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Tribal Warfare
08-06-2010, 07:52 PM
Goodell's Locker Room Meetings Aren't Going Well (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/08/06/goodells-locker-room-meetings-arent-going-well/)

Earlier this week, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell opened his meeting with Baltimore Ravens players by describing himself as a "liaison" between the league's players and owners. According to one of the players who was in the room, that line got a pretty big laugh.

"You could definitely hear guys chuckling when he said that," Ravens cornerback Domonique Foxworth told FanHouse in a phone interview Friday.

Goodell said something like it when he met with Chiefs players at their training camp, too. And he got a similar reaction there.

"I mean, that's almost like a slap in the face to our intelligence," Chiefs guard Brian Waters said in a separate phone interview. "We know the owners are paying him. Don't take us for granted as far as our understanding of what's going on here."

It sounds like a great idea -- the commissioner of the NFL going camp-to-camp to meet with players in person. At each stop, Goodell has closed the door to the locker room and opened the floor for questions. He's meeting them man-to-man, without their coaches and without the lawyers who accompany him to the negotiating table during the formal CBA negotiations. And the players to whom FanHouse spoke for this story all said they respected that.

But those players don't think Goodell was ready for the kinds of questions he's faced in those locker rooms.

"I was hopeful we'd get some more answers," Browns linebacker Scott Fujita said of Goodell's meeting with that team. "I think he came in unprepared for how educated the players were going to be. A lot of guys were concerned about it afterward, and I think kind of shocked for how unprepared he was for these kinds of questions."

Fujita said Goodell opened the meeting at Browns camp by telling players to "fire away" if they had any CBA questions, and "guys sure as hell fired away." Fifteen minutes into the meeting, Fujita said, Goodell looked at his watch and said it was time to wrap up because coach Eric Mangini wanted the room back. Fujita said he walked out of the room and told Mangini, "Coach, it's going to be a while," and then went back in and continued the discussion with the commissioner for 30 more minutes.

At one point during the meeting, in discussing the rookie wage scale, Fujita mentioned that the players had put forth a proposal on that matter months ago but hadn't received a response. Fujita held up a copy of the proposal and asked the commissioner if he'd like him to read it aloud.

"I don't think he wanted me to read it," Fujita said.

"I think he came in unprepared for how educated the players were going to be. A lot of guys were concerned about it afterward, and I think kind of shocked for how unprepared he was for these kinds of questions."
-- Scott Fujita In Baltimore, quarterback Joe Flacco peppered Goodell with questions about the rookie wage scale, and whether the owners planned to put in a provision that guaranteed that any savings derived from such a plan would be applied to pay for established veterans. Veterans such as Ray Lewis, Derrick Mason and Matt Birk joined in.

In Jacksonville, star running back Maurice Jones-Drew pressed Goodell on specifics about the owners' plans to expand the season to 18 games, and what they planned to do to compensate players for the extra work and the increased health and injury risks that could come along with that.

In Kansas City, Waters asked Goodell directly whether the owners were planning to cut health benefits for players in the event of a 2011 lockout. Linebacker Tamba Hali stood up and flat-out asked why the owners had opted out of the collective bargaining agreement.

"He couldn't give us any answers," Waters said. "All he said was, 'They weren't happy.' If we ask you why they weren't happy and all you can say is, 'They weren't," then how can you say we're having an open dialogue and this isn't just a P.R. move so you can say, 'Hey, I went and talked to the players?'"

If it were that, it hasn't gone the way Goodell hoped it would. What the commissioner has found is an angry attitude among players who are concerned that they'll be locked out in 2011.

"It's looming right now, and when we see Roger, that's what we think about," Foxworth said. "He represents the impending lockout."

Commissioner's office spokesman Greg Aiello said Goodell has so far had meetings with eight different teams and is scheduled to meet with the Colts on Saturday. Aiello said topics that have been addressed include concussions, helmet safety, player safety in an expanded season as well as retired player issues. Aiello said that if players weren't getting direct answers to CBA-related questions, that's because Goodell didn't think it was the appropriate format in which to answer them.

"These meetings are not intended to be CBA negotiating sessions," Aiello wrote in an e-mail to FanHouse. "He tells them directly at the beginning of the meeting that there is a formal negotiating process and he is not there to circumvent that. He is there to hear their questions and their perspective and to provide answers and offer his perspective when appropriate."

Talking to the players, it sounds as if they got the same answer from Goodell when they asked why he wasn't answering their questions more directly. And it also sounds as if they didn't like it.

"Those statements, everybody's tired of them," Browns tackle Tony Pashos said. "I think the players are tired of the spin, tired of the sneakiness. We're reasonable guys, and we're aware of that word negotiation. But there is no negotiation. It's take it or leave it. We've had 15 sessions and in not one of them did management come looking to do a deal."

Foxworth, Waters and Fujita all serve on the union's executive council and have sat in on negotiating sessions with Goodell and the owners during this process. But they all said what thrilled them was seeing the other players on their teams -- from the stars through the rank-and-file -- jump in with questions of their own.

"I think it really solidified to our guys, especially to our young guys, what I've been saying through this process," Waters said. "That this is a business. That the commissioner represents the 32 owners."

That last point is the one Foxworth sees as the problem. And he thinks Goodell's inability to give direct answers to the players' questions illustrated, for his constituents at least, that the real issues at the heart of the CBA matter is the owners' inability to agree among themselves on things like revenue-sharing.

"(Goodell) wasn't surprised, but I think he has a hard time with it because it's clear that some of the stances the NFL has taken are ones they don't all agree upon," Foxworth said. "I think the big thing is revenue-sharing, and they don't all see eye-to-eye on salary caps and things like that. I think Jerry Jones wants to be George Steinbrenner.

"I think Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder would be happy being in the NFC Championship Game every year and deciding who goes to the Super Bowl because they have an endless supply of money. I don't think they're in favor of a salary cap, and I know they're not in favor of revenue-sharing. I don't imagine Jerry Jones' NFL would look too much different from what the players would want. You never heard Jeter and A-Rod complain about what Steinbrenner was doing."

Goodell has repeatedly described the owners as united on CBA matters. As an example, he has cited the owners' collective willingness to allow this season to be played without a salary cap (a consequence of not getting a new deal done before this past March). He also has denied that the owners are planning to lock the players out in 2011 in an effort to get a new deal done, though the players and NFLPA Executive Director DeMaurice Smith have said they believe that's exactly what's being planned.

Given the depth of the differences between the two sides on these issues, Aiello said Goodell expected to field these kinds of questions in these meetings. He also said he believed such discussions could be productive.

"Very much so," Aiello wrote. "He believes strongly in having an open dialogue with players."

The players welcomed it too. It's not often they get a chance to make the commissioner squirm.

"There was clear frustration on his face," Waters said. "Guys were saying, 'Wait a minute -- you're not answering our questions,' and you could see he was clearly ready to get out of there. I think he took a great leap by going in there without any coaches or any of his advisers or anybody. He took a bold stance. But I don't think he was fully prepared for what he was going to find."

Baconeater
08-06-2010, 10:33 PM
"I think Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder would be happy being in the NFC Championship Game every year and deciding who goes to the Super Bowl because they have an endless supply of money. I don't think they're in favor of a salary cap, and I know they're not in favor of revenue-sharing. I don't imagine Jerry Jones' NFL would look too much different from what the players would want. You never heard Jeter and A-Rod complain about what Steinbrenner was doing."
Well that makes it pretty easy to side with the owners.

CaliforniaChief
08-06-2010, 10:35 PM
Was Brian Waters still on the exercise bike when he grilled Goodell?

Psyko Tek
08-06-2010, 10:50 PM
I always liked Fujita
I never liked goodell
feeling a lock out

does the NFL have any idea why it's popular

short season
one and done playoffs
ANYONE CAN WIN IT ALL

cap the rookies.
cap the payroll
profit SHARE

penalize owners that don't meet the cap

my 2 cents

Baconeater
08-06-2010, 10:53 PM
does the NFL have any idea why it's popular

short season
one and done playoffs
ANYONE CAN WIN IT ALL


The players don't give a shit about any of that.

AustinChief
08-07-2010, 04:26 AM
Goodell's out of his depth if he is trying to talk down to Fujita... Fujita is better educated, smarter and not one to underestimate his "opponent"...

Fujita is one of the few NFL players that could run intellectual circles around Goodell.

The guy has a MASTERS from Cal... Goodell has what? a BA in economics from some crap liberal arts school. Jesus, I probably could have had that by Junior year in high school.

I know Waters' high school coach and from everything I have heard... he is no intellectual slouch either...

Damn, Goodell, seriously?

AustinChief
08-07-2010, 04:27 AM
Goodell's out of his depth if he is trying to talk down to Fujita... Fujita is better educated, smarter and not one to underestimate his "opponent"...

Fujita is one of the few NFL players that could run intellectual circles around Goodell.

The guy has a MASTERS from Cal... Goodell has what? a BA in economics from some crap liberal arts school. Jesus, I probably could have had that by Junior year in high school.

I know Waters' high school coach and from everything I have heard... he is no intellectual slouch either...

Damn, Goodell, seriously?

btw... one of the Chiefs BIGGESTS mistakes was letting Fujita go... he brings more to a team than just what he shows on the field (which isn't bad)

Mecca
08-07-2010, 04:47 AM
The players don't give a shit about any of that.

When the games profit is still growing and the owners tell the players they want to take the cut from 59% to 43%, anyone in their right mind wouldn't think that was ok.

When the players have put up numerous proposals and are met with nothing it's pretty hard for me to think this is the players fault.

bevischief
08-07-2010, 06:12 AM
When the games profit is still growing and the owners tell the players they want to take the cut from 59% to 43%, anyone in their right mind wouldn't think that was ok.

When the players have put up numerous proposals and are met with nothing it's pretty hard for me to think this is the players fault.

this

Psyko Tek
08-07-2010, 06:44 AM
The players don't give a shit about any of that.

no, I meant the owners and the management
youlet jones and snyder do the stienbrenner thing it's gonna end the popularity

notorious
08-07-2010, 06:51 AM
Both the players and owners are greedy ****s, but the owners are coming off as even more greedy this time around.


The way Goodell walked in thinking that he wouldn't have to field any tough questions reinforces my opinion that he and the owners look at most of their players as cattle stock. Good for Fujita for kicking him in the balls.

Baconeater
08-07-2010, 07:33 AM
Did any of you read the paragraph I quoted in the first post? JFC...

Bane
08-07-2010, 07:44 AM
Goodell is a fuggn idiot for thinking the players wouldn't be ready for his silly ass.

WilliamTheIrish
08-07-2010, 08:00 AM
Pretty hilarious that the owners sent a lamb in for slaughter. I just love it when PR stunts - really bad PR stunts - backfire like that.

crossbow
08-07-2010, 08:05 AM
This article makes the owners look bad. I guess they want to force a lockout so they can beat down the price of labor.

So what did Goodell hope to accomplish if he wasn't prepaired to address any of the player's questions? Make a lame attempt at appearing concerned? Geez, what a waste of time.

crossbow
08-07-2010, 08:09 AM
Pretty hilarious that the owners sent a lamb in for slaughter. I just love it when PR stunts - really bad PR stunts - backfire like that.

Goodell and Dwaine Bowe should start a public relations consulting firm.

HonestChieffan
08-07-2010, 08:19 AM
Players will shoot themselves in the foot no matter what.

Red Brooklyn
08-07-2010, 08:25 AM
Players will shoot themselves in the foot no matter what.
I think I got a fortune cookie once that said that exact same thing.

notorious
08-07-2010, 08:52 AM
Players will shoot themselves in the foot no matter what.


I think I got a fortune cookie once that said that exact same thing.

Did it make you feel.......uncomfortable?

Mr. Flopnuts
08-07-2010, 09:00 AM
LMAO

Stewie
08-07-2010, 09:02 AM
btw... one of the Chiefs BIGGESTS mistakes was letting Fujita go... he brings more to a team than just what he shows on the field (which isn't bad)

But... but... but... we had Kendrell Bell. Thanks Gunther. :shake:

Red Brooklyn
08-07-2010, 09:03 AM
Did it make you feel.......uncomfortable?

LMAO

Brock
08-07-2010, 09:25 AM
Goodell has repeatedly described the owners as united on CBA matters. As an example, he has cited the owners' collective willingness to allow this season to be played without a salary cap (a consequence of not getting a new deal done before this past March). He also has denied that the owners are planning to lock the players out in 2011 in an effort to get a new deal done, though the players and NFLPA Executive Director DeMaurice Smith have said they believe that's exactly what's being planned.


Well, Goodell is a fucking liar.

wazu
08-07-2010, 09:31 AM
How can he not be prepared? I honestly think that with 4-5 hours of prep time I could walk in and do this meeting. Don't introduce yourself as a liason. Just say you are there to listen to their concerns. From there let the meeting flow based on the energy of the group. They want to throw down? Fine. Let's debate. Do they just want to be heard? Okay, listen with occasional feedback. It's a hostile audience, but you should at least leave with the players respecting the fact that you were willing to make yourself available to them in-person, and genuinely listen to their concerns.

the Talking Can
08-07-2010, 09:54 AM
Goodell really loves himself

WilliamTheIrish
08-07-2010, 10:04 AM
How can he not be prepared? I honestly think that with 4-5 hours of prep time I could walk in and do this meeting. Don't introduce yourself as a liason. Just say you are there to listen to their concerns. From there let the meeting flow based on the energy of the group. They want to throw down? Fine. Let's debate. Do they just want to be heard? Okay, listen with occasional feedback. It's a hostile audience, but you should at least leave with the players respecting the fact that you were willing to make yourself available to them in-person, and genuinely listen to their concerns.

Anybody with an ounce of PR experience would have been prepped and done exactly as you wrote. There's absolutely no reason to get caught with your ass in the wind like Goodell did.

And never, ever close the meeting by looking at your watch. That shows he wanted out and was in over his head.

Bane
08-07-2010, 10:14 AM
Goodell is a fuggn JOKE as NFL commissioner.

Mr. Laz
08-07-2010, 10:25 AM
pretty clear that Goodell was trying to take the "no comment" route because he's trying to not not sides, at least publicly.

at least he could of educated himself enough to take a 3rd party attitude about it.

"here is what i believe the player want, here is what i believe the owners want ... the two sides are going to have to work hard to find some middle ground."

DrRyan
08-07-2010, 10:33 AM
Unfortunately for the fans I can't see anyway a work stoppage does not happen, be it from the owners locking players out of forcing them to strike(something I heard D Smith suggest was most likely in an interview).

As has been said already Rog appears that he could not have been less prepared. It is hard to sympathize with either side when it is billionaires feuding with multimillionaires. Just get the deal done.
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jAZ
08-07-2010, 10:46 AM
In reading that article, I don't think Goddell was un-prepared. He was just unwilling to speak to specific points of negotiation. That pissed off the players. They felt like he was unprepared, but really he had a different purpose in going.

He seems like a good guy with the right intentions for the league in mind. And he wanted to meet the players face to face. To field their questions (if not always to answer them). Listening is important. Sounds like he listened and spoke when it made sense to speak.

Don't really see how (if you don't have a vested stake in one side or the other) that's such a bad thing at all.

L.A. Chieffan
08-07-2010, 10:54 AM
All I can say is there better still be a salary cap in the future or the Chiefs are fooked.

Crush
08-07-2010, 10:57 AM
In reading that article, I don't think Goddell was un-prepared. He was just unwilling to speak to specific points of negotiation. That pissed off the players. They felt like he was unprepared, but really he had a different purpose in going.

He seems like a good guy with the right intentions for the league in mind. And he wanted to meet the players face to face. To field their questions (if not always to answer them). Listening is important. Sounds like he listened and spoke when it made sense to speak.

Don't really see how (if you don't have a vested stake in one side or the other) that's such a bad thing at all.


Because he put up the facade as a neutral party, which insulted the intelligence of the players. This was nothing more than a PR move, which blew up in his face. There was no sincerity from his part in this whole debacle. The fact that he would blatantly lie about the impending lockout (which Brock quoted) shows that this was also a piss poor attempt at future propaganda.

Mojo Jojo
08-07-2010, 11:41 AM
Goodell didn't do this right, but let's be honest he is preparing the players/owners and fans for the upcoming lockout and/or strike. Players want more...owners want to put more back in their pockets....not going to end well.
Players should be able to get what they can...the NFL needs to keep things fair for all teams and owners don't make near as much as most fans and the NFLPA believe.

Brock
08-07-2010, 12:24 PM
Goodell didn't do this right, but let's be honest he is preparing the players/owners and fans for the upcoming lockout and/or strike.

He also has denied that the owners are planning to lock the players out in 2011 in an effort to get a new deal done, though the players and NFLPA Executive Director DeMaurice Smith have said they believe that's exactly what's being planned.

ORLY