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LaChapelle
08-03-2010, 10:51 PM
McCluster gets plenty of work
By Sam Robinson www.sjnp.com

Tuesday, August 3, 2010 at 10:03 p.m.


Players erupted after each juke, and fans roared after the whistle blew.

Dexter McCluster is easily the Chiefs’ yards-after-catch leader in their first five days of training camp, and he added 35 more in perhaps his finest talent display on Wednesday after the 5-foot-8, 170-pound rookie left a trail of linebackers in his path.

Demorrio Williams, Kansas City’s 2009 tackles leader, had good position to snuff out the screen pass near the left sideline but couldn’t contain him. Then McCluster shook Jovan Belcher and darted across the field. The all-purpose McCluster finished his jaunt in the right corner of the end zone, capping his take-notice camp’s most breathtaking catch and run.

The second-round pick out of Ole Miss sometimes doesn’t realize the effectiveness of the moves he makes and needs replay to appreciate them.

“It’s slower to me, actually. A lot of people look at me and say, ‘Man, you’re moving.’ I’m like, ‘I could’ve been a little faster,’” McCluster said. “It feels a little different when you’re doing it, but once you sit down and watch film, you think, ‘Man, that was really nice.’”

It’s not necessarily the moves that make McCluster unique in his first official week in the NFL. It’s the number of repetitions he receives and the numerous places he gets them.

He’s listed on the roster at wide receiver, but moonlights at tailback, kick returner and punt returner, and he even lined up at quarterback some in a wildcat-style formation.

“He’s just learning, moving around a little bit trying to find his niche in this offense,” said starting wideout Chris Chambers. “Hopefully he’s going to play big for us this year.”

Due to boasting a rare amount of responsibility for a first-week player, McCluster can’t limit himself to concentrating on a few key facets like most single-position rookies can. His checklist is far more extensive.

“If I’m at the running back (spot), I have to make sure I know who to block,” McCluster said. “I want to make sure I hit the hole right. Wide receiver, I want to make sure I catch the ball and look it in.

“Whatever it may be, I’m ready for the challenge.”

Veteran running back Thomas Jones continues to garner most of the first-team carries in the opening week, but McCluster does not often run with the second unit. He takes handoffs with Matt Cassel’s group and lines up in the slot in nearly every passing-down package. On Tuesday he and running back Jamaal Charles, who amassed 1,120 yards and a 5.9 yards-per-carry average last season, lined up together in a split shotgun formation alongside Cassel, a look that would provide the Chiefs one of the most elusive backfields. :whackit:

McCluster said Charles is helping him with the nuances of NFL open-field running.

“I learned (to) be patient and wait on your blockers,” he said. “You don’t have to run too fast. He tells me to ‘slow down every now and then, make sure you set up the block, then hit it. You’re quick enough to do it.’ I’m trying to take those key elements and put it into my game. Working together with the both of us being very talented runners, we can make plays.”

At Ole Miss, McCluster rushed for 1,169 yards as a senior and caught 44 passes in each of the last two years. Ole Miss coach Houston Nutt didn’t use McCluster in returns in those two standout seasons, but he’s been the first to await kickoffs and punts in nearly every drill at camp.

Should 170-pound players advance as far as the NFL, they usually don’t sniff the backfield nor are they expected to handle many touches in games. McCluster’s heard the skeptics attempting to limit him this way, but he insists he’ll be able to handle being Kansas City’s Mr. Everything without breaking down.

“I know a lot of people may doubt me, but however many times coach wants to give me the ball and calls my number, I promise I’ll be there,” he said. “I don’t feel I’m going to wear down. That’s me being a competitor, me being a ballplayer. I’m going do my best, play fast, play hard and stay injury free.”

Photo by Jessica Stewart

Chiefs wide receiver Dexter McCluster runs a drill Tuesday afternoon during training camp at Missouri Western State University

KcMizzou
08-03-2010, 10:54 PM
“I know a lot of people may doubt me, but however many times coach wants to give me the ball and calls my number, I promise I’ll be there,” he said. “I don’t feel I’m going to wear down. That’s me being a competitor, me being a ballplayer. I’m going do my best, play fast, play hard and stay injury free.”
Amen.

Damn, I have high hopes for this kid. Can't wait to see him play.

CaliforniaChief
08-03-2010, 10:55 PM
McCluster and Charles = Flash and Dash.

A nightmare for DC's in the league. Love it.

Mr. Kotter
08-03-2010, 10:56 PM
Very, very...nice. Heh.

As long as he doesn't turn into this year's Jesse Haynes or Brian Shay....I'm good. :)

LaChapelle
08-03-2010, 10:58 PM
They wanted to make a play for Sproles
never got the chance

teedubya
08-04-2010, 12:20 AM
I worry about putting all of the eggs in this 175lb 5'8 guy's basket...

KcMizzou
08-04-2010, 12:30 AM
I worry about putting all of the eggs in this 175lb 5'8 guy's basket...Anyone who's putting all the eggs in that basket is expecting way too much, obviously.

If he's what he seems to be... he'll make the entire offense better. It doesn't have to be about what he does, so much as what he can do.

Get the defense thinking about that... and everything else works better.

DaFace
08-04-2010, 12:31 AM
I know it's partially the homer in me coming out, but I REALLY like the attitude of Berry and McCluster. You can really see the attitude that Haley and Pioli are going for.

Let's just hope it translates to on-field productivity.

KCrockaholic
08-04-2010, 12:32 AM
God...If Charles and McCluster stay injury free, they are going to make magic.

teedubya
08-04-2010, 12:32 AM
Yeah, selecting winners and collegiate captains is a GREAT long term strategy for the success of this franchise.

petegz28
08-04-2010, 12:34 AM
I worry about putting all of the eggs in this 175lb 5'8 guy's basket...

The thing about small guys like him is I would doubt he is going to take many square hits from the front 7. Now a saftey or CB might knock his block off but it is hard for those big guys to get down and paste a smaller guy. Plus he gets lost easily behind a wall of blockers. I am sure he will take his share of hard hits but it just seems those smaller backs don't take too many "jacked up" types of hits. Simply because there just isn't a lot there to square up on.

KCrockaholic
08-04-2010, 12:36 AM
He's small, but he also carried the load in the toughest conference in football and was fine, including his 34 carry game in a bowl game.

People make too much out of his size IMO. Unless Kris Jenkins sits on him, I'm not too worried about him getting injured.

KcMizzou
08-04-2010, 12:37 AM
Yeah, selecting winners and collegiate captains is a GREAT long term strategy for the success of this franchise.LMAO, you kill me.

-King-
08-04-2010, 12:46 AM
The thing about small guys like him is I would doubt he is going to take many square hits from the front 7. Now a saftey or CB might knock his block off but it is hard for those big guys to get down and paste a smaller guy. Plus he gets lost easily behind a wall of blockers. I am sure he will take his share of hard hits but it just seems those smaller backs don't take too many "jacked up" types of hits. Simply because there just isn't a lot there to square up on.

This.

KCrockaholic
08-04-2010, 12:48 AM
BTW, how many 5'8, 170 pound dudes can bench 225, 20 times?

Thats fuggin retard strength right there. I bet Billay couldn't even reach that. :)

HIChief
08-04-2010, 12:52 AM
This guy reminds me of Dante Hall--remember the human joy-stick?

KcMizzou
08-04-2010, 12:54 AM
This guy reminds me of Dante Hall--remember the human joy-stick?Dumbest nickname EVER for a football player. JFC. :facepalm:

But yeah, Dante Hall was amazing... for a short time.

pr_capone
08-04-2010, 12:56 AM
But yeah, Dante Hall was amazing... for a short time.

Hall put up 5 seasons of 1,500+ all purpose yards.

I'll accept the same from DMC.

KcMizzou
08-04-2010, 12:56 AM
Again, Mitch Holthus should never, ever be aloud to nickname a player. Just call the games Mitch... you're good at that.

KCrockaholic
08-04-2010, 12:58 AM
What was LJ's name again? It was something really dumb.

KcMizzou
08-04-2010, 12:59 AM
What was LJ's name again? It was something really dumb.The Centaur... again... :facepalm:

-King-
08-04-2010, 12:59 AM
What was LJ's name again? It was something really dumb.

It was toonicon.


I just googled it, I guess he deleted it.



Edit: I knew I should have read the post before yours...I thought you were talking about twitter ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Von Dumbass
08-04-2010, 01:02 AM
BTW, how many 5'8, 170 pound dudes can bench 225, 20 times?

Thats fuggin retard strength right there. I bet Billay couldn't even reach that. :)

Eddie Royal did 225, 24 times at the combine.

beer bacon
08-04-2010, 01:08 AM
McCluster and Charles = Flash and Dash.

A nightmare for DC's in the league. Love it.

McCluster, Charles, and TJ = Flash, Dash & Smash.

-King-
08-04-2010, 01:36 AM
McCluster, Charles, and TJ = Flash, Dash & Smash.

McCluster, Charles, TJ, and Cassel = Flash, Dash, Smash, and Trash.





:LOL: I joke I joke.

SNR
08-04-2010, 01:42 AM
Dexter McCluster is easily the Chiefs’ yards-after-catch leader in their first five days of training camp, and he added 35 more in perhaps his finest talent display on Wednesday after the 5-foot-8, 170-pound rookie left a trail of linebackers in his path

http://blogs.citypages.com/gimmenoise/back-to-the-future.jpg

SNR
08-04-2010, 01:45 AM
Dumbest nickname EVER for a football player. JFC. :facepalm:

But yeah, Dante Hall was amazing... for a short time.Hehehe... SHORT time... get it?

salame
08-04-2010, 03:59 AM
he is pretty bad ass.............in camp

milkman
08-04-2010, 06:32 AM
Hall put up 5 seasons of 1,500+ all purpose yards.

I'll accept the same from DMC.

McCluster is expected to be a big contributor in the passing game.

Dante Hall only had two seasons with more than 30 catches, and never more than 40.

If McCluster gets more than 50 catches a season, on average, and also returns kicks and punts, he'll more than likely be out of the league within 5 years.

At the very least he'll start having declining numbers.

Darren Sproles looked to be showing signs of diminishing production last year, in only his fourth season in the NFL.

Guys that size just can't last on this level.

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 08:09 AM
McCluster is expected to be a big contributor in the passing game.

Dante Hall only had two seasons with more than 30 catches, and never more than 40.

If McCluster gets more than 50 catches a season, on average, and also returns kicks and punts, he'll more than likely be out of the league within 5 years.

At the very least he'll start having declining numbers.

Darren Sproles looked to be showing signs of diminishing production last year, in only his fourth season in the NFL.

Guys that size just can't last on this level.

Why would the staff over work him?

milkman
08-04-2010, 08:15 AM
Why would the staff over work him?

Because he's a high second round pick and we don't have any one behind him with any talent.

But that goes back to why I think it was a bad pick.

You either overuse him and play him out of the league in about 5 years, or he's a part time player.

Neither are good value for the 36th pick in the draft.

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 08:21 AM
Because he's a high second round pick and we don't have any one behind him with any talent.

But that goes back to why I think it was a bad pick.

You either overuse him and play him out of the league in about 5 years, or he's a part time player.

Neither are good value for the 36th pick in the draft.

Bad pick or good pick, We cant control that. But I am excited to see this kid on the field.

so if the kid is out of the league in 5 years because of over use. That is 5 years worth of drafts and free agents that could be used to replace one player...

You telling us that we cant replace one player in the next five years if we want to? Why so shortsighted with the draft and the future?

Mr. Arrowhead
08-04-2010, 08:27 AM
McCluster is expected to be a big contributor in the passing game.

Dante Hall only had two seasons with more than 30 catches, and never more than 40.

If McCluster gets more than 50 catches a season, on average, and also returns kicks and punts, he'll more than likely be out of the league within 5 years.

At the very least he'll start having declining numbers.

Darren Sproles looked to be showing signs of diminishing production last year, in only his fourth season in the NFL.

Guys that size just can't last on this level.
Steve Smith is a inch taller and about 10 pounds heavier than mccluster, and he has done alright.

milkman
08-04-2010, 08:27 AM
Bad pick or good pick, We cant control that. But I am excited to see this kid on the field.

so if the kid is out of the league in 5 years because of over use. That is 5 years worth of drafts and free agents that could be used to replace one player...

You telling us that we cant replace one player in the next five years if we want to? Why so shortsighted with the draft and the future?

When you're picking high in the draft, you need your first and second round picks to be your foundation pieces.

You need those guys to form the core of your team for 8-10 years.

If you are having to replace these core players every 5 years, then you are just creating a situation, should you find yourself in position to compete for championships, to have a very small window.

milkman
08-04-2010, 08:29 AM
Steve Smith is a inch taller and about 10 pounds heavier than mccluster, and he has done alright.

There are exceptons to every rule.

I don't want to draft hoping that I find exceptions.

The draft is already a crapshoot as it is.

Rausch
08-04-2010, 08:35 AM
You either overuse him and play him out of the league in about 5 years, or he's a part time player.

When's the last time we got 5 years out of a second round pick?

Fuck, I'd be ecstatic if he was productive for 5 years...

milkman
08-04-2010, 08:36 AM
When's the last time we got 5 years out of a second round pick?

****, I'd be ecstatic if he was productive for 5 years...

Lowering your expectations because of previous failures (by others, in this case) is a sure formula for success.

Hog Farmer
08-04-2010, 08:37 AM
Darren Sproles is coached by Norv Turner, of course his production will diminish. What about Barry Sanders

milkman
08-04-2010, 08:40 AM
Darren Sproles is coached by Norv Turner, of course his production will diminish. What about Barry Sanders

Norv Turner, is spite of his shortcomings as a HC, is still one of the best OCs in the NFL.

And Barry Sanders was short, but he wasn't small, weighing in at about 200-205.

Hog Farmer
08-04-2010, 08:44 AM
Norv Turner, is spite of his shortcomings as a HC, is still one of the best OCs in the NFL.

And Barry Sanders was short, but he wasn't small, weighing in at about 200-205.

Maybe so but Norv is not the OC he's the HC which is good for us.

milkman
08-04-2010, 08:46 AM
Maybe so but Norv is not the OC he's the HC which is good for us.

The point is that you can't blame Sproles diminished production last year on Norv Turner.

philfree
08-04-2010, 09:13 AM
If McCluster makes plays and last 5 years in the league that'd be great seeing how the average length of an NFL career is 3.5 years. I hope that we are planning on winning it all before the next 5 years are up.


And no I didn't say a "five year plan".


PhilFree:arrow:

milkman
08-04-2010, 09:18 AM
If McCluster makes plays and last 5 years in the league that'd be great seeing how the average length of an NFL career is 3.5 years. I hope that we are planning on winning it all before the next 5 years are up.


And no I didn't say a "five year plan".


PhilFree:arrow:

That average is skewed by the fact that players on the bottom end of rosters are bounced out of the league so fast.

You need the first and second round picks to give you 8-10 years.

Do you think that Brandon Flowers will be out of the league by the middle of next season?

TheGuardian
08-04-2010, 09:20 AM
Actually there has been a ton of little guys that have had long careers in the NFL. Lots of big guys flash out of the league after a few years too. There isn't any formula here.

milkman
08-04-2010, 09:28 AM
Actually there has been a ton of little guys that have had long careers in the NFL. Lots of big guys flash out of the league after a few years too. There isn't any formula here.

A ton?

Sure there have been a few, and I don't have any stats, but I'd bet the percentage of of little guys that have had long careers (against the total number of little guys that have played in the NFL) is far smaller than that of big guys.

TheGuardian
08-04-2010, 09:42 AM
A ton?

Sure there have been a few, and I don't have any stats, but I'd bet the percentage of of little guys that have had long careers (against the total number of little guys that have played in the NFL) is far smaller than that of big guys.

Well probably but only because of the fact that you've got 5 offensive linemen and 3-4 defensive linemen and linebackers that all have to be "big guys".

But at the "skill" positions like running back, WR, and corner? Nah. Tons of little guys (170-190) have had long careers playing those positions.

boogblaster
08-04-2010, 09:44 AM
MC Caliber will run da ball ....

bsp4444
08-04-2010, 10:02 AM
That average is skewed by the fact that players on the bottom end of rosters are bounced out of the league so fast.

You need the first and second round picks to give you 8-10 years.

Do you think that Brandon Flowers will be out of the league by the middle of next season?

You need players that help you win now. Next year you draft more players that help you win...now. There are a lot of players drafted in the first 2 rounds in 2005 that are not in the league, so it is not out of the norm if McCluster doesn't make it too long. I think he gives us a chance to win some games by incrementally opening up all other facets of the offense.

milkman
08-04-2010, 10:23 AM
You need players that help you win now. Next year you draft more players that help you win...now. There are a lot of players drafted in the first 2 rounds in 2005 that are not in the league, so it is not out of the norm if McCluster doesn't make it too long. I think he gives us a chance to win some games by incrementally opening up all other facets of the offense.

When you're a team that's picking in the top ten of the draft, you need not only to think about now, but the future, as well.

The team does need to improve incrementally, but these guys have to be the core of your team moving forward.

MOhillbilly
08-04-2010, 10:31 AM
Ernest Givins part II.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhETfImfDcw&feature=related

TheGuardian
08-04-2010, 10:31 AM
I don't think that a 2nd round pick HAS to be a 10 year productive guy to be worthy of that pick at all. If he gives you 5-6 highly productive years and plays a critical piece in helping you win games during that time then you got your moneys worth.

OnTheWarpath58
08-04-2010, 10:32 AM
Well probably but only because of the fact that you've got 5 offensive linemen and 3-4 defensive linemen and linebackers that all have to be "big guys".

But at the "skill" positions like running back, WR, and corner? Nah. Tons of little guys (170-190) have had long careers playing those positions.

Agree to an extent, but McCluster is 25 pounds lighter than the high end of your range.

I'm racking my brain trying to come up with a guy that weighed 165 and had a long and productive career.

MOhillbilly
08-04-2010, 10:33 AM
I don't think that a 2nd round pick HAS to be a 10 year productive guy to be worthy of that pick at all. If he gives you 5-6 highly productive years and plays a critical piece in helping you win games during that time then you got your moneys worth.

Depends on the position. 5-6yrs for a RB is great for a lineman or basicaly any other position, not so much.

MOhillbilly
08-04-2010, 10:36 AM
Agree to an extent, but McCluster is 25 pounds lighter than the high end of your range.

I'm racking my brain trying to come up with a guy that weighed 165 and had a long and productive career.

Givins was only 178. I seen him in the locker room and he looked like he was about 158.

TheGuardian
08-04-2010, 10:37 AM
Depends on the position. 5-6yrs for a RB is great for a lineman or basicaly any other position, not so much.

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. When the average guy is out of the league in less than 3 years (and that includes EVERYONE) if you get 5 highly productive years from a second rounder, yeah you got your moneys worth.

How many guys have 5-6 highly productive years? Really. Ronnie Brown was the #2 overall. He hasn't had a single highly productive year yet and isn't considered a bust.

You guys might want to think about these things first.

OnTheWarpath58
08-04-2010, 10:40 AM
Givins was only 178. I seen him in the locker room and he looked like he was about 158.

So he has 13 pounds on Dexter, and played in an era where 260 pound LB's that ran 4.6 or better were a rarity.

Players are much bigger, and much faster than they were in Givins' era.

TheGuardian
08-04-2010, 10:45 AM
McCluster was 172 at the combine.

MOhillbilly
08-04-2010, 10:47 AM
We'll just have to agree to disagree then. When the average guy is out of the league in less than 3 years (and that includes EVERYONE) if you get 5 highly productive years from a second rounder, yeah you got your moneys worth.

How many guys have 5-6 highly productive years? Really. Ronnie Brown was the #2 overall. He hasn't had a single highly productive year yet and isn't considered a bust.

You guys might want to think about these things first.

why dont you tell us something we dont know. Like 5-6 years for a HIGHLY productive 2nd rnd RB is great. BUT for anyother position not so much in a game where lower draft selections have highly productive years for a decade or more.

kepp
08-04-2010, 10:48 AM
I didn't like the pick when it happened, but I'm getting excited about him now.

MOhillbilly
08-04-2010, 10:49 AM
So he has 13 pounds on Dexter, and played in an era where 260 pound LB's that ran 4.6 or better were a rarity.

Players are much bigger, and much faster than they were in Givins' era.

true but football is still football and mccluster is playing now with this generations sports science. In my mind that would even it out.

MOhillbilly
08-04-2010, 10:49 AM
I didn't like the pick when it happened, but I'm getting excited about him now.

no take backs.

TheGuardian
08-04-2010, 10:50 AM
why dont you tell us something we dont know. Like 5-6 years for a HIGHLY productive 2nd rnd RB is great. BUT for anyother position not so much in a game where lower draft selections have highly productive years for a decade or more.

So you think the MAJORITY of 2nd round picks have 5-6 highly productive years?

Would you care to wager on this?

OnTheWarpath58
08-04-2010, 10:51 AM
McCluster was 172 at the combine.

Yes he was.

And just like Sam Bradford, he packed on some weight pre-combine that he'll never keep on - especially once the season starts.

The Chiefs list him at 170, and teams are notorious for fudging those numbers.

He'll be lucky to sustain 170 for the season.

But for the sake of conversation, I'll give you 175, and that he sustains it the entire season.

I'm still wondering who you can refer to that had a long and productive career at 175 or under, in this era.

OnTheWarpath58
08-04-2010, 10:52 AM
true but football is still football and mccluster is playing now with this generations sports science. In my mind that would even it out.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

I hope I'm wrong on the kid - I really do.

But every single player on the opposing defense is going to outweigh him by at least 20 pounds, and in most cases more. LB's, safeties and some CB's are going to outweigh him by quite a bit. (30-90 pounds)

Players say that Sunday in the NFL is like getting into 50 car wrecks. An SUV versus a compact car is no contest.

kepp
08-04-2010, 10:52 AM
no take backs.

Nah...I won't be totally sold on him until I get CoMo's take.

MOhillbilly
08-04-2010, 10:53 AM
So you think the MAJORITY of 2nd round picks have 5-6 highly productive years?

Would you care to wager on this?

are you fucking retarded? Im sayin for my money 5-6 years of highly productive work is great for backs, but not so much for any other position on the field.
JFC!

MOhillbilly
08-04-2010, 10:57 AM
Agree to disagree, I guess.
IDK guy ive seen generations of football players up close and always wonder what they could do now with the sports science available compared to when they org. played.

TheGuardian
08-04-2010, 11:00 AM
are you ****ing retarded? Im sayin for my money 5-6 years of highly productive work is great for backs, but not so much for any other position on the field.
JFC!

Are you? I'm talking about 2nd rounders. The conversation in context matters, so watch who you are calling retarded when you don't even appear to understand what I am saying in plain English.

MahiMike
08-04-2010, 11:23 AM
To the HIP!

MOhillbilly
08-04-2010, 11:27 AM
Are you? I'm talking about 2nd rounders. The conversation in context matters, so watch who you are calling retarded when you don't even appear to understand what I am saying in plain English.

please refer to post 62 and the highlighted portion above it.

Now tell me in plain english where i said i think the "MAJORITY of 2nd round picks have 5-6 highly productive years".

cause im pretty sure in plain english it says

"5-6 years for a HIGHLY productive 2nd rnd RB is great.
BUT for anyother position not so much in a game where lower draft selections have highly productive years for a decade or more."
or
"Depends on the position. 5-6yrs for a RB is great for a lineman or basicaly any other position, not so much."

in the context of your org. post its obvious we are talkin about 2nd round picks. Its also clear that you believe that 5-6 years for a 2nd rounder who is highly productive is kosher with you. correct?

InChiefsHell
08-04-2010, 12:08 PM
Agree to disagree, I guess.

I hope I'm wrong on the kid - I really do.

But every single player on the opposing defense is going to outweigh him by at least 20 pounds, and in most cases more. LB's, safeties and some CB's are going to outweigh him by quite a bit. (30-90 pounds)

Players say that Sunday in the NFL is like getting into 50 car wrecks. An SUV versus a compact car is no contest.

Little compact power guys rarely get hurt. Look at Dante Hall, he was like 180, maybe 185. McCluster will be hard to catch and hard to hit full on. I bet he sticks for quite a few years.

the Talking Can
08-04-2010, 12:13 PM
i hope he's what they think he is....

TheGuardian
08-04-2010, 12:21 PM
please refer to post 62 and the highlighted portion above it.

Now tell me in plain english where i said i think the "MAJORITY of 2nd round picks have 5-6 highly productive years".

cause im pretty sure in plain english it says

"5-6 years for a HIGHLY productive 2nd rnd RB is great.
BUT for anyother position not so much in a game where lower draft selections have highly productive years for a decade or more."
or
"Depends on the position. 5-6yrs for a RB is great for a lineman or basicaly any other position, not so much."

in the context of your org. post its obvious we are talkin about 2nd round picks. Its also clear that you believe that 5-6 years for a 2nd rounder who is highly productive is kosher with you. correct?


Yes. Because if you want to go through the last 20 years of second round picks, I promise you that it's far more full of guys who never did shit than guys who had 5-6 years of high level play, REGARDLESS of position.

Clear enough?

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-04-2010, 12:23 PM
I'm still wondering who you can refer to that had a long and productive career at 175 or under, in this era.

I was thinking of Warrick Dunn, but he was listed at 5' 9" 187

TheGuardian
08-04-2010, 12:26 PM
I was thinking of Warrick Dunn, but he was listed at 5' 9" 187

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HarrMa00.htm

that didn't take long

TheGuardian
08-04-2010, 12:29 PM
I was thinking of Warrick Dunn, but he was listed at 5' 9" 187

Generally as guys get older they get a little heavier. Even athletes. Dunn was 176 pounds when he was drafted.

http://tampabayonline.net/bucs/bios.htm

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-04-2010, 12:30 PM
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HarrMa00.htm

that didn't take long

Nice. Dunn's listed at 180 on that site and amassed 15000 total yards over 12 seasons. Not bad for a little "smurf".

TheGuardian
08-04-2010, 12:34 PM
Nice. Dunn's listed at 180 on that site and amassed 15000 total yards over 12 seasons. Not bad for a little "smurf".

The point is, it's really not about size. Some guys can be small and durable, and some guys are big and durable. Some guys are small and fragile and some guys are big and fragile. There are too many factors at play here. If McCluster is like Harrison and doesn't take many big shots, he could have a long career. Dunn played running back and was never considered injury prone despite his size, and took plenty of shots. It just doesn't have shit to do with anything.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-04-2010, 12:37 PM
The point is, it's really not about size. Some guys can be small and durable, and some guys are big and durable. Some guys are small and fragile and some guys are big and fragile. There are too many factors at play here. If McCluster is like Harrison and doesn't take many big shots, he could have a long career. Dunn played running back and was never considered injury prone despite his size, and took plenty of shots. It just doesn't have shit to do with anything.

Oh, I agee 100%. I've been in the McCluster camp all along. He's going to be a tough little bugger to get a solid hit on anyway.

MOhillbilly
08-04-2010, 12:37 PM
Yes. Because if you want to go through the last 20 years of second round picks, I promise you that it's far more full of guys who never did shit than guys who had 5-6 years of high level play, REGARDLESS of position.

Clear enough?

i got that hoss. got it 25 years ago yadig.

For my $ a 2nd rounder had better be productive for a decade or better, other than a rb who id expect 5-6 yrs production.

yadig?

Lzen
08-04-2010, 12:43 PM
Little compact power guys rarely get hurt. Look at Dante Hall, he was like 180, maybe 185. McCluster will be hard to catch and hard to hit full on. I bet he sticks for quite a few years.

180-185? You sure about that? I thought Dante Hall was around 170.

OnTheWarpath58
08-04-2010, 12:46 PM
180-185? You sure about that? I thought Dante Hall was around 170.

No, he weighed 185.

And wow, we found a guy that weighed 15 pounds more than Dexter who fits the description of a long and productive career.

Personally, "tons" usually means more than "one".

TheGuardian
08-04-2010, 12:48 PM
i got that hoss. got it 25 years ago yadig.

For my $ a 2nd rounder had better be productive for a decade or better, other than a rb who id expect 5-6 yrs production.

yadig?

Then you have an unrealistic expectation of what 2nd rounders generally accomplish. You draft your first rounders to be decade long productive guys, not second rounders. The grading out of players by scouts even reflects that. So you're pretty much off base 6 ways till Sunday.

MOhillbilly
08-04-2010, 01:00 PM
Then you have an unrealistic expectation of what 2nd rounders generally accomplish. You draft your first rounders to be decade long productive guys, not second rounders. The grading out of players by scouts even reflects that. So you're pretty much off base 6 ways till Sunday.

then you sell yourself short on expectations of 2nd rounders.

MOhillbilly
08-04-2010, 01:29 PM
tell ya what i touched base with some people who are in the know about expectaions of 2nd round pics. ill let you know.

OnTheWarpath58
08-04-2010, 01:32 PM
tell ya what i touched base with some people who are in the know about expectaions of 2nd round pics. ill let you know.

Don't waste your time. Seriously.

There's no reason to go to any lengths to back up your claims with him, he just ignores it anyway.

MOhillbilly
08-04-2010, 01:40 PM
Don't waste your time. Seriously.

There's no reason to go to any lengths to back up your claims with him, he just ignores it anyway.

ill atleast fill the rest of you in when i hear back. could be awhile. busy.busy.busy.

MOhillbilly
08-04-2010, 02:17 PM
Don't waste your time. Seriously.

There's no reason to go to any lengths to back up your claims with him, he just ignores it anyway.

you have a smoke hoss.

philfree
08-04-2010, 02:41 PM
That average is skewed by the fact that players on the bottom end of rosters are bounced out of the league so fast.

You need the first and second round picks to give you 8-10 years.

Do you think that Brandon Flowers will be out of the league by the middle of next season?

I hope not but he could be. So could any player no matter how big or small they are though.

McCluster has proven his detractors wrong in regards to being to small to play football more then once. The guy is tough as nails so he has a chance to last in the league just as much as any other player.

IMO draft picks get over analyzed and in this case you are the one doing the analysis. At this point I'd think you'd be pulling for the guy to make it instead of sitting around bitching about him being to small.

What ever turns your crank I guess.

PhilFree:arrow:

TheGuardian
08-04-2010, 06:32 PM
you have a smoke hoss.

That's because you both are aware it's RARE for a 2nd rounder to have a decade of high level play. It's fucking stupid to say that is your EXPECTATION for a second rounder. WTF is the expectation for a first rounder 20 years of high level play? Fucking stupid.

milkman
08-04-2010, 06:48 PM
I hope not but he could be. So could any player no matter how big or small they are though.

McCluster has proven his detractors wrong in regards to being to small to play football more then once. The guy is tough as nails so he has a chance to last in the league just as much as any other player.

IMO draft picks get over analyzed and in this case you are the one doing the analysis. At this point I'd think you'd be pulling for the guy to make it instead of sitting around bitching about him being to small.

What ever turns your crank I guess.

PhilFree:arrow:

Listen dickweed, the fact that I question the pick doesn't mean that I'm not pulling for him.

But why don't you take a look in his eyes. and tell us all what you see.

We just can't buy the kind of analysis you provide, dumbass.

Kyle DeLexus
08-04-2010, 07:27 PM
That's because you both are aware it's RARE for a 2nd rounder to have a decade of high level play. It's ****ing stupid to say that is your EXPECTATION for a second rounder. WTF is the expectation for a first rounder 20 years of high level play? ****ing stupid.

Don't sell him short. He's a high second and when you have high picks your expectations rise. A top 5 in the 1st you want a superstar type player not just productivity. At the top of the 2nd round you want to treat like a late 1st.

philfree
08-04-2010, 07:38 PM
Listen dickweed, the fact that I question the pick doesn't mean that I'm not pulling for him.

But why don't you take a look in his eyes. and tell us all what you see.

We just can't buy the kind of analysis you provide, dumbass.

LOL Whatever. Here's to McCluster giving you something to be happy about. You obviously need it bad.



PhilFree:arrow:

-King-
08-04-2010, 09:18 PM
# KC_Chiefs1 Cassel for 60 to McCluster on the fly...are you kidding me? what a nice night for DMC! 7 minutes ago via SimplyTweet

# Arrowhead Pride ArrowheadPride Cassel to McCluster for six. 50 yds in the air. That dude is faaast. 7 minutes ago via mobile web


http://i25.tinypic.com/2pqnqk3.jpg

Saul Good
08-04-2010, 09:50 PM
When you're picking high in the draft, you need your first and second round picks to be your foundation pieces.

You need those guys to form the core of your team for 8-10 years.

If you are having to replace these core players every 5 years, then you are just creating a situation, should you find yourself in position to compete for championships, to have a very small window.

I'd take Priest Holmes, Terrell Davis, or Gayle Sayers. Hell, I'd even take Barry Foster, Christian Okoye, or Natrone Means.

TheGuardian
08-04-2010, 11:00 PM
Don't sell him short. He's a high second and when you have high picks your expectations rise. A top 5 in the 1st you want a superstar type player not just productivity. At the top of the 2nd round you want to treat like a late 1st.

He's a 2nd rounder. Do you treat high 3rd rounders like second rounders? No. He's a second rounder and it's rare for a second rounder to have 6 years of high level productivity. 10 years is fucking ridiculous.

Short Leash Hootie
08-04-2010, 11:03 PM
people make me laugh...

The Chargers got 6.5 quality years out of LT and he's a sure fire, 1st ballot HOF...

It is what it is...

Mecca
08-04-2010, 11:03 PM
If the basis of if he's productive is Dante Hall it's already a bad pick...seriously using Hall as the barometer is setting it low enough that he can pass it no matter what.

DA_T_84
08-04-2010, 11:25 PM
If the basis of if he's productive is Dante Hall it's already a bad pick...seriously using Hall as the barometer is setting it low enough that he can pass it no matter what.

:(

Tytanium
08-04-2010, 11:33 PM
# KC_Chiefs1 Cassel for 60 to McCluster on the fly...are you kidding me? what a nice night for DMC! 7 minutes ago via SimplyTweet

# Arrowhead Pride ArrowheadPride Cassel to McCluster for six. 50 yds in the air. That dude is faaast. 7 minutes ago via mobile web


I went to camp tonight and DMC was on fire the entire night. He had a ton of great catches. Chambers had a couple of nice one's in the one on one drills, and Bowe had a great catch and juke near the end of practice.

milkman
08-04-2010, 11:58 PM
He's a 2nd rounder. Do you treat high 3rd rounders like second rounders? No. He's a second rounder and it's rare for a second rounder to have 6 years of high level productivity. 10 years is ****ing ridiculous.

Yes, I would expect as much from a high third rounder as I woud from a mid to late 2nd rounder.

And while it may or may not be true that 2nd rounders don't last for more than 5 or 6 seasons, if I'm selecting in the high 2nd round, then I will be selecting a player that I believe has the ability to give me 8-10 years.

We are talking about a slot reciever here, who will be used as a gadget some, and as a returner, not smeone who will be used primarily as a RB, a position that generally has the shortest shelf life.

Productive receivers are guys, generally, that last.

I don't expect this one to last, so I would not use a high second round pick on him.

chiefzilla1501
08-04-2010, 11:59 PM
That's because you both are aware it's RARE for a 2nd rounder to have a decade of high level play. It's ****ing stupid to say that is your EXPECTATION for a second rounder. WTF is the expectation for a first rounder 20 years of high level play? ****ing stupid.

In the magical world of make-believe that exists everywhere outside of Kansas City, it's very possible. But then again, so is the Marshmallow Man.

The truth is, you have a 50/50 shot of hitting on a low first/high second. And well less than a 25% shot of hitting a great player. Even if you don't believe that, most of the hits at this pick are low-risk picks like LBs, Safeties, Running Backs, Centers, Guards, TEs. Filter those guys out and you have a low chance of finding a good player and a very low chance at landing a great player.

I don't know when or why people started acting like high seconds are home runs and that getting players of high positional value is easy with this pick. There's a reason why 30 teams, many of whom have awesome scouts, let these guys fall that low.

milkman
08-05-2010, 12:03 AM
In the magical world of make-believe that exists everywhere outside of Kansas City, it's very possible. But then again, so is the Marshmallow Man.

The truth is, you have a 50/50 shot of hitting on a low first/high second. And well less than a 25% shot of hitting a great player. Even if you don't believe that, most of the hits at this pick are low-risk picks like LBs, Safeties, Running Backs, Centers, Guards, TEs. Filter those guys out and you have a low chance of finding a good player and a very low chance at landing a great player.

I don't know when or why people started acting like high seconds are home runs and that getting players of high positional value is easy with this pick. There's a reason why 30 teams, many of whom have awesome scouts, let these guys fall that low.

You see, you just hit on it.

The second round is where you find LBs, Safeties, RBs, Centers, Guards, and TEs.

Guys that aren't necessaily the playmakers, but that are the core of your team for years.

The draft is a crapshoot, regardless of round, but your best chance at finding a true playmaker is in the first round.

After that, you need to find solid core players.

chiefzilla1501
08-05-2010, 12:09 AM
You see, you just hit on it.

The second round is where you find LBs, Safeties, RBs, Centers, Guards, and TEs.

Guys that aren't necessaily the playmakers, but that are the core of your team for years.

The draft is a crapshoot, regardless of round, but your best chance at finding a true playmaker is in the first round.

After that, you need to find solid core players.

If people want to take that mindset, that's fine. But that's not what I'm hearing. Most people will throw names like Sergio Kindle, Arrelious Benn, Golden Tate and Terence Cody as players we stupidly passed on, as if most teams were too stupid to realize that those guys were hidden playmakers. That's when I get frustrated when people make second round picks become more than what they really are.

milkman
08-05-2010, 12:17 AM
If people want to take that mindset, that's fine. But that's not what I'm hearing. Most people will throw names like Sergio Kindle, Arrelious Benn, Golden Tate and Terence Cody as players we stupidly passed on, as if most teams were too stupid to realize that those guys were hidden playmakers. That's when I get frustrated when people make second round picks become more than what they really are.

This is where I differenciate between "playmaker" and "difference maker".

Berry, and yes, McCluster are potential playmakers at their respective positions.

Berry though, is a guy that I believe will ba able to play at a high level for 10 years.
McNuggett, on the other hand, is a guy who I believe will have diminishing skills by the time he hits his sixth season, and as I said earlier, these guys at the top of the draft in both the 1st and 2nd rounds (and the third really), are guys on a bad team that is building should be your core players for 8-10 years, or that should be the goal.

Now a guy like Terrence Cody, while not a playmaker, would be a difference maker.
He would be the anchor that your 34 defense needs.

Mecca
08-05-2010, 12:25 AM
If Arrellious Benn is a productive starting WR in the league for 10 years while McCluster is gone in 5 because of his size what's the better pick?

That pick can absolutely be questioned, good teams build their cores in the mid rounds we can't be missing on picks when the team is shitty.

beer bacon
08-05-2010, 12:27 AM
I am going to be pissed if McCluster turns out to be good. That bastard will not prove me wrong! I need to start making my argument now for why him having a good season is not actually a good thing. This is much more important then just shutting the fuck up and rooting for our players and team.

milkman
08-05-2010, 12:31 AM
I'd take Priest Holmes, Terrell Davis, or Gayle Sayers. Hell, I'd even take Barry Foster, Christian Okoye, or Natrone Means.

Don't get me wrong here.

I look back fondly on the days of Priest Holmes and Christian Okoye, and if McNuggett is as dynamic as he's reported to be in camp, over the course of 4 or 5 season, I will enjoy the excitement he brings, and look back fondly on his time when he's done.

However, the most dynamic, electrifying player I have ever seen was Gale Sayers.
I would give anything to see him run some more.
I was a big fan as a boy.

But, at the end of the day, if you asked me to draft a Gale Sayers or a Walter Payton when building a team from the ground up, I'm taking Payton, because he lasted longer.

Hell, Id be strongly tempted to take Curtis Martin over Sayers because of his durability.

At the end of the day, as I said, these guys high in the draft have to form your core for years, or that should be the mindset you take to draft.

Mecca
08-05-2010, 12:35 AM
I am going to be pissed if McCluster turns out to be good. That bastard will not prove me wrong! I need to start making my argument now for why him having a good season is not actually a good thing. This is much more important then just shutting the fuck up and rooting for our players and team.

What kinda stupid ass argument is this? No one is rooting for anyone to fail but discussing if the pick is good or bad etc isn't ok? WTF?

beer bacon
08-05-2010, 12:53 AM
What kinda stupid ass argument is this? No one is rooting for anyone to fail but discussing if the pick is good or bad etc isn't ok? WTF?

Disagree. I read and occasionally post in all the camp related threads, and it is the same thing over and over again. A handful of people are extremely hostile in voicing their opinion that the McCluster pick sucked, and it dirties up all these threads. It isn't accurate for you to present what is going on as some sort of civil discussion.

beach tribe
08-05-2010, 02:14 AM
BTW, how many 5'8, 170 pound dudes can bench 225, 20 times?

Thats fuggin retard strength right there. I bet Billay couldn't even reach that. :)

Seriously!

That blows my mind every time I think about it.

20 times? Dude is cock strong.

philfree
08-05-2010, 07:24 AM
All these high expectations for draft picks are a natural thing but using them as a reason to pick a pick apart is silly when end the end we all know that the draft is a crap shoot.


PhilFree:arrow:

TheGuardian
08-05-2010, 07:37 AM
Disagree. I read and occasionally post in all the camp related threads, and it is the same thing over and over again. A handful of people are extremely hostile in voicing their opinion that the McCluster pick sucked, and it dirties up all these threads. It isn't accurate for you to present what is going on as some sort of civil discussion.

Yup. I don't think that Milky wants McCluster to fail, I think he'll be rooting for him obviously. Mecca? Yeah, I think he'll find everything wrong he can with the pick and the player. You can't win with Mecca. The Chiefs suck at everything they do.

TheGuardian
08-05-2010, 07:38 AM
And BTW McCluster was set to be taken what, the very next pick? So anyone saying he was taken too high wasn't in anyones REAL war room.

CoMoChief
08-05-2010, 07:53 AM
Yup. I don't think that Milky wants McCluster to fail, I think he'll be rooting for him obviously. Mecca? Yeah, I think he'll find everything wrong he can with the pick and the player. You can't win with Mecca. The Chiefs suck at everything they do.

Well, we havent won a SB in 40 yrs, and havent won in the playoffs since 16 yrs. I can't really call that success.

Dave Lane
08-05-2010, 08:15 AM
In the last 20 years KCs 2nd rounders have lasted about 1.4 years not 5-6 years. The second round hates Chiefs fans.

Reerun_KC
08-05-2010, 08:27 AM
Well, we havent won a SB in 40 yrs, and havent won in the playoffs since 16 yrs. I can't really call that success.

Start picking agianst the Chiefs and success will follow...:thumb:

MOhillbilly
08-05-2010, 09:26 AM
That's because you both are aware it's RARE for a 2nd rounder to have a decade of high level play. It's ****ing stupid to say that is your EXPECTATION for a second rounder. WTF is the expectation for a first rounder 20 years of high level play? ****ing stupid.

pretty funny because i asked a coach in the nfl what he expected from a 2nd rounded. and his expectaion was that a 2nd rounder is going to be an impact(starter) player for years & years despite all the factors that go into that happening.
Atleast thats what i got out of it.

Try to wrap you mind around concepts other than what you hear on espn.
ya fuckin asshole.

JASONSAUTO
08-05-2010, 09:33 AM
If Arrellious Benn is a productive starting WR in the league for 10 years while McCluster is gone in 5 because of his size what's the better pick?

That pick can absolutely be questioned, good teams build their cores in the mid rounds we can't be missing on picks when the team is shitty.


who are we talking about again? the 2nd is now classified as "mid round"?

JASONSAUTO
08-05-2010, 09:34 AM
This is where I differenciate between "playmaker" and "difference maker".

Berry, and yes, McCluster are potential playmakers at their respective positions.

Berry though, is a guy that I believe will ba able to play at a high level for 10 years.
McNuggett, on the other hand, is a guy who I believe will have diminishing skills by the time he hits his sixth season, and as I said earlier, these guys at the top of the draft in both the 1st and 2nd rounds (and the third really), are guys on a bad team that is building should be your core players for 8-10 years, or that should be the goal.

Now a guy like Terrence Cody, while not a playmaker, would be a difference maker.
He would be the anchor that your 34 defense needs.

i would be willing to bet that cody doesnt play at a high level for 6 years. look at the way he takes care of himself.

Brock
08-05-2010, 09:49 AM
Now a guy like Terrence Cody, while not a playmaker, would be a difference maker.
He would be the anchor that your 34 defense needs.

Unless he's a fat lazy turd like he appears to be.

TheGuardian
08-05-2010, 09:59 AM
pretty funny because i asked a coach in the nfl what he expected from a 2nd rounded. and his expectaion was that a 2nd rounder is going to be an impact(starter) player for years & years despite all the factors that go into that happening.
Atleast thats what i got out of it.

Try to wrap you mind around concepts other than what you hear on espn.
ya ****in asshole.

I don't watch ESPN and haven't in years dipshit.

5-6 years IS years and years. 10+ years of HIGH LEVEL of play is a hall of fame type player. You're saying that you and NFL Coaches EXPECT (EXPECT) second rounders to generally be hall of famers?

No. You are a god damned moron. Shut the fuck up.

MOhillbilly
08-05-2010, 10:09 AM
I don't watch ESPN and haven't in years dipshit.

5-6 years IS years and years. 10+ years of HIGH LEVEL of play is a hall of fame type player. You're saying that you and NFL Coaches EXPECT (EXPECT) second rounders to generally be hall of famers?

No. You are a god damned moron. Shut the **** up.

no i didnt say that. you lose. im out.

-King-
08-05-2010, 10:14 AM
pretty funny because i asked a coach in the nfl what he expected from a 2nd rounded. and his expectaion was that a 2nd rounder is going to be an impact(starter) player for years & years despite all the factors that go into that happening.
Atleast thats what i got out of it.

Try to wrap you mind around concepts other than what you hear on espn.
ya fuckin asshole.

You didnt specify what years and years is. Being very productive for 5 years = being productive for years and years.
Posted via Mobile Device

MOhillbilly
08-05-2010, 10:31 AM
im pretty sure they expect them to be a life long starters atleast in that teams case. Atleast thats what i got out of it. I didnt ask for clarification because he is busy.

Those of you in the know put two & two together and keep it to yourself.

TheGuardian
08-05-2010, 11:01 AM
im pretty sure they expect them to be a life long starters atleast in that teams case. Atleast thats what i got out of it. I didnt ask for clarification because he is busy.

Those of you in the know put two & two together and keep it to yourself.

You said YOU expect a decade of high level of play out of a second rounder. 10 years of high level of plays is a hall of fame type player. And this is what you expect from a 2nd rounder.

Dumbass.

MOhillbilly
08-05-2010, 11:10 AM
You said YOU expect a decade of high level of play out of a second rounder. 10 years of high level of plays is a hall of fame type player. And this is what you expect from a 2nd rounder.

Dumbass.

Never said HOF. Lots of NFL players play at a high level for ten years and never make the HOF.

im done.

TheGuardian
08-05-2010, 12:26 PM
Never said HOF. Lots of NFL players play at a high level for ten years and never make the HOF.

im done.

Learn to read dumbass.

I said hall of fame TYPE player. I didn't say a lock for the hall.

If a guy produces at a high level for a decade he'll be mentioned in terms of greatness. How many guys produce at a high level for a decade that don't get talked about in terms of being an all time great? Hall worth or not. NOT MANY. Yet this is your expectation for a 2nd round pick.

MOhillbilly
08-05-2010, 12:33 PM
lol. what a toolbag.

-King-
08-05-2010, 02:38 PM
lol. what a toolbag.

Hes right. Any player that plays at a HIGH level for a whole decade is a hall of fame candidate.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mecca
08-05-2010, 02:44 PM
Hes right. Any player that plays at a HIGH level for a whole decade is a hall of fame candidate.
Posted via Mobile Device

Ehhh, depends what your definition of high level is, productive starter for a long period doesn't equal HOF consideration.

Brock
08-05-2010, 02:49 PM
Hes right. Any player that plays at a HIGH level for a whole decade is a hall of fame candidate.
Posted via Mobile Device

Laveranues Coles has produced at a high level for the better part of 10 years. Is he a HOF candidate?

DeezNutz
08-05-2010, 02:51 PM
Laveranues Coles has produced at a high level for the better part of 10 years. Is he a HOF candidate?

No. He was a third-round pick, dumbass.

We're talking about second rounders here. :D

Mecca
08-05-2010, 02:55 PM
Flozell Adams was a 2nd that was a productive starting LT for what 8 years? Think he's a HOF candidate?

MOhillbilly
08-05-2010, 02:56 PM
clinton portis.

DeezNutz
08-05-2010, 02:57 PM
Barring injury, Flowers will be a very productive player for 10 years.

bsp4444
08-05-2010, 03:04 PM
Tony Richardson

chiefzilla1501
08-05-2010, 04:52 PM
If Arrellious Benn is a productive starting WR in the league for 10 years while McCluster is gone in 5 because of his size what's the better pick?

That pick can absolutely be questioned, good teams build their cores in the mid rounds we can't be missing on picks when the team is shitty.

Define "productive."

Most WRs you see come out of that spot are 500-yard receivers. Most pass rushers at that spot are 4-5 sacks guys at best. Every once in a while you hit a solid starter. But the truth is, especially when talking about positions of higher positional value, the majority of those players are going to be rotational players at best.

I understand the longevity argument. It's a fair argument to make. But it's worth questioning whether you want a durable serviceable rotation player for 10 years or a dynamic 5-year guy.

Chris Meck
08-05-2010, 04:58 PM
I really for the life of me cannot understand why everyone assumes that McCluster is going to be out of the league in 5 years due to his size.

It's not like we're going to hand him the ball and run him into the middle of the line 300 times a season.

he's going to be a slot receiver/trick play back. He's not going to be in there mixing it up with the 300 lb'ers. He's going to be outside, in space.

He's pretty stout; it's not like he's a stick figure. He'll be fine. He's not going to get the big hit because you can't really set up and deliver a big blow on guys like that.

I really don't think it's going to be an issue.

Fish
08-05-2010, 05:19 PM
810 just reported that McCluster just blew out shoe #4 in camp....

Let the tall tales begin..

RedThat
08-05-2010, 05:22 PM
I really for the life of me cannot understand why everyone assumes that McCluster is going to be out of the league in 5 years due to his size.

Your curiousity can be satisfied in two words:

Chiefsplanet

TheGuardian
08-05-2010, 05:49 PM
Flozell Adams was a 2nd that was a productive starting LT for what 8 years? Think he's a HOF candidate?

For every guy you can name like this, I can name 10 that sucked.

That's the point. Guys like Flozell having almost a decade of solid play, that were taken in the 2nd, are rare. Not common AT ALL. That's the point.

chiefzilla1501
08-05-2010, 05:51 PM
For every guy you can name like this, I can name 10 that sucked.

That's the point. Guys like Flozell having almost a decade of solid play, that were taken in the 2nd, are rare. Not common AT ALL. That's the point.

Exactly. Especially when you're talking about players of high positional value. I can see milkman's point about Guards, LBs, TEs, RBs, Centers. But people are talking about NTs and DEs and WRs, and most of those guys have huge bust potential (if we consider a bust to be a player that never amounts to anything more than a rotational player).

Extra Point
08-05-2010, 05:57 PM
Tony Richardson

:cuss:DAMMIT CARL!

Deberg_1990
08-05-2010, 05:59 PM
McCluster = this years Jessie Haynes!

|Zach|
08-05-2010, 06:01 PM
McCluster = this years Jessie Haynes!

:spock:

Deberg_1990
08-05-2010, 06:03 PM
:spock:

Let me clarify....i meant in the tall tales.....not in what i think his career will be.

|Zach|
08-05-2010, 06:11 PM
Let me clarify....i meant in the tall tales.....not in what i think his career will be.

Ah, gotcha.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-05-2010, 06:22 PM
Too lazy right now to do it myself, but someone could pull up the 2nd rounders selected from say 2000-2006. About the only way to really get a feel for how many of these guys pan out.

Mecca
08-05-2010, 06:25 PM
Too lazy right now to do it myself, but someone could pull up the 2nd rounders selected from say 2000-2006. About the only way to really get a feel for how many of these guys pan out.

You mean from the league and not just the Chiefs right..

Dicky McElephant
08-05-2010, 06:28 PM
2000:

32 Dennis Northcutt WR Arizona Cleveland Browns
33 Darren Howard DE Kansas State New Orleans Saints
34 Mark Roman CB Louisiana State Cincinnati Bengals
35 John Engelberger DE Virginia Tech San Francisco 49ers
36 Todd Pinkston WR Southern Mississippi Philadelphia Eagles
37 Travis Claridge G USC Atlanta Falcons
38 Marvel Smith T Arizona State Pittsburgh Steelers
39 Mike Brown FS Nebraska Chicago Bears
40 Ian Gold LB Michigan Denver Broncos
41 Raynoch Thompson OLB Tennessee Arizona Cardinals
42 Cornelius Griffin DT Alabama New York Giants
43 Rogers Beckett SAF Marshall San Diego Chargers
44 Chad Clifton T Tennessee Green Bay Packers
45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas Denver Broncos
46 Adrian Klemm T Hawaii New England Patriots
47 Jerry Porter WR West Virginia Oakland Raiders
48 Jason Webster CB Texas A&M San Francisco 49ers
49 Dwayne Goodrich DB Tennessee Dallas Cowboys
50 Barrett Green LB West Virginia Detroit Lions
51 Cosey Coleman G Tennessee Tampa Bay Buccaneers
52 Ike Charlton CB Virginia Tech Seattle Seahawks
53 Todd Wade T Mississippi Miami Dolphins
54 William Bartee CB Oklahoma Kansas City Chiefs
55 Fred Robbins DT Wake Forest Minnesota Vikings
56 Michael Boireau DE Miami (Fla.) Minnesota Vikings
57 Deon Grant SAF Tennessee Carolina Panthers
58 Travares Tillman FS Georgia Tech Buffalo Bills
59 Marcus Washington LB Auburn Indianapolis Colts
60 Brad Meester G Northern Iowa Jacksonville Jaguars
61 Bobbie Williams G Arkansas Philadelphia Eagles
62 Jacoby Shepherd DB Oklahoma State St. Louis Rams


2001:

32 Drew Brees QB Purdue San Diego Chargers
33 Quincy Morgan WR Kansas State Cleveland Browns
34 Kyle Vanden Bosch DE Nebraska Arizona Cardinals
35 Alge Crumpler TE North Carolina Atlanta Falcons
36 Chad Johnson WR Oregon State Cincinnati Bengals
37 Idrees Bashir FS Memphis Indianapolis Colts
38 Anthony Thomas RB Michigan Chicago Bears
39 Kendrell Bell ILB Georgia Pittsburgh Steelers
40 Ken Lucas CB Mississippi Seattle Seahawks
41 Robert Ferguson WR Texas A&M Green Bay Packers
42 Tommy Polley OLB Florida State St. Louis Rams
43 Maurice Williams T Michigan Jacksonville Jaguars
44 Kris Jenkins DT Maryland Carolina Panthers
45 Fred Smoot CB Mississippi State Washington Redskins
46 Aaron Schobel DE Texas Christian Buffalo Bills
47 Jamie Winborn OLB Vanderbilt San Francisco 49ers
48 Matt Light T Purdue New England Patriots
49 LaMont Jordan RB Maryland New York Jets
50 Dominic Raiola C Nebraska Detroit Lions
51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall Denver Broncos
52 Chris Chambers WR Wisconsin Miami Dolphins
53 Quincy Carter QB Georgia Dallas Cowboys
54 Michael Stone DB Memphis Arizona Cardinals
55 Quinton Caver LB Arkansas Philadelphia Eagles
56 Tony Dixon DB Alabama Dallas Cowboys
57 Willie Howard DT Stanford Minnesota Vikings
58 Travis Henry HB Tennessee Buffalo Bills
59 Marques Tuiasosopo QB Washington Oakland Raiders
60 Andre Dyson CB Utah Tennessee Titans
61 Shaun Rogers NT Texas Detroit Lions
62 Gary Baxter DB Baylor Baltimore Ravens


2002:

33 Jabar Gaffney WR Florida Houston Texans
34 DeShaun Foster RB UCLA Carolina Panthers
35 Kalimba Edwards DE South Carolina Detroit Lions
36 Josh Reed WR Louisiana State Buffalo Bills
37 Andre Gurode G Colorado Dallas Cowboys
38 Raonall Smith LB Washington State Minnesota Vikings
39 Toniu Fonoti G Nebraska San Diego Chargers
40 Mike Pearson T Florida Jacksonville Jaguars
41 Lamont Thompson DB Washington State Cincinnati Bengals
42 Larry Tripplett DT Washington Indianapolis Colts
43 Eddie Freeman DT Alabama-Birmingham Kansas City Chiefs
44 LeCharles Bentley G Ohio State New Orleans Saints
45 Tank Williams SS Stanford Tennessee Titans
46 Tim Carter WR Auburn New York Giants
47 Andre Davis WR Virginia Tech Cleveland Browns
48 Reche Caldwell WR Florida San Diego Chargers
49 Levar Fisher LB North Carolina State Arizona Cardinals
50 Chester Pitts T San Diego State Houston Texans
51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.) Denver Broncos
52 Anthony Weaver DE Notre Dame Baltimore Ravens
53 Langston Walker T California Oakland Raiders
54 Maurice Morris RB Oregon Seattle Seahawks
55 Doug Jolley TE Brigham Young Oakland Raiders
56 Ladell Betts RB Iowa Washington Redskins
57 Jon McGraw DB Kansas State New York Jets
58 Michael M. Lewis SS Colorado Philadelphia Eagles
59 Sheldon Brown CB South Carolina Philadelphia Eagles
60 Anton Palepoi DE Nevada-Las Vegas Seattle Seahawks
61 Ryan Denney DE Brigham Young Buffalo Bills
62 Antwaan Randle El WR Indiana Pittsburgh Steelers
63 Antonio Bryant WR Pittsburgh Dallas Cowboys
64 Travis Fisher CB Central Florida St. Louis Rams
65 Deion Branch WR Louisville New England Patriots

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-05-2010, 06:28 PM
You mean from the league and not just the Chiefs right..

Absolutely the league...KC wouldn't be a good example.

Mecca
08-05-2010, 06:29 PM
Should I put some kind of notice by the guys who made pro bowls?
2000
32 Cleveland Browns Dennis Northcutt Wide Receiver Arizona
33 New Orleans Saints Darren Howard Defensive End Kansas State
34 Cincinnati Bengals Mark Roman Safety LSU
35 San Francisco 49ers John Engelberger Defensive End Virginia Tech
36 Philadelphia Eagles Todd Pinkston Wide Receiver Southern Miss
37 Atlanta Falcons Travis Claridge Guard USC
38 Pittsburgh Steelers Marvel Smith Tackle Arizona State
39 Chicago Bears Mike Brown Strong Safety Nebraska
40 Denver Broncos Ian Gold Linebacker Michigan
41 Arizona Cardinals Raynoch Thompson Linebacker Tennessee
42 New York Giants Cornelius Griffin Defensive Tackle Alabama
43 San Diego Chargers Rogers Beckett Strong Safety Marshall
44 Green Bay Packers Chad Clifton Tackle Tennessee
45 Denver Broncos (from Baltimore) Kenoy Kennedy Strong Safety Arkansas
46 New England Patriots Adrian Klemm Tackle Hawaii
47 Oakland Raiders Jerry Porter Wide Receiver West Virginia
48 San Francisco 49ers (from New York Jets) Jason Webster Cornerback Texas A&M
49 Dallas Cowboys Dwayne Goodrich Cornerback Tennessee
50 Detroit Lions Barrett Green Linebacker West Virginia
51 Tampa Bay Buccaneers (from Carolina) [3] Cosey Coleman Guard Tennessee
52 Seattle Seahawks Ike Charlton Cornerback Virginia Tech
53 Miami Dolphins Todd Wade Tackle Mississippi
54 Kansas City Chiefs William Bartee Cornerback Oklahoma
55 Minnesota Vikings Fred Robbins Defensive Tackle Wake Forest
56 Minnesota Vikings (from Washington) Michael Boireau Defensive End Miami (FL)
57 Carolina Panthers (from Tampa Bay) [3] Deon Grant Free Safety Tennessee
58 Buffalo Bills Travares Tillman Free Safety Georgia Tech
59 Indianapolis Colts Marcus Washington Linebacker Auburn
60 Jacksonville Jaguars Brad Meester Center UNI
61 Philadelphia Eagles (from Tennessee) [4] Bobbie Williams Guard Arkansas
62 St. Louis Rams Jacoby Shepherd Cornerback Oklahoma State

2001
32 San Diego Chargers Brees, DrewDrew Brees† Quarterback Purdue
33 Cleveland Browns Morgan, Quincy Quincy Morgan Wide Receiver Kansas State
34 Arizona Cardinals Bosch, Kyle VandenKyle Vanden Bosch† Defensive End Nebraska
35 Atlanta Falcons Crumpler, Alge Alge Crumpler† Tight End North Carolina
36 Cincinnati Bengals Ochocinco, ChadChad Johnson† Wide Receiver Oregon State
37 Indianapolis Colts (from Dallas)[14] Bashir, Idrees Idrees Bashir Free Safety Memphis
38 Chicago Bears Thomas, Anthony Anthony Thomas Running Back Michigan
39 Pittsburgh Steelers (from New England)[15] Bell, Kendrell Kendrell Bell† Outside Linebacker Georgia
40 Seattle Seahawks Lucas, Ken Ken Lucas Cornerback Mississippi
41 Green Bay Packers (from San Francisco)[16] Ferguson, Robert Robert Ferguson Wide Receiver Texas A&M
42 St. Louis Rams (from Kansas City)[9] Polley, Tommy Tommy Polley Outside Linebacker Florida State
43 Jacksonville Jaguars Williams, Maurice Maurice Williams Tackle Michigan
44 Carolina Panthers Jenkins, Kris Kris Jenkins† Defensive Tackle Maryland
45 Washington Redskins Smoot, Fred Fred Smoot Cornerback Mississippi State
46 Buffalo Bills Schobel, AaronAaron Schobel† Defensive End Texas Christian
47 San Francisco 49ers (from Green Bay)[16] Winborn, Jamie Jamie Winborn Outside Linebacker Vanderbilt
48 New England Patriots (from Detroit)[17] Light, MattMatt Light† Tackle Purdue
49 New York Jets Jordan Lamont LaMont Jordan Running Back Maryland
50 Detroit Lions (from Pittsburgh through New England)[15][17] Raiola, Dominic Dominic Raiola Center Nebraska
51 Denver Broncos (from Tampa Bay through Buffalo)[10][18] Toviessi, Paul Paul Toviessi Defensive End Marshall
52 Miami Dolphins (from Indianapolis through Dallas)[14][19] Chambers, ChrisChris Chambers† Wide Receiver Wisconsin
53 Dallas Cowboys (from New Orleans)[20] Carter, Quincy Quincy Carter Quarterback Georgia
54 Arizona Cardinals (from St. Louis)[21] Stone, Michael Michael Stone Strong Safety Memphis
55 Philadelphia Eagles Caver, Quinton Quinton Caver Outside Linebacker Arkansas
56 Dallas Cowboys (from Miami)[19] Dixon, Tony Tony Dixon Strong Safety Alabama
57 Minnesota Vikings Howard, Willie Willie Howard Defensive End Stanford
58 Buffalo Bills (from Denver)[18] Henry, Travis Travis Henry† Running Back Tennessee
59 Oakland Raiders Tuiasosopo, Marques Marques Tuiasosopo Quarterback Washington
60 Tennessee Titans Dyson, Andre Andre Dyson Cornerback Utah
61 Detroit Lions (from New York Giants)[22] Rogers, Shaun Shaun Rogers† Defensive Tackle Texas
62 Baltimore Ravens Baxter, Gary Gary Baxter Cornerback Baylor

2002

33 Houston Texans Jabar Gaffney Wide Receiver Florida
34 Carolina Panthers DeShaun Foster Running Back UCLA
35 Detroit Lions Kalimba Edwards Defensive End South Carolina
36 Buffalo Bills Josh Reed Wide Receiver LSU
37 Dallas Cowboys Andre Gurode Center Colorado
38 Minnesota Vikings Raonall Smith Linebacker Washington State
39 San Diego Chargers Toniu Fonoti Guard Nebraska
40 Jacksonville Jaguars Mike Pearson Offensive tackle Florida
41 Cincinnati Bengals Lamont Thompson Free Safety Washington State
42 Indianapolis Colts Larry Tripplett Defensive Tackle Washington
43 Kansas City Chiefs Eddie Freeman Defensive End UAB
44 New Orleans Saints LeCharles Bentley Center Ohio State
45 Tennessee Titans Tank Williams Strong Safety Stanford
46 New York Giants Tim Carter Wide Receiver Auburn
47 Cleveland Browns André Davis Wide Receiver Virginia Tech
48 San Diego Chargers Reche Caldwell Wide Receiver Florida
49 Arizona Cardinals Levar Fisher Linebacker NC State
50 Houston Texans Chester Pitts Guard San Diego State
51 Denver Broncos Clinton Portis Running Back Miami (FL)
52 Baltimore Ravens (from Washington) Anthony Weaver Defensive End Notre Dame
53 Oakland Raiders (from Tampa Bay) Langston Walker Guard California
54 Seattle Seahawks Maurice Morris Running Back Oregon
55 Oakland Raiders Doug Jolley Tight End Brigham Young
56 Washington Redskins (from Baltimore) Ladell Betts Running Back Iowa
57 New York Jets Jon McGraw Safety Kansas State
58 Philadelphia Eagles Michael Lewis Safety Colorado
59 Philadelphia Eagles (from Miami)[4] Sheldon Brown Cornerback South Carolina
60 Seattle Seahawks (from Green Bay) Anton Palepoi Defensive End UNLV
61 Buffalo Bills (from San Francisco) Ryan Denney Defensive End Brigham Young
62 Pittsburgh Steelers Antwaan Randle El Wide Receiver Indiana
63 Dallas Cowboys (from Chicago) Antonio Bryant Wide Receiver Pittsburgh
64 St. Louis Rams Travis Fisher Cornerback Central Florida
65 New England Patriots Deion Branch Wide Receiver Louisville

Dicky McElephant
08-05-2010, 06:29 PM
2003:

33 Eric Steinbach G Iowa Cincinnati Bengals
34 Boss Bailey OLB Georgia Detroit Lions
35 Charles Tillman CB Louisiana-Lafayette Chicago Bears
36 Eugene Wilson FS Illinois New England Patriots
37 Jonathan Stinchcomb T Georgia New Orleans Saints
38 Al Johnson C Wisconsin Dallas Cowboys
39 Rashean Mathis CB Bethune-Cookman Jacksonville Jaguars
40 E.J. Henderson LB Maryland Minnesota Vikings
41 Bennie Joppru TE Michigan Houston Texans
42 Ken Hamlin FS Arkansas Seattle Seahawks
43 Pisa Tinoisamoa OLB Hawaii St. Louis Rams
44 Taylor Jacobs WR Florida Washington Redskins
45 Bethel Johnson WR Texas A&M New England Patriots
46 Drayton Florence CB Tuskegee San Diego Chargers
47 Kawika Mitchell MLB South Florida Kansas City Chiefs
48 Chris Kelsay DE Nebraska Buffalo Bills
49 Eddie Moore LB Tennessee Miami Dolphins
50 Bruce Nelson C Iowa Carolina Panthers
51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State Denver Broncos
52 Chaun Thompson LB West Texas A&M Cleveland Browns
53 Victor Hobson LB Michigan New York Jets
54 Anquan Boldin WR Florida State Arizona Cardinals
55 Bryan Scott SS Penn State Atlanta Falcons
56 Osi Umenyiora DE Troy State New York Giants
57 Anthony Adams DT Penn State San Francisco 49ers
58 Mike Doss SS Ohio State Indianapolis Colts
59 Alonzo Jackson LB Florida State Pittsburgh Steelers
60 Tyrone Calico WR Middle Tennessee State Tennessee Titans
61 L.J. Smith TE Rutgers Philadelphia Eagles
62 Terrence Kiel SS Texas A&M San Diego Chargers
63 Teyo Johnson TE Stanford Oakland Raiders
64 Dewayne White DE Louisville Tampa Bay Buccaneers


2004:

33 Karlos Dansby OLB Auburn Arizona Cardinals
34 Chris Snee G Boston College New York Giants
35 Igor Olshansky DE Oregon San Diego Chargers
36 Junior Siavii DT Oregon Kansas City Chiefs
37 Teddy Lehman OLB Oklahoma Detroit Lions
38 Ricardo Colclough CB Tusculum Pittsburgh Steelers
39 Daryl Smith OLB Georgia Tech Jacksonville Jaguars
40 Ben Troupe TE Florida Tennessee Titans
41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State Denver Broncos
42 Travis LaBoy DE Hawaii Tennessee Titans
43 Julius Jones RB Notre Dame Dallas Cowboys
44 Bob Sanders DB Iowa Indianapolis Colts
45 Jake Grove G Virginia Tech Oakland Raiders
46 Justin Smiley G Alabama San Francisco 49ers
47 Tank Johnson DT Washington Chicago Bears
48 Dontarrious Thomas OLB Auburn Minnesota Vikings
49 Keiwan Ratliff CB Florida Cincinnati Bengals
50 Devery Henderson WR Louisiana State New Orleans Saints
51 Dwan Edwards DT Oregon State Baltimore Ravens
52 Jacob Rogers T USC Dallas Cowboys
53 Michael Boulware DB Florida State Seattle Seahawks
54 Darius Watts WR Marshall Denver Broncos
55 Greg Jones RB Florida State Jacksonville Jaguars
56 Madieu Williams FS Maryland Cincinnati Bengals
57 Antwan Odom DE Alabama Tennessee Titans
58 Shawntae Spencer CB Pittsburgh San Francisco 49ers
59 Sean Jones SAF Georgia Cleveland Browns
60 Courtney Watson MLB Notre Dame New Orleans Saints
61 Kris Wilson TE Pittsburgh Kansas City Chiefs
62 Keary Colbert WR USC Carolina Panthers
63 Marquise Hill DE Louisiana State New England Patriots


2005:

33 David Baas G Michigan San Francisco 49ers
34 Brodney Pool DB Oklahoma Cleveland Browns
35 Reggie Brown WR Georgia Philadelphia Eagles
36 Barrett Ruud LB Nebraska Tampa Bay Buccaneers
37 Shaun Cody DE USC Detroit Lions
38 Stanford Routt DB Houston Oakland Raiders
39 Mark Bradley WR Oklahoma Chicago Bears
40 Josh Bullocks FS Nebraska New Orleans Saints
41 Michael Roos T Eastern Washington Tennessee Titans
42 Kevin Burnett LB Tennessee Dallas Cowboys
43 Corey Webster DB Louisiana State New York Giants
44 J.J. Arrington RB California Arizona Cardinals
45 Lofa Tatupu MLB USC Seattle Seahawks
46 Matt Roth DE Iowa Miami Dolphins
47 Mike Nugent K Ohio State New York Jets
48 Odell Thurman MLB Georgia Cincinnati Bengals
49 Marcus Johnson G Mississippi Minnesota Vikings
50 Ronald Bartell CB Howard St. Louis Rams
51 Nick Collins FS Bethune-Cookman Green Bay Packers
52 Khalif Barnes T Washington Jacksonville Jaguars
53 Dan Cody LB Oklahoma Baltimore Ravens
54 Eric Shelton RB Louisville Carolina Panthers
55 Roscoe Parrish WR Miami (Fla.) Buffalo Bills
56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State Denver Broncos
57 Justin Miller CB Clemson New York Jets
58 Terrence Murphy WR Texas A&M Green Bay Packers
59 Jonathan Babineaux DE Iowa Atlanta Falcons
60 Kelvin Hayden DB Illinois Indianapolis Colts
61 Vincent Jackson WR Northern Colorado San Diego Chargers
62 Bryant McFadden DB Florida State Pittsburgh Steelers
63 Matt McCoy LB San Diego State Philadelphia Eagles
64 Adam Terry T Syracuse Baltimore Ravens


2006:

33 DeMeco Ryans MLB Alabama Houston Texans
34 D'Qwell Jackson ILB Maryland Cleveland Browns
35 Rocky McIntosh LB Miami (Fla.) Washington Redskins
36 Chad Jackson WR Florida New England Patriots
37 Jimmy Williams CB Virginia Tech Atlanta Falcons
38 Thomas Howard OLB Texas-El Paso Oakland Raiders
39 Winston Justice T USC Philadelphia Eagles
40 Daniel Bullocks SS Nebraska Detroit Lions
41 Deuce Lutui G USC Arizona Cardinals
42 Danieal Manning FS Abilene Christian Chicago Bears
43 Roman Harper SS Alabama New Orleans Saints
44 Sinorice Moss WR Miami (Fla.) New York Giants
45 LenDale White RB USC Tennessee Titans
46 Joe Klopfenstein TE Colorado St. Louis Rams
47 Daryn Colledge G Boise State Green Bay Packers
48 Cedric Griffin CB Texas Minnesota Vikings
49 Kellen Clemens QB Oregon New York Jets
50 Marcus McNeill T Auburn San Diego Chargers
51 Ryan Cook C New Mexico Minnesota Vikings
52 Greg Jennings WR Western Michigan Green Bay Packers
53 Anthony Fasano TE Notre Dame Dallas Cowboys
54 Bernard Pollard DB Purdue Kansas City Chiefs
55 Andrew Whitworth T Louisiana State Cincinnati Bengals
56 Chris Chester C Oklahoma Baltimore Ravens
57 Devin Hester DB Miami (Fla.) Chicago Bears
58 Richard Marshall CB Fresno State Carolina Panthers
59 Jeremy Trueblood T Boston College Tampa Bay Buccaneers
60 Maurice Jones-Drew RB UCLA Jacksonville Jaguars
61 Tony Scheffler TE Western Michigan Denver Broncos
62 Tim Jennings CB Georgia Indianapolis Colts
63 Darryl Tapp DE Virginia Tech Seattle Seahawks
64 Tarvaris Jackson QB Alabama State Minnesota Vikings

Mecca
08-05-2010, 06:32 PM
2003
33 Cincinnati Bengals Eric Steinbach Guard Iowa
34 Detroit Lions Boss Bailey Linebacker Georgia
35 Chicago Bears Charles Tillman Cornerback Louisiana-Lafayette
36 New England Patriots Eugene Wilson Cornerback Illinois
37 New Orleans Saints Jon Stinchcomb Offensive Tackle Georgia
38 Dallas Cowboys Al Johnson Center Wisconsin
39 Jacksonville Jaguars Rashean Mathis Cornerback Bethune-Cookman
40 Minnesota Vikings E.J. Henderson Linebacker Maryland
41 Houston Texans Bennie Joppru Tight End Michigan
42 Seattle Seahawks Ken Hamlin Safety Arkansas
43 St. Louis Rams Pisa Tinoisamoa Linebacker Hawaii
44 Washington Redskins Taylor Jacobs Wide Receiver Florida
45 New England Patriots Bethel Johnson Wide Receiver Texas A&M
46 San Diego Chargers Drayton Florence Cornerback Tuskegee
47 Kansas City Chiefs Kawika Mitchell Linebacker USF
48 Buffalo Bills Chris Kelsay Defensive End Nebraska
49 Miami Dolphins Eddie Moore Linebacker Tennessee
50 Carolina Panthers Bruce Nelson Center Iowa
51 Denver Broncos Terry Pierce Linebacker Kansas State
52 Cleveland Browns Chaun Thompson Linebacker West Texas A&M
53 New York Jets Victor Hobson Linebacker Michigan
54 Arizona Cardinals Anquan Boldin Wide Receiver Florida State
55 Atlanta Falcons Bryan Scott Safety Penn State
56 New York Giants Osi Umenyiora Defensive End Troy State
57 San Francisco 49ers Anthony Adams Defensive Tackle Penn State
58 Indianapolis Colts Mike Doss Safety Ohio State
59 Pittsburgh Steelers Alonzo Jackson Linebacker Florida State
60 Tennessee Titans Tyrone Calico Wide Receiver Middle Tennessee State
61 Philadelphia Eagles L.J. Smith Tight End Rutgers
62 San Diego Chargers Terrence Kiel Safety Texas A&M
63 Oakland Raiders Teyo Johnson Tight End Stanford
64 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Dewayne White Defensive End Louisville

2004
33 Arizona Cardinals Karlos Dansby Linebacker Auburn
34 New York Giants Chris Snee Offensive Tackle Boston College
35 San Diego Chargers Igor Olshansky Defensive Tackle Oregon
36 Kansas City Chiefs (from Detroit)[6] Junior Siavii Defensive Tackle Oregon
37 Detroit Lions (from Cleveland[6]) Teddy Lehman Linebacker Oklahoma
38 Pittsburgh Steelers (from Atlanta through Indianapolis[6]) Ricardo Colclough Cornerback Tusculum
39 Jacksonville Jaguars Daryl Smith Linebacker Georgia Tech
40 Tennessee Titans (from Houston[6]) Ben Troupe Tight End Florida
41 Denver Broncos (from Washington[6]) Tatum Bell Running Back Oklahoma State
42 Tennessee Titans (from New York Jets[6]) Travis LaBoy Defensive End Hawaii
43 Dallas Cowboys (from Buffalo)[7] Julius Jones Running Back Notre Dame
44 Indianapolis Colts (from Pittsburgh[6]) Bob Sanders Strong Safety Iowa
45 Oakland Raiders (from Tampa Bay[6]) Jake Grove Center Virginia Tech
46 San Francisco 49ers Justin Smiley Guard Alabama
47 Chicago Bears Tank Johnson Defensive Tackle Washington
48 Minnesota Vikings (from New Orleans[6]) Dontarrious Thomas Linebacker Auburn
49 Cincinnati Bengals Keiwan Ratliff Cornerback Florida
50 New Orleans Saints (from Minnesota[6]) Devery Henderson Wide Receiver LSU
51 Baltimore Ravens Dwan Edwards Defensive Tackle Oregon State
52 Dallas Cowboys Jacob Rogers Offensive Tackle Southern California
53 Seattle Seahawks Michael Boulware Strong Safety Florida State
54 Denver Broncos Darius Watts Wide Receiver Marshall
55 Jacksonville Jaguars Greg Jones Fullback Florida State
56 Cincinnati Bengals (from Miami through New England[6]) Madieu Williams Free Safety Maryland
57 Tennessee Titans Antwan Odom Defensive End Alabama
58 San Francisco 49ers (from Philadelphia[6]) Shawntae Spencer Cornerback Pittsburgh
59 Cleveland Browns (from Indianapolis[6]) Sean Jones Free Safety Georgia
60 New Orleans Saints (from St. Louis[6]) Courtney Watson Linebacker Notre Dame
61 Kansas City Chiefs Kris Wilson Tight End Pittsburgh
62 Carolina Panthers Keary Colbert Wide Receiver Southern California
63 New England Patriots Marquise Hill Defensive End LSU

2005

33 San Francisco 49ers David Baas Center Michigan
34 Cleveland Browns Brodney Pool Safety Oklahoma
35 Philadelphia Eagles (from Miami) Reggie Brown Wide Receiver Georgia
36 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Barrett Ruud Linebacker Nebraska
37 Detroit Lions (from Tennessee) Shaun Cody Defensive Tackle USC
38 Oakland Raiders Stanford Routt Cornerback Houston
39 Chicago Bears Mark Bradley Wide Receiver Oklahoma
40 New Orleans Saints (from Washington) Josh Bullocks Safety Nebraska
41 Tennessee Titans (from Detroit) Michael Roos Offensive Tackle Eastern Washington
42 Dallas Cowboys Kevin Burnett Linebacker Tennessee
43 New York Giants Corey Webster Cornerback LSU
44 Arizona Cardinals J. J. Arrington Running back California
45 Seattle Seahawks (from Carolina) Lofa Tatupu Linebacker USC
46 Miami Dolphins (from Kansas City) Matt Roth Defensive End Iowa
47 New York Jets (from Houston through Oakland) Mike Nugent Placekicker Ohio State
48 Cincinnati Bengals Odell Thurman Linebacker Georgia
49 Minnesota Vikings Marcus Johnson Offensive Tackle Mississippi
50 St. Louis Rams Ron Bartell Cornerback Howard
51 Green Bay Packers (from New Orleans) Nick Collins Safety Bethune-Cookman
52 Jacksonville Jaguars Khalif Barnes Offensive Tackle Washington
53 Baltimore Ravens Dan Cody Defensive End Oklahoma
54 Carolina Panthers (from Seattle) Eric Shelton Running back Louisville
55 Buffalo Bills Roscoe Parrish Wide Receiver Miami (FL)
56 Denver Broncos Darrent Williams Cornerback Oklahoma State
57 New York Jets Justin Miller Cornerback Clemson
58 Green Bay Packers Terrence Murphy Wide Receiver Texas A&M
59 Atlanta Falcons Jonathan Babineaux Defensive Tackle Iowa
60 Indianapolis Colts Kelvin Hayden Cornerback Illinois
61 San Diego Chargers Vincent Jackson Wide Receiver Northern Colorado
62 Pittsburgh Steelers Bryant McFadden Cornerback Florida State
63 Philadelphia Eagles Matt McCoy Linebacker San Diego State
64 Baltimore Ravens (from New England) Adam Terry Offensive Tackle Syracuse

2006
33 Houston DeMeco Ryans Linebacker Alabama
34 Cleveland (from New Orleans) D'Qwell Jackson Linebacker Maryland
35 Washington (from New York Jets) Rocky McIntosh Linebacker Miami (Florida)
36 New England (from Green Bay) Chad Jackson Wide Receiver Florida
37 Atlanta (from San Francisco via Denver and Green Bay) Jimmy Williams Cornerback Virginia Tech
38 Oakland Thomas Howard Linebacker UTEP
39 Philadelphia (from Tennessee) Winston Justice Offensive Tackle Southern California
40 Detroit Daniel Bullocks Safety Nebraska [11]
41 Arizona Taitusi Lutui Guard Southern California
42 Chicago (from Buffalo) Danieal Manning Safety Abilene Christian
43 New Orleans (from Cleveland) Roman Harper Safety Alabama
44 New York Giants (from Baltimore) Sinorice Moss Wide Receiver Miami (Florida)
45 Tennessee (from Philadelphia) LenDale White Running back USC
46 St. Louis Rams Joe Klopfenstein Tight End Colorado
47 Green Bay (from Atlanta) Daryn Colledge Offensive Tackle Boise State
48 Minnesota Cedric Griffin Cornerback Texas
49 New York Jets (from Dallas) Kellen Clemens Quarterback Oregon
50 San Diego Marcus McNeill Offensive Tackle Auburn
51 Minnesota (from Miami) Ryan Cook Center New Mexico
52 Green Bay (from New England) Greg Jennings Wide Receiver Western Michigan
53 Dallas (from New York Jets) Anthony Fasano Tight End Notre Dame
54 Kansas City Bernard Pollard Safety Purdue
55 Cincinnati Andrew Whitworth Offensive Tackle LSU
56 Baltimore (from New York Giants) Chris Chester Center Oklahoma
57 Chicago Devin Hester Cornerback Miami (Florida)
58 Carolina Richard Marshall Cornerback Fresno State
59 Tampa Bay Jeremy Trueblood Offensive Tackle Boston College
60 Jacksonville Maurice Jones-Drew Running back UCLA
61 Denver Tony Scheffler Tight End Western Michigan
62 Indianapolis Tim Jennings Cornerback Georgia
63 Seattle Darryl Tapp Defensive End Virginia Tech
64 Minnesota (from Pittsburgh) Tarvaris Jackson Quarterback Alabama State

Dicky McElephant
08-05-2010, 06:32 PM
Damnt Mecca.

Mecca
08-05-2010, 06:33 PM
Apparently if you ask you'll receive as 2 of us posted the drafts.

Mecca
08-05-2010, 06:33 PM
Damnt Mecca.

Ah well the point is still sound, there are numerous pro bowl and top notch players on the list.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-05-2010, 06:34 PM
Thanks guys. Now we are talking.

Dicky McElephant
08-05-2010, 06:34 PM
Ah well the point is still sound, there are numerous pro bowl and top notch players on the list.

I don't even think they're arguing about Pro Bowl players. I think they're arguing about the longevity of their careers.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-05-2010, 06:37 PM
They were arguing about longevity and productivity, so I figured post the drafts and see how many of these guys actually meet the criteria.

Deberg_1990
08-05-2010, 07:01 PM
For what its worth, if McCluster turns out to be a Kevin faulk type, id be more than happy. Im pretty sure thats what Pioli envisions...

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-05-2010, 07:12 PM
The 2000 2nd round was pretty meh. A few of the guys are still active as of last year, but a whole lot of turds in that punch bowl. 5 PB combined and some short careers. 1 RIP, a career ending injury, mostly canadian for 1 and arena football for another. Had a quick summary for most of them, but had an error message and lost the post.

chiefzilla1501
08-05-2010, 07:18 PM
Ah well the point is still sound, there are numerous pro bowl and top notch players on the list.

That's easy. Just go to wikipedia. They highlight pro bowlers:

2003 - 5
2004 - 2
2005 - 5
2006 - 4

Not exactly a lot. That's about 15% of second round draft picks. And keep in mind those pro bowlers also include one-hit wonders like Nick Collins and Justin Miller.

Mecca
08-05-2010, 07:27 PM
Uh Nick Collins has been pretty good for a couple years now how's that make him a 1 hit wonder?

chiefzilla1501
08-05-2010, 07:30 PM
Uh Nick Collins has been pretty good for a couple years now how's that make him a 1 hit wonder?

Sorry, for some reason, was thinking of someone else. Point still stands.

Like I said, probably about half turn out to be contributors. Less than 20% turn out to be really good.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-05-2010, 07:33 PM
2001 class was much, much stronger. 11 players making probowls combining for 30 total. Just reading the names and you easily see the difference in the caliber of players between the 2 years.

chiefzilla1501
08-05-2010, 07:37 PM
2001 class was much, much stronger. 11 players making probowls combining for 30 total. Just reading the names and you easily see the difference in the caliber of players between the 2 years.

Yup. But it's the only draft in 10 years to produce more than 5 pro bowlers in the 2nd round.

-King-
08-05-2010, 07:46 PM
Can either mecca or pest delete their post of the 2nd round picks? Its hell trying to go through that on a phone.
Posted via Mobile Device

mlyonsd
08-05-2010, 07:46 PM
If he can keep his body attached to his legs I think he'll be a nice addition. Supposing we have a QB that can hit him that is.

Marcellus
08-05-2010, 08:02 PM
I love how the argument against McCluster has turned to- OK he is likely dynamic and a playmaker but he will only contribute for 5 years or so because of his size.

When he was drafted it was he sucks and won't do shit in the NFL.

I would rather have a dynamic offensive force for 5 years than a solid OT or LB for 8.

Saul Good
08-05-2010, 08:14 PM
Why does anybody care if the guy is productive for more than 6 years? How many players on the Chiefs have been on the team for that long?

If a guy is a very good player for 5-6 years before starting to decline, that's 2 contracts. After that, the odds of him being on our team are slim anyway.

chefsos
08-05-2010, 08:20 PM
I love how the argument against McCluster has turned to- OK he is likely dynamic and a playmaker but he will only contribute for 5 years or so because of his size.

When he was drafted it was he sucks and won't do shit in the NFL.

I would rather have a dynamic offensive force for 5 years than a solid OT or LB for 8.I tend to fall on this side of the debate here. A guy who can be a home run hitter, if for a shorter timespan than a solid long time player at another position, creates excitement and entertainment.

When the playmaker's career is over, I'm sure I'll look at the lineman who we passed over playing for another team, and wish we had that guy rather than the schlub we have. But you can't have everything. Sports in general, when you boil it down, are about entertainment after all.

Chiefaholic
08-05-2010, 08:41 PM
Because he's a high second round pick and we don't have any one behind him with any talent.

But that goes back to why I think it was a bad pick.

You either overuse him and play him out of the league in about 5 years, or he's a part time player.

Neither are good value for the 36th pick in the draft.


When he returns a 90 yard kickoff for a TD, will : "That sure was a wasted pick." go through your head. The kid is a touchdown machine that opposing defenses have to gameplan for. Even if he only averages 4 touches a game, he'll make it easier on everybody else because a playmaker from the opposing defense will be assigned to him.

milkman
08-05-2010, 10:06 PM
I really for the life of me cannot understand why everyone assumes that McCluster is going to be out of the league in 5 years due to his size.

It's not like we're going to hand him the ball and run him into the middle of the line 300 times a season.

he's going to be a slot receiver/trick play back. He's not going to be in there mixing it up with the 300 lb'ers. He's going to be outside, in space.

He's pretty stout; it's not like he's a stick figure. He'll be fine. He's not going to get the big hit because you can't really set up and deliver a big blow on guys like that.

I really don't think it's going to be an issue.

That is also possible.

All I'm saying is that I think you take a bigger risk of selecting a short term player when they are that size, regadless of the position they play, except kicker.

He's going to be in the slot.

LBs and safeties love to lay the wood on slot receivers in the act of catching the ball in the middle of the field when they get the chance.

Anytime you see highlight reel hits, there's almost always a couple of those types in the mix.

-King-
08-05-2010, 10:09 PM
When he returns a 90 yard kickoff for a TD, will : "That sure was a wasted pick." go through your head. The kid is a touchdown machine that opposing defenses have to gameplan for. Even if he only averages 4 touches a game, he'll make it easier on everybody else because a playmaker from the opposing defense will be assigned to him.

I hope he NEVER does that.

milkman
08-05-2010, 10:11 PM
When he returns a 90 yard kickoff for a TD, will : "That sure was a wasted pick." go through your head. The kid is a touchdown machine that opposing defenses have to gameplan for. Even if he only averages 4 touches a game, he'll make it easier on everybody else because a playmaker from the opposing defense will be assigned to him.

Shut the fuck up dumbass.

I've already addressed the same moronacy that you're spewing in this thread.

What a useles fucking bastard you are.

Chiefaholic
08-05-2010, 10:15 PM
Shut the **** up dumbass.

I've already addressed the same moronacy that you're spewing in this thread.

What a useles ****ing bastard you are.

Fuck off you dumb ass cock smoking piece of shit. You're so tied up in your theory that your opinions are facts bullshit, that you actually root for players to get injured or suck so your dumb ass will appear to have a fucking clue.

Coogs
08-05-2010, 10:20 PM
DMC riminds me a lot of this guy from the past...

http://www.nfl.com/players/joewashington/profile?id=WAS440487



We may use him in a different fashion, but overall they have a lot of similarities.

milkman
08-05-2010, 10:23 PM
**** off you dumb ass cock smoking piece of shit. You're so tied up in your theory that your opinions are facts bullshit, that you actually root for players to get injured or suck so your dumb ass will appear to have a ****ing clue.

First, dick face, I've admitted I'm wrong many times and have been happier than hell that I was.

Second, you useless piece of sewer scum, I've said from the day that McCluster was drafted that he has dynamic playmaker potential.

Third, ass licker, I have been right far more than I've been worng, but you can bet you useless dumb ass that this is one time I am rooting my ass off that I'm wrong.

But you go on ahead and keep spewing your useless drivel.

TEX
08-05-2010, 10:33 PM
Whatever - I'm so not buying into any hype. I'm sticking to my opinion that with all their needs, the Chiefs should have gone in s totally different direction in round 2. Absolutely no doubt in my mind.

Deberg_1990
08-05-2010, 10:36 PM
Whatever - I'm so not buying into any hype. I'm sticking to my opinion that with all their needs, the Chiefs should have gone in s totally different direction in round 2. Absolutely no doubt in my mind.

Can u at least wait until the preseason is over with to make such a broad statement? :)

Chiefaholic
08-05-2010, 10:39 PM
First, dick face, I've admitted I'm wrong many times and have been happier than hell that I was.

Second, you useless piece of sewer scum, I've said from the day that McCluster was drafted that he has dynamic playmaker potential.

Third, ass licker, I have been right far more than I've been worng, but you can bet you useless dumb ass that this is one time I am rooting my ass off that I'm wrong.

But you go on ahead and keep spewing your useless drivel.

:rolleyes: Let's hope that you are right and he has a career ending injury in his first preseason game. Is it possible for you to suck more root, GoChiefs gets pretty lonely on the weekends.

-King-
08-05-2010, 10:39 PM
:rolleyes: Let's hope that you are right and he has a career ending injury in his first preseason game. Is it possible for you to suck more root, GoChiefs gets pretty lonely on the weekends.

Dude...stop.

milkman
08-05-2010, 10:43 PM
Whatever - I'm so not buying into any hype. I'm sticking to my opinion that with all their needs, the Chiefs should have gone in s totally different direction in round 2. Absolutely no doubt in my mind.

I'll say this.

If he's the kind of playmaker many (including myself) think he can be, and he gives us 7 good years, and is part of the core that helps get is a SB, then he's a great pick, other needs not withstanding.

greg63
08-05-2010, 10:46 PM
:rolleyes: Let's hope that you are right and he has a career ending injury in his first preseason game. Is it possible for you to suck more root, GoChiefs gets pretty lonely on the weekends.

Dude, your mouth's biting a gorilla!

luv
08-05-2010, 10:51 PM
:rolleyes: Let's hope that you are right and he has a career ending injury in his first preseason game. Is it possible for you to suck more root, GoChiefs gets pretty lonely on the weekends.

Can you provide the quote where he said this please? Until then, kindly shut the fuck up about it and move on.

TheGuardian
08-05-2010, 11:02 PM
Ah well the point is still sound, there are numerous pro bowl and top notch players on the list.

And there are even more nobodies. So you're just proving my point.

DeezNutz
08-05-2010, 11:26 PM
And there are even more nobodies. So you're just proving my point.

That's true of every round of the draft. Doesn't change the fact that teams expect to build their foundation in rounds 1-3. So, yes, they expect long, productive careers from these players.

Unfortunately, shit happens and players don't live up to expectations.

Simply Red
08-05-2010, 11:47 PM
He IS interesting, I always am excited to read Sam Donaldson's work...



http://i36.tinypic.com/2622i6r.jpg

chiefzilla1501
08-06-2010, 12:39 AM
That's true of every round of the draft. Doesn't change the fact that teams expect to build their foundation in rounds 1-3. So, yes, they expect long, productive careers from these players.

Unfortunately, shit happens and players don't live up to expectations.

I think the problem is when people exaggerate how few nobodies there are in the 2nd-3rd round. It's not just a few of these players that will turn into nothing more than serviceable guys. It's a good chunk of them. I'd say about 75% of 2nd rounders and maybe 80% of 3rd rounders.

Even if McCluster is a "gadget" player but he does that very well, is that a whole lot worse than a guy who's not good enough to start every down? Or an average player who starts but is a liability on the field? If McCluster performs very well in the role he's set to play in, he'll be an upgrade over most of the guys picked around him. And my guess is, a lot of players on our target list of players we stupidly passed up on are not going to be impact starters.

DeezNutz
08-06-2010, 12:41 AM
I think the problem is when people exaggerate how few nobodies there are in the 2nd-3rd round. It's not just a few of these players that will turn into nothing more than serviceable guys. It's a good chunk of them. I'd say about 75% of 2nd rounders and maybe 80% of 3rd rounders.

Probably correct.

But, again, this is also true for every round. More misses than hits. Let's hope our "GM of the fucking century" has a clue and is more accurate than the average bear.

TheGuardian
08-06-2010, 07:56 AM
That's true of every round of the draft. Doesn't change the fact that teams expect to build their foundation in rounds 1-3. So, yes, they expect long, productive careers from these players.

Unfortunately, shit happens and players don't live up to expectations.

The expectations from 2nd and 3rd rounders are not the same as your 1st rounders of course. I've never heard a single scout or NFL couch say they expect 10 highly productive seasons from a 2nd rounder, and none of them would. Because that's not what you're going to get from a 2nd rounder MORE TIMES THAN NOT.

Talking about building the foundation of your team around those guys just means they expect those guys to be good enough to be there. 10 years of high level of play? That's one of the dumbest and funniest things I've ever read on here.

MOhillbilly
08-06-2010, 08:59 AM
Know alot of NFL coaches & scouts do ya? Talk to em often?

fucking momo.

BigMeatballDave
08-06-2010, 09:07 AM
Whatever - I'm so not buying into any hype. I'm sticking to my opinion that with all their needs, the Chiefs should have gone in s totally different direction in round 2. Absolutely no doubt in my mind.http://jiveturkey.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/debbie_downer.jpg

TheGuardian
08-06-2010, 09:15 AM
Know alot of NFL coaches & scouts do ya? Talk to em often?

****ing momo.

No NFL coach or scout has ever told you they expect a decade of high level of play from their second round picks. If they did, they are out of touch with what the MAJORITY of second round picks generally give you. You've sounded like a moron through this whole thing.

MOhillbilly
08-06-2010, 09:26 AM
No NFL coach or scout has ever told you they expect a decade of high level of play from their second round picks. If they did, they are out of touch with what the MAJORITY of second round picks generally give you. You've sounded like a moron through this whole thing.

i can assure you that you dont know wtf you are talking about. You are so ignorant its fuckin silly.
you are so friggin retarded that from my perspective you have the FB IQ of one who reads sporting news, listens to talk radio and has NEVER EVER been able to pick the brains of any scout or coaches in the NFL much less for 20 years.
eatshit and die fucktard.

Again this is why some of us dont ever,ever, bring shit up that we hear on this BB.
Cause silly fuckin bitchtards like this noob think they know everything.
eat shit.

mmmm, feel better.

Marcellus
08-06-2010, 09:35 AM
I think the problem is when people exaggerate how few nobodies there are in the 2nd-3rd round. It's not just a few of these players that will turn into nothing more than serviceable guys. It's a good chunk of them. I'd say about 75% of 2nd rounders and maybe 80% of 3rd rounders.

Even if McCluster is a "gadget" player but he does that very well, is that a whole lot worse than a guy who's not good enough to start every down? Or an average player who starts but is a liability on the field? If McCluster performs very well in the role he's set to play in, he'll be an upgrade over most of the guys picked around him. And my guess is, a lot of players on our target list of players we stupidly passed up on are not going to be impact starters.

Because Berry was taken in the 1st and nobody can come close to justifying a complaint about that, McCluster becomes the obvious target of the draftabaters.

It's all just something to complain about. So far McCluster has as much hype as any rookie in football regardless of the pick, yet there are still complaints about the pick.

Who else picked in the 2nd round is getting as much coverage or talk? When was the last time you were this impressed with a Chief's offensive rookie? Bowe? Who we drafted in the 1st round?

-King-
08-06-2010, 09:45 AM
If anyone wouldnt take 5 years of high play from a 2nd rnd pick, they're crazy.
Posted via Mobile Device

philfree
08-06-2010, 09:56 AM
If they expect a highly productive 10 years from the 2nd rounders then they must be awfully disappointed in their batting avg. Same goes for 1st rounders. That may be what they say they want but it's not realistic at all.


PhilFree:arrow:

OnTheWarpath58
08-06-2010, 10:08 AM
Because Berry was taken in the 1st and nobody can come close to justifying a complaint about that, McCluster becomes the obvious target of the draftabaters.

It's all just something to complain about. So far McCluster has as much hype as any rookie in football regardless of the pick, yet there are still complaints about the pick.

Who else picked in the 2nd round is getting as much coverage or talk? When was the last time you were this impressed with a Chief's offensive rookie? Bowe? Who we drafted in the 1st round?

The sad thing is, you and others actually believe this.

Probably because you've found it's easier to argue against particular posters rather than their actual posts.

If all we were looking to do was complain, why did we praise the Asomoah pick? Hell, I like that pick almost as much as the Berry pick. No doubt in my mind he'll be a 10 year, solid starter for us.

Why did we praise Pioli for getting everyone into camp on time?

Why do some of us defend Bowe and Carr from the true fans that want to run them out of town?

If I've said it once, I've said it a million times - regarding McCluster or any other aspect of this organization that I've disagreed with - I HOPE LIKE HELL THEY PROVE ME WRONG.

Dexter is getting hype. In training camp. In shorts and shells. Great.

Hype and a buck will get you a cup of coffee.

You know why the folks that are upset with the pick are upset. But you can't argue that fixing the front 7/run defense was less important than getting a part time, undersized player at a position of lessor need. A front 7 player along with Bowe, Chambers and Urban would have done more to help this team win than Dexter and the same shitty run defense.

I hope the kid has a fantastic rookie year. If he does, however, it's likely going to be overshadowed by the fact that we can't stop the run - again.

This team will not win games consistently until they can stop the run.

Consistently.

And that's not going to happen by avoiding that area in the draft, when there are solid players there for the taking.

OnTheWarpath58
08-06-2010, 10:13 AM
If anyone wouldnt take 5 years of high play from a 2nd rnd pick, they're crazy.
Posted via Mobile Device

I'll take 10 years of a player like Lamar Woodley, Rey Maualuga, Brandon Flowers or DeMeco Ryans over 5 years of a player like McCluster every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

-King-
08-06-2010, 10:13 AM
The sad thing is, you and others actually believe this.

Probably because you've found it's easier to argue against particular posters rather than their actual posts.

If all we were looking to do was complain, why did we praise the Asomoah pick? Hell, I like that pick almost as much as the Berry pick. No doubt in my mind he'll be a 10 year, solid starter for us.

Why did we praise Pioli for getting everyone into camp on time?

Why do some of us defend Bowe and Carr from the true fans that want to run them out of town?

If I've said it once, I've said it a million times - regarding McCluster or any other aspect of this organization that I've disagreed with - I HOPE LIKE HELL THEY PROVE ME WRONG.

Dexter is getting hype. In training camp. In shorts and shells. Great.

Hype and a buck will get you a cup of coffee.

You know why the folks that are upset with the pick are upset. But you can't argue that fixing the front 7/run defense was less important than getting a part time, undersized player at a position of lessor need. A front 7 player along with Bowe, Chambers and Urban would have done more to help this team win than Dexter and the same shitty run defense.

I hope the kid has a fantastic rookie year. If he does, however, it's likely going to be overshadowed by the fact that we can't stop the run - again.

This team will not win games consistently until they can stop the run.

Consistently.

And that's not going to happen by avoiding that area in the draft, when there are solid players there for the taking.


And you wont win without playmakers.
Posted via Mobile Device

Rausch
08-06-2010, 10:14 AM
Dexter is getting hype. In training camp. In shorts and shells. Great.

Hype and a buck will get you a cup of coffee.

Fuck yeah!

Jesse (who the fuck was he again?) Haynes hype time...

DeezNutz
08-06-2010, 10:15 AM
I've blown out four pairs of slippers reading this thread.

Deberg_1990
08-06-2010, 10:16 AM
This team will not win games consistently until they can stop the run.

Consistently.



well that....but the primary reason will be a QB who can play consistent and solidly.

Rausch
08-06-2010, 10:22 AM
well that....but the primary reason will be a QB who can play consistent and solidly.

Bull$#it.

We won 13 games with both Bono and Girlbac.

You can win games with fucking Kordell Stewart, Jeff George, and guys who played in the XFL.

Now, the Lombardi is a whole 'nother ball of wax...

OnTheWarpath58
08-06-2010, 10:22 AM
And you wont win without playmakers.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yeah, JC is just chopped liver.

Even with a shitty QB, this team scored 18.4 PPG - or .5 a game less than the Bengals, who made the playoffs - because they had a solid defense.

Add Weis and a full year of Chambers, and there's no reason not to think they couldn't hit the 21-22 PPG mark - at least.

That's usually good for a ranking around 13-16. Good enough to win consistently in this league.

But not when the other team can run at will on you.

Rausch
08-06-2010, 10:24 AM
Having a legitimate OC and DC alone will work wonders for this team.

Haley is a fucking idiot and we've had nothing but idiots at DC for nearly a decade...

OnTheWarpath58
08-06-2010, 10:25 AM
I've blown out four pairs of slippers reading this thread.

LMAO

DeezNutz
08-06-2010, 10:26 AM
Having a legitimate OC and DC alone will work wonders for this team.


I understand what you're saying. I do.

But how many times have we heard this?

OnTheWarpath58
08-06-2010, 10:26 AM
Having a legitimate OC and DC alone will work wonders for this team.

Haley is a fucking idiot and we've had nothing but idiots at DC for nearly a decade...

I wouldn't say Haley is an idiot, I just think he couldn't handle everything he was trying to handle last year.

Plus, he outsmarted himself a few times, trying to make up for a lack of talent, and it backfired.

OnTheWarpath58
08-06-2010, 10:27 AM
I understand what you're saying. I do.

But how many times have we heard this?

I think they will make a difference, especially Weis.

But nowhere near enough of a difference. You still have to have talent.

DeezNutz
08-06-2010, 10:30 AM
I think they will make a difference, especially Weis.

But nowhere near enough of a difference. You still have to have talent.

Absolutely.

If Pioli takes an impressive shit in the FO, there is only so many times Weis can run around the room spraying cologne and lighting matches until the smell of ****ing shit creeps out in all its glory.

And people will say, "What's wrong with Weis?!?"

Look, people, Mr. Hankey is playing QB.

Rausch
08-06-2010, 10:32 AM
I wouldn't say Haley is an idiot, I just think he couldn't handle everything he was trying to handle last year.

You're right, I should retract that.

Haley is actually a very intelligent man. He is, and I honestly believe that.

I just think he lets his emotions override his decision making. He's the boxer that gets hit with that one big punch and just starts wailing wild.

He's got a horrible temper and he's stubborn as an ox.

As a good German these are qualities I admire...










...until you fail.

Rausch
08-06-2010, 10:35 AM
I wouldn't say Haley is an idiot, I just think he couldn't handle everything he was trying to handle last year.

Plus, he outsmarted himself a few times, trying to make up for a lack of talent, and it backfired.

I think Gailey would have been the best friend he could have had last year (with a history of polishing turds going way back.)

I'm sure they disagreed and Haley was boss.

The end.

I hate it happened. I think Haley took the Gunther "More of ME equals more wins" mindset and got lost in the process.

philfree
08-06-2010, 10:38 AM
I worry about putting all of the eggs in this 175lb 5'8 guy's basket...

How are they putting all their eggs in one basket? He's one player and I doubt they expext him to win every game by himself.

PhilFree:arrow:

Deberg_1990
08-06-2010, 10:40 AM
Bull$#it.

We won 13 games with both Bono and Girlbac.

You can win games with ****ing Kordell Stewart, Jeff George, and guys who played in the XFL.

Now, the Lombardi is a whole 'nother ball of wax...

Solid point.....but even those guys played ok for a season or two.

Our Qb play the last few years has been below average at best.

Rausch
08-06-2010, 10:44 AM
Solid point.....but even those guys played ok for a season or two.

Our Qb play the last few years has been below average at best.

That's my point.

You can make a complete douche look decent in the regular season. A great defense or offensive line can carry you to 10 0r 11 wins.

Look at Scott Mitchell, Kordell Stewart, Bono, Girlbac, Rich Gannon, Or that bald guy who was in Seattle who backed up Favre forever...


But to chin-up and grit it out to win after the new year?


That's when you find out who's got what...

Deberg_1990
08-06-2010, 10:52 AM
That's my point.

You can make a complete douche look decent in the regular season. A great defense or offensive line can carry you to 10 0r 11 wins.

Look at Scott Mitchell, Kordell Stewart, Bono, Girlbac, Rich Gannon, Or that bald guy who was in Seattle who backed up Favre forever...


But to chin-up and grit it out to win after the new year?


That's when you find out who's got what...\

Agreed. Unfortunately, I think Cassels upside is closer to Bono/Gannon/Grbac than Manning, Brees, Roethlisberger and Brady.

Reerun_KC
08-06-2010, 10:53 AM
\

Agreed. Unfortunately, I think Cassels upside is closer to Bono/Gannon/Grbac than Manning, Brees, Roethlisberger and Brady.

:banghead:

philfree
08-06-2010, 11:05 AM
The sad thing is, you and others actually believe this.

Probably because you've found it's easier to argue against particular posters rather than their actual posts.

If all we were looking to do was complain, why did we praise the Asomoah pick? Hell, I like that pick almost as much as the Berry pick. No doubt in my mind he'll be a 10 year, solid starter for us.

Why did we praise Pioli for getting everyone into camp on time?

Why do some of us defend Bowe and Carr from the true fans that want to run them out of town?

If I've said it once, I've said it a million times - regarding McCluster or any other aspect of this organization that I've disagreed with - I HOPE LIKE HELL THEY PROVE ME WRONG.

Dexter is getting hype. In training camp. In shorts and shells. Great.

Hype and a buck will get you a cup of coffee.

You know why the folks that are upset with the pick are upset. But you can't argue that fixing the front 7/run defense was less important than getting a part time, undersized player at a position of lessor need. A front 7 player along with Bowe, Chambers and Urban would have done more to help this team win than Dexter and the same shitty run defense.

I hope the kid has a fantastic rookie year. If he does, however, it's likely going to be overshadowed by the fact that we can't stop the run - again.

This team will not win games consistently until they can stop the run.

Consistently.

And that's not going to happen by avoiding that area in the draft, when there are solid players there for the taking.

Our front 7 has four 1st rounders in it. There comes a point where you have to get production from guys like that. If you can't then what would make one think you could get production from another high draft pick who plays in the front 7?

Is just throwing high draft picks at the front 7 really the answer?

PhilFree:arrow:

OnTheWarpath58
08-06-2010, 11:08 AM
Our front 7 has four 1st rounders in it. There comes a point where you have to get production from guys like that. If you can't then what would make one think you could get production from another high draft pick who plays in the front 7?

Is just throwing high draft picks at the front 7 really the answer?

PhilFree:arrow:

3 of those players were picks made by another regime, running a different scheme.

You're asking to get 1st round production in a 34 defense from guys that were drafted to play in, and are best suited for, a 43 defense.

philfree
08-06-2010, 11:16 AM
3 of those players were picks made by another regime, running a different scheme.

You're asking to get 1st round production in a 34 defense from guys that were drafted to play in, and are best suited for, a 43 defense.

Dorsey and Hali seem to have made the adjustment without to much trouble. DJ is working his tail off to make the adjustment and seems to be improved too.

Time will tell I guess.


PhilFree:arrow:

OnTheWarpath58
08-06-2010, 11:22 AM
Dorsey and Hali seem to have made the adjustment without to much trouble. DJ is working his tail off to make the adjustment and seems to be improved too.

Time will tell I guess.


PhilFree:arrow:

I'd love to know how you came to that conclusion.

Neither is playing anywhere near the level of their draft slot.

philfree
08-06-2010, 03:09 PM
I'd love to know how you came to that conclusion.

Neither is playing anywhere near the level of their draft slot.

By watching them play last year and then reading the camp reports and listening to the press conferences. They still need to keep improving but those two have done better then they get credit for.

Draft slot? Those guys have 1st round talent and it's our coaches job to get it out of them. If they can't then most likely adding another high draft pick would just be another wasted pick.

PhilFree:arrow:

OnTheWarpath58
08-06-2010, 03:20 PM
By watching them play last year and then reading the camp reports and listening to the press conferences. They still need to keep improving but those two have done better then they get credit for.

Draft slot? Those guys have 1st round talent and it's our coaches job to get it out of them. If they can't then most likely adding another high draft pick would just be another wasted pick.

PhilFree:arrow:

They have 1st round talent in a DIFFERENT SCHEME.

Actually, it's questionable that Hali has 1st round talent even in a 43.

philfree
08-06-2010, 03:40 PM
They have 1st round talent in a DIFFERENT SCHEME.

Actually, it's questionable that Hali has 1st round talent even in a 43.

It's just my opinion but I think Hali is better in the 3-4 then he was in the 4-3. I think he improves this year as compared to last. Time will tell.

Hali didn't just have a boring 8 sacks either last year. He recorded a game icing saftey and he caused fumbles and a at least one INT. Those were big time plays that get overshadowed by such a crappy season. We start putting more points on the board and those type plays will mean much more.


The McCluster pick didn't fit in the box for some fans I guess. He's not prototype and when it comes to the draft most people think inside the box about players and they want prototype players. I do it myself but in this case I see them thinking outside the box and drafting a special player as oppossed to a prototype. I kinda like it.:shrug:


PhilFree:arrow:

beach tribe
08-06-2010, 04:31 PM
Yes he was.

And just like Sam Bradford, he packed on some weight pre-combine that he'll never keep on - especially once the season starts.

The Chiefs list him at 170, and teams are notorious for fudging those numbers.

He'll be lucky to sustain 170 for the season.

But for the sake of conversation, I'll give you 175, and that he sustains it the entire season.

I'm still wondering who you can refer to that had a long and productive career at 175 or under, in this era.

Marvin Harrison was 6' 185. And I guarantee he wouldn't press 225, 20 times in an hr.

chiefzilla1501
08-06-2010, 04:33 PM
The sad thing is, you and others actually believe this.

Probably because you've found it's easier to argue against particular posters rather than their actual posts.

If all we were looking to do was complain, why did we praise the Asomoah pick? Hell, I like that pick almost as much as the Berry pick. No doubt in my mind he'll be a 10 year, solid starter for us.

Why did we praise Pioli for getting everyone into camp on time?

Why do some of us defend Bowe and Carr from the true fans that want to run them out of town?

If I've said it once, I've said it a million times - regarding McCluster or any other aspect of this organization that I've disagreed with - I HOPE LIKE HELL THEY PROVE ME WRONG.

Dexter is getting hype. In training camp. In shorts and shells. Great.

Hype and a buck will get you a cup of coffee.

You know why the folks that are upset with the pick are upset. But you can't argue that fixing the front 7/run defense was less important than getting a part time, undersized player at a position of lessor need. A front 7 player along with Bowe, Chambers and Urban would have done more to help this team win than Dexter and the same shitty run defense.

I hope the kid has a fantastic rookie year. If he does, however, it's likely going to be overshadowed by the fact that we can't stop the run - again.

This team will not win games consistently until they can stop the run.

Consistently.

And that's not going to happen by avoiding that area in the draft, when there are solid players there for the taking.

In a magical fairy tale world where you can draft players at high positional value with no risk in the second round, yes. We all know we had to get better in the front 7. But you completely disregard the fact that drafting a really good high positional value player past the first round is hard, hard, hard.

If you're building a foundation, do you gamble on a guy who has about an 80+% chance of being nothing more than an average starter at best? Of course if there's a guaranteed pass rusher or nose tackle, then I'd take him in a heartbeat. But the reason why most of those players fell to the second round is because the risk of a Sergio Kindle is significantly higher than a player like Brandon Graham.

beach tribe
08-06-2010, 04:33 PM
It's just my opinion but I think Hali is better in the 3-4 then he was in the 4-3. I think he improves this year as compared to last. Time will tell.

Hali didn't just have a boring 8 sacks either last year. He recorded a game icing saftey and he caused fumbles and a at least one INT. Those were big time plays that get overshadowed by such a crappy season. We start putting more points on the board and those type plays will mean much more.


The McCluster pick didn't fit in the box for some fans I guess. He's not prototype and when it comes to the draft most people think inside the box about players and they want prototype players. I do it myself but in this case I see them thinking outside the box and drafting a special player as oppossed to a prototype. I kinda like it.:shrug:


PhilFree:arrow:

He, very much to my surprise, played much better in the 3-4 than 4-3.
He was absolutely non existent at RE.

OnTheWarpath58
08-06-2010, 04:34 PM
Marvin Harrison was 6' 185. And I guarantee he wouldn't press 225, 20 times in an hr.

Thanks for the comparison to someone that outweighed Dexter by 15 pounds and had 100X the natural talent as a WR.

Now, does anyone want to provide an example of someone sub-175 that had a long and productive career in this era? Hell, I'm being generous and giving Dex an extra 5 pounds.

Anyone?

OnTheWarpath58
08-06-2010, 04:38 PM
In a magical fairy tale world where you can draft players at high positional value with no risk in the second round, yes. We all know we had to get better in the front 7. But you completely disregard the fact that drafting a really good high positional value player past the first round is hard, hard, hard.

If you're building a foundation, do you gamble on a guy who has about an 80+% chance of being nothing more than an average starter at best? Of course if there's a guaranteed pass rusher or nose tackle, then I'd take him in a heartbeat. But the reason why most of those players fell to the second round is because the risk of a Sergio Kindle is significantly higher than a player like Brandon Graham.

The entire draft is a risk, not just the second round.

It's amazing to me that people have already claimed McCluster is a superstar when he hasn't played a down, and players like Cody, Kindle and Daryl Washington have, in your words, less than a 20% chance of being better than average?

Mecca
08-06-2010, 04:41 PM
Tamba Hali has become the most overrated Chief in I dunno how long. When you defend the run like Deion Sanders you better get more than 8 fucking sacks.

Jethopper
08-06-2010, 04:47 PM
Tamba Hali has become the most overrated Chief in I dunno how long. When you defend the run like Deion Sanders you better get more than 8 ****ing sacks.

We didn't draft Cushing. Let it go.

OnTheWarpath58
08-06-2010, 04:49 PM
Tamba Hali has become the most overrated Chief in I dunno how long. When you defend the run like Deion Sanders you better get more than 8 fucking sacks.

Even if rushing the passer was his ONLY job, he'd still be average at it.

18th in the league in sacks in 2009.

106th in the league in sacks in 2008.

29th in 2007.

26th in 2006.

Mecca
08-06-2010, 04:52 PM
We didn't draft Cushing. Let it go.

Considering they wouldn't be playing the same position how is that even an argument?

Blick
08-06-2010, 07:02 PM
Thanks for the comparison to someone that outweighed Dexter by 15 pounds and had 100X the natural talent as a WR.

Now, does anyone want to provide an example of someone sub-175 that had a long and productive career in this era? Hell, I'm being generous and giving Dex an extra 5 pounds.

Anyone?

How 'bout Samari Rolle, 6'0" 175?

Marcellus
08-06-2010, 07:08 PM
Tamba Hali has become the most overrated Chief in I dunno how long. When you defend the run like Deion Sanders you better get more than 8 ****ing sacks.

What? Ha. You remember Brokie Croyle? The Brokie with his ZERO wins and 8 that's right 8 career TD passes to go with 8 ints. I think Brokie kills Hali in the overrated department.

TEX
03-18-2011, 05:07 PM
Can u at least wait until the preseason is over with to make such a broad statement? :)


Ok - the season is way over. And I still stand by my statement. I have nothing against Dexter, the point was that they had too many needs to draft MccLuster when they did. They needed to draft a full time player in round 2.