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teedubya
07-16-2010, 01:55 PM
I'm Doooooooomed. LOL.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/69436

Obesity Rating for Every American Included in Stimulus-Mandated Electronic Health Records

New federal regulations issued this week stipulate that the electronic health records--that all Americans are supposed to have by 2014 under the terms of the stimulus law that President Barack Obama signed last year--must record not only the traditional measures of height and weight, but also the Body Mass Index: a measure of obesity.

The obesity-rating regulation states that every American's electronic health record must: “Calculate body mass index. Automatically calculate and display body mass index (BMI) based on a patient’s height and weight.”

The law also requires that these electronic health records be available--with appropriate security measures--on a national exchange.

The new regulations are one of the first steps towards the government’s goal of universal adoption of electronic health records (EHRs) by 2014, as outlined in the 2009 economic stimulus law. Specifically, the regulations issued on Tuesday by Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius and Dr. David Blumenthal, the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology, define the "meaningful use" of electronic records. Under the stimulus law, health care providers--including doctors and hospitals--must establish "meaningful use" of EHRs by 2014 in order to qualify for federal subsidies. After that, they will be subjected to penalties in the form of diminished Medicare and Medicaid payments for not establishing "meaningful use" of EHRs.

Section 3001 of the stimulus law says: "The National Coordinator shall, in consultation with other appropriate Federal agencies (including the National Institute of Standards and Technology), update the Federal Health IT Strategic Plan (developed as of June 3, 2008) to include specific objectives, milestones, and metrics with respect to the following: (i) The electronic exchange and use of health information and the enterprise integration of such information.‘‘(ii) The utilization of an electronic health record for each person in the United States by 2014."

Under this mandate in the stimulus law, Secretary Sebelius issued a regulation--developed by Dr. Blumenthal--that requires that all EHRs keep track of a person’s Body Mass Index (BMI) score. Body Mass Index is a ratio between a person’s weight and height, and is used to determine whether or not someone is overweight or obese. It is the preferred method of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) for measuring obesity.

Michelle Obama has made dealing with the problem of childhood obesity the main theme of her term as First Lady.

U.S. Surgeon General Regina Benjamin. (Photo by Penny Starr/CNSNews.com)
According to the CDC, “BMI provides a reliable indicator of body fatness for most people and is used to screen for weight categories that may lead to health problems.”

A person’s BMI score is used as a tool to screen for obesity or excessive body fat that could lead to other health problems. While it does not actually measure body fat directly, according to CDC, the BMI scores generally correlate with a person’s body fat percentage.

The new regulations also stipulate that the new electronic records be capable of sending public health data to state and federal health agencies such as HHS and CDC. The CDC, which calls American society “obesogenic” – meaning that American society itself promotes obesity – collects BMI scores from state health agencies every year to monitor obesity nationwide.

“Electronically record, retrieve, and transmit syndrome based public health surveillance information to public health agencies,” the regulations read.

With the spread of electronic health records, the CDC apparently will be able to collect such data more efficiently and with greater accuracy because the electronic record keeping systems can send the data automatically, eliminating the need for government – both state and federal – to keep, send, and process physical records.

38yrsfan
07-16-2010, 01:57 PM
fat chance that ever happening ............

Donger
07-16-2010, 01:57 PM
Please move to DC.

gblowfish
07-16-2010, 01:58 PM
I'M NOT FAT, I'M BIG BONED!!!

Dicky McElephant
07-16-2010, 01:58 PM
Please move to DC.

I hate Obama.



There.....that should get it moving.

Hog Farmer
07-16-2010, 01:58 PM
Obama= sleeper cell

Hog Farmer
07-16-2010, 02:00 PM
That's not fair, when I was born I have a birth defect that gave me a 30 pound schlong.

CoMoChief
07-16-2010, 02:00 PM
Obama - worst President ever not named Jimmy Carter

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 02:02 PM
This is a pretty good idea. It's not like they are forcing people to lose weight or discriminating against fat people.

RJ
07-16-2010, 02:04 PM
Is Obesity Rating your number of rep points divided by number of posts divided by two?

If not, please move the thread to DC!!!!!

Mr. Laz
07-16-2010, 02:04 PM
Obama - worst President ever not named Jimmy Carter
george w bush was the worst president EVER


yes, even worse than jimmy carter

Sully
07-16-2010, 02:05 PM
Here's an "under rated poster" list I'd definitely be on!

Rain Man
07-16-2010, 02:18 PM
This will be a boon to online dating if they can verify your score.

Donger
07-16-2010, 02:20 PM
This is a pretty good idea. It's not like they are forcing people to lose weight or discriminating against fat people.

Would you have felt the same way if you were still obese?

Donger
07-16-2010, 02:22 PM
george w bush was the worst president EVER


yes, even worse than jimmy carter

Are you very familiar with POTUS history?

Just Passin' By
07-16-2010, 02:23 PM
Are you very familiar with POTUS history?

Obviously not........

Cave Johnson
07-16-2010, 02:25 PM
This will be a boon to online dating if they can verify your score.

Yeah, but only if they develop a metric to identify the "skinny fat".

El Jefe
07-16-2010, 02:27 PM
Obama - worst President ever not named Jimmy Carter

THIS!

Kyle DeLexus
07-16-2010, 02:31 PM
This will be a boon to online dating if they can verify your score.

Great point.

DJ's left nut
07-16-2010, 02:36 PM
Obama - worst President ever not named Jimmy Carter

Give him time.

He has more government mandates and $10K road signs (which happen to look conspicuously like his campaign buttons) to foist on the public.

Obama will go screaming past Carter by 2011.

At least Carter knew better than to bow to Saudi leaders.

Otter
07-16-2010, 02:39 PM
Nothing to see here, government is not overstepping it's bounds!

Are you ugly? Slow? Have ADD? Depression?

You need to step in the line to left please.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 02:41 PM
Would you have felt the same way if you were still obese?

Yes.

Donger
07-16-2010, 02:44 PM
Yes.

Why do you think that the government wants this data?

sedated
07-16-2010, 02:48 PM
Well this is pretty stupid.

Lets use the data that has no bearing on health, as a determining factor for your health.

luv
07-16-2010, 02:53 PM
Well this is pretty stupid.

Lets use the data that has no bearing on health, as a determining factor for your health.

Are you saying weight has no bearing on one's overall health? I can list several problems I've had due to being overweight. Well, maybe not due to it, as they're problems thin people can have, too. I would be closer to correct by saying that being overweight made these problem more likely to occur.

Brock
07-16-2010, 02:57 PM
Are you saying weight has no bearing on one's overall health?

BMI doesn't.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 02:58 PM
Why do you think that the government wants this data?

To improve the health of Americans.

Donger
07-16-2010, 02:59 PM
To improve the health of Americans.

And you think that should be one of the responsibilities of our government?

Rain Man
07-16-2010, 03:03 PM
And you think that should be one of the responsibilities of our government?


Well, they have a stake in it now since they're providing health care or whatever.


I'm a little worried that they'll start reading about those ultra-low calorie diets and start enforcing them. We'll all get 1 cup of rice a day and will long for the days when we could eat things like fruits and vegetables.

Brock
07-16-2010, 03:04 PM
Have you done your cardio duty today, citizen?

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 03:04 PM
And you think that should be one of the responsibilities of our government?

Americans have failed at maintaining their health on their own.

That's why we have so many fat fucks walking around.

Forcing Americans to exercise isn't the answer, and wouldn't be right, but making it easier for them to do so might be.

Hopefully the government can come up with some national programs and encourage people to be a part of it.

Donger
07-16-2010, 03:04 PM
Well, they have a stake in it now since they're providing health care or whatever.


I'm a little worried that they'll start reading about those ultra-low calorie diets and start enforcing them. We'll all get 1 cup of rice a day and will long for the days when we could eat things like fruits and vegetables.

Or requiring you to visit the doctor even if you don't want to do so.

Silock
07-16-2010, 03:05 PM
BMI doesn't.

It's fairly close, but we've had this discussion before.

Donger
07-16-2010, 03:06 PM
Americans have failed at maintaining their health on their own.

That's why we have so many fat ****s walking around.

Forcing Americans to exercise isn't the answer, and wouldn't be right, but making it easier for them to do so might be.

Hopefully the government can come up with some national programs and encourage people to be a part of it.

There are such programs. They are voluntary, of course (now). There's a big difference between encouraging versus ordering.

Saulbadguy
07-16-2010, 03:08 PM
Would you have felt the same way if you were still obese?

I'm still "obese". Great idea, IMO.

RJ
07-16-2010, 03:09 PM
I wonder if they'll then tie in to the records from your grocery store's shopper card so they'll know whether you're just fat cause you're fat, or fat cause you're living on a steady diet of Doritos, Twinkies and bacon?

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 03:10 PM
There are such programs. They are voluntary, of course (now). There's a big difference between encouraging versus ordering.

Well here's what they can do with this data. They can target advertising for those programs more accurately.

If the average fat American was visited by a representative from a government-sponsored weight loss program, and encouraged to register and participate, I bet there would be fewer fat Americans.

But maybe I have my head way up my ass and America is hopelessly fat.

Here's a thought: currently the weight loss and exercise industry is thriving. Some people don't want to spend the money they feel they have to in order to lose weight. What if the government made it a lot cheaper for them?

Brock
07-16-2010, 03:11 PM
It's fairly close, but we've had this discussion before.

It's useless, but we've had this discussion before.

Donger
07-16-2010, 03:12 PM
Well here's what they can do with this data. They can target advertising for those programs more accurately.

If the average fat American was visited by a representative from a government-sponsored weight loss program, and encouraged to register and participate, I bet there would be fewer fat Americans.

But maybe I have my head way up my ass and America is hopelessly fat.

It's scares the crap out of me that anyone would welcome such a visit.

Silock
07-16-2010, 03:12 PM
It's useless, but we've had this discussion before.

Useless? No. Inaccurate for some people? Yes.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 03:13 PM
It's scares the crap out of me that anyone would welcome such a visit.

It's harmless, and potentially very beneficial.

And it would create jobs.

OBAMA!

DJ's left nut
07-16-2010, 03:13 PM
Americans have failed at maintaining their health on their own.

That's why we have so many fat ****s walking around.

Forcing Americans to exercise isn't the answer, and wouldn't be right, but making it easier for them to do so might be.

Hopefully the government can come up with some national programs and encourage people to be a part of it.

I apologize folks, but this is pretty much how my entire generation sees the world, GC is a bit of a simpleton, but his views on this particular front do mirror his general demographic.

Nope, not interested in coming up with our own solutions, but hopefully [sic], big brother can fix everything for us...

I still blame the Baby Boomers. Fuck you guys.

Brock
07-16-2010, 03:14 PM
Useless? No. Inaccurate for some people? Yes.

If it's inaccurate for some people, then maybe we need to find an accurate measurement for everybody. And you know they exist, so quit rationalizing this crap.

Heather
07-16-2010, 03:15 PM
This is a pretty good idea. It's not like they are forcing people to lose weight or discriminating against fat people.

I can almost guarantee that they will use this data in some form of discrimination down the road, but it will be presented as being for our own good, probably to do with increased premiums, sort of like they (insurance companies) are doing with smoking presently. However, being overweight and smoking are both bad for you and as health care is expensive, it would be wise to use certain incentives to get Americans to drop weight/quit smoking to try to bring down some of the expense. Of course, making fun of the overweight has been going on for years and that is a more direct approach which appears to have failed, although judging by your posts, it seems like you are going to continue to try that approach.

Garcia Bronco
07-16-2010, 03:15 PM
george w bush was the worst president EVER


yes, even worse than jimmy carter

Not even close. The worst President this country has ever had is US Grant.

Silock
07-16-2010, 03:15 PM
If it's inaccurate for some people, then maybe we need to find an accurate measurement for everybody. And you know they exist, so quit rationalizing this crap.

I don't disagree with that.

Heather
07-16-2010, 03:17 PM
I wonder if they'll then tie in to the records from your grocery store's shopper card so they'll know whether you're just fat cause you're fat, or fat cause you're living on a steady diet of Doritos, Twinkies and bacon?

mmmm...bacon.:homer:

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 03:17 PM
Nope, not interested in coming up with our own solutions, but hopefully [sic], big brother can fix everything for us...


So what is your solution?

teedubya
07-16-2010, 03:18 PM
Well here's what they can do with this data. They can target advertising for those programs more accurately.

If the average fat American was visited by a representative from a government-sponsored weight loss program, and encouraged to register and participate, I bet there would be fewer fat Americans.

But maybe I have my head way up my ass and America is hopelessly fat.

Here's a thought: currently the weight loss and exercise industry is thriving. Some people don't want to spend the money they feel they have to in order to lose weight. What if the government made it a lot cheaper for them?

There will be fewer fat Americans when things have less toxins in the food... and less High Fructose Corn Syrup... and less aspartame... and less shit.

But, the theory behind this is good... but I think the execution of this will be greatly flawed.

Garcia Bronco
07-16-2010, 03:18 PM
So what is your solution?

My solution is to stay out of people's personal business.

DJ's left nut
07-16-2010, 03:20 PM
So what is your solution?

Nothing.

Absolutely nothing.

We're responsible for our own decisions in this world and the ramifications of said decisions.

Tell the government to stop subsidizing fat people and if they die of heart disease, well they probably enjoyed their 50 years of eating whatever the fuck they wanted.

In either event - it was their choice and it didn't involve my money or my Congressman's time.

I know the concept of reaping what you sow died in the 1950s, but it really does have some merit.

Saulbadguy
07-16-2010, 03:20 PM
There will be fewer fat Americans when things have less toxins in the food... and less High Fructose Corn Syrup... and less aspartame... and less shit.



:LOL:

irishjayhawk
07-16-2010, 03:22 PM
Well this is pretty stupid.

Lets use the data that has no bearing on health, as a determining factor for your health.

Useless? No. Inaccurate for some people? Yes.

Pretty much both of these.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 03:22 PM
There will be fewer fat Americans when things have less toxins in the food... and less High Fructose Corn Syrup... and less aspartame... and less shit.


That would require overbearing regulation of the food industry.

Ultimately it's up to the individual. All the government can do is encourage people and make it easier for them.

CoMoChief
07-16-2010, 03:24 PM
george w bush was the worst president EVER


yes, even worse than jimmy carter

Hahaha, not even close.

RJ
07-16-2010, 03:25 PM
mmmm...bacon.:homer:


My favorite foods are cholesterol and saturated fat.

Sprinkle on a little sodium nitrate and tabasco and I'm all set!

penguinz
07-16-2010, 03:26 PM
Too bad BMI means nothing.

mlyonsd
07-16-2010, 03:26 PM
Attention: All fat people to the back of the bus.

DJ's left nut
07-16-2010, 03:28 PM
That would require overbearing regulation of the food industry.

Ultimately it's up to the individual. All the government can do is encourage people and make it easier for them.

All the government can do is STFU and let people take responsibility for their own lives.

The Federal Government is not your damn kindergarden teacher, it isn't your mother. It isn't designed to hold your hand and steer you along the proper path in life.

I just don't understand what is difficult about this concept.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 03:30 PM
All the government can do is STFU and let people take responsibility for their own lives.


Some people can't survive without the government's help.

DJ's left nut
07-16-2010, 03:31 PM
Some people can't survive without the government's help.

Shit happens.

We have morgues and cemetaries for just such a contingency.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 03:32 PM
Shit happens.

Let them die? Really?

You would cast thousands of people onto America's streets and watch them die of starvation and exposure? Including elderly Americans?

Awful.

BigMeatballDave
07-16-2010, 03:32 PM
george w bush was the worst president EVER


yes, even worse than jimmy carterThey all suck the penis...

DJ's left nut
07-16-2010, 03:32 PM
Let them die?

We'll make more.

Some of them might even be useful.

sedated
07-16-2010, 03:34 PM
Personally I have no problem discriminating against fat people who are fat because of their own habits. Charge them more for insurance (since they are probably just as expensive as smokers) and whatever else you want to do.

However, using BMI will cause as many if not more problems than it would solve. Its inaccurate in that it would punish the people the gov’t is trying to benefit – people who are in shape and workout. Muscle mass throws everything off. If it goes where a lot of people think it might go, Bruno deadlifting Buicks at Gold Gym every day will suddenly be considered obese and a health risk, pay higher premiums, and be discriminated against just like big Bertha stuffing her face with cheeseburgers at McDonalds.

Some people are overweight for other reasons besides their eating habits. If the gov’t is going to punish fat people, they need to make sure they are only punishing fat people, and broad assumptions based on the (intentionally) simplest formula known to man isn’t the way to do it.

Just Passin' By
07-16-2010, 03:35 PM
My solution is to stay out of people's personal business.

This

Baconeater
07-16-2010, 03:36 PM
My solution is to stay out of people's personal business.
Even when others' personal business costs us all money?

Just Passin' By
07-16-2010, 03:38 PM
Even when others' personal business costs us all money?

Other people's business doesn't cost you a dime, unless they're competing for your dollar in the same business. And that "cost" is known as competition.

RJ
07-16-2010, 03:39 PM
So are you guys against the BMI being included in the EHR's or just against the EHR's in general?

DJ's left nut
07-16-2010, 03:40 PM
Let them die? Really?

You would cast thousands of people onto America's streets and watch them die of starvation and exposure? Including elderly Americans?

Awful.

We managed to go a couple hundred years without throwing the elderly out into the streets to die.

That's the problem with your concept of reality.

People really do help each other. Family members support one another. Churches do. Communities do.

This idea that the we need the government to intercede in our affairs to protect us from the streets filling with the rotting corposes of octegenarians is just garbage put forth by a government that wants you to need it. They need you to feel like they're your only option. How else to they justified these ever increasing power grabs?

And folks like you have bought into it.

Save us, oh mighty gubbamint, save us helpless masses!

Spare me. The nation managed to survive just fine without a massive Federal monolith telling us what we can eat and who we can fuck.

I think we'll be alright...

DJ's left nut
07-16-2010, 03:40 PM
Even when others' personal business costs us all money?

Doesn't have to.

It does because we've chosen to allow government to subsidize poor decisions.

Yet another example of us using the government to solve a problem that the government itself has created.

And yet another pretty easy solution...

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 03:47 PM
We managed to go a couple hundred years without throwing the elderly out into the streets to die.

LOL

Are you saying America was a better place to live 100 years ago?

I think you are taking this to the extreme. The business world just wants to make money, so they're not going to solve the obesity problem. Expecting people to just magically become more responsible isn't going to happen, nor is the food industry going to change their ways.

The only remaining option is the government do something about it...saying that's a bad thing is just stupid. Where else is a solution going to come from?

People are fat in this country because the food industry dominates advertising and doesn't give a shit about keep people healthy. The only way to combat that is the government. So you either regulate the food industry, which would make everyone bitch and moan and would be wrong anyway, or you precisely target fat Americans with free weight loss, nutrition and exercise programs.

teedubya
07-16-2010, 03:49 PM
With the new Health Care reform thing, this shouldn't seem as much of a surprise. This is just the start, IMO.

If you smoke or are fat... you are the new "3/5".

Just Passin' By
07-16-2010, 03:50 PM
People are fat in this country because the food industry dominates advertising and doesn't give a shit about keep people healthy. The only way to combat that is the government. So you either regulate the food industry, which would make everyone bitch and moan and would be wrong anyway, or you precisely target fat Americans with free weight loss, nutrition and exercise programs.

People are fat in this country for a variety of reasons, and giving the government more power over people isn't the solution.

For that matter, it's unconstitutional anyway, although most people just ignore that pesky document.

Donger
07-16-2010, 03:51 PM
Let them die? Really?

You would cast thousands of people onto America's streets and watch them die of starvation and exposure? Including elderly Americans?

Awful.

On the plus side, fat people provide more Soylent Green.

Donger
07-16-2010, 03:51 PM
With the new Health Care reform thing, this shouldn't seem as much of a surprise. This is just the start, IMO.

If you smoke or are fat... you are the new "3/5".

ST TNG reference?

mlyonsd
07-16-2010, 03:52 PM
People are fat in this country because the food industry dominates advertising and doesn't give a shit about keep people healthy. The only way to combat that is the government. So you either regulate the food industry, which would make everyone bitch and moan and would be wrong anyway, or you precisely target fat Americans with free weight loss, nutrition and exercise programs.

And really really expensive health insurance if they choose not to fit into the government mold for their height and weight.

stevieray
07-16-2010, 03:52 PM
smokers..check
fat people..check
old people...check

ArrowheadHawk
07-16-2010, 03:53 PM
There will be fewer fat Americans when things have less toxins in the food... and less High Fructose Corn Syrup... and less aspartame... and less shit.

But, the theory behind this is good... but I think the execution of this will be greatly flawed.What? Actually they should replace corn syrup with aspertame. That would help.

sedated
07-16-2010, 03:53 PM
People are fat in this country because the food industry dominates advertising and doesn't give a shit about keep people healthy. The only way to combat that is the government. So you either regulate the food industry, which would make everyone bitch and moan and would be wrong anyway, or you precisely target fat Americans with free weight loss, nutrition and exercise programs.

regulating the food industry "would be wrong"? what about the FDA?

Brock
07-16-2010, 03:55 PM
What? Actually they should replace corn syrup with aspertame. That would help.

No, it wouldn't.

DJ's left nut
07-16-2010, 03:56 PM
LOL

Are you saying America was a better place to live 100 years ago?

I think you are taking this to the extreme. The business world just wants to make money, so they're not going to solve the obesity problem. Expecting people to just magically become more responsible isn't going to happen, nor is the food industry going to change their ways.

The only remaining option is the government do something about it...saying that's a bad thing is just stupid. Where else is a solution going to come from?

People are fat in this country because the food industry dominates advertising and doesn't give a shit about keep people healthy. The only way to combat that is the government. So you either regulate the food industry, which would make everyone bitch and moan and would be wrong anyway, or you precisely target fat Americans with free weight loss, nutrition and exercise programs.

People are fat in this country because of decisions they make.

You act as though the advertisements are pumping fat into their blood. Or that their eyes are being held open and forced to watch said fat pumping ads.

I'm seen as heartless in this discussion when I at least have enough faith in people to believe they're capable of making their own decisions and should thus be bound by them.

But entirely too many people have your attitude - people are helpless and only the government can step in to save them from themselves.

Oh yeah, and to whatever degree the country is better now than it was 100 years ago, that has everything to do with technological innovation and nothing to do with government intervention. The average American has less purchasing power per hour worked than he did 100 years ago and that's because much of that purchasing power is going into propping up a massive federal apparatus that tells us what we can do and when we can do it.

ClevelandBronco
07-16-2010, 03:56 PM
...If the average fat American was visited by a representative from a government-sponsored weight loss program...

A government-sponsored weight loss program? Are you out of what little there ever was of your fucking mind?

Brock
07-16-2010, 03:57 PM
People are fat in this country because the food industry dominates advertising and doesn't give a shit about keep people healthy. The only way to combat that is the government. So you either regulate the food industry, which would make everyone bitch and moan and would be wrong anyway, or you precisely target fat Americans with free weight loss, nutrition and exercise programs.

Bullshit. People are fat in this country because they eat too much and they don't exercise. Food industry, advertising, and government inaction have nothing to do with it. Everybody knows they should eat better and they should exercise and they choose not to.

DJ's left nut
07-16-2010, 03:57 PM
ST TNG reference?

I'm gonna go with an Article 1, Section 2 of the Constitution reference.

Black folks = 3/5 of a person.

ArrowheadHawk
07-16-2010, 03:58 PM
No, it wouldn't.Sure it would. Zero calories vs. A Lot of calories.

teedubya
07-16-2010, 03:58 PM
What? Actually they should replace corn syrup with aspertame. That would help.

Considering that aspartame is the devil's semen...

Brock
07-16-2010, 03:58 PM
Sure it would. Zero calories vs. A Lot of calories.

Read up on it and get back to me when you're a little more educated.

DJ's left nut
07-16-2010, 03:58 PM
A government-sponsored weight loss program? Are you out of what little there ever was of your ****ing mind?

Perhaps not, but he sure has been indoctrinated well, hasn't he?

Jesus, the Government has wet dreams thinking about the job they've done on this sap.

ArrowheadHawk
07-16-2010, 03:58 PM
Considering that aspartame is the devil's semen...It helped me lose 50 pounds.

AndChiefs
07-16-2010, 03:58 PM
Personally I have no problem discriminating against fat people who are fat because of their own habits. Charge them more for insurance (since they are probably just as expensive as smokers) and whatever else you want to do.

However, using BMI will cause as many if not more problems than it would solve. Its inaccurate in that it would punish the people the gov’t is trying to benefit – people who are in shape and workout. Muscle mass throws everything off. If it goes where a lot of people think it might go, Bruno deadlifting Buicks at Gold Gym every day will suddenly be considered obese and a health risk, pay higher premiums, and be discriminated against just like big Bertha stuffing her face with cheeseburgers at McDonalds.

Some people are overweight for other reasons besides their eating habits. If the gov’t is going to punish fat people, they need to make sure they are only punishing fat people, and broad assumptions based on the (intentionally) simplest formula known to man isn’t the way to do it.

BMI is an awful statistic. My BMI lists me as obese. I go to the gym five days a week for an hour and a half to two hours. I do cardio and lifting.

While I'm not even extremely muscular I'm listed as obese. It's ridiculous.

ArrowheadHawk
07-16-2010, 03:59 PM
Read up on it and get back to me when you're a little more educated.I have better shit to do with my time.

Brock
07-16-2010, 03:59 PM
It helped me lose 50 pounds.

Oh well, at least we have this useful anecdotal evidence. Let's apply it to every man, woman and child in the USA.

Brock
07-16-2010, 03:59 PM
I have better shit to do with my time.

You're a fucking retard.

AndChiefs
07-16-2010, 04:00 PM
I have better shit to do with my time.

Aspartame increases hunger and causes you to eat more. I doubt the aspartame alone helped you lose the weight. If so, you're special. There's a reason so many fat people buying Diet Coke's are still fat.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 04:01 PM
People are fat in this country for a variety of reasons, and giving the government more power over people isn't the solution.


The major reason is the food industry.

Unless some wealthy philanthropist decides to do the entire country a favor, the government is going to have to do something about it.

ArrowheadHawk
07-16-2010, 04:01 PM
You're a ****ing retard.:spock: I'm in a message board asking you to tell me why its not better and you basically respond with. "I'm not going to tell you go find out for yourself". And now you resort to name calling. Great way to have a discussion.

Brock
07-16-2010, 04:01 PM
The major reason is the food industry.

No, it isn't. It's behavior.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 04:01 PM
Bullshit. People are fat in this country because they eat too much and they don't exercise. Food industry, advertising, and government inaction have nothing to do with it. Everybody knows they should eat better and they should exercise and they choose not to.

People are a lot fatter now than they were 50 years ago.

Why? The food industry changed.

Rain Man
07-16-2010, 04:02 PM
I saw a documentary about American deserters living in North Korea a while back, and it was interesting. There was a small handful of them, and I think the Koreans did things like kidnap white wives for them and stuff. It was a very strange world they lived in, and particularly odd to see their kids, who were white but had completely grown up in the Kim cult. Very strange.

One of the most striking lines to me was this one guy, a big ol' fat American guy who'd been there for decades, talking about how well he was treated. He said something like, "Even when times were hard, they never cut my food rations." (He got choked up saing it.) 1.6 kilos a day. I always got it. [rain man note: I could be wrong on the amount. Working from memory.]

It was an interesting movie. Here's a review: "Crossing the Line". http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/19/movies/19cros.html

Brock
07-16-2010, 04:02 PM
:spock: I'm in a message board asking you to tell me why its not better and you basically respond with. "I'm not going to tell you go find out for yourself". And now you resort to name calling. Great way to have a discussion.

Do you want me to post links? Or are you too fucking intellectually lazy to read them?

ArrowheadHawk
07-16-2010, 04:02 PM
Aspartame increases hunger and causes you to eat more. I doubt the aspartame alone helped you lose the weight. If so, you're special. There's a reason so many fat people buying Diet Coke's are still fat.Look Brock an inteligent answer....You are right it wasn't diet soda alone that caused me to lose weight. It was calorie counting which was greatly helped by drinking Diet rather than Regular soda.

Brock
07-16-2010, 04:03 PM
People are a lot fatter now than they were 50 years ago.

Why? The food industry changed.

What hasn't changed since 50 years ago? Good grief.LMAO

ClevelandBronco
07-16-2010, 04:03 PM
The major reason is the food industry.

Unless some wealthy philanthropist decides to do the entire country a favor, the government is going to have to do something about it.

I really hope you get killed by a Frito-Lay delivery truck.

sedated
07-16-2010, 04:03 PM
There's a reason so many fat people buying Diet Coke's are still fat.

but...but it makes up for the calories in a double quarter pounder with cheese!!

DJ's left nut
07-16-2010, 04:03 PM
The major reason is the food industry.

Unless some wealthy philanthropist decides to do the entire country a favor, the government is going to have to do something about it.

Yup.

The food industry shoves food in peoples mouths and plants them on the couch.

The food industry forces people into hurried lifestyles that require them to eat processed foods.

Hell, if you want to blame something - let's blame the entity that takes 2/3 of your wealth through various sales/business/income taxes and parses out out amongst useless programs. That same entity that forces you to work harder to take home less so you don't have time to make healthy meals, excercise like you should or get the appropriate amount of sleep.

Let's go ahead and blame the entity that you want to give more control.

You do not have the chops for this discussion. This is like punching a retard but at least the retard knows how badly he's getting his ass kicked.

You really don't have a clue.

ArrowheadHawk
07-16-2010, 04:04 PM
Do you want me to post links? Or are you too ****ing intellectually lazy to read them?I'm open to links. Much more productive than name calling.

stevieray
07-16-2010, 04:04 PM
People are a lot fatter now than they were 50 years ago.

Why?

breakdown of family..single parents, and personal irresponsibilty

Brock
07-16-2010, 04:04 PM
Look Brock an inteligent answer....You are right it wasn't diet soda alone that caused me to lose weight. It was calorie counting which was greatly helped by drinking Diet rather than Regular soda.

So it wasn't the aspartame that caused you to lose weight. Thanks for finally admitting it.

Brock
07-16-2010, 04:05 PM
There's so many more TV shows than there were 50 years ago!! It's TV'S FAULT OMGZ

DJ's left nut
07-16-2010, 04:06 PM
People are a lot fatter now than they were 50 years ago.

Why? The food industry changed.

The American lifestyle changed.

The food industry adapted to it.

You honestly think it's the 'food industry' (and you don't even have a concrete definition of what you're talking about) that drove the country to working longer hours? You think it's the food industry that destroyed the family meal or exercise?

Jesus you're stupid. The idea of a spurious correlation doesn't even enter your skull, does it?

sedated
07-16-2010, 04:06 PM
People are a lot fatter now than they were 50 years ago.

Why? The food industry changed.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the increase in technology like cars, leading to the suburban sprawl, which made walking obsolete. Or the shift from industrial jobs to office jobs. Or the invention of television that keeps people inside on the couch whenever they have free time, rather than outside doing something physical.

Life is easier than it used to be. Just watch "Wall-E" for a glimpse into our possible future.

DJ's left nut
07-16-2010, 04:07 PM
breakdown of family..single parents, and ipersonal irresponsibilty

The food industry caused that.

People are fat because McDonalds tells them to be.

Let's not discuss what led to the rise of fast foods, that would require entirely too much insight.

mikey23545
07-16-2010, 04:08 PM
We'll all get 1 cup of rice a day and will long for the days when we could eat things like fruits and vegetables.

Oh, you mean like the people of North Korea?

Don't worry, Obama is getting us there as fast as he can.

seclark
07-16-2010, 04:10 PM
breakdown of family..single parents, and personal irresponsibilty

this, plus a lot more occupations consisted of more physical activity.
edit, to add that more people ate meals at home, together.
sec

stevieray
07-16-2010, 04:11 PM
this, plus a lot more occupations consisted of more physical activity.
sec

yup... a serve me society is dibilitating.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 04:14 PM
You do not have the chops for this discussion. This is like punching a retard but at least the retard knows how badly he's getting his ass kicked.

You really don't have a clue.

Your desire to rip me is clouding your judgment.

You don't need "chops" for this discussion. It's plainly obvious that the food industry is to blame. Portion sizes have increased significantly and there are more unhealthy options for dining out, and more of those options.

Don't get me started on food delivery, the internet, grocery stores....

RJ
07-16-2010, 04:14 PM
this, plus a lot more occupations consisted of more physical activity.
edit, to add that more people ate meals at home, together.
sec


I think those are the biggest reasons. I wish I had a way to be more physically active while I'm at work.

Kyle DeLexus
07-16-2010, 04:15 PM
So it wasn't the aspartame that caused you to lose weight. Thanks for finally admitting it.

To be fair, he did say it helped not caused. Since he used helped, it was an accurate statement.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 04:17 PM
Skinny asian people come to America and turned into fatasses all the time.

Why? Because the entire culture of food and eating is different here. We're constantly bombarded with MORE FOOD FOR LESS MONEY advertising and shit like TACO BELL FOURTHMEAL!!!!

DJ's left nut
07-16-2010, 04:20 PM
Your desire to rip me is clouding your judgment.

You don't need "chops" for this discussion. It's plainly obvious that the food industry is to blame. Portion sizes have increased significantly and there are more unhealthy options for dining out, and more of those options.

Don't get me started on food delivery, the internet, grocery stores....

You are a stunningly shallow thinker.

But I'm sure I'm not the first to tell you that.

I'll even point you in the right direction - Why has a society previously known for self-sufficiency become beholden to "the food industry"?

luv
07-16-2010, 04:20 PM
I'm sure it has nothing to do with the increase in technology like cars, leading to the suburban sprawl, which made walking obsolete. Or the shift from industrial jobs to office jobs. Or the invention of television that keeps people inside on the couch whenever they have free time, rather than outside doing something physical.

Life is easier than it used to be. Just watch "Wall-E" for a glimpse into our possible future.

Well said.

"When I was a kid", we didn't need programs designed to remind kids to get outside and play for 60 minutes a day. Hell, our parents had a hard time getting us to come inside.

Brock
07-16-2010, 04:21 PM
To be fair, he did say it helped not caused. Since he used helped, it was an accurate statement.

Well, he could have said that he smoked a cigarette instead of drinking a soda and it helped him lose weight. That doesn't make it a good idea for everybody else.

DJ's left nut
07-16-2010, 04:22 PM
Skinny asian people come to America and turned into fatasses all the time.

Why? Because the entire culture of food and eating is different here. We're constantly bombarded with MORE FOOD FOR LESS MONEY advertising and shit like TACO BELL FOURTHMEAL!!!!

So it's food that drove the working world?

In essence, "the food industry" dominates the whole of American society?

You couldn't be seeing this more backwards.

Our culinary proclivities are driven by a societal trend away from the family, away from responsibility. It's most certainly not "the food industry" that's driving the engine here, they're simply responding to the trend.

Kyle DeLexus
07-16-2010, 04:23 PM
Skinny asian people come to America and turned into fatasses all the time.

Why? Because the entire culture of food and eating is different here. We're constantly bombarded with MORE FOOD FOR LESS MONEY advertising and shit like TACO BELL FOURTHMEAL!!!!

What about the skinny asian people that come here and stay skinny? It's not really the food industry, it's the choices people make...granted there seem to be more unhealthy options than healthy ones these days.

sedated
07-16-2010, 04:27 PM
It's plainly obvious that the food industry is to blame. Portion sizes have increased significantly and there are more unhealthy options for dining out, and more of those options.

advertising exists across all industries. people are still responsible for their own choices.

do you think the gov't should control people's spending, since advertising has caused so many people to run up credit they can't pay for? "Sorry Claythan, you can't have that Jango Fett replica, its not a healthy purchase."

RJ
07-16-2010, 04:29 PM
So it's food that drove the working world?

In essence, "the food industry" dominates the whole of American society?

You couldn't be seeing this more backwards.

Our culinary proclivities are driven by a societal trend away from the family, away from responsibility. It's most certainly not "the food industry" that's driving the engine here, they're simply responding to the trend.


?????

Brock
07-16-2010, 04:29 PM
"They gave me too much food to eat, it's their fault I used to be a fatass"

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 04:30 PM
What about the skinny asian people that come here and stay skinny? It's not really the food industry, it's the choices people make...granted there seem to be more unhealthy options than healthy ones these days.

Exactly. It's now easier for people to make the unhealthy choice. There's more temptation.

You can get practically whatever you want, wherever you want, whenever you want. Or you can just sit at home and have it delivered.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 04:31 PM
do you think the gov't should control people's spending, since advertising has caused so many people to run up credit they can't pay for?

I'm not advocating control.

Garcia Bronco
07-16-2010, 04:31 PM
Even when others' personal business costs us all money?

If we weren't in their business then it wouldn't cost us money.

RJ
07-16-2010, 04:32 PM
Exactly. It's now easier for people to make the unhealthy choice. There's more temptation.

You can get practically whatever you want, wherever you want, whenever you want. Or you can just sit at home and have it delivered.


Yeah, that's because it's what people want.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 04:33 PM
Yeah, that's because it's what people want.

Advertising makes you want it.

During the last four decades, fast food has infiltrated every nook and cranny of American society. An industry that began with a handful of modest hot dog and hamburger stands in Southern California has spread to every corner of the nation, selling a broad range of foods wherever paying customers may be found. Fast food is now served not only at restaurants and drive-thrus but also at stadiums, airports, college campuses and elementary schools, on cruise ships, trains and airplanes, at Kmarts, Wal-Marts, gas stations and even hospital cafeterias. In 1970, Americans spent about $6 billion on fast food. Last year they spent more than $100 billion on fast food.


Americans now spend more money on fast food than they do on higher education, personal computers, software or new cars. They spend more on fast food than on movies, books, magazines, newspapers, videos and recorded music - combined.

Brock
07-16-2010, 04:33 PM
Advertising makes you want it.

[/B]

No. Enjoying eating that kind of food makes them want it.

ClevelandBronco
07-16-2010, 04:34 PM
If we would just legalize drugs and outlaw Quarter-Pounders we'd solve all our problems.

RJ
07-16-2010, 04:34 PM
Advertising makes you want it.


The chicken or the egg?

luv
07-16-2010, 04:39 PM
Advertising makes you want it.

Advertising doesn't make you want it. Advertising finds out what you want, then makes it appeal to you. You already want it.

BigRichard
07-16-2010, 04:41 PM
regulating the food industry "would be wrong"? what about the FDA?

Well according to some people we shouldn't have the FDA either. We should get the government out of our food.

Silock
07-16-2010, 04:44 PM
BMI is an awful statistic. My BMI lists me as obese. I go to the gym five days a week for an hour and a half to two hours. I do cardio and lifting.

While I'm not even extremely muscular I'm listed as obese. It's ridiculous.

What are your stats? Height and weight? I bet you're not actually obese according to the BMI scale.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 04:44 PM
Advertising doesn't make you want it. Advertising finds out what you want, then makes it appeal to you. You already want it.

Go watch that video Zach posted the other day.

People didn't even know they wanted chunky-style spaghetti sauce. They told Prego they wanted something entirely different.

Then Prego started giving them options...

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 04:47 PM
No. Enjoying eating that kind of food makes them want it.

I was sitting in a movie theater the other day, and this big ad started playing with a giant soda and popcorn. The soda was fizzing and sparkling, the popcorn had butter running over it...it looked so inviting.

Before that ad I wasn't even thinking about popcorn or soda. After it, I had to resist temptation.

Watch Morgan Spurlock's Super Size Me and tell me the food industry isn't to blame....

RJ
07-16-2010, 04:47 PM
Go watch that video Zach posted the other day.

People didn't even know they wanted chunky-style spaghetti sauce. They told Prego they wanted something entirely different.

Then Prego started giving them options...


So what would you have the government do, specifically, about fat folks and the food industry? What sort of laws would you create?

Silock
07-16-2010, 04:48 PM
Also, Aspartame isn't evil in small amounts. Just like anything, the devil is in the dosage.

ClevelandBronco
07-16-2010, 04:48 PM
Advertising doesn't make you want it. Advertising finds out what you want, then makes it appeal to you. You already want it.

Yes. What advertising really does is repackage and sell you your own already existing desires and convince you to associate satisfying those desires with a thing that's for sale. The beautiful part is that as long as they're selling you your own deepest cravings, it doesn't matter what the thing is that they want you to buy. You'll buy it.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 04:49 PM
Advertising doesn't make you want it. Advertising finds out what you want, then makes it appeal to you. You already want it.

This doesn't even make sense, luv.

Making someone want something is making it appeal to them.

You can create appeal without previous desire. Watch a movie trailer.

luv
07-16-2010, 04:49 PM
The chicken or the egg?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38238685/ns/technology_and_science-science/

DJ's left nut
07-16-2010, 04:50 PM
Advertising doesn't make you want it. Advertising finds out what you want, then makes it appeal to you. You already want it.

Don't confuse the boy.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 04:50 PM
So what would you have the government do, specifically, about fat folks and the food industry? What sort of laws would you create?

If you go back and read my previous posts, I'm not advocating legislation or control. Rather an effort to make losing weight, exercising and eating healthy easier and cheaper.

That's really all they can do. Or should do.

luv
07-16-2010, 04:50 PM
This doesn't even make sense, luv.

Making someone want something is making it appeal to them.

You can create appeal without previous desire. Watch a movie trailer.

Just because an ad comes on doesn't mean I'm going to go out and get popcorn unless I want it.

RJ
07-16-2010, 04:51 PM
This doesn't even make sense, luv.

Making someone want something is making it appeal to them.

You can create appeal without previous desire. Watch a movie trailer.


Dude, it's not a movie, it's freaking food. There's not a living thing on this planet that isn't born wanting it.

Kyle DeLexus
07-16-2010, 04:51 PM
I was sitting in a movie theater the other day, and this big ad started playing with a giant soda and popcorn. The soda was fizzing and sparkling, the popcorn had butter running over it...it looked so inviting.

Before that ad I wasn't even thinking about popcorn or soda. After it, I had to resist temptation.

Watch Morgan Spurlock's Super Size Me and tell me the food industry isn't to blame....

Sure advertising works...companies wouldn't spend billions every year on it if it didn't, but It's still about choice. People sure resist temptation when they see a 24 hour fitness ad. I know I don't blame advertising when I decide to have fastfood...I blame myself for being a overindulging fatass.

AndChiefs
07-16-2010, 04:51 PM
What are your stats? Height and weight? I bet you're not actually obese according to the BMI scale.

6'2, 210, 27 BMI.

And you're right Silock...I just double checked it and I'm only "overweight". For some reason I was thinking 25 was obese not 30.

DJ's left nut
07-16-2010, 04:51 PM
I was sitting in a movie theater the other day, and this big ad started playing with a giant soda and popcorn. The soda was fizzing and sparkling, the popcorn had butter running over it...it looked so inviting.

Before that ad I wasn't even thinking about popcorn or soda. After it, I had to resist temptation.

Watch Morgan Spurlock's Super Size Me and tell me the food industry isn't to blame....

You don't recognize the irony in you citing a faux documentary as the foundation for you blaming "the food industry" for America being fat?

No, of course you don't.

Just Passin' By
07-16-2010, 04:52 PM
Go watch that video Zach posted the other day.

People didn't even know they wanted chunky-style spaghetti sauce. They told Prego they wanted something entirely different.

Then Prego started giving them options...

People wanted a particular style of sauce. They hadn't been able to put that desire into words in such a fashion that the spaghetti sauce industry could cater to their desires. Once that desire was discovered, the food was made, Prego sales improved and the spaghetti sauce industry was changed dramatically.

What part of "consumer driven" are you missing there?

RJ
07-16-2010, 04:52 PM
If you go back and read my previous posts, I'm not advocating legislation or control. Rather an effort to make losing weight, exercising and eating healthy easier and cheaper.

That's really all they can do. Or should do.


Okay, that at least makes more sense to me than trying to legislate advertising.

ClevelandBronco
07-16-2010, 04:52 PM
I was sitting in a movie theater the other day, and this big ad started playing with a giant soda and popcorn. The soda was fizzing and sparkling, the popcorn had butter running over it...it looked so inviting.

Before that ad I wasn't even thinking about popcorn or soda. After it, I had to resist temptation.

Watch Morgan Spurlock's Super Size Me and tell me the food industry isn't to blame....

Why "blame" anyone? You have vulnerabilities, but you're not to "blame" for them. Everyone has them.

Just Passin' By
07-16-2010, 04:54 PM
If you go back and read my previous posts, I'm not advocating legislation or control. Rather an effort to make losing weight, exercising and eating healthy easier and cheaper.

That's really all they can do. Or should do.

And seat belts will just be a suggestion, like non-smoking regulations will just give people a small area of freedom in an enclosed space full of smokers.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 04:54 PM
Dude, it's not a movie, it's freaking food. There's not a living thing on this planet that isn't born wanting it.

We're talking about a specific type of food, though.

It's like stuffed-crust pizza. Before I knew about stuffed-crust pizza, I had no desire for it. It never thought to myself, I want some pizza with cheese stuffed in the crust. I never thought to myself, this pizza would be so much better if it's crust was stuffed with cheese.

The thought never entered my head.

Then pizza hut started advertising pizza with CHEESE STUFFED INTO THE CRUST!!!!!!!!!

I had to fucking have it.

And so I started eating even more fattening and caloric-ridden slices of pizza.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 04:55 PM
You don't recognize the irony in you citing a faux documentary as the foundation for you blaming "the food industry" for America being fat?

No, of course you don't.

Super Size Me is fake?

ClevelandBronco
07-16-2010, 04:56 PM
If you go back and read my previous posts, I'm not advocating legislation or control...

But you are advocating a government-sponsored weight-loss program,and that's enough reason to ridicule you.

DJ's left nut
07-16-2010, 04:56 PM
We're talking about a specific type of food, though.

It's like stuffed-crust pizza. Before I knew about stuffed-crust pizza, I had no desire for it. It never thought to myself, I want some pizza with cheese stuffed in the crust. I never thought to myself, this pizza would be so much better if it's crust was stuffed with cheese.

The thought never entered my head.

Then pizza hut started advertising pizza with CHEESE STUFFED INTO THE CRUST!!!!!!!!!

I had to ****ing have it.

And so I started eating even more fattening and caloric-ridden slices of pizza.

Yup.

The Federal Government loves you.

AndChiefs
07-16-2010, 04:57 PM
We're talking about a specific type of food, though.

It's like stuffed-crust pizza. Before I knew about stuffed-crust pizza, I had no desire for it. It never thought to myself, I want some pizza with cheese stuffed in the crust. I never thought to myself, this pizza would be so much better if it's crust was stuffed with cheese.

The thought never entered my head.

Then pizza hut started advertising pizza with CHEESE STUFFED INTO THE CRUST!!!!!!!!!

I had to ****ing have it.

And so I started eating even more fattening and caloric-ridden slices of pizza.

Just because you personally didn't tell them you wanted it doesn't mean others did not. They don't just put something in the marketplace and start advertising and selling it without someone telling them they want it.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 04:58 PM
Just because an ad comes on doesn't mean I'm going to go out and get popcorn unless I want it.

Well, some people are fairly open to suggestion and can be swayed easily.

Donger
07-16-2010, 04:59 PM
Well, some people are fairly open to suggestion and can be swayed easily.

Indeed, just look at the 2008 election.

Silock
07-16-2010, 05:00 PM
6'2, 210, 27 BMI.

And you're right Silock...I just double checked it and I'm only "overweight". For some reason I was thinking 25 was obese not 30.

See, even for guys that go to the gym regularly, BMI isn't TOO far off. It's not totally accurate, but hardly anything that's generalizable is. For instance, if I let my diet go a bit and don't stay shredded, my BMI creeps up into overweight. But if I stay at a very low body fat, I can keep all my muscle mass and still be considered "normal" bodyweight, albeit at the higher end.

Part of the problem for guys who work out is that they think they need to weigh more than they actually do to maintain muscle mass or be "big." As for what that means for BMI, if the gov't is going to use it in some calculations, then there needs to be an exemption for people who teeter on the normal/overweight boundary pending a doctor's exam.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 05:00 PM
Just because you personally didn't tell them you wanted it doesn't mean others did not. They don't just put something in the marketplace and start advertising and selling it without someone telling them they want it.

So you're telling me 50 years ago Americans only wanted healthy food, and then they just suddenly started wanting unhealthy food?

Bull fucking shit.

Unhealthy food became more plentiful, easier to get and was promoted more.

Kyle DeLexus
07-16-2010, 05:01 PM
Just because you personally didn't tell them you wanted it doesn't mean others did not. They don't just put something in the marketplace and start advertising and selling it without someone telling them they want it.

Exactly. Enough people order Extra Cheese and the folks over at pizza hut got to thinking "you know people love cheese, how can this help us increase sales?" Then after a bunch of crap ideas that no one would like, someone says "what if we put cheese IN the crust?"

If you like pizza and you like cheese, simple addition would assume that you'll like pizza with cheese baked into the crust. Just because you never thought of having it doesn't mean you don't already have a desire for it.

Silock
07-16-2010, 05:02 PM
So you're telling me 50 years ago Americans only wanted healthy food, and then they just suddenly started wanting unhealthy food?

Bull fucking shit.

Unhealthy food became more plentiful, easier to get and was promoted more.

I agree with GoChiefs on this. It's still up to the individual to resist temptation.

ClevelandBronco
07-16-2010, 05:02 PM
Well, some people are fairly open to suggestion and can be swayed easily.

There's nothing much to sway. Your appetite already exists. They just have to make you feel good about your decision to indulge your desire.

You really don't understand this?

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 05:04 PM
There's nothing much to sway. Your appetite already exists.

Like I said, I had no desire for popcorn when I sat down in that movie theater. I was thinking about the movie.

Suddenly I wanted popcorn.

Just Passin' By
07-16-2010, 05:04 PM
See, even for guys that go to the gym regularly, BMI isn't TOO far off. It's not totally accurate, but hardly anything that's generalizable is. For instance, if I let my diet go a bit and don't stay shredded, my BMI creeps up into overweight. But if I stay at a very low body fat, I can keep all my muscle mass and still be considered "normal" bodyweight, albeit at the higher end.

Part of the problem for guys who work out is that they think they need to weigh more than they actually do to maintain muscle mass or be "big." As for what that means for BMI, if the gov't is going to use it in some calculations, then there needs to be an exemption for people who teeter on the normal/overweight boundary pending a doctor's exam.

BMI is wildly off for those of certain body types, as a host of professional athletes can tell you.

ClevelandBronco
07-16-2010, 05:04 PM
Exactly. Enough people order Extra Cheese and the folks over at pizza hut got to thinking "you know people love cheese, how can this help us increase sales?" Then after a bunch of crap ideas that no one would like, someone says "what if we put cheese IN the crust?"

If you like pizza and you like cheese, simple addition would assume that you'll like pizza with cheese baked into the crust. Just because you never thought of having it doesn't mean you don't already have a desire for it.

He gets it.

kc rush
07-16-2010, 05:05 PM
We're talking about a specific type of food, though.

It's like stuffed-crust pizza. Before I knew about stuffed-crust pizza, I had no desire for it. It never thought to myself, I want some pizza with cheese stuffed in the crust. I never thought to myself, this pizza would be so much better if it's crust was stuffed with cheese.

The thought never entered my head.

Then pizza hut started advertising pizza with CHEESE STUFFED INTO THE CRUST!!!!!!!!!

I had to ****ing have it.

And so I started eating even more fattening and caloric-ridden slices of pizza.



http://irishcalvinist.com/files/2006/07/jedi-mind-trick.jpg

You will buy cheese stuffed pizza

You will buy popcorn

You will eat fast food

You will attend the government mandated fat camp

Move along

AndChiefs
07-16-2010, 05:05 PM
See, even for guys that go to the gym regularly, BMI isn't TOO far off. It's not totally accurate, but hardly anything that's generalizable is. For instance, if I let my diet go a bit and don't stay shredded, my BMI creeps up into overweight. But if I stay at a very low body fat, I can keep all my muscle mass and still be considered "normal" bodyweight, albeit at the higher end.

Part of the problem for guys who work out is that they think they need to weigh more than they actually do to maintain muscle mass or be "big." As for what that means for BMI, if the gov't is going to use it in some calculations, then there needs to be an exemption for people who teeter on the normal/overweight boundary pending a doctor's exam.

I'm just more afraid they'll take BMI into account for raising premiums under a government plan. I work out and while I don't eat exceptionally well I don't eat awful either. Why should I be listed as overweight in some government database?

Just Passin' By
07-16-2010, 05:08 PM
So you're telling me 50 years ago Americans only wanted healthy food, and then they just suddenly started wanting unhealthy food?

Bull ****ing shit.

Unhealthy food became more plentiful, easier to get and was promoted more.

50 years ago, your mother was at home cooking and cleaning. Dad was out working. When dad came home, dinner was on the table. This used to be the way it worked for the majority of Americans.

Today, your mother and father (assuming they are together) are both out working. Neither has time to make meals at home, because neither is home.

For the first time since the Census Bureau began keeping records, families in which both parents work have become the majority among married couples with children. Based on data from 1998, both spouses were employed at least part time in 51 percent of married couples with children, compared with 33 percent in 1976. Other findings from the Census Bureau report:

* Even married or single mothers with very young children were likely to work at least part time.
* Fifty-nine percent of women with babies young than a year old were employed in 1998, compared with 31 percent in 1976.
* For older women, the numbers were higher.
* Of the 31.3 million mothers ages 15 to 44 whose children were older than a year, 73 percent worked in 1998 and 52 percent worked full time.

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=9305

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 05:09 PM
http://irishcalvinist.com/files/2006/07/jedi-mind-trick.jpg

You will buy cheese stuffed pizza

You will buy popcorn

You will eat fast food

You will attend the government mandated fat camp

Move along

http://trashfilmguru.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/they-live_2-20080813-125142-medium.jpg

http://disinter.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/1454031646_b1130e4f02_o.jpg

Silock
07-16-2010, 05:10 PM
BMI is wildly off for those of certain body types, as a host of professional athletes can tell you.

I agree, but professional athletes are also in the EXTREME minority. And many bodybuilders that would be classified as obese are also on steroids, which isn't taken into account by BMI for obvious reasons.

Silock
07-16-2010, 05:11 PM
I'm just more afraid they'll take BMI into account for raising premiums under a government plan. I work out and while I don't eat exceptionally well I don't eat awful either. Why should I be listed as overweight in some government database?

I agree, which is why I think if they're going to include it in anything, there should be an exception pending a physical examination by a doctor.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 05:12 PM
50 years ago, your mother was at home cooking and cleaning. Dad was out working. When dad came home, dinner was on the table. This used to be the way it worked for the majority of Americans.

Today, your mother and father (assuming they are together) are both out working. Neither has time to make meals at home, because neither is home.


I'm not arguing that the American lifestyle hasn't changed.

I'm only arguing that the change in the food industry is the reason we're fat.

Maybe the change in the lifestyle prompted the change in the food industry, but the change in the lifestyle isn't to blame. The food industry didn't HAVE to start being a bastion of giant portion sizes and processed crap. We didn't ASK it to become that.

Silock
07-16-2010, 05:14 PM
I'm not arguing that the American lifestyle hasn't changed.

I'm only arguing that the change in the food industry is the reason we're fat.

Maybe the change in the lifestyle prompted the change in the food industry, but the change in the lifestyle isn't to blame. The food industry didn't HAVE to start being a bastion of giant portion sizes and processed crap. We didn't ASK it to become that.

It would be interesting to see obesity statistics in a few years for France. France used to be full of small bistros and corner markets, but have been slowly replaced more and more by McDonald's and large chain markets. I can almost guarantee there will be a corresponding increase in the obesity rate.

Just Passin' By
07-16-2010, 05:15 PM
I agree, but professional athletes are also in the EXTREME minority. And many bodybuilders that would be classified as obese are also on steroids, which isn't taken into account by BMI for obvious reasons.

You don't have to be a professional athlete to have those body types. I was just using the Pros to point out that even those who are quite fit can fall under the "obese" category when BMI is being used.

It's a very poor method of analysis.

Just Passin' By
07-16-2010, 05:16 PM
I'm not arguing that the American lifestyle hasn't changed.

I'm only arguing that the change in the food industry is the reason we're fat.

Maybe the change in the lifestyle prompted the change in the food industry, but the change in the lifestyle isn't to blame. The food industry didn't HAVE to start being a bastion of giant portion sizes and processed crap. We didn't ASK it to become that.

McDonald's existed before the obesity epidemic. Frozen foods existed then, too, as did advertising.

Your argument is lousy because you've flipped cause and effect.

Donger
07-16-2010, 05:17 PM
The food industry didn't HAVE to start being a bastion of giant portion sizes and processed crap. We didn't ASK it to become that.

Of course "we" did, through our purchasing their product. I suppose you could argue that the first crappy fast food joint was a roll of the dice, but no one forced all the people to shoe up and eat their product.

Kyle DeLexus
07-16-2010, 05:17 PM
50 years ago, your mother was at home cooking and cleaning. Dad was out working. When dad came home, dinner was on the table. This used to be the way it worked for the majority of Americans.

Today, your mother and father (assuming they are together) are both out working. Neither has time to make meals at home, because neither is home.



http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=9305

So your saying this whole Women's Rights Movement thing is to blame?

Donger
07-16-2010, 05:18 PM
I'm only arguing that the change in the food industry is the reason we're fat.

Bullshit. It enables people who choose to eat that way get fat.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 05:22 PM
McDonald's existed before the obesity epidemic.

Well shit, America didn't get fat in a year. The Bacon Ultimate Cheeseburger wasn't even around. Progress from normal burgers to disgustingly fattening greaseballs takes time.

As soon as McDonalds became successful, the ball started rolling. And slowly people became fatter and fatter and fatter.....

Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was the fattest country on earth.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 05:24 PM
Bullshit. It enables people who choose to eat that way get fat.

People didn't sit in their houses and grill up three burger patties and six slices of bacon and four slices of cheese and put it on a toasted bun and serve it with 32 ounces of coke and a side of deep-fried potatoes before the fast food industry blew up.

And they DAMN sure didn't do it three times a week. Or worse, every day.

So no, people did not CHOOSE to eat that way. The option was presented to them, and the option was made extremely accessible.

ClevelandBronco
07-16-2010, 05:26 PM
Like I said, I had no desire for popcorn when I sat down in that movie theater. I was thinking about the movie.

Suddenly I wanted popcorn.

What everyone desires most is to satisfy an emotional need. You've come to associate popcorn and other food with emotional satisfaction. They're selling you your own emotional emptiness and the desire to fill that emotional emptiness with popcorn.

Food advertising doesn't work on some of us because we have other lusts that advertising takes advantage of.

Show me popcorn all day long, and I just don't get it.

vailpass
07-16-2010, 05:27 PM
I wonder what my bmi is? Not that it is any business of our government.
I welcome measures such as this, they push us one step closer to realizing the very real threats we as a free people are facing and hopefully will wake us up in time.

Just Passin' By
07-16-2010, 05:28 PM
Well shit, America didn't get fat in a year. The Bacon Ultimate Cheeseburger wasn't even around. Progress from normal burgers to disgustingly fattening greaseballs takes time.

As soon as McDonalds became successful, the ball started rolling. And slowly people became fatter and fatter and fatter.....

Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was the fattest country on earth.

The Bacon Ultimate Cheeseburger wasn't around and people still gained weight. McDonald's has been around for about 70 years, yet the obesity "epidemic" didn't really begin until about 10-15 years ago, and a fair part of the increase is due to the changes in how the classifications are determined. Try to wrap your mind around that.

ChiefsCountry
07-16-2010, 05:29 PM
I wish I could tell all my advertising clients that everyone is like GoChiefs, whatever I say in the ad he wants to go eat it.

Donger
07-16-2010, 05:29 PM
People didn't sit in their houses and grill up three burger patties and six slices of bacon and four slices of cheese and put it on a toasted bun and serve it with 32 ounces of coke and a side of deep-fried potatoes before the fast food industry blew up.

And they DAMN sure didn't do it three times a week. Or worse, every day.

So no, people did not CHOOSE to eat that way. The option was presented to them, and the option was made extremely accessible.

Again, unless they were forced to eat it, they did choose to devour such meals.

Please note that I've no doubt that fast food has quite a bit to do with our obesity problem. But, I also acknowledge that there would be no supply without demand.

Just Passin' By
07-16-2010, 05:30 PM
People didn't sit in their houses and grill up three burger patties and six slices of bacon and four slices of cheese and put it on a toasted bun and serve it with 32 ounces of coke and a side of deep-fried potatoes before the fast food industry blew up.

And they DAMN sure didn't do it three times a week. Or worse, every day.

So no, people did not CHOOSE to eat that way. The option was presented to them, and the option was made extremely accessible.

This may be the stupidest thing posted in the history of the internet.

Donger
07-16-2010, 05:30 PM
I just checked my BMI. I'm fucked.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 05:31 PM
By the way, it's not JUST about fast food. The portion sizes at sit down restaurants are ABSURD.

Donger
07-16-2010, 05:32 PM
By the way, it's not JUST about fast food. The portion sizes at sit down restaurants are ABSURD.

THEN DON'T FUCKING EAT EVERYTHING IN FRONT OF YOU. Or, better yet, don't go out to eat as much.

Rain Man
07-16-2010, 05:39 PM
Gochiefs is making me hungry.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 05:39 PM
I wish I could tell all my advertising clients that everyone is like GoChiefs, whatever I say in the ad he wants to go eat it.

Ed Hardy is entirely built on this concept.

Ed Hardy beer! Its Ed Hardy, so I must have it!

It's like those Krispy Kreme burgers. Probably just about nobody was eating Krispy Kreme burgers until places started advertising and selling them. Nobody was going to Krispy Kreme, buying donuts, taking them home, and putting beef and cheese between them.

Then some sadistic fuck running that minor league team's concessions started doing it and now every fatass in America has to try it and you can buy it all over the place. And of COURSE it's tasty. What's not to like?

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 05:40 PM
THEN DON'T FUCKING EAT EVERYTHING IN FRONT OF YOU. Or, better yet, don't go out to eat as much.

If people did not have the option to eat that much, or if it was harder to find such places, we would not have these problems.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 05:41 PM
Gochiefs is making me hungry.

The ultimate irony of this thread is that I'm fasting.

ClevelandBronco
07-16-2010, 05:41 PM
By the way, it's not JUST about fast food. The portion sizes at sit down restaurants are ABSURD.

You sound like a dry alcoholic complaining that he's helpless because of the number of liquor stores and bars in town.

Donger
07-16-2010, 05:46 PM
If people did not have the option to eat that much, or if it was harder to find such places, we would not have these problems.

Possibly, but I find it stunning that you apparently assign NO blame to the fatties who are shoveling said food down their OWN throats.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 05:47 PM
Possibly, but I find it stunning that you apparently assign NO blame to the fatties who are shoveling said food down their OWN throats.

They're definitely to blame. They have a problem. Just like drug addicts have problems. But if the drug dealers weren't out to make a buck...

Just Passin' By
07-16-2010, 05:48 PM
If people did not have the option to eat that much, or if it was harder to find such places, we would not have these problems.

http://humantestsubjects.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/facepalm.jpg

Good point. If we'd just ration the food, people would have less to eat. But you don't want government controls or anything.

Donger
07-16-2010, 05:50 PM
They're definitely to blame. They have a problem. Just like drug addicts have problems. But if the drug dealers weren't out to make a buck...

But you are overlooking the point that no one is FORCING them to eat out, let alone eat fast food. They COULD just go to the grocery store and get a healthy meal (for less money). They don't.

If eating out and fast food was the only choice, I would be in 100% agreement with you.

It isn't.

ClevelandBronco
07-16-2010, 05:54 PM
They're definitely to blame. They have a problem. Just like drug addicts have problems. But if the drug dealers weren't out to make a buck...

You don't need the government in order to overcome your problems, GoChiefs.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 05:55 PM
I don't want the government to control the food industry. I'd like Quizno's to stop presenting Americans with the option to eat 2,000 calorie subs. (http://www.dietfacts.com/html/nutrition-facts/quiznos-tuna-melt-sub-l52124.htm)

Kyle DeLexus
07-16-2010, 05:55 PM
But you are overlooking the point that no one is FORCING them to eat out, let alone eat fast food. They COULD just go to the grocery store and get a healthy meal (for less money). They don't.

If eating out and fast food was the only choice, I would be in 100% agreement with you.

It isn't.

This and the fact that it's not a secret that fast food and that other crap isn't healthy, yet people still choose to eat it because they are want it. So since it's already not a secret that fast food/shitty food is bad for your health, whose to say the people that fit the profile would choose to take advantage of a government run weightloss program?

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 05:56 PM
But you are overlooking the point that no one is FORCING them to eat out, let alone eat fast food. They COULD just go to the grocery store and get a healthy meal (for less money). They don't.


That's because it's easier for them to run through the drive thru.

Take away the drive thru and you force them to eat healthier.

Guru
07-16-2010, 05:57 PM
Yep, HIPPA doesn't apply to the government I see. What a crock of shit.

Kyle DeLexus
07-16-2010, 05:57 PM
I don't want the government to control the food industry. I'd like Quizno's to stop presenting Americans with the option to eat 2,000 calorie subs. (http://www.dietfacts.com/html/nutrition-facts/quiznos-tuna-melt-sub-l52124.htm)

That won't happen because there are Americans that choose to eat 2000 calorie subs when they know there are other options.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 05:59 PM
That won't happen because there are Americans that choose to eat 2000 calorie subs when they know there are other options.

Yes, but if there was no 2,000 calorie sub on the menu, they would choose something else that was healthier. They would not go to the grocery store and assemble their own 2,000 calorie sub.

Donger
07-16-2010, 05:59 PM
That's because it's easier for them to run through the drive thru.

Take away the drive thru and you force them to eat healthier.

You want to FORCE people to eat healthier?

Just Passin' By
07-16-2010, 06:00 PM
They're definitely to blame. They have a problem. Just like drug addicts have problems. But if the drug dealers weren't out to make a buck...

Absolutely. It's not as if people look to alternative methods of getting highs, or anything. Shit, if people were doing things like abusing legal products, or cans containing legal products to get high or something, your point would be shot to hell. Fortunately, since that's not happening at all, we can blame it all on the drug dealers.

True story. People were never killed before guns were invented, either.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 06:00 PM
You want to FORCE people to eat healthier?

No, I'm just explaining why people are fat.

Because there are drive thrus dispensing absurdly high calorie foods.

If you took away that option, there would be fewer fat people.

Just Passin' By
07-16-2010, 06:01 PM
Yes, but if there was no 2,000 calorie sub on the menu, they would choose something else that was healthier. They would not go to the grocery store and assemble their own 2,000 calorie sub.

Or they could just go crazy and order two 1,000 calorie subs.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 06:02 PM
True story. People were never killed before guns were invented, either.

It's less efficient to get fat on turkey sandwiches than it is a bacon ultimate cheeseburgers.

It's less efficient to kill people with a spear than it is with a gun.

Just Passin' By
07-16-2010, 06:04 PM
It's less efficient to get fat on turkey sandwiches than it is a bacon ultimate cheeseburgers.

So now you want government intervention to tell people which particular animals are acceptable to eat?

It's less efficient to kill people with a spear than it is with a gun.

This is incorrect.

Kyle DeLexus
07-16-2010, 06:04 PM
Yes, but if there was no 2,000 calorie sub on the menu, they would choose something else that was healthier. They would not go to the grocery store and assemble their own 2,000 calorie sub.

So your mad at Subway for having a footlong sandwich option instead of only serving 6" even though people know that the footlong has twice as many calories?

Donger
07-16-2010, 06:05 PM
No, I'm just explaining why people are fat.

Because there are drive thrus dispensing absurdly high calorie foods.

If you took away that option, there would be fewer fat people.

And if there weren't people willing to consume such food, there would be no fast food.

OnTheWarpath58
07-16-2010, 06:05 PM
Unhealthy food became more plentiful, easier to get, IS MUCH CHEAPER than healthy food and was promoted more.

FYP.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 06:05 PM
This is incorrect.

If I stand 50 yards away from you, how many spear chucks do you think I would need to kill you?

I bet I could kill you with a gun a lot quicker.

Donger
07-16-2010, 06:07 PM
GoChiefs, can I presume that you used to consume a lot of fast food and do not now?

If so, what was the impetus?

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 06:07 PM
And if there weren't people willing to consume such food, there would be no fast food.

Take 100 obese americans who love bacon ultimate cheeseburgers.

Now take away the bacon ultimate cheeseburger source.

How many do you think would sit at home and construct their own bacon ultimate cheeseburger?

I'm guessing less than 20.

Donger
07-16-2010, 06:08 PM
FYP.

I don't believe that for a second.

Guru
07-16-2010, 06:08 PM
FYP.

NO shit there!!! I'm changing my eating habits as we speak and it pisses me off how much more I have to spend now. And that is after lowering my portion sizes to eat 6 times per day instead of just 3-4.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 06:09 PM
GoChiefs, can I presume that you used to consume a lot of fast food and do not now?

If so, what was the impetus?

I wanted to have sex.

There's the answer. Obama should implement a healthy living stimulus. Whores for weight loss. Get ACORN involved.

ClevelandBronco
07-16-2010, 06:10 PM
I don't want the government to control the food industry. I'd like Quizno's to stop presenting Americans with the option to eat 2,000 calorie subs. (http://www.dietfacts.com/html/nutrition-facts/quiznos-tuna-melt-sub-l52124.htm)

Quizno's isn't your problem. You are your problem.

Donger
07-16-2010, 06:10 PM
Take 100 obese americans who love bacon ultimate cheeseburgers.

Now take away the bacon ultimate cheeseburger source.

How many do you think would sit at home and construct their own bacon ultimate cheeseburger?

I'm guessing less than 20.

I would guess more than that. Of course, they could create exactly the same thing at home. It would probably taste better, too.

Just Passin' By
07-16-2010, 06:14 PM
If I stand 50 yards away from you, how many spear chucks do you think I would need to kill you?

I bet I could kill you with a gun a lot quicker.

Well, if you can throw a spear accurately, it will take one throw.

But the efficiency of weapon argument is way off topic.

Brock
07-16-2010, 06:16 PM
Looks like former fat people are worse than ex-smokers when it comes to telling other people what they need to do.

Kyle DeLexus
07-16-2010, 06:16 PM
I would guess more than that. Of course, they could create exactly the same thing at home. It would probably taste better, too.

ROFL I like the stackers at Burger King so I started making a version of them at home. I use turkey as a substitute though.

OnTheWarpath58
07-16-2010, 06:18 PM
I don't believe that for a second.

You think that healthy food is less expensive than unhealthy food?

I'd love to hear your reasoning.

Brock
07-16-2010, 06:20 PM
You think that healthy food is less expensive than unhealthy food?

I'd love to hear your reasoning.

Fresh food is more expensive. That doesn't mean you have to spend a lot of money to eat healthy.

Kyle DeLexus
07-16-2010, 06:21 PM
Take 100 obese americans who love bacon ultimate cheeseburgers.

Now take away the bacon ultimate cheeseburger source.

How many do you think would sit at home and construct their own bacon ultimate cheeseburger?

I'm guessing less than 20.

Take 100 obese americans who love bacon ultimate cheeseburgers.

Now tell them how many calories are in it.

How many still order the bacon ultimate cheeseburger?

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 06:22 PM
Take 100 obese americans who love bacon ultimate cheeseburgers.

Now tell them how many calories are in it.

How many still order the bacon ultimate cheeseburger?

The majority.

OnTheWarpath58
07-16-2010, 06:24 PM
Fresh food is more expensive. That doesn't mean you have to spend a lot of money to eat healthy.

If you have access to alternative shopping options like Farmer's Markets, etc - then I would tend to agree.

If a supermarket is your only realistic option - then I completely disagree.

I read a study once for a sociology class where foods that are considered healthy averaged over $18 per 1000 calories, while foods that are considered unhealthy such as cookies, chips, etc cost just under $1.50 per 1000 calories.

I'm in the same position as Guru. My wife and I have started eating healthier and cutting out chips, soda, cookies, etc. Our grocery bill has gone up over 70%.

Donger
07-16-2010, 06:25 PM
You think that healthy food is less expensive than unhealthy food?

I'd love to hear your reasoning.

Let's say a meal at McDonald's (one of those Angus burger combos) costs, what, $7.00?

You don't think that you could make a salad for $7.00?

Brock
07-16-2010, 06:25 PM
The majority.

If you mean "Every single one of them", you're right.

keg in kc
07-16-2010, 06:29 PM
I actually spend a whole lot less when I'm eating well. When I'm on a binge I'll spend 15-20 a day on restaurant food, which comes out to around 500/month. When I'm eating primarily fruits and vegetables I usually spend around 300/month. Fresh stuff does cost more, individually speaking, but I don't buy/consume nearly as much of it when I'm doing things the right way.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 06:31 PM
If you mean "Every single one of them", you're right.

There is a war going on.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-LOVE-THE-BACON-ULTIMATE-CHEESEBURGER-FROM-JACK-IN-THE-BOX/187693159481

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=4837278821

Kyle DeLexus
07-16-2010, 06:31 PM
The majority.

That's the problem, not the fact that it's an option presented to them. As soon as a person makes an informed decision there is no reason to place blame on anyone else.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 06:35 PM
That's the problem, not the fact that it's an option presented to them.

It's the fixable problem. The food industry is not fixable.

I'd like to do a study of two small towns - one with only a few small grocery stores and normal mom and pop restaurants. The other one is full of chain restaurants and giant grocery stores.

Which town would be fatter?

keg in kc
07-16-2010, 06:39 PM
It's the fixable problem. The food industry is not fixable.

I'd like to do a study of two small towns - one with only a few small grocery stores and normal mom and pop restaurants. The other one is full of chain restaurants and giant grocery stores.

Which town would be fatter?Good luck finding small towns without access to giant groceries and chain restaurants. They're everywhere now, even where I grew up in BFE West Virginia, with a population of a thousand.

Although I can also tell you from my experience before the chains arrived that people in rural areas are just as capable of growing morbidly obese eating home cooked food.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 06:40 PM
People for sure. But how many people? And how many kids?

Kyle DeLexus
07-16-2010, 06:42 PM
It's the fixable problem. The food industry is not fixable.

I'd like to do a study of two small towns - one with only a few small grocery stores and normal mom and pop restaurants. The other one is full of chain restaurants and giant grocery stores.

Which town would be fatter?

ROFL I'm from a town of 200 that had one Cafe, there were still plenty of fat people including myself.

Edit: I do agree with you that with more bad options you'll have more people that choose that option, but my whole point is if that person is educated on what and how much they are eating is it still the fault of the place serving it?

keg in kc
07-16-2010, 06:45 PM
People for sure. But how many people? And how many kids?Pretty much everybody was fat where I grew up, kids included (although I actually wasn't) and this was 30 years ago, long before Wal-Mart and Applebee's arrived. Tons of butter and cooking everything in lard will do that. Not to mention soda and kool-ade for the kids and beer for the adults.

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 06:46 PM
Pretty much everybody was fat where I grew up, kids included (although I actually wasn't) and this was 30 years ago, long before Wal-Mart and Applebee's arrived. Tons of butter and cooking everything in lard will do that. Not to mention soda and kool-ade for the kids and beer for the adults.

No McDonalds?

Count Alex's Losses
07-16-2010, 06:48 PM
my whole point is if that person is educated on what and how much they are eating is it still the fault of the place serving it?

I'm not arguing that its anyone's fault but their own, I'm just exploring the reason why America is fat.

I think it has more to do with industry than individual.

keg in kc
07-16-2010, 06:48 PM
No McDonalds?Not back then, no. They have them now.