Best Beginner Electric Guitar?

[AustinChief]

My nephew's bday is this week and I have a quick question...

What is the best electric guitar for a kid to begin with?

Yamaha? Epiphone?

Suggestions?

[Bugeater]

We bought my son a Epiphone and it's been good enough for him. They're made by Gibson and very affordable.

[booger]

fender squire strats aren't bad.

[CoMoChief]

Metallica

[Mr. Laz]

you could always do a starter kit too ... lots of different brands around with a wide price range.

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[Kyle DeLexus]

acoustic

[DaneMcCloud]

I'd recommend an inexpensive Epiphone Les Paul

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Special-II-Electric-Guitar?sku=518334

[CoMoChief]

Esteban........Gift of Guitar.

http://www.entertainment-arizona.com/images/esteban_2.jpg

[DMAC]

Epiphone, Squier, Rogue

[DMAC]

acousticYamaha

[booger]

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/value-packages

[Simply Red]

http://i44.tinypic.com/nl536e.jpg

th^t one is pretty damned good.

[DaneMcCloud]

If you're wanting to buy an amp as well, I'd recommend this Marshall to go along with the Epi Les Paul I linked:

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Marshall-MG4-Series-MG15FX-15W-1x8-Guitar-Combo-Amp-Black?sku=501642

[Pablo]

I had an Epiphone for my first guitar. A couple of my friends had Squire strats.

Either is a fine beginner guitar.

[cardken]

Esteban........Gift of Guitar.

http://www.entertainment-arizona.com/images/esteban_2.jpg

I don't know if he was joking or not but the Estiban guitars are good starter sets and my son still has his 4 years later, as he has advanced. Check HSN lots of nice packages.

[Toadkiller]

I know nothing about guitars but there was a recent deal posted to slickdeals.

http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2011772

Seems like decent prices for that guitar
http://www.worldmusicsupply.com/search.aspx?si=&sp=d10sr

[DaFace]

http://i44.tinypic.com/nl536e.jpg

th^t one is pretty damned good.

Dammit, you beat me to it. I was gonna recommend this one:

http://blog.nola.com/checkitout/2009/01/gh.jpg

[beach tribe]

I'd go with the Epi. I have one, and I still play it, even though I have a Les Paul.

[booger]

http://i44.tinypic.com/nl536e.jpg

th^t one is pretty damned good.

that one is pretty awesome. I jammed so hard on it i broke the whammy bar though and their warranties suck.

[Third Eye]

I don't know if he was joking or not but the Estiban guitars are good starter sets and my son still has his 4 years later, as he has advanced. Check HSN lots of nice packages.

Interesting. I had a friend whose girlfriend bought him one, and it was a piece of junk. Numerous dead frets. I wonder if he just got unlucky, or rather if you got lucky.

[beach tribe]

I would recommend going with the electric. Kids are interested in that kind of stuff, and they will get bored with an acoustic very fast. Not to mention, acoustics are A LOT harder to play, and his young virgin fingers will be hurting for a week after playing that acoustic for a good 2 hrs or so.

[RufusRJones]

I'd go electric and I'd probably go used. Used guitars are generally a lot cheaper (unless they are vintage). You can't go wrong with a Fender strat or telecaster...but you might want to touch base with what the kids are playing. Epiphones are plenty nice too.

My wife's cousin is about 14 and all he could talk about was a "guitar with 24 frets, blah blah blah." I had an old Ibanez RG550 that was once neon yellow that I had stripped all the paint off when I thought Nuno Betancourt was cool. I'm letting him borrow it for as long as he wants. I wouldn't be caught near a stage with it, but he seems cool with it.

I've had good luck with eBay, but your mileage may vary.

[Lzen]

First guitar I ever owned was called The Terminator and it had a built in speaker. Picked it up at Toys R US for about $70 or $80 if memory serves. Had some fun with that thing.

As for the many suggestions of an Epiphone, I agree. Cheap version of a Les Paul. Decent guitar for a beginner.

You could also go with a Strat Squier.

In any case, just about anything that will play to get them started. I wouldn't spend too much dough as kids change their interests and you never know if it will be something he or she sticks with.

[Third Eye]

I had an old Ibanez RG550...

Nice, I had one as well. I had wanted a Jem, but couldn't afford it (in retrospect I can say thank god for that).

[teedubya]

How old is your nephew?

Keep in mind an acoustic doesn't have the "annoying the parents" factor, as much.

[booger]

do the parents a huge favor and get him an earphone output on the amp. Make sure the amp has one anyway, some don't.

[RufusRJones]

Nice, I had one as well. I had wanted a Jem, but couldn't afford it (in retrospect I can say thank god for that).

All things considered, they are really nice playing guitars and put together well. Image-wise, it would never fit what I do now (alt-country and singer-songwriter stuff), but it was a really nice guitar. Super easy to play and you could really shred with that thin neck.

I was in a major Dave Navarro phase when I bought it - and he was playing Ibanez guitars back in the original Jane's days. For what I spent on it, I probably could have gotten a nice 70s Tele Deluxe that would be worth some coin now.

[RedNFeisty]

I know nothing about electric guitars, but when I bought my son a bass guitar this summer, I found a 3/4 bass guitar which of course is smaller in size and fit him better. Depending on the age, this might be a thought to consider.

[FAX]

I'd recommend an inexpensive Epiphone Les Paul

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Special-II-Electric-Guitar?sku=518334

This is a good suggestion in my opinion, Mr. AustinChief. Inexpensive, but sounds good enough to foster an interest in playing. Cool looking, too, and that's critically important for a young guy who's just getting started and would prefer that the girls in his class beg him for sex.

FAX

[booger]

In any case, just about anything that will play to get them started. I wouldn't spend too much dough as kids change their interests and you never know if it will be something he or she sticks with.

very true. Good Advice. At 17 i wasted $$ on an axe and amp, etc. Never practiced enough or got lessons and i lost interest and sold them. Ten yrs later i bought an accoustic and i have a bigger interest but still just messing around, nothing serious. If i have the time though i can easily waste away a night trying to learn different songs off of youtube instructional vids.

[RedNFeisty]

do the parents a huge favor and get him an earphone output on the amp. Make sure the amp has one anyway, some don't.

Yes, yes, yes!!! You must get earphones to go with it!!

[booger]

http://austin.craigslist.org/msg/1733825469.html

[booger]

Yes, yes, yes!!! You must get earphones to go with it!!

depends on how much he likes the parents. :)

[Bugeater]

depends on how much he likes the parents. :)
Very true, and if he doesn't like them I'd recommend a Marshall stack.

http://www.sonicftp.com/news/images/marshall_mg15fxms.jpg

[booger]

Very true, and if he doesn't like them I'd recommend a Marshall stack.

http://www.sonicftp.com/news/images/marshall_mg15fxms.jpg

:D

might need to recommend a good drywall contractor too!

[MoreLemonPledge]

Squier Strat. It's what I learned on. Cheap, but effective.

[petegz28]

Do your nephew a favor, as much as he probably won't like it, get him an acoustic. Get him a cheap electric and cheap amp if you must to keep him happy but I would strongly encourage that if lessons are going to be involved that he take them on an acoustic. Trust me. It will pay off for him and he will recognize that quickly as well. Make him take the lessons and practice on his acoustic. When he grabs the electric he will shred a lot easier.

[DaneMcCloud]

Do your nephew a favor, as much as he probably won't like it, get him an acoustic. Get him a cheap electric and cheap amp if you must to keep him happy but I would strongly encourage that if lessons are going to be involved that he take them on an acoustic. Trust me. It will pay off for him and he will recognize that quickly as well. Make him take the lessons and practice on his acoustic. When he grabs the electric he will shred a lot easier.

Terrible advice.

Most likely, he won't play due to pain to his fingers and wrists, not to mention the fact that unless he's into campfire songs, it's not too much fun to learn an AC/DC song (let alone Van Halen or Stone Sour tune) on an uncomfortable acoustic guitar.

If he wants to learn how to play, get him a nice playing electric with low action to make it as easy as possible to learn and stay interested.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Terrible advice.

Most likely, he won't play due to pain to his fingers and wrists, not to mention the fact that unless he's into campfire songs, it's not too much fun to learn an AC/DC song (let alone Van Halen or Stone Sour tune) on an uncomfortable acoustic guitar.

If he wants to learn how to play, get him a nice playing electric with low action to make it as easy as possible to learn and stay interested.

This. I tried learning on an acoustic and it just hurt. Your fingers aren't strong enough and your callouses aren't built up enough to really do anything, let alone barre chords.

Break in and learn finger placement and such on an electric, then switch to the acoustic. Otherwise he'll probably just give up because it's too hard.

[petegz28]

Terrible advice.

Most likely, he won't play due to pain to his fingers and wrists, not to mention the fact that unless he's into campfire songs, it's not too much fun to learn an AC/DC song (let alone Van Halen or Stone Sour tune) on an uncomfortable acoustic guitar.

If he wants to learn how to play, get him a nice playing electric with low action to make it as easy as possible to learn and stay interested.

Bullshit. First off I said get him an electric to go with the acoustic if that's what the kid wants.

Secondly anyone who has ever played a guitar will tell you that learning on an acoustic makes playing an electric a lot easier. Training your fingers on an acoustic is one of THE BEST things any guitarist can do. Learning your chords and scales on an acoustic will make playing AC\DC and Van Halen a ton easier on an electric.

[petegz28]

This. I tried learning on an acoustic and it just hurt. Your fingers aren't strong enough and your callouses aren't built up enough to really do anything, let alone barre chords.

Break in and learn finger placement and such on an electric, then switch to the acoustic. Otherwise he'll probably just give up because it's too hard.

The problem is most kids won't switch to an acoustic. We can fundamentally disagree here if need be. I think the best thing anyone can do when wanting to learn the guitar is to learn their chords and scales on an acoustic. Exactly for the reason that it does make you stretch more and work harder for chords. Thus when you grab the axe suddenly that 3-5-7 stretch is being done with your index, middle and ring finger instead of index, middel\ring and pinkie. Suddenly those power chords are being barred with two fingers instead of 3.

Plus I would add you learn a lot better picking technique on an acoustic. It's easy to cheat on electric. Especially with the distortion cranked up.

[DaneMcCloud]

Bullshit. First off I said get him an electric to go with the acoustic if that's what the kid wants.

Secondly anyone who has ever played a guitar will tell you that learning on an acoustic makes playing an electric a lot easier. Training your fingers on an acoustic is one of THE BEST things any guitarist can do. Learning your chords and scales on an acoustic will make playing AC\DC and Van Halen a ton easier on an electric.

LMAO

This is fucking laughable.

When you're talking about a child who wants to play guitar, LET HIM PLAY THE FUCKING GUITAR.

Don't stick him with some cheap ass acoustic with high action and say "You'll thank me for this some day".

LMAO

You truly are one of the dumbest humans to ever post on the 'Planet.

LMAO

[DaneMcCloud]

The problem is most kids won't switch to an acoustic. We can fundamentally disagree here if need be. I think the best thing anyone can do when wanting to learn the guitar is to learn their chords and scales on an acoustic. Exactly for the reason that it does make you stretch more and work harder for chords. Thus when you grab the axe suddenly that 3-5-7 stretch is being done with your index, middle and ring finger instead of index, middel\ring and pinkie. Suddenly those power chords are being barred with two fingers instead of 3.

Plus I would add you learn a lot better picking technique on an acoustic. It's easy to cheat on electric. Especially with the distortion cranked up.

Really? Are you telling us that by turning up the gain on your amp, thus inducing a large amount of harmonic distortion, you'll fool the listener into believing that you're a good player, when in actuality, you're not?

LMAO

Please, keep 'em coming!

LMAO

[Huffman83]

I learned on an electric and had only bought an acoustic a good 12 years after I started playing. So I see what a lot of you guys are saying. But yeah. if you want the little bastard to actually play and keep an interest.

Buy an electric, a small little marshall combo and a subscription to Guitar World.

Little Timmy wants to rock and rock now. I understand how physically it could benefit him in playing on an acoustic. But let's think of the social issues you could bring up for the kid if he gets an acoustic. Say he uses an acoustic and he ends up being that douche bag at parties who learned enough 3 chord songs to serenade girls at a party. While yes...that will get you laid but the only thing he'll need his acoustic finger strength is for when he starts finger banging little miss Mary rotten crotch.

If he gets an electric...he may rock. And no girls pay any attention to him.

Plus there are way too many guitar players.


So buy him a drum set instead.

[petegz28]

LMAO

This is ****ing laughable.

When you're talking about a child who wants to play guitar, LET HIM PLAY THE ****ING GUITAR.

Don't stick him with some cheap ass acoustic with high action and say "You'll thank me for this some day".

LMAO

You truly are one of the dumbest humans to ever post on the 'Planet.

LMAO

One day I'll be as dumb as you.

[Huffman83]

Really? Are you telling us that by turning up the gain on your amp, thus inducing a large amount of harmonic distortion, you'll fool the listener into believing that you're a good player, when in actuality, you're not?

LMAO

Please, keep 'em coming!

LMAO

Well you have to admit that whole gain dimed and mids scouped phase of young guitar playing is kind of horrible.

[DaneMcCloud]

Well you have to admit that whole gain dimed and mids scouped phase of young guitar playing is kind of horrible.

But it doesn't cover up the fact that many of those people can't play

[FAX]

Yeah ... although it's true that a lot of guitarists work out riffs on the acoustic (the general rule of thumb is that, if you can knock it out on the acoustic, you can definitely play it on the electric), if it were me, I'd rather my first axe be an electric. If I'm starting out, I'd rather sound like Van Halen than Van Morrison. Besides, electric guitars look cooler.

FAX

[Huffman83]

But it doesn't cover up the fact that many of those people can't play

Of course, but you can't deny you get away with sloppy playing w/ a lot more gain.

I'm finding this out now that I've gone from a heavy sounding band to a surf band. Going from High gain Mesa/Marshall set ups to a Fender clean w/ just a hint of overdrive has made me clean up the playing considerably.

[petegz28]

Yeah ... although it's true that a lot of guitarists work out riffs on the acoustic (the general rule of thumb is that, if you can knock it out on the acoustic, you can definitely play it on the electric), if it were me, I'd rather my first axe be an electric. If I'm starting out, I'd rather sound like Van Halen than Van Morrison. Besides, electric guitars look cooler.

FAX

Well no doubt it looks cooler and sounds cooler. But if someone is to ask me for advice I would have to say the best way to learn is on an acoustic. That's not to say to not buy them an electric as they start to learn.

[DaneMcCloud]

Of course, but you can't deny you get away with sloppy playing w/ a lot more gain.

Not from my standpoint. If someone's a sloppy player, it doesn't matter if they're playing through a Framus Cobra or a '65 Fender Twin.

Sloppy is sloppy.

I'm finding this out now that I've gone from a heavy sounding band to a surf band. Going from High gain Mesa/Marshall set ups to a Fender clean w/ just a hint of overdrive has made me clean up the playing considerably.

Well, that's cool! Whatever makes you better player...

[DaneMcCloud]

Well no doubt it looks cooler and sounds cooler. But if someone is to ask me for advice I would have to say the best way to learn is on an acoustic. That's not to say to not buy them an electric as they start to learn.

And probably 9.5 times out of 10, that kid is going to quit because it's too difficult and doesn't sound like the music they're learning and wanting to emulate.

Unless they're learning campfire songs.

And for the record, it makes absolutely no difference if a player decides to pick up the acoustic guitar later. They're two completely different instruments and it's ridiculous to imply they're the same.

[petegz28]

Of course, but you can't deny you get away with sloppy playing w/ a lot more gain.

I'm finding this out now that I've gone from a heavy sounding band to a surf band. Going from High gain Mesa/Marshall set ups to a Fender clean w/ just a hint of overdrive has made me clean up the playing considerably.

It's to the point now it's insane. Don't get me wrong, Zak Wylde is a decent player, but a friend of mine sent me a youtube link of him live and I swear there was so many layers of tone and gain that really it just turned me off of the whole thing. I am all for cranking the gain to 10 and shredding but it seems that these days these guitarists are depending on gear for their sound and not their fingers. If you plugged Zak Wylde into a standard Marshall stack he would probably sound like shit cause he doesn't have the tons upon tons of distortion to get the sound for him. Just my opinion.

[petegz28]

And probably 9.5 times out of 10, that kid is going to quit because it's too difficult and doesn't sound like the music they're learning and wanting to emulate.

Unless they're learning campfire songs.

And for the record, it makes absolutely no difference if a player decides to pick up the acoustic guitar later. They're two completely different instruments and it's ridiculous to imply they're the same.

Excuse me? They are both guitars with the same amount of strings and the notes are the same. Yea, you can do a lot more stunt work on an electric. But you get the best fundamentals from playing an acoustic. You'll have better stretcing ability, better ability for chords and your picking will be more solid.

And all I said, Dane, was to take lessons and learn the chords and scales and practice the chords and scales on an acoustic. Then if you want, pick up the electric and apply what you learned and practiced on the acoustic. View it as using a donut on your baseball bat before you get in the batter's box.

[DaneMcCloud]

It's to the point now it's insane. Don't get me wrong, Zak Wylde is a decent player, but a friend of mine sent me a youtube link of him live and I swear there was so many layers of tone and gain that really it just turned me off of the whole thing. I am all for cranking the gain to 10 and shredding but it seems that these days these guitarists are depending on gear for their sound and not their fingers. If you plugged Zak Wylde into a standard Marshall stack he would probably sound like shit cause he doesn't have the tons upon tons of distortion to get the sound for him. Just my opinion.

You're opinion is of course, incorrect.

I'm not the biggest Zakk fan in the world (for reasons I'm not going to detail in this forum) but having been in the same room with him on a number of occasions, he's not sloppy, whatsoever.

He's boring, redundant and hasn't come up with a cool lick in 22 years, but he can most certainly play.

And he can even play his Epiphone acoustic in which his tech scalloped the fingerboard.

LMAO

[Huffman83]

It's to the point now it's insane. Don't get me wrong, Zak Wylde is a decent player, but a friend of mine sent me a youtube link of him live and I swear there was so many layers of tone and gain that really it just turned me off of the whole thing. I am all for cranking the gain to 10 and shredding but it seems that these days these guitarists are depending on gear for their sound and not their fingers. If you plugged Zak Wylde into a standard Marshall stack he would probably sound like shit cause he doesn't have the tons upon tons of distortion to get the sound for him. Just my opinion.

He'd sound like Zakk Wylde no matter what you plugged him into. What I don't get is why so many people like his tone. But then again I don't like boosting and I hate stereo chorus sounds....Also I get it, you like pinch harmonics. Cool, that's enough!

Talented guy though.

[petegz28]

You're opinion is of course, incorrect.

I'm not the biggest Zakk fan in the world (for reasons I'm not going to detail in this forum) but having been in the same room with him on a number of occasions, he's not sloppy, whatsoever.

He's boring, redundant and hasn't come up with a cool lick in 22 years, but he can most certainly play.

And he can even play his Epiphone acoustic in which his tech scalloped the fingerboard.

LMAO

I don't care what you and Zak did in a room together that turned you off of him. I said he was a decent player.

[DaneMcCloud]

Excuse me? They are both guitars with the same amount of strings and the notes are the same. Yea, you can do a lot more stunt work on an electric. But you get the best fundamentals from playing an acoustic. You'll have better stretcing ability, better ability for chords and your picking will be more solid.

And all I said, Dane, was to take lessons and learn the chords and scales and practice the chords and scales on an acoustic. Then if you want, pick up the electric and apply what you learned and practiced on the acoustic. View it as using a donut on your baseball bat before you get in the batter's box.

Urine idiot.

Go ahead an play "Stranger Things Have Happened" by the Foo Fighters on your Strat or Les Paul and tell me it's the same instrument.

While they share six strings and possibly the same tuning (unless you've opted for an open or Nashville tuning on either), they're as different as the bass guitar and stand up bass.

But I'm sure that you recommend that anyone wanting to learn bass guitar start with as stand up as well.

LMAO

[CosmicPal]

I started off with an acoustic guitar when I was a kid and then I went to an electric guitar in my teens. The electric drove my parents and the entire family crazy because I did nothing but crank the speakers up in my room.

I learned better with the acoustic because there were no distractions, and as a kid, I focused better on the acoustic.

Sadly, I lost interest in playing all together because I did not come from a musical family and this is one of the most important things for a kid wanting to learn a musical instrument- having a family with strong musical ties, someone to practice with, someone to jam with, learning songs, playing songs together, etc. It's very challenging when you go it alone.

[DaneMcCloud]

I don't care what you and Zak did in a room together that turned you off of him. I said he was a decent player.

What? NO you did not (and FTR, it wasn't one incident).

If you plugged Zak Wylde into a standard Marshall stack he would probably sound like shit cause he doesn't have the tons upon tons of distortion to get the sound for him. Just my opinion.

That's as big an insult as you could possibly hurl upon someone that you've never seen or heard play outside of a record.

[petegz28]

He'd sound like Zakk Wylde no matter what you plugged him into. What I don't get is why so many people like his tone. But then again I don't like boosting and I hate stereo chorus sounds....Also I get it, you like pinch harmonics. Cool, that's enough!

Talented guy though.

Well, I love pinch harmonics. Though I am more partial to their use as applied by Lynch and Satriani. And he had a good sound with his 1st round with Ozzy. His sound in this clip from BLC was just so overly prorcessed sounding it was not very appealing to me.

[petegz28]

What? NO you did not (and FTR, it wasn't one incident).



That's as big an insult as you could possibly hurl upon someone that you've never seen or heard play outside of a record.



Dane, go back and read a little slower. I most certainly said Zak Wylde was a decent player.

You hurl insults at people you don't know all the time. So what's the dif?

[DaneMcCloud]

He'd sound like Zakk Wylde no matter what you plugged him into. What I don't get is why so many people like his tone. But then again I don't like boosting and I hate stereo chorus sounds....Also I get it, you like pinch harmonics. Cool, that's enough!

Talented guy though.

I don't care for his "tone" because it's so processed.

I can't get into too much detail here (I prefer my identity stay private), Zakk used TWO Boss DS-1's in front of his JCM800 - one for rhythm and one for lead, along with TWO Dunlop Rotovibe's.

Jimmy Dunlap and I freakin' drank our asses off in Vegas one night and the punchline was always "Two ROTOVIBES!".

My wife didn't think it was so funny.

[DaneMcCloud]

Dane, go back and read a little slower. I most certainly said Zak Wylde was a decent player.

You hurl insults at people you don't know all the time. So what's the dif?

You said he was decent, then said he probably sucked when not plugged into a Marshall.

Yeah, that's quite an endorsement.

[petegz28]

I don't care for his "tone" because it's so processed.

I can't get into too much detail here (I prefer my identity stay private), Zakk used TWO Boss DS-1's in front of his JCM800 - one for rhythm and one for lead, along with TWO Dunlop Rotovibe's.

Jimmy Dunlap and I freakin' drank our asses off in Vegas last night and the punchline was always "Two ROTOVIBES!".

My wife didn't think it was so funny.

I liked the Metaltronix amps he used on No Rest for the Wicked. He had a good thick tone that didn't sound so processed on that album.

[Huffman83]

I hear his tone and just hear that high end haze no matter what era. But then again...tone isn't everything, but it helps.

I don't however imagine him being able to ping his way through a set with a twin and a strat.

[petegz28]

You said he was decent, then said he probably sucked when not plugged into a Marshall.

Yeah, that's quite an endorsement.

I said he probably wouldn't sound as good if he WAS plugged into a standard Marshall stack. I could be wrong. It's just my experience that when someone uses such a processed sound like he does there is a reason.

Then again I had a guitar teacher friend of mine swear Zak was better than Satriani. I will disagree with that but to each their own, I guess.

[petegz28]

I hear his tone and just hear that high end haze no matter what era. But then again...tone isn't everything, but it helps.

I don't however imagine him being able to ping his way through a set with a twin and a strat.

Well in this clip I saw he was even using active pickups. I cringe at those. Hate em'! Now, I like hot pickups, I have a Duncan Invader in my Ibanez, which used to be anyway the hottest pickup you could use without going active. Just something about plugging batteries into a guitar that rubs me the wrong way.

[Huffman83]

It's weird...If you told me someones rig was a JCM 800 w/ 6550 power tubes, boosted w/ an OD with a wah, rotovibe and chorus pedal. I wouldn't think it would sound processed.

Then tell me I had to use EMG's in a Les Paul...then I might understand.

[DaneMcCloud]

I said he probably wouldn't sound as good. I could be wrong. It's just my experience that when someone uses such a processed sound like he does there is a reason.

Then again I had a guitar teacher friend of mine swear Zak was better than Satriani. I will disagree with that but to each their own, I guess.

No, Zakk is nowhere near the player of Satriani. Not even close.

He's a redundant, pentatonic player with a history of constantly repeating himself.

He's not even close technically (or creatively) to Randy Rhodes or Jake (who was a fucking monster player), let alone a genius like Satch.

That guy was either pulling your leg or a fucking idiot.

[DaneMcCloud]

I liked the Metaltronix amps he used on No Rest for the Wicked. He had a good thick tone that didn't sound so processed on that album.

I hate Lee Jackson more than you can imagine

[petegz28]

It's weird...If you told me someones rig was a JCM 800 w/ 6550 power tubes, boosted w/ an OD with a wah, rotovibe and chorus pedal. I wouldn't think it would sound processed.

Then tell me I had to use EMG's in a Les Paul...then I might understand.

I'd be very surprised if Zak Wylde wasn't running some heavy compression in his chain somewhere.

[DaneMcCloud]

It's weird...If you told me someones rig was a JCM 800 w/ 6550 power tubes, boosted w/ an OD with a wah, rotovibe and chorus pedal. I wouldn't think it would sound processed.

Then tell me I had to use EMG's in a Les Paul...then I might understand.

TWO DS-1's (not OD-1's) and TWO Rotovibes.

That's a lot of shit.

And I am no fan of EMG's.

[DaneMcCloud]

I'd be very surprised if Zak Wylde wasn't running some heavy compression in his chain somewhere.

Nope, just the distortion pedals

[petegz28]

I hate Lee Jackson more than you can imagine

Yea but that was a good thick sound. Although he did dub his rythms 4 times over on that album too.

[petegz28]

Nope, just the distortion pedals

Are they cranked all the way up? Along with heads being cranked to 10 as well?

[petegz28]

No, Zakk is nowhere near the player of Satriani. Not even close.

He's a redundant, pentatonic player with a history of constantly repeating himself.

He's not even close technically (or creatively) to Randy Rhodes or Jake (who was a ****ing monster player), let alone a genius like Satch.

That guy was either pulling your leg or a ****ing idiot.

Let us get one thing straight. Randy Rhodes is GOD! George Lynch and Joe Satriani are his Angels.

And the guy who told me that is a twanger anyway with his tele's. He had a woody for Zak cause he could do chicken pickin'.

[Huffman83]

TWO DS-1's (not OD-1's) and TWO Rotovibes.

That's a lot of shit.

And I am no fan of EMG's.

Oh I got what you were saying. I might understand that if they were set up at different parts of the stage and or had different settings.

But the two rotovibes...wouldn't you just need one since they're stereo?

[DaneMcCloud]

Oh I got what you were saying. I might understand that if they were set up at different parts of the stage and or had different settings.

But the two rotovibes...wouldn't you just need one since they're stereo?

Zakk sometimes has them set the same and sometimes differently.

As I said earlier, Jim(my) Dunlop and I got a good laugh over it.

As for the DS-1's (the orange ones), he'd have one always on as his rhythm sound, then kick in the second for his leads.

[Huffman83]

I hate Lee Jackson more than you can imagine

What no Ampeg Vl-1001 love?

Didn't Jackson mod a lot of those amps of guys mentioned previously (Wylde, Lee, Lynch.)?

[petegz28]

Oh I got what you were saying. I might understand that if they were set up at different parts of the stage and or had different settings.

But the two rotovibes...wouldn't you just need one since they're stereo?

Besides the fact that Zak now looks like a guy who can't decide if he wants to be a hippy or a biker, he is a very redundant player and is totally pentatonic. That was one turn off for me when he was with Ozzy.

[petegz28]

Zakk sometimes has them set the same and sometimes differently.

As I said earlier, Jim(my) Dunlop and I got a good laugh over it.

As for the DS-1's (the orange ones), he'd have one always on as his rhythm sound, then kick in the second for his leads.

That explains a lot. I'm surprised he doesn't get feedback from hell. What are the gain settings on his heads?

[DaneMcCloud]

Let us get one thing straight. Randy Rhodes is GOD! George Lynch and Joe Satriani are his Angels.

Eh, not really.

Rhodes timing was pretty bad, probably due to all the cocaine. If you go back and listen to those records, he rushed a ton of parts. Plus, his tone with that modified Marshall and old Altec 4x12 pretty much sucked ass.

He made a huge leap in terms of playing and creating from album one to album two, but the Believer solo is nearly identical to parts from Revelation Mother Earth.

Lynch pretty much topped out after the first Lynch Mob album and everything since has been "meh" at best.

Satriani however continues to grow and reach new heights with his playing and composition.

Minus Chickenfoot.

[petegz28]

What no Ampeg Vl-1001 love?

Didn't Jackson mod a lot of those amps of guys mentioned previously (Wylde, Lee, Lynch.)?

I haven't liked Jake. E. Lee since he left Ozzy. He said it wasn't his type of music. I thought he was much better playing that style.

[Huffman83]

That explains a lot. I'm surprised he doesn't get feedback from hell. What are the gain settings on his heads?

Would it matter?

TWO ROTOVIBES!

[DaneMcCloud]

What no Ampeg Vl-1001 love?

Didn't Jackson mod a lot of those amps of guys mentioned previously (Wylde, Lee, Lynch.)?

Well, besides the fact that Lee Jackson personally ripped me off on a transaction, in retrospect, his amps were too metallic and not warm enough for my tastes.

Lynch has been through everything and back again, from Marshalls to Soldanos to Bogners to Randalls, Engls, Diezels and on and on. His latest amp is the Dave Friedman Marsha, which is an incredible high gain amp (Jerry Cantrell used it for the majority of the latest AIC record).

But I heard just the other day, Lynch switched back to the Herbert. So who knows?

[petegz28]

Eh, not really.

Rhodes timing was pretty bad, probably due to all the cocaine. If you go back and listen to those records, he rushed a ton of parts. Plus, his tone with that modified Marshall and old Altec 4x12 pretty much sucked ass.

He made a huge leap in terms of playing and creating from album one to album two, but the Believer solo is nearly identical to parts from Revelation Mother Earth.

Lynch pretty much topped out after the first Lynch Mob album and everything since has been "meh" at best.

Satriani however continues to grow and reach new heights with his playing and composition.

Minus Chickenfoot.

You blaspheme!!!! Hope you aren't staning around anything made of metal. Actually I thought Believer was more similar to Crowley really.

I'll admit I haven't listened to Lynch since his first solo album and the two Lynch Mob albums. But Beast from the East is a total masterpiece. He shredded his own stuff in a major way. I love it. I can't listen to the old studio Dokken albums anymore. He is so much better on the live album.

[DaneMcCloud]

I haven't liked Jake. E. Lee since he left Ozzy. He said it wasn't his type of music. I thought he was much better playing that style.

I LOVED all three Badlands records and Jake's cover record that came out a few years back is cool as hell.

I've always been a fan. If you go to Youtube, you'll find some incredible footage of him shredding like no one else on the planet.

He definitely had his own thing going on and it was a shame the way he was fired from Ozzy.

[DaneMcCloud]

You blaspheme!!!! Hope you aren't staning around anything made of metal. Actually I thought Believer was more similar to Crowley really.

Oh, maybe that was it. I can't remember off the top of my head. But both solos from both albums were extremely similar.

I'll admit I haven't listened to Lynch since his first solo album and the two Lynch Mob albums. But Beast from the East is a total masterpiece. He shredded his own stuff in a major way. I love it. I can't listen to the old studio Dokken albums anymore. He is so much better on the live album.

I saw him in a small club (The Key Club) back in 2002. He could still shred but that was the problem: All he did was shred over the songs all night, which made it lame. So Fred Coury and I hit the bar downstairs and proceeded to drink and watch him on the screens down there because it quickly became boring.

[petegz28]

Oh, maybe that was it. I can't remember off the top of my head. But both solos from both albums were extremely similar.



I saw him in a small club (The Key Club) back in 2002. He could still shred but that was the problem: All he did was shred over the songs all night, which made it lame. So Fred Coury and I hit the bar downstairs and proceeded to drink and watch him on the screens down there because it quickly became boring.

Sounds like what happened to Yngwie. I mean, he always ran scales but he used to thrown in a lot of melodic parts as well. Then he just seemed to just run scale after scale after scale all the damn time and constant sweep picks. It's like the dude forgot how to bend the strings or something?

And yea, Believer and Crowley both started off similar and had the same scale run for the most part.

[DaneMcCloud]

Sounds like what happened to Yngwie. I mean, he always ran scales but he used to thrown in a lot of melodic parts as well. Then he just seemed to just run scale after scale after scale all the damn time and constant sweep picks. It's like the dude forgot how to bend the strings or something?

And yea, Believer and Crowley both started off similar and had the same scale run for the most part.

Listening now and you're right: It was Crowley and Believer.

LAME

[petegz28]

Listening now and you're right: It was Crowley and Believer.

LAME

One of my favorite songs off of Diary was S.A.T.O. I was told it was just a quick song used for filler. And you can tell it probably was. I liked it though.

[Huffman83]

That's funny, you guys are figuring out that shredder guitar players...while very talented. Are very boring.

[petegz28]

That's funny, you guys are figuring out that shredder guitar players...while very talented. Are very boring.

Well, there is a difference, imo, between shredders and good guitar players. Good guitar players can shred. Shredders aren't always good guitar players.

Take for instance Pete Frampton. Yea, I know, vocoder, bla bla bla. Dude tore it up when I saw him. Wasn't a bunch of fancy diatonics or exotic scales but just flat got it. Most people looke at me funny when I tell them that.

[DaneMcCloud]

That's funny, you guys are figuring out that shredder guitar players...while very talented. Are very boring.

I figured it out when I was 18 in 1984.

There have been some cool players since then, mainly in the 80's. I still love the interplay between Adrian Smith & Dave Murry, Gary Moore (who's changed careers a few times now), George Lynch's early Lynch Mob work, Warren DeMartini and the aforementioned Joe Satch.

But most of the rest are complete and utter garbage.

[DaneMcCloud]

Well, there is a difference, imo, between shredders and good guitar players. Good guitar players can shred. Shredders aren't always good guitar players.

Take for instance Pete Frampton. Yea, I know, vocoder, bla bla bla. Dude tore it up when I saw him. Wasn't a bunch of fancy diatonics or exotic scales but just flat got it. Most people looke at me funny when I tell them that.

Peter Frampton is a guitar god.

I wore out two copies of Frampton Comes Alive when I was eleven, and I could barely speak when I met him in like 1995.

In case you weren't aware (and I'm not sure if I've shared this) but the entire film, "Almost Famous" was based on Frampton leaving Humble Pie for a solo career. Some of the lines were exact (and I've been told this by people who were there as roadies).

[petegz28]

I figured it out when I was 18 in 1984.

There have been some cool players since then, mainly in the 80's. I still love the interplay between Adrian Smith & Dave Murry, Gary Moore (who's changed careers a few times now), George Lynch's early Lynch Mob work, Warren DeMartini and the aforementioned Joe Satch.

But most of the rest are complete and utter garbage.

DiMartini is a very underrated guitar player. I loved his stuff. Maiden was well, Maiden. I can't take away from Queensryche though. Even if they were an extension of Maiden with a Floyd flavor added in, they produced some great tunes until Empire. After that I didn't like them.

[petegz28]

Actually, it's funny you mention Warren. I guess it was his head that Georgy Lynch wanted so badly. I think Lynch may have borrowed it at one point. But I know he was after Warren for it cause he loved the sound. Can't say I blame him. He had a very punchy yet full sound that really cut through.

[Huffman83]

Peter Frampton is a guitar god.

I wore out two copies of Frampton Comes Alive when I was eleven, and I could barely speak when I met him in like 1995.

In case you weren't aware (and I'm not sure if I've shared this) but the entire film, "Almost Famous" was based on Frampton leaving Humble Pie for a solo career. Some of the lines were exact (and I've been told this by people who were there as roadies).

Like the "Golden God" part?

I like the Lester Bangs parts "Aw, man. You made friends with them? See, friendship is the booze they feed you. They want you to get drunk on feeling like you belong. And hey. I met you. You are not cool. "

[salame]

soooooooooooooooooooo
get a squier strat starter kit
or an epiphone les paul and a cheap fender amp

[petegz28]

soooooooooooooooooooo
get a squier strat starter kit
or an epiphone les paul and a cheap fender amp

I'd go with the Les Paul over the Strat, personally. Fender amps are good, Peavey used to be the good and cheap. Don't know if they still are.

[salame]

I'd go with the Les Paul over the Strat, personally. Fender amps are good, Peavey used to be the good and cheap. Don't know if they still are.

Strat is cheaper
and arguably the better the value
it's really up to the kids preference
I learned on a strat and liked it a lot
I always wanted a les paul also
Now that I have both I much prefer my ES-335 to both of them ;)

[FlaChief58]

Ibanez has a great guitar package for around $150. I bought the acoustic/electric package for myself and love it. It has great sound and comes with everything the beginner needs to get started. :arrow:

[Over-Head]

My nephew's bday is this week and I have a quick question...

What is the best electric guitar for a kid to begin with?

Yamaha? Epiphone?

Suggestions?
Since you want to give your child the best opritunity to play, make sure you cover all bases.
A 68' Les Paul Custom, AND and 84' American Strat :thumb:

Then go out and buy a JCM800 Marshall stack to go with it.
Learn A, E, and D.
Start a metal band :rockon:

[Braincase]

I got my son a Yamaha electric for his 8th birthday. It's a full-size, 25" scale axe, but it's incredibly light. I just can't remember the model.

[DaneMcCloud]

Actually, it's funny you mention Warren. I guess it was his head that Georgy Lynch wanted so badly. I think Lynch may have borrowed it at one point. But I know he was after Warren for it cause he loved the sound. Can't say I blame him. He had a very punchy yet full sound that really cut through.

Actually, the Marshall head that Lynch lusted after was owned by SIR Rehearsal Studios on Sunset. It was modified by Tim Caswell. Lynch used it on Under Lock & Key and Back For the Attack. He offered any amount of money to buy it, but SIR said no.

Ironically, it's the same exact head that Slash used for Appetite.

Warren didn't get into Soldano heads until Ratt's third album. He used the SLO 100 at the behest of their producer at the time, Beau Hill.

[roman vintfeld]

Roman Vintfeld

Get a Squier Stratocaster. It plays better and sounds better than the Fender Stratocaster.

R V

[boogblaster]

anything fender or gibson

[petegz28]

Actually, the Marshall head that Lynch lusted after was owned by SIR Rehearsal Studios on Sunset. It was modified by Tim Caswell. Lynch used it on Under Lock & Key and Back For the Attack. He offered any amount of money to buy it, but SIR said no.

Ironically, it's the same exact head that Slash used for Appetite.

Warren didn't get into Soldano heads until Ratt's third album. He used the SLO 100 at the behest of their producer at the time, Beau Hill.

Is that the purple Marshall head? That was the one I heard so much about Lynch chasing after.

[boogblaster]

Dane who was the guy from New York that played with Springfield on the last song on the R&R hall of fame special on HBO this year ...

[DaneMcCloud]

Is that the purple Marshall head? That was the one I heard so much about Lynch chasing after.

I think that was a Jose Arrendondo modified Plexi.

Lynch used the Jose head on the first Lynch Mob record. On the second record, he used a Bogner Fish, along with Keith Olsen's old Super Lead that was used by John Sykes on the Whitesnake album and by Zakk on his first record with Ozzy.

FTR, Lynch talks a lot of shit in interviews to through people off of his "Tone Trail". As I mentioned earlier, he's constantly changing amps and rigs but ultimately, it always sounds like him.

[DaneMcCloud]

Dane who was the guy from New York that played with Springfield on the last song on the R&R hall of fame special on HBO this year ...

Nils Lofgren?

[siberian khatru]

Like the "Golden God" part?



That was Robert Plant.

[Lzen]

Wow, this turned into a pretty interesting thread.

[Huffman83]

Wow, this turned into a pretty interesting thread.

It kind of went off track there....but probably way over peoples heads when the gear talk started.

[Lzen]

It kind of went off track there....but probably way over peoples heads when the gear talk started.

Well, true. But I liked it. You and pete and Dane know some shit. Interesting stuff.

[siberian khatru]

It kind of went off track there....but probably way over peoples heads when the gear talk started.

I'm not a player (God, I wish I were), but I have a fetish for rock gear. I love to delve into different keyboards, guitars and effects pedals. So I appreciate reading all the neat techie stuff you guys are discussing here.

[Huffman83]

To explain some guitar players and gear, it's just like someone who is a beer or wine connoisseur. Many different opinions and different flavors. But that still doesn't mean they can play worth a shit.

What sucks is...at that entry range of guitars. Everything sucks, so really...it doesn't matter. The kid will still sound like shit. Some starter kits may be a lesser of a necessary evil. But if a kid really wants to play, he'll get the bug and he'll play on anything and eventually just start working up to better gear.

[Braincase]

I'm with you guys. If I won the lottery, the gear I bought after would fill a warehouse.

[Huffman83]

I'm not a player (God, I wish I were), but I have a fetish for rock gear. I love to delve into different keyboards, guitars and effects pedals. So I appreciate reading all the neat techie stuff you guys are discussing here.


It's hopeless for me. And while I don't spend 3 grand on one item...I have a lot of crap that I don't use on a regular basis. I see certain types of guitars, pedals, amps..etc, in pawn shops, music stores, antique shops...and I have to have them.

And sadly as many times as I've bought decent name brand guitars, I have just as many copies made in Japan that are of better quality than stuff that's being made today. I'll pick up the $80 guitar before I pick up a more expensive one.

At this point if I go into a pawn shop and I want to see something, those guys know that they have it priced way too low and I know something they don't about it.

[DaneMcCloud]

It's hopeless for me. And while I don't spend 3 grand on one item...I have a lot of crap that I don't use on a regular basis. I see certain types of guitars, pedals, amps..etc, in pawn shops, music stores, antique shops...and I have to have them.

And sadly as many times as I've bought decent name brand guitars, I have just as many copies made in Japan that are of better quality than stuff that's being made today. I'll pick up the $80 guitar before I pick up a more expensive one.

At this point if I go into a pawn shop and I want to see something, those guys know that they have it priced way too low and I know something they don't about it.

Then you're lucky. You can't find ANYTHING in a pawn shop in LA that's worth a shit because there are too many full time gear guys ravaging those places and putting them on ebay. As a matter of fact, since Ebay, you can't find anything anywhere.

And you're right about the MIJ gear: It's far superior to anything made in the USA. The Fender Reissues (guitars and basses) are amazing, so much so, that they aren't allowed to be sold in the US anymore. If you want a MIJ bass or guitar, you have to buy directly from Japan.

Same thing with the Epiphone Elitists, which were recently discontinued for the most part. The quality of the wood, finished, fret jobs and nuts were superior to anything coming out of Nashville and began cutting into their sales, so they scuttled the division.

I've played $5,000 dollar 355's and Les Pauls that feel and sound like shit, yet a $1,200 Epi Elitist is a dream right off the shelf.

It's bullshit.

[Huffman83]

Yeah, a friend of mine is of L.A. told me in L.A his Harmony Rocket guitar which is cosmetically a 6 out of 10. Worth 1 grand.

Fucker goes to estate sales of old people all over Missouri and finds blackface Fender amps for a couple hundred bucks. Even at $600 bucks locals in Missouri won't play ball in a bidding war w/ him for a Bandmaster head and 2x15 cabinet.

[DaneMcCloud]

Yeah, a friend of mine is of L.A. told me in L.A his Harmony Rocket guitar which is cosmetically a 6 out of 10. Worth 1 grand.

Fucker goes to estate sales of old people all over Missouri and finds blackface Fender amps for a couple hundred bucks. Even at $600 bucks locals in Missouri won't play ball in a bidding war w/ him for a Bandmaster head and 2x15 cabinet.

I bought a Blackface Twin in the 90's at Black Market Music for $250.00. That place was the BOMB for vintage gear at reasonable prices. The bummer thing is that it was stolen a few years later.

Too bad all of the profits went up the owner's nose, thus forcing him into to bankruptcy and foreclosure.

[Dayze]

I started out at 13 playing acoustic, and learning bluegrass before transitioning to an electric 2 years later. Granted bluegrass wasn't 'cool' but there's stuff from that first 6 months I still use today with regard to cross picking, attack & other picking dynamics, and overall fret-hand/pick hand coordination. THe cross/alternate picking came in handy when playing Metallica (Battery & Master of Puppets spefically)

there are two schools of thought; electric first, or acoustic.
Electric for the kid who you think will quit playing in 2 months; or who will never move beyond power chords/drop d tunings and only learn 'just enough' of a song to be recognizable. I knew tons of kids who 'played' , but only knew riffs/hooks of certains songs, or only knew the first 20 seconds; or knew various parts throughout butnever put it all together. Electric affords you the ability to slop through a majority of songs and never realy learn anything; not to mention being woefully out of tune w/out knowing it

acoustic for the kid who wants to actually learn the instrument and the fundamentals.

Finger pain/callouses are a part of the instrument; it's either now or later. Once developed, they take a long time to go away. Guarantee you if you build up callouses on an acoustic, full-step bends on an electric are gravy; not to mention it allows you to play electric with heavier strings (AC/DC, SRV) to get better tone.

all depends on which kid your nephew is.

[DaneMcCloud]

I started out at 13 playing acoustic, and learning bluegrass before transitioning to an electric 2 years later. Granted bluegrass wasn't 'cool' but there's stuff from that first 6 months I still use today with regard to cross picking, attack, and overall fret-hand/pick hand coordination.

there are two schools of thoguh; electric first, or acoustic.
Electric for the kid who you think will quit playing in 2 months; or who will never move beyond power chords/drop d tunings. Electric affords you the ability to slop through a majority of songs and never realy learn anything; not to mention being woefully out of tune w/out knowing it

acoustic for the kid who wants to actually learn the instrument.

Finger pain/callouses are a part of the instrument; it's either now or later. Once developed, they take a long time to go away.

all depends on which kid your nephew is.

Sorry, I don't buy that theory.

I've had hundreds of students over the years (well, back in the 80's) that most certainly would have quit if they hadn't have started out with a cheap Fender, Ibanez or Epi because they WANTED TO PLAY ROCK.

Sticking a kid with an acoustic guitar that wants to play rock and metal is a complete and utter waste of time and money.

[Dayze]

Sorry, I don't buy that theory.

I've had hundreds of students over the years (well, back in the 80's) that most certainly would have quit if they hadn't have started out with a cheap Fender, Ibanez or Epi because they WANTED TO PLAY ROCK.

Sticking a kid with an acoustic guitar that wants to play rock and metal is a complete and utter waste of time and money.

That's fair.
I think it's all dependant on the kid and their level of committment etc, there's no 'right' answer. I think it's critical the kid stay with it for a good period of time before they decide whetehr or not to give it up. I've seen a lot of kids get an electric (and acoustic too, for that matter), and then quit in 3 months because they can't play like *insert their favorite guitarist here *, mostly because they didn't have a foundation. Either way -acoustic/electric - they should learn the fundamentals instead of jumping into a tablature book/online.
...sorry...I got off topic on that one.:D



I was just different I suppose. I moved from acoustic into rock/metal for years before moving to back to rock/blues. I didn't meant to imply that i learned bluegrass styles, and stuck with that style the entire time. It was jut my dad played that way and that's how I learned; once I had the basics I moved on to Metallica tablature and knocked it out in no time flat.

[Huffman83]

I would have been more well off if I had started on an acoustic. But I didn't. I had a cheap POS Memphis guitar and a POS Kustom combo amp (I wish I still had that btw.) and by some situation previously mentioned in this thread (I didn't start lessons my first year, non musical family.) I shouldn't be playing the guitar to this day.

I was determined to play. I sat in my room for hours learning how to play. Watching friends play who just started guitar lessons and picking up everything I could. Started getting lessons, started learning Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Cream, SRV, Stray Cats, Rush rifs...

Then I discovered punk rock.

Worst and best thing that could ever happen to me.

[Lzen]

Sorry, I don't buy that theory.

I've had hundreds of students over the years (well, back in the 80's) that most certainly would have quit if they hadn't have started out with a cheap Fender, Ibanez or Epi because they WANTED TO PLAY ROCK.

Sticking a kid with an acoustic guitar that wants to play rock and metal is a complete and utter waste of time and money.

I tend to agree with this.

I started out with an electric. Had many electrics before I ever bought my first acoustic.

[Jawshco]

I think Ibenez guitars are the best starter guitars. They usually have a pretty clean tonal pallette. Cheap Fenders tend to sound twangy, which is okay for country and punk, but not for everything. Epi's, I love, but they're not as playable for beginners and the cheap ones won't have the whammy option and they're tough to get all the harmonics on. I don't care for First act, schecter, or Danelectro Guitars, but those usually have attractive price tags.