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View Full Version : Money Kansas City's 1% employment/income tax


Ralphy Boy
07-25-2010, 04:40 PM
What's your stance on it? Frankly I can see the need for it since so many people live outside of KC proper yet, work in the city and I can see a lot more metro areas going to a similar tax down the road.

Living in Springfield, where they do have some budget problems, I know they are looking for ways to make up some ground.

Springfield is in Greene county and a significant amount of people live in bedroom communities, located in Christian & Webster counties, yet work in Springfield.

Christian County (Ozark & Nixa) was the fastest growing county in Missouri from 2000 - 2008, yet I would guess 75% of the working class from there works in Springfield. They spend their tax dollars in Springfield when they are here, but their personal property is taxed depending on the county/city they live in, and rightfully so, but those vehicles are regularly driven on Springfield roads that need regular improvement/maintenance and they are currently looking at making a lot of road improvements to make it easier on people, living there to come to work and Springfield residents will likely shoulder the bill. Meanwhile those communities are able to spend a ton on their schools and other things because of their growing tax base and still brag about their better tax rates and schools.

FYI: In the 2000 Census there were 151,580 people in Springfield with 64,691 households but the MSA is around 430,000.

They could annex in people that live outside the city limits, yet still have a Springfield address, but I don't know what impact that would make. It seems to me that the people who benefit from Springfield should shoulder some of the cost. There is little doubt that the people living and moving to those communities would be doing so if not for Springfield or any other city with a similar problem.

I'm not saying it has to be a 1% tax rate and I'm not an expert on the matter. I don't know whether they should give an incentive to residents of the city or not.

BWillie
07-25-2010, 04:42 PM
Private investment almost always trumps government investment. So I'm against taxes except those that cover the infrastructure of the city, county, and country.

Ralphy Boy
07-25-2010, 05:02 PM
Private investment almost always trumps government investment. So I'm against taxes except those that cover the infrastructure of the city, county, and country.

I'm speaking largely about infrastructure in the sense that a greater portion of a larger cities budget would (I'm guessing) be allocated toward roadway improvements than in smaller communities where the bulk of traffic is on highways. Even in the communities I mentioned, the roadway improvements they have made are realitively small.

Also, "private investment" will be very hard to come by for several years to come unless the entire landscape of the banking environment changes.

I'm not in the camp of those that believe our economy is going to turn around anytime soon.

The largest employers here are St Johns 6,841, Cox Hospital 6,355, Wal Mart 3,927, Springfield Public Schools 3,154, MSU 3,065, US Govt 2,800 & State Employees 2,346. You have to get pretty far down the list to find private investment so its not like those companies are going to uproot.

CrazyPhuD
07-25-2010, 05:35 PM
Open up shop in KCK that's what I would do, simple and efficient.

pr_capone
07-25-2010, 05:55 PM
Personally I think we pay more than enough taxes as is. I'd rather force local government to be more fiscally conservative rather than dip into my wallet to cover their shortfalls.

alnorth
07-25-2010, 06:01 PM
If its infrastructure, schools, and roads that are the problem, isn't that sort of what the state and feds are for? I understand the problem of suburbs having enormous tax bases of people that live in the suburbs and take advantage of city services without paying the city much, but I'd think that sort of thing would be addressed at a higher level than city government.

BigRedChief
07-25-2010, 06:07 PM
I paid that damn tax for years. Isn't taxation without representation illrgal?

Saul Good
07-25-2010, 06:49 PM
Move the business outside of KC. Simple enough. Nothing like punishing employers and employees who work in your city.

Ralphy Boy
07-25-2010, 11:39 PM
I paid that damn tax for years. Isn't taxation without representation illrgal?

If you work in one state but live in another you pay income tax in that state, but since you aren't a resident you really don't have the right to say what goes on there.

Move the business outside of KC. Simple enough. Nothing like punishing employers and employees who work in your city.

Some do, I'm sure when Sprint was building their HQ, many people in KCMO would have loved to have had them there but the reality is most of those small communities don't have the infrastructure to support large employers. I can think of a handful of smaller manufacturers who operate outside of this area and I applaud them for providing jobs in smaller communities.

A great number of the people that enjoy the benefit of living close by a larger city do little to support it. The more retail and service companies that open in those smaller areas the less they come into Springfield to spend their discretionary income. Its a bit of a catch 22. They are taking the wages that most of them earn in Springfield and spending the money in their own town. They will still come here for a lot of their shopping but with Walmart, Lowes and a host of other stores and restaurants opening down there, the bulk of the dollars are leaving the city.

The higher paying jobs down here are in Springfield so I'm not worried about the lost dollars of lower and minimum wage types that work at Wal Mart, other retailers or restaurants.

According to Sperlings Best Places to Live:
Nixa MO has 18,856 people with a cost of living at 13.6% lower than the national average. Their spending per student is $4,030 and the median household income is $46,891. The sales tax rate there is 7.23%

Ozark has 14,742 people with a cost of living at 12.9% below the national average. Spending per student is $3,678 and the median household income is $40,485. Sales tax rate 7.73%

Springfield has 155,036 people with a cost of living at 20.10% below the national average. Spending per student is $4,191 and the median household income is $34,209. Sales tax rate 6.85%

As I alluded to earlier, annexation would push those numbers up since most of the more affluent people live just outside the city limits, but to what degree I don't know.

We have a lower cost of living by around 7%, we spend more on our students than either city to the south of us yet because the much larger lower class population in Springfield and cheaper ground outside of Springfield, we can't keep up.

We could raise our sales tax rates, but that would push up our cost of living. If it were up to me, I'd tax non-resident workers at around 1/2% of their gross annual income and leave residents alone.

The Springfield Metro GMP was $14.3 billion in 2009. Say 65% of that ($9.29 billion) was inside the city limits. Now say that...pulling a number out of my ass... 20% of that ($1.85 billion) was paid in wages. 1/2% of $1.85 billion = $9,200,000.

I want to say that the budget shortfall was around $13,000,000.

It would be like a cover charge. They are coming into our city and using our streets and facilities. Because our cost of living is so low they likely wouldn't be afforded the same advantages if they lived elsewhere and frankly if you make $65,000 and had to pay $325 a year to work here, you wouldn't think twice about moving.

Mr. Flopnuts
07-25-2010, 11:46 PM
Heh, interesting this is all coming up in a thread. Cost of living vs. wages in Springfield, MO is a conversation my wife and I just had a couple of weeks ago. See you all soon. :)

wazu
07-25-2010, 11:56 PM
Move the business outside of KC. Simple enough. Nothing like punishing employers and employees who work in your city.

That's pretty much what most people do. It's been a steady drain on KC for decades. Other big cities do just fine without any similar tax, there is no reason for us to have it.

ClevelandBronco
07-26-2010, 12:25 AM
I paid that damn tax for years. Isn't taxation without representation illrgal?

No, it's not illegal and they ought to point out that hypocrisy when they're teaching our kids about the events that led to our revolution.

Valiant
07-26-2010, 12:31 AM
City just needs to get better at spending money.. And fine any city employee wasting tax dollars..

Coach
07-26-2010, 06:02 AM
City just needs to get better at spending money.. And fine any city employee wasting tax dollars..

Starting with the Mayor and some of the council people.

InChiefsHell
07-26-2010, 06:37 AM
The city of Omaha never found a tax it didn't like, and the current mayor's administration is piling it on. They bitch about not being able to tax people outside the city who work in and use Omaha's roads...I say, that's the price you pay for being a big city (so to speak). Those people work in your town and use your roads, but they also buy stuff in your city like food and gas and what have you. In Omaha's case, they just spend too much money on other bullshit. They need to cut spending, but that's the political hot potato...

BigChiefFan
07-26-2010, 09:38 AM
No more taxes. If everybody got on the same page and told these thieves to get bent, this shit would stop in an instant.

InChiefsHell
07-26-2010, 10:21 AM
No more taxes. If everybody got on the same page and told these thieves to get bent, this shit would stop in an instant.

Oh, everyone wants lower taxes...problem is they also want all their neat-o little services and stuff, so nobody wants their shit cut. It's going to take and honest politician (oxymoron) to be straight up with the people...

gblowfish
07-26-2010, 10:24 AM
E-Tax has been around for ever. Hence the rise of Johnson County, KS.
If you live in KCMO, or if you work in KCMO, you pay.

If you live in KCMO all you really get in return is trash service. If you work only, you don't get squat.

Best combo is to live and work outside KCMO. If you do, you give yourself a 1% raise automatically.

Ralphy Boy
07-26-2010, 10:55 AM
The city of Omaha never found a tax it didn't like, and the current mayor's administration is piling it on. They bitch about not being able to tax people outside the city who work in and use Omaha's roads...I say, that's the price you pay for being a big city (so to speak). Those people work in your town and use your roads, but they also buy stuff in your city like food and gas and what have you. In Omaha's case, they just spend too much money on other bullshit. They need to cut spending, but that's the political hot potato...

Omaha is a pretty nice city. Those riverfront improvements are very nice and I'm curious if those were funded by private investment or tax dollars. How about the stadium & arena?

I've yet to hear anyone really address the 1/2% tax I'm suggesting for non residents working in a metro city.

1/2% on a $100,000 salary is $500 a year or $20.83 per bi-monthly pay check.
1/2% on a $20,000 salary is $100 a year, $4.17 per bi-monthly pay check.

Some cities have toll roads or parking fees, but most here don't so I think its easier to swallow.

InChiefsHell
07-26-2010, 11:06 AM
Omaha is a pretty nice city. Those riverfront improvements are very nice and I'm curious if those were funded by private investment or tax dollars. How about the stadium & arena?

I've yet to hear anyone really address the 1/2% tax I'm suggesting for non residents working in a metro city.

1/2% on a $100,000 salary is $500 a year or $20.83 per bi-monthly pay check.
1/2% on a $20,000 salary is $100 a year, $4.17 per bi-monthly pay check.

Some cities have toll roads or parking fees, but most here don't so I think its easier to swallow.

Omaha is a nice city, but there are some serious morons running it. The riverfront project was a lot of Federal funding...like the walking bridge over the Missouri river into Council Bluffs IA. It's called the Bob Kerry bridge...guess who secured those funds for it.

The Qwest Arena was a joint thing with the city and Qwest, and the new stadium is likewise with TD Ameritrade. Problem is, the city (us) put up the most money. Is it worth it? The Qwest Center is a yes. No idea about the downtown ball park, but considering its only tenants are the CWS for two weeks out of the summer and now the UFL Omaha Nighthawks football team, I'd say it'll be quite some time before we see our money's worth.

But, I live in Papillion, so it doesn't really matter to me.:evil:

BigRedChief
07-26-2010, 06:48 PM
If you work in one state but live in another you pay income tax in that state, but since you aren't a resident you really don't have the right to say what goes on there..I was a resident of Missouri during every job. I just never lived in the city of KC. But, paid city of KC taxes but had no voice in KC policy. So when they wanted to spend $425K for Olymic sized pools to attract suburban kids I was a little miffed but I had no voice.