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Buck
07-13-2010, 07:28 AM
Breaking news on ESPN right now.

They say he has suffered a heart attack.

P.S. he is 80 years old.

blaise
07-13-2010, 07:30 AM
He can fire Billy Martin in the afterlife.

Bane
07-13-2010, 07:33 AM
Is there a salary cap in hell?:fire:

Brainiac
07-13-2010, 07:35 AM
He lived 80 years, was fabulously wealthy, and owned the Yankees for the last quarter of a century.

I'd say he lived a pretty good life.

blaise
07-13-2010, 07:35 AM
Gosh, I hope the Yankees will be able to get by.

big nasty kcnut
07-13-2010, 07:36 AM
Hope he'll be better i'm not a yankee fan but he alway is like a rival that you always wanted to beat.

Bane
07-13-2010, 07:36 AM
He lived 80 years, was fabulously wealthy, and owned the Yankees for the last quarter of a century.

I'd say he lived a pretty good life.

I'd take it.

Crush
07-13-2010, 07:36 AM
UPDATE: ESPN is reporting that he suffered a massive heart attack.

Old Dog
07-13-2010, 07:39 AM
RIP George. I hate the Yankees but you have to respect him.

Gonzo
07-13-2010, 07:41 AM
Well, he can put together a pretty good team of doctors I'm sure.
Posted via Mobile Device

Deberg_1990
07-13-2010, 07:41 AM
Excuse me if i dont shed a tear much...

Bane
07-13-2010, 07:41 AM
RIP George. I hate the Yankees but you have to respect him.

Especially when he spends $300 million a year,and still makes money on his team.:clap:

Buck
07-13-2010, 07:44 AM
Well, he can put together a pretty good team of doctors I'm sure.
Posted via Mobile Device

This probably isn't a good time to laugh about something like this, but ROFL dude.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-13-2010, 07:45 AM
Far better people than that cocksucker die everyday.

Fuck him and his Private Dicks.

Buck
07-13-2010, 07:46 AM
Do you guys remember the Steinbrenner Death Watch from SNL in the mid 1990s?

blaise
07-13-2010, 07:47 AM
They're saying he's dead now.

ChiTown
07-13-2010, 07:48 AM
Far better people than that one who sucks the penis die everyday.

**** him and his Private Dicks.

This.

Old Dog
07-13-2010, 07:48 AM
They're saying he's dead now.

still?

blaise
07-13-2010, 07:49 AM
still?

Did it say he was already? Maybe I missed it. I just read he had a heart attack.

Buck
07-13-2010, 07:49 AM
They're saying he's dead now.

Who is they?

Buck
07-13-2010, 07:50 AM
Its true.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/sports/George-Steinbrenner-Dies-of-Massive-Heart-Attack-98314429.html

Old Dog
07-13-2010, 07:51 AM
Yeah, that's why I said RIP about 10 minutes ago.
ESPN is now reporting it, others were a bit ago

Bane
07-13-2010, 07:51 AM
Who is they?

Just read it on fox news.

blaise
07-13-2010, 07:51 AM
Who is they?

I'm listening to Peter Gammons do a interview and the radio station said it. I think they said yahoo sports is where they got it.

blaise
07-13-2010, 07:55 AM
Yeah, that's why I said RIP about 10 minutes ago.
ESPN is now reporting it, others were a bit ago

Ok, thanks scoop.

JASONSAUTO
07-13-2010, 07:58 AM
RIP george

Ebolapox
07-13-2010, 07:58 AM
it's poor form to disrespect the dead; but fuck him.

Bane
07-13-2010, 08:00 AM
Oh yeah....

Brock
07-13-2010, 08:01 AM
Satan's lieutenant returns home.

Frazod
07-13-2010, 08:03 AM
Far better people than that cocksucker die everyday.

Fuck him and his Private Dicks.

:thumb:

GoHuge
07-13-2010, 08:05 AM
I respect his business savvy, the man, and what he did with the Yankees, but hated it at the same time as a Royals fan or if you're a fan of any other team I'm sure you did too. You have to say though he did more than any other owner to help make his team win. RIP George.

With that said I hope his moron sons follow him very promptly.

Deberg_1990
07-13-2010, 08:07 AM
My fave image of him....

i think it was the 1980 playoff series after Brett hit the HR off of Gossage....they showed him walking out in disgust. ROFL

Amnorix
07-13-2010, 08:11 AM
RIP. He was the "enemy" and easy to vilify and hate, but no one would suggest that you wouldn't want YOUR team to have an owner like him.

Otter
07-13-2010, 08:17 AM
He was at the top of the food chain for many years until the day he died in a city that chews people up and spits them out faster than Rosie goes thru a Halloween size bag of M&Ms. Don't have to like him but gotta respect his accomplishments.

RIP

Brock
07-13-2010, 08:19 AM
I don't like him or respect his accomplishments. BIH.

cdcox
07-13-2010, 08:21 AM
I had a kind of weird reaction upon reading the thread title. My initial gut reaction was that this was impossible. I think that my sub-conscience linked him so intimately with the Yankees that I figured as long as the Yankees are around, George would be around. Then I blinked and it hit me that George is just as mortal as the rest of us. RIP.

ChiTown
07-13-2010, 08:24 AM
I don't like him or respect his accomplishments. BIH.

Ditto. F him

Donger
07-13-2010, 08:25 AM
Wow, this thread sure has brought out the class in some people.

Mojo Jojo
07-13-2010, 08:25 AM
Sports are made great by great stories, and George provided many great stories.
I only hope when he got to the Pearly Gates he didn't try to fire St. Peter.

Frazod
07-13-2010, 08:31 AM
It just occurred to me, the All Star Game just became unwatchable - it'll be nothing but a Yankmee/Scumbrenner lovefest.

Too bad the old fuck couldn't have held out for another day. 4321

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 08:36 AM
I hate the Yankees and everything about them.

At the same time, Steinbrenner is about 20 years removed from his lowest point. I really do believe he had a hand in Billy Martin's death (obviously indirectly), and his conduct throughout most of the 80s was pretty dispicable.

But he mellowed out a lot. From about 1990 through the end of his run, all he cared about was winning games. He wasn't a racist (though calling Irabu a fat toad was pretty funny), he wasn't a cheat. He was just a guy that really wanted to win. He spent a ton of money on his club, but it's not like he was printing counterfeit cash to do so. He was plowing earnings back into the team (a vast majority of which were your standard corporate TV dollars). The same fans that ride David Glass for pocketing his profits will kill Steinbrenner for spending them on the club.

Anything that pains Yankees fans brings at least a little bit of a smile to my face, but I certainly don't agree with the vitriole sent Steinbrenner's way.

Reaper16
07-13-2010, 08:36 AM
He changed the game of baseball forever. Not for the better, either.

Slainte
07-13-2010, 08:41 AM
Steinbrenner donated an absolute shitload of money to the Tampa-area kids sports programs. It might not be mjuch of an exaggeration to say that he's fiscally responsible for a third of the little-league ball parks in that area. His generosity will be warmly remembered. RIP.

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 08:44 AM
He changed the game of baseball forever. Not for the better, either.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/firsts/first9.shtml

How many of those are Steinbrenner Yankees?

Here's a hint: You can't divide by it.

Let's not act like it's just NY that drove salaries. Houston cracked the million barrier. The CHW made Albert Belle the first 7 digit ballplayer. Toronto gave $17 million to Delgado. Boston first broke $20 million. Sure, the Yankees are paying A-Rod a boatload, but it was Tom Hicks' dumbass that gave him the $25 million baseline when he bid against himself to begin with.

Shit, the Cardinals will likely be the first to break $30 million.

Did the Yankees do their part? Absolutely - but it would've happened with or without them. The Yankees simply benefit the most from the direction the game happened to go. They aren't the ones that sent it there.

Again, how often do you complain that Glass doesn't put enough money into the Royals? If you're among the many that do, why doesn't the same standard apply to Steinbrenner? The man could've made another hundred million/season but chose instead to invest it into his team.

What's to revile about that?

gblowfish
07-13-2010, 08:44 AM
I don't like him or respect him, either.
You make your own karma. He was not a good person. Lots of douchebags give money to charity. You can't buy your way into heaven.

I take this news pretty much the same as when the Ayatollah kicked off. No great loss, seriously. I'll feel the same when Al Davis kicks it.

Red Beans
07-13-2010, 08:48 AM
And here I thought he'd sold his soul to the devil so that he could live to 150. I guess I was wrong...

OnTheWarpath58
07-13-2010, 08:50 AM
I hate the Yankees and everything about them.

At the same time, Steinbrenner is about 20 years removed from his lowest point. I really do believe he had a hand in Billy Martin's death (obviously indirectly), and his conduct throughout most of the 80s was pretty dispicable.

But he mellowed out a lot. From about 1990 through the end of his run, all he cared about was winning games. He wasn't a racist (though calling Irabu a fat toad was pretty funny), he wasn't a cheat. He was just a guy that really wanted to win. He spent a ton of money on his club, but it's not like he was printing counterfeit cash to do so. He was plowing earnings back into the team (a vast majority of which were your standard corporate TV dollars). The same fans that ride David Glass for pocketing his profits will kill Steinbrenner for spending them on the club.

Anything that pains Yankees fans brings at least a little bit of a smile to my face, but I certainly don't agree with the vitriole sent Steinbrenner's way.

Good post, DJ.

Funny how those here that are still slinging hate an hour after his death are the same people that would kill to have an owner that did what GS did to help the Yankees win.

If nothing changed but the uniform, and Steinbrenner was owner of the Royals - and had the same success he had in NY - people here would be mourning him respectfully.

Jealousy is a bitch, I guess.

tk13
07-13-2010, 08:51 AM
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/firsts/first9.shtml

How many of those are Steinbrenner Yankees?

Here's a hint: You can't divide by it.

Let's not act like it's just NY that drove salaries. Houston cracked the million barrier. The CHW made Albert Belle the first 7 digit ballplayer. Toronto gave $17 million to Delgado. Boston first broke $20 million. Sure, the Yankees are paying A-Rod a boatload, but it was Tom Hicks' dumbass that gave him the $25 million baseline when he bid against himself to begin with.

Shit, the Cardinals will likely be the first to break $30 million.

Did the Yankees do their part? Absolutely - but it would've happened with or without them. The Yankees simply benefit the most from the direction the game happened to go. They aren't the ones that sent it there.

Again, how often do you complain that Glass doesn't put enough money into the Royals? If you're among the many that do, why doesn't the same standard apply to Steinbrenner? The man could've made another hundred million/season but chose instead to invest it into his team.

What's to revile about that?

While talent evaluation has been a far bigger issue than money for the Royals in recent years... there is definitely a difference between paying one or two stars big money and doubling up most of the league in payroll.
Posted via Mobile Device

OnTheWarpath58
07-13-2010, 08:52 AM
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/firsts/first9.shtml

Again, how often do you complain that Glass doesn't put enough money into the Royals? If you're among the many that do, why doesn't the same standard apply to Steinbrenner? The man could've made another hundred million/season but chose instead to invest it into his team.

What's to revile about that?

Exactly.

Bill Parcells
07-13-2010, 08:54 AM
RIP Boss ;) he was senile near the end. so at least his suffering is over and the Yankees won a series before he died.

Reaper16
07-13-2010, 08:56 AM
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/firsts/first9.shtml

How many of those are Steinbrenner Yankees?

Here's a hint: You can't divide by it.

Let's not act like it's just NY that drove salaries. Houston cracked the million barrier. The CHW made Albert Belle the first 7 digit ballplayer. Toronto gave $17 million to Delgado. Boston first broke $20 million. Sure, the Yankees are paying A-Rod a boatload, but it was Tom Hicks' dumbass that gave him the $25 million baseline when he bid against himself to begin with.

Shit, the Cardinals will likely be the first to break $30 million.

Did the Yankees do their part? Absolutely - but it would've happened with or without them. The Yankees simply benefit the most from the direction the game happened to go. They aren't the ones that sent it there.

Again, how often do you complain that Glass doesn't put enough money into the Royals? If you're among the many that do, why doesn't the same standard apply to Steinbrenner? The man could've made another hundred million/season but chose instead to invest it into his team.

What's to revile about that?
I'm not sure that the largest single contracts should be the only barometer of how salaries were driven up and who is responsible. George signed plenty of crazy-high contracts. Plenty. The elite players who get those record-setting contracts got so much money in part because they were so much better than lesser players who were getting more and more money. George was certainly instrumental (though not alone, obviously) in that.

Bill Parcells
07-13-2010, 08:59 AM
I also want to add that Steinbrenner had absolutely nothing to do with building the Yankees dynasty in the 90's. all the credit goes to Stick Michael for building that team.

blaise
07-13-2010, 09:02 AM
I know Yankee fans who really only get lukewarm these days over Yankee wins. It's like, "ok, great. They won again." Most of my family are Yankee fans, they're all originally from New York State, and there's not much of an emotional attachment to the current team. It's just sort a group of hired bats and arms.

Brock
07-13-2010, 09:03 AM
George was a major dick. Forget the economics of baseball, he treated people like SHIT.

burt
07-13-2010, 09:04 AM
Wow. He was old, but it is still a shock to me. RIP George.


Oh, did he take John Goodman with him?

penchief
07-13-2010, 09:05 AM
Steinbrenner donated an absolute shitload of money to the Tampa-area kids sports programs. It might not be mjuch of an exaggeration to say that he's fiscally responsible for a third of the little-league ball parks in that area. His generosity will be warmly remembered. RIP.

Yeah, most people only know the Yankees side of Steinbrenner. But the man was a huge philanthropist. He donated tons of money to a lot of causes. From the olympics to college band programs and everything in between. Most of it without any fanfare because that was the way he wanted it.

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 09:06 AM
While talent evaluation has been a far bigger issue than money for the Royals in recent years... there is definitely a difference between paying one or two stars big money and doubling up most of the league in payroll.
Posted via Mobile Device

So should he have just pocketed the revenue? When Glass does that, he gets killed for it. Again, Steinbrenner wasn't printing money. He built a champion that made tons of money and he put that money back into his team.

Steinbrenner bought the Yankees for $10 million because they spent a fair amount of time lost in the wilderness. The Yankees were one of the last teams to integrate and did not handle the late 60s to early 70s very well. They were old, they were slow, they were undertalented. They were well behind most of baseball during that time.

He bought them in 1973 and by 1975 they won a championship. He made major changes throughout that organization that turned it around. He proceeded to continue to plow his own money into that team and made it a winner. The Yankees weren't making money before he bought the team, they started making money because he bought the team. Money he chose to re-invest in the club.

Everyone acts like he took over a world-beater and that's just not the case. Steinbrenner is possibly the single greatest team owner in the history of American Sports.

Bill Parcells
07-13-2010, 09:07 AM
George was a major dick. Forget the economics of baseball, he treated people like SHIT.

I agree. when you go to the new Yankee stadium he makes employees walk around with a sign with a Yankee emblem on it saying ''How may I help you''. I'm a boss and I would never make any of my subordinates do anything I wouldn't do myself. that is just a humiliating job for those kids.

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 09:08 AM
George was a major dick. Forget the economics of baseball, he treated people like SHIT.

I'm sure you can speak authoritatively to that from your perch upon an ivory tower in Lawrence, Kansas.

Brock
07-13-2010, 09:09 AM
I'm sure you can speak authoritatively to that from your perch upon an ivory tower in Lawrence, Kansas.

Listen, I'm sorry if the guy was your beloved uncle or something, but I've read enough stories from enough people to know what the truth is.

penchief
07-13-2010, 09:10 AM
I don't like him or respect him, either.
You make your own karma. He was not a good person. Lots of douchebags give money to charity. You can't buy your way into heaven.

I take this news pretty much the same as when the Ayatollah kicked off. No great loss, seriously. I'll feel the same when Al Davis kicks it.

I doubt you know very much at all about what drove Steinbrenner's philanthropy. It certainly wasn't the publicity. Dude could have made a big deal out of all the money he's donated to tons of different causes but that wasn't the way he wanted it. He could easily have used it to soften his image but he lived life the way he wanted and didn't give two shits what you thought of him.

penchief
07-13-2010, 09:12 AM
Listen, I'm sorry if the guy was your beloved uncle or something, but I've read enough stories from enough people to know what the truth is.

Such as?

ChiTown
07-13-2010, 09:12 AM
It just occurred to me, the All Star Game just became unwatchable - it'll be nothing but a Yankmee/Scumbrenner lovefest.

Too bad the old **** couldn't have held out for another day. 4321

People actually watch the ASG?

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 09:13 AM
Listen, I'm sorry if the guy was your beloved uncle or something, but I've read enough stories from enough people to know what the truth is.

So just so we're clear - you're basing your opinion on the man - i.e. that he should "burn in hell" - on nothing more than "what you've read"? From Lawrence, Kansas? An informed opinion based on a vast survey of literary sources, I'm sure.

I pray that you're never the deciding member of a jury.

blaise
07-13-2010, 09:13 AM
I don't know why some people expect others to cheer the Yankees success while they have some players making as much as entire teams. That's the nature of it. That's fine that the Yankees use the system to their advantage, but you can't think people are going to say, "Hooray for them. What a fantastic job they're doing spending $275,000,000 a year. Thank you for beating our brains in every year. We're sorry if you got dirty while you were stomping on our team."

Frazod
07-13-2010, 09:14 AM
I doubt you know very much at all about what drove Steinbrenner's philanthropy. It certainly wasn't the publicity. Dude could have made a big deal out of all the money he's donated to tons of different causes but that wasn't the way he wanted it. He could easily have used it to soften his image but he lived life the way he wanted and didn't give two shits what you thought of him.

I'm sure he didn't give two shits what you thought about him, either.

Bill Parcells
07-13-2010, 09:16 AM
I'm sure he didn't give two shits what you thought about him, either.

Fraz, serious question. if he was owner of your beloved Cardinals and did exactly the same thing for them as he did for the Yankees, what would your opinion of him be? :evil:

nychief
07-13-2010, 09:16 AM
good riddance.

burt
07-13-2010, 09:17 AM
So just so we're clear - you're basing your opinion on the man - i.e. that he should "burn in hell" - on nothing more than "what you've read"? From Lawrence, Kansas? An informed opinion based on a vast survey of literary sources, I'm sure.

I pray that you're never the deciding member of a jury.

So.....how's Columbia, Missouri? Mr. Kettle......

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 09:17 AM
I don't know why some people expect others to cheer the Yankees success while they have some players making as much as entire teams. That's the nature of it. That's fine that the Yankees use the system to their advantage, but you can't think people are going to say, "Hooray for them. What a fantastic job they're doing spending $275,000,000 a year. Thank you for beating our brains in every year. We're sorry if you got dirty while you were stomping on our team."

Who expects anyone to cheer the Yankees?

Fuck that, I hate 'em. I hope they lose every game they play. I remember Gonzalez hitting that flare over 2b against Rivera almost as fondly as I remember Wainwright punching out Inge on a slider.

If the Cubs played the Yankees in the World Series, I'd probably root for Al Qaeda.

But I'm not going to diminish Steinbrenner's life as a result of it.

The two operate independantly of each other.

RJ
07-13-2010, 09:18 AM
RIP Steinbrenner.

I hated your teams but I wish my Orioles had an owner as committed to winning as you were.

burt
07-13-2010, 09:18 AM
I'm sure he didn't give two shits what you thought about him, either.

I don't think he gave two or three shits about me. But I still wish hi RIP.

Brock
07-13-2010, 09:18 AM
So just so we're clear - you're basing your opinion on the man - i.e. that he should "burn in hell" - on nothing more than "what you've read"? From Lawrence, Kansas? An informed opinion based on a vast survey of literary sources, I'm sure.

I pray that you're never the deciding member of a jury.

WTF does where I live have to do with anything?

penchief
07-13-2010, 09:18 AM
I'm sure he didn't give two shits what you thought about him, either.

Exactly. I wasn't a big fan either. I disliked his attitude and the way he turned the yankees into a circus during the eighties. But there is another side to the man that I do respect. A side that a lot of you don't care to know about or acknowledge.

Was he overly demanding? Probably. Does he deserve the disrespect being shown by some on this board? Only God knows the answer to that.

ChiTown
07-13-2010, 09:18 AM
So.....how's Columbia, Missouri? Mr. Kettle......

Shhhh!

He's an informed member of our society. Let him continue his arrogant little rant.

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 09:19 AM
So.....how's Columbia, Missouri? Mr. Kettle......

Care to advise me as to what character judgments I've passed?

I've spoken directly to his actions as an owner.

I don't know Steinbrenner well enough to speak to the man as a person. Nor does anyone else in this thread.

RJ
07-13-2010, 09:21 AM
I agree. when you go to the new Yankee stadium he makes employees walk around with a sign with a Yankee emblem on it saying ''How may I help you''. I'm a boss and I would never make any of my subordinates do anything I wouldn't do myself. that is just a humiliating job for those kids.

That doesn't sound so terrible.

Is it some sort of big sandwich sign? Or is it more like a name tag?

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 09:22 AM
WTF does where I live have to do with anything?

Just exactly how much information related to George Steinbrenner has made its way to Lawrence lately?

Do you think most folks in NY are poised to speak authoritatively to the personal merits of Bill Self?

Being within, say, 1000 miles of the person you are personally attacking might be a good place to start.

Bill Parcells
07-13-2010, 09:23 AM
That doesn't sound so terrible.

Is it some sort of big sandwich sign? Or is it more like a name tag?

It looks like a ping pong paddle. only bigger. I have a pic with my friend holding it. I wouldn't make anybody do that. it's just silly.

Frazod
07-13-2010, 09:23 AM
Fraz, serious question. if he was owner of your beloved Cardinals and did exactly the same thing for them as he did for the Yankees, what would your opinion of him be? :evil:

Well, that's kind of silly question, since the economic realities of a small market would pretty much preclude anybody in St. Louis or any other smaller city from sinking cash into an organization the way Steinbrenner did, regardless of how much they might want to. As small market teams go, the success the Cardinals have amassed (we are No. 2 in World Series wins, after all) is probably about the best we can hope for. We're competitive most years, win the division about half the time, occasionally go to the World Series and on average win it about once a decade.

But if some dream billionaire materialized out of the ether and started buying every big time free agent available? I guess I wouldn't mind it any more than you do, but it still wouldn't be right.

There should be a salary cap in baseball. If you're in a Corvette and I'm an Impala, the race isn't exactly fair.

burt
07-13-2010, 09:24 AM
Care to advise me as to what character judgments I've passed?

I've spoken directly to his actions as an owner.

I don't know Steinbrenner well enough to speak to the man as a person. Nor does anyone else in this thread.

I don't disagree.... But he has opinions based on what he's read. You have only read or heard about his actions as an owner on tv. He has the right to his... and you yours.

I just found it funny that you, from Columbia..... were saying...."from Lawrence, Kansas?"

Bill Parcells
07-13-2010, 09:25 AM
That doesn't sound so terrible.

Is it some sort of big sandwich sign? Or is it more like a name tag?

I'll tell you this though. in the bleacher area I got a 16oz stella for $8. behind home plate a bottle of Bud was $12 :cuss: and 3 sliders with fries was also $12. if you go there make sure you are already drunk and full like I was ;)

Brock
07-13-2010, 09:25 AM
Just exactly how much information related to George Steinbrenner has made its way to Lawrence lately?

Do you think most folks in NY are poised to speak authoritatively to the personal merits of Bill Self?

Being within, say, 1000 miles of the person you are personally attacking might be a good place to start.

Well, let's see, there are several books on the subject, news stories, articles, columns, etc. What do we base our opinions on any public person on? Do I need to live next door to Ken Lay to think he's an awful person?

RJ
07-13-2010, 09:25 AM
A lot of people who die get disrespected here on CP.

John Goodman is a notable exception, of course.

burt
07-13-2010, 09:27 AM
Well, that's kind of silly question, since the economic realities of a small market would pretty much preclude anybody in St. Louis or any other smaller city from sinking cash into an organization the way Steinbrenner did, regardless of how much they might want to. As small market teams go, the success the Cardinals have amassed (we are No. 2 in World Series wins, after all) is probably about the best we can hope for. We're competitive most years, win the division about half the time, occasionally go to the World Series and on average win it about once a decade.

But if some dream billionaire materialized out of the ether and started buying every big time free agent available? I guess I wouldn't mind it any more than you do, but it still wouldn't be right.

There should be a salary cap in baseball. If you're in a Corvette and I'm an Impala, the race isn't exactly fair.

I agree totally. And to add salt to the wound.... I am struggling to make it, yet many sports figures are talking $60,000,000 to $80,000,000 for 6 years.

Bill Parcells
07-13-2010, 09:27 AM
Well, that's kind of silly question, since the economic realities of a small market would pretty much preclude anybody in St. Louis or any other smaller city from sinking cash into an organization the way Steinbrenner did, regardless of how much they might want to. As small market teams go, the success the Cardinals have amassed (we are No. 2 in World Series wins, after all) is probably about the best we can hope for. We're competitive most years, win the division about half the time, occasionally go to the World Series and on average win it about once a decade.

But if some dream billionaire materialized out of the ether and started buying every big time free agent available? I guess I wouldn't mind it any more than you do, but it still wouldn't be right.

There should be a salary cap in baseball. If you're in a Corvette and I'm an Impala, the race isn't exactly fair.
So you should hate the system then ;) not the person that uses it to perfection.

He made the yes network into the humongous cash cow that it is. that was one of the most brilliant business decisions he ever made.

OnTheWarpath58
07-13-2010, 09:28 AM
There should be a salary cap in baseball. If you're in a Corvette and I'm an Impala, the race isn't exactly fair.

Yet the Yankees have only won two Championships in the last 10 years, IIRC.

So it must not be THAT unfair, or they'd be winning a hell of a lot more.

Bacon Cheeseburger
07-13-2010, 09:29 AM
It looks like a ping pong paddle. only bigger. I have a pic with my friend holding it. I wouldn't make anybody do that. it's just silly.
This thread is worthless without that picture.

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 09:29 AM
Well, that's kind of silly question, since the economic realities of a small market would pretty much preclude anybody in St. Louis or any other smaller city from sinking cash into an organization the was Steinbrenner did, regardless of how much they might want to. As small market teams go, the success the Cardinals have amassed (we are No. 2 in World Series wins, after all) is probably about the best we can hope for. We're competitive most years, win the division about half the team, occasionally go to the World Series and on average win it about once a decade.

But if some dream billionaire materialized out of the ether and started buying every big time free agent available? I guess I wouldn't mind it any more than you do, but it still wouldn't be right.

There should be a salary cap in baseball. If you're in a Corvette and I'm an Impala, the race isn't exactly fair.

Would you say that Steinbrenner reinvested more or less of his club's revenue into his club than DeWitt?

I'd say Steinbrenner has reinvested a substantially higher percentage in his club than DeWitt has, especially after you consider the revenue sharing dollars he has to spend.

And remember, DeWitt bought the Cardinals for less than he sold the parking garages that came with it for (so he essentially got the Cardinals for free). But hey, keep on waitin' for that ballpark village to materialize...

Don't look at the raw numbers, look at the % values. Steinbrenner put a huge % of his teams revenues back into his team. What's the problem with that?

He didn't make the rules, nor has he really gone overboard against them. Sure, he's gotten upset, but it was all sabre-rattling. He always paid his share of revenue sharing. He always paid the luxery tax. He did what MLB required him to do and continued to reinvest in his ballclub at a clip that far exceeds what most owners will do.

RJ
07-13-2010, 09:30 AM
I'll tell you this though. in the bleacher area I got a 16oz stella for $8. behind home plate a bottle of Bud was $12 :cuss: and 3 sliders with fries was also $12. if you go there make sure you are already drunk and full like I was ;)


Don't gripe about that. The beer prices at a freaking Isotopes Triple A game are just as bad. Minor league ticket prices but major league concession prices.

Last game I went to we got 4 tickets behind home plate about 10 rows back for $24.

Two beers, 4 hot dogs and 2 bottled waters cost me $35.

Bill Parcells
07-13-2010, 09:30 AM
This thread is worthless without that picture.

ROFL

OK, let me see if I can crop my friends face out of it ;)

DeezNutz
07-13-2010, 09:31 AM
NHL has the model: hard ceiling and floor.

But things are so far out of line in baseball that it would probably take a year-long strike, at least, to start to get movement. How do you set responsible parameters when some teams are north of $200M and some are spending $30M? The latter, by the way, is an absolute fucking farce and should be fined even more than those who are taxed for going above the curve.

Deberg_1990
07-13-2010, 09:31 AM
George was soo awesume. He invented the 162 game All Star Team!

ChiTown
07-13-2010, 09:32 AM
NHL has the model: hard ceiling and floor.

But things are so far out of line in baseball that it would probably take a year-long strike, at least, to start to get movement. How do you set responsible parameters when some teams are north of $200M and some are spending $30M? The latter, by the way, is an absolute ****ing farce and should be fined even more than those who are taxed for going above the curve.

QFT

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 09:33 AM
I don't disagree.... But he has opinions based on what he's read. You have only read or heard about his actions as an owner on tv. He has the right to his... and you yours.

I just found it funny that you, from Columbia..... were saying...."from Lawrence, Kansas?"

So you equate speaking to one's actions as an owner to making character judgments?

The latter doesn't require a slightly better source of information than the former?

C'mon - if someone's going to speak as you you as a human being, make personal judgments as to the life you've lead, wouldn't you at least ask that they know you? That they be able to speak from some degree of personal knowledge?

When the book closes on my life, I'll have no problem with folks looking at my trial record, etc... to determine and analyse what I've done professionally. But I'm damn sure not going to be okay with some guy that lives in LA reading snippets in the paper to pass moral judgment on me.

You wouldn't be either.

RJ
07-13-2010, 09:33 AM
ROFL

OK, let me see if I can crop my friends face out of it ;)


Is he wearing the sign?

It's SHTSTER, isn't it??????????? :D

Deberg_1990
07-13-2010, 09:34 AM
Yet the Yankees have only won two Championships in the last 10 years, IIRC.

So it must not be THAT unfair, or they'd be winning a hell of a lot more.

How long has it been since they didnt make the playoffs??

OnTheWarpath58
07-13-2010, 09:36 AM
How long has it been since they didnt make the playoffs??

Spoken like a true Chiefs fan.

What's the goal? Making the playoffs, or winning a Championship?

DeezNutz
07-13-2010, 09:36 AM
How long has it been since they didnt make the playoffs??

'85, when a terrible Yankee had Mr. K, Dick Howser, and George Brett killed.

Bill Parcells
07-13-2010, 09:36 AM
How long has it been since they didnt make the playoffs??

2008

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 09:36 AM
How long has it been since they didnt make the playoffs??

2 years.

burt
07-13-2010, 09:36 AM
So you equate speaking to one's actions as an owner to making character judgments?

The latter doesn't require a slightly better source of information than the former?

C'mon - if someone's going to speak as you you as a human being, make personal judgments as to the life you've lead, wouldn't you at least ask that they know you? That they be able to speak from some degree of personal knowledge?

When the book closes on my life, I'll have no problem with folks looking at my trial record, etc... to determine and analyse what I've done professionally. But I'm damn sure not going to be okay with some guy that lives in LA reading snippets in the paper to pass moral judgment on me.

You wouldn't be either.

I will be dead. I won't give a shit. And chances are real slim ANY ONE will read ANYTHING about me in the LA news!ROFL

RJ
07-13-2010, 09:38 AM
Seriously, I'm as big a Yankee hater as you'll find. I hate them just a little less than the Raiders and actually a little more than the Broncos. But I really don't understand hating Steinbrenner the man. All he did was try his best to win based on the rules he's been given. A lot of pro sports owners could do worse than to emulate Steinbrenner.

penchief
07-13-2010, 09:38 AM
Well, let's see, there are several books on the subject, news stories, articles, columns, etc. What do we base our opinions on any public person on? Do I need to live next door to Ken Lay to think he's an awful person?

Steinbrenner was demanding and hard on his employees. Especially the ones whom he paid a lot of money and expected a lot from. That being said, maybe you can enlighten us by giving a couple of examples that justify your unwillingness to acknowledge anything but those incidents.

I agree with you about the way Steinbrenner treated people at times. But I don't think that those incidents necessarily defined his life. Maybe you feel comfortable passing judgement on a life that was far more dynamic and eventful than yours or mine but I'm not sure I do.

DeezNutz
07-13-2010, 09:38 AM
Spoken like a true Chiefs fan.

What's the goal? Making the playoffs, or winning a Championship?

'06 Cards are a True Fan's dream.

.500 and championship. Stellar mediocrity, 111.

Bill Parcells
07-13-2010, 09:38 AM
Is he wearing the sign?

It's SHTSTER, isn't it??????????? :D

LOL! No, its not shtsprayer..hes a Mets fan..lol

OnTheWarpath58
07-13-2010, 09:41 AM
'06 Cards are a True Fan's dream.

.500 and championship. Stellar mediocrity, 111.

And without the $200M payroll - that around here apparently means "instant championship."

PunkinDrublic
07-13-2010, 09:43 AM
He's reuniting with Billy Martin in that great drunk driving accident in the sky.

ChiTown
07-13-2010, 09:44 AM
Seriously, I'm as big a Yankee hater as you'll find. I hate them just a little less than the Raiders and actually a little more than the Broncos. But I really don't understand hating Steinbrenner the man. All he did was try his best to win based on the rules he's been given. A lot of pro sports owners could do worse than to emulate Steinbrenner.

I can't separate the two. My apologies.

Bill Parcells
07-13-2010, 09:49 AM
here we go

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w29/jackass500/eric.jpg

ChiefMojo
07-13-2010, 09:49 AM
Sorry can't shed a tear.... well bye!

OnTheWarpath58
07-13-2010, 09:50 AM
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PunkinDrublic
07-13-2010, 09:54 AM
I'd like to recommend his heart doctor to Dick Cheney.

RJ
07-13-2010, 10:01 AM
I can't separate the two. My apologies.

No skin off my nose, I'm just offering my .02.

As an Orioles and used-to-be-Royals and Cards fan I can't help but grudgingly admire what the man has done over the years.

boogblaster
07-13-2010, 10:02 AM
RIP .. he had a rich and full life ....

RJ
07-13-2010, 10:03 AM
here we go

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w29/jackass500/eric.jpg


Meh. I don't think I'd have a problem with it, that's probably a pretty good part time gig. I was expecting worse.

Bacon Cheeseburger
07-13-2010, 10:08 AM
here we go

That's far from humiliating, but I think they could've gotten by with a button or something embroidered on the shirt.

And I thought you said the guy was a Mets fan, that looks a lot like the Yankme logo on his shirt.

wazu
07-13-2010, 10:11 AM
RIP .. he had a rich and full life ....

Yep. Few things in life are as fulfilling as systematically destroying major league baseball.

ChiefGator
07-13-2010, 10:13 AM
RIP... Steinbrenner did donate alot of money to Tampa charities and sports. And he completely bankrolled the Florida Folk and Bluegrass Festival after Jeb Bush tried to squash it the year following 9/11. Of course, Jeb denied it later.

Steinbrenner may have been a dick to some, but I will always remember his philanthropy here in Florida.

Bill Parcells
07-13-2010, 10:24 AM
That's far from humiliating, but I think they could've gotten by with a button or something embroidered on the shirt.

And I thought you said the guy was a Mets fan, that looks a lot like the Yankme logo on his shirt.

SHTSPRAYER is a Mets fan..lol..and thats not shtsprayer

Bill Parcells
07-13-2010, 10:25 AM
Meh. I don't think I'd have a problem with it, that's probably a pretty good part time gig. I was expecting worse.

If you look to the right of his beer you will see those cool standing room only seats they came out with before the playoffs last year. it's like a bar stool at a bar. and those seats are cheap.

Bill Parcells
07-13-2010, 10:26 AM
That's far from humiliating, but I think they could've gotten by with a button or something embroidered on the shirt.

And I thought you said the guy was a Mets fan, that looks a lot like the Yankme logo on his shirt.

Dude, they are just standing there holding those signs for hours..lmao..I wouldnt make anybody do that.

Dartgod
07-13-2010, 10:30 AM
The Yankees...did not handle the late 60s to early 70s very well. They were old, they were slow, they were undertalented. They were well behind most of baseball during that time.
So they were today's Royals?

Bacon Cheeseburger
07-13-2010, 10:45 AM
Dude, they are just standing there holding those signs for hours..lmao..I wouldnt make anybody do that.
Do they ever have any hotties holding them? I'm guessing they would get a lot of requests for 'help'.

Bill Parcells
07-13-2010, 10:48 AM
Do they ever have any hotties holding them? I'm guessing they would get a lot of requests for 'help'.

That was a hotty I got that sign from. the rule was that she can cough up the sign as long as she's an arm length away.

You should really get out of pigsknuckle Nebraska one of these days, n00b.

teedubya
07-13-2010, 11:04 AM
Next up, Al Davis.

But RIP George. I didn't like you much, but you had passion for the game... you wanted to win. I don't what it's like to have an owner want to win... so good on you.

RJ
07-13-2010, 11:14 AM
If you look to the right of his beer you will see those cool standing room only seats they came out with before the playoffs last year. it's like a bar stool at a bar. and those seats are cheap.


You mean it's cheaper to watch the game from a bar stool? Sign me up!

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-13-2010, 11:17 AM
The fact of the matter was that the guy was an intolerable scumbag for the vast majority of his life, and his cocksuckery only diminished once he was in his waning years.

The fuck was banned from baseball for one of the most dishonorable acts in modern sports by an owner, and it was when he was away that the team actually built up its farm system and laid the foundation for a dynasty.

He was basically the worst parts of Mark Cuban and Donald Trump. He wasn't a keen businessman nor owner.

He had the most money and spent a lot of it. But he couldn't build a consistent winner until his ass got banned and someone else did it for him. That, more than anything, should be the final arbiter on how effective of an owner he really was, and on a personal level, he was an intolerable cocksucker.

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RJ
07-13-2010, 11:22 AM
Yep. Few things in life are as fulfilling as systematically destroying major league baseball.


MLB doesn't look destroyed to me.

It's not the same game it was when I was a kid, but then neither is any other pro sports league.

Donger
07-13-2010, 11:32 AM
The fact of the matter was that the guy was an intolerable scumbag for the vast majority of his life, and his one who sucks the penisy only diminished once he was in his waning years.

The **** was banned from baseball for one of the most dishonorable acts in modern sports by an owner, and it was when he was away that the team actually built up its farm system and laid the foundation for a dynasty.

He was basically the worst parts of Mark Cuban and Donald Trump. He wasn't a keen businessman nor owner.

He had the most money and spent a lot of it. But he couldn't build a consistent winner until his ass got banned and someone else did it for him. That, more than anything, should be the final arbiter on how effective of an owner he really was, and on a personal level, he was an intolerable one who sucks the penis.

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Just so we're clear, pissing on the grave of a baseball owner who was mean is okay, but pissing on the grave of, say, a politician who was directly responsible for the death of a girl is not?

Bill Parcells
07-13-2010, 11:34 AM
Just so we're clear, pissing on the grave of a baseball owner who was mean is okay, but pissing on the grave of, say, a politician who was directly responsible for the death of a girl is not?

Hamas is a fan of a Midwestern baseball team. most of them view Mr Steinbrenner as the debil.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-13-2010, 11:40 AM
Just so we're clear, pissing on the grave of a baseball owner who was mean is okay, but pissing on the grave of, say, a politician who was directly responsible for the death of a girl is not?

Piss on both of their graves. Just don't bitch when someone pisses on Strom Thurmond or Ronald Reagan's, mmmkay?

wazu
07-13-2010, 11:41 AM
MLB doesn't look destroyed to me.

It's not the same game it was when I was a kid, but then neither is any other pro sports league.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/salaries/teams

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 11:44 AM
Hamas is a fan of a Midwestern baseball team. most of them view Mr Steinbrenner as the debil.

Hey, we still have a 3-2 World Series edge on them. Unfortunately, there will never be another true World Series between the squads since the 'Fall Classic' is really just an exhibition between two leagues that don't play with the same rules.

Steinbrenner's just the owner of the best team in a phony softball league, as far as most Cardinals fans are concerned.

So I will use Steinbrenner's death as yet another reason to say: "Fuck the Designated Hitter and the Divisional Format"

That is all.

|Zach|
07-13-2010, 11:46 AM
I didn't know he was that old.

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 11:50 AM
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/salaries/teams

Rays
Marlins
Rangers
Padres
Nationals
Blue Jays

All competitive and exciting. All have payrolls in the bottom 1/3 of the league.

I'm really tired of hearing the payroll argument.

Wake me when the Royals or Pirates can win their own division, with squads that have revenues similar to theirs and thus should have payrolls similar to theirs. Then I'll listen to folks complain that they can't beat the $200 million yankees.

Work on beating the $37 million Padres first.

kysirsoze
07-13-2010, 12:05 PM
Just exactly how much information related to George Steinbrenner has made its way to Lawrence lately?

Do you think most folks in NY are poised to speak authoritatively to the personal merits of Bill Self?

Being within, say, 1000 miles of the person you are personally attacking might be a good place to start.

What year are you posting this from? You know you're on the internet RIGHT NOW. It has all kinds of information on it. Short of knowing Steinbrenner personally, I don't think a New York resident has much of an advantage finding personal accounts of his life over someone from Lawrence. Your outlook may be "judge not" and that's cool, but discrediting him based on location is silly. The stories are out there.

kysirsoze
07-13-2010, 12:07 PM
Rays
Marlins
Rangers
Padres
Nationals
Blue Jays

All competitive and exciting. All have payrolls in the bottom 1/3 of the league.

I'm really tired of hearing the payroll argument.

Wake me when the Royals or Pirates can win their own division, with squads that have revenues similar to theirs and thus should have payrolls similar to theirs. Then I'll listen to folks complain that they can't beat the $200 million yankees.

Work on beating the $37 million Padres first.

The point isn't that spending more is an automatic win and that low payroll means you can't compete. The point is it's an unfair advantage. You think if those clubs had the resources of the Yankees they wouldn't be much, much better? Of course they would. Just because the Royals underachieve even based on their salary, and the Yankees often manage to fuck up what should be an automatic championship, doesn't mean the system ain't broken.

ClevelandBronco
07-13-2010, 12:08 PM
The passing of a man of George Steinbrenner's magnitude deserves a few thoughtful words... or some shit like that.

RJ
07-13-2010, 12:20 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/salaries/teams



http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/?tcid=nav_mlb_standings

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 12:22 PM
What year are you posting this from? You know you're on the internet RIGHT NOW. It has all kinds of information on it. Short of knowing Steinbrenner personally, I don't think a New York resident has much of an advantage finding personal accounts of his life over someone from Lawrence. Your outlook may be "judge not" and that's cool, but discrediting him based on location is silly. The stories are out there.

You think casual 'haters' such as Brock have been combing the internet looking for this information?

Out of sight, out of mind. George Steinbrenner is most certainly out of mind for Brock. I don't imagine he knows that Streinbrenner was actually working in soup kitchens in the Tampa Area as recently as 4 years ago. Or that he could be found actually driving trucks for the Salvation Army during Hurrican Andrew.

The guy did a bunch of very good things that you simply wouldn't have heard about from the midwest and you wouldn't have known about had you not looked for it. Your geographic proximity to an event is absolutely relevant when discussing a casual observers understanding of it. Just because one has access to the information, doesn't mean they bother finding it.

I'm pretty sure Brock wasn't hitting Google looking for positive Steinbrenner stories recently.

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 12:30 PM
The point isn't that spending more is an automatic win and that low payroll means you can't compete. The point is it's an unfair advantage. You think if those clubs had the resources of the Yankees they wouldn't be much, much better? Of course they would. Just because the Royals underachieve even based on their salary, and the Yankees often manage to **** up what should be an automatic championship, doesn't mean the system ain't broken.

So the fact that team that should win the championship based on it's payroll but doesn't is in no way evidence that the system isn't as screwed up as you claim?

Just exactly what would constitute evidence, then? How 'bout the fact that the Mets have constantly led the NL in payroll recently and haven't won a thing in over a 1/4 of a century? Or that the Cubs have spent $100 million more than the Padres with nothing to show for it?

The Lakers and Heat have advantages by playing in sunny locales with hot girls around. The Maple Leafs have an advantage by playing in the hometown of the world's foremost hockey hotbed. The Cowboys have the advantage of an owner that will spend 1 billion on a stadium.

There are advantages everywhere and in every form. Sure, the Yankees have an edge, but the obstacles aren't insurmountable.

The fact that the Royals can't even compete with teams that are similarly situated, meanwhile the D-Rays can run with the biggest of dogs, shows that success in MLB has a lot more to do with a well run organization than it does raw payroll figures.

Again - worry about beating your peers first. Then we'll see if there's truly a glass ceiling, or if your squad is just run by morons.

RJ
07-13-2010, 12:41 PM
So the fact that team that should win the championship based on it's payroll but doesn't is in no way evidence that the system isn't as screwed up as you claim?

Just exactly what would constitute evidence, then? How 'bout the fact that the Mets have constantly led the NL in payroll recently and haven't won a thing in over a 1/4 of a century? Or that the Cubs have spent $100 million more than the Padres with nothing to show for it?

The Lakers and Heat have advantages by playing in sunny locales with hot girls around. The Maple Leafs have an advantage by playing in the hometown of the world's foremost hockey hotbed. The Cowboys have the advantage of an owner that will spend 1 billion on a stadium.

There are advantages everywhere and in every form. Sure, the Yankees have an edge, but the obstacles aren't insurmountable.

The fact that the Royals can't even compete with teams that are similarly situated, meanwhile the D-Rays can run with the biggest of dogs, shows that success in MLB has a lot more to do with a well run organization than it does raw payroll figures.

Again - worry about beating your peers first. Then we'll see if there's truly a glass ceiling, or if your squad is just run by morons.


The Rays have (literally) more talent than they know what do do with in their organization.

OnTheWarpath58
07-13-2010, 12:46 PM
The Rays have (literally) more talent than they know what do do with in their organization.

The Royals would be in the same boat if they had competent decision makers in the organization.

They've been picking Top 5-10 for what, 25 years?

And have what to show for it?

DJ's right, the payroll excuse is tired. Plenty of teams are competitive with low payrolls. But they have competent decision makers and understand how to build a franchise.

Donger
07-13-2010, 12:49 PM
Piss on both of their graves. Just don't bitch when someone pisses on Strom Thurmond or Ronald Reagan's, mmmkay?

Okay. I just seem to recall you getting somewhat negative after Teddy bit it in DC and some folks weren't exactly being respectful of his demise.

Fruit Ninja
07-13-2010, 12:52 PM
I absolutely hate the yankee's, but i respect Georges passion for the team. He won at all costs.

RIP.

ChiTown
07-13-2010, 12:59 PM
Okay. I just seem to recall you getting somewhat negative after Teddy bit it in DC and some folks weren't exactly being respectful of his demise.

That's because Teddaquiddick was such a righteous man

kysirsoze
07-13-2010, 01:04 PM
So the fact that team that should win the championship based on it's payroll but doesn't is in no way evidence that the system isn't as screwed up as you claim?

Just exactly what would constitute evidence, then? How 'bout the fact that the Mets have constantly led the NL in payroll recently and haven't won a thing in over a 1/4 of a century? Or that the Cubs have spent $100 million more than the Padres with nothing to show for it?

The Lakers and Heat have advantages by playing in sunny locales with hot girls around. The Maple Leafs have an advantage by playing in the hometown of the world's foremost hockey hotbed. The Cowboys have the advantage of an owner that will spend 1 billion on a stadium.

There are advantages everywhere and in every form. Sure, the Yankees have an edge, but the obstacles aren't insurmountable.

The fact that the Royals can't even compete with teams that are similarly situated, meanwhile the D-Rays can run with the biggest of dogs, shows that success in MLB has a lot more to do with a well run organization than it does raw payroll figures.

Again - worry about beating your peers first. Then we'll see if there's truly a glass ceiling, or if your squad is just run by morons.

I understand your point, but since George and company started blowing up the salary scale, there are a few teams that are in the conversation every single year. Small market teams come and go but the big dogs are consistent. This is because of money. There are some teams that blow a ton of dough and still can't win. True. This is likely what would happen if somehow the Royals had those resources. They're just inept.

Still, I highly doubt the Yankees organization would be the dominant force it is without all that money.

The only argument you could make to the contrary is that all things being equal, money doesn't matter. That's insanity. Of course it does. There's not much the NBA can do about Miami's sunny beaches or LA's spotlight, but at least there's a salary cap in place to at least attempt parity.

OnTheWarpath58
07-13-2010, 01:09 PM
I understand your point, but since George and company started blowing up the salary scale, there are a few teams that are in the conversation every single year. Small market teams come and go but the big dogs are consistent. This is because of money. There are some teams that blow a ton of dough and still can't win. True. This is likely what would happen if somehow the Royals had those resources. They're just inept.

Still, I highly doubt the Yankees organization would be the dominant force it is without all that money.

The only argument you could make to the contrary is that all things being equal, money doesn't matter. That's insanity. Of course it does. There's not much the NBA can do about Miami's sunny beaches or LA's spotlight, but at least there's a salary cap in place to at least attempt parity.


7 different teams have won the last 9 World Series.

If that's not parity, what is?

This payroll excuse is getting old.

The Mets and Cubs are two excellent examples that continue to be ignored in this thread.

Neither have done dick with enormous payrolls, while small market teams have.

Spending money does not equal a championship.

SDChiefs
07-13-2010, 01:11 PM
It just occurred to me, the All Star Game just became unwatchable - it'll be nothing but a Yankmee/Scumbrenner lovefest.

Too bad the old **** couldn't have held out for another day. 4321

The All Star game was watchable?

DeezNutz
07-13-2010, 01:12 PM
Ewing Kauffman NEVER paid out big cash to front-tier FAs. NEVER.

If that dude lived another decade or so, I have a feeling that no KC fan would be bitching too much about Steinbrenner's handling of the Yankees.

Fruit Ninja
07-13-2010, 01:14 PM
7 different teams have won the last 9 World Series.

If that's not parity, what is?

here is the thing. the yankee's will always be there making a run towards it. Them 7 different teams are teams that have to be lucky enough to get the right young players all at the same time, what happens when they finally win? the next year, they have to break up that whole team and start completely over again.

Yankees? fuck no, they are still right back there because they can buy their talent.

The parity things while true by looking at the different winners, is not really true. Teams like the Yankee's, Angel's and Redsox dont have to rebuild every few years, they just keep adding because they got the money to spend.

Tampa Bay's team wont be good for long. Guy sare going to start flee'ing to big teams because they get paid.

Florida Marlins are a great example. All that young talent won them a ring, then the team broke up. they were lucky enough to do it again, but the team broke up again. Its going to take them a bit to get back.

DeezNutz
07-13-2010, 01:15 PM
Florida Marlins are a great example. All that young talent won them a ring, then the team broke up. they were lucky enough to do it again, but the team broke up again. Its going to take them a bit to get back.

I'd take that history.

RJ
07-13-2010, 01:17 PM
here is the thing. the yankee's will always be there making a run towards it. Them 7 different teams are teams that have to be lucky enough to get the right young players all at the same time, what happens when they finally win? the next year, they have to break up that whole team and start completely over again.

Yankees? **** no, they are still right back there because they can buy their talent.

The parity things while true by looking at the different winners, is not really true. Teams like the Yankee's, Angel's and Redsox dont have to rebuild every few years, they just keep adding because they got the money to spend.

Tampa Bay's team wont be good for long. Guy sare going to start flee'ing to big teams because they get paid.

Florida Marlins are a great example. All that young talent won them a ring, then the team broke up. they were lucky enough to do it again, but the team broke up again. Its going to take them a bit to get back.


They didn't break up, they got broke up.

Fruit Ninja
07-13-2010, 01:17 PM
I'd take that history.

i'd take it too, my team hasnt won since 1988, but it has to suck that no teams can really stay good for a 4-5 year stretch. They have to get lucky something like winning the lottery in order to do what the Marlins did. Yankee's? they will be in the race every year taking away someone's spot, because they dont have to rebuild. they just take someone else's guy who they seen flourish.

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 01:18 PM
I understand your point, but since George and company started blowing up the salary scale, there are a few teams that are in the conversation every single year. Small market teams come and go but the big dogs are consistent. This is because of money. There are some teams that blow a ton of dough and still can't win. True. This is likely what would happen if somehow the Royals had those resources. They're just inept.

Still, I highly doubt the Yankees organization would be the dominant force it is without all that money.

The only argument you could make to the contrary is that all things being equal, money doesn't matter. That's insanity. Of course it does. There's not much the NBA can do about Miami's sunny beaches or LA's spotlight, but at least there's a salary cap in place to at least attempt parity.

Of course money matters.

But like I said - true parity does not, and will not, ever exist.

Your position is that it creates an unfair advantage, and that's where I disagree. Does it create an advantage? Sure. But so great an advantage as to be considered "unfair"? No, I don't think so.

Now if you start getting rid of the draft picks for lost free agents, I'll start to get concerned, but right now the Yankees are giving up first rounders for every FA they sign (or 2nd, depending; and the team is getting a sandwich pick as well).

Additionally, for each one of these high priced superstars the Yankees are giving millions to, they're not developing a youngster. Finally, the Yankees have to overpay their guys to keep them there b/c of the climate they're in (pressure/cost of living/cost of success). With the noteriety that comes with playing in NY, suddenly a guy like Nick Swisher that was pretty irrelevant in Oakland, is going to be able to secure a $10 million payday.

It's not as easy at it would seem in NY.

Fruit Ninja
07-13-2010, 01:18 PM
here is the thing. the yankee's will always be there making a run towards it. Them 7 different teams are teams that have to be lucky enough to get the right young players all at the same time, what happens when they finally win? the next year, they have to break up that whole team and start completely over again.

Yankees? **** no, they are still right back there because they can buy their talent.

The parity things while true by looking at the different winners, is not really true. Teams like the Yankee's, Angel's and Redsox dont have to rebuild every few years, they just keep adding because they got the money to spend.

Tampa Bay's team wont be good for long. Guy sare going to start flee'ing to big teams because they get paid.

Florida Marlins are a great example. All that young talent won them a ring, then the team broke up. they were lucky enough to do it again, but the team broke up again. Its going to take them a bit to get back.


They didn't break up, they got broke up.

same fucking difference, they cant afford to pay so they had to go. FLorida could be an awesome winning region if the fucking fans down there cared enough about anything other then lying in the sun.

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 01:20 PM
Ewing Kauffman NEVER paid out big cash to front-tier FAs. NEVER.

If that dude lived another decade or so, I have a feeling that no KC fan would be bitching too much about Steinbrenner's handling of the Yankees.

Mark Davis is cited by many as the beginning of FA insanity.

Kauffman was derided by a lot of owners for his free-spending.

He's also revered in KC.

Hmmmmm........

DeezNutz
07-13-2010, 01:21 PM
Storm Davis is cited by many as the beginning of FA insanity.

Kauffman was derided by a lot of owners for his free-spending.

He's also revered in KC.

Hmmmmm........

Exactly. There's a case to be made that the Royals were the pre-Yankees. KC was also popularly referred to as the "model franchise."

SDChiefs
07-13-2010, 01:23 PM
Such as?

He hire a pack of ******s to rape Oksana.

OnTheWarpath58
07-13-2010, 01:26 PM
i'd take it too, my team hasnt won since 1988, but it has to suck that no teams can really stay good for a 4-5 year stretch. They have to get lucky something like winning the lottery in order to do what the Marlins did. Yankee's? they will be in the race every year taking away someone's spot, because they dont have to rebuild. they just take someone else's guy who they seen flourish.

Sorry, but that's bullshit.

The Cardinals have been to the playoffs 7 of the last 10 years, were in the WS twice, winning one, and have been to the NLCS 5 times in that timeframe.

All while having a payroll in the middle of the pack.

Donger
07-13-2010, 01:26 PM
That's because Teddaquiddick was such a righteous man

Well, that's kind of my point. Through his actions (and no-actions), Teddy led directly to the death of another human and got away with it. A few people, myself included, didn't exactly weep for him when he died, and Hamas seemed to take offense to that.

So, I'm naturally curious as to why Hamas is fine with being nasty toward Steinbrenner (apparently a rather unpleasant man) but got miffed when others were nasty toward Kennedy (a man who basically killed someone and got away with it).

Otter
07-13-2010, 01:34 PM
Pretty good article summing up working for GS.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/14/sports/baseball/14anderson.html

When strangers met George Steinbrenner socially, maybe at a charity dinner or by chance at a restaurant, they would rave about what a nice guy he was, how pleasant and friendly he was, how he certainly was not the ogre they read about as the Yankees’ principal owner. And in a social setting with strangers, he was a nice guy, pleasant and friendly.
Pat Sullivan/Associated Press

But if you worked for Steinbrenner in the three decades before his health deteriorated several years ago, as any Yankees employee of that era would confirm, you were an almost daily victim of his impatient bluster and bombast. He fired managers and public-relations directors and anybody who didn’t get his lunch order correct.

If you were a New York sports columnist, as I was even before his arrival at Yankee Stadium in 1973, he was a subject you couldn’t ignore. He was always saying or doing something that made headlines, especially when the Yankees did not win the World Series. And when they did not win the World Series from 1979 to 1995, he was seldom on his best behavior.

In a Thanksgiving Day column I wrote during that era, I lumped him with pro football’s Al Davis and the boxing promoter Don King as “scoundrels” not to be thankful for. About a week later, when I asked where he had suddenly gone after a Yankees news conference, I was told: “George said he wasn’t talking to you anyway. He said you ruined his mother’s Thanksgiving.”

Imagine how his rash decisions affected so many other mothers, much less the Yankees managers, players and office employees themselves.

When the 1980 Yankees, who had won 103 games under Manager Dick Howser, were swept in three games by the Kansas City Royals in the American League Champion Series, Steinbrenner invited 14 reporters and columnists to a rare news conference in his Stadium office. Near the door were two trays of bite-size roast beef, turkey and ham sandwiches.

“Anybody want any sandwiches?” he asked, but none of the reporters or columnists did. “Nobody wants a sandwich? Nobody wants a drink?”

By then, Howser was sitting stiffly to the side, his left index finger against his left cheek as if to keep from having to look at the principal owner.

“Dick has decided,” George began, “that he will not be returning to the Yankees next year. I should say, not returning to the Yankees as manager.”

Dick has decided. Ostensibly, Howser had decided to go into the real estate business in Tallahassee, Fla., rather than continue as the Yankees manager. When George was asked if Howser could have returned as manager, he said yes. But when Howser was asked why he didn’t want to continue as manager, he said, “I have to be cautious here.” When he was asked if he had been fired, he said, “I’m not going to comment on that.”

“I didn’t fire the man,” Steinbrenner barked.

The principal owner even added, “I think it’s safe to say that Dick Howser wants to be a Florida resident year round, right, Dick?”

Dick Howser didn’t even answer that one.

This was an execution, not a news conference, and when it was over, as everybody was walking out of his office, the principal owner looked around and said, “Nobody ate any sandwiches.” He didn’t seem to realize that nobody believed that “Dick had decided.”

About a decade later, baseball Commissioner Fay Vincent suspended Steinbrenner for his involvement with a gambler in a dispute involving outfielder Dave Winfield.

“In essence,” Vincent wrote in his disciplinary statement of the principal owner, “he heard no internal warnings because none went off.”

Steinbrenner never seemed to hear any internal warnings. Of all of his Yankees employees, Yogi Berra understood that best. Before the 1985 season, the principal owner promised that Berra would complete the season as the manager. But after a 6-10 start, Steinbrenner sent word for a front-office executive to tell Berra, a Yankees icon, that he was out. Because the principal owner didn’t have the class to tell him man to man, Berra vowed not to go to Yankee Stadium ever again.

Some 15 years later, Steinbrenner apologized. Berra accepted it and returned to the Stadium as the greatest living Yankee.

Over the last decade, Steinbrenner’s illness helped change his image. His bluster and bombast were gone. He spoke mostly through Howard Rubenstein, his personal public-relations man. And during that decade, no bluster or bombast was necessary. The Yankees didn’t always win the World Series, but they were always in the playoffs. Always in the news. And always in the money, millions of it.

Say this for George Steinbrenner, he was always willing to invest millions to make the Yankees the best team.

He just didn’t always understand that he had his faults. Several years ago, Joe Vecchione, then The Times’s sports editor, was chatting with the principal owner in spring training one year when several fans stopped to get his autograph. Pleasant and friendly, Steinbrenner turned and said: “Joe, look at this. Everybody loves me except Dave Anderson.”

I loved George Steinbrenner, too, but as somebody to write about, certainly not somebody to work for.

RJ
07-13-2010, 01:35 PM
[QUOTE=RJ;6877066]

same ****ing difference, they cant afford to pay so they had to go. FLorida could be an awesome winning region if the ****ing fans down there cared enough about anything other then lying in the sun.


Having a fire sale for your best players is a really bad marketing idea.

Plenty of teams sell off higher priced players but the Marlins took it to another level. I think all the fans they have left are old guys who moved there from New York.

Otter
07-13-2010, 01:39 PM
Well, that's kind of my point. Through his actions (and no-actions), Teddy led directly to the death of another human and got away with it. A few people, myself included, didn't exactly weep for him when he died, and Hamas seemed to take offense to that.

So, I'm naturally curious as to why Hamas is fine with being nasty toward Steinbrenner (apparently a rather unpleasant man) but got miffed when others were nasty toward Kennedy (a man who basically killed someone and got away with it).

Hypocrite?

Param
07-13-2010, 01:41 PM
[quote=RJ;6877066]

same fucking difference, they cant afford to pay so they had to go. FLorida could be an awesome winning region if the fucking fans down there cared enough about anything other then lying in the sun.

And you just answered your own question. And to add, the Marlins should dump players again because the current squad isn't going to win shit.

RJ
07-13-2010, 01:59 PM
[quote=kcxiv;6877069]

And you just answered your own question. And to add, the Marlins should dump players again because the current squad isn't going to win shit.


My point is that the Marlins are a self-fulfilling prophecy. Assuming the fans won't come, they sell off all their best players, thus assuring the fans won't come.

penchief
07-13-2010, 02:15 PM
Pretty good article summing up working for GS.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/14/sports/baseball/14anderson.html

Nobody's denying that he wasn't very often a prick to work for. I didn't like his head games, either. But that still didn't stop people from taking his money. It was a free market, baby. Everyone knew who he was but they still chose to work for him.

It seems equally unseemly for someone to agree to take the guys money but then badmouth him when they already knew what they were getting into. I mean come on. He was called "The Boss" for a reason.

I'm not defending his unacceptable behavior. Only trying to be fair about it. There was more to the man than his working relationship with his employees. And that wasn't always bad. Sure, he forged a well-deserved reputation. But how much does that overshadow the good things?

Donger
07-13-2010, 02:18 PM
Nobody's denying that he wasn't very often a prick to work for. But that still didn't stop people from taking his money. It was a free market, baby. Everyone knew who he was but they still chose to work for him.

It seems equally unseemly for someone to agree to take the guys money but then badmouth him when they already knew what they were getting into. I mean come on. He was called "The Boss" for a reason.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. He wasn't exactly forcing anyone to work for him, was he? Or pretending to be something he wasn't?

penchief
07-13-2010, 02:20 PM
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. He wasn't exactly forcing anyone to work for him, was he? Or pretending to be something he wasn't?

Nope.

Otter
07-13-2010, 02:21 PM
Nobody's denying that he wasn't very often a prick to work for. But that still didn't stop people from taking his money. It was a free market, baby. Everyone knew who he was but they still chose to work for him.

It seems equally unseemly for someone to agree to take the guys money but then badmouth him when they already knew what they were getting into. I mean come on. He was called "The Boss" for a reason.

The posting of the article wasn't a comment on anything except the man himself. I haven't been keeping up with the debate since I posted early this morning. Some of us work ya know. ;D

As mentioned much earlier, I admire Steinbrenner. I'm not sure how much I would have liked him but I certainly admire his accomplishments. NYC is a tough place to stay on top for a year or two let alone 40. It takes brass balls, intelligence and at least a touch of charisma.

penchief
07-13-2010, 02:24 PM
The posting of the article wasn't a comment on anything except the man himself. I haven't been keeping up with the debate since I posted early this morning. Some of us work ya know. ;D

As mentioned much earlier, I admire Steinbrenner. I'm not sure how much I would have liked him but I certainly admire his accomplishments. NYC is a tough place to stay on top for a year or two let alone 40. It takes brass balls, intelligence and at least a touch of charisma.

Yeah, I know you weren't bashing him. It just seems like a lot of people are overlooking the fact that many of those who worked for him chose to do so. And knew who he was before they signed a contract. If they chose money over their dignity or their pride it's kind of hard to lay that at George's feet.

Plus, people are making it sound like he was universally hated by his employees. Which is simply not true.

RJ
07-13-2010, 02:30 PM
Plus, people are making it sound like he was universally hated by his employees. Which is simply not true.


George Costanza seemed to like him.

Brock
07-13-2010, 02:32 PM
Yeah, I know you weren't bashing him. It just seems like a lot of people are overlooking the fact that many of those who worked for him chose to do so. And knew who he was before they signed a contract. If they chose money over their dignity or their pride it's kind of hard to lay that at George's feet.

Plus, people are making it sound like he was universally hated by his employees. Which is simply not true.

Funny how some corporate masters get a pass from you.

penchief
07-13-2010, 02:34 PM
George Costanza seemed to like him.

Yeah, Seinfeld's portrayal of Steinbrenner is funny as hell.

RJ
07-13-2010, 02:35 PM
Yeah, Seinfeld's portrayal of Steinbrenner is funny as hell.


I can't think of Steinbrenner without the Seinfeld version coming to mind.

BillSelfsTrophycase
07-13-2010, 02:36 PM
Ewing Kauffman NEVER paid out big cash to front-tier FAs. NEVER.

If that dude lived another decade or so, I have a feeling that no KC fan would be bitching too much about Steinbrenner's handling of the Yankees.


That's not fair

Mark Davis?
Storm Davis?
Chico Lind?
Wally Joyner?









Aw fuck it, I got nuthin

penchief
07-13-2010, 02:40 PM
Funny how some corporate masters get a pass from you.

What are you talking about? There are a lot of things that Steinbrenner did in politics and in the business world that I totally disagreed with. But that is not what this is about. We're discussing George Steinbrenner, the man. I'm just trying to offer a little bit of balance. One aspect of a flawed character is not enough to pass judgement on the entirety of his life.

So get out of here with that stupid shit.

Brock
07-13-2010, 02:46 PM
What are you talking about? There are a lot of things that Steinbrenner did in politics and in the business world that I totally disagreed with. But that is not what this is about. We're discussing George Steinbrenner, the man. I'm just trying to offer a little bit of balance. One aspect of a flawed character is not enough to pass judgement on the entirety of his life.

So get out of here with that stupid shit.

But no, it is funny to see you in particular dropping to your knees to lick his taint, when if he was the CEO of Ford or something you'd be talking about what a corporate demon he is and how this is what's wrong with America, etc. You are a horrible fucking hypocrite, but I've pointed that out many times before.

Mr. Laz
07-13-2010, 03:00 PM
Ice Cream ....




i couldn't think of anything else nice to say :shrug:

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-13-2010, 03:23 PM
Well, that's kind of my point. Through his actions (and no-actions), Teddy led directly to the death of another human and got away with it. A few people, myself included, didn't exactly weep for him when he died, and Hamas seemed to take offense to that.

So, I'm naturally curious as to why Hamas is fine with being nasty toward Steinbrenner (apparently a rather unpleasant man) but got miffed when others were nasty toward Kennedy (a man who basically killed someone and got away with it).

Too bad I never said anything about it, other than mentioning him in the Cheney thread that patteeu started in the Lounge just so that it would get the fuck out of the Lounge and go to DC where it belonged.

I never complained about people piling on him after his died, I only pointed out the butthurt cons who felt it wasn't fair of people to pile on Cheney when he had a heart attack because he was in bad physical shape.

Nothing like a baseless accusation, eh? Especially since it immediately got the endorsement of a retard like Otter (which is in and of itself a microcosm of awesomeness).

FWIW, here's a list of all my posts with the word "Kennedy" in them, or in threads with "Kennedy" in the title:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/search.php?searchid=409830

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/search.php?searchid=409834

Oh, and in billay's "Senator Kennedy has died" thread, I had no posts.

Donger
07-13-2010, 03:29 PM
Too bad I never said anything about it, other than mentioning him in the Cheney thread that patteeu started in the Lounge just so that it would get the **** out of the Lounge and go to DC where it belonged.

I never complained about people piling on him after his died, I only pointed out the butthurt cons who felt it wasn't fair of people to pile on Cheney when he had a heart attack because he was in bad physical shape.

Nothing like a baseless accusation, eh? Especially since it immediately got the endorsement of a retard like Otter (which is in and of itself a microcosm of awesomeness).

FWIW, here's a list of all my posts with the word "Kennedy" in them, or in threads with "Kennedy" in the title:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/search.php?searchid=409830

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/search.php?searchid=409834

Oh, and in billay's "Senator Kennedy has died" thread, I had no posts.

"And people have the nerve to think of this subforum as a rancid shithole."

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=6461821

Post 23.

Mecca
07-13-2010, 03:32 PM
Look now, pretty much every bad team can be associated with one of a couple of things. Poor management or teams more concerned with making a profit than putting out a winning team, the Marlins 30 million dollar payroll is shameful seeing as they get more revenue sharing money than that by a huge degree.

Also maybe baseball will eventually learn a lesson about putting teams in markets that frankly don't care.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-13-2010, 03:37 PM
"And people have the nerve to think of this subforum as a rancid shithole."

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=6461821

Post 23.

I stand by that statement, especially when contextualized against the events of the thread (which was about an election, not his death or his life).

Brock
07-13-2010, 03:40 PM
Look now, pretty much every bad team can be associated with one of a couple of things. Poor management or teams more concerned with making a profit than putting out a winning team, the Marlins 30 million dollar payroll is shameful seeing as they get more revenue sharing money than that by a huge degree.

Also maybe baseball will eventually learn a lesson about putting teams in markets that frankly don't care.

I doubt MLB has learned anything. Hell, a couple of years ago they wanted to contract at least two franchises with great history in favor of expansion teams.

Donger
07-13-2010, 03:41 PM
I stand by that statement, especially when contextualized against the events of the thread (which was about an election, not his death or his life).

Actually, the election only happened because he died. But you knew that.

So, what makes that thread an example of a "rancid shithole" versus what you posted here?

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-13-2010, 03:49 PM
Actually, the election only happened because he died. But you knew that.

So, what makes that thread an example of a "rancid shithole" versus what you posted here?

The fact that you are so obsessed that you were celebrating his death 6 months post facto?

There's a difference between people foolishly lionizing the dead and telling it as it was. Additionally, it shows a pathetic obsession to celebrate their death half a year after it went down.

You want to piss all over Teddy when he died or during his memorial service when people were calling him "The Lion of the Senate", that's cool with me, because he didn't deserve that title, and he wasn't an honorable man.

Mentioning ad nauseum six months later just makes you come off like a jilted, pathetic bitch, but you know that.

WilliamTheIrish
07-13-2010, 03:53 PM
My fave image of him....

i think it was the 1980 playoff series after Brett hit the HR off of Gossage....they showed him walking out in disgust. ROFL

Your memory is very good but off by a game. The image of George S. storming out of the stadium was game 2 in 1980 in KC after Nettles grounded into an inning ending DP off Quiz.

In the 7th inning of the game 3 clincher, the TV showed the ball landing in the 3rd deck and George gently trotting around the bases in the deep silence of Yankee Stadium before being greeted by Wilson and UL Washington at the plate.

Fred White on the radio broadcast: :THERE'S A LONG DRIVE, DEEP RIGHT FIELD!!!!... HOME RUN!!! HOME RUN FOR BRETT

I remember it like it was yesterday.

Donger
07-13-2010, 04:03 PM
The fact that you are so obsessed that you were celebrating his death 6 months post facto?

There's a difference between people foolishly lionizing the dead and telling it as it was. Additionally, it shows a pathetic obsession to celebrate their death half a year after it went down.

You want to piss all over Teddy when he died or during his memorial service when people were calling him "The Lion of the Senate", that's cool with me, because he didn't deserve that title, and he wasn't an honorable man.

Mentioning ad nauseum six months later just makes you come off like a jilted, pathetic bitch, but you know that.

I take it that you've re-read that thread? The only reason that I brought it up in the first place was because the seat in question was being referred to as "Teddy's seat." Sans that, I probably wouldn't have created that thread. It was, however, deliciously ironic.

gblowfish
07-13-2010, 04:08 PM
Gotta love "The Onion":
http://tinyurl.com/38lk4td

Param
07-13-2010, 04:09 PM
Look now, pretty much every bad team can be associated with one of a couple of things. Poor management or teams more concerned with making a profit than putting out a winning team, the Marlins 30 million dollar payroll is shameful seeing as they get more revenue sharing money than that by a huge degree.

Also maybe baseball will eventually learn a lesson about putting teams in markets that frankly don't care.

Marlins payroll is $55 million & a new baseball stadium is opening in 18 months.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-13-2010, 04:12 PM
I take it that you've re-read that thread? The only reason that I brought it up in the first place was because the seat in question was being referred to as "Teddy's seat." Sans that, I probably wouldn't have created that thread. It was, however, deliciously ironic.

FWIW, you mentioned Chappaquiddick when he was rushed to the hospital in May of 08, when he died in August of '09, and when Brown won the Senate election in '10.

I'd say you had no problem bringing it up...ever.

Donger
07-13-2010, 04:17 PM
FWIW, you mentioned Chappaquiddick when he was rushed to the hospital in May of 08, when he died in August of '09, and when Brown won the Senate election in '10.

I'd say you had no problem bringing it up...ever.

Absolutely. He was directly responsible for her death. Call me crazy for bringing that up whenever his name is mentioned.

And, of course, my entire reason for this discussion.

WilliamTheIrish
07-13-2010, 04:22 PM
Ewing Kauffman NEVER paid out big cash to front-tier FAs. NEVER.

If that dude lived another decade or so, I have a feeling that no KC fan would be bitching too much about Steinbrenner's handling of the Yankees.

You're correct. If EK made any mistake it was allowing the very conservative Joe Burke to ignore the fledgling FA market that saw the Yankees get Reggie Jackson and Goose Gossage while Burke maneuvered to land the incredible Jerry Terrell.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-13-2010, 04:22 PM
Absolutely. He was directly responsible for her death. Call me crazy for bringing that up whenever his name is mentioned.

And, of course, my entire reason for this discussion.

Perhaps you should try to overcome that Pavlovian conditioning.

Donger
07-13-2010, 04:27 PM
Perhaps you should try to overcome that Pavlovian conditioning.

Yeah, she was just "the girl" after all.

So, again just to be clear, I take it that you will be upset if someone pisses over Steinbrenner's grave six months from now, right?

Bill Parcells
07-13-2010, 04:27 PM
My fave image of him....

i think it was the 1980 playoff series after Brett hit the HR off of Gossage....they showed him walking out in disgust. ROFL

No, that was in KC. I think Willie Randolph got thrown out at a play at the plate if my memory is correct.

Once Thurman Munson died, that late 70's team was never the same. he was the heart and soul of the team. and one of the greatest clutch players of all time.


Now, Whitey Herhog was one of the dumbest managers in the history of baseball. in 1978 game 3 at Yankee stadium. Splittorf was pitching a gem. the Royals had a 2-1 lead in the bottom of the eight inning. Roy White gets on first, Herhog brings in Doug Byrd to pitch to Munson ROFL Munson had like an 800 BA against Byrd. Munson hit a tremendous home run into the left center bullpen that one hopped off the bleacher wall. a moon shot back in the day. Yanks won that game and the series. I still laugh at Herhog every time I think about that.

WilliamTheIrish
07-13-2010, 04:34 PM
Mark Davis is cited by many as the beginning of FA insanity.

Kauffman was derided by a lot of owners for his free-spending.

He's also revered in KC.

Hmmmmm........

I'd love to read some of those opinions.

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 04:37 PM
I'd love to read some of those opinions.

Davis was a closer w/ 2 strong seasons under his belt that signed a contract awarding him the highest annual annual salary in baseball history.

Re-read that. A closer. With 81 career saves. Getting the highest annual salary in baseball history (on a relatively long-term deal for the time, 4 years)

Can you imagine Jonathan Broxton getting $30 million/yr for 6 years this offseason?

Do I really need to give you sources for this?

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-13-2010, 04:47 PM
Yeah, she was just "the girl" after all.

So, again just to be clear, I take it that you will be upset if someone pisses over Steinbrenner's grave six months from now, right?

I'll see it as stupid, pointless, and obsessive.

WilliamTheIrish
07-13-2010, 04:52 PM
Davis was a closer w/ 2 strong seasons under his belt that signed a contract awarding him the highest annual annual salary in baseball history.

Can you imagine Jonathan Broxton getting $30 million/yr this offseason?

Do I really need to give you sources for this?

I don't need sources for the stats of Mark Davis or his signing. He was Cy Young and Rolaids Relief Man Of The Year. And the team in hindsight overpaid. They took a chance and it didn't work. He was the Royals version of Ed Whitson.

And yes, I'd like you to back that up with what you stated.

Kauffman was derided by a lot of owners for his free-spending.

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 04:56 PM
I don't need sources for the stats of Mark Davis or his signing. He was Cy Young and Rolaids Relief Man Of The Year. And the team in hindsight overpaid. They took a chance and it didn't work. He was the Royals version of Ed Whitson.

And yes, I'd like you to back that up with what you stated.

You're right. I made it all up.

I'll eagerly anticipate Jonathan Broxton's $180 million contract.

DeezNutz
07-13-2010, 04:59 PM
I don't need sources for the stats of Mark Davis or his signing. He was Cy Young and Rolaids Relief Man Of The Year. And the team in hindsight overpaid. They took a chance and it didn't work. He was the Royals version of Ed Whitson.

And yes, I'd like you to back that up with what you stated.

I was alluding to the organization's last push to win one before Mr. K died, and the dude was always a (relatively speaking, as things weren't totally crazy yet) willing spender.

Again, overall salaries were so much lower that the comparisons between the eras must be loose at best.

WilliamTheIrish
07-13-2010, 05:01 PM
You're right. I made it all up.

I'll eagerly anticipate Jonathan Broxton's $180 million contract.

Me too. And then we can see if any owners deride it.

RJ
07-13-2010, 05:02 PM
Who would have thought a thread on George Steinbrenner's death could lead to arguments about Ted Kennedy and Mark Davis?

Color me impressed.

tk13
07-13-2010, 05:05 PM
Haha, RJ just stole my comment. We've devolved into a Kennedy and a bunch of Cards fans trying to rip on the Royals. Woo. How about that oil spill?

Bill Parcells
07-13-2010, 05:05 PM
Who would have thought a thread on George Steinbrenner's death could lead to arguments about Ted Kennedy and Mark Davis?

Color me impressed.

Do you want to talk about Gino's burgers too? :D

Saulbadguy
07-13-2010, 05:05 PM
Fuck him. Glad he's dead.

RJ
07-13-2010, 05:06 PM
Do you want to talk about Gino's burgers too? :D

Well, as long as you brought it up.....

tk13
07-13-2010, 05:07 PM
But I don't know if you can compare 1989 to today. The payrolls are just so far out of whack. When Mr. K was a big spender payrolls were what, $10-15 million total? It's an entirely different world today.

penchief
07-13-2010, 05:08 PM
But no, it is funny to see you in particular dropping to your knees to lick his taint, when if he was the CEO of Ford or something you'd be talking about what a corporate demon he is and how this is what's wrong with America, etc. You are a horrible ****ing hypocrite, but I've pointed that out many times before.

I think you are not reading my posts. I have repeatedly said that I did not approve of his antics or the way that he sometimes treated people. My only intention is to offer some balance because I think it is unfair to define someone's life by painting only part of the picture. Those of you passing judgement on his soul are not interested in knowing the full story, only that part which feeds your resentment. Steinbrenner wasn't universally hated by his employees. He was sometimes hated, sometimes tolerated, and sometimes loved.

Steinbrenner kept a low profile regarding the ton of charitable work he always did. And while he was unbearable at times, his heart was very often in the right place.

Brock
07-13-2010, 05:10 PM
Oh, you're all of a sudden concerned with balance? That's hysterical.

Bill Parcells
07-13-2010, 05:10 PM
But I don't know if you can compare 1989 to today. The payrolls are just so far out of whack. When Mr. K was a big spender payrolls were what, $10-15 million total? It's an entirely different world today.

I think Mattingly became the first player to make 2million a year. and that was in the mid to late 80's. no comparison to payrolls now.

penchief
07-13-2010, 05:14 PM
Oh, you're all of a sudden concerned with balance? That's hysterical.

Funny how you keep avoiding the gist of my words in favor of casting aspersions. As coping mechanisms go it may seem clever to you but it's transparent and not very effective.

WilliamTheIrish
07-13-2010, 05:15 PM
But I don't know if you can compare 1989 to today. The payrolls are just so far out of whack. When Mr. K was a big spender payrolls were what, $10-15 million total? It's an entirely different world today.

Of course it is.

But in 1989 the Yankees were offering Davis 5 years for 15 million and the Padres stopped at 4 years for 12 mil and signed Craig Lefferts instead. The Royals were (for once) in the game.

OnTheWarpath58
07-13-2010, 05:15 PM
Haha, RJ just stole my comment. We've devolved into a Kennedy and a bunch of Cards fans trying to rip on the Royals. Woo. How about that oil spill?

If by, "a bunch of Cards fans trying to rip on the Royals," you actually mean, "baseball fans, that regardless of their team affiliation, think it's fucking laughable that Royals fans continue to think that they don't have a chance against the big, bad Yankees and Red Sox because they don't have as much money to spend," then you're absolutely right.

Otherwise, it just sounds like more butthurt.

I think most rational Royals fans would admit that David Glass could have $200M a year to spend on payroll, and actually spend it, and the team would still suck.

Competent decision making has much, much more to do with an organization's success than the amount of money they spend on players.

Otherwise, teams like the Dodgers, Cubs and Mets would have more than the ZERO combined World Series wins they have over the past 20 years.

WilliamTheIrish
07-13-2010, 05:17 PM
If by, "a bunch of Cards fans trying to rip on the Royals," you actually mean, "baseball fans, that regardless of their team affiliation, think it's ****ing laughable that Royals fans continue to think that they don't have a chance against the big, bad Yankees and Red Sox because they don't have as much money to spend," then you're absolutely right.

Otherwise, it just sounds like more butthurt.

I think most rational Royals fans would admit that David Glass could have $200M a year to spend on payroll, and actually spend it, and the team would still suck.

Competent decision making has much, much more to do with an organization's success than the amount of money they spend on players.

Otherwise, teams like the Dodgers, Cubs and Mets would have more than the ZERO combined World Series wins they have over the past 20 years.

What Royals fan in this thread said they don't have a chance because they don't have money spend?

sandynme
07-13-2010, 05:17 PM
Breaking news on ESPN right now.

They say he has suffered a heart attack.

P.S. he is 80 years old.

fuckem and the whore who bore him

tk13
07-13-2010, 05:25 PM
If by, "a bunch of Cards fans trying to rip on the Royals," you actually mean, "baseball fans, that regardless of their team affiliation, think it's ****ing laughable that Royals fans continue to think that they don't have a chance against the big, bad Yankees and Red Sox because they don't have as much money to spend," then you're absolutely right.

Otherwise, it just sounds like more butthurt.

I think most rational Royals fans would admit that David Glass could have $200M a year to spend on payroll, and actually spend it, and the team would still suck.

Competent decision making has much, much more to do with an organization's success than the amount of money they spend on players.

Otherwise, teams like the Dodgers, Cubs and Mets would have more than the ZERO combined World Series wins they have over the past 20 years.

What on earth are you talking about? I've said for the last 5 years that money is not the Royals problem. As long as we stay in that middle pack of teams we'll fine, and we've done that, while spending more than just about anyone else in the draft. We've actually had a decent amount of spending for our size, and Glass has shown he'll go for it if we're in contention. That is all you can ask for.

Maybe you guys should pull your head out of your lower spleen before running around throwing insults. There is a serious economic disparity in baseball and it does make for an uneven playing field. But it does so for just about everyone under $100 million, including the Royals, Cardinals, and 90% of the league.

OnTheWarpath58
07-13-2010, 05:29 PM
If by, "a bunch of Cards fans trying to rip on the Royals," you actually mean, "baseball fans, that regardless of their team affiliation, think it's fucking laughable that Royals fans continue to think that they don't have a chance against the big, bad Yankees and Red Sox because they don't have as much money to spend," then you're absolutely right.

Otherwise, it just sounds like more butthurt.

I think most rational Royals fans would admit that David Glass could have $200M a year to spend on payroll, and actually spend it, and the team would still suck.

Competent decision making has much, much more to do with an organization's success than the amount of money they spend on players.

Otherwise, teams like the Dodgers, Cubs and Mets would have more than the ZERO combined World Series wins they have over the past 20 years.

What Royals fan in this thread said they don't have a chance because they don't have money spend?

I apologize, WTI. Poor choice of words.

Should probably read, "continue to think that it's unfair that the big, bad Yankees and Red Sox are successful because they have more money to spend,"

Because as pointed out, money does not equate winning a championship - or even being successful in the regular season, for that matter.

Having competent decision makers in your organization, however, definitely helps the cause, regardless of whether you spend $40M a year on payroll, or $200M.

DeezNutz
07-13-2010, 05:34 PM
What on earth are you talking about? I've said for the last 5 years that money is not the Royals problem. As long as we stay in that middle pack of teams we'll fine, and we've done that, while spending more than just about anyone else in the draft. We've actually had a decent amount of spending for our size, and Glass has shown he'll go for it if we're in contention. That is all you can ask for.

Maybe you guys should pull your head out of your lower spleen before running around throwing insults. There is a serious economic disparity in baseball and it does make for an uneven playing field. But it does so for just about everyone under $100 million, including the Royals, Cardinals, and 90% of the league.

That's not true, but I agree with much of the rest.

OnTheWarpath58
07-13-2010, 05:38 PM
What on earth are you talking about? I've said for the last 5 years that money is not the Royals problem. As long as we stay in that middle pack of teams we'll fine, and we've done that, while spending more than just about anyone else in the draft. We've actually had a decent amount of spending for our size, and Glass has shown he'll go for it if we're in contention. That is all you can ask for.

Maybe you guys should pull your head out of your lower spleen before running around throwing insults. There is a serious economic disparity in baseball and it does make for an uneven playing field. But it does so for just about everyone under $100 million, including the Royals, Cardinals, and 90% of the league.

FWIW, I never claimed that YOU said that money is the Royals problem. Just pointing out the obvious resentment in this thread.

And again, just because teams spend that much cash means nothing. Teams like the Yankees and Red Sox are successful because they have competent decision makers, while teams like the Dodgers, Mets and Cubs, while spending more than everyone but those two, haven't won dick. Teams like the Rays, Twins and currently the Padres have done well while spending as much or less than the Royals.

Mid and small market teams win championships just as often as the "big boys" do.

I've never heard a Cardinals fan complain that the Cubs spend so much money that it's unfair. Or the Mets and Dodgers, for that matter. Probably because we've historically done much more with much, much less.

My guess is that if the Royals had competent decision makers and competed once in a blue fucking moon, people wouldn't be complaining about the money the Yankees and Red Sox have to spend.

Sure-Oz
07-13-2010, 05:39 PM
Jimmy Breslin causing crap on sportscenter lol about george

Donger
07-13-2010, 05:40 PM
I'll see it as stupid, pointless, and obsessive.

I must admit, I don't understand the time frame issue. Is it just as stupid to call Hitler a dickhead when he died 65 years ago? Or Carl Peterson a turd three years after he left?

I suppose I could see your point if it were a completely random "Teddy Kennedy is a cowardly scumbag!" thread, but it wasn't. As I've already tried to explain to you, that election was a direct result of his death, and the result of the election was that "Teddy's (Senate) seat" went to a Republican.

Sure-Oz
07-13-2010, 05:40 PM
He's basically downplaying Steinbrenner, said that he didnt win a game etc

Sure-Oz
07-13-2010, 05:41 PM
"if you dont like it you're fired!!!" "you haven't hired me yet!"

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 05:43 PM
Haha, RJ just stole my comment. We've devolved into a Kennedy and a bunch of Cards fans trying to rip on the Royals. Woo. How about that oil spill?

DN is a Royals fan and he made the initial point, but nice try.

DJ's left nut
07-13-2010, 05:46 PM
I was alluding to the organization's last push to win one before Mr. K died, and the dude was always a (relatively speaking, as things weren't totally crazy yet) willing spender.

Again, overall salaries were so much lower that the comparisons between the eras must be loose at best.

Absolutely, but I'm willing to bet that Mark Davis made more that season than a handful of teams in the league.

It's all relative.

The Royals were at the forefront of the expansion of Players' salaries. I just don't see how you can ignore that giving the spending patterns of the Royals under Kaufmann.

tk13
07-13-2010, 05:53 PM
That's not true, but I agree with much of the rest.

Well granted the sample size isn't enormous, but I don't think you can say it's not true. We were very active in 2003... added Leskanic, Lloyd, and Levine to the bullpen, traded for Brian Anderson to help the rotation and then traded for Rondell White to add some pop. All those moves except for Graeme Lloyd turned out okay. Most people probably don't even remember Rondell White was a Royal, but he actually played pretty well for us.

Then of course the next year people were picking us to win the division and we went out and signed a bunch of guys (Juan Gonzalez, Stairs, Santiago, Scott Sullivan) and that turned out horribly. But that's more on the guys evaluating the players.

DeezNutz
07-13-2010, 05:59 PM
Well granted the sample size isn't enormous, but I don't think you can say it's not true. We were very active in 2003... added Leskanic, Lloyd, and Levine to the bullpen, traded for Brian Anderson to help the rotation and then traded for Rondell White to add some pop. All those moves except for Graeme Lloyd turned out okay. Most people probably don't even remember Rondell White was a Royal, but he actually played pretty well for us.

Then of course the next year people were picking us to win the division and we went out and signed a bunch of guys (Juan Gonzalez, Stairs, Santiago, Scott Sullivan) and that turned out horribly. But that's more on the guys evaluating the players.

Please don't remind me about '04...

Leskanic was absolutely money, and I was thinking of White with my first response. I could be wrong, but memory says that these guys were more astute signings, rather than costly ones. Not saying this is a bad thing, just that it doesn't prove that Glass will go "all in."

WilliamTheIrish
07-13-2010, 06:53 PM
Absolutely, but I'm willing to bet that Mark Davis made more that season than a handful of teams in the league.

And you would be wrong.

It's all relative.

The Royals were at the forefront of the expansion of Players' salaries. I just don't see how you can ignore that giving the spending patterns of the Royals under Kaufmann.

Yea, I suppose you could say that. After 15 years of active free agency the Royals finally moved to the forefront of player salary expansion.

A far cry from"derision by other owners".

mlyonsd
07-13-2010, 07:03 PM
RIP.

You POS.

Spott
07-13-2010, 09:21 PM
Too bad Jerry Jones didn't die, too.

wazu
07-13-2010, 10:56 PM
Too bad Jerry Jones didn't die, too.

No, no. Jerry will bring DJ's Left Nut's version of "parity" to the NFL before he leaves this planet. When the Giants have a payroll that is 7 times what the Chiefs have, we can bitch about how if the Chiefs hit every move out of the park they could be somewhat competitive some years. It will be awesome.

SPchief
07-13-2010, 11:07 PM
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2010/07/13/george-steinbrenner/

ArrowheadMagic
07-13-2010, 11:11 PM
Was george bad for the game? Of course he was... no other team could spend 200 million on payroll and still turn a profit. But if you can do it, then why not? His market allowed him to spend that much. For him, it was his business, he made money... No other market in baseball would support that kind of payroll.



I hate him more because he owned a team in the 70's and 80's that my team the Royals battled for championships. Dont mind him doing something his market supported after 94.

LaChapelle
07-13-2010, 11:17 PM
Damn we are going to run out of eternal flame AIDS trees
before we get to Bin Laden
there is only four left

ArrowheadMagic
07-13-2010, 11:19 PM
Damn we are going to run out of eternal flame AIDS trees
before we get to Bin Laden
there is only four left


save the planet.... plant a tree.

wazu
07-13-2010, 11:28 PM
But if you can do it, then why not? His market allowed him to spend that much.

That's fine if you don't have a say in the structure of baseball salaries. But he did. A big say. Professional sports leagues have got to establish a level playing field for their competitions to have any credibility. The size of a city should not be a determining factor. If a city is too small to support a team that team shouldn't be a part of the league. Outside of that there needs to be a salary cap and/or revenue sharing so that at the end of the day salaries are within a reasonable distance of each other across the league. Not "somewhere" between 34 million and 206 million.

Steinbrenner used his power to bolster his team at the expense of the entire sport of major league baseball. Short-sighted and bad for the sport. When the NFL does the same thing, and in a few years the Chiefs, Packers, Vikings, etc are all deemed to be "small market teams" that can't compete because of the number of T.V.s in their relative cities, then sports will be pretty much dead for me.

I don't mind supporting a team and railing against bad management decisions, but when the structure of the league basically means my team's management has to be perfect just to occasionally compete, then I tune out.

salame
07-14-2010, 12:16 AM
http://www.overclock.net/gallery/data/500/dat_ass.jpg

Mecca
07-14-2010, 12:16 AM
Just so you know some teams don't want a cap because with a cap comes a floor and teams like the Pirates don't want that...

Guru
07-14-2010, 12:44 AM
When does George Costanza take over?

ArrowheadMagic
07-14-2010, 01:12 AM
I don't mind supporting a team and railing against bad management decisions, but when the structure of the league basically means my team's management has to be perfect just to occasionally compete, then I tune out.



Its the same in the NFL, even though the payrolls are the same. Champions arent built because we had the same payroll, its because we developed the talent.


Baseball is the same. SD is spending half what the Royals are this year, but they are leading their division.

Like to trade DDJ for Ryan Kalish and Oscar Tejeda from Boston. But our,KC, problem isnt amount paid....its who its been paid to. Our farm system has been rebuilt, we have the prospects coming up that will be ready in 3 yrs.



To blame all our issues on payroll are hollow. The KC market couldnt support what he spent ..... his could..... just means we needed to be smarter in what we developed and signed as FA's. If the Twins can do it, while cant we? If 8 out of our top 15 prospects make it, we are golden in 2013. Sell our producing guys now for the missing pieces.

Param
07-14-2010, 02:19 AM
That's fine if you don't have a say in the structure of baseball salaries. But he did. A big say. Professional sports leagues have got to establish a level playing field for their competitions to have any credibility. The size of a city should not be a determining factor. If a city is too small to support a team that team shouldn't be a part of the league. Outside of that there needs to be a salary cap and/or revenue sharing so that at the end of the day salaries are within a reasonable distance of each other across the league. Not "somewhere" between 34 million and 206 million.

Steinbrenner used his power to bolster his team at the expense of the entire sport of major league baseball. Short-sighted and bad for the sport. When the NFL does the same thing, and in a few years the Chiefs, Packers, Vikings, etc are all deemed to be "small market teams" that can't compete because of the number of T.V.s in their relative cities, then sports will be pretty much dead for me.

I don't mind supporting a team and railing against bad management decisions, but when the structure of the league basically means my team's management has to be perfect just to occasionally compete, then I tune out.

I really hope the NFL doesn't come to this, but it just seems like it might happen one day. Which would suck ass.

Param
07-14-2010, 02:25 AM
Its the same in the NFL, even though the payrolls are the same. Champions arent built because we had the same payroll, its because we developed the talent.


Baseball is the same. SD is spending half what the Royals are this year, but they are leading their division.

Like to trade DDJ for Ryan Kalish and Oscar Tejeda from Boston. But our,KC, problem isnt amount paid....its who its been paid to. Our farm system has been rebuilt, we have the prospects coming up that will be ready in 3 yrs.



To blame all our issues on payroll are hollow. The KC market couldnt support what he spent ..... his could..... just means we needed to be smarter in what we developed and signed as FA's. If the Twins can do it, while cant we? If 8 out of our top 15 prospects make it, we are golden in 2013. Sell our producing guys now for the missing pieces.

There's a problem with your league when the Pirates are spending $34 million and the Yankees are spending $206 million.

ArrowheadMagic
07-14-2010, 02:33 AM
There's a problem with your league when the Pirates are spending $34 million and the Yankees are spending $206 million.


There is.. there needs to be a ceiling and a floor. When the Padres can spend less than 40 million and be winning their division, is there the same problem? I think there should be a cap... but you cant also let owners spend next to nothing(MLB standards) and receive money from other teams.

Param
07-14-2010, 02:41 AM
There is.. there needs to be a ceiling and a floor. When the Padres can spend less than 40 million and be winning their division, is there the same problem? I think there should be a cap... but you cant also let owners spend next to nothing(MLB standards) and receive money from other teams.

Yes, there is a problem. Because every year, and because of that payroll, the Yankees will be in it. They may not win the world series, but every year they are right in the thick of things. And it's all because of that payroll.

Mecca
07-14-2010, 02:49 AM
Teams not spending enough is just as much of a problem as teams that overspend, atleast you can say the teams that spend a ton are trying, where as it appears some teams just care to turn the biggest profit they can.

ArrowheadMagic
07-14-2010, 03:04 AM
Yes, there is a problem. Because every year, and because of that payroll, the Yankees will be in it. They may not win the world series, but every year they are right in the thick of things. And it's all because of that payroll.


Yankees spend what they do, because their market supports it. Per capita they spend less per person in their market than KC does. Its a business .... in a sport that is idifficult to make money.... he found a way to make it... kudos.... shame on us to not force a cap... nor spend up to what should be a floor....


But in 2 yrs... when our farm matures....we will get ours.

OnTheWarpath58
07-14-2010, 09:28 AM
Yes, there is a problem. Because every year, and because of that payroll, the Yankees will be in it. They may not win the world series, but every year they are right in the thick of things. And it's all because of that payroll.

Bullshit.

Is that why the Cubs and Mets are "right in the thick of things" every year?

They spend a metric shit-ton of cash, and accomplish nothing.

You still have to have competent people making decisions.