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View Full Version : Nat'l Security Ge. McChrystal relieved of duties...


petegz28
06-23-2010, 12:36 PM
Hitting the wires now. Patreus to replace him.

ClevelandBronco
06-23-2010, 12:52 PM
To paraphrase our gifted orator in chief: "I'm butthurt. He's out. I'll now say a few words about a bunch of other shit that I don't really believe, but my handlers tell me that it's what you want to hear."

blaise
06-23-2010, 12:52 PM
If it's true I can't fault Obama. I've never been in the military, so I don't mean to speak for anyone that's served, but I think if I was a soldier right now I would want my General and my President to be on the same page, and know that my General believed in the President's leadership.

banyon
06-23-2010, 12:53 PM
After what I've read and watched about the present state of the Afghan War, this would appear to be a serious mistake.

the strategy in Afghanistan is almost 180 degrees different than what is possible in Iraq. Having people not concentrated in urban populations and roving tribal warlords and the ability of your enemy to escape across transnational borders with material support from what is supposed to be an ally requires a markedly different approach that McChrystal seemed to be having some success with.

BigMeatballDave
06-23-2010, 12:56 PM
He probably wanted out anyway. I like this guy. He's got balls.

bluehawkdoc
06-23-2010, 12:58 PM
If it's true I can't fault Obama. I've never been in the military, so I don't mean to speak for anyone that's served, but I think if I was a soldier right now I would want my General and my President to be on the same page, and know that my General believed in the President's leadership.

If I were a soldier, I would want the President to stay the hell out of the way so my General could implement his plan since he actually knows something about war strategy and combat.

HonestChieffan
06-23-2010, 12:59 PM
If I were a soldier, I would want the President to stay the hell out of the way so my General could implement his plan since he actually knows something about war strategy and combat.

especially this moron CIC

blaise
06-23-2010, 12:59 PM
If I were a soldier, I would want the President to stay the hell out of the way so my General could implement his plan since he actually knows something about war strategy and combat.

I can see that side of it, too.

mlyonsd
06-23-2010, 01:02 PM
Had to be done.

RJ
06-23-2010, 01:10 PM
Had to be done.


Exactly.

Obama really wasn't left with a choice. Politicians and generals disagree all the time but it's not supposed to be aired in public.

ClevelandBronco
06-23-2010, 01:14 PM
Exactly.

Obama really wasn't left with a choice. Politicians and generals disagree all the time but it's not supposed to be aired in public.

I doubt that Gen. McChrystal was unaware of what would happen when he set these events in motion.

banyon
06-23-2010, 02:03 PM
Exactly.

Obama really wasn't left with a choice. Politicians and generals disagree all the time but it's not supposed to be aired in public.

Patton and MacArthur disagreed with FDR and Truman, but they didn't fire them over it. I think this could have been resolved through a little humble dialogue rather than the way it was done.

BucEyedPea
06-23-2010, 02:05 PM
I'm sure he knew it was coming. It is what it is.

ClevelandBronco
06-23-2010, 02:13 PM
Patton and MacArthur disagreed with FDR and Truman, but they didn't fire them over it. I think this could have been resolved through a little humble dialogue rather than the way it was done.

Plenty of humble dialogue may have preceded the general's move and the president's reaction. Unless both of the parties give us a history of the conflict (and we'll probably have to wait for their books to come out) it's difficult to put this latest development in context. I find it hard to believe that the president thought that everything was hunky dory until yesterday.

blaise
06-23-2010, 02:17 PM
Patton and MacArthur disagreed with FDR and Truman, but they didn't fire them over it. I think this could have been resolved through a little humble dialogue rather than the way it was done.

I think maybe the situations are a little different, because there's maybe a level of uncertainty in the need for this war that wasn't present under FDR and Truman.
If you let too much dissention take place I think you run the risk of soldiers saying, "Why are we even here? Our general thinks Obama's a wimp, he and his aides are sniping at Obama in magazines. No one seems to know when this is over. Why are we doing this?"
I just wonder if Obama wants to be very guarded against a sense of pessimism among the military, and he just feels like he better nip that in the bud now rather than letting it fester. I think he feels it would be better to get a guy in there that says, "I know what Obama wants. I'm on the same page. We're going to get this done and we have a plan, don't worry."

mlyonsd
06-23-2010, 02:20 PM
I'll bet Petraeus is absolutely thrilled.

HonestChieffan
06-23-2010, 02:22 PM
I'll bet Petraeus is absolutely thrilled.


Aint that the truth. No way he can come out looking good.

Donger
06-23-2010, 02:24 PM
"Relieved of duty" = resigned?

Chiefshrink
06-23-2010, 03:17 PM
I'll bet Petraeus is absolutely thrilled.

To some degree I bet he is because by taking over he makes Obama and the radical Marxist Left EAT CROW!!

Remember when "O" got in Petraeus's grill and just blasted him for wanting a 2nd surge for almost 7mins during a Senate hearing I believe.:shake:

And then the "Betrayus" mantra by the radical left in NY Times Petraeus lied to us:shake:

Idiot Marxist Lefties!!!:rolleyes:

Chiefshrink
06-23-2010, 03:21 PM
After what I've read and watched about the present state of the Afghan War, this would appear to be a serious mistake.

the strategy in Afghanistan is almost 180 degrees different than what is possible in Iraq. Having people not concentrated in urban populations and roving tribal warlords and the ability of your enemy to escape across transnational borders with material support from what is supposed to be an ally requires a markedly different approach that McChrystal seemed to be having some success with.

Petraeus and McChrystal are cut from the same cloth and Petraeus will do just fine. Now if a CEO type General were put in place then I would worry.

banyon
06-23-2010, 03:30 PM
Petraeus and McChrystal are cut from the same cloth and Petraeus will do just fine. Now if a CEO type General were put in place then I would worry.

Nobody is doing "just fine" in Afghanistan. The situation is quite critical.

Even more critical is the Pakistani government's tenuous hold on control. The Pashtuns are getting more leverage by the day and eventually can gain control of their nuclear arsenal. Things are not fine and dandy.

Dallas Chief
06-23-2010, 03:32 PM
After what I've read and watched about the present state of the Afghan War, this would appear to be a serious mistake.

the strategy in Afghanistan is almost 180 degrees different than what is possible in Iraq. Having people not concentrated in urban populations and roving tribal warlords and the ability of your enemy to escape across transnational borders with material support from what is supposed to be an ally requires a markedly different approach that McChrystal seemed to be having some success with.


I agree that McChrystal was probably the best man for the job. However, you can't pop off like that without expecting to be standing tall before the man. IMHO, he got what he deserved. Gotta respect the office and the chain of command.

Chiefshrink
06-23-2010, 03:34 PM
Nobody is doing "just fine" in Afghanistan. The situation is quite critical.

Even more critical is the Pakistani government's tenuous hold on control. The Pashtuns are getting more leverage by the day and eventually can gain control of their nuclear arsenal. Things are not fine and dandy.

Learn to read.

Did I say the Afghanistan situation was fine:rolleyes: I said Petraeus will do just fine taking over, meaning he will hit the road running, not missing a beat, etc.....

banyon
06-23-2010, 03:39 PM
Learn to read.

Did I say the Afghanistan situation was fine:rolleyes: I said Petraeus will do just fine taking over, meaning he will hit the road running, not missing a beat, etc.....

My point was that it's a little naive to think that anyone can step in and do "just fine". Maybe you should take your own advice and reread my post.

HonestChieffan
06-23-2010, 03:45 PM
Obama being seen as weak and ineffectual plus his lack of willingness to supply the numbers of troops rapidly when asked by his commander undermined any real support we had with Afghani leadership. They know they cannot count on Obama to finish the job and then his people announce a pullout date. That is a clear signal to the Afghan Government they need to get in with the Taliban or be destroyed when Obama has the troops leave.


No military commander can operate with this sort of political game dictating the effort and putting our troops in grave danger.

Obama is a disaster of never before seen proportions on almost any measure.

Iowanian
06-23-2010, 03:53 PM
So much for the appreciation of an open dialog huh...



The good news is, now he is free to say EXACTLY what he thinks about how things have been handled.

vailpass
06-23-2010, 03:56 PM
So much for the appreciation of an open dialog huh...



The good news is, now he is free to say EXACTLY what he thinks about how things have been handled.

My thoughts too...I'm hoping for an in-depth TV interview or a book but I don't know what sort of confidentiality agreement he is under.
Too, as a military man of honor he may not see fit to tell what he knows or say what he thinks.

Capricorn
06-23-2010, 03:57 PM
He voiced his opinion (Amendment right) and got fired. It seems anyone who disagrees with Obama, regardless of their convictions, is not part of his agenda.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-23-2010, 03:59 PM
If he fired him, he's a butthurt pussy

If he didn't fire him, he's a spineless pussy.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-23-2010, 04:00 PM
He voiced his opinion (Amendment right) and got fired. It seems anyone who disagrees with Obama, regardless of their convictions, is not part of his agenda.

You don't have the right to free speech in the military, you dumb sonofabitch.

vailpass
06-23-2010, 04:08 PM
You don't have the right to free speech in the military, you dumb sonofabitch.

Now Hamas although you are correct is the name calling really necessary? In the name of allah can't we all get along?

Chocolate Hog
06-23-2010, 04:10 PM
After what I've read and watched about the present state of the Afghan War, this would appear to be a serious mistake.

the strategy in Afghanistan is almost 180 degrees different than what is possible in Iraq. Having people not concentrated in urban populations and roving tribal warlords and the ability of your enemy to escape across transnational borders with material support from what is supposed to be an ally requires a markedly different approach that McChrystal seemed to be having some success with.

No. There is no more Al Aqeada in Afgahnistan they all went to Pakistan our best bet would to be pull out. The country is backrupt we are doing exactly what Bin Laden wanted. Why can't you people see this?


It's also amazing how the neo-cons here are so thursty for a police state. A general can never be wrong! McCrystal is a peice of shit.

banyon
06-23-2010, 04:13 PM
No.

Anything in particular?

Capricorn
06-23-2010, 04:14 PM
You don't have the right to free speech in the military, you dumb sonofabitch.

Well, thanks for the clarification. One doesn't have the right because?

Chiefshrink
06-23-2010, 04:15 PM
My point was that it's a little naive to think that anyone can step in and do "just fine". Maybe you should take your own advice and reread my post.

Reread your post? You said no one was doing fine in Afghanistan. I never said they were:rolleyes: But your a lib so this explains the disconnection between fact and fiction.

Naive?????? :hmmm::hmmm: A man who successfully led the 2nd surge in Iraq doesn't have the ability to be successful in Afghanistan regardless of the differences???

I'll take Petraeus and so will the "Poser in Chief":D

Chocolate Hog
06-23-2010, 04:15 PM
Anything in particular?

Sorry I edited it.

vailpass
06-23-2010, 04:16 PM
Well, thanks for the clarification. One doesn't have the right because?

Because you take an oath in which you willingly surrender certain personal rights and liberties. This is necessary in order to assemble and maintain a cohesive military force with a clearly defined chain of command.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-23-2010, 04:17 PM
Well, thanks for the clarification. One doesn't have the right because?

You forfeit those rights once you join the institution. That's why you get thrown in the brig for insubordination.

This isn't an isolated occurrence, nor is it unique to the military. Call your boss a cocksucker. See what happens.

banyon
06-23-2010, 04:18 PM
No. There is no more Al Aqeada in Afgahnistan they all went to Pakistan our best bet would to be pull out. The country is backrupt we are doing exactly what Bin Laden wanted. Why can't you people see this?


It's also amazing how the neo-cons here are so thursty for a police state. A general can never be wrong! McCrystal is a peice of shit.

You are mistaken, Al-Qaeda is definitely still in Afghanistan, it's just that their most conspicuous members carry out attacks from across the border in Waziristan and then return to it with the protection of the Pakistanis.

You don't think Bin Laden would like us to pull out? That would be odd, since it's precisely the reason he stated for his support of 9-11 (to pull U.S. forces out of Saudi Arabia). Why would he have a different goal in Afghanistan? Do you have anything to support that contention?

Capricorn
06-23-2010, 04:20 PM
I have never served in the Military. In other words, subordinates succumb to the free open will of their commanders. Why in the hell would anyone give up their rights that my forefathers fought and died for?

Appeasing a CIC that hasn't a clue is ridiculous!

banyon
06-23-2010, 04:21 PM
Reread your post? You said no one was doing fine in Afghanistan. I never said they were:rolleyes: But your a lib so this explains the disconnection between fact and fiction.

Naive?????? :hmmm::hmmm: A man who successfully led the 2nd surge in Iraq doesn't have the ability to be successful in Afghanistan regardless of the differences???

I'll take Petraeus and so will the "Poser in Chief":D

You stated Petraeus would do fine, apparently with a numbing sense of complacency. I find that emblematic of the general public's lack of awareness of the current nature of the conflict over there.

You don't need to be embarassed, just educate yourself on it.

Chocolate Hog
06-23-2010, 04:26 PM
You are mistaken, Al-Qaeda is definitely still in Afghanistan, it's just that their most conspicuous members carry out attacks from across the border in Waziristan and then return to it with the protection of the Pakistanis.

You don't think Bin Laden would like us to pull out? That would be odd, since it's precisely the reason he stated for his support of 9-11 (to pull U.S. forces out of Saudi Arabia). Why would he have a different goal in Afghanistan? Do you have anything to support that contention?

I believe he was quoted in The 9-11 report as saying so. If you look at the situation we're following the same road as the Soviets. Why would Bin Laden want us to leave? We are wasting billions and thousands of Americans are being killed all while we are turning more muslims aginst us.

For fucks sake the same week it was revealed Karzahis brother is a drug lord a few DEA officers were killed in Afghanistan. This war is a joke.

BucEyedPea
06-23-2010, 05:11 PM
I believe he was quoted in The 9-11 report as saying so. If you look at the situation we're following the same road as the Soviets. Why would Bin Laden want us to leave? We are wasting billions and thousands of Americans are being killed all while we are turning more muslims aginst us.
BinLaden also said he would drag us into country after country and bring us down economically too. Would have been so much cheaper to just bust up the camps with a warning we'd be back if any other activity against the US. Meanwhile, get rid of all those additional US bases in the ME since PGWI.

For ****s sake the same week it was revealed Karzahis brother is a drug lord a few DEA officers were killed in Afghanistan. This war is a joke.

Ayup!

patteeu
06-23-2010, 05:43 PM
I believe he was quoted in The 9-11 report as saying so. If you look at the situation we're following the same road as the Soviets. Why would Bin Laden want us to leave? We are wasting billions and thousands of Americans are being killed all while we are turning more muslims aginst us.

For ****s sake the same week it was revealed Karzahis brother is a drug lord a few DEA officers were killed in Afghanistan. This war is a joke.

Are you under the impression that the mujaheddin wanted the Soviets to stay? Your theory makes absolutely no sense. As soon as we leave, bin Laden and the local Taliban put a second notch in their RPGs where they keep track of the number of super powers they've forced out of that region. It may be that in the end we'll decide to leave, but don't kid yourself about it. It will be a clear victory for the people we're fighting against when we do.

WilliamTheIrish
06-23-2010, 06:04 PM
Are you under the impression that the mujaheddin wanted the Soviets to stay? Your theory makes absolutely no sense. As soon as we leave, bin Laden and the local Taliban put a second notch in their RPGs where they keep track of the number of super powers they've forced out of that region. It may be that in the end we'll decide to leave, but don't kid yourself about it. It will be a clear victory for the people we're fighting against when we do.

What will the people we are fighting against have won?

And if they lose, what will we have won?

patteeu
06-23-2010, 06:08 PM
What will the people we are fighting against have won?

Afghanistan and the prestige of having defeated another superpower.

And if they lose, what will we have won?

A stable, western-compatible Afghanistan.

banyon
06-23-2010, 06:27 PM
I believe he was quoted in The 9-11 report as saying so. If you look at the situation we're following the same road as the Soviets. Why would Bin Laden want us to leave? We are wasting billions and thousands of Americans are being killed all while we are turning more muslims aginst us.

For ****s sake the same week it was revealed Karzahis brother is a drug lord a few DEA officers were killed in Afghanistan. This war is a joke.

The mujahadeen weren't actively flying planes into buildings in St. Petersburg prior to the war.

We quit here, then what's to stop them from regrouping, stronger, and more experienced, and carrying out another massive attack?

KC Dan
06-23-2010, 06:28 PM
The mujahadeen weren't actively flying planes into buildings in St. Petersburg prior to the war.

We quit here, then what's to stop them from regrouping, stronger, and more experienced, and carrying out another massive attack?Who the hell are you and what have you done with Banyon???

:D

banyon
06-23-2010, 06:37 PM
Who the hell are you and what have you done with Banyon???

:D

I've always supported the US effort in Afghanistan, as we have vital national security imperatives there.

I didn't support Iraq, as we didn't have those concerns, unless our presence there has subsequently created it.

KC Dan
06-23-2010, 06:49 PM
I've always supported the US effort in Afghanistan, as we have vital national security imperatives there.

I didn't support Iraq, as we didn't have those concerns, unless our presence there has subsequently created it.I knew that, it was sarcasm hence the smilie

Bwana
06-23-2010, 06:50 PM
Patton and MacArthur disagreed with FDR and Truman, but they didn't fire them over it. I think this could have been resolved through a little humble dialogue rather than the way it was done.

Hell just froze over. I agree with your post. I think Berry was butt hut over the remarks so he kicked him to the curb. If he would have let him off the hook with a "don't ever let this shit happen again," I think it would have gone a long way in building relations with the Rep and the troops on the ground over there. The way things worked out, I expect a book by McChrystal that hits the best seller list within the next year.

Taco John
06-23-2010, 06:55 PM
A stable, western-compatible Afghanistan.


ROFL

What a silly idea. We might as well be fighting to force their culture to accept all males wearing tube tops as standard garment. We're going to have the same amount of success with that goal as with hoping for anything stable or western compatible to come out of Afghanistan.

VAChief
06-23-2010, 06:58 PM
ROFL

What a silly idea. We might as well be fighting to force their culture to accept all males wearing tube tops as standard garment. We're going to have the same amount of success with that goal as with hoping for anything stable or western compatible to come out of Afghanistan.

Gee, if we only had a better place to use the trillion dollars and counting we have spent so far chasing cave men around.

BucEyedPea
06-23-2010, 06:58 PM
ROFL

What a silly idea. We might as well be fighting to force their culture to accept all males wearing tube tops as standard garment. We're going to have the same amount of success with that goal as with hoping for anything stable or western compatible to come out of Afghanistan.

OMG Did pat actually say that? What a bunch of oxymorons.

|Zach|
06-23-2010, 07:04 PM
Hell just froze over. I agree with your post. I think Berry was butt hut over the remarks so he kicked him to the curb. If he would have let him off the hook with a "don't ever let this shit happen again," I think it would have gone a long way in building relations with the Rep and the troops on the ground over there. The way things worked out, I expect a book by McChrystal that hits the best seller list within the next year.

Meh, you would have been right here calling Obama a pussy for letting his own people dress him down like that had he dealt with it in that way.

Taco John
06-23-2010, 07:06 PM
OMG Did pat actually say that? What a bunch of oxymorons.


Sounds like Jiminy Cricket. If we just wish upon enough stars, and sacrifice enough soldiers, maybe they'll love us!

Taco John
06-23-2010, 07:08 PM
I personally don't think you can blame Obama or McChrystal for this. This war was ill conveived in the first place. How do we win this war? What front do we need to take? Who do we need to conquer?

We're trying to solve a cultural problem with a militaristic solution. Mexico might as well be shooting Arizonan's in the face and demanding that they accept them because they're here to stay. Yeah, that would go over real well.

DJ's left nut
06-23-2010, 07:11 PM
Patton and MacArthur disagreed with FDR and Truman, but they didn't fire them over it. I think this could have been resolved through a little humble dialogue rather than the way it was done.

Perhaps this has already been pointed out, but yes, Truman absolutely fired MacArthur.

I believe he replaced him with Ridgeway. It's pretty much what kept us from getting annihalated in Korea.

Bwana
06-23-2010, 07:49 PM
Meh, you would have been right here calling Obama a pussy for letting his own people dress him down like that had he dealt with it in that way.

:doh!:

Honestly, I wouldn't have, in fact, I would have gained some respect for the guy.

banyon
06-23-2010, 09:01 PM
Perhaps this has already been pointed out, but yes, Truman absolutely fired MacArthur.

I believe he replaced him with Ridgeway. It's pretty much what kept us from getting annihalated in Korea.

Sorry, I should have specified I meant during WWII.

ChiefaRoo
06-23-2010, 09:12 PM
You guys know I can't stand Obama. He's a poor excuse for a President. That being said he had to relieve McCrystal. I also think McCrystal's people let him down by letting Rolling Stone get so many damning quotes from his staff.

It's a shame. I wish the General all the best, he's a better leader of men than our President but the Office of the President can't be dissed like that.

Is it Nov. yet?