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notorious
06-17-2010, 03:25 PM
Is it possible that the President spoke to BP early on, but they said they could handle it?

He put his trust in BP to fix the problem instead of getting the government involved (which is exactly what a lot of CP DC constantly ask for, including myself).

Once BP blundered several attempts at fixing the problem, it put Obama in a horrible position.

It really could be as simple as that.

petegz28
06-17-2010, 03:28 PM
I highly doubt it. Simply because this Admin. would have wasted no time telling us so to make them look like the hero.

HonestChieffan
06-17-2010, 03:29 PM
Who in government knows how to cap the leak? If they do why have they not told BP?

KC Dan
06-17-2010, 03:30 PM
My take is even easier.

1) Stop the leak
2) Clean up the effects

Stop playing political friggin' games on both sides and do #1 & 2. That is what needs to be done. After the leak is stopped, investigate and make sure it never happens again.

notorious
06-17-2010, 03:33 PM
My take is even easier.

1) Stop the leak
2) Clean up the effects




That is way to simple.


Why didn't we allow ships from other countries to help out? If it was because of Labor Unions then that is an absolutely pathetic excuse.


That was the gigantic blunder IMO.

banyon
06-17-2010, 03:45 PM
Is it possible that the President spoke to BP early on, but they said they could handle it?

He put his trust in BP to fix the problem instead of getting the government involved (which is exactly what a lot of CP DC constantly ask for, including myself).

Once BP blundered several attempts at fixing the problem, it put Obama in a horrible position.

It really could be as simple as that.

This was Carville's take and criticism that I posted some time back.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=228881&highlight=carville

Righties blamed me for "defending obama" after I said calling it "Katrina x 100" was maybe a little overboard.

notorious
06-17-2010, 03:50 PM
This was Carville's take and criticism that I posted some time back.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=228881&highlight=carville

Righties blamed me for "defending obama" after I said calling it "Katrina x 100" was maybe a little overboard.

I need to pay more attention.


My "Original" ideas aren't so original after all.....

Direckshun
06-17-2010, 04:16 PM
Who in government knows how to cap the leak? If they do why have they not told BP?

This is about right.

It's unreasonable to assume the government has any idea how to fix this problem now that it's happened. Although the government has been noticeably delinquent in preventing this kind of disaster from happening.

At this point, I'm not sure there's a whole ton that the government can do other than what it's done. This is BP's hog, unfortunately.

Taco John
06-17-2010, 05:21 PM
Is it possible that the President spoke to BP early on, but they said they could handle it?

He put his trust in BP to fix the problem instead of getting the government involved (which is exactly what a lot of CP DC constantly ask for, including myself).

Once BP blundered several attempts at fixing the problem, it put Obama in a horrible position.

It really could be as simple as that.



The problem with this is that this happened on federally owned and controlled land. Obama's admin gave these guys the permits without the right clearances. They cut corners. And then when things went wrong, the Obama admin threw their hands in the air and tried to distance themselves from this.

If you bring a plummer into your home, and give them permission to bypass safeties and put pipes under your house that end up accidentally spewing sewage into your house, you are going to share liability for the cleanup. Are you going to stand back and hope that the people who spewed the sewage onto your property gets the mess cleaned up, or are you going to start taking matters into your own hands?

The owner of the property has the ultimate liability here. It would be a much different story if the admin didn't sign off on this outside of the law. But that's exactly what they did: bypassed the law to allow them to drill without EPA approval.

orange
06-17-2010, 06:21 PM
The problem with this is that this happened on federally owned and controlled land. Obama's admin gave these guys the permits without the right clearances. They cut corners. And then when things went wrong, the Obama admin threw their hands in the air and tried to distance themselves from this.

If you bring a plummer into your home, and give them permission to bypass safeties and put pipes under your house that end up accidentally spewing sewage into your house, you are going to share liability for the cleanup. Are you going to stand back and hope that the people who spewed the sewage onto your property gets the mess cleaned up, or are you going to start taking matters into your own hands?

The owner of the property has the ultimate liability here. It would be a much different story if the admin didn't sign off on this outside of the law. But that's exactly what they did: bypassed the law to allow them to drill without EPA approval.

Bribing officials doesn't excuse you from obeying the law.

As BP is about to find out...

blaise
06-18-2010, 09:15 AM
Is it possible that the President spoke to BP early on, but they said they could handle it?

He put his trust in BP to fix the problem instead of getting the government involved (which is exactly what a lot of CP DC constantly ask for, including myself).

Once BP blundered several attempts at fixing the problem, it put Obama in a horrible position.

It really could be as simple as that.

That sounds right. That's why Obama shouldn't have been posting things like this on the White House website:

"He and Vice President Biden will take steps to ensure that the federal government will never again allow such catastrophic failures in emergency planning and response to occur."

In regards to Bush's handling of Katrina.

Taco John
06-18-2010, 11:47 AM
Bribing officials doesn't excuse you from obeying the law.

As BP is about to find out...



I'm not sure how much oil this statement is going to put back in the pipe. I'll check the live feed and let you know.

King_Chief_Fan
06-18-2010, 11:49 AM
Is it possible that the President spoke to BP early on, but they said they could handle it?

He put his trust in BP to fix the problem instead of getting the government involved (which is exactly what a lot of CP DC constantly ask for, including myself).

Once BP blundered several attempts at fixing the problem, it put Obama in a horrible position.

It really could be as simple as that.

I seriously doubt that.......If that would have been the case even Obama would have been smart enough to make the points you made.

HonestChieffan
06-18-2010, 12:20 PM
The key to this is keep the focus on BP and hope no one notices the dismal performance of the administration.

orange
06-18-2010, 02:19 PM
I'm not sure how much oil this statement is going to put back in the pipe. I'll check the live feed and let you know.

I must have missed your suggestions for putting the oil back in the pipe. I thought for some strange reason you were talking about liability.


:hmmm:

... the ultimate liability here ...

A strange reason indeed.

Taco John
06-18-2010, 02:22 PM
You mentioned bribing officials to bypass the law... If that's what truly happened, does not the government still have liability for their part in that crime? They are the ones who accepted the bribes, and authorized the drilling sans the lawful checks.

orange
06-18-2010, 02:49 PM
You mentioned bribing officials to bypass the law... If that's what truly happened, does not the government still have liability for their part in that crime? They are the ones who accepted the bribes, and authorized the drilling sans the lawful checks.

MMS scandal: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/washington/11royalty.html
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_15236764

The Minerals Management Service has been rife with corruption for years.

In general, I don't think an agency/govt. can be held liable for the illegal activities of its personnel. Like I said before, the company is still obligated to follow the law. Having your bribes accepted is not going to fly as a defense.


ah, here we go:

18 U.S.C. 218 : US Code - Section 218: Voiding transactions in violation of chapter; recovery by the United States

In addition to any other remedies provided by law the President
or, under regulations prescribed by him, the head of any department
or agency involved, may declare void and rescind any contract,
loan, grant, subsidy, license, right, permit, franchise, use,
authority, privilege, benefit, certificate, ruling, decision,
opinion, or rate schedule awarded, granted, paid, furnished, or
published, or the performance of any service or transfer or
delivery of any thing to, by or for any agency of the United States
or officer or employee of the United States or person acting on
behalf thereof, in relation to which there has been a final
conviction for any violation of this chapter, and the United States
shall be entitled to recover in addition to any penalty prescribed
by law or in a contract the amount expended or the thing
transferred or delivered on its behalf, or the reasonable value
thereof.

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/11/218

alnorth
06-18-2010, 09:04 PM
The government should take a heavy dose of blame for their part in allowing the disaster to happen. Now that it did happen, everyone is attempting everything reasonably possible to cap it. Blaming the government for not capping the well by now is hilariously ignorant, the real anger should be directed at the years of corrupt regulators working under administrations from both parties allowing this to happen.

notorious
06-18-2010, 09:36 PM
Horrilbe disasters are going to happen, whether it is a freak occurance or human error.



What we need to avoid is going overboard.

googlegoogle
06-19-2010, 06:05 PM
http://www.wildwell.com/uploads/Capping_a_Blowout_Well.swf

gblowfish
06-20-2010, 03:54 PM
Apologize to BP here:
http://apologizetobp.com/