the roster.

It's ****ing stupid.

Sanchez came out as an underclassman after he started 16 games in college, so Pioli took the QB that had started 15 games in the NFL for him and played at, what he thought was, a very high level. So rather than spend a 1st on him, he spent a 2nd on a QB he knew. Its over and done. Cassel is the QB, sink or swim.

Bullfucking shit.

Cassel wasn't and isn't a Franchise QB and everyone outside of Todd Haley and Scott Pioli knew it.

You're complaining about not taking players with serious issues, like Cody and Misi and Cam Thomas.

And furthermore, I've stated REPEATEDLY that IF the Chiefs had taken a playmaker with the #3 overall pick, I'd have been happy with their selection last year. But they did not.

You on the other hand, are fucking butthurt because the Chiefs chose PLAYMAKERS over players that you personally wanted (NT, ILB).

You're a fucking crybaby with a tender ass.

The NFL is about PLAYMAKERS, plain and simple. Not nose tackles and fucking inside linebackers.

LMAO

DeezNutz
05-10-2010, 05:45 PM
ILB? Kindle? What?

2A has potential if he's a viable WR. 2B was dumb as ****, and there's little else to say about it.

But life goes on.

DaneMcCloud
05-10-2010, 05:51 PM
ILB? Kindle? What?

2A has potential if he's a viable WR. 2B was dumb as ****, and there's little else to say about it.

But life goes on.

I disagree.

Arenas has the potential to be a game and momentum changer. Terrance Cody is a fatfuck with motivation issues which IMO, indicated that he couldn't be trusted with money.

Koa Misi's scouting report read like Corey Mays V2. Plays the run well, is poor against the pass and moved up due to his workout, not because he's an instinctive player.

Kindle has medical issues. The Chiefs can't take those kinds of chances this year.

And Cam Thomas, Savior of the Universe?

LMAO

the Talking Can
05-10-2010, 05:56 PM
the ravens drafted kindle..which justifies the pick in the exact same way we're to believe that Philly's desire to draft McCluster was reason enough to pick him....

and we traded up for a player with more injury issues than kindle..so we obviously can take that risk this year...


and when in the **** did it become law that this draft was beyond criticism?


jesus tits the hootie-ization of this ****ing bizarre....

DeezNutz
05-10-2010, 05:57 PM
I disagree.

Arenas has the potential to be a game and momentum changer. Terrance Cody is a fat**** with motivation issues which IMO, indicated that he couldn't be trusted with money.

Koa Misi's scouting report read like Corey Mays V2. Plays the run well, is poor against the pass and moved up due to his workout, not because he's an instinctive player.

Kindle has medical issues. The Chiefs can't take those kinds of chances this year.

And Cam Thomas, Savior of the Universe?

LMAO

Why? This is a long-term risk/reward situation. I'd rather take a chance on a first-round talent at rush backer than a return man.

And we're talking about second-round money, so you have to be able to trust coaches to motivate.

Ralphy Boy
05-10-2010, 05:59 PM
Bull****ing shit.

Cassel wasn't and isn't a Franchise QB and everyone outside of Todd Haley and Scott Pioli knew it.

You're complaining about not taking players with serious issues, like Cody and Misi and Cam Thomas.

And furthermore, I've stated REPEATEDLY that IF the Chiefs had taken a playmaker with the #3 overall pick, I'd have been happy with their selection last year. But they did not.

You on the other hand, are ****ing butthurt because the Chiefs chose PLAYMAKERS over players that you personally wanted (NT, ILB).

You're a ****ing crybaby with a tender ass.

The NFL is about PLAYMAKERS, plain and simple. Not nose tackles and ****ing inside linebackers.

LMAO

What ILB did I ever say I wanted? Sean Lee, Pat Angerer & Jamar Chaney are the only ones I can recall EVER saying I wanted prior to the draft and I have hardly, if at all, mentioned any of them since. The only reference I made to any ILB in this thread was when someone said that "with a good NT, you can get by with decent ILB's". I said we were screwed because we had neither.

When did I say that I wanted Cody or Misi? I didn't.

I wanted a NT and a pass rusher because we suck against the run and getting to the QB.

Defense is about getting to the QB and stopping the run and we can't do either. We simply cannot win without being able to play good defense and in case you've somehow missed the last 10 years of KC football, we don't do either.

DaneMcCloud
05-10-2010, 06:03 PM
Why? This is a long-term risk/reward situation. I'd rather take a chance on a first-round talent at rush backer than a return man.

And we're talking about second-round money, so you have to be able to trust coaches to motivate.

Kindle dropped due his injury concern. Do you really think the Chiefs would have passed on him if he was completely healthy and without any medical concerns?

Would he even had been there in the mid-second without a legitimate issue?

And I'm sorry, if you have to "motivate" a player to condition properly once they're in the NFL, they're not the guy I want on my team. And Cody's a mess.

The Ravens can afford to take on guys like Kindle and Cody. The Chiefs can't and absolutely need to get production from each and every pick if they're to ascend this season.

Ralphy Boy
05-10-2010, 06:04 PM
Oh and Dane, what is this fascination you have with my ass? I believe that is 3 posts in less than 30 minutes where you have gone there. I don't go that way.

DaneMcCloud
05-10-2010, 06:04 PM
Oh and Dane, what is this fascination you have with my ass? I believe that is 3 posts in less than 30 minutes where you have gone there. I don't go that way.

Because you've been fucking butthurt since draft day.

You may need to have a doctor look at that for you.

chiefzilla1501
05-10-2010, 06:07 PM
the ravens drafted kindle..which justifies the pick in the exact same way we're to believe that Philly's desire to draft McCluster was reason enough to pick him....

and we traded up for a player with more injury issues than kindle..so we obviously can take that risk this year...


and when in the **** did it become law that this draft was beyond criticism?


jesus tits the hootie-ization of this ****ing bizarre....

Yet another perfect example of a hypocritical argument.

People keep claiming that McCluster was a reach even though Philly, an outstanding drafting team, was expected to take him on the very next pick. But people say that doesn't count.

Yet on the flip side, those same people say the Chiefs fucked up because they didn't take Kindle even though Baltimore, also an outstanding drafting team, took him.

Interesting.

And by the way, the reason the Ravens can take a guy like Kindle is because they have a lot more incentive to win now. They don't care too much if his injury issues make him a liability a few years from now.

BossChief
05-10-2010, 06:08 PM
Im glad that we didnt draft for need strictly, that is a plan that is always flawed. We went for players that change games and create matchup problems.

"the league is changing to a passing league and you need playmakers"

I dont know how many times I heard that or something similar to it before the draft, we drafted a playmaking nickle, a playmaking slot guy and a playmaking safety.

Ralphy Boy
05-10-2010, 06:08 PM
The Ravens can afford to take on guys like Kindle and Cody. The Chiefs can't and absolutely need to get production from each and every pick if they're to ascend this season.

Please define "production".

Call me crazy but I hope that a 2nd rounder will be an eventual starter.

DaneMcCloud
05-10-2010, 06:10 PM
Please define "production".

Call me crazy but I hope that a 2nd rounder will be an eventual starter.

Cody is risk due to his motivation and conditioning, Kindle is a medical risk.

chiefzilla1501
05-10-2010, 06:12 PM
Yeah, they're probably going to struggle.

But on a team as talent depleted as the Chiefs, who were in desperate need of offensive playmakers, they went the other direction.

I truly wish people would ****ing get it over it. It's done.

Time to move on.

Well, like I said. I would have loved for the Chiefs to have fixed everything this season. It wasn't going to happen. They prioritized offense over defense. That's fine with me. All I care about is getting much better this season vs. last season. And I think we definitely did that.

Are we there yet? No, of course not. Did we take major steps in the right direction? If the picks are as good as we think they are, then yes, we definitely did. I don't know why people are so butthurt that we didn't draft for need.

DBOSHO
05-10-2010, 06:15 PM
Arenas better take about 6 returns to the house and set us up at the 40 every time to justify his pick.

DeezNutz
05-10-2010, 06:16 PM
Yet another perfect example of a hypocritical argument.

People keep claiming that McCluster was a reach even though Philly, an outstanding drafting team, was expected to take him on the very next pick. But people say that doesn't count.

Yet on the flip side, those same people say the Chiefs ****ed up because they didn't take Kindle even though Baltimore, also an outstanding drafting team, took him.

Interesting.

And by the way, the reason the Ravens can take a guy like Kindle is because they have a lot more incentive to win now. They don't care too much if his injury issues make him a liability a few years from now.

Hypocritical? Meanwhile you're arguing based on hypotheticals.

The bottom line for me is that I'd like to have taken a chance for a #2 WR or try to do something really goofy, like improve the pass rush or play a 34 with a NT.

DaneMcCloud
05-10-2010, 06:16 PM
Arenas better take about 6 returns to the house and set us up at the 40 every time to justify his pick.

Are you declaring that he'll be ineffective as nickel back?

Ralphy Boy
05-10-2010, 06:16 PM
Yet another perfect example of a hypocritical argument.

People keep claiming that McCluster was a reach even though Philly, an outstanding drafting team, was expected to take him on the very next pick. But people say that doesn't count.

Yet on the flip side, those same people say the Chiefs ****ed up because they didn't take Kindle even though Baltimore, also an outstanding drafting team, took him.

Interesting.

And by the way, the reason the Ravens can take a guy like Kindle is because they have a lot more incentive to win now. They don't care too much if his injury issues make him a liability a few years from now.

BS. I would really like to see some more info on the supposed "Philly was going to draft him" crap. EVERYONE thought they were moving up in the first to take Earl Thomas but they didn't, they took Graham in spite of having a HUGE hole to fill at safety ever since Dawkins left, so they took the safety they needed in Nate Allen with their 2nd rounder.


I dont know how many times I heard that or something similar to it before the draft, we drafted a playmaking nickle, a playmaking slot guy and a playmaking safety.

Awesome. We took a slot guy and a nickle. Two non-starters in round 2. Fanfrickingtastic!

Then we followed that up by TRADING UP to get a injury prone TE. We rock.

DaneMcCloud
05-10-2010, 06:17 PM
BS. I would really like to see some more info on the supposed "Philly was going to draft him" crap. EVERYONE thought they were moving up in the first to take Earl Thomas but they didn't, they took Graham in spite of having a HUGE hole to fill at safety ever since Dawkins left, so they took the safety they needed in Nate Allen with their 2nd rounder.



Awesome. We took a slot guy and a nickle. Two non-starters in round 2. Fanfrickingtastic!

Then we followed that up by TRADING UP to get a injury prone TE. We rock.

So you're just pissed they didn't take the players YOU wanted.

Get over it.

chiefzilla1501
05-10-2010, 06:18 PM
Arenas better take about 6 returns to the house and set us up at the 40 every time to justify his pick.

People set some ridiculously high standards for a low second round pick.

About a handful of second rounders make the pro bowl, most of them in the top of the second.

If Arenas is a very good returner and a very good nickel back, I wouldn't say it's a great pick, but it's certainly not a bad pick.

Welcome to the new reality. Nickel backs are on the field, in many games, 50% of the snaps.

DeezNutz
05-10-2010, 06:19 PM
So you're just pissed they didn't take the players YOU wanted.

Get over it.

I was pissed because I thought the draft philosophy was, at times, flawed.

It had nothing to do with specific players I wanted.

chiefzilla1501
05-10-2010, 06:21 PM
Hypocritical? Meanwhile you're arguing based on hypotheticals.

The bottom line for me is that I'd like to have taken a chance for a #2 WR or try to do something really goofy, like improve the pass rush or play a 34 with a NT.

It's not just a wild stab in the dark.

The "hypothetical" was created by a guy extremely connected to the Eagles' organization. If Palaontonio said the Eagles were taking McCluster, they most likely would have.

And based on what Gosselin says, perhaps the most connected draft guy in the biz, McCluster was the #3 WR (and/or #3 RB) on a lot of teams' boards. So a lot of teams disagree that McCluster is less valuable or a "goofy" pick. If we're talking receivers, it sounds like he was slotted just right.

BossChief
05-10-2010, 06:22 PM
I cant believe how much backpeddling and whining there is over this draft.

The only place that didnt love this draft for us is a few guys on CP.

Thats it.

Just about EVERYONE else thought it was a homerun.

but, whatever.

Time will tell who has egg on their face.

DeezNutz
05-10-2010, 06:23 PM
It's not just a wild stab in the dark.

The "hypothetical" was created by a guy extremely connected to the Eagles' organization. If Palaontonio said the Eagles were taking McCluster, they most likely would have.

And based on what Gosselin says, perhaps the most connected draft guy in the biz, McCluster was the #3 WR (and/or #3 RB) on a lot of teams' boards. So a lot of teams disagree that McCluster is less valuable or a "goofy" pick. If we're talking receivers, it sounds like he was slotted just right.

Great. If he was the #3 on a lot of teams' boards, we should reasonably expect him to have the potential to develop into a #2 WR.

beach tribe
05-10-2010, 06:23 PM
Im glad that we didnt draft for need strictly, that is a plan that is always flawed. We went for players that change games and create matchup problems.

"the league is changing to a passing league and you need playmakers"

I dont know how many times I heard that or something similar to it before the draft, we drafted a playmaking nickle, a playmaking slot guy and a playmaking safety.

Yup. I am an advocate of BPA, and it seems as though Pioli & co.stuck to the BPA plan this year. Seems like he stuck to his board, and did not reach because of need. That's how you end up with the best roster possible when all is said, and done.
Furthermore, call me crazy, but I think Arenas is going to end up taking a lot of snaps away from Carr in the base D, and sliding inside in the .05, regardless of what has been said. Sure, if we play a team with an over sized WR, they will probably stick Carr on him, but I'm betting Arenas sees plenty of action on the outside. I think he is a very comparable DB to Flowers, and has some decent cover skills, and probably much better man skills than Carr.

Sometimes need has to factor into it, but drafting for need is how you end up with guys like Ryan Sims.

chiefzilla1501
05-10-2010, 06:24 PM
BS. I would really like to see some more info on the supposed "Philly was going to draft him" crap. EVERYONE thought they were moving up in the first to take Earl Thomas but they didn't, they took Graham in spite of having a HUGE hole to fill at safety ever since Dawkins left, so they took the safety they needed in Nate Allen with their 2nd rounder.
Who's "everyone"? Sources like Adam Schefter? There's a different between a team like the Eagles sending a smokescreen early in the game, and a team like the Eagles telling their most connected media source AFTER THE FACT he was the guy they were going to take. Chiefs' fans are the only fans in the entire country who thinks McCluster was a reach. That's what's comical.

Awesome. We took a slot guy and a nickle. Two non-starters in round 2. Fanfrickingtastic!

Then we followed that up by TRADING UP to get a injury prone TE. We rock.
What the **** is the definition of a "non-starter"? Stop acting like this is going to be Matt ****ing Guttierez. These are players who are going to be on the field more than half of the game.

DeezNutz
05-10-2010, 06:24 PM
I cant believe how much backpeddling and whining there is over this draft.

The only place that didnt love this draft for us is a few guys on CP.

Thats it.

Just about EVERYONE else thought it was a homerun.

And Pioli is the #2 talent evaluator in the NFL.

Hey, I'm skeptical. The Chiefs went in a direction I would not have gone. Ok, no problem. Pioli just needs to be right.

DaneMcCloud
05-10-2010, 06:24 PM
I was pissed because I thought the draft philosophy was, at times, flawed.

It had nothing to do with specific players I wanted.

Personally, I thought the draft was outstanding.

They collected a bunch of potential playmakers. I'll take that any day of the week over guys that are "role players" like TyJack, Magee, etc.

I also believe it's far too soon to call it a career for guys like Mays, Belcher, Walters and Studebaker. I think Belcher and Studebaker have a chance to make a real impact this year.

Furthermore, drafting an outside linebacker and a nose tackle would leave the Chiefs perilously thin at game-changing, offensive playmakers (and yes, I consider Arenas to be an offensive player).

DeezNutz
05-10-2010, 06:25 PM
Personally, I thought the draft was outstanding.

They collected a bunch of potential playmakers. I'll take that any day of the week over guys that are "role players" like TyJack, Magee, etc.

I also believe it's far too soon to call it a career for guys like Mays, Belcher, Walters and Studebaker. I think Belcher and Studebaker have a chance to make a real impact this year.

Furthermore, drafting an outside linebacker and a nose tackle would leave the Chiefs perilously thin at game-changing, offensive playmakers (and yes, I consider Arenas to be an offensive player).

We'll see if either of our second rounders end up being game-changing players. I have doubts.

DaneMcCloud
05-10-2010, 06:26 PM
We'll see if either of our second rounders end up being game-changing players. I have doubts.

And I have doubts that Cody, Lee, or Kindle would have made any impact.

:D

DBOSHO
05-10-2010, 06:27 PM
Are you declaring that he'll be ineffective as nickel back?

Im declaring that using a second rd pick, with the major holes that this team has, on a nickle corner/pr is just a tad silly.

Ive said multiple times that i realize that the team cannot be fixed with 1 draft, and ill be happy with the arenas pick if he gets a couple sacks, a pick or 2, and can set us up in good field position, but whos going to throw the ball at us when they know they can get 6 yards a pop running the ball every down?

Ralphy Boy
05-10-2010, 06:28 PM
So you're just pissed they didn't take the players YOU wanted.

Get over it.

No dumbass I'm pissed that we have not addressed the lack of an NT or pass rush. I'm also saying that until we improve on either of those two areas we will not see any real improvement in the win/loss column.

Please single in on those two things and explain to me, with whatever degree of logic or rational thought you are capable of mustering, how we will be better THIS YEAR in either of those areas.

chiefzilla1501
05-10-2010, 06:28 PM
Great. If he was the #3 on a lot of teams' boards, we should reasonably expect him to have the potential to develop into a #2 WR.

Why does it even matter if you play the slot or the #2? Why are people so obsessed with the positional slot?

I care about production. I could give a shit where he plays. If he puts up 800+ all purpose yards a season, I'm more than happy, even if that means lining him up as a backup tight end for all I care.

beach tribe
05-10-2010, 06:29 PM
Personally, I thought the draft was outstanding.

They collected a bunch of potential playmakers. I'll take that any day of the week over guys that are "role players" like TyJack, Magee, etc.

I also believe it's far too soon to call it a career for guys like Mays, Belcher, Walters and Studebaker. I think Belcher and Studebaker have a chance to make a real impact this year.

Furthermore, drafting an outside linebacker and a nose tackle would leave the Chiefs perilously thin at game-changing, offensive playmakers (and yes, I consider Arenas to be an offensive player).

Agreed. I'm glad we are going to be able to get another look at them before drafting their replacements.

DaneMcCloud
05-10-2010, 06:29 PM
No dumbass I'm pissed that we have not addressed the lack of an NT or pass rush. I'm also saying that until we improve on either of those two areas we will not see any real improvement in the win/loss column.

Please single in on those two things and explain to me, with whatever degree of logic or rational thought you are capable of mustering, how we will be better THIS YEAR in either of those areas.

Who gives a flying FUCK about this year? The Chiefs will be LUCKY to win 8 games but they'll be a lot closer to winning more since they added PLAYMAKERS.

Not some fucking fat fuck with questionable work habits or a OLB with a major medical issue that allowed him to slip to the mid-second round.

GAME CHANGING PLAYMAKERS.

Guys that can change the outcome of the game simply by touching the ball.

chiefzilla1501
05-10-2010, 06:32 PM
Im declaring that using a second rd pick, with the major holes that this team has, on a nickle corner/pr is just a tad silly.

Ive said multiple times that i realize that the team cannot be fixed with 1 draft, and ill be happy with the arenas pick if he gets a couple sacks, a pick or 2, and can set us up in good field position, but whos going to throw the ball at us when they know they can get 6 yards a pop running the ball every down?

But that's the wrong way to look at it. You're looking at this from a "short-term results" angle. If we shored up the Nose Tackle position, guess what, teams would be targeting Donald Washington and Leggett all game long like they did last year and suddenly we make Jabar Gaffney look like an all pro receiver.

There was no silver bullet. If we shored up NT or ILB, we'd have an average offense and major glaring weaknesses in our return game and in our 3rd down defense, which is where we got killed the most last season.

Short Leash Hootie
05-10-2010, 06:32 PM
A page ago OTWP talked about how good the Ravens, Packers and Eagles are with the draft...

I'm going to go ahead and call bullshit right now on the Packers...

If you'd like, I'd post their last 4 or 5 drafts on here like I did the other day with Mecca...

They've had some RIDICULOUSLY bad misses...they've been as bad, if not worse, at drafting as the Chiefs since the year 2000...

They've made one really good pick (Rodgers) and one really good value pick (Jennings)...and other than that...they have WAY more busts than hits...

and as Dane has pointed out about the Ravens...they "win" the draft every year...but that hasn't really translated to them becoming some sort of dynasty or envy of the NFL...

and the Eagles...

again...

I like what they've done in the last few years with the collection of playmakers they've acquired but before that...they had McNabb and a terrific defensive scheme that carried them to one Super Bowl worth and a lot of years of disappointment.

So...

Excuse me for not minding the fact we chose to try and emulate the Patriots rather than the three teams I just discussed.

DaneMcCloud
05-10-2010, 06:32 PM
Im declaring that using a second rd pick, with the major holes that this team has, on a nickle corner/pr is just a tad silly.

Ive said multiple times that i realize that the team cannot be fixed with 1 draft, and ill be happy with the arenas pick if he gets a couple sacks, a pick or 2, and can set us up in good field position, but whos going to throw the ball at us when they know they can get 6 yards a pop running the ball every down?

So a solid nickle back in the NFL isn't a need?

Have you WATCHED the Chiefs the past few seasons?

And wouldn't it be nice if the Chiefs consistently took the field on the 35+ instead of the fucking 14?

Huffman83
05-10-2010, 06:32 PM
Personally, I thought the draft was outstanding.

They collected a bunch of potential playmakers. I'll take that any day of the week over guys that are "role players" like TyJack, Magee, etc.

I also believe it's far too soon to call it a career for guys like Mays, Belcher, Walters and Studebaker. I think Belcher and Studebaker have a chance to make a real impact this year.

Furthermore, drafting an outside linebacker and a nose tackle would leave the Chiefs perilously thin at game-changing, offensive playmakers (and yes, I consider Arenas to be an offensive player).

I think the issue that people are having is the fact that KC drafted like they were an 8-8 team and needed just a few guys that could make a few plays and open some games up for them. I mean...imagine what games KC could have won if guys on last years team made certain plays that could have been huge (every pass thrown to Lance Long, Mark Bradley and Cottam against Buffalo.)

Okay so they would have won maybe 2 more games.

I agree, the Chiefs needed to get playmakers, but I still wish they had picked up a NT and addressed the LB position more. But I remember when KC drafted Charles and having a "WTF?" reaction and got over it quickly.

DeezNutz
05-10-2010, 06:33 PM
So a solid nickle back in the NFL isn't a need?

Have you WATCHED the Chiefs the past few seasons?

And wouldn't it be nice if the Chiefs consistently took the field on the 35+ instead of the ****ing 14?

Do either of these positions require a second-round pick?

Short Leash Hootie
05-10-2010, 06:33 PM
The only reason we should be envious of the Packers is because they went from ONE franchise QB for 20 years and landed a new one right away...

That's where the envy should stop...

These are their first round picks since 2000...and in all honesty, outside of a couple of 2nd round picks and a 3rd round pick or two...they have had some shitty, shitty, shitty picks/reaches and guys who hardly ever see the field who are early, early, early 1st day picks.

Bubba Franks
Jamal Reynolds
Javon Walker
Nick Barnett
Ahmad Carroll
Aaron Rodgers
A.J. Hawk
Justin Harrell
B.J. Raji
Clay Matthews
Brian Bulaga

chiefzilla1501
05-10-2010, 06:34 PM
No dumbass I'm pissed that we have not addressed the lack of an NT or pass rush. I'm also saying that until we improve on either of those two areas we will not see any real improvement in the win/loss column.

Please single in on those two things and explain to me, with whatever degree of logic or rational thought you are capable of mustering, how we will be better THIS YEAR in either of those areas.

And here's the other angle. With a second round pick, you really think we're going to find surefire playmakers at the OLB position for a pass rush?

If we focused on NT and OLB, we'd be an average defense on a team with less than a handful of playmakers.

We can fill in pieces like ILB and NT with solid players in the future. Tons of opportunity. You only have so many chances to bring in playmakers.

DaneMcCloud
05-10-2010, 06:34 PM
Do either of these positions require a second-round pick?

Apparently...

Brock
05-10-2010, 06:35 PM
This team isn't good enough to draft specific needs. It sucks everywhere.

DeezNutz
05-10-2010, 06:37 PM
Apparently...

But this is the same as saying we needed to spend #3 overall to get a decent 5-tech.

Like I said, we made some surprising picks, and Pioli simply needs to be right. His very limited history with the Chiefs is enough to give anyone pause, though.

DBOSHO
05-10-2010, 06:37 PM
So a solid nickle back in the NFL isn't a need?

Have you WATCHED the Chiefs the past few seasons?

And wouldn't it be nice if the Chiefs consistently took the field on the 35+ instead of the ****ing 14?

I slightly remember you very pissed that we took donald washington last year, who supposedly was the nickle in waiting, with a fourth round pick. This year, we took one with a 2nd rounder, and its okay?

If im thinking of another poster i apologize.

nychief
05-10-2010, 06:37 PM
So a solid nickle back in the NFL isn't a need?

Have you WATCHED the Chiefs the past few seasons?

And wouldn't it be nice if the Chiefs consistently took the field on the 35+ instead of the ****ing 14?


I think it would be foolish to presume that Arenas will only be a nickle back, He has the same speed as Flowers, and I believe that Haley and Romeo will give him every chance to start at CB at some point.

chiefzilla1501
05-10-2010, 06:38 PM
I think the issue that people are having is the fact that KC drafted like they were an 8-8 team and needed just a few guys that could make a few plays and open some games up for them. I mean...imagine what games KC could have won if guys on last years team made certain plays that could have been huge (every pass thrown to Lance Long, Mark Bradley and Cottam against Buffalo.)

Okay so they would have won maybe 2 more games.

And other people are acting like adding a Nose Tackle or an ILB to that mix would have taken us to 10-6 this season and the playoffs. The Chiefs weren't going to make the playoffs this year, no matter how outstanding their draft. Nobody denies that NT, ILB, and OLB need to be improved eventually.

And I'd also add on to your argument that our team got embarrassed by players like Gaffney and Sims-Walker. And we were absolutely positively horrendous at 3rd down defense and offense, as well as special teams. Can you deny that Arenas, if he pans out at nickel, makes us much better on 3rd down D? Or that McCluster, as a verstaile flex player, makes us better at 3rd down offense? Those are two downs that make an enormous difference for your team.

BossChief
05-10-2010, 06:39 PM
Dane is running a muck in this thread and taking no prisoners.

FTR I agree with about every damn thing he said.

DeezNutz
05-10-2010, 06:39 PM
Eventually?

We're still attempting to run a 34, right? If so, I'd say that acquiring a NT should be a bit more important.

Who knows, maybe Romeo is going to change up a bit, giving us more options. I'll wait and see what happens this year for jumping to too many conclusions.

DeezNutz
05-10-2010, 06:40 PM
What's "a muck"? Slang for our '10 second round?

nychief
05-10-2010, 06:42 PM
What's "a muck"? Slang for our '10 second round?


amok or amuk.

Short Leash Hootie
05-10-2010, 06:42 PM
when we look back at our 2nd round in 2012, we're going to think of it as one of the best drafting rounds we've ever had.

Feel free to bookmark this post.

chiefzilla1501
05-10-2010, 06:42 PM
Eventually?

We're still attempting to run a 34, right? If so, I'd say that acquiring a NT should be a bit more important.

Who knows, maybe Romeo is going to change up a bit, giving us more options. I'll wait and see what happens this year for jumping to too many conclusions.

Wouldn't you agree though that the Nose Tackle position is a position you shouldn't just settle for? What if you don't like who's on top of the board? Do you have to take one simply because you know you need one?

DeezNutz
05-10-2010, 06:43 PM
Wouldn't you agree though that the Nose Tackle position is a position you shouldn't just settle for? What if you don't like who's on top of the board? Do you have to take one simply because you know you need one?

At some point, I think you have to try to do something with the position.

In the second? No, not necessarily.

BossChief
05-10-2010, 06:43 PM
I slightly remember you very pissed that we took donald washington last year, who supposedly was the nickle in waiting, with a fourth round pick. This year, we took one with a 2nd rounder, and its okay?

If im thinking of another poster i apologize.

hahahaha

let me know when Donald Washington is the best returner in college football.

Arguably one of our biggest needs.

Not anymore.

A solid nickle/slot receiver isnt a luxury pick in the NFL anymore, it is a need.

I might have to dig up the story with the breakdown, but the NFL overall ran out of 3 or more wide sets almost 60% of the time.

This isnt a 3 yards in a cloud of dust NFL anymore, those days are gone.

Short Leash Hootie
05-10-2010, 06:44 PM
it's hysterical that the same guys who used to get so mad at Carl for drafting for need rather than BPA are now blasting Pioli for drafting playmakers instead of drafting for need...

Makes no sense.

***here comes OTWP to tell us that our needs were the BPA on his board, so they must have been the BPA on everyone else's board since he has amazing scouting credentials etc. etc. etc.***

Huffman83
05-10-2010, 06:45 PM
And other people are acting like adding a Nose Tackle or an ILB to that mix would have taken us to 10-6 this season and the playoffs. The Chiefs weren't going to make the playoffs this year, no matter how outstanding their draft. Nobody denies that NT, ILB, and OLB need to be improved eventually.

And I'd also add on to your argument that our team got embarrassed by players like Gaffney and Sims-Walker. And we were absolutely positively horrendous at 3rd down defense and offense, as well as special teams. Can you deny that Arenas, if he pans out at nickel, makes us much better on 3rd down D? Or that McCluster, as a verstaile flex player, makes us better at 3rd down offense? Those are two downs that make an enormous difference for your team.

Absolutely! I'm very curious as to what McCluster could do as the slot receiver and even just the threat of him stretching the field and how much it could open it up for every receiver on the play.

However a lot of the issue as to why a lot of receivers had great days was because the secondary couldn't guard the receivers all day. Nobody could immediately get to the QB and they had all the time in the world to throw. The exception was Carr having his head way up his ass against Gaffney. It almost seemed like he played down to him and got owned.

DBOSHO
05-10-2010, 06:47 PM
Whats arenas' 40 time compared to flowers?

beach tribe
05-10-2010, 06:47 PM
No dumbass I'm pissed that we have not addressed the lack of an NT or pass rush. I'm also saying that until we improve on either of those two areas we will not see any real improvement in the win/loss column.

Please single in on those two things and explain to me, with whatever degree of logic or rational thought you are capable of mustering, how we will be better THIS YEAR in either of those areas.

Dude, we are not going to the SB this season, but we will win more games than last season. Bank on it.
Drafting for need is a recipe for mediocrity. Pioli stuck to his board. After all the worthless need based drafts under Carl, this is a breath of fresh air.

Mecca
05-10-2010, 06:48 PM
For the earlier post, the Packers have hit on players out of the first, yes they have a few really bad ones like Justin Harrell, also their GM's first pick is Rodgers so it's not really fair to him to list picks before that, that would be like listing Junior Siavii for Pioli.

The Packers have ended up as one of the ascending young teams because they managed to hit on guys like Jennings, Nick Collins, Jermichael Finley etc out of the first.

Short Leash Hootie
05-10-2010, 06:48 PM
"no that wasn't Carr at all! Carr played perfectly! It was all Mike Brown! You casual fans have no idea what you're talking about!!!!!"

BossChief
05-10-2010, 06:48 PM
I wonder if the fans in NE bitched about them trading a second rounder for Welker who is small, but shifty and strong.

DeezNutz
05-10-2010, 06:49 PM
I do think Carr is underrated.

Short Leash Hootie
05-10-2010, 06:49 PM
For the earlier post, the Packers have hit on players out of the first, yes they have a few really bad ones like Justin Harrell, also their GM's first pick is Rodgers so it's not really fair to him to list picks before that, that would be like listing Junior Siavii for Pioli.

The Packers have ended up as one of the ascending young teams because they managed to hit on guys like Jennings, Nick Collins, Jermichael Finley etc out of the first.

ROFL

I like how you listed Jennings/Collins and Finley...

But please...

Keep going...

Give me the etc. etc. etc.

Go on!

I'm eagerly awaiting.

chiefzilla1501
05-10-2010, 06:49 PM
At some point, I think you have to try to do something with the position.

In the second? No, not necessarily.

Complete speculation, but I can't help but think that the guy they wanted with 2b was Troup. Completely wild speculation. But the point being, while you want to do something for the position, that doesn't mean reaching (which we would have had to do at 2a) or settling (if we weren't impressed with Cody with 2b).

Gosselin firmly believes we took players at exactly the right value with every single pick. So while yeah, it sucks we didn't really address the Nose Tackle position, that doesn't mean we're out of options for the next 2 years. My sense is that if this team is very close to competing after this season, I'd be shocked if we didn't make a major play for a big-time free agent Nose Tackle and/or Outside LB, and the same in the draft.

Like I said, I just want to see us improve. Our run D probably won't a whole lot, but if in exchange, we end up with a significantly better pass O, run O, and secondary? It's not a bad trade.

Short Leash Hootie
05-10-2010, 06:49 PM
I do think Carr is underrated.

I think Carr is less than three years away from no longer being in the NFL.

Mecca
05-10-2010, 06:49 PM
Also when did this complete overvaluing of kick returners happen?

Buffalo has consistently been the best or one of the best special teams/return teams in the league for upwards of a decade now, I see it's done a lot for them.

Short Leash Hootie
05-10-2010, 06:51 PM
Take out Aaron Rodgers...

and the Packers have been just as mediocre at the draft as the Chiefs have been...if not worse...

You could even word that as...

Take away Brett Favre...

Because you fucking knows how Rodgers would have turned out if he didn't get to sit on the bench for three years learning the system and learning how to play the position from one of the greatest QB's ever...

So this whole "the Packers get it!!!!!" shit is BULLSHIT.

chiefzilla1501
05-10-2010, 06:51 PM
Also when did this complete overvaluing of kick returners happen?

Buffalo has consistently been the best or one of the best special teams/return teams in the league for upwards of a decade now, I see it's done a lot for them.

Returners are very valuable when they're dynamic in the return game and also add significant value on offense or defense too.

Brock
05-10-2010, 06:52 PM
Also when did this complete overvaluing of kick returners happen?

Buffalo has consistently been the best or one of the best special teams/return teams in the league for upwards of a decade now, I see it's done a lot for them.

The Ravens, Saints, and Jets are up there too. But I guess that doesn't really prove your point.

Huffman83
05-10-2010, 06:53 PM
Complete speculation, but I can't help but think that the guy they wanted with 2b was Troup. Completely wild speculation. But the point being, while you want to do something for the position, that doesn't mean reaching (which we would have had to do at 2a) or settling (if we weren't impressed with Cody with 2b).

Gosselin firmly believes we took players at exactly the right value with every single pick. So while yeah, it sucks we didn't really address the Nose Tackle position, that doesn't mean we're out of options for the next 2 years. My sense is that if this team is very close to competing after this season, I'd be shocked if we didn't make a major play for a big-time free agent Nose Tackle and/or Outside LB, and the same in the draft.

Like I said, I just want to see us improve. Our run D probably won't a whole lot, but if in exchange, we end up with a significantly better pass O, run O, and secondary? It's not a bad trade.

What would get to me is the fact that the team just ends up like it was in the early 2000's w/ a fantastic offense and horrible D. Winning but just scraping by. At least the games were fun to watch....even if it was a losing season!

Reaper16
05-10-2010, 06:53 PM
I do think Carr is underrated.
That's because you know how to watch football.

Mecca
05-10-2010, 06:54 PM
Green Bay's 2007 draft is horrendous, the rest with the GM they have now are solid to good.

Mecca
05-10-2010, 06:54 PM
The Ravens, Saints, and Jets are up there too. But I guess that doesn't really prove your point.

The point is, it's nice to have a good returner but when you suck at everything else it's really not going to help you.

Brock
05-10-2010, 06:56 PM
The point is, it's nice to have a good returner but when you suck at everything else it's really not going to help you.

I don't know how you can say that with a straight face. A good returner helps your offense and your defense.

Mecca
05-10-2010, 06:57 PM
Having a great returner when you suck at everything else is like putting a really expensive stereo in a car worth 350 dollars.

Short Leash Hootie
05-10-2010, 06:57 PM
Here it is right here:

The Packers have NOT BEEN a good drafting team since 2005 (the Ted Thompson era)...

That's a complete and total MYTH. He has hit on a few picks...and scored GREATLY on one (Rodgers)...but in all honesty...I have a hard time giving him more than an A for that pick for two reasons...

1. Brett Favre
2. The dude fell in his lap...

Kudos for taking the BPA...and congrats you were lucky enough to hand him a team full of talent and have the benefit of having three years of bench play under his belt.

But other than that...

The drafturbators ONLY LIKE the Green Bay "drafts" because they always have a lot of picks...so they confuse that with Green Bay knowing how to draft...when in reality...they just agree with the drafturbating mission statement:

YOU BUILD THROUGH THE DRAFT.

What they choose to ignore is...

This team has drafted WORSE than the Chiefs have...and they think we're the worst GD drafting team in professional sports.

****These are their picks in the first four rounds from the 2005-2008 drafts****

2005:

Aaron Rodgers
Nick Collins
Terrence Murphy
Marviel Underwood
Brady Poppinga

2006:

A.J Hawk
Daryn Colledge
Greg Jennings
Abdul Hodge
Jason Spitz
Cory Rodgers
Will Blackmon

2007:

Justin Harrell
Brandon Jackson
James Jones
Aaron Rouse
Allen Babre
David Clowney

2008:

Jordy Nelson
Brian Brohm
Patrick Lee
Jermichael Finley
Jeremy Thompson
Josh Sitton

Reaper16
05-10-2010, 06:58 PM
Which teams have spent a second round pick or higher on their current principle returner?

chiefzilla1501
05-10-2010, 06:58 PM
What would get to me is the fact that the team just ends up like it was in the early 2000's w/ a fantastic offense and horrible D. Winning but just scraping by. At least the games were fun to watch....even if it was a losing season!

Well, yeah. We can't congratulate the team if they hit on one offseason (assuming they did). Doesn't change the fact that they fucked us up by moving backward in 2009 instead of forward.

We needed to have a really good 2010 and 2011 to get to playoff contention. If we know Pioli's history in NE, he tends to go on major free agent spending sprees when he feels like his team may be close. I expect a new CBA to pass and for the Chiefs to be very aggressive players in free agency. And I hope we follow up with a good draft in 2011. A lot of "ifs".

BossChief
05-10-2010, 06:58 PM
What's "a muck"? Slang for our '10 second round?

LOL

pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

I do think Carr is underrated.

me too.

I think his problem was going from a cover 2 to man coverage and the biggest problem wasn't keeping up with the receiver, it was getting his head turned around.

With our coaching in place I except him to make strides with the details he needs to work on.

I can say one thing, that guy has to be the most boring guy in real life. His twitter is like cheerios without sugar.

BossChief
05-10-2010, 06:59 PM
Which teams have spent a second round pick or higher on their current principle returner?

would you have traded a second rounder for Cribbs?

Huffman83
05-10-2010, 06:59 PM
Which teams have spent a second round pick or higher on their current principle returner?

Devin Hester

Mecca
05-10-2010, 06:59 PM
If you're going to do GB's drafts why not list the guys who are starting for them or did you leave out Jolly and Sitton because you honestly have no idea who starts on the team?

Short Leash Hootie
05-10-2010, 06:59 PM
so in 2007 and 2008 they came away with one good player basically (Finley)...and he's a TE...and according to the drafturbators...TE's aren't even that freaking important...

and THIS is the team that we're envious of?!

That's fucking hysterical.

I love when these ass clowns make claims that are so false it isn't even funny...

I love how they confuse abundance of picks with the quality of players those picks produce...

Short Leash Hootie
05-10-2010, 07:00 PM
If you're going to do GB's drafts why not list the guys who are starting for them or did you leave out Jolly and Sitton because you honestly have no idea who starts on the team?

I didn't out anyone you fucking idiot...

I listed ALL OF THEIR PICKS 1ST-4TH from the 2005-2008 NFL drafts.

Mecca
05-10-2010, 07:00 PM
would you have traded a second rounder for Cribbs?

I wouldn't, not with this team anyway.

Mecca
05-10-2010, 07:01 PM
Arguing with Hootie is like trying to have a rational conversation with someone in the insane asylum.

Saying a TE is not worth a 1st round pick is not saying all TE's suck. GB did what we've always said you do, you get a productive TE without using a 1, wow comprehension is hard huh?

Ralphy Boy
05-10-2010, 07:01 PM
Who gives a flying **** about this year? The Chiefs will be LUCKY to win 8 games but they'll be a lot closer to winning more since they added PLAYMAKERS.

Not some ****ing fat **** with questionable work habits or a OLB with a major medical issue that allowed him to slip to the mid-second round.

GAME CHANGING PLAYMAKERS.

Guys that can change the outcome of the game simply by touching the ball.

Obviously I care about this year and so does every season ticket holder or single ticket purchaser who doesn't want to pay to see a loss.

For the last time, I didn't want Cody. NEVER wanted him.

Fact is I wanted Clausen & Tate in the 2nd over the players we drafted and I would have taken Clausen over Kindle because I thought he would have given us a better long term solution than Cassel. So I do realize its not all about this year, but IMO to pass on those two players then I think that speaks to the urgency of the picks and that they expect results THIS YEAR.

Basically they are saying that the careers of McCluster & Arenas will be better than Clausen & Tate and I don't see it. Time will tell and I hope I am wrong.

Either way this whole thing is a stupid argument.

Huffman83
05-10-2010, 07:01 PM
LOL

pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.



me too.

I think his problem was going from a cover 2 to man coverage and the biggest problem wasn't keeping up with the receiver, it was getting his head turned around.

With our coaching in place I except him to make strides with the details he needs to work on.

I can say one thing, that guy has to be the most boring guy in real life. His twitter is like cheerios without sugar.


He also got picked on A LOT. I think that had to do with Flowers and QB's not throwing it his way.

Short Leash Hootie
05-10-2010, 07:01 PM
Mecca...

Please...

Give me your master analysis for those drafts...

How are those GOOD drafts?

Huh?

Really?

They've made one great pick: Rodgers.

Two good picks: Jennings/Collins

and one luxury pick that turned out to be a hit: Finley

We've been a better drafting team since 2005 than the Packers.

Mecca
05-10-2010, 07:03 PM
Mecca...

Please...

Give me your master analysis for those drafts...

How are those GOOD drafts?

Huh?

Really?

They've made one great pick: Rodgers.

Two good picks: Jennings/Collins

and one luxury pick that turned out to be a hit: Finley

We've been a better drafting team since 2005 than the Packers.

Then quickly explain how they sit in such a better spot and have the youngest team in the league...what you are saying makes no sense.

Brock
05-10-2010, 07:03 PM
Arguing with Hootie is like trying to have a rational conversation with someone in the insane asylum.

Saying a TE is not worth a 1st round pick is not saying all TE's suck. GB did what we've always said you do, you get a productive TE without using a 1, wow comprehension is hard huh?

I hate to tell you this, but he's owning your ass.

BossChief
05-10-2010, 07:03 PM
Having a great returner when you suck at everything else is like putting a really expensive stereo in a car worth 350 dollars.
one of the things we sucked at was covering the slot because our nickle corners were garbage.

How many opposing teams drives got extended on third and long because our safety and nickle got exposed?

LOTS

Our guy should do well there as well as give us a nice edge rush because they will be able to blitz him frequently with Berry behind him.

Thats all without mentioning that he was the best returner in college football and we had Bobby Wade returning last year, that was embarrassing.

I am not in love with that pick, but I dont think it was a bad one either.

Short Leash Hootie
05-10-2010, 07:05 PM
Arguing with Hootie is like trying to have a rational conversation with someone in the insane asylum.

Saying a TE is not worth a 1st round pick is not saying all TE's suck. GB did what we've always said you do, you get a productive TE without using a 1, wow comprehension is hard huh?

Oh so I'm wrong here!?!?!?!?!??!

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

I just listed all of their 1st-4th round picks from 2005-2008 to show everyone how much of an abortion their drafting really is...even though they always are among the league leaders in draft picks since they value the draft so much...

I told everyone exactly WHY you morons think Green Bay is a great drafting team...it isn't because they actually draft well...it's because they stockpile picks and for some reason you guys envy that...even though it hasn't really worked out for them all that well at all...

When you referenced Green Bay's draft...you referenced their only three real hits outside of the 1st round (Collins/Jennings/Finley) and than added etc. etc. etc. to solidify your point...

I asked who the etc. etc. etc. were, and you ignored it...

and then I posted their abysmal picks and reaches and abundance of 2nd round picks that aren't even on their roster (or if they are, they hardly have any impact whatsoever) and then you make some dumbass remark about me being a dumbass...

You're a fucking piece of shit loser...a 29 year old who lives at home and has no job.

FUCK YOURSELF YOU FUCKING UNPRODUCTIVE MEMBER OF SOCIETY...YOU MAKE DUMBSHITS ON WELFARE LOOK RESPECTABLE.

chiefzilla1501
05-10-2010, 07:05 PM
would you have traded a second rounder for Cribbs?

I wouldn't have. I would have traded for Sproles, though, and he's a similar player to McCluster.

Mecca
05-10-2010, 07:05 PM
I hate to tell you this, but he's owning your ass.

It's always good to know who can't read very well on the forum.

Mecca
05-10-2010, 07:06 PM
Johnny Jolly was a 6th round pick and is a better end than anyone on our team.

Brock
05-10-2010, 07:06 PM
It's always good to know who can't read very well on the forum.

Mecca, you're literally the last person on this board who should throw around intelligence smack. You're not smart, get over the delusion that you are.

Short Leash Hootie
05-10-2010, 07:07 PM
Then quickly explain how they sit in such a better spot and have the youngest team in the league...what you are saying makes no sense.

It's quite fucking easy...

They have Aaron Rodgers.

We don't.

They had Brett Favre before that...

We didn't.

I understand people who envy a team who goes from one franchise QB to another...

That's awesome.

But that doesn't mean they are some elite drafting organization...

Because that couldn't be further from the truth.

Brock
05-10-2010, 07:07 PM
Oh hai guyz, did you know Kawika Mitchell is going to get a 30 million dollar deal when he leaves KC?

Reaper16
05-10-2010, 07:08 PM
would you have traded a second rounder for Cribbs?
Fuck no.

As for Hester, he hasn't had a return TD since 2007. He's been used more and more as a WR, which apparently has some correlation to a decrease in effectiveness as a returner. So if Devin Hester is worth that second round pick it is only because he's become one of the Bears' starting WR. Arenas, to be worth that second round pick, needs to be both a Devin Hester like returner and a very effective nickleback. I sure hope he becomes both but I think that its doubtful.

Short Leash Hootie
05-10-2010, 07:09 PM
Johnny Jolly was a 6th round pick and is a better end than anyone on our team.

ROFL

Fine.

The Packers are an amazing drafting team because...despite wasting pick after pick after pick in the 2nd and 3rd rounds since Thompson took over...

They did manage to luck out on Johnny Jolly in the 6th round.

RustShack
05-10-2010, 07:10 PM
Arenas is a lot like Flowers... not quite as much upside as a CB... but still far more than Carr. Plus having a KR like him can put you in a lot better field position if not score and will win you games... Weis and Crennel alone add a few wins to our team. Berry, McCluster, Arenas, Moeaki alone add a few wins. Our cup cake schedule compared to our hard as fuck schedule alone adds a few wins... I'm not saying the Chiefs WILL win ten games... but our team is far far better than last year. Just being able to focus on football instead of cutting weight this year and for the most part everyone being on the same page this year is going to help a lot. Even some of the games we lost we were in the games at the end... The Chiefs aren't as bad as a lot of people are trying to make it sound. Our DE's having a year under their belts will help the DL a lot. Smith is a NT than Edwards. Far better. And he will be more productive for us this year than any rookie would have been. Edwards is a great backup NT, and we have a nice NT to groom for awhile behind them. Our line now is a lot better than it was going into last year. Teams wont be able to stop both Charles and McCluster. If they do some how.. they can't stop both Chambers and Bowe. If they do somehow Moeaki should be pretty open if hes healthy. Which reminds me, if Charles would have been the starter all year its not crazy to think we wouldn't have been in the hunt for wining the AFC West.. plus Thomas Jones should be a pretty good backup.

Short Leash Hootie
05-10-2010, 07:10 PM
I post concrete evidence that the Packers have been a comparable (if not worse) drafting team than the Chiefs and mecca deflects by talking about Johnny Fucking Jolly and how I'm a moron...

Typical fucking mecca bullshit.

Seriously...

No one can honestly wonder why he's a total piece of shit, can they? No job, no life, lives with his parents...I feel sorry for you Mecca...

I'll have a beer at midnight in your honor for my birthday...since I'll celebrate tonight since I have to wake up and GO TO ONE OF MY TWO JOBS tomorrow morning.

chiefzilla1501
05-10-2010, 07:17 PM
**** no.

As for Hester, he hasn't had a return TD since 2007. He's been used more and more as a WR, which apparently has some correlation to a decrease in effectiveness as a returner. So if Devin Hester is worth that second round pick it is only because he's become one of the Bears' starting WR. Arenas, to be worth that second round pick, needs to be both a Devin Hester like returner and a very effective nickleback. I sure hope he becomes both but I think that its doubtful.

Wow, that's an awfully high standard. When did low second round picks carry so much value? I don't care how deep the draft is, getting a very effective nickel back and an effective returner while maybe not being worth the pick, certainly isn't a bad outcome.

And I think the Bears utilized Hester completely wrong. I don't think full-time players should return both punts and kicks. My guess is that Arenas returns punts and McCluster returns kicks.

BossChief
05-10-2010, 07:19 PM
We are fans of a team that has had 1 player stick from all of our previous second rounders for god knows how long and people bitch about getting two dynamic players in the second round.

If the guy is a top ten returner and plays 50% of the defensive snaps and adds elements to our game that are lacking, its a good pick.

end of story

Reaper16
05-10-2010, 07:20 PM
Wow, that's an awfully high standard. When did low second round picks carry so much value? I don't care how deep the draft is, getting a very effective nickel back and an effective returner while maybe not being worth the pick, certainly isn't a bad outcome.

And I think the Bears utilized Hester completely wrong. I don't think full-time players should return both punts and kicks. My guess is that Arenas returns punts and McCluster returns kicks.
When did second round picks carry so much value? How about all of the time? They've never not had so much value. I demand an effective starter out of a second round pick. Period. If you're doing it right then you will get a starter. Nonstarters need to be really, really good to justify spending a second round pick on them. That is how I feel about second round picks.

Mecca
05-10-2010, 07:20 PM
We are fans of a team that has had 1 player stick from all of our previous second rounders for god knows how long and people bitch about getting two dynamic players in the second round.

If the guy is a top ten returner and plays 50% of the defensive snaps and adds elements to our game that are lacking, its a good pick.

end of story

Should that really be the grading scale? I don't think saying hey our last GM made a lot of bad picks so if this guy just doesn't shit himself it'll be ok.

Short Leash Hootie
05-10-2010, 07:27 PM
When did second round picks carry so much value? How about all of the time? They've never not had so much value. I demand an effective starter out of a second round pick. Period. If you're doing it right then you will get a starter. Nonstarters need to be really, really good to justify spending a second round pick on them. That is how I feel about second round picks.

You simply have an unrealistic level of expectations if this is the case...

Go look at every 2nd round in the last 10 years...

Tell me how many are "effective" starters.

chiefzilla1501
05-10-2010, 07:27 PM
When did second round picks carry so much value? How about all of the time? They've never not had so much value. I demand an effective starter out of a second round pick. Period. If you're doing it right then you will get a starter. Nonstarters need to be really, really good to justify spending a second round pick on them. That is how I feel about second round picks.

These are second round picks. MIddle second round. You're talking about either a very high risk, high reward player, a good player at low positional value, or good players with low upside. It's not like we're talking about the middle of the first round, where there is no excuse for missing.

Over half of the players taken 10 picks over 50 are probably going to either be busts or rotational players at best. It's mass exaggeration to say that we have to hit a home run with these picks. If Arenas ends up as an effective Nickel Back and an effective returner, his value will be higher than most of the picks we passed on.

Mecca
05-10-2010, 07:30 PM
like players that are the best returner in college football while amassing more sacks in college than Sergio Kindle or Koa Misi?

Like that kind of good?

That is not an exaggeration either.

Javier Arenas had more career sacks in college than Misi or Kindle.

Yeah, he is a corner.

BOOM

Dude, please get your stats correct.

Kindle had 16 career sacks Misi had 10 sacks Arenas had 7

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=191481

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=183436

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=232996

BossChief
05-10-2010, 07:31 PM
Dude, please get your stats correct.

Kindle had 16 career sacks Arenas had 7

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=191481

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=183436

I didnt catch it in time

I meant to cut it down to just misi from last years stats but my finger somehow double tapped the pad and it posted before I could change it.

oh well.

I was wrong.

Mecca
05-10-2010, 07:32 PM
I even edited in Misi who Arenas didn't beat either.

BossChief
05-10-2010, 07:35 PM
Javier Arenas had the same amount of sacks as Koa Misi last year as a corner and doubled as the nations best returner.

Yeah, that is what I wanted to post.