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View Full Version : Legal Minorities claim that criminal background checks for employment are discriminatory


healthpellets
08-12-2010, 06:05 PM
And it seems that the EEOC agrees, depending on how those results are used in the hiring process.

WASHINGTON Companies using criminal records or bad credit reports to screen out job applicants might run afoul of anti-discrimination laws as the government steps up scrutiny of hiring policies that can hurt blacks and Hispanics.

A blanket refusal to hire workers based on criminal records or credit problems can be illegal if it has a disparate impact on racial minorities, according to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. The agency enforces the nation's employment discrimination laws.

The rest of the story. (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g9mBNs_6usTSEuZ9yff-j-evFEzgD9HHHOO81)

Of course, the trick is to somehow find out how a business is using the results of their background checks. Good luck on that.

And frankly, if it's MY business and I'M paying you, I'M pretty sure that I should be able to determine that ANY crime of DISHONESTY would disqualify you from working for ME. And I don't care what COLOR you are.

I don't have an OBLIGATION to help you overcome the stigma that's attached to a conviction.

alnorth
08-12-2010, 06:21 PM
They have a legal argument, but I dont think it stands a chance in hell of surviving in court. (that, and the argument is intuitively silly)

Basically, anything having to do with restrictions on race, or restrictions that impacts minorities more often than the population data would suggest falls under strict scrutiny. The state, company, or whoever must prove they have a very compelling reason AND there is not a reasonable alternative that does not have a disparate impact on minorities.

The problem here is that there is a very strong link between felony criminal records (especially theft) and employee misconduct and/or stealing from the job. Minority groups have criminal records more often than whites, and it isn't necessarily because of race, it is more likely due to economic background. You can force an employer to be reasonable with regards to racial equality and opportunity, but you cant force an employer to be stupid.

If I own a bank, I want my tellers to, at a bare minimum, have no criminal theft in their background. You cant constitutionally tell me that I cant check criminal backgrounds because the results might show a higher number of theft convictions by minorities than their population would otherwise indicate.

Banks and insurance companies have fought (and won) the same battle with credit scores to set rates and premiums vs how credit scores might be racially distributed.

Rain Man
08-12-2010, 06:25 PM
It's an interesting question, because supposedly one pays for their crime with jail or whatever and then is back to even. Should they continue to be punished afterward? But at the same time, it's an indication of one's character.

For me, it depends a lot on the type of crime and how long ago it was committed. A minor crime committed 10 years ago isn't an issue. 20 crimes, of which the latest was committed last month, might be an issue.

It's probably best for job seekers to not commit crimes, regardless of race.

healthpellets
08-12-2010, 06:32 PM
If I own a bank, I want my tellers to, at a bare minimum, have no criminal theft in their background. You cant constitutionally tell me that I cant check criminal backgrounds because the results might show a higher number of theft convictions by minorities than their population would otherwise indicate.



you don't even have to take it to employment at a bank.

i worked at a shoe store a few years back as the assistant store manager. in our district, there was a blanket policy to discard applications if the applicant indicated that they had been convicted of a felony.

just to test this unspoken rule, i set up an interview with a guy that had very relevant experience (managing a shoe store in texas) and listed a conviction for marijuana possession seven years prior. the interview i conducted with him went very well, and i referred his application to the store manager. after she reviewed the application, she told me to call the applicant and tell him that we filled the position, and that i was never again to set up an interview with anyone who had a conviction on their record.

so yes, discrimination against people with convictions happens. but particularly at that store location, 80% of our applicants were minorities. so was there a disparate impact on minorities? well, i suppose so. but since the majority of the applications came from minorities, does that make them the majority of the applications?

boogblaster
08-12-2010, 06:37 PM
must don't rehab .. those that do deserve a second chance ....

alnorth
08-12-2010, 06:39 PM
very interesting example. Put that way, disparate impact would have to be measured based on the applications you receive, not the population unless someone can somehow prove you actively discourage minorities from applying. (If 80% of applications are from minority groups, and out of all who get kicked out due to criminal record, 82% of them are minority, you are probably still good. 95%, then you have to justify the policy)

Mr. Flopnuts
08-12-2010, 06:40 PM
In the land of second chances we absolutely need to draw a line in the sand and say that if a certain amount of time has passed with no incidents, it's time to allow an individual to move on with their lives and have the opportunity to make a decent living. By a certain amount of time, I'm talking about a minimum of 10 years.

BWillie
08-12-2010, 06:40 PM
Racist pigs trying find out what crimes a minority committed. Racists I tell you. Makes me sick.

BWillie
08-12-2010, 06:41 PM
In the land of second chances we absolutely need to draw a line in the sand and say that if a certain amount of time has passed with no incidents, it's time to allow an individual to move on with their lives and have the opportunity to make a decent living. By a certain amount of time, I'm talking about a minimum of 10 years.

Depends on the crime and how old the person was committed, and what they have shown in their character since then. It should be up to the employer to decide.

Mr. Flopnuts
08-12-2010, 06:43 PM
Depends on the crime and how old the person was committed, and what they have shown in their character since then. It should be up to the employer to decide.

If it was all up to employers, none of us would be making more than $3 an hour.

vailpass
08-12-2010, 06:43 PM
Ridiculous. Will they make the same claims within the cleared community?
If not why not?

petegz28
08-12-2010, 07:21 PM
Having just got my contract with KCP&L, I am fresh from all the background checking processes and such. Here is the scoop on how some operate. I have worked several contracts in my career where I started work while they were waiting for the results of my drug test and background check. Not with KCP&L. I couldn't start until all was in. Then I was told a story of a guy who contracted with them and they wanted to hire him but he didn't get the job because an employer he worked for 11 years prior went out of business and they could not verify his employment. That's pretty tough. If I get the opportuinity to hire on with them I am probably fucked as most of the contracting companies I worked for prior to my 11 years with Sprint are out of business.

HonestChieffan
08-12-2010, 07:37 PM
Criminals have character issues. Maybe they need to do character checks. That way we can avoid this colossal waste of time.

healthpellets
08-12-2010, 08:02 PM
If it was all up to employers, none of us would be making more than $3 an hour.

we can debate the minimum wage and the effect it has on unemployment another day.

Garcia Bronco
08-13-2010, 08:38 AM
You don't have to hire anyone you do not want to hire provided you aren't discriminating based on race, sex, color, or disability.

chiefsnorth
08-13-2010, 09:31 AM
Undoubtedly there is disparate impact because minorities are far more likely to be felons.

But why is "not a thief" (sic) not considered a bona fide occupational qualification?

Iowanian
08-13-2010, 09:39 AM
There are reasons companies do the background checks.

If I operate a pharmacy, I'm sorry but I'm not going to be comfortable hiring someone convicted of using or selling prescription drugs. It's like putting a convicted sex offender as a playground manager of a school or daycare aid. Would you hire a money launderer or bank robber in a position at a bank?

It doesn't mean that someone who has made a mistake isn't worthy of a job, but I think you have to consider character and past choices for people who represent your company. My life long good friend got into meth and was even caught manufacturing twice....I've trusted him and he's spilled blood with me, but when he was using, I wouldn't have let him wash my car.....when he did his time, now he's clean, I'd hire him to work for me in a minute if the job description fit.

Mr. Flopnuts
08-13-2010, 10:19 AM
While I advocate people who haven't committed crimes in decades being able to get jobs, the sole exception I would make to that are child diddlers. Those fuckers should be offed on a 1 strike rule as far as I'm concerned. They're wired differently, and it's in no way a "lapse in judgment".

Garcia Bronco
08-13-2010, 10:29 AM
Banks:

When working at a bank you must be able to be bonded. Since you can't be bonded if you commit a felony you are screwed for life.

You are bound by the decisions you make.

vailpass
08-13-2010, 10:51 AM
Banks:

When working at a bank you must be able to be bonded. Since you can't be bonded if you commit a felony you are screwed for life.

You are bound by the decisions you make.

The sooner ALL people start teaching their children this the sooner personal responsibility will once again become the norm rather than the exception.

Props Garcia Bronco

The Mad Crapper
08-13-2010, 11:38 AM
You don't have to hire anyone you do not want to hire provided you aren't discriminating based on race, sex, color, or disability.

What about age? They say they don't but you know damn well they do.

Otter
08-13-2010, 11:47 AM
So if someone is Asian, white or Eskimo it's OK to do background checks on them and take into account their past when being considered for hiring but not if they're black or hispanic?

Am I reading this correctly?

vailpass
08-13-2010, 11:48 AM
So if someone is Asian, white or Eskimo it's OK to do background checks on them and take into account their past when being considered for hiring but not if they're black or hispanic?

Am I reading this correctly?

That would certainly help them overcome the already very large bias against hiring them wouldn't it?

HC_Chief
08-13-2010, 11:50 AM
So if someone is Asian, white or Eskimo it's OK to do background checks on them and take into account their past when being considered for hiring but not if they're black or hispanic?

Am I reading this correctly?

"Some animals are more equal than others."

BIG_DADDY
08-13-2010, 11:52 AM
That's a lame ass avatar dude.

Otter
08-13-2010, 11:53 AM
"Some animals are more equal than others."

I think it's time to start going down the otter family tree so I can claim to be black or hispanic. This being a white, law abiding, tax paying citizen is getting to be a drag.

The Mad Crapper
08-13-2010, 12:07 PM
I think it's time to start going down the otter family tree so I can claim to be black or hispanic. This being a white, law abiding, tax paying citizen is getting to be a drag.

I think everybody should put black or hispanic. It will be like the star belly sneetches.

ROFL

vailpass
08-13-2010, 12:10 PM
I think it's time to start going down the otter family tree so I can claim to be black or hispanic. This being a white, law abiding, tax paying citizen is getting to be a drag.

Here in Phoenix in the local pro-illegal rag they have a name for us:

pale and male.

They print it in their newspaper and nobody says a word.

Chief Faithful
08-13-2010, 12:20 PM
"Necessity is the mother of invention"

My son's expungment service is thriving. No need for government to get involved.

Otter
08-13-2010, 12:21 PM
So, just like the Epic Beard Man thread I'll ask again:

Where's the usual suspects and their cries of despair for the social injustice?

I won't hold my breath. Douche bag hypocrites.

vailpass
08-13-2010, 12:25 PM
"Necessity is the mother of invention"

My son's expungment service is thriving. No need for government to get involved.

What is an expungement business?

Oucho Cinco
08-13-2010, 12:31 PM
It's an interesting question, because supposedly one pays for their crime with jail or whatever and then is back to even. Should they continue to be punished afterward? But at the same time, it's an indication of one's character.

For me, it depends a lot on the type of crime and how long ago it was committed. A minor crime committed 10 years ago isn't an issue. 20 crimes, of which the latest was committed last month, might be an issue.

It's probably best for job seekers to not commit crimes, regardless of race.

Call me when that happens.

healthpellets
08-13-2010, 12:35 PM
What is an expungement business?

my guess would be an attorney that focuses on expungements.

Otter
08-13-2010, 12:42 PM
What is an expungement business?

Having an incident (usually a criminal one) removed from records that are accessible to the public.

That's what it is to the best of my knowledge anyway.

Also, a little bit of research just revealed that it's a crime to do a background check on a persons race. Next time I go for a job tanning booth here I come.

I'm officially hispanic! Hola Amigos!!!

No, I'm not kidding.

Mile High Mania
08-13-2010, 12:44 PM
The article was funny... the first lady they described was fired (she was a bus driver) after 7 years of employment when the company found out she had a record for fraud.

healthpellets
08-13-2010, 12:56 PM
Having an incident (usually a criminal one) removed from records that are accessible to the public.

That's what it is to the best of my knowledge anyway.

Also, a little bit of research just revealed that it's a crime to do a background check on a persons race. Next time I go for a job tanning booth here I come.

I'm officially hispanic! Hola Amigos!!!

No, I'm not kidding.

are you supposed to indicate what your racial heritage is, or what race you identify with?

alpha_omega
08-13-2010, 01:27 PM
Meh, just get a government job.

Chief Faithful
08-13-2010, 01:50 PM
What is an expungement business?
Every state has a process for most non-violent records to be expunged after a period of time. The example below is case in point, for minor possession you can have it expunged from your record from most states after just a few years. That means no more criminal record.

He charges $25 to run a background check to see if your record can be expunged. If yes, then he has a larger fee to fill out the paper work and run it through the system.

It is amazing how many people did something stupid, especially as a minor, that haunts them years later when trying to find a job. It is estimated that 70,000 people in Atlanta alone could benefit from his service.

FYI - He received $35,000 from the Stimulus bill to hire people to run his phones. They said, "come back next year and we will give you more." Money for nothing.

Oucho Cinco
08-13-2010, 01:52 PM
Meh, just get a government job.

But that's only good until the next president and you better hope the current president pardons you on his way out!

vailpass
08-13-2010, 02:06 PM
Every state has a process for most non-violent records to be expunged after a period of time. The example below is case in point, for minor possession you can have it expunged from your record from most states after just a few years. That means no more criminal record.

He charges $25 to run a background check to see if your record can be expunged. If yes, then he has a larger fee to fill out the paper work and run it through the system.

It is amazing how many people did something stupid, especially as a minor, that haunts them years later when trying to find a job. It is estimated that 70,000 people in Atlanta alone could benefit from his service.

FYI - He received $35,000 from the Stimulus bill to hire people to run his phones. They said, "come back next year and we will give you more." Money for nothing.


Interesting, thanks. Good on your kid for finding a niche. Can't blame him for taking free money either.

Otter
08-13-2010, 02:25 PM
are you supposed to indicate what your racial heritage is, or what race you identify with?

I know what race I identify with in 2010 and beyond when looking for employment as a white male under 40. And I now know it's illegal to check my race under the EOE laws.

Want to see if I'm lying or not? There's a whole lot of lawyers out there who would back me for strangling an infant over a lolli pop if they thought there was money to be made. Back door, back stabbing, half truths and vieled law abusing that were put into place to help level the playing field here comes whitey!

You ain't seen nothing yet bitch.

Mr. Flopnuts
08-13-2010, 11:27 PM
If you're so out of touch with your youth that you expect 18 year old children to act the same way as you do, with your collected wisdom at 45, hold your hands in the air please.

Hey, you're not old enough to have a beer junior, but fuck up and it'll cost you for the rest of your life.

Give me a break.

Oucho Cinco
08-14-2010, 09:00 AM
If you're so out of touch with your youth that you expect 18 year old children to act the same way as you do, with your collected wisdom at 45, hold your hands in the air please.

Hey, you're not old enough to have a beer junior, but **** up and it'll cost you for the rest of your life.

Give me a break.

How about those with a repeating record of fucking up?

healthpellets
08-14-2010, 09:06 AM
If you're so out of touch with your youth that you expect 18 year old children to act the same way as you do, with your collected wisdom at 45, hold your hands in the air please.

Hey, you're not old enough to have a beer junior, but **** up and it'll cost you for the rest of your life.

Give me a break.

an MIP doesn't concern me. be real.

The Mad Crapper
08-14-2010, 04:23 PM
Meh, just get a government job.

Exactly, if you don't have a criminal background before, you will after.

LMAO