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'Hamas' Jenkins
07-25-2010, 05:30 PM
They got Dan Haren for Joe Saunders, two piece of shit minor leaguers, and a PTBNL

thurman merman
07-25-2010, 05:41 PM
They got Dan Haren for Joe Saunders, two piece of shit minor leaguers, and a PTBNL

And they got Alberto Callaspo for a piece of shit with a massive goatee.

Count Zarth
07-25-2010, 05:44 PM
He's no Cliff Lee.

Shit, he's given up 23 HR this year. He's having a pretty "meh" year.

SnakeXJones
07-25-2010, 05:49 PM
I dont see how this trade is rape

Short Leash Hootie
07-25-2010, 05:50 PM
I dont see how this trade is rape

Haren is a borderline #1, legit #2...and Saunders is a one year wonder who fits in as a decent #4 starter.

Haren is also reasonably cheap and he's only 29...

It's a steal of a deal, that's for sure.

Saul Good
07-25-2010, 05:50 PM
I dont see how this trade is rape

Is there any truth to the rumor that the PTBNL is going to be Vernon Ghoulston?

kstater
07-25-2010, 05:52 PM
Isn't he a free agent after the year?

thurman merman
07-25-2010, 05:53 PM
He's no Cliff Lee.

Shit, he's given up 23 HR this year. He's having a pretty "meh" year.

Haren is having a pretty bad year by his standards, but he's had an outstanding career.

Buck
07-25-2010, 05:56 PM
People said the same thing about the Padres last year in the Peavy trade.

The minor leaguers they got arent pieces of shit either. Also the PTBNL is going to be a top prospect, they have a list of players they can choose from, and only the Angels #1 overall prospect is protected.

Not to mention they just saved like $40 million. Whats the point of paying a guy that much when you aren't going to contend?

Saul Good
07-25-2010, 06:03 PM
People said the same thing about the Padres last year in the Peavy trade.

The minor leaguers they got arent pieces of shit either. Also the PTBNL is going to be a top prospect, they have a list of players they can choose from, and only the Angels #1 overall prospect is protected.

Not to mention they just saved like $40 million. Whats the point of paying a guy that much when you aren't going to contend?

That sounds like a pretty fair deal. I don't know what the Angels' system is like, but I don't know that I would give up the Royals' number 2 prospect plus 2 other prospects for him.

SnakeXJones
07-25-2010, 06:12 PM
People said the same thing about the Padres last year in the Peavy trade.

The minor leaguers they got arent pieces of shit either. Also the PTBNL is going to be a top prospect, they have a list of players they can choose from, and only the Angels #1 overall prospect is protected.

Not to mention they just saved like $40 million. Whats the point of paying a guy that much when you aren't going to contend? Exactly thats what I thought when I saw this trade

Sweet Daddy Hate
07-25-2010, 06:22 PM
Did anyone actually expect anything from the D-Backs?

RJ
07-25-2010, 07:02 PM
He's no Cliff Lee.

Shit, he's given up 23 HR this year. He's having a pretty "meh" year.


Long term I'd rather have Haren. Prejudice on my part probably, but I think he'll be a better investment.

Yeah, Hamas is right, total ass rape. I had to read it twice just to believe it was real. That was the best the D-Backs could do? WTF? I seem to recall them giving up a lot more when they got him from Oakland, and my understanding is that Haren's current contract is fairly reasonably by today's standards.

BWillie
07-25-2010, 07:04 PM
And to think Buster Onley was almost 100% convinced he was goin' to the Yanks

Count Zarth
07-25-2010, 07:05 PM
The Rangers won't have Lee next year anyway. I don't know what the Angels budget is but Haren is pretty expensive.

Either way the Angels are desperate to make up their 6-game deficit in the West. I don't think trading for a 4.60 starter is gonna be the ticket.

Brainiac
07-25-2010, 07:16 PM
And to think Buster Onley was almost 100% convinced he was goin' to the Yanks

I think it's kind of nice that the Yanks didn't get him.

Saul Good
07-25-2010, 07:20 PM
Long term I'd rather have Haren. Prejudice on my part probably, but I think he'll be a better investment.

Yeah, Hamas is right, total ass rape. I had to read it twice just to believe it was real. That was the best the D-Backs could do? WTF? I seem to recall them giving up a lot more when they got him from Oakland, and my understanding is that Haren's current contract is fairly reasonably by today's standards.

Giving up your second best prospect plus two others for a rent-a-player with an ERA over 4.5 is raping the other team? Would you trade Moustakis plus two other prospects for him?

The Bad Guy
07-25-2010, 07:38 PM
The Rangers won't have Lee next year anyway. I don't know what the Angels budget is but Haren is pretty expensive.

Either way the Angels are desperate to make up their 6-game deficit in the West. I don't think trading for a 4.60 starter is gonna be the ticket.

You honestly don't know shit about baseball.

Haren is a great arm. Had a rough year, but it doesn't diminish his impact over his career.

The Bad Guy
07-25-2010, 07:39 PM
Giving up your second best prospect plus two others for a rent-a-player with an ERA over 4.5 is raping the other team? Would you trade Moustakis plus two other prospects for him?

Rent a player?

Haren is under control until 2013.

Count Zarth
07-25-2010, 07:40 PM
You honestly don't know shit about baseball.

Haren is a great arm. Had a rough year, but it doesn't diminish his impact over his career.

I don't care what he's done over his career.

He's nothing special this year.

RJ
07-25-2010, 08:10 PM
Giving up your second best prospect plus two others for a rent-a-player with an ERA over 4.5 is raping the other team? Would you trade Moustakis plus two other prospects for him?


He's not a rent-a player and I believe he leads the NL in K's right now. As to the ERA, that's unusually high for hm.

Haren is a damn fine pitcher.

Count Zarth
07-25-2010, 08:13 PM
BTW, I would pay good money for an mspaint of an angel raping a snake.

RJ
07-25-2010, 08:14 PM
I don't care what he's done over his career.

He's nothing special this year.


Yes he is. Look at the K ratio. That's a very special talent.

JASONSAUTO
07-25-2010, 08:15 PM
so now a player with three years left under control thats 29 is a rent a player?
Posted via Mobile Device

Count Zarth
07-25-2010, 08:20 PM
Yes he is. Look at the K ratio. That's a very special talent.

Is giving up a shitload of dingers a special talent? Because that's what he does.

Ebolapox
07-25-2010, 08:22 PM
BTW, I would pay good money for an mspaint of an angel raping a snake.

can the picture have michael jordan keeping the snake straight for insertion?

Mecca
07-25-2010, 08:25 PM
I thought that said a put it in her butt later, that might have made the deal better.

Ebolapox
07-25-2010, 08:25 PM
I thought that said a put it in her butt later, that might have made the deal better.

later? fugg it, I'm lubing that shit up right now.

thurman merman
07-25-2010, 08:26 PM
Is giving up a shitload of dingers a special talent? Because that's what he does.

ROFL

Count Zarth
07-25-2010, 08:26 PM
can the picture have michael jordan keeping the snake straight for insertion?

I don't want to infringe on your artistic creativity.

Ebolapox
07-25-2010, 08:28 PM
I don't want to infringe on your artistic creativity.

how much cash we talkin? cause my agent has told me to stop working for free.

milkman
07-25-2010, 08:33 PM
Is giving up a shitload of dingers a special talent? Because that's what he does.

Some great pitchers have given up a shit ton of home runs.

Nolan Ryan had about 7 or 8 seasons in which he gave up 18 HRs or more.

RippedmyFlesh
07-25-2010, 08:38 PM
Some great pitchers have given up a shit ton of home runs.

Nolan Ryan had about 7 or 8 seasons in which he gave up 18 HRs or more.
The great ones would give up a lot of solo shots instead of base clearing doubles.
A blast from the past fergie jenkins was the postor boy for that.

Count Zarth
07-25-2010, 08:38 PM
Some great pitchers have given up a shit ton of home runs.

Nolan Ryan had about 7 or 8 seasons in which he gave up 18 HRs or more.

Did Nolan Ryan ever rank 2nd in the league in HRs allowed? I bet not. In fact, he never gave up more than 20 HR in a season. Haren has given up 23 already.

Ebolapox
07-25-2010, 08:38 PM
nolan ryan also had a shit-ton of walks. most of the time, strike-out or walk.

great pitcher though.

Count Zarth
07-25-2010, 08:39 PM
how much cash we talkin? cause my agent has told me to stop working for free.

All my casino cash.

milkman
07-25-2010, 08:56 PM
Did Nolan Ryan ever rank 2nd in the league in HRs allowed? I bet not. In fact, he never gave up more than 20 HR in a season. Haren has given up 23 already.

The point is, dumbass, HRs aren't necessarily a measure of a pitcher.

Count Zarth
07-25-2010, 09:01 PM
The point is, dumbass, HRs aren't necessarily a measure of a pitcher.

Bullshit, show me a pitcher who ranks near the bottom of the league in HRs allowed and is actually highly regarded.

Haren's having a shitty year.

RJ
07-25-2010, 09:01 PM
Is giving up a shitload of dingers a special talent? Because that's what he does.


That will even out. You should read some about sabermetrics, you'd probably like it.

milkman
07-25-2010, 09:10 PM
Bullshit, show me a pitcher who ranks near the bottom of the league in HRs allowed and is actually highly regarded.

Haren's having a shitty year.

Ferguson Jenkins, who was mentioned earlier, led the league in HRs allowed 7 times, including a season in which he won the Cy Young Award.

shakesthecat
07-25-2010, 09:22 PM
Ferguson Jenkins, who was mentioned earlier, led the league in HRs allowed 7 times, including a season in which he won the Cy Young Award.

Yeah, but he only won 20 games 6 years in a row.

Count Zarth
07-25-2010, 09:27 PM
Ferguson Jenkins, who was mentioned earlier, led the league in HRs allowed 7 times, including a season in which he won the Cy Young Award.

And when did he ever have a 4.60 ERA?

ANSWER: NEVER.

The Bad Guy
07-25-2010, 09:27 PM
Bullshit, show me a pitcher who ranks near the bottom of the league in HRs allowed and is actually highly regarded.

Haren's having a shitty year.

Johan Santana ranks near the bottom of the league in HRs allowed.

Stop trying to talk about baseball like you have a fucking clue.

The Bad Guy
07-25-2010, 09:28 PM
And when did he ever have a 4.60 ERA?

ANSWER: NEVER.

Since you didn't get the answer you wanted, you decided to change the question.

Count Zarth
07-25-2010, 09:28 PM
Johan Santana ranks near the bottom of the league in HRs allowed.

How do you figure? He has only allowed 8 this year.

milkman
07-25-2010, 09:35 PM
And when did he ever have a 4.60 ERA?

ANSWER: NEVER.

No one was talking about ERA.

You kept talking about HRs allowed and I told that HRs allowed are not the measure of a picture.

I proved it.

Now just shut the fuck up and admit that you were a dumbass that didn't know what the hell you were talking about.

Count Zarth
07-25-2010, 09:37 PM
No one was talking about ERA.

You kept talking about HRs allowed and I told that HRs allowed are not the measure of a picture.

I proved it.

Now just shut the fuck up and admit that you were a dumbass that didn't know what the hell you were talking about.

I was talking about ERA before you even came into the thread.

Bottom line is any way you slice it he's having a shitty year.

milkman
07-25-2010, 09:44 PM
I was talking about ERA before you even came into the thread.

Bottom line is any way you slice it he's having a shitty year.

Let me be clear here, so your useless dumb ass can understand.

When I said "No one" I was specifically talking about me, because I addressed your HRs allowed posts.

I don't give a rat's ass about Haren.
I don't give a rat's ass about ERA.

I am arguing the point that HRs allowed are not the measure of a pitcher, and that is the only thing I am arguing.

Count Zarth
07-25-2010, 09:45 PM
Let me be clear here, so your useless dumb ass can understand.

When I said "No one" I was specifically talking about me, because I addressed your HRs allowed posts.

I don't give a rat's ass about Haren.
I don't give a rat's ass about ERA.

I am arguing the point that HRs allowed are not the measure of a pitcher, and that is the only thing I am arguing.

You're pretty irrelevant to the thread then.

milkman
07-25-2010, 09:49 PM
You're pretty irrelevant to the thread then.

Relevance is relative.

You are wrong, so you're irrelevant.

I am right, so I am relevant.

duncan_idaho
07-25-2010, 09:53 PM
Haren is having one of the unluckiest years I've seen... and his BABIP backs that up.

It's an unbelievably high .341 (about .80 higher than his career average and .60 higher than league average).

That's likely to come down, despite his typical second half swoons.

Anyway, I think Cards fans have a little extra soft spot for Haren, but that's just me... as for what the Angels gave up: Saunders is a solid big-league pitcher (and at least the ROyals won't have to face him any more). Corbin is an OK prospect, and Skaggs was a first rounder last year.

I wouldn't be thrilled about the trade if I were the Dbacks, but the only guys in the Angels' system to be thrilled about are Bourjos and Trout, and neither of them is touchable...

Count Zarth
07-25-2010, 09:53 PM
Relevance is relative.

You are wrong, so you're irrelevant.

I am right, so I am relevant.

You should really shut the fuck up. Just because one or two pitchers have had success giving up a shitload of dingers doesn't make Haren worth a shit this year. Go look at the top 10 or 15 list of pitchers who have allowed the most home runs this year. A lot of shit.

blaise
07-25-2010, 09:54 PM
I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but I think Haren had a partial no trade clause, so that may have limited the number of teams that could have made it work.

milkman
07-25-2010, 10:01 PM
You should really shut the **** up. Just because one or two pitchers have had success giving up a shitload of dingers doesn't make Haren worth a shit this year. Go look at the top 10 or 15 list of pitchers who have allowed the most home runs this year. A lot of shit.

One or two pitchers?

I've seen great pitchers give up a shit ton of home runs through the years of watching baseball.

Robin Roberts was considered among the best of his day, and he was the record holder for most allowed.

The fact is, you are simply too much of a pussy to admit that you were wrong.

Count Zarth
07-25-2010, 10:03 PM
One or two pitchers?

I've seen great pitchers give up a shit ton of home runs through the years of watching baseball.

Robin Roberts was considered among the best of his day, and he was the record holder for most allowed.

The fact is, you are simply too much of a pussy to admit that you were wrong.

I can fully admit that I was wrong.

I'm not wrong about Haren though. The massive amount of homers he has given up this year is a sign he's having a shitty year.

milkman
07-25-2010, 10:05 PM
I can fully admit that I was wrong.

I'm not wrong about Haren though. The massive amount of homers he has given up this year is a sign he's having a shitty year.

And once again.

I am not arguing about Haren.

I am arguing that HRs allowed are not a barometer of a pitcher's success.

DJ's left nut
07-25-2010, 10:45 PM
Somewhere Ed Wade (Astros GM) is busy kicking puppies.

The ace he has on the market is older, more expensive and not as good as a guy that just got traded for a 4th starter and a long-term project.

He'll be getting a hell of a lot less than the 3 young starters he was looking for.

blaise
07-25-2010, 10:53 PM
Somewhere Ed Wade (Astros GM) is busy kicking puppies.

The ace he has on the market is older, more expensive and not as good as a guy that just got traded for a 4th starter and a long-term project.

He'll be getting a hell of a lot less than the 3 young starters he was looking for.

I would guess Drayton McLane should get a lot of the blame in that. Not that I know him, but I would wager he made Wade wait longer than Wade wanted to put him out there, and I wouldn't be surprised of McLane even vetod some deals. And also Roy-O. From what I've read the list of teams he'll accept a trade to is fairly small.
And I would say Haren is better long term, but if I was just looking at it for a playoff run this year I'd rather have Oswalt. I just think he's a gamer and I think he's a good guy to have around for a playoff run.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-25-2010, 11:33 PM
Haren's having a down year because he's been extraordinarily unlucky. His BABIP is 70 points higher than it was last year. 70.

His FB ratio is up a little, but not to the point that would suggest a 70 point jump in BABIP.

The guy racks up Ks and he lead the NL in WHIP last year. He's also a multiple time All-Star, and a former All-Star starter. He walks less than two batters per nine innings.

He's one of the top 10-15 pitchers in baseball, with an incredibly friendly contract, and he just got given away for a bunch of shitty players and a PTBNL.

Unless the PTBNL is Kendry Morales, this is anal rape.


And the Angels' farm system has been overrated for years. Brandon Wood, Aybar, Kendrick, that fat fuck who hit all those HRs for them in AAA but could never make the big leagues. The list goes on.

duncan_idaho
07-25-2010, 11:35 PM
Haren's having a down year because he's been extraordinarily unlucky. His BABIP is 70 points higher than it was last year. 70.

His FB ratio is up a little, but not to the point that would suggest a 70 point jump in BABIP.

The guy racks up Ks and he lead the NL in WHIP last year. He's also a multiple time All-Star, and a former All-Star starter. He walks less than two batters per nine innings.

He's one of the top 10-15 pitchers in baseball, with an incredibly friendly contract, and he just got given away for a bunch of shitty players and a PTBNL.

Unless the PTBNL is Kendry Morales, this is anal rape.


And the Angels' farm system has been overrated for years. Brandon Wood, Aybar, Kendrick, that fat **** who hit all those HRs for them in AAA but could never make the big leagues. The list goes on.

I read that Tyler Skaggs is the guy they're getting. 2009 sandwich pick.

Angels' pitching prospects are tough to get a read on... the Angels have too many hitter-friendly ballparks in their system to take a normal read of their numbers...

Count Zarth
07-25-2010, 11:38 PM
He's one of the top 10-15 pitchers in baseball, with an incredibly friendly contract, and he just got given away for a bunch of shitty players and a PTBNL.


I bet Vlad The Impaler, Josh Hamilton and Nelson Cruz all take him yard by the end of the year.

He gives up a shitload of dingers.

Buck
07-25-2010, 11:54 PM
I agree that Haren is 1. Having an unlucky year with his BABIP, but that stat isn't solely based on luck. You leave balls out on the middle of the plate, your BABIP is going to be higher and 2. That being on the D'backs is affecting his record, BUT....

He is one of the most over-valued pitchers out there.

He's never had a sub-3 ERA in one season. His best records in order are 16-8, 15-9, 14-10, 14-12, 14-13.

Compare everything he has done to Jake Peavy, who the Padres traded to the White Sox for similar players. Jake Peavy has much better numbers.

The best thing about Haren is that over the last 3 years he's been in the top 3 in K's, but this year he is giving up 1.5 HR/9 innings. That is really high and I don't think that has much to do with luck.

All of that ^^^^ was just to say that the D'backs didn't get raped. If you think they did, you are wrong. These kind of trades happen all the time. A player who costs way too much for a team that is going nowhere, and you get prospects in return.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-26-2010, 01:23 AM
Dan Haren is making the same amount of money as Kyle Lohse.

If he was leaving balls out over the middle of the plate, his LD% would be way up, as would his walks, because that's a command issue.

His LD% is the same to the 1/10 of a percentage point, but he is walking about 1/3 of a batter more per 9 innings, and that is still below his career norms.

He's just been unlucky.

And GC, unless you have a baseball package, I doubt you've ever seen him pitch. He misses a ton of bats and he has great command.

Oh, and Wins and Losses is the absolute worst way to ever judge a pitcher. Burnett and Vazquez are a combined 16-15 this year. If they were pitching for the D-Bags, they'd be 6-25.

Consistent1
07-26-2010, 02:13 AM
lmao...I was just looking at Haren's stats as a hitter this year. .364 avg 20-55, .902 ops., 6 doubles and a HR.Pretty decent at the plate all of the last few years. Now, he goes back to the AL.

RJ
07-26-2010, 10:21 AM
It turns out that the D-Backs GM is the same person who priced the Taylor Made irons at $112 on Amazon. Look for LAA to get an email informing them that a mistake was made and their order has been cancelled.

Sanka
07-26-2010, 11:56 AM
I think it's kind of nice that the Yanks didn't get him.

It's nice, until they pull Oswalt out of their asses.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-26-2010, 12:19 PM
PTBNL is Tyler Skaggs.

Glad I'm not a D-backs fan.

Sweet Daddy Hate
07-26-2010, 12:24 PM
PTBNL is Tyler Skaggs.

Glad I'm not a D-backs fan.

Who the fuck with half a brain is?

Ebolapox
07-26-2010, 01:45 PM
All my casino cash.

lemme see what I can do.

Frazod
07-26-2010, 03:09 PM
lmao...I was just looking at Haren's stats as a hitter this year. .364 avg 20-55, .902 ops., 6 doubles and a HR.Pretty decent at the plate all of the last few years. Now, he goes back to the AL.

What a waste of his talents sending him to the AL. I realize those numbers would come down if he was an everyday hitter, but still, he's probably better at the plate than 2/3rds of the position players out there.

And it still pisses me off when I think about how much better the Cardinals would be if he was still with us.

Damn you Jocketty.

Damn you Mulder.

:#

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-26-2010, 04:25 PM
We probably would have had a much better chance to beat the Astros in either Games 2 or 6 at Busch had Haren been pitching instead of that 2-bit cocksucker Mulder.

Even then, we still would have had to win Game 7, although it would have been against that choking fucking cunt Roger Clemens.

Fruit Ninja
07-26-2010, 11:31 PM
lol, dude got hurt in his first start with a new team. Line drive to the forearm.