PDA

View Full Version : Chiefs Is this team going to be the 2002 Chiefs?


bobbything
08-07-2010, 01:01 PM
Listening to Bill Maas the other day, he went on and on about how good this offense is going to be, and how terrible the defense is. It got me thinking, this team seems to be eerily similar to the early years DV teams...

In 01, the team wasn't particularly good. We traded for Trent Green, who had a pretty horrible year. The defense sucked and the offense was pretty average. But, Priest Holmes emerged late and became the go-to guy.

The following year, the offense took a huge leap. Holmes and Green were both great, and we picked up castoff Kennison, who resurrected his career with KC. The defense still sucked and we finished 8-8.

Last year, we paid an arm and a leg for Cassel who wasn't very good. Charles emerged late as the go-to guy. We picked up castoff Chambers who looks to be resurrecting his career. And all reports out of camp are that the offense looks very, very potent, and our defense sucks.

There seem to be lots of similarities between these two teams. 8-8 again, and essentially a mirror of the 2002 season?

Silock
08-07-2010, 01:09 PM
I don't know that the defense is going to be THAT bad, and I don't know that the offense will be that good, either.

Seems as if they will be pretty balanced, but still pretty bad.

bobbything
08-07-2010, 01:13 PM
Seems as if they will be pretty balanced, but still pretty bad.
I dunno. Maas was saying that this offense is going to be really, really good. But, who knows...

Red Brooklyn
08-07-2010, 01:15 PM
I hate sounding like a champion of mediocrity, I could live with 8-8 this season.

Coogs
08-07-2010, 01:19 PM
I think it is going to be closer to the 1989 Chiefs that Mass played on. 4-11-1 in 1988. Went 8-7-1 in 1989 in Marty's first year, and just missed out on the playoffs.

TEX
08-07-2010, 01:25 PM
I don't know that the defense is going to be THAT bad, and I don't know that the offense will be that good, either.

Seems as if they will be pretty balanced, but still pretty bad.

I think the defense will be THAT bad. Where's the improvement going to come from? Front 7 is still one of the worst in football. We have a decent Secondary,and a very good DC, but he can't play - players play. The Chiefs just don't have the talent on defense...

Marcellus
08-07-2010, 01:27 PM
If the offense is that good I will shit. If the defense is as bad as the 2002 team, I will shit.

ChiefsCountry
08-07-2010, 01:29 PM
Matt Cassel isnt Trent Green so that shoots down that theory.
Posted via Mobile Device

Chiefaholic
08-07-2010, 01:54 PM
Trent had an incredible offensive line that gave him a TON of time to find the open receiver and open up gaping holes for Holmes to run through. I agree that we have more playmakers, but the game starts in the trenches on both sides of the ball.

Coogs
08-07-2010, 01:59 PM
1989 Chiefs featured a strong running a strong running game, and DeBerg using the play action pass based off of the running game. The play action pass appears to be Cassels strength as well based off of the last few games of this past season.

Von Dumbass
08-07-2010, 02:11 PM
Matt Cassel isnt Trent Green so that shoots down that theory.
Posted via Mobile Device

And Jamal Charles isn't Priest Holmes, Tim Castille isn't Tony Richardson, Brandon Albert isn't Willie Roaf, Brian Waters isn't the 2002 Brian Waters, Casey Weigman isn't the 2002 Casey Weigman, Lilja isn't Will Shields, Ryan O'Callaghan isn't John Tait, Leonard Pope isn't Tony Gonzalez, and Dwayne Bowe isn't Eddie Kennison.

cabletech94
08-07-2010, 02:17 PM
And Jamal Charles isn't Priest Holmes, Tim Castille isn't Tony Richardson, Brandon Albert isn't Willie Roaf, Brian Waters isn't the 2002 Brian Waters, Casey Weigman isn't the 2002 Casey Weigman, Lilja isn't Will Shields, Ryan O'Callaghan isn't John Tait, Leonard Pope isn't Tony Gonzalez, and Dwayne Bowe isn't Eddie Kennison.

whoa there negative nelly. tebow isn't jesus either. oh wait. yes he is. my bad!

Fish
08-07-2010, 02:21 PM
Fans will forever long for the circus offense of Grandpa Dick.... to hell with the rest of the team....

bobbything
08-07-2010, 02:25 PM
And Jamal Charles isn't Priest Holmes, Tim Castille isn't Tony Richardson, Brandon Albert isn't Willie Roaf, Brian Waters isn't the 2002 Brian Waters, Casey Weigman isn't the 2002 Casey Weigman, Lilja isn't Will Shields, Ryan O'Callaghan isn't John Tait, Leonard Pope isn't Tony Gonzalez, and Dwayne Bowe isn't Eddie Kennison.
Aside from Gonzalez, who on that 2001 team (after that 6-10 year) made you think they were going to be world beaters? I'm not saying that all of these players are going to turn out to be All-Pros, but in 2002, my expectations for Holmes, Kennison, Green, and Richardson, was pretty tempered.

Also, Chambers is the Kennison comparison. Bowe would be Johnny Morton. And rightly so.

Just saying that this offense has a chance to be pretty darn good.

KCrockaholic
08-07-2010, 02:39 PM
And Jamal Charles isn't Priest Holmes, Tim Castille isn't Tony Richardson, Brandon Albert isn't Willie Roaf, Brian Waters isn't the 2002 Brian Waters, Casey Weigman isn't the 2002 Casey Weigman, Lilja isn't Will Shields, Ryan O'Callaghan isn't John Tait, Leonard Pope isn't Tony Gonzalez, and Dwayne Bowe isn't Eddie Kennison.

Jamaal could easily be better than Holmes over time, and Priest never had a back-up like Thomas Jones.

Mike Cox is our fullback. I really don't see Castille as a great FB. Dwayne Bowe could easily be better than Eddie Kennison if he would get his mind into the game. Chambers is our Kennison equivalent. We never had a slot receiver like McCluster either. This offense won't be as good as the 2002 Chiefs, but they could very well be a middle of the pack, possibly top 15 offense.

Our defense today is better than the 2002 defense.

kysirsoze
08-07-2010, 02:40 PM
Fans will forever long for the circus offense of Grandpa Dick.... to hell with the rest of the team....

I don't know that anybody here is longing for the 2002 Chiefs. Just drawing a parallel.

Fish
08-07-2010, 02:43 PM
I don't know that anybody here is longing for the 2002 Chiefs. Just drawing a parallel.

I have a feeling that a large majority of our fanbase would be tickled pink to have the DV Chiefs back. 32 defense and all.....

bobbything
08-07-2010, 02:52 PM
I have a feeling that a large majority of our fanbase would be tickled pink to have the DV Chiefs back. 32 defense and all.....
I'd take the 2005 team back. 6th and 16th in offense and defense, respectively. I always felt that team was the best DV team. They were just one play in a few games away from being 12-4, or 13-3 again.

Philly comes to mind. Up 17-0, IIRC. Saunders calls a quick slant to Kennison. We had just run this play one play before. Because we weren't allowed to audible, we ran it, the CB read it, picked it off for 6. The wheels completely fell off after that.

Dallas game. 4th and way long at the end of the game. Chiefs come up with the stop. We can kneel out the clock. BUT...phantom defensive holding call. 1st down Dallas. Defense breaks down, Dallas goes ahead. Chiefs drive down in about 60 seconds and get into position to tie the game because of a great throw and catch from Green to Hall. Flubbed snap loses the game.

:banghead:

KCrockaholic
08-07-2010, 02:57 PM
I'd take the 2005 team back. 6th and 16th in offense and defense, respectively. I always felt that team was the best DV team. They were just one play in a few games away from being 12-4, or 13-3 again.

Philly comes to mind. Up 17-0, IIRC. Saunders calls a quick slant to Kennison. We had just run this play one play before. Because we weren't allowed to audible, we ran it, the CB read it, picked it off for 6. The wheels completely fell off after that.

Dallas game. 4th and way long at the end of the game. Chiefs come up with the stop. We can kneel out the clock. BUT...phantom defensive holding call. 1st down Dallas. Defense breaks down, Dallas goes ahead. Chiefs drive down in about 60 seconds and get into position to tie the game because of a great throw and catch from Green to Hall. Flubbed snap loses the game.

:banghead:

That team deserved to be a playoff team.

DV's 10-6 misses the playoffs, while Herm's suck ass 9-7 team goes to the playoffs and gets crushed.

Coogs
08-07-2010, 02:58 PM
According to Gretz from todays scrimmage, the defense is way ahead of the offense.

bobbything
08-07-2010, 03:01 PM
According to Gretz from todays scrimmage, the defense is way ahead of the offense.
Damn. Just today, or for all of camp thus far? Because everything I heard from the nigh practice was that the offense completely lit up the defense.

SNR
08-07-2010, 03:03 PM
According to Gretz from todays scrimmage, the defense is way ahead of the offense.We're doomed :cuss:

bobbything
08-07-2010, 03:04 PM
That team deserved to be a playoff team.

DV's 10-6 misses the playoffs, while Herm's suck ass 9-7 team goes to the playoffs and gets crushed.
Good Lord, I don't know how that 2006 team got to 9-7. They were awful. I remember that a bad 49'ers team had to beat the Bronco's (which happened), and I think Pittsburgh had to beat Cinci (which happened), and something else...

There were three completely perfect things that had to happen for that team to get into the playoffs.

LaChapelle
08-07-2010, 03:30 PM
If you want to draw a paycheck as a media 3rd stringer
you got to bring a little something different

notorious
08-07-2010, 03:45 PM
I hate sounding like a champion of mediocrity, I could live with 8-8 this season.


I have no problem with a team that improves to an 8-8 record. I have a problem with a team that consistantly makes moves that keep themselves there.

DaneMcCloud
08-07-2010, 03:51 PM
Went 8-7-1 in 1989 in Marty's first year, and just missed out on the playoffs.

Because of Nick Lowery.

DaneMcCloud
08-07-2010, 03:53 PM
Jamaal could easily be better than Holmes over time, and Priest never had a back-up like Thomas Jones.

Mike Cox is our fullback. I really don't see Castille as a great FB. Dwayne Bowe could easily be better than Eddie Kennison if he would get his mind into the game. Chambers is our Kennison equivalent. We never had a slot receiver like McCluster either. This offense won't be as good as the 2002 Chiefs, but they could very well be a middle of the pack, possibly top 15 offense.

Our defense today is better than the 2002 defense.

I'll take Castille over Cox any day of the week.

WilliamTheIrish
08-07-2010, 04:00 PM
I don't think this offense will be anything special and I don't think the defense will be any different than last year. 4-12, 5-11.

mcaj22
08-07-2010, 04:23 PM
I think the offense is going to be worse than the defense this year, I don't know why, I just think the young guys on defense will play surprise football.

RustShack
08-07-2010, 04:58 PM
The Chiefs didn't make a lot of changes on defense because a lot of the pieces are already there... It was our first year in the 3-4, its expected to be bad. Not to mention the fact who our DC was, everyone should have known what to expect.. I got bashed by the homers last year for saying he was a terrible hire. Not to mention the fact who our DL coach was, he had no business being with the team after how bad he did the previous few years for us.. not to mention the fact he knew nothing about 3-4 defense.

We have two very talented DE's entering their second year in the 3-4 defense... Our DC is one of the best DL coaches in the league, and his DL coach played almost his entire career on Crennel coached teams. Shaun Smith has been terrible in the 4-3 defense, but his two years with Crennel in the 3-4 he was dominate, and honestly should have went to the Pro Bowl one of those years.

Last year Hali was second in the NFL in QB pressures, and likely would have been up there in sacks if we had better DL play last year.. but I can't say that for sure. The talent is there for DJ, and hes finally working to earn a starting job and not to mention its a contract year, so odds are its finally going to be his breakout year. Vrabel is the needed veteran presence, but will hopefully be splitting a lot of time with promising young guns Sheffield, Studebaker, or anyone else who emerges. I personally like Belcher to be the other ILB, but Mays isn't bad at stopping the run either. If our DL can do its job though, the LB's will look good almost regardless of who it is.

As for the Secondary, Flowers and Carr are easily a top ten duo in the NFL. We now have Eric Berry. Hopefully our defense is good enough to mask the weakness at the other safety position, but our other rook emerging would be real nice. It will probably be McGraw, but like Vrabel hes that smart vet you need on the team even if they aren't the most talented.

So all in all our main two weaknesses are the starting spot next to Berry, an ILB next to DJ, possibly the OLB where Vrabel was last year, and NT which I believe Smith won't be a problem. Edwards isn't a terrible NT either, he just can't play all game all year like last year, hes more of a great backup NT. DL shouldn't be a problem at all though under Crennel, the talent is there. If the DL produces, the who defense will produce.

Ebolapox
08-07-2010, 04:59 PM
how is a second round pick an 'arm and a leg' for cassel? fuck, I was against that trade as anybody (as it prevented us from picking sanchez last year and clausen this year), but a second rounder isn't an arm and a leg. fuck, at least we didn't do what dallas did when they traded for joey galloway... two first rounders.

AustinChief
08-07-2010, 05:16 PM
I fthis offense isn't as good as 02.. it will be for ONE reason.. o-line is still weak. All the other pieces are equal(holding hope for Cassel) or better (minus TE of course.)

RustShack
08-07-2010, 05:40 PM
I'll take Castille over Cox any day of the week.

This.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-07-2010, 05:56 PM
The Chiefs didn't make a lot of changes on defense because a lot of the pieces are already there... It was our first year in the 3-4, its expected to be bad. Not to mention the fact who our DC was, everyone should have known what to expect.. I got bashed by the homers last year for saying he was a terrible hire. Not to mention the fact who our DL coach was, he had no business being with the team after how bad he did the previous few years for us.. not to mention the fact he knew nothing about 3-4 defense.

We have two very talented DE's entering their second year in the 3-4 defense... Our DC is one of the best DL coaches in the league, and his DL coach played almost his entire career on Crennel coached teams. Shaun Smith has been terrible in the 4-3 defense, but his two years with Crennel in the 3-4 he was dominate, and honestly should have went to the Pro Bowl one of those years.

Last year Hali was second in the NFL in QB pressures, and likely would have been up there in sacks if we had better DL play last year.. but I can't say that for sure. The talent is there for DJ, and hes finally working to earn a starting job and not to mention its a contract year, so odds are its finally going to be his breakout year. Vrabel is the needed veteran presence, but will hopefully be splitting a lot of time with promising young guns Sheffield, Studebaker, or anyone else who emerges. I personally like Belcher to be the other ILB, but Mays isn't bad at stopping the run either. If our DL can do its job though, the LB's will look good almost regardless of who it is.

As for the Secondary, Flowers and Carr are easily a top ten duo in the NFL. We now have Eric Berry. Hopefully our defense is good enough to mask the weakness at the other safety position, but our other rook emerging would be real nice. It will probably be McGraw, but like Vrabel hes that smart vet you need on the team even if they aren't the most talented.

So all in all our main two weaknesses are the starting spot next to Berry, an ILB next to DJ, possibly the OLB where Vrabel was last year, and NT which I believe Smith won't be a problem. Edwards isn't a terrible NT either, he just can't play all game all year like last year, hes more of a great backup NT. DL shouldn't be a problem at all though under Crennel, the talent is there. If the DL produces, the who defense will produce.


Interesting take. Player progression is something this franchise has solely lacked over the years.

Pretty optimistic, but I hope you are right. I'm hoping the starting linebackers are Hali, Stude, DJ and Belcher. Studebaker had some pretty good measurables coming out.

RustShack
08-07-2010, 06:44 PM
Yeah thats my starting LB group too.

RustShack
08-07-2010, 08:04 PM
But it is kinda funny how this great offense couldn't move the ball on our second string defense today..

BigMeatballDave
08-07-2010, 08:18 PM
I think it is going to be closer to the 1989 Chiefs that Mass played on. 4-11-1 in 1988. Went 8-7-1 in 1989 in Marty's first year, and just missed out on the playoffs.Except this D isnt nearly as talented.

Saulbadguy
08-07-2010, 08:22 PM
Can someone compare 2001 Trent Green to 2009 Matt Cassel?

HemiEd
08-07-2010, 08:25 PM
I dunno. Maas was saying that this offense is going to be really, really good. But, who knows...

Does he have some inside information about Brodie taking the job away from Cassel?

BigMeatballDave
08-07-2010, 08:28 PM
Can someone compare 2001 Trent Green to 2009 Matt Cassel?Interesting. That has not been done...

Coogs
08-07-2010, 08:31 PM
Except this D isnt nearly as talented.

Maybe.

Berry
Jackson
Dorsey

...all top 5 picks.

Hali
Johnson

... pretty high picks. You don't get to be high picks with no talent at all, regardless of the system that plays to your strength. Crennel earns his keep, and this defense could rival any defense the Chiefs have every put out on the field. Especially if the "role" players fill in the gaps like they must for any defense to succeed.

Oucho Cinco
08-07-2010, 08:59 PM
If we were only 8-8 it would still be a tremendous upgrade from the Herman Edwierds years. Talked about playing to win, but quite never figured out how to do it. Maybe someday he will watch the tapes of all of his interviews and realize that he was the problem in KC, not all of the players he threw under the bus.

RustShack
08-07-2010, 09:02 PM
Odds are if your in the NFL your pretty talented.

RedThat
08-07-2010, 09:02 PM
Maybe.

Berry
Jackson
Dorsey

...all top 5 picks.

Hali
Johnson

... pretty high picks. You don't get to be high picks with no talent at all, regardless of the system that plays to your strength. Crennel earns his keep, and this defense could rival any defense the Chiefs have every put out on the field. Especially if the "role" players fill in the gaps like they must for any defense to succeed.

They have talent BUT I believe they still lack a foundation. They're still missing pieces at critical positions. For one, NT needs to be addressed, and the LBing corps is questionable. If a team is weak in those areas, no matter who your def coordinator is, you can't run a 3-4 efficiently.

Spott
08-07-2010, 09:02 PM
Can someone compare 2001 Trent Green to 2009 Matt Cassel?

2001 Trent Green:
3783 yards passing
17 TD
24 INT
56.6 completion pct
71.1 passer rating

2009 Matt Cassel:
2924 yards passing
16 TD
16 INT
55.0 completion pct
69.9 passer rating

OnTheWarpath58
08-07-2010, 09:39 PM
2001 Trent Green:
3783 yards passing
17 TD
24 INT
56.6 completion pct
71.1 passer rating

2009 Matt Cassel:
2924 yards passing
16 TD
16 INT
63.4 completion pct
69.9 passer rating

You listed Cassel's completion percentage from 2008.

It was 55.0 last year.

RustShack
08-07-2010, 09:55 PM
They have talent BUT I believe they still lack a foundation. They're still missing pieces at critical positions. For one, NT needs to be addressed

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQnPSaubDKV2YWsPoawSCTPNWTFur9t2XHGTFwBXQJaNU59xNQ&t=1&usg=__07xMvFV7ord5hPChfjLio8lOnKg=

http://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Cleveland+Browns+v+Buffalo+Bills+1orXL9r64XUl.jpg

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTqPCvXiVjfpnGrEjScCJYXaYApO6njEluxGKeHWDkqFUWnHKk&t=1&usg=__RfufW73RjTs9WXMkQGktMoHPmwk=

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRqXm8xyR43IiqwzbobF0f4Ybyz6KZ_k00X91vvSqOptNtCKbk&t=1&usg=__a8Vamn3i5Y5zUpUH1MZqV-l8Iog=

Keep doubting Shaun Smith!

Psyko Tek
08-07-2010, 10:54 PM
Trent had an incredible offensive line that gave him a TON of time to find the open receiver and open up gaping holes for Holmes to run through. I agree that we have more playmakers, but the game starts in the trenches on both sides of the ball.

and yet every year the drafturbators wanna get a wr or qb or cb
the OL is the offense
no line
no offense

Psyko Tek
08-07-2010, 10:59 PM
I don't think this offense will be anything special and I don't think the defense will be any different than last year. 4-12, 5-11.

fucking homer

Saccopoo
08-07-2010, 11:50 PM
Not a chance. This offensive line, as it stands now, even with the addition of Lilja, sucks. Maybe the worst in the NFL. Jones is going to struggle between the tackles and Albert and Seamus O'Murphy haven't shown that they can block anyone. Waters is a shell of his former self. Weigmann has already put in his best years as a Chief.

Teams are going to stack the line, blitz the shit out of us and make Cassel beat them. McCluster is going to have to be as special as they envision him being and Charles is going to have to have a full season that compares to his 2009 second half if the Chiefs are going to have any impact on the offensive side of the ball. They aren't going to overpower anyone and are going to have to rely on the speed and agility of those two to get the yardage necessary to move the chains. This team is going to lean on Succop for points and Colquitt for field position. They aren't going to be a good red zone team because of the lack of strength and power up front.

Defensively, I think they will be light years better than last year. The addition of Smith is going to be bigger than most assume, and Jackson and Dorsey will be better than they were last year. Arenas gives the team a legit nickle back, which was where they were completely abused last season. Belcher should be much improved. And safety production has to be better, because it couldn't possibly get any worse.

No, the glaring, obvious hole on this team is the offensive line. Albert better have his epiphany and Asamoah better be as good as his college reputation because their isn't a lot to bank on up front.

BigMeatballDave
08-08-2010, 12:23 AM
Not a chance. This offensive line, as it stands now, even with the addition of Lilja, sucks. Maybe the worst in the NFL. Jones is going to struggle between the tackles and Albert and Seamus O'Murphy haven't shown that they can block anyone. Waters is a shell of his former self. Weigmann has already put in his best years as a Chief.

Teams are going to stack the line, blitz the shit out of us and make Cassel beat them. McCluster is going to have to be as special as they envision him being and Charles is going to have to have a full season that compares to his 2009 second half if the Chiefs are going to have any impact on the offensive side of the ball. They aren't going to overpower anyone and are going to have to rely on the speed and agility of those two to get the yardage necessary to move the chains. This team is going to lean on Succop for points and Colquitt for field position. They aren't going to be a good red zone team because of the lack of strength and power up front.

Defensively, I think they will be light years better than last year. The addition of Smith is going to be bigger than most assume, and Jackson and Dorsey will be better than they were last year. Arenas gives the team a legit nickle back, which was where they were completely abused last season. Belcher should be much improved. And safety production has to be better, because it couldn't possibly get any worse.

No, the glaring, obvious hole on this team is the offensive line. Albert better have his epiphany and Asamoah better be as good as his college reputation because their isn't a lot to bank on up front.Translation: Whaaa! We drafted a safety rather than a LT. Whaaa! :)

BigMeatballDave
08-08-2010, 12:24 AM
and yet every year the drafturbators wanna get a wr or qb or cb
the OL is the offense
no line
no offenseTake a pill. Rome wasnt built in a day...

thebrad84
08-08-2010, 12:38 AM
Take a pill. Rome wasnt built in a day...
What about in 40 years?

milkman
08-08-2010, 04:44 AM
and yet every year the drafturbators wanna get a wr or qb or cb
the OL is the offense
no line
no offense

You see, this is why "drafturbators" get pissed.

You idiots can't seem to grasp simple concepts.

The drafturbators have wanted to draft O-Lineman every year.

milkman
08-08-2010, 04:51 AM
Translation: Whaaa! We drafted a safety rather than a LT. Whaaa! :)

At the end of the day, Okung's Sac is right.

This O-Line hasn't really improved.

Waters is a shell.
Weigman is probably done.

O'Calligan is scrub, at best.

He's even right about Albert.
He does have to have an "epiphane" this year.

Where our opinions diverge is whether Albert will have that epiphane, and that Okung is going to be any better.

Bacon Cheeseburger
08-08-2010, 05:01 AM
Aw crap, I'm up as early as milkman. I'm officially an old fart now.

milkman
08-08-2010, 05:03 AM
Aw crap, I'm up as early as milkman. I'm officially an old fart now.

I wouldn't worry about it.

Technically you aren't up as early as me.

It's 4 am here.

Bacon Cheeseburger
08-08-2010, 05:06 AM
I wouldn't worry about it.

Technically you aren't up as early as me.

It's 4 am here.
Oh, thank god. Carry on.

RustShack
08-08-2010, 05:52 AM
Albert, LT of the Future. Asomoah, RG of the Future. Lilja, LG upgrade.
Roaf---------------------Shields--------------------Waters

The line might not be upgraded, but we sure didn't need to waste a first round pick on one. The pieces are there.

Red Brooklyn
08-08-2010, 08:58 AM
I have no problem with a team that improves to an 8-8 record. I have a problem with a team that consistantly makes moves that keep themselves there.

Yes, sir. Completely agree.

Red Brooklyn
08-08-2010, 09:05 AM
The Chiefs didn't make a lot of changes on defense because a lot of the pieces are already there... It was our first year in the 3-4, its expected to be bad. Not to mention the fact who our DC was, everyone should have known what to expect.. I got bashed by the homers last year for saying he was a terrible hire. Not to mention the fact who our DL coach was, he had no business being with the team after how bad he did the previous few years for us.. not to mention the fact he knew nothing about 3-4 defense.

We have two very talented DE's entering their second year in the 3-4 defense... Our DC is one of the best DL coaches in the league, and his DL coach played almost his entire career on Crennel coached teams. Shaun Smith has been terrible in the 4-3 defense, but his two years with Crennel in the 3-4 he was dominate, and honestly should have went to the Pro Bowl one of those years.

Last year Hali was second in the NFL in QB pressures, and likely would have been up there in sacks if we had better DL play last year.. but I can't say that for sure. The talent is there for DJ, and hes finally working to earn a starting job and not to mention its a contract year, so odds are its finally going to be his breakout year. Vrabel is the needed veteran presence, but will hopefully be splitting a lot of time with promising young guns Sheffield, Studebaker, or anyone else who emerges. I personally like Belcher to be the other ILB, but Mays isn't bad at stopping the run either. If our DL can do its job though, the LB's will look good almost regardless of who it is.

As for the Secondary, Flowers and Carr are easily a top ten duo in the NFL. We now have Eric Berry. Hopefully our defense is good enough to mask the weakness at the other safety position, but our other rook emerging would be real nice. It will probably be McGraw, but like Vrabel hes that smart vet you need on the team even if they aren't the most talented.

So all in all our main two weaknesses are the starting spot next to Berry, an ILB next to DJ, possibly the OLB where Vrabel was last year, and NT which I believe Smith won't be a problem. Edwards isn't a terrible NT either, he just can't play all game all year like last year, hes more of a great backup NT. DL shouldn't be a problem at all though under Crennel, the talent is there. If the DL produces, the who defense will produce.
Incredibly optimistic. But I love it. I hope you're right.

Rausch
08-08-2010, 09:08 AM
That 02-03 stretch was LOADED on the offensive line. The depth wasn't great but the front five might be top 15 all time.

Then you had TRich and Dunn (The 3rd OT) to throw in the mix as well...

Rausch
08-08-2010, 09:10 AM
Good Lord, I don't know how that 2006 team got to 9-7. They were awful. I remember that a bad 49'ers team had to beat the Bronco's (which happened), and I think Pittsburgh had to beat Cinci (which happened), and something else...

There were three completely perfect things that had to happen for that team to get into the playoffs.

IIRC there were 4 teams that had to lose before the Denver (late) game AND Denver had to lose at home to a losing team.





It was the only miracle I've ever seen followed by an abortion...:shake:

notorious
08-08-2010, 09:15 AM
IIRC there were 4 teams that had to lose before the Denver (late) game AND Denver had to lose at home to a losing team.





It was the only miracle I've ever seen followed by an abortion...:shake:


We were so excited when it happened.


The sad thing is that it probably bought Herm and Carl an extra year.........

Red Brooklyn
08-08-2010, 09:17 AM
We were so excited when it happened.


The sad thing is that it probably bought Herm and Carl an extra year.........

It was the ultimate sports example of 'careful what you wish for.'

milkman
08-08-2010, 09:19 AM
We were so excited when it happened.


The sad thing is that it probably bought Herm and Carl an extra year.........

I wouldn't call what I felt excitement.

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 09:20 AM
We were so excited when it happened.


The sad thing is that it probably bought Herm and Carl an extra year.........

Worth it, considering they gave us Charles, Flowers, Carr, Bowe and Albert.

BigMeatballDave
08-08-2010, 05:51 PM
At the end of the day, Okung's Sac is right.

This O-Line hasn't really improved.

Waters is a shell.
Weigman is probably done.

O'Calligan is scrub, at best.

He's even right about Albert.
He does have to have an "epiphane" this year.

Where our opinions diverge is whether Albert will have that epiphane, and that Okung is going to be any better.While I agree he's not wrong about this line, he was dead set against drafting a safety that high. Thats where I'm trying to bust his balls. Had we not drafted Albert 2 yrs ago, I'd be fine with Okung. Sac thinks its too early to take a safety that high. Berry is a difference maker. The is no such thing as drafting a one of those too high. (Unless its a kicker:))

notorious
08-08-2010, 05:56 PM
It was the ultimate sports example of 'careful what you wish for.'

I wouldn't call what I felt excitement.

Worth it, considering they gave us Charles, Flowers, Carr, Bowe and Albert.

I was pumped. It was nice to sneak in under miracle conditions due to a Bronco collapse against the worst team in the league AT HOME.

The worst part? We were set to play our Arch Playoff Nemesis in Indy with an excellent running game against the worst defense in the NFL. What happened? No first fucking downs until the end of the 3rd.

So yes, Mr. Brooklyn, you are perfect in your statement.



.......FUCK..........

MahiMike
08-08-2010, 06:59 PM
Put me down for...

"I'll take it!"

milkman
08-08-2010, 07:29 PM
While I agree he's not wrong about this line, he was dead set against drafting a safety that high. Thats where I'm trying to bust his balls. Had we not drafted Albert 2 yrs ago, I'd be fine with Okung. Sac thinks its too early to take a safety that high. Berry is a difference maker. The is no such thing as drafting a one of those too high. (Unless its a kicker:))

I think Berry is a playmaker that we simply could not pass on even though his impact will not be nearly as.....uh.....impactful.....until we get a difference maker up front.

milkman
08-08-2010, 07:31 PM
I was pumped. It was nice to sneak in under miracle conditions due to a Bronco collapse against the worst team in the league AT HOME.

The worst part? We were set to play our Arch Playoff Nemesis in Indy with an excellent running game against the worst defense in the NFL. What happened? No first ****ing downs until the end of the 3rd.

So yes, Mr. Brooklyn, you are perfect in your statement.



.......****..........

I expected to lose.

They sucked.

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 07:37 PM
I expected to lose.

They sucked.

The sad part is, had the offense bothered to play even average that day, we have a chance.

The defense did their part - at least until they wore down in the 2nd half from being on the field all day.

I still can't get over the fact that Ty fucking Law couldn't juke Manning on that INT. Shoulda been 6.

Coogs
08-08-2010, 09:18 PM
They have talent BUT I believe they still lack a foundation. They're still missing pieces at critical positions. For one, NT needs to be addressed, and the LBing corps is questionable. If a team is weak in those areas, no matter who your def coordinator is, you can't run a 3-4 efficiently.

Well, we have two of those #1 picks playing the LB spots in Hali and Johnson. And we have some role players that must fill the other spots within that unit.

Same on the front 3. Two top five picks bookending a NT. Franklin from the 49ers kind of came out of nowhere after 4 unspectaular seasons. Maybe the Chiefs can come up with someone in that same mold in Lokey.


Role players must step up. You can not have a whole defense of 1st round talent.

BossChief
08-08-2010, 09:23 PM
The sad part is, had the offense bothered to play even average that day, we have a chance.

The defense did their part - at least until they wore down in the 2nd half from being on the field all day.

I still can't get over the fact that Ty fucking Law couldn't juke Manning on that INT. Shoulda been 6.
and missing the chip shot seemingly deflated us. Not sure we ever recovered.

chiefzilla1501
08-08-2010, 09:53 PM
Not a chance. This offensive line, as it stands now, even with the addition of Lilja, sucks. Maybe the worst in the NFL. Jones is going to struggle between the tackles and Albert and Seamus O'Murphy haven't shown that they can block anyone. Waters is a shell of his former self. Weigmann has already put in his best years as a Chief.

Teams are going to stack the line, blitz the shit out of us and make Cassel beat them. McCluster is going to have to be as special as they envision him being and Charles is going to have to have a full season that compares to his 2009 second half if the Chiefs are going to have any impact on the offensive side of the ball. They aren't going to overpower anyone and are going to have to rely on the speed and agility of those two to get the yardage necessary to move the chains. This team is going to lean on Succop for points and Colquitt for field position. They aren't going to be a good red zone team because of the lack of strength and power up front.

Defensively, I think they will be light years better than last year. The addition of Smith is going to be bigger than most assume, and Jackson and Dorsey will be better than they were last year. Arenas gives the team a legit nickle back, which was where they were completely abused last season. Belcher should be much improved. And safety production has to be better, because it couldn't possibly get any worse.

No, the glaring, obvious hole on this team is the offensive line. Albert better have his epiphany and Asamoah better be as good as his college reputation because their isn't a lot to bank on up front.

The offensive line isn't a liability, if you can get beyond the idea that you ahve to have 5 pro bowlers on your offensive line to be successful. Albert showed he can block plenty by the end of the season. He's on his third system and by the way, he's still only 3 years removed from playing Guard. He won't be worse than last year and good chance he's a lot better.

The run blocking was solid to close t he season. And Weis is going to have Cassel get rid of the ball ultra fast. And if Lilja starts at LG, And Asomoah makes it over to RG, this offensive line is good enough. Not great, but good enough.

There's no doubt that the interior defense is our biggest liability. It's not even close.

Saccopoo
08-08-2010, 11:08 PM
While I agree he's not wrong about this line, he was dead set against drafting a safety that high. Thats where I'm trying to bust his balls. Had we not drafted Albert 2 yrs ago, I'd be fine with Okung. Sac thinks its too early to take a safety that high. Berry is a difference maker. The is no such thing as drafting a one of those too high. (Unless its a kicker:))

Dude, he's a fucking safety. And as far as being a difference maker, there's only so much he's going to be able to do as a safety just by being a safety. That's a huge roll of the dice. We needed a safety, he was the best available. I'm fine with that. But only drafting a single offensive lineman when it was obvious that we needed to address those positions was illogical.

Denver picks their QBOTF, a #1 & #2 receiver (Thomas & Decker) and potentially three new starters on the offensive line (Beadles, Walton & Olsen). Regardless of what you think of a particular player, that's focusing on your key positions.

We use our first three picks on a safety, a slot receiver and a nickel back. And that's not to say that we didn't need those positions - we did, but they are odd picks in terms of what is generally considered as the "core" of a football team. (And I'm just flabbergasted about trading up into the third round for a tight end - after we traded up last year for one.)

Either Pioli is a genius or completely insane.

KCrockaholic
08-08-2010, 11:52 PM
Eric Berry is a fucking man-beast safety/CB/NB god damn it. Sac of shit can go beat off to a picture of Knowshit if he likes the Broncos draft so much.

bobbything
08-09-2010, 08:21 AM
and missing the chip shot seemingly deflated us. Not sure we ever recovered.
That offensive series absolutely killed that team. Law picks off Manning and runs it down to the 9 yard line. We were 9 yards away from going up 7-6. I remember running the ball THREE STRAIGHT TIMES. IIRC, on first down, whoever our center was, stepped on Green's foot. That set the tone for the series and was capped off by a missed 23 yard field goal.

Had a chance to take the lead, ended up with nothing.

God I hated that team.

Frazod
08-09-2010, 08:55 AM
The most painful thing about that 2002 team was how many close games we lost. IIRC, we lost 7 games by a combined total of 21 points. Very frustrating, but at least we were competitive. At this point, I'd settle for competitive again, but winning would be nice, too.

bobbything
08-09-2010, 08:57 AM
how is a second round pick an 'arm and a leg' for cassel? ****, I was against that trade as anybody (as it prevented us from picking sanchez last year and clausen this year), but a second rounder isn't an arm and a leg. ****, at least we didn't do what dallas did when they traded for joey galloway... two first rounders.
2nd rounder and $63 million, with $28 million guaranteed. That's a lot for what we got out of him last year.

I was dead-wrong about Trent Green, so I'm reserving judgment until this season is over.