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View Full Version : Life need a stat if you guys can find it...


AustinChief
06-30-2010, 11:26 PM
what % of gun MURDERS in the USA are committed by LEGAL gun owners.. I know it's low... Exclude suicides and whatnot.. Just convicted murders. Leave the politics out.. Just need a figue and hopefully a citation to prove it... On phone so tough to find right now.

RedNFeisty
06-30-2010, 11:37 PM
http://gunowners.org/op0746.htm

You might be wanting this... Law & Public Policy, vol. 30, pages 651-694, but I am unable to open it on this pc, so not sure.

AustinChief
06-30-2010, 11:54 PM
good link but need hard stats if possible.

ClevelandBronco
07-01-2010, 12:00 AM
what % of gun MURDERS in the USA are committed by LEGAL gun owners.. I know it's low... Exclude suicides and whatnot.. Just convicted murders. Leave the politics out.. Just need a figue and hopefully a citation to prove it... On phone so tough to find right now.

You absolutely must get rid of that dial-up internet connection.

FAX
07-01-2010, 12:07 AM
I've been searching. It's interesting ... that stat is amazingly difficult to find. It's as though no one wants to publish that data ... either that, or it's such a small number it's insignificant. I'll look a little longer, though.

FAX

luv
07-01-2010, 12:12 AM
I've been searching. It's interesting ... that stat is amazingly difficult to find. It's as though no one wants to publish that data ... either that, or it's such a small number it's insignificant. I'll look a little longer, though.

FAX

Same here. Not finding anything but general articles. Stats, specs, %.....nothing working.

FAX
07-01-2010, 12:15 AM
Wow. That's amazing. I got nothin'.

FAX

KCHawg
07-01-2010, 12:16 AM
I've been searching. It's interesting ... that stat is amazingly difficult to find. It's as though no one wants to publish that data ... either that, or it's such a small number it's insignificant. I'll look a little longer, though.

FAX

I believe the answer is both, Mr. Fax.

ClevelandBronco
07-01-2010, 12:19 AM
I'm finding some interesting stuff, but not the stuff you're asking for.

FAX
07-01-2010, 12:22 AM
Crap. I can't find that stat ... I did find a site called

http://www.firearmsid.com

That said ...

No national collection of data contains detailed information about all of the guns used in crimes. Snapshots of information about the guns used by criminals are available\

* official police records concerning the guns recovered in crimes and reports gathered from victims

* surveys that interview criminals

* surveys that interview victims of crime.

From these sources, we know how often guns are involved in crime, how guns are used in crime, what general categories of firearms are most often used in crime, and, to a limited extent, the specific types of guns most frequently used by criminals.

Pretty interesting, actually.

FAX

FAX
07-01-2010, 12:26 AM
Also found a wacky article that said ...

In Brazil, most of the crime guns seized by police were once legally-owned, according to a report from the government of Rio de Janeiro state (Brazil), released on 3 October

* 72% of crime guns were once legally-owned
* 65% of registered guns used in crime once belonged to civilians

All we have to do now is extrapolate the Brazilian data into US data and add some stuff about legal ownership at the time of the crime and figure out how many crimes were murders. Where's Mr. cdcox when you need him?

FAX

FAX
07-01-2010, 12:30 AM
Found this at ...

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P1-68903513.html

Fed: Most guns used in crime not registered: criminologist

CANBERRA, Oct 22 AAP - Banning handguns would have little impact on crime because most handgun crime was committed by those who neither held licences or registered their guns, a criminologist said today.

A shooting rampage at Melbourne's Monash University yesterday in which two people were killed and five wounded sparked calls around the nation today for tougher gun laws.

The man accused of the shooting was a licensed shooter with appropriate permits for his handguns, it emerged today.

Problem is, you have to register with the friggin' site to read the balance of the article. I wonder how many registered articles have been responsible for suicide?

FAX

luv
07-01-2010, 12:30 AM
Not finding anything on that exact stat on the Dept of Justice website.

Baconeater
07-01-2010, 12:32 AM
Found this at ...

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P1-68903513.html

Fed: Most guns used in crime not registered: criminologist

CANBERRA, Oct 22 AAP - Banning handguns would have little impact on crime because most handgun crime was committed by those who neither held licences or registered their guns, a criminologist said today.

A shooting rampage at Melbourne's Monash University yesterday in which two people were killed and five wounded sparked calls around the nation today for tougher gun laws.

The man accused of the shooting was a licensed shooter with appropriate permits for his handguns, it emerged today.

Problem is, you have to register with the friggin' site to read the balance of the article. I wonder how many registered articles have been responsible for suicide?

FAX
That would be perfect if he was looking for that stats in Australia.

FAX
07-01-2010, 12:35 AM
This appears to be a very thorough study ... pdf format, though.

Doesn't have the specific percentage of legal vs. illegal weapon used in crime ... let alone murder, sadly. This is damn hard to find, man.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=37&ved=0CDsQFjAGOB4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbjs.ojp.usdoj.gov%2Fcontent%2Fpub%2Fpdf%2FGUIC.PDF&ei=MigsTNzDOcO78gbo8OGWDg&usg=AFQjCNEc2FwIQrrGRkAqJn6VciGrD6eNgQ&sig2=5AlwmYC9g2k0F-d_wxNbzg

Quick View

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=68&ved=0CD0QxQEwJTge&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fviewer%3Fa%3Dv%26q%3Dcache%3AjxSL26a1MJ4J%3Abjs.ojp.usdoj.gov%2Fc ontent%2Fpub%2Fpdf%2FGUIC.PDF%2Bregistered%2Bguns%2Bused%2Bcrimes%26hl%3Den%26gl%3Dus%26pid%3Dbl%26s rcid%3DADGEESjTYxshvJRNK-pi4QXFY-WZK3rcbXgwHng59-zJK1kCNCgGmVEV0AZ5cI6LZ2upOJKH-WrYWC7D-v_mh7v_nMBug_JF9HJQqmF1g6GHPZlqvD8tA4mnupJRGEuXTYDP99jIZrJj%26sig%3DAHIEtbT7at01cOPOJQF3ECg42SKj8r4L Aw&ei=MigsTNzDOcO78gbo8OGWDg&usg=AFQjCNGkf_Xbrdecz_Cg_YrBRUY_uKZ5JQ&sig2=KXz6SpuP51Q_0BuxxWbcoQ

FAX

FAX
07-01-2010, 12:35 AM
That would be perfect if he was looking for that stats in Australia.

Brazil's probably better.

FAX

LetsSignRussell
07-01-2010, 12:35 AM
quit being an ass Bug

FAX
07-01-2010, 12:36 AM
Somebody stop me.

I'm about to shoot Mr. Bugeater.

FAX

Baconeater
07-01-2010, 12:39 AM
Maybe we should just make up a number, it's not like he'll know any different.

Ummm...it's 12% Kyle.

Baconeater
07-01-2010, 12:39 AM
Oh, and here's the link to prove it:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=6853187&postcount=19

FAX
07-01-2010, 12:40 AM
Canada chimes in with a lame statistic.

http://www.torontoobserver.ca/2008/12/13/how-solving-the-gun-crime-problem

Roughly one third of guns used in Toronto’s crimes are stolen from registered owners. Banning everyone from owning handguns would keep them off the market for criminals, the crime prevention officer said.

FAX

FAX
07-01-2010, 12:41 AM
Gun loaded ...

Gun cocked ...

Gun pointed at Mr. Bugeater's profile page ...

FAX

luv
07-01-2010, 12:42 AM
Somebody stop me.

I'm about to shoot Mr. Bugeater.

FAX

No, no, no! Shoot me instead.

Wait, are you a legal gun owner? Shoot us both. We need to pad those stats!

FAX
07-01-2010, 12:46 AM
This from the NY Sun ...

http://www.nysun.com/new-york/new-database-will-track-guns-used-in-crimes/71327/

New York City is building a new database to track guns used in crimes, and it intends to share the information with police departments up and down the East Coast in an effort to crack down on illegal gun trafficking.


Now you tell me. Good idea, assholes.

Apparently, no one is tracking that data. Either that, or they're not reporting it for some reason. It's fascinating, really.

I'm sure it's out there ... but, damn.

Really, really difficult to find, Mr. AustinChief.

FAX

CrazyPhuD
07-01-2010, 12:51 AM
SOme interesting stats....

http://www.gunblast.com/Gun_Facts.htm

FACT: Less than 1% of all guns will ever be used in the commission of any type of crime (much less violent crime).

*FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1994

FACT: Two-thirds of the people that die each year from gunfire are criminals shooting other criminals.

* FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1994

FAX
07-01-2010, 12:51 AM
ROFL

I finally find something and I don't believe their stats. It's from the NY Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/02/21/us/study-exposes-illegal-traffic-in-new-guns.html

As many as one-third of the guns used in crimes by juveniles and up to half of those used by people aged 18 to 24 were purchased within the last three years from federally licensed dealers, showing that large numbers of new guns are being sold illegally, according to a report to be released by the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms today.

Somewhere along the way, I saw a stat that went something like ... "... 97 percent of legal weapons used in crime originate from 2 percent of gun sellers ..." or something like that ... it's close, anyhow.

Also, the Times isn't mentioning that, although the guns may have been originally purchased legally and licensed, the majority used in assaults were stolen at some point prior to the crime.

FAX

luv
07-01-2010, 12:53 AM
You mentioned suicide, but what about self-defense? Outside of suicide, that seems to be where the majority are happening. I keep seeing how 95% of homicides are committed by people who have the gun illegally. Nothing to back that up, though.

EDIT: Never mind. You said convicted murderers. Self-defense would not be included with that.

FAX
07-01-2010, 12:55 AM
Another PDF with lots of good data ... kinda old, but still interesting ...

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:fwneUOUF6F0J:www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/163496.pdf+illegal+guns+used+crime&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESg-IdOmoEAy6wZDywhU_-xKqlAQQCLMBvhrsN7V0BfqIQlv5iGUEkTcWo1QH30cCi8w692jzjmfa6pdP_6E8bSarcI6Z78II8x4X9yFTHwAuifTp9mkGrEP0x IGRcTogAwxl0_o&sig=AHIEtbT-ZkOg4erqrrgOje9bzabUC2p4OQ

This report states that a crap load (that's a high percentage for you laypeeps) of criminals who use guns during the commission of a crime also use meth.

FAX

CrazyPhuD
07-01-2010, 12:55 AM
More info to troll....

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/offenses/expanded_information/homicide.html

FAX
07-01-2010, 12:56 AM
Yeah, I found quite a bit of information on self-defense ... guys talking about why it's important to own a gun ... they don't tell you how many of those guys are killing either people or fridges for no good reason, though.

FAX

LetsSignRussell
07-01-2010, 12:56 AM
will I get my thread making back AND my rep???

edit: AND a name change?

luv
07-01-2010, 01:01 AM
I emailed this question to the Dept of Justice.

FAX
07-01-2010, 01:46 AM
Well, tell the DOJ to get their ass in gear and indict Mr. Bugeater for crimes against humanity and for eating bugs and for being a naughty, bad person who doesn't believe in the power of goodness and niceness and decent fellowship. Also, tell them that it's okay to shoot him if they want to.

FAX

Buck
07-01-2010, 01:58 AM
Are you asking a republican or democrat?

A republican will tell you less than 10%, but a democrat will tell you over 80%

bevischief
07-01-2010, 05:41 AM
I emailed this question to the Dept of Justice.

This can't end well...

Rukdafaidas
07-01-2010, 06:07 AM
Some info out of Canada:

http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/breitkreuzgpress/2006/dec7.htm

NEWS RELEASE
December 7, 2006
For Immediate Release

5,194 HOMICIDES IN 9 YEARS: 2.27% OF GUNS USED WERE REGISTERED
“Statistics Canada tables also show only 2.1% of murderers had a valid firearms licence.”

Ottawa – Today, Saskatchewan M.P. Garry Breitkreuz released unpublished tables from Statistics Canada that prove once again the futility of the Liberal’s billion-dollar firearms program. “The analysis of these new tables by Professor Gary Mauser of Simon Fraser University shows what we all knew: criminals don’t register their guns and can’t be bothered to qualify for a firearms licence,” commented Breitkreuz. “Sadly, these statistics also prove the main point I have been making for the last 12 years, that laying a piece of paper beside a gun doesn’t prevent it from being used to murder someone.”

PROFESSOR MAUSER’S ANALYSIS OF NEW STATISTICS CANADA TABLES

OF 5,194 TOTAL HOMICIDES BETWEEN 1997 & 2005

* 118 (2.27%) were committed with a registered gun;
* 63 (1.21%) were committed with a firearm registered to the accused murderer;
* 111 (2.14%) were committed by a person that held a valid firearms licence.

OF 1,572 FIREARMS HOMICIDES BETWEEN 1997 & 2005

* 118 (7.51%) were committed with a registered firearm;
* 63 (4.01%) were committed with a firearms registered to the accused murderer;
* 111 (7.06%) were committed by a person that held a valid firearms licence.

OF THE TWO-MILLION LICENCED GUN OWNERS IN CANADA

* 111 (0.00555%) Used their firearm to murder someone

luv
07-01-2010, 07:20 AM
This can't end well...

Why? I explained that a friend had brought up the question, I had searched for information, but I was not able to find any statistics on this subject. I asked if they had any data regarding the topic. I also said that if they were the wrong ones to ask, to disregard, and thanked them for their time.

notorious
07-01-2010, 08:17 AM
Anyone try the NRA's website?


Their research usually includes some good info, along with exactly what was included/excluded, unlike the unbeliebably skewed results you get from anti-gun stats that show none of the parameters or how their research was done.

Lzen
07-01-2010, 08:46 AM
Canada chimes in with a lame statistic.

http://www.torontoobserver.ca/2008/12/13/how-solving-the-gun-crime-problem

Roughly one third of guns used in Toronto’s crimes are stolen from registered owners. Banning everyone from owning handguns would keep them off the market for criminals, the crime prevention officer said.

FAX

When I see quotes like this, I wonder if they are being completely truthful. Are those guns stolen? Or were some of them just sold, bought, sold, bought, etc. through the years until they finally ended up in the criminal's hands? Guns are bought and sold and bought and sold again just like any other commodity.

Sofa King
07-01-2010, 09:18 AM
will I get my thread making back AND my rep???

edit: AND a name change?

http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/boyd507/NewThread.gif

Saggysack
07-01-2010, 09:25 AM
You would probably have to pull stats from more than one source to even begin to have an idea. And even then I wouldn't consider them very reliable from any source. Have you tried any stats from the ATF?