PDA

View Full Version : Economics Hayek's 'The Road to Serfdom' in Five Minutes


Taco John
06-18-2010, 03:12 PM
This is a pretty great summary...

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bRQ3UcO5P8k&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bRQ3UcO5P8k&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Fat Elvis
06-18-2010, 03:23 PM
This is a pretty great summary...

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bRQ3UcO5P8k&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bRQ3UcO5P8k&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>



So...this is how Ron Paul is coming to power?

FD
06-18-2010, 04:21 PM
The Road to Serfdom is a great book, and a very important one, but it slays a dragon that just isn't around anymore, central planning. That book is part of the reason its not around anymore, you could say it made itself irrelevant.

Chiefshrink
06-19-2010, 12:25 AM
The Road to Serfdom is a great book, and a very important one, but it slays a dragon that just isn't around anymore, central planning. That book is part of the reason its not around anymore, you could say it made itself irrelevant.

:rolleyes: And this is why you will end up a "serf"! Keep dismissing history and you will repeat it.:rolleyes:

DanT
06-19-2010, 01:16 PM
That was terrific. Thanks for posting that, Taco John. I've seen that cartoon before, but never with the musical score and the timely annotations.

Hayek's observations still apply. The concept of "too big to fail" is just another name for allowing government to subvert market discipline.

BucEyedPea
06-19-2010, 01:53 PM
The Road to Serfdom is a great book, and a very important one, but it slays a dragon that just isn't around anymore, central planning. That book is part of the reason its not around anymore, you could say it made itself irrelevant.

O.M.F.G!!!! I can't believe I just read that!!! What do you think Keynesian economics is? That's about stimulating the economy's demand side, while pouring spending into to certain areas which creates cones in the market. ( where the govt wants the economic activity)

Hayek is more relevant than ever under the Obama regime with bailouts of banks and big auto so the govt can socially engineer green autos etc.

KC native
06-20-2010, 03:23 PM
ROFL Hey it's kiddie time in DC. Cartoons? Seriously? ROFL

Does anyone else find it absolutely hilarious that TJ relies on lame ass rap videos and cartoons to justify his economic stances?

oh and stupid bitch is still stupid.

banyon
06-20-2010, 06:54 PM
Cartoons always beat reading books. Book-learnin' way overrated, brief youtubes and sticking to one or two websites is the way to truly achieve a well-rounded economic education.

BucEyedPea
06-20-2010, 07:33 PM
A picture can tell a lot much faster. And people love pictures even adults. It's just the complicated Ivory Tower types that want to make things so mysterious or hard to understand, because well they're the elites that know better for all of us cartoon loving masses.

KC native
06-20-2010, 08:26 PM
A picture can tell a lot much faster. And people love pictures even adults. It's just the complicated Ivory Tower types that want to make things so mysterious or hard to understand, because well they're the elites that know better for all of us cartoon loving masses.

And you definitely didn't disappoint.

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5074/freeinternetei8.png

banyon
06-20-2010, 08:26 PM
A picture can tell a lot much faster. And people love pictures even adults. It's just the complicated Ivory Tower types that want to make things so mysterious or hard to understand, because well they're the elites that know better for all of us cartoon loving masses.

Huh, did you say something?

BucEyedPea
06-20-2010, 08:45 PM
Progressive lefties hate when something educational can wake the masses up!

banyon
06-20-2010, 09:44 PM
Progressive lefties hate when something educational can wake the masses up!

Yeah, the best way to understand historical authors is through a cartoon with catchphrases!

BucEyedPea
06-20-2010, 09:53 PM
Adult cartoons rock!

Chocolate Hog
06-21-2010, 02:09 AM
ROFL Hey it's kiddie time in DC. Cartoons? Seriously? ROFL

Does anyone else find it absolutely hilarious that TJ relies on lame ass rap videos and cartoons to justify his economic stances?

oh and stupid bitch is still stupid.

Look the left on here has it's own MadCrapper.

KC native
06-21-2010, 02:13 AM
Look the left on here has it's own MadCrapper.

You really are a special one aren't you? Not even close. When I post spam threads, bump irrelevant months old threads, use racial slurs, and fail to actually discuss issues then you might have a comparison.

Saggysack
06-21-2010, 05:26 AM
Wow, some of you must live in some scary places. I couldn't imagine how you can find any time to enjoy what little life you must have that you feel isn't being infringed upon or taken away in some evil plot.

BucEyedPea
06-21-2010, 10:02 AM
Entertainment makes politics light, fun and enjoyable. What a wonderful pleasure this video is. You can tell who the commies are—by if they hate it! Says all!

Chocolate Hog
06-21-2010, 02:28 PM
You really are a special one aren't you? Not even close. When I post spam threads, bump irrelevant months old threads, use racial slurs, and fail to actually discuss issues then you might have a comparison.

Troll Troll Troll your boat.

|Zach|
06-21-2010, 02:29 PM
Entertainment makes politics light, fun and enjoyable. What a wonderful pleasure this video is. You can tell who the commies are—by if they hate it! Says all!

Yes! All of this! Yay! You can tell who the commies are!

Otter
06-21-2010, 02:44 PM
You really are a special one aren't you? Not even close. When I post spam threads, bump irrelevant months old threads, use racial slurs, and fail to actually discuss issues then you might have a comparison.

self-awareness = zero

You are MadCrapper, you're just bizzaro MadCrapper. Instead of racial slurs (which coming from you has zero credibility) you scream "racism".

You post spam what you THINK is some deep, all-embracing insight into your subject of the day (usually fiance or screaming about racism like a bitch) and you once again THINK you discuss things rationally but you're blinded by your raw stupidity and lack of being able to see outside your own perspective.

Make no mistake, you are Bizarro-MadCrapper. You're just too stupid to realize it. The sooner you realize you're stupid KCNitwit, the sooner life is going to be for you. You can stop pretending your some sort of financial genius while your at it too. I don't believe for one minute you handle anyone's money but your own. It may be what you want to be, but you're not, please stop pretending.

I can start a poll if you don't believe me that you're bizzaro-MadCrapper.

Let me know and when you lose you can blame racism and right wing nutjobs because it's most certainly not you who's to blame in your head I'm sure.

FD
06-21-2010, 03:14 PM
While both are great books, anyone interested in Hayek should really read The Constitution of Liberty instead. Like I said, I really think The Road to Serfdom is no longer relevant to modern politics, whereas the bulk of Constitution of Liberty will always be relevant.

KC native
06-21-2010, 03:40 PM
self-awareness = zero

You are MadCrapper, you're just bizzaro MadCrapper. Instead of racial slurs (which coming from you has zero credibility) you scream "racism".

You post spam what you THINK is some deep, all-embracing insight into your subject of the day (usually fiance or screaming about racism like a bitch) and you once again THINK you discuss things rationally but you're blinded by your raw stupidity and lack of being able to see outside your own perspective.

Make no mistake, you are Bizarro-MadCrapper. You're just too stupid to realize it. The sooner you realize you're stupid KCNitwit, the sooner life is going to be for you. You can stop pretending your some sort of financial genius while your at it too. I don't believe for one minute you handle anyone's money but your own. It may be what you want to be, but you're not, please stop pretending.

I can start a poll if you don't believe me that you're bizzaro-MadCrapper.

Let me know and when you lose you can blame racism and right wing nutjobs because it's most certainly not you who's to blame in your head I'm sure.

Oh, this again. Donger's poll went over so swell. Please, do it.

Oh, and I call it like I see it. When people say racist shit, I'm going to call it racist. If people don't I won't. It's pretty simple actually.

BucEyedPea
06-21-2010, 04:24 PM
While both are great books, anyone interested in Hayek should really read The Constitution of Liberty instead. Like I said, I really think The Road to Serfdom is no longer relevant to modern politics, whereas the bulk of Constitution of Liberty will always be relevant.

Both are still relevant. Particularly since the state continues to grow and socialism is persisting in some quarters.

KC native
06-22-2010, 07:34 PM
self-awareness = zero

You are MadCrapper, you're just bizzaro MadCrapper. Instead of racial slurs (which coming from you has zero credibility) you scream "racism".

You post spam what you THINK is some deep, all-embracing insight into your subject of the day (usually fiance or screaming about racism like a bitch) and you once again THINK you discuss things rationally but you're blinded by your raw stupidity and lack of being able to see outside your own perspective.

Make no mistake, you are Bizarro-MadCrapper. You're just too stupid to realize it. The sooner you realize you're stupid KCNitwit, the sooner life is going to be for you. You can stop pretending your some sort of financial genius while your at it too. I don't believe for one minute you handle anyone's money but your own. It may be what you want to be, but you're not, please stop pretending.

I can start a poll if you don't believe me that you're bizzaro-MadCrapper.

Let me know and when you lose you can blame racism and right wing nutjobs because it's most certainly not you who's to blame in your head I'm sure.

Oh, this again. Donger's poll went over so swell. Please, do it.

Oh, and I call it like I see it. When people say racist shit, I'm going to call it racist. If people don't I won't. It's pretty simple actually.

Aw, what's a matter otter? Is your vagina leaking? Do you still want to start a poll?

Hayek's 'The Road to... 06-22-2010 03:54 PM Otter fag

ROFL

googlegoogle
06-22-2010, 07:51 PM
Oh, this again. Donger's poll went over so swell. Please, do it.

Oh, and I call it like I see it. When people say racist shit, I'm going to call it racist. If people don't I won't. It's pretty simple actually.

Where's the racist shit you fool? STFU

KC native
06-22-2010, 07:56 PM
Where's the racist shit you fool? STFU

You have reading comprehension problems.

googlegoogle
06-22-2010, 10:42 PM
You have reading comprehension problems.

Don't see anything. Only something you only see. :spock:

Velvet_Jones
06-23-2010, 09:33 AM
You really are a special one aren't you? Not even close. When I post spam threads, bump irrelevant months old threads, use racial slurs, and fail to actually discuss issues then you might have a comparison.

I think he was referring to you being a huge fucking asshole - Just like MadCrapper.

KC native
06-23-2010, 03:37 PM
Don't see anything. Only something you only see. :spock:

Yea, you have reading comprehension problems.

KC native
06-23-2010, 03:38 PM
I think he was referring to you being a huge fucking asshole - Just like MadCrapper.

Ah, the irony is so sweet. I only dish out what I've received.

Pioli Zombie
06-23-2010, 05:50 PM
I want to be breastfed by her.

BucEyedPea
06-27-2010, 08:47 AM
"Every economy has its contradictions …. What counts is results, and there can be no doubt that the Soviet planning system has been a powerful engine for economic growth." ~ Paul Samuelson, Economics, 1985 edition

"Contrary to what many skeptics had earlier believed, the Soviet economy is proof that … a socialist command economy can function and even thrive." ~ Paul Samuelson, Economics, 1989 edition [this book explains the principles of Keynesian economics-kcnative's and banyons favored system]

"The Road to Serfdom was 'inaccurate innuendo about the future'." ~ Paul Samuelson, 2009

From wiki
Paul Anthony Samuelson (May 15, 1915 – December 13, 2009) was an American economist, and the first American to win the Nobel Prize in Economics. The Swedish Royal Academies [socialists] stated, when awarding the prize, that he "has done more than any other contemporary economist to raise the level of scientific analysis ROFLin economic theory."[1] Economic historian Randall E. Parker calls him the "Father of Modern Economics",[2] and The New York Times considered him to be the "foremost academic economist of the 20th century."[3]

banyon
06-27-2010, 03:21 PM
"Every economy has its contradictions …. What counts is results, and there can be no doubt that the Soviet planning system has been a powerful engine for economic growth." ~ Paul Samuelson, Economics, 1985 edition

"Contrary to what many skeptics had earlier believed, the Soviet economy is proof that … a socialist command economy can function and even thrive." ~ Paul Samuelson, Economics, 1989 edition [this book explains the principles of Keynesian economics-kcnative's and banyons favored system]

"The Road to Serfdom was 'inaccurate innuendo about the future'." ~ Paul Samuelson, 2009

From wiki
Paul Anthony Samuelson (May 15, 1915 – December 13, 2009) was an American economist, and the first American to win the Nobel Prize in Economics. The Swedish Royal Academies [socialists] stated, when awarding the prize, that he "has done more than any other contemporary economist to raise the level of scientific analysis ROFLin economic theory."[1] Economic historian Randall E. Parker calls him the "Father of Modern Economics",[2] and The New York Times considered him to be the "foremost academic economist of the 20th century."[3]


A) What a dumb out of context quote. (and misquoted)

On p.776 "The Soviet model has surely demonstrated that a command economy is capable of mobilizing resources for rapid growth and awesome military power. BUT it has done so in an atmosphere of great human sacrifice-even loss of life-and political repression.Is such a frightful human toll worth the economic gains?This is one of the most profound dilemmas of human society."

(OOOH SHOCKING! :eek: is our children learning?)

b) Keynesianism isn't my (or kcnative's "preferred" system). I have many significant problems with it. It's just another long-term confusion of yours. You're not able to distinguish between someone pointing out faulty criticisms of a theory and someone actively supporting a theory. Unlike you, though, I've actually read it and studied it in detail and not just from snippets from internet fringe critics.

Much like you assume anyone who disagrees with you must immediately be labelled in the extreme polar opposite camp with a label (neocon/socialist/marxist, whatever).

orange
06-28-2010, 03:07 PM
"Every economy has its contradictions …. What counts is results, and there can be no doubt that the Soviet planning system has been a powerful engine for economic growth." ~ Paul Samuelson, Economics, 1985 edition

"Contrary to what many skeptics had earlier believed, the Soviet economy is proof that … a socialist command economy can function and even thrive." ~ Paul Samuelson, Economics, 1989 edition [this book explains the principles of Keynesian economics-kcnative's and banyons favored system]

"The Road to Serfdom was 'inaccurate innuendo about the future'." ~ Paul Samuelson, 2009


An actual, accurate Paul Samuelson quote:

"Two-thirds of a century after the book got written, hindsight confirms how inaccurate its innuendo about the future turned out to be. Consider only Sweden’s fig-leaf middle way. As I write in 2007, Sweden and other Scandivanian places have somewhat lowered the fraction of GDP they use to devote through government. But still they are the most “socialistic” by Hayek’s crude definition. Where are their horror camps? Have the vilest elements risen there to absolute power? When reports are compiled on “measurable unhappiness,” do places like Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Norway best epitomize serfdoms? No. Of course not. American conservatives like my old friend the late David McCord Wright, confronted by such counter evidence would say to me up to his last years: “Paul, just you wait.” I never tired of waiting."


Where ARE those Swedish death camps, anyway?

BucEyedPea
06-28-2010, 03:49 PM
Where ARE those Swedish death camps, anyway?

Who said anything about death camps? We're talking economic death as in the Soviet Union. It's a fact it's economy was a crashed one.
In fact, what did Lenin resort to in order to pump some life back into it? He introduced some market capitalism. It also helped revive it until he slaughtered the entrepreneurs once he saw who they were.

banyon
06-28-2010, 07:14 PM
Who said anything about death camps?

Hayek did. In the actual book:

Once you admit that the individual is merely a means to serve
the ends of the higher entity called society or the nation, most
of those features of totalitarianism which horrify us follow of
necessity. From the collectivist standpoint intolerance and brutal
suppression of dissent, deception and spying, the complete
disregard of the life and happiness of the individual are essential
and unavoidable. Acts which revolt all our feelings, such as the
shooting of hostages or the killing of the old or sick, are treated as
mere matters of expediency; the compulsory uprooting and
transportation of hundreds of thousands becomes an instrument
of policy approved by almost everybody except the victims.
To be a useful assistant in the running of a totalitarian state,
therefore, a man must be prepared to break every moral rule he
has ever known if this seems necessary to achieve the end set for
him. In the totalitarian machine there will be special opportunities
for the ruthless and unscrupulous. Neither the Gestapo nor the administration
of a concentration camp, neither the Ministry of Propaganda
nor the SA or SS (or their Russian counterparts) are
suitable places for the exercise of humanitarian feelings. Yet it is
through such positions that the road to the highest positions in the
totalitarian state leads.

http://www.iea.org.uk/files/upld-publication43pdf

Or did the cartoon not cover that? Or is it fair to misquote Samuelson and then hold him to the historical reality of his predictions, but it is not fair to do that with Hayek?

Pioli Zombie
06-28-2010, 07:27 PM
Both her breasts,one at a time,of course, in my mouth. Followed by a slow tongue bath of her chest.

BucEyedPea
06-29-2010, 04:17 PM
I was talking about "death camps" by those in this thread. Context matters. We all know too much govt power winds up in totalitarianism with killing people.

banyon
06-29-2010, 04:26 PM
I was talking about "death camps" by those in this thread. Context matters. We all know too much govt power winds up in totalitarianism with killing people.

So, is it fair to misquote Samuelson and then hold him to the historical reality of his predictions, but it is not fair to do that with Hayek?

BucEyedPea
06-29-2010, 04:29 PM
No one here but one poster made points about death camps. Swing and a miss.

banyon
06-29-2010, 04:36 PM
No one here but one poster made points about death camps. Swing and a miss.

You still don't follow the point of his post. It wasn't about the death camps solely, it was about the inaccuracy of a prediction and how you wanted to hold Samuelson to a different standard than Hayek.