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R8RFAN
06-07-2010, 08:44 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izzlN2zC8PU&feature=player_embedded

Radar Chief
06-07-2010, 09:20 AM
LMAO So true. Good one. :thumb:

MOhillbilly
06-07-2010, 10:14 AM
i dont know why people buy a harley anymore other than the name.

Brock
06-07-2010, 10:34 AM
Motorcycles are completely generic these days. It's either a V twin cruiser or a touring bike or a buzzbomb. Brand is irrelevant.

jidar
06-07-2010, 10:49 AM
Hahaha.

Yeah

A friend of mine told me when he was in school to get his MBA that his marketing class spent time studying Harley Davidson. He said the reason was because they are one of the best examples in the world of a company succeeding almost entirely on branding. Apparently Harley products are demonstrably worse than their competitors in nearly every way but their customers are just loyal regardless.

Radar Chief
06-07-2010, 10:53 AM
Hahaha.

Yeah

A friend of mine told me when he was in school to get his MBA that his marketing class spent time studying Harley Davidson. He said the reason was because they are one of the best examples in the world of a company succeeding almost entirely on branding. Apparently Harley products are demonstrably worse than their competitors in nearly every way but their customers are just loyal regardless.

Yes, it’s called “Harley Mystique”.
When all the other manufacturers were spending profits on research and development to improve their product Harley spent theirs on lawyers trying to patent the sound that a single pin crank v-twin makes and on marketing “Harley Mystique”.
“Harley Mystique” = “There’s something intangible about riding a Harley other bikes don’t have.” In other words “Harley Mystique” = 50 year old crap that didn’t work all that well back when it was new.

Psyko Tek
06-07-2010, 11:04 AM
loved it

I know ways too many "chicks" ( I use the word loosely)
that think the coolest thing is to be on the back of a harley
they couldn't drive a bike to save their fat asses but they are the best bike

one even bought her dirt bag 3 of them so she could ride on back
he sold them for meth money

L.A. Chieffan
06-07-2010, 11:13 AM
Hmmm, I know Harleys aren't the pinnacle of new technology but I always wanted one to cruise up canyons and PCH, shit like that. Im still getting one.

Lzen
06-07-2010, 11:33 AM
ROFL

MOhillbilly
06-07-2010, 11:36 AM
Motorcycles are completely generic these days. It's either a V twin cruiser or a touring bike or a buzzbomb. Brand is irrelevant.

52 Vincent blacklight lightning.

but ya whole lotta shit i seen in the 70s-80s are still on the road today.

chiefsnorth
06-07-2010, 11:42 AM
Motorcycles are completely generic these days. It's either a V twin cruiser or a touring bike or a buzzbomb. Brand is irrelevant.

Harley = Bud Light.

But there actually are many innovative bikes out there today from a lot of makes. I really disagree. You just have to look beyond the makes most people can name.

Triumph is back in a big way. BMW makes many unique and functional bikes. Ducati is producing exciting stuff.

Sportbikes are better than ever. BMW set the class on its ear with a new offering in the 1000cc space. Supermotos, streetfighters... there are genre bending options out there.

The sport is more alive than ever, the genericism is only in the Bud Light philosphy of the cruiser market.
Posted via Mobile Device

dilligaf
06-07-2010, 12:23 PM
I've had several Harleys and still have my Electra Glide, and I think that is funny as hell. I laugh at the people who have never been on a bike in their lives that go out and buy a Harley, then have to spend all this money to purchase their uniform to wear.

Brock
06-07-2010, 12:31 PM
Harley = Bud Light.

But there actually are many innovative bikes out there today from a lot of makes. I really disagree. You just have to look beyond the makes most people can name.

Triumph is back in a big way. BMW makes many unique and functional bikes. Ducati is producing exciting stuff.

Sportbikes are better than ever. BMW set the class on its ear with a new offering in the 1000cc space. Supermotos, streetfighters... there are genre bending options out there.

The sport is more alive than ever, the genericism is only in the Bud Light philosphy of the cruiser market.
Posted via Mobile Device


I'm not saying there isn't a lot of good stuff being built. I'm saying there isn't a whole lot of difference between brands anymore.

chiefsnorth
06-07-2010, 12:43 PM
I'm not saying there isn't a lot of good stuff being built. I'm saying there isn't a whole lot of difference between brands anymore.

Oh, yes I see. The cruisers and the race bike markets are at the point where you can't distinguish between the same bike from different makes in any meaningful way. The only edge out the is the false perception that HD is just better in some nebulous way.

And they compete on price more than they used to, but it comes back in the price of parts and service.
Posted via Mobile Device

Fish
06-07-2010, 12:50 PM
Every time I see the stereotypical middle-aged Harley rider who's actually a total yuppie in real life, I think of the South Park episode and imagine them grumbling and mumbling everything they say in an effort to be heard and noticed...

Pants
06-07-2010, 12:58 PM
Every time I see the stereotypical middle-aged Harley rider who's actually a total yuppie in real life, I think of the South Park episode and imagine them grumbling and mumbling everything they say in an effort to be heard and noticed...

"The F Word" was a great episode. LMAO

Demonpenz
06-07-2010, 12:59 PM
a product is only as good as it makes you feel

Count Alex's Losses
06-07-2010, 01:09 PM
Someone should open a Harley-Davidson/Ed Hardy combo outlet and rake in millions.

Brock
06-07-2010, 01:18 PM
Ed Hardy guys are more likely to be riding a Hayabusa while accessorized with Oakleys, shorts, and flip flops.

Saccopoo
06-07-2010, 01:19 PM
Hahaha.

Yeah

A friend of mine told me when he was in school to get his MBA that his marketing class spent time studying Harley Davidson. He said the reason was because they are one of the best examples in the world of a company succeeding almost entirely on branding. Apparently Harley products are demonstrably worse than their competitors in nearly every way but their customers are just loyal regardless.

cough*NASCAR*cough

Count Alex's Losses
06-07-2010, 01:20 PM
woooooooooo

http://i.imgur.com/YeEFd.jpg (https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/1174)

Saccopoo
06-07-2010, 01:25 PM
woooooooooo

http://i.imgur.com/YeEFd.jpg (https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/1174)

See? Ed Hardy just isn't for girls in midwestern states coat tailing a rapidly dying apparel fad - chubby old vatos dig it too!

Saccopoo
06-07-2010, 01:28 PM
Although, when I think about it, Ed Hardy might be just a bit cooler than this:

http://www.shirts4squirts.com/ProductImages/jf2/chewytea.jpg

Pablo
06-07-2010, 01:35 PM
My uncle just got a Harley a week ago or so. He was pretty stoked and I feigned interest and told him how "bad-ass" the bike was, even though I could genuinely give a shit about motorcycles in general; much less the HD brand.

He's like a kid again, so if it makes him happy, whatever.

Count Alex's Losses
06-07-2010, 01:40 PM
Although, when I think about it, Ed Hardy might be just a bit cooler than this:

http://www.shirts4squirts.com/ProductImages/jf2/chewytea.jpg

They're both stupid.

Saccopoo
06-07-2010, 01:43 PM
They're both stupid.

Fine.

Even worse than Chewie or Ed:

http://teenormous.com/images/t-shirts/www.80stees.com/images-products-Star_Trek_Enterprise_Logo-T.jpg

Dayze
06-07-2010, 01:52 PM
I like Harleys; they do 'look and sound' awesome, no doubt. But, at what premium? you could get the same model/style/design on a metric bike for $7-10k less.

and Metric bikes are far from inferior; most metrics have better brakes, power, and handling. Over the last 10-15 years Harley reliability has improved quite a bit; but still behind the Japanese bikes IMO; ....not to mention that Japanese bikes have had the great reliability for decades.

It's too bad there's this 'biggger dick theory' in place among Harley guys; where if you don't ride a Harley, you're not sh*t etc.

I'll take a used Nomad w 3k miles for $8k over a street glide at 16k (not sure how much they really are, but just a guess).

Brock
06-07-2010, 01:56 PM
It's too bad there's this 'biggger dick theory' in place among Harley guys; where if you don't ride a Harley, you're not sh*t etc.


Well, nobody likes those guys anyway.

Dayze
06-07-2010, 02:01 PM
Well, nobody likes those guys anyway.

this is true.

Count Alex's Losses
06-07-2010, 02:02 PM
Fine.

Even worse than Chewie or Ed:

http://teenormous.com/images/t-shirts/www.80stees.com/images-products-Star_Trek_Enterprise_Logo-T.jpg

They're all shitty.

MOhillbilly
06-07-2010, 02:05 PM
you can go aftermarket and get a new harley type bike for 10+k less.

chiefsnorth
06-07-2010, 03:09 PM
I like Harleys; they do 'look and sound' awesome, no doubt. But, at what premium? you could get the same model/style/design on a metric bike for $7-10k less.

and Metric bikes are far from inferior; most metrics have better brakes, power, and handling. Over the last 10-15 years Harley reliability has improved quite a bit; but still behind the Japanese bikes IMO; ....not to mention that Japanese bikes have had the great reliability for decades.

It's too bad there's this 'biggger dick theory' in place among Harley guys; where if you don't ride a Harley, you're not sh*t etc.

I'll take a used Nomad w 3k miles for $8k over a street glide at 16k (not sure how much they really are, but just a guess).

The price isnt as different as it used to be. The Japanese makes have come up to near what HD charges because their product is just as good or better. Why undercut them by $2000 when you can cut them by $1000 and make $1000 more per bike?

And HD pricing is deceptive, because a lot of profit is hidden in the true cost to own not the MSRP.
Posted via Mobile Device

Saccopoo
06-07-2010, 03:21 PM
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/gallery/confederate-motorcycle-p120-figther/confederate-motorcycles-p120-fighter-4.jpg

Saccopoo
06-07-2010, 03:26 PM
Personally, if I'm spending around $15k on a bike, I'm getting something that has a little bit of "get your money's worth" in it.

http://powersports.vanwall.com/images/brands/bmw/bmw10-r1200r.jpg

Radar Chief
06-07-2010, 03:34 PM
No, no. Nobody is intimidated, actually.
Everybody realizes that people that are so needy for attention they need to dress up and be as loud as possible are you guys and 16-year-old girls. ROFL

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thawk
06-07-2010, 05:19 PM
Bought a Honda VTX 1800 in 06 brand new. Great bike lots of power. Tires wore bad, brake rottors junk other than that good bike. Road it 10k miles in 2 years. Bought a Road King Classic in 07 and have put 20k on it and all I have done is bought new tires. Better fuel millage than the VTX by far. Classier bike better sound and ride (air ride) less power than the VTX but that is the only place it fall a little short. Ride the Harley way more and enjoy it more.

Dayze
06-07-2010, 08:24 PM
The price isnt as different as it used to be. The Japanese makes have come up to near what HD charges because their product is just as good or better. Why undercut them by $2000 when you can cut them by $1000 and make $1000 more per bike?

And HD pricing is deceptive, because a lot of profit is hidden in the true cost to own not the MSRP.
Posted via Mobile Device

yeah, I've noticed in the last 5 years (estimate) the metrics creeping upwards a bit.


you make a damn good point about the hidden costs of HD. Maintenance (for those reading the thread who have never owned a motorcyles) is of huge importance on bikes. Shop time is about $60-80/hr + parts (not sure about HD shop rates).

Even moreso than maintenance on cars, if bike maintenace when done on schedule etc, the bikes will last forever (metric, HD, spotbike, cruiser etc).

...and don't even get me started on Ducati maint :cuss:. I'm 90% sure my next bike will be a Ducati Monster, with the caveat that i'll be doing my own maint (timing belts, valve adjustments etc). Considering the maintenance intervals of 7500 miles, and dealer costs around $500+ (even more for the 4v testestretta motors). I'll opt for the 2v Ducs and do my own to keep costs down a bit.

Dayze
06-07-2010, 08:25 PM
Personally, if I'm spending around $15k on a bike, I'm getting something that has a little bit of "get your money's worth" in it.

http://powersports.vanwall.com/images/brands/bmw/bmw10-r1200r.jpg

great choice.
any of the BMW tourers or sport tourers would be an awesome choice.
I rode a Kawi Concours a few weeks back. wow. great bike.
VFRs are also an awesome bang for your buck/ do-it-all bike

Dayze
06-07-2010, 08:32 PM
Bought a Honda VTX 1800 in 06 brand new. Great bike lots of power. Tires wore bad, brake rottors junk other than that good bike. Road it 10k miles in 2 years. Bought a Road King Classic in 07 and have put 20k on it and all I have done is bought new tires. Better fuel millage than the VTX by far. Classier bike better sound and ride (air ride) less power than the VTX but that is the only place it fall a little short. Ride the Harley way more and enjoy it more.

good take.

2bikemike
06-07-2010, 11:01 PM
Since I have owned and ridden bikes most of my life I will throw in my $.02.

I have owned Harleys for the last 15 years. Prior to that I owned bikes from Japan. I ride more than most. Every bike I owned was sold with high miles. I have had more problems with the Jap bikes than I ever had with my Harleys. I currently own an 07 Ultra Classic with 50k miles on it.

Can you buy a bike with better technology than a Harley? Of course you can. The thing about Harleys is they are very simple old school technology. Extremely easy to take care of.

But IMHO most of the other bikes in the cruiser market are either copying Harley or they just lack personality.

If I wanted something to go carve through the canyons I wouldn't choose to do it on a Harley. I would choose a Hyabusa or similar.

chiefsnorth
06-08-2010, 11:01 AM
I would want something more nimble than a "bus" for canyons :-) They do seem to be the douchebike of choice but they can be made into credible sport tourers I am told.
Posted via Mobile Device

Radar Chief
06-08-2010, 11:10 AM
But IMHO most of the other bikes in the cruiser market are either copying Harley or they just lack personality.

This is true, no one should waste their breath denying it. Metric cruisers are Harley look-a-likes. That’s because its what the cruiser market demands.

seclark
06-08-2010, 11:13 AM
f@ck all you guys.
sec

MOhillbilly
06-08-2010, 11:17 AM
f@ck all you guys.
sec

why you gotta be so mean?

seclark
06-08-2010, 11:18 AM
why you gotta be so mean?

:D

Dayze
06-08-2010, 11:39 AM
The Harley debate, as it relates to cost etc, is a similar one I have quite often with other sprotbike riders about Ducati motorcycles.

I’ve always lusted after a Ducati. They are similar to HD from the standpoint of initial cost and cost of ownership; to most, they are a bit over priced compared to what you can get from other brands. But….it’s a Ducati.

You can get other sportbikes for much less (particularly when dealing with new bikes); the maintenance (if not done on your own) on Ducati’s will eat you alive. Maintenance intervals are frequent compared to the Japanese counterparts (7500 miles on ’06 and new models), they use a completely different valve actuation ( rocker arms to open AND close valves, hence the maint. frequency) that require inspections/adjustments for optimum performance, and belt driven timing instead of chain driven. You can get a comparable V-twin (SV650/Gladius, Shiver, even Kawi 650r) for a good deal less $$, and maintenance intervals 2 and 3 times longer than a Duc. ….not to mention cost of parts from Italy and the availability of the parts. Thankfully, we have a Ducati dealer in our backyard in Letko in Shawnee.

Basically, if you like Harleys and can afford them go for it. Nothing wrong with it. If you can’t, you have metric options that are arguably (I say ‘yes’) as good as a Harley if you’re a casual rider/new rider/weekend rider etc. Comes down to ‘want’, and how deep your pockets are. For me, I’m really going to try to hold off on getting a different bike, and saving some $ and getting the bike that I ‘want’ – Ducati. Worth the premium. I would imagine most Harley riders are the same way in that it’s worth it to them to pay a little more.

Granted, there are a lot of D-bags on Harleys…but there are a lot of D-bags trolling around on ‘Busas, and other liter machines as well. I can’t tell you how many pseudo-group rides I’ve peeled off from because it was simply to nutty around town. Don’t get me wrong, I wind ‘er up quite a bit, but it’s usually an hour outside of town on remote alphabet hwys, but I’ve ridden with guys who think 635 and urban curves are their own personal race track. Not good.

Though I’ve found there are a lot more HD guys who hate sportbikes and other brands of cruisers, than the other way around. Doesn’t bother me all that much if they have a hang up; I ride for my enjoyment and not to pose/be seen etc.


http://image.motorcyclistonline.com/f/33110403+w750+st0/122_1004_02_o+ducati_monster_796+right_side_view.jpg

Radar Chief
06-08-2010, 12:16 PM
Not bad Dayze, I can agree with that.
There are d-bags all around, but the majority of them that sneer at me for the type of bike I ride are Hardley riders. Of course that's at least partially due to the type of bike I'm on. If I was on a cruiser I'd probably be getting sneered at by more 'Busa riders.

Dayze
06-08-2010, 12:24 PM
although, don't get me started on HD's decision to end their partnership with Buell.:cuss:..

maybe sales weren't enough for HD corporate...but man, those bikes are FUN. I only have the privelege of riding an XB9 for about 1/2 hour, but I popped off my helmet with a huge :D

hopefully we'll see Mr. Buell's ideas/innovations again soon.

chiefsnorth
06-08-2010, 12:26 PM
The metric makers have to appeal to the average person when designing bikes, and the average person is not that smart.

Dayze, the dayze of the 6,000 mile valve clearance checks are over for the Duc. They are making better bikes than ever and addressing the cost of ownership issues.

Was actually near buying an 848 last year but life intervened briefly.
Posted via Mobile Device

Saccopoo
06-08-2010, 12:32 PM
I’ve always lusted after a Ducati. They are similar to HD from the standpoint of initial cost and cost of ownership; to most, they are a bit over priced compared to what you can get from other brands. But….it’s a Ducati.

You need to step it up your lust list a notch Dayze:

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/Confederate-B120-Wraith.jpg

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/DSC_0003.jpg

http://joshinthecity.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/confederate-limited-edition.jpg

Dayze
06-08-2010, 12:52 PM
:eek:
sweet.

i should've stated 'my realistic lust' lol


that 2nd pic is awesome.

Saccopoo
06-08-2010, 01:10 PM
:eek:
sweet.

i should've stated 'my realistic lust' lol


that 2nd pic is awesome.

Yeah, the Hellcat is pretty nice, though I wouldn't mind the Wraith or Fighter.

Confederate is about as ultimate as it gets in motoring. I thought that their Wildcat from about ten years ago was amazing, and they've just stepped it up since then. The Wildcat looks really tame and ordinary compared to their current lineup.

http://www.confederate.com/cm4/index.php

Dayze
06-08-2010, 01:20 PM
The metric makers have to appeal to the average person when designing bikes, and the average person is not that smart.

Dayze, the dayze of the 6,000 mile valve clearance checks are over for the Duc. They are making better bikes than ever and addressing the cost of ownership issues.

Was actually near buying an 848 last year but life intervened briefly.
Posted via Mobile Device

yeah, I think DNA increased the maint from 6k to 7.5K in 2006. I remember reading about the increased maintenance intervals and getting pretty excited, only to find out the ‘increase’ was that bump from 6k to 7500. / 12k to 15k.
At 7.5k you'd be looking at a valve check/adjust and the other normal non-major (not sure if major is the right word..), and at 13k belts/valve check/adjust. Most say if the valves are within spec the valve check it’s a cheaper service, but only somewhat. If they need to be adjusted and shims need to be ordered, I think shims are around $30 (I think)….so, if you needed all valves adjusted on a 4v (848) it could add a bit of cost to the job. Certainly, on a 2v the cost is less even if all 4 needed to be replaced.

I've heard that if the valves are in spec (particularly the closing rocker/shim) at 7.5k, they usually stay within the .004 closer spec for years unless you're running up to reline/racing etc. I know a few guy that have track 996's and the only thing they do is change the oil and belts; valves are almost always within spec (which supports your comment on imporoved mainteance/reliability etc)

I decided to stick with the 2v motors since I'll be doing the stuff myself. The 4v (748/749/916/999/1098/S4R/Streetfighter etc) testestretta motors are bit more involved for a home mechanic. Not so much from valve adjustments (same as 2v...just more of them) standpoint, but from the timing belts. The 2v motors you can get away with tensioning them by feel/sliding a 5mm allen between the belt /pulley to determining a 'rough' tension. But I hear the 4v timing belts require some machine that reads the frequency of vibration to determine proper tension on vertical and horizontal cylinders etc. I've heard of home mechanics using guitar tuners/laptops with microphones etc to get the tension close, but I'm not sure I'd trust myself doing that. Particularly if it’s a $20k bike.

..and honestly, depending on the miles you put on the motors, the 2v adjustments/checks/belts at the dealer isn't all 'that' bad if you went that route. If you had to do it every other season, the cost would be minimal if you planned for it along the way. But if you put a ton of miles on the bike each year you'd better have the $ at your disposal for the dealer to do it, or learn to do it yourself. I think a 2v check/adjust is around $400?(rough guess); and a 4v is around $600-800. Ouch. Then again, if you're putting a ton of miles on the bike each year, $ shouldn't be a problem as you're likely be burning through $300-400 set of Pirelli's/Michelin PP each year!

If you still are in the market for an 848 / whenever you’re in the market for one again, keep an eye out for used ones. There are a ton that are for sale with like 6k miles or so. People buy them new with no understanding of the maintenance required and when it comes to the first service and they see the cost of the dealer performing the maintenance, they’re like “WTF”…and sell the bike. Same goes for used ones approaching the 15k service. Buying used Ducs though, it’s imperative to have a documented maintenance record – particularly for the timing belts. If no maintenance record is available, the best thing to do is to allocate $ in your bike buying budget and just replace them after you buy it.

Overall, the ‘maintenance’ voodoo associated with Ducati’s isn’t that bad. Little more often, and a little more $, but nothing to the degree where you shouldn’t buy one because of it. A lot of people immediately cite the maintenance involved as a reason they didn’t buy one, but when you ask them about the specifics, they don’t even know what’s involved. So they passed up a bike they loved because of a slight misconception.

Go get that 848!!

Saccopoo
06-08-2010, 01:22 PM
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Dayze
06-08-2010, 01:31 PM
how much do those Confederate's run, Sac?
...or do I 'want' to know?

chiefsnorth
06-08-2010, 01:59 PM
Well, you sort of described my process. When I dug deeper on the what and how much of the service, I backed off a bit.

There is a fantastic group of guys locally who used to run a custom shop and now opened an actual dealership, and I wouldnt mind giving them my biz because they have been kind in the past to me.

In the end I kept on my current scoot but maybe on day I will grab it.
Posted via Mobile Device

Dayze
06-08-2010, 02:20 PM
Well, you sort of described my process. When I dug deeper on the what and how much of the service, I backed off a bit.

There is a fantastic group of guys locally who used to run a custom shop and now opened an actual dealership, and I wouldnt mind giving them my biz because they have been kind in the past to me.

In the end I kept on my current scoot but maybe on day I will grab it.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yeah; for years I’ve wanted a Duc, but I was scared of the service. But, my fear was really without doing any investigating. Mainly I came to that conclusion because of my riding buddies always making comments like “sure, if you want to work on your bike every weekend, buy a Ducati”, and “if you want to spend $600 every 3k miles, get a Duc”. Unfortunately I’ve passed on getting a Ducati twice now. But not anymore. I’ve been trying to sell my CBR and I’m looking to pick up a used Duc. The wife is all too familiar with my Ducati infatuation, and she’s well aware of the costs to get stuff done at the dealer. So the deal between she and I is, I can get a Duc if I do my own maintenance.

Granted, I’ve never done a valve adjust/inspection or timing belt replacement, but I’ve read up on the process for a year or so and I’m fully confident it’s something I can do on a weekend (assuming I don’t need parts etc) with just a few basic tools, and a calculator and some patience. I’ll be taking the plunge (hopefully sooner than later) at some point.

Also depends on how your ride; not sure if you’re a sportbike guy, cruiser guy etc, …but me personally I’m pretty much done with super sports/full-fairing sport bikes on the street. Too uncomfortable, cop magnets, and whenever tapping into usable torque/HP, I’m probably breaking 10 laws. I’m moving to twins. I might be sacrificing HP, but I’d rather have a good chunk of torque to romp around town/through twisties. And, most twins out there currently are more of a standard riding position/slightly forward I can ride all day.


Although, when I see a used 749 with 8k miles for $6500…..I start to reconsider. Lol.

I did ride an Aprilia Tuono about a month ago courtesy of a local dealer…wow…that thing was awesome. I could get into trouble with that thing.:evil:

2bikemike
06-08-2010, 04:21 PM
Yeah; for years I’ve wanted a Duc, but I was scared of the service. But, my fear was really without doing any investigating. Mainly I came to that conclusion because of my riding buddies always making comments like “sure, if you want to work on your bike every weekend, buy a Ducati”, and “if you want to spend $600 every 3k miles, get a Duc”. Unfortunately I’ve passed on getting a Ducati twice now. But not anymore. I’ve been trying to sell my CBR and I’m looking to pick up a used Duc. The wife is all too familiar with my Ducati infatuation, and she’s well aware of the costs to get stuff done at the dealer. So the deal between she and I is, I can get a Duc if I do my own maintenance.

Granted, I’ve never done a valve adjust/inspection or timing belt replacement, but I’ve read up on the process for a year or so and I’m fully confident it’s something I can do on a weekend (assuming I don’t need parts etc) with just a few basic tools, and a calculator and some patience. I’ll be taking the plunge (hopefully sooner than later) at some point.

Also depends on how your ride; not sure if you’re a sportbike guy, cruiser guy etc, …but me personally I’m pretty much done with super sports/full-fairing sport bikes on the street. Too uncomfortable, cop magnets, and whenever tapping into usable torque/HP, I’m probably breaking 10 laws. I’m moving to twins. I might be sacrificing HP, but I’d rather have a good chunk of torque to romp around town/through twisties. And, most twins out there currently are more of a standard riding position/slightly forward I can ride all day.


Although, when I see a used 749 with 8k miles for $6500…..I start to reconsider. Lol.

I did ride an Aprilia Tuono about a month ago courtesy of a local dealer…wow…that thing was awesome. I could get into trouble with that thing.:evil:

I bet you could get a service manual for the Ducati model of your choice. It would greatly eliminate the mystique of most maintenance items.

I alway get the service manual for the bike I am buying. I refuse to let some knuckle head from any dealership work on my bike unless I am traveling across country and then its just not practical to try and work on yourself.

I have some horror stories of shop mechanics that I wouldn't let work on my mountain bike.

jspchief
06-08-2010, 04:28 PM
Every time I see the stereotypical middle-aged Harley rider who's actually a total yuppie in real life, I think of the South Park episode and imagine them grumbling and mumbling everything they say in an effort to be heard and noticed...I just saw that a week or two ago. I could not stop laughing.

Fish
06-08-2010, 04:43 PM
I just saw that a week or two ago. I could not stop laughing.

Yeah, I don't watch much of that show, but that episode was hilarious...

Grrrummblumblubmlbum...

Dayze
06-09-2010, 08:52 AM
I bet you could get a service manual for the Ducati model of your choice. It would greatly eliminate the mystique of most maintenance items.

I alway get the service manual for the bike I am buying. I refuse to let some knuckle head from any dealership work on my bike unless I am traveling across country and then its just not practical to try and work on yourself.

I have some horror stories of shop mechanics that I wouldn't let work on my mountain bike.

Yeah, definitely. Which ever year Ducati I end up getting (whenever that will be) I’m picking up a Haynes manual.
And I”ll be picking up a DVD detailing the adjustment procedure from proItalia
http://store.proitalia.com/vid1.html

chiefsnorth
06-09-2010, 09:16 AM
I did ride an Aprilia Tuono about a month ago courtesy of a local dealer…wow…that thing was awesome. I could get into trouble with that thing.:evil:

I have a speed triple right now so I know what you mean. Mountains of torque, it will pull well into 3 digits, but still very rideable as performance bikes go. Really streetfighters are perfect for most people on I-4s today but they don't quite realize it.

thawk
06-09-2010, 09:44 AM
It is like the saying goe's (if I have to explain why I ride a Harley, you wouldnt understand ) It is all nostalgia and class. Also dont knock the Harley guys for looking down on people who ride jap bikes because that is not true anymore, except in a few isolated groups. That is just a steriotype wich we all know in this day and age is wrong to do to people!!! Most of us could care less what you ride if you are a good guy and use common sense when rideing with us. If you get on a croch rocket and act like a dumb ass we will probably call you out. If you enjoy rideing a croch rocket and dont act stupid I will ride anyplace you want to go.

Dayze
06-09-2010, 09:51 AM
It is like the saying goe's (if I have to explain why I ride a Harley, you wouldnt understand ) It is all nostalgia and class. Also dont knock the Harley guys for looking down on people who ride jap bikes because that is not true anymore, except in a few isolated groups. That is just a steriotype wich we all know in this day and age is wrong to do to people!!! Most of us could care less what you ride if you are a good guy and use common sense when rideing with us. If you get on a croch rocket and act like a dumb ass we will probably call you out. If you enjoy rideing a croch rocket and dont act stupid I will ride anyplace you want to go.

:thumb:

Dayze
06-09-2010, 09:53 AM
I have a speed triple right now so I know what you mean. Mountains of torque, it will pull well into 3 digits, but still very rideable as performance bikes go. Really streetfighters are perfect for most people on I-4s today but they don't quite realize it.

:clap:

love the way those triples sound.

*thread has been unintentionally hijacked*

..apologies.

Saccopoo
06-09-2010, 09:56 AM
how much do those Confederate's run, Sac?
...or do I 'want' to know?

$100,000.00, give or take a few grand.

Radar Chief
06-09-2010, 09:58 AM
I did ride an Aprilia Tuono about a month ago courtesy of a local dealer…wow…that thing was awesome. I could get into trouble with that thing.:evil:

Cool. Is that the one they’ve taken superbike racing? I don’t follow Aprilia much but Mad Max has been whooping ass on the World Superbike scene with his Aprilia.

chiefsnorth
06-09-2010, 10:01 AM
Biaggi is running the RSV4 I think... the Tuono is a streetfighter that shares some commonality with it.
Posted via Mobile Device

Rain Man
06-09-2010, 10:13 AM
No, no. Nobody is intimidated, actually.
Everybody realizes that people that are so needy for attention they need to dress up and be as loud as possible are you guys and 16-year-old girls. ROFL


I'm not a huge fan of South Park, but that's hilarious. And it has social value if it'll make people with loud motorcycles stop annoying people.

Dayze
06-09-2010, 10:27 AM
Cool. Is that the one they’ve taken superbike racing? I don’t follow Aprilia much but Mad Max has been whooping ass on the World Superbike scene with his Aprilia.

the Tuono is basically the RSV (but not the RSV4...that thing is wiked) with out the full fairing, and it has what feel like 'dirt bike' bars instead of the standard clip ons.

...was a hoot to ride man, i was literally grinning like an idiot in my helmet.

Dayze
06-09-2010, 10:29 AM
$100,000.00, give or take a few grand.

:eek:

lol @ "...give or take a few grand"

looks like the entire frame is milled out from a solid chunk of aluminum.

Saccopoo
06-09-2010, 10:30 AM
the Tuono is basically the RSV (but not the RSV4...that thing is wiked) with out the full fairing, and it has what feel like 'dirt bike' bars instead of the standard clip ons.

...was a hoot to ride man, i was literally grinning like an idiot in my helmet.

It doesn't look so badass to me...

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/images/Aprilia-SXV-Explorer.jpg

Saccopoo
06-09-2010, 10:36 AM
Hey, while we are on the subject of Harleys, has anyone around here had any experience with the Victory line of machines? I get the bike bug about this time every year, and have looked at their bikes over the past five years or so, like what they do from a design standpoint, but haven't put any time on one.

I do like their new CORE concept bike. They seem to be pulling a lot of ideas off the Confederate Hellcat bike:

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/Victory-Motorcycles-CORE.jpg

thawk
06-09-2010, 12:02 PM
Are loud motorcycles scaring you or are you one of the people who pull out in front of us so and say you did not see us. That is why we make alot of noise because some people dont look as much as they should so let them hear us. Sorry that bothers you.

Fish
06-09-2010, 12:44 PM
Are loud motorcycles scaring you or are you one of the people who pull out in front of us so and say you did not see us. That is why we make alot of noise because some people dont look as much as they should so let them hear us. Sorry that bothers you.

The excess noise is for your safety huh? LMAO...

Not that I care about the noise, but that's a pretty silly justification. And it's pretty much been proven false.

According to the Hurt report is was determined that 77% of motorcycle accident hazards come from in front of the rider, while only 3% approach from the rear. What's interesting here is that motorcycle pipes direct the vast majority of sound backwards where the least danger is, so for loud pipes to be truly effective safety measures they would need to be pointed forward where the greatest danger lies. That doesn't do much to support the proposition that loud pipes are a safely factor. The other serious problem I have with this supposition is that it is, at best, a secondary safety measure, not a primary or proactive measure. Assuming that the other driver will act with caution once you have identified your presence by the sound of your bike roaring up from behind is foolhardy at best.

Interestingly enough too, I found that most motorcyclists with louder than stock pipes, interviewed in the various articles I read on the subject admitted that is was mostly a macho thing. They simply liked the sound of a deep-throated exhaust note, it added to the pleasure of the machine for them, very few made any mention of the "safety" issue. So it would seem the true believers in the LPSL crowd are in the vast minority, it may make a great tee shirt slogan, but is ability to hold water is about equal to that of the tee shirt it's printed on.http://www.virginiawind.com/byways/loud_pipes_save_lives.asp

Here's what the AMA(American Motorcycle Association) says about it:

The AMA has gone so far as to make a policy statement on the issue which reads " The [AMA] believes that few other factors contribute more to misunderstanding and prejudice against the motorcycling community than excessively noisy motorcycles". They then go on to say, "Shifting blame and failing to adopt responsible policies on a voluntary basis can only result in greater prejudice and discrimination against motorcycling. The consequences of continuing to ignore this issue will likely result in excessively rigorous state and federal standards, ……[and] abusive enforcement of current laws and other solutions undesirable to riders and the motorcycle industry"

Dayze
06-09-2010, 12:50 PM
not to mention most aftermarket pipes are loud enough to get you a ticket if a LEO was so inclined/had the equipment to measure db.

..well, at least sportbike pipes; not sure about cruiser-style pipes.
I would imagine most straight pipes/pipes with baffling removed/cored etc would be enough to get a ticket.

I know when sportbikes are pulled over, the cops try to write a ticket for anything and everything; loud pipe; imporperly displayed tag etc.

Radar Chief
06-09-2010, 12:53 PM
Are loud motorcycles scaring you or are you one of the people who pull out in front of us so and say you did not see us. That is why we make alot of noise because some people dont look as much as they should so let them hear us. Sorry that bothers you.

Loud pipes are a side effect of increasing performance, or should be. If you have added loud pipes and have done nothing to increase airflow into the engine all you’ve effectively accomplished is annoying anyone unfortunate enough to get stuck behind you in traffic.
Unless your pipes are pointing forward, no one in traffic over 10 ft. in front of you will hear them anyway. So they’re not going to do a thing to get the attention of the texting driver that pulls out in front of you.
“Loud pipes saving lives” is a long ago busted myth.
Your best defense is to ride like everyone around you is fucking retarded. Expect the worst all the time, and if you see someone doing something stupid assume they will repeat the activity.

Fish
06-09-2010, 12:57 PM
Your best defense is to ride like everyone around you is fucking retarded. Expect the worst all the time, and if you see someone doing something stupid assume they will repeat the activity.

:D Truth. And I don't think it's limited to bike riding.

Radar Chief
06-09-2010, 12:58 PM
Ah, I see this was already handled. Never mind.

chiefsnorth
06-09-2010, 01:20 PM
That loud pipes stuff is a bunch of nonsense... Not even the short straights that cause deafness can overcome the insulation of the modern quiet cabin with radios and phones and children in the mix as distractions. The best safety equiment and the only thing you should depend on is inside your helmet. The douchepipes just give a false sense that people will see you which is an assumption that should never be made.

Bane
06-09-2010, 01:26 PM
Yeah thats funny.I've had about every brand of motorcycle out there at one time or another.My last 3 have been HD's and I actually love my current HD Road Glide,but I have always been amazed at the "ride of your life" crowd when it comes to HD's.

When I bought my first HD the salesman tried telling me that it was world changing,it was a miracle of a ride and it would change my life!.Yeah its just a bike to me.Yes it rides nice,looks and sound nice but at the end of the day its just a motorcycle.I love how they try to make it seem as if it just makes the world a better place and all of your hopes and dreams come true when you get on a HD.ROFL

Brock
06-09-2010, 01:46 PM
Are loud motorcycles scaring you or are you one of the people who pull out in front of us so and say you did not see us. That is why we make alot of noise because some people dont look as much as they should so let them hear us. Sorry that bothers you.

Bah, just admit you like loud pipes because they sound cool. I've had them on my Sportster for 20+ years, but only because that's how a Sportster should sound. Loud pipes on a big twin don't sound that great, and they definitely sound like crap on metric bikes.

Dayze
06-09-2010, 01:56 PM
i usually never put aftermarket exhaust on my bikes simply because it's money I"ll never see again etc.
but when/if I get a ducati, I'm installing a new ECU, open airbox, and putting on some Leo Vince slip-ons ....and removing the db killer. :evil:

simply because it sounds awesome; no real huge gains in torque or HP.

Radar Chief
06-09-2010, 03:35 PM
My bike is on the loud side because I put a Muzzy Ti exhaust system on it. I did so to drop weight off the bike, increase performance, and I’ll admit it was slightly because I like the sound but that grew old long ago.
Loud pipes draw attention, yea, but they also draw the wrong attention. From cops.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been pulled over because, “it sounded like” I was doing something illegal, and sometimes they were right.
The first time I went riding with Motorcycle Drag Racing buddy after he bought his then new GSXR1000, what impressed me most wasn’t that in 3rd gear at 100 MPH-ish he could slip the clutch and stand it up in a wheelie rocketing off into the distance, it’s that while doing it all I would hear is a slight whoosh as he shot past.
Next bike I get will be another sport bike but I’ll probably leave the exhaust alone.

thawk
06-09-2010, 03:39 PM
Pipes for performance, along with fuel management system and K&N air filters. Yes a little louder bike is a byproduct but I did not know I pissed so many people off by doing this. I dont need the extra preformance either I just like it. That being said I dont ride 90 mph everywhere I go. Just remember the next time you are in the house watching southpark re-runs I am out rideing.

Bane
06-09-2010, 03:43 PM
My bike's not so loud,but it has a deep pitch to it.I have Rinehart duals on it with 2 1/2 in baffles in them.I took the 1 3/4 in ones out after about a year and put the bigger ones in and added a race tuner.It's not nearly as loud as the drag pipes I had on my Deuce,that sob was ignorant loud.

thawk
06-09-2010, 03:45 PM
The loud pipes do sound like crap on the metric bikes trying again to sound more H.D. like. No that is not a slam on metric bikes either, I ride with several guys with metric bikes. Bikes are like personality, make yours your own not someone else's

Bane
06-09-2010, 03:48 PM
The loud pipes do sound like crap on the metric bikes trying again to sound more H.D. like. No that is not a slam on metric bikes either, I ride with several guys with metric bikes. Bikes are like personality, make yours your own not someone else's

One of the guys I ride with has a lime green Honda VTX 1800.Nice bike don't get me wrong,but he has some Vance and Hines long shots on it and IMO it sounds like shit.

thawk
06-09-2010, 03:53 PM
Mine not that loud either, Vance & Hines true duals with K&N kit and Fuel controll system. Wish I had waited to get the Rienharts but they were out a while and needed to cool my bike down as it is an 07 and that was the year they leaned them out so much to meet California epa regs that they run crazy hot. I live in Kansas so dont care much about the left coast rules. No complains with my V&H but the Rienharts do sound a bit deeper going down the road.

Dayze
06-09-2010, 03:53 PM
One of the guys I ride with has a lime green Honda VTX 1800.Nice bike don't get me wrong,but he has some Vance and Hines long shots on it and IMO it sounds like shit.

why do Harley's have 'the sound'?
serious question.

I've heard some good metrics, and some very bad ones (..a VTX to be specific)....but have never heard a bad sounding HD.


First time I heard a Ducati 748 roll up, I thought a pimped out corvette was rolling into the parking lot. I couldn't see it from inside the store I was at; just heard an amazing sound.

Bane
06-09-2010, 03:55 PM
Mine not that loud either, Vance & Hines true duals with K&N kit and Fuel controll system. Wish I had waited to get the Rienharts but they were out a while and needed to cool my bike down as it is an 07 and that was the year they leaned them out so much to meet California epa regs that they run crazy hot. I live in Kansas so dont care much about the left coast rules. No complains with my V&H but the Rienharts do sound a bit deeper going down the road.

I was gonna go with Thunder Headers but I really liked the way the Rineharts sounded.

thawk
06-09-2010, 03:57 PM
I had a VTX 1800 and put Hard Krome 3" big straights on it and it sounded like crap so I rode it a couple of years and bought my Road king. Have to addmite though that VTX with the pipes, k&n, and power cammander on it would jump plumb out from under me if I was not careful. Love my Road King though GREAT RIDE

Dayze
06-09-2010, 03:59 PM
I had a VTX 1800 and put Hard Krome 3" big straights on it and it sounded like crap so I rode it a couple of years and bought my Road king. Have to addmite though that VTX with the pipes, k&n, and power cammander on it would jump plumb out from under me if I was not careful. Love my Road King though GREAT RIDE

...always wondered about those.
sometimes I just want to scrap my plans and get a bigger/touring type bike.

thawk
06-09-2010, 04:00 PM
Pretty sure the rumble and sound come from the valve trane cofiguration and length of stroke, very old school tech. correct me if I am wrong.

Radar Chief
06-09-2010, 04:00 PM
Pipes for performance, along with fuel management system and K&N air filters. Yes a little louder bike is a byproduct but I did not know I pissed so many people off by doing this. I dont need the extra preformance either I just like it.

Who said anything about “need”? I’ve boosted the performance of my scoot for the same reason, it puts a smile on my face.

That being said I dont ride 90 mph everywhere I go.

I’ll typically ride at a faster pace than most Harley riders because my bike is more comfortable there. I try to cruise right around 80, conditions permitting, that’s about 5000 RPM in top gear and the bottom end of where the engine clears it’s throat and starts breathing properly.

Just remember the next time you are in the house watching southpark re-runs I am out rideing.

No reason to get upset. My post to you was simply over the “loud pipes save lives” idea. I apologize if I was overly abrasive in making that point.

Dayze
06-09-2010, 04:02 PM
Pretty sure the rumble and sound come from the valve trane cofiguration and length of stroke, very old school tech. correct me if I am wrong.

are they 47 deg twins?

heard once that single pin crank play a role too (I"m sure it 'all ' plays a role though etc), but I have no idea.


I think Yamahas sound good for metrics; my vstar sounded decent stock. I heard a few bikes like my vstar with Cobras and they didn't sound too bad.
love the Roadliner.

Radar Chief
06-09-2010, 04:08 PM
why do Harley's have 'the sound'?
serious question.

I've heard some good metrics, and some very bad ones (..a VTX to be specific)....but have never heard a bad sounding HD.


First time I heard a Ducati 748 roll up, I thought a pimped out corvette was rolling into the parking lot. I couldn't see it from inside the store I was at; just heard an amazing sound.

45 Deg V-Twin with a single pin crank, meaning both connecting rods are connected to the same crank journal.
It’s an inherently off balance motor that needs a lot of bob weight to smooth out vibrations, and they still vibrate like a MoFo.
It’s been several years ago but Honda’s Shadow 1100 used to use a crank with two offset pins, a journal for each cylinder, that made for more power and a smoother engine and they switched it to a single pin crank just to get that Harley sound.
Ducati’s are also a single pin crank V-Twin but the cylinders are at 90 Deg from each other making it a more balanced motor.

thawk
06-09-2010, 04:08 PM
If I were retired and going to ride on alot of long trips I would buy a wing. Right now and for the forseeable future I will be rideing my Road Kind. I can easily ride 400 to 500 miles a day for a long weekend and be fine. That is all I have time for now. The Harley touring bikes have air ride, factory cruise control, way better stock seats than any metric cruiser with even better aftermarket seats available, six speed transimissions and come with windshields on them already. Most metric cruisers dont have the options unless you pay $$$$ for them after purchaseing it.

thawk
06-09-2010, 04:13 PM
The six speeds with the 96 " motor really coast well at about 75 or 80 also. They seem to be working so easy at that combo. Not upset about the southpark reference just lots of them made in this post the past few days. wasn't singleing you out radar chief.

Dayze
06-09-2010, 04:15 PM
6 speed tranny is a must; my vstar 650 needed a taller 5th or a 6th for prolonged 70+ runs. Motor was fine, but just a bit too buzzy. then again, it was made to troll around town.

R8RFAN
06-10-2010, 07:39 AM
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r240/smearig/yamahaw.jpg

R8RFAN
06-10-2010, 07:45 AM
If I were retired and going to ride on alot of long trips I would buy a wing. Right now and for the forseeable future I will be rideing my Road Kind. I can easily ride 400 to 500 miles a day for a long weekend and be fine. That is all I have time for now. The Harley touring bikes have air ride, factory cruise control, way better stock seats than any metric cruiser with even better aftermarket seats available, six speed transimissions and come with windshields on them already. Most metric cruisers dont have the options unless you pay $$$$ for them after purchaseing it.

I dunno, I like a Harley but those Roadstars have a bunch of aftermarket stuff

Here my old Roady

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/greenchicken/10-07-07_1133.jpg