PDA

View Full Version : Religion The Pyramids, The Mana Machine and other structures...revisited


petegz28
06-16-2010, 09:06 AM
Yes, I have started a few threads on the topic of the Pyramids among other ancient stone structures. After revisiting the issue myself there are just simply questions in which the answers we have been given simply to not add up.

For instance, the tools we think they had simply just could not have performed the job. To put it in modern day aspect, it would take literally 15-20 heavy-lift cranes to lift some of the blocks we so easily assume were moved by men with ropes, oil and perhaps even pulleys. I have to call a big, loud B.S. on this conclusion. Cranes are made of steel and do indeed use pulleys. There simply is no way in hell a pulley system made of wood and even bronze parts would be able to support the weight of some of these blocks. There are cut marks in several structures that indicate some sort of cutting tools and machinery beyond the basic tools we assume they used. Remember, this is a civilization that allegedly didn't even have the wheel. One researcher theorises that the pits at the base of the Pyramids were actually pits that housed giant circular saws that were used to cut the stone blocks.

Secondly, where are the tools? We have proof that the Egyptians and other civilizations cut diorite stone. That literally would take, at least in our day, diamond tipped tools. Yet no diamonds or evidence of diamonds have ever been found in Egypt from that time. We have evidence that drill bits made of diorite had been grooved to assist in the drilling yet again, such grooves could only be made from diamond tipped tools.

Thirdly to add to the speculation of advanced technologies possibly provided by "aliens" we have to look at "The Mana Machine". Was this given to Moses to help the Jews survive for 40 years in the desert? Was this what was inside the Ark of the Covenant? Evidence shows that some who had worked with or tampered with the Ark suffered from symptoms that imply radiation sickness, losing their nails and hair.

Here is a link that discusses The Mana Machine and how 2 scientists have reconstucted the machine based off the detailed descriptions form the Zohar.

http://www.mystical-www.co.uk/mana.htm

And finally, one archeologist has develped the theory based on a salt covering that more or less coated all the walls in the Queen's Chamber of the Great Pyramid and other evidence that it is indeed possible that the Pyramids were actually built to be hydrogen power plants. Sounds far out but he makes a compelling case.

http://www.gizapower.com/Articles/door2.html

BucEyedPea
06-16-2010, 09:29 AM
Wow! A Manna Machine 'eh?

petegz28
06-16-2010, 09:33 AM
Wow! A Manna Machine 'eh?

Yes, I was very surpirsed about this never have hearing about it before. If indeed true, there is absolutely no way we can dismiss extra-terrestrial intervention. It doesn't prove it, but we cannot simply dismiss it as some do.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 09:40 AM
This might be a book I have to pick up...

Chris Dunn has given us a powerful new vision of the Great Pyramid at Giza, by using his technical expertise to “reverse engineer” the pyramid. What he finds is a magnificent machine that produced power using the earth itself as the source and incorporating the science of vibration and sound. Dunn works backwards from the artifacts produced by the ancient Egyptians, showing that only sophisticated machine tools could have produced the hollowed out diorite bowls and other works created by this civilization. His conclusions are based on the evidence in the pyramid itself as well as other artifacts of the classical Egyptian civilization.

He developed his theory by trying to find the purpose of the many puzzling passages and “rooms” inside the Great Pyramid which have never been explained by Egyptologists. What was the reason for creating the ascending and decending passageways, the "air shafts," and the Grand Gallery, with its strange walls and ceiling? What was the true purpose of the "sarcophagus" and why did it have to be carved from a single block rather than made from pieces and put together?

Dunn draws on some of the observations of researchers who went before him, who have noted the unusual acoustic characteristics inside the pyramid. He uses the detailed notes left to us by W. Flinders Petrie more than a century ago. Petrie made extensive measurements and examinations of the pyramid long before the “tomb” theory became gospel. Dunn points out that not a single original burial has ever been found in any Egyptian pyramid! All of the burials discovered in pyramids were "intrusive" -- placed there many years after the building of the pyramid. There is actually no credible evidence that pyramids were built to be tombs. Dunn felt there must be another reason for building pyramids and spent many years researching his ideas. The book does what he set out to do -- provides an explanation for everything inside of the pyramid and shows how it could have been built to generate power for a civilization much more advanced than Egyptologists will admit.

Looking at the problem from a modern perspective, Dunn feels the tremendous amount of resources that went into building the Great Pyramid means it must have been for something very important. Would a civilization devote such resources to creating a tomb, a monument that returned nothing to those who created it? Dunn argues that one use which would provide a large return is a power plant, and if it is a power plant, the Great Pyramid is so well built that it must have provided power for a very long time. At least, until a disaster struck… and Dunn sees evidence that a destructive force did strike the King’s Chamber, pushing the walls back. This feature is usually attributed to an earthquake, but Dunn points out that the damage is localized. An earthquake would have damaged more of the pyramid. Could it have been an explosion inside the power generator?

I found especially compelling Dunn’s discussion of the supposed fact that the Egyptians did not use the wheel. It seems to be an uwarranted assumption. Perhaps we've not found wheels because they did not apply the wheel to the same tasks that we do. For transportation, they may have had hovercraft instead (much better suited to going over sand) and they also used boats --the Nile River was the primary “road” in their country. Technologies can develop along very different lines in different societies, depending on needs and values. As an example, Dunn says that Germany under the Nazis developed technology that was as advanced, but different, from that of the US after only 12 years of relative isolation. We are separated from the ancient Egyptians by thousands of years and totally different kinds of cultural and economic systems.

Dunn mentions the theory of Joseph Davidovits and Margie Morris (The Pyramids: An Engima Solved) who say the huge stone blocks used in building the pyramids are actually cast concrete, but he pretty much dismisses it. I have this book (1988 hardcover from Dorset Press) and found the authors make a believable case. The book is very interesting, with many illustrations and translations from papyrus that seem to indicate the use of concrete, or what the authors call geopolymers. One of the authors, Margaret Morris, has written another book on this same subject and has a caustic review on amazon.com of The Giza Power Plant. On her web site, she challenges Dunn to a debate. She is totally critical of Dunn's theory, but perhaps it arises from his quick dismissal of the "poured concrete" idea, which actually deserves more of a hearing.

I was also excited to see Dunn discuss the Choral Castle in Florida, produced by Ed Leedskalnin back in the 1950s. Somehow, one small frail man was able to move huge stone blocks by himself. Leedskalnin claimed to have discovered how the Egyptians moved the giant blocks that made up the pyramids but he died without revealing the secret. Dunn theorizes that it involves magnetism and would mean discarding some of the current scientific beliefs about gravity. I've read about the Choral Castle and some of the speculation surrounding it. Explanations usually involve a method for canceling gravity. Once the block of rock weighs nothing, it makes sense to make it big, since moving a lot of small blocks into place would be more work than just moving one block. But nobody really knows how Ed did it.

Dunn treads carefully around the Edgar Cayce material, almost apologizing for including it, but I am glad he did. How can you discuss theories about the pyramids and leave out the American clairvoyant, Edgar Cayce, and the organization that promotes his readings, the ARE? The Cayce people brought Mark Lehner to Egypt and have done explorations to seek out the infamous Hall of Records, mentioned by Cayce. This is where the records from Atlantis are hidden. In Cayce's readings, Atlantis is the precursor for the Egyptian civilization. Cayce said the Atlanteans destroyed their homeland through the misuse of a powerful energy source; this fits with Dunn’s theory that the Egyptians understood how to produce electrical power. Okay, so some people are turned off by giving consideration to this "occult" material, but we don't have much else to go on and there is great internal consistency to the Cayce readings and what they have to say about Atlantis and Egypt.

Dunn's ideas are logically presented, but there are a few holes. One criticism is that there is little representation in Egyptian art of the uses of this power. There is the famous “light bulb” picture in the Temple of Dendera which seems to show Crookes tubes in use, complete with power cables. There are also in other places depictions of what could be flying machines, but there are also pictures of people plowing fields using animals and other seemingly primitive ways of working. But as Dunn rightly points out, different societies would use a power source for different purposes. Because they didn’t have toaster ovens and cars doesn’t prove they had no source of electrical power. Uses of electricity would depend on the economic system of Egyptian society. Who owned the power created in the pyramid and how was electrical power distributed? There are no answers.

Another weakness in Dunn’s presentation is that he doesn’t deal with specific timeframes for the development of Egyptian technology. The Egyptian civilization lasted for thousands of years which Egyptologists divide into three periods. Dunn vaguely refers to the pyramid builders as “ancient Egyptians” but does not discuss any specific years or relate the accomplishment to any other known historical event. He does not attempt to show how the technology fits into a culture. Dunn is not claiming to be a historian or archeologist, but for his theory to make real sense, we need to know what the Egyptians did with the power they generated.

Dunn aludes to a possible distribution method by discussing the inventions of Nikola Tesla who believed electrical power could be delivered without wires. If the Egyptians used wireless technology, then we wouldn't find ancient electrical lines. Dunn says wireless power was never pursued in Tesla's time because there was not an easy way to meter it. How would those who controlled wireless power make money? Was the profit motive part of Egyptian society, or would power have been made freely available, or would it only be for use of the ruling class? The need to make money off inventions is a primary driver of technology in our present society (and may keep many potentially useful and even life-saving technologies from being developed), but what drove technological development in ancient civilizations? Why don't we see more pictures of power use portrayed in Egyptian art?

Dunn does not discuss the purpose of the other two pyramids or the other buildings on the Giza plateau. It makes sense that all three pyramids must have a connected purpose. His theory is not complete without an explanation that includes everything on the Giza plateau. I hope Chris Dunn will continue his inquiries and that other researchers will carefully consider what he has presented in this groundbreaking book. Even if you don't agree with him, Dunn gives you plenty to think about.

http://www.theseekerbooks.com/articles/Gizapower.htm

Hydrae
06-16-2010, 11:05 AM
C'mon, the power was sent out of the cap stone into a hovering spaceship. Egypt was a refueling depot for the aliens!

Ebolapox
06-16-2010, 11:05 AM
...I have no comment.

Fish
06-16-2010, 11:18 AM
ROFL Good grief Pete....

Mana machines? Pyramid hydrogen power plants? Egyptian hovercrafts? Discarding beliefs about gravity?

Wow dude....

Donger
06-16-2010, 11:19 AM
Pete, I could tell you how all of this was done, but I'm not going to do so.

BucEyedPea
06-16-2010, 11:35 AM
Yes, I was very surpirsed about this never have hearing about it before. If indeed true, there is absolutely no way we can dismiss extra-terrestrial intervention. It doesn't prove it, but we cannot simply dismiss it as some do.
I remember the documentary on Chariots of the Gods way back in the eighties I think it was. I found it fascinating.
Besides terrestrials, perhaps there were other earlier advanced civilizations even. I mean what about Atlantis?

petegz28
06-16-2010, 11:41 AM
ROFL Good grief Pete....

Mana machines? Pyramid hydrogen power plants? Egyptian hovercrafts? Discarding beliefs about gravity?

Wow dude....

The simple fact is, even as you try to make fun of me, is you have no proof that any of that existed or didn't. And as the facts come out what we think we know and what the truth is is fastly becoming 2 different things.

Ebolapox
06-16-2010, 12:05 PM
I'll make one statement, and one alone.

if it were a fact, one would assume that there would be more evidence. it's like the roswell incident; we all want to think that our government has everything hidden away in a tight compartment and they've all got us for a loop. the reality is that we've seen over a number of years that the government is really nothing but incompetent boobs and beaurocrats who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, and they don't have the wherewithal to hide something of ANY scale, and it gets worse on an international level.

facts. that's what we need. facts. I know you don't believe in it, but the scientific method essentially is:


Ask a Question
Do Background Research
Construct a Hypothesis
Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
Communicate Your Results

so you believe in ancient aliens? that's absolutely fine. go about trying to prove it in a legitimate way, not by living in the realm of the conspiracy theory nuts (where it is now). this and other issues (atlantis) will ALWAYS be on the fringe as long as no legitimate evidence is ever presented. presenting things on the history channel is one thing, presenting them in peer-reviewed journals is another (key difference: one is legit, one is sensationalist).

petegz28
06-16-2010, 12:17 PM
I'll make one statement, and one alone.

if it were a fact, one would assume that there would be more evidence. it's like the roswell incident; we all want to think that our government has everything hidden away in a tight compartment and they've all got us for a loop. the reality is that we've seen over a number of years that the government is really nothing but incompetent boobs and beaurocrats who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, and they don't have the wherewithal to hide something of ANY scale, and it gets worse on an international level.

facts. that's what we need. facts. I know you don't believe in it, but the scientific method essentially is:


Ask a Question
Do Background Research
Construct a Hypothesis
Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
Communicate Your Results

so you believe in ancient aliens? that's absolutely fine. go about trying to prove it in a legitimate way, not by living in the realm of the conspiracy theory nuts (where it is now). this and other issues (atlantis) will ALWAYS be on the fringe as long as no legitimate evidence is ever presented. presenting things on the history channel is one thing, presenting them in peer-reviewed journals is another (key difference: one is legit, one is sensationalist).

I hate to break it to you but most of these theories are supported or concluded by the use of scientific method and scientific approaches. That fact is that the story we are told about the Pyramids is not factual at all. And there probably will never be hard factual evidence to support either side of the argument.

That being said, it seems most who don't want to keep an open mind quickly dismiss scientific research on the matter as a conspiracy theory. The fact is the more we research this topic from a scientific point of view the more the traditional explantions for things such as the Pyramids start to unravel.

Fish
06-16-2010, 12:30 PM
The simple fact is, even as you try to make fun of me, is you have no proof that any of that existed or didn't. And as the facts come out what we think we know and what the truth is is fastly becoming 2 different things.

Less than a thousand years ago, people were tied to a stake and burned alive because people couldn't "disprove" that the victims weren't witches or possessed by the devil....

The burden of proof is on the kooks. And as it stands, they have no proof for the idea of Ancient Aliens. Only speculation and theories. They can show us a diorite block with holes in it. But that doesn't do much for a logical person, as it's been proven that with enough time and the simplest of tools, you can indeed produce similar results. At one time, Stonehenge was thought to be impossible to built by hand. But we now have a guy building a replica using the same sized blocks in his backyard by himself. Using no power tools, only wood, leverage, and determination.

To us it seems so illogical that these ancient people would go through so much effort to move around giant blocks of rock. So illogical that we think they couldn't have possibly even entertained the idea because of the work involved. But construction back then spanned generations. We don't understand the possibilities because nobody these days is willing to put forth the effort it would take to saw through a block of rock with hand tools.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 12:42 PM
Less than a thousand years ago, people were tied to a stake and burned alive because people couldn't "disprove" that the victims weren't witches or possessed by the devil....

The burden of proof is on the kooks. And as it stands, they have no proof for the idea of Ancient Aliens. Only speculation and theories. They can show us a diorite block with holes in it. But that doesn't do much for a logical person, as it's been proven that with enough time and the simplest of tools, you can indeed produce similar results. At one time, Stonehenge was thought to be impossible to built by hand. But we now have a guy building a replica using the same sized blocks in his backyard by himself. Using no power tools, only wood, leverage, and determination.

To us it seems so illogical that these ancient people would go through so much effort to move around giant blocks of rock. So illogical that we think they couldn't have possibly even entertained the idea because of the work involved. But construction back then spanned generations. We don't understand the possibilities because nobody these days is willing to put forth the effort it would take to saw through a block of rock with hand tools.

Terrible analogy. The burden of proof is on both sides of this argument. You want to ignore the laws of physics while in the same breath dismiss other theories. Wood is only so strong. Only so much can be done with the tools we "think" they used. We'll see how far said guy gets using wood to lift and place them the way they were with the Pyramids. And it expands beyong the Pyramids. There are structures all over the planet that were made with such precision and with materials in some cases that weigh a lot more than the Pyramid blocks, that we would be pushed to our limits to even begin to replicate these things.

There are just physical facts that the typical, mainstream theories gloss over. As I mentioned earlier, the cutting of diorite. It wasn't done with stone tools and copper wire. Sorry, it just isn't going to happen. Then there are other things such as machine marks on several structures. Cut marks that indicate something with a lot more presicion than a hammer and chisel would make. Blocks made perfectly smooth to 2/1000's of an inch.

Does this mean aliens were involved? Maybe, maybe not. Does it mean the typical theories we hear of men moving such types of blocks with wood and rope is false? Sure is starting to lean that way.

The biggest damaging blow to the mainstream is the fact that wood can only support so much weight, regardless of how much leverage you use. And the trees, if I understand things correctly, that were used in Egypt for wood were not particularly the strongest of trees.

The fact is we don't know. And therefore all theories carry weight. I mean lets use a little common sense. The mainstream answers would have you believe that a civilization so primative that they did not even have use of the wheel performed such engineering feats? Sorry, it just doesn't pass the easiest of smell tests.

Fish
06-16-2010, 01:01 PM
Terrible analogy. The burden of proof is on both sides of this argument. You want to ignore the laws of physics while in the same breath dismiss other theories. Wood is only so strong. Only so much can be done with the tools we "think" they used. We'll see how far said guy gets using wood to lift and place them the way they were with the Pyramids. And it expands beyong the Pyramids. There are structures all over the planet that were made with such precision and with materials in some cases that weigh a lot more than the Pyramid blocks, that we would be pushed to our limits to even begin to replicate these things.

There are just physical facts that the typical, mainstream theories gloss over. As I mentioned earlier, the cutting of diorite. It wasn't done with stone tools and copper wire. Sorry, it just isn't going to happen. Then there are other things such as machine marks on several structures. Cut marks that indicate something with a lot more presicion than a hammer and chisel would make. Blocks made perfectly smooth to 2/1000's of an inch.

Does this mean aliens were involved? Maybe, maybe not. Does it mean the typical theories we hear of men moving such types of blocks with wood and rope is false? Sure is starting to lean that way.

The biggest damaging blow to the mainstream is the fact that wood can only support so much weight, regardless of how much leverage you use. And the trees, if I understand things correctly, that were used in Egypt for wood were not particularly the strongest of trees.

The fact is we don't know. And therefore all theories carry weight. I mean lets use a little common sense.ROFL The mainstream answers would have you believe that a civilization so primative that they did not even have use of the wheel performed such engineering feats? Sorry, it just doesn't pass the easiest of smell tests.

The cutting of diorite did happen. With copper tools. They have proof of this already, as evidenced by the green stains on the sides of the blocks produced by the copper saws.

"That the blades of the saw were of bronze, we know from the green staining on the sides of the saw cuts, and on grains of sand left in a saw cut.
The forms of the tools were straight saws, circular saws, tubular drills, and lathes.
The straight saws varied from .03 to .2 inch thick, according to the work; the largest were 8 feet or more in length..." "...No. 6, a slice of diorite bearing equidistant and regular grooves of circular arcs, parallel to one another; these grooves have been nearly polished out by cross grinding, but are still visible."...the lathe appears to have been as familiar an instrument in the fourth dynasty, as it is in the modern workshops. The diorite bowls and vases of the Old Kingdom are frequently met with, and show great technical skill. One piece found at Gizeh, No 14, shows that the method employed was true turning, and not any process of grinding, since the bowl has been knocked off of its centring, recentred imperfectly, and the old turning not quite turned out; thus there are two surfaces belonging to different centrings, and meeting in a cusp.And obviously they didn't throw all their tools away:

Another Egyptologist led me to the "tool room" to educate me in the methods of the ancient masons by showing me a few cases that housed primitive copper tools.

I asked my host about the cutting of granite, for this was the focus of my article. He explained how they cut a slot in the granite and inserted wooden wedges which they soaked with water. The wood swelled creating pressure that split the rock.And regarding the carving of the sarcophagus, which someone claimed to be "impossible"...

We know that the sarcophagus or stone box in the king's chamber of the Great Pyramid was cut with a very large saw - longer than the box - perhaps 8 or 9 feet. The marks on the bottom of the box were discovered and described by W.I. Flinders Petrie [The Pyramids and Temples of Gizeh]. (http://www.theglobaleducationproject.org/egypt/articles/petrie.php) He also described an apparent error in cutting that went off the mark for several inches before the workers noticed/bothered to back out the saw from the cut and start over. We don't know what the saw blade was made of, whether it had teeth or if they used abrasives . These questions could perhaps be answered after microscopic examination of the cut marks by contemporary specialists in manufacturing technology.Do you think it likely that the aliens made a mistake when laser cutting then sarcophagus?

Read here for more: http://www.theglobaleducationproject.org/egypt/articles/stonetech.php

petegz28
06-16-2010, 01:07 PM
The cutting of diorite did happen. With copper tools. They have proof of this already, as evidenced by the green stains on the sides of the blocks produced by the copper saws.

And obviously they didn't throw all their tools away:

And regarding the carving of the sarcophagus, which someone claimed to be "impossible"...

Do you think it likely that the aliens made a mistake when laser cutting then sarcophagus?

Read here for more: http://www.theglobaleducationproject.org/egypt/articles/stonetech.php

Copper cannot cut diorite. Experiments have been done with the whole sand\copper method and it doesn't work. I mean you are talking about a very soft metal in copper cutting the hardest stone in the world and to precision. Sorry, not buying it. And again, your closed mindedness is showing. I have said now multiple times that this does not prove alien intervention. But it does prove they used technologies we claim they didn't have. But to be a smartass about it, why would aliens be void of making a cutting mistake?

And furthermore you proved one of the theories that has presented. The use of circular saws. Which means they did posses some form of the wheel, though we keep being told they didn't. And that the pits at the basin of the Pyramids were indeed used to house large circular saws to cut the stone blocks. See, you yourself are already shooting holes in the mainstream theories.

mikey23545
06-16-2010, 01:12 PM
Oh FFS.


<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oK1Rzch89Dw&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oK1Rzch89Dw&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


W.T. “Wally” Wallington is, according to his “Forgotten Technology” website, a “retired carpenter with 35 years of experience in construction.” Wally’s goal, as apparent in the video above, is to erect a Stonehenge-sized plinth in his back yard. Wally isn’t necessarily as crazy as he might seem. Using basic ideas of leverage and motion known since ancient times, Wallington appears to prove his concept.

While his sights seem focused on the mysterious Stonehenge, Wallington may have also unwittingly revealed how a strange man named Edward Leedskalnin built the Coral Castle in Homestead, Florida. Leedskalnin deliberately obscured the methods he used to construct his multi-ton stone monuments, carving out a niche in paranormal history in the process. He may have simply been using the same techniques illustrated by Wally Wallington all along.

Though you have to admit, the idea of spooky lantern light and muttered incantations is much more fun than gritty, basic principles of construction as familiar to the Ancient Egyptians as they are to us.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 01:14 PM
Oh FFS.


<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oK1Rzch89Dw&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oK1Rzch89Dw&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


W.T. “Wally” Wallington is, according to his “Forgotten Technology” website, a “retired carpenter with 35 years of experience in construction.” Wally’s goal, as apparent in the video above, is to erect a Stonehenge-sized plinth in his back yard. Wally isn’t necessarily as crazy as he might seem. Using basic ideas of leverage and motion known since ancient times, Wallington appears to prove his concept.

While his sights seem focused on the mysterious Stonehenge, Wallington may have also unwittingly revealed how a strange man named Edward Leedskalnin built the Coral Castle in Homestead, Florida. Leedskalnin deliberately obscured the methods he used to construct his multi-ton stone monuments, carving out a niche in paranormal history in the process. He may have simply been using the same techniques illustrated by Wally Wallington all along.

Though you have to admit, the idea of spooky lantern light and muttered incantations is much more fun than gritty, basic principles of construction as familiar to the Ancient Egyptians as they are to us.

Stonehenge is probably the least challenging. And many have theorised how this was built. While a wonderful feat, it is no where near the scale of the Pyramids.

Detoxing
06-16-2010, 01:24 PM
I watched the Ancient Aliens series and they were surely reaching for shit in that program and claimed it as evidence.

Some of it is interesting, some of it is pretty fucking far fetched.

with that said, Im open to the idea that the Ancients had greater technologies and methods that we are not aware of. Aliens? Telekinesis? Some bad ass tools? I don't know, but im open to suggestions that make sense.

Because some of these things just can't be explained right now.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 01:26 PM
I watched the Ancient Aliens series and they were surely reaching for shit in that program and claimed it as evidence.

Some of it is interesting, some of it is pretty ****ing far fetched.

with that said, Im open to the idea that the Ancients had greater technologies and methods that we are not aware of. Aliens? Telekinesis? Some bad ass tools? I don't know, but im open to suggestions that make sense.

Because some of these things just can't be explained right now.

That's pretty much the basis of my argument. There is just too much that that we are told that doesn't pass the test

Detoxing
06-16-2010, 01:31 PM
That's pretty much the basis of my argument. There is just too much that that we are told that doesn't pass the test

One thing about these videos that keep getting posted here today that im surprised no one has mentioned yet, is in regards to the way he moves the stones across the ground.

Sure, you can go ahead and put a small rock under a large stone and move it across concrete like in his video, but that shit ain't gonna fly when you have to move it across sand and terrain.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 01:34 PM
One thing about these videos that keep getting posted here today that im surprised no one has mentioned yet, is in regards to the way he moves the stones across the ground.

Sure, you can go ahead and put a small rock under a large stone and move it across concrete like in his video, but that shit ain't gonna fly when you have to move it across sand and terrain.

This is true. Or up scaffolding. Not to mention that, although what he has done is impressive, it doesn't even begin to address the precise cutting and placement of stones. And the fact that the hardest stone in the world was allegedly cut with copper. Stonehenge is what, about 15 ft tall or so? I am talking about moving 2.5 ton blocks miles and them lifting them to heights in the 100's of feet and placing them perfectly in place.

Fish
06-16-2010, 01:34 PM
You didn't even bother to read any of the info in the link I posted did you? That's pretty sad Pete, as it provides many answers to your questions.... none of which involve anything other than hard work and an underestimation of their masonry skills.

Copper cannot cut diorite. Experiments have been done with the whole sand\copper method and it doesn't work. I mean you are talking about a very soft metal in copper cutting the hardest stone in the world and to precision. Sorry, not buying it. And again, your closed mindedness is showing. I have said now multiple times that this does not prove alien intervention. But it does prove they used technologies we claim they didn't have. But to be a smartass about it, why would aliens be void of making a cutting mistake?

Here: "The typical method of working hard stones - such as granite, diorite, basalt, etc.- was by means of bronze tools; these were set with cutting points, far harder than the quartz which was operated on. The material of these cutting points is yet undetermined; but only five substances are possible - beryl, topaz, chrysoberyl, corindum or sapphire, and diamond. The character of the work would certainly seem to point to diamond as being the cutting jewel; and only the considerations of its rarity in general,...interfer with this conclusion."

"That the Egyptians were acquainted with a cutting jewel far harder than quartz, and that they used this jewel as a sharp pointed graver, is put beyond doubt by the diorite bowls with inscriptions of the fourth dynasty, of which I found fragments at Gizeh; as well as the scratches on polished granite of Ptolemaic age at San. The hieroglyphs are incised, with a very fre-cutting point; they are not scraped or ground out, but are ploughed through the diorite, with rough edges to the line. As the lines are only 1/150 inch wide (the figures being about .2 long), it is evidence that the cutting point must have been much harder than quartz; and tough enough not to splinter when so fine an edge was being employed, probably only 1/200 inch wide. Parallel lines are graved only 1/30 inch apart from centre to centre."


"We therefore need have no hesitation in allowing that the graving out of lines in hard stones by jewel points, was a well known art. And when we find on the surfaces of the saw-cuts in diorite, grooves as deep as 1/100 inch, it appears far more likely that such were produced by fixed jewel points in the saw, than by any fortuitous rubbing about of a loose powder. And when, further, it is seen that these deep grooves are almost always regular and uniform in depth, and equidistant, their production by the successive cuts of the jewel teeth of a saw appears to be beyond question..."
http://www.theglobaleducationproject.org/egypt/articles/petrie.php

That's a much more logical explanation than aliens that traveled light years across the galaxy to help us build pyramids without even having super laser plasma hydro cutters that could cut a straight line....

And furthermore you proved one of the theories that has presented. The use of circular saws. Which means they did posses some form of the wheel, though we keep being told they didn't. And that the pits at the basin of the Pyramids were indeed used to house large circular saws to cut the stone blocks. See, you yourself are already shooting holes in the mainstream theories.

Who said they didn't have circular saws? I've never said that, and don't believe it to be true. They had circular saws, lathes, and so on... Why is that so hard to believe?

petegz28
06-16-2010, 01:46 PM
You didn't even bother to read any of the info in the link I posted did you? That's pretty sad Pete, as it provides many answers to your questions.... none of which involve anything other than hard work and an underestimation of their masonry skills.



Here: http://www.theglobaleducationproject.org/egypt/articles/petrie.php

That's a much more logical explanation than aliens that traveled light years across the galaxy to help us build pyramids without even having super laser plasma hydro cutters that could cut a straight line....



Who said they didn't have circular saws? I've never said that, and don't believe it to be true. They had circular saws, lathes, and so on... Why is that so hard to believe?

JFC! First you accuse me of not reading. Then you post information supporting my claims. That they indeed did not use copper tools to cut diorite. As I stated, DIAMOND TIPPED TOOLS HAD TO BE USED. Come on, man. You just proved my point. Ok, ok, your link says they used a "jewel" harder than quartz. Perhaps it was moissanite?

So thank you for essentially proving one of the things I put in the OP, that the diorite had to be cut with a diamond tipped tool. And your link goes on to further prove my point that they don't even know what jewel was used. As again stated in the OP that there were no evidence of diamonds being used.

You keep wanting to harp on the "it wasn't aliens" aspect. And for the umpteenth time, I guess it don't sink in, I said that this does not necessarily prove the intervention of aliens. But each one of your post keeps supporting the OP, so for that I thank you.

And why is it hard to believe they had circular saws? Ask the people who keep telling us they had no concept of the wheel?

Fish
06-16-2010, 01:58 PM
JFC! First you accuse me of not reading. Then you post information supporting my claims. That they indeed did not use copper tools to cut diorite. As I stated, DIAMOND TIPPED TOOLS HAD TO BE USED. Come on, man. You just proved my point. Ok, ok, your link says they used a "jewel" harder than quartz. Perhaps it was moissanite?

So thank you for essentially proving one of the things I put in the OP, that the diorite had to be cut with a diamond tipped tool. And your link goes on to further prove my point that they don't even know what jewel was used. As again stated in the OP that there were no evidence of diamonds being used.

You keep wanting to harp on the "it wasn't aliens" aspect. And for the umpteenth time, I guess it don't sink in, I said that this does not necessarily prove the intervention of aliens. But each one of your post keeps supporting the OP, so for that I thank you.

And why is it hard to believe they had circular saws? Ask the people who keep telling us they had no concept of the wheel?

So.... are we officially steering away from your posts about mana machines and pyramid hydrogen plants and Egyptian hovercrafts?

Seems you've went from "ALIENS!" to "They used more advanced tools than we thought" rather quickly through this thread and along with your previous posts in your Ancient Aliens thread. Pardon if I'm off base with that. My intentions through the Ancient aliens thread and this thread have always been to point out that we've underestimated the ancient Egyptians' masonry and engineering skills. I'm fairly certain that's been obvious.

And I'm still unsure who these "people" are that you claim are telling us they had no concept of the wheel.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 02:01 PM
So.... are we officially steering away from your posts about mana machines and pyramid hydrogen plants and Egyptian hovercrafts?

Seems you've went from "ALIENS!" to "They used more advanced tools than we thought" rather quickly through this thread and along with your previous posts in your Ancient Aliens thread. Pardon if I'm off base with that. My intentions through the Ancient aliens thread and this thread have always been to point out that we've underestimated the ancient Egyptians' masonry and engineering skills. I'm fairly certain that's been obvious.

And I'm still unsure who these "people" are that you claim are telling us they had no concept of the wheel.

No, we are not steering away from that. There is scientific evidence of such. Well, hovercrafts, maybe we can steer away from for now. The "aliens" aspect cannot be ruled out. Were they given this technology? What about the Zohar do you find inaccurate in relation to the Mana Machine?

Amnorix
06-16-2010, 02:04 PM
The fact is we don't know. And therefore all theories carry weight. I mean lets use a little common sense. The mainstream answers would have you believe that a civilization so primative that they did not even have use of the wheel performed such engineering feats? Sorry, it just doesn't pass the easiest of smell tests.


So Aliens from far distant galaxies discovered space flight technology and came here to build a pile of rocks?

And convinced the natives to not draw any pictures of their involvement or otherwise implicate them in any way.

And this makes sense to you?

petegz28
06-16-2010, 02:06 PM
So Aliens from far distant galaxies discovered space flight technology and came here to build a pile of rocks?

And convinced the natives to not draw any pictures of their involvement or otherwise implicate them in any way.

And this makes sense to you?

I don't know that it is all that cut and dry. But according to Sumarian texts, it was indeed prhohibited to depict the "Anunnaki".

Amnorix
06-16-2010, 02:08 PM
And furthermore you proved one of the theories that has presented. The use of circular saws. Which means they did posses some form of the wheel, though we keep being told they didn't. And that the pits at the basin of the Pyramids were indeed used to house large circular saws to cut the stone blocks. See, you yourself are already shooting holes in the mainstream theories.

Wheels predate pyramids. What's this about "being told they didn't have them"?

petegz28
06-16-2010, 02:12 PM
Wheels predate pyramids. What's this about "being told they didn't have them"?

Actually they do no pre-date the earlier Pyramids.

Fish
06-16-2010, 02:17 PM
No, we are not steering away from that. There is scientific evidence of such. Well, hovercrafts, maybe we can steer away from for now. The "aliens" aspect cannot be ruled out. Were they given this technology? What about the Zohar do you find inaccurate in relation to the Mana Machine?

Where is this scientific evidence? Please address that for me if you could. As I don't consider George Tsoukalas pointing to ancient trinkets that resemble an airplane, or ancient depictions of bulbous headed men as scientific proof....

And the manna machine is considered a joke to most. It's so widely disputed that I'm surprised you would even mention it. The Zohar is widely believed a hoax. So much so that I've never given it much thought at all. You really think the Zohar could be legit?

Amnorix
06-16-2010, 02:18 PM
One thing about these videos that keep getting posted here today that im surprised no one has mentioned yet, is in regards to the way he moves the stones across the ground.

Sure, you can go ahead and put a small rock under a large stone and move it across concrete like in his video, but that shit ain't gonna fly when you have to move it across sand and terrain.

Rollers, wheels, thousands of slaves, oxen (or whatever other beast of burden) and a signfiicant segment of society and its wealth being invested in one project.

And I firmly believe that aliens DO exist. Whether they've come here or not is an entirely different question, but I pretty much believe in aliens as a mathematical certainty, given the size of the universe and the number of planets in it.

But whether they exist or not, I doubt they'd stop by and built a few pyramids just for kicks.

Fish
06-16-2010, 02:21 PM
Rollers, wheels, thousands of slaves, oxen (or whatever other beast of burden) and a signfiicant segment of society and its wealth being invested in one project.

And I firmly believe that aliens DO exist. Whether they've come here or not is an entirely different question, but I pretty much believe in aliens as a mathematical certainty, given the size of the universe and the number of planets in it.

But whether they exist or not, I doubt they'd stop by and built a few pyramids just for kicks.

I'm absolutely convinced that aliens exist in some capacity. Very very likely that there are civilizations more advanced than our own.

However, like yourself I think the possibilities of them coming to Earth to help ancient civilizations build stone structures is as close to zero as you can get.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 02:24 PM
Rollers, wheels, thousands of slaves, oxen (or whatever other beast of burden) and a signfiicant segment of society and its wealth being invested in one project.

And I firmly believe that aliens DO exist. Whether they've come here or not is an entirely different question, but I pretty much believe in aliens as a mathematical certainty, given the size of the universe and the number of planets in it.

But whether they exist or not, I doubt they'd stop by and built a few pyramids just for kicks.

Again you go from the extremely logical to the extremely dumb. Who is to say they built them and built them for themselves? Who is to say, if we were indeed visted which I believe evidence clearly shows we have been, they weren't passing a technology onto us for whatever reason? This is my problem with most non-believers. It's not that you don't necessarily believe, it's the way you presnt your argument for not believing.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 02:27 PM
I'm absolutely convinced that aliens exist in some capacity. Very very likely that there are civilizations more advanced than our own.

However, like yourself I think the possibilities of them coming to Earth to help ancient civilizations build stone structures is as close to zero as you can get.

Really? Ya think so? Then why do we have reference dating back to the beginning of the Bible of being visited by "Gods"? Why do we have "Gods" and "Angels" flying around in chariots of fire? Why do we have ancient artifacts dating back to even the Sumarians that seem to depict humanoids in space suits, for lack of a better term?

If you truly believe there are aliens then you have to understand that just because we are the way we are for the reasons we are as humans, doesn't mean they are just like us in motive and such.

Amnorix
06-16-2010, 02:29 PM
I don't know that it is all that cut and dry. But according to Sumarian texts, it was indeed prhohibited to depict the "Anunnaki".

But the pyramids we're discussing aren't in Sumer, are they.

And the concept of not depicting Gods isn't exactly new... But I'm not talking about pictures, I'm talking about not even discussing that they came down from the sky and built a pyramid or whatever. Nothing about that.

You've also got the very long construction period of the Pyramids and other Egyptian architecture to deal with. It's not like we think all the pyramids were built within the same 10 year period or anything. Nope. Spread out across centuries. How long did the aliens hang out here building pyramids for a bunch of savages? Why?

Let's face it, it's just wildly unlikely.

There's no direct evidence fo alien involvement. No proof. At best there are a few areas of uncertainty as to how, exactly, the ancient Egyptians did it. It's waaaaay too big a leap to go from "not quite sure about" to "Aliens!!"

petegz28
06-16-2010, 02:32 PM
And let me further add, I truly believe in the possibilty that "aliens" being several hundred millions of years more advanced than us could very well have seeded life on this planet. A civilization that advanced would understand that life on a particular planet is temporary and very well could be aiding in the colonization of planets that are inhabitable as they find them. I know, far fetched but not out of the realm of possibility. There is nothing to say we weren't seeded here and given certain technologies to help what we call mankind once we as a species had evolved to a point certain intelligence.

Detoxing
06-16-2010, 02:36 PM
I'm absolutely convinced that aliens exist in some capacity. Very very likely that there are civilizations more advanced than our own.

However, like yourself I think the possibilities of them coming to Earth to help ancient civilizations build stone structures is as close to zero as you can get.

Well, if you follow the theory of the Ancient Aliens, they didn't exactly come here to build pyramids.

The Theory is basically based on the belief that Humans are NOT a species that developed through evolution, but rather genetically engineered as slaves. They back this idea up by citing Ancient Sumarian Mythology that claims that humans were created by reptilian like creatures from the stars that created us in order to enslave us.

It's actually a pretty interesting theory and makes some interesting points. but, then it kinda unravles a bit from there.

Amnorix
06-16-2010, 02:37 PM
Actually they do no pre-date the earlier Pyramids.

Apparently they do.

Evidence of wheeled vehicles appears from the mid 4th millennium BC (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/wiki/4th_millennium_BC)E, near-simultaneously in Mesopotamia, the Northern Caucasus (Maykop culture (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/wiki/Maykop_culture)) and Central Europe, and so the question of which culture originally invented the wheeled vehicle remains unresolved and under debate. The earliest well-dated depiction of a wheeled vehicle (here a wagon—four wheels, two axles), is on the Bronocice pot (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/wiki/Bronocice_pot), a ca. 3500–3350 BCE clay pot excavated in a Funnelbeaker culture (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/wiki/Funnelbeaker_culture) settlement in southern Poland.


The earliest known Egyptian pyramid is the Pyramid of Djoser (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/wiki/Pyramid_of_Djoser) (constructed 2630 BCE–2611 BCE) which was built during the third dynasty (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/wiki/Third_dynasty_of_Egypt). This pyramid and its surrounding complex were designed by the architect Imhotep (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/wiki/Imhotep), and are generally considered to be the world's oldest monumental structures constructed of dressed masonry.


And, further, the concept of a wheel, with a round thing the spins around an axle, isn't strictly necessary to the concept of a roller, where you put something heavy on something that can roll, and then roll it along the ground to help you move the heavy thing.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 02:37 PM
But the pyramids we're discussing aren't in Sumer, are they.

And the concept of not depicting Gods isn't exactly new... But I'm not talking about pictures, I'm talking about not even discussing that they came down from the sky and built a pyramid or whatever. Nothing about that.

You've also got the very long construction period of the Pyramids and other Egyptian architecture to deal with. It's not like we think all the pyramids were built within the same 10 year period or anything. Nope. Spread out across centuries. How long did the aliens hang out here building pyramids for a bunch of savages? Why?

Let's face it, it's just wildly unlikely.

There's no direct evidence fo alien involvement. No proof. At best there are a few areas of uncertainty as to how, exactly, the ancient Egyptians did it. It's waaaaay too big a leap to go from "not quite sure about" to "Aliens!!"

Let me connect a dot for you. It was prohibited to depict the "Gods" as they were. Therefore you saw the act of putting animal heads on a God's body and such. This does carry over from Sumer to Egypt and I am sure other civilizations as well.

And to address the entire "savages" comment. Perhaps technologies were given to us to make us less savage and more civilized? Perhaps aliens came to this planet in search of resources or possible habitation and determined it wasn't meeting their requirements or were unable to carry out their initial plans for whatever reasons? There are too many references from the Bible to artifacts and what have you to simply rule out any sort of alien intervention.

dirk digler
06-16-2010, 02:37 PM
And let me further add, I truly believe in the possibilty that "aliens" being several hundred millions of years more advanced than us could very well have seeded life on this planet. A civilization that advanced would understand that life on a particular planet is temporary and very well could be aiding in the colonization of planets that are inhabitable as they find them. I know, far fetched but not out of the realm of possibility. There is nothing to say we weren't seeded here and given certain technologies to help what we call mankind once we as a species had evolved to a point certain intelligence.

pete I seriously worry about you sometimes. You need to get out more.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 02:38 PM
Apparently they do.






And, further, the concept of a wheel, with a round thing the spins around an axle, isn't strictly necessary to the concept of a roller, where you put something heavy on something that can roll, and then roll it along the ground to help you move the heavy thing.

If you are trying to imply the Egyptians used trees as rollers I would argue that is not the case.

Amnorix
06-16-2010, 02:39 PM
Again you go from the extremely logical to the extremely dumb. Who is to say they built them and built them for themselves? Who is to say, if we were indeed visted which I believe evidence clearly shows we have been, they weren't passing a technology onto us for whatever reason? This is my problem with most non-believers. It's not that you don't necessarily believe, it's the way you presnt your argument for not believing.

The technology of building absurdly huge burial chambers out of rock?

Aliens came all this way to give us a fantastically useless technology?

Believe me, your argument isn't winning any followers. It doesn't really qualify as an argument at all. A couple negative implications to reach for the most far-fetched conclusion possible isn't a great argument.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 02:40 PM
pete I seriously worry about you sometimes. You need to get out more.

I think maybe I get out too much for some. The fact that I entertain such theories reminds me of the fact that we don't know and anything can be possible. For us to just write off certain theories as non-sense is arrogant and ignorant.

And truth be told, I find it much more believable, however far out it may be, that life was possibly seeded on this planet by aliens than I do that some all-mighty being waved his wand and poof, man was created.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 02:41 PM
The technology of building absurdly huge burial chambers out of rock?

Aliens came all this way to give us a fantastically useless technology?

Believe me, your argument isn't winning any followers. It doesn't really qualify as an argument at all. A couple negative implications to reach for the most far-fetched conclusion possible isn't a great argument.

They aren't burial chambers. This has more ore less been proven. All the burials found in the Pyramids have more or less been proven to be intrusive and done long after the Pyramids were created.

I guess your argument is better...."aliens just wouldn't have come here for whatever reason. I just can't see why they would do that".

That makes a lot more sense to me.


Did you even read the link on GizaPower? I am not saying this is fact but there is clear, scientific evidence that the Pyramids may certainly have been built as a power plant, for lack of a better term.

Amnorix
06-16-2010, 02:42 PM
Really? Ya think so? Then why do we have reference dating back to the beginning of the Bible of being visited by "Gods"? Why do we have "Gods" and "Angels" flying around in chariots of fire? Why do we have ancient artifacts dating back to even the Sumarians that seem to depict humanoids in space suits, for lack of a better term?

If you truly believe there are aliens then you have to understand that just because we are the way we are for the reasons we are as humans, doesn't mean they are just like us in motive and such.

Dragons and alot of other things are also common to a number of cultures but are completely unproven as well.

Dave Lane
06-16-2010, 02:43 PM
Evidence shows that some who had worked with or tampered with the Ark suffered from symptoms that imply radiation sickness, losing their nails and hair.

Are you serious or did you drop acid this morning?

Amnorix
06-16-2010, 02:44 PM
And let me further add, I truly believe in the possibilty that "aliens" being several hundred millions of years more advanced than us could very well have seeded life on this planet. A civilization that advanced would understand that life on a particular planet is temporary and very well could be aiding in the colonization of planets that are inhabitable as they find them. I know, far fetched but not out of the realm of possibility. There is nothing to say we weren't seeded here and given certain technologies to help what we call mankind once we as a species had evolved to a point certain intelligence.

I don't want to knock the whole seeded thing out, because it's at least remotely plausible. But given the fossil records and what seems to be the sheer improbability of advanced lifeforms dropping off some relatives and somehow having them revert to cave drawings, it's seems a stretch.

dirk digler
06-16-2010, 02:44 PM
I think maybe I get out too much for some. The fact that I entertain such theories reminds me of the fact that we don't know and anything can be possible. For us to just write off certain theories as non-sense is arrogant and ignorant.

And truth be told, I find it much more believable, however far out it may be, that life was possibly seeded on this planet by aliens than I do that some all-mighty being waved his wand and poof, man was created.

I don't believe in some all-mighty waving his hands and man was created. I am a firm believer in evolution.

Not that I don't believe in alien life because I do but the idea aliens seeded life here is a little out there even for me.

Amnorix
06-16-2010, 02:46 PM
If you are trying to imply the Egyptians used trees as rollers I would argue that is not the case.

Ok.

If you're trying to imply that ancient aliens came here and spent a few millenium doing nothing but building some interesting architecture and avoiding leaving any hard evidence fo their presence behind I would argue that is not the case.


And besides, doesn't have to be trees. Could be stone.

Amnorix
06-16-2010, 02:47 PM
They aren't burial chambers. This has more ore less been proven. All the burials found in the Pyramids have more or less been proven to be intrusive and done long after the Pyramids were created.


:eek:

Ok, time to stop. You've basically completely left the realm of rational discussion.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 02:48 PM
Ok.

If you're trying to imply that ancient aliens came here and spent a few millenium doing nothing but building some interesting architecture and avoiding leaving any hard evidence fo their presence behind I would argue that is not the case.


And besides, doesn't have to be trees. Could be stone.

Who says they spent milleniums here? This is my point, you make such gross assumptions it would humorous if I didn't know you were being serious.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 02:49 PM
:eek:

Ok, time to stop. You've basically completely left the realm of rational discussion.

No, you've basically sucked up the mainstream BS that we have been told. And I will take it that you indeed have not read the GizaPower link. Or you wouldn't be so quick to make such a statement.

dirk digler
06-16-2010, 02:49 PM
Sounds plausible to me



http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080328104302.htm

For centuries, people have theorized how the great pyramids were built. Some have suggested that they must have been constructed by extraterrestrials, while others believe the Egyptians possessed a technology that has been lost through the ages.

But the process of building pyramids, while complicated, was not as colossal an undertaking as many of us believe, Redford says. Estimates suggest that between 20,000 and 30,000 laborers were needed to build the Great Pyramid at Giza in less than 23 years. By comparison, Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris took almost 200 years to complete.

According to Redford, ancient Egyptian quarrying methods -- the processes for cutting and removing stone -- are still being studied. Scholars have found evidence that copper chisels were using for quarrying sandstone and limestone, for example, but harder stones such as granite and diorite would have required stronger materials, said Redford. Dolerite, a hard, black igneous rock, was used in the quarries of Aswan to remove granite.

During excavation, massive dolerite "pounders" were used to pulverize the stone around the edge of the granite block that needed to be extracted. According to Redford, 60 to 70 men would pound out the stone. At the bottom, they rammed wooden pegs into slots they had cut, and filled the slots with water. The pegs would expand, splitting the stone, and the block was then slid down onto a waiting boat.
Teams of oxen or manpower were used to drag the stones on a prepared slipway that was lubricated with oil. Said Redford, a scene from a 19th century B.C. tomb in Middle Egypt depicts "an alabaster statue 20 feet high pulled by 173 men on four ropes with a man lubricating the slipway as the pulling went on."

Once the stones were at the construction site, ramps were built to get them into place on the pyramid, said Redford. These ramps were made of mud brick and coated with chips of plaster to harden the surface. "If they consistently raised the ramp course by course as the teams dragged their blocks up, they could have gotten them into place fairly easily," he noted. At least one such ramp still exists, he said.

When answering to skepticism about how such heavy stones could have been moved without machinery, Redford says, "I usually show the skeptic a picture of 20 of my workers at an archaeological dig site pulling up a two-and-a-half ton granite block." He added, "I know it's possible because I was on the ropes too."

Detoxing
06-16-2010, 02:51 PM
I don't believe in some all-mighty waving his hands and man was created. I am a firm believer in evolution.

Not that I don't believe in alien life because I do but the idea aliens seeded life here is a little out there even for me.

The Ancient Aliens theory tries to plug the hole in the theory of evolution. They claim that there is no missing link because the link is genetically engineered.

Fish
06-16-2010, 02:53 PM
Really? Ya think so? Then why do we have reference dating back to the beginning of the Bible of being visited by "Gods"? Why do we have "Gods" and "Angels" flying around in chariots of fire? Why do we have ancient artifacts dating back to even the Sumarians that seem to depict humanoids in space suits, for lack of a better term?

If you truly believe there are aliens then you have to understand that just because we are the way we are for the reasons we are as humans, doesn't mean they are just like us in motive and such.

Uhh... that's the psychological process behind religion. To give human attributes to things we don't understand. Early humans had no concept of their own origin. It was a mystery, which of course brought about lots of speculation and imaginative ideas. To early humans, "Gods" or creators had to live somewhere where they couldn't because they couldn't obviously see them. Logically that would mean from the heavens. In part because of the amazing astronomical sights early civilizations saw back then. Perfectly clear skies with zero light pollution. Consider what an eclipse, or a comet, or a falling star would have meant to an early civilization. It's not difficult to think they would look up and dream of things they had no explanation for to justify what they saw in the night sky. You could very easily attribute "Gods" and "Angels" to falling stars, or meteorites. "Someone" must be causing that action in the heavens where those people couldn't venture. It must be great and powerful beings doing that right? Cause humans couldn't cause that.

And humanoid looking depictions in "Space suits" could just as easily be attributed to humans dressed in crazy ceremonial garb. Which was very very common.

Alien: http://havenkimmel.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/aztecsexhibitpixweb.jpg

Alien: http://www.travelswithsheila.com/mini-tribe4a.jpg

Chief Alien: http://education.eastmanhouse.org/discover/kits/images/9/thumbs/197200010048.jpg

Bizarre dress was a sign of significance.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 02:53 PM
Sounds plausible to me

What are his ropes connected too? I know this is the typical, mainstream theory on how they were built but there are still too many questions and people way smarter than I am who say it simply wasn't that easy.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 02:56 PM
Uhh... that's the psychological process behind religion. To give human attributes to things we don't understand. Early humans had no concept of their own origin. It was a mystery, which of course brought about lots of speculation and imaginative ideas. To early humans, "Gods" or creators had to live somewhere where they couldn't because they couldn't obviously see them. Logically that would mean from the heavens. In part because of the amazing astronomical sights early civilizations saw back then. Perfectly clear skies with zero light pollution. Consider what an eclipse, or a comet, or a falling star would have meant to an early civilization. It's not difficult to think they would look up and dream of things they had no explanation for to justify what they saw in the night sky. You could very easily attribute "Gods" and "Angels" to falling stars, or meteorites. "Someone" must be causing that action in the heavens where those people couldn't venture. It must be great and powerful beings doing that right? Cause humans couldn't cause that.

And humanoid looking depictions in "Space suits" could just as easily be attributed to humans dressed in crazy ceremonial garb. Which was very very common.

Alien: http://havenkimmel.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/aztecsexhibitpixweb.jpg

Alien: http://www.travelswithsheila.com/mini-tribe4a.jpg

Chief Alien: http://education.eastmanhouse.org/discover/kits/images/9/thumbs/197200010048.jpg

Bizarre dress was a sign of significance.

Well, you're wrong on several accounts. First off, there are references of the Gods coming down from the heavens to visit us. Most usually via some sort of craft. so to use your own argument, what would the ignorance people call an alien who came down in a spaceship? I would bet a God was one of the first things that came into their feeble minds.

Secondly the artifacts I am talking about depict in detail what appear to be helmest close to what our astronauts where as well as suits with tubes as etc. The pcitures you chose to use hurt your argument even more as they are not even close to what I am talking about.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 03:00 PM
Fish, here is one of many artifacts I am talking about. One could say they were modeled after a bird except the tail fin blows that all to hell.

http://www.ceticismoaberto.com/imagens2/jato1.jpg

petegz28
06-16-2010, 03:02 PM
Fish, Here is a pic of a Sumerian artifact found...

http://www.dudeman.net/siriusly/ufo/idol/malachim.jpg

Dave Lane
06-16-2010, 03:03 PM
There is this thing called abstract art. You may have heard of it or not.

Dave Lane
06-16-2010, 03:05 PM
You wanna see aliens take a look at Dali's work.

Dave Lane
06-16-2010, 03:06 PM
Not sure if this is an alien or not...

petegz28
06-16-2010, 03:07 PM
Some more Sumerian artifacts..

http://www.dudeman.net/siriusly/ufo/idol/reptilian-female.jpg

http://www.dudeman.net/siriusly/ufo/idol/reptilian-male.jpg

Detoxing
06-16-2010, 03:08 PM
Fish, here is one of many artifacts I am talking about. One could say they were modeled after a bird except the tail fin blows that all to hell.

http://www.ceticismoaberto.com/imagens2/jato1.jpg

looks like a flying penis.

Seriously though, there are a lot of interesting points to be made regarding Ancient Aliens, but in order to gain some real ground they need to tie up some of these loose ends.

The main issue I have with the theory is the time frame. There is just too much time spread out between cultures, and if these Aliens were here for any substantial amount of time, you would think we would have MORE evidence than what we do.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 03:09 PM
There is this thing called abstract art. You may have heard of it or not.

Yeah, except that isn't abstract. I know, I know, their abstract art just so happens to depcit almost 100% a flying machine. Right down to the tail.

Fish
06-16-2010, 03:09 PM
Fish, here is one of many artifacts I am talking about. One could say they were modeled after a bird except the tail fin blows that all to hell.

http://www.ceticismoaberto.com/imagens2/jato1.jpg

You mean a vertical tail fin like a grackle? http://www.jrcompton.com/photos/The_Birds/J/April-07jpix/JR74392-grack-fritz.jpg

Or a chicken? http://www.jrcompton.com/photos/The_Birds/J/April-07jpix/JR75050-churkey-cross-rd.jpg

Or a pin tail duck? http://www.brandywinezoo.org/images/Pintail.jpg

Or a mockingbird? http://www.jrcompton.com/photos/The_Birds/J/March-10-/tail-up-mock-JR6_3552.jpg

Yeah... Mr. Tsoukalas... there's no way something like that could be found in nature... must be alien airplanes... that's the only other explanation..

Detoxing
06-16-2010, 03:09 PM
Some more Sumerian artifacts..

http://www.dudeman.net/siriusly/ufo/idol/reptilian-female.jpg

http://www.dudeman.net/siriusly/ufo/idol/reptilian-male.jpg

like I said before, it's the Sumerian's that really give this theory legs. With out that civilization, this theory wouldn't have much to stand on.

But, IMO, these are some damn good legs.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 03:10 PM
looks like a flying penis.

Seriously though, there are a lot of interesting points to be made regarding Ancient Aliens, but in order to gain some real ground they need to tie up some of these loose ends.

The main issue I have with the theory is the time frame. There is just too much time spread out between cultures, and if these Aliens were here for any substantial amount of time, you would think we would have MORE evidence than what we do.

Don't we? I think we have more evidence than some care to consider or may want to admit. Again, I will go back to referecnes in the Bible and some writings from biblical times that seem to prove we were indeed visited and communicated with by aliens.

Detoxing
06-16-2010, 03:13 PM
Don't we? I think we have more evidence than some care to consider or may want to admit. Again, I will go back to referecnes in the Bible and some writings from biblical times that seem to prove we were indeed visited and communicated with by aliens.

Linky?

petegz28
06-16-2010, 03:16 PM
Linky?

Just do a google on "aliens in the bible".

Also the Book of Enoch is another interesting one.

Detoxing
06-16-2010, 03:17 PM
The thing that makes this theory worth considering to me are the Sumerians. If they are the oldest civilization and their mythology is the first, than wouldn't it be safe to assume that most religions that came thereafter would take bits and pieces from them?

Wouldn't it be safe to say that they had the first, PURE encounters with any sort of "god" and anything thereafter could be based loosely on what the Sumerians saw?

Fish
06-16-2010, 03:20 PM
Fish, here is one of many artifacts I am talking about. One could say they were modeled after a bird except the tail fin blows that all to hell.

http://www.ceticismoaberto.com/imagens2/jato1.jpg

And another thing.... why would a supposed depiction of an ancient alien vessel be shaped like a 20th century airplane instead of the more well described saucer or cigar shaped UFO? How come no other UFO reports claim that a UFO looked exactly like a modern airplane?

petegz28
06-16-2010, 03:22 PM
The thing that makes this theory worth considering to me are the Sumerians. If they are the oldest civilization and their mythology is the first, than wouldn't it be safe to assume that most religions that came thereafter would take bits and pieces from them?

Wouldn't it be safe to say that they had the first, PURE encounters with any sort of "god" and anything thereafter could be based loosely on what the Sumerians saw?

I agree. And as I have stated earlier and even a Nobel Prize winner suggests, there is a theory that aliens seeded life here. And if you put yourself back in those times, if you saw a being descend "from the heavens" on a "chariot of fire" would you not immediatley call that a God or Angel to a lesser extent?

petegz28
06-16-2010, 03:24 PM
And another thing.... why would a supposed depiction of an ancient alien vessel be shaped like a 20th century airplane instead of the more well described saucer or cigar shaped UFO? How come no other UFO reports claim that a UFO looked exactly like a modern airplane?

There have been reports of triangular shaped UFO's. You have it all figured out, Fish. I will nominate you for an award. My vote, you have. :D

Fish
06-16-2010, 03:26 PM
I agree. And as I have stated earlier and even a Nobel Prize winner suggests, there is a theory that aliens seeded life here. And if you put yourself back in those times, if you saw a being descend "from the heavens" on a "chariot of fire" would you not immediatley call that a God or Angel to a lesser extent?

What would a being descending from the heavens in a chariot of fire look like? I wonder.....

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3dan3wM3rns&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3dan3wM3rns&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

petegz28
06-16-2010, 03:28 PM
What would a being descending from the heavens in a chariot of fire look like? I wonder.....

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3dan3wM3rns&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3dan3wM3rns&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

So then explain the whole rant about how a being came down from the heavens and spoke to whoever?


You're reaching now. If you want to continue to parse the argument go ahead. It's rather disingenuous though to do so.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 03:30 PM
I guess Elijah hopped onto one of these metors as he rode a chariot of fire into the heavens, eh Fish??? :D

Detoxing
06-16-2010, 03:32 PM
What would a being descending from the heavens in a chariot of fire look like? I wonder.....

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3dan3wM3rns&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3dan3wM3rns&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Yeah, that works, as we all know. but it doesn't explain their detailed descriptions of the beings that came from those "chariots of fire"

petegz28
06-16-2010, 03:33 PM
Flight - Descending

The fact that these vehicles are described as descending
show that they are coming from the sky / heaven.
They don't just appear suddenly from a void.

GOD DESCENDS
EXODUS 3:8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.
God descends to free the nation.

YHOVAH DESCENDS
EXODUS 19:11 And be ready against the third day: for the third day the Lord will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.
Yhovah tells Moses that he come down and land on Mount Sinai in front of the people.

YHOVAH DESCENDS WITH GREAT COMMOTION
EXODUS 19:18 And Mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.
Yhovah lands with great commotion.

YHOVAH LANDS ON THE MOUNTAIN
EXODUS 19:20 And the Lord came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the Lord called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up.
Moses goes up to the landing site on top of the mountain.

PLATFORM DESCENDS AND HOVERS
EXODUS 33:9 And it came to pass, as Moses entered into the tabernacle, the cloudy pillar descended, and stood at the door of the tabernacle, and the Lord talked with Moses. 10 And all the people saw the cloudy pillar stand at the tabernacle door: and all the people rose up and worshipped, every man in his tent door.
The craft that was hovering over the mountain now flies and hovers over the tabernacle. Yhovah speaks to Moses from it.

YHOVAH DESCENDS AND HOVERS
EXODUS 34:5 And the Lord descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord
Yhovah descends and placed himself there.

THE LORD DESCENDS TO TALK
NUMBERS 11:17 And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.
Yhovah descends to talk.

NUMBERS 11:25 And the Lord came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.
Yhovah descends in the flying craft and places the "spirit" over the elders.

NUMBERS 12:5 And the Lord came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.
Yhovah descends in the thunder cloud-like platform and hovers.

YHOVAH WILL DESCEND
1 SAMUEL 23:11 Will the men of Keilah deliver me up into his hand? will Saul come down, as thy servant hath heard? O LORD God of Israel, I beseech thee, tell thy servant. And the LORD said, He will come down.

CHARIOTS OF FIRE FROM THE SKY
2 KINGS 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, Lord, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the Lord opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha. 18 And when they came down to him, Elisha prayed unto the Lord, and said, Smite this people, I pray thee, with blindness. And he smote them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.
One or more flying objects descend to the ground and Elisha asks Yhovah to cause blindness to befall the surrounding army which he does.

YHOVAH DESCENDS WITH VAPORS AND LIGHTS
PSALMS 18:8 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it. 9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.
Vapors and lights accompany the descending solid craft.

YHOVAH DESCENDS
PSALMS 144:5 Bow thy heavens, O Lord, and come down: touch the mountains, and they shall smoke.
Yhovah descends.

YHOVAH'S ARMY DESCENDS TO FIGHT
ISAIAH 31:4 For thus hath the Lord spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the Lord of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.
The army of the sky descends to engage in a physical battle.

TEAR THE SKY AND DESCEND
ISAIAH 64:1 Oh that thou wouldest rend the heavens, that thou wouldest come down, that the mountains might flow down at thy presence,
Yhovah is asked to come down.

SHAKY LANDINGS
ISAIAH 64:3 When thou didst terrible things which we looked not for, thou camest down, the mountains flowed down at thy presence.
Flow down = quake.

GUARDIAN FROM THE SKY
DANIEL 4:13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;
A watcher comes down from the sky.

DANIEL 4:23 And whereas the king saw a watcherand an holy one comingdown from heaven, and saying, Hew the tree down, and destroy it; yet leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grassof the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven times pass over him;
Nebuchadnezzar is seeing this in a vision.

YHOVAH DESCENDS
MICAH 1:3 For, behold, the Lord cometh forth out of his place, and will come down, and tread upon the high places of the earth.
Yhovah will descend.

SPIRIT OF GOD DESCENDS
MATTHEW 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
The Spirit of God descends.

A GLARING WHITE ANGEL DESCENDS
MATTHEW 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. 3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: 4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
A great angel descends from the sky dressed in pure white clothing and shining.

A VOICE FROM THE SKY
MARK 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
The “Spirit” descended from the sky.

SPIRIT DESCENDS
LUKE 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
The sky opened. The Holy Spirit in a physical shape descends and the Father spoke. The Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit are the same force.

AN ANGEL FROM THE SKY
LUKE 22:43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
As following the forty-day desert fast an angel comes out of the sky and gives him aid. See Matthew 4:11

SPIRIT DESCENDS FROM THE SKY
JOHN 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
ThisSpirit appears to be some form of energy. See Acts 2:2

ANGELS ASCENDING AND DESCENDING
JOHN 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

ALL WHO ASCEND INTO THE SKY DESCEND
JOHN 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
No man has ascended into the sky without the action of Jesus who descended from the sky.

HE THAT COMES FROM THE SKY
JOHN 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
Jesus comes from above.

BREAD FROM THE SKY
JOHN 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Jesus is clearly saying that he is a spiritual likeness of manna, which also came as a gift from the sky.

JESUS DESCENDED FROM THE SKY
JOHN 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Jesus says he came from the sky.

JOHN 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Jesus is from the sky.

JOHN 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
Jesus came down from the sky.

JESUS IS FROM ABOVE
JOHN 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
Jesus came from above.

GOD DESCENDED
ACTS 7:34 I have seen, I have seen the affliction of my people which is in Egypt, and I have heard their groaning, and am come down to deliver them. And now come, I will send thee into Egypt.
Yhovah descends to rescue Israel.

AN APPARATUS DESCENDS FROM THE SKY
ACTS 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Peter sees craft descending from the sky. Vessel = apparatus.

AN APPARATUS DESCENDS FROM THE SKY
ACTS 11:5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
Peter describes the encounter mentioned in verse ACTS 10:11.

JESUS WILL DESCEND FROM THE SKY
1 THESSALONIANS 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first
Jesus will descend from the sky.

SPIRIT SENT DOWN FROM THE SKY
1 PETER 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
The Holy Spirit is sent down from the sky.

A CITY DESCENDS FROM THE SKY
REVELATIONS 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
A city will descend from the sky.

A BRILLIANT ANGEL DESCENDS FROM THE SKY
REVELATIONS 10:1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
An angel descends from heaven standing on a fiery platform. Pillar = base.

AN ANGEL FROM THE SKY SHINES RAYS OF LIGHT ON THE GROUND
REVELATIONS 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
An angel descending from the sky projects beams or rays of light to the ground.

AN ANGEL DESCENDS FROM THE SKY
REVELATIONS 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
An angel descends from the sky.

FIRE FROM THE SKY
REVELATIONS 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
A fire comes down from the sky.

A GREAT CITY DESCENDS FROM THE SKY
REVELATIONS 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
A great city descends out of the sky.

Fish
06-16-2010, 03:40 PM
So then explain the whole rant about how a being came down from the heavens and spoke to whoever?


You're reaching now. If you want to continue to parse the argument go ahead. It's rather disingenuous though to do so.

The same way people speak to God through burning bushes.

The same way that all species of the Earth could fit harmoniously in a single boat.

The same way an entire land's crops can be destroyed by tying torches to the tail of a fox.

The same way one fish can feed thousands.

The same way a sea can be parted on command.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 03:44 PM
The same way people speak to God through burning bushes.

The same way that all species of the Earth could fit harmoniously in a single boat.

The same way an entire land's crops can be destroyed by tying torches to the tail of a fox.

The same way one fish can feed thousands.

The same way a sea can be parted on command.

In other words you have no logical explanation and choose to believe some all-mighty spirit was the work of all this as opposed to physical beings.

Why does God need to "come down"? Why do all these Angels and even Jesus need to "descend"? And why always with such thunderous roar with smoke and fire and flashing lights?

Fish
06-16-2010, 03:52 PM
In other words you have no logical explanation and choose to believe some all-mighty spirit was the work of all this as opposed to physical beings.

Why does God need to "come down"? Why do all these Angels and even Jesus need to "descend"? And why always with such thunderous roar with smoke and fire and flashing lights?

LMAO.... what?

I'm saying that a lot of quotes from the Bible are obviously quite metaphoric. Including the ones you've posted above. Lots of people in today's society claim to speak to God directly. Do you believe each of them? Why are they not taken seriously by the majority?

Detoxing
06-16-2010, 03:53 PM
In other words you have no logical explanation and choose to believe some all-mighty spirit was the work of all this as opposed to physical beings.

Why does God need to "come down"? Why do all these Angels and even Jesus need to "descend"? And why always with such thunderous roar with smoke and fire and flashing lights?

God's flashy and likes to make an entrance?

petegz28
06-16-2010, 03:56 PM
LMAO.... what?

I'm saying that a lot of quotes from the Bible are obviously quite metaphoric. Including the ones you've posted above. Lots of people in today's society claim to speak to God directly. Do you believe each of them? Why are they not taken seriously by the majority?

So the Bible is full of BS? Is that your argument? And I would say that if someone today saw someone come down from the heavens in a vessel causing a thunderous roar and spewing smoke and fire you would call it an astronaut or alien.

Fish
06-16-2010, 03:57 PM
Supposed UFO's in Art... Explained....

<object width="480" height="385">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9WYzURYq1IY&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object>

<object width="480" height="385">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WaIjIwRooN4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object>

petegz28
06-16-2010, 04:05 PM
Supposed UFO's in Art... Explained....

<object width="480" height="385">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9WYzURYq1IY&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object>

<object width="480" height="385">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WaIjIwRooN4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object>

Seen em' already. But you have shown in some cases another point I bring up at times on a non-related topic, which is Christianity wreaks of Pagan religeon and tradition.

Fish
06-16-2010, 04:29 PM
Seen em' already. But you have shown in some cases another point I bring up at times on a non-related topic, which is Christianity wreaks of Pagan religeon and tradition.

That's very true. I don't dispute that at all. But you were just using direct Biblical quotes to support your opinion. Are you admitting to using information that you yourself doubt the origin of? :D

Fish
06-16-2010, 04:31 PM
Yeah, that works, as we all know. but it doesn't explain their detailed descriptions of the beings that came from those "chariots of fire"

My great aunt provides detailed descriptions of little purple elves that visit her while she's gardening. She doesn't have a garden. I can't explain that either.

Detoxing
06-16-2010, 04:45 PM
My great aunt provides detailed descriptions of little purple elves that visit her while she's gardening. She doesn't have a garden. I can't explain that either.

Does she do shrooms?

ok, lets say that we were created. Science can't prove otherwise right now. Not until they find this missing link, at least.

Then wouldn't it be best to trust the earliest civilization's records opposed to ones that came thousands of years later?

After all, wouldn't they know best? They were here first. We all know how much stories can change from person to person, let alone thousands of years down the line. So it wouldn't it make sense to trust something that the Sumerians say opposed to something the Christians say? especially since the christians, even thought they don't know it, "borrowed" some beliefs from the sumerians? Like Adamu vs Adam for example?

petegz28
06-16-2010, 05:23 PM
Does she do shrooms?

ok, lets say that we were created. Science can't prove otherwise right now. Not until they find this missing link, at least.

Then wouldn't it be best to trust the earliest civilization's records opposed to ones that came thousands of years later?

After all, wouldn't they know best? They were here first. We all know how much stories can change from person to person, let alone thousands of years down the line. So it wouldn't it make sense to trust something that the Sumerians say opposed to something the Christians say? especially since the christians, even thought they don't know it, "borrowed" some beliefs from the sumerians? Like Adamu vs Adam for example?

See, I kind of look at the whole Bible in regards to religeon and aliens and such as a movie based off of a book. It's been re-written to a certain producers' liking and not all of the characters are inlcuded. Some characters are modified or even evented to fit the movie.

Jenson71
06-16-2010, 06:31 PM
Fish, Here is a pic of a Sumerian artifact found...

http://www.dudeman.net/siriusly/ufo/idol/malachim.jpg

LOL

What are the chances that aliens from far off galaxies not only came here and built stuff, but look 99% like humans?

Have you no sense of plausibility?

petegz28
06-16-2010, 06:40 PM
LOL

What are the chances that aliens from far off galaxies not only came here and built stuff, but look 99% like humans?

Have you no sense of plausibility?

Well, Jenson, why wouldn't they? You do realize we are the way we are physically because of the environment we inhabit. Why would other intelligent life not be similar? You're the one who seems to lack a sense of plausibility.

VAChief
06-16-2010, 06:50 PM
Are you serious or did you drop acid this morning?

It worked for L.Ron Hubbard.

Jenson71
06-16-2010, 06:56 PM
Well, Jenson, why wouldn't they? You do realize we are the way we are physically because of the environment we inhabit. Why would other intelligent life not be similar? You're the one who seems to lack a sense of plausibility.

What are the chances the environment we inhabit turned out this way? Pretty slim. Like 1 in 100 trillion.

And now you're believing that another galaxy has an environment 99% like us so that it produces living things 99% like us.

But not only that. They came here. They built great machines and found the string theory. They traveled over the light years, the billions of miles from their planet to ours.

To build some things.

Then they left.

And this is more plausible to you then humans devising some great pulleys to move big rocks?

Do you know how stupid you sound?

petegz28
06-16-2010, 07:03 PM
What are the chances the environment we inhabit turned out this way? Pretty slim. Like 1 in 100 trillion.

And now you're believing that another galaxy has an environment 99% like us so that it produces living things 99% like us.

But not only that. They came here. They built great machines and found the string theory. They traveled over the light years, the billions of miles from their planet to ours.

To build some things.

Then they left.

And this is more plausible to you then humans devising some great pulleys to move big rocks?

Do you know how stupid you sound?

Dude, I know you are smart when it comes to religeon and I would say stick with it. Your assumption is so far off base about 1 in a 100 trillion it's ****ing insane. Either your math sucks or you are just talking out of your ass. Science has to this point shown us what requirements would be necessary for intelligent life to exist. So yes, Jenson, it is very plausible that in the vast universe there are several thousand if not millions of planets that would be similar to earth and the life forms similar as well. The rest of your post is just ignorant rambling about something you understand little of, obviously. You, my friend, you are the one sounding ignorant.

Jenson71
06-16-2010, 07:12 PM
Dude, I know you are smart when it comes to religeon and I would say stick with it. Your assumption is so far off base about 1 in a trillion it's ****ing insane. Science has to this point shown us what requirements would be necessary for intelligent life to exist. So yes, Jenson, it is very plausible that in the vast universe there are several thousand if not million planets that would be similar to earth. The rest of your post is just ignorant rambling about something you understand little of, obviously. You, my friend, you are the one sounding ignorant.

Dude, I know you've never been well-informed when it comes to any topic. Yes, there are more than likely other planets similar to earth, with water, trees, even things like humans.

But those are far, far, far away. You're too ignorant to understand how far away. It's almost as far away as you coming close to rationality. We're talking tremendous lengths that machines cannot get to.

The reality is that the closest planet nears earth that is similar to earth is billions and billions of light years away. The chances of humans getting there is so implausible that the idea makes for bad science fiction because it's so silly.

But you buy it. You buy it that this human-like civilization traveled the billions and billions of light years to make a couple of pyramids. This is plausible to you. People inventing pulleys to move the rocks? OH GOD! DOUBT IT!

But aliens that look like us!! HELL YEAH!

petegz28
06-16-2010, 07:17 PM
Dude, I know you've never been well-informed when it comes to any topic. Yes, there are more than likely other planets similar to earth, with water, trees, even things like humans.

But those are far, far, far away. You're too ignorant to understand how far away. It's almost as far away as you coming close to rationality. We're talking tremendous lengths that machines cannot get to.

The reality is that the closest planet nears earth that is similar to earth is billions and billions of light years away. The chances of humans getting there is so implausible that the idea makes for bad science fiction because it's so silly.

But you buy it. You buy it that this human-like civilization traveled the billions and billions of light years to make a couple of pyramids. This is plausible to you. People inventing pulleys to move the rocks? OH GOD! DOUBT IT!

But aliens that look like us!! HELL YEAH!

No, you're too ignorant to grasp the fact that just because we can't travel through space-time effectively doesn't mean a civilization millions if not billions of years older than us can't. I most certainly understand how far away things are. It is you that want to seem to claim you have the answers for everything when you dick about it. The reality, Jenson, is there are approximately500 billion galaxies. 100 billion stars alone in our little galaxy. Our galaxy is very young as far as the universe goes and our solar system and planet even younger. Yet you have the arrogance and ignorance to think because we can't do something no one else could??? LMAO We as a species know very, very little about the universe yet here you sit claiming what is and isn't impossible. That's a joke in and of itself.

So just because WE cannot create machines to travel such distances doesn't mean others cannot. That is where your ignorance glares. So spare me the whole, us humans can't do it so no one else can, cause it is as ignorant of an argument as they come. And arrogant for that matter. You know jack shit, obviously about such matters.

Jenson71
06-16-2010, 07:23 PM
No, you're too ignorant to grasp the fact that just because we can't travel through space-time effectively doesn't mean a civilization millions if not billions of years older than us can't. I most certainly understand how far away things are. It is you that want to seem to claim you have the answers for everything when you dick about it. 500 billion galaxies. 100 billion stars alone in our little galaxy. Our galaxy is very young as far as the universe goes and our solar system and planet even younger.

So just because WE cannot create machines to travel such distances doesn't mean others cannot. That is where your ignorance glares. So spare me the whole, us humans can't do it so no one else can, cause it is as ignorant of an argument as they come. And arrogant for that matter.

Oh I can fucking grasp your stupid games of "BUT THERE'S A CHANCE!!"

It's pathetic. It's conspiracy bullshit fed into morons like you. You don't get it. Most people with a mind prone to conspiracies have a hard time coming out of them. You probably think I'm one of them! I was set up by the aliens to doubt you!

Clean your act up. This is stupid. There is no evidence that aliens built the pyramids. NO FUCKING EVIDENCE. Do you understand what that means? And not only is there no evidence, IT'S A STUPID IDEA. You are in love with a stupid, stupid idea.

On the other hand, it is completely plausible that humans actually put together pulleys that built them. It's very certain that Egyptians were very good at math and engineering. Just because they lived 3000 years ago doesn't mean they were dumber than you.

You're a backwards moron.

Jenson71
06-16-2010, 07:27 PM
Yet you have the arrogance and ignorance to think because we can't do something no one else could??? LMAO

You have the stupidity to think that because the Egyptian pyramids are pretty great achievements, there is no way humans could have done it.

IT MUST HAVE BEEN ALIENS!

Maybe you don't have arrogance (at least in regards to the human mind), but you certainly have ignorance.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 07:29 PM
Oh I can ****ing grasp your stupid games of "BUT THERE'S A CHANCE!!"

It's pathetic. It's conspiracy bullshit fed into morons like you. You don't get it. Most people with a mind prone to conspiracies have a hard time coming out of them. You probably think I'm one of them! I was set up by the aliens to doubt you!

Clean your act up. This is stupid. There is no evidence that aliens built the pyramids. NO ****ING EVIDENCE. Do you understand what that means? And not only is there no evidence, IT'S A STUPID IDEA. You are in love with a stupid, stupid idea.

On the other hand, it is completely plausible that humans actually put together pulleys that built them. It's very certain that Egyptians were very good at math and engineering. Just because they lived 3000 years ago doesn't mean they were dumber than you.

You're a backwards moron.

Yeah, a pathetic conspiracy fed to morons like me. Got it. Kinda like how there is a super holy being sitting high above on his throne of gold watching down on us all, creating and terminating life with the wave of his hand. I never have claimed the aliens solely built the pyramids themselves. Once again your ignorance to it all shows in a more than obvious, glaring manner.


It never ceases to amaze me how people like you ignore historical texts yet tout the Bible. It's fucking beyond logic.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 07:29 PM
You have the stupidity to think that because the Egyptian pyramids are pretty great achievements, there is no way humans could have done it.

IT MUST HAVE BEEN ALIENS!

Maybe you don't have arrogance (at least in regards to the human mind), but you certainly have ignorance.

Never said humans didn't do it. You should read a little more or a little slower before you spout off such stupid comments.

Jenson71
06-16-2010, 07:32 PM
Never said humans didn't do it. You should read a little more or a little slower before you spout off such stupid comments.

What's the point of this game? Sorry. The fucking technologies the aliens gave us.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 07:34 PM
What's the point of this game? Sorry. The ****ing technologies the aliens gave us.

That's a possibility. And for such technology to riddle scholars to this day seems to say one cannot rule out such a thing.

Jenson71
06-16-2010, 07:38 PM
Yeah, a pathetic conspiracy fed to morons like me. Got it. Kinda like how there is a super holy being sitting high above on his throne of gold watching down on us all, creating and terminating life with the wave of his hand. I never have claimed the aliens solely built the pyramids themselves. Once again your ignorance to it all shows in a more than obvious, glaring manner.


It never ceases to amaze me how people like you ignore historical texts yet tout the Bible. It's ****ing beyond logic.

What historical texts am I ignoring?

Please spare us your foray into metaphysical philosophy, binary logic, and other issues and theories related to the concept of God. We have enough of your bullshit on how aliens helped build things on earth, and it's fucking painful enough.

Pete, you're a shining example of what's wrong with the History Channel. You show some uneducated idiot like yourself a 48 minute tv show, and suddenly they have all this information about the universe and how great achievements in human history were accomplished.

And they read historical texts.

Pete, you've never read a historical text, for fucking godssakes. The idea of you sitting around reading historical texts blows us all away. You're unemployed jerkoff with your GED who sits around home and watches cable news and occasional History Channel specials.

Go fuck yourself.

Jenson71
06-16-2010, 07:40 PM
That's a possibility. And for such technology to riddle scholars to this day seems to say one cannot rule out such a thing.

The Greeks had a Quinquereme warship. We haven't yet put one together in modern days. Must be aliens?

What other technology did the aliens help the Greeks out with? And what didn't the Greek historians mention these aliens that obviously helped build the Quinquereme?

This is what happens when a persons mind gets swept up by cable TV. They become drooling retards. Well done, pete. You are a classic example of how our parents were right.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 07:52 PM
The Greeks had a Quinquereme warship. We haven't yet put one together in modern days. Must be aliens?

What other technology did the aliens help the Greeks out with? And what didn't the Greek historians mention these aliens that obviously helped build the Quinquereme?

This is what happens when a persons mind gets swept up by cable TV. They become drooling retards. Well done, pete. You are a classic example of how our parents were right.

You got it all figured out, Jenson. There is nothing you don't know everything about. And you're a classic example of dumb **** kid that thinks he is smarter than everyone else cause he read a book. Someday you'll read a book on how to have a conversation like an adult. Something everyone else in this thread has managed to do save young Jenson.

Have fun, dickhead, I'm going to watch the Royals now.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 08:09 PM
Awww, look at that. Mr. Mature Jenson got his panties all wadded and sent me a neg rep telling me to go to hell. LMAO

You still have to sit at the kids' table, don't you?

petegz28
06-16-2010, 08:58 PM
What historical texts am I ignoring?

Please spare us your foray into metaphysical philosophy, binary logic, and other issues and theories related to the concept of God. We have enough of your bullshit on how aliens helped build things on earth, and it's ****ing painful enough.

Pete, you're a shining example of what's wrong with the History Channel. You show some uneducated idiot like yourself a 48 minute tv show, and suddenly they have all this information about the universe and how great achievements in human history were accomplished.

And they read historical texts.

Pete, you've never read a historical text, for ****ing godssakes. The idea of you sitting around reading historical texts blows us all away. You're unemployed jerkoff with your GED who sits around home and watches cable news and occasional History Channel specials.

Go **** yourself.

Stop, you're hurting my feelings. ROFL

You really are quite the insecure individual. I don't know, maybe Mommy and Daddy didn't hug you enough as child?

What's your little Psych 101 book say about people who feel they need to tear other's down to build themselves up??
LMAO

phisherman
06-16-2010, 08:59 PM
irony = jenson telling pete it's not possible that aliens helped w/ or built anything, while touting the bible as "fact"

petegz28
06-16-2010, 09:01 PM
irony = jenson telling pete it's not possible that aliens helped w/ or built anything, while touting the bible as "fact"

Sup, Dad??? How's the little one doing?

phisherman
06-16-2010, 09:03 PM
ahhh, doing very well...wearing poor dad out.

fwiw, though i don't always agree with you pete, i do think that it takes a lot of stones for us, as humans, to think that the end all, be all of industrious invention and technological progress is or has been made by us.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 09:06 PM
ahhh, doing very well...wearing poor dad out.

fwiw, though i don't always agree with you pete, i do think that it takes a lot of stones for us, as humans, to think that the end all, be all of industrious invention and technological progress is or has been made by us.

heh, we wouldn't get along as good as we do if you did always agree with me. It would be boring. BTW, I see Sprint has started laying people off again.

phisherman
06-16-2010, 09:09 PM
heh, we wouldn't get along as good as we do if you did always agree with me. It would be boring. BTW, I see Sprint has started laying people off again.

i saw that too.

same old song and dance.

you can't sustain numbers at all when prepaid is "the future of wireless". sure, try to employ that many people when your ARPU is cut in almost half.

i'm glad i'm out buddy. you'll never see me at a big company like that again.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 09:10 PM
i saw that too.

same old song and dance.

you can't sustain numbers at all when prepaid is "the future of wireless". sure, try to employ that many people when your ARPU is cut in almost half.

i'm glad i'm out buddy. you'll never see me at a big company like that again.

Same here. I miss it to a point but tht ship is sinking. I see Garmin is trying to fill your old position. I had an interview down at State Street on Monday. Hopefully something comes of that.

phisherman
06-16-2010, 09:12 PM
Same here. I miss it to a point but tht ship is sinking. I see Garmin is trying to fill your old position. I had an interview down at State Street on Monday. Hopefully something comes of that.

that'd be sweet. we don't have to go far to meet for lunch down in P&L, or maybe ponak's down on the Boulevard.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 09:15 PM
that'd be sweet. we don't have to go far to meet for lunch down in P&L, or maybe ponak's down on the Boulevard.

Yeah, I almost called you to see if you wanted to meet up for lunch but the interview ran long. Hopefully that is a good sign. It's for doing server deployments and they want someone with 2003\2008 experience. So that is against me but the HR guy thought my previous server experience would bode well for me. They also have anothr posittion I am looking at, but it would be a career change. Not sure I can cope with entry level pay but it would get my foot in the door with derivatives. You know me and the financial markets. It would at least be doing something I love even though the pay would suck ass.

notorious
06-16-2010, 09:40 PM
A wacky theory of mine is that Aliens left bacteria behind on Earth that eventually evolved into everything we see today.


When we sent an instrument to the moon in the 60's it was retrieved by Astronauts and brought back to Earth. They discovered bacteria in the instrument that had been "placed" there by a scientist that sneezed. The bacteria layed dormant for years on the moon, but when it was brought back to Earth, the bacteria came back to life.


What if Aliens visited the Earth, which could have resembled Mars back then, and left some bacteria behind that became dormant? Eventually the Earth would warm and thaw out the bacteria, and ta-da, you have life.


Crazy, but possible.

petegz28
06-16-2010, 09:50 PM
A wacky theory of mine is that Aliens left bacteria behind on Earth that eventually evolved into everything we see today.


When we sent an instrument to the moon in the 60's it was retrieved by Astronauts and brought back to Earth. They discovered bacteria in the instrument that had been "placed" there by a scientist that sneezed. The bacteria layed dormant for years on the moon, but when it was brought back to Earth, the bacteria came back to life.


What if Aliens visited the Earth, which could have resembled Mars back then, and left some bacteria behind that became dormant? Eventually the Earth would warm and thaw out the bacteria, and ta-da, you have life.


Crazy, but possible.

Not so crazy. A Nobel Prize winner actually shares a similar theory. Also there is the theory that building blocks of life were deposited on the planet from an asteroid. Who is to say it had to come from an asteroid? But your theory is far from whack. There is nothing to say there were not exploration teams of alien civilizations exploring our solar system much the same way as we explore space.

Jenson71
06-16-2010, 09:53 PM
irony = jenson telling pete it's not possible that aliens helped w/ or built anything, while touting the bible as "fact"

Do you build most of your arguments on blind assumptions, or is this a rare occurrence?

Taco John
06-16-2010, 10:48 PM
What are the chances the environment we inhabit turned out this way? Pretty slim. Like 1 in 100 trillion.

And now you're believing that another galaxy has an environment 99% like us so that it produces living things 99% like us.

But not only that. They came here. They built great machines and found the string theory. They traveled over the light years, the billions of miles from their planet to ours.

To build some things.

Then they left.

And this is more plausible to you then humans devising some great pulleys to move big rocks?

Do you know how stupid you sound?



You make a real decent point... Right up to the part where you found it plausible that primative men devised great pulleys that could perform engineering feats that we can't duplicate to this day - and then called someone else stupid.

Not that I"m saying either of you are stupid. I just can't figure it. It does not compute.

Have you read Graham Hancock's "Fingerprints of the Gods?" He takes a very scientific approach to these types of phenomenon and is a fascinating read.

phisherman
06-17-2010, 06:55 AM
Do you build most of your arguments on blind assumptions, or is this a rare occurrence?

I've read your posts for years sir.

You seem to know everything about everything. That's not a stretch to say either. I have watched you go toe to toe with many posters and I may go as far as saying that you're something of a know it all. Nothing wrong with that, but I do have a feeling that in 10 years maybe you'll read some of your old posts and realize that you didn't know as much as you thought you did.

notorious
06-17-2010, 06:55 AM
But not only that. They came here. They built great machines and found the string theory. They traveled over the light years, the billions of miles from their planet to ours.

To build some things.




I am not saying that the pyramids were built by aliens, but if they were they wouldn't have built them to just to do it.

They probably had a use for them.

The reasons for coming to Earth are plentiful, too.

Hog Farmer
06-17-2010, 07:16 AM
Don't worry Pete, 2012 will be here soon and after the Lizard Gods have raped us all again hopefully we'll still have the internet and we can log in to tell these dummies "I told you so"

notorious
06-17-2010, 07:23 AM
While thinking that Aliens built the Pyramids is very cool, I am of the opinion that people did it.


I like the saying off of the movie Apollo 13:

"Give me a lever long enough and I can move the World."

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 08:38 AM
I've read your posts for years sir.

You may have read my posts on my thoughts on the Bible, but it's clear you haven't understood them. I hope that in ten years you can look back at your previous post in this thread and realize how off-base it was.

petegz28
06-17-2010, 08:42 AM
Don't worry Pete, 2012 will be here soon and after the Lizard Gods have raped us all again hopefully we'll still have the internet and we can log in to tell these dummies "I told you so"

Damn skippy!!! ROFL

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 08:52 AM
You make a real decent point... Right up to the part where you found it plausible that primative men devised great pulleys that could perform engineering feats that we can't duplicate to this day - and then called someone else stupid.

LMAO

Do you know what is meant by "plausible"? Should we be surprised at you finding an almost universally accepted (and accepted by every actual historian, especially Egyptian historians, with a degree in the field) idea -- that the Egyptians performed engineering feats to move great rocks themselves with their own methods that we could duplicate to this day if we had thousands of slaves around -- implausible?

We should be surprised. You aren't this uneducated and lacking in sense.

It is completely plausible that Egyptians built the pyramids with their own ideas and their own technologies. Here's a little wiki article about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramid_construction_techniques

It is stunning that people come in here and say "Oh, ancient people moving rocks with pulleys and ramps and other simple devices? Sounds implausible.

But aliens helping to set them up? OH YEAH. THAT SOUNDS BOUT RIGHT."

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 08:58 AM
Was it ramps? http://www.archaeology.org/0705/etc/pyramid.html

Ha! Implausible. Just another implausible idea from a professional archaeology organization.

Was it aliens? NOW THAT SOUNDS BOUT RIGHT!

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 08:59 AM
Drexel University -- PROPAGATING THE IMPLAUSIBLE MYTH, GUYS!!!

http://www.materials.drexel.edu/Pyramids/

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 09:00 AM
Rope rolls? Sledges on tracks? http://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/pyramid-building.html

CRAZY!

Aliens?

YA BETCHA.

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 09:03 AM
Beware: something silly, implausible, and just utterly ridiculous has been spread by the Center for Integrating Information on Structural Engineering. http://www.thestructuralengineer.info/?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=77

We need more serious scholarship on the pyramids. We need more alien stories!

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 09:05 AM
Another goon who can't face the facts: http://khufu.3ds.com/introduction/

Doesn't he realize how implausible it is? Doesn't he realize that the best explanation is aliens?

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 09:08 AM
You seem to know everything about everything. That's not a stretch to say either. I have watched you go toe to toe with many posters and I may go as far as saying that you're something of a know it all. Nothing wrong with that, but I do have a feeling that in 10 years maybe you'll read some of your old posts and realize that you didn't know as much as you thought you did.

I try to post about things I already have some basis of knowledge in. So that skews that data of me looking like I know everything about everything. Often, I just look good.

You should read pete's posts. He posts about everything and knows pretty much nothing. It's pretty incredible.

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 09:18 AM
You got it all figured out, Jenson. There is nothing you don't know everything about. And you're a classic example of dumb **** kid that thinks he is smarter than everyone else cause he read a book.

And you're that guy who thinks age is the best indicator of worth. Why? Cause that's all you got pete. That's all you got on me. Age. You sit here and spew your uneducated, cable-TV driven bullshit about aliens and manna machines, and ultimately, the fact that you are older than me is going to be your only fallback.

It happens everytime in our arguments/spats. You're an unemployed, uneducated couch potato. But you're 38!

Well bravo for managing to survive that long. Really. Well done.

Awww, look at that. Mr. Mature Jenson got his panties all wadded and sent me a neg rep telling me to go to hell. LMAO

You still have to sit at the kids' table, don't you?

Yes. That's why I come here and talk trash about your stupid ideas. Because at family gatherings, I have to sit next to my younger cousins.

As soon as I rep other people, I'll come back and neg rep you more. Because it's just so cute when you cry.

Stop, you're hurting my feelings. ROFL

You really are quite the insecure individual. I don't know, maybe Mommy and Daddy didn't hug you enough as child?

What's your little Psych 101 book say about people who feel they need to tear other's down to build themselves up??
LMAO

Would you know something about Psychology, pete? Did you watch a TLC show about it?

petegz28
06-17-2010, 09:35 AM
Jenson is in full blown temper tantrum mode. LMAO

FAX
06-17-2010, 09:43 AM
What America needs right now is a good five dollar pulley.

FAX

Detoxing
06-17-2010, 09:43 AM
Damn Jenson, this thread isn't worth having a freaking heart attack over, lol.

FAX
06-17-2010, 09:48 AM
I'm pretty sure that if pyramids were square, ancient humans could build some. But they're not. They're more triangularish. That's alien. All the way.

FAX

Fat Elvis
06-17-2010, 09:57 AM
The Greeks had a Quinquereme warship. We haven't yet put one together in modern days. Must be aliens?

What other technology did the aliens help the Greeks out with? And what didn't the Greek historians mention these aliens that obviously helped build the Quinquereme?

This is what happens when a persons mind gets swept up by cable TV. They become drooling retards. Well done, pete. You are a classic example of how our parents were right.

I try to post about things I already have some basis of knowledge in. So that skews that data of me looking like I know everything about everything. Often, I just look good.



<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MDthMGtZKa4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MDthMGtZKa4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

petegz28
06-17-2010, 10:00 AM
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MDthMGtZKa4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MDthMGtZKa4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

And he didn't even get his jacket wet!!!!

petegz28
06-17-2010, 10:14 AM
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MDthMGtZKa4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MDthMGtZKa4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

I have to add an off-topic comment here. Isn't it amazing how Winkler went from playing the bad-ass "Fonzie" to roles where he was a total whimp? ROFL

phisherman
06-17-2010, 10:36 AM
I try to post about things I already have some basis of knowledge in. So that skews that data of me looking like I know everything about everything. Often, I just look good.

You should read pete's posts. He posts about everything and knows pretty much nothing. It's pretty incredible.

your meltdown posts more or less confirm my final thought on you jenson.

you have a closed mind. if it doesn't sound plausible to you, or if you haven't read it in a book, then you see no possible way that it could be true.

sure, you can be that way. but i don't remember pete ever saying that any of this is 100% true; only that it is a possiblity.

so who really comes out sounding like the uneducated one?

by the way, i'm employed and i have a college degree. ROFL

petegz28
06-17-2010, 10:39 AM
your meltdown posts more or less confirm my final thought on you jenson.

you have a closed mind. if it doesn't sound plausible to you, or if you haven't read it in a book, then you see no possible way that it could be true.

sure, you can be that way. but i don't remember pete ever saying that any of this is 100% true; only that it is a possiblity.

so who really comes out sounding like the uneducated one?

by the way, i'm employed and i have a college degree. ROFL

LMAO

phisherman
06-17-2010, 10:48 AM
i could also add that i'm only 32, therefore pete is still smarter than i am, but i didn't want to seem disingenuous. :D

petegz28
06-17-2010, 10:50 AM
i could also add that i'm only 32, therefore pete is still smarter than i am, but i didn't want to seem disingenuous. :D

Ah, you're killing me, Smalls!

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 01:28 PM
irony = jenson telling pete it's not possible that aliens helped w/ or built anything, while touting the bible as "fact"

your meltdown posts more or less confirm my final thought on you jenson.

you have a closed mind. if it doesn't sound plausible to you, or if you haven't read it in a book, then you see no possible way that it could be true.

sure, you can be that way. but i don't remember pete ever saying that any of this is 100% true; only that it is a possiblity.

so who really comes out sounding like the uneducated one?

by the way, i'm employed and i have a college degree. ROFL

Unfortunately, you sound like the uneducated one.

I'll start with your pathetic post I quote first. Not many on this site have advocated a historical-analysis on the Bible as much as I have previously. You claim you have read my posts for years. I suspect you have more likely selectively read my posts for years. I have consistently debated the factuality of the Bible (a book I cherish and respect) using the framework of a modern Biblical historian, in the tradition of someone like Bart Ehrman, who has probably most influenced my views. For you to write that blanket statement was either completely deceptive or completely ignorant.

Secondly, for you to suggest that there are no facts in the Bible, or that the facts are as equally probable as aliens helping to build the pyramids, is incredibly ignorant. It displays a seriously dull, uneducated mind; one that has almost no historical understanding of the writings of the Bible and the context it was written in.

I don't expect pete to understand the moral issue at hand here. He's barely beyond a complete idiot. But I think it's imperative that someone with some schooling in the liberal arts has some respect for history, scholarship, science, and plausibility. Either you have failed your education, or it has failed you. But somehow, there is a disconnect.

This isn't just discussing possibilities. I now have to defend the idea of actual humans who used science and engineering to create great monuments as being more plausible than aliens coming down from other galaxies to show us how. Why am I the only one who thinks that is absurd?

Do you not understand the complete disregard of science, math, human ability, the human mind, that is going on here? It pains me, as a unashamed humanist, that modern man now views their own species as incapable of building pulleys and other modes of transportation to move rocks to form a great pyramid.

And this is also a complete disregard of historical scholarship, something deeply important to me. That this bullshit is on something that touts itself as The History Channel pisses me off even more.

I'll never be accused of living a life completely married to empirical evidence, like irishjayhawk, but I will never completely abandon its importance either, in almost all matters of life and scholarship and science. That many other people have is shameful, and represents a significant step backwards in human thought.

petegz28
06-17-2010, 01:32 PM
Unfortunately, you sound like the uneducated one.

I'll start with your pathetic post I quote first. Not many on this site have advocated a historical-analysis on the Bible as much as I have previously. You claim you have read my posts for years. I suspect you have more likely selectively read my posts for years. I have consistently debated the factuality of the Bible (a book I cherish and respect) using the framework of a modern Biblical historian, in the tradition of someone like Bart Ehrman, who has probably most influenced my views. For you to write that blanket statement was either completely deceptive or completely ignorant.

Secondly, for you to suggest that there are no facts in the Bible, or that the facts are as equally probable as aliens helping to build the pyramids, is incredibly ignorant. It displays a seriously dull, uneducated mind; one that has almost no historical understanding of the writings of the Bible and the context it was written in.

I don't expect pete to understand the moral issue at hand here. He's barely beyond a complete idiot. But I think it's imperative that someone with some schooling in the liberal arts has some respect for history, scholarship, science, and plausibility. Either you have failed your education, or it has failed you. But somehow, there is a disconnect.

This isn't just discussing possibilities. I now have to defend the idea of actual humans who used science and engineering to create great monuments as being more plausible than aliens coming down from other galaxies to show us how. Why am I the only one who thinks that is absurd?

Do you not understand the complete disregard of science, math, human ability, the human mind, that is going on here? It pains me, as a unashamed humanist, that modern man now views their own species as incapable of building pulleys and other modes of transportation to move rocks to form a great pyramid.

And this is also a complete disregard of historical scholarship, something deeply important to me. That this bullshit is on something that touts itself as The History Channel pisses me off even more.

I'll never be accused of living a life completely married to empirical evidence, like irishjayhawk, but I will never completely abandon its importance either, in almost all matters of life and scholarship and science. That many other people have is shameful, and represents a significant step backwards in human thought.

LMAO, Jenson you don't know when to quit.

BucEyedPea
06-17-2010, 01:34 PM
LMAO, Jenson you don't know when to quit.

They're like that at that age.

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 01:39 PM
LMAO, Jenson you don't know when to quit.

I know exactly when to quit. It's when the History Channel pulls the stupid show. It's when you own up to the idea that in reality, aliens almost certainly did not help the Egyptians build the pyramids. It's when Taco John says "Well shoot, maybe aliens helping is less plausible than actual humans doing the work."

That's when I'll ****ing quit. I'm not going to quit because it's too hard for you to respond. I'm not going to quit because it's not fun for you. I'm not going to quit because your feelings are hurt.

You ****ing piece of trash. Don't ever suggest you know when I should quit standing up for human beings who deserve it, who have worked hard, who have used their minds, who have advanced our civilization, and who have done great things.

phisherman
06-17-2010, 01:45 PM
you need to get a grip man.

your irrationality is what shows your age, not your views.

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 01:45 PM
And take your neg rep like a man, you bleeding vagina.

Fish
06-17-2010, 01:47 PM
So this thread has taken somewhat of a twist....

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 01:47 PM
you need to get a grip man.

your irrationality is what shows your age, not your views.

Irrationality?

I'm dealing with people who think it's more plausible that aliens (who look like us!) traveled billions of light years to our planet to help make the pyramids than actual Egyptians and slaves!

Irrationality!

Goddamn. What were you saying earlier about irony?

phisherman
06-17-2010, 01:48 PM
yes, and you sound like you're going off the deep end.

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 01:49 PM
I'm still interested in knowing which historical texts I've ignored, pete.

You know, because you've read them and can share them with us.

You probably read them in their original language too.

You're such a scholar, pete.

petegz28
06-17-2010, 01:49 PM
I know exactly when to quit. It's when the History Channel pulls the stupid show. It's when you own up to the idea that in reality, aliens almost certainly did not help the Egyptians build the pyramids. It's when Taco John says "Well shoot, maybe aliens helping is less plausible than actual humans doing the work."

That's when I'll ****ing quit. I'm not going to quit because it's too hard for you to respond. I'm not going to quit because it's not fun for you. I'm not going to quit because your feelings are hurt.

You ****ing piece of trash. Don't ever suggest you know when I should quit standing up for human beings who deserve it, who have worked hard, who have used their minds, who have advanced our civilization, and who have done great things.

Such the little hot headed brat you are. ROFL

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 01:50 PM
yes, and you sound like you're going off the deep end.

I'm using strong rhetoric to get my point across.

Rhetoric. Perfected by the Greeks.

(And aliens probably helped them with it! HEY THERES A CHANCE!)

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 01:52 PM
Lloyd Christmas: The Biography of Pete from Chiefsplanet

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KX5jNnDMfxA&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KX5jNnDMfxA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

petegz28
06-17-2010, 01:55 PM
I'm using strong rhetoric to get my point across.

Rhetoric. Perfected by the Greeks.

(And aliens probably helped them with it! HEY THERES A CHANCE!)

Coated with a heavy dose of immaturity.

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 01:56 PM
Coated with a heavy dose of immaturity.

Oh, you're so sophisticated and better than me, pete.

Probably the most mature comment was "You still sit at the kid's table." That was a classy cutdown.

petegz28
06-17-2010, 01:58 PM
Oh, you're so sophisticated and better than me, pete.

Probably the most mature comment was "You still sit at the kid's table." That was a classy cutdown.

When you act like a brat you'll be treated as such. Didn't your parents teach you anything?

My retort to your comments of my being "an uneducated, unemployed jerkoff" do leave a little to be desired to meet your standard of conversation, I know.

FAX
06-17-2010, 02:01 PM
Us humans rule!!!

FAX

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 02:01 PM
When you act like a brat you'll be treated as such. Didn't your parents teach you anything?

My retort to your comments of being "an uneducated, unemployed jerkoff" do leave a little to be desired to meet your standard of conversation, I know.

When you actually are an uneducated, unemployed jerkoff, that will often be pointed out to you. Your parents teach you something?

phisherman
06-17-2010, 02:02 PM
especially considering that he's not done with his degree yet and doesn't have a full time job; kind of sounds like he's the "uneducated, unemployed jerkoff".

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 02:02 PM
Us humans rule!!!

FAX

Damn straight. Even when we war. Or especially.

petegz28
06-17-2010, 02:03 PM
When you actually are an uneducated, unemployed jerkoff, that will often be pointed out to you. Your parents teach you something?

Yep, they sure did. They taught me most youngsters like you are full of themselves and full of shit at the same time. :D

FAX
06-17-2010, 02:03 PM
So this thread has taken somewhat of a twist....

Aliens invented that.

And the lime wedge, too.

FAX

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 02:04 PM
especially considering that he's not done with his degree yet and doesn't have a full time job; kind of sounds like he's the "uneducated, unemployed jerkoff".

Jerkoff? Far too often. Uneducated? Far too much (thought it's not because I lack a degree, which I have two of). Unemployed? Well, I detassel, but that won't start til July.

petegz28
06-17-2010, 02:05 PM
Aliens invented that.

And the lime wedge, too.

FAX

LMAO, I see what you did there, twist, lime wedge....:D

phisherman
06-17-2010, 02:06 PM
Jerkoff? Far too often. Uneducated? Far too much (thought it's not because I lack a degree, which I have two of). Unemployed? Well, I detassel, but that won't start til July.

so we agree!

petegz28
06-17-2010, 02:06 PM
especially considering that he's not done with his degree yet and doesn't have a full time job; kind of sounds like he's the "uneducated, unemployed jerkoff".

the irony of it all

Jenson71
06-17-2010, 02:06 PM
Aliens invented that.

And the lime wedge, too.

FAX

Chubby was abducted.

Jilly
06-17-2010, 02:14 PM
I always imagine Jenson having an English accent, that way when I feel he's being kind of arrogant, I can just blame it on him being British.

Hydrae
06-17-2010, 02:19 PM
I know exactly when to quit. It's when the History Channel pulls the stupid show. It's when you own up to the idea that in reality, aliens almost certainly did not help the Egyptians build the pyramids. It's when Taco John says "Well shoot, maybe aliens helping is less plausible than actual humans doing the work."

That's when I'll ****ing quit. I'm not going to quit because it's too hard for you to respond. I'm not going to quit because it's not fun for you. I'm not going to quit because your feelings are hurt.

You ****ing piece of trash. Don't ever suggest you know when I should quit standing up for human beings who deserve it, who have worked hard, who have used their minds, who have advanced our civilization, and who have done great things.

Just one quick comment (well, maybe two). I hope you don't hurt yourself when the day comes that you decide to get off that high horse of yours.

Speaking of high (;) ), with how violently you have reacted in this thread, may I suggest a toke or two? It will mellow you nicely and maybe you will learn that not everything in this world is black and white like the words in those highfalutin books you read. In other words, chill out.


Edit: BTW Jenson, I don't believe I have seen anywhere in this thread where anyone said this is the work of aliens. I see a lot of interesting discussion point of a "what if" variety. Adding to that discussion would probably be appreciated. Your constant attacks on the supplier of various ideas does nothing to strengthen you position or your reputation in thiis forum.

Ok, I am done now. Carry on as you please.

teedubya
06-17-2010, 02:24 PM
I've been studying sacred geometry lately... a couple years ago, I tripped on DMT, which is what your pineal gland produces and secretes each night when you are in your deepest sleep. They say the DMT is connection to the spiritual realm. And it is also why we NEED sleep. Anyway, when you have DMT in an awake state... all of this reality disappears... and vast interconnected geometric shapes surround you, until you cruise on to the other side. DMT is secreted when you are born... and a massive amount is secreted right when you die.

Apparently, this guy had a car wreck and it fucked up his brain... and every 5 days or so, his brain would secrete tons of DMT. So over the course of 5 years, he had about 300 near death experiences... and while on the other side, was able to connect the dots pertaining to sacred geometry and reality... and how to use it to harness energy...

But this sacred geometry may hold some secrets into energy rejuvenation.

or something.

I find it fascinating regardless.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3617/fusionpostcard2.jpg

petegz28
06-17-2010, 02:25 PM
I've been studying sacred geometry lately... a couple years ago, I tripped on DMT, which is what your pineal gland produces and secretes each night when you are in your deepest sleep. They say the DMT is connection to the spiritual realm. And it is also why we NEED sleep.

But this sacred geometry may hold some secrets into energy rejuvenation.

I find it fascinating regardless.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3617/fusionpostcard2.jpg

A hippy snowflake??? LMAO....../jk

FAX
06-17-2010, 02:30 PM
I see 4 tie-dyed siamese quadruplet clowns joined at the hip.

FAX

teedubya
06-17-2010, 02:32 PM
A hippy snowflake??? LMAO....../jk

I don't really understand this design... but it uses circles... and the radius of each circle is connected and makes a triangle.

It is using the colors of the spectrum for some reason... no clue though.

FAX
06-17-2010, 02:43 PM
Fractal geometry is very interesting. Supposedly, there are images of fractals in some ancient Egyptian tombs. Makes you wonder how those wacky Egyptians knew about fractals when they didn't have microscopes ... or did they ??????

OOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEE

FAX