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The Mad Crapper
07-01-2010, 11:03 AM
What the...? :doh!:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/07/01/obama_being_an_american_not_a_matter_of_blood_or_birth.html

fan4ever
07-01-2010, 11:05 AM
Amnesty, here we come...by executive order???

chiefsnorth
07-01-2010, 11:06 AM
Is this a f*cking joke?

The Mad Crapper
07-01-2010, 11:07 AM
Is this a f*cking joke?

I wish it was. I really do.

talastan
07-01-2010, 11:11 AM
I love this line

"Now, we can't forget that this process of immigration and eventual inclusion has often been painful. Each new wave of immigrants has generated fear and resentment towards newcomers, particularly in times of economic upheaval," Obama said.

So basically if you don't agree with me you're a racist!!

HonestChieffan
07-01-2010, 11:19 AM
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dirk digler
07-01-2010, 11:22 AM
Is Donger not an American?

Donger
07-01-2010, 11:24 AM
He's right, sort of and partially.

The Mad Crapper
07-01-2010, 11:24 AM
http://www.iaza.com/work/100624C/fliesonshit8954269224-iaza.jpg

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 11:25 AM
I don't get the faith statement but the rest of it is right

The Mad Crapper
07-01-2010, 11:28 AM
I don't get the faith statement but the rest of it is right

So I guess we can deport the mexican anchor babies, now.

HonestChieffan
07-01-2010, 11:31 AM
No one resents immigrants because of economic conditions. That Obama Leftist BS Spin and they damn sure know it.

What people are fed up with is freaking ILLEGAL immigrants. We shouldn't even refer to them as immigrants at all they are criminal and here illegally and should be treated as such and sent back to whatever place they came from.

Obama can spin this all he wants but its clear he has every interest in giving citizenship to these slimeballs and treat them as well or better than the immigrants who are here legally and operate within the system. Its all about votes people, they will tear up your country to get votes.

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 11:34 AM
So I guess we can deport the mexican anchor babies, now.

Probably not.

No one resents immigrants because of economic conditions. That Obama Leftist BS Spin and they damn sure know it.

What people are fed up with is freaking ILLEGAL immigrants. We shouldn't even refer to them as immigrants at all they are criminal and here illegally and should be treated as such and sent back to whatever place they came from.

Obama can spin this all he wants but its clear he has every interest in giving citizenship to these slimeballs and treat them as well or better than the immigrants who are here legally and operate within the system. Its all about votes people, they will tear up your country to get votes.

Just to be clear you have an issue with illegals that come here just for economic conditions ie..jobs?

The Mad Crapper
07-01-2010, 11:34 AM
No one resents immigrants because of economic conditions. That Obama Leftist BS Spin and they damn sure know it.

What people are fed up with is freaking ILLEGAL immigrants. We shouldn't even refer to them as immigrants at all they are criminal and here illegally and should be treated as such and sent back to whatever place they came from.

Obama can spin this all he wants but its clear he has every interest in giving citizenship to these slimeballs and treat them as well or better than the immigrants who are here legally and operate within the system. Its all about votes people, they will tear up your country to get votes.

The guy is going to start a civil war.

The Mad Crapper
07-01-2010, 11:35 AM
Probably not.





Then it's a matter of birth after all.

chiefsnorth
07-01-2010, 11:36 AM
Exactly. He tries to cloud the issue by blurring legal immigrants, who worked hard to get here, follow the rules, and pull their own weight, and the variety who came here criminally and are largely a drain on society.

There is not one person saying there should be no immigration. People are demanding that illegal immigration be acted upon

Donger
07-01-2010, 11:36 AM
Being an American is a matter of law. Birth plays into that, of course, but I don't see what faith or blood have to do with it.

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 11:40 AM
Then it's a matter of birth after all.

Not really as Donger said it is a matter of law. Donger is an American and wasn't born here.

Anchor babies are constitutionality protected since they were born in the US.

PhillyChiefFan
07-01-2010, 11:45 AM
No one resents immigrants because of economic conditions. That Obama Leftist BS Spin and they damn sure know it.

What people are fed up with is freaking ILLEGAL immigrants.

EXACTLY. They aren't immigrants, they are illegal aliens. And I hate how it is being spun as a race issue. I don't care if they are coming from Mexico or Poland, they are here illegally, end of story.

The race card is the most frustrating weapon in the political toolkit.

HonestChieffan
07-01-2010, 12:00 PM
EXACTLY. They aren't immigrants, they are illegal aliens. And I hate how it is being spun as a race issue. I don't care if they are coming from Mexico or Poland, they are here illegally, end of story.

The race card is the most frustrating weapon in the political toolkit.

A well proven tactic. Divide the country and weaken the ability to oppose by demonizing the opposition under the banner of race or religion.

petegz28
07-01-2010, 12:30 PM
Amnesty is on the way....

fan4ever
07-01-2010, 12:42 PM
Amnesty is on the way....

See Post #2

vailpass
07-01-2010, 12:50 PM
The issue isn't what it means to be American.

The issue is what it means to become an American. Which is to enter through the front door, to abide by all legal requirements for citizenship, to swear to all naturalization oaths.

As usual obama is clouding the issue counting on Americans to be either too dumb or too apathetic to act.

fan4ever
07-01-2010, 01:15 PM
So how likely is it that this is how Obama got the dems to throw themselves on their swords for the healthcare bill? "Pssst...hey, I'll give amnesty to millions of new democrat voters by executive order before the November election and you'll still get keep your seat although you're a total slimball."

Is this way out there or not???

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 01:21 PM
So how likely is it that this is how Obama got the dems to throw themselves on their swords for the healthcare bill? "Pssst...hey, I'll give amnesty to millions of new democrat voters by executive order before the November election and you'll still get keep your seat although you're a total slimball."

Is this way out there or not???

That is way out there. If they did pass a bill before November it would be at least 2-3 years before the amnesty part went into effect.

Donger
07-01-2010, 01:23 PM
So, Obama was fine with ramming through health care without Republican support, but he's not okay with ramming through immigration reform without Republican support?

How come?

fan4ever
07-01-2010, 01:24 PM
That is way out there. If they did pass a bill before November it would be at least 2-3 years before the amnesty part went into effect.

Unless I'm misinformed if he does it by executive order, which I understand he can do, it would take place almost immediately.

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 01:29 PM
Unless I'm misinformed if he does it by executive order, which I understand he can do, it would take place almost immediately.

I don't think he can do it via EO.

Congress is going to have to pass the bill to change the immigration laws.

orange
07-01-2010, 01:42 PM
EXACTLY. They aren't immigrants, they are illegal aliens. And I hate how it is being spun as a race issue. I don't care if they are coming from Mexico or Poland, they are here illegally, end of story.

The race card is the most frustrating weapon in the political toolkit.

A well proven tactic. Divide the country and weaken the ability to oppose by demonizing the opposition under the banner of race or religion.

Operation "person of Hispanic heritage" - an official government program that this website won't even let you spell out.

Nope, it's not about race at all.

Donger
07-01-2010, 01:45 PM
Operation "person of Hispanic heritage" - an official government program that this website won't even let you spell out.

Nope, it's not about race at all.

Hispanic isn't a race.

orange
07-01-2010, 01:48 PM
Hispanic isn't a race.

Argue semantics with BEP. Hating Hispanics is racism.

Hating Italians in the good old days when WE were "greasers" is also racism.

Words mean what they mean when people say them.

Donger
07-01-2010, 01:50 PM
Argue semantics with BEP. Hating Hispanics is racism.

I'm just going off of how the United State's government defines it, and they don't define Hispanic as a race.

Hating Italians in the good old days when WE were "greasers" is also racism.

Words mean what they mean when people say them.


Really? Wow. So, when someone calls me a "limey," they are being racist?

orange
07-01-2010, 01:52 PM
Really? Wow. So, when someone calls me a "limey," they are being racist?

Yes.

Probably just for a joke, these days. It's not a loaded term anymore.

Donger
07-01-2010, 01:54 PM
Yes.

Probably just for a joke, these days. It's not a loaded term anymore.

But, they aren't making fun of my race. They are making fun of my heritage. Race has nothing to do with it. I guess you could call it "countryism" or something, but it isn't racist.

orange
07-01-2010, 01:58 PM
Mainland Chinese are the largest minority in Japan (according to the 2008 statistics as shown above) . Mainland Chinese in particular have been targets of anti-immigrant sentiment along with government, police and media portrayal of them as being likely to commit crime. Indeed, an investigator from the United Nations Commission on Human Rights (UNCHR) said, racism against Koreans and Chinese is deeply rooted in Japan because of history and culture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan


Are Japanese and Chinese different "races?"

The word "racism" is much broader than you're giving it credit for.

Donger
07-01-2010, 01:59 PM
Mainland Chinese are the largest minority in Japan (according to the 2008 statistics as shown above) . Mainland Chinese in particular have been targets of anti-immigrant sentiment along with government, police and media portrayal of them as being likely to commit crime. Indeed, an investigator from the United Nations Commission on Human Rights (UNCHR) said, racism against Koreans and Chinese is deeply rooted in Japan because of history and culture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan


Are Japanese and Chinese different "races?"

The word "racism" is much broader than you're giving it credit for.

No, they are not. I wouldn't argue that the Japanese have had issues with the Koreans or Chinese because of their race at all.

You know, since they are the same race.

orange
07-01-2010, 02:04 PM
And yet, the world uses the word "racism" that way in spite of you.

I don't think your posts here are ever going to change that. ChiefsPlanet just doesn't have the bandwidth.

Donger
07-01-2010, 02:07 PM
And yet, the world uses the word "racism" that way in spite of you.

I don't think your posts here are ever going to change that. ChiefsPlanet just doesn't have the bandwidth.

The world or the UN thingy you posted? No offense, but I don't really care how the UN defines it, considering that they nominate folks like the Iranians as experts on Women's Rights.

orange
07-01-2010, 02:08 PM
White Germans killing white Jews - racism?

The world says "yes." Your Iranians - whom you refuse to agree with - say "no."

Sweet Daddy Hate
07-01-2010, 02:09 PM
Is Mad Crapper agitated? Oh, okay. Just checking!

Donger
07-01-2010, 02:11 PM
White Germans killing white Jews - racism?

The world says "yes."

I wouldn't say that. Ethnic genocide, certainly.

HonestChieffan
07-01-2010, 02:11 PM
Putting criminals and lawbreakers in jail or sending them home regardless of nation of origin is not racism. Unless you have a political motivation to define a country of origin or a language as a race. In that case its ok because you can advance a political objective by doing so.

fan4ever
07-01-2010, 02:16 PM
I don't think he can do it via EO.

Congress is going to have to pass the bill to change the immigration laws.

Looks like he can, or something very much like it.

Senators Challenge Pres. Obama on Rumors of Amnesty Through Executive Actions:

Several Senators have learned of a possible plan by the Obama Administration that would provide a mass Amnesty for the nation's 11-18 million illegal aliens. Led by Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), eight Senators addressed a letter to the President asking for answers to questions about a plan that would allow DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano to provide an amnesty if they can't secure enough votes for a bill in the Senate.

The letter that was sent to Pres. Obama earlier today asks the President for clarification on the use of deferred action or parole for illegal aliens. The executive actions are typically used in special cases and are evaluated on a case-by-case basis, but if 60 votes can't be secured in the Senate to pass a mass Amnesty, the Administration may use the discretionary actions as an alternative.

Sweet Daddy Hate
07-01-2010, 02:19 PM
Several Senators have learned of a possible plan by the Obama Administration that would provide a mass Amnesty for the nation's 11-18 million illegal aliens. Led by Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa),

"Oh Noes! There goes our cheap labor! Amnesty NOW! Amnesty NOW"!

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 02:19 PM
Looks like he can, or something very much like it.

Senators Challenge Pres. Obama on Rumors of Amnesty Through Executive Actions:

Several Senators have learned of a possible plan by the Obama Administration that would provide a mass Amnesty for the nation's 11-18 million illegal aliens. Led by Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), eight Senators addressed a letter to the President asking for answers to questions about a plan that would allow DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano to provide an amnesty if they can't secure enough votes for a bill in the Senate.

The letter that was sent to Pres. Obama earlier today asks the President for clarification on the use of deferred action or parole for illegal aliens. The executive actions are typically used in special cases and are evaluated on a case-by-case basis, but if 60 votes can't be secured in the Senate to pass a mass Amnesty, the Administration may use the discretionary actions as an alternative.

Wow. Thanks that is the first I have heard of that. IMO that would be political suicide if he did that.

Dave Lane
07-01-2010, 02:20 PM
He's right, sort of and partially.

No so you are not an American by birth? get Out!! Down with Donger! Wheres my torches and pitchforks!!

Otter
07-01-2010, 02:20 PM
Amnesty, here we come...by executive order???

Obama is paralyzed on this issue until November as well as a couple others. If a Republican buster comes into congress in November, which it very may well, 90% of them will be coming in with "no amnesty" stance.

All depends on November. Get out there and vote with demanding to known where your guy stands on amnesty or reform or whatever it is they want to call it. Start with getting that floppy labia McCain out of office. They already lost Arlen Specter and a couple other key players.

**** amnesty. We tried it and it didn't work. Never again.

Sweet Daddy Hate
07-01-2010, 02:22 PM
Obama is paralyzed on this issue until November as well as a couple others. If a Republican buster comes into congress in November, which it very may well, 90% of them will be coming in with "no amnesty" stance.

All depends on November. Get out there and vote starting with getting that floppy labia McCain out of office. They already lost Alrlen Spectre and a couple other key players.

**** amnesty. We tried it and it didn't work. Never again.

But...but...we'll have to pay Americans a decent wage!

Otter
07-01-2010, 02:27 PM
But...but...we'll have to pay Americans a decent wage!

Do American's even know how to hang dry wall? How about lay mulch or do construction?

We're so ****ed!

Sweet Daddy Hate
07-01-2010, 02:32 PM
Do American's even know how to hang dry wall? How about lay mulch or do construction?

We're so ****ed!

ROFL

I hear that picking fruit requires a Masters Degree these days! Oh shit; someone's lazy fucking teenager in south Arizona might have to get a summer job and make some money!

Guru
07-01-2010, 02:36 PM
So basically, Obama is saying just bend over and take it America.

BigChiefFan
07-01-2010, 02:38 PM
That's disheartening. It's one thing after another with this guy. Our country is corrupted in a big way.

Sweet Daddy Hate
07-01-2010, 02:38 PM
So basically, Obama is saying just bend over and take it America.

You're just now catching the recurring theme of this decade?

Guru
07-01-2010, 02:40 PM
You're just now catching the recurring theme of this decade?

Hell I caught it during his campaign. He is just less cryptic about it now. Pretty soon he will just say "Get ready to be fucked America."

HonestChieffan
07-01-2010, 02:41 PM
I wonder how much further he will push before people take to the streets. This is not an unemotional issue. Its real. And very real to the people in the border areas of Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico.

Totally ignoring their need for security then going off on this veiled attempt to start the ball rolling toward amnesty could create a backlash that they are unprepared for and would be well advised to avoid.

Granting amnesty does not as a result remove the threat people feel from the drug cartels, the armed mobs of illegals already here or the continued threat to personal safety.

Someone somewhere better wake the Oval Office up before someone takes matters into their own hands.

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 02:43 PM
just for arguments sake, what are the pros and cons of granting amnesty? Anyone here capable of listing both the pros and cons from an unbiased point of view?

Sweet Daddy Hate
07-01-2010, 02:43 PM
Hell I caught it during his campaign. He is just less cryptic about it now. Pretty soon he will just say "Get ready to be fucked America."

Yep, looks like we've went from "fucked with Ivy League ring finger" to "fucked with baseball bat".

Either way, we're always getting fucked. And quite frankly, I'm glad I no longer follow Rush, Savage, Hannity, and FOX because if I did, I'd just be fucking miserable and pissed all the time.

Like Madfuckstick. And who the fuck wants to live like that?

vailpass
07-01-2010, 02:45 PM
just for arguments sake, what are the pros and cons of granting amnesty? Anyone here capable of listing both the pros and cons from an unbiased point of view?

Considering how biased you are do you think you could make a fair evaluation of the facts you request?

BigChiefFan
07-01-2010, 02:47 PM
I heard some interesting comments on the radio earlier. They said something along the lines that Juarez had as many murders as several major U.S. cities combined. They discussed 14 year old girls being gunned down. Politics needs to be set aside, these are American lives dying in our streets and the leader of our country is going against it's own citizens, by backing illegals. I'm shocked at the cavalier attitude.

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 02:48 PM
just for arguments sake, what are the pros and cons of granting amnesty? Anyone here capable of listing both the pros and cons from an unbiased point of view?

To be completely honest amensty is the only way. It would be impossible and downright expensive to try to deport 12 million illegals. It ain't going to happen.

The best way to do this is first make the border as secure as humanly possible, go after businesses that hire illegals and then come up with a reasonable solution for the illegals to become legal.

mikey23545
07-01-2010, 02:51 PM
Well, I think we already knew Obama doesn't think you have to be born on American soil to be American...

Donger
07-01-2010, 02:56 PM
To be completely honest amensty is the only way. It would be impossible and downright expensive to try to deport 12 million illegals. It ain't going to happen.

The best way to do this is first make the border as secure as humanly possible, go after businesses that hire illegals and then come up with a reasonable solution for the illegals to become legal.

As long as that "reasonable solution" includes a fine and a return to the country of origin, I agree.

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 03:06 PM
As long as that "reasonable solution" includes a fine and a return to the country of origin, I agree.

Returning to the country of origin probably isn't going to happen

Donger
07-01-2010, 03:08 PM
Returning to the country of origin probably isn't going to happen

Why not? They got here under their own steam, so they know the way.

Just assume a reciprocal course.

headsnap
07-01-2010, 03:11 PM
Why not? They got here under their own steam, so they know the way.

Just assume a reciprocal course.

it's a lot more difficult to vote for Obama from their country of origin. ;)



more difficult but not impossible...

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 03:14 PM
Why not? They got here under their own steam, so they know the way.

Just assume a reciprocal course.

Well for one thing I doubt any illegal would come forward if that was in place.

I think the plan will be that they will get fined and have to pay back taxes, they will be put at the back of the line and issued temp visas.

vailpass
07-01-2010, 03:17 PM
Well for one thing I doubt any illegal would come forward if that was in place.

I think the plan will be that they will get fined and have to pay back taxes, they will be put at the back of the line and issued temp visas.

Tell you what: you libs give them amnesty, get them to all sign up for it. When obama is out in a couple of years we'll get that list of illegals from you and take it from there.

HonestChieffan
07-01-2010, 03:22 PM
There is really no impediment to sending them home other than the lack of will and backbone required to make it happen. Cost of allowing them to stay and support them, provide social services, drain the education coffers and create huge costs to the states would be far far outweighed by the savings to send them on a greyhound back to Nogales and dump them on their side of the line.

Now the libs and leftys will scream bloody murder and point to the impossibility of the situation. But let the states figure out the method and they will have it underway in no time because the value of a n illegal deported is high and the cost odf allowing them to stay is huge.

Fed will never figure it out and a state can delegate it on through the entire system with each governing body responsible for finding the illegals and loading them up.

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 03:23 PM
Tell you what: you libs give them amnesty, get them to all sign up for it. When obama is out in a couple of years we'll get that list of illegals from you and take it from there.

:rolleyes: The last R administration that you loved did that. Oh wait maybe that was in a spam email I believed. Loser

Donger
07-01-2010, 03:23 PM
Well for one thing I doubt any illegal would come forward if that was in place.

I think the plan will be that they will get fined and have to pay back taxes, they will be put at the back of the line and issued temp visas.

That's on them. People here previously legally (let their visa expire, etc.) have to leave and return to their country of origin in order to gain permanent residency. I don't see why it should be any easier for illegals-from-the-get-go.

Donger
07-01-2010, 03:24 PM
There is really no impediment to sending them home other than the lack of will and backbone required to make it happen. Cost of allowing them to stay and support them, provide social services, drain the education coffers and create huge costs to the states would be far far outweighed by the savings to send them on a greyhound back to Nogales and dump them on their side of the line.

Now the libs and leftys will scream bloody murder and point to the impossibility of the situation. But let the states figure out the method and they will have it underway in no time because the value of a n illegal deported is high and the cost odf allowing them to stay is huge.

Fed will never figure it out and a state can delegate it on through the entire system with each governing body responsible for finding the illegals and loading them up.

Surely folks who care about illegals would be willing to pool together some cash to rent a few thousand Greyhounds, no?

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 03:26 PM
That's on them. People here previously legally (let their visa expire, etc.) have to leave and return to their country of origin in order to gain permanent residency. I don't see why it should be any easier for illegals-from-the-get-go.

I am sure you know that one of the biggest problems is that they aren't leaving once their visas have expired.

mlyonsd
07-01-2010, 03:27 PM
Whatever grand scheme you guys come up with remember you're going to have to run it past Calderon first since he seems to be the guy in charge.

Donger
07-01-2010, 03:28 PM
I am sure you know that one of the biggest problems is that they aren't leaving once their visas have expired.

I'm just telling you the law. If this is what we make people do who were here legally and now want permanent residency, why should if be ANY different with illegals?

HonestChieffan
07-01-2010, 03:29 PM
I am sure you know that one of the biggest problems is that they aren't leaving once their visas have expired.


No shit?

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 03:30 PM
There is really no impediment to sending them home other than the lack of will and backbone required to make it happen. Cost of allowing them to stay and support them, provide social services, drain the education coffers and create huge costs to the states would be far far outweighed by the savings to send them on a greyhound back to Nogales and dump them on their side of the line.

Now the libs and leftys will scream bloody murder and point to the impossibility of the situation. But let the states figure out the method and they will have it underway in no time because the value of a n illegal deported is high and the cost odf allowing them to stay is huge.

Fed will never figure it out and a state can delegate it on through the entire system with each governing body responsible for finding the illegals and loading them up.

First if you think the states are going to do this is just downright laughable. They have no money. They will all claim it is a federal issue and they will need to pay for it.

Second what is your plan to get them to come out and willingly go back?

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 03:30 PM
Considering how biased you are do you think you could make a fair evaluation of the facts you request?

Apparently you don't pay very good attention. You are incredibly biased and I wouldn't expect you to post anything that doesn't favor your opinion. I asked a question so I could take a stance, not listen to your BS.

As of right now i do not favor amnesty. I have my reasons, but I would like to be more educated on the subject. I don't need your incredibly biased tripe you always post here. Looking for someone who can actually see the subject in two different lights.

Donger
07-01-2010, 03:31 PM
Second what is your plan to get them to come out and willingly go back?

A path to citizenship, obviously. If that's something they actually value.

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 03:33 PM
To be completely honest amensty is the only way. It would be impossible and downright expensive to try to deport 12 million illegals. It ain't going to happen.

The best way to do this is first make the border as secure as humanly possible, go after businesses that hire illegals and then come up with a reasonable solution for the illegals to become legal.

Maybe it is. I don't know. Not sure how i feel about that. I think something more along the lines of the DREAM act would be better. Only illegal immigrants that are actually capable of giving back to the community are eligible for citizenship and even they have to earn it first by having 2 years of college or military service and prove to be an outstanding citizen.

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 03:36 PM
I'm just telling you the law. If this is what we make people do who were here legally and now want permanent residency, why should if be ANY different with illegals?

I understand but it is not realistic. Why would an illegal who is not any kind of jeopardy of being caught going to voluntarily out him self and their family to go back home and maybe they will have a chance of coming back. I just don't see it.

That is why it is crucial to secure the border and make it almost impenetrable then we can deal with who is already here. Whatever plan they propose isn't going to work without the border secure.

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 03:37 PM
A path to citizenship, obviously. If that's something they actually value.

what if they don't give a shit? what then?

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 03:38 PM
A path to citizenship, obviously. If that's something they actually value.

Maybe if the path of citizenship didn't travel through Juarez people would be more willing to do it.

Donger
07-01-2010, 03:39 PM
I understand but it is not realistic. Why would an illegal who is not any kind of jeopardy of being caught going to voluntarily out him self and their family to go back home and maybe they will have a chance of coming back. I just don't see it.

That is why it is crucial to secure the border and make it almost impenetrable then we can deal with who is already here. Whatever plan they propose isn't going to work without the border secure.

In order to prove that they really want to be American citizens, of course. I strongly suspect that many of them could care less, as long as they get the benefits of being here.

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 03:39 PM
I understand but it is not realistic. Why would an illegal who is not any kind of jeopardy of being caught going to voluntarily out him self and their family to go back home and maybe they will have a chance of coming back. I just don't see it.

That is why it is crucial to secure the border and make it almost impenetrable then we can deal with who is already here. Whatever plan they propose isn't going to work without the border secure.

This.

This whole debate is pointless when they'll all just come back over.

Donger
07-01-2010, 03:39 PM
what if they don't give a shit? what then?

F*ck them. Why offer them anything?

Donger
07-01-2010, 03:40 PM
Maybe if the path of citizenship didn't travel through Juarez people would be more willing to do it.

I've never been to Mexico, but I'm pretty sure there are other metro areas.

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 03:41 PM
In order to prove that they really want to be American citizens, of course. I strongly suspect that many of them could care less, as long as they get the benefits of being here.

you'd be wrong. Way to generalize. We have kids here that were taken from Mexico and raised here. In their heads, they are American. But you one sided thinkers just wanna throw them back in Mexico when they don't know jack shit about that country, couldn't survive in that country and are basically American. They love this country just as much as any "American".

Yet your solution is to send them to the murder capitol of North America. Brilliant idea.

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 03:44 PM
I've never been to Mexico, but I'm pretty sure there are other metro areas.

Obviously. But when they leave from here, they have to go Juarez to reside for 6-18 months.

Not only is the murder rate ridicuous there, but so is rape.

Donger
07-01-2010, 03:44 PM
you'd be wrong. Way to generalize. We have kids here that were taken from Mexico and raised here. In their heads, they are American. But you one sided thinkers just wanna throw them back in Mexico when they don't know jack shit about that country, couldn't survive in that country and are basically American. They love this country just as much as any "American".

Yet your solution is to send them to the murder capitol of North America. Brilliant idea.

Oh? So you are positing that most illegals really do want to become American citizens?

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 03:45 PM
F*ck them. Why offer them anything?

I am just trying to deal with reality Donger. If I thought it was possible to round up over 12 million illegals and ship them back then I would be all for it but you and I both know it is not possible.

The impact both economically, socially, and politically would be tremendous. You would need a huge army to pull that task off.

Donger
07-01-2010, 03:46 PM
Obviously. But when they leave from here, they have to go Juarez to reside for 6-18 months.

Not only is the murder rate ridicuous there, but so is rape.

So, Juarez is the only place they can go? Tijuana? Mexico City? Acapulco?

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 03:46 PM
This.

This whole debate is pointless when they'll all just come back over.

Yep pretty much

Donger
07-01-2010, 03:48 PM
I am just trying to deal with reality Donger. If I thought it was possible to round up over 12 million illegals and ship them back then I would be all for it but you and I both know it is not possible.

The impact both economically, socially, and politically would be tremendous. You would need a huge army to pull that task off.

It would be possible if they actually valued our citizenship enough. It seems they don't. They came of their own volition; let them go back of their own volition.

HonestChieffan
07-01-2010, 03:50 PM
First if you think the states are going to do this is just downright laughable. They have no money. They will all claim it is a federal issue and they will need to pay for it.

Second what is your plan to get them to come out and willingly go back?


Yu cannot understand the simple concept of the states cost to have them here...the money is at worst a wash and at best a plus for the state and local taxing bodies.

The liberal view is its always easier to pay than it is to fix something. But that is always wrong. You embody the followers on the left who would rather accept a wrong rather than invest in doing what is right. Your attitude and submissive behavior empowers an Obama and allows the government to impose its will on you because you have no fight and no principals on which you can stand up.


Who said the y will willingly go. This isn't recess at kindercare, they will go because law enforcement will make them go. Good god man. Wake up. Criminals are locked up every day and few are asked politely to come to the sheriffs house for tea and cookies so they can discuss jail life.

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 03:50 PM
So, Juarez is the only place they can go? Tijuana? Mexico City? Acapulco?

That's what was told to someone I know by her immigration lawyer. She had two options. Stay here with no rights and continue to be illegal, or go to Juarez for 6-18 mos. Kepe in mind, this girl has been in America since she was 2 weeks old. And she isn't the only case like this.

She would never survive out there. However, she is a perfect candidate for something like the DREAM act once it gets passed

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 03:52 PM
Yu cannot understand the simple concept of the states cost to have them here...the money is at worst a wash and at best a plus for the state and local taxing bodies.

The liberal view is its always easier to pay than it is to fix something. But that is always wrong. You embody the followers on the left who would rather accept a wrong rather than invest in doing what is right. Your attitude and submissive behavior empowers an Obama and allows the government to impose its will on you because you have no fight and no principals on which you can stand up.


Who said the y will willingly go. This isn't recess at kindercare, they will go because law enforcement will make them go. Good god man. Wake up. Criminals are locked up every day and few are asked politely to come to the sheriffs house for tea and cookies so they can discuss jail life.

If money is the issue, then why not support amnesty? Now they're taxed and those millions of people are now putting back into the system. Doesn't cost the states shit. Doesn't cost the feds shit. Everyone stands to gain. What's the draw back?

Honestly? I don't know.

mlyonsd
07-01-2010, 03:54 PM
I am just trying to deal with reality Donger. If I thought it was possible to round up over 12 million illegals and ship them back then I would be all for it but you and I both know it is not possible.

The impact both economically, socially, and politically would be tremendous. You would need a huge army to pull that task off.

What's the reality of what they will cost to be added to all our current entitlements? Health care, social security, medicare.

I'm on record thinking some sort of amnesty was the only answer. Now with things the way they are economically and our brilliant new health care system is in place I'd like the CBO to crunch the numbers again with 12 million illegals added to all of those programs.

Donger
07-01-2010, 03:54 PM
That's what was told to someone I know by her immigration lawyer. She had two options. Stay here with no rights and continue to be illegal, or go to Juarez for 6-18 mos. Kepe in mind, this girl has been in America since she was 2 weeks old. And she isn't the only case like this.

She would never survive out there. However, she is a perfect candidate for something like the DREAM act once it gets passed

We've been over this girl, I think. Her mother should definitely have to go back. The girl? I don't know. Maybe grant some waiver, or this DREAM act.

Donger
07-01-2010, 03:56 PM
What's the draw back?

Honestly? I don't know.

You mean besides smacking the millions of people who immigrated legally across the face (not to mention the millions who are waiting to enter legally) as well as rewarding breaking our country's immigration laws?

Nothing.

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 03:58 PM
We've been over this girl, I think. Her mother should definitely have to go back. The girl? I don't know. Maybe grant some waiver, or this DREAM act.

I agree. I think the mother should have to go back. The problem i find with some of the opinions here is that everyone wants to lump "this girl" and people like her with the guy in front of Home Depot. Illegal immigration is much broader than that and so many narrow minded people just want to lump all immigration issues together.

They are not the same, and it's not fair to say "round 'em all up, throw em on a bus and GTFO!"

I believe that the guy at Home Depot or Pablo the lawn mower man shouldn't just be givin amnesty. But there should be ways for people like this girl to gain citizenship

Donger
07-01-2010, 04:00 PM
I agree. I think the mother should have to go back. The problem i find with some of the opinions here is that everyone wants to lump "this girl" and people like her with the guy in front of Home Depot. Illegal immigration is much broader than that and so many narrow minded people just want to lump all immigration issues together.

They are not the same, and it's not fair to say "round 'em all up, throw em on a bus and GTFO!"

I believe that the guy at Home Depot or Pablo the lawn mower man shouldn't just be givin amnesty. But there should be ways for people like this girl to gain citizenship

I think that most Americans would be willing to give some slack to cases such as hers. From the sound of it, she has fully assimilated into our society.

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 04:02 PM
You mean besides smacking the millions of people who immigrated legally across the face (not to mention the millions who are waiting to enter legally) as well as rewarding breaking our country's immigration laws?

Nothing.

Seriously, we have bigger problems than hurting someone's feelings. We have a real issue to fix. Those people will get over it.

You're second point is valid. But which option is more cost effective and more realistic?

Personally, i'm leaning towards Amnesty because no one else can offer a real good realistic solution. However, i would not support it until those borders are absolutely secured. Otherwise we have a huge influx of people crossing to gain amnesty.

It would never work until those borders are secure.

vailpass
07-01-2010, 04:02 PM
:rolleyes: The last R administration that you loved did that. Oh wait maybe that was in a spam email I believed. Loser

I haven't loved an administration in a long time. However the current administration is the first that has made me laugh.
Loser? Tell me Dirk, how do you define 'loser'?

vailpass
07-01-2010, 04:04 PM
Apparently you don't pay very good attention. You are incredibly biased and I wouldn't expect you to post anything that doesn't favor your opinion. I asked a question so I could take a stance, not listen to your BS.

As of right now i do not favor amnesty. I have my reasons, but I would like to be more educated on the subject. I don't need your incredibly biased tripe you always post here. Looking for someone who can actually see the subject in two different lights.

you'd be wrong. Way to generalize. We have kids here that were taken from Mexico and raised here. In their heads, they are American. But you one sided thinkers just wanna throw them back in Mexico when they don't know jack shit about that country, couldn't survive in that country and are basically American. They love this country just as much as any "American".

Yet your solution is to send them to the murder capitol of North America. Brilliant idea.

No bias on your part though right?

Donger
07-01-2010, 04:04 PM
Seriously, we have bigger problems than hurting someone's feelings. We have a real issue to fix. Those people will get over it.

You're second point is valid. But which option is more cost effective and more realistic?

Personally, i'm leaning towards Amnesty because no one else can offer a real good realistic solution. However, i would not support it until those borders are absolutely secured. Otherwise we have a huge influx of people crossing to gain amnesty.

It would never work until those borders are secure.

Yeah, pesky laws really should just be ignored.

I've given a realistic solution. They response to it has been, "Yeah, but they won't do that."

Okay, f*ck 'em then.

How easy should we make it? Raffle tickets?

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 04:10 PM
Yu cannot understand the simple concept of the states cost to have them here...the money is at worst a wash and at best a plus for the state and local taxing bodies.

The liberal view is its always easier to pay than it is to fix something. But that is always wrong. You embody the followers on the left who would rather accept a wrong rather than invest in doing what is right. Your attitude and submissive behavior empowers an Obama and allows the government to impose its will on you because you have no fight and no principals on which you can stand up.


Who said the y will willingly go. This isn't recess at kindercare, they will go because law enforcement will make them go. Good god man. Wake up. Criminals are locked up every day and few are asked politely to come to the sheriffs house for tea and cookies so they can discuss jail life.

:rolleyes: Right hcf. That is why several years ago (long before I even knew Obama existed)I put my immigration plan on here so everyone could see and it hasn't changed ever.

1. Put 20,000-40,000 military troops on the border
2. Stop all legal immigration for 5 years so we can get a handle on who is here
3. Enforce the current immigration laws on the book especially the one about business paying $100,000 fine\illegal

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 04:13 PM
I haven't loved an administration in a long time. However the current administration is the first that has made me laugh.
Loser? Tell me Dirk, how do you define 'loser'?

Anyone that falls for a spam email then laughs at others for not believing it.

Seriously though if you think the R can do it better why didn't they do it for the last 30 years? And why did the R's favorite POTUS give blanket amnesty to illegals.

I am not impressed.

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 04:13 PM
No bias on your part though right?

The difference Vail is that I can understand that not Illegals are the same, unlike you. I believe that there should be an answer that does not discriminate and gives people like this girl a chance and a life she deserves.

I could give two fucks about that 45 y/o man who came across the boarder illegally. For the most part, i agree with most of you on here regarding them

But these millions of kids who did not choose to come here, who are an integrated part of American society, who are raised and know nothing but what it is to be an American, who can be a functioning part of society and who want to live the American Life style should be given an opportunity to do so that does not require them to be taken away from all they have ever known and shipped to a place that they know nothing of and could never survive in.

As of right now those kids have two choices. Stay here and waste away with no ability to do anything with your life, become a further drain on society, or go to a country you know nothing of and are in an incredibly high danger of being raped, murdered and discriminated against.

You can't just lump these kids together with Home Depot man, throw them on a Bus and say, "nice knowing ya".

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 04:15 PM
:rolleyes: Right hcf. That is why several years ago (long before I even knew Obama existed)I put my immigration plan on here so everyone could see and it hasn't changed ever.

1. Put 20,000-40,000 military troops on the border
2. Stop all legal immigration for 5 years so we can get a handle on who is here
3. Enforce the current immigration laws on the book especially the one about business paying $100,000 fine\illegal
4. Pass the DREAM Act

And I think you're dead on.

Donger
07-01-2010, 04:15 PM
The difference Vail is that I can understand that not Illegals are the same, unlike you. I believe that there should be an answer that does not discriminate and gives people like this girl a chance and a life she deserves.

I could give two ****s about that 45 y/o man who came across the boarder illegally. For the most part, i agree with most of you on here regarding them

But these millions of kids who did not choose to come here, who are an integrated part of American society, who are raised and know nothing but what it is to be an American, who can be a functioning part of society and who want to live the American Life style should be given an opportunity to do so that does not require them to be taken away from all they have ever known and shipped to a place that they know nothing of and could never survive in.

As of right now those kids have two choices. Stay here and waste away with no ability to do anything with your life, become a further drain on society, or go to a country you know nothing of and are in an incredibly high danger of being raped, murdered and discriminated against.

You can't just lump these kids together with Home Depot man, throw them on a Bus and say, "nice knowing ya".

I doubt that there are anywhere near millions of such kids.

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 04:17 PM
Yeah, pesky laws really should just be ignored.

I've given a realistic solution. They response to it has been, "Yeah, but they won't do that."

Okay, f*ck 'em then.

How easy should we make it? Raffle tickets?

What is your hang up exactly? U mad because your parents did it legally? Like i said, im not really in favor of amnesty because frankly, if you cant become part of our culture, you shouldn't be here. But rounding everyone up on a bus and shipping out 12 Million people will never work either.

HonestChieffan
07-01-2010, 04:21 PM
:rolleyes: Right hcf. That is why several years ago (long before I even knew Obama existed)I put my immigration plan on here so everyone could see and it hasn't changed ever.

1. Put 20,000-40,000 military troops on the border
2. Stop all legal immigration for 5 years so we can get a handle on who is here
3. Enforce the current immigration laws on the book especially the one about business paying $100,000 fine\illegal

and as then I think you are fundamentally right but you don't finish the issue by getting rid of these malcontents as a normal and regular part of law enforcement. Grow som balls and stand up for the country and pack their asses out.

Donger
07-01-2010, 04:23 PM
What is your hang up exactly? U mad because your parents did it legally? Like i said, im not really in favor of amnesty because frankly, if you cant become part of our culture, you shouldn't be here. But rounding everyone up on a bus and shipping out 12 Million people will never work either.

Sure, I take it personally.

We deport about 500,000 illegals per year now. I wouldn't mind my tax money being spent on increasing that.

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 04:24 PM
and as then I think you are fundamentally right but you don't finish the issue by getting rid of these malcontents as a normal and regular part of law enforcement. Grow som balls and stand up for the country and pack their asses out.

And how would you go about "rounding 'em all up"? Just curious? Do you think it would be cake or something? How is a state like California going to pay for all of this?

All i hear is round 'em up and ship 'em out. But how? Do you have a well thought out idea that would make this happen?

Sweet Daddy Hate
07-01-2010, 04:24 PM
Suddenly, the Clinton 90's aren't so bad eh boys?

Yep; get all prosperous and then have plenty of time to do stupid shit like impeaching a President for fucking the fat girl.

Yay Conservatism! You guys really made this Country better, and that was the first step. You RULE, BRAH!

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 04:25 PM
Sure, I take it personally.

We deport about 500,000 illegals per year now. I wouldn't mind my tax money being spent on increasing that.

And how many come back in? Like I said, pointless until they secure the boarders.

Donger
07-01-2010, 04:26 PM
And how many come back in? Like I said, pointless until they secure the boarders.

Obama disagrees with you. He wants a "comprehensive approach." Oh, and our border(s) are really big and stuff.

Otter
07-01-2010, 04:45 PM
What is your hang up exactly? U mad because your parents did it legally? Like i said, im not really in favor of amnesty because frankly, if you cant become part of our culture, you shouldn't be here. But rounding everyone up on a bus and shipping out 12 Million people will never work either.

There's an exodus of illegals from Arizona and it had nothing to do rounding anyone up and putting them on a bus. Please stop with this, these people weren't rounded up on a bus and brought to the USA.

They came here for a reason; take away that reason like Arizona is doing and you don't need a bus.

So can we stop the "rounding them up" bullshit?

fan4ever
07-01-2010, 04:49 PM
On the topic of becoming a citizen; from what I've seen, and I've lived in AZ for 42 years, most of the illegal immigrants don't care about being a citizen, are proud of their Mexican heritage, and pretty much come here to work and live and send some of their money home. I don't know why a "workers pass" program wouldn't work. Those interested could come and work, not bring their families while making more anchor babies (like to see the citizen birth repealed) and be taxed on their income...no S.S. and such taken out of their paychecks, since they'll not be in the system, leaving more money for them to spend where they like and for sending back home.

As far as deporting, they got here by attrition, send them home that way. When they break the law and are discovered as illegals, send them home (with a secure border). I don't believe in rounding them up...not the smart route and really not realistic at all.

fan4ever
07-01-2010, 04:50 PM
Obama disagrees with you. He wants a "comprehensive approach." Oh, and our border(s) are really big and stuff.

I've noticed that whole "Yes we can" battle cry is absent when addressing job creation and patroling the border.

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 04:51 PM
There's an exodus of illegals from Arizona and it had nothing to do rounding anyone up and putting them on a bus. Please stop with this, these people weren't rounded up on a bus and brought to the USA.

They came here for a reason; take away that reason like Arizona is doing and you don't need a bus.

So can we stop the "rounding them up" bullshit?

Don't be mad at me, im just quoting what's been said in here. TBH, i really don't care how it's done as long as it's well thought out and doesn't discriminate and gives people a chance to deserve to be here to be here.

Im simply asking, how do you round up 12 Million people. That's what im being told has to happen. Something wrong with me asking?

BigChiefFan
07-01-2010, 04:51 PM
To be completely honest amensty is the only way. It would be impossible and downright expensive to try to deport 12 million illegals. It ain't going to happen.

The best way to do this is first make the border as secure as humanly possible, go after businesses that hire illegals and then come up with a reasonable solution for the illegals to become legal.



Disagreed...

Everytime an illegal commits a crime in the USA deport them. If they are caught again or commited a henious crime in the first place, send them to an INTERNATIONAL prison and bill Mexico(and other violating countries) for each of it's citizens that violate these actions. In other words, put the heat on the violating country's through monetary means.

Secure the southern border-think about how many jobs that would create. Win-win, especially in this economic climate.

Mexico has harsh laws against immigration, but we are critisized by their government and held to a DIFFERENT STANDARD. Their out of their minds. Hypoocrisy at it's finest. You seem level-headed, I don't know how you can side with ILLEGALS against your own countrymen.

I'm all for immigrants, but doing it ILLEGALLY, is beyond comprehension for any type of justification in my book.

The Irish, Germans, Chinese, etc... came here the RIGHT WAY and became PART of the fabric of society. They integrated into the system. The new illegals obviously, don't bother with the laws of the land, thus showing them as unworthy of integrating into society as civic-minded citizens. We can't reward bad behavior that's insanity.

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 04:54 PM
On the topic of becoming a citizen; from what I've seen, and I've lived in AZ for 42 years, most of the illegal immigrants don't care about being a citizen, are proud of their Mexican heritage, and pretty much come here to work and live and send some of their money home. I don't know why a "workers pass" program wouldn't work. Those interested could come and work, not bring their families while making more anchor babies (like to see the citizen birth repealed) and be taxed on their income...no S.S. and such taken out of their paychecks, since they'll not be in the system, leaving more money for them to spend where they like and for sending back home.

As far as deporting, they got here by attrition, send them home that way. When they break the law and are discovered as illegals, send them home (with a secure border). I don't believe in rounding them up...not the smart route and really not realistic at all.

And I agree, those people shouldn't be here. But we shouldn't group those people with the ones who basically are already integrated and are proud to be in America and want to be considered and American Citizen. You know, the ones who root for America during the world Cup?

Otter
07-01-2010, 04:55 PM
Don't be mad at me, im just quoting what's been said in here. TBH, i really don't care how it's done as long as it's well thought out and doesn't discriminate and gives people a chance to deserve to be here to be here.

Im simply asking, how do you round up 12 Million people. That's what im being told has to happen. Something wrong with me asking?

There never will be a "round up". You make life worse for them than it would be in their legal country like any sane approach would.

When you give amnesty to your girl because she was a kid it encourages more parents to bring over their young kids. You're feeding strays again. Set up a system but DO NOT REWARD ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR if you expect it to stop.

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 05:02 PM
There never will be a "round up". You make life worse for them than it would be in their legal country like any sane approach would.

When you give amnesty to your girl because she was a kid it encourages more parents to bring over their young kids. You're feeding strays again. Set up a system but DO NOT REWARD ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR if you expect it to stop.

First of, it's not amnesty. Maybe you should read the Act. And in no way does it encourage the parents to come over here. That's just talk coming out of your ass, dude.

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 05:05 PM
Disagreed...

Everytime an illegal commits a crime in the USA deport them. If they are caught again or commited a henious crime in the first place, send them to an INTERNATIONAL prison and bill Mexico(and other violating countries) for each of it's citizens that violate these actions. In other words, put the heat on the violating country's through monetary means.

Secure the southern border-think about how many jobs that would create. Win-win, especially in this economic climate.

Mexico has harsh laws against immigration, but we are critisized by their government and held to a DIFFERENT STANDARD. Their out of their minds. Hypoocrisy at it's finest. You seem level-headed, I don't know how you can side with ILLEGALS against your own countrymen.

I'm all for immigrants, but doing it ILLEGALLY, is beyond comprehension for any type of justification in my book.

The Irish, Germans, Chinese, etc... came here the RIGHT WAY and became PART of the fabric of society. They integrated into the system. The new illegals obviously, don't bother with the laws of the land, thus showing them as unworthy of integrating into society as civic-minded citizens. We can't reward bad behavior that's insanity.

No one in this thread is "siding with illegals against their own countrymen". Just simply trying to find an answer that makes the most sense and is the most realistic. We have a problem that has been brewing for decades and we are finally trying to secure the boarders. Now what do we do with the 12 million here? trying to deport them all could take years and may not even be effective.

Donger
07-01-2010, 05:07 PM
No one in this thread is "siding with illegals against their own countrymen". Just simply trying to find an answer that makes the most sense and is the most realistic. We have a problem that has been brewing for decades and we are finally trying to secure the boarders. Now what do we do with the 12 million here? trying to deport them all could take years and may not even be effective.

I'm fine with it taking years. ANd, if the border is secured at the same time, it would be highly effective.

fan4ever
07-01-2010, 05:09 PM
And I agree, those people shouldn't be here. But we shouldn't group those people with the ones who basically are already integrated and are proud to be in America and want to be considered and American Citizen. You know, the ones who root for America during the world Cup?

It is complex...but how do you distinguish? Who's gonna say "I'm here for the perks"?

Many legal Mexican/Americans here in AZ are irritated with the illegal immigration issue also...but unfortunately get very little air time and get to experience much more of the negative impact; crime for example. A very large percentage of the crime in the Hispanic community is focused upon itself.

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 05:11 PM
I'm fine with it taking years. ANd, if the border is secured at the same time, it would be highly effective.

Im not opposed to it. I came in this thread seeing what ideas people had.

Lets pretend our borders are secure and no one is getting over here.

So, lets say it takes 10-15 years to really start getting those numbers down. How much money would that cost? Who is paying for it?

Now lets say they grant amnesty. How much money would that cost and how much money would we recover from these 12 million people now that we are taxing their asses?

So what's the cost difference between a 10-15 year war on immigration in which we are recovering no money and having no illegals and taxing their asses?

Just trying to see which makes the most sense here.

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 05:16 PM
It is complex...but how do you distinguish? Who's gonna say "I'm here for the perks"?

Many legal Mexican/Americans here in AZ are irritated with the illegal immigration issue also...but unfortunately get very little air time and get to experience much more of the negative impact; crime for example. A very large percentage of the crime in the Hispanic community is focused upon itself.

DREAM ACT. IMO, it's perfect.

First off, we don't want the 45 y/o day laborer here who doesn't speak a lick of english. He's automatically disqualified for citizenship.

Secondly, we don't want low-life criminals either. DREAM requires you to be an outstanding citizen and have no criminal record. So, they're disqualified.

The ACT rewards kids who have been here for at least 5 years, have been here since before the age of 15, completed high school AND 2 years of college or Military service. If they do not finish those 2 years of school or service, they get sent packing too. It forces you to integrate and be a productive American. We keep the ones who can contribute, ditch the ones that are a drain. It's on them to figure out if they are productive or a leach.

That's what we want for all American's ideally right?

Donger
07-01-2010, 05:21 PM
Im not opposed to it. I came in this thread seeing what ideas people had.

Lets pretend our borders are secure and no one is getting over here.

So, lets say it takes 10-15 years to really start getting those numbers down. How much money would that cost? Who is paying for it?

Now lets say they grant amnesty. How much money would that cost and how much money would we recover from these 12 million people now that we are taxing their asses?

So what's the cost difference between a 10-15 year war on immigration in which we are recovering no money and having no illegals and taxing their asses?

Just trying to see which makes the most sense here.

It would probably cost less to release all the prisoners in our prisons rather than continue to house and feed them, too.

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 05:23 PM
It would probably cost less to release all the prisoners in our prisons rather than continue to house and feed them, too.

Seriously Donger? That has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Stop deflecting.

Donger
07-01-2010, 05:26 PM
Seriously Donger? That has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Stop deflecting.

You brought up cost.

vailpass
07-01-2010, 05:30 PM
Anyone that falls for a spam email then laughs at others for not believing it.

Seriously though if you think the R can do it better why didn't they do it for the last 30 years? And why did the R's favorite POTUS give blanket amnesty to illegals.

I am not impressed.

What the hell are you talking about? And why the emotional outbursts? Maybe you took something I said the wrong way?

Detoxing
07-01-2010, 05:33 PM
You brought up cost.

Are we going to have this discussion or are you seriously trying to compare it to releasing prisoners?

Say it out loud Donger, you might see how lame the comparison is that you are trying to make.

vailpass
07-01-2010, 05:38 PM
The difference Vail is that I can understand that not Illegals are the same, unlike you. I believe that there should be an answer that does not discriminate and gives people like this girl a chance and a life she deserves.

I could give two ****s about that 45 y/o man who came across the boarder illegally. For the most part, i agree with most of you on here regarding them

But these millions of kids who did not choose to come here, who are an integrated part of American society, who are raised and know nothing but what it is to be an American, who can be a functioning part of society and who want to live the American Life style should be given an opportunity to do so that does not require them to be taken away from all they have ever known and shipped to a place that they know nothing of and could never survive in.

As of right now those kids have two choices. Stay here and waste away with no ability to do anything with your life, become a further drain on society, or go to a country you know nothing of and are in an incredibly high danger of being raped, murdered and discriminated against.

You can't just lump these kids together with Home Depot man, throw them on a Bus and say, "nice knowing ya".

Children often bear the consequences of their parent's wrong decisions. If they want to make an "express lane" for illegals already in the US who have kids here that's fine with me. Make their waiting period shorter but still long enough to do thorough criminal background checks on each family member. Subject them to additional tax penalties for each child. Mandatory passing of English exams prior to granting them temporary citizenship. Give them the option of staying together as a family as long as they are willing to pay the price.

fan4ever
07-01-2010, 05:45 PM
DREAM ACT. IMO, it's perfect.

First off, we don't want the 45 y/o day laborer here who doesn't speak a lick of english. He's automatically disqualified for citizenship.

Secondly, we don't want low-life criminals either. DREAM requires you to be an outstanding citizen and have no criminal record. So, they're disqualified.

The ACT rewards kids who have been here for at least 5 years, have been here since before the age of 15, completed high school AND 2 years of college or Military service. If they do not finish those 2 years of school or service, they get sent packing too. It forces you to integrate and be a productive American. We keep the ones who can contribute, ditch the ones that are a drain. It's on them to figure out if they are productive or a leach.

That's what we want for all American's ideally right?

So what about the ones that don't qualify? They get to stay too, right? Would EVERY foreigner who wanted citizenship be eligible for this? If yes, we'd have to have a maximum number of candidates or we'd be over run...hence the whole issue of "I want to come now". And when it's time to send them home, we're going to go around rounding them up? Not so sure.

fan4ever
07-01-2010, 05:47 PM
Children often bear the consequences of their parent's wrong decisions. If they want to make an "express lane" for illegals already in the US who have kids here that's fine with me. Make their waiting period shorter but still long enough to do thorough criminal background checks on each family member. Subject them to additional tax penalties for each child. Mandatory passing of English exams prior to granting them temporary citizenship. Give them the option of staying together as a family as long as they are willing to pay the price.

Our Sheriff Joe, who I'm no huge fan of, was arresting the illegal dad of 5 kids a couple of weeks ago while his citizen wife screamed at Arpaio about her children losing their daddy. A reporter asked him "Don't you feel sorry for these children" and he responded "I feel sorry for the children of everyone I arrest".

Sweet Daddy Hate
07-01-2010, 05:53 PM
Our Sheriff Joe, who I'm no huge fan of, was arresting the illegal dad of 5 kids a couple of weeks ago while his citizen wife screamed at Arpaio about her children losing their daddy. A reporter asked him "Don't you feel sorry for these children" and he responded "I feel sorry for the children of everyone I arrest".

That guy is such a dick-sandwich. :shake:

googlegoogle
07-01-2010, 05:56 PM
Was Obama born in the USA?

fan4ever
07-01-2010, 05:59 PM
That guy is such a dick-sandwich. :shake:

You know he started out OK several years ago but has become such an obnoxious media whore and John Wayne wannabe it's pathetic.

notorious
07-01-2010, 06:09 PM
Force Illegals to listen to Sarah Palin. There would be so many Illegals swimming the Rio Grande to get BACK to Mexico there wouldn't be any water left in the river.

Donger
07-01-2010, 06:43 PM
Are we going to have this discussion or are you seriously trying to compare it to releasing prisoners?

Say it out loud Donger, you might see how lame the comparison is that you are trying to make.

Why are they prisoners?

Anyway, I have no problem paying for the enforcement of our laws. "It's too expensive" is not a valid excuse for me. If it is for you, fine.

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 06:48 PM
What the hell are you talking about? And why the emotional outbursts? Maybe you took something I said the wrong way?

It was in response to this post

Tell you what: you libs give them amnesty, get them to all sign up for it. When obama is out in a couple of years we'll get that list of illegals from you and take it from there.

You make it sound like this is all Obama's fault, part of it is, but the largest part goes to Reagan who gave blanket amnesty to all illegals, Bush 1, Clinton, and W for doing nada. Republicans and conservatives have equally been complicit in ignoring illegal immigration so this idea that once Obama is out the right will fix it is silly IMO.

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 06:51 PM
and as then I think you are fundamentally right but you don't finish the issue by getting rid of these malcontents as a normal and regular part of law enforcement. Grow som balls and stand up for the country and pack their asses out.

I just don't think it is humanly possible so we will agree to disagree on this part.

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 06:56 PM
Disagreed...

Everytime an illegal commits a crime in the USA deport them. If they are caught again or commited a henious crime in the first place, send them to an INTERNATIONAL prison and bill Mexico(and other violating countries) for each of it's citizens that violate these actions. In other words, put the heat on the violating country's through monetary means.

Secure the southern border-think about how many jobs that would create. Win-win, especially in this economic climate.

Mexico has harsh laws against immigration, but we are critisized by their government and held to a DIFFERENT STANDARD. Their out of their minds. Hypoocrisy at it's finest. You seem level-headed, I don't know how you can side with ILLEGALS against your own countrymen.

I'm all for immigrants, but doing it ILLEGALLY, is beyond comprehension for any type of justification in my book.

The Irish, Germans, Chinese, etc... came here the RIGHT WAY and became PART of the fabric of society. They integrated into the system. The new illegals obviously, don't bother with the laws of the land, thus showing them as unworthy of integrating into society as civic-minded citizens. We can't reward bad behavior that's insanity.

I am not siding with illegals and I am all for deporting any kind of illegals when caught.

Obama talked about the early immigrants and the picture isn't pretty.

Now, we can’t forget that this process of immigration and eventual inclusion has often been painful. Each new wave of immigrants has generated fear and resentments towards newcomers, particularly in times of economic upheaval. Our founding was rooted in the notion that America was unique as a place of refuge and freedom for, in Thomas Jefferson’s words, “oppressed humanity.” But the ink on our Constitution was barely dry when, amidst conflict, Congress passed the Alien and Sedition Acts, which placed harsh restrictions of those suspected of having foreign allegiances. A century ago, immigrants from Ireland, Italy, Poland, other European countries were routinely subjected to rank discrimination and ugly stereotypes. Chinese immigrants were held in detention and deported from Angel Island in the San Francisco Bay. They didn’t even get to come in.

HonestChieffan
07-01-2010, 07:37 PM
And how would you go about "rounding 'em all up"? Just curious? Do you think it would be cake or something? How is a state like California going to pay for all of this?

All i hear is round 'em up and ship 'em out. But how? Do you have a well thought out idea that would make this happen?

one at a time. Its not that hard really. You have the cops doing their job, the Immigration service, employment people...we have a ton of government agencies...you find an illegal. you arrest them and you pack em off. California can afford to do it since they are paying for the support already. For every one you send back you save even more.

HonestChieffan
07-01-2010, 07:42 PM
I just don't think it is humanly possible so we will agree to disagree on this part.

You are great on the soft part, you just cannot deal with the tough part.

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 07:43 PM
one at a time. Its not that hard really. You have the cops doing their job, the Immigration service, employment people...we have a ton of government agencies...you find an illegal. you arrest them and you pack em off. California can afford to do it since they are paying for the support already. For every one you send back you save even more.

Apparently it is pretty hard because we do that already and it isn't working.

dirk digler
07-01-2010, 07:45 PM
You are great on the soft part, you just cannot deal with the tough part.

Yeah because militarizing the border, stopping all legal immigration and being extremely heavy handed with businesses is the soft part. Give me a break hcf. If we did all that we wouldn't have illegals in the first place.

The Mad Crapper
07-01-2010, 07:46 PM
TEXOARKLA: Closer to reality than you think.

ROFL

Frankie
07-01-2010, 07:47 PM
Being An American Not A Matter Of "Blood Or Birth"

So are yo saying being an American is a matter of blood?

The Mad Crapper
07-01-2010, 07:48 PM
So are yo saying being an American is a matter of blood?

Birth. Although you can be naturalized.

Any idiot knows this (even Obama).

The Mad Crapper
07-02-2010, 08:03 AM
I like this one: "For the first time, we've begun screening 100 percent of southbound rail shipments."

That's right, southbound, as in from the United States to Mexico.

As if that's how 11 million illegals got here.


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/straight_talk_is_alien_to_prez_u4GqK1IZoIdcEEgCRwuLcP#ixzz0sX8lY1SY

Detoxing
07-02-2010, 08:58 AM
So what about the ones that don't qualify? They get to stay too, right? Would EVERY foreigner who wanted citizenship be eligible for this? If yes, we'd have to have a maximum number of candidates or we'd be over run...hence the whole issue of "I want to come now". And when it's time to send them home, we're going to go around rounding them up? Not so sure.

The ones that don't qualify don't get to stay. They don't deserve because first off, we don't need another countries criminals, and secondly, we don't need leaches. We'll be hard pressed to just export 12 Million illegals. But, if we can lower that number down by giving those who deserve a chance an actual chance, it'll decrease the number of non-educated, relatively worthless immigrants. It'll take time, but the country would slowly weed out the ones who don't belong and force the rest to have a college education.

Assuming the borders are secured, of course.

Detoxing
07-02-2010, 09:00 AM
Children often bear the consequences of their parent's wrong decisions. If they want to make an "express lane" for illegals already in the US who have kids here that's fine with me. Make their waiting period shorter but still long enough to do thorough criminal background checks on each family member. Subject them to additional tax penalties for each child. Mandatory passing of English exams prior to granting them temporary citizenship. Give them the option of staying together as a family as long as they are willing to pay the price.

I don't see anything wrong with that.

Detoxing
07-02-2010, 09:01 AM
Why are they prisoners?

Anyway, I have no problem paying for the enforcement of our laws. "It's too expensive" is not a valid excuse for me. If it is for you, fine.

I never said it was an excuse. Where did you get that from?

I said which would be more effective and better for our economy? Then you came with some retarded ass prisoner comparison.

Donger
07-02-2010, 09:08 AM
I never said it was an excuse. Where did you get that from?

I said which would be more effective and better for our economy? Then you came with some retarded ass prisoner comparison.

I didn't say that you did. I wrote: ""It's too expensive" is not a valid excuse for me. If it is for you, fine."

As to your other paragraph, I already told you that I don't care. Laws should be enforced, even if there are economically-friendly alternatives. Hence, my releasing prisoners from jail because it would be cheaper than feeding and housing them comment.

alnorth
07-02-2010, 09:25 AM
Apparently it is pretty hard because we do that already and it isn't working.

Sending the majority of illegals home is not hard, we just lack the political will. Require the use of e-verify. Impose horrifying fines and jail sentences for employers who knowingly hire illegals or refuse to use e-verify and "unknowingly" hire illegals. Basically make it next to impossible to find work, and they will self-deport.

As for feeling sorry for illegals, what do you tell people around the world who wait 10, 15 years to get in legally? "hah, you sucker! Should have gotten in years ago and hide until amnesty! Have fun waiting another 5-10 years!"

I don't care if it is hard or expensive, we can not reward people who invaded our country illegally IN ANY WAY WHATSOVER, over those who patiently waited their turn. Those people would be glad to "pay a fine" and "learn english". It is simply morally wrong to grant a 3rd freaking amnesty.

For that matter, we need to pass laws making it clear that being born in this country doesnt automatically confer citizenship like nearly every other nation in the world. Some say this requires a constitutional amendment, but that hasn't really been tested, there is an argument that they are not "subject to our jurisdiction", but to the jurisdiction of their parent's home country.

Otter
07-02-2010, 09:42 AM
The ones that don't qualify don't get to stay. They don't deserve because first off, we don't need another countries criminals, and secondly, we don't need leaches. We'll be hard pressed to just export 12 Million illegals. But, if we can lower that number down by giving those who deserve a chance an actual chance, it'll decrease the number of non-educated, relatively worthless immigrants. It'll take time, but the country would slowly weed out the ones who don't belong and force the rest to have a college education.

Assuming the borders are secured, of course.

We don't need people that feel they're above the law. Period.

dirk digler
07-02-2010, 09:54 AM
Sending the majority of illegals home is not hard, we just lack the political will. Require the use of e-verify. Impose horrifying fines and jail sentences for employers who knowingly hire illegals or refuse to use e-verify and "unknowingly" hire illegals. Basically make it next to impossible to find work, and they will self-deport.

As for feeling sorry for illegals, what do you tell people around the world who wait 10, 15 years to get in legally? "hah, you sucker! Should have gotten in years ago and hide until amnesty! Have fun waiting another 5-10 years!"

I don't care if it is hard or expensive, we can not reward people who invaded our country illegally IN ANY WAY WHATSOVER, over those who patiently waited their turn. Those people would be glad to "pay a fine" and "learn english". It is simply morally wrong to grant a 3rd freaking amnesty.

For that matter, we need to pass laws making it clear that being born in this country doesnt automatically confer citizenship like nearly every other nation in the world. Some say this requires a constitutional amendment, but that hasn't really been tested, there is an argument that they are not "subject to our jurisdiction", but to the jurisdiction of their parent's home country.

I don't know if we have a law on the books requiring e-verify but we have the rest of those laws and they aren't enforced by either R's or D's. Why is that? Lack of political will is probably some of that but also it is going to come with a huge cost to businesses and the economy as a whole.

Also I don't know where you are getting that I feel sorry for illegals I have never once stated that anywhere.

Ebolapox
07-02-2010, 10:08 AM
this could go both ways; if they're legal, they have to pay taxes into the system. they no longer will be a COMPLETE drain on the system.

Detoxing
07-02-2010, 10:17 AM
We don't need people that feel they're above the law. Period.

What are you talking about?

The Mad Crapper
07-02-2010, 10:27 AM
Only a tyrant masquerading as president could hint at his goal for blanket amnesty during the July 4th weekend.

Obama’s messages to his own people always come in black-edged envelopes. He wanted a HealthCare Bill that would be signed, sealed and delivered on Christmas Eve. Having failed, he went on to deliver the bill one week before Palm Sunday, and has been gloating ever since.

Not for Obama to hurl the wrecking ball at America any day of the year when symbolism can add so much more to the sting of pain.

Eighteen months on and there’s no mistake about the hatred and spite with which Obama conducts business.

But you can break the spell of Obama on your life by going to live in that place he can never get at you. It’s called gathering your loved ones about you and teaching them how to survive if the worse ever becomes the worst.

Waiting Obama out is a practical strategy. If the worse comes to the worst and even if a crisis cancels mid-term elections, you have already gathered your wagons around you.

You will have long since gathered your family and friends around you and have prepared for the worst by doing practical things.

As determined as Obama seems in the transformation of America, time is against him. He cannot destroy the Free World, or wipe out populations overnight.

Through the nights of darkness, some can still see that the political strategy of the Obama Regime is to demoralize.

Unelected Czars with decades old grudges are digging deep into their bag of tricks to demoralize average Americans. Their tactics are bush league compared to the monsters of Marxism who have tried to suppress freedom in other parts of the world down through the ages.

Imposed Communism was held back, not by guns or knives in Estonia but by the singing of millions.

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/24921

WE'RE WAITING YOUR WORTHLESS ASS OUT, YOU SCUMBAG OBAMA!

Sweet Daddy Hate
07-02-2010, 11:51 AM
You know he started out OK several years ago but has become such an obnoxious media whore and John Wayne wannabe it's pathetic.

And most law enforcement personnel, and ESPECIALLY the retired guys, can't stand that sonofabitch.

Force Illegals to listen to Sarah Palin. There would be so many Illegals swimming the Rio Grande to get BACK to Mexico there wouldn't be any water left in the river.

LMAO Quote of the week secured!

Only a tyrant masquerading as president could hint at his goal for blanket amnesty during the July 4th weekend.

Obama’s messages to his own people always come in black-edged envelopes. He wanted a HealthCare Bill that would be signed, sealed and delivered on Christmas Eve. Having failed, he went on to deliver the bill one week before Palm Sunday, and has been gloating ever since.

Not for Obama to hurl the wrecking ball at America any day of the year when symbolism can add so much more to the sting of pain.

Eighteen months on and there’s no mistake about the hatred and spite with which Obama conducts business.

But you can break the spell of Obama on your life by going to live in that place he can never get at you. It’s called gathering your loved ones about you and teaching them how to survive if the worse ever becomes the worst.

Waiting Obama out is a practical strategy. If the worse comes to the worst and even if a crisis cancels mid-term elections, you have already gathered your wagons around you.

You will have long since gathered your family and friends around you and have prepared for the worst by doing practical things.

As determined as Obama seems in the transformation of America, time is against him. He cannot destroy the Free World, or wipe out populations overnight.

Through the nights of darkness, some can still see that the political strategy of the Obama Regime is to demoralize.

Unelected Czars with decades old grudges are digging deep into their bag of tricks to demoralize average Americans. Their tactics are bush league compared to the monsters of Marxism who have tried to suppress freedom in other parts of the world down through the ages.

Imposed Communism was held back, not by guns or knives in Estonia but by the singing of millions.

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/24921

WE'RE WAITING YOUR WORTHLESS ASS OUT, YOU SCUMBAG OBAMA!

Do you really believe half of the bullshit you post?

vailpass
07-02-2010, 12:31 PM
It was in response to this post



You make it sound like this is all Obama's fault, part of it is, but the largest part goes to Reagan who gave blanket amnesty to all illegals, Bush 1, Clinton, and W for doing nada. Republicans and conservatives have equally been complicit in ignoring illegal immigration so this idea that once Obama is out the right will fix it is silly IMO.

Sorry, I can see where it looked like I was boiling the issue down to partisanship. As I said in the same post I haven't been a big fan of any Presidential administration R or D for a long time, at least as far back as GHB.

These are tough times for our country and emotions can run high. I fume whenever I think of what obama has done, is doing and will do to our country. Apologies if I let that spill out in an uncivil way.

vailpass
07-02-2010, 12:36 PM
obama mumbling about how we can't secure our border.
Not so long ago we designed, built and executed a process that landed man on the moon but we can't secure our borders?
All of the great, world-changing achievements this country has produced (and there are way more than our short history should have) came from the American mindset of can-do.
The current POTUS sets a horrible example, portrays the US in a weak light, every time he fails in this regard. We need a strong POTUS and we need him now. Out with obama, he is a disgrace and a failure as a leader.

J Diddy
07-02-2010, 01:15 PM
And most law enforcement personnel, and ESPECIALLY the retired guys, can't stand that sonofabitch.



LMAO Quote of the week secured!



Do you really believe half of the bullshit you post?

Yes he does

vailpass
07-02-2010, 01:33 PM
And most law enforcement personnel, and ESPECIALLY the retired guys, can't stand that sonofabitch.

What percentage is "most" and where do you get that number?
It is clear the people of Maricopa support Arpaio and have for many years. I don't have a particular dog in this fight but I find it funny when people say "most people are against Arpaio" when the guy has won every election he has been in, some of them running unopposed. Not singling you out, more thinking of that rag New Times and the other local rag the AZ Republic.

With the growing numbers of illegals that vote Joe may face a tougher challenge next time, I don't know.

The Mad Crapper
07-02-2010, 01:37 PM
Yes he does

Barack Hussein Obama!

Mmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Obama_Coin_ExactChange_160.gif

Hopey Change™

Sweet Daddy Hate
07-02-2010, 04:02 PM
What percentage is "most" and where do you get that number?
It is clear the people of Maricopa support Arpaio and have for many years. I don't have a particular dog in this fight but I find it funny when people say "most people are against Arpaio" when the guy has won every election he has been in, some of them running unopposed. Not singling you out, more thinking of that rag New Times and the other local rag the AZ Republic.

With the growing numbers of illegals that vote Joe may face a tougher challenge next time, I don't know.

You answered your own question.

vailpass
07-02-2010, 04:03 PM
You answered your own question.

Nobody ever accused the people of Maricopa of over-thinking an issue. Vast majority of us aren't from here and vote only according to self-interest with never a thought to what's good for the community today, tomorrow, 20 years from now.
IMHO Arpaio fits this place to a T.

Sweet Daddy Hate
07-02-2010, 04:12 PM
Nobody ever accused the people of Maricopa of over-thinking an issue. Vast majority of us aren't from here and vote only according to self-interest with never a thought to what's good for the community today, tomorrow, 20 years from now.
IMHO Arpaio fits this place to a T.

Good enough. And quit making it so fucking hot outside please.

vailpass
07-02-2010, 04:22 PM
Good enough. And quit making it so ****ing hot outside please.

No shit. 108 in Cave Creek right now, I heard something like 113 in Phoenix?

Sweet Daddy Hate
07-02-2010, 04:23 PM
No shit. 108 in Cave Creek right now, I heard something like 113 in Phoenix?

It was 111 last night at around 5pm. Fuck...:shake:

vailpass
07-02-2010, 04:36 PM
It was 111 last night at around 5pm. ****...:shake:

Yeah I woke up around 2:30 am and went for a swim, didn't even shiver.

Sweet Daddy Hate
07-02-2010, 04:39 PM
Yeah I woke up around 2:30 am and went for a swim, didn't even shiver.

My new place has a pool, and I'll be living in that motherfucker believe you me.

vailpass
07-02-2010, 04:48 PM
My new place has a pool, and I'll be living in that mother****er believe you me.

You got a place? Congrats. Pool? Bonus!! Friendly smiling females frequent the pool? Home.

MadMax
07-02-2010, 06:14 PM
My new place has a pool, and I'll be living in that mother****er believe you me.



Lucky bastard! I love pools :)

Sweet Daddy Hate
07-03-2010, 12:56 PM
You got a place? Congrats. Pool? Bonus!! Friendly smiling females frequent the pool? Home.

Lucky bastard! I love pools :)

No, no, no, everybody calm down. This is just another rental in a slightly better part of town.

I'm still surrounded by hampsters, burros, ass-monkeys and retards.

With glass pipes...:shake:

Bob Dole
07-07-2010, 09:45 AM
This idiot cannot fade back in to obscurity fast enough.

Sweet Daddy Hate
07-07-2010, 10:16 AM
This idiot cannot fade back in to obscurity fast enough.

Poor Crapper; even Bob Dole can't stand him. :)

vailpass
07-07-2010, 11:44 AM
No, no, no, everybody calm down. This is just another rental in a slightly better part of town.

I'm still surrounded by hampsters, burros, ass-monkeys and retards.

With glass pipes...:shake:

Nothing wrong with renting. Hampsters and burros come with the territory in the PHX.

Hydrae
07-07-2010, 11:45 AM
:hmmm:


Amnesty to 12 million people, make them citizens who will then pay into the system, thus reducing the deficit? :shrug:

Donger
07-07-2010, 11:59 AM
:hmmm:


Amnesty to 12 million people, make them citizens who will then pay into the system, thus reducing the deficit? :shrug:

Pay into the system? How? I doubt that many of them would pay any income tax, but I guess they'd pay payroll taxes.

I don' think it would lead to the conclusion you reached above (that there'd be a net gain).

mlyonsd
07-07-2010, 01:32 PM
:hmmm:


Amnesty to 12 million people, make them citizens who will then pay into the system, thus reducing the deficit? :shrug:

Yeah I'm sure when it comes to Amnesty Obama will give strict orders to the CBO not to figure in 10 million more people that don't hold down jobs.

Sweet Daddy Hate
07-08-2010, 10:27 AM
Nothing wrong with renting. Hampsters and burros come with the territory in the PHX.

I've graduated from "Chico and the Man" to "My Name is Earl".

It's quite thrilling really...:banghead:

Capricorn
07-09-2010, 05:05 PM
Im not opposed to it. I came in this thread seeing what ideas people had.

Lets pretend our borders are secure and no one is getting over here.

So, lets say it takes 10-15 years to really start getting those numbers down. How much money would that cost? Who is paying for it?

Now lets say they grant amnesty. How much money would that cost and how much money would we recover from these 12 million people now that we are taxing their asses?

So what's the cost difference between a 10-15 year war on immigration in which we are recovering no money and having no illegals and taxing their asses?

Just trying to see which makes the most sense here.

Hell, we are paying out of our asses for bailouts left and right to criminals now, why stop? Bank bailouts, a totally fucked National Health care System, Illegals sucking us dry with free health care, food stamps, subsidized housing, etc.

Damn, maybe I would get over better by being illegal.