PDA

View Full Version : Life Father Nearly Beats His 2 Year Old to Death Teaching Him to Box


Deberg_1990
08-05-2010, 11:07 AM
:facepalm:


http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/05/florida.boxing.baby/index.html?hpt=T2



Miami, Florida (CNN) -- A Florida man who admitted to the near-fatal beating of his 2-year-old son while teaching him how to box remained behind bars Thursday after a judge charged him with second-degree murder and denied him bond.

Lee Willie Dejesus, 23, of Homestead, appeared in court Wednesday night wearing a green protective vest, reserved for those on suicide watch, reported CNN affiliate WFOR.

His son -- identified by CNN affiliate WSVN as Willy Brown -- was on life support Wednesday and not expected to recover from his injuries, said Ed Griffith, spokesman for the Miami-Dade state attorney's office.

Prosecutors said they plan to file first-degree murder charges once the child dies.

Miami-Dade police said Dejesus was watching the child while his mother was at work Monday night.

He told police that he put on boxing gloves and struck the child about 15 times on his face, head, torso and shoulders over a period of 15 minutes, punching him so hard at one point that the boy fell off the bed and struck his head on the tile floor.

The child was rushed to Children's Hospital where he underwent surgery for bleeding on the brain. Griffith said the boy may be brain dead.

A criminal complaint alleges that Dejesus waited to call for medical help for as long as an hour after the boy became unresponsive.

He eventually called 911 after the boy's lips became blue, according to the complaint.

Dejesus initially told police that the boy was beaten by a babysitter before admitting he did it, the complaint says.

Dicky McElephant
08-05-2010, 11:08 AM
JFC. Boxing a two year old?


Somebody please end this guys life quickly. And make him suffer.

SnakeXJones
08-05-2010, 11:09 AM
Those pigtails are gonna come in handy in prison

Detoxing
08-05-2010, 11:12 AM
Fucking POS.

wutamess
08-05-2010, 11:14 AM
As bad as it sounds... It may not be so bad. I'd play with my 2yo with boxing gloves. more pushing him with hits instead of actual hits. Whatever, the case... It sounds like it'd be an aweful ordeal to go through. Playful game that went wrong.

I'd see if there was actual other damage to indicate that the little boy was hit too hard. But if the only injury was head trauma because of the fall this might be a game each one of us dad's would play with our kids.

Dayze
08-05-2010, 11:14 AM
things will not end well for this guy.

ChiTown
08-05-2010, 11:14 AM
JFC. Boxing a two year old?


Somebody please end this guys life quickly. And make him suffer.

Flaming nuthooks, hanging from an aids tree, which was watered with anti-freeze

Dicky McElephant
08-05-2010, 11:15 AM
As bad as it sounds... It may not be so bad. I'd play with my 2yo with boxing gloves. more pushing him with hits instead of actual hits. Whatever, the case... It sounds like it'd be an aweful ordeal to go through. Playful game that went wrong.

I'd see if there was actual other damage to indicate that the little boy was hit too hard. But if the only injury was head trauma because of the fall this might be a game each one of us dad's would play with our kids.

:spock:

He told police that he put on boxing gloves and struck the child about 15 times on his face, head, torso and shoulders over a period of 15 minutes, punching him so hard at one point that the boy fell off the bed and struck his head on the tile floor.

Coogs
08-05-2010, 11:17 AM
As bad as it sounds... It may not be so bad. I'd play with my 2yo with boxing gloves. more pushing him with hits instead of actual hits. Whatever, the case... It sounds like it'd be an aweful ordeal to go through. Playful game that went wrong.

I'd see if there was actual other damage to indicate that the little boy was hit too hard. But if the only injury was head trauma because of the fall this might be a game each one of us dad's would play with our kids.

:shake:

He told police that he put on boxing gloves and struck the child about 15 times on his face, head, torso and shoulders over a period of 15 minutes, punching him so hard at one point that the boy fell off the bed and struck his head on the tile floor.

The child was rushed to Children's Hospital where he underwent surgery for bleeding on the brain. Griffith said the boy may be brain dead.

A criminal complaint alleges that Dejesus waited to call for medical help for as long as an hour after the boy became unresponsive.

He eventually called 911 after the boy's lips became blue, according to the complaint.

Donger
08-05-2010, 11:17 AM
As bad as it sounds... It may not be so bad. I'd play with my 2yo with boxing gloves. more pushing him with hits instead of actual hits. Whatever, the case... It sounds like it'd be an aweful ordeal to go through. Playful game that went wrong.

I'd see if there was actual other damage to indicate that the little boy was hit too hard. But if the only injury was head trauma because of the fall this might be a game each one of us dad's would play with our kids.

I was just about to write, "Does anyone know where wutmaess is?"

You've got issues, friend.

Detoxing
08-05-2010, 11:19 AM
As bad as it sounds... It may not be so bad. I'd play with my 2yo with boxing gloves. more pushing him with hits instead of actual hits. Whatever, the case... It sounds like it'd be an aweful ordeal to go through. Playful game that went wrong.

I'd see if there was actual other damage to indicate that the little boy was hit too hard. But if the only injury was head trauma because of the fall this might be a game each one of us dad's would play with our kids.

I get what your saying. But the article clearly states that he was being hit too hard. Some playful taps to the shoulders and body are one thing, but punching your kid in the head so hard that he falls off the bed......

Donger
08-05-2010, 11:20 AM
I get what your saying. But the article clearly states that he was being hit too hard. Some playful taps to the shoulders and body are one thing, but punching your kid in the head so hard that he falls off the bed......

With a f*cking TWO year old? What possible purpose can even play fighting with a two year old serve?

Deberg_1990
08-05-2010, 11:23 AM
What possible purpose can even play fighting with a two year old serve?


Maybe he needed to toughen him up for the mean streets of pre-school

wutamess
08-05-2010, 11:23 AM
:shake:

I know it sounds bad... But push hits can be exagerrated as "struck him so hard". You guys never played boxing with your son(s)? You know how they like to get hit softly and fall around and stuff. How do we know this isn't the case?

This sounds like playing going wrong. If the kid wasn't on the bed, we might not even be hearing this story.

Now if the report is actual factual with HARD (instead of playful soft) hitting to head, torso, etc, then I'm with you guys. But I'd feel horrible if this was pent against me and all I was doing was (gently) playing with my kids and the story got twisted.

Detoxing
08-05-2010, 11:24 AM
With a f*cking TWO year old? What possible purpose can even play fighting with a two year old serve?

Hrmm...yeah, maybe 2 is a bit young. But I think it's perfectly fine with a 3-4 yr old.

BIG_DADDY
08-05-2010, 11:25 AM
With a f*cking TWO year old? What possible purpose can even play fighting with a two year old serve?

I don't know, my kid just turned 3 and can throw a mean arm bar on you from the mount already.

Donger
08-05-2010, 11:25 AM
I know it sounds bad... But push hits can be exagerrated as "struck him so hard". You guys never played boxing with your son(s)? You know how they like to get hit softly and fall around and stuff. How do we know this isn't the case?

This sounds like playing going wrong. If the kid wasn't on the bed, we might not even be hearing this story.

Now if the report is actual factual with HARD (instead of playful soft) hitting to head, torso, etc, then I'm with you guys. But I'd feel horrible if this was pent against me and all I was doing was (gently) playing with my kids and the story got twisted.

Yes, all good fun.

punching him so hard at one point that the boy fell off the bed and struck his head on the tile floor.

Demonpenz
08-05-2010, 11:25 AM
got to man up worlds a tough place

Dicky McElephant
08-05-2010, 11:25 AM
I know it sounds bad... But push hits can be exagerrated as "struck him so hard". You guys never played boxing with your son(s)? You know how they like to get hit softly and fall around and stuff. How do we know this isn't the case?

This sounds like playing going wrong. If the kid wasn't on the bed, we might not even be hearing this story.

Now if the report is actual factual with HARD (instead of playful soft) hitting to head, torso, etc, then I'm with you guys. But I'd feel horrible if this was pent against me and all I was doing was (gently) playing with my kids and the story got twisted.

I'm going to assume that it wasn't just a playful game. He waited an hour before he called anyone...and then he tried to pin it on the babysitter.

Demonpenz
08-05-2010, 11:26 AM
Honestly this is why I like k-1 fighting better, 2 year olds ususally leave the reverse arm bar wide the fuck open.

wutamess
08-05-2010, 11:26 AM
With a f*cking TWO year old? What possible purpose can even play fighting with a two year old serve?

Donger. Have you never wrestled with your son? What's the difference between you throwing him on the bed and he falls off and hits his head on the floor, then you're painted as the child abuser who threw his son off the bed?

This article is very slanted. Like I said... If it stated he had injuries to the head shoulders and torso then burn the fugger's assole shut with repeated incents. I can only assume the only injury the child suffered was the head injury as I'm sure cnn would've reported all the injuries. But this seems like playing gone wrong.

Detoxing
08-05-2010, 11:27 AM
I know it sounds bad... But push hits can be exagerrated as "struck him so hard". You guys never played boxing with your son(s)? You know how they like to get hit softly and fall around and stuff. How do we know this isn't the case?

This sounds like playing going wrong. If the kid wasn't on the bed, we might not even be hearing this story.

Now if the report is actual factual with HARD (instead of playful soft) hitting to head, torso, etc, then I'm with you guys. But I'd feel horrible if this was pent against me and all I was doing was (gently) playing with my kids and the story got twisted.

I agree. Wrestling and play fighting with your son is not something out of the ordinary. Obviously if you are playing and you hit the kid hard enough to where he is crying, that's a problem.

But if its just soft play fighting and the kid is laughing and enjoying it, then I see no problem.

Detoxing
08-05-2010, 11:28 AM
I don't know, my kid just turned 3 and can throw a mean arm bar on you from the mount already.

ROFL

Cave Johnson
08-05-2010, 11:29 AM
Kid had a weak chin.... clearly he's no Julio Cesar Chavez in the making.

ChiTown
08-05-2010, 11:29 AM
I know it sounds bad... But push hits can be exagerrated as "struck him so hard". You guys never played boxing with your son(s)? You know how they like to get hit softly and fall around and stuff. How do we know this isn't the case?

This sounds like playing going wrong. If the kid wasn't on the bed, we might not even be hearing this story.

Now if the report is actual factual with HARD (instead of playful soft) hitting to head, torso, etc, then I'm with you guys. But I'd feel horrible if this was pent against me and all I was doing was (gently) playing with my kids and the story got twisted.

Let's just say this plain as day - you are wrong. You don't do this shit with a 2 year old kid. You don't smack your kids hard in the head, chest or torso - ever. I have a teenager, and we play around, but NEVER do I strike him in an area that could be dangerous. If I accidentally do so, it would only be once, then the playing stops, and I apologize for the miss-hit. This POS repeatedly beat his son, thinking he was Julio Ceasar Chavez . Seriously, wake the fuck up.

MOhillbilly
08-05-2010, 11:29 AM
Guy needs a big time boot party.

Mile High Mania
08-05-2010, 11:30 AM
"He eventually called 911 after the boy's lips became blue, according to the complaint."

Solid parenting.

Deberg_1990
08-05-2010, 11:31 AM
Donger. Have you never wrestled with your son? What's the difference between you throwing him on the bed and he falls off and hits his head on the floor, then you're painted as the child abuser who threw his son off the bed?

This article is very slanted. Like I said... If it stated he had injuries to the head shoulders and torso then burn the fugger's assole shut with repeated incents. I can only assume the only injury the child suffered was the head injury as I'm sure cnn would've reported all the injuries. But this seems like playing gone wrong.

Dude, i see what your saying...i really do...

But you dont put boxing gloves on a 2 year old and smack him around in the head....over and over.....

Donger
08-05-2010, 11:31 AM
I don't know, my kid just turned 3 and can throw a mean arm bar on you from the mount already.

Most kids are just walking at two, BD. There's a difference between two and three.

MOhillbilly
08-05-2010, 11:31 AM
Let's just say this plain as day - you are wrong. You don't do this shit with a 2 year old kid. You don't smack your kids hard in the head, chest or torso - ever. I have a teenager, and we play around, but NEVER do I strike him in an area that could be dangerous. If I accidentally do so, it would only be once, then the playing stops, and I apologize for the miss-hit. This POS repeatedly beat his son, thinking he was Julio Ceasar Chavez . Seriously, wake the **** up.

agreed i grew up in a family of men. wasnt a woman born into the family for 55 years. We would rough house like crazy but never a black eye, just bruised egos.
Typrwriter FTW!!

KCUnited
08-05-2010, 11:32 AM
My 2 year old can burp the alphabet and play South of Heaven on the drums, but I never put my hands on him.

Donger
08-05-2010, 11:33 AM
Donger. Have you never wrestled with your son? What's the difference between you throwing him on the bed and he falls off and hits his head on the floor, then you're painted as the child abuser who threw his son off the bed?

This article is very slanted. Like I said... If it stated he had injuries to the head shoulders and torso then burn the fugger's assole shut with repeated incents. I can only assume the only injury the child suffered was the head injury as I'm sure cnn would've reported all the injuries. But this seems like playing gone wrong.

Did you even read the story or the multiple cuts which state that HE HIT THE KID SO HARD...?

As to your question, sure, I play fight with my son (and my daughter). They are eight and six, however.

allen_kcCard
08-05-2010, 11:33 AM
WTF....

Did he really beat him? Or just make a lapse in judgement when he "boxed" the boy while he was standing on a bed where he could fall off and hit the floor? I thought at first that he was full on punching him, and that was where the injuries came from, but reading into it I think now that he gut hurt when he fell. The part about not calling 911 is more damning, but even that can be seen in a variety of ways. The lying that it was a babysitter is pretty much black and white though.

This article could have been written in another way to completely change the inflection...like, Father was playing with his son pretending to box, was done in poor judgement on a bed and when the young boy tumbled off the bed he hit his head on the floor. He didn't call 991 immediately because he thought the injuries were not that bad, but after an hour the child begame unresponsive and his lips turned blue. Then the part about the lying about a babysitter doing it, but I wonder on that part again if that came up beause the kid was beat up, or if they asked what happened to cause the head injury.


Completely a terrible story all the way around, regardless, but the article just struck me as odd in how it said one thing up front, and then seemed to leave a lot of gaps. I'll gladly say the dude should rot in prison if he was really doing harm to the boy with the punches, but I will say I feel heartfelt sorrow for him if he was truely only playing with the boy and an accident happened that he not only has to live without his child, but also pay for the consequences legally as well.

I know I have played with my children many times in ways I could see this as having happening...be it with a pillow where I throw it at them to knock them down on the floor, with them laughing histerically the entire time, or something else where I pick them up and raise them above my head. Someone could write that in a way that says I was brutally pummeling them with a nearby pillow, not allowing them to get up and escape over a quarter hour of endlessly knocking them back to the ground when they try to stuggle to their feet.

Anyway, not trying to come off as sympathizing as someone that is in jail for abuse, but just pointing out thoughts I had on it as I read it. Absolute sympathy for the child and anyone affected by losing him.

allen_kcCard
08-05-2010, 11:34 AM
As bad as it sounds... It may not be so bad. I'd play with my 2yo with boxing gloves. more pushing him with hits instead of actual hits. Whatever, the case... It sounds like it'd be an aweful ordeal to go through. Playful game that went wrong.

I'd see if there was actual other damage to indicate that the little boy was hit too hard. But if the only injury was head trauma because of the fall this might be a game each one of us dad's would play with our kids.

Agreed, and what I was getting at in my post below that took me a lot longer to type out.

allen_kcCard
08-05-2010, 11:35 AM
Yes, all good fun.

punching him so hard at one point that the boy fell off the bed and struck his head on the tile floor.

I could fart on a 2 year old too hard and have that happen.

kepp
08-05-2010, 11:35 AM
I can see both sides of the issue. Obviously it was stupid to put on boxing gloves with a two year old. But, really...kids fall off beds 50% of the time they're playing on them...all on their own. Like roger said, if there had been reports of other injuries besides the hit on the head from the tile floor then, yes, he deserves 1st degree murder. If the only injury relevant to death was the hit on the head from the tile floor, then it should be involuntary man slaughter.

Dicky McElephant
08-05-2010, 11:35 AM
So you're telling me that you've put boxing gloves on your two year old.....and hit them for 15 minutes? That's not play fighting or rough housing.......

MOhillbilly
08-05-2010, 11:35 AM
Ok so i broke my pops rib and collar bone in the 6th grade but other than that.............the nextime i went to KC my uncle said " im gonna tell you like my dad told me. from here on out its for real. You wanna get roundy, were gonna get roudy like men." never roughed house with him again, though i did slam my other uncle at 15.
goodtimes.

wutamess
08-05-2010, 11:36 AM
Most kids are just walking at two, BD. There's a difference between two and three.

BS!... Most kids are walking before 1yo. (I have 5 I should know all walked before 9 mos).

2nd... Push hits are not strikes. and I've push hit my son in the head. It's more pushing when we're playing. IF... BIG IF he was repeatedly STRUCK to all these places wouldn't there be bruising and signs of trauma. By CNN not reporting the other injuries, I can only assume there aren't any which leads me to believe the "strikes" weren't really strikes as that would be vital to the story.

Then I put myself in the guys shoes... If I was playing with my kid and he fell off the bed and hit his head. I'd feel bad being labeled a child abuser. Bad parenting on waiting to call for help tho

allen_kcCard
08-05-2010, 11:36 AM
Let's just say this plain as day - you are wrong. You don't do this shit with a 2 year old kid. You don't smack your kids hard in the head, chest or torso - ever. I have a teenager, and we play around, but NEVER do I strike him in an area that could be dangerous. If I accidentally do so, it would only be once, then the playing stops, and I apologize for the miss-hit. This POS repeatedly beat his son, thinking he was Julio Ceasar Chavez . Seriously, wake the **** up.

Where in that article do you see anything to say that he did this?

DaFace
08-05-2010, 11:37 AM
I actually agree with wutamess. It's entirely possible that the "punches" were playful and that this was all an accident. If the kid has bruises from the impact of the punches themselves, then by all means, 1st degree murder it is. But if the kid wasn't being hurt by the punches and simply fell off and hit his head, that's a very different situation.

ChiTown
08-05-2010, 11:39 AM
Where in that article do you see anything to say that he did this?

He told police that he put on boxing gloves and struck the child about 15 times on his face, head, torso and shoulders over a period of 15 minutes,

cdcox
08-05-2010, 11:39 AM
[QUOTE=wutamess;6918320]Donger. Have you never wrestled with your son? What's the difference between you throwing him on the bed and he falls off and hits his head on the floor, then you're painted as the child abuser who threw his son off the bed?n[\quote]

I wresteled with my daughter when she was young. At no time was ther even the most remote possibility of her falling off the bed, because I was in complete control of the situation. If she were to lose her balance and start falling, I was there to grab her. No way would I ever use enough force to fling her or knock her off balance. Kids joints, ligements and especily the neck are pretty fragile. You have to be aware of that 100% of the time.

DaFace
08-05-2010, 11:40 AM
Yes, all good fun.

punching him so hard at one point that the boy fell off the bed and struck his head on the tile floor.

That's interpretation, not necessarily fact. A two-year-old doesn't exactly have the best balance. You could scare them, and they could stumble and fall off of the bed.

Like I said, if there was actual injury caused by the punching itself, that's different, but we can't tell that from the article.

Consistent1
08-05-2010, 11:41 AM
It's hard to justify it in anyway period. Fucking boxing gloves AND on a bed? C'mon. People get in trouble with DCFS for not really doing much of anything, or when the kid hurts themselves. One wouldn't think he was trying to hurt the child, but who knows what goes through some people's head. Very stupid.

allen_kcCard
08-05-2010, 11:41 AM
Did you even read the story or the multiple cuts which state that HE HIT THE KID SO HARD...?

As to your question, sure, I play fight with my son (and my daughter). They are eight and six, however.

It said "punching him so hard at one point that the boy fell off the bed and struck his head on the tile floor."

If it said, punching him so hard that he left welts and a black eye, or throwing him to the floor when he wasn't listening to him, or kicked him when he fell down, or anything like that...100% agree he should burn in hell. But that quote is totally open to a lot of different truths..."so hard" should have been a mere tap on the arm that made the toddler lost his balance and fall off the bed.

DaFace
08-05-2010, 11:41 AM
I wresteled with my daughter when she was young. At no time was ther even the most remote possibility of her falling off the bed, because I was in complete control of the situation. If she were to lose her balance and start falling, I was there to grab her. No way would I ever use enough force to fling her or knock her off balance. Kids joints, ligements and especily the neck are pretty fragile. You have to be aware of that 100% of the time.

To be clear, I don't disagree with this. But there's a big difference in someone who's too dumb to properly protect his kid and someone who punched his kid in the face and killed him.

Both probably are justification for jail time, but one is much longer than the other.

ChiTown
08-05-2010, 11:42 AM
That's interpretation, not necessarily fact. A two-year-old doesn't exactly have the best balance. You could scare them, and they could stumble and fall off of the bed.

Like I said, if there was actual injury caused by the punching itself, that's different, but we can't tell that from the article.

Yeah, because boxing a 2 yr old kid on a bed is generally a pretty safe thing, generally speaking. GMAFB.

Donger
08-05-2010, 11:42 AM
BS!... Most kids are walking before 1yo. (I have 5 I should know all walked before 9 mos).

2nd... Push hits are not strikes. and I've push hit my son in the head. It's more pushing when we're playing. IF... BIG IF he was repeatedly STRUCK to all these places wouldn't there be bruising and signs of trauma. By CNN not reporting the other injuries, I can only assume there aren't any which leads me to believe the "strikes" weren't really strikes as that would be vital to the story.

Then I put myself in the guys shoes... If I was playing with my kid and he fell off the bed and hit his head. I'd feel bad being labeled a child abuser. Bad parenting on waiting to call for help tho

You're right on the walking. I think I got that confused with reading.

The article states "punching him so hard at one point that the boy fell off the bed and struck his head on the tile floor." What part of that don't you understand? What about waiting an hour to call the medics? Trying to blame it in the babysitter?

If you want to "push hit" your two year old kids, fine. But, have you asked yourself why you feel the need to do so? Or, what effect it might have on their behavior?

Dicky McElephant
08-05-2010, 11:43 AM
It said "punching him so hard at one point that the boy fell off the bed and struck his head on the tile floor."

If it said, punching him so hard that he left welts and a black eye, or throwing him to the floor when he wasn't listening to him, or kicked him when he fell down, or anything like that...100% agree he should burn in hell. But that quote is totally open to a lot of different truths..."so hard" should have been a mere tap on the arm that made the toddler lost his balance and fall off the bed.

Dude.....read the quote.

struck the child about 15 times on his face, head, torso and shoulders over a period of 15 minutes

He's hitting him in the face, head, torso and shoulders. And would you expect bruising with boxing gloves on?

Plus throw in the fact that he:

A. Didn't call the paramedics.
B. Tried to place the blame on the babysitter.

DaFace
08-05-2010, 11:43 AM
Yeah, because boxing a 2 yr old kid on a bed is generally a pretty safe thing, generally speaking. GMAFB.

As I said, both probably deserve jail time. But murder and negligence are very different crimes.

Donger
08-05-2010, 11:45 AM
That's interpretation, not necessarily fact. A two-year-old doesn't exactly have the best balance. You could scare them, and they could stumble and fall off of the bed.

Like I said, if there was actual injury caused by the punching itself, that's different, but we can't tell that from the article.

Sure, and hitting them upside the head will get the job done too. I can't believe that people will justify hitting a two year old in the head/face, period.

ChiefButthurt
08-05-2010, 11:45 AM
As bad as it sounds... It may not be so bad. I'd play with my 2yo with boxing gloves. more pushing him with hits instead of actual hits. Whatever, the case... It sounds like it'd be an aweful ordeal to go through. Playful game that went wrong.

I'd see if there was actual other damage to indicate that the little boy was hit too hard. But if the only injury was head trauma because of the fall this might be a game each one of us dad's would play with our kids.

I normally wouldn't comment on another statement such as this one....but, YOU CAN"T BE SERIOUS?? Even play boxing with a 2 year old is very odd. Try teaching him something constructive....how about his alphabet? Try some number games, anything but violence at 2 years old.

allen_kcCard
08-05-2010, 11:46 AM
He told police that he put on boxing gloves and struck the child about 15 times on his face, head, torso and shoulders over a period of 15 minutes,

That could have been "I put on boxing gloves and was playing with my son, punching him with the (padded) gloves to make him fall down. We had been doing it for about 15 minutes when I let him ge too close to the edge and..."

Or..."I beat the piss out of him because if I don't teach him to be a man, who else is going to do it. After 15 minutes of so, he quit crying, but started to again so I busted his ass across the bed into the floor."

Nothing in the article says anything definate to say what the "striking" really was.

ChiTown
08-05-2010, 11:47 AM
Sure, and hitting them upside the head will get the job done too. I can't believe that people will justify hitting a two year old in the head/face, period.

The fact that people miss this point is amazing to me.

wutamess
08-05-2010, 11:47 AM
I'm not arguing it was bad judgement... I'm saying lets not paint him as a freaking torturer when all he was probably doing was playing with his kids. I'd hate to be THAT GUY! Don't judge him so harshly if he doesn't deserve it.

Hell just like Allen_KC... my daughter was 3 or 4 yo and she'd hit and run and I'd throw a pillow while she was running... After 10-15 times, I caught her at just the right time... her momentum carried her into the bed frame and she hit her eye. Lesson learned but I also didn't call 911. That was 2001 now I know what to be careflu of while playing but I was young and shit happened.

Dicky McElephant
08-05-2010, 11:47 AM
That could have been "I put on boxing gloves and was playing with my son, punching him with the (padded) gloves to make him fall down. We had been doing it for about 15 minutes when I let him ge too close to the edge and..."

Or..."I beat the piss out of him because if I don't teach him to be a man, who else is going to do it. After 15 minutes of so, he quit crying, but started to again so I busted his ass across the bed into the floor."

Nothing in the article says anything definate to say what the "striking" really was.

I don't take "playing with my 2 year old" to mean the same thing as "teaching him to box".

blaise
08-05-2010, 11:48 AM
As bad as it sounds... It may not be so bad. I'd play with my 2yo with boxing gloves. more pushing him with hits instead of actual hits. Whatever, the case... It sounds like it'd be an aweful ordeal to go through. Playful game that went wrong.

I'd see if there was actual other damage to indicate that the little boy was hit too hard. But if the only injury was head trauma because of the fall this might be a game each one of us dad's would play with our kids.

No.

DaFace
08-05-2010, 11:48 AM
Sure, and hitting them upside the head will get the job done too. I can't believe that people will justify hitting a two year old in the head/face, period.

Justify? Hardly. All I am saying is that there are plenty of people in this world with bad judgment. That doesn't make them murderers.

Clearly there was a crime done here. The severity of the crime is what I question.

Iowanian
08-05-2010, 11:49 AM
With a f*cking TWO year old? What possible purpose can even play fighting with a two year old serve?

My 2yr old daughter wants to wrestle and "fight" all the time. If I lay on the floor at home, odds are I'm seconds away from getting piled on by my 2 and or 4 year old. My nephews have wanted to box or more appropriate "slap fight" since they were probably 2. Always in fun, they growl and grunt but its a game.



I'd never support someone punching a 2 year old, and if they were hard blows the guy should get his medicine. If "strikes" means little slaps that caused a kid he was playing with to fall off of the bed and brain himself, I guess I see it as bad judgement and luck.

I get what wutta is saying.

allen_kcCard
08-05-2010, 11:50 AM
I don't take "playing with my 2 year old" to mean the same thing as "teaching him to box".

There aren't quotes from the father. He could have said the words teaching him to box in many ways, or those could be words that were applied to the story by a reporter trying to demonize the guy from something that happened where he made a (very) bad judgement call and something (very) bad happened.

wutamess
08-05-2010, 11:51 AM
I normally wouldn't comment on another statement such as this one....but, YOU CAN"T BE SERIOUS?? Even play boxing with a 2 year old is very odd. Try teaching him something constructive....how about his alphabet? Try some number games, anything but violence at 2 years old.

Great, I'll get my kids all sorts of reading books at 2... That'll work and is WAY more constructive. Maybe I can take him to the library 24-7 also. Do they have libraries that stay open 24 hours. I bet that'd be a riot with a 2yo!

Dude... kids at 2 like to play. they like 1 on 1 playful interaction... Not reading a fuggin book! GFY!

Donger
08-05-2010, 11:52 AM
Justify? Hardly. All I am saying is that there are plenty of people in this world with bad judgment. That doesn't make them murderers.

Clearly there was a crime done here. The severity of the crime is what I question.

Then we don't disagree.

wutamess
08-05-2010, 11:54 AM
I don't take "playing with my 2 year old" to mean the same thing as "teaching him to box".

You fuggers can be so narrow minded... What if he was a boxer teaching his son the ropes? Would that make it more plausible for you guys?

Damn stop getting caught up in stupid shit and understand the overall situation.

Donger
08-05-2010, 11:55 AM
My 2yr old daughter wants to wrestle and "fight" all the time. If I lay on the floor at home, odds are I'm seconds away from getting piled on by my 2 and or 4 year old. My nephews have wanted to box or more appropriate "slap fight" since they were probably 2. Always in fun, they growl and grunt but its a game.



I'd never support someone punching a 2 year old, and if they were hard blows the guy should get his medicine. If "strikes" means little slaps that caused a kid he was playing with to fall off of the bed and brain himself, I guess I see it as bad judgement and luck.

I get what wutta is saying.

I would imagine they will be able to ascertain the extent of the child's injuries before he fell. What is he's covered with bruises and welts that happened before the fall?

Like I said, I play fight with my kids, but it didn't even occur to me to do so until they were much older.

Deberg_1990
08-05-2010, 11:56 AM
I'm not arguing it was bad judgement... I'm saying lets not paint him as a freaking torturer when all he was probably doing was playing with his kids. I'd hate to be THAT GUY! Don't judge him so harshly if he doesn't deserve it.

Hell just like Allen_KC... my daughter was 3 or 4 yo and she'd hit and run and I'd throw a pillow while she was running... After 10-15 times, I caught her at just the right time... her momentum carried her into the bed frame and she hit her eye. Lesson learned but I also didn't call 911. That was 2001 now I know what to be careflu of while playing but I was young and shit happened.


you bring up some decent points. There are alot of fathers out there who dont understand how to be a responsible parent. We all make mistakes from time to time, but i do think this guy should have known his actions were excessive. Its too bad the child had to pay for it with his life.

Donger
08-05-2010, 11:57 AM
Dude... kids at 2 like to play. they like 1 on 1 playful interaction... Not reading a fuggin book! GFY!

Both my kids were reading at 18 months. I also played with them. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Donger
08-05-2010, 11:58 AM
You fuggers can be so narrow minded... What if he was a boxer teaching his son the ropes? Would that make it more plausible for you guys?

Damn stop getting caught up in stupid shit and understand the overall situation.

Why on Earth would a two year old need to be "taught the ropes?"

Pants
08-05-2010, 11:59 AM
100% with wutamess on this. An article can definitely make a "tap" into a "strike" because a tap is technically a very weak strike. Also, 15 punches over 15 minutes averages to about 1 strike per minute. Throw your hand right now and wait a minute to do so again. Yeah, that's a pretty low frequency. It sounds to me like the dad tapped the son and this time the boy fell off the bed, struck his head on the floor and that caused the brain hemorrhage.

Why do you think the dude is wearing a suicide vest? It's probably not because he's happy with himself. Bad judgment and bad luck = manslaughter, not murder.

Detoxing
08-05-2010, 12:00 PM
My 2yr old daughter wants to wrestle and "fight" all the time. If I lay on the floor at home, odds are I'm seconds away from getting piled on by my 2 and or 4 year old. My nephews have wanted to box or more appropriate "slap fight" since they were probably 2. Always in fun, they growl and grunt but its a game.



I'd never support someone punching a 2 year old, and if they were hard blows the guy should get his medicine. If "strikes" means little slaps that caused a kid he was playing with to fall off of the bed and brain himself, I guess I see it as bad judgement and luck.

I get what wutta is saying.


this.

I have a 3 yr old. I don't recall ever play fighting with him at 2, but at 3 he LOVES it.

However, No hitting in the face, ever. It's our rule. He understands it. He punches me, laughes, and I give him some light taps to the shoulders and torso, he laughes and charges at me. We wrestle on the bed, all in good fun.

He has come close to falling, but i've always been there to catch him. If, however, i didn't catch him and he fell, then yeah, I'd feel like a pretty shitty parent.

wutamess
08-05-2010, 12:00 PM
Both my kids were reading at 18 months. I also played with them. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Another fuggin point missed. First of all, we agree. My point is there's more things kids like to do than read all the freagin time.

You get (however long you've been a member of CP) parent of the year consecutively Donger. Job well done. :thumb:

wutamess
08-05-2010, 12:01 PM
Why on Earth would a two year old need to be "taught the ropes?"

Well they're taught the ropes in learning to read before 2 aren't they?
They learn how to throw, speak... It's all relative.

BIG_DADDY
08-05-2010, 12:02 PM
Most kids are just walking at two, BD. There's a difference between two and three.

He learned striking at two, but I would never actually strike him, that's friggen retarded. I guess the guy thought he was making his kid tough obviously he is a complete idiot.

Iowanian
08-05-2010, 12:03 PM
No one would want harsher punishment for the guy than I would if he abused the child...if he was punching him.....he deserves punishment, but I don't honestly think it should be a murder charge unless he was swinging to harm the child on purpose....

To put it in perspective, my family has always been roughhousers...my brother and I fought like wild people starting at 2-3, we wrestled competitively starting at 5 and I suppose the last time one of us was in a headlock on my mom's living room floor, I might have been 30. My folks have a 12'x12' wrestling mat in the basement.

From the time they were babies, each kid has seen the older boys roughhouse/wrestle/fight with the uncles and fathers....always in fun.
It's not uncommon for 5-6 kids to be piled up on one of us, and sometimes, they bump heads, or fall off the pile.

When they're old enough to crawl, they tend to make a break for the pileup of kids and want to participate.

My 2yr old can count to 20 and knows the alphabet, but she sure as hell likes to roar like a bear and pile on for "the business".


I'm not supporting what this guy did and I think it's terrible that the kid was hurt, but I can relate to the people who aren't aghast at the thought of roughhousing with a 2yr old.

wutamess
08-05-2010, 12:04 PM
He learned striking at two, but I would never actually strike him, that's friggen retarded. I guess the guy thought he was making his kid tough obviously he is a complete idiot.

Big Daddy! What's up man? Haven't seen you on here in a while. What's new in your world? (not being facetious either)

Donger
08-05-2010, 12:05 PM
Charming:

DeJesus' mother, Maria DeJesus, told WFOR-Ch. 4 that she didn't think her son was capable of such an attack on the boy.

"No, I don't think. He might be capable of beating her [the boy's mother], but they always go at it, but then she goes right back to him," Maria DeJesus told WFOR-Ch. 4. "And if he did, he knows I love him. He knows what time it is. He knows he's got to suffer with the consequences."

allen_kcCard
08-05-2010, 12:05 PM
How the subject, and the article could possibly have read:




Father May Face Legal Charges in Addition to Losing his Son

Miami, Florida (CNN) -- A Florida man who admitted to playing with his 2-year-old son when he suffered a new fatal fall while play boxing remained behind bars Thursday after a judge charged him with second-egree murder and denied him bond.

Lee Willie Dejesus, 23, of Homestead, appears in court Wednesday wearing a green protective vest, reserved for those who could be suicidal with grief or remorse, reported CNN affiliate WFOR.

His son -- identified by CNN affiliate WSVN as Willy Brown -- was on life support and not expected to recover from his injuries, blah blah blah.


Prosecutors said they plan to file first-degree murder charges once the child dies, but some think that could be harsh considering the circumstances.

Miami-Dade police said Dejesus was watching the child while his mother was at work Monday night.

He told the police that he put on boxing gloves and playfully boxed with the boy in what they commonly called "teaching him to box" a game they played often. They had only started and he had tapped the child 15 times or so, when to his shock the boy fell down on the bed and rolled backwards off the edge of the bed and struck his head on the tile floor.

The child was rushed to Children's Hospital where he underwent surgery for bleeding on the brain. Griffith said the boy may be brain dead.

A criminal complaint comes from the fact that Dejesus waited to call for medical help for as long as an hour, when the boy became unresponsive and he realized the injuries were severe.


He quickly called 911 after the boy's lips became blue, according to the report.


Dejesus initially told police that the boy was being watched by a babysitter, prumably for fear of being see as negligent, the report says.




just saying, we are judging a guy without knowing what happened, and the article led us there. If there are truely marks to indicate the kid was beaten, then that would be meaningful, but since it isn't stated, I am assuming all the direction toward that was done by the author.

Donger
08-05-2010, 12:06 PM
Well they're taught the ropes in learning to read before 2 aren't they?
They learn how to throw, speak... It's all relative.

Why does any two year old need to know how to "throw"? To defend themselves against the barbarian hordes?

MOhillbilly
08-05-2010, 12:06 PM
No one would want harsher punishment for the guy than I would if he abused the child...if he was punching him.....he deserves punishment, but I don't honestly think it should be a murder charge unless he was swinging to harm the child on purpose....

To put it in perspective, my family has always been roughhousers...my brother and I fought like wild people starting at 2-3, we wrestled competitively starting at 5 and I suppose the last time one of us was in a headlock on my mom's living room floor, I might have been 30. My folks have a 12'x12' wrestling mat in the basement.

From the time they were babies, each kid has seen the older boys roughhouse/wrestle/fight with the uncles and fathers....always in fun.
It's not uncommon for 5-6 kids to be piled up on one of us, and sometimes, they bump heads, or fall off the pile.

When they're old enough to crawl, they tend to make a break for the pileup of kids and want to participate.

My 2yr old can count to 20 and knows the alphabet, but she sure as hell likes to roar like a bear and pile on for "the business".


I'm not supporting what this guy did and I think it's terrible that the kid was hurt, but I can relate to the people who aren't aghast at the thought of roughhousing with a 2yr old.

yup. my uncles used to toss me back and forth acros the living room. good times.

MOhillbilly
08-05-2010, 12:07 PM
Why does any two year old need to know how to "throw"? To defend themselves against the barbarian hordes?

:spock:

Just Passin' By
08-05-2010, 12:08 PM
I know it sounds bad... But push hits can be exagerrated as "struck him so hard". You guys never played boxing with your son(s)? You know how they like to get hit softly and fall around and stuff. How do we know this isn't the case?

This sounds like playing going wrong. If the kid wasn't on the bed, we might not even be hearing this story.

Now if the report is actual factual with HARD (instead of playful soft) hitting to head, torso, etc, then I'm with you guys. But I'd feel horrible if this was pent against me and all I was doing was (gently) playing with my kids and the story got twisted.

Your point about another possibility is a good one, although the father certainly didn't do himself any favors by trying to pin the injury on the babysitter. Hopefully, an honest investigation and trial finds the full truth of what happened and things are dealt with accordingly.

Donger
08-05-2010, 12:08 PM
:spock:

No answer?

BIG_DADDY
08-05-2010, 12:10 PM
Big Daddy! What's up man? Haven't seen you on here in a while. What's new in your world? (not being facetious either)

Very busy at work. Kid is starting preschool this year. I commute to Southern Oregon from the bay area. I gotta lot on my plate so I am not here much. This is a recent pic of my little are bar specialist.

MOhillbilly
08-05-2010, 12:10 PM
No answer?

Balls not fists.

allen_kcCard
08-05-2010, 12:10 PM
Your point about another possibility is a good one, although the father certainly didn't do himself any favors by trying to pin the injury on the babysitter. Hopefully, an honest investigation and trial finds the full truth of what happened and things are dealt with accordingly.

And if the truth is that he was not being abusive, hopefully they can find a jury that didn't read an article like the one that was written about it.

Detoxing
08-05-2010, 12:10 PM
No answer?

Uhmm...well...I might be alone on this one, but I'm glad my kid can throw. It makes it easier to play catch with him. He loves throwing a football.

wutamess
08-05-2010, 12:11 PM
Very busy at work. Kid is starting preschool this year. I commute to Southern Oregon from the bay area. I gotta lot on my plate so I am not here much. This is a recent pic of my little are bar specialist.

Damn that looks like a classic father and son moment pic.
Good stuff dude. Got a little scrapper on your hands :evil:

wutamess
08-05-2010, 12:12 PM
Now get out the nutthooks out:

"De Jesus allegedly confessed to police that he decided to teach his child how to box, and, police said, he struck the child as much as 15 times, causing the boy to hit his head on the wall and then on the tile floor before he had a seizure. Police said De Jesus failed to call 911 until he noticed the child turning blue after placing him in bed. The boy's mother was working at the time."

Donger
08-05-2010, 12:12 PM
LMAO

I thought "throw" was some new lingo for throwing a punch.

BIG_DADDY
08-05-2010, 12:15 PM
Donger,

Here is a pic of my kid right after he turned 2. You think he might like throwing down?

Donger
08-05-2010, 12:15 PM
Now get out the nutthooks out:

"De Jesus allegedly confessed to police that he decided to teach his child how to box, and, police said, he struck the child as much as 15 times, causing the boy to hit his head on the wall and then on the tile floor before he had a seizure. Police said De Jesus failed to call 911 until he noticed the child turning blue after placing him in bed. The boy's mother was working at the time."

Gee, there's a shock.

Donger
08-05-2010, 12:16 PM
Donger,

Here is a pic of my kid right after he turned 2. You think he might like throwing down?

I don't know, but he sure does have a nice tan.

BIG_DADDY
08-05-2010, 12:18 PM
Damn that looks like a classic father and son moment pic.
Good stuff dude. Got a little scrapper on your hands :evil:

Being a father is easily the most rewarding thing in life thus far.

ChiTown
08-05-2010, 12:18 PM
I don't know, but he sure does have a nice tan.

ROFL

BIG_DADDY
08-05-2010, 12:20 PM
I don't know, but he sure does have a nice tan.

That's his cousin. That kid is a monster and plays very rough. Just turned 3 and is like 48 pounds of pure muscle. I swear the kid could do a toddlers under armour commercial right now.

Donger
08-05-2010, 12:25 PM
That's his cousin. That kid is a monstor and plays very rough. Just turned 3 and is like 48 pounds of pure muscle. I swear the kid could do a toddlers under armour commercial right now.

LMAO

LMAO x 2 if it was unintentional.

notorious
08-05-2010, 12:30 PM
I can't think of anything worse then beating a defenseless child to death.



What a pathetic monster.

Brock
08-05-2010, 12:32 PM
http://www.addamsfamily.com/addams/pugsley2.jpg

Hydrae
08-05-2010, 12:37 PM
100% with wutamess on this. An article can definitely make a "tap" into a "strike" because a tap is technically a very weak strike. Also, 15 punches over 15 minutes averages to about 1 strike per minute. Throw your hand right now and wait a minute to do so again. Yeah, that's a pretty low frequency. It sounds to me like the dad tapped the son and this time the boy fell off the bed, struck his head on the floor and that caused the brain hemorrhage.

Why do you think the dude is wearing a suicide vest? It's probably not because he's happy with himself. Bad judgment and bad luck = manslaughter, not murder.

I also wonder why he is being charged with second degree murder if the child is still in a coma.

Donger
08-05-2010, 12:40 PM
I also wonder why he is being charged with second degree murder if the child is still in a coma.

The child is brain-dead.

DeezNutz
08-05-2010, 12:44 PM
Should have started teaching the kid defense at age one.

Parental lesson learned.

And are there serious posts about the toughness of toddlers? Certainly not, right?

Luke
08-05-2010, 12:51 PM
The guy looks a little too much like Sideshow Bob to me, but then I watch too much TV.

When my kids were little.I remember walking into their bedroom in time to see my 3 year old daughter bouncing almost up to the ceiling on the bed,then doing a header to the floor. I was sure she had broken her neck. She did knock herself silly for about 30 seconds. By the time I reached her she was crawling back to the bed ready for more. Needless to say the bed trampolining ended before it started again. My point being kids are normally resilient.

In my opinion they should take the vest off Sideshow Bob and hand him a bottle of bleach/antifreeze.

thurman merman
08-05-2010, 01:25 PM
I know it sounds bad... But push hits can be exagerrated as "struck him so hard". You guys never played boxing with your son(s)? You know how they like to get hit softly and fall around and stuff. How do we know this isn't the case?


because the kid is on life support?

Hydrae
08-05-2010, 01:50 PM
The child is brain-dead.

Is there a death certificate? I don't see how this qualifies as murder until there is a dead body, not just brain dead on life support. Fine line perhaps, but a line none the less.

Donger
08-05-2010, 02:24 PM
Is there a death certificate? I don't see how this qualifies as murder until there is a dead body, not just brain dead on life support. Fine line perhaps, but a line none the less.

The young boy was airlifted to Miami Children's Hospital, where he is brain dead and on life support.

DeJesus was originally charged with aggravated child abuse and child neglect, but during Wednesday's hearing, the charges were bumped up to second-degree murder.

“At this time, I do find that there is probable cause for non-bondable offense of felony murder and/or second degree murder,” said Miami-Dade Criminal Judge Roberto Pineiro.

The judge had been asked to let DeJesus out on bond because his son had not technically died at that point. But the argument fell short.

"The child is brain dead,” asked the judge rhetorically to a Miami-Dade police detective in court.

"Yes, he was declared brain dead by a neurosurgeon,” the officer replied.

"Alright,” the judge declared. “That being the case, no bond."

ChiTown
08-05-2010, 02:29 PM
The young boy was airlifted to Miami Children's Hospital, where he is brain dead and on life support.

DeJesus was originally charged with aggravated child abuse and child neglect, but during Wednesday's hearing, the charges were bumped up to second-degree murder.

“At this time, I do find that there is probable cause for non-bondable offense of felony murder and/or second degree murder,” said Miami-Dade Criminal Judge Roberto Pineiro.

The judge had been asked to let DeJesus out on bond because his son had not technically died at that point. But the argument fell short.

"The child is brain dead,” asked the judge rhetorically to a Miami-Dade police detective in court.

"Yes, he was declared brain dead by a neurosurgeon,” the officer replied.

"Alright,” the judge declared. “That being the case, no bond."

Yeah, but they were just playing around on the bed, while his Dad knocked his 2 year old's ass around. It's not murder............yet. The Father is just misunderstood...........

thecoffeeguy
08-05-2010, 02:31 PM
Those pigtails are gonna come in handy in prison

He shouldn't even make it to prison.

wutamess
08-05-2010, 02:32 PM
Yeah, but they were just playing around on the bed, while his Dad knocked his 2 year old's ass around. It's not murder............yet. The Father is just misunderstood...........

Exactly :thumb:

ChiTown
08-05-2010, 02:33 PM
Exactly :thumb:

:doh!:

Pitt Gorilla
08-05-2010, 02:33 PM
Kids weren't such pussies back in the day. /Otter

MagicHef
08-05-2010, 02:36 PM
How the subject, and the article could possibly have read:

A criminal complaint comes from the fact that Dejesus waited to call for medical help for as long as an hour, when the boy became unresponsive and he realized the injuries were severe.

No, the boy did not become unresponsive after an hour, the father called 911 an hour after he became unresponsive.

A criminal complaint alleges that Dejesus waited to call for medical help for as long as an hour after the boy became unresponsive.

Donger
08-05-2010, 02:41 PM
Exactly :thumb:

Please tell me you're joking at this point.

Iowanian
08-05-2010, 02:48 PM
The more details that come out, the more it sounds like the sperm donor is a prick and an idiot.

wutamess
08-05-2010, 02:49 PM
Please tell me you're joking at this point.

calm down Dong... it was a joke.

wutamess
08-05-2010, 02:50 PM
The more details that come out, the more it sounds like the sperm donor is a prick and an idiot.

This. Wanted to give the benefit of the doubt.

The_Doctor10
08-05-2010, 05:55 PM
As a Canadian, I don't get to say this when people do this sort of thing in my country (Not that it happens often)...

Fry him.

The_Doctor10
08-05-2010, 06:03 PM
No one would want harsher punishment for the guy than I would if he abused the child...if he was punching him.....he deserves punishment, but I don't honestly think it should be a murder charge unless he was swinging to harm the child on purpose....

To put it in perspective, my family has always been roughhousers...my brother and I fought like wild people starting at 2-3, we wrestled competitively starting at 5 and I suppose the last time one of us was in a headlock on my mom's living room floor, I might have been 30. My folks have a 12'x12' wrestling mat in the basement.

From the time they were babies, each kid has seen the older boys roughhouse/wrestle/fight with the uncles and fathers....always in fun.
It's not uncommon for 5-6 kids to be piled up on one of us, and sometimes, they bump heads, or fall off the pile.

When they're old enough to crawl, they tend to make a break for the pileup of kids and want to participate.

My 2yr old can count to 20 and knows the alphabet, but she sure as hell likes to roar like a bear and pile on for "the business".


I'm not supporting what this guy did and I think it's terrible that the kid was hurt, but I can relate to the people who aren't aghast at the thought of roughhousing with a 2yr old.

Wrestling with kids your own age is a completely different thing, come on. You're more or less at the same point developmentally. This was a two-year old being hit for 15 minutes by a 23 year old man. Apples to atom bombs, dude.

Al Bundy
08-05-2010, 06:31 PM
I'm sure the dipshit dad is a Hurricanes fan... asswipe.

bevischief
08-05-2010, 06:50 PM
He will be dealt with in prison... You don't mess with kids and women... Prisoners have their own code...