PDA

View Full Version : Local One can only hope: Israel expected to "significantly ease" Gaza blockade.


Direckshun
06-16-2010, 06:01 AM
I'm going to wait to hear what happens, but a huge applause is in order for Israel in the wake of the flotilla disaster if they follow through and make actual reforms to their ill-advised blockade.

The impulse of Netanyahu and his ilk is to simply double down, make the Big Lie bigger, and to ignore empirical evidence.

That doesn't seem to be what they're doing here. It's out of character, and a welcome change for the glorified shanty-town that is Gaza.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/16/israel-set-ease-gaza-blockade/

Officials: Israel to Significantly Ease Gaza Blockade
June 16, 2010 | Associated Press

JERUSALEM -- Israel will significantly ease its bruising land blockade of the Gaza Strip on Wednesday, officials said, in an effort to blunt the widespread international criticism that has followed a deadly Israeli commando raid on a blockade-busting flotilla.

Senior Cabinet ministers were meeting to limit restrictions on what gets into Gaza -- materials Israel says militants could use in their battle against the Jewish state -- to a short list of goods, some of them desperately needed by Gaza civilians.

But the Israeli naval blockade that was at the root of the deadly raid that prompted the international outcry will remain intact.

It also wasn't clear whether key raw materials for industry would be permitted to enter again and whether Israel would end its ban on Gazan exports.

The three-year-old embargo has shuttered hundreds of Gazan factories, put tens of thousands of people out of work and brought the territory's fragile economy to a standstill. Travel restrictions that confine most of Gaza's 1.5 million people to the territory are also likely to remain in effect.

Israel, with Egypt's cooperation, has blockaded the Palestinian territory by land and sea ever since Hamas militants, with a violent anti-Israel agenda, seized control of Gaza in 2007.

For the most part, only basic humanitarian goods have been allowed in.

Items such as cement and steel, badly needed to rebuild homes and businesses after Israel's war in the territory last year, have barely been allowed in. Israel says militants can use them to build weapons and military fortifications.

Under the new guidelines, those materials will be allowed in to an undetermined extent in coordination with the United Nations, but won't be freely available to private citizens, Israeli officials said. Restrictions on things like school supplies, books, computers and toys are expected to be lifted.

"It would be nice for Gaza residents to be able to receive previously banned items such as paper, toys and computers," said Sari Bashi, an Israeli activist whose Gisha rights group has been fighting to open Gaza's borders. "But Gaza residents need to be able to receive raw materials in order to engage in productive, dignified work."

The blockade was designed to keep out weapons, turn Gazans against their militant Hamas rulers and pressure the Iranian-backed Hamas to free a captive Israeli soldier. It did not achieve those aims, however, and both weapons and goods sold at black market prices continued to flow into the territory through a large network of smuggling tunnels built under the Gaza-Egypt border.

The blockade did not provoke an international outcry until Israeli commandos killed nine Turks two weeks ago in a raid on a Gaza-bound flotilla that sought to draw attention to the blockade's effects.

With pro-Palestinian activists promising to keep blockade-busting boats coming, Israel has been scrambling to find ways to ease the embargo and its own growing international isolation.

Relaxing the restrictions on goods that go through Israeli-controlled land crossings is less complicated than easing the sea blockade. Israel is afraid that weapons ships will stream into Gaza if the naval blockade is lifted, with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowing that Israel would "not allow the establishment of an Iranian port in Gaza."

On Wednesday, a top Israeli security chief warned against lifting the sea blockade, saying that even international inspectors would not be able to keep Israel safe.

The Haaretz newspaper on Wednesday quoted international envoy Tony Blair as hailing the expected vote by the Israeli ministers.

"It will allow us to keep weapons and weapon materials out of Gaza, but on the other hand to help the Palestinian population there," Blair was quoted as saying. "The policy in Gaza should be to isolate the extremists but to help the people"

Blair represents the Quartet of Mideast negotiators -- the U.S., European Union, U.N. and Russia.

Duck Dog
06-16-2010, 06:48 AM
Go stand in front of a bulldozer.

patteeu
06-16-2010, 07:23 AM
The impulse of Netanyahu and his ilk is to simply double down, make the Big Lie bigger, and to ignore empirical evidence.

That sounds a lot like what you were doing with respect to this flotilla incident.

mlyonsd
06-16-2010, 07:34 AM
I guess I didn't realize Egypt was helping Israel with the blockade.

Why no hate for them? Why does Israel take all the blame by the media and rest of the Arab world?

BucEyedPea
06-16-2010, 08:29 AM
I guess I didn't realize Egypt was helping Israel with the blockade.

Why no hate for them? Why does Israel take all the blame by the media and rest of the Arab world?

Egypt was helping to keep Gazans trapped in earlier on the other siege too.
Paid US govt lackeys.

Direckshun
06-17-2010, 08:34 AM
I guess I didn't realize Egypt was helping Israel with the blockade.

Why no hate for them? Why does Israel take all the blame by the media and rest of the Arab world?

Who says there's no "hate" for Egypt?

ForeverChiefs58
06-23-2010, 05:02 PM
I suppose you are just as upset about the soldier that was kidnapped and is still denied any visits or access? You know the kiddnapping along with terrorist gov that started the whole blockade.

HonestChieffan
06-23-2010, 05:04 PM
If Iran sends a boat load of the wrong stuff or people finches the will blow that ship to hell. I'd buy drinks.

orange
06-23-2010, 05:57 PM
I suppose you are just as upset about the soldier that was kidnapped and is still denied any visits or access? You know the kiddnapping along with terrorist gov that started the whole blockade.

I guess the blockade didn't get him released, did it? :doh!:

And it didn't get Hamas out of power. :doh!: :doh!:

But it did screw up Israel's important relationship with Turkey. :doh!: :doh!: :doh!:

Another brilliant success for Likud militarism!

Bill Parcells
06-23-2010, 06:23 PM
I guess the blockade didn't get him released, did it? :doh!:

And it didn't get Hamas out of power. :doh!: :doh!:

But it did screw up Israel's important relationship with Turkey. :doh!: :doh!: :doh!:

Another brilliant success for Likud militarism!

Yes, the Israelis should go into gaza with flowers and butterflies coming out of their asses. NOW THAT would surely get that soldier released.

Donger
06-23-2010, 06:29 PM
Direckshun, would would you suggest we do if say, Al Qaeda, was sending a "flotilla of peace" to our shores?

go bowe
06-23-2010, 06:34 PM
Direckshun, would would you suggest we do if say, Al Qaeda, was sending a "flotilla of peace" to our shores?i don't know about direckshun, but i'd want to stop them far away from our borders and check for wmd...

of course we don't have a blockade in place so i don't know what the legalities would be...

but al qaeda is much more dangerous to us than the flotillas are to israel, so i assume we'd do something to not allow them to sail right into one of our ports...

Bill Parcells
06-23-2010, 06:36 PM
Direckshun, would would you suggest we do if say, Al Qaeda, was sending a "flotilla of peace" to our shores?

He would have to wait until his old college professor (his mentor) makes him write a thesis on how The United States wrongfully dropped OBL like a dirty dog after the Soviets left Afghanistan. its all Ronald Reagan and Bush I's fault we have al qaeda..according to the child liberal of course.

Donger
06-23-2010, 06:38 PM
i don't know about direckshun, but i'd want to stop them far away from our borders and check for wmd...

of course we don't have a blockade in place so i don't know what the legalities would be...

but al qaeda is much more dangerous to us than the flotillas are to israel, so i assume we'd do something to not allow them to sail right into one of our ports...

I would imagine that the Israel thinks differently.

ForeverChiefs58
06-23-2010, 06:55 PM
al qaeda is much more dangerous to us than the flotillas are to israel, so i assume we'd do something to not allow them to sail right into one of our ports...

Really? Do we get rockets fired on us daily? that "aid" is given to a terrorist organization right next door to them that fires rockets daily on our allies innocent civilians and declairs its main goal is isreals destruction.

Bill Parcells
06-23-2010, 07:01 PM
Really? Do we get rockets fired on us daily? that "aid" is given to a terrorist organization right next door to them that fires rockets daily on our allies innocent civilians and declairs its main goal is isreals destruction.

The United States gave 400 million for more katusha rockets and rpg's and ak's for the poor poor Palestinians.

mlyonsd
06-23-2010, 07:10 PM
The United States gave 400 million for more katusha rockets and rpg's and ak's for the poor poor Palestinians.

As a reward for crashing the blockade and knifing some Jews don't forget.

Donger
06-23-2010, 07:14 PM
I view people like Direckshun like the idiots who supported the IRA before they committed to peace. It makes him feel good inside to be on the side of the Palestinians, but does he really know what's going on?

ForeverChiefs58
06-23-2010, 07:22 PM
I guess the blockade didn't get him released, did it? :doh!:

And it didn't get Hamas out of power. :doh!: :doh!:

But it did screw up Israel's important relationship with Turkey. :doh!: :doh!: :doh!:

Another brilliant success for Likud militarism!

Or they could try not kidnapping and killing then there would be no blockade or are you that stupid? They don't care about peace, their own people, or the soldier, they just want to kill in the name of islam as a front because they hate jews and america.

patteeu
06-23-2010, 11:06 PM
I guess the blockade didn't get him released, did it? :doh!:

And it didn't get Hamas out of power. :doh!: :doh!:

But it did screw up Israel's important relationship with Turkey. :doh!: :doh!: :doh!:

Another brilliant success for Likud militarism!

Yeah, the blockade screwed up the relationship with Turkey, lol.

orange
06-23-2010, 11:19 PM
Or they could try not kidnapping and killing then there would be no blockade or are you that stupid? They don't care about peace, their own people, or the soldier, they just want to kill in the name of islam as a front because they hate jews and america.

Or they could have traded other prisoners for him - just like they always did when they weren't too busy trying to show they still have big balls after getting their asses kicked out of Lebanon - and just like they will end up doing, four years late.

Stupid people don't know they do that. People like you.

orange
06-23-2010, 11:24 PM
Yeah, the blockade screwed up the relationship with Turkey, lol.


http://www.jpost.com/HttpHandlers/ShowImage.ashx?ID=140813
Photo by: Associated Press

Gates: Turkey-Israel relations a concern
By JPOST.COM STAFF
06/09/2010 15:43


US cites Turkey's strategic shift away from Europe as "destabilizing."
Talkbacks (38) Turkey's apparent shift in orientation away from Europe and its values towards greater cooperation with Islamist leaders and countries in the Middle East is being cautiously watched by the US, Defense Secretary Robert Gates stated on Wednesday.

"The deterioration in the relationship between Turkey and Israel over the past year or so is a matter of concern," Gates was quoted by Reuters as telling reporters in London.

RELATED:
Turkey expands economics ties with the East
Erdogan: Israel must pay price

"I think the two had a pretty constructive relationship and one that contributed to stability in the region, and I hope that, over time, that kind of constructive relationship can be reestablished," Gates reportedly said.

Turkey, which had a solid alliance with Israel until the three-week Gaza war that ended in early 2009, said it would reduce military and trade ties and shelved discussions of energy projects, including natural gas and fresh water shipments. It threatened to break ties unless Israel apologizes for the Mavi Marmara raid.

"We are evaluating everything. It is up to Israel how our ties will continue," Turkish Foreign Minister Davutoglu said on Monday. "Israel has to accept the consequences of its actions and be held accountable."

Gates also told the reporters at the same London meeting that UN Security Council would likely pass a tougher Iran sanctions measure today, paving the way for additional measures against the Iranian nuclear program.

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=177945

orange
06-23-2010, 11:26 PM
Gates: Turkey-Israel relations a concern



Of course, who listens to him? He should stick to BBQ sauce - he's certainly not an expert on security like patteeu.

ForeverChiefs58
06-24-2010, 06:32 AM
Or they could have traded other prisoners for him - just like they always did when they weren't too busy trying to show they still have big balls after getting their asses kicked out of Lebanon - and just like they will end up doing, four years late.

Stupid people don't know they do that. People like you.

You are full tard. The only reason they were in lebanon to begin with was because of the constant attacks. So you support the attack that killed almost 300 US marines in lebanon for that same operation? You realize you are a stupid american traitor ignorant filthy trash anti semetic racist terrorist supporting maggot asshole that needs to go hug a suicide bomber! Do everyone a favor and move to Gaza so you can be fitted for a suicide vest.

patteeu
06-24-2010, 07:38 AM
Of course, who listens to him? He should stick to BBQ sauce - he's certainly not an expert on security like patteeu.

I think you have some confusion about cause and effect here. I trust that Sec. Gates isn't suffering from the same misconception.

Consider this: Why would the Israeli blockade be causing Turkey to move away from Europe and toward the Islamist camp given that Europe has been nearly universal in it's condemnation of the flotilla incident? Your own article doesn't support your theory.

orange
06-24-2010, 11:38 AM
You are full tard. The only reason they were in lebanon to begin with was because of the constant attacks. So you support the attack that killed almost 300 US marines in lebanon for that same operation? You realize you are a stupid american traitor ignorant filthy trash anti semetic racist terrorist supporting maggot asshole that needs to go hug a suicide bomber! Do everyone a favor and move to Gaza so you can be fitted for a suicide vest.

They went into Lebanon after a different prisoner. You are a fucking moron and a coward.

Why don't you go write some more anonymous threats to your congressman, dickmouth.


I can't believe they let some boy loving terrorist supporter like you on chiefsplanet. Who else they let on here OBL? Figured you guys to be raiders fans.
Did you know that allah is an evil satan loving terrorist pillowbiter monkey toad ****ing pedaphile? I am drawing a picture right now of the evil terrorist ball licker with a bomb shoved in his asshole while sucking satans dick! What are you going to do about it?
**** you nazi lovin anti semetic hitler ball gurglin asshat. I hope homeland security gives you an anal probe with a dinomite stick and sand!

orange
06-24-2010, 11:44 AM
I think you have some confusion about cause and effect here. I trust that Sec. Gates isn't suffering from the same misconception.

Consider this: Why would the Israeli blockade be causing Turkey to move away from Europe and toward the Islamist camp given that Europe has been nearly universal in it's condemnation of the flotilla incident? Your own article doesn't support your theory.

I don't know. Ask them.



Turkey to normalize Israeli ties if Gaza blockade ends
Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutogu says it is 'time calm replaces anger.'
By Reuters
Tags: Israel news Gaza flotilla Turkey Gaza

Turkey said on Wednesday it was ready to normalize ties with Israel if it lifted the blockade on Gaza and said "it was time calm replaced anger" in the wake of Israel's deadly raid on a Turkish-backed flotilla.

"The future of ties with Israel will depend on the attitude of Israel," Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu told a news conference in Ankara on Wednesday on his return from the United States. Turkey recalled its ambassador to Israel following Monday's storming of Gaza bound aid ships.

"I see no reason for not normalizing the ties, once the Gaza blockade is lifted and our citizens are released," he added.


Turkey cancelled joint military exercises and recalled its ambassador from Israel after the flotilla incident on Monday.
Davutoglu said three of nine activists killed when Israeli commandos stormed ships trying to take aid to Gaza had been identified as Turks, while a fourth had a Turkish credit card.

He was speaking as Israel's navy prepared to block another aid ship, the MV Rachel Corrie, on course to enter Gazan waters on Wednesday.

Davutoglu spoke with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Tuesday to discuss the diplomatic crisis, and had been in New York a day earlier for a U.N. Security Council meeting called by Turkey to pass a resolution condemning Israel's actions.

Turkey was awaiting the repatriation on Wednesday of hundreds of activists from Israel, after sending civilian and military aircraft to bring them home.

"I told Mrs. Clinton on the phone that we would review all ties with Israel if our citizens were not released within 24 hours, which is tonight," Davutoglu said, though he noted two were too badly wounded to travel.

Washington faces difficulties stepping into a crisis between two heavyweight military powers whose friendship has helped U.S. diplomacy in the Middle East.

Davutoglu called for the United Nations to investigate the incident, and was scathing about the prospects for an Israeli probe.

"We want a detailed investigation by United Nations into Israel's rogue state actions," Davutoglu said. "What can be expected from an investigation run by a state in criminal status. It's Israel's actions that need to be investigated."

A once-close ally of Israel, Turkey became a harsh critic after the Israeli offensive in Gaza in December 2008.

But the killings of Turks on a Turkish-flagged ship in international waters has brought the strained relationship between the Jewish state and Turkey's Islamist-leaning government close to breaking point.

Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan has become one of the most popular figures in the Islamic world by championing the Palestinian cause.

With polls due in Turkey by July next year, Erdogan's strong stand in foreign policy could win support for his AK Party.

Protests have been held outside Israeli diplomatic missions in Ankara and Istanbul since Monday.

"It's time that calm replaced anger in reaction to Israel, people should avoid impulsive behavior," Davutoglu said.

"The security of families of Israeli diplomats, Israeli tourists and Jewish Turks is our nation's honor. We will be making sure they are safe."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/turkey-to-normalize-israeli-ties-if-gaza-blockade-ends-1.293757?localLinksEnabled=false

The Mad Crapper
06-24-2010, 11:45 AM
Yeah, the blockade screwed up the relationship with Turkey, lol.

ROFL at comrade Orange.

orange
06-24-2010, 11:49 AM
You won't will have SHTSPRAYER to kick around anymore

I see it's back. What was it, three days?

The Mad Crapper
06-24-2010, 11:51 AM
I see it's back. What was it, three days?

Problem, son?

orange
06-24-2010, 11:56 AM
Problem, son?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=229511



A public service announcement from SHTSPRAYER

He just told me to tell everybody thanks for the memories! lol he wont be back!

He told me he actually donated to the site but was never recognized for it.


Now I want all of his biggest fans to come in here and shower him with accolades.

ROFL

The Mad Crapper
06-24-2010, 12:08 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=229511

B.O. never heard Reverened Wright say GOD DAMN AMERICA so I don't recall what D2112 was suggesting in that thread.

You see how this works, you commie piece of garbage?

ROFL

patteeu
06-24-2010, 01:10 PM
I don't know. Ask them.




As with any politician or diplomat, you'd be better served to watch what they do rather than listen to what they say.

The criticism of Israel's Gaza policy is a result of Turkey's move toward Islamism not the other way around. Israel's Gaza policy doesn't explain Turkey's move away from Europe, as I've already pointed out.

ForeverChiefs58
06-24-2010, 01:39 PM
They went into Lebanon after a different prisoner. You are a fucking moron and a coward.

Bullshit you don't know what the fuck you are talking about! The US went into lebanon on a peace mission asshole. The same coward piece of fucking terrorist trash that blew himself up 25 years ago and killed our innocent troups, is the same piece of scumbag shitpile we are fighting now so FUCK YOU with a rusty chainsaw coward!! Want to see a REAL coward piss his own fucking pants? Try saying this BULLSHIT to my face and see what happens you yellow bellied traitor coward. Why don't you go martyr yourself into a flamming aids tree while drinking antifreeze!

orange
06-24-2010, 01:41 PM
Bullshit you don't know what the **** you are talking about! The US went into lebanon on a peace mission asshole. The same coward piece of ****ing terrorist trash that blew himself up 25 years ago and killed our innocent troups, is the same piece of scumbag shitpile we are fighting now so **** YOU with a rusty chainsaw coward!! Want to see a REAL coward piss his own ****ing pants? Try saying this BULLSHIT to my face and see what happens you yellow bellied traitor coward. Why don't you go martyr yourself into a flamming aids tree while drinking antifreeze!

Threats?

Mods?

HonestChieffan
06-24-2010, 01:45 PM
mods? you gotta be kidding me.

orange
06-24-2010, 01:48 PM
Bullshit you don't know what the **** you are talking about! The US went into lebanon on a peace mission asshole.

You truly are an idiot. This confirms it. You don't have the slightest clue what the **** you're talking about it, but you're bound to damned-sure say it anyway.



Lebanon War of 2006

On July 12, 2006, Hezbollah terrorists crossed the border from Lebanon into Israel and attacked a group of Israeli soldiers patrolling the border, killing eight soldiers and kidnapping two others – Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev. Israel responded with precision air strikes specifically aimed at Hezbollah positions and operational assets inside Lebanon; Hezbollah immediately unleashed a barrage of Katyusha rockets targeting civilian population centers in Israel’s northern cities including Kiryat Shemona, Haifa and Safed. The rocket fire continued at an unprecedented pace of more than 100 per day, totaling nearly 4,000 rockets over the duration of the conflict which lasted close to five weeks.

Israel’s air strikes targeted known Hezbollah positions including the offices of its leadership, weapons storage sites, bunkers and rocket launch sites. Israel sought to disable infrastructure used by Hezbollah including Beirut’s airport and certain roads and bridges through which Iran and Syria supplied weaponry to Hezbollah. Air strikes were supported by limited ground incursions to specific villages in southern Lebanon near Israel’s border followed by a broader ground offensive with the goal of expelling as many Hezbollah terrorists as possible from southern Lebanon.

Hezbollah – a U.S.-designated terrorist organization – has occupied the region south of the Litani River since shortly after Israel’s U.N.-certified withdrawal from Lebanon in 2000. Following that withdrawal, Hezbollah moved into the vacated area and established themselves in bunkers throughout civilian areas, despite the presence of UNIFIL observer troops stationed there under the terms of Security Council Resolution 1559. Since Israel’s withdrawal in 2000, Hezbollah has attacked Israel more than 20 times with cross-border raids and Katyusha rockets. Hezbollah terrorists live among civilians, store their weapons and hold meetings in civilian houses, and fire their rockets into Israel from civilian neighborhoods, in direct violation of international humanitarian law.

During the conflict, Hezbollah indiscriminately fired Katyusha rockets at Israeli population centers with the intent of harming innocent civilians. At least 157 Israelis were killed during the conflict and countless more injured. The rockets also drove nearly 400,000 Israelis from their homes in the north, while those remaining had to spend long periods in bomb shelters for the duration of the month-long conflict. Damage to northern Israel surpassed $1.5 billion.

Israel responded with air strikes that were intended to hit only legitimate military targets and took extra steps to ensure minimal civilian casualties. In advance of strikes in civilian areas, Israel gave up a certain degree of surprise by dropping fliers and sending radio messages warning civilians to leave specific areas. Israel also employed precise ordnance rather than larger, more effective ordnance to avoid collateral damage. Despite Israel’s best efforts, the situation created on the ground by Hezbollah led to the temporary displacement of 800,000 Lebanese civilians and the death of an estimated 1,000 Lebanese. Hezbollah does not report its casualty figures, and many non-uniformed Hezbollah terrorists are suspected of being among the dead.

The conflict subsided with the adoption of United Nations Security Council Resolution 1701, passed unanimously on August 11, 2006 and adopted by Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert’s Cabinet – also unanimously – on August 13, 2006. The resolution called for an immediate cessation of hostilities to be followed by a withdrawal of Israeli forces from southern Lebanon during a simultaneous takeover of the territory by a 15,000-troop contingent of the Lebanese army and a 15,000-troop beefed-up UNIFIL force comprised of international troops. The resolution required that Lebanon assert its sovereignty over the entire country and forbade the rearming of terrorist militias in Lebanon. Nearly identical to Resolution 1559, which was passed in 2004 but never fully implemented, these stipulations require that Hezbollah be disarmed and not rearmed by any foreign powers, including most notably Iran and Syria.

Resolution 1701 mandated the "unconditional release" of the two Israeli soldiers kidnapped by Hezbollah. In July 2008, the bodies of Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev were released to Israel as part of a prisoner exchange. Until that time, Hezbollah refused to provide information as to their fate.

Following the cessation of the war, there was much criticism within Israel that while the country had no choice but to act against Hezbollah following its attack on Israeli soil, the military and country had been ill-prepared for the conflict and its soldiers ill-equipped. Prime Minister Olmert ordered a government commission of inquiry into the war. The resulting Winograd Commission issued its findings in April 2007 and January 2008 on the decision-making before and during the war by the Prime Minister, the Defense Minister, the Chief of Staff and others, concluding “we determine that there are very serious failings in these decisions and the way they were made.”

Be sure and call the writers of that article anti-Semitic, pissant.

ForeverChiefs58
06-24-2010, 01:51 PM
Threats?

Mods?

A few lessons you should get to know:

1) Don't assault a cop unless you are ok with getting hit back

2) Don't throw rocks at people who have guns pointed at you

3) Don't call someone a coward with more bravery in their pinky then you have in your whole misserable, pathetic, wimpy piece of trash body. Esp. when they could pulverize you into the fucking ground.

4) Quit being a terrorist supporting asshole. Support and protect your country

ForeverChiefs58
06-24-2010, 02:02 PM
You truly are an idiot. This confirms it. You don't have the slightest clue what the **** you're talking about it, but you're bound to damned-sure say it anyway.
Be sure and call the writers of that article anti-Semitic, pissant.

I was talking about US troups in lebanon 25 years ago when a chicken shit terrorist killed 300 US service men.

orange
06-24-2010, 02:04 PM
A few lessons you should get to know:

1) Don't assault a cop unless you are ok with getting hit back

2) Don't throw rocks at people who have guns pointed at you

3) Don't call someone a coward with more bravery in their pinky then you have in your whole misserable, pathetic, wimpy piece of trash body. Esp. when they could pulverize you into the ****ing ground.

4) Quit being a terrorist supporting asshole. Support and protect your country

You're a bitch. You're a coward. You're a cunt.

When are you going to come get me, Internet Tough Guy?!

ForeverChiefs58
06-24-2010, 02:13 PM
You're a bitch. You're a coward. You're a cunt.

When are you going to come get me, Internet Tough Guy?!

Depends, can you give me directions to the easiest route?

would be fun to see you shit all over your coward self. Guess that would make you a brown and yellow traitor.

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 02:23 PM
You're a bitch. You're a coward. You're a ****.

When are you going to come get me, Internet Tough Guy?!

Careful ForeverChiefs58. It's at this point that he's trying to get you to say something that will get you banned.

orange
06-24-2010, 02:28 PM
Careful ForeverChiefs58. It's at this point that he's trying to get you to say something that will get you banned.

Good observation, but I'm woefully unenlightened on what qualifies. I haven't followed the various SHTSPRAYER bannings - he'd been on ignore for over a year; I only took him off a couple weeks ago when it seemed like he had his tourette's under control, ironically only to have him go off on ROR and get banned again. Now he's back and seems determined to get banned again, so maybe I'll follow it this time and see the proper procedure.

Direckshun
06-24-2010, 02:29 PM
Honestly this place better hope I never end up as a mod.

I would clean the shit out of this forum. And civilized discussion, evil as it may be, may actually take root.

And we can't have that bullshit happening.

blaise
06-24-2010, 02:32 PM
Honestly this place better hope I never end up as a mod.

I would clean the shit out of this forum. And civilized discussion, evil as it may be, may actually take root.

And we can't have that bullshit happening.

Who besides SHT?

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 02:32 PM
Honestly this place better hope I never end up as a mod.

I would clean the shit out of this forum. And civilized discussion, evil as it may be, may actually take root.

Oh, sure. You're the girl for that job.

Donger
06-24-2010, 02:32 PM
Honestly this place better hope I never end up as a mod.

I would clean the shit out of this forum. And civilized discussion, evil as it may be, may actually take root.

And we can't have that bullshit happening.

You're adorable.

Direckshun
06-24-2010, 02:32 PM
Who besides SHT?

Basically everybody except the liberals.

I'm a liberal. We're totalitarian. Check your handbook.

Direckshun
06-24-2010, 02:33 PM
Oh, sure. You're the girl for that job.

If it pays.

My elite moderating abilities don't come cheap.

patteeu
06-24-2010, 02:34 PM
Threats?

Mods?

That's not the kind of threat that gets people banned.

Threat: I'm going to find you and punch you.

Not really much of a threat: If we ever meet and if you provoke me in a particular way, I'll punch you.

blaise
06-24-2010, 02:37 PM
Basically everybody except the liberals.

I'm a liberal. We're totalitarian. Check your handbook.

If this is the kind of sparkling debate you're striving for then by all means become a mod and ban people.

blaise
06-24-2010, 02:38 PM
That's not the kind of threat that gets people banned.

Threat: I'm going to find you and punch you.

Not threat: If we ever meet and if you provoke me in a particular way, I'll punch you.

He didn't even say that.

Direckshun
06-24-2010, 02:40 PM
If this is the kind of sparkling debate you're striving for then by all means become a mod and ban people.

Isn't an armed insurrection when people take weapons and use violence to attack the government, blaise?

patteeu
06-24-2010, 02:40 PM
Honestly this place better hope I never end up as a mod.

I would clean the shit out of this forum. And civilized discussion, evil as it may be, may actually take root.

And we can't have that bullshit happening.

There are a zillion over-moderated political discussion boards where "civilized discussion" takes place.

Direckshun
06-24-2010, 02:41 PM
There are a zillion over-moderated political discussion boards where "civilized discussion" takes place.

Where else do you post?

The Mad Crapper
06-24-2010, 02:41 PM
If it pays.

My elite moderating abilities don't come cheap.

double snaps, ms. thing!

blaise
06-24-2010, 02:41 PM
Isn't an armed insurrection when people take weapons and use violence to attack the government, blaise?

Why, do you have a point to make?

ForeverChiefs58
06-24-2010, 02:42 PM
Careful ForeverChiefs58. It's at this point that he's trying to get you to say something that will get you banned.


Thats ok. He got under my skin cause i know people killed by the monsters he is backing. He is a real coward and he knows it.
Too bad being a supporter of terrorist groups isn't enough to get you banned. Why not? Seems simple enough. I think it is offensive bullshit these fuckers can back known terrorists who have killed US troops. that it not ok. fuck orange

patteeu
06-24-2010, 02:42 PM
He didn't even say that.

Good point.

Direckshun
06-24-2010, 02:43 PM
Why, do you have a point to make?

You simply refuse to agree with me because it's me. It's hysterical.

Isn't it considered an armed insurrection when people take weapons and use violence to attack the government?

patteeu
06-24-2010, 02:43 PM
Where else do you post?

I've been self-banned from a zillion places because I don't like their moderation policies.

orange
06-24-2010, 02:43 PM
America's greatest ally ...

http://uncle-semite.com/fourthjuly/images/liberty-rescue-545.png

http://uncle-semite.com/fourthjuly/images/Liberty-body-bags-545.jpg

Direckshun
06-24-2010, 02:44 PM
I've been self-banned from a zillion places because I don't like their moderation policies.

Where?

I've been actually banned from a few places for being too devil's advocate-y.

blaise
06-24-2010, 02:46 PM
You simply refuse to agree with me because it's me. It's hysterical.

Isn't it considered an armed insurrection when people take weapons and use violence to attack the government?

Hey if you want to go reread that thread, be my guest. You were going nowhere towards any point that I could see and so I decided not to do your work for you. If you have anything additional to add, be my guest. I'm not doing some inane Q&A where you parse language one way or another until you get to whatever point it is you're trying to make.
Like I said, if you have a point to make, make it. Don't rely on me to guide you.

The Mad Crapper
06-24-2010, 02:47 PM
Where?

I've been actually banned from a few places for being too devil's advocate-y.

Oooh! Risque!

what a homo

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 02:50 PM
http://uncle-semite.com/fourthjuly/images/liberty-rescue-545.png

My daughter made a more seaworthy boat in her high school physics class. That was really what they ran the blockade in? They should all be dead at the bottom of the Mediterranean.

Donger
06-24-2010, 02:51 PM
My daughter made a more seaworthy boat in her high school physics class. That was really what they ran the blockade in? They should all be dead at the bottom of the Mediterranean.

I believe that is the USS Liberty.

orange
06-24-2010, 02:52 PM
My daughter made a more seaworthy boat in her high school physics class. That was really what they ran the blockade in? They should all be dead at the bottom of the Mediterranean.

No. That's the USS Liberty - AFTER our "greatest ally" was through with it. And the four men in the body bags - those are four of the thirtyfour U.S. sailors our "greatest ally" killed. I'm not sure any of them are at the bottom of the Mediterranean.

Direckshun
06-24-2010, 02:53 PM
Hey if you want to go reread that thread, be my guest. You were going nowhere towards any point that I could see and so I decided not to do your work for you. If you have anything additional to add, be my guest. I'm not doing some inane Q&A where you parse language one way or another until you get to whatever point it is you're trying to make.
Like I said, if you have a point to make, make it. Don't rely on me to guide you.

Just answer the fucking question. Christ.

Using weapons to violently attack the government is armed insurrection.

It's the same fucking thing. You simply don't want to admit it.

That's why you'll say bullshit like this:

Aside from that fact that she never used the words "armed insurrection" and never said "actions over the last year" yes, she did suggest there might be people who might look to use violence as a political tool.

"No, Direckshun, she never said armed insurrection. But she did say there might be people who want to use a political tool against Congress."

What's the difference, blaise?

Why raise that point?

Other than it gets you an out to disagree with me for no reason?

What's the difference?

Explain yourself.

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 02:55 PM
No. That's the USS Liberty - AFTER our "greatest ally" was through with it. And the four men in the body bags - those are four of the thirtyfour U.S. sailors our "greatest ally" killed. I'm not sure any of them are at the bottom of the Mediterranean.

Ahh. I'm unfamiliar with the photos.

patteeu
06-24-2010, 02:56 PM
Where?

I've been actually banned from a few places for being too devil's advocate-y.

That's what your moderation ideas eventually evolve into. You might not intend to take them that far yourself, but there is constant pressure to move in that direction. "Too devil's advocate-y" eventually leads to heated argument which isn't conducive to "civilized discussion".

I used to post on a site called TheologyWeb (http://theologyweb.com) and they were pretty good about allowing divergent ideas (which happens when you get a bunch of athiests and a bunch of devout religious types together) on both theology and politics, but they were significantly more moderated than ChiefsPlanet. By their standards, I was pretty edgy, but I didn't get banned. I just lost interest because religion doesn't interest me much so I was just there for the pure politics and obviously out of step with the mainstream members on that count. I met Nightwish there where he went by a different name before he showed up here and recognized my username.

I've posted at other places, but never for very long. I like it here.

Donger
06-24-2010, 02:57 PM
Some people who might use violence against Congress is armed insurrection?

So, a couple of loonies lose it and that is armed insurrection?

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 02:57 PM
No. That's the USS Liberty - AFTER our "greatest ally" was through with it. And the four men in the body bags - those are four of the thirtyfour U.S. sailors our "greatest ally" killed. I'm not sure any of them are at the bottom of the Mediterranean.

So you're one of those that believe that the attack on the Liberty wasn't just a mistake.

Donger
06-24-2010, 02:58 PM
No. That's the USS Liberty - AFTER our "greatest ally" was through with it. And the four men in the body bags - those are four of the thirtyfour U.S. sailors our "greatest ally" killed. I'm not sure any of them are at the bottom of the Mediterranean.

You're suggesting the attack was intentional and deliberate?

Direckshun
06-24-2010, 02:58 PM
That's what your moderation ideas eventually evolve into. You might not intend to take them that far yourself, but there is constant pressure to move in that direction. "Too devil's advocate-y" eventually leads to heated argument which isn't conducive to "civilized discussion".

'Preciate the pointers.

ForeverChiefs58
06-24-2010, 02:58 PM
http://uncle-semite.com/fourthjuly/images/liberty-rescue-545.png

http://uncle-semite.com/fourthjuly/images/Liberty-body-bags-545.jpg

what is your point in posting that? That was an accident, unlike driving a car rigged with explosives or a suicide bomber. Do you not see the damn difference?

orange
06-24-2010, 02:59 PM
So you're one of those that believe that the attack on the Liberty wasn't just a mistake.

I absolutely don't, that is correct. It was an effort to drag us into the war.



A LOOK OVER MY SHOULDER:
A Life in the Central Intelligence Agency


By Richard Helms with William Hood, Random House 2003
Book available at www.amazon.com and most other book stores.

Richard Helms was the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency from 1966-1973.

An excerpt from Pages 300/301 of the Helms book:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the most disturbing incidents in the six days [war between Israel and the surrounding Arab states] came on the morning of June 8[, 1967] when the Pentagon flashed(urgent top-priority precedence) a message that the U.S.S. Liberty, an unarmed U.S. Navy communications(spy) ship, was under attack in the Mediterranean, and that American fighters had been scrambled to defend the ship....

.... The following urgent reports showed that Israeli jet fighters and torpedo boats had launched the attack. The seriously damaged Liberty remained afloat, with thirty-four dead and more than a hundred wounded members of the crew.

Israeli authorities subsequently apologized for the accident, but few in Washington could believe that the ship had not been identified as an American naval vessel. Later, an interim intelligence memorandum concluded that the attack was a mistake and "not made in malice against the U.S." When additional evidence was available, more doubt was raised....

... This prompted my Deputy, Admiral Rufus Taylor, to write me his view of the incident. "To me, the picture thus far presents the distinct possibility that the Israelis knew that the Liberty might be their target and attacked anyway, either through confusion in Command and Control or through deliberate disregard of instructions on the part of subordinates."

The day after the attack, President Johnson, bristling with irritation, said to me, "The New York Times put that attack on the Liberty on an inside page. It should have been on the front page!"

I had no role in the board of inquiry that followed, or the board's finding that there could be no doubt that the Israeli's knew exactly what they were doing in attacking the Liberty. I have yet to understand why it was felt necessary to attack this ship or who ordered the attack.

Donger
06-24-2010, 03:00 PM
I absolutely don't, that is correct. It was an effort to drag us into the war.

Huh? Why would an Israeli attack on one of our ships drag us into the war? I presume you mean on their side?

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 03:00 PM
I absolutely don't, that is correct. It was an effort to drag us into the war.

On which side? The side that attacked our ship?

Cunning plan.

The Mad Crapper
06-24-2010, 03:01 PM
I absolutely don't, that is correct. It was an effort to drag us into the war.

ROFL

So what did you think of LBJ's "handling" of the Viet Nam war? Was he on the up and up there, Ho Chi Orange?

You friggin' dope.

The Mad Crapper
06-24-2010, 03:03 PM
On which side? The side that attacked our ship?

Cunning plan.

LBJ was far, far, FAR more sophisticated than George Bushitler.

ROFL

orange
06-24-2010, 03:03 PM
Huh? Why would an Israeli attack on one of our ships drag us into the war? I presume you mean on their side?

Because we didn't know it was them. We were about to attack Egypt over it. Or perhaps just a rogue element in the Israeli command.

Why did our "ally" Iraq attack the Stark in the Gulf?

ForeverChiefs58
06-24-2010, 03:06 PM
Nice. I see the link you posted is from uncle-semite.com where they claim "Not Your Father's Anti-Semitism since anti-Semitism is on the rise in Europe, Russia, and the United States and diatribes against Jews are increasingly overt and commonplace, "the elevator music for the Arab world" so its ok.

Your really in the wrong time, and on the wrong side.

The Mad Crapper
06-24-2010, 03:07 PM
I absolutely don't, that is correct. It was an effort to drag us into the war.

Yeah because they were having such a hard time kicking the shit out of the nine or ten (I lost count) arab countries that declared war on them.

ROFL

You friggin' dope.

And you got a law degree???!!!

LMAO

The Mad Crapper
06-24-2010, 03:08 PM
Nice. I see the link you posted is from uncle-semite.com where they claim "Not Your Father's Anti-Semitism since anti-Semitism is on the rise in Europe, Russia, and the United States and diatribes against Jews are increasingly overt and commonplace, "the elevator music for the Arab world" so its ok.

Your really in the wrong time, and on the wrong side.

Orange is a scumbag. He should just pack a suitcase, and take a one way trip to Somalia to join up with Al Qaeda.

AND TAKE THAT PUNK SULLY WITH YOU!!!

ROFL

Donger
06-24-2010, 03:11 PM
Because we didn't know it was them. We were about to attack Egypt over it. Or perhaps just a rogue element in the Israeli command.

That's news to me. I seem to recall that the Liberty's crew knew that it was the Israelis immediately.

Why did our "ally" Iraq attack the Stark in the Gulf?

Friendly fire.

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 03:14 PM
Yeah because they were having such a hard time kicking the shit out of the nine or ten (I lost count) arab countries that declared war on them.

ROFL

You friggin' dope.

And you got a law degree???!!!

LMAO

Well, it must have happened pretty early in the war.

The Mad Crapper
06-24-2010, 03:14 PM
Because we didn't know it was them. We were about to attack Egypt over it. Or perhaps just a rogue element in the Israeli command.

Why did our "ally" Iraq attack the Stark in the Gulf?

:loser:

blaise
06-24-2010, 03:15 PM
Just answer the ****ing question. Christ.

Using weapons to violently attack the government is armed insurrection.

It's the same ****ing thing. You simply don't want to admit it.

That's why you'll say bullshit like this:



"No, Direckshun, she never said armed insurrection. But she did say there might be people who want to use a political tool against Congress."

What's the difference, blaise?

Why raise that point?

Other than it gets you an out to disagree with me for no reason?

What's the difference?

Explain yourself.

Because you asked me if that's what she said, then you added your own words. Therefore I said, "aside from the fact that she never said ___."
Go read the damn thread if you want. I don't need to answer the fucking question. You're the one that needs to get to a fucking point. You asked me is she said something using language in your post that she didn't use. It's not my resposibility to start creating translations. If you want to do that, then fucking do it. Why the hell do you need me to assist you in making a simple point, which you seem incapable of making.
And I don't know why you keep crying that I won't agree with you because it's you. I've probably given you at least 3 postive reps here. If I had some personal inability to agree with you I wouldn't have done that. The only person here I find truly distasteful is orange because he's a freaking toad. It's not a case of me refusing to agree or disagree. It's a case of me refusing to sit there, let you play some ridiculous game of trying to craft the language she used into something you want to hear, and then asking me to sign off on it. Make your point or shut the hell up about it. I made my point, please make yours or stop crying.

The Mad Crapper
06-24-2010, 03:16 PM
Because you asked me if that's what she said, then you added your own words. Therefore I said, "aside from the fact that she never said ___."
Go read the damn thread if you want. I don't need to answer the ****ing question. You're the one that needs to get to a ****ing point. You asked me is she said something using language in your post that she didn't use. It's not my resposibility to start creating translations. If you want to do that, then ****ing do it. Why the hell do you need me to assist you in making a simple point, which you seem incapable of making.
And I don't know why you keep crying that I won't agree with you because it's you. I've probably given you at least 3 postive reps here. If I had some personal inability to agree with you I wouldn't have done that. The only person here I find truly distasteful is orange because he's a freaking toad. It's not a case of me refusing to agree or disagree. It's a case of me refusing to sit there, let you play some ridiculous game of trying to craft the language she used into something you want to hear, and then asking me to sign off on it. Make your point or shut the hell up about it. I made my point, please make yours or stop crying.

ROFL

Holy shit everybody has had it with the moonbats!!!

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 03:19 PM
The only person here I find truly distasteful is orange because he's a freaking toad.

But he's an intelligent toad with a pretty good sense of humor and he likes the Broncos. I find those qualities endearing in a freaking toad.

ForeverChiefs58
06-24-2010, 03:20 PM
orange doesn't know the difference between accidental friendly fire, and actually really fighting someone. ROFL
Isreal didn't need any extra help like you suggest with that war.
You got your info from that antisemetic website you posted. I saw they say the same BS.
Besides what you think, the big bad zionist jews aren't to blame for all your problems asshole.

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 03:22 PM
Isreal didn't need any extra help like you suggest with that war.

Are you kidding? It could have been over in five days with our help.

orange
06-24-2010, 03:22 PM
That's news to me. I seem to recall that the Liberty's crew knew that it was the Israelis immediately.

The press release for the BBC documentary film Dead in the Water states that new recorded and other evidence suggests the attack was a "daring ploy by Israel to fake an Eygptian attack" to give America a reason to enter the war against Egypt. Convinced that that attack was real, President of the United States Lyndon B. Johnson launched nuclear-armed planes targeted against Cairo from a U.S. aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean. The planes were recalled only just in time, when it was clear the Liberty had not sunk and that Israel had carried out the attack. An information source for the aircraft being nuclear-armed, James Ennes, later stated that he was probably wrong in his original book. According to Ennes, the planes were not nuclear-armed, but most likely armed with Bullpup missiles.[67] The video also provides hearsay evidence of a covert alliance of U.S. and Israel intelligence agencies.[68]

orange
06-24-2010, 03:25 PM
Well, it must have happened pretty early in the war.

Since things were going so well, why did they need to sink the ship anyway?

Maybe because they didn't know they were going to win so quickly?

Direckshun
06-24-2010, 03:25 PM
Because you asked me if that's what she said, then you added your own words. Therefore I said, "aside from the fact that she never said ___."
Go read the damn thread if you want. I don't need to answer the ****ing question. You're the one that needs to get to a ****ing point. You asked me is she said something using language in your post that she didn't use. It's not my resposibility to start creating translations. If you want to do that, then ****ing do it. Why the hell do you need me to assist you in making a simple point, which you seem incapable of making.

If two phrases mean the exact same thing -- then that's what she said.

But you won't admit that the two phrases mean the exact same thing. So you get stuck in this masturbatory nonsense of uhhh she didn't say "six", she said "half a dozen." And then you pout when I tease you when you won't own up to it.

The fact is, you refuse to acknowledge that in the context of our conversation, those two phrases are exactly the same. Probably because it's a Big Bad Lib saying it.

Grow up.

ForeverChiefs58
06-24-2010, 03:26 PM
Are you kidding? It could have been over in five days with our help.

I meant, there was no need, not like they were losing so bad that they needed it.

The Mad Crapper
06-24-2010, 03:26 PM
The press release for the BBC documentary film Dead in the Water states that new recorded and other evidence suggests the attack was a "daring ploy by Israel to fake an Eygptian attack" to give America a reason to enter the war against Egypt. Convinced that that attack was real, President of the United States Lyndon B. Johnson launched nuclear-armed planes targeted against Cairo from a U.S. aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean. The planes were recalled only just in time, when it was clear the Liberty had not sunk and that Israel had carried out the attack. An information source for the aircraft being nuclear-armed, James Ennes, later stated that he was probably wrong in his original book. According to Ennes, the planes were not nuclear-armed, but most likely armed with Bullpup missiles.[67] The video also provides hearsay evidence of a covert alliance of U.S. and Israel intelligence agencies.[68]

Why didn't the ship sink?

How long did the Israeli's strafe it?

Don't answer this Orange, I have no desire to humiliate your pathetic, communist ass any further.

Donger
06-24-2010, 03:27 PM
The press release for the BBC documentary film Dead in the Water states that new recorded and other evidence suggests the attack was a "daring ploy by Israel to fake an Eygptian attack" to give America a reason to enter the war against Egypt. Convinced that that attack was real, President of the United States Lyndon B. Johnson launched nuclear-armed planes targeted against Cairo from a U.S. aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean. The planes were recalled only just in time, when it was clear the Liberty had not sunk and that Israel had carried out the attack. An information source for the aircraft being nuclear-armed, James Ennes, later stated that he was probably wrong in his original book. According to Ennes, the planes were not nuclear-armed, but most likely armed with Bullpup missiles.[67] The video also provides hearsay evidence of a covert alliance of U.S. and Israel intelligence agencies.[68]

:shake:

The Liberty's captain, Commander McGonagle, was wounded during the air attack, but he remained in command on the ship's bridge. He testified, at the Naval Court of Inquiry, that "about midway during the [air] attack Ensign Lucas was noted on the bridge and at that time he became my assistant and assisted me in every way possible." Further, he testified that during "the latter moments of the air attack, it was noted that three high speed boats were approaching the ship from the northeast on a relative bearing of approximately 135 [degrees] at a distance of about 15 [nautical] miles. The ship at the time was still on [westward] course 283 [degrees] true, speed unknown, but believed to be in excess of five knots." McGonagle "believed that the time of initial sighting of the torpedo boats ... was about 1420" (2:20 PM local time). He testified that the "boats appeared to be in a wedge type formation with the center boat the lead point of the wedge. Estimated speed of the boats was about 27 to 30 knots (56 km/h)," and that it "appeared that they were approaching the ship in a torpedo launch attitude." McGonagle "told a man from the bridge ... to proceed to [machine gun] mount 51 and take the boats under fire." He then testified: "When the boats reached an approximate range of 2,000 yards, the center boat of the formation was signaling to us. Also, at this range, it appeared that they were flying an Israeli flag." It was not possible to "read the signals from the center torpedo boat because of the intermittent blocking of view by smoke and flames." McGonagle "realized that there was a possibility of the aircraft having been Israeli and the attack had been conducted in error." So, he "yelled to [the man in] machine gun [mount] 51 to tell him to hold fire." But the man "fired a short burst at the boats before he was able to understand" McGonagle's order

The Mad Crapper
06-24-2010, 03:28 PM
Are you kidding? It could have been over in five days with our help.

Shit, while we're at it, how long woud have the Falklands War lasted with our help?

Direckshun
06-24-2010, 03:28 PM
100.

FAIL

The Mad Crapper
06-24-2010, 03:28 PM
FAIL

TERRY

orange
06-24-2010, 03:29 PM
An information source for the aircraft being nuclear-armed, James Ennes, later stated that he was probably wrong in his original book. According to Ennes, the planes were not nuclear-armed, but most likely armed with Bullpup missiles.[67] The video also provides hearsay evidence of a covert alliance of U.S. and Israel intelligence agencies.[68]

He was Officer of the Deck on the Liberty. This is his site:

USS Liberty Memorial


On the Israeli side, the group of pro-Israel, anti-American critics of our story, while small, persists in launching loud, vicious ad hominem attacks on anyone who attempts to discuss the deliberateness of the attack. These anti-American apologists refuse to discuss the facts of the case. Instead, they rely on propaganda and charge anyone who questions the Israeli position with being antiSemitic.

http://www.gtr5.com/

Just another anti-American anti-Semitic terrorist lover, clearly.

The Mad Crapper
06-24-2010, 03:30 PM
He was Officer of the Deck on the Liberty. This is his site:


On the Israeli side, the group of pro-Israel, anti-American critics of our story, while small, persists in launching loud, vicious ad hominem attacks on anyone who attempts to discuss the deliberateness of the attack. These anti-American apologists refuse to discuss the facts of the case. Instead, they rely on propaganda and charge anyone who questions the Israeli position with being antiSemitic.

http://www.gtr5.com/


Just another anti-American anti-Semitic terrorist lover.

Just admit it Orange---

YOu wanted to suck Yassir Arafat off before he died.

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 03:35 PM
He was Officer of the Deck on the Liberty. This is his site:

USS Liberty Memorial


On the Israeli side, the group of pro-Israel, anti-American critics of our story, while small, persists in launching loud, vicious ad hominem attacks on anyone who attempts to discuss the deliberateness of the attack. These anti-American apologists refuse to discuss the facts of the case. Instead, they rely on propaganda and charge anyone who questions the Israeli position with being antiSemitic.

http://www.gtr5.com/

Just another anti-American anti-Semitic terrorist lover, clearly.

We may be anti-Ennes, but Ennes is anti-American. "America" officially calls it a mistake. If he thinks "America" is lying then I'm sure he'd have no problem with being called anti-American.

ForeverChiefs58
06-24-2010, 03:39 PM
hey orange why don't you just man up and say how you really feel about jews? Don't be such a chickenshit coward your whole life. Stand up for how you feel chicken.
Should change your name to orangechicken.

patteeu
06-24-2010, 03:45 PM
hey orange why don't you just man up and say how you really feel about jews? Don't be such a chickenshit coward your whole life. Stand up for how you feel chicken.
Should change your name to orangechicken.

How about just "Yellow"? :)

Donger
06-24-2010, 03:46 PM
He was Officer of the Deck on the Liberty. This is his site:

USS Liberty Memorial


On the Israeli side, the group of pro-Israel, anti-American critics of our story, while small, persists in launching loud, vicious ad hominem attacks on anyone who attempts to discuss the deliberateness of the attack. These anti-American apologists refuse to discuss the facts of the case. Instead, they rely on propaganda and charge anyone who questions the Israeli position with being antiSemitic.

http://www.gtr5.com/

Just another anti-American anti-Semitic terrorist lover, clearly.

I was just reading that the gunboats that attacked were flying the Star of David. I would have thought the Jews wouldn't have been so careless.

Also, why did the Israelis immediately acknowledge the attack after it happened?

ForeverChiefs58
06-24-2010, 03:48 PM
I was just reading that the gunboats that attacked were flying the Star of David. I would have thought the Jews wouldn't have been so careless.

Also, why did the Israelis immediately acknowledge the attack after it happened?


oh snap!

orange
06-24-2010, 03:49 PM
We may be anti-Ennes, but Ennes is anti-American. "America" officially calls it a mistake. If he thinks "America" is lying then I'm sure he'd have no problem with being called anti-American.

Findings of the Independent Commission of Inquiry
into the Israeli Attack on USS Liberty,
the Recall of Military Rescue Support Aircraft
while the Ship was Under Attack, and the
Subsequent Cover-up by the United States Government



CAPITOL HILL, WASHINGTON, D.C.
OCTOBER 22, 2003

ADMIRAL THOMAS H. MOORER, UNITED STATES NAVY, (RET.)
FORMER CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF

GENERAL RAYMOND G. DAVIS, UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS, (MOH)*
FORMER ASSISTANT COMMANDANT OF THE MARINE CORPS

REAR ADMIRAL MERLIN STARING, UNITED STATES NAVY, (RET.)
FORMER JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL OF THE NAVY HH

AMBASSADOR JAMES AKINS, (RET.)
FORMER UNITED STATES AMBASSADOR TO SAUDI ARABIA


Chief Attorney of the 1967 Court of Inquiry
Captain Boston's Affidavit
Commonly Asked Questions about USS Liberty
Who are the Commissioners of this Independent Investigation?
We, the undersigned, having undertaken an independent investigation of Israel�s attack on USS Liberty, including eyewitness testimony from surviving crewmembers, a review of naval and other official records, an examination of official statements by the Israeli and American governments, a study of the conclusions of all previous official inquiries, and a consideration of important new evidence and recent statements from individuals having direct knowledge of the attack or the cover up, hereby find the following: **

1. That on June 8, 1967, after eight hours of aerial surveillance, Israel launched a two-hour air and naval attack against USS Liberty, the world�s most sophisticated intelligence ship, inflicting 34 dead and 172 wounded American servicemen (a casualty rate of seventy percent, in a crew of 294);

2. That the Israeli air attack lasted approximately 25 minutes, during which time unmarked Israeli aircraft dropped napalm canisters on USS Liberty's bridge, and fired 30mm cannons and rockets into our ship, causing 821 holes, more than 100 of which were rocket-size; survivors estimate 30 or more sorties were flown over the ship by a minimum of 12 attacking Israeli planes which were jamming all five American emergency radio channels;

3. That the torpedo boat attack involved not only the firing of torpedoes, but the machine-gunning of Liberty�s firefighters and stretcher-bearers as they struggled to save their ship and crew; the Israeli torpedo boats later returned to machine-gun at close range three of the Liberty�s life rafts that had been lowered into the water by survivors to rescue the most seriously wounded;

4. That there is compelling evidence that Israel�s attack was a deliberate attempt to destroy an American ship and kill her entire crew; evidence of such intent is supported by statements from Secretary of State Dean Rusk, Undersecretary of State George Ball, former CIA director Richard Helms, former NSA directors Lieutenant General William Odom, USA (Ret.), Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, USN (Ret.), and Marshal Carter; former NSA deputy directors Oliver Kirby and Major General John Morrison, USAF (Ret.); and former Ambassador Dwight Porter, U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon in 1967;

5. That in attacking USS Liberty, Israel committed acts of murder against American servicemen and an act of war against the United States;

6. That fearing conflict with Israel, the White House deliberately prevented the U.S. Navy from coming to the defense of USS Liberty by recalling Sixth Fleet military rescue support while the ship was under attack; evidence of the recall of rescue aircraft is supported by statements of Captain Joe Tully, Commanding Officer of the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga, and Rear Admiral Lawrence Geis, the Sixth Fleet carrier division commander, at the time of the attack; never before in American naval history has a rescue mission been cancelled when an American ship was under attack;

7. That although Liberty was saved from almost certain destruction through the heroic efforts of the ship�s Captain, William L. McGonagle (MOH), and his brave crew, surviving crewmembers were later threatened with �court-martial, imprisonment or worse� if they exposed the truth; and were abandoned by their own government;

8. That due to the influence of Israel�s powerful supporters in the United States, the White House deliberately covered up the facts of this attack from the American people;

9. That due to continuing pressure by the pro-Israel lobby in the United States, this attack remains the only serious naval incident that has never been thoroughly investigated by Congress; to this day, no surviving crewmember has been permitted to officially and publicly testify about the attack;

10. That there has been an official cover-up without precedent in American naval history; the existence of such a cover-up is now supported by statements of Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, USN (Ret.), former Judge Advocate General of the Navy; and Captain Ward Boston, USN, (Ret.), the chief counsel to the Navy�s 1967 Court of Inquiry of Liberty attack;

11. That the truth about Israel�s attack and subsequent White House cover-up continues to be officially concealed from the American people to the present day and is a national disgrace;

12. That a danger to our national security exists whenever our elected officials are willing to subordinate American interests to those of any foreign nation, and specifically are unwilling to challenge Israel�s interests when they conflict with American interests; this policy, evidenced by the failure to defend USS Liberty and the subsequent official cover-up of the Israeli attack, endangers the safety of Americans and the security of the United States.

WHEREUPON, we, the undersigned, in order to fulfill our duty to the brave crew of USS Liberty and to all Americans who are asked to serve in our Armed Forces, hereby call upon the Department of the Navy, the Congress of the United States and the American people to immediately take the following actions:

FIRST: That a new Court of Inquiry be convened by the Department of the Navy, operating with Congressional oversight, to take public testimony from surviving crewmembers; and to thoroughly investigate the circumstances of the attack on the USS Liberty, with full cooperation from the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency and the military intelligence services, and to determine Israel�s possible motive in launching said attack on a U.S. naval vessel;

SECOND: That every appropriate committee of the Congress of the United States investigate the actions of the White House and Defense Department that prevented the rescue of the USS Liberty, thereafter threatened her surviving officers and men if they exposed the truth, and covered up the true circumstances of the attack from the American people; and

THIRD: That the eighth day of June of every year be proclaimed to be hereafter known as

USS LIBERTY REMEMBRANCE DAY, in order to commemorate USS Liberty�s heroic crew; and to educate the American people of the danger to our national security inherent in any passionate attachment of our elected officials for any foreign nation.

We, the undersigned, hereby affix our hands and seals, this 22nd day of October, 2003.

Thomas H. Moorer
Former Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff


General of Marines Raymond G. Davis, USMC, MOH*


Merlin Staring
Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, USN, Ret.,
Former Judge Advocate General of the Navy,


James Akins
Ambassador James Akins, Ret.,
Former United States Ambassador to Saudi Arabia,


*IN MEMORIAM: General of Marines Raymond G. Davis, one of America�s most decorated military heroes (including the Congressional Medal of Honor), Vice Chairman of this panel and one of the principal members of this Independent Commission of Inquiry, passed away in Conyers, Georgia, on September 3, 2003.

** [1] Captain Ward Boston, USN, JAGC, Ret, the chief Navy attorney for the 1967 U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry into the Israeli attack, has recently come forward to repudiate the Court�s conclusion that the attack was �a case of mistaken identity�. Captain Boston has revealed that all available evidence, in fact, pointed in exactly the opposite direction � that it was a deliberate attack on a clearly identified American ship. In his affidavit dated October 9, 2003, Captain Boston states, �Admiral Kidd and I believed with certainty that this attack, which killed 34 American sailors and injured 172 others, was a deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew. I am certain that the Israeli pilots that undertook the attack, as well as their superiors who had ordered the attack, were aware that the ship was American.� [See Exhibit attached]. Captain Boston stated that he has personal knowledge that Admiral Kidd found the attack to be �a case of mistaken identity� in 1967 only because he was under direct orders to do so by Defense Secretary McNamara and President Johnson.

[2] Lieutenant Commander David E. Lewis, USS Liberty�s chief intelligence officer (who was severely wounded in the attack) has reported a conversation with Admiral Lawrence R. Geis, the Sixth Fleet carrier division commander, who visited Lewis after he had been medically evacuated by helicopter to the aircraft carrier USS America. According to Lewis, �He (Admiral Geis) said that he wanted somebody to know that we weren�t forgotten�attempts HAD been made to come to our assistance. He said that he had launched a flight of aircraft to come to our assistance, and he had then called Washington. Secretary McNamara came on the line and ordered the recall of the aircraft, which he did. Concurrently he said that since he suspected that they were afraid that there might have been nuclear weapons on board, he reconfigured another flight of aircraft - strictly conventional weaponry - and re-launched it. After the second launch, he again called Washington to let them know what was going on. Again, Secretary McNamara ordered the aircraft recalled. Not understanding why, he requested confirmation of the order; and the next higher in command came on to confirm that�President Johnson...with the instructions that the aircraft were to be returned, that he would not have his allies embarrassed, he didn�t care who was killed or what was done to the ship�words to that effect. With that, Admiral Geis swore me to secrecy for his lifetime. I had been silent up until I found out from Admiral Moorer that Admiral Geis had passed away� [transcript from NBC�s Liberty Story, aired on national television 1/27/92]. This statement by Commander Lewis has recently been corroborated by Tony Hart, a Navy communications technician stationed at the U.S. Navy Base in Morocco in June, 1967. Mr. Hart connected the telephone conversation between Secretary McNamara and Admiral Geis and stayed on the line to keep them connected. Hart has been recorded as saying that he overheard Admiral Geis refusing McNamara�s order to recall the Sixth Fleet rescue aircraft while the ship was under attack. Mr.Hart reported that McNamara responded,�we are not going to war over a bunch of dead sailors.�

[3] New evidence of intercepted radio communications between attacking Israeli pilots and the Israeli War Room, recorded by a U.S. Navy EC-121 spy plane, in which the Israeli pilots report seeing Liberty�s American flag flying, has been collected by investigative author James Bamford - for 9 years the Washington Investigative Producer for ABC�s World News Tonight with Peter Jennings (and author of Body of Secrets, which includes a chapter entitled Blood about the attack on USS Liberty). A similar radio message was intercepted by the EC-121 from the Israeli motor torpedo boats. This corroborates statements by surviving crewmembers, by Ambassador Dwight Porter, and by senior National Security Agency officials concerning NSA intercepts of Israeli pilot communications identifying the ship as American.

If he thinks "America" is lying then I'm sure he'd have no problem with being called anti-American.

I suspect you're wrong about that. I've never heard of any veteran who would accept that label.

Donger
06-24-2010, 03:50 PM
oh snap!

No wait. Conspiracy theorists have an answer for everything.

orange
06-24-2010, 03:51 PM
I was just reading that the gunboats that attacked were flying the Star of David. I would have thought the Jews wouldn't have been so careless.

Also, why did the Israelis immediately acknowledge the attack after it happened?

They expected to SINK the ship. They acknowledged - HOURS AFTER THE SECOND ATTACK - when it was clear they had failed.

They were jamming the Liberty's communications at the time. You knew that, didn't you?

vailpass
06-24-2010, 03:52 PM
If the jews wanted a ship sunk, that ship would be sunk.

ForeverChiefs58
06-24-2010, 03:52 PM
I was just reading that the gunboats that attacked were flying the Star of David. I would have thought the Jews wouldn't have been so careless.

Also, why did the Israelis immediately acknowledge the attack after it happened?

simple.
orange will say this was all part of their clever zionist plan. then, the americans would think egypt was just real good at disguising themselves as isrealis.

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 03:54 PM
I suspect you're wrong about that. I've never heard of any veteran who would accept that label.

Then I suspect that he's in denial.

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 03:56 PM
If the jews wanted a ship sunk, that ship would be sunk.

They defeated 10 nations' armed forces and the PLO allied against them, but they met their match in a research vessel.

Donger
06-24-2010, 03:57 PM
They expected to SINK the ship. They acknowledged - HOURS AFTER THE SECOND ATTACK - when it was clear they had failed.

Oh, okay. And what about the gunboats flying the Star of David? Shouldn't they have taken those down, or maybe flown Egyptian flags?

They were jamming the Liberty's communications at the time. You knew that, didn't you?

No, I didn't. I thought Liberty was a ELINT boat, no?

Direckshun
06-24-2010, 03:58 PM
We may be anti-Ennes, but Ennes is anti-American. "America" officially calls it a mistake. If he thinks "America" is lying then I'm sure he'd have no problem with being called anti-American.

I may be misreading this, but I love how any criticism of the great and flawless America leads to one being anti-American.

Guess what: America lies. Our Presidents lie, our Pentagon lies, our politicians lie, our international businesses lie. We lie. Because we happen to be the best country on this poor earth doesn't mean we're incapable of bad things.

Calling an actual lie a lie isn't pro- or anti-American. It's logical. Why we have to strap patriotism to logic is beyond me...

orange
06-24-2010, 04:00 PM
Oh, okay. And what about the gunboats flying the Star of David? Shouldn't they have taken those down, or maybe flown Egyptian flags?



No, I didn't. I thought Liberty was a ELINT boat, no?

Here's a detailed report filed with the Secretary of the Army. You could have found it at that website if you had looked.

I WASN'T there. But the actual crew was. Take it up with them.

http://www.gtr5.com/evidence/warcrimes.pdf


During the air attack, USS Liberty’s crew had difficulty contacting Sixth Fleet to request
assistance due to intense communications jamming 18
The initial targets on the ship were the command bridge, communications antennas,
and the four .50 caliber machine guns, placed on the ship to repel boarders.19

...

Survivors report that the torpedo boat crews swept the decks of USS Liberty with
continuous machine gun fire, targeting communications equipment and any crewmembers
who ventured above decks.22

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 04:03 PM
I may be misreading this,

You are. You're thinking about a point you want to make about patriotism and that has made you overlook the literal meaning of the words.

but I love how any criticism of the great and flawless America leads to one being anti-American.

Guess what: America lies. Our Presidents lie, our Pentagon lies, our politicians lie, our international businesses lie. We lie. Because we happen to be the best country on this poor earth doesn't mean we're incapable of bad things.

Calling an actual lie a lie isn't pro- or anti-American. It's logical. Why we have to strap patriotism to logic is beyond me...

Interesting point. You should make it if anyone ever brings up the subject.

Donger
06-24-2010, 04:07 PM
Here's a detailed report filed with the Secretary of the Army. You could have found it at that website if you had looked.

I WASN'T there. But the actual crew was. Take it up with them.

http://www.gtr5.com/evidence/warcrimes.pdf


During the air attack, USS Liberty’s crew had difficulty contacting Sixth Fleet to request
assistance due to intense communications jamming 18
The initial targets on the ship were the command bridge, communications antennas,
and the four .50 caliber machine guns, placed on the ship to repel boarders.19

...

Survivors report that the torpedo boat crews swept the decks of USS Liberty with
continuous machine gun fire, targeting communications equipment and any crewmembers
who ventured above decks.22

I can understand their anger. They WERE attacked by an ally. I'd be pissed, too. The question is obviously whether or not the attack was deliberate. Sorry, but from every non-biased source I've read, the only reasonable conclusion was that it was not.

blaise
06-24-2010, 04:11 PM
If two phrases mean the exact same thing -- then that's what she said.

But you won't admit that the two phrases mean the exact same thing. So you get stuck in this masturbatory nonsense of uhhh she didn't say "six", she said "half a dozen." And then you pout when I tease you when you won't own up to it.

The fact is, you refuse to acknowledge that in the context of our conversation, those two phrases are exactly the same. Probably because it's a Big Bad Lib saying it.

Grow up.

I don't see why I have to. Grow up? You're the one that wants me to hold your hand to make your piont. As far as the Big Bad Lib thing, I'd wager I'm less partisan than you. You're notoriosly one sided in your view of politics here, so I'm not sure where you come off with that stuff.

Make your point or stop whining about it in different threads.

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 04:11 PM
Here's a detailed report filed with the Secretary of the Army. You could have found it at that website if you had looked.

I WASN'T there. But the actual crew was. Take it up with them.

http://www.gtr5.com/evidence/warcrimes.pdf


During the air attack, USS Liberty’s crew had difficulty contacting Sixth Fleet to request
assistance due to intense communications jamming 18
The initial targets on the ship were the command bridge, communications antennas,
and the four .50 caliber machine guns, placed on the ship to repel boarders.19

...

Survivors report that the torpedo boat crews swept the decks of USS Liberty with
continuous machine gun fire, targeting communications equipment and any crewmembers
who ventured above decks.22

None of that is damning at all to the official position. Are you suggesting that they tipped their hand in some way by trying to damage the ship they were attacking? What the heck are you saying?

orange
06-24-2010, 04:15 PM
None of that is damning at all to the official position. Are you suggesting that they tipped their hand in some way by trying to damage the ship they were attacking? What the heck are you saying?

I'm saying - in answer to THIS:


I absolutely don't, that is correct. It was an effort to drag us into the war.

On which side? The side that attacked our ship?

Cunning plan.


... that they didn't expect there to be any survivors to say who attacked them. And that they didn't expect there to be any distress calls sent out because of the jamming... jamming that was utterly unnecessary and absurd if they actually believed it was an Egyptian supply ship.

Donger
06-24-2010, 04:23 PM
I'm saying - in answer to THIS:





... that they didn't expect there to be any survivors to say who attacked them. And that they didn't expect there to be any distress calls sent out because of the jamming... jamming that was utterly unnecessary and absurd if they actually believed it was an Egyptian supply ship.

Uhuh:

When the commander of torpedo boats could see the Liberty, he immediately realized the ship was not a destroyer or any type of warship capable of 30 knots (56 km/h) speed. He immediately ordered the attack stopped pending better identification "although this was difficult due to the billowing clouds of smoke that enveloped the vessel; only her bow, part of her bridge and the tip of her mast could be discerned." The commander attempted to signal the ship but got a reply asking him to identify himself. He also observed gun fire from the ship. He consulted an Israeli identification guide to Arab fleets and concluded the ship was the Egyptian supply ship El Quseir. Another of his boat captains reached the same conclusion.[33] Based on that identification, the gun fire and what he considered an evasive response to his signal, the commander ordered the attack to proceed.(ibid. p. 17)

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 04:23 PM
I'm saying - in answer to THIS:





... that they didn't expect there to be any survivors to say who attacked them. And that they didn't expect there to be any distress calls sent out because of the jamming... jamming that was utterly unnecessary and absurd if they actually believed it was an Egyptian supply ship.

They shouldn't have expected there to be any survivors whether it was an evil plan to involve the U.S. or just an attempt to sink a unfriendly warship.

Where did you get the idea that they thought they were attacking an Egyptian supply ship?

EDIT: Well, Donger just answered that question. But that was after the attack had begun.

ForeverChiefs58
06-24-2010, 04:24 PM
I may be misreading this, but I love how any criticism of the great and flawless America leads to one being anti-American.

Guess what: America lies. Our Presidents lie, our Pentagon lies, our politicians lie, our international businesses lie. We lie. Because we happen to be the best country on this poor earth doesn't mean we're incapable of bad things.

Calling an actual lie a lie isn't pro- or anti-American. It's logical. Why we have to strap patriotism to logic is beyond me...

everyone lies. got it. so even according to your own logic, our enemies lie too.
What makes it anti american is when you are always agianst the US. No matter the instance, we know where you stand. Face it, you are anti american and anti isreal.

orange
06-24-2010, 04:26 PM
Where did you get the idea that they thought they were attacking an Egyptian supply ship?

Look just above you. That UNBELIEVABLE NONSENSE that you honestly affirmed is ridiculous is the official whitewash!!!

ROFL

He consulted an Israeli identification guide to Arab fleets and concluded the ship was the Egyptian supply ship El Quseir. Another of his boat captains reached the same conclusion.

orange
06-24-2010, 04:33 PM
EDIT: Well, Donger just answered that question. But that was after the attack had begun.

After an "attack had begun" - on a ship they hadn't identified? :eek:

They were just out attacking random ships?

Donger
06-24-2010, 04:35 PM
After an "attack had begun" - on a ship they hadn't identified? :eek:

They were just out attacking random ships?

It seems that they misidentified it from the beginning. It happens.

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 04:41 PM
After an "attack had begun" - on a ship they hadn't identified? :eek:

They were just out attacking random ships?

It seems that they misidentified it from the beginning. It happens.

And Donger answered that as well.

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 04:43 PM
Look just above you. That UNBELIEVABLE NONSENSE that you honestly affirmed is ridiculous is the official whitewash!!!

ROFL

I "honestly affirmed" it to be ridiculous? When? Where?

I asked you where you got the information.

Direckshun
06-24-2010, 04:44 PM
everyone lies. got it. so even according to your own logic, our enemies lie too.
What makes it anti american is when you are always agianst the US. No matter the instance, we know where you stand. Face it, you are anti american and anti isreal.

Mmmmkay.

orange
06-24-2010, 04:46 PM
And Donger answered that as well.

No, Donger quoted the coverup. He didn't quote the counterpoint.

Go to that website and read for yourself the immense amount of information that rebuts the official story.

Or read the pdf.

They have a lot more details than I. And from real sources... witnesses... survivors... investigators.

Not chumps posting on a discussion forum who don't know the simplest facts, like Israel fought a war in Lebanon in 2006.

http://www.gtr5.com/
http://www.gtr5.com/evidence/warcrimes.pdf

vailpass
06-24-2010, 04:46 PM
Israel eases the blockade.
Palestinian nut job detonates bomb in crowded jew marketplace or lobs missile into synagogue or kidnaps prominent Israeli.
Days of sustained jew bombardment on ground and in air ensues.
Bombardment stops, blockade resumed even stricter then before.

Repeat.

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 04:47 PM
No, Donger quoted the coverup.

Also known as the official truth.

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 04:49 PM
Go to that website and read for yourself the immense amount of information that rebuts the official story.

If I ever find myself needing to get pissed off at Israel in 1967 I'll do just that.

vailpass
06-24-2010, 04:50 PM
If I ever find myself needing to get pissed off at Israel in 1967 I'll do just that.

:D

orange
06-24-2010, 04:50 PM
I may be misreading this, but I love how any criticism of the great and flawless America leads to one being anti-American.

Guess what: America lies. Our Presidents lie, our Pentagon lies, our politicians lie, our international businesses lie. We lie. Because we happen to be the best country on this poor earth doesn't mean we're incapable of bad things.

Calling an actual lie a lie isn't pro- or anti-American. It's logical. Why we have to strap patriotism to logic is beyond me...


Interesting point. You should make it if anyone ever brings up the subject.


Someone just did.

Also known as the official truth.

Direckshun
06-24-2010, 04:52 PM
Someone just did.

I kinda saw that too.

I'm just going to let my post sit there and register with whomever whenever they deem it appropriate.

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 04:53 PM
Someone just did.

You missed the point as well then.

Exposing America's official truth is by definition anti-American. The crew members of the Liberty who wish to expose their own real truth should wear the label as a badge of honor.

Direckshun
06-24-2010, 04:54 PM
Exposing America's official truth is by definition anti-American.

Wha...?

Explain yourself.

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 04:55 PM
Or they could shut the fuck up because being there doesn't necessarily expose one to the truth.

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 04:57 PM
Wha...?

Explain yourself.

America says it's telling the truth. Sailor says America is lying. Sailor is in opposition to America. Opposition to America is anti-American.

Taco: Break out a cartoon for this child.

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 04:59 PM
Taco doesn't have anything to do with this, but he took a lot of shit for posting an animated film recently.

Donger
06-24-2010, 05:02 PM
No, Donger quoted the coverup. He didn't quote the counterpoint.

Go to that website and read for yourself the immense amount of information that rebuts the official story.

Or read the pdf.

They have a lot more details than I. And from real sources... witnesses... survivors... investigators.

Not chumps posting on a discussion forum who don't know the simplest facts, like Israel fought a war in Lebanon in 2006.

http://www.gtr5.com/
http://www.gtr5.com/evidence/warcrimes.pdf

Yes, and 9/11 was an "inside job."

orange
06-24-2010, 05:04 PM
Yes, and 9/11 was an "inside job."

There are many, many ridiculous conspiracy theories. This does not mean that there are no conspiracies.

Look at the evidence.

There's no comparison to the "truthers."

Donger
06-24-2010, 05:08 PM
There are many, many ridiculous conspiracy theories. This does not mean that there are no conspiracies.

Look at the evidence.

There's no comparison to the "truthers."

I did read that website. It happened and it sucked, but I see nothing that would lead any reasonable person to conclude that Israel attacked the Liberty knowing she was a US vessel.

None.

Direckshun
06-24-2010, 05:23 PM
America says it's telling the truth. Sailor says America is lying. Sailor is in opposition to America.

Logical fallacy, there.

Sailor isn't in opposition to America. He's in opposition to what America's saying on that issue.

"America" is so much more than any one issue. To say you're anti-all-of-it simply because you disagree on a single issue is fallacious.

ForeverChiefs58
06-24-2010, 05:28 PM
I did read that website. It happened and it sucked, but I see nothing that would lead any reasonable person to conclude that Israel attacked the Liberty knowing she was a US vessel.
None.

It wasn't like the Beirut barracks bombing that killed 300 american servicemen. That was intentional. That part is no doubt.

ClevelandBronco
06-24-2010, 05:45 PM
Logical fallacy, there.

Sailor isn't in opposition to America. He's in opposition to what America's saying on that issue.

"America" is so much more than any one issue. To say you're anti-all-of-it simply because you disagree on a single issue is fallacious.

There's no point in discussing it further. We disagree.

I will say that I'm anti-American on a daily basis.

The Mad Crapper
06-24-2010, 05:55 PM
There are many, many ridiculous conspiracy theories. This does not mean that there are no conspiracies.

Look at the evidence.

There's no comparison to the "truthers."


I used to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you know what? The USS Liberty ALWAYS brings the moonbat into the light.

YOu have recited EVERY SINGLE NOAM CHOMSKY platitude in this thread.

Direckshun
06-24-2010, 06:13 PM
There's no point in discussing it further. We disagree.

I will say that I'm anti-American on a daily basis.

If I were you, I wouldn't discuss it any further either, because you're committing a huge logical error and you don't want to own up to it.

I disagree with my mother from time to time, depending on the issue. She's lied, like everybody does. That doesn't mean that when I say she's lied on some issue, I am being anti-Mom. That's silly.

You just want to attach the most heated pejorative possible to the otherwise perfectly ordinary act of doubting the honesty of your government, and get away with it.

That's really, really illogical. And pretty stupid.

The Mad Crapper
06-24-2010, 06:41 PM
If I were you, I wouldn't discuss it any further either, because you're committing a huge logical error and you don't want to own up to it.

I disagree with my mother from time to time, depending on the issue. She's lied, like everybody does. That doesn't mean that when I say she's lied on some issue, I am being anti-Mom. That's silly.

You just want to attach the most heated pejorative possible to the otherwise perfectly ordinary act of doubting the honesty of your government, and get away with it.

That's really, really illogical. And pretty stupid.

You are a disgrace, you know that? I am truly disgusted by your presence.

patteeu
06-25-2010, 06:51 AM
I'm saying - in answer to THIS:





... that they didn't expect there to be any survivors to say who attacked them. And that they didn't expect there to be any distress calls sent out because of the jamming... jamming that was utterly unnecessary and absurd if they actually believed it was an Egyptian supply ship.

Why wouldn't they jam the communications of an Egyptian supply ship they were attacking? In all likelihood, it may be unnecessary, but it doesn't hurt anything and there's at least a small chance that it could be beneficial. The benefit outweighs the cost.

The Mad Crapper
06-25-2010, 07:41 AM
hey orange why don't you just man up and say how you really feel about jews? Don't be such a chickenshit coward your whole life. Stand up for how you feel chicken.
Should change your name to orangechicken.

It's part of being a moonbat:

Israel = bad
Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Aksa, Al Qaeda = good

The Mad Crapper
06-25-2010, 07:42 AM
If I ever find myself needing to get pissed off at Israel in 1967 I'll do just that.

ROFL

ForeverChiefs58
06-25-2010, 08:19 AM
I am sure Direckshun, orangechicken, buceye etc. are very upset about this. Ha ha. I am sure they are glad, and wish there was more captured jews. Meanwhile, they want to cry poor hamas, hezbullha iran and terrorist everywhere.:deevee:


"Human Rights Watch charged Friday that Hamas militants are violating the rules of war by prohibiting a captive Israeli soldier from having contact with his family and the Red Cross.

The treatment of the 23-year-old soldier, captured exactly four years ago, by his Hamas captors is "cruel and inhuman" and matches a U.N. definition of torture because he is denied any outside contact, the U.S.-based rights group said in a statement"