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View Full Version : Nat'l Security Mexico Opens California Office to Handout ID's for Illegals


petegz28
06-03-2010, 05:58 PM
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Mexico-opens-California-office-to-provide-ID-for-illegals-95434969.html

petegz28
06-03-2010, 05:59 PM
Gotta love this part...


Mexican government officials have moved their satellite consular office from the Catalina Island Country Club to a Catholic Church – citing protection under the Geneva Convention.

HonestChieffan
06-03-2010, 06:01 PM
Perfect place ICE to open a small office. But its like shooting birds on a baited field.

BucEyedPea
06-03-2010, 06:02 PM
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Mexico-opens-California-office-to-provide-ID-for-illegals-95434969.html

And they're using Roman Catholic Churches as sanctuaries per an update in the last line in that link.

If the Catholic Church insists on preventing immigration law from being enforced, then they should step up and pay the bill. Let the Catholic Church open up its schools for free and use their vast resources to pay for the benefits of illegals if they feel it’s such a moral issue,” Rep. Rohrabacher told The Examiner. “I don’t exactly see Cardinal Mahoney announcing the sale of catholic church property to pay the bills for illegal immigration. This holier than thou hypocrisy has got to stop.”

kcfanXIII
06-03-2010, 06:11 PM
i hope arizona cuts power to cali like the one guy threatened to do. anybody involved with providing these ids, should be arrested for aiding a fugitive of the law.

BucEyedPea
06-03-2010, 06:18 PM
i hope arizona cuts power to cali like the one guy threatened to do. anybody involved with providing these ids, should be arrested for aiding a fugitive of the law.

Ya' know I'd like that too but it was pointed out by a Californian that they can't just do that.

Chiefs Rool
06-03-2010, 10:43 PM
I understand why the mexicans want to come here. But this shit has got to stop. We ain't too far from martial law if this shit keeps happening.

Bill Parcells
06-04-2010, 12:09 AM
http://lighthousepatriotjournal.files.wordpress.com/2006/06/mexifornia-license.jpg

AustinChief
06-04-2010, 04:43 AM
OK, I don't normally chime in on the immigration argument since it is far too complex to properly adress on a BBS... BUT.. for all of those that are anti-immigration or whatever... I understand the idea behind keeping track of our borders and such... BUT DO YOU REALLY WANT TO BE LIKE THEM.. by "them" I mean damn near every other pissant country in the world that is full of xenophobic a$$holes. Do we want to France or Germany or Korea or China... we are better than that.

Just something I'd like people to mull over... our lax immigration policies are something that sets us apart from those worthless *****. Yes the system is broken, but we should be able to fix it without turning in to THEM. Yet, every solution I hear is a resounding echo of THEIR policies... guys, we are smarter and better than this.

ok, I'll be back tomorrow to take shite over this post...

Warrior5
06-04-2010, 04:57 AM
BUT DO YOU REALLY WANT TO BE LIKE THEM.. by "them" I mean damn near every other pissant country in the world that is full of xenophobic a$$holes. Do we want to France or Germany or Korea or China... we are better than that.

You forgot to mention Mexico.:D

I wouldn't lump France and Germany with Korea and China. In fact, I wouldn't call France and Germany xenophobic at all.

AustinChief
06-04-2010, 05:14 AM
You forgot to mention Mexico.:D

I wouldn't lump France and Germany with Korea and China. In fact, I wouldn't call France and Germany xenophobic at all.
Seriously? They are EXTREMELY xenophobic... as is almost all of Europe... I had someone in Spain tell me how racist America is.. at which point I asked about Morocans... (they call all Arabs, Moroccans) and they actually told me ... "that's different.. it's not racist.. they aren't really people..." oh.. well that's ok then!

France and Germany are xenophobic.. just like Spain and the rest... tthey are just "selectively" xenophobic... if that makes sense...

AustinChief
06-04-2010, 05:18 AM
You forgot to mention Mexico.:D

I wouldn't lump France and Germany with Korea and China. In fact, I wouldn't call France and Germany xenophobic at all.

AND yes Mexico is awful in that regard... BUT I'd rather accept every willing Mexican into the USA if it means we AREN'T like their corrupt piece of crap government. If that's what it takes to NOT BE MEXICO.. come on over.. I'll smuggle you in myself!

This whole issue has gotten turned around where people aren't looking at it in the right way....

mikey23545
06-04-2010, 05:26 AM
So how many fucking illegals do you have working for you anyway?

AustinChief
06-04-2010, 05:39 AM
So how many fucking illegals do you have working for you anyway?ME? none. BUT I have no problem with illegals when our system to make them legal is so completely screwed up that it's damn near impossible... WE (our govt./business infrastructure) have put this system in place and have no intention of changing it.. it HURTS the average American and it KILLS the average "illegal" making them willing slave labor...

Our federal (and most State) govmt. are to blame for tacit collusion with business on this... along with Mexico as well.

I just hate seeing the "shiftless, lazy, welfare using" illegals getting blamed for a problem we caused... damn those lazy mexicans for WORKING here...

I don't blame Arizona for their law which CLEARLY is out of place and oversteps a State's bounds... they felt they had to do SOMETHING... but it's a Federal problem that our Federal govt has ignored for years.

BUT the solution isn't to become a bunch of xenophobic morons.. the solution is to fix the damn bureaucratic nightmare that makes immigrants HAVE to come her illegally in the first place.

Mile High Mania
06-04-2010, 06:48 AM
Kyle, I may have a problem with a 50 mile an hour speed limit... the consensus may be that 70 is ideal. But, if 100 people a day drive 70 in that 50 mph zone, they'll all get tickets and eventually lose their licenses.

My point is just because a system may be flawed and need of improvement, doesn't mean it's ok to break the law and you don't get a pass for breaking the law.

Fix the law, improve the system - fine. But, if you broke the law to get into this country (and I don't care how nice you are)... then you pay a fine, get deported, something. You don't get fast-tracked into becoming a citizen. I'm not against immigration at all, it should be easier to become a US citizen... but not simple. You're not joining a gym, there should be some hurdles.

WhitiE
06-04-2010, 06:57 AM
Kyle, I may have a problem with a 50 mile an hour speed limit... the consensus may be that 70 is ideal. But, if 100 people a day drive 70 in that 50 mph zone, they'll all get tickets and eventually lose their licenses.

My point is just because a system may be flawed and need of improvement, doesn't mean it's ok to break the law and you don't get a pass for breaking the law.

Fix the law, improve the system - fine. But, if you broke the law to get into this country (and I don't care how nice you are)... then you pay a fine, get deported, something. You don't get fast-tracked into becoming a citizen. I'm not against immigration at all, it should be easier to become a US citizen... but not simple. You're not joining a gym, there should be some hurdles.

yup

kaplin42
06-04-2010, 10:37 AM
OK, I don't normally chime in on the immigration argument since it is far too complex to properly adress on a BBS... BUT.. for all of those that are anti-immigration or whatever... I understand the idea behind keeping track of our borders and such... BUT DO YOU REALLY WANT TO BE LIKE THEM.. by "them" I mean damn near every other pissant country in the world that is full of xenophobic a$$holes. Do we want to France or Germany or Korea or China... we are better than that.

Just something I'd like people to mull over... our lax immigration policies are something that sets us apart from those worthless *****. Yes the system is broken, but we should be able to fix it without turning in to THEM. Yet, every solution I hear is a resounding echo of THEIR policies... guys, we are smarter and better than this.

ok, I'll be back tomorrow to take shite over this post...

Austin, the thing that should be said here, is that the Arizona law is not Anti-Immigration, quite the opposite really. It's just anti-illegal immigration.

Baring some insane extremists (which both sides have) no one is saying that immigration is a bad thing. In fact, I believe that most people acknowledge that this country was built on immigration. However, I do believe that illegal-immigration is different. Every country has a right to protect its borders and its citizens, allowing illegal immigration is a complete failure in those respects.

Just wait until the next real terrorist attack happens, and it's discovered that the people responsible came through the unchecked Mexican or Canadian border. The rest of the states will be signing similar bills that match Arizona's within days.

This is not to mention the drain on the local communities where illegal immigrants tend to gather. It's not fair for those of us that are getting raped by our local city, state and federal governments to have to pay taxes for the schooling, medical and other common utilities while they contribute nothing.

donkhater
06-04-2010, 11:32 AM
Austin, the thing that should be said here, is that the Arizona law is not Anti-Immigration, quite the opposite really. It's just anti-illegal immigration.

Baring some insane extremists (which both sides have) no one is saying that immigration is a bad thing. In fact, I believe that most people acknowledge that this country was built on immigration. However, I do believe that illegal-immigration is different. Every country has a right to protect its borders and its citizens, allowing illegal immigration is a complete failure in those respects.

Just wait until the next real terrorist attack happens, and it's discovered that the people responsible came through the unchecked Mexican or Canadian border. The rest of the states will be signing similar bills that match Arizona's within days.

This is not to mention the drain on the local communities where illegal immigrants tend to gather. It's not fair for those of us that are getting raped by our local city, state and federal governments to have to pay taxes for the schooling, medical and other common utilities while they contribute nothing.


Absolutely. Or, if you don't mind, put more succicntly--a country without borders isn't a country.

donkhater
06-04-2010, 11:41 AM
OK, I don't normally chime in on the immigration argument since it is far too complex to properly adress on a BBS... BUT.. for all of those that are anti-immigration or whatever... I understand the idea behind keeping track of our borders and such... BUT DO YOU REALLY WANT TO BE LIKE THEM.. by "them" I mean damn near every other pissant country in the world that is full of xenophobic a$$holes. Do we want to France or Germany or Korea or China... we are better than that.

Just something I'd like people to mull over... our lax immigration policies are something that sets us apart from those worthless *****. Yes the system is broken, but we should be able to fix it without turning in to THEM. Yet, every solution I hear is a resounding echo of THEIR policies... guys, we are smarter and better than this.

ok, I'll be back tomorrow to take shite over this post...

The progressives have successfully highjacked the issue to make it a racist one (like they do for every last ditch effort on their part).

The real issue is about uses a nation's resources and wealth on it's own citizens. For too long both parties have ignored it because of the enivitable "racists!" charge from the left. At a time when the national debt is $13 trillion plus and the annual budget deficits are ballooning out of control, most of America is finally waking up to the fact that we have MILLIONS of trespassers, who are exporting wealth out of this country and using up resources that taxpayers pay for CITIZENS of this country to use.


I find all this quite amusing. What exactly do illegal immigrants want? citizenship? Wouldn't they then be subject to Federal minimum wage laws and thus lose their competitive advantage in lower wage jobs? Don't you think we have exploited these people enough?

kaplin42
06-04-2010, 12:19 PM
I find all this quite amusing. What exactly do illegal immigrants want? citizenship? Wouldn't they then be subject to Federal minimum wage laws and thus lose their competitive advantage in lower wage jobs? Don't you think we have exploited these people enough?


Yeah I love this too. The most common excuse is they do the jobs we wont do, and they do it for less money, so they should get amnesty.

But they don't realize, that by law, american citizens have to be paid so much per hour, and if full time have to have health insurance, plus benefits and all that jazz. So much for cheap labor. The people that argue for this, basicaly are shooting there only real argument for illigal immigration right in the foot.


As for the racist thing. I accuse them of being racist, because thats the first thing they go to. They automaticaly cause one is white, and against illegal immigration, that one must have secret ties to nazis a and other white supremicist organizations, rather than just being logical and looking at the bigger issue.

ClevelandBronco
06-04-2010, 12:31 PM
...the solution is to fix the damn bureaucratic nightmare that makes immigrants HAVE to come her illegally in the first place.

Streamlining the immigration process seems to me to be an abominably bad idea.

I'd rather see us make it so painful to hire an illegal immigrant that there's no reason for them to come here illegally because there will be no jobs waiting for them.

Immigration is a good thing, IMO, but we have every right to be very picky about who we allow in. The ability to operate a weedwacker isn't on the list of skills that I'd be looking for in a qualified candidate for immigration.

AustinChief
06-04-2010, 01:49 PM
Kyle, I may have a problem with a 50 mile an hour speed limit... the consensus may be that 70 is ideal. But, if 100 people a day drive 70 in that 50 mph zone, they'll all get tickets and eventually lose their licenses.

My point is just because a system may be flawed and need of improvement, doesn't mean it's ok to break the law and you don't get a pass for breaking the law.

Fix the law, improve the system - fine. But, if you broke the law to get into this country (and I don't care how nice you are)... then you pay a fine, get deported, something. You don't get fast-tracked into becoming a citizen. I'm not against immigration at all, it should be easier to become a US citizen... but not simple. You're not joining a gym, there should be some hurdles.

I agree that it shouldn't be as easy as joining a gym.. but right now it is a complete an utter joke. I don't think anyone should get a "free pass"... but as I said... I completely understand why people break the law's as they are...

I'm going to bow out of this argument now but unless a person has dealt DIRECTLY with this issue on multiple levels.. it is hard to imagine that they can even slightly understand how broken our system really is....

AustinChief
06-04-2010, 01:53 PM
oh and for the record, I'm not claiming anyone was being racist... just xenophobic... although there have been a number of fairly racist comments in quite a few threads on this issue... I'm all for racist comments if they're funny... but the posts I have seen were just kinda sad...

I agree that the far left uses the "THAT'S RACIST" card all too often.

AustinChief
06-04-2010, 02:07 PM
Streamlining the immigration process seems to me to be an abominably bad idea.

I'd rather see us make it so painful to hire an illegal immigrant that there's no reason for them to come here illegally because there will be no jobs waiting for them.

Immigration is a good thing, IMO, but we have every right to be very picky about who we allow in. The ability to operate a weedwacker isn't on the list of skills that I'd be looking for in a qualified candidate for immigration.

I don't think you understand how BROKEN our system is. I also disagree on being overly selective... I think the selction process should be based on security alone.

Sign up, go through extensive background checks, once passed you can come in on provesional visa that allows you to work toward citizenship. If the process was that easy... I would have no problem with a shoot on site border policy... the ONLY people crossing illegally would be criminals or terrorists or other state enemies.

I do agree that we need to enfore the laws against businesses that hire illegals and pay them below minimum wage... that simply hurts everyone... but we need to take the time to fix the whole damn system while we are at it.

Anyway, I'm out of this... my oversimplified explanation of what I want doesn't do the issue justice. Needless to say, it's time the Federal government does SOMETHING on this.

googlegoogle
06-04-2010, 10:22 PM
Didn't we have a war with the Mexicans once?

Shouldn't we just arm them and overthrow the Mexican government?

Chiefs Rool
06-04-2010, 10:54 PM
Why don't we just go down there and take mexico, the whole thing. I bet it wouldn't be that hard for us.

HonestChieffan
06-04-2010, 11:54 PM
They make 8 bucks a day working on ranches in Sonora. You think they wont still try to come here just cause you punish an employer? They are desperate cause mexico is a roach motel of corruption and has been forever. At some point you have to do what you have to do to stop the tide of illegals ruining the economy of the border states and moving north every day.

Illegal immigration is the issue. Not Race. Not racism. Turn them around at the border and start sending the rest back. If they come in legally its a no brainer.

googlegoogle
06-05-2010, 12:11 AM
Why don't we just go down there and take mexico, the whole thing. I bet it wouldn't be that hard for us.

It really is like an act of war. It's not obvious but they intentionally diregard law. Their gov sponsors it and they make some $$$ from it.

ClevelandBronco
06-05-2010, 12:32 AM
They make 8 bucks a day working on ranches in Sonora. You think they wont still try to come here just cause you punish an employer?

Yes. Employers who are in prison are employers who probably aren't hiring.

KC native
06-05-2010, 12:38 AM
ME? none. BUT I have no problem with illegals when our system to make them legal is so completely screwed up that it's damn near impossible... WE (our govt./business infrastructure) have put this system in place and have no intention of changing it.. it HURTS the average American and it KILLS the average "illegal" making them willing slave labor...

Our federal (and most State) govmt. are to blame for tacit collusion with business on this... along with Mexico as well.

I just hate seeing the "shiftless, lazy, welfare using" illegals getting blamed for a problem we caused... damn those lazy mexicans for WORKING here...

I don't blame Arizona for their law which CLEARLY is out of place and oversteps a State's bounds... they felt they had to do SOMETHING... but it's a Federal problem that our Federal govt has ignored for years.

BUT the solution isn't to become a bunch of xenophobic morons.. the solution is to fix the damn bureaucratic nightmare that makes immigrants HAVE to come her illegally in the first place.

:bravo: Finally someone who is willing to talk sense. rep.

KC native
06-05-2010, 12:42 AM
I don't think you understand how BROKEN our system is. I also disagree on being overly selective... I think the selction process should be based on security alone.

Sign up, go through extensive background checks, once passed you can come in on provesional visa that allows you to work toward citizenship. If the process was that easy... I would have no problem with a shoot on site border policy... the ONLY people crossing illegally would be criminals or terrorists or other state enemies.

I do agree that we need to enfore the laws against businesses that hire illegals and pay them below minimum wage... that simply hurts everyone... but we need to take the time to fix the whole damn system while we are at it.

Anyway, I'm out of this... my oversimplified explanation of what I want doesn't do the issue justice. Needless to say, it's time the Federal government does SOMETHING on this.

With the exception of the shoot on site part, this is exactly where I stand. You wouldn't know that though from listening to the gasbags criticisms of me.

Mr. Kotter
06-05-2010, 12:43 AM
Yes. Employers who are in prison are employers who probably aren't hiring.

If they can't follow the law, maybe they belong in prison...bro??? :hmmm:

Mr. Kotter
06-05-2010, 12:46 AM
They make 8 bucks a day working on ranches in Sonora. You think they wont still try to come here just cause you punish an employer? They are desperate cause mexico is a roach motel of corruption and has been forever. At some point you have to do what you have to do to stop the tide of illegals ruining the economy of the border states and moving north every day.

Illegal immigration is the issue. Not Race. Not racism. Turn them around at the border and start sending the rest back. If they come in legally its a no brainer.

No jobs? No "illegal" problem? Oh, but of course, we can't "punish" businesses, can we? Or, can we?

Pretty simple to anyone with a real brain, right? :rolleyes:

ClevelandBronco
06-05-2010, 01:51 AM
If they can't follow the law, maybe they belong in prison...bro??? :hmmm:

That's all I'm saying.

HoneyBadger
06-05-2010, 02:48 AM
ME? none. BUT I have no problem with illegals when our system to make them legal is so completely screwed up that it's damn near impossible... WE (our govt./business infrastructure) have put this system in place and have no intention of changing it.. it HURTS the average American and it KILLS the average "illegal" making them willing slave labor...

Our federal (and most State) govmt. are to blame for tacit collusion with business on this... along with Mexico as well.

I just hate seeing the "shiftless, lazy, welfare using" illegals getting blamed for a problem we caused... damn those lazy mexicans for WORKING here...

I don't blame Arizona for their law which CLEARLY is out of place and oversteps a State's bounds... they felt they had to do SOMETHING... but it's a Federal problem that our Federal govt has ignored for years.

BUT the solution isn't to become a bunch of xenophobic morons.. the solution is to fix the damn bureaucratic nightmare that makes immigrants HAVE to come her illegally in the first place.

No. Federal law allows for states to deal with illegal-immigration.

googlegoogle
06-05-2010, 03:30 AM
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AustinChief
06-05-2010, 03:59 AM
No. Federal law allows for states to deal with illegal-immigration.

No it really doesn't... nor should it... it's a federal fuck up... that the STATES are having to address because our federal govt is too pussy to deall with it in a proper fashion. I don't BLAME Arizona.. they did what they felt they needed to do... BUT it is not their place to do so... AZ should have just made it an issue and blamed the fed for not fixing it and then refuesed to allow federal intervention on ANYTHING.. the federal govt owes a STATE certain rights and IF held to that standard the STATE owes the fed reciprocally.... the fed didn't upheld their end.. AZ has every right to react..

BUT that dosn't at all address the REAL problem...

Otter
06-05-2010, 04:02 AM
With the exception of the shoot on site part, this is exactly where I stand. You wouldn't know that though from listening to the gasbags criticisms of me.

Yes, once again, it's everyone else not who is being difficult to reason with you when discussing a topic. Sit back and think for a moment why Austin Chief could compose the excact philosiphy you claim to represent without so much as an insult or devation from civil discussion but you are unable. That's your trump card: the victim and racism.

But I digress.

Kyle, immigrants are being brought into America at record numbers through all kinds of legal paths. Particularly H1B visas. Sorry, I'm sitting on the dumper getting ready to go for a run and not going to do the research at the moment.

What do you want to do with these people once they get here when there already isn't enough jobs and money to fund the blue collar workers we already have?

Please don't tell me Americans are lazy and won't work. Take a look out the window. American made 99.9% of it.

Immigration needs to be regulated and as said before, we already have enough people that can operate a weed wacker that can't find a job.

AustinChief
06-05-2010, 04:17 AM
Yes, once again, it's everyone else not who is being difficult to reason with you when discussing a topic. Sit back and think for a moment why Austin Chief could compose the excact philosiphy you claim to represent without so much as an insult or devation from civil discussion but you are unable. That's your trump card: the victim and racism.

But I digress.

Kyle, immigrants are being brought into America at record numbers through all kinds of legal paths. Particularly H1B visas. Sorry, I'm sitting on the dumper getting ready to go for a run and not going to do the research at the moment.

What do you want to do with these people once they get here when there already isn't enough jobs and money to fund the blue collar workers we already have?

Please don't tell me Americans are lazy and won't work. Take a look out the window. American made 99.9% of it.

Immigration needs to be regulated and as said before, we already have enough people that can operate a weed wacker that can't find a job.

I love ya to death BUT the truth is that the more hard working lower class citizens we allow into America.. the HEALTHIER our country is... America is a nation of INOVATION... what we LACK is slave labor... it is WHY China is catching up... the more lower class INDUSTRIOUS labor we have.. the more prosperous we are.... if we stop being piss ignorant xenophobes... we can have the best of both worlds... cheapish labor AND inovation. Lets' be something DIFFERRENT and BETTER then the rest... we did it once before we can do it again... INNOVATE AND allow immigration to ACTUATE... take a step back and look at the TRUE big picture...

Otter
06-05-2010, 06:45 AM
I love ya to death BUT the truth is that the more hard working lower class citizens we allow into America.. the HEALTHIER our country is... America is a nation of INOVATION... what we LACK is slave labor... it is WHY China is catching up... the more lower class INDUSTRIOUS labor we have.. the more prosperous we are.... if we stop being piss ignorant xenophobes... we can have the best of both worlds... cheapish labor AND inovation. Lets' be something DIFFERRENT and BETTER then the rest... we did it once before we can do it again... INNOVATE AND allow immigration to ACTUATE... take a step back and look at the TRUE big picture...

I don't think your use of "xenophobia" is fair because by definition it's " is the uncontrollable fear of foreigners". That's not the case. At least in the view I represent. I'm not sure why you would want to assimilate China in any way shape or form either besides exploiting a blue collar labor force.

In 20 minutes I need to catch an Amtrak to go to a class. I'd love to talk about this more for no other reason than I respect you views. As Arnold said "I'll be back".

Excuse the cheese.

ROYC75
06-05-2010, 12:49 PM
Seriously? They are EXTREMELY xenophobic... as is almost all of Europe... I had someone in Spain tell me how racist America is.. at which point I asked about Morocans... (they call all Arabs, Moroccans) and they actually told me ... "that's different.. it's not racist.. they aren't really people..." oh.. well that's ok then!

France and Germany are xenophobic.. just like Spain and the rest... tthey are just "selectively" xenophobic... if that makes sense...

We are being selective as well, it's the illegals from Mexico at the present time. We really don't have much of a problem with the Canadians.

It comes down to $$$$ the American people are shelling out to care for them and the drug traffic that has gotten out of hand over the last 10 years.

I remember living in Aransas pass Tx in 81 - 83 and we didn't really have the problem along the Tx border. I use to traveled a lot to Laredo, Brownsville, El Paso and all border towns between and the problem of illegals was not like it is today.But today, the Tx - Mx border is just as bad as Az, it's just Az is standing up for their rights to being an American, just wanting to live in a safe environment.

googlegoogle
06-05-2010, 08:25 PM
I love ya to death BUT the truth is that the more hard working lower class citizens we allow into America.. the HEALTHIER our country is... America is a nation of INOVATION... what we LACK is slave labor... it is WHY China is catching up... the more lower class INDUSTRIOUS labor we have.. the more prosperous we are.... if we stop being piss ignorant xenophobes... we can have the best of both worlds... cheapish labor AND inovation. Lets' be something DIFFERRENT and BETTER then the rest... we did it once before we can do it again... INNOVATE AND allow immigration to ACTUATE... take a step back and look at the TRUE big picture...

We are not China. And immigration isn't costless. Think healthcare and crime.

Saul Good
06-05-2010, 08:42 PM
I love ya to death BUT the truth is that the more hard working lower class citizens we allow into America.. the HEALTHIER our country is... America is a nation of INOVATION... what we LACK is slave labor... it is WHY China is catching up... the more lower class INDUSTRIOUS labor we have.. the more prosperous we are.... if we stop being piss ignorant xenophobes... we can have the best of both worlds... cheapish labor AND inovation. Lets' be something DIFFERRENT and BETTER then the rest... we did it once before we can do it again... INNOVATE AND allow immigration to ACTUATE... take a step back and look at the TRUE big picture...

I understand the sentiment, but creating a permanent underclass isn't the answer.

AustinChief
06-06-2010, 03:49 AM
I understand the sentiment, but creating a permanent underclass isn't the answer.

No one is advocating a PERMANENT underclass... they come her KNOWING that they start at the bottom and through MERIT work their way up... the only way it is PERMANENT is by allowing a constant FLOW of people willing to start at the bottom... IT IS WHAT made America LEAP ahead of the rest of the world at one point... those same immigrants from 100+ years ago now RUN this country... I have no problem with the next batch being industrious Mexicans, Salvadorians, Columbians, etc etc...

I think too many of us think that if they aren't Eurotrash..they don't deserve that same chance... which is EXACTLY where Europe is today... How are they doing???

BigChiefFan
06-06-2010, 07:11 AM
Try paying money out of your pocket to do things right and then see these leeches come over here for free, only to sponge off the system. Fuck them and anybody that supports the free ride mentality-that's what needs to stop. Austin's off base by a mile.

AustinChief
06-06-2010, 12:54 PM
Try paying money out of your pocket to do things right and then see these leeches come over here for free, only to sponge off the system. Fuck them and anybody that supports the free ride mentality-that's what needs to stop. Austin's off base by a mile.

LEECHES???? You apparently don't know much about the hispanic culture here. They come here TO WORK... and they DO.

Currently illegals contribute 7 BILLION dollars a year (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?_r=1&ex=1270353600&en=78c87ac4641dc383&ei=5090)to social security in taxes withheld.

NOW that said.. there are criminal illegals that should have never been allowed in and not allowed to stay... but with the system as broken as it is, they get lumped in with all the good ones.. which are a vast majority.

irishjayhawk
06-06-2010, 12:59 PM
It's endlessly hilarious when the same people wanting government out of our lives & business are the same people wanting government to step in (immigration, oil spill).

Mile High Mania
06-06-2010, 02:11 PM
I agree that it shouldn't be as easy as joining a gym.. but right now it is a complete an utter joke. I don't think anyone should get a "free pass"... but as I said... I completely understand why people break the law's as they are...

I'm going to bow out of this argument now but unless a person has dealt DIRECTLY with this issue on multiple levels.. it is hard to imagine that they can even slightly understand how broken our system really is....

Honestly, it doesn't matter how broken a system is... you don't break the law because you don't like the law, even if the majority thinks the law should be fixed.

I also don't think it matters how much involvement with the issue anyone has had or not... the law is the law, fix it, enforce it... but if you break it, there should be consequences.

AustinChief
06-06-2010, 02:37 PM
Honestly, it doesn't matter how broken a system is... you don't break the law because you don't like the law, even if the majority thinks the law should be fixed.

I also don't think it matters how much involvement with the issue anyone has had or not... the law is the law, fix it, enforce it... but if you break it, there should be consequences.

I disagree.. when a law or system becomes so broken that it is unjust.. it becomes a question of civil disobediance.

cdcox
06-06-2010, 02:50 PM
The people who benefit most from the current immigration policy are corporations. Consumers benefit from suppressed food and construction costs, probably other industries as well. Those same consumers suffer from higher taxes and dilution of government services that they have paid for. The best way to combat illegal immigration is to boycott the corporations that use illegals or suppliers that hire illegals. With the overwhelming amount of public outcry over illegals, the economic power is there. My guess is that most people don't really care enough about the issue to let it affect their consumer choices, but do like to bitch about it.

cdcox
06-06-2010, 02:52 PM
Also, there is virtually no way for a working-class immigrant to legally work in the US, let alone become a citizen.

ClevelandBronco
06-06-2010, 03:27 PM
Also, there is virtually no way for a working-class immigrant to legally work in the US, let alone become a citizen.

And with our current unemployment rate there should be virtually no way for them to work here or become citizens.

cdcox
06-06-2010, 03:29 PM
And with our current unemployment rate there should be virtually no way for them to work here or become citizens.

Boycott corporations that benefit from using them.

ClevelandBronco
06-06-2010, 03:34 PM
Boycott corporations that benefit from using them.

Do you have a list?

mlyonsd
06-06-2010, 03:45 PM
The dems currently have the presidency and both houses and they can't find a way to impose serious penalties (jail time) for anyone employing an illegal?

Funny isn't it?

cdcox
06-06-2010, 03:45 PM
Do you have a list?

Check your rep.

cdcox
06-06-2010, 03:48 PM
The dems currently have the presidency and both houses and they can't find a way to impose serious penalties (jail time) for anyone employing an illegal?

Funny isn't it?

Enforcement is the executive branch. Bush did no better.

If you think either the Republicans or the Democrats want to start arresting corporate people who knowingly hire illegals I find that funny.

mlyonsd
06-06-2010, 03:53 PM
Enforcement is the executive branch. Bush did no better.

If you think either the Republicans or the Democrats want to start arresting corporate people who knowingly hire illegals I find that funny.

Absolutely agree with both polical parties being the problem. Not just part of the problem but the entire problem.

But as a taxpayer the answer is easy. Jerk anyone employing an illegal out of the population for 6 months and the problem is solved.

mlyonsd
06-06-2010, 03:56 PM
It's time to change the law that if you are born here and don't have at least one legal in country parent you are not a citizen. And DNA testing should be manditory if there is a question.

banyon
06-06-2010, 03:56 PM
Do you have a list?

I've got a list, just in my area alone:

National Beef Packing
Cargill, Inc.
Tyson (in Garden/Holcomb)
Taco Bell
Sonic
McDonalds
Wal-Mart Stores,Inc.
Burger King
Archer Daniels Midland
JAG Construction

cdcox
06-06-2010, 03:58 PM
Check your rep.

Actually, google any major chicken producer and illegal aliens and you are going to get a ton of hits. Sometimes the companies are acquitted, but that just shows that the justice department isn't trying very hard.

All of the fast food chains are getting their chicken from these major suppliers.

mlyonsd
06-06-2010, 03:59 PM
I've got a list, just in my area alone:

National Beef Packing
Cargill, Inc.
Tyson (in Garden/Holcomb)
Taco Bell
Sonic
McDonalds
Wal-Mart Stores,Inc.
Burger King
Archer Daniels Midland
JAG Construction

I'll have to disagree about Tyson. I've worked for them and hiring legals is closely monitored. If documents are altered that isn't Tyson's problem.

banyon
06-06-2010, 04:00 PM
I'll have to disagree about Tyson. I've worked for them and hiring legals is closely monitored. If documents are altered that isn't Tyson's problem.

It's OUR problem if the checks are insufficient or Tyson is willfully ignorant of it.

Do you mean Tyson in W. Kansas? Because I'm sure it's very different than Tyson in Arkansas for instance, demographically.

ClevelandBronco
06-06-2010, 04:02 PM
I've got a list, just in my area alone:

National Beef Packing
Cargill, Inc.
Tyson (in Garden/Holcomb)
Taco Bell
Sonic
McDonalds
Wal-Mart Stores,Inc.
Burger King
Archer Daniels Midland
JAG Construction

No problem as long as I produce everything I eat.

banyon
06-06-2010, 04:04 PM
No problem as long as I produce everything I eat.

Do you not shop at Walmart and build your own roads too? Because those were the other two companies on the list.

cdcox
06-06-2010, 04:04 PM
I'll have to disagree about Tyson. I've worked for them and hiring legals is closely monitored. If documents are altered that isn't Tyson's problem.

Have things changed since 2006?

http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/28/news/companies/companies_boycott/index.htm

mlyonsd
06-06-2010, 04:08 PM
It's OUR problem if the checks are insufficient or Tyson is willfully ignorant of it.
Agree.


Do you mean Tyson in W. Kansas? Because I'm sure it's very different than Tyson in Arkansas for instance, demographically.

I mean all of them.

cdcox
06-06-2010, 04:08 PM
No problem as long as I produce everything I eat.

I'm pretty sure if even 20M people got serious about buying food produced only by legally documented workers that industry would respond to that demand. Consumer power is probably as important as the vote as corporate power grows and both political parties cater to their wishes. Of course people would have to make their spending decisions based on something other than lowest cost alone.

mlyonsd
06-06-2010, 04:12 PM
Have things changed since 2006?

http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/28/news/companies/companies_boycott/index.htm

Not real sure what that link has anything to do with my post.

ClevelandBronco
06-06-2010, 04:13 PM
Do you not shop at Walmart and build your own roads too? Because those were the other two companies on the list.

I could hold off on Walmart without missing it. Without roads it's going to be a bit trickier getting all the seeds and shit I'll need.

Hmm. I'm going to literally need shit.

ClevelandBronco
06-06-2010, 04:17 PM
I'm pretty sure if even 20M people got serious about buying food produced only by legally documented workers that industry would respond to that demand. Consumer power is probably as important as the vote as corporate power grows and both political parties cater to their wishes. Of course people would have to make their spending decisions based on something other than lowest cost alone.

I absolutely agree, and I'm actually willing to attempt to avoid doing business with companies that have a track record of hiring illegals.

What I won't be doing is to attempt to lead a movement of 20 million people.

cdcox
06-06-2010, 04:19 PM
Not real sure what that link has anything to do with my post.

Tyson has to close 9 plants due to protests by immigrant workers. Just how many legal immigrant unskilled laborers of Hispanic decent are in the US?

mlyonsd
06-06-2010, 04:20 PM
I'm pretty sure if even 20M people got serious about buying food produced only by legally documented workers that industry would respond to that demand. Consumer power is probably as important as the vote as corporate power grows and both political parties cater to their wishes. Of course people would have to make their spending decisions based on something other than lowest cost alone.

We're experiencing the backlash to a global economy. Period.

cdcox
06-06-2010, 04:22 PM
We're experiencing the backlash to a global economy. Period.

Consumers are voting with their pocket books in favor of it.

BucEyedPea
06-06-2010, 04:22 PM
The progressives have successfully highjacked the issue to make it a racist one (like they do for every last ditch effort on their part).
Even when you can't be racist over a group that's not a race but an ethnicity/Nationality.

mlyonsd
06-06-2010, 04:51 PM
Consumers are voting with their pocket books in favor of it.

Totally agree. Because we're stupid.

AustinChief
06-06-2010, 07:54 PM
Tyson has to close 9 plants due to protests by immigrant workers. Just how many legal immigrant unskilled laborers of Hispanic decent are in the US?


Legal immigrants to the United States now are at their highest level ever at over 37,000,000 legal immigrants. Illegal immigration may be as high as 1,500,000 per year with a net of at least 700,000 illegal immigrants arriving each year to join the 12,000,000 (estimate) that are already there.

Even with that many immigrants, out growth rate is at 1% and declining... the world growth rate is 1.1% and declining as well.

BigChiefFan
06-07-2010, 01:06 AM
What part of Illegal MEXICAN, don't you get? They aren't AMERICANS, so they haven't earned any rights or freedoms of our country. ask the school system if it's over-burdened. Their contributions don't even come close to the benefits they TAKE. Cry me a river. Fix your own damn country.

kaplin42
06-07-2010, 12:37 PM
The dems currently have the presidency and both houses and they can't find a way to impose serious penalties (jail time) for anyone employing an illegal?

Funny isn't it?

The Reps had it for two terms before that and were looking to push through amnesty. Whats your point? or is it just another chance to talk shit about one party or another with out actually doing anything?

The Mad Crapper
07-06-2010, 09:45 PM
http://lighthousepatriotjournal.files.wordpress.com/2006/06/mexifornia-license.jpg

LMAO

CrazyPhuD
07-06-2010, 10:45 PM
I'm pretty sure if even 20M people got serious about buying food produced only by legally documented workers that industry would respond to that demand. Consumer power is probably as important as the vote as corporate power grows and both political parties cater to their wishes. Of course people would have to make their spending decisions based on something other than lowest cost alone.

LOL we have dolphin free tuna, now we need marketing for immigrant free tomatoes! ROFL Somehow I think that wouldn't go over well, but it would be awesome if someone did it. Then people put their money where their mouths are.

Otter
07-07-2010, 12:52 AM
Even with that many immigrants, out growth rate is at 1% and declining... the world growth rate is 1.1% and declining as well.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make when you pull out this stat. The world population is at 7 billion and the US population is at 310 million and at 1% we're basically holding steady.

What's your goal? How much do you think the world or the US could sustain? Do you want to live a China or India type nation where we're flied away one on top of the other?

Fruit Ninja
07-07-2010, 01:17 AM
i get tired of filling out their I-9's. That shit is a pain in the ass with an alien resident card for working.

Plus, they got the longest names in the world. Thats my only reason why i give a fuck. Yes, i am Mexican, but when you got Juan-Pablo-Jimenez, then his brothers name is Pablo-Juan-Jimenez, its make it a bitch!!!!!!!! lol

Otter
07-07-2010, 09:08 AM
Bump for AustinChief answer.