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notorious
08-15-2010, 12:42 PM
I was surrounded by Truefans last night, and I walked away from the conversation knowing one thing:



If our fanbase is made up of a majority of Truefans, it doesn't "deserve" a winning team.



I would rather ram my head through a brick wall than to try to explain to them that stacking the O-Line won't do a damn ****ing thing except get us back to good seasons and early playoff exits.


QB, QB, QB. ****!


Sorry to rant, but at least some of you guys realize this very simple and basic fact.


/Rant

|Zach|
08-15-2010, 01:31 PM
Weird.

-King-
08-15-2010, 01:33 PM
Want a cookie?

Bugeater
08-15-2010, 01:35 PM
Here's a subject that has never been discussed here before.

LaChapelle
08-15-2010, 01:38 PM
The pearly gates will just bolt open for you
when the time comes

Bearcat
08-15-2010, 01:41 PM
It's funny how, when the OLine started to go downhill, people were so quick to blame the QB or the running game... it took forever for some fans to see the OLine wasn't what it used to be and that was causing the problems.... and now that we have a QB who is inaccurate past 10 yards regardless of how much time he gets, people are very quick to mention the line.

stlchiefs
08-15-2010, 01:46 PM
I agree, Cassel can't block worth a damn!

KCUnited
08-15-2010, 01:50 PM
Probably won't happen, but if Cassel doesn't work out, think Pioli and co. might consider trading for Chase Danielson, with his connections to Missouri and all?

LaChapelle
08-15-2010, 01:51 PM
he got ring

notorious
08-15-2010, 01:53 PM
Probably won't happen, but if Cassel doesn't work out, think Pioli and co. might consider trading for Chase Danielson, with his connections to Missouri and all?

That is their only option IMO. Anything less would be a waste.

Dave Lane
08-15-2010, 02:05 PM
QB is number 1 2 and 3 of things you need to be successful in today's NFL. That being said if there is poor or no blocking you will never know if you have a HOF QB or a turd.

notorious
08-15-2010, 02:11 PM
QB is number 1 2 and 3 of things you need to be successful in today's NFL. That being said if there is poor or no blocking you will never know if you have a HOF QB or a turd.

A serviceable line is all we need. We used to have the best line in NFL history and it got us nothing. In the 90's we had a very good offensive line and it got us nothing.


God love Truefans, but they need to realize that doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is INSANE.


Can't risk a high pick on a QB, give Cassel a good line and he will be great, we need to draft linemen in the 1st round every year. This shit is wearing me out.

Hog Farmer
08-15-2010, 02:16 PM
We don't need a line for Charles and McCluster to be successful. This thread is stuped!

|Zach|
08-15-2010, 02:58 PM
http://www.fantasytrophies.com/ft/img/pop_armchair-fantasy-football-trophy_4.jpg

Tylerthigpen!1!
08-15-2010, 02:58 PM
You think we are the only fan base with "true fans"?

Tribal Warfare
08-15-2010, 03:06 PM
We don't need a line for Charles and McCluster to be successful. This thread is stuped!

KC needs a QB that the opposition fears, then the running lanes will open up because then the defense won't set 8 men in the box if they believe that Cassel can pass deeper than 6 yards.

WV
08-15-2010, 03:12 PM
QB is number 1 2 and 3 of things you need to be successful in today's NFL. That being said if there is poor or no blocking you will never know if you have a HOF QB or a turd.

I don't think anyone needs to give you a list of teams that have won it all with an average QB or completely stunk it up with a future HOF do we? I'm not defending Cassel or downing him, but it takes more than one position to win it all and be competitive.

Baby Lee
08-15-2010, 04:11 PM
A serviceable line is all we need. We used to have the best line in NFL history and it got us nothing. In the 90's we had a very good offensive line and it got us nothing.


God love Truefans, but they need to realize that doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is INSANE.


Can't risk a high pick on a QB, give Cassel a good line and he will be great, we need to draft linemen in the 1st round every year. This shit is wearing me out.

HoF LTs bring more SBs than HoF QBs. Good QBs with extra time and a running game start to look like great QBs.

Compare the talent/results ratio for Aikman and Marino.

Oh, and cut the shit with 'either you want Peyton Manning, or you want Matt Cassel.' It's stupid.

Cassel will never be great. . . because he was never good. That's different from the prospects for a disciplined, talented, QB who doesn't happen to be a consensus 1st pick of the draft.

CoMoChief
08-15-2010, 04:15 PM
http://www.fantasytrophies.com/ft/img/pop_armchair-fantasy-football-trophy_4.jpg

LOL I wanna know where you can get this trophy.

notorious
08-15-2010, 04:42 PM
HoF LTs bring more SBs than HoF QBs. Good QBs with extra time and a running game start to look like great QBs.

Compare the talent/results ratio for Aikman and Marino.

Oh, and cut the shit with 'either you want Peyton Manning, or you want Matt Cassel.' It's stupid.

Cassel will never be great. . . because he was never good. That's different from the prospects for a disciplined, talented, QB who doesn't happen to be a consensus 1st pick of the draft.

LOL Wut?

Pawnmower
08-15-2010, 04:44 PM
In the 90's we had a very good offensive line and it got us nothing.

I seem to remember quite a few winning seasons...

notorious
08-15-2010, 04:46 PM
I seem to remember quite a few winning seasons...

Which I enjoyed.




But........


The Superbowl is all the matters.

Hog Farmer
08-15-2010, 04:47 PM
KC needs a QB that the opposition fears, then the running lanes will open up because then the defense won't set 8 men in the box if they believe that Cassel can pass deeper than 6 yards.

Be quiet ! Denver obvoiusly thinks we have a quarterback, shhhh!

Bane
08-15-2010, 04:50 PM
Be quiet ! Denver obvoiusly thinks we have a quarterback, shhhh!

We do.All we have to do is put a $200 million team around him to win.ROFL

Pawnmower
08-15-2010, 04:54 PM
Which I enjoyed.


But........

The Superbowl is all the matters.

Last time I checked you have to make the playoffs and win games before they let you play in of of those thar.

sedated
08-15-2010, 05:32 PM
A serviceable line is all we need. We used to have the best line in NFL history and it got us nothing. In the 90's we had a very good offensive line and it got us nothing.

That's all nice and good, if you are stupid. Those teams got us first round byes and home-field advantage through the playoffs. It was crappy, conservative coaching that got us ousted in the 90s, and horrid defense that F'd us in the 2000s. But lets go ahead and discount the need for a good O-Line simply because you are bitter.


we need to draft linemen in the 1st round every year.

because we did that one year in a row. One more and its called a streak.

We can stop drafting O-Linemen when 1) we have a good offensive line, and 2) when it stops becoming important in football.

alanm
08-15-2010, 05:45 PM
A serviceable line is all we need. We used to have the best line in NFL history and it got us nothing. In the 90's we had a very good offensive line and it got us nothing.


God love Truefans, but they need to realize that doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is INSANE.


Can't risk a high pick on a QB, give Cassel a good line and he will be great, we need to draft linemen in the 1st round every year. This shit is wearing me out.Stick a fork in their forehead.

Mecca
08-15-2010, 05:49 PM
HoF LTs bring more SBs than HoF QBs. Good QBs with extra time and a running game start to look like great QBs.

Compare the talent/results ratio for Aikman and Marino.

Oh, and cut the shit with 'either you want Peyton Manning, or you want Matt Cassel.' It's stupid.

Cassel will never be great. . . because he was never good. That's different from the prospects for a disciplined, talented, QB who doesn't happen to be a consensus 1st pick of the draft.

That Aikman guy is in the HOF so that's really a bad example.

notorious
08-15-2010, 06:08 PM
But lets go ahead and discount the need for a good O-Line simply because you are bitter.





Who discounted the need for a good O-Line?


Here is the problem:

If we draft linemen in the 1st round, we will become good enough to win 8-12 games every year. Playoff losses will abound, and we will be drafting at 20 or above which will cripple our chance at drafting a franchise QB.

Do we want to re-enter this nasty cycle again? Or do we grow some fucking balls and do it right.

doomy3
08-15-2010, 06:43 PM
Yes, notorious, you are clearly a better fan and so much more knowledgeable than anyone else.

milkman
08-15-2010, 06:44 PM
That's all nice and good, if you are stupid. Those teams got us first round byes and home-field advantage through the playoffs. It was crappy, conservative coaching that got us ousted in the 90s, and horrid defense that F'd us in the 2000s. But lets go ahead and discount the need for a good O-Line simply because you are bitter.

And the one time we actually had a QB in the 90s, that team actaully overcame the conservative coaching in the 90s to win a couple of playoff games.

It's obvious that you need to have more than just a QB to win, but you have have to field all time great units everywhere else to win if you don't have a QB.

I repeat myself.

Give me a franchise QB and a top 10 defense, and I'll take my chances.

notorious
08-15-2010, 07:04 PM
Yes, notorious, you are clearly a better fan and so much more knowledgeable than anyone else.

?

JD10367
08-15-2010, 08:08 PM
I don't think anyone needs to give you a list of teams that have won it all with an average QB or completely stunk it up with a future HOF do we? I'm not defending Cassel or downing him, but it takes more than one position to win it all and be competitive.

This. Also known as, "Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler say hi".

Signed, "The Guy Who Got To Watch His 18-0 Team Coached By One Of The Supposed Best Ever, QBed By One Of The Supposed Best Ever, With One Of The Supposed Best Ever At WR, Lose To ELI ****ING MANNING" :banghead:

milkman
08-15-2010, 09:16 PM
This. Also known as, "Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler say hi".

Signed, "The Guy Who Got To Watch His 18-0 Team Coached By One Of The Supposed Best Ever, QBed By One Of The Supposed Best Ever, With One Of The Supposed Best Ever At WR, Lose To ELI ****ING MANNING" :banghead:

Eli Manning was playing at a very high level for the second half of that season, and came up huge on the most crucial play in that SB.

He was contnuing to play at that high level at the start of the next season until he suffered that freak foot injury against the Chiefs.

So your team didn't lose to a mediocre QB.

Your team lost to a team with a franchise QB and a top 10 defense.

tk13
08-15-2010, 09:52 PM
I'm glad we're only going to have this argument about 150 more times this season.

Although I'd agree with milkman on the importance level of this stuff... I hate that people point to our previous offensive lines as some kind of excuse. That's kind of a cop out... Roaf and those guys weren't the reason we didn't win any playoff games. It's not their fault the rest of the team wasn't built up to par. I'd build that line again in a second if we could do it the same way, it was built through great talent evaluation. It's not like the Jets group of 1st rounders... we bought low on almost all those guys aside from Tait.

SenselessChiefsFan
08-15-2010, 10:40 PM
I didn't want Cassel for the third overall pick last year. I was okay with it for the second rounder that we gave up. I excused much of his season last year due to the fact that he was on a new team, had three offenses within 12 months, had a crappy line and a bajillion dropped passes.

Watching the preseason game, I wasn't impressed with Cassel. I was less impressed with the offensive playcalling, the blocking and Thomas Jones.

I am not giving him a pass, only saying that I think he could be decent given better blocking, and a better gameplan.

Frankly, I want the best player taken in the first round. If that is a QB, then draft the QB. I was in favor of Matt Ryan. I was not in favor of Mark Sanchez. But, even Matt Ryan looked less than crisp on Friday.


All told, the Chiefs have a lot of needs. I think franchise qb is one of them. I also think the offensive line is one of them. The reality is that the Chiefs would be a better team with a good line and Matt Cassel than they would be with a franchise QB and the same line.

ForeverChiefs58
08-15-2010, 11:22 PM
A serviceable line is all we need. We used to have the best line in NFL history and it got us nothing. In the 90's we had a very good offensive line and it got us nothing.

Yeah but we didn't lose BECAUSE of those lines, just the opposite it put us in better chance to win games, we lost because other positions that were weakness were ignored season after season. Sound familiar?

KC Tattoo
08-15-2010, 11:30 PM
Get me a franchise QB from the draft, & a LB, & a lineman. First three picks. Then start building a team with those guys in place and build from that. Can turn things around pretty quick if done right. Nothing is going to change over night, but keep building through the draft and hitting on those players can make a big differance for long term success. If you do get the guy you want then keep putting other pieces together that fit the puzzle.

ChiefsCountry
08-15-2010, 11:42 PM
Get me a franchise QB from the draft, & a LB, & a lineman. First three picks. Then start building a team with those guys in place and build from that. Can turn things around pretty quick if done right. Nothing is going to change over night, but keep building through the draft and hitting on those players can make a big differance for long term success. If you do get the guy you want then keep putting other pieces together that fit the puzzle.

Sounds like how the 2009 should have went.

KC Tattoo
08-15-2010, 11:46 PM
Sounds like how the 2009 should have went.

Or you can say the last 20+ years lol... What we need to do is build this city on Rock N Roll!!!

notorious
08-16-2010, 07:05 AM
Get me a franchise QB from the draft, & a LB, & a lineman. First three picks. Then start building a team with those guys in place and build from that. Can turn things around pretty quick if done right. Nothing is going to change over night, but keep building through the draft and hitting on those players can make a big differance for long term success. If you do get the guy you want then keep putting other pieces together that fit the puzzle.

Sounds good to me.

MOhillbilly
08-16-2010, 08:17 AM
true fan = easy money.

Dylan
08-16-2010, 08:33 AM
http://www.fantasytrophies.com/ft/img/pop_armchair-fantasy-football-trophy_4.jpg

LMAO






.... guys are too funny!

Shox
08-16-2010, 09:06 AM
Who discounted the need for a good O-Line?


Here is the problem:

If we draft linemen in the 1st round, we will become good enough to win 8-12 games every year. Playoff losses will abound, and we will be drafting at 20 or above which will cripple our chance at drafting a franchise QB.

Do we want to re-enter this nasty cycle again? Or do we grow some ****ing balls and do it right.

Summary: Picking a top 5 QB is far, far from a guarantee of getting a franchise QB. 2nd & 3rd round franchise QBs are just as easily found, especially if when you have quality players around them, especially a Oline.

The bottom line is successfull franchises draft well PERIOD. The Chiefs have not drafted well under the Carl Peterson era. Pioli got off to a poor start, but 2010 looks much, much better. It is impossible to evaluate Pioli & Company at this point. At the close of the 2011 season we know if we are on the road to being a successful NFL franchise.


Looking at 2001- 2008 drafts here are the results:
Top 15 QB franchise QBs - 4
Top 15 QB potential franchise QBs - 3
Top 15 QB busts -6

hmmmm 50-50 probabilty at best.

Bottom 17 1st round QB
Franchise QB - 0
Potential - 1
Bust - 5

DATA
Top 15 QBs:
Matt Ryan #3 2008 - good start to a franchise QB
Jamarcus Russell #1 2007 - opps
Vince Young #3 2006 - jury is still out, lots of talent
Matt Leinart #10 2006 - bust
Jay Cutler #11 2006 - see VY
Alex Smith #1 2005 - swing and a miss
Eli Manning #1 2004 - middle of the road franchise QB
Phillip Rivers #4 2004 - franchise QB
Ben Roethlisberger #11 2004 - franchise QB
Carson Palmer #1 2003 - franchise QB
Byron Leftwich #7 - nope
David Carr #1 2002 - bust
Joey Harrington #3 2002 - bust
Michael Vick #1 2001 - bust

Bottom 17:
Joe Flacco #18 2008 - good start to a franchise QB
Brady Quinn #22 2007 - nope
JP Losman #22 2004 - nope
Kyle Boller #19 2003 - nope
Rex Grossman #22 2003 - nope
Patrick Ramsey #32 2002 - nope

Post 1st rounders:
Franchise QBs - 3
Potential Qbs - 3
Busts - did not list

Second rounders:
Henne
Kolb
Aaron Rodgers BINGO
Jason Campbell
Matt Schaub (3rd round)
Drew Bress BINGO

notorious
08-16-2010, 10:27 AM
Summary: Picking a top 5 QB is far, far from a guarantee of getting a franchise QB. 2nd & 3rd round franchise QBs are just as easily found, especially if when you have quality players around them, especially a Oline.

The bottom line is successfull franchises draft well PERIOD. The Chiefs have not drafted well under the Carl Peterson era. Pioli got off to a poor start, but 2010 looks much, much better. It is impossible to evaluate Pioli & Company at this point. At the close of the 2011 season we know if we are on the road to being a successful NFL franchise.


Looking at 2001- 2008 drafts here are the results:
Top 15 QB franchise QBs - 4
Top 15 QB potential franchise QBs - 3
Top 15 QB busts -6

hmmmm 50-50 probabilty at best.

Bottom 17 1st round QB
Franchise QB - 0
Potential - 1
Bust - 5

DATA
Top 15 QBs:
Matt Ryan #3 2008 - good start to a franchise QB
Jamarcus Russell #1 2007 - opps
Vince Young #3 2006 - jury is still out, lots of talent
Matt Leinart #10 2006 - bust
Jay Cutler #11 2006 - see VY
Alex Smith #1 2005 - swing and a miss
Eli Manning #1 2004 - middle of the road franchise QB
Phillip Rivers #4 2004 - franchise QB
Ben Roethlisberger #11 2004 - franchise QB
Carson Palmer #1 2003 - franchise QB
Byron Leftwich #7 - nope
David Carr #1 2002 - bust
Joey Harrington #3 2002 - bust
Michael Vick #1 2001 - bust

Bottom 17:
Joe Flacco #18 2008 - good start to a franchise QB
Brady Quinn #22 2007 - nope
JP Losman #22 2004 - nope
Kyle Boller #19 2003 - nope
Rex Grossman #22 2003 - nope
Patrick Ramsey #32 2002 - nope

Post 1st rounders:
Franchise QBs - 3
Potential Qbs - 3
Busts - did not list

Second rounders:
Henne
Kolb
Aaron Rodgers BINGO
Jason Campbell
Matt Schaub (3rd round)
Drew Bress BINGO


50/50 chance is HORRIBLE! How about 95% chance of failure by not even trying.


When I get time I will dig up the Hamas page that pretty much explains everything.

Mr. Laz
08-16-2010, 10:29 AM
i'm sure these other fans are just as annoying by your constant QB bitching.


so it evens out

Dayze
08-16-2010, 11:02 AM
i posted this in an older thread....

since 1990, there have been 6 teams that was won a SB with a QB they did not draft:
Ravens (Dilfer), Rams (Warner), Bucs (Johnson), Saints (Brees), Niners (Young), Packers (Favre)

of those, Dilfer, Young were 1st Rd picks (Brees was 32 overall; Favre 33rd overall).

the other 14 Super Bowl winners that drafted a QB, only 2 were not 1st Round picks: Brady & Rypien.


So, of the last 20 SB winners, only 6 were not 1st Round picks. (Warner, Johnson, Brady, Rypien, Favre, Brees)

ChiefsCountry
08-16-2010, 11:03 AM
Summary: Picking a top 5 QB is far, far from a guarantee of getting a franchise QB. 2nd & 3rd round franchise QBs are just as easily found, especially if when you have quality players around them, especially a Oline.The bottom line is successfull franchises draft well PERIOD. The Chiefs have not drafted well under the Carl Peterson era. Pioli got off to a poor start, but 2010 looks much, much better. It is impossible to evaluate Pioli & Company at this point. At the close of the 2011 season we know if we are on the road to being a successful NFL franchise.Looking at 2001- 2008 drafts here are the results:Top 15 QB franchise QBs - 4Top 15 QB potential franchise QBs - 3Top 15 QB busts -6hmmmm 50-50 probabilty at best.Bottom 17 1st round QBFranchise QB - 0Potential - 1Bust - 5DATATop 15 QBs:Matt Ryan #3 2008 - good start to a franchise QBJamarcus Russell #1 2007 - oppsVince Young #3 2006 - jury is still out, lots of talentMatt Leinart #10 2006 - bustJay Cutler #11 2006 - see VYAlex Smith #1 2005 - swing and a missEli Manning #1 2004 - middle of the road franchise QBPhillip Rivers #4 2004 - franchise QBBen Roethlisberger #11 2004 - franchise QBCarson Palmer #1 2003 - franchise QBByron Leftwich #7 - nopeDavid Carr #1 2002 - bustJoey Harrington #3 2002 - bustMichael Vick #1 2001 - bustBottom 17:Joe Flacco #18 2008 - good start to a franchise QBBrady Quinn #22 2007 - nopeJP Losman #22 2004 - nopeKyle Boller #19 2003 - nopeRex Grossman #22 2003 - nopePatrick Ramsey #32 2002 - nopePost 1st rounders:Franchise QBs - 3Potential Qbs - 3Busts - did not listSecond rounders:Henne KolbAaron Rodgers BINGOJason CampbellMatt Schaub (3rd round)Drew Bress BINGO

Aaron Rodgers wasnt a second round pick neither was Jason Campbell.

Go look at Super Bowl winners, 60 percent of the Super Bowls have been won by first rounders. And half of the non first rounders have been won by Montana and Brady.
Posted via Mobile Device

Kerberos
08-16-2010, 11:19 AM
LOL I wanna know where you can get this trophy.

GoChiefs has a whole wall of them.