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Taco John
06-25-2010, 09:21 AM
Uh Oh, Is Apple's iPhone 4 A Lemon?


Jay Yarow | Jun. 24, 2010, 10:05 AM |

http://static.businessinsider.com/image/4c235ff87f8b9a956e310000-349-464/iphone-4-broken.jpg

Apple's iPhone 4 is off to a rough start (sales numbers, excepted).

The phone is barely in the hands of consumers, and there have been widespread gripes from early adopters. Some of these aren't one-off whines either--in one case, they involve a legitimate concern that seems to affect every unit.

The biggest complaint to emerge is that the phone's signal strength drops when a user grips the phone by the metal antenna band. Gizmodo has over a dozen videos of users showing off this problem. (http://gizmodo.com/5571171/iphone-4-loses-reception-when-you-hold-it-by-the-antenna-band)

We've run the same test on our phone. When we held the phone in front of us in our left hand with our fingers touching the metal band, the bars representing signal strength dropped from 5 to 1 in less than a minute.

The problem appears to involve finger-contact on certain parts of the metal band. When we switched the phone to our right hand (which put our fingers in different positions), the signal strength remained the same.

This is a strange error. Assuming the signal strength actually affects the quality of phone calls, Apple had better be able to fix this problem with a firmware update, or it will likely have millions of irate customers.

Other reported iPhone 4 problems are of the one-off type. They include screens shipping with discoloration, including yellowing in the bottom right corner and fragility. The iPhone has already been scratched by at least one user, and another user says s/he dropped an iPhone from a foot up and the glass back of the phone shattered.

Apple will likely sell 1+ million units today, so the scratched, broken, and yellow phones don't seem much of a concern (although any other company would be catching hell for them). The reception problem, however, could be a big issue.


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Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/iphone-4-problem-2010-6#ixzz0rsHogyW8

DMAC
06-25-2010, 09:44 AM
Ive been reading on macforums about this. It looks like it is a production issue with the initial batch of phones. Dont know if that is Foxconn or not. The test phone engadget has does not have this issue at all.

Guess i am glad i ordered mine late!

Fish
06-25-2010, 10:14 AM
Yeah... this is why the "OMG OMG must have new toy at 7am the first fucking day, wait in line, twitter about my new purchase" consumers are idiots.... they're essentially the final beta testers for the product.

Donger
06-25-2010, 10:21 AM
I don't see how a firmware fix is going to solve a hardware (RF/antenna) problem.

irishjayhawk
06-25-2010, 10:27 AM
I don't see how a firmware fix is going to solve a hardware (RF/antenna) problem.

Yeah, that's my concern.

But apparently this isn't an uncommon problem, it just happens to be a little more visible to the end users.

http://www.antennasys.com/antennasys-blog/2010/6/24/apple-iphone-4-antennas.html

I received a phone call today from PC Magazine. They were running a story on the new Apple iPhone 4, specifically the reports (PC Mag, Gizmodo, Engadget) that people are experiencing decreased reception on their cell phone when they hold the phone by the metal frame. That frame has been touted by Apple, in the keynote address by Jobs, as being part of the antenna system. Here is a brief summary of what I told the reporter who called me, and a little extra. (I will update this with his name when he emails me.)

I saw the photo of the frame of the iPhone in the slideshow at the end of Steve Job's keynote address at the Developer's Conference. There are three gaps in the stainless steel band which are allegedly part of the antenna system. I have not had alot of time to analyze their structure, nor do I have one in my hands yet. So, either it is public relations hokum, or those slots are really part of the antenna structure. They do appear to be active, based on observations.

In the first generation iPhone (which I am currently using), the antennas were on the back of the phone, near the bottom. There was a piece of plastic on the bottom covering the antennas, so you knew where they were. I developed a way to hold the phone which avoided covering this area with my hand, similar to the Gizmodo article linked above. It is worth stepping back a moment and asking the question, "Why are the antennas placed where my hand is MOST likely to cover it?" It's a fair question.

The FCC puts strict limits on the amount of energy from a handheld device that may be absorbed by the body. We call this Specific Absorbtion Rate, or SAR. In the olden days, when I walked ten miles to school in three feet of snow, uphill in both directions, cell phones had pull-up antennas. This allowed the designer to use a half-wave antenna variant, and put the point of maximum radiation somewhat away from the users cranium. Of course, most people did not think it was necessary and kept the antenna stowed. Motorola's flip phone acutally had a second helical antenna that was switched into place when this was the case. But, more importantly, SAR rules were not yet in effect.

Flip phones became yesterday's style, and phones were becoming more monolithic. Some phones, like the early Treo, kept the antenna in the traditional location at the top of the phone, near one edge, but reduced it to a short stub. Whips became stubs, stubs became bumps, and finally antennas were embedded into the rectangular volume of the phone. The trouble was SAR; if you left the antenna at the top, the user was now pressing it into their head, insuring lots of tissue heating. Enter the bottom-located cellphone antenna.

Just about every cell phone in current production has the antenna located at the bottom. This insures that the radiating portion of the antenna is furthest from the head. Apple was not the first to locate the antenna on the bottom, and certainly won't be the last. The problem is that humans have their hands below their ears, so the most natural position for the hand is covering the antenna. This can't be a good design decision, can it? How can we be stuck with this conundrum? It's the FCC's fault.

You see, when the FCC tests are run, the head is required to be in the vicinity of the phone. But, the hand is not!! And the FCC's tests are not the only tests that must be passed by a candidate product. AT&T has their own requirements for devices put on their network, and antenna efficiency is one of them. I know because I have designed quad-band GSM antennas for the AT&T network. The AT&T test similarly does not require the hand to be on the phone.

So, naturally, the design evolved to meet requirements - and efficient transmission and reception while being held by a human hand are simply not design requirements!

OK, back to the iPhone 4. The antenna structure for the cell phone is still down at the bottom (I won't address the WiFi nor GPS antennas in this blog entry). The iPhone 4 has two symmetrical slots in the stainless frame. If you short these slots, or cover them with your hand, the antenna performance will suffer (see this video I found on YouTube). There is no way around this, it's a design compromise that is forced by the requirements of the FCC, AT&T, Apple's marketing department and Apple's industrial designers, to name a few.

One of the questions the intrepid reporter from PC Magazine asked me was, "Will putting the phone in a pocket and using a Bluetooth device help?" Good question. The answer is yes, to a point. The first generation iPhone clearly had a conductive surface below the antenna (I hesitate to call it a ground plane, because it it too small). So, putting it in your pocket with the screen toward your body and the antennas facing out while using your Bluetooth earpiece will work better than holding the phone with your hand. In fact, in my car my iPhone sits forward on the dashboard, under the winshield, screen down while I use my Jawbone. Works great. (However, if you put your iPhone in your left back pocket, and your earpiece in your right ear, you may have issues. This is a failing of the Bluetooth system in dealing with severe body losses at 2.4GHz, not the cellphone's problem.)

The iPhone 4, however, moved the antenna action from the back of the phone to the sides. This probably improves the isotropy of the radiation pattern, but only when the phone is suspended magically in air. Not too helpful. Putting this iPhone 4 in your pocket will likely couple more energy into your body (you bag of salt water, you) than did the first generation model. Yep, I predict it will be worse.

So, what's an iPhone lover to do? Well, I voted with my dollars. I ordered my iPhone 4 to replace my Original. I already know how to do the Vulcan Antenna Grip on the iPhone, and I am wearing out my current model.

And sometimes an antenna that's not great, but good enough, is good enough.

The Rick
06-25-2010, 10:30 AM
Posted this last night in a different thread, but here it is again...

:)

BWillie
06-25-2010, 10:38 AM
People that buy I-phones don't even care. They are so in such a trance Apple could butt f*ck their mother and they would think it was cool.

The Rick
06-25-2010, 10:38 AM
On New iPhone, a Mystery of Dropped Calls
By MIGUEL HELFT
Published: June 24, 2010

SAN FRANCISCO — For iPhone owners, it always comes back to the antenna.

Apple’s touch-screen smartphone has been a sensation since Day 1 three years ago, and many who own the device believe it to be almost perfect — if only it worked better as a phone.

So it is not surprising that as the first boxes of the new iPhone 4 landed in the hands of the earliest adopters late Wednesday, the antenna’s reception quickly became an Internet obsession. What surprised many of them: the precious little bars that signal network connections inexplicably disappeared when they cradled the phone in their hands a particular way. Sometimes, but not always, the cradling resulted in dropped calls.

In the hours before Apple weighed in on the problem, iPhone fans turned to one another on the Internet in a zealous exercise in crowd-sourcing for answers to the mystery.

They were all the more baffled because the iPhone 4 was designed to have better reception. A metal band that wraps around the edges of the device is supposed to pull in a stronger signal; software is supposed to choose the section of the signal with the least congestion.

A user calling himself FFArchitect appeared to be the first to report the phenomenon on MacRumors.com, a site for the Apple-obsessed. He said that touching the band in various places caused reception problems. His report, like many that followed, included a video demonstrating the problem.

Soon after, Gizmodo, a popular site for gadget fans, picked up on it, calling the phenomenon “weird.”

“When the guy holds the iPhone in his hands, touching the outside antenna band in two places, he drops reception,” Jesus Diaz, a writer for the blog, said. “Placing the phone down gets him 4 bars.”

From then on, report after report began to ricochet across technology Web sites, and Mr. Diaz posted updates as new stories from around the Web dropped into his in-box. “This is worrying,” Mr. Diaz wrote.

One commenter linked to an article from early this month about a Danish expert in radio antennas who predicted that touching the antenna would affect reception. Another update claimed to narrow down the problem to touching the lower left side of the phone.

The reader reports included suggestions for how to fix the problem — Update 19: use nail polish to insulate the antenna; Update 21: enclose the phone in a rubber case — and appeared to show some wisdom in this crowd. Late Thursday, an Apple spokesman, Steve Dowling, acknowledged that the issues experienced by users were real but he played down their importance.

“Gripping any phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance, depending on the placement of the antennas,” he said. “This is a fact of life for every wireless phone.”

Mr. Dowling declined to say whether Apple experienced the issue during testing of the phone and suggested that users not hold the phone in a way that covers both sides of a small black strip on the lower left side. Alternatively, he said, they could use one of many available cases.

Analysts and investors did not appear overly worried.

“Apple has not had one introduction that hasn’t had issues,” said Charles Wolf, an analyst with Needham & Company. “Sometimes these things get blown out of proportion.”

On Wall Street, shares of Apple slid a mere 0.8 percent, faring better than the broad Nasdaq index, which dropped 1.6 percent.

And given the long lines outside Apple stores in New York heat, Chicago rain and San Francisco fog, consumers appeared unconcerned by, or unaware of, the potential reception issues.

Even Brian Lam, Gizmodo’s editorial director, saw an upside to the iPhone 4, antenna problems and all. “We are paying attention to the antenna issue because it could be a big deal,” he said.

But Mr. Lam said that for years, he had not been able to use older iPhones to make calls from his home. That changed on Thursday, after he bought an iPhone 4. “I have made three hours of calls today,” he said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/25/technology/25apple.html

The Rick
06-25-2010, 10:39 AM
People that buy I-phones don't even care. They are so in such a trance Apple could butt f*ck their mother and they would think it was cool.

:rolleyes:

Taco John
06-25-2010, 11:14 AM
The Rick would *NOT* think that was cool.

vailpass
06-25-2010, 11:23 AM
Yeah... this is why the "OMG OMG must have new toy at 7am the first ****ing day, wait in line, twitter about my new purchase" consumers are idiots.... they're essentially the final beta testers for the product.

Exactly.

Sure-Oz
06-25-2010, 11:25 AM
Im getting a droid incredible

Sure-Oz
06-25-2010, 11:25 AM
People that buy I-phones don't even care. They are so in such a trance Apple could butt f*ck their mother and they would think it was cool.

a real apple or the apple company symbol?

Donger
06-25-2010, 12:35 PM
Holy sh*t. So this metal band is actually part of the antenna? And they didn't coat it with something to prevent conductivity?

LMAO

Apple: do you know what attenuation is?

HC_Chief
06-25-2010, 12:51 PM
Holy sh*t. So this metal band is actually part of the antenna? And they didn't coat it with something to prevent conductivity?

LMAO

Apple: do you know what attenuation is?

Ha! If they don't know what encapsulation is, my bet is they don't know what attenuation is either.

Saulbadguy
06-25-2010, 12:54 PM
I DON'T CARE!!! HONESTLY!

:doh!:

HC_Chief
06-25-2010, 12:58 PM
Im getting a droid incredible

wait 'til you see the Windows 7 phone. Seriously, it is #%&@ing amazing.

Sure-Oz
06-25-2010, 01:59 PM
wait 'til you see the Windows 7 phone. Seriously, it is #%&@ing amazing.

October release i hear?

irishjayhawk
06-25-2010, 02:02 PM
wait 'til you see the Windows 7 phone. Seriously, it is #%&@ing amazing.


Given their track record:

ROFL


But more power to them. I'd love to see Apple and Google with some more competition. Sadly, webOS didn't do it.

Donger
06-25-2010, 02:15 PM
Holy God....

Jobs' response: "Just avoid holding it in that way."

LMAO
LMAO
LMAO

DMAC
06-25-2010, 02:22 PM
Holy God....

Jobs' response: "Just avoid holding it in that way."

LMAO
LMAO
LMAOClassic.

bowener
06-25-2010, 02:22 PM
Holy God....

Jobs' response: "Just avoid holding it in that way."

LMAO
LMAO
LMAO

He's a putz. Probably designed it this way so that users would have to purchase a fucking $40 plastic cover as well.

The Rick
06-25-2010, 02:26 PM
Hey! When I cover my phone's display with my hand, the amount of screen viewable drops from 100% to maybe 5%. Design flaw?

:)

DMAC
06-25-2010, 02:34 PM
Hey! When I cover my phone's display with my hand, the amount of screen viewable drops from 100% to maybe 5%. Design flaw?

:):lame:

WAAAA waaaaa

Donger
06-25-2010, 03:06 PM
Ouch:

http://gizmodo.com/5572546/design-test-note-fragile-beauty

Silock
06-25-2010, 03:13 PM
Other cell phones, including Google phones, have the same issue:

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/24/other-mobile-phones-with-similar-signal-loss-issues/

Huffmeister
06-25-2010, 03:17 PM
Other cell phones, including Google phones, have the same issue:

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/24/other-mobile-phones-with-similar-signal-loss-issues/
Did the CEOs of those companies say "You're holding it wrong"?

Pestilence
06-25-2010, 03:18 PM
http://gizmodo.com/5571986/apple-support-says-yellow-tint-problem-is-residue-from-manufacturing?skyline=true&s=i

Pestilence
06-25-2010, 03:20 PM
Other cell phones, including Google phones, have the same issue:

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/24/other-mobile-phones-with-similar-signal-loss-issues/

Yet they only have a video of a Nokia 6230?

I've never seen this happen with any of my phones....no matter which way I'm holding them.

irishjayhawk
06-25-2010, 03:33 PM
Yet they only have a video of a Nokia 6230?

I've never seen this happen with any of my phones....no matter which way I'm holding them.

I have on just about every phone. It just happens to be a difference of 1-2 bars than 2-4 bars.

Pestilence
06-25-2010, 03:37 PM
I have on just about every phone. It just happens to be a difference of 1-2 bars than 2-4 bars.

What phones have you had it on?

Frazod
06-25-2010, 03:42 PM
I'll never understand people who have to rush right out and buy something brand new before the bugs are worked out. Fucking chumps. LMAO

irishjayhawk
06-25-2010, 03:43 PM
What phones have you had it on?

Crappy ones.

1 Sony Ericsson
2 Samsungs

Can't remember the model numbers at the moment. Leaving for work anyway.

Pestilence
06-25-2010, 03:49 PM
Crappy ones.

1 Sony Ericsson
2 Samsungs

Can't remember the model numbers at the moment. Leaving for work anyway.

So basically you've had these problems on crappy phones.....and iPhone 4?

I've never once had this happen on any "smart phone" that I've purchased.....or even that my family has purchased.

Fish
06-25-2010, 03:56 PM
I noticed the antenna issue on my old HTC Touch. And the Mogul I had before that, but it wasn't as considerable of a drop in reception.

Buck
06-25-2010, 04:11 PM
Who cares if other phones do it?

This is supposedly the fucking Thoroughbred of all Cell Phones right? It shouldn't be breaking or dropping signal so fucking easily.

I'm just laughing at all the fanboys who had to get it day one. This could turn out to be the next RROD as far as people making fun of it. I don't think a firmware update will fix anything.

cdirty
06-25-2010, 04:12 PM
but its more polished!

Bane
06-25-2010, 04:25 PM
I'll never understand people who have to rush right out and buy something brand new before the bugs are worked out. Fucking chumps. LMAO

Exactly.I know about 5 people that went out and got I Pads asap,and now all they do is bitch because it has no built in camera,no usb support etc... I actually liked the promo of the new I Phone but I always wait till G2 or later to purchase any Apple product.
Posted via Mobile Device

Sure-Oz
06-25-2010, 04:31 PM
but its more polished!

like a turd

BigMeatballDave
06-25-2010, 04:38 PM
People that buy I-phones don't even care. They are so in such a trance Apple could butt f*ck their mother and they would think it was cool.ROFL

irishjayhawk
06-25-2010, 11:32 PM
Who cares if other phones do it?

This is supposedly the ****ing Thoroughbred of all Cell Phones right? It shouldn't be breaking or dropping signal so ****ing easily.

I'm just laughing at all the fanboys who had to get it day one. This could turn out to be the next RROD as far as people making fun of it. I don't think a firmware update will fix anything.

But see that's the thing...

Only SOME people are noticing it. There's plenty of reviewers and other customers that are reporting much BETTER reception even with the Vulcan Death Grip hold.

This leads me to believe it's either a factory/build issue or a service issue - meaning in crappy ATT spots it is noticeable and in good ATT spots it isn't. Even Gizmodo's Lam was reporting he could make calls in his house where his 3GS couldn't.

Also, this is only an issue if you USE YOUR LEFT HAND to hold the phone.

irishjayhawk
06-25-2010, 11:33 PM
Exactly.I know about 5 people that went out and got I Pads asap,and now all they do is bitch because it has no built in camera,no usb support etc... I actually liked the promo of the new I Phone but I always wait till G2 or later to purchase any Apple product.
Posted via Mobile Device

:spock:

They bought stuff knowing it didn't come with it and then bitched about it?

That's them being dumb rather than being misled or getting faulty stuff.

88TG88
06-26-2010, 12:03 AM
Hey! When I cover my phone's display with my hand, the amount of screen viewable drops from 100% to maybe 5%. Design flaw?

:)

nice

Bane
06-26-2010, 01:17 AM
:spock:

They bought stuff knowing it didn't come with it and then bitched about it?

That's them being dumb rather than being misled or getting faulty stuff.

I wasn't suggesting they were misled .I'm just saying they went out and got them as soon as they hit the shelves so they'd have the newest "gadget" and now all the lil things they already knew about the devices are starting to bug them.

morphius
06-26-2010, 12:09 PM
But see that's the thing...

Only SOME people are noticing it. There's plenty of reviewers and other customers that are reporting much BETTER reception even with the Vulcan Death Grip hold.

This leads me to believe it's either a factory/build issue or a service issue - meaning in crappy ATT spots it is noticeable and in good ATT spots it isn't. Even Gizmodo's Lam was reporting he could make calls in his house where his 3GS couldn't.

Also, this is only an issue if you USE YOUR LEFT HAND to hold the phone.
No matter how many times it is said, saying that it is only an issue if you hold it with your left hand doesn't really make it sound any better.

morphius
06-26-2010, 12:11 PM
Exactly.I know about 5 people that went out and got I Pads asap,and now all they do is bitch because it has no built in camera,no usb support etc... I actually liked the promo of the new I Phone but I always wait till G2 or later to purchase any Apple product.
Posted via Mobile Device
Have you started calling it the ipad to their faces to rub it in :D

Baby Lee
06-26-2010, 12:26 PM
Duh

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/06/500x_iphone4face_01.jpg

HC_Chief
06-26-2010, 01:09 PM
Given their track record:

ROFL


But more power to them. I'd love to see Apple and Google with some more competition. Sadly, webOS didn't do it.

I hear you. WM 6.x was crap, especially when stacked up against all the other options. Not unlike Visturd.

I think the Win 7 phone will do exactly what Windows 7 did: "reboot" the M$ product line to a much better user experience.

Until it comes out, I'm sticking with my iPhone 3G. This Apple hardware reset is annoying an expensive. I'm not one of those fanbois who'll line up to buy anything Apple, like so many people are these days.

I'm just pissed I don't own much Apple stock... man, to have bought in before the iPhone.... :facepalm:

Buck
06-26-2010, 01:13 PM
But see that's the thing...

Only SOME people are noticing it. There's plenty of reviewers and other customers that are reporting much BETTER reception even with the Vulcan Death Grip hold.

This leads me to believe it's either a factory/build issue or a service issue - meaning in crappy ATT spots it is noticeable and in good ATT spots it isn't. Even Gizmodo's Lam was reporting he could make calls in his house where his 3GS couldn't.

Also, this is only an issue if you USE YOUR LEFT HAND to hold the phone.

Hey, if it makes you happy, then enjoy it.

All I'm saying for a company that has the reputation of making the best phones, and then to come out with the next generation that is supposed to step it up a notch, they sure left in quite a flaw.

HC_Chief
06-26-2010, 01:17 PM
Hey, if it makes you happy, then enjoy it.

All I'm saying for a company that has the reputation of making the best phones, and then to come out with the next generation that is supposed to step it up a notch, they sure left in quite a flaw.

But it only affects 6-10% of the population, so Jobs and I say "F@^& the left-handed! Learn to hold the phone correctly. Retards." :D

SLAG
06-26-2010, 01:27 PM
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Mr. Flopnuts
06-26-2010, 02:18 PM
LMAO It always cracks me up listening to people rationalize the dick in their ass.

Bearcat
06-26-2010, 05:10 PM
Also, this is only an issue if you USE YOUR LEFT HAND to hold the phone.

LMAO

Patient: My back hurts when I do this...

Doctor: Well, don't do that.

Patient: Oh... okay!

notorious
06-26-2010, 05:28 PM
LMAO It always cracks me up listening to people rationalize the dick in their ass.

This.



Human defense mechanisms are fascinating.

Anyong Bluth
06-26-2010, 05:56 PM
I'd say this is a serious problem!

The first significant redesign of the iphone & there's a handful of major design flaws. Sadly, because I think this is the first design for the iphone that in my opinion is beautiful! It's really a strikingly gorgeous industrial design. No, I don't think think the metal band as the antenna is really all that it's touted as, because when the rest of the phone is glass there should already be very little impeding the signal. And, really I'd say this is sadly a solution on Apple's part for a problem that isn't really of their doing- that would be AT&T's. Whether it's too much congestion & lack of having enough towers properly placed or whatever, it's neither here nor there because they have failed even after numerous years of cash infusion thanks to the iphone to aggressively improve their network to properly handle these phones that are so much more data intensive. When New York & San Fran (Apple's backyard mind you) have an average call drop rate of 33%, then I'd say that's more than absurd & hard to justify or really come to at&t's defense even though they've said they've been pouring tons of $$$ into improving their network.

Apple, on the other hand, should feel a bit embarrassed at the flaws of this new design. They are heralded by most for their superior design & lack of such techical issues.

You now have new glass they claimed was stronger than plastic by 30 times & equal to sapphire- which in comparisons garners a strength rating of 9 & by comparison diamonds are rated as a 10. Yet, you have numerous reports of cracked screens & back covers - even from falls as little as a foot. While the glass seems to have been touted for it's strength it seems that that means it's also very rigid & people have noted that this lack of give can mean even minor drops can cause severe fracturing if it lands in certain directions- like on the corners. Plus you now have 2x's the amount of surface glass.

Dropping reception because you hold it with your left hand. Apple's response is simply: don't hold it that way or put a cover on it. That's not really addressing the fact that the design is flawed. I don't want a car that won't brake if my wheels are pointed left, and I also don't want them to tell me that the solution is to only make right turns or try sticking my foot out like I'm Fred Flintstone to try to slow down the car.

Yellow dots on the screen. Apple claims that this is simply an issue because the glue they use to attach the guts & screen to the front panel of glass hasn't had time to fully dry & that after a few days of use it will go away. The point being is they are pushing units out of production so fast to meet demand. Are they not properly testing these units once they are assembled before shipping? How long does it take to the glue to fully dry? I can't imagine these first batches were all just produced in the last few days, and if not how long does it takes the adhesive they're using to properly dry!? Most compounds I know of & that I would think they decided to use for their needs would take a few days at the most unless it isn't properly implemented.

I have a feeling their going to have to makes a few changes! I hope they can fix the problems & maintain the design because I think it's beautiful to the eye but a blunder in execution!

Valiant
06-26-2010, 06:02 PM
He's a putz. Probably designed it this way so that users would have to purchase a ****ing $40 plastic cover as well.

Actually I read somewhere that he actually said there is no problem with it if you have a cover on your phone..

Don't know if that is true though..

Dave Lane
06-26-2010, 06:21 PM
That's true and apple has announced 4.01 software that will be available next week to correct this.

JD10367
06-26-2010, 07:12 PM
In general: anyone who lines up for the first issue of a product is kinda dumb. Not only are the first ones hard to get, and overpriced by scalpers, they also have technological issues. Whether you're talking iPhone or a video game or even software... wait a while until they work the bugs out and improve things.

In specific, regarding Apple: they built their reputation on being cool, easy to use, and had great customer service. Now? They're still cool, but other companies are catching up; their stuff is only slightly easier to use, and has pretty much plenty of glitches, hitches, and errors (just like MS and Windows stuff); and their customer service has a shiny impressive face on it but ultimately fails to deliver, just like most companies.

Signed, "the guy with the iPod Touch that still can't play songs without large chuinks of dead air or display pictures that aren't chopped up".

notorious
06-26-2010, 09:33 PM
In general: anyone who lines up for the first issue of a product is kinda dumb.



This is true with anything. Cars, computers, op. systems.


Hell, it's even true with women.

The Rick
06-26-2010, 09:48 PM
This is true with anything. Cars, computers, op. systems.


Hell, it's even true with women.
I'd say it's only dumb if you get it, then have problems with it and/or complain about it.

As for me, I've not had any of the signal issues. I'm unable to duplicate the issue. I like the phone and am enjoying it.

morphius
06-26-2010, 09:59 PM
I'd say it's only dumb if you get it, then have problems with it and/or complain about it.

As for me, I've not had any of the signal issues. I'm unable to duplicate the issue. I like the phone and am enjoying it.
Wrong. Anyone willing to stand in line for something on the first day is also going to be the biggest supporter of said device because they would look silly to anyone from the outside if they did start complaining. That being said, if people who waited are having an issue big enough to complain about, it most likely is a pretty big deal...

The Rick
06-26-2010, 10:08 PM
Wrong. Anyone willing to stand in line for something on the first day is also going to be the biggest supporter of said device because they would look silly to anyone from the outside if they did start complaining. That being said, if people who waited are having an issue big enough to complain about, it most likely is a pretty big deal...
So why again am I dumb?

morphius
06-26-2010, 10:22 PM
So why again am I dumb?
Actually, I wouldn't use the word dumb. But waiting in line for a device that will be on sale for a year, with plenty being made... Well, I'm not sure what word I would use, but I know it generally involves pointing and laughing.

JD10367
06-26-2010, 10:47 PM
This is true with anything. Cars, computers, op. systems.


Hell, it's even true with women.

I don't know if I'd go THAT far. Sorta nice to know, like James T. Kirk, you're going where no man has gone before. Or did you mean the "lining up" part? Because, even in that scenario, if there's a line for her, I think you'd rather be first than at the back of the line. :D

irishjayhawk
06-26-2010, 11:09 PM
I'm wondering if we'll see a massive turn in sentiment if, say, the software update fixes it or the real cause is identified.

I doubt it.

notorious
06-27-2010, 10:48 AM
I don't know if I'd go THAT far. Sorta nice to know, like James T. Kirk, you're going where no man has gone before. Or did you mean the "lining up" part? Because, even in that scenario, if there's a line for her, I think you'd rather be first than at the back of the line. :D

JFC

ROFL

morphius
06-27-2010, 10:57 AM
I'm wondering if we'll see a massive turn in sentiment if, say, the software update fixes it or the real cause is identified.

I doubt it.
Well, not likely when you show your ass telling your customers to buy an add on to fix your problem or to hold the phone different. He could just say we are working on a solution, handed out a few cases to those who came in with the issue until the fix was in place and could have at least saved some face. And what will you do if the fix actually brings the reception down to the other Apple models?

tk13
06-27-2010, 11:05 AM
They definitely shouldn't have said to hold it differently. The damage is kind of done in that regard. Especially with the way they've kinda been strutting around about how great they are. Or as Jobs would say, "If you need a bumper case, they blew it."

Bane
06-27-2010, 11:11 AM
Have you started calling it the iTouch Senior Citizen Edition to their faces to rub it in :D

Nice.ROFL

Huffmeister
06-27-2010, 11:40 AM
I'm wondering if we'll see a massive turn in sentiment if, say, the software update fixes it or the real cause is identified.

I doubt it.

Why would there be? The cat is already out of the bag. Will the assinine responses from Jobs and Apple fan boys ("Just get a case" and "You're holding it wrong") be corrected with a software patch?

I'd have a lot more respect for Apple if they'd have said "Oops, we f'ed up. We'll fix it ASAP."

morphius
06-27-2010, 12:24 PM
Nice.ROFL
I'm hoping that my nickname sticks, so I need people to start using it, lol.

Plus it is fitting, it is really just an itouch with a bigger display and bigger buttons so that it is easier for the elderly to use. Plus doesn't have a camera or real usb support, because too many extra features would be difficult for them to use and would confuse them.

Fruit Ninja
06-27-2010, 12:28 PM
lol, i wouldnt stand in line for anything, i can wait a day or 2 and just walk up in there and get it. lol

Dave Lane
06-27-2010, 12:43 PM
Try a month or two. Backorders are through the roof. The estimate I heard was almost 10 million backorders.

WilliamTheIrish
06-27-2010, 12:56 PM
Two months? How will I see the Halo World Championship from Mali if I have to wait two months for my phone? / Angst ridden Apple enthusiast TM

irishjayhawk
06-27-2010, 12:59 PM
Well, not likely when you show your ass telling your customers to buy an add on to fix your problem or to hold the phone different. He could just say we are working on a solution, handed out a few cases to those who came in with the issue until the fix was in place and could have at least saved some face. And what will you do if the fix actually brings the reception down to the other Apple models?

Definitely agree with respect to Jobs' reply. That's why he's a product guy not a PR guy (though he does don the PR hat at events, but when he's talking about HIS product).

Why would there be? The cat is already out of the bag. Will the assinine responses from Jobs and Apple fan boys ("Just get a case" and "You're holding it wrong") be corrected with a software patch?

I'd have a lot more respect for Apple if they'd have said "Oops, we f'ed up. We'll fix it ASAP."

To both of you, I guess I should have clarified. Would you see a turn in sentiment from the perspective that it's a "design flaw" which a software glitch would negate.

I still think people would suggest it wasn't designed properly when the facts suggest the antenna is massively better than 3GS.


Further, I doubt many people will legitimately realize it happens with just about every phone. It's just not something people noticed because they've been attributing it to crappy service or a crappy phone.

irishjayhawk
06-27-2010, 01:00 PM
Two months? How will I see the Halo World Championship from Mali if I have to wait two months for my phone? / Angst ridden Apple enthusiast TM

What's worse, the fanboy/enthusiast or the fanboy/enthusiast-hater?

Answer: both because they're two sides of the same coin.

WilliamTheIrish
06-27-2010, 01:03 PM
What's worse, the fanboy/enthusiast or the fanboy/enthusiast-hater?

Answer: both because they're two sides of the same coin.

Definitely the fanboi.

morphius
06-27-2010, 01:35 PM
Further, I doubt many people will legitimately realize it happens with just about every phone. It's just not something people noticed because they've been attributing it to crappy service or a crappy phone.

I'm more than happy to acknowledge that it happens with most every phone, but the issues do get noticed and the people talk about them. Most people know that blackberry's have issues with trackballs for instance.

Bob Dole
06-27-2010, 01:52 PM
Have you started calling it the iTouch Senior Citizen Edition to their faces to rub it in :D

Hell, Bob Dole is going to make a iPod Touch Senior Citizen Edition label for the back of his.

Cave Johnson
06-28-2010, 01:19 PM
Here's the fix to your "lemon", TJ.

http://www.fastcompany.com/1663768/iphone-4-antenna-fix

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-28-2010, 02:23 PM
Apple Fanbois:

http://www.nigelhaversalliance.com/pics/infominister.jpeg

Pestilence
06-28-2010, 02:26 PM
Here's the fix to your "lemon", TJ.

http://www.fastcompany.com/1663768/iphone-4-antenna-fix

You do realize that there shouldn't have to be a fix for this issue. It should never have happened in the first place.

OnTheWarpath58
06-28-2010, 02:36 PM
You do realize that there shouldn't have to be a fix for this issue. It should never have happened in the first place.

Agreed.

However, I'm not sure how big of a deal this really is.

Granted, it's a small sample size, but I know 5 people that have one, and none of them have experienced this issue. Their reception has improved dramatically.

What Apple should do, is have customers that are affected bring the phone back to the store, and if they can replicate the issue, the customer receives a free case.

PITA? Sure. But that's what you get for basically being a beta tester.

Cave Johnson
06-28-2010, 02:38 PM
The Apple hate is strong in this thread. To Hamas' point, no one buys an iPhone for the call quality.

Contrary to Jobs' initial position, looks like it may be a software issue. And, according to an industry analyst, the worst case (no pun intended) scenario is free bumpers for everyone.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/06/25/death_grip_hysteria_may_end_monday_with_ios_4_01.html

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/06/25/worst_case_in_iphone_reception_issue_apple_gives_away_bumpers.html

Guru
06-28-2010, 02:43 PM
Well, not likely when you show your ass telling your customers to buy an add on to fix your problem or to hold the phone different. He could just say we are working on a solution, handed out a few cases to those who came in with the issue until the fix was in place and could have at least saved some face. And what will you do if the fix actually brings the reception down to the other Apple models?


Gotta love that their fix involves purchasing another product.

Saulbadguy
06-28-2010, 03:48 PM
Apple Fanbois:

http://www.nigelhaversalliance.com/pics/infominister.jpeg

Well, it's the truth. At this point, Apple could release an iTurd, and it would outsell the competition due to guys like Pittsie and The Rick lining up to buy it.

Saulbadguy
06-28-2010, 03:52 PM
Agreed.

However, I'm not sure how big of a deal this really is.

Granted, it's a small sample size, but I know 5 people that have one, and none of them have experienced this issue. Their reception has improved dramatically.

What Apple should do, is have customers that are affected bring the phone back to the store, and if they can replicate the issue, the customer receives a free case.

PITA? Sure. But that's what you get for basically being a beta tester.

I don't agree with the "beta tester" comment. When I purchase electronics from a company like Apple, Microsoft, Sony, etc...I expect a certain level of quality. I also expect thorough quality assurance to be implemented.

When problems like this slip through the cracks, it's just plain negligence on Apple's part, it has nothing to do with expecting a piece of technology to work on day 1.

Cave Johnson
06-28-2010, 04:47 PM
Well, it's the truth. At this point, Apple could release an iTurd, and it would outsell the competition due to guys like Pittsie and The Rick lining up to buy it.

WTF ever, dude. It's the only Apple product I own, and that's only because it, for my purposes, is clearly better than the competition.

There's a reason why they engender so much loyalty, and it's not 100% reliability. My last 2 iPods broke (1 under warranty) and the power button on my 3G stopped working a few months ago (for which I should get a $200 check to replace a $4 part).

I say this as I just dl'd the new iTunes for the 3rd time and had to do 2 hard deletes of all Apple software.

Saulbadguy
06-28-2010, 06:02 PM
WTF ever, dude. It's the only Apple product I own, and that's only because it, for my purposes, is clearly better than the competition.

There's a reason why they engender so much loyalty, and it's not 100% reliability. My last 2 iPods broke (1 under warranty) and the power button on my 3G stopped working a few months ago (for which I should get a $200 check to replace a $4 part).

I say this as I just dl'd the new iTunes for the 3rd time and had to do 2 hard deletes of all Apple software.

You're also a huge 360 fanboy. I see a pattern.

Donger
06-28-2010, 06:15 PM
The Apple hate is strong in this thread. To Hamas' point, no one buys an iPhone for the call quality.

Contrary to Jobs' initial position, looks like it may be a software issue. And, according to an industry analyst, the worst case (no pun intended) scenario is free bumpers for everyone.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/06/25/death_grip_hysteria_may_end_monday_with_ios_4_01.html

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/06/25/worst_case_in_iphone_reception_issue_apple_gives_away_bumpers.html

How on Earth is a software patch going to help a physical design flaw? RF is RF.

Cave Johnson
06-28-2010, 06:27 PM
You're also a huge 360 fanboy. I see a pattern.

You're a cat lover, so of course you're anti-Apple, pro-Sony/Android, etc. See how this non sequitur thing works.

The new ones have a matte finish. I like it better - doesn't show dust and cat hair as much.

Saulbadguy
06-28-2010, 08:36 PM
You're a cat lover, so of course you're anti-Apple, pro-Sony/Android, etc. See how this non sequitur thing works.

I own an iPhone 4, a PS3, and an XBox 360. Next.

Reaper16
06-28-2010, 09:31 PM
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irishjayhawk
06-28-2010, 09:38 PM
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ROFL

Saulbadguy
06-28-2010, 09:38 PM
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ROFL

irishjayhawk
06-28-2010, 09:39 PM
How on Earth is a software patch going to help a physical design flaw? RF is RF.

And there in lies the answer to my question, morphius. The answer is a resounding "no".

Mr. Flopnuts
06-28-2010, 09:43 PM
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LMAO

Great Expectations
06-28-2010, 11:14 PM
My reception is fantastic, but I have to do a hard reset at least once a day.

Cave Johnson
06-29-2010, 09:35 AM
I own an iPhone 4, a PS3, and an XBox 360. Next.

So you got your iPhone last week, and I'm the bigger fanboy? Gotcha.

BWillie
06-29-2010, 11:29 AM
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This thing has went viral. Last night when I watched it it had 88,000 views. Now it is on it's way to 300,000 easy.

irishjayhawk
06-29-2010, 03:25 PM
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Pestilence
06-29-2010, 04:36 PM
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This one just isn't as funny as the other one.

BWillie
06-29-2010, 05:31 PM
This one just isn't as funny as the other one.

That's because it's alot easier to mock IPhone fanboys. Much, much easier.

Pestilence
06-29-2010, 05:35 PM
That's because it's alot easier to mock IPhone fanboys. Much, much easier.

It just wasn't as funny......and I don't have either phone....so I personally don't give a shit.

irishjayhawk
06-29-2010, 08:11 PM
This one just isn't as funny as the other one.

I agree.

Cave Johnson
06-30-2010, 09:44 AM
Overclocking? Does the Evo think it's a gaming rig?