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Count Alex's Losses
05-11-2010, 04:03 PM
http://kan.scout.com/2/969209.html

<table><tbody><tr><td valign="top">Josh Scotten (Point)

Dexter McCluster might be he most exciting player taken by the Kansas City Chiefs in NFL Draft. But let’s not forget there is a reason 32 teams passed on him before the Chiefs took him near the top of the second round.
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Despite compiling 3,600 total yards of offense and finding the end zone 22 times, team after team passed on the former Ole Miss superstar.

It would be easy to blame NFL teams for being skittish in regards to McClusters’ 5’8”, 171 pound frame. That size may cut it in the college ranks but not in the NFL; at least not as an every down player. To their credit though, the Chiefs took him that high because obviously they didn’t feel any of those shortcomings were an issue.

It is interesting with other needs on the board, the Chiefs brass didn’t think an overflow of running backs was a problem they could live with heading into training camp. They passed on DT Terrence Cody (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4369999) and DE Sergio Kindle (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4225955) so they could plug McCluster into their offense as a receiver.

And looking at their roster this makes sense when you consider the Chiefs receiving core isn’t deep or talented. Last year Todd Haley pegged Lance Long as his pet project. It failed. And they recently signed David Grimes. So do we really need another grossly undersized receiver?

Those negatives could hood signs for the Chiefs, who may have reached on a player they just didn’t need. But as we learned after the draft, it was the Chiefs belief that he was far too versatile a player to pass up. But does not mean it will work out in the Chiefs favor?

As a rookie and a second round pick, he’s going to get a lot of leeway to earn his opportunity to impact the offense and/or special teams. Still he’ll have to work harder than everyone else because most will doubt he can make the jump to the NFL based on his size alone.

If the Chiefs use him as both a slot receiver and a running back, he’ll have to overcome the daunting task of learning the playbook for multiple positions. What happens if they also line him up as a quarterback or use him as a return specialist? That’s a lot to ask of a rookie.

But that’s likely the plan. The Chiefs drafted McCluster for his ability to play multiple positions in Charlie Weis’s new offense. But if the Chiefs throw too much at him, they may end up with a player that can’t play any at all.

Nicholas Athan (Counterpoint)

Yes size matters but the heart of a player cant be measured. McCluster is Dante Hall on speed. He’s also twice the receiver, a better all around athlete, a better person and might end up being the Chiefs best rookie when it’s all said in done regarding the 2010 season. <table align="right" cellspacing="7" width="220"><tbody><tr><td>http://media.scout.com/media/image/76/766179.jpg
Can McCluster handle different roles for KC?
Getty Images </td></tr></tbody></table>

+Charlie Weis has an explosive player in McCluster that he’ll be tempted to use in other areas. But I think he’ll contain his focus at wide receiver. The Chiefs must develop a true slot receiver and they are hoping that this kid will become their New England version of Wes Welker (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4845512).

And that’s why the Chiefs drafted him this high. Another reason was that the Philadelphia Eagles were about to pluck him off the board a few picks later.

What McCluster brings to the Chiefs offense is killer speed and athleticism. He also brings a new weapon for Quarterback Matt Cassel (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4210794). The Chiefs are pinning all of their hopes on their second year signal caller and they know they need more weapons at his disposal in order for the Chiefs to realize that the $63 million they’ve invested in him pays dividends this season.

With so much paid to the offensive line with a new center Casey Wiegmann (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4847603) and Guard Ryan Lilja (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4852794), the drafting of McCluster makes a lot of sense.

The only danger the Chiefs have in messing up this pick is if they over use the kid. I’d avoid any ideas about putting him in the backfield with Jamaal Charles (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4307409) unless they use him as a decoy and split him out as a receiver.

They’re already going to use him on special teams as a return man and that’s more than enough McCluster we need to see on the field.

But the kid is so talented and such a competitor they might find it hard to limit him to one aspect of the offense.
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chiefsnorth
05-11-2010, 04:07 PM
your post reads like neither person ever saw him play a down.
Posted via Mobile Device

wilas101
05-11-2010, 04:17 PM
wouldn't the new england version of wes welker be wes welker?

Brock
05-11-2010, 04:18 PM
Already been done better here.

Marcellus
05-11-2010, 04:19 PM
Horrible. Trying to knock the kid because he went 3rd in the 2nd round and wasn't drafted in the 1st round?

Other teams were skittish because they didn't take him in the top 35 picks?

Maybe we should have drafted Tebow instead. He went in the first round so he must be destined for greatness.

DMAC
05-11-2010, 04:21 PM
Horrible. Trying to knock the kid because he went 3rd in the 2nd round and wasn't drafted in the 1st round?

Other teams were skittish because they didn't take him in the top 35 picks?

Maybe we should have drafted Tebow instead. He went in the first round so he must be destined for greatness.Yes that is dumb...its not like he was supposed to be the 1st pick and dropped.

DaneMcCloud
05-11-2010, 04:24 PM
Those negatives could hood signs for the Chiefs

What the fuck does this sentence mean?

Is this English?

Rudy lost the toss
05-11-2010, 04:37 PM
holy shit...some teams passed on him Twice!!!

Fish
05-11-2010, 04:38 PM
Another reason was that the Philadelphia Eagles were about to pluck him off the board a few picks later.

WTF? I want to stab someone every time I hear this horseshit. Rumor that another team might draft a guy should never ever ever be your justification for drafting him. Needs are vastly different between different teams. Because somebody else wanted him doesn't mean he will be valuable in our system. Dumbest shitty justification ever.

KCrockaholic
05-11-2010, 04:38 PM
Why do these guys have jobs?

Rudy lost the toss
05-11-2010, 04:38 PM
i don't believe the Bears or Panthers passed on him

Sofa King
05-11-2010, 04:39 PM
Yeah... another priceless article.... for laughs...

Rudy lost the toss
05-11-2010, 04:40 PM
I hate the "heart" argument. It's like listening to a college basketball fan

Fish
05-11-2010, 04:45 PM
If the heart of a player could be measured.... Mark McMillian, Marc Boerigter, Boomer Grigsby would each be in the HOF.....

Farzin
05-11-2010, 04:45 PM
"But let’s not forget there is a reason 32 teams passed on him before the Chiefs took him near the top of the second round."

i don't believe the Bears or Panthers passed on him

Looks like Lemon Pie has done more research than Josh Scotten.

Who cares if 32 teams (according to Scotten) passed up on him? I just stopped reading after that..

FAX
05-11-2010, 04:48 PM
I have no idea where he was on other teams' boards, but I do think the hood signs are generally positive.

FAX

CaliforniaChief
05-11-2010, 04:50 PM
Isn't there a reason the Patriots passed on Tom Brady 5 times?

Ralphy Boy
05-11-2010, 05:01 PM
How does anyone know that he is a better person than Dante Hall? That's just stupid. I guess Dexter has never been to a strip joint?

mikey23545
05-11-2010, 05:06 PM
Those negatives could hood signs for the Chiefs, who may have reached on a player they just didn’t need.

Say what?

But does not mean it will work out in the Chiefs favor?

Does not mean it good writing?

Yes size matters but the heart of a player cant be measured.

His heart is slanted?


There are plenty of middle school students who could churn out better prose than this.

Simply Red
05-11-2010, 05:08 PM
he pretty much single handedly handled UF last year, FWIW, look it up.

Fritz88
05-11-2010, 05:09 PM
they really go out of their way to fuck up every sentence.

Fritz88
05-11-2010, 05:10 PM
What the **** does this sentence mean?

Is this English?

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

chiefzilla1501
05-11-2010, 05:13 PM
WTF? I want to stab someone every time I hear this horseshit. Rumor that another team might draft a guy should never ever ever be your justification for drafting him. Needs are vastly different between different teams. Because somebody else wanted him doesn't mean he will be valuable in our system. Dumbest shitty justification ever.

It's very relevant when people label him a reach. Especially when you couple that with Rick Gosselin's comment that McCluster was a top 3 WR/RB on a lot of teams' boards. And yes, given that Philly is a good drafting team, it says a lot that they thought highly enough of him to slot him in the high second.

I don't think it's a justification. Agreed. But it's definitely a more than strong defense against anyone who says we reached or that he's not worth the value of the pick. Especially when anyone suggests that because Baltimore took Cody and Kindle, and because they're such a good drafting team, that means the Chiefs whiffed by passing on them.

Mr. Laz
05-11-2010, 05:14 PM
WTF? I want to stab someone every time I hear this horseshit. Rumor that another team might draft a guy should never ever ever be your justification for drafting him. Needs are vastly different between different teams. Because somebody else wanted him doesn't mean he will be valuable in our system. Dumbest shitty justification ever.This

also i still wonder whether or not Philly was going to really take him or the T.V. Network just mess up there "McCluster is on the phone with who was ready to pick"


i hope McCluster is a "reggie bush" for us but i still think we would of been better served by taking one of the many full-time regular position starters that were still on the board that had slipped out of the 1st round.

probably a dozen 1st round type talents that would start full-time for us.

Players rarely live up to the hype and from the beginning Cluster's "hype" is a #3 slot receiver and a returner.

A team with as much "suck" as we have shouldn't of had to start with that low of ceiling.


hope to gawd he exceed expectations or we screw the pooch in round 2 again

Marcellus
05-11-2010, 05:15 PM
Isn't there a reason the Patriots passed on Tom Brady 5 times?

:D:)

chiefzilla1501
05-11-2010, 05:17 PM
This

also i still wonder whether or not Philly was going to really take him or the T.V. Network just mess up there "McCluster is on the phone with who was ready to pick"


i hope McCluster is a "reggie bush" for us but i still think we would of been better served by taking one of the many full-time regular position starters that were still on the board that had slipped out of the 1st round.

probably a dozen 1st round type talents that would start full-time for us.

Sal Palaontonio is ridiculously connected to the Eagles. And he has a strong reptuation. It has nothing to do with misinterpreting the TV screen.

And Rick Gosselin is arguably the most connected when it comes to the draft.

It was slotted right. Chiefs' fans seem to be the only people arguing against it.

LaChapelle
05-11-2010, 05:18 PM
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=imghp&q=hood+signs&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Mr. Laz
05-11-2010, 05:20 PM
Sal Palaontonio is ridiculously connected to the Eagles. And he has a strong reptuation. It has nothing to do with misinterpreting the TV screen.

And Rick Gosselin is arguably the most connected when it comes to the draft.

It was slotted right. Chiefs' fans seem to be the only people arguing against it.
still JUST a rumor...


and we still passed on potential 1st round talent starter for a role player.

Philly is in a far better situation to take a role player to replace Westbrook than we are

Dicky McElephant
05-11-2010, 05:22 PM
still JUST a rumor...


and we still passed on potential 1st round talent starter for a role player.

Philly is in a far better situation to take a role player to replace Westbrook than we are

Honestly.....I'm not condoning passing on any of those players....but a lot of them did have issues that could have made Pioli go a different route.

chiefzilla1501
05-11-2010, 05:25 PM
still JUST a rumor...


and we still passed on potential 1st round talent starter for a role player.

Philly is in a far better situation to take a role player to replace Westbrook than we are

Jesus Fucking Christ.

Rick Gosselin is one of the most connected in the biz when it comes to the draft. He said the Chiefs had him slotted right, based on what his sources tell him. And that McCluster was the top receiver AND running back on a lot of team's boards when the Chiefs picked.

Passing up on a potential first round talent starter isn't a big deal if end up taking a potential first round talent in his place.

And what exactly is your definition of a role player? Is it Golden Tate, who will most likely end up in the same slot role? Is it Sean Lee and Terence Cody, who are both liabilities on passing downs that they won't be every-down players?

Is Jamaal Charles a role player because he's only going to get 15 carries a game?

Chiefs Rool
05-11-2010, 05:26 PM
on draft day I wasn't too pleased. But I'm warming up to this kid, the more I see and read about him, the more I'm happy he's a Chief. I think he's gonna kick some ass and take some names.

Mr. Laz
05-11-2010, 05:30 PM
Honestly.....I'm not condoning passing on any of those players....but a lot of them did have issues that could have made Pioli go a different route.
there was a dozen of them though ... they couldn't find 1 out the group that was more valuable to us that McGadget?

chiefzilla1501
05-11-2010, 05:32 PM
there was a dozen of them though ... they couldn't find 1 out the group that was more valuable to us that McGadget?

Apparently a lot of teams disagree with you that Mc"Gadget" was unvaluable on their boards at that slot.

I don't understand your argument. I've seen some critics that don't agree with the pick. I have barely seen any critics that disagree with the slotting of it.

Hog Farmer
05-11-2010, 05:32 PM
WTF? I want to stab someone every time I hear this horseshit. Rumor that another team might draft a guy should never ever ever be your justification for drafting him. Needs are vastly different between different teams. Because somebody else wanted him doesn't mean he will be valuable in our system. Dumbest shitty justification ever.

I think it just means that if we wanted him then he wouldn't be available at our next pick.

Mr. Laz
05-11-2010, 05:38 PM
Jesus ****ing Christ.

Rick Gosselin is one of the most connected in the biz when it comes to the draft. He said the Chiefs had him slotted right, based on what his sources tell him. And that McCluster was the top receiver AND running back on a lot of team's boards when the Chiefs picked.

Passing up on a potential first round talent starter isn't a big deal if end up taking a potential first round talent in his place.

And what exactly is your definition of a role player? Is it Golden Tate, who will most likely end up in the same slot role? Is it Sean Lee and Terence Cody, who are both liabilities on passing downs that they won't be every-down players?

Is Jamaal Charles a role player because he's only going to get 15 carries a game?
we'll see

but you can gawd dam bet that one of the guys we passed on for McCluster is going to bite us in the azz. Personally i bet the guy that philly took right after us is going to do it. If Nate Allen is good enough to start on the philly defense then we SCREWED UP.

Because just being a starter for philly would mean he would be one of our best defenders.

misi koa,torell troup,Linval Joseph and Daryl Washington are a few more that could of been huge additions for us.

Hog Farmer
05-11-2010, 05:39 PM
If McCluster had come out next year he would have been a 1st round pic.

chiefzilla1501
05-11-2010, 05:43 PM
we'll see

but you can gawd dam bet that one of the guys we passed on for McCluster is going to bite us in the azz. Personally i bet the guy that philly took right after us is going to do it. If Nate Allen is good enough to start on the philly defense then we SCREWED UP.

Because just being a starter for philly would mean he would be one of our best defenders.

misi koa,torell troup,Linval Joseph and Daryl Washington are a few more that could of been huge additions for us.

I doubt any of those guys will bite us in the ass. Unless you have Ed Reed, Safeties carry maybe the lowest positional value of any draft pick in the game. Washington and Koa Misi aren't great players. They're just guys and they have huge flaws in their game. We didn't screw up by passing on these guys. It will be incredibly easy to find players of that calibre next year. I don't know why we'd pass on "role playing" playmakers in exchange for average full-time players.

Troup, Joseph and Kindle are different stories. But again, I'm not convinced NOse Tackles are some kind of holy grail either. And I'd be more than a bit concerned about Kindle's leg problems.

I get that we need those kinds of players. I don't get the desperation to get them right away.

FAX
05-11-2010, 05:44 PM
we'll see

but you can gawd dam bet that one of the guys we passed on for McCluster is going to bite us in the azz. Personally i bet the guy that philly took right after us is going to do it. If Nate Allen is good enough to start on the philly defense then we SCREWED UP.

Because just being a starter for philly would mean he would be one of our best defenders.

misi koa,torell troup,Linval Joseph and Daryl Washington are a few more that could of been huge additions for us.

It makes you wonder if the whole "character" issue got a little ... out of hand ... with the FO. I can understand why teams background draft prospects, but if the possibility you outline comes to pass, Mr. Laz, one has to consider the possibility that we placed such a high emphasis on "character" that it overbalanced the talent we passed on in more potential impactful players. And, you don't win championships by carrying old ladies' groceries for them.

FAX

Dicky McElephant
05-11-2010, 05:44 PM
Personally i bet the guy that philly took right after us is going to do it. If Nate Allen is good enough to start on the philly defense then we SCREWED UP.

Because just being a starter for philly would mean he would be one of our best defenders.



So you're advocating taking two safeties with our first two picks?

I find it funny that you used to constantly follow me around and talk to me about how I bitched a lot.......and now look at you.

chiefzilla1501
05-11-2010, 05:52 PM
It makes you wonder if the whole "character" issue got a little ... out of hand ... with the FO. I can understand why teams background draft prospects, but if the possibility you outline comes to pass, Mr. Laz, one has to consider the possibility that we placed such a high emphasis on "character" that it overbalanced the talent we passed on in more potential impactful players. And, you don't win championships by carrying old ladies' groceries for them.

FAX

I agree up to a certain point. 1) I don't think you can say that we valued character over talent when it sounds like most draft gurus in the know say we picked players at mostly the right slots (Arenas was a reach, in my opinion. McCluster not). 2) there's an interesting piece on Peter king's Monday Night QB on Tom Brady. It sounds to me like he's not a big fan of the locker room culture in New England these days:
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Diner-morning-news-A-new-course-for-Brady.html

I think there's a good argument to be made that New England lost their way when they moved away from bringing in quality leaders who understood their role and started replacing them with "me first" players like Moss and Corey Dillon. It's a point Willie McGinest brought up a few months ago too.
http://www.nesn.com/2010/01/willie-mcginest-weighs-in-on-patriots-leadership-issues.html
Where there's smoke there's fire.

Fish
05-11-2010, 05:52 PM
It's very relevant when people label him a reach. Especially when you couple that with Rick Gosselin's comment that McCluster was a top 3 WR/RB on a lot of teams' boards. And yes, given that Philly is a good drafting team, it says a lot that they thought highly enough of him to slot him in the high second.

I don't think it's a justification. Agreed. But it's definitely a more than strong defense against anyone who says we reached or that he's not worth the value of the pick. Especially when anyone suggests that because Baltimore took Cody and Kindle, and because they're such a good drafting team, that means the Chiefs whiffed by passing on them.

I don't agree with that due to differences in team needs. A reach for one team could be considered good value for another team. He might be worth the value of the pick to some teams, but to others that value can vary greatly.

Mr. Laz
05-11-2010, 05:55 PM
So you're advocating taking two safeties with our first two picks?

I find it funny that you used to constantly follow me around and talk to me about how I bitched a lot.......and now look at you.
i've never been shy about bitching and our 2nd round was irritating.


another safety wouldn't be my first choice but i think it would of been better than taking McCluster. A ILB, a NT, a regular WR ... shit, we had tons of options.

I like SS Morgan Burnett too and he would kept Eric Berry back away from the line of scrimmage so much. If we put Eric Berry at Strong Safety to keep Page on the field it will suck.

JASONSAUTO
05-11-2010, 05:59 PM
If we put Eric Berry at Strong Safety to keep Page on the field it will suck.

i agree, thats why i have my fingers crossed that washington could be moved to SS

Mr. Laz
05-11-2010, 06:01 PM
It makes you wonder if the whole "character" issue got a little ... out of hand ... with the FO. I can understand why teams background draft prospects, but if the possibility you outline comes to pass, Mr. Laz, one has to consider the possibility that we placed such a high emphasis on "character" that it overbalanced the talent we passed on in more potential impactful players. And, you don't win championships by carrying old ladies' groceries for them.

FAX
Safety Nate Allen was a team captain at USF and hasn't had any character issues that i know of.

LaChapelle
05-11-2010, 06:01 PM
A renovated stadium standing at an embarrasing 2/3rds empty
if McCluster can help put a few more people in the seats its a win
that's also part of a GM's job

brorth
05-11-2010, 06:19 PM
Yes size matters but the heart of a player cant be measured.

His heart is slanted?


There are plenty of middle school students who could churn out better prose than this.
I, for one, thought that it was brilliant! Pick a definition, they all work!
cant 1 (knt)
n.
1. Angular deviation from a vertical or horizontal plane or surface; an inclination or slope.
2. A slanted or oblique surface.
3.
a. A thrust or motion that tilts something.
b. The tilt caused by such a thrust or motion.
4. An outer corner, as of a building.
v. cant·ed, cant·ing, cants
v.tr.
1. To set at an oblique angle; tilt.
2. To give a slanting edge to; bevel.
3. To change the direction of suddenly.
v.intr.
1. To lean to one side; slant.
2. To take an oblique direction or course; swing around, as a ship.
[Middle English, side, from Old North French, from Vulgar Latin *cantus, corner, from Latin canthus, rim of wheel, tire, of Celtic origin.]
cant 2 (knt)
n.
1. Monotonous talk filled with platitudes.
2. Hypocritically pious language.
3. The special vocabulary peculiar to the members of an underworld group; argot.
4. Cant See Shelta.
5. Whining speech, such as that used by beggars.
6. The special terminology understood among the members of a profession, discipline, or class but obscure to the general population; jargon. See Synonyms at dialect.
intr.v. cant·ed, cant·ing, cants
1. To speak tediously or sententiously; moralize.
2. To speak in argot or jargon.
3. To speak in a whining, pleading tone.
[Anglo-Norman cant, song, singing, from canter, to sing, from Latin cantre; see kan- in Indo-European roots.]
canting·ly adv.
canting·ness n.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
cant1
n
1. insincere talk, esp concerning religion or morals; pious platitudes
2. stock phrases that have become meaningless through repetition
3. specialized vocabulary of a particular group, such as thieves, journalists, or lawyers; jargon
4. singsong whining speech, as used by beggars
vb
(intr) to speak in or use cant
[probably via Norman French canter to sing, from Latin cantāre; used disparagingly, from the 12th century, of chanting in religious services]
canter n
cantingly adv
cant2
n
1. inclination from a vertical or horizontal plane; slope; slant
2. a sudden movement that tilts or turns something
3. the angle or tilt thus caused
4. (Miscellaneous Technologies / Building) a corner or outer angle, esp of a building
5. an oblique or slanting surface, edge, or line
vb (tr)
1. to tip, tilt, or overturn, esp with a sudden jerk
2. (Engineering / Mechanical Engineering) to set in an oblique position
3. (Miscellaneous Technologies / Building) another word for bevel [1]
adj
1. oblique; slanting
2. having flat surfaces and without curves
[C14 (in the sense: edge, corner): perhaps from Latin canthus iron hoop round a wheel, of obscure origin]
cantic adj

Chief Chief
05-11-2010, 06:30 PM
"JOSH, YOU IGNORANT SLUT!!"

philfree
05-11-2010, 06:37 PM
It makes you wonder if the whole "character" issue got a little ... out of hand ... with the FO. I can understand why teams background draft prospects, but if the possibility you outline comes to pass, Mr. Laz, one has to consider the possibility that we placed such a high emphasis on "character" that it overbalanced the talent we passed on in more potential impactful players. And, you don't win championships by carrying old ladies' groceries for them.

FAX

It's not just a character issue. I've heard Pioli and Haley both talk about football I.Q. All these guys have a high football I.Q. as well as high character.

IMO what they are doing is trying to get the right people on the team in the beginning. Then as time goes on and we have a strong locker room we can bring in a player or two who is borderline because the people in the locker room will keep them in line. ie Moss in New England. To build the locker room you need to do it from the get go.


PhilFree:arrow:

Mr. Laz
05-11-2010, 06:44 PM
It's not just a character issue. I've heard Pioli and Haley both talk about football I.Q. All these guys have a high football I.Q. as well as high character.

IMO what they are doing is trying to get the right people on the team in the beginning. Then as time goes on and we have a strong locker room we can bring in a player or two who is borderline because the people in the locker room will keep them in line. ie Moss in New England. To build the locker room you need to do it from the get go.


PhilFree:arrow:i agree


still frustrating :(


it's not like Nate Allen has issues

chiefzilla1501
05-11-2010, 06:48 PM
i agree


still frustrating :(


it's not like Nate Allen has issues

Safety isn't the horse I'd be riding on for this argument.

Mr. Laz
05-11-2010, 06:53 PM
Safety isn't the horse I'd be riding on for this argument.
no ... you'll be riding a little blue smurf who's probably gonna get broken if he touches the ball more than a dozen times a game.

besides ... i'm not "trying to win an argument"

this is about what's best for my team and a don't think grabbing a part time player in the 2nd round is what's best. If you don't want a safety then how about the other positions i've already listed MORE THAN ONCE.

philfree
05-11-2010, 07:00 PM
i agree


still frustrating :(


it's not like Nate Allen has issues



Allen's a good prospect no doubt but they chose the guys they did and they are good prospects too. I had guys in mind that I would have picked but I never thought they would think the same as me. At this point in the NFL nickleback is almost as important as S and really good nickles aren't easy to find. I know that you know that a nickleback isn't just the first backup at CB. It's a multifaceted position. If Arenas is what he supposed to be he will have been a good pick.

PhilFree:arrow:

Ralphy Boy
05-11-2010, 07:17 PM
we'll see

but you can gawd dam bet that one of the guys we passed on for McCluster is going to bite us in the azz. Personally i bet the guy that philly took right after us is going to do it. If Nate Allen is good enough to start on the philly defense then we SCREWED UP.

Because just being a starter for philly would mean he would be one of our best defenders.

misi koa,torell troup,Linval Joseph and Daryl Washington are a few more that could of been huge additions for us.

Part of my issue with McCluster was every idiot who said Philly was going to draft him when it is complete speculation. Philly NEEDED a safety and Schefter and everyone else thought they were going to take one when they traded up and there were rumors circulating well before the draft that they were going to trade up to take one. I said numerous times that Nate Allen would be a stud and if we passed on Berry, he was who I wanted in the 2nd. Berry was my first choice, but I figured the odds weren't real strong that we'd take him. All that being said, EVERYONE knew that the Eagles NEEDED a safety and the fact is that they took one in the 2nd.

Maybe McCluster was ahead of Allen on their board. Was it as a RB, WR or PR/KR? Maybe they would go from having Westbrook who was 200 lbs or Buckhalter (223) to a RB that weighs in at 172 lbs. The lightest RB on their roster weighs 198 lbs so I think its safe to say that they didn't look at him as the replacement for Westbrook. Maybe they wanted him as a WR, considering that DeSean Jackson weighs 175 it would certainly be possible. Maybe they wanted to have him handle punt returns and give Jackson a break. Would they really want to spend another high pick on offense when they just took Maclin in the first last year?

Out of their 13 picks, only 4 were spent on offense and the only WR they took was in the 5th round, Riley Cooper who's 6'4" 220. FB, QB & TE were the other 3 offensive picks. They spent 9 picks on defense and 3 were in the secondary and 4 were LB's.

My guess is that they wanted Allen all along.

If McCluster had come out next year he would have been a 1st round pic.

:BS:

Mr. Laz
05-11-2010, 07:25 PM
Part of my issue with McCluster was every idiot who said Philly was going to draft him when it is complete speculation. Philly NEEDED a safety and Schefter and everyone else thought they were going to take one when they traded up and there were rumors circulating well before the draft that they were going to trade up to take one. I said numerous times that Nate Allen would be a stud and if we passed on Berry, he was who I wanted in the 2nd. Berry was my first choice, but I figured the odds weren't real strong that we'd take him. All that being said, EVERYONE knew that the Eagles NEEDED a safety and the fact is that they took one in the 2nd.

Maybe McCluster was ahead of Allen on their board. Was it as a RB, WR or PR/KR? Maybe they would go from having Westbrook who was 200 lbs or Buckhalter (223) to a RB that weighs in at 172 lbs. The lightest RB on their roster weighs 198 lbs so I think its safe to say that they didn't look at him as the replacement for Westbrook. Maybe they wanted him as a WR, considering that DeSean Jackson weighs 175 it would certainly be possible. Maybe they wanted to have him handle punt returns and give Jackson a break. Would they really want to spend another high pick on offense when they just took Maclin in the first last year?

Out of their 13 picks, only 4 were spent on offense and the only WR they took was in the 5th round, Riley Cooper who's 6'4" 220. FB, QB & TE were the other 3 offensive picks. They spent 9 picks on defense and 3 were in the secondary and 4 were LB's.

My guess is that they wanted Allen all along.



:BS:
agree completely about philly ... at one point people started talking about Allen going around 20-ish in the 1st round.

Berry and Allen would of been a sweet upgrade for our defense


the best thing we can hope for with McCluster imo is for the Chiefs to put him as a WR and just leave him there for awhile. Hopefully his quickness in and out of breaks will give us a "Desean Jackson" to stretch the field.

I seriously doubt any gadgety situation is gonna provide us the value we need to get at 2a this year.

Ralphy Boy
05-11-2010, 07:43 PM
Is it Golden Tate, who will most likely end up in the same slot role? Is it Sean Lee and Terence Cody, who are both liabilities on passing downs that they won't be every-down players?

Is Jamaal Charles a role player because he's only going to get 15 carries a game?

You know the part about DMC that I've come to accept is that I would have been happy if they drafted Tate with that pick and they aren't much different. Sure Tate is more accomplished as a pure receiver and he's faster AND he knows our offense, but in terms of playmaking ability, I do have to give the edge to DMC. You simply can't argue against how dynamic of a player he was in college. Hopefully he can hold up in the NFL.

Neither DMC or Tate ever did much as a returner in college.

we'll see

but you can gawd dam bet that one of the guys we passed on for McCluster is going to bite us in the azz. Personally i bet the guy that philly took right after us is going to do it. If Nate Allen is good enough to start on the philly defense then we SCREWED UP.

Because just being a starter for philly would mean he would be one of our best defenders.

misi koa,torell troup,Linval Joseph and Daryl Washington are a few more that could of been huge additions for us.

I wouldn't have even considered drafting Allen after we got Berry but considering what Haley said about having safeties who are interchangeable, I don't think it would have been a bad idea. This place would have gone absolutely nuts if we had though.

I've said it before and I have no problem saying it again, Allen will be a pro-bowler.

Ralphy Boy
05-11-2010, 07:54 PM
agree completely about philly ... at one point people started talking about Allen going around 20-ish in the 1st round.

Berry and Allen would of been a sweet upgrade for our defense


the best thing we can hope for with McCluster imo is for the Chiefs to put him as a WR and just leave him there for awhile. Hopefully his quickness in and out of breaks will give us a "Desean Jackson" to stretch the field.

I seriously doubt any gadgety situation is gonna provide us the value we need to get at 2a this year.

I agree about the WR deal and I hope your right, but DeSean ran a 4.29 40 whereas DMC ran a 4.53. In fairness to DMC, I think he's as strong, pound for pound, as any player we've seen coming into the league in close to a decade. I'm sure that he's a gym rat, which is a great sign of his work ethic and I would think he got that strong to hold up as a RB. I wonder if he could gain speed if he wasn't as concerned about needing muscle to absorb the pounding a RB takes.

Mr. Laz
05-11-2010, 07:55 PM
Sure Tate is more accomplished as a pure receiver and he's faster AND he knows our offense
those are some pretty key differences

we need a fast,accomplished slot WR who knows our offense

Mr. Laz
05-11-2010, 07:58 PM
I agree about the WR deal and I hope your right, but DeSean ran a 4.29 40 whereas DMC ran a 4.53. In fairness to DMC, I think he's as strong, pound for pound, as any player we've seen coming into the league in close to a decade. I'm sure that he's a gym rat, which is a great sign of his work ethic and I would think he got that strong to hold up as a RB. I wonder if he could gain speed if he wasn't as concerned about needing muscle to absorb the pounding a RB takes.
which is another thing ... people talk about how much speed we added.

DMC and Arenas aren't that fast ... they are quick, not fast.


Berry is the only guy we added with what you would consider "real speed".

Ralphy Boy
05-11-2010, 08:03 PM
those are some pretty key differences

we need a fast,accomplished slot WR who knows are offense

I agree I just don't think that Tate has the same level of gamebreaking ability that DMC does. I was very high on Tate and have said on here more than once that I didn't like the DMC pick when we made it, but I can't deny the talent he has. I wouldn't have picked him, I would have preferred a handful of other players, but the kids got big game and I look forward to seeing what he can do.

JASONSAUTO
05-11-2010, 08:03 PM
which is another thing ... people talk about how much speed we added.

DMC and Arenas aren't that fast ... they are quick, not fast.


Berry is the only guy we added with what you would consider "real speed".

what did dmc run at his pro day?? iirc it was low 4.4 right???
Posted via Mobile Device

JASONSAUTO
05-11-2010, 08:07 PM
cant link from my phone( at least i dont know how...) but it said a 4.42 and 4.45 at his proday.
Posted via Mobile Device

DaneMcCloud
05-11-2010, 08:19 PM
misi koa,torell troup,Linval Joseph and Daryl Washington are a few more that could of been huge additions for us.

Apparently, you haven't read a fucking scouting report on KOA MISI because he's a typical workout warrior that was weak against the pass.

Troup and Joseph both went a full round higher than most expected. I would have like Washington with 2b but I'm not upset that the Chiefs FINALLY have a solid nickel and return man.

Bitch all you want (and obviously, you will) but the Chiefs DID fill needs.

Mr. Laz
05-11-2010, 08:26 PM
what did dmc run at his pro day?? iirc it was low 4.4 right???
Posted via Mobile Devicejust going by memory ...

but i think DMC ran 4.53 and 4.58 at the combine and a 4.45 at his pro day.


for a guy that small those combine times are pretty weak.


THE BIG SAVING GRACE for DMC is his shuttle time was off the charts and that indicates quick as hell. He also "plays" fast.

JASONSAUTO
05-11-2010, 08:28 PM
just going by memory ...

but i think DMC ran 4.53 and 4.58 at the combine and a 4.45 at his pro day.


for a guy that small those combine times are pretty weak.


THE BIG SAVING GRACE for DMC is his shuttle time was off the charts and that indicates quick as hell. He also "plays" fast.

again 4.42 and 4.45 at his proday.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mr. Laz
05-11-2010, 08:30 PM
again 4.42 and 4.45 at his proday.
Posted via Mobile Device
so were you asking what his 40 times were or telling?

didn't i say 4.45?

FD
05-11-2010, 08:33 PM
which is another thing ... people talk about how much speed we added.

DMC and Arenas aren't that fast ... they are quick, not fast.


Berry is the only guy we added with what you would consider "real speed".

I agree, I don't know where anyone is getting this idea that he has "real speed."

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qZNCPOMuXhA&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qZNCPOMuXhA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

JASONSAUTO
05-11-2010, 08:35 PM
so were you asking what his 40 times were or telling?

didn't i say 4.45?

well there were TWO posts there. first i asked then i told. and yes, you said 4.45 but forgot he also ran a FASTER time than that. you remembered the slower times though.....


lol and just gigging ya a little.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mr. Laz
05-11-2010, 08:37 PM
I agree, I don't know where anyone is getting this idea that he has "real speed." <object height="385" width="480">
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qZNCPOMuXhA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="385" width="480"></object>
yea ... i've only seen that post like 20 times so far


looks familiar

<object height="385" width="480">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vemGEI9Iexw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="385" width="480"></object>

BossChief
05-11-2010, 09:00 PM
How does anyone know that he is a better person than Dante Hall? That's just stupid. I guess Dexter has never been to a strip joint?

you obviously know very little about DMC as a person.

He has never even had a drink of alcohol and is about the same type of guy as Tebow.

...

I love it how Laz has pined for Golden Tate over DMC.

Dont you think that if Weis vouched for Tate, that would have been the choice instead? I think he knows more about him than anyone here after coaching him the last few years.

That alone should tell you what the NFL and even the coaches closest to the situation view the players.

Ralphy Boy
05-11-2010, 09:35 PM
which is another thing ... people talk about how much speed we added.

DMC and Arenas aren't that fast ... they are quick, not fast.


Berry is the only guy we added with what you would consider "real speed".

I get what you're saying but, outside of a go route, most WR's aren't running in a straight line. I've had to look long and hard to try to make myself happy with some of our picks so I'll try to help you do the same.
DMC's short shuttle was 4.06 compared to Tate's 4.34 and Berry's 4.23. Frankly DMC is off the charts quick.
DMC was just as fast over 20 yards as Tate and Berry. Cassel doesn't really throw the ball any further than that anyway.

Everyone, myself included, has slammed the Arenas pick, but if you look at his stats instead of his measurables, he really does compare pretty favorably to the rest of his class AS A CORNERBACK. I hated the pick. I've blasted it and did again yesterday but I spent some time today looking at his stats as a CB. Fact is he tweaked his hamstring on his 1 and only run and had a 4.52 unofficial time. (http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/9312/nfl-combine-report-berry-runs-a-4-4) I believe that Arenas is faster than he timed, maybe he's not.

Here's what I have decided, with some help from people on here. Yes he's a bit on the short side but because he was playing opposite of Kareem Jackson he got picked on and still performed very well. Also they blitzed him a ton and he got 5 sacks in 2009. That is HUGE for a CB and considering we have no pass rush, we could use a guy like that. He's a fearless defender and makes some pretty big hits. Somewhat similar to Bob Sanders in terms of his build.

He finished his college career with 1,752 yards on punt returns, which was 9 shy of the record that Wes Welker set though Welker did it on 14 less punt returns. Either way Welker has been a pretty good punt returner in the NFL.
Welker incidentally was also not very fast in his 40 time at his Texas Tech pro day, running a 4.65 40.

Ralphy Boy
05-11-2010, 09:46 PM
you obviously know very little about DMC as a person.

He has never even had a drink of alcohol and is about the same type of guy as Tebow.
...

I love it how Laz has pined for Golden Tate over DMC.

Dont you think that if Weis vouched for Tate, that would have been the choice instead? I think he knows more about him than anyone here after coaching him the last few years.

That alone should tell you what the NFL and even the coaches closest to the situation view the players.

Admittedly I don't. If that is true then its great and at least he won't pull a Warfield/Jared Allen.

I wouldn't knock Tate. I don't expect Seattle to be a strong passing team, but I still think Tate will have a very good career. A lot of people made the Steve Smith comparisons with him and while I don't think they aren't justified, he reminded me more of Percy Harvin as a receiver.

Mr. Laz
05-11-2010, 09:48 PM
I get what you're saying but, outside of a go route, most WR's aren't running in a straight line. I've had to look long and hard to try to make myself happy with some of our picks so I'll try to help you do the same.ya ... i feel ya, i've already done that myself.

it's not so much that i hate McCluster/Arenas ... they are both "football players" and have potential. It's just all the other players we passed on for these guys.

i gotta just stop thinking about it.

normally i have and then a stupid thread like this pops up and reminds me. :banghead:

if we had gotten McCluster and Arenas in the 3rd and 4th round after nabbing a couple of studs in round 2 i would be happy as hell. It's just ...

BossChief
05-11-2010, 09:54 PM
need a tissue laz?

Mr. Laz
05-11-2010, 09:58 PM
need a tissue laz?
go **** youself, little twat

i don't recall addressing your retard ass about anything




there ... you got the attention you kept nagging to get, happy?

boogblaster
05-11-2010, 10:02 PM
hopefully he can catch run block and play st ... damn we got a steal ...

BossChief
05-11-2010, 10:04 PM
so, yes? ROFL

Mr. "Im just trying to keep the planet civil" strikes again.

Laz, you are the king of butthurt, but I still like ya.

chiefzilla1501
05-11-2010, 10:09 PM
yea ... i've only seen that post like 20 times so far


looks familiar

<object height="385" width="480">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vemGEI9Iexw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="385" width="480"></object>

Oh I get it. Because he's short. So those two plays are identical. So if I watched a play of Jerome Bettis carrying the ball, it would probably the same as watching Corey Mays carry the ball. Because, you know, same size same player.

What were you watching? The first clip was in reference to your claim that McCluster was slow because he had a slow 40 time, even though he's outrunning Safeties (something even Priest, for as much as I loved the guy, never did). The second clip was a guy catching a basic out route and juking the guy out of his pants.

Loved Dante Hall as a player. But he was a returner who ran absolutely shitty routes as a receiver and was only good if he had the open space to make guys miss. You keep claiming he's Dante Hall and the comparison is absolutely fucking retarded. Dante was a pure return specialist who every once in a blue moon made a big play on offense. McCluster, unlike Dante, wasn't drafted primarily to be a returner.

The only similiarity between the two is that they're both short.

Ralphy Boy
05-11-2010, 10:15 PM
ya ... i feel ya, i've already done that myself.

it's not so much that i hate McCluster/Arenas ... they are both "football players" and have potential. It's just all the other players we passed on for these guys.

i gotta just stop thinking about it.

normally i have and then a stupid thread like this pops up and reminds me. :banghead:

if we had gotten McCluster and Arenas in the 3rd and 4th round after nabbing a couple of studs in round 2 i would be happy as hell. It's just ...

Look at it this way, if they end up sucking you can say that you were right. If they are good and we win because of them you'll be happy we won. Plus they can put Arenas over the slot receiver and creep Berry up to send Arenas on a blitz. Also if he gets a pick, with his punt averages he has the ability to take it to the house. Not that he did that very often but you get the point.

70 tackles, 46 solo, 5 sacks and 5 picks in 2009.

His 5 picks was 1 more than Nate Allen got. His 70 tackles were 7 more than Earl Thomas got and 13 more than Joe Haden.

Also, his 40 time was basically on par with Flowers.



After I made that Tate/Harvin reference I looked back at their college stats/combine results and the similarities are pretty strong. Both averaged 16.1 yards per catch their last season, both ran a 4.41/4.42 40, both 5'11 195 with a 10' broad jump.

Der Flöprer
05-11-2010, 11:41 PM
LMAO What a fucking joke.

http://i44.tinypic.com/35dat11.jpg

BigRock
05-11-2010, 11:55 PM
LMAO What a fucking joke.

http://i44.tinypic.com/35dat11.jpg

Dear lord. As if one Josh Scotten wasn't bad enough.

BossChief
05-12-2010, 12:00 AM
that shit is just too funny

what a dumbfugger

Looks like a certain paper might need an editor that knows the language.

OleMissCub
05-12-2010, 01:58 AM
whereas DMC ran a 4.53.

Oh for Christ's sake. When are people going to knock this shit off? EVERY PERSON that has ever seen the dude play knows he is faster than 4.58 or whatever he oddly ran at the combine. To actually think he runs anything slower than 4.4 is just ignorant at this point. Watch some film.

KurtCobain
05-12-2010, 03:57 AM
Athan would know size matters since he's lacking.

Pasta Giant Meatball
05-12-2010, 07:38 AM
which is another thing ... people talk about how much speed we added.

DMC and Arenas aren't that fast ... they are quick, not fast.


Berry is the only guy we added with what you would consider "real speed".

ROFL Give me a F'n break. The only reason you are saying this is because of that BS 40 time. The guy plays incredibly fast and that is really all that matters.

The Bad Guy
05-12-2010, 09:24 AM
still JUST a rumor...


and we still passed on potential 1st round talent starter for a role player.

Philly is in a far better situation to take a role player to replace Westbrook than we are

Yep. Should have taken the guy from Texas who had an injury or the 'full-time' nose tackle that will play about 20 snaps a game.

So it's OK for a team loaded with playmakers to take another one, but it's not for the team with very few?

That's some sound logic right there.

The Bad Guy
05-12-2010, 09:26 AM
I also think it's hilarious that GoChiefs, despite not "working" for Athan anymore continues to post his articles.

These "debates" are the worst ever.

milkman
05-12-2010, 11:11 AM
Yep. Should have taken the guy from Texas who had an injury or the 'full-time' nose tackle that will play about 20 snaps a game.

So it's OK for a team loaded with playmakers to take another one, but it's not for the team with very few?

That's some sound logic right there.

That 20 snaps a game is a bullshit number.

Cody or Thomas would be in on about 60% of defensive plays, which figures to around 36-42 snaps.

Tribal Warfare
05-12-2010, 11:31 AM
I hate the "heart" argument. It's like listening to a college basketball fan

Gregory Manusky had a lot of heart but he was still a career Special Teamer

Chiefs Rool
05-12-2010, 11:33 AM
I think he's gonna come into the NFL with the attitude that LT had when he first got in the league. "everybody has told me I'm too small my whole life and I'm gonna prove them wrong"

the kid is strong as hell too, so he's got muscle, he just don't look big but the kid is fast as hell in pads and that's what you want.

xztop12
05-12-2010, 11:58 AM
as weird as it seems i think the 40 yard distance is meaningless in the NFL

Hardly ever will you run 40 yards straight ahead without stopping(the exception might be a go route) in the rare event that you do get to run 40 yards straight ahead you've probably already ran 15-30 to get to that point, so endurance kicks in more than in a 40 yarder.

Reerun_KC
05-12-2010, 12:00 PM
That 20 snaps a game is a bullshit number.

Cody or Thomas would be in on about 60% of defensive plays, which figures to around 36-42 snaps.

Then why did they fall so far in the draft?