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Archie F. Swin
07-05-2010, 01:58 PM
... or are we gonna break the record for runners left on base? STFU

http://www.bgawebsites.org/computerclass/2007-08/codyevins/albertpujols.jpg

Archie F. Swin
07-05-2010, 01:59 PM
and no...I'm not suggesting we go after pooholes....I just like the idea of someone like that being on our roster

Saul Good
07-05-2010, 02:05 PM
The Royals are sellers, not buyers.

Reaper16
07-05-2010, 02:07 PM
This thread is the worst.

Chocolate Hog
07-05-2010, 02:07 PM
Pujols has as many 30+ HR seasons as the Royals since 1980.

Reaper16
07-05-2010, 02:07 PM
and no...I'm not suggesting we go after pooholes....I just like the idea of someone like that being on our roster
Oh? You like the idea of one of the three best right handed hitters of all time being on the Royals roster? Really?

Mojo Jojo
07-05-2010, 02:09 PM
Why would the Royals even think of doing this? The Royals aren't going anywhere in the standings even with another bat. A slugger is going to cost money and young talent from the Royals, and he most likely will be gone before a supporting cast could be put around him. Do you remember when the Royals traded for Harmon Killebrew to get a "big bat"? It didn't work out. How about the Brewers trading for Hank Aaron?
I see the Royals trading batters for prospects not the other way around.

Sully
07-05-2010, 02:13 PM
Lebron James is a free agent. But you'd have to sign Bosh, as well.

Chocolate Hog
07-05-2010, 02:17 PM
Why would the Royals even think of doing this? The Royals aren't going anywhere in the standings even with another bat. A slugger is going to cost money and young talent from the Royals, and he most likely will be gone before a supporting cast could be put around him. Do you remember when the Royals traded for Harmon Killebrew to get a "big bat"? It didn't work out. How about the Brewers trading for Hank Aaron?
I see the Royals trading batters for prospects not the other way around.

Lawl at the Royals having young talent. Yea lets not trade for one of the best players ever.

Deberg_1990
07-05-2010, 02:21 PM
Teams like the Royals have to develop sluggers. They have no chance of outbidding the bigger market teams. None

KevB
07-05-2010, 02:22 PM
Lawl at the Royals having young talent. Yea lets not trade for one of the best players ever.

The Royals have arguably the best farm system in baseball right now.

SnakeXJones
07-05-2010, 02:23 PM
Lawl at the Royals having young talent. Yea lets not trade for one of the best players ever. I dont think you follow baseball very well do u

Chocolate Hog
07-05-2010, 02:25 PM
The Royals have arguably the best farm system in baseball right now.

Heard that one before. Luke Hochcrapper says whats up.

Chocolate Hog
07-05-2010, 02:26 PM
I dont think you follow baseball very well do u

Royals Baseball has been great the last 20 years. The shit it's fans come up with is hilarious.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 02:26 PM
Teams like the Royals have to develop sluggers. They have no chance of outbidding the bigger market teams. None

LMAO.

We've accepted so much of the "smaller market" bullshit that we can't possibly find our own way.

100% of our young prospects will come up and contribute in impressive fashion. Can't miss. Golden spikes. Alex Gordon.

gblowfish
07-05-2010, 02:27 PM
Whats Juan Gonzalez, Ken Harvey and Bob Hamelin up to? I bet they're all available....

Deberg_1990
07-05-2010, 02:28 PM
LMAO.

We've accepted so much of the "smaller market" bullshit that we can't possibly find our own way.

You really think the Royals could outbid the Yankees for a Mark Texiara??

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 02:29 PM
You really think the Royals could outbid the Yankees for a Mark Texiara??

I think the Royals could afford to have at least one premier player on the team. So...yes.

Right now, it's inexcusable that Hunter is an Angel and not a Royal. If we're going to turn this thing around, we're going to need to do a bit of Detroit/Minnesota hybrid. With much emphasis on the MN model, once we're breathing on our own.

gblowfish
07-05-2010, 02:32 PM
OOOH...and Mike Jacobs. I forgot to mention Mike Jacobs!!!

SnakeXJones
07-05-2010, 02:33 PM
OOOH...and Mike Jacobs. I forgot to mention Mike Jacobs!!! Only if we was in the shitty national league

Saul Good
07-05-2010, 02:35 PM
I think the Royals could afford to have at least one premier player on the team. So...yes.

Right now, it's inexcusable that Hunter is an Angel and not a Royal. If we're going to turn this thing around, we're going to need to do a bit of Detroit/Minnesota hybrid. With much emphasis on the MN model, once we're breathing on our own.

The Royals are breathing on their own right now. As of today, the Royals are an average baseball team at the major league level. The minor league system is stacked with talent, and the best players on the major league club are young.

There's no guarantee that anything is going to pan out, but you can't find fault with the way the signs are pointing.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 02:41 PM
There's no guarantee that anything is going to pan out, but you can't find fault with the way the signs are pointing.

What? Hold on because the ML roster is horribly constructed.

All of our chips have been placed on the draft, which isn't a bad approach, necessarily, but our trades and FA acquisitions have left little to be desired.

For a team like the Royals to win consistently, all three elements have to be high-quality.

ChiTown
07-05-2010, 02:55 PM
The Royals are breathing on their own right now. As of today, the Royals are a below average baseball team, as they have been every year for the last 15+ years, at the major league level. The minor league system is stacked with talent, and the best players on the major league club are young.

There's no guarantee that anything is going to pan out, but you can't find fault with the way the signs are pointing.

fyp

If you divide the league in 1/3rds, they are in the bottom 1/3, with only 8 teams with a worse record than theirs. They have been a pathetic organization at the MLB level for the last 2 decades. I'd kill for average with this organization...........

KevB
07-05-2010, 02:58 PM
Heard that one before. Luke Hochcrapper says whats up.

No, you haven't. We haven't had a top farm system for as long as the major league club has been terrible. The minor league system is as good as it's been in two decades.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 02:58 PM
There's a pendulum-effect right now because we have a (mostly) competent manager.

KevB
07-05-2010, 03:02 PM
Quote from Kevin Goldstein (Baseball Prospectus) yesterday :

Hosmer's gone from a massive disappointment to one of the best hitting prospects in the game, and is just a small part of why the Royals have the best minor league system in the game.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 03:03 PM
He was supposed to be the goods in '08, and our draft that year was fucking sick.

Saul Good
07-05-2010, 03:06 PM
fyp

If you divide the league in 1/3rds, they are in the bottom 1/3, with only 8 teams with a worse record than theirs. They have been a pathetic organization at the MLB level for the last 2 decades. I'd kill for average with this organization...........

This team has played .500 ball since the point where we handed over the reigns to a competent manager, and that's without getting a win all season from our #2 starter.
We have a young ace in the rotation. We have a guy in Hochevar who is starting to find his way. Behind them, we have 5 stud LH prospects in the minors.


We have a gaping hole at Catcher. We have Wil Meyers tearing up the minors.
We have a Butler at 1b, so we appear to be in good shape there for the foreseeable future.
We could use some help ad 2b, but Callaspo and/or Aviles are serviceable there.
We just drafted a SS out of college who should be able to fill the hole there by 2012.
We have Moustakis killing it at 3b in the minors.
I don't know about RF, but hopefully Gordon figures things out. He's mashing in the minors.
DeJesus is excellent in CF.
LF is still a hole, but we have several options in the minors for 2011 or 2012.
The bullpen has really come around, and we have studs aplenty in the minors.

What, exactly, is the problem?

teedubya
07-05-2010, 03:11 PM
The Royals seem somewhat promising, but I'm not going down the road. I know it is a dead end road with sadness, misery and apathy.

Chocolate Hog
07-05-2010, 03:14 PM
No, you haven't. We haven't had a top farm system for as long as the major league club has been terrible. The minor league system is as good as it's been in two decades.

Right on.

CaliforniaChief
07-05-2010, 03:15 PM
It does help us recruit much better FA's beginning next year when we are able to:

1. Overpay by an ungodly amount.
2. Sell them the total package of what we've got coming up to KC.
3. Assure players that our manager no longer makes decisions by "looking into their eyes."

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 03:16 PM
The outfield you've just projected sucks.

1. DeJesus' glove doesn't play in CF. Before he was hurt last season, Crisp was markedly better and demonstrated the advantage of having someone with range.
2. Gordon needs to be back up, but we absolutely cannot count on him.

You're right about Moose killing it at 3B; his defense is, allegedly, ****ing terrible. He'll likely be a corner-outfielder in the future.

Defensively, Myers has been abysmal, so he also projects as a corner-outfielder.

Colon could be in KC as early as next season. But let's face facts: not all of these players will pan out. Take the top position players: Myers, Moose, Hosmer, and Colon. If 2 of the 4 end up contributing at a high level, that will be a hell of a success. Hope that the other two are viable ML players.

We're going to need to be successful in FA, too.

SnakeXJones
07-05-2010, 03:19 PM
I think Derrick Robinson is our CF of the future too bad he has no power

ChiTown
07-05-2010, 03:23 PM
We're going to need to be successful in FA, too.

and DM has just killed it in that department..........
:facepalm:

L.A. Chieffan
07-05-2010, 03:26 PM
milton bradley

MIAdragon
07-05-2010, 03:26 PM
The Royals have arguably the best farm system in baseball right now.

Its not bad but I don't think its a top 10 system.

Reaper16
07-05-2010, 03:28 PM
Its not bad but I don't think its a top 10 system.
Name 10 better farm systems with reasons why. Because I am calling bullshit and I am also calling you a dullard.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 03:28 PM
and DM has just killed it in that department..........
:facepalm:

And now we're back to the real key. Can this douche make the correct decisions with trades and FA? And we're going to have to be able to move highly-thought-of prospects for proven talent.

This is why it's so important for high-round selections not to shit themselves in their first year. Thank you, Aaron Crow and Luke Hochevar.

WilliamTheIrish
07-05-2010, 03:32 PM
Why would the Royals even think of doing this? The Royals aren't going anywhere in the standings even with another bat. A slugger is going to cost money and young talent from the Royals, and he most likely will be gone before a supporting cast could be put around him. Do you remember when the Royals traded for Harmon Killebrew to get a "big bat"? It didn't work out. How about the Brewers trading for Hank Aaron?
I see the Royals trading batters for prospects not the other way around.

I don't recall Killebrew being traded to the Royals. He had been hurt and his skills were in decline. He was released by the Twins as I recall and the Royals signed him as a RH bat off the bench to compliment Mayberry. And he hit 14 HR's in Royals Stadium. There were very few cheap shots that flew outta that stadium.

Hank's case was different. The Braves moved him to Milwaukee for sort of a farewell tour, bringing him back where he started in Milwaukee. I saw him hit #749 off of Al Fitzmorris in 1975.

EDIT: 736

SnakeXJones
07-05-2010, 03:41 PM
Why would the Royals even think of doing this? The Royals aren't going anywhere in the standings even with another bat. A slugger is going to cost money and young talent from the Royals, and he most likely will be gone before a supporting cast could be put around him. Do you remember when the Royals traded for Harmon Killebrew to get a "big bat"? It didn't work out. How about the Brewers trading for Hank Aaron?
I see the Royals trading batters for prospects not the other way around. Im pretty sure he wasnt traded to the royals

ChiTown
07-05-2010, 03:44 PM
Im pretty sure he wasnt traded to the royals

Yep, from wiki...

At age 38, he was given the option of staying with the Twins as a coach and batting instructor, managing the AAA Tacoma Twins, or being released. He chose to be released and, after a one-year stint with the Kansas City Royals in 1975, he chose to retire.

CoMoChief
07-05-2010, 03:52 PM
I hear Jeff King and Chuck Knoblauch are available.

CaliforniaChief
07-05-2010, 03:53 PM
My personal favorites were Chili Davis and Danny Tartabull.

WilliamTheIrish
07-05-2010, 03:56 PM
My personal favorites were Chili Davis and Danny Tartabull.

We got five really good seasons for what we traded to get Bull. I'm having trouble remembering the names of the guys we gave up.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 03:58 PM
We once sent Sabes and some bleach to the Mets in exchange for some garbage.

WilliamTheIrish
07-05-2010, 03:59 PM
Close. Cone and some bleach.

CaliforniaChief
07-05-2010, 03:59 PM
We got five really good seasons for what we traded to get Bull. I'm having trouble remembering the names of the guys we gave up.

It actually was a good trade. We sent Mike Kingery, Scott Bankhead, and Steve Shields for him.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1003559/index.htm

WilliamTheIrish
07-05-2010, 04:01 PM
Kingery? I know he never really amounted to much but he was a real fun player to watch.

kcfanXIII
07-05-2010, 04:05 PM
Heard that one before. Luke Hochcrapper says whats up.

how about the bigger bust alex gordon? at least there's a spot on this team for hoch. your nebraska prospect turned out to be as shitty as the rest of your state. he couldn't even beat out collapse-o callaspo. talk about strike outs, he has more Ks then nebraska has cornstalks. rumor has it, the soundtrack to his mlb highlight reel will be "i'm bad" by michal jackson, as it best describes the type of product you get from a state that isn't even populated densely enough to inbreed.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 04:12 PM
Close. Cone and some bleach.

Sabes.

In 1991, he went 13–8 with a 3.07 ERA and pitched a no-hitter against the White Sox on August 26, 1991 (the last in Royals history[2] ). On December 11, 1991, he was traded along with Bill Pecota to the New York Mets in exchange for Kevin McReynolds, Gregg Jefferies, and Keith Miller.

He posted several solid seasons, winning 14 games for the New York Mets in the strike shortened 1994 season and won 15 games for the Boston Red Sox in 1998. Also in 1994, he had more wins than walks. No other pitcher (as of 2005) pitching more than 150 innings had accomplished this feat since 1919.[3] His stint with the Mets was not without controversy; on July 27, 1993, Saberhagen sprayed bleach into a group of reporters. After admitting his role in this incident, Saberhagen donated one day's pay to charity and apologized to fans and the media.[4]

Scholarly source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bret_Saberhagen

Archie F. Swin
07-05-2010, 04:17 PM
this thread is like a dumping ground for broken dreams

duncan_idaho
07-05-2010, 04:18 PM
I think the Royals could afford to have at least one premier player on the team. So...yes.

Right now, it's inexcusable that Hunter is an Angel and not a Royal. If we're going to turn this thing around, we're going to need to do a bit of Detroit/Minnesota hybrid. With much emphasis on the MN model, once we're breathing on our own.

The Royals offered Hunter $18 million per... then the Angels matched it. Not much you can do there but go higher, and $20 million per for a guy who's 32 is not a smart way to start rebuilding a franchise.

Definitely wish they'd won that bidding war, though.

MIAdragon
07-05-2010, 04:25 PM
Name 10 better farm systems with reasons why. Because I am calling bullshit and I am also calling you a dullard.

I see your dullard and raise you an ignoramus. Here is a quick link or two.

Here you are at 12

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/01/26/2010-farm-system-rankings/

Hey here you are at 8

http://www.deepleagues.com/?p=1055

IIRC baseballamerica.com top 5 systems were the Rays, Rangers, Indians, Giants, Phillies and the Red Sox.

:)

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 04:27 PM
The Royals offered Hunter $18 million per... then the Angels matched it. Not much you can do there but go higher, and $20 million per for a guy who's 32 is not a smart way to start rebuilding a franchise.

Definitely wish they'd won that bidding war, though.

Would have been very risky, no doubt. But at some point, we're going to need to go all in...and be correct. 18...20? Is there really a huge difference at that point? As if missing with 18 wouldn't have hurt just as badly?

Hunter would have been a high-quality signing, even at that price tag, in hindsight.

duncan_idaho
07-05-2010, 04:28 PM
I think the Royals could afford to have at least one premier player on the team. So...yes.

Right now, it's inexcusable that Hunter is an Angel and not a Royal. If we're going to turn this thing around, we're going to need to do a bit of Detroit/Minnesota hybrid. With much emphasis on the MN model, once we're breathing on our own.

The Royals were the first team to offer him $18 million per. The Angels matched it. Do you really think a 32-year-old CF is worth $20 million per/5 years? Because it would have taken at least that to get him, possibly more.

They didn't win that bidding war, but it wasn't for lack of effort.

WilliamTheIrish
07-05-2010, 04:30 PM
Sabes.

In 1991, he went 138 with a 3.07 ERA and pitched a no-hitter against the White Sox on August 26, 1991 (the last in Royals history[2] ). On December 11, 1991, he was traded along with Bill Pecota to the New York Mets in exchange for Kevin McReynolds, Gregg Jefferies, and Keith Miller.

He posted several solid seasons, winning 14 games for the New York Mets in the strike shortened 1994 season and won 15 games for the Boston Red Sox in 1998. Also in 1994, he had more wins than walks. No other pitcher (as of 2005) pitching more than 150 innings had accomplished this feat since 1919.[3] His stint with the Mets was not without controversy; on July 27, 1993, Saberhagen sprayed bleach into a group of reporters. After admitting his role in this incident, Saberhagen donated one day's pay to charity and apologized to fans and the media.[4]

Scholarly source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bret_Saberhagen

Sorry,

Shitty trades to the Mets begins and ends with Cone/Hearn. I'll never understand how those f*cks justified that trade.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 04:30 PM
The Royals were the first team to offer him $18 million per. The Angels matched it. Do you really think a 32-year-old CF is worth $20 million per/5 years? Because it would have taken at least that to get him, possibly more.

They didn't win that bidding war, but it wasn't for lack of effort.

If you think he's worth 18 and you're the Royals, you better be ready to go 20. 21-22? Fine.

And yes, give me Hunter for 20 rather than Guillen for 12, Farnsworth for 4.5, and Kendall for 3.

WilliamTheIrish
07-05-2010, 04:32 PM
....And yes, give me Hunter for 20 rather than Guillen for 12, Farnsworth for 4.5, and Kendall for 3.

Somebody pass the bleach....

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 04:33 PM
The mismanagement of our ML roster has been laughable at best.

Fuck, we gave Yourbooty 6 to fly over from Japan and then catch a return flight.

duncan_idaho
07-05-2010, 04:37 PM
I see your dullard and raise you an ignoramus. Here is a quick link or two.

Here you are at 12

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/01/26/2010-farm-system-rankings/

Hey here you are at 8

http://www.deepleagues.com/?p=1055

IIRC baseballamerica.com top 5 systems were the Rays, Rangers, Indians, Giants, Phillies and the Red Sox.

:)

And those were before the minor league season started.

Look at the recent stuff, like this article (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=11354).

Or, this article from TODAY from ESPN. (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/news/story?id=5355514) (need insider, but the headline says a lot).

What changed?

Mike Moustakas started hitting like the guy who is going to compete for MiLB POTY honors.

Eric Hosmer went crazy at Wilmington, putting up crazy numbers at the worst hitter's park in MiLB.

John Lamb and Chris Dwyer joined Mike Montgomery as huge upside lefty starters. Lamb and Monty are both true No. 1 starter types.

Derrick Robinson found his stroke and is stealing everything in sight at Double AA.

Then there's Wil Myers, a hitting savant who has raked at every level he's been at so far (he got promoted to Double AA less than a year after signing OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL and is continuing to rake)>

The Royals top five guys - Moose, Hosmer, Myers, Montgomery and Lamb - will go up with the top five guys of any system out there and compare well. But it's not just those guys. It's guys like Robinson and Dwyer. It's useful bullpen arms like Louis Coleman, Blaine Hardy and Tyler Keating. It's big upside guys like Crow (whose stuff is fantastic but is showing a ton of rust. His gb/fb rate is also phenomenal and suggests he has been somewhat unlucky), Tyler Sample and Tim Mehlville.

And then there's the 2011 draft class, which includes a guy in Colon who's a safe bet to be a MLB starter at either 2B or SS, a positional weakness.

The Royals minor league system is positively loaded. And that's why it is beginning to be regarded by many experts as the top system in baseball.

tk13
07-05-2010, 04:42 PM
I don't know if it's a lock that we would've got Hunter at 20. The Angels had the money, and they were a playoff team. You go above 20 and you're getting into what was A-Rod territory at the time... that would've been pretty crazy.

But I guess we'll never know. Remember Orlando Hudson took less money to play with the Dodgers. Kuroda did the same. Those are frustrating too. DM has not done very well in FA at all... especially Guillen and Farnsworth. But we'd probably all be singing a different tune if we had gold glovers at CF (Hunter) and 2B (Hudson) and Kuroda holding down a spot in the rotation.

duncan_idaho
07-05-2010, 04:45 PM
The outfield you've just projected sucks.

1. DeJesus' glove doesn't play in CF. Before he was hurt last season, Crisp was markedly better and demonstrated the advantage of having someone with range.
2. Gordon needs to be back up, but we absolutely cannot count on him.

You're right about Moose killing it at 3B; his defense is, allegedly, ****ing terrible. He'll likely be a corner-outfielder in the future.

Defensively, Myers has been abysmal, so he also projects as a corner-outfielder.

Colon could be in KC as early as next season. But let's face facts: not all of these players will pan out. Take the top position players: Myers, Moose, Hosmer, and Colon. If 2 of the 4 end up contributing at a high level, that will be a hell of a success. Hope that the other two are viable ML players.

We're going to need to be successful in FA, too.

You're going to like Derrick Robinson in centerfield. He's a tremendous athlete with amazing speed and great range.

Myers has the tools but is extremely raw (little experience) as a catcher. He'll be a quick convert to RF/CF if necessary.

Moose has not been that bad at 3B this year. His defense has been solid enough to project him there for a little while. He has a great arm (some scouts have rated it at 80/80) and good hands.

I'm not sure DeJesus figures in long-term plans, anyway. I think your 2012 outfield, ideally, would be Gordon/Robinson/Eric Hosmer (who has the speed and arm to play RF and is likely blocked at 1B).

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 04:45 PM
He might not have signed for 20. But let's say we go 22. Is Hunter turning down an extra $20M?

And if you get the first big fish, it will be easier to try to convince the next guys. See: Detroit.

If you're willing to go 18, the fact is that you simply have to get the deal done. And David Glass can thank his own past stupidity and cheapness for having to go well above market value.

Anyway, this is all sad, painful history. Let's hope our prospects pan out.

For the sake of argument, though: Guillen, Farnsworth, Kendall, Yourbooty: 22.5 per.

Reaper16
07-05-2010, 04:53 PM
I see your dullard and raise you an ignoramus. Here is a quick link or two.

Here you are at 12

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/01/26/2010-farm-system-rankings/

Hey here you are at 8

http://www.deepleagues.com/?p=1055

IIRC baseballamerica.com top 5 systems were the Rays, Rangers, Indians, Giants, Phillies and the Red Sox.

:)
Those were all written before the spring training even started. Don't bring that weak bullshit. The Royals have two top ten bats, arguably two of the top 5 starting pitching prospects (Montgomery, Lamb), productive bats at all levels and pitching depth out the ass, especially with respect to LHP. I asked for reasons to back up your claim, not mounds of ignorant horseshit.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 04:56 PM
Montgomery's recurring arm troubles worry me.

duncan_idaho
07-05-2010, 04:57 PM
Those were all written before the spring training even started. Don't bring that weak bullshit. The Royals have two top ten bats, arguably two of the top 5 starting pitching prospects (Montgomery, Lamb), productive bats at all levels and pitching depth out the ass, especially with respect to LHP. I asked for reasons to back up your claim, not mounds of ignorant horseshit.

Don't forget Wil Myers or Chris Dwyer.

The Royals top 10 leaves out guys like Edgar Osuna, Tyler Sample, Sal Perez... all players who would have been top 3 when Moore became GM.

Reaper16
07-05-2010, 04:57 PM
Montgomery's recurring arm troubles worry me.
Certainly cause for worry, yeah. Not a dire worry, just an elevated level of concern.

Reaper16
07-05-2010, 04:58 PM
Don't forget Wil Myers or Chris Dwyer.

The Royals top 10 leaves out guys like Edgar Osuna, Tyler Sample, Sal Perez... all players who would have been top 3 when Moore became GM.
I'm not forgetting anyone; I know the farm system very well. I was speaking in quick generalities because I was angry when posting that.

duncan_idaho
07-05-2010, 04:58 PM
Montgomery's recurring arm troubles worry me.

Elbow tendinitis is all they've found so far. Same thing that has shelved Brett Anderson of the A's, basically (timeframes are almost identical).

duncan_idaho
07-05-2010, 04:59 PM
I'm not forgetting anyone. I was speaking in quick generalities because I was angry when posting that.

Understood. :)

We've crushed him with facts, though.

Chocolate Hog
07-05-2010, 04:59 PM
how about the bigger bust alex gordon? at least there's a spot on this team for hoch. your nebraska prospect turned out to be as shitty as the rest of your state. he couldn't even beat out collapse-o callaspo. talk about strike outs, he has more Ks then nebraska has cornstalks. rumor has it, the soundtrack to his mlb highlight reel will be "i'm bad" by michal jackson, as it best describes the type of product you get from a state that isn't even populated densely enough to inbreed.

Do you really think I give a fuck about college baseball?

tk13
07-05-2010, 05:04 PM
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=11354

Here's a recent BP article about the top prospects in baseball... Royals all over the place.

Saul Good
07-05-2010, 05:36 PM
He might not have signed for 20. But let's say we go 22. Is Hunter turning down an extra $20M?

And if you get the first big fish, it will be easier to try to convince the next guys. See: Detroit.

If you're willing to go 18, the fact is that you simply have to get the deal done. And David Glass can thank his own past stupidity and cheapness for having to go well above market value.

Anyway, this is all sad, painful history. Let's hope our prospects pan out.

For the sake of argument, though: Guillen, Farnsworth, Kendall, Yourbooty: 22.5 per.

Torii Hunter: .294, 14 HR, 60 RBI
Jose Guillen: .274, 14 HR, 52 RBI

gblowfish
07-05-2010, 05:54 PM
I don't recall Killebrew being traded to the Royals. He had been hurt and his skills were in decline. He was released by the Twins as I recall and the Royals signed him as a RH bat off the bench to compliment Mayberry. And he hit 14 HR's in Royals Stadium. There were very few cheap shots that flew outta that stadium.

Hank's case was different. The Braves moved him to Milwaukee for sort of a farewell tour, bringing him back where he started in Milwaukee. I saw him hit #749 off of Al Fitzmorris in 1975.

EDIT: 736

Harmon Killebrew played one year for the Royals at the very tail end of his career. He was in Royals Stadium, where center field was 410 and the power alleys were 385, and astroturf. Way too big a stadium for him to be effective. And when they got him, his knees were shot, and he couldn't run for shit. I saw him hit a screaming line drive off the 385 sign in right center once, and they damn near threw him out at first. He was that slow.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 05:55 PM
Torii Hunter: .294, 14 HR, 60 RBI
Jose Guillen: .274, 14 HR, 52 RBI

Hunter's OPS since signing:

110
126
140

A combined 100 RAR at the plate.

And 2 GGs, for good measure.

Guillen:

95
80
115

A combined -2 RAR at the plate.

And 0 GGs, LMAO.

Saul Good
07-05-2010, 06:04 PM
Hunter's OPS since signing:

110
126
140

A combined 100 RAR at the plate.

And 2 GGs, for good measure.

Guillen:

95
80
115

A combined -2 RAR at the plate.

And 0 GGs, LMAO.

I'm not going to wave the Jose Guillen flag, but bitching about us not getting Torii Hunter is like the Milwaukee Bucks bitching about not signing LeBron James. It was never going to happen. We made a legit push for him, and we offered him more than our two highest paid players combined earn.

The Royals are an average major league team this year from a talent standpoint. Competent managing of our bullpen during the first 2 months of the season is the only thing standing between us and being in contention. If we had only blown 3 of the 6 or so games that were absolutely flushed away, we'd be right in the middle of the race.

This team will be better next year and should be stacked with young talent for years to come. Dayton Moore has done a good job of stockpiling arms, and we should see the results soon.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 06:07 PM
How did a 120-loss Detroit team start to correct its course?

GoHuge
07-05-2010, 06:08 PM
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=11354

Here's a recent BP article about the top prospects in baseball... Royals all over the place.Normally I'd let this slide, but you REPOST an article in a 5-page thread? Pretty dumb........shape up!!! Not a member of the board police, but come on dude that is early signs of being chronic stupid. Do better!

Reaper16
07-05-2010, 06:09 PM
I'm not going to wave the Jose Guillen flag, but bitching about us not getting Torii Hunter is like the Milwaukee Bucks bitching about not signing LeBron James. It was never going to happen. We made a legit push for him, and we offered him more than our two highest paid players combined earn.

The Royals are an average major league team this year from a talent standpoint. Competent managing of our bullpen during the first 2 months of the season is the only thing standing between us and being in contention. If we had only blown 3 of the 6 or so games that were absolutely flushed away, we'd be right in the middle of the race.

This team will be better next year and should be stacked with young talent for years to come. Dayton Moore has done a good job of stockpiling arms, and we should see the results soon.
Nice backpedal from that ownage you just suffered.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 06:10 PM
I'm not going to wave the Jose Guillen flag, but bitching about us not getting Torii Hunter is like the Milwaukee Bucks bitching about not signing LeBron James. It was never going to happen. We made a legit push for him, and we offered him more than our two highest paid players combined earn.

The Royals are an average major league team this year from a talent standpoint. Competent managing of our bullpen during the first 2 months of the season is the only thing standing between us and being in contention. If we had only blown 3 of the 6 or so games that were absolutely flushed away, we'd be right in the middle of the race.

This team will be better next year and should be stacked with young talent for years to come. Dayton Moore has done a good job of stockpiling arms, and we should see the results soon.

Disagree.

kcfanXIII
07-05-2010, 06:14 PM
Do you really think I give a fuck about college baseball?

who the fuck said anything about college baseball, other than the biggest bust in royals history came from your school?

Reaper16
07-05-2010, 06:16 PM
who the fuck said anything about college baseball, other than the biggest bust in royals history came from your school?
I wouldn't call him the biggest bust in Royals history. Not at all.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 06:19 PM
I wouldn't call him the biggest bust in Royals history. Not at all.

Arguably the biggest disappointment, especially considering his epic draft class.

gblowfish
07-05-2010, 06:21 PM
For as high as he was drafted and what we could have had instead, Alex Gordon has been a major bust. He still has time to redeem himself, but I'd leave him down in Omaha the entire year to make him earn his way back to the bigs. Something needs to get his attention. He seems like one of those guys who just show up for a paycheck. I don't see a burning desire to be great. He's a C-minus student type.

Reaper16
07-05-2010, 06:22 PM
Arguably the biggest disappointment, especially considering his epic draft class.
Which isn't the same thing, as you know.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 06:24 PM
Which isn't the same thing, as you know.

Why I qualified.

WilliamTheIrish
07-05-2010, 06:30 PM
Harmon Killebrew played one year for the Royals at the very tail end of his career. He was in Royals Stadium, where center field was 410 and the power alleys were 385, and astroturf. Way too big a stadium for him to be effective. And when they got him, his knees were shot, and he couldn't run for shit. I saw him hit a screaming line drive off the 385 sign in right center once, and they damn near threw him out at first. He was that slow.

Yea George. We saw the same guy. I saw him play half a dozen games or so that year. I was just correcting the "Do you remember the Royals trading for Killebrew" statement in this thread and adding some of my own memories.

Saul Good
07-05-2010, 06:30 PM
Nice backpedal from that ownage you just suffered.

I'm not sure how I was owned. I just posted both of their numbers for this season. Hunter's are clearly better, but they aren't better to the tune of $22,000,000 a season on a team with a total payroll of $71,000,000.

Do you really think that .020 batting average points are worth that kind of money? Guillen signed a 3 year $36,000,000 contract. Hunter MIGHT have signed with us if we offered him 5 years $110,000,000.

It's ludicrous to take a shot at Dayton Moore for not signing Torii Hunter. He offered the guy $18,000,000 per year, and Hunter turned him down. Hunter turns 35 this month, so he'll be 37 or 38 by the time the Royals are ready to compete. In the meantime, we've spent extra money signing draft picks who slid in the draft due to signability issues. I'll take that over a CF who's pushing 40 and earning 25% of the entire payroll.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 06:33 PM
I'll take that over a CF who's pushing 40 and earning 25% of the entire payroll.

We've absolutely pissed more money down the drain than it would have taken to sign Hunter, and I've posted the numbers in this very thread.

Yet we've been able to spend significant money in the draft. These aren't mutually exclusive.

Again, how did a 120-loss Detroit franchise start to rebound? Were FAs lured by idea of living in the beautiful metropolis of Detroit? The "tradition"? And what caused the first domino to fall? Clearly this cannot happen in poor, lil' ol' KC.

Trust the process.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 06:37 PM
Guardian says we need to stop the thread.

Archie F. Swin
07-05-2010, 06:38 PM
Could Billy Butler improve from a doubles hitter to a home run hitter? How many home runs does he have at the K?

Reaper16
07-05-2010, 06:42 PM
I'm not sure how I was owned. I just posted both of their numbers for this season. Hunter's are clearly better, but they aren't better to the tune of $22,000,000 a season on a team with a total payroll of $71,000,000.

Do you really think that .020 batting average points are worth that kind of money? Guillen signed a 3 year $36,000,000 contract. Hunter MIGHT have signed with us if we offered him 5 years $110,000,000.

It's ludicrous to take a shot at Dayton Moore for not signing Torii Hunter. He offered the guy $18,000,000 per year, and Hunter turned him down. Hunter turns 35 this month, so he'll be 37 or 38 by the time the Royals are ready to compete. In the meantime, we've spent extra money signing draft picks who slid in the draft due to signability issues. I'll take that over a CF who's pushing 40 and earning 25% of the entire payroll.
You got owned when you brought up batting average and RBI as your metrics for evaluation.

Saul Good
07-05-2010, 06:45 PM
Again, how did a 120-loss Detroit franchise start to rebound?

They increased their payroll to $140,000,000 in 2008. They Royals had a payroll of $70,000,000. I guess that's Dayton Moore's fault. Somehow, I think he could have landed a few of those players if ownership doubled the payroll parameters.

If we're living in a fantasy world where we had $140,000,000 to play with, sure, let's grab Torii Hunter. Also, I'd like a unicorn.

As it sits, we were able to sign Grienke to an extension and sign draft picks that we never would have been able to if we had a 35 year old CF taking up 25% of our entire payroll.

Just for perspective, $22,000,000 per year would make him the 4th highest paid player in baseball. It would also make him the highest paid player in baseball not playing for the Yankees.

If CF was the one thing keeping us down, that would be one thing. Out of all of our needs in 2008, CF was just about at the bottom of the list, and this still holds true. DDJ isn't a prototype CF, but he's not holding us back. Dayton has made some poor moves. Why are you planting your flag in the ground over this one?

Saul Good
07-05-2010, 06:46 PM
You got owned when you brought up batting average and RBI as your metrics for evaluation.

Sorry for listing the triple crown numbers.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 06:47 PM
As it sits, we were able to sign Grienke to an extension and sign draft picks that we never would have been able to if we had a 35 year old CF taking up 25% of our entire payroll.


So we're going to overlook the fact that we've signed absolute worthless sacks of shit that have taken up more money?

And, obviously, we had ideas of increasing payroll quite a bit. 140? No. More than 70? Yes.

Is this a full-court DM apology?

CoMoChief
07-05-2010, 06:48 PM
Let me be perfectly clear when i say this.

The "Royals" and "sluggers" NEVER need to be said in the same sentence.

It's already a god damn shame that our mascot is named that, when his team is EXACTLY the complete opposite of what "slugging" means.

Reaper16
07-05-2010, 06:49 PM
Sorry for listing the triple crown numbers.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e57/Thereaper16/2vjso51jpg.gif

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 06:51 PM
How much "dead" money are we going to have on the books next year?

11 to Meche
3 to Kendall

Saul Good
07-05-2010, 06:59 PM
So we're going to overlook the fact that we've signed absolute worthless sacks of shit that have taken up more money?

And, obviously, we had ideas of increasing payroll quite a bit.

Is this a full-court DM apology?

I'm not going to overlook the bad signings at all. There have been some disasters, and I'll put Farsworth at the top of the list. You're basically saying that, if we got rid of all of our bad contracts, we could have signed Hunter. I'll agree, but I don't really see how this is grounded in reality. I'd have $150,000,000 if I'd just picked 6-13-26-14-9-33 on a powerball ticket. Hindsight is 20/20, and there isn't a team in the league that doesn't have dead weight on their team from a salary perspective.

The Royals have 12 players on their entire team making over $470,000. If we had signed Hunter for $22,000,000 instead of Guillen, Farnsworth, and Kendall, Hunter would make more than our next 20 highest paid players combined. I can't believe we're actually trying to pin this one on Dayton Moore.

DM has made plenty of mistakes, but I'm happy with his overall performance. The product on the field has improved greatly, and there is no reason to think that the talent level is about to increase precipitously over the next 2-3 years.

If we're looking at his mistakes, I'll throw a few out there.

1. Trey Hillman
2. Kyle Farnsworth
3. Coco Crisp
4. Kendall over Olivo
5. Mike Jacobs

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 07:05 PM
I'm not going to overlook the bad signings at all. There have been some disasters, and I'll put Farsworth at the top of the list. You're basically saying that, if we got rid of all of our bad contracts, we could have signed Hunter. I'll agree, but I don't really see how this is grounded in reality. I'd have $150,000,000 if I'd just picked 6-13-26-14-9-33 on a powerball ticket. Hindsight is 20/20, and there isn't a team in the league that doesn't have dead weight on their team from a salary perspective.


The problem is that it didn't take hindsight to say that Guillen, Farnsworth, and Kendall were huge mistakes.

It took common sense, and a shit ton of respected analysts were laughing their asses off at our ineptitude.

An honest mistake would be Cruz...Alex Gordon.

Anyway, it's not about 1 player, necessarily. The larger point in this discussion is ML roster management and construction, and DM has been a ****ing failure in these respects. So, no, we don't have an average ML team.

We have a ****ing atrociously assembled collection of shit, and we're all (correctly, at this point) putting all our hopes in our farm system.

Let's hope DM can draft (does Hochevar count today?) because his FA moves and trades haven't been too swift. At some point, these must improve or we'll never be true contenders.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 07:08 PM
One last thing: our ML payroll will need to increase, especially considering the promises made about a "new" stadium.

If we're back to waiting for a "window of opportunity," Glass should sell or move the team.

duncan_idaho
07-05-2010, 07:09 PM
I think assuming the Royals could have had Hunter at $22 million is a big leap.

Most expected him to be in the $15 million range considering his age... that's why when the Royals came in at $18 million/per, it was such a big deal. They went well above the perceived market value (we had a nice roundtable discussion about it at TSN when talking about FA that offseason. As the local Royals guy, I was given quite a hard time).

And then Home Depot Moreno matched the value. He probably would have matched the offer no matter how high the Royals went. Deez, you say what is another $4 million to the Royals? You're right, it isn't a ton. But it is even less to Moreno and the Angels.

The Royals weren't going to win that bidding war without doing something so astronomically stupid they crippled the franchise's ability to spend elsewhere.

Sure-Oz
07-05-2010, 07:10 PM
Just read something from the boston globe saying bairds #1 pick the year he was ousted was going to be lincecum, wonder if he is FOS or actually going to pick him if dayton wasnt hired

Saul Good
07-05-2010, 07:11 PM
The problem is that it didn't take hindsight to say that Guillen, Farnsworth, and Kendall were huge mistakes.

It took common sense, and a shit ton of respected analysts were laughing their asses off at our ineptitude.

An honest mistake would be Cruz...Alex Gordon.

Anyway, it's not about 1 player, necessarily. The larger point in this discussion is ML roster management and construction, and DM has been a ****ing failure in these respects. So, no, we don't have an average ML team.

We have a ****ing atrociously assembled collection of shit, and we're all (correctly, at this point) putting all our hopes in our farm system.

Let's hope DM can draft (does Hochevar count today?) because his FA moves and trades haven't been too swift. At some point, these must improve or we'll never be true contenders.

I can agree with most of this, but Guillen was the biggest stick who was willing to come to KC. I'll put that up there in the honest mistake category.

This team isn't nearly as bad as you seem to think it is. Moore's biggest mistakes have involved patching together over-priced stopgaps. That's not a huge problem in my eyes because our team hasn't been ready to compete. He's just looking to fill out a roster somehow.

We've got good, young talent at just about every position on the diamond (including MiLB), and we're absolutely stacked with LHP which is the currency of baseball. I like where this team is headed. Sorry if being realistic makes me retarded.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 07:12 PM
I think assuming the Royals could have had Hunter at $22 million is a big leap.

Most expected him to be in the $15 million range considering his age... that's why when the Royals came in at $18 million/per, it was such a big deal. They went well above the perceived market value (we had a nice roundtable discussion about it at TSN when talking about FA that offseason. As the local Royals guy, I was given quite a hard time).

And then Home Depot Moreno matched the value. He probably would have matched the offer no matter how high the Royals went. Deez, you say what is another $4 million to the Royals? You're right, it isn't a ton. But it is even less to Moreno and the Angels.

The Royals weren't going to win that bidding war without doing something so astronomically stupid they crippled the franchise's ability to spend elsewhere.

Very well could have been the case. I would have liked to have tried, at least, but I understand what you're saying.

We could have been in a no-win situation.

Miles
07-05-2010, 07:14 PM
How did a 120-loss Detroit team start to correct its course?

They started by vastly overpaying a few players like I-Rod and Magglio when they had a lot in there system for prospects.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 07:14 PM
Sorry if being realistic makes me retarded.

I don't think this at all. It's been a good discussion.

We just disagree on the overall talent level on the current ML roster. We agree about all the promise and potential on the farm, however.

My caution, though, is that even highly-rated prospects fail. If we have a 50% hit ratio, we'll be doing outstanding work.

Thus, we must supplement with astute FA signings and trades. Will Moore be able to do this? Because so far he's made some astoundingly scary decisions.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 07:15 PM
They started by vastly overpaying a few players like I-Rod and Magglio when they had a lot in there system for prospects.

Exactly.

Saul Good
07-05-2010, 07:18 PM
They started by vastly overpaying a few players like I-Rod and Magglio when they had a lot in there system for prospects.

Exactly. If some of our prospects pan out, we can overpay to plug a hole or two. The time to overpay is when you've got the young core in place and you're making a push to take it to the next level.

I'd rather spend $22,000,000 a year trying to get from 83 wins to 93 wins than spend it trying to get from 63 wins to 73 wins.

duncan_idaho
07-05-2010, 07:18 PM
Deez, how can you on one hand complain about not overpaying for FAs, and then criticize for doing so?

Was $11 million/year for Guillen too much? Yes. About $3 million/season. But considering his numbers in year 1 and this year, it isn't that bad a deal. He was a productive hitter in 2008. He is a productive hitter this year. Would you pay $8 million per for those numbers?

Meche was a very good signing until Trey Hillman allowed him to throw his arm off.

To say Moore has made no positive moves at the MLB level is not accurate. How about the Bannister trade? Callaspo? Signing Ron Mahay? Hell, even the widely criticized Betancourt trade has turned out to be a win for the Royals (Cortes has collapsed, and Saito continues to be a tiny, average A ball pitcher). If Crisp stays healthy last season, that trade is a win, too.

People can complain (and rightly so) about the Nunez/Jacobs swap, signing Kendall (though the second year of the contract is a team option), Farnsworth, etc. But to do so while saying Moore has made NO good moves is just not accurate.

Saul Good
07-05-2010, 07:19 PM
Exactly.

So what was in our system when Hunter was a FA that compares to what the Tigers had when they doubled their payroll?

duncan_idaho
07-05-2010, 07:21 PM
Just read something from the boston globe saying bairds #1 pick the year he was ousted was going to be lincecum, wonder if he is FOS or actually going to pick him if dayton wasnt hired

He's full of shit. Especially considering Moore kept Baird's scouts in place for that draft, and Hochevar was their choice.

Baird was in love with Andrew Miller. He was quoted as such in the KC Star, as I recall.

Tim Lincecum is a fluke happenstance. There's a reason he fell to No. 10. I still tend to lean towards the group that says his body can't hold up, long-term, to the stress his motion places on his body (Especially his shoulder).

Saul Good
07-05-2010, 07:24 PM
He's full of shit. Especially considering Moore kept Baird's scouts in place for that draft, and Hochevar was their choice.

Baird was in love with Andrew Miller. He was quoted as such in the KC Star, as I recall.

Tim Lincecum is a fluke happenstance. There's a reason he fell to No. 10. I still tend to lean towards the group that says his body can't hold up, long-term, to the stress his motion places on his body (Especially his shoulder).

Hell, if Lincecum's arm spontaneously combusts tomorrow, he was still a great pick.

duncan_idaho
07-05-2010, 07:30 PM
Exactly. If some of our prospects pan out, we can overpay to plug a hole or two. The time to overpay is when you've got the young core in place and you're making a push to take it to the next level.

I'd rather spend $22,000,000 a year trying to get from 83 wins to 93 wins than spend it trying to get from 63 wins to 73 wins.

Bingo.

The Tigers ran out kids like Bonderman and Craig Monroe and Thames and Robertson and Carlos Guillen and Inge while sucking through the 2005 season, building up a young core. Then signed a couple of big free agents. Don't forget that Ordonez was a bust signing (severe injury, questions about his future) coming into the 06 season.

Things just kind of fell into place in 2006. The young pitching core (Bonderman, Robertson) got a boost from Verlander and Zumaya. Curtis Granderson broke through on the offensive side, which was helped along by Ordonez playing up to his contract. Young guys like Monroe, Thames, Inge and Guillen had great offensive seasons.

Saul Good
07-05-2010, 07:30 PM
Just looking at some numbers:

A-Rod's 2010 salary: $33,000,000
Pittsburgh Pirates 2010 salary: $34,933,000

Saul Good
07-05-2010, 07:32 PM
Bingo.

The Tigers ran out kids like Bonderman and Craig Monroe and Thames and Robertson and Carlos Guillen and Inge while sucking through the 2005 season, building up a young core. Then signed a couple of big free agents. Don't forget that Ordonez was a bust signing (severe injury, questions about his future) coming into the 06 season.

Things just kind of fell into place in 2006. The young pitching core (Bonderman, Robertson) got a boost from Verlander and Zumaya. Curtis Granderson broke through on the offensive side, which was helped along by Ordonez playing up to his contract. Young guys like Monroe, Thames, Inge and Guillen had great offensive seasons.

2006 Tigers payroll = 2006 Royals payroll + Pittsburgh Pirates payroll + San Diego Padres payroll

duncan_idaho
07-05-2010, 07:36 PM
Hell, if Lincecum's arm spontaneously combusts tomorrow, he was still a great pick.

Yeah. I think he benefits a little from his home ballpark/home division (very pitcher-friendly venues), but he has been great.

Long-term, there are two guys I'd definitely rather have from that draft (Evan Longoria and Clayton Kershaw).

Saul Good
07-05-2010, 07:36 PM
Long-term, there are two guys I'd definitely rather have from that draft (Evan Longoria and Clayton Kershaw).

Over Lincecum?

duncan_idaho
07-05-2010, 07:43 PM
Over Lincecum?

Yes, long-term I would take both those players over Lincecum.

Kershaw has just as good an aresenal, he's lefthanded, and he's younger. They had nearly identical rookie campaigns, but Kershaw was barely 20 and Lincecum was 23.

Kershaw's ratios were just as good as Lincecum's last year - he just didn't work as many innings.

This year, they're nearly identical.

Longoria is a cornerstone offensive player at a premium position. Those players, to me and many others, hold more value than any starting pitcher.

10 years from now, Longoria and Kershaw will still be all-stars. I think Lincecum will have at least two scars on his shoulder by then...

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 07:47 PM
Deez, how can you on one hand complain about not overpaying for FAs, and then criticize for doing so?

To say Moore has made no positive moves at the MLB level is not accurate.

Because the player has to at least remotely justify the decision to sign him in the first place. The players whom I've referred to the most (Farnsworth, Kendall, Guillen) are stupid signings at damn near any price.

I haven't said this. But his work through trades and FA has been sub-par.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 07:49 PM
So what was in our system when Hunter was a FA that compares to what the Tigers had when they doubled their payroll?

Much, much less.

Which does not affect my larger point.

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 08:00 PM
Hell, even the widely criticized Betancourt trade has turned out to be a win for the Royals (Cortes has collapsed, and Saito continues to be a tiny, average A ball pitcher).


Not true because Betancourt is usually in the lineup.

And the worst part about this whole trade is that it gives a slight window into Moore's ability to evaluate ML talent. He looked out over the entire league, spotted the worst everyday player (literally), and said, "We need this guy. Now."

Forget that he was about to be released.

Look, when (please, please) Colon comes up next year and moves Betancourt off the position, it won't be any big deal. The trade hasn't killed us.

But DM has made a pattern of doing really, really stupid stuff. And his job will ride on the ability of Moose and Hosmer to be impact players.

Chief Roundup
07-05-2010, 08:21 PM
I heard a blurd on sportscenter that Dejesus and or Guillen were up for trade. Don't recall the whole context? What is up with that?

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-05-2010, 10:39 PM
Sorry for listing the triple crown numbers.

It's not 1950, anymore, dumbass. Just quit, you have no idea what you are talking about.

If you want metrics for player ability, look up RAR, WAR, and OPS, as well as defensive metrics like UZR and Range Factor.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-05-2010, 10:43 PM
I heard a blurd on sportscenter that Dejesus and or Guillen were up for trade. Don't recall the whole context? What is up with that?

You'd be lucky to get a middling AA prospect for either one of those guys.

KevB
07-05-2010, 10:46 PM
You'd be lucky to get a middling AA prospect for either one of those guys.

You'd get more than that for DeJesus.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-05-2010, 10:52 PM
You'd get more than that for DeJesus.

No you won't. He's a 30 year old OF with poor range and middling power. His BA and OPS are being inflated by an unsustainable BABIP that is 40+ points above his career average.

Once his luck normalizes, he'll return to what he's always been: a fourth outfielder.

SnakeXJones
07-05-2010, 10:53 PM
No you won't. He's a 30 year old OF with poor range and middling power. His BA and OPS are being inflated by an unsustainable BABIP that is 40+ points above his career average.

Once his luck normalizes, he'll return to what he's always been: a fourth outfielder. If u think so

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 10:56 PM
No you won't. He's a 30 year old OF with poor range and middling power. His BA and OPS are being inflated by an unsustainable BABIP that is 40+ points above his career average.

Once his luck normalizes, he'll return to what he's always been: a fourth outfielder.

He's a tough case because he's a viable ML player, but his skill set doesn't project anywhere on the diamond, unfortunately.

I think some team would bite on a trade and offer a legitimate return, which is exactly why the Royals need to be proactive in shopping and moving him.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-05-2010, 11:00 PM
He's a tough case because he's a viable ML player, but his skill set doesn't project anywhere on the diamond, unfortunately.

I think some team would bite on a trade and offer a legitimate return, which is exactly why the Royals need to be proactive in shopping and moving him.

He's in his walk year, and I can't imagine he'd qualify as a type B FA.

I also can't think of any contending teams that need a starting OF (not that he is one on a contender).

DeezNutz
07-05-2010, 11:03 PM
He's in his walk year, and I can't imagine he'd qualify as a type B FA.

I also can't think of any contending teams that need a starting OF (not that he is one on a contender).

He's been linked to the Giants, Padres, Red Sox, and Braves.

Reaper16
07-05-2010, 11:03 PM
He's in his walk year, and I can't imagine he'd qualify as a type B FA.

I also can't think of any contending teams that need a starting OF (not that he is one on a contender).
Now I want DDJ to get traded for a better-than-middling prospect so that I can call you a fucktaster.

KevB
07-05-2010, 11:15 PM
He's in his walk year, and I can't imagine he'd qualify as a type B FA.

I also can't think of any contending teams that need a starting OF (not that he is one on a contender).

There's a club option for next year at roughly $6M, so he's under club control through the 2011 season. He's a decent hitter and fielder, and very consistent and reliable. He won't win you a pennant certainly, but he won't lose it for you either. He can play center for a stretch of games if he had to, which gives him some versatility. And let's be honest, the dude is hitting .330 and getting on base at a 40% clip. Sustainable BABIP or not, some GM out there is going to bite on his numbers this year and be willing to give a decent return. The question is, do the Royals overvalue the guy and ask for too much (the answer is probably yes).

Boris The Great
07-06-2010, 12:55 AM
I cant imagine he\'d qualify as a type B FA.

As of this past weekend, DeJesus is projecting as a type A. He would have to get in a big slump to fall out of B.

alanm
07-06-2010, 06:47 AM
Just read something from the boston globe saying bairds #1 pick the year he was ousted was going to be lincecum, wonder if he is FOS or actually going to pick him if dayton wasnt hiredThe 2 guys I wanted the the most the last few yrs are playing for the Giants. Lincecum and Posmer. :cuss:

duncan_idaho
07-06-2010, 06:48 AM
He's in his walk year, and I can't imagine he'd qualify as a type B FA.

I also can't think of any contending teams that need a starting OF (not that he is one on a contender).

I read over the weekend that Elias had just qualified him as a Type A free agent.

There are several contending teams that need a starting outfielder:

Boston is playing Daniel Nata everyday in left field.

San Francisco has been starting Nate Schierholz (and yes, that's as bad as it sounds).

San Diego's primary three outfielders are all hitting sub-.240 for the season.

Atlanta also needs OF help, though a righty power bat would seem to be its biggest need.

All four of those teams could use a guy to plug into the leadoff role. DeJesus would fit. Also, when he plays LF, he's one of the elite defensive LF in the game. He had an outstanding zone rating (topped only by Carl Crawford, if I remember correctly) when he was a primary LF...

Saul Good
07-06-2010, 07:33 AM
He's in his walk year, and I can't imagine he'd qualify as a type B FA.

I also can't think of any contending teams that need a starting OF (not that he is one on a contender).
Wow. You've managed to make a baseball take that's as misinformed as your nfl draft insight. That's no easy task. Plus, you managed to do it in your typical chest thumping, cock squeezing style despite the fact that everyone else is having a civil discourse. Run along and take your "clausen at 5 gholston at 4, ddj won't even be a type b free agent" clown shoes with you.

DeezNutz
07-06-2010, 07:37 AM
The 2 guys I wanted the the most the last few yrs are playing for the Giants. Lincecum and Posmer. :cuss:

Posey. I admit that I didn't want the kid b/c I thought he'd project to a light-hitting catcher.

Thought Wieters was the much better prospect a year earlier.

Brainiac
12-12-2010, 01:29 PM
It seems like a good time to post a picture of the Bambino.

http://baberuthfacts.com/images/babe-ruth.jpg

Ebolapox
12-12-2010, 01:41 PM
wow, not random at all.

Brainiac
12-12-2010, 01:49 PM
wow, not random at all.
At least I didn't start a new thread for it. :clap:

CoMoChief
12-12-2010, 02:17 PM
Have the Royals EVER signed any FA's that have been worth 2 shits in the last oh I dunno...20+ yrs? What makes anyone ever think this is going to change? Remember this is an organization that wants to trade their best pitcher since David Cone. That's how much they care about winning. They're nothing more than a farm system for the teams that DO care about winning. I'm done rooting for the Royals. It makes no sense to root for them.

K the Chiefs game is on now.

Pitt Gorilla
12-12-2010, 02:31 PM
Have the Royals EVER signed any FA's that have been worth 2 shits in the last oh I dunno...20+ yrs? What makes anyone ever think this is going to change? Remember this is an organization that wants to trade their best pitcher since David Cone. That's how much they care about winning. They're nothing more than a farm system for the teams that DO care about winning. I'm done rooting for the Royals. It makes no sense to root for them.

K the Chiefs game is on now.Honestly, nobody wanted you rooting for them in the first place. We certainly don't want you back on the bandwagon in two years.

CoMoChief
12-12-2010, 03:38 PM
Honestly, nobody wanted you rooting for them in the first place. We certainly don't want you back on the bandwagon in two years.

HAHAHA

you're a god damn fool thinking the Royals are gonna be anywhere near relevant in 2 yrs.

duncan_idaho
12-12-2010, 03:56 PM
Have the Royals EVER signed any FA's that have been worth 2 shits in the last oh I dunno...20+ yrs? What makes anyone ever think this is going to change? Remember this is an organization that wants to trade their best pitcher since David Cone. That's how much they care about winning. They're nothing more than a farm system for the teams that DO care about winning. I'm done rooting for the Royals. It makes no sense to root for them.

K the Chiefs game is on now.

Typical front-runner fan response.

Move along, everyone.

Bacon Cheeseburger
12-12-2010, 03:57 PM
WTF is this shit doing on the front page?

CoMoChief
12-13-2010, 12:31 PM
Typical front-runner fan response.

Move along, everyone.

Hahaha, whatever man, I'm just tired of supporting ($$$) a franchise that "CLEARLY" doesn't care about winning, and hasn't since the Ewing Kauffman era, when that is what we expect as fans that pay for ticket prices, parking, concessions etc while at the games.

I still try to go to the Allstar Game. But that's different. I just think it comes to a point where when a franchise doesn't care about winning, then I'll stop caring about a team and stop giving them my money until they do start to care. This isn't the NFL where there's a salary cap, this is MLB where you can essentially pay any player whatever amount to keep him etc. Glass cares about making profit....THAT's IT, he runs this like he ran Walmart. If he cared more about winning we'd see better players on the field.

Reaper16
12-13-2010, 12:33 PM
WTF is this shit doing on the front page?
Ask Branianc. It was his nonsensical, masturbatory bump.

Demonpenz
12-13-2010, 01:36 PM
The shitty thing is the other teams in the divisions are really good and will be good in 2013 as well.

Brainiac
12-13-2010, 01:41 PM
Ask Branianc. It was his nonsensical, masturbatory bump.
I'd take offense to that if it weren't true.

CoMoChief
12-13-2010, 01:42 PM
The shitty thing is the other teams in the divisions are really good and will be good in 2013 as well.

except the fact the Royals won't be any good.

I'll shit my pants if the Royals ever win 90 games in my lifetime.

Saul Good
12-13-2010, 01:42 PM
At least I didn't start a new thread for it. :clap:
You stole my idea. My first ever post on the planet was a nod to Chico Lind and his 1 career HR.

Brainiac
12-13-2010, 01:46 PM
Have the Royals EVER signed any FA's that have been worth 2 shits in the last oh I dunno...20+ yrs? What makes anyone ever think this is going to change? Remember this is an organization that wants to trade their best pitcher since David Cone. That's how much they care about winning. They're nothing more than a farm system for the teams that DO care about winning. I'm done rooting for the Royals. It makes no sense to root for them.

K the Chiefs game is on now.
If you actually followed the Royals you'd understand why they are shopping him.

Demonpenz
12-13-2010, 01:46 PM
except the fact the Royals won't be any good.

I'll shit my pants if the Royals ever win 90 games in my lifetime.

better get a back up pair of umbro's for 2013

eazyb81
12-13-2010, 01:48 PM
except the fact the Royals won't be any good.

I'll shit my pants if the Royals ever win 90 games in my lifetime.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=221449 (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=221449&highlight=CoMoChief)

Keep going, please.

Pitt Gorilla
12-13-2010, 02:40 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=221449 (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=221449&highlight=CoMoChief)

Keep going, please.What was Como's prediction on the UNI/KU game?

Start Croyle
12-13-2010, 02:50 PM
I want to see PUJULS IN BLUE!

Make it happen!

Brainiac
12-13-2010, 02:51 PM
I want to see PUJULS IN BLUE!

Make it happen!
The first thing you should be thinking about is changing your user name.