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petegz28
06-22-2010, 09:20 PM
WASHINGTON (AP) - House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer said Tuesday that tax increases will eventually be necessary to address the nation's mounting debt, raising a difficult election-year issue as Democrats fight retain control of Congress.
In the shorter term, Hoyer raised the possibility that Congress will only temporarily extend middle-class tax cuts set to expire at the end of the year. He pointedly suggested that making them permanent would be too costly.

Tax cuts enacted under former President George W. Bush are scheduled to expire at the end of the year, affecting taxpayers at every income level. President Barack Obama proposes to permanently extend them for individuals making less than $200,000 a year and families making less than $250,000—at a cost of about $2.5 trillion over the next decade.

"As the House and Senate debate what to do with the expiring Bush tax cuts in the coming weeks, we need to have a serious discussion about their implications for our fiscal outlook, including whether we can afford to permanently extend them before we have a real plan for long-term deficit reduction," said Hoyer, a Maryland Democrat.

The tax cuts will be a big political issue in many congressional elections this fall, providing potential fodder for both political parties. Democratic leaders have yet to lay out a schedule for dealing with the tax cuts, but many rank-and-file Democrats want to extend them before the elections, so they can campaign on passing tax cuts for the middle class.

Republicans argue that many of the high earners who would face tax increases under Obama's plan are small business owners struggling to stay afloat in a tough economy.

If the Democratic-controlled Congress doesn't extend the tax cuts before the elections, Republicans are ready to pounce, highlighting the looming tax increase that awaits nearly every U.S. taxpayer in January. Democrats would be left in the awkward position of promising to extend the tax cuts in a lame duck session following the elections, after nearly two years of inaction by the current Congress.

In the short term, government spending has been necessary to stimulate the economy, Hoyer said. But in the longer term, Congress will have to rein in spending and raise taxes to tackle the debt, he added.

"Raising revenue is part of the deficit solution, too," Hoyer said.

Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell said, "It's now official. Top Democrats on Capitol Hill are starting to signal their intention to raise taxes on the middle class."

On the spending side, Hoyer said Congress should consider raising the retirement age for full Social Security and Medicare benefits, and making those benefits progressive so that wealthier recipients get less than the needy.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9GGCVE00&show_article=1

petegz28
06-22-2010, 09:21 PM
Tax cuts enacted under former President George W. Bush are scheduled to expire at the end of the year, affecting taxpayers at every income level. President Barack Obama proposes to permanently extend them for individuals making less than $200,000 a year and families making less than $250,000—at a cost of about $2.5 trillion over the next decade

We keep hearing the Bush cuts were only for the wealthy. Obviously the truth cannot remain hidden.

Guru
06-22-2010, 10:44 PM
I will be truly surprised if he doesn't let it expire for everyone now that congress doesn't want to do anything about the budget. To be honest, I have already been preparing for losing this tax cut anyway.

ClevelandBronco
06-22-2010, 10:50 PM
I will be truly surprised if he doesn't let it expire for everyone now that congress doesn't want to do anything about the budget. To be honest, I have already been preparing for losing this tax credit anyway.

I could be overlooking something, but you probably don't mean "tax credit."

Guru
06-22-2010, 10:51 PM
I could be overlooking something, but you probably don't mean "tax credit."Yeah, I meant to say "cut".

Rain Man
06-22-2010, 10:52 PM
I think there's some government department somewhere that has 500 people who are solely devoted to watching my financial situation and changing tax laws to screw me whenever possible.

mlyonsd
06-23-2010, 06:57 AM
I think there's some government department somewhere that has 500 people who are solely devoted to watching my financial situation and changing tax laws to screw me whenever possible.

It's up to 600. They added another 100 with stimulus money.

blaise
06-23-2010, 07:01 AM
It's up to 600. They added another 100 with stimulus money.

Let's just put those initial 500 into the Jobs Saved category and say the total number of new jobs created was 600.
What a success!

HonestChieffan
06-23-2010, 07:14 AM
Middle class is where the biggest pile of taxable dollars reside. Its really that simple. If you want to generate serious tax revenue, you have to go after the 50 grand to 150 grand wage earners.

Tax the rich is a political theme. Tax the middle class is an economic reality.

mlyonsd
06-23-2010, 07:19 AM
Let's just put those initial 500 into the Jobs Saved category and say the total number of new jobs created was 600.
What a success!

Axlerod is on the phone, he wants to know if you need a job. Unpaid of course if by chance you're running for office this fall.

Hydrae
06-23-2010, 11:12 AM
I am not sure that allowing tax cuts to expire is really the same as hiking taxes. Just semantics but still....

HonestChieffan
06-23-2010, 11:14 AM
I am not sure that allowing tax cuts to expire is really the same as hiking taxes. Just semantics but still....

Will taxes increase as a result of allowing the expiration?

Hydrae
06-23-2010, 11:20 AM
Will taxes increase as a result of allowing the expiration?

Yes, of course.

Like I said, this is really just a semanitcal observation. If the tax cuts are expiring then they were obviously temporary so probably shouldn't even be called cuts in the first place. A cut would be a removal which, I would assume, would be something permanent. This was a temporary tax reprieve so the expiration is just a return to "normal", not an increase in the original tax. Just a return to the status quo.

petegz28
06-23-2010, 11:35 AM
I am not sure that allowing tax cuts to expire is really the same as hiking taxes. Just semantics but still....

:eek: Tax cuts expiring = taxes go up = tax hike

Chiefspants
06-23-2010, 11:43 AM
What was our budget like before Bush's tax cuts?

Hydrae
06-23-2010, 11:52 AM
:eek: Tax cuts expiring = taxes go up = tax hike

Last response on this as it is, one more time, a question of semantics.

The tax cut was a temporary lowering of the tax, not a lowering of the tax in general. Thus, the expiration is not a tax hike, it is a return to the level it was all along, just without the temporary change. The bottom line tax was never changed.

Yes, this will mean more taxes paid than yesterday but the tax itself never changed.

Ok, I am done now. This is just how I see it, everyone else can demonize this in whatever fashion they like. Wake me when we actually see a tax CUT, not a temporary lowering for politics sake.

petegz28
06-23-2010, 11:53 AM
Last response on this as it is, one more time, a question of semantics.

The tax cut was a temporary lowering of the tax, not a lowering of the tax in general. Thus, the expiration is not a tax hike, it is a return to the level it was all along, just without the temporary change. The bottom line tax was never changed.

Yes, this will mean more taxes paid than yesterday but the tax itself never changed.

Ok, I am done now. This is just how I see it, everyone else can demonize this in whatever fashion they like. Wake me when we actually see a tax CUT, not a temporary lowering for politics sake.

No, it is not semantics. 2+2 does not = 5. Even on it's best day it still = 4. So what would you call it if we returned back to the tax rates pre-Reagan? Semantics?

Hydrae
06-23-2010, 11:57 AM
No, it is not semantics. 2+2 does not = 5. Even on it's best day it still = 4. So what would you call it if we returned back to the tax rates pre-Reagan? Semantics?

Were those rates changed on a permanent basis or just as a temporary tax break?

Say I loan you money and you are to pay me $100 a month until paid. You run into trouble and I agree to let you pay me $50 for the next 6 months and then go back to $100 a month after that. Did I cut your payments or lower them temporarily to help you out? When you go back to $100 did your payment go up or did it just return to where it was in the first place? It is all in your perspective, IMO.

ClevelandBronco
06-23-2010, 12:04 PM
Were those rates changed on a permanent basis or just as a temporary tax break?

Say I loan you money and you are to pay me $100 a month until paid. You run into trouble and I agree to let you pay me $50 for the next 6 months and then go back to $100 a month after that. Did I cut your payments or lower them temporarily to help you out? When you go back to $100 did your payment go up or did it just return to where it was in the first place? It is all in your perspective, IMO.

See? That's the way it works, pete. The government lent us the money and now we have to pay it back.

Hydrae
06-23-2010, 12:07 PM
See? That's the way it works, pete. The government lent us the money and now we have to pay it back.

Ok, maybe not the best analogy.

And in no way do I think the government owns my money. I may be the closest to a tax protestor as we have around here. I didn't pay or file for a period of 7 years. Of course I also didn't make much money so I wasn't very high up on the IRS radar. Then I got married...

petegz28
06-23-2010, 12:09 PM
Were those rates changed on a permanent basis or just as a temporary tax break?

Say I loan you money and you are to pay me $100 a month until paid. You run into trouble and I agree to let you pay me $50 for the next 6 months and then go back to $100 a month after that. Did I cut your payments or lower them temporarily to help you out? When you go back to $100 did your payment go up or did it just return to where it was in the first place? It is all in your perspective, IMO.

The expirations were set for 2 reasons

1) politcal to get some Dems on board
2) the assumption things would be better economically when they expired


so insted of extending the cuts when the economy is in the shitter, they are going to allow taxes to go back up

The Mad Crapper
07-21-2010, 10:38 AM
http://www.moonbattery.com/teleprompter-instructions.jpg

ChiefaRoo
07-21-2010, 10:42 AM
Last response on this as it is, one more time, a question of semantics.

The tax cut was a temporary lowering of the tax, not a lowering of the tax in general. Thus, the expiration is not a tax hike, it is a return to the level it was all along, just without the temporary change. The bottom line tax was never changed.

Yes, this will mean more taxes paid than yesterday but the tax itself never changed.

Ok, I am done now. This is just how I see it, everyone else can demonize this in whatever fashion they like. Wake me when we actually see a tax CUT, not a temporary lowering for politics sake.

Who brought the drone.

I've met some real dumbases since I've moved to Austin. 40% of this town is business and fiscally ignorant.

Bars rock though.

The Mad Crapper
07-23-2010, 01:27 PM
July 23, 2010
Coming Soon: Tax Tsunami
Posted by Van Helsing at July 23, 2010 10:31 AM

You think the economy is bad now? Wait awhile: Obama isn't done "fundamentally transforming" it yet. First he spent us into a hole that it will take generations to get out of. Next, he's jacking taxes through the ceiling, snuffing out any hope of long-term economic growth. Investors Business Daily reports that

as of midnight Dec. 31, the death tax returns — at a rate of 55% on estates of $1 million or more.
The main effects of the death tax are to destroy family farms and to prevent family businesses from being passed from one generation to the next. That's only the beginning of the taxes soon to hit us — rich, poor, and shrinking middle class alike:

The lowest bracket for the personal income tax, for instance, moves up 50% — to 15% from 10%. The next lowest bracket — 25% — will rise to 28%, and the old 28% bracket will be 31%. At the higher end, the 33% bracket is pushed to 36% and the 35% bracket becomes 39.6%. …
The marriage penalty also makes a comeback, and the capital gains tax will jump 33% — to 20% from 15%. The tax on dividends will go all the way from 15% to 39.6% — a 164% increase.
Both the cap-gains and dividend taxes will go up further in 2013 as the health care reform adds a 3.8% Medicare levy for individuals making more than $200,000 a year and joint filers making more than $250,000. Other tax hikes include: halving the child tax credit to $500 from $1,000 and fixing the standard deduction for couples at the same level as it is for single filers.
Letting the Bush cuts expire will cost taxpayers $115 billion next year alone, according to the Congressional Budget Office, and $2.6 trillion through 2020.
Then comes a second wave of tax hikes, meant to finance the unwanted ObamaCare power grab. Tax shelters for medicine will be removed, withdrawals from health savings accounts will be taxed, drug manufacturers will be looted mercilessly, and the IRS will be empowered to disallow any tax deductions that it regards as lacking "economic substance."

After that comes the third wave, which will include widening the impact of the alternative minimum tax from 4 million this year to 28.5 million next year. Businesses will be gouged by withholding tax credits and radically limiting depreciation deductions. As with all Obama policies, this will raise unemployment. Tax credits will be snatched away from those trying to get an education. Those who decline to buy health insurance will be taxed brutally, as will real estate transactions.

Our rulers have figured out that we will not rebel before they have bled us dry. It doesn't bother them that the public wants the Bush tax cuts made permanent by a 2 to 1 margin.

Here's Obama lying in our faces about taxes:

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2010/07/coming-soon-tax.html