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Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 03:01 PM
Okay this is funny.. My son and I downloaded this movie about 3 months ago and watched it... Nice to see they are on top of things...

Dear Customer,
This message is to advise that Cox Communications has received a notice claiming that you are using your Cox High Speed Internet service to post or transmit material in violation of U.S. Copyright law. We have included a copy of the complaint, which identifies the party raising it and the material claimed to be infringing.
We ask that you review the complaint and, if it is valid, promptly remove or disable access to the infringing material. If you disagree with the claims in the notice, you should contact the sender, and not Cox, to resolve the matter.
As an Internet Service Provider, Cox is responsible, under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA"), to advise when we receive a notice asserting infringement by you. We are also required to take appropriate action if further claims are received that you do not resolve.
The material that you post or share online is your responsibility. Cox encourages responsible Internet use, but we do not monitor nor control the information you share. We have a duty, however, to take progressive steps when we received complaints of infringement.
If we continue to receive infringement claims such as this one, concerning your use of our service, we will suspend your account and disable your Internet connection until you confirm you have removed the infringing material.
To learn more about your responsibilities concerning copyrighted material, please refer to our help article at:
http://support.cox.com/sdccommon/asp/contentredirect.asp?sprt_cid=81c4f03a-42ba-4de7-92da-4c6448f22d05
http://www.respectcopyrights.org/
http://www.riaa.com/ispnoticefaq.php - (General information about DMCA notices)
If you would like to reply to this email, please keep the subject line intact for tracking purposes.
Sincerely,
Cox Customer Security
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Notice ID: 22-94125217
Notice Date: 4 Aug 2010 20:33:17 GMT
Cox Communications Inc.
Dear Sir or Madam:
BayTSP, Inc. ("BayTSP") swears under penalty of perjury that Paramount Pictures Corporation/Dreamworks Animation SKG, Inc. ("Paramount/Dreamworks") has authorized BayTSP to act as its non-exclusive agent for copyright infringement notification. BayTSP's search of the protocol listed below has detected infringements of Paramount/Dreamworks' copyright interests on your IP addresses as detailed in the below report.
BayTSP has reasonable good faith belief that use of the material in the manner complained of in the below report is not authorized by Paramount/Dreamworks, its agents, or the law. The information provided herein is accurate to the best of our knowledge. Therefore, this letter is an official notification to effect removal of the detected infringement listed in the below report. The below documentation specifies the exact location of the
We hereby request that you immediately remove or block access to the infringing material, as specified in the copyright laws, and insure the user refrains from using or sharing with others unauthorized Paramount/Dreamworks' materials in the future (see, 17 U.S.C. 512).
Further, we believe that the entire Internet community benefits when these matters are resolved cooperatively. We urge you to take immediate action to stop this infringing activity and inform us of the results of your actions. We appreciate your efforts toward this common goal.
Please respond indicating the actions you have taken to resolve this matter. The provided link has been assigned to this matter. http://webreply.baytsp.com/webreply/webreply.jsp?customerid=22&commhash=9f1d67f6623948d90320a281a16c618a
For email correspondence, please reference the above Notice ID in the subject line. mailtoaramount@copyright-compliance.com?subject=RE%3A%20Notice%20ID%3A%2022%2D94125217%20Notice%20of%20Unauthorized%20Use%20o f%20Paramount%20Pictures%20Corporation%2FDreamworks%20Animation%20SKG%2C%20Inc%2E%20Property
Nothing in this letter shall serve as a waiver of any rights or remedies of Paramount/Dreamworks with respect to the alleged infringement, all of which are expressly reserved. Should you need to contact me, I may be reached at the below address.
Regards,
Mark Ishikawa
Chief Executive Officer
BayTSP, Inc.
PO Box 1314
Los Gatos, CA 95031
v: 408-341-2305
f: 408-341-2399
paramount@copyright-compliance.com
*pgp public key is available on the key server at http://pgp.mit.edu
Note: The information transmitted in this Notice is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers.
This infringement notice contains an XML tag that can be used to automate the processing of this data. If you would like more information on how to use this tag please contact BayTSP.
Evidentiary Information:
Notice ID: 22-94125217
Initial Infringement Timestamp: 4 Aug 2010 18:15:32 GMT
Recent Infringement Timestamp: 4 Aug 2010 18:15:32 GMT
Infringers IP Address: 68.12.209.193
Protocol: BitTorrent
Infringed Work: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen
Infringing File Name: Transformers 2 Revenge Of The Fallen DVDRip XviD-MAXSPEED
Infringing File Size: 1469734654
Bay ID: 19abc3ebf9ca970b72520f4eb430d93e340b368e|1469734654
Port ID: 52080
Infringer's DNS Name: ip68-12-209-193.ok.ok.cox.net
Infringer's User Name:
http://www.movielabs.com/ACNS http://www.movielabs.com/ACNS/ACNS2v1.xsd" xmlns="http://www.movielabs.com/ACNS" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
94125217
Open
BayTSP, Inc. on behalf of Paramount Pictures
Compliance Manager, Compliance Team
P.O. Box 1314, Los Gatos, California 95031 United States of America
(408) 341-2300,(408) 341-2399
paramount@copyright-compliance.com>
Cox Communications Inc.
abuse@cox.net>
2010-08-04T18:15:32.000Z
68.12.209.193
52080
ip68-12-209-193.ok.ok.cox.net
BitTorrent

1
No
2010-08-04T18:15:32.000Z

Transformers 2 Revenge Of The Fallen DVDRip XviD-MAXSPEED
1469734654
- ---End ACNS XML
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 8.0
iEYEARECAAYFAkxZzxEACgkQ9Y9NMGKi0WhvEQCeN7/8TIrklJQ04IkYTUgHP0Au
2UcAn1i0ZZq/yE5ThlDiDUvEhJI/cPNA
=Dygc
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

dirk digler
08-04-2010, 03:02 PM
You are in trouble now

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 03:03 PM
You are in trouble now

:huh:

What do I do?

Consistent1
08-04-2010, 03:04 PM
It seems wacky, but I would be careful. You don't want to get used as an example.

Reaper16
08-04-2010, 03:04 PM
This is basically a cease and desist first warning. I got one of these from Mediacom a few weeks ago. Just stop sharing the file and from now on use Peer Block (http://www.peerblock.com/) when you're using a bit torrent client.

Toadkiller
08-04-2010, 03:05 PM
Tell them it was a shit movie and you are going to sue them for allowing you to watch it.

DaneMcCloud
08-04-2010, 03:05 PM
:huh:

What do I do?

If you illegally downloaded a movie and Cox has provided your IP to Paramount, you may be sued for damages.

The movie studios aren't handling piracy like the music business did in the 90's. They mean business and will prosecute.

wutamess
08-04-2010, 03:05 PM
Uninstall or turn off Limewire. Your son is likely the idget in this one. Turn off Limewire and you should be good.

Oh yeah. Erase the movie.

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 03:06 PM
This is basically a cease and desist first warning. I got one of these from Mediacom a few weeks ago. Just stop sharing the file and from now on use Peer Block (http://www.peerblock.com/) when you're using a bit torrent client.

Yeah I downloaded a file today and when I opened up bitcomet, it started uploaded files... So I stopped all outbound traffic from it...

I will check out peer block.

allen_kcCard
08-04-2010, 03:06 PM
Tell them you were just testing them to make sure they were ready for someone dowloading things illegally though their service. Give them a virtual slap on the back, tell them they did a good job, and that they can pass on word that you downloaded the movie and deleted once running your piracy preparedness test for them.

DMAC
08-04-2010, 03:07 PM
Just thieve it from walmart. Much easier...

What? Are those old fucks gonna chase you?? ROFL

Short Leash Hootie
08-04-2010, 03:07 PM
who the fuck...

A) uses limewire (frostwire is much better) and
B) downloads movies using either one?

Cheese and rice guys...cheese and rice.

DaneMcCloud
08-04-2010, 03:08 PM
Why not just pay $3.99 for PPV?

Or better yet, pay $8.99 for Netflix?

Brock
08-04-2010, 03:08 PM
It'll probably only cost you about 50k to resolve it.

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 03:09 PM
If you illegally downloaded a movie and Cox has provided your IP to Paramount, you may be sued for damages.

The movie studios aren't handling piracy like the music business did in the 90's. They mean business and will prosecute.


the day I downloaded it there were 16000 peers sending it out... Are they going after all 16000?

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 03:11 PM
Why not just pay $3.99 for PPV?

Or better yet, pay $8.99 for Netflix?

Watched it when it opened at the imax, my son and I watched it on PPV when it came out... he wanted for our vacation so I grabbed it off of the net...

They can get bent.....

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 03:11 PM
It'll probably only cost you about 50k to resolve it.

Can I borrow a few $'s?

DaneMcCloud
08-04-2010, 03:12 PM
the day I downloaded it there were 16000 peers sending it out... Are they going after all 16000?

It's easier to track and fine the individuals that are illegally downloading using static ip addresses than it is to chase and track down the peers that continually change their ip's.

Brock
08-04-2010, 03:13 PM
Watched it when it opened at the imax, my son and I watched it on PPV when it came out... he wanted for our vacation so I grabbed it off of the net...

They can get bent.....

Heh. They have a thousand Century City attorneys to buttfuck you with.

DaneMcCloud
08-04-2010, 03:13 PM
Watched it when it opened at the imax, my son and I watched it on PPV when it came out... he wanted for our vacation so I grabbed it off of the net...

They can get bent.....

So, since you watched in the theater and on PPV, you suddenly have the right to own an illegal copy?

How does that work?

DaFace
08-04-2010, 03:14 PM
Is the movie still on your computer? If so, the complaint is probably not that you downloaded it, but that you are uploading it. In many cases, BitTorrent clients will continue to upload whatever files you've downloaded in the past until you remove them manually.

I'd recommend toasting the file ASAP and being more careful from now on. Hopefully this will be the last you hear of it.

OnTheWarpath58
08-04-2010, 03:15 PM
who the fuck...

A) uses limewire (frostwire is much better) and
B) downloads movies using either one?

Cheese and rice guys...cheese and rice.

Check your PM's.

MOhillbilly
08-04-2010, 03:16 PM
you are goin to jail.

OnTheWarpath58
08-04-2010, 03:19 PM
you are goin to jail.

Jail? Try prison.

And he's not going to white-collar resort prison. No, no, no. He's going to federal POUND HIM IN THE ASS prison.

http://www.mediabistro.com/prnewser/original/url.jpg

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 03:21 PM
So, since you watched in the theater and on PPV, you suddenly have the right to own an illegal copy?

How does that work?

I dont know... It just does...

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 03:21 PM
Jail? Try prison.

And he's not going to white-collar resort prison. No, no, no. He's going to federal POUND HIM IN THE ASS prison.

http://www.mediabistro.com/prnewser/original/url.jpg

Will you come and visit me?

OnTheWarpath58
08-04-2010, 03:21 PM
Will you come and visit me?

No.

TrickyNicky
08-04-2010, 03:22 PM
Torrents are old hat. Its all about splitting the files in numerous rapidshare/hotfile/depositfile/megaupload accounts. They can't shut them down fast enough to keep up.

blaise
08-04-2010, 03:22 PM
That's crazy. I can't believe people watched Transformers 2.

ChiTown
08-04-2010, 03:23 PM
Generally speaking, I would try and avoid shit that is knowingly illegal.

Your welcome.:D

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 03:23 PM
I tried to call the number.... Couldnt get anyone to talk....

Rooster
08-04-2010, 03:24 PM
Sounds like Herm turned you in.

Reaper16
08-04-2010, 03:25 PM
I tried to call the number.... Couldnt get anyone to talk....
Oh, shit no. Don't talk to anyone. Don't even think about admitting guilt in this to anyone in any official capacity, even saying it was your kid's fault or anything. Deny, deny, deny.

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 03:25 PM
Sounds like Herm turned you in.

Most likely.


I find it pretty comical.

dirk digler
08-04-2010, 03:26 PM
:huh:

What do I do?

You apparently downloaded a copyrighted movie which is illegal and got busted.

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 03:26 PM
Oh, shit no. Don't talk to anyone. Don't even think about admitting guilt in this to anyone in any official capacity, even saying it was your kid's fault or anything. Deny, deny, deny.

I was going to deny it, and accuse them of probing my IP without authorization...

That is sexual harrassment.

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 03:27 PM
You apparently downloaded a copyrighted movie which is illegal and got busted.

I am not worried.


I was being sarcastic. And it wasnt from downloading the file, which was done months ago.... They are late to that party....

dirk digler
08-04-2010, 03:28 PM
Oh, shit no. Don't talk to anyone. Don't even think about admitting guilt in this to anyone in any official capacity, even saying it was your kid's fault or anything. Deny, deny, deny.

Yep.

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 03:29 PM
Time to start spoofing IP's on the firewall...

dirk digler
08-04-2010, 03:29 PM
I am not worried.


I was being sarcastic. And it wasnt from downloading the file, which was done months ago.... They are late to that party....

Ok as others have suggested don't let the movie upload. Which means you will be a leech but at least you won't get caught. And use Peer Blocker or Peer Guardian (which I use) and you should be fine.

seclark
08-04-2010, 03:30 PM
i get notes from my boss all the time anymore, asking "who's using this ip?". don't know what they do w/the info i send back to them. i assumed we sent some kind of warning letter.
sec

KC native
08-04-2010, 03:30 PM
Oh, shit no. Don't talk to anyone. Don't even think about admitting guilt in this to anyone in any official capacity, even saying it was your kid's fault or anything. Deny, deny, deny.

This. Even when caught red handed.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bEovJYZsiDY&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bEovJYZsiDY&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

MOhillbilly
08-04-2010, 03:31 PM
Jail? Try prison.

And he's not going to white-collar resort prison. No, no, no. He's going to federal POUND HIM IN THE ASS prison.

http://www.mediabistro.com/prnewser/original/url.jpg

http://img.alibaba.com/photo/50386377/Seamless_Black_Steel_Pipe.jpg

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 03:32 PM
Ok as others have suggested don't let the movie upload. Which means you will be a leech but at least you won't get caught. And use Peer Blocker or Peer Guardian (which I use) and you should be fine.

Agreed, it was an accident on my part... I wasnt paying attention to it when I was downloading firefox through bitcomet.

Consistent1
08-04-2010, 03:33 PM
I was going to deny it, and accuse them of probing my IP without authorization...

That is sexual harrassment.

Don't even get in the position to deny it like Reaper said. Just be careful with what you do from now on and act like it never happened. Maybe introduce the boy to pron, you shouldn't get hassled there. Plus it will teach him to respect women. hahaha.

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 03:36 PM
Don't even get in the position to deny it like Reaper said. Just be careful with what you do from now on and act like it never happened. Maybe introduce the boy to pron, you shouldn't get hassled there. Plus it will teach him to respect women. hahaha.

I disabled and blocked all leaches and ports outbound for bitcomet on the firewall.

I think I will run it through another country from now one and do those downloads across a vpn through an overseas IP....

mikeyis4dcats.
08-04-2010, 03:37 PM
If they wish to sue you they will. Deleting the file now makes no difference so long as you don't share it.

I've gotten 2 of these over the years on tv show torrents. I think they are more lax about OTA television, but they could choose to sue.

Fish
08-04-2010, 03:40 PM
I disabled and blocked all leaches and ports outbound for bitcomet on the firewall.

I think I will run it through another country from now one and do those downloads across a vpn through an overseas IP....

ROFL

Somebody's been watching too much CSI or something...

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 03:42 PM
ROFL

Somebody's been watching too much CSI or something...

:hmmm:

Just have that capability to route protocols and ports over to our office in the Middle East.

sometimes all this network knowledge can pay off....

Bane
08-04-2010, 03:42 PM
:banghead:

Dylan
08-04-2010, 03:46 PM
This is basically a cease and desist first warning. I got one of these from Mediacom a few weeks ago. Just stop sharing the file and from now on use Peer Block (http://www.peerblock.com/) when you're using a bit torrent client.

there you go... i knew someone would come up with a work-a-around. :thumb:

Fish
08-04-2010, 03:46 PM
:hmmm:

Just have that capability to route protocols and ports over to our office in the Middle East.

sometimes all this network knowledge can pay off....

Uhh huhh..... and spoofing IPs on the firewall too?

dirk digler
08-04-2010, 03:49 PM
I disabled and blocked all leaches and ports outbound for bitcomet on the firewall.

I think I will run it through another country from now one and do those downloads across a vpn through an overseas IP....

I would think the download times would be pretty slow doing it that way.

alnorth
08-04-2010, 03:53 PM
Ok as others have suggested don't let the movie upload. Which means you will be a leech but at least you won't get caught. And use Peer Blocker or Peer Guardian (which I use) and you should be fine.

Been years since I started paying for stuff, but isn't bittorrent smart enough to shun leeches? I thought that if you shut off your outgoing traffic then peers begin to ignore you.

Fried Meat Ball!
08-04-2010, 03:54 PM
This is basically a cease and desist first warning. I got one of these from Mediacom a few weeks ago. Just stop sharing the file and from now on use Peer Block (http://www.peerblock.com/) when you're using a bit torrent client.

Or you could stop stealing things. That's generally idiotproof.

:shrug:

ChiTown
08-04-2010, 03:55 PM
Or you could stop stealing things. That's generally idiotproof.

:shrug:

Repost o:-)


Generally speaking, I would try and avoid shit that is knowingly illegal.

Your welcome.:D

Mecca
08-04-2010, 03:56 PM
Or you could stop stealing things. That's generally idiotproof.

:shrug:

Now that is not a reasonable solution.

alnorth
08-04-2010, 03:59 PM
Or you could stop stealing things. That's generally idiotproof.

:shrug:

no joke, you could sort of see the motivation many, many years ago if you wash your morals through a weird illogical spin-cycle (the artists aren't profiting, they make money off tours, I wont pay the greedy record companies! Movies are so expensive and almost always terrible, there's no way to try before you buy! etc)

but now, gosh this stuff is so cheap that I dont have a lot of sympathy for pirates anymore. (I guess the above argument still exists a bit for those $50-60 games, but even then there's usually demo versions to try so you aren't a total victim here) songs are a dollar or so, you give netflix a few bucks a month and you can get over a dozen dvd's/month and unlimited online for lots of movies, which is a hell of a good deal.

Art Vader
08-04-2010, 04:04 PM
there you go... i knew someone would come up with a reach-a-around. :thumb:

fyp

CrazyPhuD
08-04-2010, 04:06 PM
This is basically a cease and desist first warning. I got one of these from Mediacom a few weeks ago. Just stop sharing the file and from now on use Peer Block (http://www.peerblock.com/) when you're using a bit torrent client.

No offense but things like peer block will never work. To some degree it's worse than doing nothing because it gives you a false sense of security that you're protected. The reality is it provide NO protection. There are things you could use, but I won't mention them here.

As dane has said, the studios will take this very seriously I really wouldn't fuck around with it. If you're going to do it don't use torrents. The studios problem is they still insist on using media that will never ever be secure. Until they go away from DVDs and BluRays they will never be able to stamp out the piracy problem.

CrazyPhuD
08-04-2010, 04:08 PM
no joke, you could sort of see the motivation many, many years ago if you wash your morals through a weird illogical spin-cycle (the artists aren't profiting, they make money off tours, I wont pay the greedy record companies! Movies are so expensive and almost always terrible, there's no way to try before you buy! etc)

but now, gosh this stuff is so cheap that I dont have a lot of sympathy for pirates anymore. (I guess the above argument still exists a bit for those $50-60 games, but even then there's usually demo versions to try so you aren't a total victim here) songs are a dollar or so, you give netflix a few bucks a month and you can get over a dozen dvd's/month and unlimited online for lots of movies, which is a hell of a good deal.

gamefly is the video game version of netflix.

Short Leash Hootie
08-04-2010, 04:12 PM
Check your PM's.

I tend to go overboard when people ask my fantasy advice...so you got a 5000 character response. Enjoy.

chefsos
08-04-2010, 04:14 PM
Just thieve it from walmart. Much easier...

What? Are those old fucks gonna chase you?? ROFLSure, that'll work. All you have to do is outrun all the cameras...

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 04:17 PM
Uhh huhh..... and spoofing IPs on the firewall too?

Are we talking over your head?

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 04:25 PM
I would think the download times would be pretty slow doing it that way.

We will see... I rarely download movies or music, so to be honest its not that big of a deal...

but yes when the hop gets to NYC the latency jumps from 57ms to over 300Ms when it hits the seabone.net carrier....

but I could grab it over there and bring it across the pond through the vpn...

But its really fun to make it work that way, but the speeds would absolutely suck.

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 04:26 PM
http://screencast.com/t/ZWQ0NzU0ZT

Latency on the hops

vailpass
08-04-2010, 04:32 PM
Why not just pay $3.99 for PPV?

Or better yet, pay $8.99 for Netflix?

Some of the guys in the MediaForum turned me on to NetFlix a couple months ago.
I am loving that shit, so are the wife and kids. Between that and VUDU you are fully covered.
Why would you want to steal when they are so cheap to buy?

Reaper16
08-04-2010, 04:36 PM
no joke, you could sort of see the motivation many, many years ago if you wash your morals through a weird illogical spin-cycle (the artists aren't profiting, they make money off tours, I wont pay the greedy record companies! Movies are so expensive and almost always terrible, there's no way to try before you buy! etc)

but now, gosh this stuff is so cheap that I dont have a lot of sympathy for pirates anymore. (I guess the above argument still exists a bit for those $50-60 games, but even then there's usually demo versions to try so you aren't a total victim here) songs are a dollar or so, you give netflix a few bucks a month and you can get over a dozen dvd's/month and unlimited online for lots of movies, which is a hell of a good deal.
I don't really give a shit about cutting into the profit margins of anyone with my downloading. I only d/l TV shows that don't hit Hulu and obscure music albums. I buy a shit-ton of movie tickets, DVDs, Blu-Rays and albums. I buy more entertainment than I download.

DaFace
08-04-2010, 04:37 PM
Some of the guys in the MediaForum turned me on to NetFlix a couple months ago.
I am loving that shit, so are the wife and kids. Between that and VUDU you are fully covered.
Why would you want to steal when they are so cheap to buy?

Yeah, we've all but stopped downloading...umm...media of questionable legality...these days. Between DVR, Netflix, and Hulu, there's just not enough time in the day to care to pirate anything.

Fritz88
08-04-2010, 04:38 PM
Fuck Joe Biden.

Fritz88
08-04-2010, 04:40 PM
the day I downloaded it there were 16000 peers sending it out... Are they going after all 16000?

When you download it. Don't upload it (i.e. seed it to others). They usually go after those who distribute it. Once you finish, then go ahead and unshare it. Let the Russians and Swedish dudes seed. We shit and go. They shit and clean up after us because their laws are a little lax regarding piracy.

Secondly, I would rather go with Netflix since it's not too pricey and is legal.

The movie industry is not losing much from this. Am I right?

Guru
08-04-2010, 04:43 PM
Redbox FTW

Fish
08-04-2010, 04:53 PM
Are we talking over your head?

LMAO Yeah.... somebody is at least....

The thing about P2P is that you're creating a direct connection between your computer and the torrent tracker. So whatever you think you're "spoofing" is irrelevant. Even if you managed to figure out how to spoof your IP(which I really doubt), doing so would effectively kill your entire connection in Bitcomet, and you couldn't use it for anything. You see, when you spoof an IP, you're changing the header info to use an IP other than your own. So when something tries to reply, it goes to a different IP than the one you have. Spoofing your IP would cause the torrent tracker to send info back to a different IP, and you'd never get a response from it and could never download anything.

Like CrazyPhud pointed out, even apps like Peer Guardian aren't doing what you think they're doing. They're not hiding your IP at all. They're simply blocking certain known addresses from returning info to your IP. But your IP is still out there for the tracker to see. It has to be for it to work.

And a VPN connection wouldn't do anything for you in this case either. As a VPN connection restricts IP access outside of whatever network you're connecting to. That's the entire point of a VPN connection. So while your VPN connection was running, you would have no access to any torrent trackers. You could access a computer on your VPN network in another country, and use that computer to download stuff. But they'd still be able to see its IP, and you'd still have to transport your downloads from that network to yours, which would make it unusable.

But you're the network expert here... I'm sure you already knew all this... LMAO

BigRock
08-04-2010, 04:55 PM
We will see... I rarely download movies or music, so to be honest its not that big of a deal...

but yes when the hop gets to NYC the latency jumps from 57ms to over 300Ms when it hits the seabone.net carrier....

but I could grab it over there and bring it across the pond through the vpn...

But its really fun to make it work that way, but the speeds would absolutely suck.

Not worth it if you rarely download, but if you're already familiar with VPNs and stuff, you should look into a seedbox.

Buck
08-04-2010, 05:16 PM
Nice, now we have your IP Address Reerun.

BWillie
08-04-2010, 05:16 PM
If you illegally downloaded a movie and Cox has provided your IP to Paramount, you may be sued for damages.

The movie studios aren't handling piracy like the music business did in the 90's. They mean business and will prosecute.

What if you have a roommate and they illegally download and share movies? What do you do then. It's under your internet service. I have a couple roommates that I rent to, and this hasn't happened yet but I'm always wondering.

Fish
08-04-2010, 05:19 PM
Nice, now we have your IP Address Reerun.

HackLOL....

You've done been backtraced Son.... the consequences will never be the same...

WilliamTheIrish
08-04-2010, 05:22 PM
Be careful RR. Back in the late 90's and early 2k's, DirecTV sent several hundred thousand letters out to people who had purchased smart cards, unlocked them and used them to obtain free TV. And I mean all TV.

DtV actually sued many people into bankruptcy over it and some were paying customers.


http://www.securityfocus.com/news/6402

WilliamTheIrish
08-04-2010, 05:26 PM
What if you have a roommate and they illegally download and share movies? What do you do then. It's under your internet service. I have a couple roommates that I rent to, and this hasn't happened yet but I'm always wondering.

Here's what they usually say in cases like that:

"We don't care. Pay up".

Fritz88
08-04-2010, 05:26 PM
What if you have a roommate and they illegally download and share movies? What do you do then. It's under your internet service. I have a couple roommates that I rent to, and this hasn't happened yet but I'm always wondering.

If it's under your name, you could get in trouble unless you prove it's their PCs which is possible using their IPs.

I remember a friend of mine moved in and the fucker started downloading all seasons of some TV show until I got contacted by sunflower in Lawrence.

Buck
08-04-2010, 05:28 PM
Everyone download PeerBlock right now.

I don't download movies or condone the downloading of movies, but I download a shit load of TV Shows because I dont have enough room on my DVR.

DaneMcCloud
08-04-2010, 05:36 PM
Everyone download PeerBlock right now.


Everyone stop illegally downloading copyrighted content right now.

Reaper16
08-04-2010, 05:37 PM
Everyone stop illegally downloading copyrighted content right now.
Every content holder make your content legally available 24/7 in some capacity right now.

MTG#10
08-04-2010, 05:38 PM
Usenet people. How many people have you ever heard of getting busted downloading from newsgroups? Its way faster and a LOT safer.

MTG#10
08-04-2010, 05:42 PM
Why not just pay $3.99 for PPV?

Or better yet, pay $8.99 for Netflix?

I use netflix. Its great, I can rip the dvd's to my hard drive, burn them when Im ready to watch, and send them back the same day to get more dvd's faster.

Rausch
08-04-2010, 05:48 PM
Everyone stop illegally downloading copyrighted content right now.

...

Fried Meat Ball!
08-04-2010, 05:50 PM
I use netflix. Its great, I can rip the dvd's to my hard drive, burn them when Im ready to watch, and send them back the same day to get more dvd's faster.

Nothing quite like it when you can get it dirt cheap AND steal it, huh?

DaneMcCloud
08-04-2010, 05:53 PM
Every content holder make your content legally available 24/7 in some capacity right now.

So that's the argument? It's not legally available?

Come on.

CrazyPhuD
08-04-2010, 05:58 PM
Everyone download PeerBlock right now.

I don't download movies or condone the downloading of movies, but I download a shit load of TV Shows because I dont have enough room on my DVR.

I say this again peer block will provide zero protection. You think the people hunting for copyrights wouldn't use proxies? It takes no skill. You are 100% wasting your time and giving yourself a false sense of security.

Sure-Oz
08-04-2010, 05:58 PM
Going to jail for transformers revenge of the fallen would be a crime, hell who'd want to steal that shitty movie

Fritz88
08-04-2010, 06:05 PM
Everyone stop illegally downloading copyrighted content right now.

Everyone download illegal movies so Dane would go broke.

Fritz88
08-04-2010, 06:06 PM
So that's the argument? It's not legally available?

Come on.

In North American and Europe. I'd understand why it's not the right thing to do. But in other places. It's the only way to go.

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 06:08 PM
LMAO Yeah.... somebody is at least....

The thing about P2P is that you're creating a direct connection between your computer and the torrent tracker. So whatever you think you're "spoofing" is irrelevant. Even if you managed to figure out how to spoof your IP(which I really doubt), doing so would effectively kill your entire connection in Bitcomet, and you couldn't use it for anything. You see, when you spoof an IP, you're changing the header info to use an IP other than your own. So when something tries to reply, it goes to a different IP than the one you have. Spoofing your IP would cause the torrent tracker to send info back to a different IP, and you'd never get a response from it and could never download anything.

Like CrazyPhud pointed out, even apps like Peer Guardian aren't doing what you think they're doing. They're not hiding your IP at all. They're simply blocking certain known addresses from returning info to your IP. But your IP is still out there for the tracker to see. It has to be for it to work.

And a VPN connection wouldn't do anything for you in this case either. As a VPN connection restricts IP access outside of whatever network you're connecting to. That's the entire point of a VPN connection. So while your VPN connection was running, you would have no access to any torrent trackers. You could access a computer on your VPN network in another country, and use that computer to download stuff. But they'd still be able to see its IP, and you'd still have to transport your downloads from that network to yours, which would make it unusable.

But you're the network expert here... I'm sure you already knew all this... LMAO

I am very impressed! I think I better quit my job now, since I know nothing compared to you. So Can you tell me what I was planning on doing and how I was planning on getting the files?

Obviously I dont have a clue...

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 06:09 PM
Nice, now we have your IP Address Reerun.

go ahead, I dont have a static one here... but come on in and join the party!

Fritz88
08-04-2010, 06:12 PM
I am very impressed! I think I better quit my job now, since I know nothing compared to you. So Can you tell me what I was planning on doing and how I was planning on getting the files?

Obviously I dont have a clue...

PeerBlock or Peer Guardian will not do you any good. KC Fish is right.

You have two options:
Private Tracker.
Or
Usnet

You can always buy the content. This "Piracey" thing is what brought us NetFlix, Hulu and all the other legal streamable options.

I also heard Frankie will accept BJs in return for some of his DVD collection.

Guru
08-04-2010, 06:18 PM
I just wish they would lower prices. I've pretty much gone away from BD content and back to DVD renting again.

MTG#10
08-04-2010, 06:18 PM
Nothing quite like it when you can get it dirt cheap AND steal it, huh?

So copying dvd's that I pay to rent is stealing now too? If they dont want them copied, they should make it impossible.

Guru
08-04-2010, 06:20 PM
So copying dvd's that I pay to rent is stealing now too? If they dont want them copied, they should make it impossible.

I will copy a DVD from time to time if my wife and I can't find time to watch it together but then we overwrite it. I don't keep any of these movies around.

Fish
08-04-2010, 06:22 PM
I am very impressed! I think I better quit my job now, since I know nothing compared to you. So Can you tell me what I was planning on doing and how I was planning on getting the files?

Obviously I dont have a clue...

You were planning on having Habib split it into RAR files and put them on about 7 or 8 Zip100 discs and drop them in the overseas mail...

That's your plan.

Shaid
08-04-2010, 06:26 PM
This is basically a cease and desist first warning. I got one of these from Mediacom a few weeks ago. Just stop sharing the file and from now on use Peer Block (http://www.peerblock.com/) when you're using a bit torrent client.

awe, nice to see someone else here knows about peerblock.

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 06:27 PM
You were planning on having Habib split it into RAR files and put them on about 7 or 8 Zip100 discs and drop them in the overseas mail...

That's your plan.

ROFL

Damn You!!!!!

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 06:30 PM
You were planning on having Habib split it into RAR files and put them on about 7 or 8 Zip100 discs and drop them in the overseas mail...

That's your plan.

Actually I was just thinking if I want movies, I could as Nasir to rip them for me and I would bring them across the tunnel.. He has a shit ton of US movies, quite an extensive collection...

Or I could just download them over there and then send them across at night... Shouldnt be that big of deal if I wanted them bad enough.

Reerun_KC
08-04-2010, 06:32 PM
PeerBlock or Peer Guardian will not do you any good. KC Fish is right.

You have two options:
Private Tracker.
Or
Usnet

You can always buy the content. This "Piracey" thing is what brought us NetFlix, Hulu and all the other legal streamable options.

I also heard Frankie will accept BJs in return for some of his DVD collection.

Fair enough... I made a mistake today and allowed an upload.. I dont spend much time watching movies or actually downloading them..

Trimm
08-04-2010, 06:48 PM
news groups for the win...

BigRock
08-04-2010, 06:54 PM
PeerBlock or Peer Guardian will not do you any good. KC Fish is right.

You have two options:
Private Tracker.
Or
Usnet

Private trackers aren't necessarily safe anymore either. Which all the CP users of gay-torrents.net already know.

Delano
08-04-2010, 07:04 PM
Private trackers aren't necessarily safe anymore either. Which all the CP users of gay-torrents.net already know.

Heh. Mass bust or what?

But seriously, not sure what would possess anyone to keep pirating after they receive a letter like that.
Posted via Mobile Device

dirk digler
08-04-2010, 07:05 PM
Been years since I started paying for stuff, but isn't bittorrent smart enough to shun leeches? I thought that if you shut off your outgoing traffic then peers begin to ignore you.

What I ususally do is set Utorrent to limit my upload speed to a really low rate and when I am done downloading I stop seeding.

From my limited experience it seems people get caught when they are seeding for an extended amount of time after the download is finished.

Delano
08-04-2010, 07:08 PM
From my limited experience it seems people get caught when they are seeding for an extended amount of time after the download is finished.

What is your experience? How would you know who all gets sent a letter or worse?

The busts seem random to me. They can't catch everyone. :shrug:
Posted via Mobile Device

unlurking
08-04-2010, 07:09 PM
Just be glad it wasn't the USCG f0ckers.

Oh, and torrentz are retarded for privacy, as others have already mentioned. Direct downloads are where it's at.

For all your piracy needs...

http://www.filestube.com/

dirk digler
08-04-2010, 07:09 PM
When you download it. Don't upload it (i.e. seed it to others). They usually go after those who distribute it. Once you finish, then go ahead and unshare it. Let the Russians and Swedish dudes seed. We shit and go. They shit and clean up after us because their laws are a little lax regarding piracy.

Secondly, I would rather go with Netflix since it's not too pricey and is legal.

The movie industry is not losing much from this. Am I right?

Yep that is exactly what I do.

I will admit a few years ago I downloaded alot of shit but in the last year or so I have pretty much stopped because there is cheap legal options plus there really isn't anything I care to download.

dirk digler
08-04-2010, 07:10 PM
What is your experience? How would you know who all gets sent a letter or worse?

The busts seem random to me. They can't catch everyone. :shrug:
Posted via Mobile Device

I had 3-4 friends get this same type of letter. Everyone of them were seeding for an extended amount of time. As Fritz stated they are going after the distributors not the leechers.

That is just my very limited experience with this though so just be careful.

bevischief
08-04-2010, 07:11 PM
Is the movie still on your computer? If so, the complaint is probably not that you downloaded it, but that you are uploading it. In many cases, BitTorrent clients will continue to upload whatever files you've downloaded in the past until you remove them manually.

I'd recommend toasting the file ASAP and being more careful from now on. Hopefully this will be the last you hear of it.

He is right, go find something not made but the major studios, like 911 conspiracies movies to meet the min file sharing limit...

unlurking
08-04-2010, 07:11 PM
What is your experience? How would you know who all gets sent a letter or worse?

The busts seem random to me. They can't catch everyone. :shrug:
Posted via Mobile Device

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/06/the-riaa-amateurs-heres-how-you-sue-p2p-users.ars
The RIAA? Amateurs. Here's how you sue 14,000+ P2P users

Many more articles about the USCG going after torrent users, Ars does a pretty good job reporting on this.

bevischief
08-04-2010, 07:13 PM
What I ususally do is set Utorrent to limit my upload speed to a really low rate and when I am done downloading I stop seeding.

From my limited experience it seems people get caught when they are seeding for an extended amount of time after the download is finished.

I remove whatever I am downloading ASAP after it is done, and only do the min to get what I am looking for using stuff no one wants, like conspiracies movies not made by the big boys.

Delano
08-04-2010, 07:17 PM
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/06/the-riaa-amateurs-heres-how-you-sue-p2p-users.ars
The RIAA? Amateurs. Here's how you sue 14,000+ P2P users

Many more articles about the USCG going after torrent users, Ars does a pretty good job reporting on this.

Amazing. Hope they aren't pulling users from the past.

What are the direct downloads you speak of? Rapidshare type thing?

I also wondered about streaming video.
Posted via Mobile Device

alnorth
08-04-2010, 07:29 PM
You can always buy the content. This "Piracey" thing is what brought us NetFlix, Hulu and all the other legal streamable options.

If there's one positive from piracy it is this. Once upon a time you had to pay $15-20 for a DVD to watch once or twice. You couldn't buy songs, you had to buy the whole damn record including all the crappy tracks. Many TV shows were unavailable.

It is still not perfect, there's some extremely obscure old TV shows not legally available without paying through the nose, but by and large there's not a lot of need to pirate anymore.

To the extent that there ever was a hazy quasi-legit reason to pirate, we won the war. Almost everything is available quickly at a reasonable price.

I doubt anyone will care if you download some old TV show that isnt for sale anywhere, but if someone pirates something available at a cheap price and gets busted for it, I have no sympathy.

unlurking
08-04-2010, 07:32 PM
@Delano:

Go to filestube, search for anything you're interested in. You'll be amazed at what you can find. In the Media Section there was a thread about a 1994 version of the movie Fantastic Four that apparently sucked and hard to get. It's on RapidShare.

http://www.filestube.com/ecd80fa79295366003e9,g/TheFantasticFour1994-EE.html

Baconeater
08-04-2010, 07:32 PM
I'm always amazed at what people will risk over something that has such a trivial cost. Doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me.

unlurking
08-04-2010, 07:35 PM
...
I doubt anyone will care if you download some old TV show that isnt for sale anywhere, but if someone pirates something available at a cheap price and gets busted for it, I have no sympathy.

That and indie music stuff released in the 80's (show tapes). I haven't downloaded a movie or even a TV show in years now, thanks to TiVo and Netflix.

Delano
08-04-2010, 07:36 PM
@Delano:

Go to filestube, search for anything you're interested in. You'll be amazed at what you can find. In the Media Section there was a thread about a 1994 version of the movie Fantastic Four that apparently sucked and hard to get. It's on RapidShare.

http://www.filestube.com/ecd80fa79295366003e9,g/TheFantasticFour1994-EE.html

That can't possibly be without risk, can it?
Posted via Mobile Device

TrickyNicky
08-04-2010, 07:40 PM
That can't possibly be without risk, can it?
Posted via Mobile Device

Nothing is without risk. Scan whatever you download.

unlurking
08-04-2010, 07:44 PM
That can't possibly be without risk, can it?
Posted via Mobile Device
RapidShare has already won court cases in Europe and the US, although nothing is obviously "without risk". Add a proxy server (if you can find one with good speed) or a TOR connection and I don't think you can get much lower though.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/05/rapidshare-didnt-infringe-on-copyrights-says-us-court.ars
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/07/german-court-overturns-injunction-against-rapidshare.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss

BigRock
08-04-2010, 07:48 PM
Heh. Mass bust or what?

Lawsuit. Gay-torrents.net is a private tracker, but got served with a lawsuit like many of the public ones have gotten. Apparenly it's the first private tracker to be sued.

Really, all someone from an offended company needs to do is sign up for an account on a private tracker, and then it's just as exposed as a public one. But there's so much public stuff, it'll probably still be quite a while before private ones are targeted to any large degree.

Third Eye
08-04-2010, 11:11 PM
RapidShare has already won court cases in Europe and the US, although nothing is obviously "without risk". Add a proxy server (if you can find one with good speed) or a TOR connection and I don't think you can get much lower though.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/05/rapidshare-didnt-infringe-on-copyrights-says-us-court.ars
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/07/german-court-overturns-injunction-against-rapidshare.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss

Using TOR bandwidth for media downloads is kinda dickish.

Tribal Warfare
08-04-2010, 11:18 PM
Everyone download illegal movies so Dane would go broke.

He's in the music industry

unlurking
08-05-2010, 03:50 AM
Using TOR bandwidth for media downloads is kinda dickish.
True. At least it would be distributed dickishness as opposed to stealing neighboring WiFi.

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-05-2010, 06:03 AM
I tried to call the number.... Couldnt get anyone to talk....

Could you be any fucking dumber...

Simply Red
08-05-2010, 06:07 AM
yeah RR, just let it pass.

Inspector
08-05-2010, 06:52 AM
Everyone stop illegally downloading copyrighted content right now.

Thanks Dane!

I suspect the people who steal probably wouldn't break into their neighbors house and swipe the silverware but stealing copyrighted material is still stealing. I have a family member who is a copyrighted artist and he works very hard at his craft and makes incredible music that is enjoyed by many. And he would never try to steal your income.

Knowing right from wrong is easy. Doing right instead or wrong is where your personal integrity is tested.

BTW, many of these artist who are having their material stolen are not rich. Just hard working and dedicated to providing others with their work, but they deserve to be paid for their work just as you deserve to get paid for yours.

Reerun_KC
08-05-2010, 07:09 AM
Could you be any ****ing dumber...

Well I could be you....

Reerun_KC
08-05-2010, 07:10 AM
yeah RR, just let it pass.

I am. I thought it was comical to say the least...


So if I buy a DVD, rip it to my laptop and watch it while traveling, is that copyrighting their material?

Fritz88
08-05-2010, 07:29 AM
I am. I thought it was comical to say the least...


So if I buy a DVD, rip it to my laptop and watch it while traveling, is that copyrighting their material?

Unfortunately, yes.

Reerun_KC
08-05-2010, 07:50 AM
Unfortunately, yes.

:shake:

How are they going to sue half of the people in america?

Saulbadguy
08-05-2010, 07:55 AM
Everyone stop illegally downloading copyrighted content right now.

Is the porn industry fighting this fight as well? I don't illegaly download movies but pr0n, well, that's a different story.

Demonpenz
08-05-2010, 08:33 AM
my laptop has a dvd drive. No need to rip it.

DaneMcCloud
08-05-2010, 10:37 AM
Is the porn industry fighting this fight as well? I don't illegaly download movies but pr0n, well, that's a different story.

What going on in the porn industry is a mess. They're losing millions and millions of dollars to the "Tube" sites, which are not sanctioned or owned by the porn companies.

They used to make a ton of money on various "link" sites early in this decade because those only showed 30 second ;preview clips, then linked to the owner's site for purchase or membership. Those days are all but gone.

I have a friend that works for a major porn studio in marketing (they do about $60 million a year in cam girls) and the entire marketing department was fired, leaving him as the last man standing. Their sales are down more than 20%, although his individual sales are up 15% on the year.

And it's difficult for these companies to get any sympathy from Congress, as I'm sure you could imagine.

It's a tough time in that biz.

Fritz88
08-05-2010, 10:58 AM
What going on in the porn industry is a mess. They're losing millions and millions of dollars to the "Tube" sites, which are not sanctioned or owned by the porn companies.

They used to make a ton of money on various "link" sites early in this decade because those only showed 30 second ;preview clips, then linked to the owner's site for purchase or membership. Those days are all but gone.

I have a friend that works for a major porn studio in marketing (they do about $60 million a year in cam girls) and the entire marketing department was fired, leaving him as the last man standing. Their sales are down more than 20%, although his individual sales are up 15% on the year.

And it's difficult for these companies to get any sympathy from Congress, as I'm sure you could imagine.

It's a tough time in that biz.

I once read that the porn industry in the US is making more money than any other entertainment section. They might be suffering in the web but doing fine else where.
Posted via Mobile Device

DaneMcCloud
08-05-2010, 11:15 AM
I once read that the porn industry in the US is making more money than any other entertainment section. They might be suffering in the web but doing fine else where.
Posted via Mobile Device

That's completely untrue on both counts.

Warners, NBC/Universal, Paramount & Sony all make far more than the porn industry. That isn't to say that the porn business wasn't a "billion dollar industry" (gross sales) but the profits are far, far less than mainstream movie studios.

Furthermore, the internet is absolutely killing the porn business.

Brock
08-05-2010, 11:39 AM
They might have to move the AVN awards to the Orange County Howard Johnson's.

CrazyPhuD
08-05-2010, 02:29 PM
That's completely untrue on both counts.

Warners, NBC/Universal, Paramount & Sony all make far more than the porn industry. That isn't to say that the porn business wasn't a "billion dollar industry" (gross sales) but the profits are far, far less than mainstream movie studios.

Furthermore, the internet is absolutely killing the porn business.

Well in both mainstream and porn it just means they need to secure their content in the future. Which means no DVDs no bluray, each file individually encrypted. With an authoritative audit trail able to pinpoint the original purchaser if it shows up online.

vailpass
08-05-2010, 02:46 PM
Well in both mainstream and porn it just means they need to secure their content in the future. Which means no DVDs no bluray, each file individually encrypted. With an authoritative audit trail able to pinpoint the original purchaser if it shows up online.

With all the free (not pirated) and amateur pron on the web why would people pay for it?

dirk digler
08-05-2010, 03:15 PM
Dane is right. Here is a good article on the porn industry and how the internet is really hurting them.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/aug/10/business/fi-ct-porn10

Reerun_KC
08-05-2010, 03:21 PM
KC Fish

I went ahead and snagged a couple of songs just to test the routing across the pond...

It was slow as hell, but it worked... Went ahead and routed the ports through the vpn tunnel and out the firewall in the middle east...

I was surprised that it worked.......

Bearcat
08-05-2010, 05:06 PM
This is a very entertaining thread, in several different ways.

I give it: :o):o):o):o)



(I always forget the clown smiley... I'd remember :Herm: )

58-4ever
08-05-2010, 05:28 PM
This isn't shit. It's all about the bandwidth. They don't give a fuck about copyrights. My former roommate had a blank file out there called Bee Movie, and we got the same kind of letter. Fight it!

Just Passin' By
08-05-2010, 05:35 PM
:shake:

How are they going to sue half of the people in america?

They don't have to. Copyright (and patent) laws are rigged by the big special interests so that the little people take it in the shorts. All you have to do is scare the right people, and the rest of the herd is irrelevant. That's why these groups want to be able to shut down portal sites. They had some success with that recently, as a matter of fact, as the feds shut down about a half dozen of them.

vailpass
08-05-2010, 05:37 PM
They don't have to. Copyright (and patent) laws are rigged by the big special interests so that the little people take it in the shorts. All you have to do is scare the right people, and the rest of the herd is irrelevant. That's why these groups want to be able to shut down portal sites. They had some success with that recently, as a matter of fact, as the feds shut down about a half dozen of them.

Patents and copyrights are rigged? Inventors shouldn't receive the fruits of their labors? Less creative, inventive or motivated people should be able to come along and steal what someone worked to build?
Bullshit.

Al Bundy
08-05-2010, 06:02 PM
Only thing I ever download is out of print old rap records and they are all available in the wide open.

Just Passin' By
08-05-2010, 06:07 PM
Patents and copyrights are rigged? Inventors shouldn't receive the fruits of their labors? Less creative, inventive or motivated people should be able to come along and steal what someone worked to build?
Bullshit.

Oh, please. Disney's dead. The people receiving the 'fruits' of his labor get to keep on milking that cash cow. The CTEA of 1998 even extended the length of that sort of crap.*

Go try selling that "fruits of their labors" bullshit to people who don't know the rules.

*To be fair, Patents, meanwhile, haven't received similar government "assistance".

DaneMcCloud
08-05-2010, 06:21 PM
They don't have to. Copyright (and patent) laws are rigged by the big special interests so that the little people take it in the shorts. All you have to do is scare the right people, and the rest of the herd is irrelevant. That's why these groups want to be able to shut down portal sites. They had some success with that recently, as a matter of fact, as the feds shut down about a half dozen of them.

Special Interests? What the FUCK are you talking about, Dipshit?

It's ILLEGAL to download copyrighted material.

Seriously, I wish all you fuckers would be fined and jailed.

It's fucking bullshit.

J Diddy
08-05-2010, 07:24 PM
Special Interests? What the **** are you talking about, Dipshit?

It's ILLEGAL to download copyrighted material.

Seriously, I wish all you ****ers would be fined and jailed.

It's ****ing bullshit.

I disagree. Obviously if the movie is worth keeping you should buy the original, otherwise erase it. Seems to me the one getting screwed are the rental places.

vailpass
08-05-2010, 07:34 PM
Oh, please. Disney's dead. The people receiving the 'fruits' of his labor get to keep on milking that cash cow. The CTEA of 1998 even extended the length of that sort of crap.*

Go try selling that "fruits of their labors" bullshit to people who don't know the rules.

*To be fair, Patents, meanwhile, haven't received similar government "assistance".

I'm not looking to pick an argument with you but you talk like a thief.

DaneMcCloud
08-05-2010, 07:39 PM
I disagree. Obviously if the movie is worth keeping you should buy the original, otherwise erase it. Seems to me the one getting screwed are the rental places.

Blockbuster has exclusives with the studios in which they get new releases for 30 days before they go to services like Red Box.

BTW, Blockbuster is owned by Viacom (which owns Paramount Studios, CBS, MTV, VH-1, etc.) and their numbers have been steadily decreasing for a decade.

I doubt rental houses be around past 2016, let alone 2020. The model doesn't work in today's environment.

Deberg_1990
08-05-2010, 07:42 PM
Blockbuster has exclusives with the studios in which they get new releases for 30 days before they go to services like Red Box.

BTW, Blockbuster is owned by Viacom (which owns Paramount Studios, CBS, MTV, VH-1, etc.) and their numbers have been steadily decreasing for a decade.

I doubt rental houses be around past 2016, let alone 2020. The model doesn't work in today's environment.

Netflix and Redbox are cleaning house.

I love Netflix's streaming movie service.

J Diddy
08-05-2010, 07:54 PM
I'm not looking to pick an argument with you but you talk like a thief.


FTR, could you share what a thief talks like. Seems like that'd be a useful tidbit of info....

DaneMcCloud
08-05-2010, 08:39 PM
FTR, could you share what a thief talks like. Seems like that'd be a useful tidbit of info....

Maybe like Reerun throughout the thread, along with others?

I don't understand why in this day and age, when film and TV is available on iTunes, Netflix, Redbox (a $1???) and PPV, why people continue to illegally download.

If fucking pisses me off because a lot of good people that I've known over the years are not only out of jobs, but have had to move on to different careers altogether due to the effects of music and film piracy.

Al Bundy
08-05-2010, 09:09 PM
I'm with Dane, I have known a few reps at record labels who have lost their jobs. Difference is I also feel like the music industry had a lot to do with it. They have done some to stop the decline and the pirating, but there is still a few little things that could help. Like I said earlier int he thread I download out of print usually rap music.

Deberg_1990
08-05-2010, 09:17 PM
I don't understand why in this day and age, when film and TV is available on iTunes, Netflix, Redbox (a $1???) and PPV, why people continue to illegally download.



Theres still a huge perception of "victimless crime" or "screw Hollywood, they are all rich anyways"

That combined with the relative anonymity of the internet to disguise that you are stealing.

DaneMcCloud
08-05-2010, 09:40 PM
Theres still a huge perception of "victimless crime" or "screw Hollywood, they are all rich anyways"

That combined with the relative anonymity of the internet to disguise that you are stealing.

I know why people do it - because they perceive it as "free", when that's far from the truth.

If I came to your place of business and took a minimum of 20% of your revenues away forever, I'm certain that people would be let go and your profit margin would be considerably reduced. I'd also end up in jail for that theft.

Yet when people steal movies or music, they choose to believe they're not actually stealing because let's face it, 95% of the people in the world don't understand or respect intellectual property and justify it as you described above.

I'd expect more from someone like Reerun, who's experienced unemployment for a considerable length of time, first hand. But he clearly doesn't care if and how piracy effects others, even though puts people in the same exact position that he was in: Unemployed and probably in need of a career change.

J Diddy
08-05-2010, 10:11 PM
Maybe like Reerun throughout the thread, along with others?

I don't understand why in this day and age, when film and TV is available on iTunes, Netflix, Redbox (a $1???) and PPV, why people continue to illegally download.

If ****ing pisses me off because a lot of good people that I've known over the years are not only out of jobs, but have had to move on to different careers altogether due to the effects of music and film piracy.


ahhh,

but here's the grey area. Would the people buy this anyway?

Third Eye
08-05-2010, 10:19 PM
Blockbuster has exclusives with the studios in which they get new releases for 30 days before they go to services like Red Box.

BTW, Blockbuster is owned by Viacom (which owns Paramount Studios, CBS, MTV, VH-1, etc.) and their numbers have been steadily decreasing for a decade.

I doubt rental houses be around past 2016, let alone 2020. The model doesn't work in today's environment.

Viacom cut blockbuster about 8 years ago. They read the writing on the wall and cut the deadweight.

DaneMcCloud
08-05-2010, 10:19 PM
ahhh,

but here's the grey area. Would the people buy this anyway?

It's not a grey area.

If they weren't going to purchase it (which is fucking bullshit to begin with when tens of millions of college students were file sharing up to a billion files, mostly contemporary music of the day in the 90's), then they don't have any right to copy of said property.

That's like me coming to your Domino's, stealing 20% of your pizza for the year without paying a cent and saying "Well, I certainly wasn't going to BUY it, but I wanted it anyway".

DaneMcCloud
08-05-2010, 10:20 PM
Viacom cut blockbuster about 8 years ago. They read the writing on the wall and cut the deadweight.

It had to be later than that because I was still there in 2003 when Viacom owned it.

Looks like it was sold in 2004 and has lost billions since being delisted by the New York Stock Exchange.

Third Eye
08-05-2010, 10:33 PM
It had to be later than that because I was still there in 2003 when Viacom owned it.

Looks like it was sold in 2004 and has lost billions since being delisted by the New York Stock Exchange.

Once Viacom sold their interests the ineptitude of BBV's upper management was exposed. They ceased being proactive and instead reacted far too slowly to changes in the market. Their downfall was easy to see to anybody with access to the numbers.

Omaha
08-05-2010, 10:47 PM
Everyone stop illegally downloading copyrighted content right now.

It's that easy!

Ebolapox
08-05-2010, 10:49 PM
yeah, good luck stopping piracy.

even IF we can stop piracy in the USA (easier said than done), freaking china is KILLING IT these days. not only movies and music; jerseys, shoes, clothes, software, computers, servers, ram, universal remotes, you freaking name it.

DaneMcCloud
08-05-2010, 10:51 PM
yeah, good luck stopping piracy.

even IF we can stop piracy in the USA (easier said than done), freaking china is KILLING IT these days. not only movies and music; jerseys, shoes, clothes, software, computers, servers, ram, universal remotes, you freaking name it.

Russia's up there with China in terms of piracy, at least with movies and music.

"But..but! I wasn't going to buy it any way!".

Douchefucks.

Ebolapox
08-05-2010, 10:56 PM
Russia's up there with China in terms of piracy, at least with movies and music.

"But..but! I wasn't going to buy it any way!".

Douchefucks.

tell us how you really feel :p

the sad thing is, I've got a lot of friends who do a shit-ton of pirating. I'm not saying I haven't done any in the past (haven't in a LONG time, and even then, it was on a very small scale), but it's freaking sad seeing the level these people put it to. and their level is typical: it's almost literally impossible to stop, IMO. when you look at the raw level of stealing going on, it's tantamount to a mob breaking the glass of a storefront and cleaning it the fuck out.

:shake:

DaneMcCloud
08-05-2010, 10:58 PM
tell us how you really feel :p

the sad thing is, I've got a lot of friends who do a shit-ton of pirating. I'm not saying I haven't done any in the past (haven't in a LONG time, and even then, it was on a very small scale), but it's freaking sad seeing the level these people put it to. and their level is typical: it's almost literally impossible to stop, IMO. when you look at the raw level of stealing going on, it's tantamount to a mob breaking the glass of a storefront and cleaning it the fuck out.

:shake:

And yet those very same people will piss all over idiots who riot after sporting events, or embezzle or outright steal.

It's fucking weird. They ALL need a cockpunch.

Simply Red
08-05-2010, 11:04 PM
I just visualized how bad a cock-punch would hurt, that'd really/truly hurt, a lot.

CrazyPhuD
08-05-2010, 11:04 PM
yeah, good luck stopping piracy.

even IF we can stop piracy in the USA (easier said than done), freaking china is KILLING IT these days. not only movies and music; jerseys, shoes, clothes, software, computers, servers, ram, universal remotes, you freaking name it.

Actually stopping piracy from a technical point of view is relatively straight forward. The probably are addressing some of the business implications that result. If you want to choke off piracy you need to stop all DVD and bluray sales as we know it. This will happen within 5 years. Without easy access to content you're going to significantly hinder piracy. Cams can still be done to a degree but there are ways to stop them in their tracks too.

The problem we have today is the free mentality of society. Too many times people are used to getting things for free. However, if everyone gets their TV/movie content for free then who is going to pay to create it? That's the problem.

Part of the challenge the next N years is coming up with the business model and the distribution system to allow content producers to make money in today's world. What we have today likely isn't sustainable.

CrazyPhuD
08-05-2010, 11:06 PM
Russia's up there with China in terms of piracy, at least with movies and music.

"But..but! I wasn't going to buy it any way!".

Douchefucks.

Heh...if that's how people feel they should wait till it's on cable or hulu or netflix or something else.

Reerun_KC
08-05-2010, 11:12 PM
So Dane I am responsible for 20% of the jobs lost due to me downloading less than 4 movies and copying the ones I have from DVD to my laptop? Along with som random hairbands from the 80's that barely have music available anymore?

I would imagine that on a scale of 1 to 10. I would be consider a .25. It was cute that they sent me a letter and all. But honestly. I don't give a flip. I think there is a better chance of you cussing someone out here than me downloading enough music or movies to bother someone.

It used to be cool and fun to get around the stuff to get the movies or songs. But honestly there are cooler things to mess with in the underground world than piracy.

Omaha
08-05-2010, 11:13 PM
There have been several posts in this thread that try to justify the stealing, but it's all stupidity. Stealing is stealing. "I buy more than I steal" doesn't really make it OK to steal. I actually read that in this thread.

CrazyPhuD
08-05-2010, 11:18 PM
So Dane I am responsible for 20% of the jobs lost due to me downloading less than 4 movies and copying the ones I have from DVD to my laptop? Along with som random hairbands from the 80's that barely have music available anymore?

I would imagine that on a scale of 1 to 10. I would be consider a .25. It was cute that they sent me a letter and all. But honestly. I don't give a flip. I think there is a better chance of you cussing someone out here than me downloading enough music or movies to bother someone.

It used to be cool and fun to get around the stuff to get the movies or songs. But honestly there are cooler things to mess with in the underground world than piracy.

actually to be fair dane isn't fighting you as much as he's fighting the mentality that content is free I just need to go on the internet to find it. That's the issue, regardless of how many you download.

Now the reality is the industry is going to have to change with the times, but the truth is it will be extremely slow to do so. It's the nature of the beast.

Now on to the other point about but but it's just 1. Sure it is and the impact of you downloading one video is meaningless. But the impact of 1 million people each downloading 1 video....that starts to be real dollars and cents.... It's like voting. One vote is meaningless. 1 million votes is power.

Reerun_KC
08-05-2010, 11:22 PM
Dane. Let me ask u this? Have you ever watched any of go chiefs videos? Or the classic chiefs games in it's game thread? If so, you are In Violation of copyright laws. Watching film footage that is rebroadcasted without consent is the same damn thing.

Don't u agree. What about the networks? Should they be getting paid for your viewing of gifs, videos, or someones highlights for pre drafting.

Just saying.

Reerun_KC
08-05-2010, 11:24 PM
actually to be fair dane isn't fighting you as much as he's fighting the mentality that content is free I just need to go on the internet to find it. That's the issue, regardless of how many you download.

Now the reality is the industry is going to have to change with the times, but the truth is it will be extremely slow to do so. It's the nature of the beast.

Now on to the other point about but but it's just 1. Sure it is and the impact of you downloading one video is meaningless. But the impact of 1 million people each downloading 1 video....that starts to be real dollars and cents.... It's like voting. One vote is meaningless. 1 million votes is power.

I understand the concept and how it effects the industry and people. That is why it costs my family 60$ to go watch a movie anymore.

KCrockaholic
08-05-2010, 11:26 PM
I download movies on my PS3 all the time. I use ps3divx though. I don't know if that matters. I'm fine.

DaneMcCloud
08-05-2010, 11:37 PM
Dane. Let me ask u this? Have you ever watched any of go chiefs videos? Or the classic chiefs games in it's game thread?

Quite honestly the answer is no. Never.

If so, you are In Violation of copyright laws. Watching film footage that is rebroadcasted without consent is the same damn thing.

I am fully aware of IP laws, since I administered IP and copyrights for more than a decade at both Universal and Paramount.

Just saying.

What you're doing is trying to justify stealing. You're a thief, plain and simple.

Just sayin'.

Reerun_KC
08-05-2010, 11:45 PM
Quite honestly the answer is no. Never.



I am fully aware of IP laws, since I administered IP and copyrights for more than a decade at both Universal and Paramount.



What you're doing is trying to justify stealing. You're a thief, plain and simple.

Just sayin'.
But you didn't deny the fact that you have watched highlight videos or other videos that were put together by members of this board or other draft sites etc.

You van call me what you want I don't give a shit. But you actig like your perfect is laughable at best. When you k ow damn well you have watched videos here or other sites that were not legal in a legal sense.

Call me a thief or an asshole or what ever you chose. I know I have downloaded stuff and watched it or listened to it at times for years. But to say your not guilty is pretty funny. You better block all animated gifs of football plays in peoples signatures and avatars.

DaneMcCloud
08-05-2010, 11:53 PM
But you didn't deny the fact that you have watched highlight videos or other videos that were put together by members of this board or other draft sites etc.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

You van call me what you want I don't give a shit. But you actig like your perfect is laughable at best. When you k ow damn well you have watched videos here or other sites that were not legal in a legal sense.

Dude, what the fuck is wrong with you? I've never illegally downloaded music and I've never illegally downloaded a movie. I can't even watch Youtube on my main computer because the wireless router is three floors down and separated by concrete and steel.

Stop trying to justify YOUR actions by trying to insult me or my character.

Call me a thief or an asshole or what ever you chose. I know I have downloaded stuff and watched it or listened to it at times for years. But to say your not guilty is pretty funny. You better block all animated gifs of football plays in peoples signatures and avatars.

Actually, all signatures ARE blocked. And again, you're trying to justify your actions.

Furthermore, I don't visit this site to see someone's avatar. But you've illegally downloaded movies and music (and admitted it) for your own personal gain.

First, you need to shut the fuck up. Secondly, you need to take a long, hard look into the mirror because you're far too old to be rationalizing or justifying illegal activity.

Ebolapox
08-05-2010, 11:54 PM
But you didn't deny the fact that you have watched highlight videos or other videos that were put together by members of this board or other draft sites etc.

You van call me what you want I don't give a shit. But you actig like your perfect is laughable at best. When you k ow damn well you have watched videos here or other sites that were not legal in a legal sense.

Call me a thief or an asshole or what ever you chose. I know I have downloaded stuff and watched it or listened to it at times for years. But to say your not guilty is pretty funny. You better block all animated gifs of football plays in peoples signatures and avatars.

that's kinda douchy, dude. the fact that your spelling and typos were all over the place gives me the feeling that you were seething when you typed it. am I correct?

DaneMcCloud
08-05-2010, 11:55 PM
that's kinda douchy, dude. the fact that your spelling and typos were all over the place gives me the feeling that you were seething when you typed it. am I correct?

No, he's just drinking $40 dollar bottles of Scotch while defending his actions for not paying $.99 cents for a fucking movie or TV show.

chiefzilla1501
08-05-2010, 11:58 PM
I don't know if times have changed, but while I don't support piracy or illegal download (I buy all my shit on iTunes/Amazon, no matter how expensive), here's one thing that always bothered me. It would be one thing if I felt like I was stealing from the musicians, but in most cases, the musicians don't see a dime of your money anyway. Dane, correct me if I'm wrong, because you know the industry. But the impression I get is that if a musician isn't going to make money, they'll want to be heard. A lot of bands used to encourage bootlegging because they know that viral marketing is a hell of a lot more effective than forcing consumers to pay $1 per song just to listen to a track.

BWillie
08-06-2010, 12:00 AM
So Dane McCloud is Prince? Same guy? Wow.

DaneMcCloud
08-06-2010, 12:09 AM
I don't know if times have changed, but while I don't support piracy or illegal download (I buy all my shit on iTunes/Amazon, no matter how expensive), here's one thing that always bothered me. It would be one thing if I felt like I was stealing from the musicians, but in most cases, the musicians don't see a dime of your money anyway. Dane, correct me if I'm wrong, because you know the industry.

You're wrong.

This is a very complex conversation but essentially what happens (or used to happen, before the massive onset of piracy and the changing of the way record labels and publishers do business) is as follows:

1. Band signs record deal. Generally one record with an option for two more. The third record is dependent on the sales of the second record.

2. Band receives a "Recording Fund". This fund is generally no less than $500,000 dollars. From this fund, the band and record label hire a producer who in turns hires an engineer(s) and pays for studio time (likely about $2,000 per day in a "real" studio).

3. Record is completed and the band makes a video, generally about $250,000.00.

4. Band hits the road. Record company pays approximately $30k per month as tour support for the band.

5. Record label spends an additional $100-200k on promotions (Radio & TV ads, giveaways, etc.).

By the time the band's first record is complete, the video is shot and their out promoting, the band is in the hole to the record company by anywhere from $500k-750k before they even sell ONE RECORD. Once the band begins (hopefully) to sell records, they must pay the record company back for all of these advances (it's called "recoupment") before they see any earnings.

If the band flops, the band owes nothing contractually and the label takes a financial hit ("write off"). If the band meets or exceeds their recoupable amount, they then share in the profits, anywhere from 14-21% of the retail pricing.


But the impression I get is that if a musician isn't going to make money, they'll want to be heard. A lot of bands used to encourage bootlegging because they know that viral marketing is a hell of a lot more effective than forcing consumers to pay $1 per song just to listen to a track.

Bootlegging and "being heard" aren't the same. The only way to get on radio is by promoters, whether it be the record labels or "independent" promoters.

The internet is great and all, but last year alone only 2% of ALL albums released in the United States sold more than 5,000 copies.

Do the math.

Ebolapox
08-06-2010, 12:16 AM
...
The internet is great and all, but last year alone only 2% of ALL albums released in the United States sold more than 5,000 copies.

Do the math.

where is the money to be made here? that's a RIDICULOUSLY low total.

DaneMcCloud
08-06-2010, 12:24 AM
where is the money to be made here? that's a RIDICULOUSLY low total.

Well, the Disney kids are freaking DOMINATING. That's followed up by the American Idol kids.

After that, it's all the "Remastered Classics", like Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, etc.

Record labels just aren't signing and developing bands like they did in the 60's and 70's because it's just too expensive. They don't have the cash flow or the returns to be able to have 20-25 bands on their rosters, many of whom are on their first albums.

So short story long, it just doesn't exist. Superstar acts make money and the rest suffer.

Ebolapox
08-06-2010, 12:48 AM
and when the superstars slow down or go into a cave (as happens on occasion), where the hell is the next generation of superstars? that's what bothers me... I listen to the radio these days, and just don't hear many great new bands. granted, part of that is likely that I'm getting old and stuck on my tastes. I just don't see the depth of quality bands that was there in the past.

DaneMcCloud
08-06-2010, 12:51 AM
and when the superstars slow down or go into a cave (as happens on occasion), where the hell is the next generation of superstars? that's what bothers me... I listen to the radio these days, and just don't hear many great new bands. granted, part of that is likely that I'm getting old and stuck on my tastes. I just don't see the depth of quality bands that was there in the past.

Disney and American Idol.

The rest have to do it on their own, without a great studio, experienced engineers or great producers.

No one is making money. All the guys that can "play" are in Vegas lounge bands. All the guys that can write, play and produce are doing library music (i.e. background music for reality TV).

It's very bleak.

Reaper16
08-06-2010, 12:55 AM
All the guys that can "play" are in Vegas lounge bands. All the guys that can write, play and produce are doing library music (i.e. background music for reality TV).

Huh. I'm not finding any shortage of musicians making great, uncompromising music.

Ebolapox
08-06-2010, 12:56 AM
Disney and American Idol.

The rest have to do it on their own, without a great studio, experienced engineers or great producers.

No one is making money. All the guys that can "play" are in Vegas lounge bands. All the guys that can write, play and produce are doing library music (i.e. background music for reality TV).

It's very bleak.

the question is, how does one go about fixing the issue? I'm not convinced that preventing piracy is the fix-all that many have touted.

DaneMcCloud
08-06-2010, 12:56 AM
Huh. I'm not finding any shortage of musicians making great, uncompromising music.

Good for you.

But I'd be shocked if they own homes, let alone make millions like those in the past.

Reaper16
08-06-2010, 12:59 AM
Good for you.

But I'd be shocked if they own homes, let alone make millions like those in the past.
I'd be shocked too for most of 'em. If they did own homes then it's on the back of a non-musician job that they hold.

Ebolapox
08-06-2010, 12:59 AM
the thing is, I'm not sure if we can say that there aren't going to be breakthrough bands from time to time who eventually reach superstar status. those types of bands will always find success. what we lack today, IMO, is the depth of great bands. the cream of the crop will always be there. we lack the second and third tier of good to great bands that gives the variety of any musical generation.

DaneMcCloud
08-06-2010, 01:00 AM
the question is, how does one go about fixing the issue? I'm not convinced that preventing piracy is the fix-all that many have touted.

Preventing piracy is just a part of the answer. If there was more money available for people that work on the "business" side (producers, labels, A&R people, etc.) and there was more time to develop young acts, it would certainly help. But right now, that funding doesn't exist.

This cycle will need to run its course, which may take another five years or maybe even another decade before it sorts itself out.

Hopefully, people aren't so disenchanted and disenfranchised on the whole to take notice.

Reaper16
08-06-2010, 01:01 AM
the thing is, I'm not sure if we can say that there aren't going to be breakthrough bands from time to time who eventually reach superstar status. those types of bands will always find success. what we lack today, IMO, is the depth of great bands. the cream of the crop will always be there. we lack the second and third tier of good to great bands that gives the variety of any musical generation.
All we lack is great mainstream bands. We are in over our heads in artistically relevant bands - great musicians and songwriters - in many genres. It's just that they play radio unfriendly (read: good) music.

CrazyPhuD
08-06-2010, 01:04 AM
the question is, how does one go about fixing the issue? I'm not convinced that preventing piracy is the fix-all that many have touted.

Well if all music is free then how can anyone make money? If no one can make money then there is no new novel music.

The answer has to be in the technology to reduce the cost structure/get exposure etc. However there is no great venue at this time. Maybe there will be or maybe music will change.

DaneMcCloud
08-06-2010, 01:06 AM
All we lack is great mainstream bands. We are in over our heads in artistically relevant bands - great musicians and songwriters - in many genres. It's just that they play radio unfriendly (read: good) music.

I fully disagree.

I rarely, if ever, hear a "great" young musician.

Most don't have a style or sound of their own and most can't play outside of their specific genre. That doesn't meet the "great" test, IMO.

If we break it down further, there is no EVH, Randy Rhodes, Gary Moore, Yngwie Malmsteen, Steve Vai or Warren DeMartini of the past decade. No player that has transcended the genre and taken guitar to new heights.

There is no Neil Peart, Keith Moon, John Bonham or even Matt Cameron in the past decade.

There hasn't been a bassist with the impact of Chris Squire, Geddy Lee, Steve Harris, Billy Sheehan or John Entwhistle, let alone Jaco, Jeff Berlin or Stu Hamm.

And don't get me started on singers, Autotune and Melodyne.

It is just not the same.

Ebolapox
08-06-2010, 01:09 AM
All we lack is great mainstream bands. We are in over our heads in artistically relevant bands - great musicians and songwriters - in many genres. It's just that they play radio unfriendly (read: good) music.

true enough. I lost patience in the radio a long while back--they play the same damned songs by bands I couldn't give a crap about, followed by 20 minutes of commercials during a '30 minute commercial free ROCK BLOCK!'

one development I believe will prove to be huge for the next generation of 'great bands' is internet radio. you can hear bands and music that 99% of the time would never get play on mainstream stations. stuff that, in the past, would've been huge. that said, I'm not trendy enough to be an indie or underground music fan.

Fried Meat Ball!
08-06-2010, 04:55 AM
It's interesting to me how ideas change. I got freakin' KILLED on this board three years or so ago for my outspoken stance on piracy, and now it seems most people agree because of the cheaper alternatives piracy isn't OK.

So copying dvd's that I pay to rent is stealing now too? If they dont want them copied, they should make it impossible.

Yes. You paid to rent a license to view the movie for a set time period. If you have Netflix, you COULD keep the movie until you've had time to watch it. But instead you copy it, which by freakin' definition is piracy. How is that hard to understand?

Inspector
08-06-2010, 06:04 AM
You're wrong.

This is a very complex conversation but essentially what happens (or used to happen, before the massive onset of piracy and the changing of the way record labels and publishers do business) is as follows:

1. Band signs record deal. Generally one record with an option for two more. The third record is dependent on the sales of the second record.

2. Band receives a "Recording Fund". This fund is generally no less than $500,000 dollars. From this fund, the band and record label hire a producer who in turns hires an engineer(s) and pays for studio time (likely about $2,000 per day in a "real" studio).

3. Record is completed and the band makes a video, generally about $250,000.00.

4. Band hits the road. Record company pays approximately $30k per month as tour support for the band.

5. Record label spends an additional $100-200k on promotions (Radio & TV ads, giveaways, etc.).

By the time the band's first record is complete, the video is shot and their out promoting, the band is in the hole to the record company by anywhere from $500k-750k before they even sell ONE RECORD. Once the band begins (hopefully) to sell records, they must pay the record company back for all of these advances (it's called "recoupment") before they see any earnings.

If the band flops, the band owes nothing contractually and the label takes a financial hit ("write off"). If the band meets or exceeds their recoupable amount, they then share in the profits, anywhere from 14-21% of the retail pricing.




Bootlegging and "being heard" aren't the same. The only way to get on radio is by promoters, whether it be the record labels or "independent" promoters.

The internet is great and all, but last year alone only 2% of ALL albums released in the United States sold more than 5,000 copies.

Do the math.

Wow - Dane!! Thanks so much for your stance. What you described here is exactly the path my kid is on. Signed with EPIC records, video on VH1, been on hit TV shows, etc......

And what you have explained is exactly why it really ticks me off that some people think it's fine and dandy to just steal from others. I wonder if they shoplift their groceries. Might as well cause from where I sit there isn't much difference.

Maybe it's a maturity thing or maybe some people just simply have no personal integrity. Good grief, don't accidentally leave your keys in your car if you are ever around any of them.

My son's band is doing well, they are incredibly talented and make great music. It just bums me out to see how hard they work, all the travel and time away from home and family just to have these criminals feel they have the right to steal the fruits of their labor. It just makes me sick.

Hey you thieves out there, imagine your kid working his butt off to make something of his or herself and I came along and stole their paycheck. Would that seem cool to you then?

To quote my friend Dane, "JFC!!!":mad:

Reerun_KC
08-06-2010, 06:40 AM
that's kinda douchy, dude. the fact that your spelling and typos were all over the place gives me the feeling that you were seething when you typed it. am I correct?

Actually this site is not very user friendly with Iphones, I was typing that on my phone late last night half a sleep.

Its bulky and hard to use on mobile devices.

Reerun_KC
08-06-2010, 06:46 AM
Wow - Dane!! Thanks so much for your stance. What you described here is exactly the path my kid is on. Signed with EPIC records, video on VH1, been on hit TV shows, etc......

And what you have explained is exactly why it really ticks me off that some people think it's fine and dandy to just steal from others. I wonder if they shoplift their groceries. Might as well cause from where I sit there isn't much difference.

Maybe it's a maturity thing or maybe some people just simply have no personal integrity. Good grief, don't accidentally leave your keys in your car if you are ever around any of them.

My son's band is doing well, they are incredibly talented and make great music. It just bums me out to see how hard they work, all the travel and time away from home and family just to have these criminals feel they have the right to steal the fruits of their labor. It just makes me sick.

Hey you thieves out there, imagine your kid working his butt off to make something of his or herself and I came along and stole their paycheck. Would that seem cool to you then?

To quote my friend Dane, "JFC!!!":mad:

Congrats on your kids success and yes modern day technology does make things difficult for may different types of jobs, including this passion of your sons.

You think about it, but if one teenaged or pre-teen kid gets a song on his mobile device from a band like your sons, how many times to you think that those songs are bluetoothed to other kids... Great exposure of the band, but bad for the band and the money they are losing...

Baconeater
08-06-2010, 06:58 AM
It's interesting to me how ideas change. I got freakin' KILLED on this board three years or so ago for my outspoken stance on piracy, and now it seems most people agree because of the cheaper alternatives piracy isn't OK.

I think the reason you got killed was because that thread was in the Media Center, that's where a lot of the people who do this type of stuff hang out. I never even saw that thread until after you had left.

Reerun_KC
08-06-2010, 06:59 AM
What the **** is wrong with you?



Dude, what the **** is wrong with you? I've never illegally downloaded music and I've never illegally downloaded a movie. I can't even watch Youtube on my main computer because the wireless router is three floors down and separated by concrete and steel.

Stop trying to justify YOUR actions by trying to insult me or my character.



Actually, all signatures ARE blocked. And again, you're trying to justify your actions.

Furthermore, I don't visit this site to see someone's avatar. But you've illegally downloaded movies and music (and admitted it) for your own personal gain.

First, you need to shut the **** up. Secondly, you need to take a long, hard look into the mirror because you're far too old to be rationalizing or justifying illegal activity.

LMAO

Thanks for your guiding light Dane and thanks for making an example out of me for the whole world to see what a bad person I am and how not to do bad things...

This has been fun, but I am done with the justification and rationalizing my actions for all my illegal activity... I cant compete with perfection...

Reerun_KC
08-06-2010, 07:02 AM
I fully disagree.

I rarely, if ever, hear a "great" young musician.

Most don't have a style or sound of their own and most can't play outside of their specific genre. That doesn't meet the "great" test, IMO.

If we break it down further, there is no EVH, Randy Rhodes, Gary Moore, Yngwie Malmsteen, Steve Vai or Warren DeMartini of the past decade. No player that has transcended the genre and taken guitar to new heights.

There is no Neil Peart, Keith Moon, John Bonham or even Matt Cameron in the past decade.

There hasn't been a bassist with the impact of Chris Squire, Geddy Lee, Steve Harris, Billy Sheehan or John Entwhistle, let alone Jaco, Jeff Berlin or Stu Hamm.

And don't get me started on singers, Autotune and Melodyne.

It is just not the same.


Ah the good ol bands of the days gone by..... still to this day, Narvina killed music.

Chan93lx50
08-06-2010, 07:04 AM
So how do bands make money of the Zune Subscription. I use this for my daily music listening. I pay 15 bucks a month, I get 10 Free songs each month that I get to keep. I can download anything off thier site for free and use as long as I want to as long as I keep paying my subscription.

Reerun_KC
08-06-2010, 07:06 AM
No, he's just drinking $40 dollar bottles of Scotch while defending his actions for not paying $.99 cents for a ****ing movie or TV show.

Tell NBC, History Channel, Discovery, and the rest to take the videos down from their website or start charging... If you're going to get bent about watching TV shows online....


Again Dane, your generalization is quite amusing.... I find it funny that you know all the answers and know everything about me and my online adventures... You assume way too much...

Reerun_KC
08-06-2010, 07:10 AM
So how do bands make money of the Zune Subscription. I use this for my daily music listening. I pay 15 bucks a month, I get 10 Free songs each month that I get to keep. I can download anything off thier site for free and use as long as I want to as long as I keep paying my subscription.

Not sure how that works, I have an itunes and napster account that I download stuff from all the time... I am sure they have some deal with the record label where they pay a percentage back to it? Would be my guess...

I just PURCHASED the new Ratt album off on Itunes on April 15th of this year...

dirk digler
08-06-2010, 07:18 AM
Actually stopping piracy from a technical point of view is relatively straight forward. The probably are addressing some of the business implications that result. If you want to choke off piracy you need to stop all DVD and bluray sales as we know it. This will happen within 5 years. Without easy access to content you're going to significantly hinder piracy. Cams can still be done to a degree but there are ways to stop them in their tracks too.

Part of the challenge the next N years is coming up with the business model and the distribution system to allow content producers to make money in today's world. What we have today likely isn't sustainable.

This is why I don't feel sorry for the music industry and to a lesser extent the movie industry. Sorry Dane.

Before Napster exploded everyone was saying that online music distribution was the future yet the music industry had it head up their ass and still does today. People were telling them they all need to band together and form their own service but they freaking let a software company, Apple, come in and do what they should have been doing years earlier. Even 2 years ago they renegotiated their deal with Apple. You would think they would have had something done in those 6 years but no they are still a bunch of clueless idiots. To show how really stupid they are they think each song is worth $2.00. Apple told them to stfu no one is going buy songs for that amount and they are lucky people are going to pay .99. Apple did cave and offer DRM free songs for $1.29. I would be curious to see how many of those they sell.

And to make matters worse they send out the RIAA to sue grandmas and dead people and all that does is piss people off and make them want to do it more.

The movie industry isn't that much smarter they are just lucky their product is alot bigger to download than a 3mb song to put on Sally's ipod. It actually takes a little work to find a torrent site, download a 1GB-4GB file and put it on a DVD. Most normal people probably can't figure it out. Once mass people figure out streaming and there are better streaming products it is game over for the movie industry as well unless they pull their head out of their ass too.

If I was the movie industry I would come up with a service, device whatever to stream theatrical releases of movies on TV. Charge $10-12 and people can sit in their home and watch a brand new movie. That is the future whether they like it or not and they would make a trillion dollars. But I am not counting on them to actually use their brains and think.

dirk digler
08-06-2010, 07:21 AM
It's interesting to me how ideas change. I got freakin' KILLED on this board three years or so ago for my outspoken stance on piracy, and now it seems most people agree because of the cheaper alternatives piracy isn't OK.



That is because you acted like a flaming douchebag. :)

Reerun_KC
08-06-2010, 07:26 AM
true enough. I lost patience in the radio a long while back--they play the same damned songs by bands I couldn't give a crap about, followed by 20 minutes of commercials during a '30 minute commercial free ROCK BLOCK!'

one development I believe will prove to be huge for the next generation of 'great bands' is internet radio. you can hear bands and music that 99% of the time would never get play on mainstream stations. stuff that, in the past, would've been huge. that said, I'm not trendy enough to be an indie or underground music fan.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say its exposure and ease of access? I remember back in the day when you had to wait until friday or Sat night for Headbangers ball to see all your favorite bands and videos. Or wait for your monthly subscription to Hit Parader to show up. Now days its just a click away with your Iphone.

Back then you were anxiously awaiting a release date to go get the cassette or vynal.. Then you would copy that record to tape for your car. Which started all this copy writing stuff anyway. Everyone at some point copied someones cassette or record... BUT it wasnt on the scale as it is today.. Where you had to buy the whole cassette for 8$, now you can pick and chose songs for 1$.

at this point it becomes a numbers game. you have 2.5 million people wanting one song in 1984, they bought 2.5 million cassettes at 8$, now they download that one song for 1$ and forget the rest of the album. How is that going sustain your industry? Losing money on each album? Then you add the ease of piracy today with the technology and its even more devastating to an already failing industry.

Yes sadly piracy is an issue and with a bijillion global internet users, its going to be hard to stop. You have people that are sharing millions of billions of files a day. Some how the brains in music industry need to accept it and embrace that it happens.. Figure out how to use it as a tool to rebound and move forward. I dont have the answers on how to fix it, I just buy what I want or IF I cant buy some obscure hairband anymore, I search the far corners of the earth until I find it.

Omaha
08-06-2010, 08:18 AM
where is the money to be made here? that's a RIDICULOUSLY low total.

Considering the local indie musicians who are putting out CDs each year in Omaha alone, I'm surprised it's over 1%.

Rausch
08-06-2010, 08:20 AM
Ah the good ol bands of the days gone by..... still to this day, Narvina killed music.

Nirvana killed 80's glam rock and boy bands...

Omaha
08-06-2010, 08:21 AM
and when the superstars slow down or go into a cave (as happens on occasion), where the hell is the next generation of superstars? that's what bothers me... I listen to the radio these days, and just don't hear many great new bands. granted, part of that is likely that I'm getting old and stuck on my tastes. I just don't see the depth of quality bands that was there in the past.

The great new music is out there. You just have to work a lot harder to find it these days.

Omaha
08-06-2010, 08:30 AM
Ah the good ol bands of the days gone by..... still to this day, Narvina SAVED music.

FYP! :D

Omaha
08-06-2010, 08:31 AM
Nirvana killed 80's glam rock and boy bands...

They clearly didn't get the boy bands dead enough....

dirk digler
08-06-2010, 08:33 AM
I am going to go out on a limb here and say its exposure and ease of access? I remember back in the day when you had to wait until friday or Sat night for Headbangers ball to see all your favorite bands and videos. Or wait for your monthly subscription to Hit Parader to show up. Now days its just a click away with your Iphone.

Back then you were anxiously awaiting a release date to go get the cassette or vynal.. Then you would copy that record to tape for your car. Which started all this copy writing stuff anyway. Everyone at some point copied someones cassette or record... BUT it wasnt on the scale as it is today.. Where you had to buy the whole cassette for 8$, now you can pick and chose songs for 1$.

at this point it becomes a numbers game. you have 2.5 million people wanting one song in 1984, they bought 2.5 million cassettes at 8$, now they download that one song for 1$ and forget the rest of the album. How is that going sustain your industry? Losing money on each album? Then you add the ease of piracy today with the technology and its even more devastating to an already failing industry.

Yes sadly piracy is an issue and with a bijillion global internet users, its going to be hard to stop. You have people that are sharing millions of billions of files a day. Some how the brains in music industry need to accept it and embrace that it happens.. Figure out how to use it as a tool to rebound and move forward. I dont have the answers on how to fix it, I just buy what I want or IF I cant buy some obscure hairband anymore, I search the far corners of the earth until I find it.

Ahh I remember those days. I use to wait in lines to buy a tape from one of my favorite 80's bands.

In IMVHO the music industry only has itself to blame. The writing was on the wall years ago and they still haven't figured it out. It is hard to make an industry successful when they are run by a bunch of incompetents.

Reerun_KC
08-06-2010, 08:34 AM
FYP! :D

In In your opinion, but as many have stated the talent and originality is long gone.. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I miss the talent and the musicianship. Its been a long time....

Reerun_KC
08-06-2010, 08:35 AM
The great new music is out there. You just have to work a lot harder to find it these days.

I wont disagree with that statement...

Reerun_KC
08-06-2010, 08:36 AM
BTW Dane! I still love you man! We might have our little spats, but you will always be my favorite.

Omaha
08-06-2010, 08:46 AM
In In your opinion, but as many have stated the talent and originality is long gone.. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I miss the talent and the musicianship. Its been a long time....

Talent & musicianship is still available in high quantity. It may not be in the form of a shredding '80s guitar solo as often as you'd like, but it's out there.

Reerun_KC
08-06-2010, 08:49 AM
Talent & musicianship is still available in high quantity. It may not be in the form of a shredding '80s guitar solo as often as you'd like, but it's out there.

There are some out there yes... I do listen to alot of the new bands that come out, but most of them are not main stream.

But most of what you hear on the radio isnt quality, its mass produced with little to any feeling behind the music from the bands themselves.

JMO, not stating it as fact....

Deberg_1990
08-06-2010, 08:53 AM
Well, the Disney kids are freaking DOMINATING. That's followed up by the American Idol kids.




I wonder how Nashville is doing? IMO, Country music is the new Pop. Most of the stuff i hear on Country radio these days isnt really Country IMO.

Old pop radio got splintered off in so many directions over the years: rap, alternative, R&B, etc....

KCUnited
08-06-2010, 08:57 AM
I'm indifferent on the pirating thing, but I'm a hard copy collector. I'm a 3-6 cd a month guy and nothing beats a package of cds in the mail. Store mine in cd books with the booklet in one slot and the cd in the back slot, love them books like children.

Sometimes I'll buy 2 copies and leave one unopened.

Reerun_KC
08-06-2010, 08:58 AM
I wonder how Nashville is doing? IMO, Country music is the new Pop. Most of the stuff i hear on Country radio these days isnt really Country IMO.

Old pop radio got splintered off in so many directions over the years: rap, alternative, R&B, etc....

Actually I think the country music industry is rocking along... I find myself listening to more of it at times than I do mainstream radio stations...

I have been a sirius subscriber since 2005 and my favorites are Hair Nation and The Highway...

Demonpenz
08-06-2010, 09:04 AM
I buy cd's download stuff not because of money, hell I think the inside of the cd's artwork is worth 5 bucks, but I like to be able to watch movies on my zune when I am on the go. It's a convience thing for me. I just looked up how to get movies on my zune the proper way and there is alot of shit to fill out. Fuck that.

Omaha
08-06-2010, 10:28 AM
There are some out there yes... I do listen to alot of the new bands that come out, but most of them are not main stream.

But most of what you hear on the radio isnt quality, its mass produced with little to any feeling behind the music from the bands themselves.

JMO, not stating it as fact....

It depends what radio you're listening to. I agree with you regarding our local radio stations, but I listen to Sirius. Fortunately there are a handful of stations on there that I absolutely love.

Like I said earlier. There's still plenty of great stuff out there, it's just a little harder to find.

vailpass
08-06-2010, 10:29 AM
FTR, could you share what a thief talks like. Seems like that'd be a useful tidbit of info....

Someone who tells you it is okay to take things that belong to others without paying for them because it isn't fair that they have it and are asking you to pay for it is talking like a thief.
Pretty clear?

Omaha
08-06-2010, 10:34 AM
I'm indifferent on the pirating thing, but I'm a hard copy collector. I'm a 3-6 cd a month guy and nothing beats a package of cds in the mail. Store mine in cd books with the booklet in one slot and the cd in the back slot, love them books like children.

Sometimes I'll buy 2 copies and leave one unopened.

I feeel the same way. I'm reluctant to purchase individual songs/entire albums on itunes because I love having the entire package. I grew up flipping through my dad's record collection & I want my boys to be able to do the same with my CDs rather than just scrolling through my itunes library.

I usually buy the CD & make a copy so I can keep the original in perfect condition. I had a bunch of CDs stolen from my Jeep several years ago and that really sucked. Now I only risk the copies.

Omaha
08-06-2010, 10:36 AM
Actually I think the country music industry is rocking along... I find myself listening to more of it at times than I do mainstream radio stations...

I have been a sirius subscriber since 2005 and my favorites are Hair Nation and The Highway...

I think I know why you're having trouble finding new music.... :D

MTG#10
08-06-2010, 10:36 AM
Yes. You paid to rent a license to view the movie for a set time period. If you have Netflix, you COULD keep the movie until you've had time to watch it. But instead you copy it, which by freakin' definition is piracy. How is that hard to understand?

When I copy a dvd I get from netflix I am not affecting the movie industry's pocketbooks, so no I dont consider it stealing at all. Maybe "by law" it is, but there are a lot of stupid laws that are based on someone's opinion and morals. If I was actually stealing dvd's off the shelf, or somehow hacked into netflix.com and set up a free membership, that would be stealing.

In my opinion, someone cant be stolen from if they haven't suffered some kind of loss. The movie industry isnt losing any money by me copying netflix dvd's, because I wouldnt buy the dvd's anyway. You cant lose something you never would have had in the first place. If it was impossible to copy dvd's I still wouldn't buy them. However, they are making money from me because of my netflix subscription, and so are the manufacturers and resellers of dvd-r's. Just doing my part to help the economy. :D

Omaha
08-06-2010, 10:38 AM
Someone who tells you it is okay to take things that belong to others without paying for them because it isn't fair that they have it and are asking you to pay for it is talking like a thief.
Pretty clear?

Yup. Anyone making excuses for or trying to rationalize stealing sounds like a thief to me.

DaneMcCloud
08-06-2010, 10:39 AM
This is why I don't feel sorry for the music industry and to a lesser extent the movie industry. Sorry Dane.

Before Napster exploded everyone was saying that online music distribution was the future yet the music industry had it head up their ass and still does today. People were telling them they all need to band together and form their own service but they freaking let a software company, Apple, come in and do what they should have been doing years earlier. Even 2 years ago they renegotiated their deal with Apple. You would think they would have had something done in those 6 years but no they are still a bunch of clueless idiots. To show how really stupid they are they think each song is worth $2.00. Apple told them to stfu no one is going buy songs for that amount and they are lucky people are going to pay .99. Apple did cave and offer DRM free songs for $1.29. I would be curious to see how many of those they sell.

And to make matters worse they send out the RIAA to sue grandmas and dead people and all that does is piss people off and make them want to do it more.

The movie industry isn't that much smarter they are just lucky their product is alot bigger to download than a 3mb song to put on Sally's ipod. It actually takes a little work to find a torrent site, download a 1GB-4GB file and put it on a DVD. Most normal people probably can't figure it out. Once mass people figure out streaming and there are better streaming products it is game over for the movie industry as well unless they pull their head out of their ass too.

If I was the movie industry I would come up with a service, device whatever to stream theatrical releases of movies on TV. Charge $10-12 and people can sit in their home and watch a brand new movie. That is the future whether they like it or not and they would make a trillion dollars. But I am not counting on them to actually use their brains and think.

This is fucking bullshit.

So, because the music and movie industry didn't come up with a solution that you were happy with, the fact that the industry lost billions is suddenly okay?

Gimme a fucking break.

DaneMcCloud
08-06-2010, 10:43 AM
I don't have time to address all the thieves in this thread today but needless to say, if you copy a Netflix DVD, you ARE stealing.

And if you weren't going to buy it, what gives you the right to possess a copy?

MTG#10
08-06-2010, 10:44 AM
I don't have time to address all the thieves in this thread today but needless to say, if you copy a Netflix DVD, you ARE stealing.


And thats YOUR opinion. I disagree.

Omaha
08-06-2010, 10:46 AM
When I copy a dvd I get from netflix I am not affecting the movie industry's pocketbooks, so no I dont consider it stealing at all. Maybe "by law" it is, but there are a lot of stupid laws that are based on someone's opinion and morals. If I was actually stealing dvd's off the shelf, or somehow hacked into netflix.com and set up a free membership, that would be stealing.

In my opinion, someone cant be stolen from if they haven't suffered some kind of loss. The movie industry isnt losing any money by me copying netflix dvd's, because I wouldnt buy the dvd's anyway. You cant lose something you never would have had in the first place. If it was impossible to copy dvd's I still wouldn't buy them. However, they are making money from me because of my netflix subscription, and so are the manufacturers and resellers of dvd-r's. Just doing my part to help out the economy. :D

You now own the movie for the price of renting it. You didn't pay to own it. You paid to rent it. If you want to own the movie, pay for it.

The "It's not stealing because I'd never actually buy it" argument is retarded.

If I steal a Mac, can I claim it's not stealing because I'd never actually BUY a Mac? Hell no!

Omaha
08-06-2010, 10:47 AM
And thats YOUR opinion. I disagree.

That's actually not an opinion. That's the law.

DaneMcCloud
08-06-2010, 10:49 AM
And thats YOUR opinion. I disagree.

It's not an opinion, Dummy.

You're BREAKING THE LAW.

Reerun_KC
08-06-2010, 11:05 AM
It's not an opinion, Dummy.

You're BREAKING THE LAW.

You still going to be my friend? :huh:

Reaper16
08-06-2010, 11:09 AM
I fully disagree.

I rarely, if ever, hear a "great" young musician.

Most don't have a style or sound of their own and most can't play outside of their specific genre. That doesn't meet the "great" test, IMO.

If we break it down further, there is no EVH, Randy Rhodes, Gary Moore, Yngwie Malmsteen, Steve Vai or Warren DeMartini of the past decade. No player that has transcended the genre and taken guitar to new heights.

There is no Neil Peart, Keith Moon, John Bonham or even Matt Cameron in the past decade.

There hasn't been a bassist with the impact of Chris Squire, Geddy Lee, Steve Harris, Billy Sheehan or John Entwhistle, let alone Jaco, Jeff Berlin or Stu Hamm.

And don't get me started on singers, Autotune and Melodyne.

It is just not the same.
You seem to have a bias towards virtuoso musicianship and against stuff like hip-hop or electronic music.

Take, for instance, the guys in Agalloch (IMO the best band in America or any genre). None of them are virtuoso musicians but they play brilliant music. Should I be using a different phrase to describe these non-virtuoso players? Are there simply plenty of great "music players" as opposed to "musicians?" I don't know. What I do know is that there is a tremendous deal of excellent music out there these days, a lot of it being seventeen trillion times better than, say, Alter Bridge (a band I mention only because you vigorously defended them here once).

dirk digler
08-06-2010, 11:14 AM
This is fucking bullshit.

So, because the music and movie industry didn't come up with a solution that you were happy with, the fact that the industry lost billions is suddenly okay?

Gimme a fucking break.

They didn't and still haven't come up with a solution ANYONE is happy with. That is why Apple was able to fill the void and pretty much owns the record companies until they can some how manage to pull their collective heads out of their asses.

DaneMcCloud
08-06-2010, 11:15 AM
You seem to have a bias towards virtuoso musicianship and against stuff like hip-hop or electronic music.

Take, for instance, the guys in Agalloch (IMO the best band in America or any genre). None of them are virtuoso musicians but they play brilliant music. Should I be using a different phrase to describe these non-virtuoso players? Are there simply plenty of great "music players" as opposed to "musicians?" I don't know. What I do know is that there is a tremendous deal of excellent music out there these days, a lot of it being seventeen trillion times better than, say, Alter Bridge (a band I mention only because you vigorously defended them here once).

Music is a matter of taste.

Being a great player is not.

You specifically mentioned "great players". Well, they just don't exist in today's music. There are no groundbreaking guitarists, bassist, drummers or singers. For the most part, these guys can barely fucking play their instruments or sing, AT ALL.

Pro Tools and programs like it give audio engineers and producers unprecedented means to alter recorded sound. Drummer can't play in time? Use Beat Detective. Drums were poorly recorded? Use Sound Replacer and choose from thousands of well recorded drum samples.

Can't play your guitar or bass? Shift them in time. Can't tune? Use Melodyne Editor to properly tune. Can't get a "proper" guitar or bass sound? Take a direct signal and re-amp into a great sounding rig.

Can't sing? Use Melodyne or Autotune to "magically" put singers in time and in proper pitch.

All of this has led to bands that can't play, but yet sell records (i.e. Jonas Brothers, et al).

And you're probably right: I don't have much respect for people making electronic music because all it takes is a computer and a few software programs to "create" music, even though the majority of that music uses loops, prerecorded beats and pre-programmed arpeggios.

Again, go ahead an name some "great players" from this past decade.

ElGringo
08-06-2010, 11:16 AM
I pirate pretty much any movie I want to watch, and do pirate TV shows. I however have the option of doing this, not watching the things I like (well, for the TV shows anyway) or go to the local vendor and buy their pirated copy (which is almost always a very low quality). I admit my circumstances don't meet others, but someone tell me, what other option should I take. Netflix and others are not an option as I have no credit/debit card, and can not get one as an american in Mexico I can't have a bank account. Hulu and the like are also not an option as they are limited to only users in the United States.

DaneMcCloud
08-06-2010, 11:17 AM
They didn't and still haven't come up with a solution ANYONE is happy with. That is why Apple was able to fill the void and pretty much owns the record companies until they can some how manage to pull their collective heads out of their asses.

Give me a fucking BREAK.

iTunes did more than a BILLION dollars in downloads last year. Amazon's numbers are consistently trending upwards.

Netflix and Redbox are HUGE.

You need to pull YOUR head out of your ass.

DaneMcCloud
08-06-2010, 11:22 AM
They didn't and still haven't come up with a solution ANYONE is happy with. That is why Apple was able to fill the void and pretty much owns the record companies until they can some how manage to pull their collective heads out of their asses.

For Fuck's Sake, "Owns the record companies"?

LMAO

Don't you realize that without the licenses given by the record companies and publishers, iTunes and Amazon's service would not exist?

Apple keeps 35% of each downloaded sale. The other 65% is split between the record companies and publishers. Furthermore, not everything is available via iTunes because many artists don't want their music sold in an mp3 format.

You really don't know what you're talking about.

dirk digler
08-06-2010, 11:25 AM
Give me a fucking BREAK.

iTunes did more than a BILLION dollars in downloads last year. Amazon's numbers are consistently trending upwards.

Netflix and Redbox are HUGE.

You need to pull YOUR head out of your ass.

What? Apple owns Itunes not the record companies. Amazon owns their service not the record companies. I am talking about the record companies and even the movie industry owning their own service to distribute their content electronically.

DaneMcCloud
08-06-2010, 11:28 AM
What? Apple owns Itunes not the record companies. Amazon owns their service not the record companies. I am talking about the record companies and even the movie industry owning their own service to distribute their content electronically.

You're missing the point, entirely.

Apple appealed to the record companies because it meant that they would stay in the record business and not get caught up in digital distribution.

It was a win-win for both.

Movie studios and record companies aren't interested and have never been interested in setting up digital distribution. I can guarantee that they're more than happy with iTunes and Amazon as their distributors and it's virtually no different than the "middleman" that used to exist in the analog world.

Why do you think the prices went from $14.99 and up to $7.99-$9.99? They cut out the Middleman in terms of distribution. CD's were sold for $8 a pop to middlemen who then sold them to retail outlets.

Those days are long gone.

CaliforniaChief
08-06-2010, 11:34 AM
Again, go ahead an name some "great players" from this past decade.

YOU, sir...are in serious need of Bieber Fever. :D