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The Rick
06-25-2010, 08:11 AM
Tthe release of the iPhone 4 yesterday and the hype/backlash surrounding it has caused me to kind of evaluate the way I see things. I've seen some "attacks" against Apple and the iPhone here (some directed at me) and elsewhere around the web. I've had someone at my place of employment try to convince me his new HTC Incredible was better than my new iPhone 4.

First, let me just say that I consider myself fairly educated when it comes to the tech industry. I manage our fleet of servers and a group of 5 server administrators at work. We have a mix of AIX, Red Hat Linux, and Windows servers. A majority of our servers run Windows. My background is in UNIX so I do most of the work myself on our AIX and Linux systems. Yesterday, I spent the day doing alternate disk migrations of AIX LPARs from 5.3 to 6.1 using NIM.

I give you that information solely to demonstrate that I'm a kind of a tinkerer by nature. I think most IT people are. I used to run Linux on my home PC in the past and all that.

Today, I find myself pretty heavily invested in Apple stuff. I have an iMac, iTouch Senior Citizen Edition, and iPhone. Why? Because the stuff just works, and I don't have to tinker with it.

It's different than when I was younger. Now that I'm older and have a wife and three young children, I don't want to have to tinker with stuff outside of work. I don't have time to. After work, I want to spend time with my kids. After the kids go to bed, I want to spend time with my wife. :evil:

As I said, I used to run Linux on my home PC. It worked great, and I was able to do some really cool stuff with it. However, I don't think anyone would admit that Linux is very polished. For the most part, running Linux means tinkering, which I did a lot of.

Android reminds me a lot of Linux (duh, it actually is Linux). I actually used a Nexus One from Google as my primary phone for over a week. I admit, you can do some really, really neat things with Android phones. Things you can't do with an iPhone. However, nothing beats an iPhone when it comes to polish.

Polish, my friends, is the key. At this point in my life, I don't want to feel like I have to tinker with something. With an Android phone, I do. With an iPhone, I don't. It's all about polish.

When it comes right down to it, there's a philosophical difference between Apple and Google. Google wants to produce some really cool, really advanced and open technical stuff, and they do a good job of it. Apple, on the other hand, wants to produce easy-to-use, highly polished stuff that's technical, and they do a great job. Again, it comes down to something just working without having to mess with it. Google's focus is technical achievement by way of openness, Apple's focus is "user experience" achievement.

There's a market for both. There will always be guys who love the advanced technical stuff and the freedom to tinker, and that's perfectly fine. On the other hand, there's a large amount of people (as evidenced by sales numbers) that want tech stuff that's polished and tech stuff they don't have to tinker with.

No one in the world beats Apple when it comes to tech stuff that's polished, and that's why they're so successful.

Saulbadguy
06-25-2010, 08:19 AM
ROFL

The Rick
06-25-2010, 08:24 AM
ROFL
:rolleyes:

I would have expected nothing less from you.

Saulbadguy
06-25-2010, 08:27 AM
:rolleyes:

I would have expected nothing less from you.

Just fairly pathetic the lengths you would go to defend a company of which you purchase technology from.

This coming from an owner of an iPhone 4.

The Rick
06-25-2010, 08:39 AM
Just fairly pathetic the lengths you would go to defend a company of which you purchase technology from.

This coming from an owner of an iPhone 4.
Defending them from what? Defending them from who? And what "lengths" are you talking about? A quick post on a message board?

You might want to avoid throwing around that "pathetic" word when in the midst of sitting at a faceless computer, attacking someone on an Internet message board without reason, fact, or any semblance of intelligent thought process.

You know what they say, most men who hide behind a computer and play tough on Internet message boards are compensating for some sort of deficiency. What's yours?

Pestilence
06-25-2010, 09:44 AM
I admit, you can do some really, really neat things with Android phones. Things you can't do with an iPhone. However, nothing beats an iPhone when it comes to polish.

Polish, my friends, is the key. At this point in my life, I don't want to feel like I have to tinker with something. With an Android phone, I do. With an iPhone, I don't. It's all about polish.

When it comes right down to it, there's a philosophical difference between Apple and Google. Google wants to produce some really cool, really advanced and open technical stuff, and they do a good job of it. Apple, on the other hand, wants to produce easy-to-use, highly polished stuff that's technical, and they do a great job. Again, it comes down to something just working without having to mess with it. Google's focus is technical achievement by way of openness, Apple's focus is "user experience" achievement.



So is polish...making a phone that you can't hold a certain way because it will knock your bars from 5 to 1?

Or is polish making a phone that people have to jailbreak to make it work like it should from the beginning?

irishjayhawk
06-25-2010, 09:46 AM
So is polish...making a phone that you can't hold a certain way because it will knock your bars from 5 to 1?

Or is polish making a phone that people have to jailbreak to make it work like it should from the beginning?

That's a problem with every phone. Difference is this is exaserbated because you're holding the actual antenna. Get a case and it's much better. Or don't hold lower left, and you're good.

Interestingly, none of the reviewers noticed this problem.

Pants
06-25-2010, 09:46 AM
Defending them from what? Defending them from who? And what "lengths" are you talking about? A quick post on a message board?

You might want to avoid throwing around that "pathetic" word when in the midst of sitting at a faceless computer, attacking someone on an Internet message board without reason, fact, or any semblance of intelligent thought process.

You know what they say, most men who hide behind a computer and play tough on Internet message boards are compensating for some sort of deficiency. What's yours?

I think you just need to take it easy there, Rico.

Pestilence
06-25-2010, 09:47 AM
That's a problem with every phone. Difference is this is exaserbated because you're holding the actual antenna. Get a case and it's much better. Or don't hold lower left, and you're good.

Interestingly, none of the reviewers noticed this problem.

Really? Every phone? In all of the years that I've owned cellphones.....I've never had this problem.

Palm Pre? Nope.

Palm Treo? Nope.

Samsung Instinct? Nope.

Blackberry? Nope.

irishjayhawk
06-25-2010, 09:49 AM
Really? Every phone? In all of the years that I've owned cellphones.....I've never had this problem.

Palm Pre? Nope.

Palm Treo? Nope.

Samsung Instinct? Nope.

Blackberry? Nope.

I'm betting you have, you just haven't noticed it. I've had it on all my phones. Granted, I've had really crappy phones so far.

Based on how I hold it, the bars will fluctuate. Does it go from 5 to 1? Sometimes. Most of the time it's just a 1-2 bar difference.


IN case you didn't see my link in other threads:

http://www.antennasys.com/antennasys-blog/2010/6/24/apple-iphone-4-antennas.html

The Rick
06-25-2010, 09:55 AM
So is polish...making a phone that you can't hold a certain way because it will knock your bars from 5 to 1?

I can't really comment because I'm unable to duplicate the issue. In fact, I have a better signal now than ever before.

Or is polish making a phone that people have to jailbreak to make it work like it should from the beginning?

This really doesn't support your argument in the least. Who's the authority on how it "should" work? If you're going by numbers alone, the iPhone is the #1 smartphone and the number of non-jailbreakers far outweighs the number of those who do jailbreak.

The better question is why those jailbreakers don't just get an Android phone instead, so they can do all the tinkering they want without the heartache? You can't say it's due to contracts at this point.

BCD
06-25-2010, 09:56 AM
ROFLThis...

Fish
06-25-2010, 10:04 AM
I can't really comment because I'm unable to duplicate the issue. In fact, I have a better signal now than ever before.



This really doesn't support your argument in the least. Who's the authority on how it "should" work? If you're going by numbers alone, the iPhone is the #1 smartphone and the number of non-jailbreakers far outweighs the number of those who do jailbreak.

The better question is why those jailbreakers don't just get an Android phone instead, so they can do all the tinkering they want without the heartache? You can't say it's due to contracts at this point.

For me, jailbreaking the iPhone is the perfect solution. I start with a very quality product that is simple to use and very dependable. With a bajillion apps to choose from. And then add the jailbreaking aspect, which allows me to customize the phone any way I want, and run non-App Store apps that are incredibly functional and highly useful. It's essentially the best of both worlds. I have the most useful phone out there, and still get to tinker to my heart's content. Other casual iPhone owners are just spellbound when they see the things my jailbroken iPhone can do. There's no heartache for me due to jailbreaking, I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Otter
06-25-2010, 10:17 AM
Other casual iPhone owners are just spellbound when they see the things my jailbroken iPhone can do. There's no heartache for me due to jailbreaking, I'm not sure what you mean by that.

What are some examples if you don't mind sharing?

I have yet to purchase a smart phone (the coolest thing my current phone does is play MP3s and a Java driven game of Tetris) because I've lost my cell phone so many times in the past but from the research I've done I've been swayed heavily towards the Droid team.

irishjayhawk
06-25-2010, 10:18 AM
For me, jailbreaking the iPhone is the perfect solution. I start with a very quality product that is simple to use and very dependable. With a bajillion apps to choose from. And then add the jailbreaking aspect, which allows me to customize the phone any way I want, and run non-App Store apps that are incredibly functional and highly useful. It's essentially the best of both worlds. I have the most useful phone out there, and still get to tinker to my heart's content. Other casual iPhone owners are just spellbound when they see the things my jailbroken iPhone can do. There's no heartache for me due to jailbreaking, I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Do you jailbreak it for use on other carriers?

The Rick
06-25-2010, 10:20 AM
For me, jailbreaking the iPhone is the perfect solution. I start with a very quality product that is simple to use and very dependable. With a bajillion apps to choose from. And then add the jailbreaking aspect, which allows me to customize the phone any way I want, and run non-App Store apps that are incredibly functional and highly useful. It's essentially the best of both worlds. I have the most useful phone out there, and still get to tinker to my heart's content. Other casual iPhone owners are just spellbound when they see the things my jailbroken iPhone can do. There's no heartache for me due to jailbreaking, I'm not sure what you mean by that.
That was actually kind of the point I was getting at, in a round about way. The point being that rather than use an Android device which in theory should be much easier to make work the way they want, iPhone jailbreakers like you still exist. Why is that? You said it perfectly...it allows you to start with a quality, polished product (I include the "bajillion apps" as part of the polish the iPhone offers) and do your own thing with it. Why don't you use an Android device instead? It sounds to me that it doesn't offer the quality and polish you're seeking.

Also, regarding my "heartache" comment. You do have to admit, however, that there is a little bit of _____ (substitute whatever word you want for heartache). Given the unsupported nature of jailbreaking, you do have to worry about updates. An update to iTunes may cause you issues. When a new version of iOS comes out, you do have to hold off on updating until there's a jailbreak for the new version or worry about your phone being bricked, etc.

vailpass
06-25-2010, 10:25 AM
Is the OP a joke? It reads like an Onion article.

The Rick
06-25-2010, 10:41 AM
I guess my point is this:

It seems to be standard protocol for a lot of non-iPhone/Apple people to pound their chest, jump up and down, and ridicule those of us who do use and like our iPhones because of its perceived shortcomings. Most of those perceived shortcomings relate to it's non-open nature vs. the open nature of Android devices.

I'm simply stating that some of us (actually, many of us if you look at total sales) don't care. We don't care that we can't tinker with our phone. We'd rather use something that we think just works well and that we don't feel we have to mess with all the time.

Why does that seem to offend so much?

Like I said, I think there are some Android phones with some really cool technology built in. For example, an HDMI out port is cool. It's very cutting edge and a neat achievement, but it's just not important right now for me (and many others).

Techy people who like to tinker, Android is for you, I've got no problem with that. You're not really Apple's target market.

In other words, to each his own.

Bob Dole
06-25-2010, 10:42 AM
So is polish...making a phone that you can't hold a certain way because it will knock your bars from 5 to 1?

You can fix that "issue" for about a penny. It's called electrical tape.

The Rick
06-25-2010, 10:44 AM
Is the OP a joke? It reads like an Onion article.

Should I take that as a compliment? :)

Pestilence
06-25-2010, 10:49 AM
I guess my point is this:

It seems to be standard protocol for a lot of non-iPhone/Apple people to pound their chest, jump up and down, and ridicule those of us who do use and like our iPhones because of its perceived shortcomings. Most of those perceived shortcomings relate to it's non-open nature vs. the open nature of Android devices.



Just like it seems to be standard protocol that a lot of pro iPhone/Apple people will jump up and down....and beat their chest for anything that's made by Apple.....even if it doesn't work correctly or stops working completely.

Fish
06-25-2010, 10:49 AM
What are some examples if you don't mind sharing?

I have yet to purchase a smart phone (the coolest thing my current phone does is play MP3s and a Java driven game of Tetris) because I've lost my cell phone so many times in the past but from the research I've done I've been swayed heavily towards the Droid team.

Flash player.
Winterboard, which allows for absolutely any customization you desire(fonts, icons, sounds, backgrounds, dialer, etc.)
Complete Lock screen customization(any info you want on the lockscreen).
PDANet, which turns your iPhone into a wireless router.
Multitasking.
Terminal, which lets you SSH into other computers.
VNC and RDP apps. I can log into any of my work Windows,Mac, or Unix boxes from my iPhone and have complete control.
Flash drive mode. I can use my iPhone as a flash drive with drag and drop file management from a PC or Mac.
NES, SEGA, etc. emulators.
And lots of stuff that has conveniently been added to iOS4, that was previously only possible through jailbreak.

Rausch
06-25-2010, 10:52 AM
At this point everything (hiddenly) runs on Linux...

vailpass
06-25-2010, 10:54 AM
Should I take that as a compliment? :)

:D The Onion is one of my favorite on-line publications, no doubt about it.

The Rick
06-25-2010, 10:57 AM
Just like it seems to be standard protocol that a lot of pro iPhone/Apple people will jump up and down....and beat their chest for anything that's made by Apple.....even if it doesn't work correctly or stops working completely.
So you're saying the attacks directed at me are due to stereotyping?
:eek:

Pestilence
06-25-2010, 10:57 AM
So you're saying the attacks directed at me are due to stereotyping?
:eek:

When did I attack you?

The Rick
06-25-2010, 11:05 AM
When did I attack you?
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you did! :) I was referring to others.

The Rick
06-25-2010, 11:06 AM
Exhibit A of Stereotyping (if that's what it is):

People that buy I-phones don't even care. They are so in such a trance Apple could butt f*ck their mother and they would think it was cool.

Fish
06-25-2010, 11:07 AM
That was actually kind of the point I was getting at, in a round about way. The point being that rather than use an Android device which in theory should be much easier to make work the way they want, iPhone jailbreakers like you still exist. Why is that? You said it perfectly...it allows you to start with a quality, polished product (I include the "bajillion apps" as part of the polish the iPhone offers) and do your own thing with it. Why don't you use an Android device instead? It sounds to me that it doesn't offer the quality and polish you're seeking.

Also, regarding my "heartache" comment. You do have to admit, however, that there is a little bit of _____ (substitute whatever word you want for heartache). Given the unsupported nature of jailbreaking, you do have to worry about updates. An update to iTunes may cause you issues. When a new version of iOS comes out, you do have to hold off on updating until there's a jailbreak for the new version or worry about your phone being bricked, etc.

I would really have no problem doing the same things on an Android phone. The large majority of stuff is possible on both. My work provided my iPhone in order to be able to troubleshoot problems our users have with their iPhones, and I simply customized it to do everything I need to do. I worked with what they gave me, and ended up being very happy with the end results. If they'd given me an Android phone, I'd do the same.

I don't worry about updates at all. I have iTunes configured to only do manual updates, and I control that exactly as I please. Updating isn't really that difficult despite the jailbreak. There are plenty of tools available that make that a pretty simple procedure. And I hold off on updating to the newest version right away regardless of jailbreak. I depend on my phone too much to be an early adopter. But even if I didn't, every new iPhone OS has been jailbroken in less than a week from release.

iPhone vs. whatever... ehh... there's no real winner. Just make either one do what you want it to do.

vailpass
06-25-2010, 11:15 AM
Exhibit A of Stereotyping (if that's what it is):

Are you saying there aren't Apple fanboys out there?
Are you saying you aren't one of them?
Dude, look at the OP and tell me you aren't a fanboy.

The Rick
06-25-2010, 11:18 AM
iPhone vs. whatever... ehh... there's no real winner. Just make either one do what you want it to do.
Again, that's kind of my point. I don't "hate on" people for having an Android phone, or any other smartphone for that matter. I think there are some great Android phones. I tried one for a week and liked it, for the most part. I believe different phones cater to different types of people.

teedubya
06-25-2010, 11:31 AM
I can say this about Apple... and the i.Pad... I have had it about 2 months and it has crashed ZERO times.

My Droid phone... needs to be rebooted with the battery taken out... about twice a week.

Yeah, Apple is polished... but Android is quickly getting it's shit together.

Sure-Oz
06-25-2010, 11:34 AM
i want a droid incredible anyone have one?

i have one guy my girl works with and he loves it

my parents and aunt and uncle love their iphones but dont need the new one

Saulbadguy
06-25-2010, 11:51 AM
Again, that's kind of my point. I don't "hate on" people for having an Android phone, or any other smartphone for that matter. I think there are some great Android phones. I tried one for a week and liked it, for the most part. I believe different phones cater to different types of people.

For someone who doesn't care, you care a lot.

Otter
06-25-2010, 11:52 AM
Flash player.
Winterboard, which allows for absolutely any customization you desire(fonts, icons, sounds, backgrounds, dialer, etc.)
Complete Lock screen customization(any info you want on the lockscreen).
PDANet, which turns your iPhone into a wireless router.
Multitasking.
Terminal, which lets you SSH into other computers.
VNC and RDP apps. I can log into any of my work Windows,Mac, or Unix boxes from my iPhone and have complete control.
Flash drive mode. I can use my iPhone as a flash drive with drag and drop file management from a PC or Mac.
NES, SEGA, etc. emulators.
And lots of stuff that has conveniently been added to iOS4, that was previously only possible through jailbreak.

Now, let's say you were hurried out the door from your local watering hole by an impatient woman and left your IPhone sitting on the bar never to be seen again.

What's to stop a tech-savvy opportunist from breaking into everything you have access to as well as a good chunk of your lives information?

Is there an app that allows you call up the phone and enter a "self-destruct" code? Something that can trigger a factory reset would do the trick. That would be a huge selling point for me given me history with cell phones.

HC_Chief
06-25-2010, 12:00 PM
Now, let's say you were hurried out the door from your local watering hole by an impatient woman and left your IPhone sitting on the bar never to be seen again.

What's to stop a tech-savvy opportunist from breaking into everything you have access to as well as a good chunk of your lives information?

Is there an app that allows you call up the phone and enter a "self-destruct" code? Something that can trigger a factory reset would do the trick. That would be a huge selling point for me given me history with cell phones.

You can set up an iPhone to auto-wipe based upon number of failed unlock attempts. Of course that means you have to pass-lock your phone; a manual process because the phones come with that feature OFF BY DEFAULT. :facepalm:

morphius
06-25-2010, 12:26 PM
If you were truly worried about polish you wouldn't be buying a device the first day it was released, just like you don't take the latest greatest OS release and install it into production the day it comes out. Of course knocking Linux while pimping a BSD company is just short of genious. And it is reasons like this that people get annoyed with and eventually attack iphone and iphone users.

Rausch
06-25-2010, 12:39 PM
If you were truly worried about polish you wouldn't be buying a device the first day it was released, just like you don't take the latest greatest OS release and install it into production the day it comes out.

This.

Otter
06-25-2010, 12:51 PM
You can set up an iPhone to auto-wipe based upon number of failed unlock attempts. Of course that means you have to pass-lock your phone; a manual process because the phones come with that feature OFF BY DEFAULT. :facepalm:

That's a plus but I don't know if it puts to rest my concerns about having so much personal data on such an easily lost device. I honestly don't know if I'll ever go down this road (at least to the point KC Fish has) because of this concern.

Fish
06-25-2010, 12:54 PM
Now, let's say you were hurried out the door from your local watering hole by an impatient woman and left your IPhone sitting on the bar never to be seen again.

What's to stop a tech-savvy opportunist from breaking into everything you have access to as well as a good chunk of your lives information?

Is there an app that allows you call up the phone and enter a "self-destruct" code? Something that can trigger a factory reset would do the trick. That would be a huge selling point for me given me history with cell phones.

Phone unlock code is required to access the device. And each app I use to remote into anything requires a password. All important data is encrypted.

And yes, you can reset the iPhone remotely. Erases everything and puts it back to factory state. That's exactly what happened when the iPhone 4 prototype was left in a bar by one of the engineers. They zapped it remotely very quickly and made it totally unusable.

Otter
06-25-2010, 01:21 PM
Phone unlock code is required to access the device. And each app I use to remote into anything requires a password. All important data is encrypted.

And yes, you can reset the iPhone remotely. Erases everything and puts it back to factory state. That's exactly what happened when the iPhone 4 prototype was left in a bar by one of the engineers. They zapped it remotely very quickly and made it totally unusable.

I didn't think someone with your tech savvy would have all the passwords saved but it's a very common practice for companies to assign first initial and last name as the log in. That's half the battle right there.

Just paranoid about security after some of the stuff I've seen pulled off. I never paid for pizza delivered from the cafeteria just from picking up receipts with peoples account number on it for four years of college.

That's about all I'm willing to admit to on the net.

I did find some info on the app you spoke of although:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/06/17/mobileme_pushes_out_new_find_my_iphone_remote_wipe_service.html

They used Tony's house from "The Sopranos" as the location in the demo at the bottom. That's awesome.

:thumb:

dirk digler
06-25-2010, 01:23 PM
I have been trying for the better part of a year or longer to get my boss (CIO) to allow us to use Iphones but he won't because he thinks they are a security risk. Our company uses AT&T and they don't have any droid phones IIRC so I don't have shit to play with. :harumph:

The Rick
06-25-2010, 01:24 PM
If you were truly worried about polish you wouldn't be buying a device the first day it was released, just like you don't take the latest greatest OS release and install it into production the day it comes out. Of course knocking Linux while pimping a BSD company is just short of genious. And it is reasons like this that people get annoyed with and eventually attack iphone and iphone users.
I know that Mac OS X, at the core, is BSD. You must admit though that it's so obscured, you can hardly call it BSD anymore.

Otter
06-25-2010, 01:37 PM
I have been trying for the better part of a year or longer to get my boss (CIO) to allow us to use Iphones but he won't because he thinks they are a security risk. Our company uses AT&T and they don't have any droid phones IIRC so I don't have shit to play with. :harumph:

My work phone is a Blackberry. I'd be tempted to lose it but they have a whole closet full and 2 more years on the contract.

Fish
06-25-2010, 03:46 PM
I didn't think someone with your tech savvy would have all the passwords saved but it's a very common practice for companies to assign first initial and last name as the log in. That's half the battle right there.

Just paranoid about security after some of the stuff I've seen pulled off. I never paid for pizza delivered from the cafeteria just from picking up receipts with peoples account number on it for four years of college.

That's about all I'm willing to admit to on the net.

I did find some info on the app you spoke of although:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/06/17/mobileme_pushes_out_new_find_my_iphone_remote_wipe_service.html

They used Tony's house from "The Sopranos" as the location in the demo at the bottom. That's awesome.

:thumb:

LOL... yeah, I have a feeling we could swap some pretty humorous stories about taking advantage of the system while in college... My moral compass was slightly malfunctioned back at that age.

And RemoteWipe(LMAO..) is a nice feature for the piece of mind it provides.

Another interesting aspect of jailbreaking is that once an iPhone is jailbroken, it can really open itself up to the outside world and it's ability to be hacked. Most people don't realize how much so. Jailbreaking provides a method to SSH into the iPhone itself. And the password for root access is the same on all iPhones/iTouchs/iTouch Senior Citizen Editions until manually changed. It's "alpine". So if a user just knows enough to jailbreak it and not secure it properly afterward, they're basically leaving an SSH client running on the phone with a known root password. You'd be surprised how many iPhones are out in the wild in that exact state. It's pretty easy to change the root password and turn off SSH, but most folks don't bother. Depending on what services they're running, a mischievous geek could seriously assassinate some iPhones out there if they wanted too... :D

Bearcat
06-25-2010, 06:48 PM
I get what you're saying about Linux... I run Windows 7 and Ubuntu 10.04 on my laptop, and Ubuntu can be frustrating when you just want it to work.

But, Android? What do you mean tinkering with Android? Android is fine. Yeah, you can potentially tinker with it a lot more than an iPhone, but it's not like you have to spend a day Googling stuff so you can figure out how to make a phone call, like you might have to spend a day getting Ubuntu working.

If you hadn't mentioned the i4 and Nexus One (the over a week part is really funny), I would have checked the date of the post. I have an ancient G1 that runs Android 1.6, and as far as it 'just working', I can't think of anything that would make it better. I'm sure a Nexus One is more slick, and the Evo is extremely slick & also just works.

So, exactly how does Apple make it easier on you? What do you not have to tinker with that you would have to tinker with on an Android phone?

The Rick
06-25-2010, 08:26 PM
I get what you're saying about Linux... I run Windows 7 and Ubuntu 10.04 on my laptop, and Ubuntu can be frustrating when you just want it to work.

But, Android? What do you mean tinkering with Android? Android is fine. Yeah, you can potentially tinker with it a lot more than an iPhone, but it's not like you have to spend a day Googling stuff so you can figure out how to make a phone call, like you might have to spend a day getting Ubuntu working.

If you hadn't mentioned the i4 and Nexus One (the over a week part is really funny), I would have checked the date of the post. I have an ancient G1 that runs Android 1.6, and as far as it 'just working', I can't think of anything that would make it better. I'm sure a Nexus One is more slick, and the Evo is extremely slick & also just works.

So, exactly how does Apple make it easier on you? What do you not have to tinker with that you would have to tinker with on an Android phone?
Thanks for the respectful, well-thought-out response. :thumb:

Don't get me wrong, Android isn't horrible by any means. I personally just don't think it's quite on the level of the iPhone when it comes to the polish (sidenote...everytime I type "polish" I read it as being the people of Poland :) ).

A couple of examples I can think of:

1. Media syncing is lacking (I know Google is addressing this soon, which will be huge for them). For all its faults, people "get" iTunes, and iTunes makes it dead simple to sync media to an iPhone. On an Android phone, you have to manually sync your media via drag and drop.

In addition, the default music player for Android is pretty lacking (I know they're fixing this too), enough that it makes sense to download an alternate.
There is no default video player, so you have to go download one.

2. One mail application for personal email (the Gmail app), yet a separate mail application for work email (Exchange).

3. A really good example is video chat. With the new iPhone 4, it's a no brainer. It's built in. Make a call to someone, then hit the button for video chat. In Android, it's a separate app.

None of this stuff is very difficult for tech people. And again, I'm not knocking anyone who uses an Android phone. I do admire some of the things they're doing, and the way they're doing them. I just personally want to use something that doesn't make me have to think about tech stuff when I'm away from work.

AustinChief
06-25-2010, 08:41 PM
Thanks for the respectful, well-thought-out response. :thumb:

Don't get me wrong, Android isn't horrible by any means. I personally just don't think it's quite on the level of the iPhone when it comes to the polish (sidenote...everytime I type "polish" I read it as being the people of Poland :) ).

A couple of examples I can think of:

1. Media syncing is lacking (I know Google is addressing this soon, which will be huge for them). For all its faults, people "get" iTunes, and iTunes makes it dead simple to sync media to an iPhone. On an Android phone, you have to manually sync your media via drag and drop.

In addition, the default music player for Android is pretty lacking (I know they're fixing this too), enough that it makes sense to download an alternate.
There is no default video player, so you have to go download one.

2. One mail application for personal email (the Gmail app), yet a separate mail application for work email (Exchange).

3. A really good example is video chat. With the new iPhone 4, it's a no brainer. It's built in. Make a call to someone, then hit the button for video chat. In Android, it's a separate app.

None of this stuff is very difficult for tech people. And again, I'm not knocking anyone who uses an Android phone. I do admire some of the things they're doing, and the way they're doing them. I just personally want to use something that doesn't make me have to think about tech stuff when I'm away from work.

I expect almost all of this and more will be fixed when Gingerbread comes out. The head of WebOS UI development ( Matias Duarte ) has come over to Google to head up Android UI... He is the best in the business and will get Android's "look and feel" and overall usability to the best on the market. I agree that right now it's WebOS then iOS then android when you are talking about "polish", but Google knows this and are making a solid effort to fix it by sometime Q4.

Bearcat
06-25-2010, 09:38 PM
1. Media syncing is lacking (I know Google is addressing this soon, which will be huge for them). For all its faults, people "get" iTunes, and iTunes makes it dead simple to sync media to an iPhone. On an Android phone, you have to manually sync your media via drag and drop.

In addition, the default music player for Android is pretty lacking (I know they're fixing this too), enough that it makes sense to download an alternate.
There is no default video player, so you have to go download one.


Definitely. It's very well integrated with the iPhone, and not so much with Android. I have Pandora on my phone, but I still prefer my iPod when it comes to my own music library (even though I don't use iTunes).



2. One mail application for personal email (the Gmail app), yet a separate mail application for work email (Exchange).


I sort of get what you're saying... I only use the Gmail app, so I don't know if it's a consistent look/feel to both. You could configure your Gmail account in the separate email app and have it all together, even though it would be delayed since it's pull and the Gmail app is push. I wouldn't think there's any more/less configuration between the two phones, even though Android could be integrated.


3. A really good example is video chat. With the new iPhone 4, it's a no brainer. It's built in. Make a call to someone, then hit the button for video chat. In Android, it's a separate app.


I've never used it, but I get your point... a while back I went from WinMo ( :Lin: ) to Android, and all the integration that people have probably taken for granted on the iPhone for years, just between contacts/phone/search/text/photos/etc, was the coolest stuff ever for me. When I go to share a picture, I have the choice between Messaging, Gmail, Facebook, Google Goggles, Photobucket, and Picasa... pretty simple, yet really cool....




None of this stuff is very difficult for tech people. And again, I'm not knocking anyone who uses an Android phone. I do admire some of the things they're doing, and the way they're doing them. I just personally want to use something that doesn't make me have to think about tech stuff when I'm away from work.

...but, a lot of what you mentioned is more about polish, IMO, than tech/tinkering. Yeah, Android has two email apps, but the tech behind it is the same (and if you only have a GMail account, it's slightly easier to set up on Android)... you still have to configure the email accounts that you want, even if it's two apps. Having video chat integrated is cool, but if it's just a matter of downloading a separate app, it's just another icon on your phone (well, if there's no configuration with it).

Really, the biggest reason I've never considered an iPhone is AT&T. The last time I checked, the plan I have now with TMobile was like $35 more a month with AT&T (granted, I've been with TMobile for over 10 years), and a major chunk of that was charging $15 a month for unlimited texting on top of an unlimited data plan. Then again, if I wanted to go all out, I'd probably go with the Evo.

WilliamTheIrish
06-26-2010, 06:59 PM
My take on The Rick's take:

The Rick manages a row of servers.

The Rick says he is a techie.

The Rick loves Apple.

The Rick gets upset when when anybody disparages Apple.

The Rick could a be a Apple BBS trial lawyer with IJ as his para.

WilliamTheIrish
06-26-2010, 07:00 PM
Rick,

Just enjoy your phone.

The Rick
06-26-2010, 08:41 PM
My take on The Rick's take:

The Rick manages a row of servers.

The Rick says he is a techie.

The Rick loves Apple.

The Rick gets upset when when anybody disparages Apple.

The Rick could a be a Apple BBS trial lawyer with IJ as his para.
I don't get upset when anyone disparages Apple. I really could care less. It's stuff like this that irks me:

People that buy I-phones don't even care. They are so in such a trance Apple could butt f*ck their mother and they would think it was cool.

Complain about Apple all you want. Pick apart the products, the flaws, whatever. It's no skin off my back.

This thread was to simply state the ways in which I believe Apple stuff and Google stuff are different, and why I, to this point, have chosen the Apple stuff.

tk13
06-26-2010, 09:23 PM
I own a Droid, I'm happy with it... I think the iPhone does a lot of things well. Biggest thing in my book is some of the apps seem to be more developed on the iPhone, but it's been around a lot longer. I think developers will catch up to Android. Both phones have areas where they are stronger and weaker than the other phones. The biggest thing for me is I'd rather be on Verizon than AT&T.

I guess it depends on what you use your phone for... of course this thread doesn't mention any of the things Android does well. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be "tinkering" with. I think Google maps, voice navigation, voice texting, voice search are all very efficient, for instance.

Dave Lane
06-26-2010, 10:23 PM
This. I have owned all the expensive phones out there from Sony, blackberry, to palm nothing is even close. I thought the other stuff was good till I jail broke my iPhone and now to me anything else is just a tin can with a string.

For me, jailbreaking the iPhone is the perfect solution. I start with a very quality product that is simple to use and very dependable. With a bajillion apps to choose from. And then add the jailbreaking aspect, which allows me to customize the phone any way I want, and run non-App Store apps that are incredibly functional and highly useful. It's essentially the best of both worlds. I have the most useful phone out there, and still get to tinker to my heart's content. Other casual iPhone owners are just spellbound when they see the things my jailbroken iPhone can do. There's no heartache for me due to jailbreaking, I'm not sure what you mean by that.

The Rick
06-26-2010, 10:52 PM
Here...maybe this will make some of you feel better. :)

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fLreo24WYeQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fLreo24WYeQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Fish
06-27-2010, 02:27 AM
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4435/macfans.gif

3rd&48ers
06-27-2010, 03:57 AM
If you like the Iphone then buy the Iphone... Personally I really like my Droid and it does all I need it to do.... Is it perfect? Nope... but everytime it has screwed up a simple battery pull has fixed it.....

The thing the Droid does not do as good as other phones I have used is the fact I don't like to talk on it unless I am using a Bluetooth device or the speaker phone, it sucks as a phone if you have to hold it to your ear...

Saulbadguy
06-27-2010, 08:52 AM
I don't get upset when anyone disparages Apple. I really could care less.

hahahahaha

WilliamTheIrish
06-27-2010, 09:43 AM
The Rick cares not.

Pablo
06-28-2010, 08:53 PM
Steve Jobs could take a shit in The Rick's hand and tell him "It just works".

The Rick would smash the wet turd to his face eagerly and enjoy his newly crested shit-ear.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-28-2010, 09:14 PM
Reading this thread makes me want to go out and buy an Evo.

Pablo
06-28-2010, 09:21 PM
Reading this thread makes me want to go out and buy an Evo.It almost makes me embarrassed to own my iPod touch.

I mean, I like it and all and it's a great product. But if Apple products had an iOrifice it's likely The Rick's pool-boy would sprain his cock in about 3 days.

Fish
06-28-2010, 09:49 PM
Look at the iPhone bashing...

This old iPhone can withstand a Death Ray for 2:00. And it still plays music the whole time, despite being awash in flames and Death Ray destruction.

<object width="640" height="385">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/U1jS59uJ3PA&rel=0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="640" height="385"></object>

Keep fucking doubting iPhone... :D