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HonestChieffan
06-30-2010, 04:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYfGCMORVoY&feature=player_embedded#!

Mr. Flopnuts
06-30-2010, 04:51 PM
HC, are Republicans different?

ChiefaRoo
06-30-2010, 06:35 PM
Many Republicans have proven themselves to be just as worthless and self serving as the Dems.

We need to replace all these users with true public servants who want to make the nation a better place.

We've got to cut spending, eliminate burdens for the people who produce jobs and goods in America. We need to turn loose the creative energies of our nation.

Government programs and the welfare state are nice temporary safety nets but they don't produce anything long term for us as a people.

We will not prosper again as a nation until we get real growth and fiscal responsibility. Without it our debt will consume us and our liberty will be taken from us by Washington all in the name of "helping us as citizens"

I doubt any Democrat or Republican who loves America and believes in our greatness and exceptionalism wants the USA to turn into a permanent debtor nation that relies
on Govt. officials and policy wonks to make our lives better.

The Classic American model works.

MadMax
06-30-2010, 07:00 PM
HC, are Republicans different?



No they ALL SUCK!!!!! Every damned one of them.
Alle Politiker sollten sterben und in der Hölle schmoren

BigChiefFan
06-30-2010, 07:03 PM
This looks like a decent candidate for Missouri...

http://purgasonforsenate.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=59&Itemid=69

The Mad Crapper
07-27-2010, 05:54 AM
In the New Testament, John was baptizing a crowd of people and drawing a lot of attention. Somebody came up and said, "John, are you the Christ or should we keep looking?" Without missing a beat John said, "No, I am not the Messiah."
See, John knew what he was, but he also knew what he was not. It's just as important to know what you're not because if you don't realize your limitations, you'll get drawn into areas that may look impressive and may feed your ego, but they are outside of your gifting and calling; outside of what God anointed you to do. Anytime you go outside of your limitations, it will be a constant struggle. Don't let that be you! Instead, stay focused on what you're good at. Follow peace in your heart and know your limitations because God has created you just the way He wants you to be!

Brainiac
07-27-2010, 07:05 AM
Republicans are far from perfect. But our immediate problem is that the Democrats have WAY too much power, which gives them the ability to ram their left-wing agenda down everyone's throat.

I've always voted for gridlock in government. If one party controls Congress, I strongly prefer to have the other party in the White House. Then those assholes have to work together and neither side can push us too far in either direction.

Since Obama is going to be President for at least another two years, I will be voting a straight Republican ticket in all of the other races. This will be the first time I've ever done that, but the way the Democrats lined up in lockstep to vote for that abomination of a Health Care bill, I now see what a mistake it was for me to vote for Dennis Moore and a few other Democrats last time.

Radar Chief
07-27-2010, 07:32 AM
HC, are Republicans different?

That is the problem, isn’t it.
Sure, the Dems will face the music in November but the only party with a legitimate shot at catching the fall out is the Republicans.

InChiefsHell
07-27-2010, 08:20 AM
Anybody read the 5000 Year Leap? I'm about 100 pages in, but one of things I found interesting was the way the founders looked at politics, not right and left wing like we do. You had Monarchy (Totalitarianism) on the far left, and Anarchy (No government whatsoever) on the far right. They strove to set up a government that was just right of center.

If you haven't read it, it's a really simple quick read.

The Mad Crapper
07-27-2010, 08:31 AM
Anybody read the 5000 Year Leap? I'm about 100 pages in, but one of things I found interesting was the way the founders looked at politics, not right and left wing like we do. You had Monarchy (Totalitarianism) on the far left, and Anarchy (No government whatsoever) on the far right. They strove to set up a government that was just right of center.

If you haven't read it, it's a really simple quick read.

Thanks for the tip, I just ordered a copy!

:thumb:

Jenson71
07-27-2010, 12:02 PM
Anybody read the 5000 Year Leap? I'm about 100 pages in, but one of things I found interesting was the way the founders looked at politics, not right and left wing like we do. You had Monarchy (Totalitarianism) on the far left, and Anarchy (No government whatsoever) on the far right. They strove to set up a government that was just right of center.

If you haven't read it, it's a really simple quick read.

Why is monarchy far left? Why is anarchy far right? I don't get it, and I don't remember learning that the Founding Fathers viewed things from that perspective.

It's pretty clear to me what the Founding Fathers had in mind for a great government: a republic, which was "a government which derives all its powers directly or indirectly from the great body of the people, and is administered by persons holding their offices during pleasure, for a limited period, or during good behavior." That's from Federalist 39.

This didn't come from a 19th cen. perspective where they discussed anarchism from Russian writers and Marxism from Germans, mixed with 20 cen. notions of totalitarianism. This was a classically liberal perspective shaped by 18th cen. enlightenment thought and education.

InChiefsHell
07-27-2010, 12:17 PM
Why is monarchy far left? Why is anarchy far right? I don't get it, and I don't remember learning that the Founding Fathers viewed things from that perspective.

It's pretty clear to me what the Founding Fathers had in mind for a great government: a republic, which was "a government which derives all its powers directly or indirectly from the great body of the people, and is administered by persons holding their offices during pleasure, for a limited period, or during good behavior." That's from Federalist 39.

This didn't come from a 19th cen. perspective where they discussed anarchism from Russian writers and Marxism from Germans, mixed with 20 cen. notions of totalitarianism. This was a classically liberal perspective shaped by 18th cen. enlightenment thought and education.

Jenson, just read the book. It lays it out and backs it up with quotes and citations galore. This is not a right-wing book, rather it details how the founding fathers were able to make things work in spite of their VAST differences of opinion as to HOW they were going to work. I'm not done with it yet, but please don't be dismissive of this book just because I'm a conservative.

InChiefsHell
07-27-2010, 12:19 PM
And by the way, the modern concept of Left and Right are not the same as the way they viewed it. You'll have to check out the book to get what I mean. I don't have it here but later I'll try to find the more relevant sections, but that'll take some time to write out.

Heck, I urge everyone to read this book. Lots of stuff that I NEVER knew and for sure never learned about in High School history.

ROYC75
07-27-2010, 12:24 PM
Many Republicans have proven themselves to be just as worthless and self serving as the Dems.

We need to replace all these users with true public servants who want to make the nation a better place.

We've got to cut spending, eliminate burdens for the people who produce jobs and goods in America. We need to turn loose the creative energies of our nation.

Government programs and the welfare state are nice temporary safety nets but they don't produce anything long term for us as a people.

We will not prosper again as a nation until we get real growth and fiscal responsibility. Without it our debt will consume us and our liberty will be taken from us by Washington all in the name of "helping us as citizens"

I doubt any Democrat or Republican who loves America and believes in our greatness and exceptionalism wants the USA to turn into a permanent debtor nation that relies
on Govt. officials and policy wonks to make our lives better.

The Classic American model works.

Bingo, always changing administrations bring changes , from a change, from a change, from a change, etc. Nothing long term ever gets done cause both parties want control of it their way.

Jenson71
07-27-2010, 12:27 PM
Jenson, just read the book. It lays it out and backs it up with quotes and citations galore. This is not a right-wing book, rather it details how the founding fathers were able to make things work in spite of their VAST differences of opinion as to HOW they were going to work. I'm not done with it yet, but please don't be dismissive of this book just because I'm a conservative.

If this isn't a right-wing book, I don't think it's possible to write one.

InChiefsHell
07-27-2010, 12:30 PM
If this isn't a right-wing book, I don't think it's possible to write one.

Just keep your head in the sand. :shake:

Jenson71
07-27-2010, 12:56 PM
Just keep your head in the sand. :shake:

For God's sake, be honest here. W. Cleon Skousen was a huge, vocal right-wing, free-market, Mormon, John Birch supporting, Reaganite.

The book is being promoted by the most populist of right-wingers today, Glenn Beck.

You claimed that the Founders saw politics as a scale of Monarchy on the far left and Anarchy on the far right, and they set up a government that was slightly more anarchical-based than monarchical. I have my doubts that their views of politics and government was based on that puzzling prism.

InChiefsHell
07-27-2010, 01:00 PM
For God's sake, be honest here. W. Cleon Skousen was a huge, vocal right-wing, free-market, Mormon, John Birch supporting, Reaganite.

The book is being promoted by the most populist of right-wingers today, Glenn Beck.

You claimed that the Founders saw politics as a scale of Monarchy on the far left and Anarchy on the far right, and they set up a government that was slightly more anarchical-based than monarchical. I have my doubts that their views of politics and government was based on that puzzling prism.

YOu are going to MAKE me pull all this shit out of the book. I don't know if I have the energy.

Again. Keep your head in the sand. You've done what you were taught. I can't really blame you.

Jenson71
07-27-2010, 01:11 PM
YOu are going to MAKE me pull all this shit out of the book. I don't know if I have the energy.

Again. Keep your head in the sand. You've done what you were taught. I can't really blame you.

Great conversation.

I asked you two questions to expand on something you thought was interesting from the book, and you become extremely defensive, telling me I just have to read the book for myself and take my head out of the sand, implying that I've been indoctrinated by 'the educational system' and should not question whether the book has a particular political or ideological bias.

stevieray
07-27-2010, 01:22 PM
Anybody read the 5000 Year Leap? I'm about 100 pages in, but one of things I found interesting was the way the founders looked at politics, not right and left wing like we do. You had Monarchy (Totalitarianism) on the far left, and Anarchy (No government whatsoever) on the far right. They strove to set up a government that was just right of center.

If you haven't read it, it's a really simple quick read.
excellent book and apt title...it was cool how they ascertained natural law from cicero....

lot of people don't realize that George Whitfileld was the most well known man during the revolution..banned from churches...whose main and truest measage was that man's relationship with God was a personal one, and not derived from a King or Church.

Jenson71
07-27-2010, 01:31 PM
excellent book and apt title...it was cool how they acertained natural law from cicero....

What's so cool about that?

InChiefsHell
07-27-2010, 01:34 PM
Great conversation.

I asked you two questions to expand on something you thought was interesting from the book, and you become extremely defensive, telling me I just have to read the book for myself and take my head out of the sand, implying that I've been indoctrinated by 'the educational system' and should not question whether the book has a particular political or ideological bias.

*sigh* Not defensive. Sometimes message forums are not very conducive to conversation. I'm not defensive. I'm simply saying it's easier if you read it then have me go back and hand type the quotes needed.

I don't have the book with me, which I should have said. And I don't have the energy to go through it and type it all out. Being a young college dude, I figured you'd like it. It's pretty quick reading.

InChiefsHell
07-27-2010, 01:35 PM
What's so cool about that?

Cicero was not a Christian. Yet the natural law that he espoused was also a very Christian concept.

Jenson71
07-27-2010, 02:06 PM
Well it's no secret that a lot of the early Church Fathers were well-read in Greek-based philosophical schools like Stoicism (where Cicero got a lot of his ideas on law) and NeoPlatonism, which St. Augustine was before his conversion, and adopted and adapted some of the ideas freely.

ChiefsCountry
07-27-2010, 03:55 PM
Since Obama is going to be President for at least another two years, I will be voting a straight Republican ticket in all of the other races. This will be the first time I've ever done that, but the way the Democrats lined up in lockstep to vote for that abomination of a Health Care bill, I now see what a mistake it was for me to vote for Dennis Moore and a few other Democrats last time.

Same here. I generally vote for the best candiate but any of the decent Democrats fucked up with the health care vote.

Calcountry
07-27-2010, 04:18 PM
Many Republicans have proven themselves to be just as worthless and self serving as the Dems.

We need to replace all these users with true public servants who want to make the nation a better place.

We've got to cut spending, eliminate burdens for the people who produce jobs and goods in America. We need to turn loose the creative energies of our nation.

Government programs and the welfare state are nice temporary safety nets but they don't produce anything long term for us as a people.

We will not prosper again as a nation until we get real growth and fiscal responsibility. Without it our debt will consume us and our liberty will be taken from us by Washington all in the name of "helping us as citizens"

I doubt any Democrat or Republican who loves America and believes in our greatness and exceptionalism wants the USA to turn into a permanent debtor nation that relies
on Govt. officials and policy wonks to make our lives better.

The Classic American model works.This will only work, if the citizens stay informed, active, and involved. Not until then, will the smug, arrogance of dipshits like John Kerry and his Yacht, be wiped off their collective lordship's asses.