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KurtCobain
06-05-2010, 10:09 PM
Opinions?
Damnit, this was supposed to be a poll, but i failed.

Is he(as of now)....

Not a Hall Of Famer
Hall of Famer already
Hall of Famer(with solid numbers in WAS)
Hall of Famer(with a superbowl in WAS)
Hall of Famer(with two superbowls in WAS)
Hall of Famer(with two-plus superbowls in AND solid numbers in WAS for atleast 4-5 years.)

Kerberos
06-05-2010, 10:11 PM
He's a stinking Redskin.

BWillie
06-05-2010, 10:11 PM
The Allen Iverson of football, except not as large of a dbag

milkman
06-05-2010, 10:14 PM
He would have been better suited for a more vertical, play action style than the WC offense.

Overrated, for the most part, primarily because his talent was wasted in the WC offense.

KCChiefsMan
06-05-2010, 11:21 PM
Great QB, HOF nominee for sure. I'm gonna say that he will need a ring to get in at this point though.

KurtCobain
06-05-2010, 11:23 PM
Great QB, HOF nominee for sure. I'm gonna say that he will need a ring to get in at this point though.

So, if he retired today, you think he would be a nominee?

KCChiefsMan
06-05-2010, 11:25 PM
yes, I do think he would.

Baconeater
06-05-2010, 11:25 PM
If you have to ask if someone is a HOFer, then they're not a HOFer.

KurtCobain
06-05-2010, 11:26 PM
If you have to ask if someone is a HOFer, then they're not a HOFer.

I have a huge problem with the HOF. I don't think Marino should be in it.

milkman
06-05-2010, 11:27 PM
I have a huge problem with the HOF. I don't think Marino should be in it.

You should stop thinking.

KCChiefsMan
06-05-2010, 11:29 PM
I have a huge problem with the HOF. I don't think Marino should be in it.

wow

KurtCobain
06-05-2010, 11:30 PM
You should stop thinking.

QBs should have rings to get in.

milkman
06-05-2010, 11:34 PM
QBs should have rings to get in.

While I think that how a QB performs in the post season is pertinent to a QB's legacy, the fact remains that football, more than any other sport, is a team game, and the reality is that Marino didn't really have a SB team surrounding him.

EyePod
06-05-2010, 11:35 PM
I don't know. I put him ahead of Big Ben if he has a SB, and I don't put Ben in the HOF. I don't think he's a SB unless he does it 3 times.

-King-
06-05-2010, 11:37 PM
I have a huge problem with the HOF. I don't think Marino should be in it.

Damn I wish I could borrow OTW58's Adam Sandler pic. This will have to do for now :spock:

KCChiefsMan
06-05-2010, 11:39 PM
QBs should have rings to get in.

but every other position is ok to not have a ring?

KurtCobain
06-05-2010, 11:42 PM
but every other position is ok to not have a ring?

Yes. Except for kickers, they need five, and three superbowl winning kicks.

Pioli Zombie
06-06-2010, 07:00 AM
You can't let McNabb into the HOF. It'll ruin the neighborhood!!

milkman
06-06-2010, 07:13 AM
You can't let McNabb into the HOF. It'll ruin the neighborhood!!

Funny thing is, I believe you honestly feel that way.

boogblaster
06-06-2010, 07:19 AM
NO ... he proved his worth in the SB he was in ....

Gonzo
06-06-2010, 07:37 AM
So, with this logic, you're saying that if a player doesn't have a ring he shouldn't be in the hof?

So D.T. Will Shields, Willie Roaf etc. shouldn't be in there either?

Answer carefully of face the wrath of CP.
Posted via Mobile Device

milkman
06-06-2010, 08:00 AM
So, with this logic, you're saying that if a player doesn't have a ring he shouldn't be in the hof?

So D.T. Will Shields, Willie Roaf etc. shouldn't be in there either?

Answer carefully of face the wrath of CP.
Posted via Mobile Device

He stated this logic only applies to QBs.

Oh, and kickers.

Gonzo
06-06-2010, 08:20 AM
He stated this logic only applies to QBs.

Oh, and kickers.

Oh ok, I missed that.
Posted via Mobile Device

cdcox
06-06-2010, 08:36 AM
The following SB-era QBs have been inducted into the HOF without winning a SB:

Sonny Jurgensen
Fran Tarkenton
Warren Moon
Jim Kelly
Dan Marino
Dan Fouts
George Blanda

Suffice it to say that George Blanda was not inducted to the HOF based on his QB play, so I'm not going to include him in this discussion.

Of the remaining QBs, Tarkenton, Marino, Moon, and Fouts were dominant and exciting players that in my book are slam dunks. I saw all of these players and it was worth turning on the game when ever they were playing.

That leaves Jurgensen and Kelly for comparison to McNabb. It is difficult to compare numbers across eras. I didn't see Jurgensen in his prime. I've seen plenty of Kelly and McNabb. Both are solid but neither one an exciting QB. I'm going to use pro bowls and all-pro as the next comparison, with all-pro counting more heavily than pro-bowls.

McNabb 5 PB, 0 AP
Jurgensen 5 PB, 2 AP
Kelly 5 PB, 1 AP

It appears that Kelly is the closest QB for comparison to McNabb. Both were QBs on teams that had long runs of success, without ever winning the whole enchilada. The Bills were more successful than the McNabb Eagles, but the Bills had a better surrounding cast. If McNabb were to retire now I don't think he would be deserving.

To show how weak McNabbs case is, lets say that McNabb plays a few more solid years and reaches 44K yards passing without winning a SB. The case would be stronger. But then do you put Drew Bledsoe in, who would have similar numbers? I never thought I was watching a HOFer when I was watching Drew Bledsoe, and that is the way I feel about McNabb.

Finally consider that McNabb is 33. Here are the other top QBs at his age: Peyton Manning (33) and Tom Brady (32). Drew Brees is 30. What will his accomplishments look like 3 years from now?

Gonzo
06-06-2010, 08:48 AM
The following SB-era QBs have been inducted into the HOF without winning a SB:

Sonny Jurgensen
Fran Tarkenton
Warren Moon
Jim Kelly
Dan Marino
Dan Fouts
George Blanda

Suffice it to say that George Blanda was not inducted to the HOF based on his QB play, so I'm not going to include him in this discussion.

Of the remaining QBs, Tarkenton, Marino, Moon, and Fouts were dominant and exciting players that in my book are slam dunks. I saw all of these players and it was worth turning on the game when ever they were playing.

That leaves Jurgensen and Kelly for comparison to McNabb. It is difficult to compare numbers across eras. I didn't see Jurgensen in his prime. I've seen plenty of Kelly and McNabb. Both are solid but neither one an exciting QB. I'm going to use pro bowls and all-pro as the next comparison, with all-pro counting more heavily than pro-bowls.

McNabb 5 PB, 0 AP
Jurgensen 5 PB, 2 AP
Kelly 5 PB, 1 AP

It appears that Kelly is the closest QB for comparison to McNabb. Both were QBs on teams that had long runs of success, without ever winning the whole enchilada. The Bills were more successful than the McNabb Eagles, but the Bills had a better surrounding cast. If McNabb were to retire now I don't think he would be deserving.

To show how weak McNabbs case is, lets say that McNabb plays a few more solid years and reaches 44K yards passing without winning a SB. The case would be stronger. But then do you put Drew Bledsoe in, who would have similar numbers? I never thought I was watching a HOFer when I was watching Drew Bledsoe, and that is the way I feel about McNabb.

Finally consider that McNabb is 33. Here are the other top QBs at his age: Peyton Manning (33) and Tom Brady (32). Drew Brees is 30. What will his accomplishments look like 3 years from now?

You put way too much work into this post.
:)
Posted via Mobile Device

milkman
06-06-2010, 08:52 AM
You put way too much work into this post.
:)
Posted via Mobile Device

That's a cdcox trait.

Saul Good
06-06-2010, 09:16 AM
McNabb's always been about the 5th-8th best QB in the NFL. That isn't HOF worthy on it's own. Kelly was similar, but he went to 4 Superbowls. Even he is only barely HOF worthy. I don't think he should sniff the HOF.

I'll probably catch flak for this, but he may get votes for being the best black QB of his era.

KurtCobain
06-06-2010, 09:18 AM
I'll probably catch flak for this, but he may get votes for being the best black QB of his era.

He'll definately get votes for that.

Saul Good
06-06-2010, 09:27 AM
I would be interested to see how people rank the top 5 black QBs of all time. Off the top of my head:

1. Warren Moon
2. Donovan McNabb
3. Randall Cunningham
4. Doug Williams
5. Michael Vick

1 and 2 are pretty easy. After that, it gets tougher.

KurtCobain
06-06-2010, 09:29 AM
I would be interested to see how people rank the top 5 black QBs of all time. Off the top of my head:

1. Warren Moon
2. Donovan McNabb
3. Randall Cunningham
4. Doug Williams
5. Michael Vick

1 and 2 are pretty easy. After that, it gets tougher.


Really, Vick? There's gotta be somebody ahead of him... Casey Printers?

milkman
06-06-2010, 09:32 AM
Really, Vick? There's gotta be somebody ahead of him... Casey Printers?

James Harris.

Saul Good
06-06-2010, 09:34 AM
Really, Vick? There's gotta be somebody ahead of him... Casey Printers?

Vick was an over-rated QB who is going to wind up becoming under-rated.

milkman
06-06-2010, 10:19 AM
Vick was an over-rated QB who is going to wind up becoming under-rated.

How so?

He was a great athlete and a mediocre QB.

Last year, he didn't look so great athletically, and we don't know if he has evolved as a QB.

Saul Good
06-06-2010, 10:31 AM
How so?

He was a great athlete and a mediocre QB.

Last year, he didn't look so great athletically, and we don't know if he has evolved as a QB.

He made the NFC Championship game (or at least won one playoff game, I don't remember). He was about the tenth best QB in the league for a few years. At first, he was over-rated. Now, people act like he was terrible. He wasn't terrible. He was a good QB.

milkman
06-06-2010, 10:34 AM
He made the NFC Championship game (or at least won one playoff game, I don't remember). He was about the tenth best QB in the league for a few years. At first, he was over-rated. Now, people act like he was terrible. He wasn't terrible. He was a good QB.

Vick made some outstanding plays as an athlete to get them there in a weak conference.

When he came up against an outstanding defense that minimied his impact athletically, he was ineffective as a QB.

He was overrated becuase of that ahletic ability.

He will never be underrated as a QB, because he sucked ass as one.

Deberg_1990
06-06-2010, 10:45 AM
McNabb is confounding to me? I like him overall, but hes always been one of those guys who seems to do just enough to lose the big game.

Gonzo
06-06-2010, 10:56 AM
I would be interested to see how people rank the top 5 black QBs of all time. Off the top of my head:

1. Warren Moon
2. Donovan McNabb
3. Randall Cunningham
4. Doug Williams
5. Michael Vick

1 and 2 are pretty easy. After that, it gets tougher.
I'd definitely put Steve McNair ahead of Vick and maybe ahead of Williams.
Posted via Mobile Device

milkman
06-06-2010, 10:59 AM
I'd definitely put Steve McNair ahead of Vick and maybe ahead of Williams.
Posted via Mobile Device

I'd probably put McNair ahead of McNabb.

Saul Good
06-06-2010, 11:02 AM
I'd definitely put Steve McNair ahead of Vick and maybe ahead of Williams.
Posted via Mobile Device

Totally forgot about McNair. He should be number 3 at worst.

Gonzo
06-06-2010, 11:05 AM
Totally forgot about McNair. He should be number 3 at worst.
I figured that was the case. That dude had his moments for damn sure. Extremely talented.
Posted via Mobile Device

RedNeckRaider
06-06-2010, 11:56 AM
He is a very solid QB but not a HOF player IMO Heck there are two former Raider QBs that did not make the cut I would put ahead of him~

RippedmyFlesh
06-06-2010, 12:26 PM
Alot of people rip on mcnabb but he transitioned from a running occasional throw the bomb qb in college to a solid nfl qb.
He played the spread option in college and did well in the nfl defying the rule of non-pro type offense in college means they can't run a pro style offense.

Param
06-06-2010, 12:28 PM
I think if McNabb plays at least another 4 seasons and gets to another SB, he's a lock to get in. I think Shanahan will do well with McNabb and a great pickup for the Skins.

RippedmyFlesh
06-06-2010, 12:29 PM
The best receiver he ever played with was in college marvin harrison.

Param
06-06-2010, 12:34 PM
The best receiver he ever played with was in college marvin harrison.

TO wasn't bad either. I do wonder all these years why Reid never surrounded Donovan with elite WR's.

ALSO: TO done with the NFL? He's still a FA.

The Bad Guy
06-06-2010, 12:36 PM
I don't think he's a HOF QB.

KCChiefsMan
06-06-2010, 12:42 PM
McNabb's always been about the 5th-8th best QB in the NFL. That isn't HOF worthy on it's own. Kelly was similar, but he went to 4 Superbowls. Even he is only barely HOF worthy. I don't think he should sniff the HOF.

I'll probably catch flak for this, but he may get votes for being the best black QB of his era.

no, Kelly was always one of the best QBs in the league during the regular season and the playoffs. Their offense was always unstoppable, he just sucked ass in the Superbowl and the kicker robbed him out of a ring.

Saul Good
06-06-2010, 01:15 PM
no, Kelly was always one of the best QBs in the league during the regular season and the playoffs. Their offense was always unstoppable, he just sucked ass in the Superbowl and the kicker robbed him out of a ring.

Kelly wasn't Elway, Montana, Favre, or Marino. He was in the group with Young, Aikman, Moon, Simms, etc. That puts him somewhere in the 5-8 range.

milkman
06-06-2010, 03:26 PM
He is a very solid QB but not a HOF player IMO Heck there are two former Raider QBs that did not make the cut I would put ahead of him~


Kenny Stabler and who?

cdcox
06-06-2010, 03:27 PM
Kenny Stabler and who?

I assumed Plunkett. I don't agree.

milkman
06-06-2010, 03:41 PM
I assumed Plunkett. I don't agree.

I was ready to make that assumption, but couldn't.
Daryl Lamonica had a better overall career in Oakland than did Jim Punkett as a Raider.

Neither are HoF.