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Sure-Oz
06-02-2010, 06:43 PM
Mariners manager says Ken Griffey Jr. is retiring - AP 2 minutes ago via breakingnews.com twitter

DaKCMan AP
06-02-2010, 06:44 PM
These were the shit:
http://www.nikeblog.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/nike-air-griffey-max-1_2.jpg

Der Flöprer
06-02-2010, 06:45 PM
:(

Sure-Oz
06-02-2010, 06:46 PM
His SNES game Griffey jr presents MLB was the shit, the 2nd one not so much.

OnTheWarpath58
06-02-2010, 06:47 PM
Are you shitting me?

I have 18th row seats behind the plate to see the M's come to Busch in 2 weeks.

FML.

BigRedChief
06-02-2010, 06:47 PM
In the 90's he was the best player in baseball. and he did it clean. He hit 600+ home runs without using steriods. It's too bad injuries took away the last years of his career. First ballot HOF'r.

Sure-Oz
06-02-2010, 06:48 PM
In the 90's he was the best player in baseball. and he did it clean. He hit 600+ home runs without using steriods. It's too bad injuries took away the last years of his career. First ballot HOF'r.

Roids/Canseco

BigRedChief
06-02-2010, 06:50 PM
Are you shitting me?

I have 18th row seats behind the plate to see the M's come to Busch in 2 weeks.

FML.I'm thinking of catching a game on the 16th on my way to Florida. That your game?

Bane
06-02-2010, 06:50 PM
Probably likes sleeping at home vs the dugout.:shrug:

Sure-Oz
06-02-2010, 06:52 PM
Are you shitting me?

I have 18th row seats behind the plate to see the M's come to Busch in 2 weeks.

FML.

Indeed. I've been fortunate to see JR play in person in his prime a few times.

Mr. Laz
06-02-2010, 06:52 PM
he did it clean. :spock:


and then someone else would say that he did it roided and as soon as he stopped roiding he fell apart.

OnTheWarpath58
06-02-2010, 06:54 PM
I'm thinking of catching a game on the 16th on my way to Florida. That your game?

Fuck. Nope. 14th.

DeezNutz
06-02-2010, 06:56 PM
Indeed. I've been fortunate to see JR play in person in his prime a few times.

Me, too.

Watched him have the best 1-4 day I've ever seen at the K. Fucking hit ropes all over the field, but right at people. 0-3 going into the top of the 9th and M's were up big. With Jr. coming up in the top, however, there wasn't a chance in hell that I was leaving.

And I was rewarded. Bomb to CF.

OnTheWarpath58
06-02-2010, 06:57 PM
Indeed. I've been fortunate to see JR play in person in his prime a few times.

Hell, a good chunk of the games I've seen at the K is because the M's were in town.

I dated Kevin Appier's nanny for about two years, and although we could have tickets pretty much anytime we wanted them, KA always set a pair aside for the M's series.

Moving to the Reds has given me plenty of chances as well.

I was just looking forward to one last chance.

Bummer.

BossChief
06-02-2010, 06:58 PM
Damn, my favorite baseball player OAT.

Count Alex's Losses
06-02-2010, 06:59 PM
:(

He hasn't hit a homer in 33 games this year. It's time.

Priest31kc
06-02-2010, 06:59 PM
Wow. This is hitting me pretty hard, he's my favorite athlete of all time by far. Love the guy, never got to see him play live though, which sucks. But damn, I didn't think he'd retire in the middle of the season. :(

milkman
06-02-2010, 07:01 PM
In the 90's he was the best player in baseball. and he did it clean. He hit 600+ home runs without using steriods. It's too bad injuries took away the last years of his career. First ballot HOF'r.

Jr. was the second best player I ever saw.

Only the Say Hey Kid could do more at the plate and on the field.

Priest31kc
06-02-2010, 07:08 PM
Jr. was the second best player I ever saw.

Only the Say Hey Kid could do more at the plate and on the field.

630 HRs, 5th all time. CLEAN. While missing, what like 3 full seasons almost when he joined the Reds. Amazing.

Being a die hard Griffey fan, it would have been incredible to see him break Aaron's record. And chasing it along w/ Bonds, would have been awesome because everyone would have been rooting for Griff since it was obvious Bonds was on roids. Man that would have been great.

tk13
06-02-2010, 07:34 PM
He definitely would've been in the ballpark to challenge Aaron had he stayed healthy.

Joe Mariner
06-02-2010, 07:37 PM
I've been fortunate enough to see him countless times, definitely my favorite all time player.. As others have said, sure would have been cool to see mim break the HR record..

Demonpenz
06-02-2010, 07:45 PM
he pulled his hammy on the way to the poduim

Art Vader
06-02-2010, 07:47 PM
I can't believe his swing was not butter.

MadMax
06-02-2010, 08:45 PM
Mariners manager says Ken Griffey Jr. is retiring - AP 2 minutes ago via breakingnews.com twitter




Good luck Mister Griffey, one helluva ball player and one helluva career! :thumb:

BWillie
06-02-2010, 08:47 PM
To bad he dove headfirst into so many walls

OnTheWarpath58
06-02-2010, 08:57 PM
Yeah, it sure would have been nice if he could have stayed healthy.

A clean player breaking Hank's record would have been huge for the state of the game, IMO.

No one outside of SF, or people that have the "everyone does it" attitude even gave a shit when Bonds broke the record.

It's still Hank's, AFAIC.

And the single season is still Roger's.

Fuck Bonds. Fuck Mac. Fuck Sosa. Fuck Palmeiro. Fuck A-Rod.

Griff is the last super-talented clean player of my generation.

Der Flöprer
06-02-2010, 09:02 PM
Such a shitty day for me. Not as bad as when he went to the Reds, but it was pretty fucking close. My hero is gone from the diamond forever.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs508.ash1/30005_1350611279991_1072633568_784243_7378231_n.jpg

Der Flöprer
06-02-2010, 09:03 PM
Awesome montage at Safeco before the game tonight. It's going on right now for anyone who can see the game. Fox Sports Northwest.

OnTheWarpath58
06-02-2010, 09:04 PM
Such a shitty day for me. Not as bad as when he went to the Reds, but it was pretty fucking close. My hero is gone from the diamond forever.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs508.ash1/30005_1350611279991_1072633568_784243_7378231_n.jpg

Sorry, dude. I feel your pain.

He was my favorite non-Cardinal position player of all-time.

FTR, Nolan Ryan was my favorite non-Cardinal pitcher.

OnTheWarpath58
06-02-2010, 09:05 PM
Awesome montage at Safeco before the game tonight. It's going on right now for anyone who can see the game. Fox Sports Northwest.

Hopefully it makes YouTube.

If you see it, PM it to me, or post it here. Or both.

Der Flöprer
06-02-2010, 09:06 PM
Fuck yeah! Homer in the Kingdome finale, and he robbed a home run that game. The Griff giveth, and the Griff taketh away.

Der Flöprer
06-02-2010, 09:07 PM
Hopefully it makes YouTube.

If you see it, PM it to me, or post it here. Or both.

I'll do that.

Sam Hall
06-02-2010, 09:07 PM
I think he was the most talented player in baseball history. He lost at least 200 home runs because of injuries. He hadn't been healthy for the past 10 years.

DJ's left nut
06-02-2010, 09:08 PM
Hey Ken - next time you retire, don't announce it on the day of the 2nd most infamous blown call in baseball history.

Maybe someone will notice you left by Saturday.

Der Flöprer
06-02-2010, 09:08 PM
I think he was the most talented player in baseball history. He lost at least 200 home runs because of injuries. He hadn't been healthy for the past 10 years.

If he'd juiced, he would've smashed Barry Bonds record. 800 homers, maybe 9.

Sam Hall
06-02-2010, 09:15 PM
If he'd juiced, he would've smashed Barry Bonds record. 800 homers, maybe 9.

He wouldn't have needed the juice.

DeezNutz
06-02-2010, 09:15 PM
Dude really was The Natural.

Der Flöprer
06-02-2010, 09:17 PM
He wouldn't have needed the juice.

I'm talking strictly from a recovery standpoint.

KCrockaholic
06-02-2010, 09:17 PM
I will miss you Griffey! My favorite baseball player ever!

milkman
06-02-2010, 09:20 PM
I think he was the most talented player in baseball history. He lost at least 200 home runs because of injuries. He hadn't been healthy for the past 10 years.

Once again, some kid who has barely learned to wipe his ass makes some assinine proclamation about a player that he is probably barely old enough to have watched in his prime being the best ever.

You dumbasses need to shut the fuck up.

Willie Mays was the most talented player I ever saw, but I'm not going make some stupid claim that he's the most talented ever because I didn't see the great players that came before him.

Let me say it again.

Shut the fuck up.

Sam Hall
06-02-2010, 09:22 PM
Once again, some kid who has barely learned to wipe his ass makes some assinine proclamation about a player that he is probably barely old enough to have watched in his prime being the best ever.

You dumbasses need to shut the **** up.

Willie Mays was the most talented player I ever saw, but I'm not going make some stupid claim that he's the most talented ever because I didn't see the great players that came before him.

Let me say it again.

Shut the **** up.

Excuse me?

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-02-2010, 09:22 PM
Best pure baseball player of my life.

Param
06-02-2010, 09:28 PM
Should have never left Seattle...

Sam Hall
06-02-2010, 09:29 PM
I would agree that Willie Mays and Ken Griffey Jr. had all the tools. You could give Mays the two seasons he lost. Griffey was still better.

milkman
06-02-2010, 09:37 PM
I would agree that Willie Mays and Ken Griffey Jr. had all the tools. You could give Mays the two seasons he lost. Griffey was still better.

And I'm telling you that you, dumbass, are too fucking young to make a such a ridiculous assessment.

So shut the fuck up, dumbass.

I'm sick and tired you fucking babies making these stupid fucking claims.

Sam Hall
06-02-2010, 09:41 PM
And I'm telling you that you, dumbass, are too ****ing young to make a such a ridiculous assessment.

So shut the **** up, dumbass.

I'm sick and tired you ****ing babies making these stupid ****ing claims.

While I'm 26, I think I know my baseball history. You should just chill out.

milkman
06-02-2010, 09:46 PM
While I'm 26, I think I know my baseball history. You should just chill out.

I'll chill out when you shut the fuck up.

You know your baseball history.

Woo fucking hoo.

You never saw Willie Mays play.

Sam Hall
06-02-2010, 09:48 PM
I'll chill out when you shut the **** up.

You know your baseball history.

Woo ****ing hoo.

You never saw Willie Mays play.

You're only old enough to have seen the end of Mays' career.

dirk digler
06-02-2010, 09:48 PM
I never got to see Griffey play live but I was always a fan of his. He did it clean and the right way.

And yes he was the greatest player to ever play baseball and milkman is the greatest poster in message board history.

OnTheWarpath58
06-02-2010, 09:50 PM
Best pure baseball player of my life.

And had Sam made this statement, there'd be no reason for MM to get agitated.

Can't argue with Milk here.

It's kinda like the Unitas-Montana dispute.

Easy to say Montana when you never saw Johnny U play.

Sam Hall
06-02-2010, 09:56 PM
It's probably a generational debate. Mays and Griffey seemed to have similar skill sets. Lots has been written about Mays and there's some video. I think we all have an idea of how great he was.

milkman
06-02-2010, 09:58 PM
You're only old enough to have seen the end of Mays' career.

Did your dumb ass miss the part where I said hewas teh most talented player I ever saw, but I won't say he's the greatest ever because I didn't see the great players that came before him?

I grew up watching Mays.

I've seen Griffey.

Willie Mays was the single most talented player I ever saw.

So, once again, I tell you to shut the fuck up.

Pablo
06-02-2010, 10:00 PM
Milkman: The champion for athletes from before 1990.

LMAO

Sam Hall
06-02-2010, 10:05 PM
Did your dumb ass miss the part where I said hewas teh most talented player I ever saw, but I won't say he's the greatest ever because I didn't see the great players that came before him?

I grew up watching Mays.

I've seen Griffey.

Willie Mays was the single most talented player I ever saw.

So, once again, I tell you to shut the **** up.

You were 11 or 12 years old in 1970. Mays was past his prime by that time and he retired in 1973. You couldn't have seen much of him.

teedubya
06-02-2010, 10:08 PM
I've always said when Ken Griffey Jr. retired that I would officially feel old.

:(

milkman
06-02-2010, 10:13 PM
You were 11 or 12 years old in 1970. Mays was past his prime by that time and he retired in 1973. You couldn't have seen much of him.

Your point, dumbass?

I was young, yes, but I did see him play.

You, on the other hand are making a claim that you have no point of reference to make.

Your dumb ass wasn't even an swimmer yet.

ohiobronco2
06-02-2010, 10:19 PM
Griffey. Easily the greatest of all time. :)

Pablo
06-02-2010, 10:20 PM
Griffey. Easily the greatest of all time. :)No doubt. Better than Mays+Ruth+Wagner combined.

Easily.

SnakeXJones
06-02-2010, 10:23 PM
He had a fantastic career too bad injuries slowed him down tons he would've done alot of damage to so many records

teedubya
06-02-2010, 10:24 PM
Griffey was even better than the Famous San Diego Chicken

Param
06-02-2010, 10:24 PM
Barry Bonds is the best I've ever seen...

teedubya
06-02-2010, 10:25 PM
600 jacks is nothing to sneeze at... but seeing this guy turn from spry, young buck... with hat on backwards... to old fogie.... well, that is just depressing.

Sam Hall
06-02-2010, 10:25 PM
Your point, dumbass?

I was young, yes, but I did see him play.

You, on the other hand are making a claim that you have no point of reference to make.

Your dumb ass wasn't even an swimmer yet.

Take a look at their stats. Mays played in 300 more games and has better stats in certain areas. They are also close in several areas. I'm sticking with Griffey. I also don't think you saw enough of Mays to rip me like you have.

ohiobronco2
06-02-2010, 10:30 PM
No doubt. Better than Mays+Ruth+Wagner combined.

Easily.

:LOL::LOL: I'm joking, though I do think that he is the greatest of my generation. Ricky Henderson is also up there.

Demonpenz
06-02-2010, 10:32 PM
I saw griffey a ton at the K, but you you know who tore us up? Edgar Martinez

OnTheWarpath58
06-02-2010, 10:33 PM
Take a look at their stats. Mays played in 300 more games and has better stats in certain areas. They are also close in several areas. I'm sticking with Griffey. I also don't think you saw enough of Mays to rip me like you have.

He didn't see enough of Mays, yet you saw NONE of Mays.

Interesting.

Demonpenz
06-02-2010, 10:34 PM
I have talked to people who said mays would have had 400 more hits if he was left handed (closer to first)

milkman
06-02-2010, 10:35 PM
Take a look at their stats. Mays played in 300 more games and has better stats in certain areas. They are also close in several areas. I'm sticking with Griffey. I also don't think you saw enough of Mays to rip me like you have.

I'm ripping your dumb ass because you are too fucking young to make the claim that you made, and has nothing to do specifically whether I'm right or wrong about Mays.

And I've said it a thousand times if I've said it once.

I don't give a rat's ass about stats.
They don't tell the whole story.

I base my opinions on what I see.

Demonpenz
06-02-2010, 10:35 PM
I also saw a stat on espn.com that If mays played in kingdome alone he would have had 253.3 more home runs and 33 more stolen bases

Demonpenz
06-02-2010, 10:36 PM
Mays also played in an Era of whole milk so that slowed him down, where griffey could easily get skim milk to put on his Count chocula

Demonpenz
06-02-2010, 10:37 PM
baseballisbadass.com said that Willie Mays if he played in todays game, would have gotten 3 strawberry cows in farmville

Sam Hall
06-02-2010, 10:38 PM
I'm ripping your dumb ass because you are too ****ing young to make the claim that you made, and has nothing to do specifically whether I'm right or wrong about Mays.

And I've said it a thousand times if I've said it once.

I don't give a rat's ass about stats.
They don't tell the whole story.

I base my opinions on what I see.

You can't possibly remember much about Mays in his prime. I'm taking Griffey, but not by a lot. It's clear that they had similar skill sets.

Demonpenz
06-02-2010, 10:39 PM
Willie Mays would have had as many homeruns in a year in todays game... Than the Amount Rick Ross says "Everyday is hustlin"

Priest31kc
06-02-2010, 10:42 PM
Willie Mays would have had as many homeruns in a year in todays game... Than the Amount Rick Ross says "Everyday is hustlin"

Rick Ross fucking sucks

milkman
06-02-2010, 10:42 PM
You can't possibly remember much about Mays in his prime. I'm taking Griffey, but not by a lot. It's clear that they had similar skill sets.

It doesn't fucking matter whether you believe that I can remember much about Mays in his prime.

My primary point is that you are too fucking young to make a bold fucking stupid claim.

That's what pisses me off.

Just stop making the stupid fucking claim that you have no fucking reference to fucking make you dipshit.

And to understand why I might have a better memory for the sports of my youth than you think I should have, you would have to know what drew me to sports, and how they impacted my life, and I'm not sharing that personal information with you.

Sam Hall
06-02-2010, 10:46 PM
It doesn't ****ing matter whether you believe that I can remember much about Mays in his prime.

My primary point is that you are too ****ing young to make a bold ****ing stupid claim.

That's what pisses me off.

Just stop making the stupid ****ing claim that you have no ****ing reference to ****ing make you dipshit.

And to understand why I might have a better memory for the sports of my youth than you think I should have, you would have to know what drew me to sports, and how they impacted my life, and I'm not sharing that personal information with you.

I would argue that you're too young to make your claims. Mays' production began declining in 1967. I may not have been a swimmer, but you were several years away from puberty:thumb:

milkman
06-02-2010, 10:49 PM
I would argue that you're too young to make your claims. Mays' production began declining in 1967. I may not have been a swimmer, but you were several years away from puberty:thumb:

I was too young to claim that you can't fucking know what the hell you are talking about?

Sports were very important to me at a very young age, and that's all I'm going to say about that.

milkman
06-02-2010, 10:50 PM
I would argue that you're too young to make your claims. Mays' production began declining in 1967. I may not have been a swimmer, but you were several years away from puberty:thumb:

It doesn't even matter one fucking bit whether I'm right about Mays.

It still comes down to the fact that you never saw him play, so you have nothing to base your claim on except that you read stats.

Sam Hall
06-02-2010, 10:54 PM
It doesn't even matter one ****ing bit whether I'm right about Mays.

It still comes down to the fact that you never saw him play, so you have nothing to base your claim on except that you read stats.

You remember a little more about Mays than the rest of us. It's clear that Griffey and Mays had everything people look for in a hitter and center fielder. Your argument is based more on rage and insults than anything else.

OnTheWarpath58
06-02-2010, 10:55 PM
If Milkman saw Willie Mays play ONE FUCKING GAME, then he has all the credibility needed in this discussion, because "someone" NEVER saw him play.

Sam being Sam.

The whole thing is a non-issue if you use your fucking head and say that Griff was the best player of your generation, or the best you had ever seen play.

But to say that Griff was the best of all time when you're what, 25? (you act younger) and haven't seen the vast majority of the greats of the game is fucking stupid, and to continue to argue shows what a jackass you really are.

milkman
06-02-2010, 10:56 PM
You remember a little more about Mays than the rest of us. It's clear that Griffey and Mays had everything people look for in a hitter and center fielder. Your argument is based more on rage and insults than anything else.

My argument is based on one single fact.

You never saw Willie Mays play.

It's that simple.

OnTheWarpath58
06-02-2010, 10:56 PM
It doesn't even matter one fucking bit whether I'm right about Mays.

It still comes down to the fact that you never saw him play, so you have nothing to base your claim on except that you read stats.

Exactly.

Sam Hall
06-02-2010, 11:00 PM
My argument is based on one single fact.

You never saw Willie Mays play.

It's that simple.

They couldn't have been a whole lot different. Both of them had it all.

BigRedChief
06-02-2010, 11:08 PM
First baseball game I ever saw was Mays at Candlestick. Still have the ticket from the game. I've seen Griffey jr more times than I can count. I have a game used signed Griffey jr. jersey, baseball bat and ball. Obviously, I'm a big Griffey fan but better than Mays?

If he keeps up the consistency that he has shown his first 9 years in the league, Pujols will potentially be better than both of them. He doesn't have the speed but he makes up for it in other areas.

JohnnyV13
06-03-2010, 02:02 AM
I say that babe ruth was the greatest of all time, even though I never saw him play. I think you can see it from statistics.

Its not from some super duper sabermetric analysis that I have come to this conclusion. The reason I say Babe Ruth was the greatest of all time is because he changed the game in ways that are still felt today.

Babe Ruth set the single season home run record 3 or 4 times (by breaking his own previous record). If I recall correctly, Ruth needed a mere 29 homers to set the record the first time.

By 1927, the record was up to 60, and hitters across both leagues changed how they approached the game because of Babe Ruth. Suddenly, other players started bombing home runs, even ones with well established track records of much lower home run production. Hack Wilson hit 56 in the National League, and home runs started flying out of parks everywhere.

Babe Ruth is the greatest of all time not because of some dusty statistics, (even though his effect is obvious FROM statistics) UZR or his .OPS. Babe Ruth is the greatest because he caused generations of hitters to approach the game differently.

JohnnyV13
06-03-2010, 02:28 AM
To put Babe Ruth in perspective, the career home run record before Babe Ruth was 138.

Ruth broke that number at age 26 after putting up seasons of 29, 54 and 59. Think about it, Babe Ruth put up more HRs in THREE YEARS than the previous career record.

Ruth showed all of baseball that swinging for the fences was a viable, and winning, strategy for some players. Teams started to look for "the slugger", and viewed having one as a necessary component of a championship squad.

Before Ruth, Sam Baker earned the knickname of "home run Baker" with a career total of 96 and no more than 12 in a single season.

The difference was more mental than physical, since after Ruth, suddenly other players started banging home runs as well.

Sam Hall
06-03-2010, 10:25 AM
I'd agree about Ruth.

I'd also say that Mays had more speed than Griffey and struck out less often. This could have been avoided had MM been more civil about it.

Short Leash Hootie
06-03-2010, 10:41 AM
Griffey Jr. and The Big Hurt were my two favorite players growing up...have many fond memories of both.

milkman
06-03-2010, 09:26 PM
I say that babe ruth was the greatest of all time, even though I never saw him play. I think you can see it from statistics.

Its not from some super duper sabermetric analysis that I have come to this conclusion. The reason I say Babe Ruth was the greatest of all time is because he changed the game in ways that are still felt today.

Babe Ruth set the single season home run record 3 or 4 times (by breaking his own previous record). If I recall correctly, Ruth needed a mere 29 homers to set the record the first time.

By 1927, the record was up to 60, and hitters across both leagues changed how they approached the game because of Babe Ruth. Suddenly, other players started bombing home runs, even ones with well established track records of much lower home run production. Hack Wilson hit 56 in the National League, and home runs started flying out of parks everywhere.

Babe Ruth is the greatest of all time not because of some dusty statistics, (even though his effect is obvious FROM statistics) UZR or his .OPS. Babe Ruth is the greatest because he caused generations of hitters to approach the game differently.

I didn't see Ruth, so I can't say he was the best I ever saw.
Mays was.

But I wouldn't argue with this.
It certainly has merit, and is quite probably true.

milkman
06-03-2010, 09:29 PM
I'd agree about Ruth.

I'd also say that Mays had more speed than Griffey and struck out less often. This could have been avoided had MM been more civil about it.

If you hadn't been a dumbass that isn't old enough to have more than a 15-20 year perspective, who came here and proclaimed that Griffey was the most talented ever, then I wouldn't have been uncivil.

Stupidity will aways be met with non-civility when I see it.

And a 25-26 year old making that proclamation is stupidity defined.

SDChiefs
06-04-2010, 02:21 PM
First professional game I ever went to was a Mariners/Yankees game at the Kingdome. Hes been my favorite athlete ever since. IMO he is the greatest player of my generation that would have solidified the fact had he not had so many injuries. Sweetest swing I have ever seen and such a humble, class act. He will be missed from the sport.

Sam Hall
06-04-2010, 02:49 PM
If you hadn't been a dumbass that isn't old enough to have more than a 15-20 year perspective, who came here and proclaimed that Griffey was the most talented ever, then I wouldn't have been uncivil.

Stupidity will aways be met with non-civility when I see it.

And a 25-26 year old making that proclamation is stupidity defined.

Why don't you tell us the differences between Mays and Griffey, besides what I've said. How old do I have to be before I know something about baseball history? You blew my comments out of proportion, and you were a prick about it.

milkman
06-04-2010, 09:29 PM
Why don't you tell us the differences between Mays and Griffey, besides what I've said. How old do I have to be before I know something about baseball history? You blew my comments out of proportion, and you were a prick about it.

Uhhh......I am a prick.

That much has been well established around here.

Mays played in an era when pitchers owned the plate.
You couldn't crowd it unless you wanted a pitch coming at you, and umpires wouldn't toss the pitcher.

He also played much of his career in a park where the air was heavy, where Griffey played in a hitter friendly park in his prime, healthy years.

In the outfield, he used the wall, rather than ran into it.

Those are just a couple of things.

Chiefs Rool
06-04-2010, 09:40 PM
He's a surefire hall of famer. One of the few who did it without steroids. He is one of my all time favorite players, if he didn't get hurt so much slamming into the back walls and diving for catches he would have posted even greater numbers.

Der Flöprer
07-12-2010, 08:09 PM
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boogblaster
07-12-2010, 09:53 PM
great ball player .. so was his daddy ...

Halfcan
07-12-2010, 10:04 PM
In the 90's he was the best player in baseball. and he did it clean. He hit 600+ home runs without using steriods. It's too bad injuries took away the last years of his career. First ballot HOF'r.

Actually injuries took some of his prime years. I got to meet Griffey-what a class act. The scars on his wrist from hitting the wall were just plain nasty-hard to believe he could ever come back from that. He was a very nice guy and a terrific player.

ChiefMojo
07-12-2010, 10:11 PM
Arguably the best player in the modern era. I'm sure as many have mentioned his numbers could have been even better if it weren't for injures. More times than not he got injured busting his butt. Junior did it all clean as well! Probably my favorite baseball player that wasn't a Royal for sure. Probably had the sweetest swing ever! Very very sad moment in my sports life history seeing him retire... makes one feel old.

Halfcan
07-12-2010, 10:11 PM
I say that babe ruth was the greatest of all time, even though I never saw him play. I think you can see it from statistics.

Its not from some super duper sabermetric analysis that I have come to this conclusion. The reason I say Babe Ruth was the greatest of all time is because he changed the game in ways that are still felt today.

Babe Ruth set the single season home run record 3 or 4 times (by breaking his own previous record). If I recall correctly, Ruth needed a mere 29 homers to set the record the first time.

By 1927, the record was up to 60, and hitters across both leagues changed how they approached the game because of Babe Ruth. Suddenly, other players started bombing home runs, even ones with well established track records of much lower home run production. Hack Wilson hit 56 in the National League, and home runs started flying out of parks everywhere.

Babe Ruth is the greatest of all time not because of some dusty statistics, (even though his effect is obvious FROM statistics) UZR or his .OPS. Babe Ruth is the greatest because he caused generations of hitters to approach the game differently.

Actually they started to use a much tighter wound ball-early baseball players basically had a bean bag to hit-lol The balls today would go about 600 feet with one of Babes swings.

But yes he was the best all around player ever-Period. He was a HOF talent pitcher before he ever stated hitting.

Ty Cobb was the Best hitter of all time-Period-and the first person i believe-to be inducted into the HOF.

Halfcan
07-12-2010, 10:15 PM
Arguably the best player in the modern era. I'm sure as many have mentioned his numbers could have been even better if it weren't for injures. More times than not he got injured busting his butt. Junior did it all clean as well! Probably my favorite baseball player that wasn't a Royal for sure. Probably had the sweetest swing ever! Very very sad moment in my sports life history seeing him retire... makes one feel old.

Yep he probably left at least two prime years on the table because of injuries-so maybe could have cracked the 700 mark. But lots of great players did-

Hell George Brett left a shitload of hits and doubles on the table because he missed so many games. Of couse back than (roids) meant something different than it did today-lol

Deberg_1990
07-12-2010, 10:26 PM
Yep he probably left at least two prime years on the table because of injuries-so maybe could have cracked the 700 mark. But lots of great players did-

Hell George Brett left a shitload of hits and doubles on the table because he missed so many games. Of couse back than (roids) meant something different than it did today-lol

Yea, because Griffey did it clean, he had a career numbers not being inflated like, Bonds McGwire and Sosa.

If Bonds, McGwire and Sosa were clean, their bodies would have broken down more and they never would have reached the numbers they did.

Priest31kc
07-12-2010, 10:33 PM
Yep he probably left at least two prime years on the table because of injuries-so maybe could have cracked the 700 mark. But lots of great players did-

Hell George Brett left a shitload of hits and doubles on the table because he missed so many games. Of couse back than (roids) meant something different than it did today-lol

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=5247355

If Ken Griffey Jr. had stayed healthy …

There is no tougher question to answer in life than this:

What if?

So why do we find ourselves asking it today -- asking it about one of the greatest players we've ever laid eyes on, George Kenneth Griffey Jr.?

We should be looking back at this man and celebrating what was, right? Because what was, by any measure, was beautiful and magical and historic.

Those 630 home runs -- that's what was. Only four other players in history hit more than that, and let's just say you wouldn't have any trouble recognizing those four players if they sat down next to you at lunch.

Those 10 Gold Gloves -- that's what was, too. The only outfielders who ever lived who won more were Willie Mays and Roberto Clemente. And we'd pay just to watch those three guys shag fly balls in batting practice, wouldn't we?

That 600-homer, 10-Gold Glove package -- that's what was. Only Mays and Griffey belong to that esteemed club.

Those 13 All-Star Games Ken Griffey Jr. was elected to start -- put that in the old "what was" column, too. How many outfielders in history ever won that many All-Star elections? Not a one. Amazing.

So that tells us what Ken Griffey Jr. was, all right: beloved, charismatic, mesmerizing, special. We'll never forget him for that.

But what makes this man's legacy so unique and complicated is that other question:

What if?

What if all That Stuff hadn't kept happening to him? The fractured wrist. The torn labrum. The dislocated patella. The torn hamstring. The hand he broke at home one winter.

What if he'd stayed as healthy as, say, Alex Rodriguez? Or Hank Aaron? Or Willie Mays?

What if he'd been ripping off 150-game seasons every year instead of all those 111-game seasons and 53-game seasons and 70-game seasons?

What kind of legacy would we be talking about then?

We'll never know, of course. We can't know. It's impossible to know.

We learned this week that it's possible to go back in time and sell tickets to a game that has already been played (i.e., Roy Halladay's perfect game). But we also learned it wasn't possible to give out free rides in the handy-dandy time machine with every ticket. And it still isn't.

So let's accept that reality before we go forward here, OK? We'll never know. We can't know. It's impossible to know what Ken Griffey Jr.'s final numbers might have looked like.

But just for fun, we can do a little math. Why not?

We'll keep this as simple as possible. We're just going to look at home runs and home runs alone. No point in calculating projected OPS or theoretical VORP here. We think we're safe in assuming you wouldn't care even if we could.

But how many home runs would Ken Griffey Jr. have hit if he had only stayed reasonably healthy? Now THAT'S a fun exercise. And a meaningful one. So on with the calculation show.

First, we broke his career down into three segments:

The first five years (1989-93)

• Games played: 734
• Times on disabled list: 2
• Games missed: 66

The Seattle years, Part 2 (1994-99)

• Games played: 801
• Times on the disabled list: 2
• Strike-shortened seasons: 2
• Games missed due to injury: 95
• Games missed due to strike: 68

The 21st century (2000-10)

• Games played: 1,136
• Times on the disabled list: 8
• Games missed: 392

So how did we calculate games missed? We looked at every season, and any time Griffey missed a game here or a game there, we chalked it up to a regular old day of rest. But any time he missed two games in a row or more, we threw those into the "games missed" column.

The only exception was this year, when he was clearly sitting for other reasons. We ignored those games completely.

So now that we have that part figured out, we can move along to the fun part -- translating "games missed" into "home runs lost."

Here's how we did that:

In those first five years, from 1989-93, Griffey averaged a home run in 4.2 percent of his plate appearances.

In the next six years, from 1994-99 -- the biggest power seasons of his career -- he averaged a home run in 7.4 percent of his plate appearances.

In what we'd call his Cincinnati period, from 2000-08 (which includes his two months with the White Sox), he averaged a home run in 5.3 percent of his plate appearances.

And in 2009, his Seattle homecoming, he averaged a home run in 4.2 percent of his plate appearances.

So that leaves us with just one job, figuring out What Might Have Been if this guy had been playing, not hanging out with the trainer. Ready? Here it comes:

1989-93: Plate appearances lost: 280; home runs lost: 12

1994-99: Plate appearances lost: 682; home runs lost: 50

2000-08: Plate appearances lost: 1,570; home runs lost: 83

2009: Plate appearances lost: 39; home runs lost: 2

2010: A season of irrelevance

So get your calculators out now. If we've calculated this correctly, a fully healthy Ken Griffey Jr. would have hit another 147 home runs in his career. Add those 147 homers to 630 and what do you get? You get 777 -- or 15 more than Barry Bonds.

Now, just about nobody stays healthy for 22 straight seasons, obviously. So our friend, home run historian David Vincent (aka the Sultan of Swat Stats), thinks Griffey's realistic total of home runs lost would fall somewhere between 100 and 125.

But even if we use his total, we'd be talking about a man with 730 and 755 career home runs. And we're willing to bet that if Griffey were just a handful of homers away from breaking Bonds' all-time record, he'd still be in uniform -- somebody's uniform.

You can argue that theory if you'd like. But first, you'd better factor in how hard America would be rooting for One of the Clean Players to expunge Bonds from the record book.

That, however, is a discussion for another time. The discussion for this time, though, is astonishing when you think about it.

Here we have one of four players in history to hit 600 homers, one of three outfielders in history to win three Gold Gloves, the only outfielder in history to be elected to start 13 All-Star Games -- and we're still wondering WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN?

Digest that thought for a moment.

A couple of years ago, we had a chance to ask Griffey himself if he ever thinks about that question -- What Might Have Been?

"Never," he said.

"Why not?" we asked.

"Because it doesn't matter," he replied.

And he's right, naturally. But the fact that we're asking anyway still tells us something about what this man represented in our time.

He was still one of the two or three greatest players any of us ever saw play, from beginning to end. But …

He easily could have been in the argument for Greatest Player Ever. Easily.

All if we'd never had to ask one the most difficult questions in life:

What if?

So today, we're just sorry we have to ask it all about the great George Kenneth Griffey Jr.

KCrockaholic
07-13-2010, 12:28 AM
Oh quit teasing us.

Griffey was amazing....One of the best ever. Lets leave it at that.