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chris
06-26-2010, 09:01 AM
Good article.

Free agency is a fool's game. A form of Russian roulette.

But I know that there are the Planet Experts that will disagree with Bob. State that with the Chief's low payroll, they MUST spend money on free agency.


http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/why-it%E2%80%99s-buyer-beware-%E2%80%A6-weekend-cup-o%E2%80%99chiefs.html#more-13907


Why It’s Buyer Beware … Weekend Cup O’Chiefs
June 25, 2010 - Bob Gretz |

Every year the enthusiasm level of NFL fans goes up around the first of March. For the last decade or so, that’s when the free agency market has gotten started each off-season.

Fans of 32 teams hope their management opens up the franchise’s vault and throws millions of dollars at the biggest and best names on the free agent list. Those clubs that sign the big names get a lot of attention and are thought to be the league’s movers and shakers. Those clubs sitting on the sidelines when those big, early contracts get done are considered slow on the trigger, cheap or football idiots.

Oh, how many times I’ve heard from Chiefs fans unhappy that the cream of the crop among free agents never stepped foot in Kansas City. Lamar Hunt, Carl Peterson, Dick Vermeil, Herm Edwards, Scott Pioli, Todd Haley and Clark Hunt were all suspect.

At various points they allowed Julian Peterson to leave San Francisco and sign with Seattle (2006) on a seven-year, $54 million deal. Or, they didn’t sign Adalius Thomas (2007) when he left Baltimore and got a free agent contract from New England worth $35 million over five years. Plenty thought they should have invested the four-year, $32 million deal that the New York Jets gave Alan Faneca when he left Pittsburgh (2008).

There has always been one caveat with free agency, actually it’s caveat emptor, Latin for buyer beware. The Chiefs have become part of the majority of NFL teams that have learned that big free agency money should go to keeping their own players, rather than importing high priced talent from elsewhere.

But some NFL teams still ignore buyer beware. Just ask Daniel Snyder and his silent ownership partners with the Washington Redskins.

Last season, the No. 1 free agent on the NFL market was defensive lineman Albert Haynesworth (above) of the Tennessee Titans. Within 24 hours of the start of free agency, the Redskins and Haynesworth agreed on a seven-year, $100 million contract with $41 million in guaranteed dollars. Slice away all the contract mumbo jumbo and it really was a four-year deal for $48.2 million and another $15 million available through incentives.

It was the biggest contract ever signed by a defensive player in the history of the NFL.

And the biggest defensive contract in NFL history went to the man who may be one the biggest a**holes in league history. Why Snyder and the people in charge of his football operation at the time (read Vinny Cerrato) were willing to get into a football marriage with Haynesworth will go down as the classic example of the folly of free agency.

This week, Haynesworth decided to issue a statement through his agent saying he would report to Redskins training camp at the end of July. “Despite my current differences with the Redskins, I have always planned to attend training camp and honor my contract,” Haynesworth’s statement read. “As I have previously said, I am continuing to prepare for the season individually and will report on time, in shape and ready to play football. Any issues I have with the club I will discuss privately and therefore do not plan to make any further public comments about this matter.”

Despite the big contract and despite a $21 million bonus he was paid in early April, Haynesworth is unhappy because of the Redskins change in defense from the 4-3 to the 3-4, where they want him to play nose tackle on early downs. He attended just one day of Washington’s off-season strength and conditioning program, and did not take part in any of the OTA practices or the team’s mandatory mini-camp. That cost him $10,000 in fines.

Last year, Haynesworth was part of a team that went 4-12 on the season and got the GM and head coach fired. In that time, he did a lot to alienate some of his teammates.

“We know Albert’s going to do what he wants to do,” Redskins CB DeAngelo Hall said. “Whether it’s going to benefit him, benefit the team, or if it’s a stupid idea or a good idea, he’s going to do what he’s going to do. It’s kind of hard to change his mind.”

It’s not like Haynesworth signed the big money deal and suddenly became a jerk. He was of questionable character when he played for the Titans. Who can forget his stomping on the face of Dallas center Andre Gurode when the latter’s helmet came off during a 2006 game. Not familiar with the moment; here’s the clip. That got him an unprecedented five-game suspension from the league.

But right now, this guy has turned his life into a soap opera even beyond his problems with the Redskins. There have been four court filings against him in 2010:

* The change in his divorce decree with ex-wife Stephanie; when they finalized their marital separation, she didn’t get any alimony or a payoff. She’s looking to change that. “He thinks he’s above everything,” his ex-wife said this week.”He feels like he’s entitled. He’s narcissistic. It’s very frustrating to go to someone constantly and ask them repetitively to do the things they’re already supposed to be doing.”
* A Tennessee bank filed suit against Haynesworth for defaulting on a $2.38 million loan. Clayton Bank & Trust said in their filings that he stopped making payments.
* In New York, stripper Silvia Mena filed suit in a Brooklyn court against Haynesworth. She says he impregnated her, promised to take care of her and the child and then reneged on all of his promises.
* Corey Edmonson filed a civil lawsuit against Haynesworth over an auto accident. Edmonson said in his filing that the player was reckless driving his Ferrari and caused a wreck that left him permanently disabled. He wants $7.5 million in compensatory damages and more.

All of this is what the Redskins got when they signed Haynesworth. From this point forward, Snyder needs to have caveat emptor stitched into every piece of clothing that he owns. The rest of the league will go to school on this debacle in Washington. It will reaffirm the current feeling around the league that the big money deals simply aren’t worth the high costs, making them the biggest gambles in player acquisition.

There have been many outstanding free agent signings over the years – DL Reggie White in Green Bay, CB Deion Sanders in San Francisco and Dallas, RB Marcus Allen and RB Priest Holmes with the Chiefs, QB Drew Brees with New Orleans. We already know that Washington signing Albert Haynesworth will not fall in that group; whether it goes down as the greatest free agency disaster in NFL history remains to be seen.

There’s an old saying among general managers in all sports that “sometimes the best trades are the ones you don’t make.” The same can be said for free agent signings – the trade of big money for a football player of questionable character is a lose-lose situation.

Remember that the next time the Chiefs watch as the No. 1 free agent signs with another team for nine figures.

Caveat emptor.

the Talking Can
06-26-2010, 10:10 AM
talk about staw men


haynesworth's contract was retarded, and has absolutely nothing to do with the Chiefs having the payroll of a WAC football team....

Mr. Laz
06-26-2010, 10:21 AM
yea ... so every team should be running with a payroll based on the rookie salary pool.

who needs a salary cap when spending money doesn't matter

why should the colts worry about keeping payton Manning when he will just be a free agency bust.

milkman
06-26-2010, 10:24 AM
Yeah, Laz, that's exactly what Gretz is saying.

TC has it right though, it is a strawman argument.

chiefzilla1501
06-26-2010, 10:39 AM
yea ... so every team should be running with a payroll based on the rookie salary pool.

who needs a salary cap when spending money doesn't matter

why should the colts worry about keeping payton Manning when he will just be a free agency bust.

I would counter that with this.

I don't think there's any team that would ever be stupid enough to let Peyton Manning hit the free market. Oh wait, there is... the Chiefs and Jared Allen.

But the point being, the majority of teams protect their best players. That's especially true at QB. When a team is willing to part ways with him, you have to immediately ask the question of "why didn't the team protect him?" Especially true the past few years, where the cap hasn't been nearly as crippling on a team as it was a few years back. You haven't seen nearly as many marquee free agent moves made the past few years.

So Peyton isn't an appropriate example.

chiefzilla1501
06-26-2010, 10:41 AM
I would counter that with this.

I don't think there's any team that would ever be stupid enough to let Peyton Manning hit the free market. Oh wait, there is... the Chiefs and Jared Allen.

But the point being, the majority of teams protect their best players. That's especially true at QB. When a team is willing to part ways with him, you have to immediately ask the question of "why didn't the team protect him?" Especially true the past few years, where the cap hasn't been nearly as crippling on a team as it was a few years back. You haven't seen nearly as many marquee free agent moves made the past few years.

So Peyton isn't an appropriate example.

To that end, that's why Guard became such a ridiculously high paid position the last few years. Because it was one of the only positions where teams weren't really trying to protect them, even great players like Steve Hutchinson.

talastan
06-26-2010, 10:43 AM
Free agency is IMO no more a risk than that of the draft. Heck it is probably even less of a risk with veterans because most of the time you at least have a sense of what you're getting out of the player based on actual NFL playing time. Whereas the draft, sure they could've dominated in college (ie:JaFatass), but you don't know exactly how that will translate to the pros. Free agency was what brought this team its last playoff win, so by this article Gretz would say Joe Montana, Marcus Allen, etc. shouldn't have been picked up.

milkman
06-26-2010, 10:46 AM
Joe Montana wasn't a free agent.

chiefzilla1501
06-26-2010, 10:47 AM
Free agency is IMO no more a risk than that of the draft. Heck it is probably even less of a risk with veterans because most of the time you at least have a sense of what you're getting out of the player based on actual NFL playing time. Whereas the draft, sure they could've dominated in college (ie:JaFatass), but you don't know exactly how that will translate to the pros. Free agency was what brought this team its last playoff win, so by this article Gretz would say Joe Montana, Marcus Allen, etc. shouldn't have been picked up.

But again, in free agency, you dont' get the cream of the crop. You typically get the players that teams weren't willing to protect. Peyton Manning was never, ever even remotely close to ever becoming a free agent. Marcus Allen came from an entirely different kind of free agency era and Montana came w/questions about his arm. The draft has a higher risk but a million times more upside.

Mr. Laz
06-26-2010, 10:50 AM
I would counter that with this.

I don't think there's any team that would ever be stupid enough to let Peyton Manning hit the free market. Oh wait, there is... the Chiefs and Jared Allen.

But the point being, the majority of teams protect their best players. That's especially true at QB. When a team is willing to part ways with him, you have to immediately ask the question of "why didn't the team protect him?" Especially true the past few years, where the cap hasn't been nearly as crippling on a team as it was a few years back. You haven't seen nearly as many marquee free agent moves made the past few years.

So Peyton isn't an appropriate example.
i realize that, i was just using hyperbole to make a point

it's not that free agents are inherently bad, it's just like everything else.

player evaluation,scheme evaluation

TEX
06-26-2010, 10:56 AM
I'd like the Chiefs to land a TOP TIER FA one of these years instead of hearing about how they mostly never pan out. They just gotta do thier homework. Haynesworth is a piece of shit. Anyone in thier right mind could have seen how this was gonna turn out for the Skins.

Mojo Jojo
06-26-2010, 10:57 AM
Free agency is IMO no more a risk than that of the draft. Heck it is probably even less of a risk with veterans because most of the time you at least have a sense of what you're getting out of the player based on actual NFL playing time. Whereas the draft, sure they could've dominated in college (ie:JaFatass), but you don't know exactly how that will translate to the pros. Free agency was what brought this team its last playoff win, so by this article Gretz would say Joe Montana, Marcus Allen, etc. shouldn't have been picked up.

With a draft pick a team has exclusive rights...with a free agent teams get into bidding wars over a player another team didn't want. That usually leads to over paying for a guy who was cut from another team.
FYI...Joe Montana was a trade along with David Whitmore; not a free agent.

chiefzilla1501
06-26-2010, 11:07 AM
i realize that, i was just using hyperbole to make a point

it's not that free agents are inherently bad, it's just like everything else.

player evaluation,scheme evaluation

If the Chiefs approach this thing by building through the draft and adding stud free agents to fill in the missing gaps once they're almost there, I would be more than happy with that approach. I don't think a lot of these veterans would do a lot for us today. Though, I think 1 or 2 were necessary just to make these young guys confident that they can actually win some games and see progress.

Where we've gone wrong was that we did such a lousy job in 2009 and of course, we decided to build through a QB who was let go for peanuts instead of trying to groom our own. So I agree with the philosophy when it's done right. I do think 2010 has been a step in the right direction. I'm hoping, at least.

chiefzilla1501
06-26-2010, 11:09 AM
With a draft pick a team has exclusive rights...with a free agent teams get into bidding wars over a player another team didn't want. That usually leads to over paying for a guy who was cut from another team.
FYI...Joe Montana was a trade along with David Whitmore; not a free agent.

This.

And Montana, like Brees, came with a lot of health concerns. Brees is a pretty classic example--elite QB who only hit the open market because the Chargers weren't 100% sure about how strong his arm was after surgery. But for every Brees, there are a million Mike Browns and Kendrell Bells who are damaged goods.

Sweet Daddy Hate
06-26-2010, 11:54 AM
Nothing but nice guys, damnit! The "Right Fifty-Threeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"......................

Halfcan
06-26-2010, 03:07 PM
Gretz has lost touch with reality-yes haynesworth sucked, but that does not mean EVERY Free agent sucks.

BossChief
06-26-2010, 05:54 PM
Gretz has lost touch with reality-yes haynesworth sucked, but that does not mean EVERY Free agent sucks.

I bet not even 25% of free agents ever play to the level of their contract.

salame
06-26-2010, 05:59 PM
I bet not even 25% of free agents ever play to the level of their contract.

IDK but Faneca did fine and I'm not sure why he was part of gretz's argument
when faneca was a FA we really needed some O-line help

BossChief
06-26-2010, 06:07 PM
IDK but Faneca did fine and I'm not sure why he was part of gretz's argument
when faneca was a FA we really needed some O-line help

They already dumped him after only two years of a 4 year deal. He played well, but giving a guard 8 mill per season is crazy.

I wonder what percentage of free agent contracts are played out till the end of the deal? I bet its lower than most think.

KCinNY
06-26-2010, 08:36 PM
C'mon now...the Chester McGlockton signing worked out really well, didn't it?

Halfcan
06-26-2010, 08:55 PM
They already dumped him after only two years of a 4 year deal. He played well, but giving a guard 8 mill per season is crazy.

I wonder what percentage of free agent contracts are played out till the end of the deal? I bet its lower than most think.

well if you are going to "build" through the draft-you need to evaluate talent- the Cheaps cant do that-we have one of the worst draft records in the nfl.

milkman
06-26-2010, 09:10 PM
well if you are going to "build" through the draft-you need to evaluate talent- the Cheaps cant do that-we have one of the worst draft records in the nfl.

While last year's draft sucked ass, and I have concerns about this year's draft, to suggest the Chiefs draft history has anything to do with this team moving forward is a fucking joke.

Different people all throughout the organization making the evaluations and decisions.

Time will tell, but until then just shut the fuck up.

mcaj22
06-26-2010, 09:13 PM
* In New York, stripper Silvia Mena filed suit in a Brooklyn court against Haynesworth. She says he impregnated her, promised to take care of her and the child and then reneged on all of his promises.
* Corey Edmonson filed a civil lawsuit against Haynesworth over an auto accident. Edmonson said in his filing that the player was reckless driving his Ferrari and caused a wreck that left him permanently disabled. He wants $7.5 million in compensatory damages and more.


LOL WHAT? for anyone else these would be life altering events, but for Albert Haynesworth it's like water under the bridge.

Halfcan
06-26-2010, 09:23 PM
While last year's draft sucked ass, and I have concerns about this year's draft, to suggest the Chiefs draft history has anything to do with this team moving forward is a ****ing joke.

Different people all throughout the organization making the evaluations and decisions.

Time will tell, but until then just shut the **** up.

well when the team publically states they are going to build through the draft-and then whiff at it-I think it has everything to do with the team moving forward-so why dont you sht the fug up :cuss::cuss::cuss:

milkman
06-26-2010, 09:27 PM
well when the team publically states they are going to build through the draft-and then whiff at it-I think it has everything to do with the team moving forward-so why dont you sht the fug up :cuss::cuss::cuss:

The team publicly stated they were going to build through the draft under Herman fucking Edwards and Carl, and they didn't whiff at it.

Their draft became irrelevent when this regime took over, so it has nothing to do with this team moving forward now, dumbass.

milkman
06-26-2010, 09:31 PM
The team publicly stated they were going to build through the draft under Herman ****ing Edwards and Carl, and they didn't whiff at it.

Their draft became irrelevent when this regime took over, so it has nothing to do with this team moving forward now, dumbass.

An the fact is, some of those players, like Dorsey, Flowers and Charles are a part of the nucleus of this team moving forward.

The fact that Dorsey is actually playing well when he isn't ideally suited the position he's playing speaks to just how good that pick was.

Halfcan
06-26-2010, 09:38 PM
While last year's draft sucked ass, and I have concerns about this year's draft, to suggest the Chiefs draft history has anything to do with this team moving forward is a ****ing joke.

Different people all throughout the organization making the evaluations and decisions.

Time will tell, but until then just shut the **** up.

you are contradicting yourself

Mojo Jojo
06-26-2010, 09:41 PM
I think it is funny that so many posters here are wanting to spend another persons money because of something they read or saw on TV. Would any of you go buy a new computer because I said you should because I saw it on "Big Bang Theory"?
If you were so good at player evaluation you would be working for a NFL or NCAA team.

Bottom line is that the NFL is a business, and decisions are based on a business model. Some choose to throw money at a problem; others choose to build the business from the inside. If you don't like the business model pick a new team...one who you agree with.

Halfcan
06-26-2010, 09:44 PM
The team publicly stated they were going to build through the draft under Herman ****ing Edwards and Carl, and they didn't whiff at it.

Their draft became irrelevent when this regime took over, so it has nothing to do with this team moving forward now, dumbass.

Pioli has stated they are going to build through the draft it has nothing to do with carl-gretz has wrote several articles about it as well based on those comments.

If you can see a clear direction to this team-then I guess you are smarter than 90% of this board-because the chiefs have burned and churned most draft picks-mostly Herms yes-but to suggest the players were dropped because they were carl and Herms picks-Not based on their production and talent is laughable.

Halfcan
06-26-2010, 09:50 PM
I think it is funny that so many posters here are wanting to spend another persons money because of something they read or saw on TV. Would any of you go buy a new computer because I said you should because I saw it on "Big Bang Theory"?
If you were so good at player evaluation you would be working for a NFL or NCAA team.

Bottom line is that the NFL is a business, and decisions are based on a business model. Some choose to throw money at a problem; others choose to build the business from the inside. If you don't like the business model pick a new team...one who you agree with.

I dont think anyone hear wants carlton Greys, mcglocktons and dan Williams or even Haynsworth-but I think we would like to see the chiefs target descent talent in the FA market and bring in guys that can turn this thing around so we dont lose 2 straight years to the Faders in the Home Opener-to just pass on all upper tier FA to save money and then issue a blanket statement that "we will build through the draft" gets tiresome.

milkman
06-26-2010, 09:59 PM
you are contradicting yourself

Pioli has stated they are going to build through the draft it has nothing to do with carl-gretz has wrote several articles about it as well based on those comments.

If you can see a clear direction to this team-then I guess you are smarter than 90% of this board-because the chiefs have burned and churned most draft picks-mostly Herms yes-but to suggest the players were dropped because they were carl and Herms picks-Not based on their production and talent is laughable.

Do you have a mental disability that makes comprehending simple concepts impossible for you to grasp.

Yes, I have concerns about this draft, and yes, last year's draft sucked.

However, while I disagree with Chiefzilla on a number of things, he is right in one thing, Pioli didn't have his people in place last year, and so that draft has to be considered a throwaway.

While this draft has me scatching my head, it hasn't even yet begun to have a chance to prove me or anyone how it will play out.

ChiefsCountry
06-26-2010, 10:02 PM
Well this year's draft already has two players that will be studs Imo.
Posted via Mobile Device

milkman
06-26-2010, 10:02 PM
I dont think anyone hear wants carlton Greys, mcglocktons and dan Williams or even Haynsworth-but I think we would like to see the chiefs target descent talent in the FA market and bring in guys that can turn this thing around so we dont lose 2 straight years to the Faders in the Home Opener-to just pass on all upper tier FA to save money and then issue a blanket statement that "we will build through the draft" gets tiresome.

I hated Herman ****ing Edwards.

But that stupid son of a bitch had one thing right.

You build through the draft.

You are going to have to suffer through a couple of bad seasons, but when things beging to come together if you've doe it right, then you'll have a foundation that cab sustain winning for years.

When you get the core pieces in place, that's when you go after free agents to fill in the missing parts.

milkman
06-26-2010, 10:03 PM
Well this year's draft already has two players that will be studs Imo.
Posted via Mobile Device

Berry and Asoamoah?

Those are the two I think will be.

ChiefsCountry
06-26-2010, 10:05 PM
Berry and Asoamoah?
Those are the two I think will be.

Yep. Personally I think Asamoah will have the better career than Berry. I love that pick alot.
Posted via Mobile Device

BossChief
06-26-2010, 10:06 PM
There is so much dumb in those last two posts of Halfcans, I don't even know where to start.

milkman
06-26-2010, 10:13 PM
Yep. Personally I think Asamoah will have the better career than Berry. I love that pick alot.
Posted via Mobile Device

Personally, I can see Berry in Crennel's system being a playmaker.

I'd like to see him at free safety, but in this system, there really isn't that much difference.

He'll be a ballhawk and a stud in run support.

But, yeah, I think Asomah is going to be a great guard in short order.

Halfcan
06-26-2010, 10:14 PM
Do you have a mental disability that makes comprehending simple concepts impossible for you to grasp.

Yes, I have concerns about this draft, and yes, last year's draft sucked.

However, while I disagree with Chiefzilla on a number of things, he is right in one thing, Pioli didn't have his people in place last year, and so that draft has to be considered a throwaway.
While this draft has me scatching my head, it hasn't even yet begun to have a chance to prove me or anyone how it will play out.

So Pioli states to the media that we will build through the draft-but last years draft was a throw away??? That is the confusion I was talking about-hence our pitiful record.

you are argueing just to be argueing :rolleyes:

for Gretz to try and back that up with a lame article basically stateing that no free agents are worth the money-is crazy. Where would the Pats be without Moss and Welker?? There is talent every year in the FA market-and the Cheaps should try to find those gems instead of just issuing blank "we will build through the draft" BS-You build your team with the BEST talent out there-no matter where it comes from-undrafted FA, the draft, trades, whatever-this city deserves far better than the piece of shit teams they have been putting out there.

And Yes I hope we did get a few Studs this year-and i hope Clark ponies up the money instead of letting them walk when their rookie contracts are up.

milkman
06-26-2010, 10:18 PM
So Pioli states to the media that we will build through the draft-but last years draft was a throw away??? That is the confusion I was talking about-hence our pitiful record.

you are argueing just to be argueing :rolleyes:

for Gretz to try and back that up with a lame article basically stateing that no free agents are worth the money-is crazy. Where would the Pats be without Moss and Welker?? There is talent every year in the FA market-and the Cheaps should try to find those gems instead of just issuing blank "we will build through the draft" BS-You build your team with the BEST talent out there-no matter where it comes from-undrafted FA, the draft, trades, whatever-this city deserves far better than the piece of shit teams they have been putting out there.

And Yes I hope we did get a few Studs this year-and i hope Clark ponies up the money instead of letting them walk when their rookie contracts are up.

Let's see.

The Pats won a SB or two before Welker and Moss, who weren't free agent acquisitions, btw.

How many have they won since those two joined the team again?

And in spite of my reservations about Pioli, and I hate defending him, the fact is, he did hit the free agent market this offseason.

You're just posting stupid shit because you are a stupid shit.

milkman
06-26-2010, 10:21 PM
So Pioli states to the media that we will build through the draft-but last years draft was a throw away??? That is the confusion I was talking about-hence our pitiful record.

And yes, that's exactly what it is.

He handled the entire thing poorly, and it pissed me off, but the fact is, he didn't have his people, and he tried to make do with what he remembered from the Pats scouting reports and with the help of one other guy.

He should have used the Cheifs scouting staff that was still inplace, and drafted with a different plan, but he didn't.

It sucked ass, but there it is.

Halfcan
06-26-2010, 10:22 PM
Let's see.

The Pats won a SB or two before Welker and Moss, who weren't free agent acquisitions, btw.

How many have they won since those two joined the team again?

And in spite of my reservations about Pioli, and I hate defending him, the fact is, he did hit the free agent market this offseason.

You're just posting stupid shit because you are a stupid shit.

more name calling-:shake: that is pretty much how any discussion with you ends-

milkman
06-26-2010, 10:24 PM
more name calling-:shake: that is pretty much how any discussion with you ends-

Only with dumbasses.

You are so thickheaded, civil discussion is impossible.

Halfcan
06-26-2010, 10:28 PM
And yes, that's exactly what it is.

He handled the entire thing poorly, and it pissed me off, but the fact is, he didn't have his people, and he tried to make do with what he remembered from the Pats scouting reports and with the help of one other guy.

He should have used the Cheifs scouting staff that was still inplace, and drafted with a different plan, but he didn't.

It sucked ass, but there it is.

I think that was my point to start with-jeez :shake: If you are going to come out and say you are going to build through the draft-you better get some players that can turn this thing around. I like how they targeted some"explosive" talent-namely Mcluster and Berry-instead of just getting some fill in the blank worker bee's. The Chiefs realize they sorely lacked team speed last year and set out to fix that-so I hope they are heading in the right direction-I miss the days when going to Arrowhead was fun.

Yes it can be done-the Steelers-have done very well with this.

milkman
06-26-2010, 10:30 PM
[/b]

I think that was my point to start with-jeez :shake: If you are going to come out and say you are going to build through the draft-you better get some players that can turn this thing around. I like how they targeted some"explosive" talent-namely Mcluster and Berry-instead of just getting some fill in the blank worker bee's. The Chiefs realize they sorely lacked team speed last year and set out to fix that-so I hope they are heading in the right direction-I miss the days when going to Arrowhead was fun.

Yes it can be done-the Steelers-have done very well with this.

But using one draft to talk about the team's history is pretty weak.

My point is that you have to build a history in order to use history to support an argument.

Pioli hasn't built that history.

Halfcan
06-26-2010, 10:35 PM
Only with dumbasses.

You are so thickheaded, civil discussion is impossible.

blah blah blah- you only see things one way and then start with the dumbass and insults-is that what you call a "civil" discusion???

I disagree with you plenty but I dont resort to petty name calling-a lot of people including myself-respect your football knowledge based on a lifetime of watching a game you love-when you lower yourself to just calling people dumbasses because they might have a different opinion-it reflects very badly on you.

I might be jaded when it comes to certain players- but I freakin Love the the chiefs and want them to start wining so bad I dont care what the hell they have to do-they have been an embarassment since clark took over-so I hope to god this is the draft that turns it around.

Chief Roundup
06-26-2010, 10:36 PM
I tend to agree with the article.
You build a team through the draft and suppliment your team with FA. Generally but not always the first player signings are for huge money and it doesn't usually work out for the team that signed those players.
The best FA signings are generallly the second tier FA. Less money and those players still have something to prove and are more role type players. So they generally suppliment your team that you have and or are building through the draft.

kysirsoze
06-26-2010, 10:38 PM
blah blah blah- you only see things one way and then start with the dumbass and insults-is that what you call a "civil" discusion???

I disagree with you plenty but I dont resort to petty name calling-a lot of people including myself-respect your football knowledge based on a lifetime of watching a game you love-when you lower yourself to just calling people dumbasses because they might have a different opinion-it reflects very badly on you.

I might be jaded when it comes to certain players- but I freakin Love the the chiefs and want them to start wining so bad I dont care what the hell they have to do-they have been an embarassment since clark took over-so I hope to god this is the draft that turns it around.

It started when Lamar was still around. It started when he refused to see reason and fire Peterson.

Halfcan
06-26-2010, 10:38 PM
But using one draft to talk about the team's history is pretty weak.

My point is that you have to build a history in order to use history to support an argument.

Pioli hasn't built that history.

I totally agree with that-lets hope that this is the year.

milkman
06-26-2010, 10:43 PM
blah blah blah- you only see things one way and then start with the dumbass and insults-is that what you call a "civil" discusion???

I disagree with you plenty but I dont resort to petty name calling-a lot of people including myself-respect your football knowledge based on a lifetime of watching a game you love-when you lower yourself to just calling people dumbasses because they might have a different opinion-it reflects very badly on you.

I might be jaded when it comes to certain players- but I freakin Love the the chiefs and want them to start wining so bad I dont care what the hell they have to do-they have been an embarassment since clark took over-so I hope to god this is the draft that turns it around.

I have disagreements with a number of people who I don't resort to name calling with.

You require a harder approach to get through.

Eventually (usually), you begin to come around and start to open your eyes to things outside your narrow scope.

But it does require a certain amount of nastiness.

Halfcan
06-26-2010, 10:46 PM
It started when Lamar was still around. It started when he refused to see reason and fire Peterson.

Well carl did bring winning back to KC-but just never brought in the right balance-That is why he was never fired-he put butts in the seats and made Lamar money.

Pioloi has a ways to go just to get to Carls level-his track record in the draft and with the cassel contract-does not look good-BUT I think he is building a Great coaching staff that can get it done-lets hope he still has the magic to bring a winning program to KC like he did for the Pats.

Halfcan
06-26-2010, 10:47 PM
I have disagreements with a number of people who I don't resort to name calling with.

You require a harder approach to get through.

Eventually (usually), you begin to come around and start to open your eyes to things outside your narrow scope.

But it does require a certain amount of nastiness.

ROFL Oh please-how many people have you called a dumbass just today???

milkman
06-26-2010, 10:51 PM
ROFL Oh please-how many people have you called a dumbass just today???

I lost count.

What's your point?

Halfcan
06-26-2010, 11:14 PM
I lost count.

What's your point?

you said you dont resort to name calling-you like "civil" discusions-lol :D

milkman
06-26-2010, 11:24 PM
you said you dont resort to name calling-you like "civil" discusions-lol :D

No, I said I don't always resort to namecalling.

I do resort to it quite often.

Sometimes it's just a joke.

Sometimes, like with you, it's to simply pound home a point that you can't see with it.

Most times, though it's because the person I'm talking to is just beyond all hope.
Those are the ones that get bambarded.

But there still are some that I can disagree with civilly, because they don't have to be bludgeoned over the head (figuratively) to see things from a different perspective.

Halfcan
06-26-2010, 11:47 PM
No, I said I don't always resort to namecalling.

I do resort to it quite often.

Sometimes it's just a joke.

Sometimes, like with you, it's to simply pound home a point that you can't see with it.

Most times, though it's because the person I'm talking to is just beyond all hope.
Those are the ones that get bambarded.

But there still are some that I can disagree with civilly, because they don't have to be bludgeoned over the head (figuratively) to see things from a different perspective.


ROFL at least you have a tried and proven system :)

chiefzilla1501
06-27-2010, 09:15 AM
ROFL at least you have a tried and proven system :)

You guys are adorable. Lost in this thread is that milkman said I was right on something. I just printed it out and framed it on my bathroom. Woot.

Halfcan
06-27-2010, 01:09 PM
You guys are adorable. Lost in this thread is that milkman said I was right on something. I just printed it out and framed it on my bathroom. Woot.

ROFL

Sweet Daddy Hate
06-27-2010, 04:58 PM
This thread has been fine reading material. I approve.

Rausch
06-27-2010, 05:00 PM
This thread has been fine reading material. I approve.

He writes the same type of $3it every year...

Rausch
06-27-2010, 05:01 PM
you said you dont resort to name calling-you like "civil" discusions-lol :D

Why the fuck is he here?...

BossChief
06-27-2010, 06:25 PM
Geez, reading Halfcans posts is brutal on the eyes.

He thinks that a - is a .
He has no idea of how to use capitol letters
His spelling would give Bump a full time job
The posts themselves make no sense, most of the time anyway.

I literally have to read some of his posts a couple times just to understand what he meant.

Sweet Daddy Hate
06-27-2010, 09:37 PM
He writes the same type of $3it every year...

Fuck Gretz; I was referring to the football awesomeness that IS Chiefs Planet.

Sweet Daddy Hate
06-27-2010, 09:39 PM
Geez, reading Halfcans posts is brutal on the eyes.

He thinks that a - is a .
He has no idea of how to use capitol letters
His spelling would give Bump a full time job
The posts themselves make no sense, most of the time anyway.

I literally have to read some of his posts a couple times just to understand what he meant.

And what a fucking joy that would be, yes...:facepalm:

milkman
06-27-2010, 09:40 PM
Geez, reading Halfcans posts is brutal on the eyes.

He thinks that a - is a .
He has no idea of how to use capitol letters
His spelling would give Bump a full time job
The posts themselves make no sense, most of the time anyway.

I literally have to read some of his posts a couple times just to understand what he meant.

Halfwit isn't a bad guy.

As I said, he just sometimes needs some sense blugeoned into him.

BossChief
06-28-2010, 05:09 AM
Halfwit isn't a bad guy.

As I said, he just sometimes needs some sense blugeoned into him.

You know that he is gonna print this out and put it up on the fridge now, right?

boogblaster
06-28-2010, 09:40 AM
Did anyone mention we needed a NT .....

HemiEd
06-28-2010, 01:21 PM
The first few paragraphs, have an eery resemblance to a Rufus Dawes article.

milkman
06-28-2010, 10:13 PM
You know that he is gonna print this out and put it up on the fridge now, right?

I doubt he owns a fridge.

I bet he catches his food and eats it raw, and feeds the leftovers to his dog.