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58-4ever
08-08-2010, 01:50 PM
Pretty good read. Blow me if it's a repost.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/don_banks/08/08/chiefs.postcard/index.html?eref=sihp

Setting The Scene


Now I understand why the Chiefs decided to return to Missouri for training camp for the first time since 1990, vacating the University of Wisconsin-River Falls after 19 summers there. They drew a stadium record 10,721 fans to Saturday afternoon's intra-squad scrimmage at its new Missouri Western State University camp site in St. Joseph, Mo., about an hour north of Kansas City. Starting about 90 minutes before the scrimmage began, cars were lined up and snaking their way onto campus for as far as the eye could see. It was like something out of the final scene from the movie Field of Dreams. (If you move them, they will come).

Three Observations


1. I might sound at the moment like I'm drinking the Kool-Aid the Chiefs are dishing out, but I really believe we may look back at Kansas City's 2010 draft class in years to come and view it as the kind of foundation-type draft that serves as a springboard for future Chiefs success. I know, that's a mouthful. But in first-round safety Eric Berry, second-round receiver Dexter McCluster, second-round cornerback Javier Arenas, third-round guard/center Jon Asamoah, third-round tight end Tony Moeaki, and fifth-round safety Kendrick Lewis, it looks to me like the Chiefs have found six pretty good potential contributors in their seven-man draft class.
It's August, but I think Berry, McCluster, Arenas and Moeaki are going to show up, get on the field, and produce right away in 2010, and I like both Asamoah and Lewis to eventually work their way into mix. The Chiefs don't want to weigh their rookies down with too much of the burden of expectation, but there's a real sense of anticipation for what this draft class could represent in Kansas City's rebuilding program.
"I've said that exact thing a couple times,'' Chiefs second-year head coach Todd Haley admitted Saturday, when I broached the idea of this year's group as a turning point draft class. "You've got to temper that with the fact that none of these guys have done anything yet. But if all the indicators to this point that we can have about this group continue in that direction, then it'll be a pretty good group.''
If a turnaround story does unfold in Kansas City in the next two years, remember my prediction about the Chiefs' Class of 2010. If it doesn't, forget I ever said anything.

2. It's gotta be a little tough to be a rookie named "Tony'' when you're trying to play the tight end position in Kansas City, but Moeaki (pronounced MO-ee-AH-kee) has more than a few Tony Gonzalez-like skills in his game. He's big (6-foot-3, 252 pounds), can really move well, and has flashed great hands so far in Chiefs camp. He can even block, as he proved in Iowa's bowl game against Georgia Tech last year, when he manhandled Yellow Jackets star defensive end Derrick Morgan more than once. He was only available in the third round because he was a bit injury prone as a Hawkeye, but the Chiefs believe they have a steal in a guy who Iowa head coach Kirk Ferentz has compared favorably to former Hawkeyes tight end Dallas Clark.
"If we can keep this guy going in the direction he's going, we've got something,'' Haley said. "He's a football player now. In all areas. He's got a great feel for the game. He can catch the ball and he does things as a route runner that I've been trying to get receivers to do for 10 years.''

3. You can not over-estimate the impact free-agent running back Thomas Jones has made so far on the Chiefs, both in terms of his work ethic and leadership. He's the kind of player that gets other players to follow his example in terms of professionalism and his approach to the game, and frankly Kansas City has been in short supply of those in recent years. And after dealing with a bit of a knee issue at the start of camp, Jones is showing he still has some tread left on his tires at 31.
Last year, Chiefs new general manager Scott Pioli and Haley tried to seed their locker room with veteran leaders who could show the team's younger players how to play the game, but the impact of guys like Zach Thomas, Amani Toomer and Bobby Engram was limited because they were done and at the end of their careers. (Ex-Patriots linebacker Mike Vrabel was the exception to that rule). But Kansas City had better luck this time around in signing veterans like Jones, guard Ryan Lilja, and center Casey Wiegmann, and re-signing Vrabel, and the Chiefs are hopeful that those additions will help off-set the immaturity level that has plagued the Kansas City locker room in recent years.

"Thomas Jones, he's off the charts,'' said Haley of the ex-Jet who gained a career-high 1,402 yards last season and will complement Chiefs' 1,120-yard rusher Jamaal Charles. "I've never been around somebody who's the complete package like him, and I've been around a lot of great leaders and players. The thing I'm most excited about is, on tape you saw no drop-off last year, but you always worry about that position when you get to a certain age. But when I saw him start to run in camp, I said 'this is the guy.'
"And then the leadership side. The guy is a beast. He is the real deal. Because he knows what it takes. Nobody can out work him. He's been part of turnaround teams and he's been part of success in places that hadn't had a lot of success . And now he's got something to prove [because the Jets let him go], so it's a good combination.''
New Face, New Place
I'm going to break a postcard from camp rule here and give you two new faces: Chiefs coordinators Charlie Weis (offense) and Romeo Crennel (defense). Remember them? Used to be in New England. Won a few rings. Tried head coaching. Didn't really work out.
I can actually vouch for Crennel being back, because I saw him on the Chiefs sideline calling the defensive signals during the team's intra-squad scrimmage. But I never laid eyes on Weis, the former Notre Dame head coach, while in Chiefs camp on Saturday. He did his work during the scrimmage up in the coaches box, far removed from the media. Both Weis and Crennel have kept a very low profile so far in camp, and they're only going to talk to the media for the first time on Monday after practice.
After last year's upheaval at the coordinator slot in Kansas City -- offensive play-caller Chan Gailey was fired late in the preseason with Haley taking over, and defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast got the boot after the 2009 season -- having two old hands like Weis and Crennel on the job must be comforting to the Chiefs. And if they can re-create some of their New England magic, well, that's all the better.
Rookie Report
McCluster has created most of the buzz so far among Chiefs rookies, and it's clear that Kansas City quarterback Matt Cassel loves the new toy that Pioli and Haley got him in the draft. The 5-foot-8, 170-pound former Ole Miss receiver-running back-return specialist has got some juice as they say, and look for the Chiefs to get him the ball in a variety of ways, first and foremost via the passing game. But he'll also rush a little in some sets and return kicks.
The Chiefs can't wait until teams try to go man against McCluster, because they think he'll be able to shake most any defender. His speed, wiggle, and big-play skill set adds an element to the Kansas City offense that it hasn't had for years, and I expect the Chiefs to try and take advantage of his ability to separate early and often in third-down situations, where Kansas City was dreadful last year.


[B]Memorable Image

I didn't see this first-hand on Saturday due to the scrimmage, but I have to relay this image from Chiefs camp. Assistant head coach Maurice Carthon has introduced a new drill during some practices this summer. It's called the Port-a-Potty drill, and here's why: A Chiefs pass-catcher goes into the portable bathroom that's on the side of one of the team's practice fields and closes the door, in full uniform, mind you.
Then, as another player yanks the door open, someone fires a pass at the player in the Port-a-Potty, who must react quickly and make the catch. It's supposed to sharpen a player's ability to concentrate on the ball despite the distraction of a defender blocking their view, or some kind of obstruction taking place.
But in the case of the Chiefs struggling offense, the unusual drill certainly seems rife for supplying your own punch line. I'm thinking of a couple right now. I'll bet you are too.


Parting Shots


1. Improvement on defense this year in Kansas City depends a lot on if first-round 3-4 defensive ends Glenn Dorsey and Tyson Jackson can both make a jump in their third and second seasons, respectively. Dorsey made improvement in the second half of last season after first reporting to camp overweight, and now it's Jackson's turn to take the next step in his game.
It's early, but the hope is that Crennel and new Chiefs defensive line coach Anthony Pleasant can help elevate Dorsey and Jackson's games to new levels. Haley told me he saw some very real progress from both players in the scrimmage, calling it an "encouraging sign.'' Dorsey went fifth overall in 2008, and Jackson was selected third overall in 2009, and everyone knows the Chiefs simply can't miss with picks that high.
2. I liked what I saw Saturday from Chiefs first-round pick, Berry, who went fifth overall. The ex-Tennessee safety is looking solid and getting first-team reps, and he had a nice interception during the scrimmage. The Chiefs love his study habits, work ethic and intellect. Combined with the versatile Arenas and the intriguing fifth-round safety, Lewis, there's some young talent to build on in the Kansas City secondary.
3. Chiefs fourth-year receiver Dwayne Bowe is having an impressive camp so far. He came in this year in shape at 210 pounds, compared to the bloated 240 he was at the start of camp in 2009. I saw Bowe make a very nifty, toe-tapping 14-yard catch on the sideline in the scrimmage, and I think he's ready for a bounce-back season after missing five games due to a league suspension and injury last year.
4. It's all sounding rather hopeful in Kansas City these days, but the Chiefs roster still has precious little depth. Other than the running back position, where Charles and Jones figure to form a productive tandem, there's not another part of the Kansas City depth chart that goes too deep. Third place in the AFC West and anything over six wins would pass as real progress for the still-rebuilding Chiefs.
5. Just a hunch, but I think Cassel's definitely going to earn more of that big contract the Chiefs awarded him last summer just before camp. I think having Weis in his ear is going to help elevate his game quite a bit, and Kansas City's offense simply has more play-makers at its disposal with Jones, McCluster and Moeaki on hand.

58-4ever
08-08-2010, 01:53 PM
I'm glad we are focusing on things like the port-a-potty. If that drill doesn't help, I don't know what will.

T-post Tom
08-08-2010, 02:00 PM
good read

T-post Tom
08-08-2010, 02:03 PM
I'm glad we are focusing on things like the port-a-potty. If that drill doesn't help, I don't know what will.

Actually, it's a good idea from a training perspective. Creative and a bit of a novelty to add some fun to training camp. Plus it helps receivers with their reaction time. Kudos to the coaches for keeping it fresh.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/2010/writers/don_banks/08/08/chiefs.postcard/eric-berry-getty-story.jpg

First-round pick Eric Berry (right) should make an immediate impact in the Chiefs defensive backfield.

SNR
08-08-2010, 02:04 PM
There's enough fap material in there to last Chiefs homers AT LEAST a good week

58-4ever
08-08-2010, 02:05 PM
Actually, it's a good idea from a training perspective. Creative and a bit of a novelty to add some fun to training camp. Plus it helps receivers with their reaction time. Kudos to the coaches for keeping it fresh.

True, but the correlation seems odd to me

T-post Tom
08-08-2010, 02:07 PM
There's enough fap material in there to last Chiefs homers AT LEAST a good week

nttiawwt :)

T-post Tom
08-08-2010, 02:10 PM
True, but the correlation seems odd to me

Probably an impromtu creative moment from the coach. From what I heard, the players enjoyed it and had a nice laugh. As long as we don't have any coaches going Jack Del Rio with an axe in the locker room, I'm okay with mixing it up for the players. :D

58-4ever
08-08-2010, 02:13 PM
Probably an impromtu creative moment from the coach. From what I heard, the players enjoyed it and had a nice laugh. As long as we don't have any coaches going Jack Del Rio with an axe in the locker room, I'm okay with mixing it up for the players. :D

good point. those two-a-days can get quite monotonous

thurman merman
08-08-2010, 02:20 PM
"Thomas Jones, he's off the charts,'' said Haley of the ex-Jet who gained a career-high 1,402 yards last season and will complement Chiefs' 1,120-yard rusher Jamaal Charles. "I've never been around somebody who's the complete package like him, and I've been around a lot of great leaders and players. The thing I'm most excited about is, on tape you saw no drop-off last year, but you always worry about that position when you get to a certain age. But when I saw him start to run in camp, I said 'this is the guy.'"


:spock: what does that mean?

T-post Tom
08-08-2010, 02:22 PM
good point. those two-a-days can get quite monotonous

That's what the players say. Also, adding things like that (especially for the younger players) goes a long way in building camaraderie and team spirit.

T-post Tom
08-08-2010, 02:26 PM
:spock: what does that mean?

I think he meant that he was hesitant to get too excited about Thomas due to his age. But once he saw Thomas run in camp, he knew that there was no drop off after last season and the production that Haley saw on tape. I see his point, because it's not uncommon to see NFL rb's have extremely sudden dropoffs in their production once they hit their 30's.

58-4ever
08-08-2010, 03:02 PM
I think he meant that he was hesitant to get too excited about Thomas due to his age. But once he saw Thomas run in camp, he knew that there was no drop off after last season and the production that Haley saw on tape. I see his point, because it's not uncommon to see NFL rb's have extremely sudden dropoffs in their production once they hit their 30's.

Yeah, I took that what he saw on tape matched the guy in practice, which is a really good thing to see. :clap:

DaneMcCloud
08-08-2010, 03:02 PM
Six wins. That's pretty much on the money.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-08-2010, 03:08 PM
There's enough fap material in there to last Chiefs homers AT LEAST a good week

No kidding, just rubbed one out myself after reading that.

58-4ever
08-08-2010, 03:18 PM
No kidding, just rubbed one out myself after reading that.

Was it the six wins part that got you? :doh!:

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-08-2010, 03:28 PM
Was it the six wins part that got you? :doh!:

No, it was this :thumb:


Last year, Chiefs new general manager Scott Pioli and Haley tried to seed their locker room with veteran leaders who could show the team's younger players how to play the game, but the impact of guys like Zach Thomas, Amani Toomer and Bobby Engram was limited because they were done and at the end of their careers. (Ex-Patriots linebacker Mike Vrabel was the exception to that rule). But Kansas City had better luck this time around in signing veterans like Jones, guard Ryan Lilja, and center Casey Wiegmann, and re-signing Vrabel, and the Chiefs are hopeful that those additions will help off-set the immaturity level that has plagued the Kansas City locker room in recent years.

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 03:38 PM
Six wins. That's pretty much on the money.

This is the 2nd article I've read where the writer goes on and on about how great everything is in KC and how they are a major sleeper, then they finish by predicting 6 wins.

Why pimp them only to lower expectations?

There' no reason for this team to win less than 8 games with this schedule. Anything less is a huge disappointment, IMO. It shouldn't take 3+ years to rebuild a NFL team.

58-4ever
08-08-2010, 03:39 PM
No, it was this :thumb:


Last year, Chiefs new general manager Scott Pioli and Haley tried to seed their locker room with veteran leaders who could show the team's younger players how to play the game, but the impact of guys like Zach Thomas, Amani Toomer and Bobby Engram was limited because they were done and at the end of their careers. (Ex-Patriots linebacker Mike Vrabel was the exception to that rule). But Kansas City had better luck this time around in signing veterans like Jones, guard Ryan Lilja, and center Casey Wiegmann, and re-signing Vrabel, and the Chiefs are hopeful that those additions will help off-set the immaturity level that has plagued the Kansas City locker room in recent years.

Of all the things wrong with last year's team, I don't think you can really point a finger (and remain serious) at Mike Vrabel.

58-4ever
08-08-2010, 03:40 PM
This is the 2nd article I've read where the writer goes on and on about how great everything is in KC and how they are a major sleeper, then they finish by predicting 6 wins.

Why pimp them only to lower expectations?

There' no reason for this team to win less than 8 games with this schedule. Anything less is a huge disappointment, IMO. It shouldn't take 3+ years to rebuild a NFL team.

I completely agree.

Tuckdaddy
08-08-2010, 03:49 PM
Bowe and impressive in the same sentence? That means he's atucally catching the ball.

milkman
08-08-2010, 03:53 PM
I don't believe this schedule is going to be as soft as most think.

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 03:54 PM
Of all the things wrong with last year's team, I don't think you can really point a finger (and remain serious) at Mike Vrabel.

Just because there were other aspects of the team that were shittier, doesn't mean that Vrabel's shitty play should be excused.

JMO.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-08-2010, 03:54 PM
This is the 2nd article I've read where the writer goes on and on about how great everything is in KC and how they are a major sleeper, then they finish by predicting 6 wins.

Why pimp them only to lower expectations?

There' no reason for this team to win less than 8 games with this schedule. Anything less is a huge disappointment, IMO. It shouldn't take 3+ years to rebuild a NFL team.

Absolutely.

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 03:54 PM
I don't believe this schedule is going to be as soft as most think.

I don't care if it does end up being more challenging.

8 and fucking 8 - or better.

No excuses.

Just Passin' By
08-08-2010, 03:55 PM
It shouldn't take 3+ years to rebuild a NFL team.

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/img/music2/fantasyisland.jpg

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 03:56 PM
http://www.brooklynvegan.com/img/music2/fantasyisland.jpg

Is that you on the left?

Marcellus
08-08-2010, 04:00 PM
This is the 2nd article I've read where the writer goes on and on about how great everything is in KC and how they are a major sleeper, then they finish by predicting 6 wins.

Why pimp them only to lower expectations?

There' no reason for this team to win less than 8 games with this schedule. Anything less is a huge disappointment, IMO. It shouldn't take 3+ years to rebuild a NFL team.

That completely depends on where you start and what you want the end result to be.

KC was an old team 3 years ago and had no direction.


Do you want a 1 year wonder or a solid base? If you want a solid base it takes at least 3 years to get it built.

Atlanta went from real bad to a PO team in a year but took a step backwards om year 2 of the rebuild. No telling how good they will be this year, we will see.

Miami went from bad to good then went backwards in year 2 of the rebuild and there is no sign that they will be greatly improved this year in year 3 of the rebuild.

It's not easy to clean up a train wreck.

Just Passin' By
08-08-2010, 04:01 PM
Is that you on the left?

No. The one on the right represents a normal-sized human brain. Yours is on the left for comparison.

Marcellus
08-08-2010, 04:01 PM
I don't care if it does end up being more challenging.

8 and ****ing 8 - or better.

No excuses.

Have you not stated in the past that the record isn't as important as the level of improvement you see on the field?

milkman
08-08-2010, 04:02 PM
I don't care if it does end up being more challenging.

8 and ****ing 8 - or better.

No excuses.

I'm not saying there are excuses.

I'm saying that I doubt they can meet your expectations because I don't expect the Chiefs to be improved to that level.

I don't think they've done enough to win more than 5 games.

I agree that there shouldn't be any reason a team takes more than three years, especially when foundation players like Albert, Dorsey, Flowers and Charles were already in place.

I'm saying I don't think they did it right.

Reaper16
08-08-2010, 04:03 PM
You rarely hear about a draft class that has a second round nickleback and a second round explosive-for-three-seasons slot receiver as "foundational." That might be the last word I'd use.

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 04:04 PM
That completely depends on where you start and what you want the end result to be.

KC was an old team 3 years ago and had no direction.


Do you want a 1 year wonder or a solid base? If you want a solid base it takes at least 3 years to get it built.

Atlanta went from real bad to a PO team in a year but took a step backwards om year 2 of the rebuild. No telling how good they will be this year, we will see.

Miami went from bad to good then went backwards in year 2 of the rebuild and there is no sign that they will be greatly improved this year in year 3 of the rebuild.

It's not easy to clean up a train wreck.

Both of those teams had young, inexperienced QB's that contributed greatly to the step back. They aren't going to be perfect every year. And you're ignoring that they both got to 10+ wins to begin with. It's not like they fell back to 4 wins. Both were still very competitive. Hell, Atlanta was 9-7. Can't wait until we take a "step back" and it results in 9-7.

I'm sorry, you can spin this pro-Pioli all you want, but it doesn't - and shouldn't - take 3 years to rebuild a NFL team.

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 04:06 PM
No. The one on the right represents a normal-sized human brain. Yours is on the left for comparison.

Says the guy trolling a message board of a team he isn't a fan of.

Comical.

You might as well came back with, "I know you are but what am I?"

Now let the adults get back to talking football.

Thanks.

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 04:08 PM
I'm not saying there are excuses.

I'm saying that I doubt they can meet your expectations because I don't expect the Chiefs to be improved to that level.

I don't think they've done enough to win more than 5 games.

I agree that there shouldn't be any reason a team takes more than three years, especially when foundation players like Albert, Dorsey, Flowers and Charles were already in place.

I'm saying I don't think they did it right.

I agree completely. I don't think they'll win 8 games - I'm just saying that in year 2 of a rebuild, they should. Like you said, their best players were already here.

DaneMcCloud
08-08-2010, 04:11 PM
This is the 2nd article I've read where the writer goes on and on about how great everything is in KC and how they are a major sleeper, then they finish by predicting 6 wins.

Why pimp them only to lower expectations?

There' no reason for this team to win less than 8 games with this schedule. Anything less is a huge disappointment, IMO. It shouldn't take 3+ years to rebuild a NFL team.

While I agree that it shouldn't take more than three years to build a competitive football team (and by competitive, I mean 8-12 wins consistently, year in, year out), it's impossible to do so when in Year Two of the "Plan", your best player is a 7th round compensatory kicker.

The Chiefs failed to add one impact player from January 2009 through October 2009. And that one impact player they added later in the season will likely be finished by the time the Chiefs are ready to compete.

I'm also not a big proponent of "easy" or "hard" schedules. Each year, some teams are less competitive, some are more competitive. In the end, it all evens out.

With that said, anything more than six wins is a step in the right direction. This team isn't team at any position other than running back and injuries to key starters anywhere across the board will have a drastic affect on their ability to close and win games.

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 04:11 PM
Have you not stated in the past that the record isn't as important as the level of improvement you see on the field?

It's not for a team with no expectations.

In year two of a rebuild, however, if they are improving at the level they should be, the record will reflect it. This team winning 5-6 games isn't improvement regardless of how you look at it.

Again, no excuses.

Or we can just sit patiently as they get a single win better every year.

DeezNutz
08-08-2010, 04:13 PM
Have you not stated in the past that the record isn't as important as the level of improvement you see on the field?

I have, and I still believe this is an appropriate view. But...when the major changes are to the coaching staff, you're saying that talent isn't the problem.

And at some point, you have to evaluate based on record. The question is whether or not we're at that point.

I believe this team should win 8. Anything less than 6 wins should be viewed as an absolute disaster.

So, when it's nut-cutting time, I'm willing to allow for a bit of gray area. Next year, it should be playoff run or bust. With firings to follow if expectations are not met.

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 04:15 PM
While I agree that it shouldn't take more than three years to build a competitive football team (and by competitive, I mean 8-12 wins consistently, year in, year out), it's impossible to do so when in Year Two of the "Plan", your best player is a 7th round compensatory kicker.

I agree. That doesn't mean I'm changing my expectations.

Listen, everyone went on and fucking on about what a great hire Pioli was, and how we'd be relevant again, and how he'd build a consistent winner.

It doesn't take 3 years to do that. Especially not for the Executive of the Decade.

It's not my problem that he completely goatfucked the first year of "the process."

If others want to give the guy a pass for 4-5 years simply because he fucked up the first year, that's their right.

I'm not, however.

Time to take the next step. No excuses.

Ugly Duck
08-08-2010, 04:16 PM
Port-a-Potty drill: A Chiefs pass-catcher goes into the portable bathroom in full uniform. Then, as another player yanks the door open, someone fires a pass at the player in the Port-a-Potty

Somehow.... this makes me feel a little better about our chances this season...

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 04:17 PM
I have, and I still believe this is an appropriate view. But...when the major changes are to the coaching staff, you're saying that talent isn't the problem.

And at some point, you have to evaluate based on record. The question is whether or not we're at that point.

I believe this team should win 8. Anything less than 6 wins should be viewed as an absolute disaster.

So, when it's nut-cutting time, I'm willing to allow for a bit of gray area. Next year, it should be playoff run or bust. With firings to follow if expectations are not met.

Great post.

DaneMcCloud
08-08-2010, 04:18 PM
I agree. That doesn't mean I'm changing my expectations.

Listen, everyone went on and fucking on about what a great hire Pioli was, and how we'd be relevant again, and how he'd build a consistent winner.

It doesn't take 3 years to do that. Especially not for the Executive of the Decade.

It's not my problem that he completely goatfucked the first year of "the process."

If others want to give the guy a pass for 4-5 years simply because he fucked up the first year, that's their right.

I'm not, however.

Time to take the next step. No excuses.

I agree in theory but I don't think it'll happen. And if Cassel completely shits the bed, they're probably looking at 4-12 or 5-11 at best.

And in need of a starting QB for 2011.

DaneMcCloud
08-08-2010, 04:20 PM
So, when it's nut-cutting time, I'm willing to allow for a bit of gray area. Next year, it should be playoff run or bust. With firings to follow if expectations are not met.

Who would be fired?

The only person I believe that could be fired in that scenario is Todd Haley. And I think even he will get a pass.

There's no way they fire Weis or Crennel and since Pioli has a guaranteed five year contract, he'll never be fired.

I don't think they'll even be close to being a consistently competitive team until 2011 at the very earliest.

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-08-2010, 04:22 PM
11 Games against the Broncos, Raiders, Rams, Cardinals, 49ers, Seahawks, Bills, Browns, and Jags.

Anything less than 7 wins is abject failure.

DeezNutz
08-08-2010, 04:22 PM
Who would be fired?

The only person I believe that could be fired in that scenario is Todd Haley. And I think even he will get a pass.

There's no way they fire Weis or Crennel and since Pioli has a guaranteed five year contract, he'll never be fired.

I don't think they'll even be close to being a consistently competitive team until 2011 at the very earliest.

Haley would have to fall on the sword, but I'm talking about a playoff run in 2011. Everyone is completely safe, barring impressive disaster, in 2010.

Discuss Thrower
08-08-2010, 04:34 PM
I have, and I still believe this is an appropriate view. But...when the major changes are to the coaching staff, you're saying that talent isn't the problem.

And at some point, you have to evaluate based on record. The question is whether or not we're at that point.

I believe this team should win 8. Anything less than 6 wins should be viewed as an absolute disaster.

So, when it's nut-cutting time, I'm willing to allow for a bit of gray area. Next year, it should be playoff run or bust. With firings to follow if expectations are not met.

I'd challenge you there and say that four or less wins would be a disaster. 7 or 9 win season could easily become a 5 or 6 on the basis of an injury, "any given Sunday" moment (think Chiefs v Pittsburgh last year) occurrence, or a game turned on a blown call (Sandy Eggo vs the Donx '08). Yeah it's obvious, but I dunno how you can pin those types of things on the "system."

DeezNutz
08-08-2010, 04:40 PM
There are always injuries, so that's just part of the deal. And, has been said, the league is set up for teams to be 6-10 to 10-6. You have to be really shitty or really good to move beyond these markers.

And it's not ok for this team to remain in the "really shitty" category.

milkman
08-08-2010, 04:42 PM
11 Games against the Broncos, Raiders, Rams, Cardinals, 49ers, Seahawks, Bills, Browns, and Jags.

Anything less than 7 wins is abject failure.

I think the Raiders, 49ers, Seahawks and Jags are going to better than most seem to expect.

notorious
08-08-2010, 04:42 PM
I'm glad we are focusing on things like the port-a-potty. If that drill doesn't help, I don't know what will.

Cassel has been throwing shit for a year now, why not have him aim it at a port-a-potty to ease cleanup?

DBOSHO
08-08-2010, 04:44 PM
before the "you are what your record is" comment is made, i know good teams find ways to win close games.

we only won 4 games last year, but we shoulve beat the raiders,cowboys, browns, and prob the bills. thats 8 wins right there. and that was with horrible safety play and no charles for 2 of those. and we improved our team pretty well id say.

thats why i dont understand when ppl say we have a 6 win ceiling. i think anything less than 6-10 is a failed season. i believe if charles continues his success and cassel is remotely solid, we could win anywhere from 7- 10 wins

JMO

ChiefMojo
08-08-2010, 04:48 PM
I think to most 6 wins is considered improvement (not ceiling), 8 wins is considered doing good, and 9+ is considered very good. If we just get 6 wins this year there will be some unhappy folks, but majority will at least be pleased with the direction the franchise is still going. Once you get to that point, the following season should be .500 at worst. Just looking at the roster, if the 3-years and younger guys keep improving and we add another FA/Draft class to the mix... we should be a 10+ win team very soon (by 2011).

If Cassel doesn't perform up to ability then as a whole we don't blow up the team thankfully, but we do then restart at QB. That will likely be another 2 years unless the talent around the rookie continues to improve and is top notch. One would hope we would resemble something like the Jets... good all-around team with a quality rookie QB breaking into the league.

DaneMcCloud
08-08-2010, 04:49 PM
before the "you are what your record is" comment is made, i know good teams find ways to win close games.

we only won 4 games last year, but we shoulve beat the raiders,cowboys, browns, and prob the bills. thats 8 wins right there. and that was with horrible safety play and no charles for 2 of those. and we improved our team pretty well id say.

thats why i dont understand when ppl say we have a 6 win ceiling. i think anything less than 6-10 is a failed season. i believe if charles continues his success and cassel is remotely solid, we could win anywhere from 7- 10 wins

JMO

If the 2010 Chiefs football team played in 2009, then you might have a point.

The problem is that every team across the league has added talent and new coaches. Add to that, most of the teams in the NFL were better than the Chiefs last year and already ahead of the curve.

Eight wins would be HUGE, but I'm expecting no more than six. There are just far too many variables and not enough depth on this squad for them to win ten.

notorious
08-08-2010, 04:52 PM
Eight wins would be HUGE, but I'm expecting no more than six. There are just far too many variables and not enough depth on this squad for them to win ten.


Reality says,"This".

DBOSHO
08-08-2010, 04:57 PM
the bengals went from crap to a 10 win team in 1 season

Just Passin' By
08-08-2010, 05:05 PM
I agree completely. I don't think they'll win 8 games - I'm just saying that in year 2 of a rebuild, they should. Like you said, their best players were already here.

This has been gone over before. Your expectations are completely out of whack. On the positive side, you set yourself up for another year of bitching about Pioli/Haley.

Fritz88
08-08-2010, 05:06 PM
I don't believe this schedule is going to be as soft as most think.

Agreed.

Fritz88
08-08-2010, 05:10 PM
11 Games against the Broncos, Raiders, Rams, Cardinals, 49ers, Seahawks, Bills, Browns, and Jags.

Anything less than 7 wins is abject failure.

Browns, Cardinals, 49ers

Forget about these ones.

KCrockaholic
08-08-2010, 05:14 PM
Browns, Cardinals, 49ers

Forget about these ones.

We can easily beat the Browns, and Cardinals(maybe not easily). The 49ers will be a true test of how good we are.

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 05:16 PM
This has been gone over before. Your expectations are completely out of whack. On the positive side, you set yourself up for another year of bitching about Pioli/Haley.

Yeah, my expectations are completely out of whack. Along with several others in this thread, apparently.

Teams all over the league go from 2-4 wins to playoffs in the next year, then stay competitive for years. We're not even asking for playoffs, just an average team.

Surely the Executive of the Decade can put a competitive team together in less than 3 years, especially when they are playing in one of the worst divisions in the NFL.

There two kinds of people on each side of this debate.

People that are going to make excuses, and people that expect results.

We know where you fall.

DaneMcCloud
08-08-2010, 05:17 PM
We can easily beat the Browns, and Cardinals(maybe not easily). The 49ers will be a true test of how good we are.

Easily? How do you figure?

The Browns beat the Chiefs last year at Arrowhead and this year, they travel to Cleveland on a short week.

And the Cardinals? What, are Larry Fitzgerald, Early Doucet & Steve Breaston sitting this one out?

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 05:17 PM
We can easily beat the Browns, and Cardinals(maybe not easily). The 49ers will be a true test of how good we are.

Wow.

I'm not sure there's a team on the schedule we should beat "easily." The Rams would be the closest thing to an "easy" win, but I have no clue as to how we'll stop Steven Jackson.

There are wins to be had, no doubt. But easily?

You act like we're the only team that used the offseason to get better.

DBOSHO
08-08-2010, 05:17 PM
i think we take the opener, beat the donks twice, split the raiders, get the rams, bills, browns, maybe the hawks, and MAYBE get a darkhorse win(49ers, @SD, ect)

thats anywhere from 6-9 wins

DBOSHO
08-08-2010, 05:19 PM
Easily? How do you figure?

The Browns beat the Chiefs last year at Arrowhead and this year, they travel to Cleveland on a short week.

And the Cardinals? What, are Larry Fitzgerald, Early Doucet & Steve Breaston sitting this one out?

i have to agree with you on AZ. i dont think leinart is as bad as ppl think

DaneMcCloud
08-08-2010, 05:22 PM
You act like we're the only team that used the offseason to get better.

That's because so many people here at CP live in a vacuum.

The Chiefs are the only team they follow and each year, the Chiefs are going to go at least 8-8.

LMAO

2007, 2008 and 2009, people here thought 8-8 or better, because the front office brought in some over the hill douchelords and participated in the NFL Draft.

It's like clockwork.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-08-2010, 05:26 PM
That's because so many people here at CP live in a vacuum.

The Chiefs are the only team they follow and each year, the Chiefs are going to go at least 8-8.

LMAO

2007, 2008 and 2009, people here thought 8-8 or better, because the front office brought in some over the hill douchelords and participated in the NFL Draft.

It's like clockwork.

It's not just KC fans. Hell, I had a Ram homer tell me the Rams were playoff bound THIS season.

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 05:41 PM
It's not just KC fans. Hell, I had a Ram homer tell me the Rams were playoff bound THIS season.

There a difference between a few homers and a large portion of the fanbase.

I live in STL, and most here think that 4 wins is their ceiling.

Just Passin' By
08-08-2010, 05:44 PM
Yeah, my expectations are completely out of whack. Along with several others in this thread, apparently.

Teams all over the league go from 2-4 wins to playoffs in the next year, then stay competitive for years. We're not even asking for playoffs, just an average team.

Surely the Executive of the Decade can put a competitive team together in less than 3 years, especially when they are playing in one of the worst divisions in the NFL.

There two kinds of people on each side of this debate.

People that are going to make excuses, and people that expect results.

We know where you fall.

No... there are more than two sides to this 'debate', but that's neither here nor there.

The problem with your expectations is that you're pointing to relatively rare exceptions and acting as if they are the rule. The Chiefs were probably the least talented team in the NFL when Pioli & Co. took over, and you're now trying to claim that the Chiefs should have jumped past about half the league in 2 seasons. It's fine to hope that's the case. It's just stupid to expect it.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-08-2010, 05:48 PM
There a difference between a few homers and a large portion of the fanbase.

I live in STL, and most here think that 4 wins is their ceiling.

Oh, I'm in Rams land myself and you are right about the low expectations for the majority. It is funny talking to the guys that are basically Knowmo.

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 05:55 PM
No... there are more than two sides to this 'debate', but that's neither here nor there.

The problem with your expectations is that you're pointing to relatively rare exceptions and acting as if they are the rule. The Chiefs were probably the least talented team in the NFL when Pioli & Co. took over, and you're now trying to claim that the Chiefs should have jumped past about half the league in 2 seasons. It's fine to hope that's the case. It's just stupid to expect it.

One, the Chiefs weren't the least talented team in the league. Hell, their most talented players THIS year are Herm's leftovers.

On January 1, 2009, St. Louis, Cleveland, Detroit, Oakland and Seattle all had less talent than KC. The difference is, those organizations didn't waste the year.

Just because Pioli shit the bed in his first year and his biggest acquisition was a 7th round kicker doesn't mean that we should temper expectations.

Just because teams like Arizona took a decade of Top 10 picks before becoming revevant doesn't mean it should take the might Executive of the Decade that long.

But keep making excuses.

Just Passin' By
08-08-2010, 06:04 PM
One, the Chiefs weren't the least talented team in the league. Hell, their most talented players THIS year are Herm's leftovers.

On January 1, 2009, St. Louis, Cleveland, Detroit, Oakland and Seattle all had less talent than KC. The difference is, those organizations didn't waste the year.

Just because Pioli shit the bed in his first year and his biggest acquisition was a 7th round kicker doesn't mean that we should temper expectations.

Just because teams like Arizona took a decade of Top 10 picks before becoming revevant doesn't mean it should take the might Executive of the Decade that long.

But keep making excuses.

One could get into an argument about the Brown, the Rams and Lions with regard to the talent issue, but it would be arguable, which is what I stated.

And you should learn the difference between someone who's making excuses and someone who's trying to do his best to analyze a team objectively. I had the Chiefs at about 5 wins last season. They had 4. It's not as if I was pimping playoffs or crying "no talent = 2 wins".

You don't like Pioli. I get that. That doesn't somehow change the odds or the pathways to success for NFL teams. No matter how idiotic you are in your attempts to find reasons to bitch about the teams, you're not going to change the reality of how bad this Chiefs team was. It was a 2 win team and on the decline:

10
9
4
2

It was a team hitting bottom, not one on the rise. The fact that you like to bring up the Executive of the Decade thing in derisive fashion makes you more pathetic in your arguments. However, it doesn't change the train wreck that Pioli had to deal with upon arrival in Kansas City into something other than what it was.

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 06:14 PM
One could get into an argument about the Brown, the Rams and Lions with regard to the talent issue, but it would be arguable, which is what I stated.

And you should learn the difference between someone who's making excuses and someone who's trying to do his best to analyze a team objectively. I had the Chiefs at about 5 wins last season. They had 4. It's not as if I was pimping playoffs or crying "no talent = 2 wins".

You don't like Pioli. I get that. That doesn't somehow change the odds or the pathways to success for NFL teams. No matter how idiotic you are in your attempts to find reasons to bitch about the teams, you're not going to change the reality of how bad this Chiefs team was. It was a 2 win team and on the decline:

10
9
4
2

It was a team hitting bottom, not one on the rise. The fact that you like to bring up the Executive of the Decade thing in derisive fashion makes you more pathetic in your arguments. However, it doesn't change the train wreck that Pioli had to deal with upon arrival in Kansas City into something other than what it was.

Objectively.

ROFL.

I'm not sure how you type and suck Pioli's cock at the same time, but kudos to you for pulling it off.

Objectively.

Get.

The.

Fuck.

Out.

Deberg_1990
08-08-2010, 06:35 PM
Ill continue to say that alot of this falls on Cassel. If he can become a 25+ TD guy, then the Chiefs could win 7 to 8 games this year. Ill continue to doubt him until he proves otherwise....

Just Passin' By
08-08-2010, 06:37 PM
Objectively.

ROFL.

I'm not sure how you type and suck Pioli's cock at the same time, but kudos to you for pulling it off.

Objectively.

Get.

The.

****.

Out.

I had them at 5 wins last year, and noted that a lot of people were going to be disappointed. They won 4. What's your argument, that one game off someone kills the objectivity? Are you really that far gone?

I talked about the lack of talent from the beginning. I noted that it would take years for this team to recover. It's not as if I was leading the bandwagon and calling for playoffs year one, only to come back looking for excuses later. Again, I get that you don't like Pioli. That has obviously impacted YOUR ability to be reasonably objective. That doesn't mean that others can't strive for it, even if you don't. Way to avoid the actual point of my post, though.

As for sucking cock, given the circle jerk you're a part of, you should probably avoid using that sort of line on other people.

DaneMcCloud
08-08-2010, 06:38 PM
Ill continue to say that alot of this falls on Cassel. If he can become a 25+ TD guy, then the Chiefs could win 7 to 8 games this year. Ill continue to doubt him until he proves otherwise....

Since the defense can't stop the run, he'll need to throw 32+ TD's for the Chiefs to win eight games.

58-4ever
08-08-2010, 06:43 PM
Since the defense can't stop the run, he'll need to throw 32+ TD's for the Chiefs to win eight games.

If he throws 32+ TDs, I will come to LA to buy you dinner.

DeezNutz
08-08-2010, 06:53 PM
I had them at 5 wins last year, and noted that a lot of people were going to be disappointed. They won 4. What's your argument, that one game off someone kills the objectivity? Are you really that far gone?

I talked about the lack of talent from the beginning. I noted that it would take years for this team to recover. It's not as if I was leading the bandwagon and calling for playoffs year one, only to come back looking for excuses later. Again, I get that you don't like Pioli. That has obviously impacted YOUR ability to be reasonably objective. That doesn't mean that others can't strive for it, even if you don't. Way to avoid the actual point of my post, though.

As for sucking cock, given the circle jerk you're a part of, you should probably avoid using that sort of line on other people.

We did precious little in FA last year. So...

How would you evaluate Pioli's first draft class?

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 06:59 PM
We did precious little in FA last year. So...

How would you evaluate Pioli's first draft class?

Here comes that objectivity he's always showing.

You know, where he hasn't said a negative word about his man-crush?

Dude comes over here for no other reason than to defend his boy from warranted criticism. Everything is unicorns, rainbow and ice cream. Wait until 2012 to see progress, Chiefs fans. It's a process.

Pathetic.

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 07:02 PM
Again, I get that you don't like Pioli.

I'd like him just fine if he'd do his job to the level of expectation.

Instead, he sat on his hands for 15 months bringing scrubs that were worse than the players he was left.

There's no excuse for Ryan Succop and 6 weeks of Chris Chambers to be your best acquisitions in your first 12 months on a team with limited talent.

It's inexcusable for Matt Millen, much less your Lord and Savior.

DeezNutz
08-08-2010, 07:14 PM
Here comes that objectivity he's always showing.

You know, where he hasn't said a negative word about his man-crush?

Dude comes over here for no other reason than to defend his boy from warranted criticism. Everything is unicorns, rainbow and ice cream. Wait until 2012 to see progress, Chiefs fans. It's a process.

Pathetic.

We can't evaluate Jackson and Mafreeblockers, yet. And Cassel in round 2 is excellent value. Forget that his acquisition fucked us in several other ways, in addition to his shit play and relative upside.

Dave Lane
08-08-2010, 07:15 PM
I'm sorry, you can spin this pro-Pioli all you want, but it doesn't - and shouldn't - take 3 years to rebuild a NFL team.

One as bereft of talent as Herm left us takes more time than most. 2-14 to 10-6 is a very long climb normally.

Buehler445
08-08-2010, 07:16 PM
Let's take a step back. I think you guys forgot just how bad 2008 was. Remember Tyler Motherfucking Thigpen being the focal point of the offense? Jesus fuck. Remember scoring all those points in the first half and just knowing they would piss it away, and then cringing in pain watching them piss it away? Goddamn it. It makes me fucking nauseous just thinking about it. For fuck's sake, what an abortion.

2009 draft was a worthless fucking abortion. I'm not arguing that. But remember that we traded our only offensive weapon in TG, which may or may not have been a good move. But out the window goes most of your offensive production. So you take the worthless fucking joke of 2008 and take out our only talented player, that's a goddamn low starting point.

They had a shit ass draft that no one liked in 2009. I will not argue that now. However, IMO, 2009 was a pretty damn big improvement. 100% increase in wins. The wheels came off the defense, but they didn't blow the giant leads they had. With a better draft in 2009, it would have been better. But given the shit sandwich that Herm left, it isn't as bleak as some will portray.

IMO, it's too early to start looking at wins alone. Year over year improvement is probably more appropriate this year. OTW is right, we're not doing well on the rebuild. No argument they could have done better. But we can still get there. Very infrequently does an organization perform a perfect rebuild.

Bottom line is this: I'm not happy with all the moves, but it is still too early to burn the shit down and start over.

DeezNutz
08-08-2010, 07:18 PM
One a bereft of talent as Herm left us takes more time than most. 2-14 to 10-6 is a very long climb normally.

As bereft of talent? Bullshit.

He left us, arguably, one of the best RBs in the league, a promising LT, a #1 CB, at least a #2 WR, Dorsey, and Hali, whom everyone in the league, allegedly, has to game-plan for.

We had a few really important foundational pieces.

DeezNutz
08-08-2010, 07:19 PM
I'm not happy with all the moves, but it is still too early to burn the shit down and start over.

Has anyone advocated for this?

SNR
08-08-2010, 07:20 PM
We can't evaluate Jackson and Mafreeblockers, yet. And Cassel in round 2 is excellent value. Forget that his acquisition fucked us in several other ways, in addition to his shit play and relative upside.Yeah, but his attitude and approach to football alone is worth a first rounder. I mean, geez, before he got here, none of the guys on this Chiefs team EVER stayed after practice to do extra reps or diligently studied their playbook. And Vrabel was included in the trade, whose locker room presense makes everybody around him shit marble. Like when he attended all his offseason practices with the team.... oh... oops...

tk13
08-08-2010, 07:22 PM
Has anyone advocated for this?

Not yet. Give it until week 6.

DeezNutz
08-08-2010, 07:23 PM
Yeah, but his attitude and approach to football alone is worth a first rounder. I mean, geez, before he got here, none of the guys on this Chiefs team EVER stayed after practice to do extra reps or diligently studied their playbook. And Vrabel was included in the trade, whose locker room presense makes everybody around him shit marble. Like when he attended all his offseason practices with the team.... oh... oops...

True. And all of this hard work should ensure that Matt Thigpen is extra comfortable checking down to McCluster.

DeezNutz
08-08-2010, 07:23 PM
Not yet. Give it until week 6.

lol. Yeah, that's probably going to be true.

Buehler445
08-08-2010, 07:25 PM
Has anyone advocated for this?

I don't know. I haven't been on much in the last 3 months. I assumed by some of the conversation, that some would be.

I apologize if that is an improper assumption.

DeezNutz
08-08-2010, 07:29 PM
I don't know. I haven't been on much in the last 3 months. I assumed by some of the conversation, that some would be.

I apologize if that is an improper assumption.

Understandable.

I don't think it's reached that level, yet. The debate is what level of expectation is appropriate for this year.

Some are incorrectly saying (:D) that 5 wins could be reasonable. The correct stance is that anything below 6 wins would be atrocious, and 8 wins isn't unreasonable to expect.

milkman
08-08-2010, 08:05 PM
One could get into an argument about the Brown, the Rams and Lions with regard to the talent issue, but it would be arguable, which is what I stated.

And you should learn the difference between someone who's making excuses and someone who's trying to do his best to analyze a team objectively. I had the Chiefs at about 5 wins last season. They had 4. It's not as if I was pimping playoffs or crying "no talent = 2 wins".

You don't like Pioli. I get that. That doesn't somehow change the odds or the pathways to success for NFL teams. No matter how idiotic you are in your attempts to find reasons to bitch about the teams, you're not going to change the reality of how bad this Chiefs team was. It was a 2 win team and on the decline:

10
9
4
2

It was a team hitting bottom, not one on the rise. The fact that you like to bring up the Executive of the Decade thing in derisive fashion makes you more pathetic in your arguments. However, it doesn't change the train wreck that Pioli had to deal with upon arrival in Kansas City into something other than what it was.

The problem with your argument is that this team actually drafted talent the year before he arrived, and had he not shit on that talent by jumping right into changing the defensive scheme rather than transition into it over the course of a couple of seasons the way Billicheck did when first arriving in new England, and used the Chifs scouts to address the offense instead of pissing away picks on that transition, this team would be ahead of where it is now.

milkman
08-08-2010, 08:08 PM
One as bereft of talent as Herm left us takes more time than most. 2-14 to 10-6 is a very long climb normally.

Jamaal Charles, Brandon Flowers, Branden Albert, DBowe, Glen Dorsey and Tamba Hali.

This team had a solid foundation of talent to build from.

Marcellus
08-08-2010, 08:10 PM
Jamaal Charles, Brandon Flowers, Branden Albert, DBowe, Glen Dorsey and Tamba Hali.

This team had a solid foundation of talent to build from.

Outside of Albert the o-line had nada and the d-line LB 's leave much to be desired as well as the safety situation when Herm left.

milkman
08-08-2010, 08:12 PM
Outside of Albert the o-line had nada and the d-line LB 's leave much to be desired as well as the safety situation when Herm left.

Let me say this.

The Buffalo Bills O-Line is going to be far better than anyone expects this season.

Marcellus
08-08-2010, 08:14 PM
Let me say this.

The Buffalo Bills O-Line is going to be far better than anyone expects this season.

Pretty much all young players. It will be interesting to see. They couldn't stay healthy at all last year.

milkman
08-08-2010, 08:18 PM
Pretty much all young players. It will be interesting to see. They couldn't stay healthy at all last year.

They had five rookies starting on that line at one time last year, all guys that some of us were pimping long before the draft.

With a year to acclimate themselves to the game and each other, and everyone coming back healthy, I expect they will take a big step.

Guys that we should have looked at.

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 08:18 PM
Not yet. Give it until week 6.

That's a good point, considering they could realistically be 1-4 or 0-5 at that time.

sandynme
08-08-2010, 08:20 PM
if i hear one male voice in the shitter screaming im open...i will throw up

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 08:21 PM
The problem with your argument is that this team actually drafted talent the year before he arrived, and had he not shit on that talent by jumping right into changing the defensive scheme rather than transition into it over the course of a couple of seasons the way Billicheck did when first arriving in new England, and used the Chifs scouts to address the offense instead of pissing away picks on that transition, this team would be ahead of where it is now.

WAY ahead.

Marcellus
08-08-2010, 08:30 PM
WAY ahead.

You have to break some eggs to make an omelet.
Ahead maybe but going where? It's easy to say now what could be but the proof is in the future. What happens.
The Steelers have been contenders for years running a 3-4. There is a reason team after team is converting to a 3-4.

milkman
08-08-2010, 08:33 PM
You have to break some eggs to make an omelet.
Ahead maybe but going where? It's easy to say now what could be but the proof is in the future. What happens.
The Steelers have been contenders for years running a 3-4. There is a reason team after team is converting to a 3-4.

The issue isn't that we switched to a 34.

It's that he had to make the switch immediately when it would (probably) have been more prudent to transition over time.

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 08:35 PM
The issue isn't that we switched to a 34.

It's that he had to make the switch immediately when it would (probably) have been more prudent to transition over time.

This.

Mr. Laz
08-08-2010, 08:36 PM
I don't believe this schedule is going to be as soft as most think.
it never is

beginning of the year they say "schedule only has 2 teams with winning records last year ... blah,blah,blah"

halfway into the season the schedule looks like who's who of the playoff contenders. :doh!:

Marcellus
08-08-2010, 08:38 PM
So last year would have been wasted? We would have won 5 games? The faster you focus on where you want to be in the end the better off you are. Same reason Chan was fired last year albeit bad timing for sure.

milkman
08-08-2010, 08:41 PM
So last year would have been wasted? We would have won 5 games? The faster you focus on where you want to be in the end the better off you are. Same reason Chan was fired last year albeit bad timing for sure.

Last year was wasted.

If we had addressed the O-Line last year, and and transitioned to a 34 when we actually hired a 34 coordinator, then last year would not have been wasted.

OnTheWarpath58
08-08-2010, 08:45 PM
Last year was wasted.

If we had addressed the O-Line last year, and and transitioned to a 34 when we actually hired a 34 coordinator, then last year would not have been wasted.

Beat me to it.

Bewbies
08-08-2010, 09:02 PM
5. Just a hunch, but I think Cassel's definitely going to earn more of that big contract the Chiefs awarded him last summer just before camp. I think having Weis in his ear is going to help elevate his game quite a bit, and Kansas City's offense simply has more play-makers at its disposal with Jones, McCluster and Moeaki on hand.

I hope he earns his bonus too, if he plays like he did last year we're looking at 2013 for a QB ready to go to the playoffs.:eek:

aturnis
08-08-2010, 10:42 PM
I think the Raiders, 49ers, Seahawks and Jags are going to better than most seem to expect.

Completely agree with this statement. Seahawks could be pretty damned good after the offseason they've had.

DaneMcCloud
08-08-2010, 10:48 PM
Completely agree with this statement. Seahawks could be pretty damned good after the offseason they've had.

They'll be extremely lucky to be 8-8.

DeezNutz
08-08-2010, 11:08 PM
Completely agree with this statement. Seahawks could be pretty damned good after they fire Pete Carroll.

FYP.

DaneMcCloud
08-08-2010, 11:12 PM
FYP.

Worked for the Jets and even more so, New England

KCrockaholic
08-08-2010, 11:20 PM
The Seahawks and Jags are going to be pretty bad this year IMO. I could be wrong about Jacksonville. I mean they have a great HB in MJD. Their receivers are a bit below average. David Garrard is serviceable. But their defense scares me. I think that defense is going to look horrible, and that will hold them back. I like Jacksonville a lot. More so, I like Jack Del Rio. But I see a big let down for Jacksonville, especially after that horrid draft class.

Ralphy Boy
08-09-2010, 08:50 AM
He was only available in the third round because he was a bit injury prone as a Hawkeye


Yeah and its a "bit" hot outside.

Flachief58
08-09-2010, 09:36 AM
I agree, I think 8 wins are realistic with a possibility of stealing a game or two. Call me a homer with red glasses on but I think we have improved in areas and have a weaker schedual wich should translate into more wins.




11 Games against the Broncos, Raiders, Rams, Cardinals, 49ers, Seahawks, Bills, Browns, and Jags.

Anything less than 7 wins is abject failure.

FD
08-09-2010, 10:05 AM
Sorry if this has been brought up in this thread, but was there a similar SI training camp report from last year? I'd love to compare them.

MOhillbilly
08-09-2010, 10:09 AM
Beat that drum SI.

FD
08-09-2010, 10:17 AM
Sorry if this has been brought up in this thread, but was there a similar SI training camp report from last year? I'd love to compare them.

Found it: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/lee_jenkins/08/04/chiefs.postcard/index.html

Nothing at all like the optimism/positivity from this year's.

Red Brooklyn
08-09-2010, 10:26 AM
I see nothing wrong with being optimistic and drinking a little Kool-Aid before the season really gets going. Positive energy is a good thing. Besides... realistically... we're going to have more than enough to be upset about later on.

I'm going to choose to enjoy the optimism now. GO CHIEFS!

Just Passin' By
08-09-2010, 10:46 AM
We did precious little in FA last year. So...

How would you evaluate Pioli's first draft class?

Incomplete. It's only been one season.


Also, I reject the notion that they did "precious little" in FA. They didn't make big moves, but they made a lot of moves working at the lower end of the roster.

Just Passin' By
08-09-2010, 10:56 AM
The problem with your argument is that this team actually drafted talent the year before he arrived, and had he not shit on that talent by jumping right into changing the defensive scheme rather than transition into it over the course of a couple of seasons the way Billicheck did when first arriving in new England, and used the Chifs scouts to address the offense instead of pissing away picks on that transition, this team would be ahead of where it is now.

The defense set a record for fewest sacks in a season the year before Pioli got there, and finished 29th in the league, giving up 440 points. Last year, with all the transition, the team was still 29th and surrendered 424 points.

It's all well and good for you to opine that the team would have been better in the 4-3, but you're just guessing, and the evidence doesn't support your claim.

Carlota69
08-09-2010, 11:12 AM
Then, as another player yanks the door open, someone fires a pass at the player in the Port-a-Potty, who must react quickly and make the catch. It's supposed to sharpen a player's ability to concentrate on the ball despite the distraction of a defender blocking their view, or some kind of obstruction taking place.
But in the case of the Chiefs struggling offense, the unusual drill certainly seems rife for supplying your own punch line. I'm thinking of a couple right now. I'll bet you are too.

Yep. if you dont catch the ball, you'll be in deep shit! I like this approach..

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 11:23 AM
Incomplete. It's only been one season.


Also, I reject the notion that they did "precious little" in FA. They didn't make big moves, but they made a lot of moves working at the lower end of the roster.

LMAO

You're the epitome of a fucking idiot.

DeezNutz
08-09-2010, 11:25 AM
Incomplete. It's only been one season.


Also, I reject the notion that they did "precious little" in FA. They didn't make big moves, but they made a lot of moves working at the lower end of the roster.

The "right 59"?

OnTheWarpath58
08-09-2010, 11:26 AM
LMAO

You're the epitome of a fucking idiot.

C'mon, Dane. That's not fair. They did make a lot of moves on the back end of the roster.

Nevermind that the players they brought in were worse than the players they replaced, but they made changes at the back end nonetheless.

Just Passin' By
08-09-2010, 11:37 AM
LMAO

You're the epitome of a ****ing idiot.

Thanks for the tremendous addition to the thread, assmunch.

OnTheWarpath58
08-09-2010, 11:42 AM
The "right 59"?

LMAO

Just Passin' By
08-09-2010, 11:47 AM
The "right 59"?

When you've got no depth, even low level changes improve a team. You people act as if there have been millions of elite players who reached free agency and were just begging to play in Kansas City, when that's just not the case. And, yes, despite your derisive use of the term, having the "right" group is more important than having the most talented group.

Pioli wasn't perfect, and I'm still trying to figure out why the hell he hasn't addressed the NT spot. Haley wasn't perfect, which is to be expected out of a first year head coach. The players sure as hell weren't perfect. But it's one hell of a transition that was being implemented, and the team still managed to double its win total last season.

DeezNutz
08-09-2010, 11:53 AM
And, yes, despite your derisive use of the term, having the "right" group is more important than having the most talented group.


Only if the "right" group has a heavy dose of talent, though I realize that coaches love to wax philosophical about the Ross Gloads and Jason Kendalls of the sporting world.

Hang signs, talk in cliches, blame the media: "the process." All a bunch of bullshit. A more proven formula for success is finding a franchise QB. Guess we'll wait on that one.

notorious
08-09-2010, 11:57 AM
Hang signs, talk in cliches, blame the media: "the process." All a bunch of bullshit. A more proven formula for success is finding a franchise QB. Guess we'll wait on that one.



This x 11tybillion.

OnTheWarpath58
08-09-2010, 12:00 PM
Only if the "right" group has a heavy dose of talent, though I realize that coaches love to wax philosophical about the Ross Gloads and Jason Kendalls of the sporting world.

Hang signs, talk in cliches, blame the media: "the process." All a bunch of bullshit. A more proven formula for success is finding a franchise QB. Guess we'll wait on that one.

So, back to all those "back end" players that were brought in over Pioli's first offseason.

All those "low level" additions were instrumental in the "improvement" of the team - so much so that almost NONE of them are still on the roster.

But it's a process.

Reerun_KC
08-09-2010, 12:01 PM
I did find that last year, even though it sucked... If you take the four horseman negative approach away from the game, it can be fun to be a fan again....

At times this place can really kill you excitement for football...

DeezNutz
08-09-2010, 12:03 PM
At times this place can really kill you excitement for football...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wt_EG2EeSxo/SdKZuNIlf4I/AAAAAAAACso/WFiLLkszKJY/s320/get_the_fuck_out.jpg

DeezNutz
08-09-2010, 12:04 PM
All those "low level" additions were instrumental in the "improvement" of the team - so much so that almost NONE of them are still on the roster.


Not true. Jackson and Cassel are still here.

Just Passin' By
08-09-2010, 12:05 PM
Only if the "right" group has a heavy dose of talent,

Talent is obviously important in any professional sport. Talent isn't all that matters, though, as colossal failures like Ryan Leaf demonstrate.

though I realize that coaches love to wax philosophical about the Ross Gloads and Jason Kendalls of the sporting world.

They "wax philosophical" about such players because they are of great value to teams.

Hang signs, talk in cliches, blame the media: "the process." All a bunch of bullshit.

It's not bullshit at all.

A more proven formula for success is finding a franchise QB. Guess we'll wait on that one.

There are 2-3 franchise QBs in the NFL. Good luck finding one.

notorious
08-09-2010, 12:05 PM
Not true. Jackson and Cassel are still here.

Are they good enough to be considered low level?

onwardthruthefog
08-09-2010, 12:06 PM
I did find that last year, even though it sucked... If you take the four horseman negative approach away from the game, it can be fun to be a fan again....

At times this place can really kill you excitement for football...

agreed. i've been getting excited again about chiefs football. while a lot of moves are more than questionable, especially the 09 draft, a lot aren't. while some may think the "process" is a bunch of BS, the fact that it takes time isn't. these guys haven't even been in charge for 2 years. have some patience you whiny armchair GMs.

notorious
08-09-2010, 12:08 PM
There are 2-3 franchise QBs in the NFL. Good luck finding one.


At the very least we have to try.

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Ben Rapelisburger
Brett Favre
Phillip Rivers
Tony Romo (Borderline)
Carson Palmer (Borderline)


I am sure I left some out.

DeezNutz
08-09-2010, 12:09 PM
They "wax philosophical" about such players because they are of great value to teams.

It's not bullshit at all.


We will find no common ground for these two points.

onwardthruthefog
08-09-2010, 12:09 PM
At the very least we have to try.

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Ben Rapelisburger
Brett Favre
Phillip Rivers
Tony Romo (Borderline)
Carson Palmer (Borderline)


I am sure I left some out.

mcnabb?
flacco?

DeezNutz
08-09-2010, 12:10 PM
Rogers
Ryan

onwardthruthefog
08-09-2010, 12:11 PM
schaub
eli

Brock
08-09-2010, 12:22 PM
There are 2-3 franchise QBs in the NFL. Good luck finding one.


What a strange assertion to make.

Dylan
08-09-2010, 12:31 PM
schaub
eli

Thank you!

I think notorious needs to watch some Giants games. :D

Lzen
08-09-2010, 12:35 PM
Wow.

I'm not sure there's a team on the schedule we should beat "easily." The Rams would be the closest thing to an "easy" win, but I have no clue as to how we'll stop Steven Jackson.

There are wins to be had, no doubt. But easily?

You act like we're the only team that used the offseason to get better.

I agree with your overall point in this post, but you're forgetting something. Not all teams get better. Some of them get worse.

OnTheWarpath58
08-09-2010, 12:53 PM
I agree with your overall point in this post, but you're forgetting something. Not all teams get better. Some of them get worse.

Good point, but we won't know that until the season starts.

So to claim "easy victory" in August is a bit ridiculous.

About as ridiculous as the earlier claim that there are only 2-3 franchise QB's in the league, or that the NFL equivalent to players like Jason Kendall hold "great value."

Reerun_KC
08-09-2010, 12:56 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wt_EG2EeSxo/SdKZuNIlf4I/AAAAAAAACso/WFiLLkszKJY/s320/get_the_****_out.jpg

http://www.findagrave.com/photos250/photos/2007/147/18042227_118036574254.jpg

KCrockaholic
08-09-2010, 12:57 PM
Good point, but we won't know that until the season starts.

So to claim "easy victory" in August is a bit ridiculous.

About as ridiculous as the earlier claim that there are only 2-3 franchise QB's in the league, or that the NFL equivalent to players like Jason Kendall hold "great value."

So if Jason Kendall had an NFL equivalent, who would it be? I bet it would be a Fullback who has never scored a Touchdown, but consistently gets 3 yards a carry, yet it always stuffed short in goal line situations.

Lzen
08-09-2010, 01:00 PM
Good point, but we won't know that until the season starts.

So to claim "easy victory" in August is a bit ridiculous.

About as ridiculous as the earlier claim that there are only 2-3 franchise QB's in the league, or that the NFL equivalent to players like Jason Kendall hold "great value."

Agreed.

bobbything
08-09-2010, 01:00 PM
They "wax philosophical" about such players because they are of great value to teams.
You serious Clark?

Just Passin' By
08-09-2010, 01:01 PM
What a strange assertion to make.

Why? "Good QB" is not the same as "Franchise QB". There are 2-3 QBs in the league who can make a franchise right now: Brady and Manning, and possibly Brees.

OnTheWarpath58
08-09-2010, 01:01 PM
So if Jason Kendall had an NFL equivalent, who would it be? I bet it would be a Fullback who has never scored a Touchdown, but consistently gets 3 yards a carry, yet it always stuffed short in goal line situations.

Let's see. Mike Brown. Mike Goff. Zach Thomas. Bobby Engram. Amani Toomer. To name just a few.

Guys that had talent at one point in their careers, but are worth less than zero now.

Guys that Dayton Pioli thought were solid pickups.

Whoops. It's a process.

KCrockaholic
08-09-2010, 01:05 PM
Let's see. Mike Brown. Mike Goff. Zach Thomas. Bobby Engram. Amani Toomer. To name just a few.

Guys that had talent at one point in their careers, but are worth less than zero now.

Guys that Dayton Pioli thought were solid pickups.

Whoops. It's a process.

Pioli fudged up on each of them. Yet, this year seems like a light switched with him. I'd be willing to call Pioli 2009 a huge failure, and so far Pioli 2010 a huge success. He's made all the right moves possible in 2010.

SDChiefs
08-09-2010, 01:06 PM
Let's see. Mike Brown. Mike Goff. Zach Thomas. Bobby Engram. Amani Toomer. To name just a few.

Guys that had talent at one point in their careers, but are worth less than zero now.

Guys that Dayton Pioli thought were solid pickups.

Whoops. It's a process.

Not to fluff Pioli because I can't stand most of his moves anyways. But I don't think Pioli brought them in thinking they would be world beaters. I think he was of the opinion that "might as well give them a shot and see where it goes from there. If they pan out, great, if not, no biggie." But sticking with Mike Brown the whole year was fucking retarded.

bobbything
08-09-2010, 01:13 PM
the NFL equivalent to players like Jason Kendall hold "great value."
The NFL equivalent to Jason Kendall would probably be someone like Cris Dishman. Solid, old, and a good addition to your team if you don't mind going 7-9 every year.

OnTheWarpath58
08-09-2010, 01:14 PM
Pioli fudged up on each of them. Yet, this year seems like a light switched with him. I'd be willing to call Pioli 2009 a huge failure, and so far Pioli 2010 a huge success. He's made all the right moves possible in 2010.

It's WAY too early to judge 2010 as a success for Pioli.

He neglected to do anything about the worst front 7 in football, and there's at least a 50/50 chance that Ryan Lilja is the 2010 version of Mike Goff.

The Thomas Jones signing looks good on paper, but if the season comes and he's getting more than a third of the carries, it's a bad signing IMO. Charles needs to be getting as many carries as his body can handle. Your most talented players HAVE to be on the field.

I would agree that the potential is there for 2010 to be better for Pioli, but part of that is because 2009 was such a failure. No where to go but up.

Time will tell. I hope you're right.

notorious
08-09-2010, 01:15 PM
Thank you!

I think notorious needs to watch some Giants games. :D



When I watch the Giants play the Chiefs it's like watching a Bull Mastiff rape a Chihuahua.


Horrific to say the least.

KCrockaholic
08-09-2010, 01:25 PM
It's WAY too early to judge 2010 as a success for Pioli.

He neglected to do anything about the worst front 7 in football, and there's at least a 50/50 chance that Ryan Lilja is the 2010 version of Mike Goff.

The Thomas Jones signing looks good on paper, but if the season comes and he's getting more than a third of the carries, it's a bad signing IMO. Charles needs to be getting as many carries as his body can handle. Your most talented players HAVE to be on the field.

I would agree that the potential is there for 2010 to be better for Pioli, but part of that is because 2009 was such a failure. No where to go but up.

Time will tell. I hope you're right.

I would say the only thing that went wrong at all this off-season was the loss of Wade Smith. But I don't think he wanted to be a Chief anyways. Signing Lilja (for extremely cheap) was a good way to replace Smith. I don't think Lilja is the same run blocker as Smith, but he is a decent replacement. If Lilja does turn out like Goff, we at least have 2 good back-ups in Asamoah and Harris (if he's healthy).

Like I've said all off-season since the draft, we either stayed the same, or improved at every single position on the roster. I agree about TJ though. He needs about 10 rushes per game, maximum, and Charles to get the rest of the carries, with the exception of a McCluster wildcat or something. If TJ is splitting the carries 50/50 with Jamaal, it only takes away our home run ability, because lets face it, Jones doesn't have breakaway speed, he has power, intelligence, experience, and leadership. Jamaal or McCluster is our only possibility of taking a run to the house from 70 yards out.

DrRyan
08-09-2010, 01:42 PM
Why? "Good QB" is not the same as "Franchise QB". There are 2-3 QBs in the league who can make a franchise right now: Brady and Manning, and possibly Brees.

Guess it depends on what define "Franchise QB" as. I would call it a top flight QB that you can build your franchise around for the foreseeable future. In that light I would call more than just Brady and Manning franchise QBs.

To that end I would call Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees and Rivers definitely Franchise QBs. I would also debate Romo, Shaub, Ryan and Kolb as well and Favre is a franchise QB as long as he wants to play. He is obviously not someone for the foreseeable future though.

KCrockaholic
08-09-2010, 01:48 PM
Favre was a franchise QB. Not anymore. I think a franchise QB has to have some kind of a long future with his team. He's a great QB with the Vikings. But I wouldn't put him in the "franchise" role.

Marcellus
08-09-2010, 02:19 PM
It's WAY too early to judge 2010 as a success for Pioli.

He neglected to do anything about the worst front 7 in football, and there's at least a 50/50 chance that Ryan Lilja is the 2010 version of Mike Goff.



Where in the world do you come up with stuff like this?

Not only are you comparing 2 players who are not remotely close to being the same skill wise, you even have a % nailed down on what the odds are.

Good grief.

KCrockaholic
08-09-2010, 02:23 PM
Where in the world do you come up with stuff like this?

Not only are you comparing 2 players who are not remotely close to being the same skill wise, you even have a % nailed down on what the odds are.

Good grief.

I think there is maybe a 7.8% chance that Lilja is Mike Goff. But I have a good feeling that there's a 100% chance that Ryan Lilja turns out to be Ryan Lilja.

OnTheWarpath58
08-09-2010, 02:50 PM
Where in the world do you come up with stuff like this?

Not only are you comparing 2 players who are not remotely close to being the same skill wise, you even have a % nailed down on what the odds are.

Good grief.

Lilja is coming off of injury and is a notoriously poor run blocker.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that Lilja has just a good a chance of being a disappointment, like Goff, as he does of being successful. Thus, the "50/50" comment. Unless you're wearing your red and gold colored classes, it's not unreasonable in the least to think of Lilja's potential performance as a toss-up. Could go either way.

You'd think people would have learned their lesson last year. All you true fans thought Goff was such a great addition.

That worked out well, didn't it?

DeezNutz
08-09-2010, 03:13 PM
The NFL equivalent to Jason Kendall would probably be someone like Cris Dishman. Solid, old, and a good addition to your team if you don't mind going 7-9 every year.

Kendall is not solid. He is old, and he's a terrible addition to any professional team, including the KC T-Bones.

I'd say the NFL version is Mike "Touchdown" Brown, Haley's "favorite player." Just like Ned Yost calls Kendall the "perfect #2 hitter."

Sometimes, decision makers in professional sports can just be flat out fucking stupid.

KCrockaholic
08-09-2010, 03:21 PM
Kendall is not solid. He is old, and he's a terrible addition to any professional team, including the KC T-Bones.

I'd say the NFL version is Mike "Touchdown" Brown, Haley's "favorite player." Just like Ned Yost calls Kendall the "perfect #2 hitter."

Sometimes, decision makers in professional sports can just be flat out ****ing stupid.

Uh, I don't think Mike Brown was at all Haley's favorite player.

OnTheWarpath58
08-09-2010, 03:23 PM
Uh, I don't think Mike Brown was at all Haley's favorite player.

So why did he say to a broadcast production crew, "Mike Brown is my favorite player of all time?"

DeezNutz
08-09-2010, 03:24 PM
Tell that to Todd.

KCrockaholic
08-09-2010, 03:31 PM
So why did he say to a broadcast production crew, "Mike Brown is my favorite player of all time?"

I really don't believe that at all. If Mike Brown was his favorite player of all time, I'm pretty sure we would have kept him, not drafted Eric Berry, and still look like shit at the Safety position.

OnTheWarpath58
08-09-2010, 03:33 PM
I really don't believe that at all. If Mike Brown was his favorite player of all time, I'm pretty sure we would have kept him, not drafted Eric Berry, and still look like shit at the Safety position.

I don't want to assume here, but the above post reads like you think the production crew fabricated the quote and then aired it mid-game?

OnTheWarpath58
08-09-2010, 03:34 PM
Tell that to Todd.

I do have the quote correct, don't I?

Do you remember what game this quote aired in the middle of?

KCrockaholic
08-09-2010, 03:36 PM
I don't want to assume here, but the above post reads like you think the production crew fabricated the quote and then aired it mid-game?

Oh I believe that it was said.

But I've also said "Larry Johnson is my favorite runningback" at one time.

I just don't at all believe that Mike Brown is Todd Haley's favorite player. Not even close...Not now anyways.

DeezNutz
08-09-2010, 03:54 PM
I do have the quote correct, don't I?

Do you remember what game this quote aired in the middle of?

Yep.

Google turned up a hit on a Bears message board, but I don't remember ever seeing that line in print. Don't remember the game, though. Just remember laughing my ass off.

OnTheWarpath58
08-09-2010, 04:22 PM
Yep.

Google turned up a hit on a Bears message board, but I don't remember ever seeing that line in print. Don't remember the game, though. Just remember laughing my ass off.

IIRC, it was mentioned during a game broadcast.

Frosty
08-09-2010, 04:25 PM
Somehow, "favorite player" came to mean "best player" here. Maybe Haley just thought Brown was a great guy? :shrug: That what I took that comment to mean at the time.

Brock
08-09-2010, 04:25 PM
Why? "Good QB" is not the same as "Franchise QB". There are 2-3 QBs in the league who can make a franchise right now: Brady and Manning, and possibly Brees.

"Possibly Brees"? That pretty much says it all, but Rodgers and Roethlisberger are two more franchise QBs.

DeezNutz
08-09-2010, 04:28 PM
Somehow, "favorite player" came to mean "best player" here. Maybe Haley just thought Brown was a great guy? :shrug: That what I took that comment to mean at the time.

You could be right. It just seemed pretty ironic, considering that Touchdown was making Haley's job even more difficult than it needed to be. Yet the coach really liked him.

But, hey, the vet leadership he provided was WAY more valuable than his numerous blown assignments on the field. Way.

Frosty
08-09-2010, 04:58 PM
You could be right. It just seemed pretty ironic, considering that Touchdown was making Haley's job even more difficult than it needed to be. Yet the coach really liked him.

But, hey, the vet leadership he provided was WAY more valuable than his numerous blown assignments on the field. Way.

I would have liked to see what Morgan could do but there weren't a lot of other options at safety, either. They were converting corners by season's end. It's possible that they thought the other options would have played even worse. I don't know. The back ups are always fan favorites until they actually get in and play.

Haley thought so highly of Brown that they let him walk after the season, long before Berry and Lewis were drafted.

Just Passin' By
08-09-2010, 05:02 PM
"Possibly Brees"? That pretty much says it all, but Rodgers and Roethlisberger are two more franchise QBs.

We obviously differ on the parameters.

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 05:16 PM
Thanks for the tremendous addition to the thread, assmunch.

Just go fuck yourself.

The mere fact that you spend so much time in Chiefs forum when you're not even a fan of the Chiefs just goes to show you're a fucking loser.

Fuck off.

Just Passin' By
08-09-2010, 05:18 PM
Just go **** yourself.

The mere fact that you spend so much time in Chiefs forum when you're not even a fan of the Chiefs just goes to show you're a ****ing loser.

**** off.

I'd tell you to blow me, but you'd probably try to take me up on it.

58-4ever
08-09-2010, 05:19 PM
Just go fuck yourself.

The mere fact that you spend so much time in Chiefs forum when you're not even a fan of the Chiefs just goes to show you're a fucking loser.

Fuck off.

http://www.xtranormal.com/profile/2501955/

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-09-2010, 05:22 PM
You could be right. It just seemed pretty ironic, considering that Touchdown was making Haley's job even more difficult than it needed to be. Yet the coach really liked him.

But, hey, the vet leadership he provided was WAY more valuable than his numerous blown assignments on the field. Way.

They got rid of him, so who gives a shit what he said.

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 05:25 PM
http://www.xtranormal.com/profile/2501955/

He's too dumb to be a Draftabulator

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 05:30 PM
I'd tell you to blow me, but you'd probably try to take me up on it.

If you're trolling for a piece of ass, you need to look elsewhere

Just Passin' By
08-09-2010, 05:35 PM
If you're trolling for a piece of ass, you need to look elsewhere

And you're now lying, by claiming that I threatened you.

Dear Just Passin' By,

You have received a warning at ChiefsPlanet.

Reason:
-------
Threatened Other Member(s)

You'd better watch it or I'll ban your ass.

You really are a douchebag.

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 05:39 PM
And you're now lying, by claiming that I threatened you.



You really are a douchebag.

And you're a real fucking piece of shit.

Keep fucking insinuating that I'm gay and we'll see where it lands your stupid ass.

Got it?

Just Passin' By
08-09-2010, 05:41 PM
And you're a real ****ing piece of shit

You're a lying asshole, on top of being an idiot. Your opinion doesn't mean a damned thing. Go call in the rest of your circle jerk for support now.

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 05:43 PM
You're a lying asshole, on top of being an idiot. Your opinion doesn't mean a damned thing.

I don't give a fuck if you agree or disagree, you fucking dumbass.

But keep up the homophobic shit and we'll see where it gets you, okay?

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 05:44 PM
You're a lying asshole, on top of being an idiot. Your opinion doesn't mean a damned thing. Go call in the rest of your circle jerk for support now.

Oh, gonna edit your post?

You're a fucking troll. Always have been and always will be.

If you're going to start throwing around homophobic shit, you won't be here for long.

Just Passin' By
08-09-2010, 05:45 PM
Oh, gonna edit your post?

You're a ****ing troll. Always have been and always will be.

If you're going to start throwing around homophobic shit, you won't be here for long.

I didn't post anything homophobic. That's lie #2 on your part.

Just Passin' By
08-09-2010, 05:46 PM
Oh, gonna edit your post?

Yes. I added a sentence before anyone had replied. Are you going to pretend that was a threat, too?

bobbything
08-09-2010, 05:47 PM
http://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/172/popcorn.gif

58-4ever
08-09-2010, 05:49 PM
What a highjacking of good football talk.

OnTheWarpath58
08-09-2010, 05:50 PM
http://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/172/popcorn.gif

LMAO

As far as I'm concerned, the Patriots Troll finally did something worthwhile.

We have the old Dane back. That "kinder, gentler Dane" just didn't work for me.

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 05:56 PM
I didn't post anything homophobic. That's lie #2 on your part.

You're so fucking stupid that you don't even know what the fuck you wrote:

I'd tell you to blow me, but you'd probably try to take me up on it.

It's "Against the Terms of Service" to threaten another member physically but it's "Okay" to call someone a cocksucker, gay, fag or insinuate that someone is gay or would perform homosexual act.

I, for one, think that's fucking duplicitous bullshit, so you can just refer to your infraction as "Vigilante Justice".

Got it, motherfucker?

Just Passin' By
08-09-2010, 06:06 PM
You're so ****ing stupid that you don't even know what the **** you wrote:



It's "Against the Terms of Service" to threaten another member physically but it's "Okay" to call someone a one who sucks the penis, gay, pillowbiter or insinuate that someone is gay or would perform homosexual act.

I, for one, think that's ****ing duplicitous bullshit, so you can just refer to your infraction as "Vigilante Justice".

Got it, mother****er?

I didn't call you anything in that sentence, you moron, and if there's nothing wrong with being a homosexual, then noting that you might want to blow me wouldn't be an insult. Now go wash the sand out of your vagina.

Brock
08-09-2010, 06:06 PM
We obviously differ on the parameters.

Well, please, feel free to explain them.

Detoxing
08-09-2010, 06:06 PM
You're a lying asshole, on top of being an idiot. Your opinion doesn't mean a damned thing. Go call in the rest of your circle jerk for support now.

Did someone say Circle Jerk? Im fuckin' there man!

Dicky McElephant
08-09-2010, 06:08 PM
I got the text....but it looks like the old Dane is back. Nevermind.

Detoxing
08-09-2010, 06:09 PM
WTF? Did I miss the circle Jerk? fuck. Im always late for the fun stuff.

Chocolate Hog
08-09-2010, 06:10 PM
Wait so did the troll get a tos for asking for a bj?

Dinny Blues
08-09-2010, 06:25 PM
One of the most difficult, (and impressive), things to accomplish in this world is changing another person's mind. You can shut 'em up, but can't change 'em.

There are some here deeply entrenched in homerism, and there are some here deeply entrenched in the skeptic tank. Cussing each other out from your keyboards brings great entertainment for the rest of us, but does little to change one anothers mind.

I have alot of respect for many posters on both sides of this issue. Much of this reminds me of some old SNL skits; Doug & Wendy Whiner and whoever it was that handed out mirrors and kept repeating "just look at yourself".

I don't know who is right, I would just love to see some respect for the right to have differing opinions without unnecessary animosity.

If you are so smart, try and act like you are.

Now go ahead and cuss me out, too.

Geez.

Dinny

KCrockaholic
08-09-2010, 06:31 PM
I've been called a "one who sucks the penis" before on CP. I cried for weeks.

Reaper16
08-09-2010, 06:32 PM
I hate defending Just Passin' By, because I hate that dude, but I'd hope that Dane is sending an infraction to every single gay slur he reads on the board, ever. Otherwise that infraction he sent JPB would be even more petty.

DeezNutz
08-09-2010, 06:34 PM
I don't know who is right.

Have you figured it out yet? Do you know who is right?

https://www.danbradbury.com/topgun/images/superconference09/iceman.jpg

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 06:40 PM
I hate defending Just Passin' By, because I hate that dude, but I'd hope that Dane is sending an infraction to every single gay slur he reads on the board, ever. Otherwise that infraction he sent JPB would be even more petty.

No, I haven't but I have chewed other people's asses out for this type of behavior.

Quite honestly, I'm sick of the fucking duplicity. I know the mods are busy, blah, blah, blah.

But personally, I'm sick of all the homophobic shit around here.

Chocolate Hog
08-09-2010, 06:41 PM
No, I haven't but I have chewed other people's asses out for this type of behavior.

Quite honestly, I'm sick of the ****ing duplicity. I know the mods are busy, blah, blah, blah.

But personally, I'm sick of all the homophobic shit around here.

I didn't know you were that big of a liberal.

Reaper16
08-09-2010, 06:43 PM
No, I haven't but I have chewed other people's asses out for this type of behavior.

Quite honestly, I'm sick of the fucking duplicity. I know the mods are busy, blah, blah, blah.

But personally, I'm sick of all the homophobic shit around here.
I'd prefer it too if no one could use homophobic slurs. I think that's pretty utopian at this point; homophobia is so deeply ingrained. I'm fine with the words gay and sucks, as those have been used in a negative sense for so long that people barely think of homosexuality when using them anymore (especially for sucks).

ChiefsCountry
08-09-2010, 06:46 PM
Good I hope Dane gets that piece of shit Patriot troll out of here.
Posted via Mobile Device

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 06:55 PM
I didn't know you were that big of a liberal.

What?

Dude, I have countless gay neighbors and associates. I think it's fucking appalling when people so easily use terms like fag, gay, homo, cocksucker, etc. as an insult.

I know that very few people are openly gay in Overland Park but in Los Angeles and other big cities, there are openly gay people everywhere. And you just can't use those words without offending someone within earshot.

It has nothing to do with "liberal" and everything to do with respectful.

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 06:57 PM
I'd prefer it too if no one could use homophobic slurs. I think that's pretty utopian at this point; homophobia is so deeply ingrained. I'm fine with the words gay and sucks, as those have been used in a negative sense for so long that people barely think of homosexuality when using them anymore (especially for sucks).

Yeah, you know I agree.

But quite honestly, the point is that while it's not allowed under the TOS to tell someone you're going to kick their ass, you can call someone a homophobic name or insinuate that they're gay.

It's fucking stupid. Either ban both or ban neither.

Just Passin' By
08-09-2010, 06:57 PM
No, I haven't but I have chewed other people's asses out for this type of behavior.

Quite honestly, I'm sick of the ****ing duplicity. I know the mods are busy, blah, blah, blah.

But personally, I'm sick of all the homophobic shit around here.

1.) You called it a threat. It wasn't.

2.) Not wanting you to blow me doesn't make me a homophobe. I don't want Roseanne Barr to blow me, either.


You're a lying little bitch. Don't try pretending it's anything more than that.

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 06:58 PM
1.) You called it a threat. It wasn't.

2.) Not wanting you to blow me doesn't make me a homophobe. I don't want Roseanne Barr to blow me, either.


You're a lying little bitch. Don't try pretending it's anything more than that.

What am I lying about you fucking cunt?

I already told you why I gave your whiny, trolling ass an infraction: Vigilante justice.

Why don't you do us ALL a favor and fuck off.

Just Passin' By
08-09-2010, 07:00 PM
What am I lying about you ****ing ****?

I already told you why I gave your whiny, trolling ass an infraction: Vigilante justice.

Why don't you do us ALL a favor and **** off.

Given that I'd not violated anything, it wasn't vigilante anything. It was you being a little bitch and then making up the homophobe nonsense to cover your ass when I posted the 'infraction' and showed what an asshole you are.

Just Passin' By
08-09-2010, 07:03 PM
By the way, Mr. Infraction....

How is telling me to **** my mother in a PM supposed to be considered appropriate behavior?

Chief Chief
08-09-2010, 07:03 PM
"If we can keep this guy going in the direction he's going, we've got something,'' Haley said. "He's a football player now. In all areas. He's got a great feel for the game. He can catch the ball and he does things as a route runner that I've been trying to get receivers to do for 10 years.''


If Haley's been trying to get it done for 10 years and it ain't yet happened, what does that say about his leadership, coaching, and/or motivational skills?

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 07:07 PM
By the way, Mr. Infraction....

How is telling me to **** my mother in a PM supposed to be considered appropriate behavior?

Dipshit, that's on your public page, not private

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 07:08 PM
Given that I'd not violated anything, it wasn't vigilante anything. It was you being a little bitch and then making up the homophobe nonsense to cover your ass when I posted the 'infraction' and showed what an asshole you are.

:deevee:

Just go fuck yourself and your mother, okay?

You're an annoying fucking idiot.

Just Passin' By
08-09-2010, 07:09 PM
Dipshit, that's on your public page, not private

Yeah... big difference. The question remains. How is that supposed to be appropriate? I feel threatened. You should give yourself an infraction.

Just Passin' By
08-09-2010, 07:10 PM
:deevee:

Just go **** yourself and your mother, okay?

You're an annoying ****ing idiot.

And you're a little pussy who's been exposed as a liar.

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 07:23 PM
And you're a little pussy who's been exposed as a liar.

What did I lie about, asswipe?

Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it true, fucking troll.

dirk digler
08-09-2010, 07:34 PM
I have to admit that is pretty BS that Dane gave anyone a infraction for that. You probably should give up your supporter status. It happens to the best of us.

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 07:55 PM
I have to admit that is pretty BS that Dane gave anyone a infraction for that. You probably should give up your supporter status. It happens to the best of us.

You know what, Dirk?

I'm about ready to say fuck this place altogether and close this account.

I'm pretty tired of the fucking shitty moderation and other bullshit that happens around here.

And you can go fuck yourself, too.

Brock
08-09-2010, 07:56 PM
You know what, Dirk?

I'm about ready to say fuck this place altogether and close my account forever.

I'm pretty tired of the fucking shitty moderation and other bullshit that happens around here.

And you can go fuck yourself, too.

wait wait wait. Before you do that I read yesterday new VH in 2011. Yes or No

Chocolate Hog
08-09-2010, 07:56 PM
What?

Dude, I have countless gay neighbors and associates. I think it's ****ing appalling when people so easily use terms like pillowbiter, gay, homo, one who sucks the penis, etc. as an insult.

I know that very few people are openly gay in Overland Park but in Los Angeles and other big cities, there are openly gay people everywhere. And you just can't use those words without offending someone within earshot.

It has nothing to do with "liberal" and everything to do with respectful.

Dane if being disrespectful is worth a TOS violation then everyone on here is fucked including you and I.

dirk digler
08-09-2010, 07:59 PM
You know what, Dirk?

I'm about ready to say fuck this place altogether and close this account.

I'm pretty tired of the fucking shitty moderation and other bullshit that happens around here.

And you can go fuck yourself, too.

Quit being so dramatic. I gave up mine after I gave an infraction to vailpass for calling Frazod's wife a fat pig.

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 07:59 PM
Dane if being disrespectful is worth a TOS violation then everyone on here is fucked including you and I.

The point is that is it's "illegal" to tell someone you'll kick their fucking ass for talking shit, but it's "legal" to use every homophobic slur in the book to denigrate and insult.

It's fucking stupid.

Just like the asswipe in question.

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 08:02 PM
Quit being so dramatic. I gave up mine after I gave an infraction to vailpass for calling Frazod's wife a fat pig.

LMAO

I'm not being dramatic, I'm being serious.

You were out of line and I respect that you acted as you did.

I'm fucking sick of not being able to retaliate in the manner I feel is appropriate due to the TOS, so I gave him an infraction.

But apparently, I should have just told him I'd beat his fucking ass to a pulp instead.

It would generated a lot less controversy.

:rolleyes:

DenverDanChiefsFan
08-09-2010, 08:03 PM
The point is that is it's "illegal" to tell someone you'll kick their ****ing ass for talking shit, but it's "legal" to use every homophobic slur in the book to denigrate and insult.

It's ****ing stupid.

Just like the asswipe in question.wait - so something like this is illegal?

<TABLE class=tborder border=0 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center><TBODY id=collapseobj_usercp_reputation><TR><TD class=alt2 noWrap></TD><TD class=alt1 noWrap>DaneMcCloud (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=252) </TD><TD class=alt2 width="50%">**** you. I'll beat your stupid ****ing ass to a ****ing pulp any day of the week, Asshole</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 08:04 PM
wait - so something like this is illegal?

<table class="tborder" width="100%" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="1"><tbody id="collapseobj_usercp_reputation"><tr><td class="alt2" nowrap="nowrap">
</td><td class="alt1" nowrap="nowrap">DaneMcCloud (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=252) </td><td class="alt2" width="50%">**** you. I'll beat your stupid ****ing ass to a ****ing pulp any day of the week, Asshole</td></tr></tbody></table>

That's what I've been told.

JFC, don't you ever get any rep? How is that still on your page?

LMAO

dirk digler
08-09-2010, 08:04 PM
LMAO

I'm not being dramatic, I'm being serious.

You were out of line and I respect that you acted as you did.

I'm fucking sick of not being able to retaliate in the manner I feel is appropriate due to the TOS, so I gave him an infraction.

But apparently, I should have just told him I'd beat his fucking ass to a pulp instead.

It would generated a lot less controversy.

:rolleyes:

The reason why I gave him one was because I always thought family members were off limits. I was wrong after people pointed some examples out.

Ralphy Boy
08-09-2010, 08:06 PM
Dorsey went fifth overall in 2008, and Jackson was selected third overall in 2009, and everyone knows the Chiefs simply can't miss with picks that high.

Didn't care to read the whole thread to see if someone else already mentioned this, but... Oh yes, then can miss that high but they really can't afford to.

DenverDanChiefsFan
08-09-2010, 08:06 PM
That's what I've been told.

JFC, don't you ever get any rep? How is that still on your page?

LMAOI don't post much - and don't check my rep much. Really not concerned with it.

Just thought it was ironic with the current rant you are on.

Like I said the other day, it has been nice listening to the civil Dane (even though I don't always agree with your posts) it is still better to have thought out, reasoned responses instead of a bunch of fuck, asshole, die in a fire responses

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 08:06 PM
The reason why I gave him one was because I always thought family members were off limits. I was wrong after people pointed some examples out.

Yeah, apparently nothing is off limits except threatening to beat someone's ass, regardless of how much of an asshole they are.

I'm not claiming that I'm some kind of saint because I'm far from it. I just don't like this little "loophole" and did something about it.

I still can't believe that anyone's even making an issue out it.

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 08:08 PM
I don't post much - and don't check my rep much. Really not concerned with it.

Just thought it was ironic with the current rant you are on.

Like I said the other day, it has been nice listening to the civil Dane (even though I don't always agree with your posts) it is still better to have thought out, reasoned responses instead of a bunch of fuck, asshole, die in a fire responses

Well, die in a fire is a Hamas thing. I'm more partial to wishing AIDS upon people.

LMAO

Seriously though, for the most part, it's smack talk and not serious. But IMO, and I know I'm in the minority, the "gay" thing is over the line.

dirk digler
08-09-2010, 08:11 PM
Yeah, apparently nothing is off limits except threatening to beat someone's ass, regardless of how much of an asshole they are.

I'm not claiming that I'm some kind of saint because I'm far from it. I just don't like this little "loophole" and did something about it.

I still can't believe that anyone's even making an issue out it.

You are just lucky this didn't happen in DC you would be tarred and feathered and called every name in the book like liberal, fascist, socialist, Nazi, Hitler, Stalin etc etc

:D

Just Passin' By
08-09-2010, 08:14 PM
Yeah, apparently nothing is off limits except threatening to beat someone's ass, regardless of how much of an asshole they are.

I'm not claiming that I'm some kind of saint because I'm far from it. I just don't like this little "loophole" and did something about it.

I still can't believe that anyone's even making an issue out it.

Probably because it was an inappropriate act on your part and you followed it up with a bullshit coverup excuse.

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 08:25 PM
Probably because it was an inappropriate act on your part and you followed it up with a bullshit coverup excuse.

Just fuck off, okay?

You're the homophobic piece of shit that insinuated that I'd suck your cock if asked.

Go fuck yourself.

notorious
08-09-2010, 08:27 PM
We have the old Dane back. That "kinder, gentler Dane" just didn't work for me.



I call him "Bizarro Dane".

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 08:27 PM
I call him "Bizarro Dane".

LMAO

I didn't like him much either.

I'm back, Motherfuckers!

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2010, 08:28 PM
You are just lucky this didn't happen in DC you would be tarred and feathered and called every name in the book like liberal, fascist, socialist, Nazi, Hitler, Stalin etc etc

:D

Hell, Billay already brought up the "L" word earlier in the thread.

LMAO

notorious
08-09-2010, 08:39 PM
LMAO

I didn't like him much either.

I'm back, Mother****ers!

Welcome back.

LMAO

ChiefsCountry
08-09-2010, 08:45 PM
I wish Just Fisting Himself would just get the fuck out for good. All that piece of shit does is troll and start shit about the almighty Pioli. Fuck him and his other little piece of shit troll that stayed as well.

Ebolapox
08-09-2010, 09:51 PM
...
You're the homophobic piece of shit that insinuated that I'd suck your cock if asked.

wait, you wouldn't? why the pm offering just that? :cuss:o:-):(

OnTheWarpath58
08-09-2010, 09:52 PM
I wish Just Fisting Himself would just get the fuck out for good. All that piece of shit does is troll and start shit about the almighty Pioli. Fuck him and his other little piece of shit troll that stayed as well.

Who's the other one?

milkman
08-09-2010, 09:54 PM
The defense set a record for fewest sacks in a season the year before Pioli got there, and finished 29th in the league, giving up 440 points. Last year, with all the transition, the team was still 29th and surrendered 424 points.

It's all well and good for you to opine that the team would have been better in the 4-3, but you're just guessing, and the evidence doesn't support your claim.

I'm not opining that we would have been better in the 34.

I'm opining that the better plan would have been to focus on the needs on offense, especially on the line, and to transition to 34 over the course of two season.

milkman
08-09-2010, 09:57 PM
There are 2-3 franchise QBs in the NFL. Good luck finding one.

No worries.

We aren't even trying.

Ebolapox
08-09-2010, 10:03 PM
Who's the other one?

I'd guess he's talking about either amnorix (who is alright by me) or JD10367 (who is ALSO alright by me).

OnTheWarpath58
08-09-2010, 10:18 PM
I'd guess he's talking about either amnorix (who is alright by me) or JD10367 (who is ALSO alright by me).

I can't imagine he'd be talking about either of those guys.

Amno has no problem saying "boo" about Pioli, and JD doesn't really talk much football.

milkman
08-09-2010, 10:22 PM
Personaly, I don't think Just Piss and Cry is a troll either.

He's just a fucking idiot that can't get over his Pioli man crush.

Ebolapox
08-09-2010, 10:22 PM
I can't imagine he'd be talking about either of those guys.

Amno has no problem saying "boo" about Pioli, and JD doesn't really talk much football.

those are the only two other pats fans that post with any regularity. I know a few people have claimed annoyance at JD, but I've never seen why. dude seems alright.

ChiefsCountry
08-10-2010, 01:59 AM
Who's the other one?

Pioli Zombie

Ammorix is cool. He has been here forever, not a troll at all. JD is alright, he don't talk football a whole lot. The other two are just fucking troll shit.